October 3, 2023 • 37 mins
MapableUSA.com: So you think you've heard it all regarding Opportunity Zones? Not so fast! In this podcast, securities attorney Gerry Reihsen from Reihsen & Associates not only goes over the current state of the entire QOZ Marketplace and latest legislative initiatives, but also explains the many unique usages of Opportunity Zone investing that often go overlooked by investors of all types.
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(00:22):
Well, hold on and then welcomethrough our nomibi Ushay podcast where we put
you on the map, which isRon cost are broadcasting mobile today in the
beautiful state of New New York.And today we're gonna be talking about opportunities
on some creative usages of it andmaybe some unappreciated elements. And before we
do that, let's introduce Vicky hutchfor Acuity Walking Place. Vicky, how
(00:44):
are you doing today? I amfabulous today. Ron. It's you know,
it's kind of we haven't done apodcast for a long time. We
had a lot of issues with oursite and that. So this is exciting
where it's like we're doing it forthe first time and we have one of
our favorite guests and we're going totalk about opportunity zones and the weather in
(01:04):
Vegas is like, this is whywe live in Vegas. We endure the
one hundred and twenty degrees just sowe can have this weather now because it's
perfect. But I think we canget started, absolutely absolutely so. Our
guest, Vicki is no stranger toour audience. What's up. Let's bring
on Jerry Rice and Jerry is theirsecurities attorney. He's actually a leading securities
(01:27):
attorney in the area of opportunity zonesand he's been on the show many times.
He's a whole series with him onthe last season. So Jerry,
welcome back. How are you doingtoday. I'm doing great, guys.
It's great to be back, andit's good to know that you're kind of
really kicking off things after the tiftof the troubles that you can have in
(01:48):
the cyber world. Happy to beon him. I guess maybe the first
one on after you've gotten kind ofset up again exactly is this is the
new season of Napple Bowl. Anduh, you know we have something in
common with MGM now, right,because MGM was hacked very badly, right
Vicky? And so there you go. And did you have to pay?
(02:09):
Did you have to pay twelve milliondollars or whoever? Just about yeah,
just about Jerry. And that's whyit took so long. Yeah, I
had to find a twelve million dollarschecks side I left uncashed on the kitchen
table. It's hard to find that. But anyway, but I'm really glad
(02:31):
to start these new these new newseason. It's going to be great,
just like always, and and whatbetter way to start it and bringing you
on because I know we did somany episodes of you we got everyone learned
a lot about opportunity zones, Sowhy don't we pick up where we left
off last time and kind of figureout where the state of opportunity zones is
today and maybe some of the creativeusages that people may not actually even know
(02:54):
about. Well sure, so yeah, this daily opportunity zone space is that
we still have a fabulous tax incentiprogram, with the main incentive being that
persons can use capital gains to establishbusiness and businesses and invest in assets with
(03:17):
unlimited tax free upside after a tenyear old. At the investment level,
it's a very cop and there's alsoother benefits of the Action Zone program,
one of which is that has expiredthat was a slight reduction in the capital
gains that are invested in, oneof which gets less valuable every day.
(03:39):
That is, you get to defertaxation on your capital games that you invest
until the Sumber thirty one, twentytwenty six. But that doesn't really matter
because the big big thing is unlimitedtax free upside for what you create,
the businesses you create as in theinvestments you make under the opportunity zone static.
(03:59):
So all good, it's still notIt's still I think I did one
podcast with you all saying that likesomething like more than ninety percent of CPA's
business attorneys, wealth advisers investment arecommitting might be argued me be committing financial
malpractice by not knowing about the opportunityzones statue. And that remains the case
(04:24):
for some reason, even after afterall this time. People just don't bring
it up with their clients who havecapital gains. And you know, even
if they even if the client neverwanted to invest in anything, it's a
way to deffer capital gains until twentytwenty six. So I just don't know
(04:46):
why you would think it's a trainer. But nope, Adaly Yeah. In
fact, I said, I hada conference call yesterday with some guys in
a real estate firm that regularly investedin real state projects, and they had
no idea the thing Agouston. Iwalked to the end of the time,
but by the end of the call, they said that their minds are blowing
(05:10):
because they just never knew. Andyou know, the funny thing is that
opportunities on capital is very aggressive.Capital has to get invested quickly into a
qualified opportunity funds one hundred eighty daysgenerally, and if you have something set
up to carvest that capital, you'rethe big advantage. If you're someone who
is capital raising and investing in projectsor businesses, they're want to fund get
(05:32):
more funding for your own business.So it's strange, but still not as
pervasive as it ought to be.That's crazy. Maybe we should do an
opportunity zone a convention in Vegas,Jerry, and we can educate everybody on
how good these are. What doyou think, Well, the first I
think that's fine. The first fewyears there were actual set actually several organizations
(05:57):
that did that. This with thefirst few years appears on statue include I
even had a events firm that didit. But the COVID thing put a
lot of those, including my conventionthing, out of business because you couldn't
get together. I lost a goodbit of money on some conventions conferences that
(06:18):
are had already planned. And thenand then as kind of the people who
stayed in the business, I thinkthey've kind of figured it. Well,
everybody who wants to know knows.Now there's not as many people who wanting
to know as we thought, sothey've kind of died down too, So
I don't know, it's very odd. If it's an unbelievable program, I
(06:41):
don't think we'll ever see anything likeit again. Yet people are taking advantage.
But the purpose of this call wasmostly to talk about creative things that
you can do with the Opportunities Onprogram and unappreciated elements of it. I
mean, I'm happy to talk toindivisions about the details about how it works,
but suffice it to say that ifyou ever generate capital gains, you
(07:05):
can create a vehicle to both deferbeing taxed on those capital gains and then
to make investments with those capital gainsthat have unlimited tax free upside after a
ten year old. So if anybodywants more details with that, they can
contact me, and I know you'llprovide my contact information. But I'm gonna
assume for this I'm going to assumefor this podcast that people pretty much know
(07:30):
the basics, and I'm going totalk about some some things that people don't
generally know or haven't thought about doingwith the Opportunity One program. So Jerry,
let me let me let me askyou one question first in your opinion.
What do you think the biggest advantageand best way to use opportunity zones?
(07:58):
If you know all about them,what's the best way to go about
taking the biggest advantage from them?Well, I mean, do you do
you invest in the real estate?I think every individual, besides the institutional
opportunities with opportunity zones, I thinkevery individual ought to have their own self
(08:22):
directed opportunities own funderation because it reallyacts like a rock ira on steroids,
and so why not have it todo personal investing and similar things. And
then there's some long term benefits aswell that we'll be talking about. But
(08:43):
as far as what you do withit, there are some real advantages to
I guess I'd put it this way. The most reliable methodology to take advantage
of the opportunity zone unlimited tax freeupside is to invest in arrangements that contain
(09:05):
assets that are reliably going to increasein value over a ten year to twenty
year period, because you know,you know you're going to get that benefit.
So real estate sits in there,but other things can fit in there
too, including collectibles, classic cars, firearms, artwork, maybe even investing
(09:30):
in barrels of whiskey for aging andbuying and selling it. Yes, you
mean to buy it and sell itto create the capital gains to invest in
the opportunity zone. Yeah, subjectto the ten year old but yes,
that's right, you know. Butso real estate investingly dominated this space.
But on the other hand, investingin operating businesses, including tech businesses,
(09:58):
now that's less reliable. You're goingto produce a enterprise that you know will
have capital appreciation over ten to twentyyear period. However, it's almost like
playing the lottery, right, Soif you set up your fabulous tech business
today as an opportunity's own business,well, if you happen to be Google,
(10:22):
you're gonna have billions of dollars atax free upside after a ten if
you happen to be if you happento be what was the thing before Facebook,
like Friends Store or something. Ifyou haven't be that, you're not
gonna or Netscape. Yeah, ifyou happen to be one of those,
(10:43):
after ten years, you're gonna haveno value. But it's so so the
asset type investing should give you reliable, untaxed, tax free upside, but
investing in operating businesses you know,it just depends upon how it's more like
if it's a tech type business,more like a lottery types, if it's
(11:07):
a more standard business. You know, the businesses that are reliably going to
have greater value ten years now,our businesses that are based on a cash
flow on adding recurring recurring income overtime, like since persons to property management,
and that builds in value based uponincreasing recurring revenue. I've done a
(11:31):
bunch of property management companies as opportunitieson businesses, and they know they're going
to grow, and in ten yearsthey can sell their their property management business
with much more recurring income because they'veadded more and more clients. And the
value of the business is based uponyou know, a net present value of
(11:52):
the recurring income occurring revenue. Soyou know, that is pretty much a
no brainer to put an opportunity zonevehicle. But you know, you just
have to look at each each operatingbusiness and think about whether it makes sense
to structure them as upties on business. But that's one of the things could
talk about here. Yeah, wellyou're talking about really people, you're you're
(12:13):
talking about you're talking about any kindof business with a subscription model. Then
right, I would be ideal.Any business and subscription model would be really
a good model for this if especiallyif you reliably knew you're gonna build those
subscriptions and after ten years you wouldwant to be selling out right right exactly,
you know right now with on TV, Now we're all these apps for
(12:35):
their Netflix, You're food, butall this other stuff that's going on there,
and you have to subscribe to eachone of them individually. You realize
how much money that you're spending eachmonth just on each of these different programs,
and I think to myself, bollyouse, guys must be making a
ton of money when many times,however, many people are subscribed. Yeah,
right, anyway, So just toget going on it, first,
(13:01):
I wanted to talk about unanticipated orunderappreciated areas where you can get that first
step, that is investing into acallupit opportunity fund or a QOF under the
Opportunity Zone program. So, asI mentioned, you need to have generally
capital gains or Section twelve thirty onegames or Section twelve fifty depreciation, anything
(13:26):
that kind of feeds into your scheduleD on your tax form to be able
to invest that into an opportunity zonefund what's called a QOF, and you
generally have to do that within onehundred and eighty days. But most people
know who are in the space,but many people who are not in the
space don't know. Most don't knowis that you the one hundred and eighty
(13:48):
d eighty period is not limited tocertain types of things. If you generate
your capital gain through a partnership,then in addition to your one hundred eighty
days, you can invest in aKOF from the period of December thirty first
of the year when the gain isrecognized through September tenth of the following year.
(14:13):
So whenever I get a client inand they're talking about capital gains,
I actually asked them what capital gainsdo they generated since the beginning of the
prior year and if any of themcame from partnership. So that's that's one
thing that is kind of underappreciated.Another thing that is really underappreciated and even
in the space, that even evenin respective people in the space, is
(14:39):
that when it comes to ten thirtyone investing, which is like kind investing
in real estate. So if yousell an investment property and you set it
up as a ten thirty one deal, you give your money to a qualify
inter media, you don't take possessionof your money, and you have one
hundred and eighty days to find anew property to invest in, and when
(15:01):
that happens, you move your basisover to the new property and you defer
your tax and you have a newinvestment. Well, interestingly, you have
one hundred eight days just like youhave one hundred eight days, and the
cheesis best you. So most peoplehave just kind of assumed that those two
periods run concurrently. But the realityis that, let's say you don't get
(15:24):
anything invested in one hundred and eightydays, so the qualified intermediary returns your
money, or maybe you got investedin something but not all of it,
and the qualified intermediary can't return yourmoney until that hundred eight eighty period,
so you can't. It's hard tomake opporunity own investment. You could use
other cash, but you could.It's hard to make it our keyes own
investment while your money is tied upwith a q I qualified in your mediary.
(15:48):
And most people think, well,now I've lost one hundred eight eight
period opportuitie investment. But here's thepeople who know a taxpayer can choose the
date of recognition for a ten thirtyone sale to be either the date of
(16:10):
the sale or the date when thequalified intermediary returns all or part of the
original sale proceeds. It's basically youelect installment sale. So now if you
file your tax return correctly, youhave another one hundred and eighty days to
(16:30):
take the capital gains that will havebeen taxed because you didn't complete your full
or any of your ten thirty onesale to look at investing in the opportunity
zone structures. Now you have tofile your tax turns correctly and make sure
your file. I think it's aForm sixty two fifty two along with the
(16:55):
regular Form eighty twenty four four tenthirty one on deals. But that's how
you can do that. Now youhave a way to save yourself and to
defer and to get the best flitsthe opportunity on statues. So that's kind
of one of the underappreciated even bypeople in the industry. Devices you can
(17:17):
use. That's the point. I'vebeen dealing with some TEMP thirty one guys
for a long time, Jerry,and that's the first time anyone's ever mentioned
that to me, that's really interesting. That's an excellent thing. Yeah.
Now, even even if you weren'tgoing to do an opportunity zone deal,
this actually gives you away if you'reselling your property in the last half of
(17:40):
a year to defer your tax eventfrom year one to year two. Right,
Most people don't even realized this.Yeah. So now the other thing
people are people don't always realize howbroadly you can generate capital gains. I'll
(18:02):
give you an example. I wasjust dealing with a rancher up in Oklahoma
and for certain sales of their cattle, those cattle are sold as capital gains.
People don't realize that. I wasdealing with a guy who has a
(18:22):
business where they generate assets over time, and they sit on those assets for
a while and then sell them andthen they get Section twelve thirty one treatment,
which is similar to capital games andused and can be used in opportunities
on investing. They generate Section twelvethirty one games every year, and now
(18:44):
that guy has set up his ownself directed opportunities on fund to put those
moneys in there and make opportunity oninvestors. And one really interesting thing I
just got involved in a carbon creditssale, and depending upon how they're created,
carbon credits can be a capital assetthat generates capital gains when you sell
(19:07):
them to geez. You know,that goes through the question of getting into
the program and generating the kind ofcapital that qualifies to be used in the
program. So really interesting things thatyou see as you continue to matriculate through
this space. Do you think thatwhat it's been about maybe what seven eight
(19:30):
years since opportunity jones, since theJob Acts created the opportunity zones? Have
they refined the process? Have theylike learned from what they didn't do and
now they made it better? Anddo you think that the reason that so
(19:51):
many people don't know about opportunity zonesis because they think they're either too complicated
or there's too much involvement with formsand government intervention and all that that they
don't want to be bothered. Sothey're losing out on a great opportunity.
(20:11):
Yeah, So I think there aretwo questions there. Has things been refined?
The short answer to have things beenrefined is no, As far as
as far as the irs or caselarge, there's been no material amounts.
There's been a little bit. Forinstance, there's one of the things we're
(20:33):
gonna talk about is opportunities own rollups, and so there has been a
private letter ruling from the IRS onhow you merge qualified opportunity funds and qualified
oportunity z own businesses together, andthat's going to be very useful for folks
who want to do roll ups.Roll ups being you aggregate a bunch of
businesses at private company multiples and thenyou look to sell at higher multiples,
(20:56):
either publicly or to a larger investor. So that's one area that's been a
little bit, but frankly, therejust hasn't been a whole lot. I
mean, some as people practice init, like me and the and the
tax people who practice in it,you know, they've kind of they've kind
of informally with the IRS clarify somethings, but really marginal kind of clarification
(21:19):
of things and that and I kindof suspect there won't be a lot of
clarification because the program, I mean, the investment in the program ends in
twenty twenty seven in respect of capitalgains generated through twenty twenty six. Thereafter,
you can still operate these and Ithink they will operate and you can
(21:41):
increase your portfolio and grow your structures. But you know, it's a relatively
short life program and I don't thinkpeople are going to get around to creating
case laws and stuff like that fora while, So not a lot of
refinements yet. And as far asyour second question about why people and got
into it, yeah, people have. I can tell you from talking to
(22:03):
folks who call me and and thenthey say, Wow, I didn't get
into it because this isn't this Theythink it's all investing in slums and it's
not there. I mean, it'sinvesting in lower income communities, but a
lot of these are already gentrifying,or the demographics in the community as far
(22:26):
as personal income is low. Butthe but the commercial infrastructure is beautiful,
and you could do you know,I've got where's one opportunity zone in the
Dallas area in Plane, Oh,believe it or not, one of the
wealthier suburbs of Dallas, where righton the main highway it's called Central Expressway,
(22:47):
and the name stands for what itis. It's kind of central to
everything right on the highway. Andit just happens that along that highway.
For the last seven years has beena very large trailer park, but not
much other habitation. And meanwhile,all around it has grown up, you
know, great assets. The costgoes the shopping centers and things like that.
(23:11):
But the demographic is low income.So there's a lot of people think,
hey, I want to have todo any opportunities and because you know
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'mgonna have to invest in bad places.
Well, number one, there's agood opportunity wherever you go, right,
even when a place gets depressed,you're going in at a lower basis,
(23:32):
so you should be able to makesomebody self. I mean, the whole
purpose is to get people who generatecapital gains and wealth to invest in underinvested
communities. And that doesn't mean you'regonna invest in a lost cause at all.
Other people, Hey, I haven'tread no I I just said,
why would you invest in a badplace? Well, like I said,
(23:57):
uh, you know, you gottamake every investment decision independently, right,
But if you invest in a diceyarea, well, no doubt you're getting
into the You're getting in at avery low cost, right, and if
you can manage the diciness and bringvalue it might might make sense now nowadays
where they don't police petty thefts anymore, maybe it doesn't make any sense because
(24:22):
you can't protect yourself. I mean, I don't know if i'd put they
complain about food deserts and low incomecommunities and then they let people rob the
food any story you put their mind, So I don't know, I mean,
but you gotta make each decision about, you know, with what you
do. I mean, so forinstance, in very low there's an area
in Dallas that is very low incomeand problematic, but it has a VA
(24:45):
hospital in it. Well, we'vedone opportunities on investments in clinics and hospitals
around that, right, and they'resecure everything else that is, and you're
in there very low cost, youhave a big upside. So oh number
one, that's well no, Iwas just going to say, here,
(25:07):
it's not that you there's opportunity zoneareas everywhere. I mean, even rural
you can invest in a farm.But here in Vegas, we have a
new arts district, right are youthere? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
(25:29):
yeah, Vegas, Vegas, LasVegas. Well yeah, and and they're
all over and and my point isthere you just have to look for them
because they're all over. I mean, who would think that you could build
a casino on the Las Vegas Stripin an opportunity zone when you're thinking that
(25:52):
you have to invest in depressed areas, that's not depressed area. Yeah.
Well, interestingly, interestingly, thereis a limitation on doing uh casinos as
opportunities on investments. But we actuallyhave been able to do that because there's
a workaround for that. Right.Yeah. The other thing, that's the
(26:18):
other that's another under appreciated element,right the casinos. Yeah, yeah,
that it is. Actually, Yeah, at certain in certain ways of investing,
you're not in a lot of investingin gambling or golf courses or bars
or things. You well you mightyou can't. So anyway, there's there's
(26:44):
legal you mean, you could openthere's legal businesses that there are limitations on
investing. Their colloquials are called sinbusinesses. But we can structure so that
you can invest in them. Andthen there are illegal businesses not brothel's legal.
There's no there's actually no limitation thatI know of at any stage of
investing in illegal brothel. Now,I don't know that I really want to
(27:08):
be involved in helping somebody do thatbut in any event, but basically entries
Canada's dispensaries or where marijuana is legal. I mean, that would generate a
ton of money in an opportunity zonebusiness. So there's a lot of people
(27:30):
doing that. But marijuana sales areillegal everywhere because under federal law, they're
illegal everywhere. Now they may belegal under state law. So there's an
open question as to whether that wouldbe something that the federal government, under
(27:51):
the federal tax code would think youare allowed to invest in on the opportunity
zone statute. There's arguments, buthe's tried it, so oh yeah,
a lot of people are doing itactually, and they're taking the risks that
that the i R s will sayit's okay. But investing in illegal businesses,
(28:17):
it's it's open questions whether you cando that under the opportunities Maybe if
you're a politician, well yeah,if you're especially if you're a politician who
has got lots of cover from themedia, and we'll try to find every
way possible to justify anything you do. And that seems to happen to bullsize.
(28:38):
The equation never happened, so soso listen to another one. Go
on I'm gonna just said we needto the closest side will say another another
to getting back to victis are intoa question or or the second half for
(29:00):
another thing I hear is that,hey, I don't want to tie up
my cash from making these sales ofcapital assets or sale of my business in
an opportunity z own vehicle. Well, the reality is, you don't type
your cash. If you set upyour own self directed opportunities on vehicle with
your cash from the sale of abusiness or sale of assets, it's still
your cash. You can still dothings with it. In fact, until
(29:25):
you actually do invest in opportunities owninvestments, actual underlying opportunity of vestments,
you can get access to cash anduse it forever whatever you like. You
have to structure correctly to do that, and you have and eventually you do
have to get in the appropriately qualifiedassets. But you know, that's in
the argument I've heard by people whoare ignorant of the structure many times.
(29:48):
So then since they think that's theway it is, they never look at
it or suggest it to their clients. So, I mean, there's the
numerable objections that people have, allof which are very uninformed. Other than
this. I would never have anybodydo opportunities on investing without engaging somebody like
(30:08):
me or CPA who's been involved init from day one, because while absolutely
while it's a simple thing to expresson a fifty thousand foot level, there
is some guidance that you need toset up correctly and stay compliant, and
it's not that expensive to steph compliants. I do it for fixed fees for
(30:32):
a lot of folks, which arevery reasonable, partly just because I'm a
zealot for the program and I wantas many people possibly to get the opportunity
in it. But anyway, so, was there some questions you guys are
holding. Oh well, I havea couple of comments. Actually, one
of them is I was going toask the question which you just answered in
that I think it's really important thatyou go with a professional like yourself when
those how to do it. Plus, I would imagine when people talk to
(30:53):
you and they say I want todo this, I want to that you
are experiencing nothing in the industry tomaybe give them some creative ideas and maybe
point them in a direction that theydidn't even know that they were supposed to
go to. Right, did yousee that right, and sometimes we can
fix things that they've set up incorrectlyor it didn't set up at all if
they get to us quick enough,right, right. And my second comment
(31:17):
was at the start of the podcastwe talked about deadlines and things like that
and how we kind of, youknow, we missed the deference a little
bit here and there. But ifsomeone were just so let's say, just
be dropped on the planet Earth todayand said they wanted to do an opportunity
zone fund and an opportunity zone investmentfor you know, they would get the
same kind of benefit today that theywould have let's say if they started four
(31:37):
years ago in terms of buying acompany or running a company and getting that
that capital gains advantage. Is thatright? Yes, Any anything that you
set up through the final days todo so in twenty twenty seven, you're
going to get that tax free upsideif you hold for that matter. Yeah,
(31:57):
that's the biggest part of the wholeprogram. That's what makes it so
attractive to a lot of guys.And I think that that people kind of
missed that. Sometimes when you hearpeople say, oh, I missed the
boat on opportunity zones, or youreally didn't. No, you haven't missed
it at all. Too many peopleare focused on the deferral part with the
capital games. The big thing isthe tax upside. That's why I liken
it to a roth Ira on steroids, because it basically that the although you
(32:22):
have to have capital games to investin, and all those those games will
be taxed. It's like investing aftertax dollars to get taxed three dollars out
right. So yeah, missing theboat is part of the argument that here
too, but that's only because theydon't understand that they haven't missed the boat.
Yeah. Yeah. And the thirdthing I was going to mention was
(32:44):
when people talk about opportunity zones,they always talk about it as a top
level thing, you know, okay, investing unders under served communities. And
what I really like about this podcastis that you're presenting the case that there's
so many other options and there's somany other creative usages of that people may
not even have thought of. Andyou know, I said before, I
deal with a lot of new estateguys who don't even understand it today,
(33:07):
and if you gave them this information, they'd be you know, deering the
headlights type of thing. So,yeah, when I talk, people are
uneducated about it. But they maystart skeptical, they may start open either
way. But by the time they'redone, I'm done with them, they're
totally conced. Yeah, exactly,And you care to convince them that much?
(33:28):
I just care to give them thefacts and the reality, you know
what I mean. I don't careget the funniest stuff to do. See
a lot of times these these peoplewho are uneducated about the program are the
same people who don't understand it thatare are educated on the program. They
still need to know this stuff.So I sure this has really good a
(33:49):
good informative podcast. So Jerry,I mean people have to get a hold
of you. Now, how dothey do that? What's what's going on
with that? Your email or phoneor what's the best way to contact you?
Yeah, no, I'm pretty prettyavailable. I mean, the probably
the easiest thing is that email me. I mean, I think you're gonna
put this in the notes to thepodcast, but g Rison g R E
I H S E N at SwordShield Law dot com sw R D s
(34:15):
H I E L D Law dotcom or I think just call me two
one four nine zero eight two zerozero nine. Well, I think people
should definitely call you for sure ona topic like this. Victy, what
do you think about this? Doyou think that we educated some people in
the audience to say, listening toour podcast, I think we did run
(34:35):
And I think that people who hadan idea of opportunity zones now can understand.
You know, remember when they firstcame out run and we thought opportunity
zones were so hot. We wereso excited about them. And it boggles
my mind that after all of theseyears, there's still a hot investment opportunity,
(35:00):
but people don't know about them forwhatever reason. And I would think
that if you're a person who's inthe position that generates capital gains on a
regular basis, that you should finda financial advisor and a state planning attorney
(35:20):
that can help you to create afund to cause people like Jerry Risen to
help you to set it up toyour advantage and take advantage of the opportunity
zone program. Because it was hotthen, it's hot now, and it's
gonna be hot tomorrow, So geton the wagon. Call Jerry because he's
(35:45):
an expert. He's an absolute expertin the country. Call him, get
ideas set it up, make money, be happy. Jerry, you're the
man as you're the best scary.We love having you on as a guest.
(36:07):
We absolutely do. Jerry, wouldyou like to have Vicky Vicky a
company to all these trade shows andgive you that kind of introduction? Yes,
you can, you can be talented, I wonder, I am,
Yeah, you can make up?Yeah, all right, Rose sends a
(36:28):
lot to being a guest. Appreciated, Vicky. Thanks for co hosting the
show. Folks, you're listening tothe maffable USA podcast at maffable USA dot
com. If you go to thatwebsite, you scroll down, you see
all our syndication sources. Pick theone you like best and subscribe and you'll
never miss another one of our episodes. If you want to be a guest
on the show like Jerry was today, just go out the guest tab.
(36:49):
We'll see what you can do aboutgetting you on the show. How did
you like what you heard today?Send us in an email at info at
mathable USA dot com, or justleave a comment on whatever said you're listening
to right now so say her supportthanks too. If you would be at
the next time her not before yourthinking. I guess every bad day, everyone
Well, hold on and then welcomethrough our nomibi Ushay podcast where we put
you on the map, which isRon cost are broadcasting mobile today in the
beautiful state of New New York.And today we're gonna be talking about opportunities
on some creative usages of it andmaybe some unappreciated elements. And before we
do that, let's introduce Vicky hutchfor Acuity Walking Place. Vicky, how
(00:44):
are you doing today? I amfabulous today. Ron. It's you know,
it's kind of we haven't done apodcast for a long time. We
had a lot of issues with oursite and that. So this is exciting
where it's like we're doing it forthe first time and we have one of
our favorite guests and we're going totalk about opportunity zones and the weather in
(01:04):
Vegas is like, this is whywe live in Vegas. We endure the
one hundred and twenty degrees just sowe can have this weather now because it's
perfect. But I think we canget started, absolutely absolutely so. Our
guest, Vicki is no stranger toour audience. What's up. Let's bring
on Jerry Rice and Jerry is theirsecurities attorney. He's actually a leading securities
(01:27):
attorney in the area of opportunity zonesand he's been on the show many times.
He's a whole series with him onthe last season. So Jerry,
welcome back. How are you doingtoday. I'm doing great, guys.
It's great to be back, andit's good to know that you're kind of
really kicking off things after the tiftof the troubles that you can have in
(01:48):
the cyber world. Happy to beon him. I guess maybe the first
one on after you've gotten kind ofset up again exactly is this is the
new season of Napple Bowl. Anduh, you know we have something in
common with MGM now, right,because MGM was hacked very badly, right
Vicky? And so there you go. And did you have to pay?
(02:09):
Did you have to pay twelve milliondollars or whoever? Just about yeah,
just about Jerry. And that's whyit took so long. Yeah, I
had to find a twelve million dollarschecks side I left uncashed on the kitchen
table. It's hard to find that. But anyway, but I'm really glad
(02:31):
to start these new these new newseason. It's going to be great,
just like always, and and whatbetter way to start it and bringing you
on because I know we did somany episodes of you we got everyone learned
a lot about opportunity zones, Sowhy don't we pick up where we left
off last time and kind of figureout where the state of opportunity zones is
today and maybe some of the creativeusages that people may not actually even know
(02:54):
about. Well sure, so yeah, this daily opportunity zone space is that
we still have a fabulous tax incentiprogram, with the main incentive being that
persons can use capital gains to establishbusiness and businesses and invest in assets with
(03:17):
unlimited tax free upside after a tenyear old. At the investment level,
it's a very cop and there's alsoother benefits of the Action Zone program,
one of which is that has expiredthat was a slight reduction in the capital
gains that are invested in, oneof which gets less valuable every day.
(03:39):
That is, you get to defertaxation on your capital games that you invest
until the Sumber thirty one, twentytwenty six. But that doesn't really matter
because the big big thing is unlimitedtax free upside for what you create,
the businesses you create as in theinvestments you make under the opportunity zone static.
(03:59):
So all good, it's still notIt's still I think I did one
podcast with you all saying that likesomething like more than ninety percent of CPA's
business attorneys, wealth advisers investment arecommitting might be argued me be committing financial
malpractice by not knowing about the opportunityzones statue. And that remains the case
(04:24):
for some reason, even after afterall this time. People just don't bring
it up with their clients who havecapital gains. And you know, even
if they even if the client neverwanted to invest in anything, it's a
way to deffer capital gains until twentytwenty six. So I just don't know
(04:46):
why you would think it's a trainer. But nope, Adaly Yeah. In
fact, I said, I hada conference call yesterday with some guys in
a real estate firm that regularly investedin real state projects, and they had
no idea the thing Agouston. Iwalked to the end of the time,
but by the end of the call, they said that their minds are blowing
(05:10):
because they just never knew. Andyou know, the funny thing is that
opportunities on capital is very aggressive.Capital has to get invested quickly into a
qualified opportunity funds one hundred eighty daysgenerally, and if you have something set
up to carvest that capital, you'rethe big advantage. If you're someone who
is capital raising and investing in projectsor businesses, they're want to fund get
(05:32):
more funding for your own business.So it's strange, but still not as
pervasive as it ought to be.That's crazy. Maybe we should do an
opportunity zone a convention in Vegas,Jerry, and we can educate everybody on
how good these are. What doyou think, Well, the first I
think that's fine. The first fewyears there were actual set actually several organizations
(05:57):
that did that. This with thefirst few years appears on statue include I
even had a events firm that didit. But the COVID thing put a
lot of those, including my conventionthing, out of business because you couldn't
get together. I lost a goodbit of money on some conventions conferences that
(06:18):
are had already planned. And thenand then as kind of the people who
stayed in the business, I thinkthey've kind of figured it. Well,
everybody who wants to know knows.Now there's not as many people who wanting
to know as we thought, sothey've kind of died down too, So
I don't know, it's very odd. If it's an unbelievable program, I
(06:41):
don't think we'll ever see anything likeit again. Yet people are taking advantage.
But the purpose of this call wasmostly to talk about creative things that
you can do with the Opportunities Onprogram and unappreciated elements of it. I
mean, I'm happy to talk toindivisions about the details about how it works,
but suffice it to say that ifyou ever generate capital gains, you
(07:05):
can create a vehicle to both deferbeing taxed on those capital gains and then
to make investments with those capital gainsthat have unlimited tax free upside after a
ten year old. So if anybodywants more details with that, they can
contact me, and I know you'llprovide my contact information. But I'm gonna
assume for this I'm going to assumefor this podcast that people pretty much know
(07:30):
the basics, and I'm going totalk about some some things that people don't
generally know or haven't thought about doingwith the Opportunity One program. So Jerry,
let me let me let me askyou one question first in your opinion.
What do you think the biggest advantageand best way to use opportunity zones?
(07:58):
If you know all about them,what's the best way to go about
taking the biggest advantage from them?Well, I mean, do you do
you invest in the real estate?I think every individual, besides the institutional
opportunities with opportunity zones, I thinkevery individual ought to have their own self
(08:22):
directed opportunities own funderation because it reallyacts like a rock ira on steroids,
and so why not have it todo personal investing and similar things. And
then there's some long term benefits aswell that we'll be talking about. But
(08:43):
as far as what you do withit, there are some real advantages to
I guess I'd put it this way. The most reliable methodology to take advantage
of the opportunity zone unlimited tax freeupside is to invest in arrangements that contain
(09:05):
assets that are reliably going to increasein value over a ten year to twenty
year period, because you know,you know you're going to get that benefit.
So real estate sits in there,but other things can fit in there
too, including collectibles, classic cars, firearms, artwork, maybe even investing
(09:30):
in barrels of whiskey for aging andbuying and selling it. Yes, you
mean to buy it and sell itto create the capital gains to invest in
the opportunity zone. Yeah, subjectto the ten year old but yes,
that's right, you know. Butso real estate investingly dominated this space.
But on the other hand, investingin operating businesses, including tech businesses,
(09:58):
now that's less reliable. You're goingto produce a enterprise that you know will
have capital appreciation over ten to twentyyear period. However, it's almost like
playing the lottery, right, Soif you set up your fabulous tech business
today as an opportunity's own business,well, if you happen to be Google,
(10:22):
you're gonna have billions of dollars atax free upside after a ten if
you happen to be if you happento be what was the thing before Facebook,
like Friends Store or something. Ifyou haven't be that, you're not
gonna or Netscape. Yeah, ifyou happen to be one of those,
(10:43):
after ten years, you're gonna haveno value. But it's so so the
asset type investing should give you reliable, untaxed, tax free upside, but
investing in operating businesses you know,it just depends upon how it's more like
if it's a tech type business,more like a lottery types, if it's
(11:07):
a more standard business. You know, the businesses that are reliably going to
have greater value ten years now,our businesses that are based on a cash
flow on adding recurring recurring income overtime, like since persons to property management,
and that builds in value based uponincreasing recurring revenue. I've done a
(11:31):
bunch of property management companies as opportunitieson businesses, and they know they're going
to grow, and in ten yearsthey can sell their their property management business
with much more recurring income because they'veadded more and more clients. And the
value of the business is based uponyou know, a net present value of
(11:52):
the recurring income occurring revenue. Soyou know, that is pretty much a
no brainer to put an opportunity zonevehicle. But you know, you just
have to look at each each operatingbusiness and think about whether it makes sense
to structure them as upties on business. But that's one of the things could
talk about here. Yeah, wellyou're talking about really people, you're you're
(12:13):
talking about you're talking about any kindof business with a subscription model. Then
right, I would be ideal.Any business and subscription model would be really
a good model for this if especiallyif you reliably knew you're gonna build those
subscriptions and after ten years you wouldwant to be selling out right right exactly,
you know right now with on TV, Now we're all these apps for
(12:35):
their Netflix, You're food, butall this other stuff that's going on there,
and you have to subscribe to eachone of them individually. You realize
how much money that you're spending eachmonth just on each of these different programs,
and I think to myself, bollyouse, guys must be making a
ton of money when many times,however, many people are subscribed. Yeah,
right, anyway, So just toget going on it, first,
(13:01):
I wanted to talk about unanticipated orunderappreciated areas where you can get that first
step, that is investing into acallupit opportunity fund or a QOF under the
Opportunity Zone program. So, asI mentioned, you need to have generally
capital gains or Section twelve thirty onegames or Section twelve fifty depreciation, anything
(13:26):
that kind of feeds into your scheduleD on your tax form to be able
to invest that into an opportunity zonefund what's called a QOF, and you
generally have to do that within onehundred and eighty days. But most people
know who are in the space,but many people who are not in the
space don't know. Most don't knowis that you the one hundred and eighty
(13:48):
d eighty period is not limited tocertain types of things. If you generate
your capital gain through a partnership,then in addition to your one hundred eighty
days, you can invest in aKOF from the period of December thirty first
of the year when the gain isrecognized through September tenth of the following year.
(14:13):
So whenever I get a client inand they're talking about capital gains,
I actually asked them what capital gainsdo they generated since the beginning of the
prior year and if any of themcame from partnership. So that's that's one
thing that is kind of underappreciated.Another thing that is really underappreciated and even
in the space, that even evenin respective people in the space, is
(14:39):
that when it comes to ten thirtyone investing, which is like kind investing
in real estate. So if yousell an investment property and you set it
up as a ten thirty one deal, you give your money to a qualify
inter media, you don't take possessionof your money, and you have one
hundred and eighty days to find anew property to invest in, and when
(15:01):
that happens, you move your basisover to the new property and you defer
your tax and you have a newinvestment. Well, interestingly, you have
one hundred eight days just like youhave one hundred eight days, and the
cheesis best you. So most peoplehave just kind of assumed that those two
periods run concurrently. But the realityis that, let's say you don't get
(15:24):
anything invested in one hundred and eightydays, so the qualified intermediary returns your
money, or maybe you got investedin something but not all of it,
and the qualified intermediary can't return yourmoney until that hundred eight eighty period,
so you can't. It's hard tomake opporunity own investment. You could use
other cash, but you could.It's hard to make it our keyes own
investment while your money is tied upwith a q I qualified in your mediary.
(15:48):
And most people think, well,now I've lost one hundred eight eight
period opportuitie investment. But here's thepeople who know a taxpayer can choose the
date of recognition for a ten thirtyone sale to be either the date of
(16:10):
the sale or the date when thequalified intermediary returns all or part of the
original sale proceeds. It's basically youelect installment sale. So now if you
file your tax return correctly, youhave another one hundred and eighty days to
(16:30):
take the capital gains that will havebeen taxed because you didn't complete your full
or any of your ten thirty onesale to look at investing in the opportunity
zone structures. Now you have tofile your tax turns correctly and make sure
your file. I think it's aForm sixty two fifty two along with the
(16:55):
regular Form eighty twenty four four tenthirty one on deals. But that's how
you can do that. Now youhave a way to save yourself and to
defer and to get the best flitsthe opportunity on statues. So that's kind
of one of the underappreciated even bypeople in the industry. Devices you can
(17:17):
use. That's the point. I'vebeen dealing with some TEMP thirty one guys
for a long time, Jerry,and that's the first time anyone's ever mentioned
that to me, that's really interesting. That's an excellent thing. Yeah.
Now, even even if you weren'tgoing to do an opportunity zone deal,
this actually gives you away if you'reselling your property in the last half of
(17:40):
a year to defer your tax eventfrom year one to year two. Right,
Most people don't even realized this.Yeah. So now the other thing
people are people don't always realize howbroadly you can generate capital gains. I'll
(18:02):
give you an example. I wasjust dealing with a rancher up in Oklahoma
and for certain sales of their cattle, those cattle are sold as capital gains.
People don't realize that. I wasdealing with a guy who has a
(18:22):
business where they generate assets over time, and they sit on those assets for
a while and then sell them andthen they get Section twelve thirty one treatment,
which is similar to capital games andused and can be used in opportunities
on investing. They generate Section twelvethirty one games every year, and now
(18:44):
that guy has set up his ownself directed opportunities on fund to put those
moneys in there and make opportunity oninvestors. And one really interesting thing I
just got involved in a carbon creditssale, and depending upon how they're created,
carbon credits can be a capital assetthat generates capital gains when you sell
(19:07):
them to geez. You know,that goes through the question of getting into
the program and generating the kind ofcapital that qualifies to be used in the
program. So really interesting things thatyou see as you continue to matriculate through
this space. Do you think thatwhat it's been about maybe what seven eight
(19:30):
years since opportunity jones, since theJob Acts created the opportunity zones? Have
they refined the process? Have theylike learned from what they didn't do and
now they made it better? Anddo you think that the reason that so
(19:51):
many people don't know about opportunity zonesis because they think they're either too complicated
or there's too much involvement with formsand government intervention and all that that they
don't want to be bothered. Sothey're losing out on a great opportunity.
(20:11):
Yeah, So I think there aretwo questions there. Has things been refined?
The short answer to have things beenrefined is no, As far as
as far as the irs or caselarge, there's been no material amounts.
There's been a little bit. Forinstance, there's one of the things we're
(20:33):
gonna talk about is opportunities own rollups, and so there has been a
private letter ruling from the IRS onhow you merge qualified opportunity funds and qualified
oportunity z own businesses together, andthat's going to be very useful for folks
who want to do roll ups.Roll ups being you aggregate a bunch of
businesses at private company multiples and thenyou look to sell at higher multiples,
(20:56):
either publicly or to a larger investor. So that's one area that's been a
little bit, but frankly, therejust hasn't been a whole lot. I
mean, some as people practice init, like me and the and the
tax people who practice in it,you know, they've kind of they've kind
of informally with the IRS clarify somethings, but really marginal kind of clarification
(21:19):
of things and that and I kindof suspect there won't be a lot of
clarification because the program, I mean, the investment in the program ends in
twenty twenty seven in respect of capitalgains generated through twenty twenty six. Thereafter,
you can still operate these and Ithink they will operate and you can
(21:41):
increase your portfolio and grow your structures. But you know, it's a relatively
short life program and I don't thinkpeople are going to get around to creating
case laws and stuff like that fora while, So not a lot of
refinements yet. And as far asyour second question about why people and got
into it, yeah, people have. I can tell you from talking to
(22:03):
folks who call me and and thenthey say, Wow, I didn't get
into it because this isn't this Theythink it's all investing in slums and it's
not there. I mean, it'sinvesting in lower income communities, but a
lot of these are already gentrifying,or the demographics in the community as far
(22:26):
as personal income is low. Butthe but the commercial infrastructure is beautiful,
and you could do you know,I've got where's one opportunity zone in the
Dallas area in Plane, Oh,believe it or not, one of the
wealthier suburbs of Dallas, where righton the main highway it's called Central Expressway,
(22:47):
and the name stands for what itis. It's kind of central to
everything right on the highway. Andit just happens that along that highway.
For the last seven years has beena very large trailer park, but not
much other habitation. And meanwhile,all around it has grown up, you
know, great assets. The costgoes the shopping centers and things like that.
(23:11):
But the demographic is low income.So there's a lot of people think,
hey, I want to have todo any opportunities and because you know
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'mgonna have to invest in bad places.
Well, number one, there's agood opportunity wherever you go, right,
even when a place gets depressed,you're going in at a lower basis,
(23:32):
so you should be able to makesomebody self. I mean, the whole
purpose is to get people who generatecapital gains and wealth to invest in underinvested
communities. And that doesn't mean you'regonna invest in a lost cause at all.
Other people, Hey, I haven'tread no I I just said,
why would you invest in a badplace? Well, like I said,
(23:57):
uh, you know, you gottamake every investment decision independently, right,
But if you invest in a diceyarea, well, no doubt you're getting
into the You're getting in at avery low cost, right, and if
you can manage the diciness and bringvalue it might might make sense now nowadays
where they don't police petty thefts anymore, maybe it doesn't make any sense because
(24:22):
you can't protect yourself. I mean, I don't know if i'd put they
complain about food deserts and low incomecommunities and then they let people rob the
food any story you put their mind, So I don't know, I mean,
but you gotta make each decision about, you know, with what you
do. I mean, so forinstance, in very low there's an area
in Dallas that is very low incomeand problematic, but it has a VA
(24:45):
hospital in it. Well, we'vedone opportunities on investments in clinics and hospitals
around that, right, and they'resecure everything else that is, and you're
in there very low cost, youhave a big upside. So oh number
one, that's well no, Iwas just going to say, here,
(25:07):
it's not that you there's opportunity zoneareas everywhere. I mean, even rural
you can invest in a farm.But here in Vegas, we have a
new arts district, right are youthere? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
(25:29):
yeah, Vegas, Vegas, LasVegas. Well yeah, and and they're
all over and and my point isthere you just have to look for them
because they're all over. I mean, who would think that you could build
a casino on the Las Vegas Stripin an opportunity zone when you're thinking that
(25:52):
you have to invest in depressed areas, that's not depressed area. Yeah.
Well, interestingly, interestingly, thereis a limitation on doing uh casinos as
opportunities on investments. But we actuallyhave been able to do that because there's
a workaround for that. Right.Yeah. The other thing, that's the
(26:18):
other that's another under appreciated element,right the casinos. Yeah, yeah,
that it is. Actually, Yeah, at certain in certain ways of investing,
you're not in a lot of investingin gambling or golf courses or bars
or things. You well you mightyou can't. So anyway, there's there's
(26:44):
legal you mean, you could openthere's legal businesses that there are limitations on
investing. Their colloquials are called sinbusinesses. But we can structure so that
you can invest in them. Andthen there are illegal businesses not brothel's legal.
There's no there's actually no limitation thatI know of at any stage of
investing in illegal brothel. Now,I don't know that I really want to
(27:08):
be involved in helping somebody do thatbut in any event, but basically entries
Canada's dispensaries or where marijuana is legal. I mean, that would generate a
ton of money in an opportunity zonebusiness. So there's a lot of people
(27:30):
doing that. But marijuana sales areillegal everywhere because under federal law, they're
illegal everywhere. Now they may belegal under state law. So there's an
open question as to whether that wouldbe something that the federal government, under
(27:51):
the federal tax code would think youare allowed to invest in on the opportunity
zone statute. There's arguments, buthe's tried it, so oh yeah,
a lot of people are doing itactually, and they're taking the risks that
that the i R s will sayit's okay. But investing in illegal businesses,
(28:17):
it's it's open questions whether you cando that under the opportunities Maybe if
you're a politician, well yeah,if you're especially if you're a politician who
has got lots of cover from themedia, and we'll try to find every
way possible to justify anything you do. And that seems to happen to bullsize.
(28:38):
The equation never happened, so soso listen to another one. Go
on I'm gonna just said we needto the closest side will say another another
to getting back to victis are intoa question or or the second half for
(29:00):
another thing I hear is that,hey, I don't want to tie up
my cash from making these sales ofcapital assets or sale of my business in
an opportunity z own vehicle. Well, the reality is, you don't type
your cash. If you set upyour own self directed opportunities on vehicle with
your cash from the sale of abusiness or sale of assets, it's still
your cash. You can still dothings with it. In fact, until
(29:25):
you actually do invest in opportunities owninvestments, actual underlying opportunity of vestments,
you can get access to cash anduse it forever whatever you like. You
have to structure correctly to do that, and you have and eventually you do
have to get in the appropriately qualifiedassets. But you know, that's in
the argument I've heard by people whoare ignorant of the structure many times.
(29:48):
So then since they think that's theway it is, they never look at
it or suggest it to their clients. So, I mean, there's the
numerable objections that people have, allof which are very uninformed. Other than
this. I would never have anybodydo opportunities on investing without engaging somebody like
(30:08):
me or CPA who's been involved init from day one, because while absolutely
while it's a simple thing to expresson a fifty thousand foot level, there
is some guidance that you need toset up correctly and stay compliant, and
it's not that expensive to steph compliants. I do it for fixed fees for
(30:32):
a lot of folks, which arevery reasonable, partly just because I'm a
zealot for the program and I wantas many people possibly to get the opportunity
in it. But anyway, so, was there some questions you guys are
holding. Oh well, I havea couple of comments. Actually, one
of them is I was going toask the question which you just answered in
that I think it's really important thatyou go with a professional like yourself when
those how to do it. Plus, I would imagine when people talk to
(30:53):
you and they say I want todo this, I want to that you
are experiencing nothing in the industry tomaybe give them some creative ideas and maybe
point them in a direction that theydidn't even know that they were supposed to
go to. Right, did yousee that right, and sometimes we can
fix things that they've set up incorrectlyor it didn't set up at all if
they get to us quick enough,right, right. And my second comment
(31:17):
was at the start of the podcastwe talked about deadlines and things like that
and how we kind of, youknow, we missed the deference a little
bit here and there. But ifsomeone were just so let's say, just
be dropped on the planet Earth todayand said they wanted to do an opportunity
zone fund and an opportunity zone investmentfor you know, they would get the
same kind of benefit today that theywould have let's say if they started four
(31:37):
years ago in terms of buying acompany or running a company and getting that
that capital gains advantage. Is thatright? Yes, Any anything that you
set up through the final days todo so in twenty twenty seven, you're
going to get that tax free upsideif you hold for that matter. Yeah,
(31:57):
that's the biggest part of the wholeprogram. That's what makes it so
attractive to a lot of guys.And I think that that people kind of
missed that. Sometimes when you hearpeople say, oh, I missed the
boat on opportunity zones, or youreally didn't. No, you haven't missed
it at all. Too many peopleare focused on the deferral part with the
capital games. The big thing isthe tax upside. That's why I liken
it to a roth Ira on steroids, because it basically that the although you
(32:22):
have to have capital games to investin, and all those those games will
be taxed. It's like investing aftertax dollars to get taxed three dollars out
right. So yeah, missing theboat is part of the argument that here
too, but that's only because theydon't understand that they haven't missed the boat.
Yeah. Yeah. And the thirdthing I was going to mention was
(32:44):
when people talk about opportunity zones,they always talk about it as a top
level thing, you know, okay, investing unders under served communities. And
what I really like about this podcastis that you're presenting the case that there's
so many other options and there's somany other creative usages of that people may
not even have thought of. Andyou know, I said before, I
deal with a lot of new estateguys who don't even understand it today,
(33:07):
and if you gave them this information, they'd be you know, deering the
headlights type of thing. So,yeah, when I talk, people are
uneducated about it. But they maystart skeptical, they may start open either
way. But by the time they'redone, I'm done with them, they're
totally conced. Yeah, exactly,And you care to convince them that much?
(33:28):
I just care to give them thefacts and the reality, you know
what I mean. I don't careget the funniest stuff to do. See
a lot of times these these peoplewho are uneducated about the program are the
same people who don't understand it thatare are educated on the program. They
still need to know this stuff.So I sure this has really good a
(33:49):
good informative podcast. So Jerry,I mean people have to get a hold
of you. Now, how dothey do that? What's what's going on
with that? Your email or phoneor what's the best way to contact you?
Yeah, no, I'm pretty prettyavailable. I mean, the probably
the easiest thing is that email me. I mean, I think you're gonna
put this in the notes to thepodcast, but g Rison g R E
I H S E N at SwordShield Law dot com sw R D s
(34:15):
H I E L D Law dotcom or I think just call me two
one four nine zero eight two zerozero nine. Well, I think people
should definitely call you for sure ona topic like this. Victy, what
do you think about this? Doyou think that we educated some people in
the audience to say, listening toour podcast, I think we did run
(34:35):
And I think that people who hadan idea of opportunity zones now can understand.
You know, remember when they firstcame out run and we thought opportunity
zones were so hot. We wereso excited about them. And it boggles
my mind that after all of theseyears, there's still a hot investment opportunity,
(35:00):
but people don't know about them forwhatever reason. And I would think
that if you're a person who's inthe position that generates capital gains on a
regular basis, that you should finda financial advisor and a state planning attorney
(35:20):
that can help you to create afund to cause people like Jerry Risen to
help you to set it up toyour advantage and take advantage of the opportunity
zone program. Because it was hotthen, it's hot now, and it's
gonna be hot tomorrow, So geton the wagon. Call Jerry because he's
(35:45):
an expert. He's an absolute expertin the country. Call him, get
ideas set it up, make money, be happy. Jerry, you're the
man as you're the best scary.We love having you on as a guest.
(36:07):
We absolutely do. Jerry, wouldyou like to have Vicky Vicky a
company to all these trade shows andgive you that kind of introduction? Yes,
you can, you can be talented, I wonder, I am,
Yeah, you can make up?Yeah, all right, Rose sends a
(36:28):
lot to being a guest. Appreciated, Vicky. Thanks for co hosting the
show. Folks, you're listening tothe maffable USA podcast at maffable USA dot
com. If you go to thatwebsite, you scroll down, you see
all our syndication sources. Pick theone you like best and subscribe and you'll
never miss another one of our episodes. If you want to be a guest
on the show like Jerry was today, just go out the guest tab.
(36:49):
We'll see what you can do aboutgetting you on the show. How did
you like what you heard today?Send us in an email at info at
mathable USA dot com, or justleave a comment on whatever said you're listening
to right now so say her supportthanks too. If you would be at
the next time her not before yourthinking. I guess every bad day, everyone
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