Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Sir, I'm detecting a subspace message. I'll put it on speakers Subspace dare
to wonder. Hey, guys,Chad Rook from War for the Planet of
the Apes and you are listening toMark Who forty two. Welcome to Mark
(00:46):
Who forty twos universe here on SubspaceRadio Network. We can also be heard
all around the interweb thing on podcastplatforms everywhere and blurred the geek Scene and
Geekcash Radio both dot com. Okay, folks, my name is Mark Baumgarden.
I'm the host here, but youknow I can't do this show myself.
(01:07):
And you know what, I'm goingto invite some other people on the
show that are usually here. Butyou know what, I don't know if
it's really them, it could besomebody else, it could be another type
of being in there. Anyway,we're talking scrolls today. It's Vicky Jacobowski.
Hi, Vicky, are you doing? I swear it's me today?
(01:30):
I really is it? We doa blood test to make sure no blood
test, that's just me? Idare you question me? Okay? We
also have someone who are definitely goingto give the blood tests too. It's
Zion Caros. Hey, Zion Hi, oh boy Scrolls. What a concept,
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Marvel Comics and Marvel Cinematic Universe.What a great imagination you have for
so many years. Anyway, we'regonna talk. We're gonna review and talk
about Secret Invasion, the six partminiseries on Disney Plus and then did a
couple of weeks ago, starring SamuelL. Jackson, Don Cheatle, Olivia
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Coleman, Martin Freeman. Well,Martin Freeman's in a little but yeah,
it's a little. It's not evenin the credits. He's like, at
the end of the credits, hesays, also, you know, also,
but anyway, we're gonna talk SecretInvasion, and you know, our
usual Marvel zombie expert Ed is nothere today, So we're gonna let Vicky
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be the Marvels. Hey, Vicky, why don't you take over? Absolutely,
I cannot feel edge shoes, butI'll do my best now. I
will be honest. I did notread the comic series that this is pulls
a smidge from this didn't either.I did what I've actually I started,
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I started, I just started.I did the one after it? Uh,
what was the one? The siege? I mean, I'm I'm going
back to all the Spider Man's fromlike two thousand something. So, but
I didn't start with Secret Invasion.I kind of started after reading it,
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you know, Spider Island and allthat stuff. I'm not a Secret Invasion.
I might go back. I mean, I have access to it,
you know, the Marvel Unlimited appso I get yeah, okay, Well,
in the Secret Invasion comic series,of course, is far more involved
than this six part series. Yeah, it's a much deeper story and and
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of course it's a far more recentcomic series. So it just I've heard
wonderful things about it. I recommendit based on what I have seen and
heard that if you want to doa deep dive into a mind bending concept,
you apparently need to really read it. So this takes a schmidge of
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a concept off of it, andit's it's just a little bitty bit of
it, and then it's kind ofits own thing. What this really is
is it takes the story of NickFury and goes back to where we left
off after the end of the movieof Captain Marvel and intersperses with some of
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the things we see with Nick Furyin the other movies and the other things
that we see in the Marvel universeover the past several years, and what
really happened to this rolls afterwards andhis secret network of spies, he couldn't
really find them a homeland, allthese things that happened, And of course,
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what always happens when you have agroup that doesn't have a home and
they're stuck and the promises that aremade to them are not kept. What
happens You get a disinfranchement, youget upset, you get a rebellion,
and well, you know, badthings start to happen. So that's a
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two second version. But now Iwant to do a deep dive with you
guys. Okay, I want totalk about I want to talk about everything.
So much happens in these six episodes, and they bounce around through time
that you almost needed a scorecard.And you have to be paying attention,
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not as much as Doctor Who,not as much as Doctor Who doesn't that
much. It's it's really about aforty year period, and but you do
have to be paying attention. Andthere's a lot of easter eggs hiding in
here. But I mean, okay, let's let's start with the first episode.
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Okay, So we're back and whereyou're dealing with the school refugees,
and he says an exchange for SamuelJackson goes, well, excuse me,
Nick Fury goes in exchange, Yeah, in exchange for helping him, he
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will continue looking for a new homeplanet. Yes, because the scrolls are
shapes shifters, he gets a networkof spies. This is how Nick Fury
is able to ride up the ranksof shields so quickly. Is he's able
to break cases nobody else can't seelike he can. I ask a question,
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Oh please do I feel like thatundermines Nick Fury, because the whole
show pretty much undermines Nick Fury.Because Ifermus says, like, Okay,
he's he's the theory because he's ableto use the scrolls to do whatever he
wants on the planet. And likeas far as like I gathered from like
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the theory at least prior to allof the scrolls and stuff, that he's
his own man, Like he's theguy that got the Avengers again, yes,
well, but he got the Avengerstogether after he's already had the spies.
I level, but I am coming. And and on the context of
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of like, how how did Iput it in release order. This is
before the concept of scrolls was evenin the end to you. So by
association, everything that he did priorto that he did himself. But then
they wrote in the scrolitzation and thenthis show cames at boom. Everything that
he did is just kind of thescrolls because I know, we just know
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that that's what he did. Butlook at it this way, because he
how to when you understand, likemilitary, a good military leader knows how
to take his assets. You'll seethis in the CIA, you see this
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in the FBI, you see thisin the military. They take their assets,
they know how to utilize them tothe best of their abilities and how
to okay, I'm gonna use theword manipulate the situations to be able to
have the most favorable outcomes. Andso throughout history you have these amazing leaders
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that most people don't realize that they'vehad assets on the ground that and this
is true in real life, notjust in comics, that they were able
to manipulate their assets to create situationsand prevent situations. There's a lot of
things that have happened in the worldwhere it could have ended up much much
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worse. Or things could have happenedthat didn't happen, because you see it
actually in everyday world with confidential informantsat the level of police and and lower
level law enforcements, where they're ableto use assets to stop things from happening
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finding out about big things coming in. So I view Nick Fury as taking
advantage of an asset that he had. And it's not that he wasn't his
own man. It wasn't that.It just he had this asset and he
knew how to stop bad things fromhappening. He probably could have prevented World
War Three. He probably could haveprevented other things from happening that we don't
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even know about and they don't eventouch on in this series, because he
found out about them before they evenhappened. He found out about insurgents here
and there and everywhere before they evenhappened. When you think about how World
War One and World War Two evenstarted, imagined if you had someone with
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boots on the ground who told someonebefore the anarchists with the bomb even through
it at Ferdinand. Imagine if someonehad told us about what the Nazi Party
was planning prior to them even doingit. You know and having real information
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and not just the gut, butthat we had it. Just that's what
he did. And so it feelslike it's a cop out. It feels
like, well, he didn't reallydo anything. No, he just used
the maximum of the assets he hadas a director of Shield. He no,
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No, as a director of Shield, he gave people jobs, has
people do things for him. Hewas just practicing. Here's just practicing.
I mean, but no, hewas showing his leadership skills. He was
showing his leadership skills. And that'swhy he rised up part of them.
Okay, My whole thing about thewhole assets thing, right is that that
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makes sense. But we have agiant asset that can quench this entire thing
into a commercial. And her nameis kil Devers. Yeah. See that's
the problem. This guy has KilleDevers on speed dial. You ussell speed
dial university. Yeah, and look, all I can say is this,
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Carol Denvers could find this guy intwo point five seconds and dispose of him
in a minute. But let's justforget about this guy for a second.
Right, Carl Devers can move fasterthan life. Right. Yeah, she's
she's she's so far out there thatwhen I Black Middle called her, she
said, I'm out so far thatI'm helping other planets doing other things.
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Why does it take her thirty yearsto find these guys a planet? M
what is she doing? I youknow that this one question makes me want
to see what happens in Marvels becauseit does no explanation of something so direly
important that she just forgot the mainthing that she left on Earth for thirty
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years. Because this is not onlya nick theory job, this is a
Captain Marvel job. Because this guy'sties directly back to Captain Marvel. Well,
I have a top about that.Not just let me say something,
not just Captain Marroll. Here's theelephant in the room. And it's one
of the things that people site whenthey say they didn't like it. This
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could have been solved, like you'resaying, with Captain Marvel, but with
the Avengers. Yes, and thereare a lot of avengers. So even
if some of the Avengers are offplanet, there are still some Avengers that
have to be on the planet.Where were they where Falcon? Yeah,
Falcon look like like this whole thing, Like, let's go back by the
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first episode and take where this wholething spires out of control with the bombing
in Russia. Okay, right,you put Sam Wilson in Nos, South
America in there, this whole thingends you put spot him in there,
and you can tell that he's ascrull. He's a scrull. Okay,
let's let's get them. And thenand then this all ends up as a
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commercial. But and again the sticktheoring with with more assets than anyone that
we we know out there. Hehas. He had no problem calling the
Avengers before, he begged people tocome together. So now why all of
a sudden went through world World Worththree is about to go down. He
says, Oh, it's personal.I gotta do this myself. Why why
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because technically this is worse than thestories because there's there's one point one million
scrawls out there. This is globaldestabilization on the f degree. So why
wouldn't you get all the help thatyou can can muster up? And just
says, oh, this is personal. There's something too much holes and like
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I don't know, like if ifthey let things out to make theory the
main star and him and I havingto him do most of the stuff,
it would make sense. But throughoutmost of the series, it says everyone
saying, Yo, you're old,get out, you can't do anything.
Get out. Well, I thinkthat there have been times throughout the history
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of some of the comics where youknow, there has been questions, you
know, why haven't they brought inthis character that character? You know,
And part of the issue is that, you know, if you always solve
it with your most powerful ones,then there is no story, right,
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So there is that part of itthat you lose any aspect of a story
if you always bring in Superman orMarvel or anything like that. There's that
part of it. Well, Ialso go with the do you always bring
the nuclear bomb? We have wehave particular bombs. Do we bring a
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nuclear bomb every time there's a situation, No, we don't. So just
because they're there, do you bringthem every freight time this is a situation?
No, Fur, Yeah, itwas. I don't know if I
would say that because it was gonnabe a nucluding war because of this.
It was a nuclear situation. That'sbecause the president was making it that way.
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Yeah. Well no, But here'ssomething interesting. Fury said, the
reason he wasn't calling in the bigguns is because this is personal. Yes,
it's the world. It's not justyou, Nick, it's everybody.
You can't be personal, call inthe Avengers or somebody. Now, I
get it. I get it.This was Nick h Yeah. And was
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he wrong? Yes, he mighthave been wrong. Yeah, but I
mean I get it. This isthe Furious story. This is the furious
story. You want to tell astory about him, I get it.
Like Spider Man, Well, theSpider Man keeps bringing people in, like
Iron Man. But yeah, butyou're right, it's not supposed to be
an Avenger show. Uh, theAvengers are going to show up an other
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things. Captain Marvel, Carol Danversis going to show up in the Marvel
See. Nick could be wrong.Yeah, and and that can be part
of the story that Nick is wrongin not bringing them in. Yeah,
I agree, I agree, yes, but yes, but through that we
get no conclusion because even though Nickis wrong, the scrollser stor on Earth.
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But except now the President has hasa kill switch now on them,
and then nothing's been solving again,Captain Marvel still out there in Galaxy nine
doing guten knowls. What what areyou saving and saving people? She's saving
people and stopping wars, and well, like, for example, during the
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blip, she mentioned go ahead.She mentioned during the blip that you know,
our world was not the only worldaffected by whitliss, right, so
she was helping other planets because ourswas not the only world. So she
is the She's not just the internationalAvenger, she is the inter universal interstellar
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Avenger. So she is helping others. But you know she's not going to
just be there for our planet.She may originally be from our planet,
but her most of her memories comefrom all over. So it's one of
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those things where if if if sheis off planet, if she's off world
dealing with other situations, because Ican imagine there are other planets with far
more dire situations than us, havingan extent an extent a million compared to
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our five billion. I think sobecause they were trying to start a nuclear
war, right was there and theyfailed? Right now? They failed,
right, But and then the consequencesare the good aliens are going to be
hunted out too. The politicians whoaren't scrolls are going to be killed by
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people who think their scrolls are justanybody who wants to kill someone, that's
blame it on the scroll. OhI thought he was a scroll and you
won't go to jail. Let mesee something. I did not dislike the
show. I love the show.It was good, but these points irked
me and I know bothered a lotof people around the world because what is
it fifty four percent on rod andtomatoes must be Yeah, I think it's
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fifty four percent. I'll looked atit today. I think it's fifty four
percent. Oh, and I cantotally understand that. I just I guess
to me, it's like I canimagine things that are worse. Oh yeah,
totally four if he're not coming,because there is something worse out there
in the universe she's dealing with,right, and we already know that the
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Marvels are going to be it's goingto be uh kind of a combination of
a comedy and this you know,new Cree that is upset with the the
you know, it's going to makeRonan look like like a pussycat, you
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know it just yeah, I can'tknow that. I like that about that.
Well, that's science. But mything is, like I understand all
of that, right, but it'sthirty years And also my thing is is
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that the scroll here, let's mewant for a second that the Marvel is
a cree part cree right, thesegirls are higher on Earth because they lost
to the Creek, right right.I don't know any kind of the model
would feel like you see, youwould feel obbigative to fight people a planet
within a thirty year timeframe because ofyour people getting the people away from their
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planet. Like like, like whatI'm looking at is that this this thing
points that kind of marble. Itdoesn't look too good because like she's not
doing anything, like she comes in, comes out comes, in comes out
and says, Okay, I'm I'mdoing things, but we don't get to
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see what she's doing. It arbitrary, but I think that she's also doing
more than just that. And inthe in the last episode, when there's
a comment and I realize it's kindof throw away about how you know the
difficulty in finding a non hostile newworld. I mean, when you think
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about it, if there is anon hostile new world, and when I'm
thinking non hostile, my first thoughtis, Okay, first we got to
find a planet that is livable thatsomebody else is not already living. And
that's actually interesting. If she hadfound them a planet during the blip that
was empty. When the blip whenthey came back, right, there'd be
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a problem. So I'm actually thefact that she didn't do it before the
blip is probably is probably a goodthing. We have already found one the
planet that they know when we wason with Spider Man and Iron Man.
All right, yeah, yeah,we already had that one. So we
had and at the planet that thatis how empty and because that's really habitable
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that was Look, wasn't he farming? He wasn't then a farming Yes,
yeah, look like a very niceplace, look like a very nice place.
Well it's both yeah, tighten,because there was breathing one on ten
without any protection or anything, andyou had a planet that they knows was
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farming on. Okay, well theplanet that thanis was farming on for all
we know that there were other inhabitantson that one. And then the planet
where Spider Man died on it theymay have been breathing, but that did
not look like a very happy littleplanet to me, thank you very much.
Well, like if I'm on thescroll side and I want to live
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in my own skin, as theysaid, rather than living as a falsehood
for thirty years I think they takeit. Yeah, I don't know.
That look like the planet that thatthey ended up putting conon too, and
it became it became uninhabitable. Yeah, I'm sorry. It's just like,
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if I'm going to go to anew home world, it's got to be
one that I can live on,be happy on. I'm not going to
move to a desolate planet that's gotbroken ships all over the place. That's
not my idea of a good time. So, yeah, you don't put
an earworm in my Yeah, nownot happening. I just I think it's
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harder to find new homeworlds than thaneven the comics would lead us to believe.
Then side if you would ever leadus to believe. But also before
we get another bank of this,this is a good place to put off
on if if if one of thescrolls that's taken over someone is around somewhere
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for a certain amount of time,we that that scroll new of that planet
before this ever happened. I willget back into that. But yeah,
that's actually a good thought. Wedefinitely will get back to that. We're
going to take a break here onMARKO forty twos Universe. Here on Subspie
Radio and all the other places Imentioned at the beginning. We'll be right
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back. Don't go, don't goafter this, uh stand by Houston Wayer
Receiving signals from subspace. You arelistening to Mark Who forty twos Universe.
Welcome back to more of Mark Whoforty twos Universe here on Subspace Radio Network.
(25:23):
I'm your host, Mark Baumgarden.With me today are Vicky Jakobowski and
Zion Kiras, and we are talkingSecret Invasion the TV series. I mean,
we'll talk about the Colomicdo, butwe're talking about the DV series on
Disney Plus. Now. One ofthe interesting plot points about this has to
do with Roady Jim Rhodes and playedby Don Cheatle, and Zion has a
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question to ask Vicky and I Zion. Okay, so allviously these sins.
This is a secret invasion, andRody has been revealed to me a scroll.
This I can't even describe it aslike a can of worms. It's
like the can of worms from Dune, the can worms. But so the
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Scrolls are looking for a home planet. They can't find one within thirty years,
so they choose to take over Earth. Okay, war Machine has been
a scroll. Great, yeah,he says he if I remember, he
said, he's been it for along time. He can't walk. Yeah,
he's been a very long time.Okay, So if this is we
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are we assuming that he's been ascroll before? In Finny war Zion,
guess what, that's what people aresaying. They're seeing that. You know,
doesn't it retcon everything like Iron Manand stuff that that he was in.
And yeah, it's plausible that hewas a scroll. But then it
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doesn't make sense, does it it? Why would a scroll do everything that
unless he was trying to perfect hisrole in the world, right, he
might have been doing things that hewould good for the planet Earth so that
he could get to the point wherethey were going to take it over.
I see that, But I knowa lot of people have a problem with
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that. But like, let's keepit to the perspective of this show for
a second. Okay, okay,but but I also remember Roady and where
he's been, So these scrolls arelooking for a home planet. We're going
to assume. Let's let's make thisthe one constant that Roady has been a
scroll since if any war or before, if any wary this means scrawl.
(27:40):
Roady went onto the planet with amom with Thinos, right, Yeah,
therefore Roady knows about Scroll. Roadyknows about the uninhabited planet that we just
mentioned prior to the break. Yeah, so Scroll only knows about Bill that
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planet. But do we know itwas uninhabited? We happen we only see
the little piece with Fanos in it. We can't that it's uninhabited. Yeah,
zig and you know how it happenednow, the script said, so
yes, oh, I all right, but yeah it is. It's kind
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of odd, like like like Iunderstand that, like you that it's a
secret evasion and you have to havethe that Avenger was a scroll, right,
but you gotta make it fit becausenow like like it now you're now
you're forcing everyone to rewind and rewindand rewind and said this, We have
no actual hate basis of when hewas actually a scroll, just that he's
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been there for a long time.Now you have to question if this girl
has been in contact with all theother scrolls, because he's in contact with
the head, the head super Scroll. And we are still everything that we
just said about about infinity of Warrenssuch why didn't he tell them about this.
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It's it's like I do. Idon't like to use the word plot
hole a lot. Usually it's justbad writing, but this I feel like
it's actually a blot hole, atleast in a continuity sense. Okay,
well, there's a couple of waysyou can look at that. You can
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say that he couldn't walk because he'sbeen a scroll since the end of Civil
War ward, or he couldn't walkbecause he's been a scroll for a couple
of years and he's been trapped inthat thing. And if you don't use
your legs, your your muscle's atrophy. And so it could have only been
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a couple of years and not nineor ten, And so either could have
been true. Did none Did noneof the people who were hostage with the
scrolls that were being impersonated? Didany of them have a blip disappear?
That was right? Right? No, nothing was covered. On what I'm
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saying, is it someone should haveyou know, half the public. The
odds are that someone a couple ofthem would have went and there would have
been a problem when they came back. It was half the universe, absolutely
theoretically, But I will also saythat we do not know that the planet
he was on was uninhabited. Allwe see, a Thano says, was
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his land that he was farming.I could, yes, because he couldn't
paid a farm in Fallon, ina town near me, a town that
is inhabited, and it has afew thousand people in it, not that,
and it's it's the whole the wholeplanet Earth is inhabited. But if
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you went to this one farm,it would look like that's the only people
that live on this entire planet.That planet. If you remember, and
if any were, there was thatscene where they knows a crush on crush
the moon and threw it at them. Do you remember that that planet where
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where where he was talking with doctorStrengths and and you've seen your home,
yes, and it was beautiful rememberthat scene? Yeah? Yeah, that
that planet, that planet is notthe same as the one that he's on
he's farming on. That's a completelydifferent planet. I do see what Vicky's
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saying, because if you think aboutit, fanously have just terraformed that section
of the planet. There could bea wasteland everywhere, but he made he
terraformed where he was going to live. Yes, I'm reaching, but yeah,
well I see where it could eitherbe a plot hole or it may
(32:12):
not be. It just the problemis that it kind of depends on how
you read it. Okay, Andbecause I've been you know, like Mark,
I've been reading comic books, possiblyway too long, there have been
way too many so called plot holesand comic books and and and you know,
(32:35):
sometimes I resolve them with with whatwe call the the Dallas trick,
where you know, you wake upthe next morning and Bobby's in the shower,
no prize, just marvel, noprize, and solve the day exactly,
so you know, absolutely do sometimesthey have these these tricks that you
go really, of course they do. And for some of us it's like,
(33:00):
no, I can see that,because there are times I've read the
plot holes and I can't reconcile it. There are other times, Nope,
I can see that. So Ican see both sides of it, and
I can completely understand why some peopleare like, Nope, I don't like
this. I don't I don't getit, I don't feel it. For
(33:21):
me, it wasn't a big plothole because this was for me, this
was a story about Nick Fury andhow he was dealing with things and how
he was going to deal with itwithout the Avengers, because you can't always
even though, in all honesty,there are so many Avengers. I mean,
my marvels Ypipedia is so thick.Yeah, it's not just a core
(33:45):
of seven people. It's a lotof people. There's a few hundred of
them. Yeah, you know what'shonest. What's interesting. Before we did
the show, before Zion opened hismouth, I had no problem with this
story. I had nothing to say. I was just gonna say, Oh,
that's good. Zion is bringing thesethings out in my head, they're
(34:07):
like, oh, I was thinkingabout that. I guess I didn't like
that. This is coming across likea crucification here. I'm going to settle
down. There are good things inhere. Look like for example, like
I was, actually, guys,why did you guys think about the super
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scrolls? Oh? I love that. That was a nice idea because when
you think about it, it continuesthat arc because throughout the history of the
Avengers, going all the way backto Captain America, this idea of creating
a super soldier, which actually hasbeen a concept going back to at least
(34:52):
World War two, possibly World WarOne. I don't know. For sure,
but I do know for sure therewas a concept by both the al
and the access to create super soldiersin the real world, that the idea
of creating super soldiers in the Marveluniverse was a real thing. And so
(35:14):
of course you would want to thentake these super soldier blood, and you
would want to take the blood ofany of these Avengers and any powers that
they have, because that's actually aconcept that goes back to ancient times,
that our power is within our blood. And you know he took it without
asking, exactly, without asking heboundaries. Oh, yes, we had
(35:39):
a motive to do it, andyes it was for the world. It's
a you know, it's an ethicalbut ethically it's wrong what he did.
Yes, I can see him.I can see him trying to save the
world with it just in case asa problem, kind of like Batman,
kind of like Batman has to Kryptonitejust in case, yes, and goes
(36:00):
bad. So I see what NickFury did, the same thing as Batman.
He has the harvest just in case. No, absolutely, no,
I agree with you. Absolutely thisis and this is the side of this
is the spy side of Nick Fury. Yes, that's always a little questionable.
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You know, same with Olivia Coleman'scharacter of Sonja. You know,
when you're in the world of whenyou're in the spy world, you are
always one foot in questionable. Yeah, you have to be. You cannot
always be in the light because theworld does not always operate in the light.
(36:46):
And I'm not saying what they're doingis correct, but the shady side
of that is concerning. And thefact that as a back pocket trump card
he created these vials and he hadthese things collected is concerning. But at
(37:12):
the same time, it's a littlecool watching that final fight scene and seeing
this happen because it's very interesting andnow we have Gaya and we have this
super soldier super scroll that Olivia Culmanand m I six is going to use,
(37:37):
which is both cool and oh my, you know bringing up you brought
up the fight in the last episodebetween Gravic and Guya. Wait, so
she's diskies as they Fury right,Yes, Okay, episode five, when
he's walking out of the cemetery withthe vial, he's talking to someone.
(38:00):
I totally knew it was Gaya.And when episode six happened and Nick Fury
was like coughing and dying of theI knew it that did that was I've
been a lot of I don't know, did you guys think that or did
you I didn't think it was him. I did not think it was him.
Say, I knew something had tobe wrong because either it was going
(38:24):
to be him and it was goingto empower him somehow, like it was
going to captain America him, orit had to be like Guya or actually
I thought maybe it was going tosecretly be Talus and he wasn't really dead
he came from so it was kindof it had to be, you know,
(38:47):
something like that. It couldn't bethis that, it couldn't be this
easy. Yeah, So I knewthat there was there was something there.
There had to be a reveal.I did think that there was a possibility,
yeah, that Nick Fury was gonna, you know, suddenly come with
(39:10):
super powers or something. But no, it's funny that I totally saw an
hat coming at the episode five thateven has a wait for episode six to
see him walking looking like he wasdying. And I didn't need that.
I knew it he wasn't dying.Can I ask a question about GUYO?
Yeah? Ahead, Yeah, Sothe fight was cool. I not lie.
(39:35):
I enjoyed it, but then Ithought about it, and I swear
I don't like thinking sometimes because likeit's us a suspend disbelief. Yeah,
we have the Harvest. No,I totally get that, because we live
in the Marvel Age, and sowe have the Harvest, which I personally
(39:57):
think you should have been put inlike the second episode, but really that
out of way. Let's look atthe harvest for a second. So the
Harvest was given to Gaya, whoalso became a super Scrull who now has
Ghost Captain America, Cordis Glade,Thanos, Thanos, Outrider, Frosts by
Midnight, Captain Marvel, Abomination,Mantis Call, Obsidian, Drags, cord
(40:22):
Ebony, Ma Frost, Beast,Lpe, Shitari, Valkyrie, stor Go,
Mora, Floral, and Colossus,which I think is group and win.
I sold you. That's one,two, three, that's at least
fifteen in one. Why do weneed anyone else? Wasn't this super Skrull
at least supposed to have the Fantasticfourst powers? You see, that's my
(40:46):
problem. But the Fantastic Four hasn'tbeen recconed into the Marvel world yet,
so we're still not question that matterbecause they were simple powers. Rock fist
rock rocks don't fist, just goin visible. Yeah, But like my
thing is like she's she's a SwissArmy knife. Different movie, and like
(41:15):
she's not on a Swiss I meanknife, but she knows exactly how to
use everyone's power, Like like sheknew immediately how how to change their personality
with with with the Mantis stuff,I'm on the out of the way because
they had the memory crap. Butlike my thing is that, like if
if we have this all around SwissArmy knife working for the planet, I
(41:38):
mean, I just saw King getbeat by ant Man, What what do
I have to worry about? Yeah, well I think that it's it's something
that well, I think King gotbeat because of arrogance. Arrogance oftentimes gets
beat because they always think they can'tbeat eat and then they make mistakes.
(42:02):
But with her her purpose and herI'm gonna say her training by her father
and even her training by Nick Furyperhaps made her better than than Graviic.
Absolutely, But like my thing isis looking towards the future, like like
(42:29):
if we have had this character andI don't have to bring out Spider Man
because this ship is just going tobring out the Hawk Plus Store and call
it a day. So then becomesher. Yes, it is this and
like this is where like again Idon't like thinking we have Captain Marvel and
(42:50):
again this will this whole thing weuse around Captain Marvel, and I feel
like it revels less around Captain Marveland more of the misunderstanding of their version
of Captain Marble because we have onthe Marvel she has super strength and superspeediing
and and and your ability because shewas infused with the cream. Right,
But she's only been able to flyand do those confusion bolts because she got
(43:15):
God got the power from the InfiniStone. The Finnis Store has nothing to
do with the DNA. So whywhy does the Hardness transfer the the Finish
Stone power to the super scroll ItIt makes no sense except that you could
(43:38):
say, because I've seen this inin other stories, not necessarily kept a
Marvel, but that the shall wesay, the magic from the stone changed
for DNA? Okay, okay,I buy that, but makes it transferable?
(44:00):
Feel like again, If that's thecase, then why seel like my
whole thing is that if we couldtransfer Captain Marvel, why do we need
Captain Marvel? Why can we getanother Captain Marvel? Because because guy eventually
is going to go to another planet, so we still need the Avengers on
our planet. No, I am, I thought like tiring for that,
(44:22):
because like, look at that,we haven't the Harvest right now, we
have Captain Marvel with your name.We could actually make another Captain Marvel,
like how we did with Captain America. Yeah, why why why are we
not doing that? Why why isthat not a thing yet? See?
Actually that's a good point. Theycould have taken uh Steve Rogers blood at
(44:44):
anytime and recreate the super serium,but they weren't sure it was going to
be successful. Well okay, that'strue, but it was. It was.
But this was so successful that theyhit it and freaking Russia under a
stone that's not even real and theydidn't know it was going to be successful
(45:07):
until it was. Well yeah,but spies. But you know, the
governments do things you know are questionable, and they may have tried to see
if it worked. You know,Shields could have done that. They could
have took some test subjects and tried. From a writer's standpoint, I find
(45:27):
it interesting that they didn't add SpiderMan here. Yeah. I find sons
or sons a pain in the butt. Yea. Yeah, to Holland didn't
want to do another. I mean, you're gonna get to Holland to do
(45:50):
another movie. Is barely doing fourthe fourth movie. As far as I
know, he want to do more. I don't know, but now,
like you're gonna have to recast SpiderMan at some point. Maybe I think
that's that's what they're happened with withtheir version of Secret Wars. Yes,
(46:12):
yeah, that's another subject though.Yeah that's another TV show or a movie.
Yeah yeah, speaking of which,I feel like this would be better
as a movie because like it's sincelike it since I had the knowledge of
the comic book. I feel likeit's kind of been taking because when you
(46:34):
go into a secret invasion, it'slike, up front, you know what
this is about, your your yoursuperheroes are scrolls. Yeah, but this
is a superhero with scrolls but nosuperheroes. So I it like it should
have been a kin to like CivilWar. Yeah, it's counted as a
(46:58):
count of America movie, but isnot a Captain America movie, but it's
sent it around Captain America. Yeah, this one would have worked as a
movie. If they wanted to doa TV series, it should have been
thirteen episodes with superheroes like the comic. The fact that it was done,
because if you think about it,the episodes weren't that long. You know,
it was like three and a halfhours for the whole story, six
(47:21):
spot three and a half hours.You could have cut some of it out
and released in the theaters and Idon't know if it would have sold,
but yeah, it could. Iam glad you brought that up because on
what the previous shows that we hadhad what nine episodes or so, right,
and they said that we're going tocut down the episode, but some
of them were six episodes that werethey were like an hour long. Yeah
(47:43):
right right, But the whole pointof them cutting down what to give more
time. Correct. If that's thecase, then why are you only getting
two episodes that are an hour,another episode that's forty five minutes, and
then the other rest episodes are thirtyminutes? Yeah? I did. Did
(48:06):
you guys know that Miss Marvel wason ABC? Really? Yeah? And
fact that it was aision. Yeah, because it's interesting because those episodes don't
fit into a time slot. SoI know that the Sunday that we just
passed the day were recording it,So the Sunday just passed for people listening,
(48:28):
they had a promotional video kind ofthing to fill the time talking about
the Marvels. Yes, so,but yeah, I don't see why this
at Marvel is not making a star. Trek is doing it too. They're
not making it a set amount oftimes, so if it does, if
they want to put it somewhere else, it would fit right, just the
(48:52):
piccadillo of mine. I don't know. Well, I think that the concept
of set times is you know,the quote unquote TV times is becoming a
thing of the past. That's true. That's true. The streaming times are
(49:12):
are winning where okay, well,you know what, this story is going
to take an hour and a half. Regardless of how long it's going to
take, you know, timeslots justaren't the same anymore. That's true,
And so if they want to haveit on quote unquote regular TV, they're
going to find a way to makeit fit without necessarily cutting, because if
(49:36):
you cut the story, that's nolonger the cool thing to do, because
you know, it used to beyou know, if you saw a movie
on on TV, it was likecut for formatting and I don't remember what
the word was, but you know, language or you know, or broadcasting
rules, Yes, something silly likethat. And the streamings are winning.
(50:02):
And because of that, you know, they're they're now making it fit the
story not the time slot. Yeah, yes, I see that, And
really I don't have problems with it, except for what Zion was saying,
because it should have been longer.If they were going to do it at
(50:22):
all, there shouldn't have been thirtyfive minutes. This could have even been
a quote unquote streaming movie. Yeah, that's what we're saying. It could
have been a movie. Could havebeen a streaming movie, not necessarily a
theatrical release movie like does Adam SandlerNetflix movies. Yeah, compare the two.
(50:44):
But anyway, and I think thatI agree with you guys that watching
it over the time it was tooshort. Now we actually just binge watched
it over the course of two nights, and for me it was like,
Okay, these episodes are way tooshort because when I think about so many
(51:07):
of the other shows we watched,whether it was MCU or Star Wars or
anything like that. Most of themare longer. Most of them are forty
five minutes too, closer to anhour and a half. And that was
worth that felt binge able, Yes, but they're thirty minutes. It's not
a binge. It's it's you know, that's a sitcom. This was not
(51:31):
a sitcom. This would have beena really good TV movie and it would
have been a good segue into otherthings like the Marvels and other things,
and they could have done that.That might have been my only critique.
I didn't have a problem with thestorylines. But that's because I'm fine with
(51:55):
it because I can, in mymind fill in the blanks. I can
my mind say, well, butthis could have happened, and that could
happen, because I've had the comicbooks do that to me over the years,
and I've spent my lifetime filling insaid blanks. You know, I
also can respect no. No,don't go to no. No. We've
(52:16):
lived our lives. No, Okay, we have to go into this afterwards.
Okay, folks, we're gonna stophere. If you're listening on Subspace
Radio Network, we're gonna have totake good bye to you, but please
go to the Mark Who forty twosUniverse podcast over all the powercast platforms and
Florida Geek Scene and Decaf Radio everywhereand listen. We're going to keep this
(52:42):
conversation going on this podcast, thethe Mark Whup, not just Mark Who
forty two Universe because that's the shortone that's based on this episode. We
want the extended period, the MarkWho forty tis Universe podcast, where we
will talk to you more about SecretInvasion. But for those Subspace Radio,
so long and we'll be right backif you're not. Thanks for listening to
(53:10):
Mark Up forty twos Universe featuring MarkBoundgarden, Ifwarto mfryor Icky Chakobowski and Zion
Curos. This show was produced anddirected by Mark Boundgarden. If you'd like
to get in touch with us,go to our Facebook page or email us
at Markup forty two s dot Universeat gmail dot com. Our radio show
(53:34):
airs weekly on Subspace Radio Network atwww dot Subspace dot Radio and an iHeartRadio.
You can listen to our old showsat our website, MARKO forty two
dot com and many podcast platforms suchas iTunes, Audible, and Pandora.
And if you want to hear showsdating back to twenty twelve with over one
(53:54):
hundred and fifty celebrity interviews, tryour YouTube page. Marko forty to Marcrew
forty two s Universe copyrighted twenty twentythree. Subspace Day to one Done
Sir, I'm detecting a subspace message. I'll put it on speakers Subspace dare
to wonder. Hey, guys,Chad Rook from War for the Planet of
the Apes and you are listening toMark Who forty two. Welcome to Mark
(00:46):
Who forty twos universe here on SubspaceRadio Network. We can also be heard
all around the interweb thing on podcastplatforms everywhere and blurred the geek Scene and
Geekcash Radio both dot com. Okay, folks, my name is Mark Baumgarden.
I'm the host here, but youknow I can't do this show myself.
(01:07):
And you know what, I'm goingto invite some other people on the
show that are usually here. Butyou know what, I don't know if
it's really them, it could besomebody else, it could be another type
of being in there. Anyway,we're talking scrolls today. It's Vicky Jacobowski.
Hi, Vicky, are you doing? I swear it's me today?
(01:30):
I really is it? We doa blood test to make sure no blood
test, that's just me? Idare you question me? Okay? We
also have someone who are definitely goingto give the blood tests too. It's
Zion Caros. Hey, Zion Hi, oh boy Scrolls. What a concept,
(01:57):
Marvel Comics and Marvel Cinematic Universe.What a great imagination you have for
so many years. Anyway, we'regonna talk. We're gonna review and talk
about Secret Invasion, the six partminiseries on Disney Plus and then did a
couple of weeks ago, starring SamuelL. Jackson, Don Cheatle, Olivia
(02:22):
Coleman, Martin Freeman. Well,Martin Freeman's in a little but yeah,
it's a little. It's not evenin the credits. He's like, at
the end of the credits, hesays, also, you know, also,
but anyway, we're gonna talk SecretInvasion, and you know, our
usual Marvel zombie expert Ed is nothere today, So we're gonna let Vicky
(02:45):
be the Marvels. Hey, Vicky, why don't you take over? Absolutely,
I cannot feel edge shoes, butI'll do my best now. I
will be honest. I did notread the comic series that this is pulls
a smidge from this didn't either.I did what I've actually I started,
(03:13):
I started, I just started.I did the one after it? Uh,
what was the one? The siege? I mean, I'm I'm going
back to all the Spider Man's fromlike two thousand something. So, but
I didn't start with Secret Invasion.I kind of started after reading it,
(03:34):
you know, Spider Island and allthat stuff. I'm not a Secret Invasion.
I might go back. I mean, I have access to it,
you know, the Marvel Unlimited appso I get yeah, okay, Well,
in the Secret Invasion comic series,of course, is far more involved
than this six part series. Yeah, it's a much deeper story and and
(04:00):
of course it's a far more recentcomic series. So it just I've heard
wonderful things about it. I recommendit based on what I have seen and
heard that if you want to doa deep dive into a mind bending concept,
you apparently need to really read it. So this takes a schmidge of
(04:26):
a concept off of it, andit's it's just a little bitty bit of
it, and then it's kind ofits own thing. What this really is
is it takes the story of NickFury and goes back to where we left
off after the end of the movieof Captain Marvel and intersperses with some of
(04:47):
the things we see with Nick Furyin the other movies and the other things
that we see in the Marvel universeover the past several years, and what
really happened to this rolls afterwards andhis secret network of spies, he couldn't
really find them a homeland, allthese things that happened, And of course,
(05:12):
what always happens when you have agroup that doesn't have a home and
they're stuck and the promises that aremade to them are not kept. What
happens You get a disinfranchement, youget upset, you get a rebellion,
and well, you know, badthings start to happen. So that's a
(05:35):
two second version. But now Iwant to do a deep dive with you
guys. Okay, I want totalk about I want to talk about everything.
So much happens in these six episodes, and they bounce around through time
that you almost needed a scorecard.And you have to be paying attention,
(06:00):
not as much as Doctor Who,not as much as Doctor Who doesn't that
much. It's it's really about aforty year period, and but you do
have to be paying attention. Andthere's a lot of easter eggs hiding in
here. But I mean, okay, let's let's start with the first episode.
(06:21):
Okay, So we're back and whereyou're dealing with the school refugees,
and he says an exchange for SamuelJackson goes, well, excuse me,
Nick Fury goes in exchange, Yeah, in exchange for helping him, he
(06:46):
will continue looking for a new homeplanet. Yes, because the scrolls are
shapes shifters, he gets a networkof spies. This is how Nick Fury
is able to ride up the ranksof shields so quickly. Is he's able
to break cases nobody else can't seelike he can. I ask a question,
(07:10):
Oh please do I feel like thatundermines Nick Fury, because the whole
show pretty much undermines Nick Fury.Because Ifermus says, like, Okay,
he's he's the theory because he's ableto use the scrolls to do whatever he
wants on the planet. And likeas far as like I gathered from like
(07:30):
the theory at least prior to allof the scrolls and stuff, that he's
his own man, Like he's theguy that got the Avengers again, yes,
well, but he got the Avengerstogether after he's already had the spies.
I level, but I am coming. And and on the context of
(07:51):
of like, how how did Iput it in release order. This is
before the concept of scrolls was evenin the end to you. So by
association, everything that he did priorto that he did himself. But then
they wrote in the scrolitzation and thenthis show cames at boom. Everything that
he did is just kind of thescrolls because I know, we just know
(08:13):
that that's what he did. Butlook at it this way, because he
how to when you understand, likemilitary, a good military leader knows how
to take his assets. You'll seethis in the CIA, you see this
(08:37):
in the FBI, you see thisin the military. They take their assets,
they know how to utilize them tothe best of their abilities and how
to okay, I'm gonna use theword manipulate the situations to be able to
have the most favorable outcomes. Andso throughout history you have these amazing leaders
(09:03):
that most people don't realize that they'vehad assets on the ground that and this
is true in real life, notjust in comics, that they were able
to manipulate their assets to create situationsand prevent situations. There's a lot of
things that have happened in the worldwhere it could have ended up much much
(09:24):
worse. Or things could have happenedthat didn't happen, because you see it
actually in everyday world with confidential informantsat the level of police and and lower
level law enforcements, where they're ableto use assets to stop things from happening
(09:50):
finding out about big things coming in. So I view Nick Fury as taking
advantage of an asset that he had. And it's not that he wasn't his
own man. It wasn't that.It just he had this asset and he
knew how to stop bad things fromhappening. He probably could have prevented World
War Three. He probably could haveprevented other things from happening that we don't
(10:16):
even know about and they don't eventouch on in this series, because he
found out about them before they evenhappened. He found out about insurgents here
and there and everywhere before they evenhappened. When you think about how World
War One and World War Two evenstarted, imagined if you had someone with
(10:37):
boots on the ground who told someonebefore the anarchists with the bomb even through
it at Ferdinand. Imagine if someonehad told us about what the Nazi Party
was planning prior to them even doingit. You know and having real information
(10:58):
and not just the gut, butthat we had it. Just that's what
he did. And so it feelslike it's a cop out. It feels
like, well, he didn't reallydo anything. No, he just used
the maximum of the assets he hadas a director of Shield. He no,
(11:20):
No, as a director of Shield, he gave people jobs, has
people do things for him. Hewas just practicing. Here's just practicing.
I mean, but no, hewas showing his leadership skills. He was
showing his leadership skills. And that'swhy he rised up part of them.
Okay, My whole thing about thewhole assets thing, right is that that
(11:43):
makes sense. But we have agiant asset that can quench this entire thing
into a commercial. And her nameis kil Devers. Yeah. See that's
the problem. This guy has KilleDevers on speed dial. You ussell speed
dial university. Yeah, and look, all I can say is this,
(12:03):
Carol Denvers could find this guy intwo point five seconds and dispose of him
in a minute. But let's justforget about this guy for a second.
Right, Carl Devers can move fasterthan life. Right. Yeah, she's
she's she's so far out there thatwhen I Black Middle called her, she
said, I'm out so far thatI'm helping other planets doing other things.
(12:26):
Why does it take her thirty yearsto find these guys a planet? M
what is she doing? I youknow that this one question makes me want
to see what happens in Marvels becauseit does no explanation of something so direly
important that she just forgot the mainthing that she left on Earth for thirty
(12:48):
years. Because this is not onlya nick theory job, this is a
Captain Marvel job. Because this guy'sties directly back to Captain Marvel. Well,
I have a top about that.Not just let me say something,
not just Captain Marroll. Here's theelephant in the room. And it's one
of the things that people site whenthey say they didn't like it. This
(13:09):
could have been solved, like you'resaying, with Captain Marvel, but with
the Avengers. Yes, and thereare a lot of avengers. So even
if some of the Avengers are offplanet, there are still some Avengers that
have to be on the planet.Where were they where Falcon? Yeah,
Falcon look like like this whole thing, Like, let's go back by the
(13:31):
first episode and take where this wholething spires out of control with the bombing
in Russia. Okay, right,you put Sam Wilson in Nos, South
America in there, this whole thingends you put spot him in there,
and you can tell that he's ascrull. He's a scrull. Okay,
let's let's get them. And thenand then this all ends up as a
(13:54):
commercial. But and again the sticktheoring with with more assets than anyone that
we we know out there. Hehas. He had no problem calling the
Avengers before, he begged people tocome together. So now why all of
a sudden went through world World Worththree is about to go down. He
says, Oh, it's personal.I gotta do this myself. Why why
(14:16):
because technically this is worse than thestories because there's there's one point one million
scrawls out there. This is globaldestabilization on the f degree. So why
wouldn't you get all the help thatyou can can muster up? And just
says, oh, this is personal. There's something too much holes and like
(14:41):
I don't know, like if ifthey let things out to make theory the
main star and him and I havingto him do most of the stuff,
it would make sense. But throughoutmost of the series, it says everyone
saying, Yo, you're old,get out, you can't do anything.
Get out. Well, I thinkthat there have been times throughout the history
(15:03):
of some of the comics where youknow, there has been questions, you
know, why haven't they brought inthis character that character? You know,
And part of the issue is that, you know, if you always solve
it with your most powerful ones,then there is no story, right,
(15:24):
So there is that part of itthat you lose any aspect of a story
if you always bring in Superman orMarvel or anything like that. There's that
part of it. Well, Ialso go with the do you always bring
the nuclear bomb? We have wehave particular bombs. Do we bring a
(15:52):
nuclear bomb every time there's a situation, No, we don't. So just
because they're there, do you bringthem every freight time this is a situation?
No, Fur, Yeah, itwas. I don't know if I
would say that because it was gonnabe a nucluding war because of this.
It was a nuclear situation. That'sbecause the president was making it that way.
(16:15):
Yeah. Well no, But here'ssomething interesting. Fury said, the
reason he wasn't calling in the bigguns is because this is personal. Yes,
it's the world. It's not justyou, Nick, it's everybody.
You can't be personal, call inthe Avengers or somebody. Now, I
get it. I get it.This was Nick h Yeah. And was
(16:37):
he wrong? Yes, he mighthave been wrong. Yeah, but I
mean I get it. This isthe Furious story. This is the furious
story. You want to tell astory about him, I get it.
Like Spider Man, Well, theSpider Man keeps bringing people in, like
Iron Man. But yeah, butyou're right, it's not supposed to be
an Avenger show. Uh, theAvengers are going to show up an other
(17:00):
things. Captain Marvel, Carol Danversis going to show up in the Marvel
See. Nick could be wrong.Yeah, and and that can be part
of the story that Nick is wrongin not bringing them in. Yeah,
I agree, I agree, yes, but yes, but through that we
get no conclusion because even though Nickis wrong, the scrollser stor on Earth.
(17:22):
But except now the President has hasa kill switch now on them,
and then nothing's been solving again,Captain Marvel still out there in Galaxy nine
doing guten knowls. What what areyou saving and saving people? She's saving
people and stopping wars, and well, like, for example, during the
(17:45):
blip, she mentioned go ahead.She mentioned during the blip that you know,
our world was not the only worldaffected by whitliss, right, so
she was helping other planets because ourswas not the only world. So she
is the She's not just the internationalAvenger, she is the inter universal interstellar
(18:11):
Avenger. So she is helping others. But you know she's not going to
just be there for our planet.She may originally be from our planet,
but her most of her memories comefrom all over. So it's one of
(18:33):
those things where if if if sheis off planet, if she's off world
dealing with other situations, because Ican imagine there are other planets with far
more dire situations than us, havingan extent an extent a million compared to
(18:57):
our five billion. I think sobecause they were trying to start a nuclear
war, right was there and theyfailed? Right now? They failed,
right, But and then the consequencesare the good aliens are going to be
hunted out too. The politicians whoaren't scrolls are going to be killed by
(19:18):
people who think their scrolls are justanybody who wants to kill someone, that's
blame it on the scroll. OhI thought he was a scroll and you
won't go to jail. Let mesee something. I did not dislike the
show. I love the show.It was good, but these points irked
me and I know bothered a lotof people around the world because what is
it fifty four percent on rod andtomatoes must be Yeah, I think it's
(19:42):
fifty four percent. I'll looked atit today. I think it's fifty four
percent. Oh, and I cantotally understand that. I just I guess
to me, it's like I canimagine things that are worse. Oh yeah,
totally four if he're not coming,because there is something worse out there
in the universe she's dealing with,right, and we already know that the
(20:06):
Marvels are going to be it's goingto be uh kind of a combination of
a comedy and this you know,new Cree that is upset with the the
you know, it's going to makeRonan look like like a pussycat, you
(20:29):
know it just yeah, I can'tknow that. I like that about that.
Well, that's science. But mything is, like I understand all
of that, right, but it'sthirty years And also my thing is is
(20:52):
that the scroll here, let's mewant for a second that the Marvel is
a cree part cree right, thesegirls are higher on Earth because they lost
to the Creek, right right.I don't know any kind of the model
would feel like you see, youwould feel obbigative to fight people a planet
within a thirty year timeframe because ofyour people getting the people away from their
(21:15):
planet. Like like, like whatI'm looking at is that this this thing
points that kind of marble. Itdoesn't look too good because like she's not
doing anything, like she comes in, comes out comes, in comes out
and says, Okay, I'm I'mdoing things, but we don't get to
(21:37):
see what she's doing. It arbitrary, but I think that she's also doing
more than just that. And inthe in the last episode, when there's
a comment and I realize it's kindof throw away about how you know the
difficulty in finding a non hostile newworld. I mean, when you think
(22:00):
about it, if there is anon hostile new world, and when I'm
thinking non hostile, my first thoughtis, Okay, first we got to
find a planet that is livable thatsomebody else is not already living. And
that's actually interesting. If she hadfound them a planet during the blip that
was empty. When the blip whenthey came back, right, there'd be
(22:21):
a problem. So I'm actually thefact that she didn't do it before the
blip is probably is probably a goodthing. We have already found one the
planet that they know when we wason with Spider Man and Iron Man.
All right, yeah, yeah,we already had that one. So we
had and at the planet that thatis how empty and because that's really habitable
(22:45):
that was Look, wasn't he farming? He wasn't then a farming Yes,
yeah, look like a very niceplace, look like a very nice place.
Well it's both yeah, tighten,because there was breathing one on ten
without any protection or anything, andyou had a planet that they knows was
(23:07):
farming on. Okay, well theplanet that thanis was farming on for all
we know that there were other inhabitantson that one. And then the planet
where Spider Man died on it theymay have been breathing, but that did
not look like a very happy littleplanet to me, thank you very much.
Well, like if I'm on thescroll side and I want to live
(23:27):
in my own skin, as theysaid, rather than living as a falsehood
for thirty years I think they takeit. Yeah, I don't know.
That look like the planet that thatthey ended up putting conon too, and
it became it became uninhabitable. Yeah, I'm sorry. It's just like,
(23:51):
if I'm going to go to anew home world, it's got to be
one that I can live on,be happy on. I'm not going to
move to a desolate planet that's gotbroken ships all over the place. That's
not my idea of a good time. So, yeah, you don't put
an earworm in my Yeah, nownot happening. I just I think it's
(24:14):
harder to find new homeworlds than thaneven the comics would lead us to believe.
Then side if you would ever leadus to believe. But also before
we get another bank of this,this is a good place to put off
on if if if one of thescrolls that's taken over someone is around somewhere
(24:37):
for a certain amount of time,we that that scroll new of that planet
before this ever happened. I willget back into that. But yeah,
that's actually a good thought. Wedefinitely will get back to that. We're
going to take a break here onMARKO forty twos Universe. Here on Subspie
Radio and all the other places Imentioned at the beginning. We'll be right
(24:59):
back. Don't go, don't goafter this, uh stand by Houston Wayer
Receiving signals from subspace. You arelistening to Mark Who forty twos Universe.
Welcome back to more of Mark Whoforty twos Universe here on Subspace Radio Network.
(25:23):
I'm your host, Mark Baumgarden.With me today are Vicky Jakobowski and
Zion Kiras, and we are talkingSecret Invasion the TV series. I mean,
we'll talk about the Colomicdo, butwe're talking about the DV series on
Disney Plus. Now. One ofthe interesting plot points about this has to
do with Roady Jim Rhodes and playedby Don Cheatle, and Zion has a
(25:48):
question to ask Vicky and I Zion. Okay, so allviously these sins.
This is a secret invasion, andRody has been revealed to me a scroll.
This I can't even describe it aslike a can of worms. It's
like the can of worms from Dune, the can worms. But so the
(26:11):
Scrolls are looking for a home planet. They can't find one within thirty years,
so they choose to take over Earth. Okay, war Machine has been
a scroll. Great, yeah,he says he if I remember, he
said, he's been it for along time. He can't walk. Yeah,
he's been a very long time.Okay, So if this is we
(26:36):
are we assuming that he's been ascroll before? In Finny war Zion,
guess what, that's what people aresaying. They're seeing that. You know,
doesn't it retcon everything like Iron Manand stuff that that he was in.
And yeah, it's plausible that hewas a scroll. But then it
(26:56):
doesn't make sense, does it it? Why would a scroll do everything that
unless he was trying to perfect hisrole in the world, right, he
might have been doing things that hewould good for the planet Earth so that
he could get to the point wherethey were going to take it over.
I see that, But I knowa lot of people have a problem with
(27:17):
that. But like, let's keepit to the perspective of this show for
a second. Okay, okay,but but I also remember Roady and where
he's been, So these scrolls arelooking for a home planet. We're going
to assume. Let's let's make thisthe one constant that Roady has been a
scroll since if any war or before, if any wary this means scrawl.
(27:40):
Roady went onto the planet with amom with Thinos, right, Yeah,
therefore Roady knows about Scroll. Roadyknows about the uninhabited planet that we just
mentioned prior to the break. Yeah, so Scroll only knows about Bill that
(28:02):
planet. But do we know itwas uninhabited? We happen we only see
the little piece with Fanos in it. We can't that it's uninhabited. Yeah,
zig and you know how it happenednow, the script said, so
yes, oh, I all right, but yeah it is. It's kind
(28:29):
of odd, like like like Iunderstand that, like you that it's a
secret evasion and you have to havethe that Avenger was a scroll, right,
but you gotta make it fit becausenow like like it now you're now
you're forcing everyone to rewind and rewindand rewind and said this, We have
no actual hate basis of when hewas actually a scroll, just that he's
(28:51):
been there for a long time.Now you have to question if this girl
has been in contact with all theother scrolls, because he's in contact with
the head, the head super Scroll. And we are still everything that we
just said about about infinity of Warrenssuch why didn't he tell them about this.
(29:12):
It's it's like I do. Idon't like to use the word plot
hole a lot. Usually it's justbad writing, but this I feel like
it's actually a blot hole, atleast in a continuity sense. Okay,
well, there's a couple of waysyou can look at that. You can
(29:33):
say that he couldn't walk because he'sbeen a scroll since the end of Civil
War ward, or he couldn't walkbecause he's been a scroll for a couple
of years and he's been trapped inthat thing. And if you don't use
your legs, your your muscle's atrophy. And so it could have only been
(29:55):
a couple of years and not nineor ten, And so either could have
been true. Did none Did noneof the people who were hostage with the
scrolls that were being impersonated? Didany of them have a blip disappear?
That was right? Right? No, nothing was covered. On what I'm
(30:18):
saying, is it someone should haveyou know, half the public. The
odds are that someone a couple ofthem would have went and there would have
been a problem when they came back. It was half the universe, absolutely
theoretically, But I will also saythat we do not know that the planet
he was on was uninhabited. Allwe see, a Thano says, was
(30:41):
his land that he was farming.I could, yes, because he couldn't
paid a farm in Fallon, ina town near me, a town that
is inhabited, and it has afew thousand people in it, not that,
and it's it's the whole the wholeplanet Earth is inhabited. But if
(31:04):
you went to this one farm,it would look like that's the only people
that live on this entire planet.That planet. If you remember, and
if any were, there was thatscene where they knows a crush on crush
the moon and threw it at them. Do you remember that that planet where
(31:30):
where where he was talking with doctorStrengths and and you've seen your home,
yes, and it was beautiful rememberthat scene? Yeah? Yeah, that
that planet, that planet is notthe same as the one that he's on
he's farming on. That's a completelydifferent planet. I do see what Vicky's
(31:52):
saying, because if you think aboutit, fanously have just terraformed that section
of the planet. There could bea wasteland everywhere, but he made he
terraformed where he was going to live. Yes, I'm reaching, but yeah,
well I see where it could eitherbe a plot hole or it may
(32:12):
not be. It just the problemis that it kind of depends on how
you read it. Okay, Andbecause I've been you know, like Mark,
I've been reading comic books, possiblyway too long, there have been
way too many so called plot holesand comic books and and and you know,
(32:35):
sometimes I resolve them with with whatwe call the the Dallas trick,
where you know, you wake upthe next morning and Bobby's in the shower,
no prize, just marvel, noprize, and solve the day exactly,
so you know, absolutely do sometimesthey have these these tricks that you
go really, of course they do. And for some of us it's like,
(33:00):
no, I can see that,because there are times I've read the
plot holes and I can't reconcile it. There are other times, Nope,
I can see that. So Ican see both sides of it, and
I can completely understand why some peopleare like, Nope, I don't like
this. I don't I don't getit, I don't feel it. For
(33:21):
me, it wasn't a big plothole because this was for me, this
was a story about Nick Fury andhow he was dealing with things and how
he was going to deal with itwithout the Avengers, because you can't always
even though, in all honesty,there are so many Avengers. I mean,
my marvels Ypipedia is so thick.Yeah, it's not just a core
(33:45):
of seven people. It's a lotof people. There's a few hundred of
them. Yeah, you know what'shonest. What's interesting. Before we did
the show, before Zion opened hismouth, I had no problem with this
story. I had nothing to say. I was just gonna say, Oh,
that's good. Zion is bringing thesethings out in my head, they're
(34:07):
like, oh, I was thinkingabout that. I guess I didn't like
that. This is coming across likea crucification here. I'm going to settle
down. There are good things inhere. Look like for example, like
I was, actually, guys,why did you guys think about the super
(34:27):
scrolls? Oh? I love that. That was a nice idea because when
you think about it, it continuesthat arc because throughout the history of the
Avengers, going all the way backto Captain America, this idea of creating
a super soldier, which actually hasbeen a concept going back to at least
(34:52):
World War two, possibly World WarOne. I don't know. For sure,
but I do know for sure therewas a concept by both the al
and the access to create super soldiersin the real world, that the idea
of creating super soldiers in the Marveluniverse was a real thing. And so
(35:14):
of course you would want to thentake these super soldier blood, and you
would want to take the blood ofany of these Avengers and any powers that
they have, because that's actually aconcept that goes back to ancient times,
that our power is within our blood. And you know he took it without
asking, exactly, without asking heboundaries. Oh, yes, we had
(35:39):
a motive to do it, andyes it was for the world. It's
a you know, it's an ethicalbut ethically it's wrong what he did.
Yes, I can see him.I can see him trying to save the
world with it just in case asa problem, kind of like Batman,
kind of like Batman has to Kryptonitejust in case, yes, and goes
(36:00):
bad. So I see what NickFury did, the same thing as Batman.
He has the harvest just in case. No, absolutely, no,
I agree with you. Absolutely thisis and this is the side of this
is the spy side of Nick Fury. Yes, that's always a little questionable.
(36:22):
You know, same with Olivia Coleman'scharacter of Sonja. You know,
when you're in the world of whenyou're in the spy world, you are
always one foot in questionable. Yeah, you have to be. You cannot
always be in the light because theworld does not always operate in the light.
(36:46):
And I'm not saying what they're doingis correct, but the shady side
of that is concerning. And thefact that as a back pocket trump card
he created these vials and he hadthese things collected is concerning. But at
(37:12):
the same time, it's a littlecool watching that final fight scene and seeing
this happen because it's very interesting andnow we have Gaya and we have this
super soldier super scroll that Olivia Culmanand m I six is going to use,
(37:37):
which is both cool and oh my, you know bringing up you brought
up the fight in the last episodebetween Gravic and Guya. Wait, so
she's diskies as they Fury right,Yes, Okay, episode five, when
he's walking out of the cemetery withthe vial, he's talking to someone.
(38:00):
I totally knew it was Gaya.And when episode six happened and Nick Fury
was like coughing and dying of theI knew it that did that was I've
been a lot of I don't know, did you guys think that or did
you I didn't think it was him. I did not think it was him.
Say, I knew something had tobe wrong because either it was going
(38:24):
to be him and it was goingto empower him somehow, like it was
going to captain America him, orit had to be like Guya or actually
I thought maybe it was going tosecretly be Talus and he wasn't really dead
he came from so it was kindof it had to be, you know,
(38:47):
something like that. It couldn't bethis that, it couldn't be this
easy. Yeah, So I knewthat there was there was something there.
There had to be a reveal.I did think that there was a possibility,
yeah, that Nick Fury was gonna, you know, suddenly come with
(39:10):
super powers or something. But no, it's funny that I totally saw an
hat coming at the episode five thateven has a wait for episode six to
see him walking looking like he wasdying. And I didn't need that.
I knew it he wasn't dying.Can I ask a question about GUYO?
Yeah? Ahead, Yeah, Sothe fight was cool. I not lie.
(39:35):
I enjoyed it, but then Ithought about it, and I swear
I don't like thinking sometimes because likeit's us a suspend disbelief. Yeah,
we have the Harvest. No,I totally get that, because we live
in the Marvel Age, and sowe have the Harvest, which I personally
(39:57):
think you should have been put inlike the second episode, but really that
out of way. Let's look atthe harvest for a second. So the
Harvest was given to Gaya, whoalso became a super Scrull who now has
Ghost Captain America, Cordis Glade,Thanos, Thanos, Outrider, Frosts by
Midnight, Captain Marvel, Abomination,Mantis Call, Obsidian, Drags, cord
(40:22):
Ebony, Ma Frost, Beast,Lpe, Shitari, Valkyrie, stor Go,
Mora, Floral, and Colossus,which I think is group and win.
I sold you. That's one,two, three, that's at least
fifteen in one. Why do weneed anyone else? Wasn't this super Skrull
at least supposed to have the Fantasticfourst powers? You see, that's my
(40:46):
problem. But the Fantastic Four hasn'tbeen recconed into the Marvel world yet,
so we're still not question that matterbecause they were simple powers. Rock fist
rock rocks don't fist, just goin visible. Yeah, But like my
thing is like she's she's a SwissArmy knife. Different movie, and like
(41:15):
she's not on a Swiss I meanknife, but she knows exactly how to
use everyone's power, Like like sheknew immediately how how to change their personality
with with with the Mantis stuff,I'm on the out of the way because
they had the memory crap. Butlike my thing is that, like if
if we have this all around SwissArmy knife working for the planet, I
(41:38):
mean, I just saw King getbeat by ant Man, What what do
I have to worry about? Yeah, well I think that it's it's something
that well, I think King gotbeat because of arrogance. Arrogance oftentimes gets
beat because they always think they can'tbeat eat and then they make mistakes.
(42:02):
But with her her purpose and herI'm gonna say her training by her father
and even her training by Nick Furyperhaps made her better than than Graviic.
Absolutely, But like my thing isis looking towards the future, like like
(42:29):
if we have had this character andI don't have to bring out Spider Man
because this ship is just going tobring out the Hawk Plus Store and call
it a day. So then becomesher. Yes, it is this and
like this is where like again Idon't like thinking we have Captain Marvel and
(42:50):
again this will this whole thing weuse around Captain Marvel, and I feel
like it revels less around Captain Marveland more of the misunderstanding of their version
of Captain Marble because we have onthe Marvel she has super strength and superspeediing
and and and your ability because shewas infused with the cream. Right,
But she's only been able to flyand do those confusion bolts because she got
(43:15):
God got the power from the InfiniStone. The Finnis Store has nothing to
do with the DNA. So whywhy does the Hardness transfer the the Finish
Stone power to the super scroll ItIt makes no sense except that you could
(43:38):
say, because I've seen this inin other stories, not necessarily kept a
Marvel, but that the shall wesay, the magic from the stone changed
for DNA? Okay, okay,I buy that, but makes it transferable?
(44:00):
Feel like again, If that's thecase, then why seel like my
whole thing is that if we couldtransfer Captain Marvel, why do we need
Captain Marvel? Why can we getanother Captain Marvel? Because because guy eventually
is going to go to another planet, so we still need the Avengers on
our planet. No, I am, I thought like tiring for that,
(44:22):
because like, look at that,we haven't the Harvest right now, we
have Captain Marvel with your name.We could actually make another Captain Marvel,
like how we did with Captain America. Yeah, why why why are we
not doing that? Why why isthat not a thing yet? See?
Actually that's a good point. Theycould have taken uh Steve Rogers blood at
(44:44):
anytime and recreate the super serium,but they weren't sure it was going to
be successful. Well okay, that'strue, but it was. It was.
But this was so successful that theyhit it and freaking Russia under a
stone that's not even real and theydidn't know it was going to be successful
(45:07):
until it was. Well yeah,but spies. But you know, the
governments do things you know are questionable, and they may have tried to see
if it worked. You know,Shields could have done that. They could
have took some test subjects and tried. From a writer's standpoint, I find
(45:27):
it interesting that they didn't add SpiderMan here. Yeah. I find sons
or sons a pain in the butt. Yea. Yeah, to Holland didn't
want to do another. I mean, you're gonna get to Holland to do
(45:50):
another movie. Is barely doing fourthe fourth movie. As far as I
know, he want to do more. I don't know, but now,
like you're gonna have to recast SpiderMan at some point. Maybe I think
that's that's what they're happened with withtheir version of Secret Wars. Yes,
(46:12):
yeah, that's another subject though.Yeah that's another TV show or a movie.
Yeah yeah, speaking of which,I feel like this would be better
as a movie because like it's sincelike it since I had the knowledge of
the comic book. I feel likeit's kind of been taking because when you
(46:34):
go into a secret invasion, it'slike, up front, you know what
this is about, your your yoursuperheroes are scrolls. Yeah, but this
is a superhero with scrolls but nosuperheroes. So I it like it should
have been a kin to like CivilWar. Yeah, it's counted as a
(46:58):
count of America movie, but isnot a Captain America movie, but it's
sent it around Captain America. Yeah, this one would have worked as a
movie. If they wanted to doa TV series, it should have been
thirteen episodes with superheroes like the comic. The fact that it was done,
because if you think about it,the episodes weren't that long. You know,
it was like three and a halfhours for the whole story, six
(47:21):
spot three and a half hours.You could have cut some of it out
and released in the theaters and Idon't know if it would have sold,
but yeah, it could. Iam glad you brought that up because on
what the previous shows that we hadhad what nine episodes or so, right,
and they said that we're going tocut down the episode, but some
of them were six episodes that werethey were like an hour long. Yeah
(47:43):
right right, But the whole pointof them cutting down what to give more
time. Correct. If that's thecase, then why are you only getting
two episodes that are an hour,another episode that's forty five minutes, and
then the other rest episodes are thirtyminutes? Yeah? I did. Did
(48:06):
you guys know that Miss Marvel wason ABC? Really? Yeah? And
fact that it was aision. Yeah, because it's interesting because those episodes don't
fit into a time slot. SoI know that the Sunday that we just
passed the day were recording it,So the Sunday just passed for people listening,
(48:28):
they had a promotional video kind ofthing to fill the time talking about
the Marvels. Yes, so,but yeah, I don't see why this
at Marvel is not making a star. Trek is doing it too. They're
not making it a set amount oftimes, so if it does, if
they want to put it somewhere else, it would fit right, just the
(48:52):
piccadillo of mine. I don't know. Well, I think that the concept
of set times is you know,the quote unquote TV times is becoming a
thing of the past. That's true. That's true. The streaming times are
(49:12):
are winning where okay, well,you know what, this story is going
to take an hour and a half. Regardless of how long it's going to
take, you know, timeslots justaren't the same anymore. That's true,
And so if they want to haveit on quote unquote regular TV, they're
going to find a way to makeit fit without necessarily cutting, because if
(49:36):
you cut the story, that's nolonger the cool thing to do, because
you know, it used to beyou know, if you saw a movie
on on TV, it was likecut for formatting and I don't remember what
the word was, but you know, language or you know, or broadcasting
rules, Yes, something silly likethat. And the streamings are winning.
(50:02):
And because of that, you know, they're they're now making it fit the
story not the time slot. Yeah, yes, I see that, And
really I don't have problems with it, except for what Zion was saying,
because it should have been longer.If they were going to do it at
(50:22):
all, there shouldn't have been thirtyfive minutes. This could have even been
a quote unquote streaming movie. Yeah, that's what we're saying. It could
have been a movie. Could havebeen a streaming movie, not necessarily a
theatrical release movie like does Adam SandlerNetflix movies. Yeah, compare the two.
(50:44):
But anyway, and I think thatI agree with you guys that watching
it over the time it was tooshort. Now we actually just binge watched
it over the course of two nights, and for me it was like,
Okay, these episodes are way tooshort because when I think about so many
(51:07):
of the other shows we watched,whether it was MCU or Star Wars or
anything like that. Most of themare longer. Most of them are forty
five minutes too, closer to anhour and a half. And that was
worth that felt binge able, Yes, but they're thirty minutes. It's not
a binge. It's it's you know, that's a sitcom. This was not
(51:31):
a sitcom. This would have beena really good TV movie and it would
have been a good segue into otherthings like the Marvels and other things,
and they could have done that.That might have been my only critique.
I didn't have a problem with thestorylines. But that's because I'm fine with
(51:55):
it because I can, in mymind fill in the blanks. I can
my mind say, well, butthis could have happened, and that could
happen, because I've had the comicbooks do that to me over the years,
and I've spent my lifetime filling insaid blanks. You know, I
also can respect no. No,don't go to no. No. We've
(52:16):
lived our lives. No, Okay, we have to go into this afterwards.
Okay, folks, we're gonna stophere. If you're listening on Subspace
Radio Network, we're gonna have totake good bye to you, but please
go to the Mark Who forty twosUniverse podcast over all the powercast platforms and
Florida Geek Scene and Decaf Radio everywhereand listen. We're going to keep this
(52:42):
conversation going on this podcast, thethe Mark Whup, not just Mark Who
forty two Universe because that's the shortone that's based on this episode. We
want the extended period, the MarkWho forty tis Universe podcast, where we
will talk to you more about SecretInvasion. But for those Subspace Radio,
so long and we'll be right backif you're not. Thanks for listening to
(53:10):
Mark Up forty twos Universe featuring MarkBoundgarden, Ifwarto mfryor Icky Chakobowski and Zion
Curos. This show was produced anddirected by Mark Boundgarden. If you'd like
to get in touch with us,go to our Facebook page or email us
at Markup forty two s dot Universeat gmail dot com. Our radio show
(53:34):
airs weekly on Subspace Radio Network atwww dot Subspace dot Radio and an iHeartRadio.
You can listen to our old showsat our website, MARKO forty two
dot com and many podcast platforms suchas iTunes, Audible, and Pandora.
And if you want to hear showsdating back to twenty twelve with over one
(53:54):
hundred and fifty celebrity interviews, tryour YouTube page. Marko forty to Marcrew
forty two s Universe copyrighted twenty twentythree. Subspace Day to one Done
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