MarkWHO77 Interviews Andy Sawyers

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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Sir, I'm detecting a subspace message. I'll put it on speakers Subspace dare
to wonder. Hi, this isCindy Morgan, but you probably know me
as Jorian Tron or Lacy Underall andCaddyshack. And you're listening to Mark Up
forty two. Welcome to Mark Upforty twos universe here on Subspace Radio.

(00:56):
I'm your host, Mark Baumgarden.Well, we hope you had a happy
Father's Day for all you fathers outthere, for all you kids, hope.
Yeah, gave your father as agood present. Anyway, I gave
the team a week off, butthat doesn't mean you don't get a new
episode. You totally get a newepisode. Mark Who forty two and The

(01:19):
seventy seven Publications, a British comiccompany, are joining forces and now have
a web interview show on their Theseventy seven Productions YouTube channel where you can
you can watch and listen to interviewswith British comic creators who have some connection

(01:42):
with the seventy seven. This week, we are going to do a simulcast
of an episode that came out abouttwo weeks ago, an interview with Andrew
Sawyers Andrew Sawyers is an artist whodoes some really work. So it's myself,
Mark Baumgarden and Vicki Jacobowski and theseventy seven Publications. Ben Cullis interviewing

(02:08):
Andrew Sawyers. Ben, do youwant to do an introduction? Yeah,
I've had the pleasure of working withAndrew Sayers for three years now. He's
been a store work with us.He's done several strips the moment, he's
going to be completing Silver Jubilee,and he previously did the sell with Bambos
Georgio. He's a go to guy, absolutely full of energy, full of

(02:29):
ideas, unique drawing style. He'llbe showing us some of his work later
and he's just a fabulous, fabulousperson as well. Really looking forward to
chatting to him tonight. Well,we're looking forward to chatting to him too,
and we're letting the audience I hope. Do you believe you're looking forward
to it to see and hear whatAndrew has to see. And now let's
introduce the man himself, Andrew Swayer. Welcome, Andy, how are you

(02:54):
doing today? Very well? Thankyou very well, Sunshine in busy at
the drawing board. I've got aday off and not long back from the
Lawless. So yeah, in goodspirits and thank you for having me.
You're welcome. You know you justbrought up Lawless. Let's talk lawless.
How did it go? In aword, absolutely excellent. It's very well

(03:17):
organized, absolutely fantastic staffing and theattendees are probably some of the best in
the UK. They're real die hardenthusiasts, not just the British comics but
the whole comics in general. It'sa great venue. Bristol's a lovely location

(03:38):
and despite being very busy, it'sa it's a real tough one because you've
got to have your work head on, but it was it's still a highly
enjoyable event to do. So,Andrew, we started with that question,
but really we should have started withthe question we ask everybody at the beginning
of Mark Who's seventy seven? Itis a question that's probably the hardest question.

(04:00):
We're going to ask you. Whois Andrew Sawyers? Um? Andy
Sawyers? Me is just a regularguy who. I think it all comes
back to two thousand and eight dto coin a phrase. Um. I
remember very specifically in nineteen eighty oneProp Two three to six and as soon

(04:21):
as I saw that Bolland cover theMcMahon interiors, like all children, I
was already drawing. But it inspiredme on that sort of descent into comics.
And then obviously, you know,despite sort of ducking out for twenty
five years, which is a longstory. Um, yeah, I've always

(04:44):
sort of been into two thousand andeight D. But yeah, I'm a
sort of a part time illustrator,um and you know, a family man,
and just just really enjoyed being ableto contribute to the medium. Um.
I think that probably sort of sumsme up pretty well. I actually

(05:04):
love to draw. It's great thatI've been able to turn it into a
vocation to a degree, but Iwould draw or illustrate for pleasure regardless.
It's very very cathartic, and Ienjoyed the fact it brings other people rewards
whatever you do. It's mind blowingto see people take such great enjoyment from

(05:30):
it, and I feel very lucky, you know. Obviously the seventy seven
we've been a huge part of that, and it's an incredible, credible opportunity.
It's been non stop for the lastthree years since I returned to art,
to illustrating what cammis did you readwhile growing up predominantly two thousand But

(05:51):
then this is where he gets interesting, is because I was already picking up
before the brit British invasion happened.I could see the European influence on two
thousand a D artists, so sortof like the whole I'm probably going to
pronounce this wrong, but the bandDessine kind of thing, heavy metal or

(06:15):
metal Hurland, you could see thatback influencing two thousand a D. And
then I can also see a lotof American artists. They weren't lifting directly
from two thousand a D, butyou could see American comics getting darker,
and I think, particularly around thelatter years of senior school, stuff like

(06:38):
The Killing Joke came out, TheWatchman and Frank Miller's Dark Knight, and
that's when I really started to sortof pay attention to American comics. So
between that and the British invasion,but for me, it was really things
like Daredevil, Batman, some weirdstuff. I know he's a European artist,

(07:00):
but grew By says you love grewI used to I used to collect
that. Oh yeah, And thensort of jumping off that because it was
syndicated Bill Watterson's Calvin and Hobbs.Um, and then you start to explore
the great you know that your yourKerby's your dipcos and then my influences cited

(07:20):
kirbyan dipto, so you go backto that classic stuff. Um, anything
by Chris Clairmont Alan David Alds isone of our own. But Chris Claimont
and Alan Davis together are just indefeatable. M Barry windsor Smith anything like that.
And yeah, I'll sort of prettymuch read anything if it's well written

(07:43):
and well drawn. I'm there,I tell you. I've got to say
this though, and this is wasprecipitated my departure from art and comics.
That whole ear the early image wizardstuff. Um yeah, it killed it
for um, and I took areal big step back from comics. Um
yeah, Ricky, Well you alreadybrought up um, Calvin and Hobbes.

(08:11):
And as someone who also really enjoyedthat, being a former bad child myself,
I kind of feel um that wehave a few similar influences as a
retired headbanger and um punker myself.Um, I know it's hard to believe
that now that I'm um, butyou know what, what was it that

(08:37):
something? I mean, I understandit, but why would something like you
know, from The Killing Joe toCalvin and Hobbes. How does that connection
get met? What was it thatreally kind of spoke to you? Um?
So my initial introduction to things likeCalvin Hobbs was whilst I was probably

(08:58):
not as much of a religious readeras a lot of my contemporaries and people
I work with in the UK,we think had things like Dandy Sorry Dandy,
the Beano, Wizzard and hips andstuff like that. So I got
cartooning and cartooning is massively part ofBritish culture, newspapers, it was,

(09:18):
It's been heavy used in advertising,and I think my immediate connection to Calvin
Hobbes was this was cartooning at itsabsolute pinnacle. Whilst they were calling in
a cartoon style, much like AlanDavis. If you ask Bill Watterson to
draw something, he can draw it. He can draw a car and you

(09:39):
just instantly go, that's the bestcar. If he draws a dinosaur,
it's the best dinosaur. And therewas there was things like F fourteen Tomcats
in it, so whilst Calvin asa character is actually quite adults. You
know, some of the things hesaid quite profound. There was lots to

(10:01):
sort of draw in a young mind, you know. I mean, there
was the whole thing when he theyused to do stories where he was a
detective but it turned out he hadn'tdone his homework and he'd been put in
detention or something. It just appealedto my sense of humor. Can I
ask you, mate, where didyou when did you find Carbin and Hobbs,

(10:22):
Because I got to be honest withyou, that passed me by completely.
Was it a newspaper you were readingor your parents? I'm not embarrassed
to say, but like a lotof grandparents, they were quite middle class
and it was syndicated in the DailyExpress. Yeah. I didn't even know
that, but I didn't. Yeah, it was probably the the crowning Glory,

(10:48):
the only good thing the Daily Express. You're you're you're hitting, you're
hitting the nail on the head.There not about the politics of a newspaper,
but the purpose and function that thefunnies have. And I've always had
so peanuts, you know, CharlieBrown, Trudeau, you Doansbury whatever we
have Steve Bell's IF in this countryand it's biting satire. But as a

(11:09):
kid, I remember coming across thosewhen I was ten eleven years old,
not understanding their say all the politics, but really liking the drawings and the
caricatures, you know. So I'mglad you mention Steve Bells IF is absolutely
magical. And I was very luckymy history teacher and my geography teacher were
They were very young teachers, andI think they saw the drawings I used

(11:31):
to hand in essays, and theywould have almost I had not seen Steve
Bell, but I used to doalmost little political characters. I remember doing
an essay on the Gaza Strip andall the stuff that fifties and I drew
on the maps. There was alllike American generals and probably not quite correct

(11:52):
Saudi Arabians and things like that.And my geography and history teacher that they
were blown away because they were like, if you the Observer, which was
a very intelligent, world written newspaper, I said no, and they showed
me Steve Bell's stuff. I'm gladBen mentioned that because he's if you haven't
checked him out, check out.It's incredible stuff. And I think you

(12:13):
can buy it collectively, but Imean, yeah, and the referencing you
get from reading those stories, itcertainly gives you the names and the characters.
So we'd have Casper Weinberger, youknow what I mean. I don't
know clearly it was understanding he waseither secret of State for Defense or I
think he was secretary. Was heSecretary of Defense? Um? I think
so, Oh my gosh, notsure. You know, before you before

(12:37):
you start reading the front pages ofthe newspaper as a kid, you're you're
trolling the you're trolling the back page. Yeah, definitely, just just quickly
though going but just just to sortof wrap up Calvin. We were also
very lucky, and this is somethingthat was two things that were really instrumental
into me getting into sort of likethe bigger world of comics. Was said
Sunday newspaper had a Sunday edition andit came with a very glossy magazine with

(13:01):
the production value I don't think wouldbe affordable these days to give it away.
And you used to get full colorone sheet Calvin and Hobbs specials in
the back. Yeah, but itwas better. Yet, whoever their art
editor was deserves a Medal because despitethe newspaper's political viewpoint, they would run

(13:24):
articles with people like Alan Moore andDave Gibbons. These were sixteen page The
photographers went round to their studios,see them in their houses. You've got
to see stuff on the drawing boards, and I remember they did the same
for a lot of films, andyou've got to seem sort of like all
the design work and stuff. Weused to collect these as children, and

(13:46):
I wish I still had them becauseit's nine entire issue dedicated to Jim Henson's
Dark Crystal. They did the DickTrace. It was all there. You
know, to be around your grandparentshouse on a Sunday, but then to
get front loaded with this stuff thatIt's not like television where oh there's an

(14:09):
afternoon special on the making of oryou can go on YouTube and see it
all. These were very specific windowsin time and yeah, I'll treasure those
forever. I mean, that's right, those those opportunities. You've got to
pour over some pictures and think notjust how has it done, you'd do
it yourself, and how to goat doing it because it's not moving,
it's not going to disappear after fiveminutes, and and it kind of it

(14:31):
impounds on me is the fact thatwe're in a we're in a society now
where fewer and fewer newspaper or newsprintopportunities exist for this stuff to be disseminated.
However, it is across any anykind of you know, type of
newspaper. But we're losing all ofour make you guys in the States,
but we're losing our community newspapers.You know that we are too. Yeah,

(14:52):
but there's a handful of major companiesthat own most of the newspapers in
the United States. And I've nownoticed over the last twenty years, the
local newspaper has gotten thinner and thinnerand thinner. I don't even know if
you could do a birdcage with itanymore. And but that's so true when
I think about some of the thingsthat I saw growing up in the seventies

(15:15):
and the eighties, and the differentquality of work and the different things that
inspired me. That the only reasonmy son got exposed to that was because
I gave him stuff, or Ihad it around the house, or you
know. It's funny. I wasjust thinking, as you were describing it,
the only thing I get that istangible, that is that detailed or

(15:41):
anything else. There's a quarterly magazinethat comes out for the D twenty three
Club, which is a Disney club, and it is a thick book.
It is gorgeous. It is filledwith pictures and drawings, and you don't
see that quality anymore. So howare the ex generation supposed to be inspired

(16:03):
if if it's not out there?You know, I have been seen my
massive collection of movies. Um,but that's one thing, and you're right,
it's fleeting you watch it. Butthen I like to get we call
them in the States, um coffeebooks, coffee table books. And I've
got books on the art of avariety of movies and shows because it shows

(16:26):
the concept art like of Star Warsand Star Trek and all these things that
you just don't get today. Andum, um, I am not an
artist. Thank god, my sonhas my has talent. I have zero,
um, And it just I'm sothankful that I was able to expose

(16:48):
them because there's nothing out there,you know, And if we didn't have
things like the seventy seven, umwith these uh, because my son's stealing
my copies. Um, there's anotherwhole there's another whole genre that's just totally
disappeared as well. The music press. Yes, you know there was.
There were four newspaper style periodicals inthe UK, Melody Maker, Sounds,

(17:12):
Enemy and Andy. I forgot thefourth one. Maybe probably you'll you'll recall
them, but you know these wereproper, proper newspaper size things, and
they came out weekly and they wouldall have strips in and obviously artists doing
feature work on it. I meanAndy does album art and stuff. But
you know, people have to startsomewhere, I don't they. I mean
Alamore started off in Sounds I thinkwith your name of I can't remember the

(17:34):
name of the cat, the LittleCat, cartoon Cat Maxwell, the Cat.
I believe it was right. Soundwas very generous and kind to the
comic community. In fact, itwas funny where comics in the UK would
turn up. Ben might know this, And I remember arguing, my dad's
going, please go to the newspapershop on a Sunday and he goes,

(17:57):
oh, I'm not getting that newspaper. But it had Glenn Fabruary. Both
were written by Pat Mills, Ibelieve, or one was written by Pat
Mills. But Scatha and the BrendanMcCarthy. I think Pete Milligan wrote the
other one. Ben, do youremember that? Yeah? Yeah, that
sounds used to do a lot forcomics, particularly if it was relevant or

(18:21):
pertinent to sort of music fans,not just because the comics were a really
big thing in the in the UKduring the nineteen eighties. They were just
actually couldn't you were tripping over thedamn things. It was literally the comics
and that kind of branch out,didn't we or blended hybrid of for example,
music with music with comic which wasDeadline Yeah yeah, which was pretty

(18:47):
much moving that thing on. Itfeatured bands, it featured pretty cool kind
of you know, part of fashionitems as well, but had a backbone
of of of of art by thenames that Andy has just mentioned. See
that just fits in with what Igrew up with in the eighties. I
was living in Hawaii and our favoritecomic book shop was called Jellies, and

(19:08):
it had everything. It had uhLPs, It had comic books, it
had strange films. I got myfirst copy of Rocky Horror Picture Show in
Korean from there. It just itwas kind of like we were all like

(19:29):
minded people and even if we didn'tall like the exact same genre. We
we kind of had kindred spirits andit just made it so, you know,
it made sense. It was alltogether because I'm a huge lover of
music and movies and comic books andbooks, and to me, it all

(19:49):
fits. I don't see that crossoveras often anymore. And I feel like
I was amazed to see Andy yourLP the artwork, because I feel like
that is a lost art. Well, right, so there's there's, there's.
Everything you've said. The story behindall of those is basically encapsulated and

(20:11):
what you've said. So the latestone, which has been plastered all over
New York and as he tours throughthe East Coast, I know he's done
Massachusetts. That's not quite East Coast, but I know he's Pennsylvania. But
Paris Mayhew, Paris Mayhew for oneof the founding members of the Chromax,

(20:32):
the Age of Quarrel album with theBig Nuclear Explosion Harley Flanagan, who was
in the press recently for a verynasty fight at a New York Hardpool show.
But anyway, Paris was one ofthe founding members of the Chromax,
and i'd come back to artwork.I don't think i'd even been in the
seventy seven and like a lot ofpeople on social media, instead of adding

(20:56):
family members, I just went forall my favorite music heroes, and I
quietly sat on the sidelines because Parishas got some pretty strict rules. If
you miss about you'll find out.And it turns out the whole New York
hard scene were reading those very starkblack and white two thousand and eighty strips

(21:18):
and that was and that was Sothat was nineteen eighty two. That was
roughly around the same year. Iwas a lot younger than Paris, but
um or not much younger than him, but he was like fifteen at the
time and I was like five.And that's a distance. That's that's a
distance. But so whilst they're sortof developing their hardcore punk bands. They

(21:40):
you will see them in Judge Death, Nemesis t shirts, Dread t shirts.
And his words to me was yourstuff like that two thousand and eighty
stuff that we used to get backin the day. I want my album
artwork to have that vibe. Yeah. So I've got to give Paris props
because he's just finished direct in theCity of the Dead with Jeffrey D.

(22:03):
Morgan. It just goes to showhow small the world is. Yeah,
twenty thirty years ago I was holdingthose LPs and you're just like, these
guys are a million miles away,and now it shrinks right down. Yeah,
yeah, it's all into links.We had a previous show Andy with
Mike Collins and we were discussing howduring COVID, the midst of all of

(22:26):
that, we'd actually commissioned him todo how many other strips it is for
the seventy seven, and that he'sforged a really good writing well, a
creative relationship with Michael Powell, whowe would have met last week Lawless.
But you know, probably even tenfifteen years ago, that might not have
happened because there just weren't those opportunities. You had to be introduced. It

(22:48):
was all that kind of thing.And nowadays you get to see experienced people's
work much, you know, notnot easily, but it's just that you
can contact them and there's a kindof all the avenues are open. So
I totally agree with that. I'mglad you mentioned that, Ben, because
this came up on the that thisis Haunted panel is the comics industry had

(23:11):
a glass ceiling. Not my favoritephrase, but positions as writers, artists,
editors. It was dead man's shoesand it was its own insular community,
independent publishing kickstarters. I'm certainly notagainst the phrase independent comics, although

(23:36):
I think people sometimes draw an inferencethat it's a lesser entity. But the
hard book that Ben's put in withhis editorial team and the ground laid by
other independent publishers has completely broken themold and the underground is now becoming the
mainstream. And like Ben said,some of the people that I've been fortunate

(23:57):
to be published alongside in the seventyseven, but other publications, I think
Ben's quite right. Pre lockdown,the pre pandemic, this wouldn't have happened.
So it's an incredible, incredible privilegeand an opportunity, and I think
it's been capitalized on. But it'sbeen very healthy for the comic book industry.

(24:19):
It's bringing comic books back, andI think I'll fly the flag for
the seventy seven here for it's pricetag, that's a lot of comic book
Yes. Really keen on seeing happeningis comics should be cheap, they should
be good quality. But I wouldlike to see the cover price getting cheaper

(24:40):
or as close to the bone youcan take it, so people when they
walk past it, they're like twoninety nine that things are Bible. I'm
going to buy it anyway. We'llbring that kind of mentality back. Well,
we'll have more of this interview withAndrew Sawyers here on Mark Who forty
twos Universe. Right after these Markafter this stand by Houston Layer receiving signals

(25:11):
from subspace. You are listening toMark Who forty twos Universe. We are
now going to continue the Mark Who'sseventy seven, which is an interview with
Mark Who's seventy seven is a jointproduction of the seventy seven Publications and MARKU
forty two s Universe. We've gotour continuing our interview with Andrew Siders.

(25:33):
Now I have to agree with thatbecause I think about even when so when
I was a kid, um uh, comic books at your corner store,
I would buy them on military basis. I grew up military and and um,
you know, they were not quitepennies, but they were cheap and

(25:53):
it was a great easy way toget entertainment for very little money. It
was open to everybody. I thinkthat's one of the things that's nice about
comic books in general is that they'rekind of there for everybody, and there's
something there for everybody. And youknow, my older brother and I.

(26:17):
My younger siblings not so much,but my older brother and I just were
really into, oh, this looksinteresting, this looks interesting, and moving
around a lot, and being allover the country getting access to comic books
that we might not have gotten becausethis is of course before things were global.
But I just I think it wouldbe so nice for some kid to

(26:37):
walk by a new standard, whateverthe heck we call them these days,
and go, oh, I canafford that I've got my allowance in my
pocket, let me go and trysomething new. And I just I wish
that, I hope that this resurgencewere having in comic books and in so

(26:59):
many other things. For as badas the pandemic was, there is a
silver lining to all this. Inoticed it in my day job. I've
noticed in some of my side projectsthat there is this like whole new way
of doing things, this whole newOh we can do this now, or
we can try this now. Peoplesuddenly became open to trying new things.

(27:22):
So I'm just excited because I'm hopingthat twenty twenty three, which I know
we're halfway through, but if itcontinues the way it is, I see
so many good things happening over thehorizon. What we're able to afford to
do because we have really good peoplewho back our creators get the comic off

(27:44):
the ground when we go and wedo in person shows. I did a
charity show at a fundraise a fewweeks ago, and when we do the
shows anyway, basically you're seeing that, you're seeing the people coming by,
you're chatting to them what they like, and we can almost match them now
for various titles. We've got anew one that we're just working on at
the moment. Anyway, for youngerreaders is something I'm planning as well.

(28:07):
Um, but I think when you'rein person you can have that discussion.
We discount our books at that point. Unfortunately, we can't necessarily discount them
at the Kickstarter ending. It's almostlike paying forward. We got a whole
bunch of people who kind of payforward for a whole bunch of other people
come along because you know it's unfortunate, but production costs are only going one
way. And I wish that wecould use comics for pennies, I really

(28:30):
do. But you know the factis that we have a sensibility about us,
which means we want to share things. So we're always doing on our
on our pages and our social mediaopportunities that people can get, you know,
half priced comics, they can getfree digital downloads. You know for
sure that that that that's that's phenomenal. You know, if we need more

(28:52):
companies to have the sensibility that youdo. I mean, not only do
you do this amazing product, butthen you know, you do your best,
You do the kickstarters, you getas much money as you can,
and then you try to work.I'm on the local ballet board here in
Reno, and we do that wherewe give to the Boys and Girls Club

(29:17):
and Big Brothers Big Sisters, whichare two huge American charities. We give
free tickets to expose kids to thearts that might not otherwise get an opportunity.
So it just I love hearing storieslike that, because now, of
course you already know how much Ilove the seventies seven complications. I have

(29:38):
a few of them. I mayhave all of them. Now I've got
them all, but it just Ithink more people need to be exposed to
it, not only the superior productthat you guys do, but just the
artistic side of it, the stories, the the prospects, the I want

(30:02):
to inspire the next generation into goingthat. You know, when when you
and I are long gone, someoneelse will be taking up the mantle of
the seventy seven publications and continuing thisdream. That would be just heavenly.
I mean, from from my pointof view, and this isn't my show,
I get Andy's our guests. Ikind of feel I kind of feel

(30:23):
as a commissioning editor and obviously youknow, meeting meeting new creators and stuff.
It's where we've gone and what we'vegot in the time that we've got
I think really means good things willhappen, you know, in the same
time that we've just been scrabbling around. You know, now we're kind of
I mean, Andy will tell youthat the show he went to, he
knows that the company sponsored it.You know, he was on a panel.

(30:47):
He gets invited shows, you know, opportunities there for all the guys
if they want to be able tokind of maximize on that. We've got
other people who were just like youknow, in for it, doing a
bit of a quiet life, likedoing some writing, ling, some drawing,
and then you wholehearted about it.And and I very much like people
like that. Um yeah, we'reall steering together to try and kind of

(31:08):
you know, just just get outthere as much as we can, if
as much as we can sustain aswell. So I mean Andy would say
as well, I don't know howmany other titles are you working on at
the moment, mate, You've gotyou've got several other projects on it the
good Yes, yeah, I thinkthe thing is is there there's a there's

(31:30):
a two twofold parts of this question. So Ben, I've got to paid
Ben a compliment. We don't buttheads, but I've got to pay massive
respect to Ben. Um he's gota vision and whilst that perhaps doesn't always
align with my vision and I'm abig mouth, and but you need a

(31:56):
strong captive and I think Ben hashas built house that's that's just going to
grow. And I think that probablythe one thing if I ever walked away
from comics would be that I genuinelydo believe Ben and the team that involved
with him have created something that hasan enduring legacy, and I think it'll

(32:17):
be funny. We will look backand go, oh, do you remember
what this used to be? People'sbedrooms? And you know I used to
draw on backs of cardboard. Andand the thing is, I think we
get frustrated and we get impatient becauseyou want everything to happen now. But

(32:38):
when you look at it in avery I don't think we're even three years
yet. The things that have beenachieved, the sheer volume of work is
incredible, and it's it's given peoplethat were perhaps considering walking away from comics
a new lease of life, orthey were in the twilight part of their

(33:00):
careers and then they've suddenly sort ofjust gone, well, these crazy kids,
you know, to hell with it, Let's jump in and you know,
get involved in the party. It'sreignite dear passion for it. Ben
just doesn't stop. Neither does Steveand Joe and Dave and and other people
that have been for you. Youdon't you know, it can tell how

(33:22):
many live exactly how many live sessionsdo you do? Mate? You can
be there night or day. Ilove it. I love it basically being
my messengers at least once a day. I think that's the good thing about
technology. And I've seen a lotof contemporaries and people I really admire.

(33:43):
They put the time in with withthe readers or the people that support them,
and I think it's you just feelduty bound to just give everything back
to them, and if that inspiresthem to start doing it, and if
they, yeah, it's it's good. But in answer to your other question,
I think you're just going to seethis just well, it all comes

(34:08):
back to lawless, it is completelyreignited. I think there's a ground sweld
for all of this coming back,and it's I think it will eventually go
beyond past us. It will justbecome its own thing again. I think
we're going to see a real returnto the to the It will be new

(34:29):
and exciting. But like you said, passing on that legacy to the younger
generation, it will inspire them totake up the mantle. And I think
that's what's vital about what we're doingnow, particularly with the seventy seven.
And yeah, it's exciting times question, how did you two meet and you

(34:50):
end up trying for the seventy seven? Got to pay the compliment to Ben
he'd seen my stuff online off theback of the competition to do with another
podcast. And in true Bin fashion, if he sees something and he wants

(35:12):
it, he'll go and ask.And he literally was, it's um,
is it? D October? Youwere doing? That's right? And you
just said, do you want towork with Bambos And we've got a strip
lined up for issue too. Infact, you originally approached me. I
was meant to do tingling triangles withMCMA and I just couldn't get it done
in time, and he went,don't panic, I've got something else for

(35:37):
you. Being Bambos went onto thecell. So you know, Ben just
was literally, I'm going to putthis guy in print. Ben made it
happen. Bambos is as a legend, isn't he. He's been, He's
got a forty year career behind him. He's done all sorts of horror work.
He's done all sorts of different differenttop top drawer strips and stories.

(35:59):
Yeah, he's he's and he's justan absolute sweetheart. He's a lovely guy.
So um but yeah, no better. So it's all down to Ben.
Um. But that was the otherthing you asked me, what else
am I working on? I've gotstuff coming out for Unit sixty six.
Um, I've got some more musicstuff coming up. Um ravenous for this

(36:24):
is Haunted scation of UM the seventyseven. That's basically yeah. What about
what about for Cowkwood Books? Isit? Um? Yeah, I've got
another cover coming out from them.But I don't know what else is in
the pipelines with those guys, Noyours to say you did do a great

(36:45):
job on um what's that? What'swhat's up? What's our our looping friend?
That the hair hardcore hard Oh well, yes, there's more El Benito.
Um, it's quite a lot ofCalvin and Hobbs in that because it's
quite cartoony. But yeah, thethe rabbits from out of space that everyone

(37:08):
thinks of rabbits, but they're not. They're like a dictatorship from out of
space. But there their plan toconquer the Earth has been yeah, brought
to a hole. That's definitely putup some illustrations there. What we'll do
Andrew at birth and points, We'regoing to put some shads up and I

(37:28):
want to if these guys have seenthe gun toting cigar chew in, Yeah,
it's absolutely brilliant Benito absolutely fantastic,and that's a creation of the character
design is sort of you and obviouslyJoe Heely isn't. Yeah, I think
it's weird, me and the kids, me and my good lady, and

(37:52):
I think we've all I think wejust do it as people. We talk
about our pets, we talk aboutour love of all these weird and one
of full of animals. It's like, at the moment, I think the
big craze is watching videos of KathyBarr's just lounging around in hot water surrounded
by lemons and apples, and Ithink it sort of grew out of all

(38:15):
of that stuff. And then Joewas kind of like, so I want
you to do my rabbit in likea Napoleon costume. I went, what
you really want is your your rabbitin space armor dropping out of a drop
ship. And she saw it andshe was like, we've got to do

(38:38):
a strip. So I was like, okay, and I put something together
and she had sort of plotted itoff the back of a conversation. I
was very fortunate because there's nothing wrongwith being a girl's comic or a comic
aimed at a female audience. Iactually knew what Joe was getting at.

(38:58):
There was just another genre, Britishcomics, and I think in perhaps in
no plan intended in Lou of LouStringer doing something for Pandora. It added
a bit of brevity to what wasquite a heavy emotional comic, proper grown
up, mature stuff in there,and it sort of took the edge off
towards the end. But that itwas great. That's a special book and

(39:22):
to be a part of that waswonderful. But yes, Space the Space
Rabbits will be back, and othercreatures which you'll recognize, but there are
also aliens and a wide range ofdifferent styles of it, not the stars
of strips as well, haven't you. You're given quite a few different genres

(39:43):
to work on. Yeah, Ithink so. My original plan was to
go into like advertising, and ofcourse everyone wants to draw, say Batman,
but if you most failed comic bookartists end up in advertising. So
I was just like, well,I'll just go straight to advertising. So
when I was studying you you tryand embrace a variety of styles where it's

(40:08):
or disciplines, whether it's painting orpencils or whatever, to meet the demands
of advertising. Or illustration, becauseif you're working for a newspaper, for
example, they might we need thewatercolor of something like a landscape, so
that's what you go and do thatday. So I think there's always been

(40:29):
that mentality that you need to bevery flexible and open to to change your
style to fit the brief. Ihave to say that in some of the
variety of scene of your artwork,there is one thing that seems to underline
all of it. You have avery kinetic feel. There's your your images

(40:52):
have a lot of motion to them, or have a lot of you know,
sometimes things can feel very flat,and two D yours feels like there
is a motion to it. Ithink that's part. That's the two thousand
in me. The other part actuallycomes down to my art teacher senior school.

(41:15):
I don't want to see these littlebrushstrokes. I don't want to see
every line get that brush and ifyou're painting the hair, you can always
cut it back afterwards, right acrossthe pain. And I think more so
than ever, I was always awareof it, but since returning to art,

(41:37):
you can really be literally carving awayat the page and then you just
keep working on top of it.Until you get it roughly to where you
want to. I think half thetime the energy comes from the fact that
I haven't actually finished it. Iget bored, and then going back to
the music thing as well. It'sthe punk rocking me. It doesn't be

(41:59):
no perfect it's more about the performance, the energy. I don't think people
are standing there checking to see ifVinnie Stigma's playing in the right key or
hitting the right note. They wantto see him doing all like so whilst
the rest of the band of theband are taking it seriously, You've got
Vinnie in the background messing around andhe's having He's always having fun. So

(42:24):
yeah, it's that hardcore punk attitude. Just just just just it's about the
show, you know, just putthat energy. Yeah yeah, I don't
think there was a dependencies fan,aren't you mate? Yeah? Yeah,
So I don't know what it is. I think I wish I could if

(42:46):
I got if I could get intoa time machine right now, I would
grab Ben and go you need tocome with me back to nineteen eighty seven.
Funny enough, it comes back toto to art. I was at
senior school drawing, and I certainlywasn't in an introvert because I had my
friends, but I wasn't particularly interestedin getting more friends. And this kid

(43:13):
kept bugging me about my artwork andhe said, look, I said,
in the end, I'll just giveyou all this original artwork. And he
gave me a lot of tapes andI said, I don't listen to music.
My parents had music on. I'vegot no interest, in no need
for it. And he's like,You've got to listen to these guys.
And I looked at him and I'mlike, oh, they wear regular clothes
aside from the bandanna. And theyweren't singing about dungeons and dragons. It

(43:37):
was all about gateboarding, which issomething me and Ben connect on just growing
up. And Venice Beach and therea few times I've been once. I
loved it, but South London wasn'tit a million miles away from kind of

(44:00):
like the same problems of urban lifeis it's a unique thing and it comes
downs social injustices and suicidal tendencies.Saying about writing those injustices and I think
they were educationally for me. Itwas about being truthful and you know,

(44:24):
being good to people, taking careof family and yeah, yeah, yeah,
I dug them a lot. Andyeah, and they also I love
the Bandanas. I'm a big suicidalfan. But I think I think that
goes with a lot of the sameculture things that we like, be art,
comics, books, films. I'mnot saying it's about putting them right

(44:45):
the social injustices at least first ofall, recognizing the exist. Yes,
it's a thing for people. Justbecause you may have in your life,
doesn't mean it's not a thing forother people. You know, I think
that your mind, and then yougo, Okay, maybe I do need
to consider that other people have differentexperiences rather than just having this whole single,
single eye direction. You know,there's there's a streak myth, by

(45:07):
the way, guys that and it'sand I don't think and I'm not here
to put anyone down, but there'sthis big myth that Americans don't hold passports
and don't travel. Well, theydon't. They don't need to because they
travel across the country and they're goingto see a lot of different in their
country. Right. Um, youknow, you only have to go on
some in some some states one sideof the states the other, and it's
a completely different world. And Texastakes two days to get through. I've

(45:30):
driven it. Yeah. Yeah,I mean we're very lucky, you know,
we're we're our land mass is quitesmall. We can go to different
countries within a few hundred miles.You know, we're quite fortunate for that.
You can get on a bus,you can drive around Europe for you
know, a few pounds. Youknow, it's not expensive at all.
Um, But I'm not for whatI'm not for one going Oh, you

(45:50):
know, people people who who livein a huge country and no on either
travel around there aren't as aren't asyou know, educated. I don't think
that's that's right at all. ButI think the thing is that's probably because
I've listened to that type of music. I haven't lived on one side of
the country to the other and beento three in three other countries other than
the US, I can say that, you know, it very much helped

(46:15):
shape you know, having lived inwhat we call the original thirteen colonies and
then moving across the country, movingto the last state I lived in Hawaii
for several years, and coming backto the mainland and going all over you
you get interesting perspectives that staying athome never gets you. And I think

(46:37):
it's kind of why I have someof the same sensibilities because lived in Actually
I live in the smallest town I'veever lived in before. The place I
live now only has half a millionpeople. It's the smallest place I've ever
lived, and it took me manyyears to us but it just, you
know, getting out there and seeingeverything and being exposed to everything probably explains

(47:01):
a lot about me and some ofmy interesting tastes. And they call me
eclectic, but I think that Imay make other eclectic people feel weird.
So that's a good But that's agood thing. Yes, that is being
suicidal. Yeah, well I knewI was in trouble when my se first

(47:22):
grade teacher asked me why his favoriteband was the Ramones, So why not
what kind? It's like I raisedmy son with very interesting, strange you
know, it's like it my perfectexample. My father loved Elvis, my
mother listened to Motown. My parentsare from Detroit. Um, my mother's

(47:46):
older sister got me into Shakespeare.That's why that was my first degree.
And um, you know, andI got exposed to classical music. And
I grew up Catholic, so Igot exposed to all that and then of
course, I grew up in theseventies and the eighties, so you know
I have this weird, strange,eclectical mix of music and movies. Um,

(48:10):
and I just thought everyone did that. Yeah, yeah, I mean
I had a magical moment my youngesties, she's only eight. Um, over
breakfast, she told me that atschool they're studying A Midsummer's Nice Dream,
and she's telling me all about thecharacters. And I'm just sitting there absolutely

(48:30):
marveling. Guan. So this littlebean and that little means now telling me
about Shakespeare, And I just thought, isn't Hervel's place? Isn't the world
of marvelous place? Yes? Iwas trying to I've had to google this,

(48:51):
Andy, So I was trying todo this whole quote about you know,
a reader reads us out, We'lllive a thousand lives, sometimes even
only lived one. And I'm thinking, was it Primo LEVI was it?
Was it Saul Bellow? No?No, no, no, no,
it's it's it's it's George R.R. Mine. Yeah. But that
whole nation that by by reading,by engrossing yourselves in other things, you

(49:15):
see the world in different ways,don't you even as easy in with a
guy with a with a donkey face, you know, as in mid summer
ice dream. You know, there'sright, You've got it, You've got
punk, You got it, yougot punk? Yeah, well yeah,
I think Shakespeare was the original punk. I think he was a got it
mate, absolutely, yes, yeah, yeah. Well when you realize how
many of our terms or phrases goback to that. And I named my

(49:37):
son after Shakespeare. He tells everyoneI named him after William Shatner. He's
he's like his father. He's intotech and and everything. He's not into
Shakespeare. He could care less.But it just there's so many things.
And I did several productions when Iwas younger and still on the stage,

(50:00):
and I mean, there were justso many things in it, the intrigue.
There are so many movies and storiesthat we can trace back to his
stories and um, and there's somereally awful things that have happened. We
were talking about, um, TheLittle Mermaid and Denmark, and I refer

(50:22):
back to Hamlet. You know,everyone dies must be your Danish. Everyone
dies, you know, and soit just, you know, you could
never get away with a movie todaywhere everyone dies. Nobody likes that someone
has to live at the end.Yeah, that's that's something I'm really worried
about. It's a lot of stuffcoming out. It days to a very

(50:46):
safe formulate. Who says that thehero. I'm not saying like this make
everything dark and no, but alittle more reality. Yeah, it's um.
It's very easy to guess plotlines,particularly in films. But I'm very
excited because there's a lot of newfilms coming out. I hope it's good.

(51:09):
But there's a film coming out calledThe Creator, and I believe a
film with that budget and that levelof effects really good effects, Like you
can't tell they're not effects other thanwe haven't made robots that big blah blah
blah. You're sitting there going ifthat was on the news, I'd be

(51:30):
terrified. And I'm like, well, that's interesting because everything comes from a
property or it's a reboot. ButI think we're on the cusp of seeing
in cinema a new generation of theground up. Originally, yeah, because
like when we were growing up,we had like Labyrinth, the Dark Crystal.

(51:52):
Yes, Indiana Jones was based onthe old nineties fifties styles, cereals
and things like that. Still wasvery fresh at the time, but even
when what was also good about thosefilms? Yes, the hero one,
but it came at a cost,It wasn't this sort of Yes, yeah,
they walk away completely scratch free.You know, maybe lost someone or

(52:15):
there was really been taken to theedge. Yeah, there's there's a lot
of safe stuff out there at themoment. We'll see I think at these
exciting times. So yeah, Well, unfortunately, this is all the time
we have on the subspace radio network. If you want to hear more of
this interview, please go to eitherthe Thus seventy seven Publications YouTube page or

(52:37):
to listen to it in the caror at work on a podcast look for
the MARCU forty twos Universe podcast.It's a built on audible Pandora, Apple,
Google Play, all around the interworkthingy, and at markup forty two
dot com. Hopefully you'll go thereand hear the rest of the interview,

(52:57):
But for those only sticking with asubspace free network, we'll see us soon.
Bye. Everyone, Thanks for listeningto MARCU forty two's Universe featuring Mark
Bound Garden ifuard O Mfryor, DickChakobowski and Zion Curos. This show was

(53:17):
produced and directed by Mark bound Garden. If you'd like to get in touch
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(53:42):
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