#174: From Scalpel To Scale: The Portland Face Doctor’s Journey In Building A Hybrid Surgical + MedSpa Powerhouse

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're listening to Medical Millionaire, your podcast for medspot owners,
medical aesthetics, cosmetics and elective wellness entrepreneurs. Each week, we
dive deep into powerful marketing strategies, proven scaling tactics, and
the secrets to attracting high end clients, all while staying
ahead of the latest industry trends. Join us as we

(00:25):
uncover insights from top industry leaders to help you boost revenue,
enhance patient satisfaction, and master the art of marketing your practice.
Hosted by Cameron Hemppill. With over a decade of experience
in the aesthetics industry, Cameron has supported thousands of practices
and providers, working with some of the biggest names, most
well respected brands, and elite industry thought leaders in the field.

(00:46):
If you're ready to level up your practice and become
a true medical millionaire, this is your podcast. Here's your host,
Cameron Handpill.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Hey, what's up everybody? Cam hempco here your host for
the Medical Millionaire podcast. Thank you so much for taking
the time to tune in. Our goal is to give
incredible value and insight for practice owners. So if you're
thinking about becoming a practice owner, you're looking to scale
your practice. Every single one of these episodes that we
bring to you there to help elevate you from a
business standpoint. We understand you, guys take a tremendous amount

(01:19):
of effort learning everything from the clinical aspect. The purpose
of these episodes is to talk about business finance, how
to take your practice from where it is today to
where you want to go. Guys, I have a super
impressive guest on today. I have a gentleman from Portland, Oregon.
He has bought a practice just over a year ago.

(01:41):
He had to rebuild the team he both did on
a medspot to it, and now he's achieved one of
the most robust dynamic facial practice, surgical offices, medical aesthetics practices.
And I want to welcome doctor Peter Villa, the founder
and owner of Portland Face. Welcome to the show. My man.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
Well, thank you very much. I appreciate you out and
I'm really excited to talk together.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah, so let's jump in. We were talking offline and
it was you have such a cool story. I know
that you've moved around a lot and you landed in
Portland and you found this practice that you obviously solve
the tremendous amount of potential. It was ran by a
legacy owner, and a lot of times when a new
guy comes in, right, you come in and you're able

(02:27):
to have a little bit of leadership to help take
the practice to where you wanted to go. But in
your case, that went slightly different. I'd like to talk
a little bit about that and then how you were
able to really turn things into something that's just absolutely
thriving in such a short period of time.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
Absolutely, So, you know, I love hearing stories from surgeons, entrepreneurs,
people that, like, you know, they tell the story in retrospect, right,
it's always kind of straight line as to how he
got there, and we all know the reality is nine
but right, so there's tons of pivots, there's tons of barriers,
things that happened along the way, and you kind of
have to adapt and keep movement. So, yeah, the short

(03:06):
version of the story is that I'm a facial classic surgeon.
I finished training during COVID and so you know, it
was a tough time to be coming out of training
into the job market where essentially there was no market
because everything was shut down. So kind of figured out
my own way, made it happen and was had joined
another surgeon for a while and that wasn't going to
really work out long term, and so I ended up

(03:27):
going on my own pretty quickly thereafter, and I was
here in Portland, Oregon, and so as I kind of
went out on my own, that's when the other surgeon
approached me. It was like, hey, by the way, I'm
going to retire soon.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Do you want to take over this practice?

Speaker 4 (03:38):
And so we kind of went back and forth for
a little bit, happy to talk in detail or if
you want as much detail as you want.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
About that whole process.

Speaker 4 (03:44):
There was a fair amount of negotiation there, and then
eventually we settled. I actually walked away, he came back,
and then we kind of you know, settled finally. So
I did take over that practice eventually, and so, yeah,
completely retooled it. Totally different practices now than it was
even a year ago. And yeah, it's a great place
to be, but certainly not a straight line to get there.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
What was that experience? Like? It sounds like you guys connected,
you had a deal put together. Maybe you guys walked
away just negotiating the purchase price the terms. I know,
being a founder myself, if it was my practice, I
was in issues and I'm like, Okay, I'm going to retire.
There's a lot going through his mind. There's a lot

(04:26):
going through your mind, you know. You know you have
to make a move. You're like, hey, we either got
to make something happen or I need to move on.
Talk to us about that, because there's risks on both sides.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
There's definitely risks on both sides. And a lot of
the advice I've gotten.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
Early on as far as like whether to buy a
practice or not, a lot of people said don't do it,
and being you need to know what it is you're
actually getting and what tends to happen sometimes, especially in
surgical practices, is where you might have somebody kind of
buying a part of the practice and then the senior
person doesn't want to leave or they're reluctant to kind
of get things up up and so you know, what

(05:01):
did you get by that purchase?

Speaker 3 (05:02):
You know, like there's not a ton. So that was
something that was really important to me.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
And so this particular surgeon was an appoint in his career.
For health reasons, he had to retire, like there was
an end, and so I was like, okay, Well, as.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
Far as that particular issue, he's going to be stepping down.
He will be done right.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
So there's not really a problem as far as like
who is kind of in charge at that point.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
So that worked out favorably. The other things that I
did not.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
Anticipate are basically what happens to everyone else. Right, And
so he had a team that he'd been working with
for years and basically one day, you know, we've been
talking for months about this. It probably took a total
about six months of going back and forth and back
and forth and that, like I said, at one point,
I just walked away because I said, you know, that's
too much.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
I'm not interested.

Speaker 4 (05:47):
A big part of what that was about was about
the OBDA sort of like what does that actually mean
in terms of like you know, with private equity and
all these things, you know you need to kind of
if you're going to sell the private equity, you don't
get to like just walk away. You don't just get
payout and lead like you need to continue to work, right. So,
and it's different with the different surgeon at the HELM, right,
So I do things differently.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
The way I do this is differently. The way I
do surgery is differently so there's.

Speaker 4 (06:09):
A lot of that unknown, and so a lot of
the negotiation was trying to figure out like, okay, well
what would this actually look like?

Speaker 3 (06:16):
So yeah, I think the other stuff was what I did.

Speaker 4 (06:19):
Non anticipate, right, And so as soon as we had
gotten to a reasonable sort of like okay, like I'm
comfortable with surgical part of this, and that's all I
kind of work and so on, the team that had
been with him for like ten years quit immediately.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
And so I don't blame them.

Speaker 4 (06:33):
They didn't know me, you know, but like that's kind
of tough to go from like all right, cool and
hits fore, I'd running got this whole team, everything's all
booked out, We're good. So like I had nobody to
like service any of the things that I need, Like
I don't have staff.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
So that was very challenging. I probably aged about ten years.

Speaker 4 (06:49):
In about a month long period and kind of rebuilt
it from the ground up and sort of like as
the plane is going over the mountain. So yeah, I
learned a ton there and happy to talk about that
as much as as loll as you want to, But
that was I did not expect that.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, there's there's definitely a lot to impact there. And
you know, I think it's uh, it's it's interesting you
seem very self educated when it comes to negotiating a
practice going on EBA, the understanding private equity what that
looks like, because you're exactly right, if you sell to
private equity, they do want you to stay on, right,

(07:25):
you are a massive income producer for the practice. They
do not want to lose that. They want to make
sure this thing is going to thrive, and they're going
to inject their methodology and technology and finance stack into
something that's working and obviously scale that up. So that
probably had something to do with his decision making out
assume is maybe I can sell the private equity. And

(07:46):
again I don't I don't know the details of your
particular deal, but you know, do I want to walk
away one hundred percent now and take what's on the table,
or do I want to take a bite of the apple,
like maybe a half bite, because typically you also roll
equity into a private equity type of situation. And for
the audience out there, guys, if you do sell the
private equity, just like what doctor Deo was saying, they

(08:09):
want you to stay on and typically they want you
to have ownership, right, because they want you to be
a part of that roll up. They want you to
be a part of these goals. And when as a
gentleman seems like I guess he was an older guy
right ready to retire, it sounds like that probably laid
into that decision making.

Speaker 4 (08:26):
I would assume, yeah, absolutely, And you know I've heard
you came by the way, Like I love the podcast.
I know you talk a lot about this stuff in
terms of like KPIs and like all the foreign language
to surgeons, right, because it's not like we talk about
the stuff ever in training.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
So as a facial clastic surgeon, I love what I do.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
It's very much sort of you know, my job is
wonderful and what I do day to day, but like
that's the technician part, that's not the business owner part.
There's a lot of other stuff that comes with owning
the business and kind of keeping your fingers the pulse
of what's going on with the business itself.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
So I love that you talk about all the time.
That's kind of your thing.

Speaker 4 (09:05):
And as far like why I was you know, like
that's what I'm learning, right, Like this is all a
new language that I'm kind of learning.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
As we go, and so I think more doctors need
to be.

Speaker 4 (09:16):
Very well educated about this stuff because you know, I
love what I do certically I've been I spent my
entire adult life learning how to do this.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
Kind of stuff, right, But you know that that means
nothing when it comes to business.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
You really have to know the language and how to
you know what, as you're looking at what data are
you actually using to make these decisions? They are very
important or going to affect your long term health of
the practice and your staff and all that kind of stuff. So,
you know, just for the record, I do want to say, like,
thank you for talking about this stuff.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
I love that, and yes, we all need to continue
to learn.

Speaker 4 (09:43):
Me especially needs to continue to learn all this stuff because, yeah,
it's it's super important and vital to the health of
the practice.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, I mean it's you know, look, I have so
much respect for what you guys do. I mean, the
fact that you study this craft for as long as
you have, the amount of schooling, the amount of the
amount of risks that you have, the impact you have
on the patients and the outcomes and transformation. You truly
are changing people's lives. You're doing way more than just
like a business guy like me is doing, and all

(10:10):
like in the reality of big picture of things and
impacting the world. I mean, I try my hardest to
educate practice owners, people that want to become practice owners,
people that want to take their practice next level. Yes,
they have to understand the business side, they have to
learn business acumen. It's very very important. But you also
have to have patients in order to create revenue for

(10:33):
the practice, right, and those patients have to get a
wonderful transformation, a wonderful service, And that's not easy to do.
You know, you go to school for all these times
and then all a sudden you have a patient, your
first patient. I'm sure that's like a whole other experience.
And then there's the business side, and so you know,
being a practice owner, a plastic surgeon, I mean, it's

(10:53):
that's pretty demanding.

Speaker 4 (10:55):
It's yeah, I will say I used to be sort
of more of an adrenaline junkie when I was younger.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
I'm looking forward too now and so not that I'm old,
but like my life priorities are different. Work is extremely.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
Stressful and so yes, like my weekends involved kind of
just chill, Like I just like to just keep it
low key, Like I hang out with my kids, I
do some fun stuff on a mountain to go skiing whatever,
Like it's pretty you know, I'm very different now that
used to be.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
And it's because like, yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
It's extremely stressful when I do a surgery for somebody,
Like They're putting their entire face in my hands and
I'm doing what I do. You know, you get a
beautiful results out of it, but like they're swelling along
the way, there's potential complications along the way. There's a
whole process there, and so yeah, people are in a
really vulnerable state. And my daily job involves hating people
navigating through this kind of state.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
So the operating for me is awesome.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
That's like, you know, that's my pund space, right, Like
I love that I spent in my literally entire career
like getting to the point where like now I can
just do that all the time.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
Amazing, awesome, But that's just one set. Then you got
to get.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
People through recovery and all of that. So yes, that
is extremely stressful, but I love what I do.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
You don't have it any other way.

Speaker 4 (12:02):
I just want to make sure that I'm doing this
good of a job with the other stuff so that
I can continue to do that, right, And I know
plenty of surgeons that work into their eighties because yeah,
they love surgery, but like they also didn't make great decisions.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
Along the way, and so they have to keep working
until their eighties. Like I am not going to do that.
I have no intention of doing that.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
Like I love my family, I love traveling, I love
you know, so I got a good twenty years in
the end, I'm out right like it's not so, you know,
I'll make my impact while I'm working, while I'm hit
it hard, and while I'm here, I definitely want to
work hard. But then at some point I'm going to
just kind of let someone else take over and just
kind of keep going with the momentum that we've created
over the past twenty years or whatever.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
And that's really just good at business. Brock sosts, right.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
So, yeah, yeah, no, it absolutely is. Man. I love
the way that you're thinking about it, even the fact
that you have this time horizon on it, understanding exactly
what you have to do, the impact you have to have,
understanding the side of the business that you have to do.
I mean it. It just goes to show that you
take a tremendous amount of time to study, a lot
of time to learn, and it's going to be very

(13:01):
Talk to me a little bit about the team aspect.
You close the deal, you have this new practice your site,
You're pumped. You're like, hey, we got through that six
months of negotiation. By the way, I've been there, I've
been through qv I've been through diligence. I know what
that's like, and it's challenging. It's a roller coaster. It's

(13:25):
an emotional roller coaster, and I know that there's times
where you're both of you are like, you know, I'm done,
We're just gonna walk away from the table. The next
day you're like excited again. So I get the emotional
impact of it. But now you close, let's just go
through that journey. You close, and you're like, hey, if
I here we go, whirre the money signed, the check,
whatever took place there. Obviously there was some sort of
transactional details that went through. Now you have this team

(13:49):
and in your mind and I'm just kind of going
off with what I'm thinking here in your mind, there's
a location, there's a brand, there's staff, there's patients, right,
there's a database, there's something tangible. You bought this ass said,
well the staff leaves man. That had to be just
a punch to the stomach, Like how did you go

(14:09):
through that? And how did you rebuild this team? That's
really incredible You're able to do that in such a
short period of time.

Speaker 4 (14:15):
Yeah, So I had a bottle of champagne saved in
my fridge and I think I opened it.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
Finally, we just bought a house, so like I think
I opened it. When we moved into the house. They
were sitting there for about a year untouched.

Speaker 4 (14:29):
Because what happened that first week I come into the
week just like I said, I'm pumped, man, Like we closed,
I'm so ready to hit this.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Like we got you know, patients booked out for like
three months with surgery. Like we're good, We're good. So
what happened was I said, Okay, there were a couple
of clinicians in the.

Speaker 4 (14:44):
Practice, a couple of nurse injectors, and so I, you know,
gave him a favorable contract. That didn't want to be
like a super you know, like you tell them what
I'm going to be doing, Like I kind of want
to keep things the same. Everything's going to continue the same.
Of course, we'll make small changes over.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Time, and then we'll go from there and I'll slowly
sort of like I don't like to come in and
like change everything, just like you know, wrench to ceering
will but left and everybody's like, whoa, what are we doing?

Speaker 4 (15:05):
So the goal is to just kind of maintain and
then we'll slowly iterate. Because they clearly had a good
thing going. What I didn't anticipate was that, you know,
as the new guy, they don't know me right.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
Like I could have been awful. I could have been
the best, you know, business leader they've.

Speaker 4 (15:19):
Ever seen, but they don't know me right, and so
the transition there was really the issue and where things
kind of fell apart. I think we, as the previous
owner and myself had been talking for six months, but
the staff had no idea, and so you know, when
that sort of all went through, they kind of felt.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
Like, well, wait a second, like where's the other guy?
Who are you?

Speaker 4 (15:37):
Like what?

Speaker 3 (15:38):
So they kind of freaked out. And so I don't
blame them.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
I don't take that stuff personally. I mean it's hard
now to because it's my business but.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
Like, okay, like I get it.

Speaker 4 (15:46):
I'm not going to force someone to work for me
that doesn't want to work in the practice, right, Like that's.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Like poll and teeth. I'm not going to do that.
So luckily I was in the community.

Speaker 4 (15:54):
I'd been in Portland for the previous two years, and
so I kind of knew people, and so I said, okay,
I started making frantic phone calls, and I said, okay,
I don't have.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
Staff to do this. I need to hire somebody, like
yesterday to at least like run the phones.

Speaker 4 (16:05):
I had a coordinator with me that I kind of
had started like my own little microp practice of like
me and a coordinator.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
That was it. And so she took on the job
of like creat different people for a.

Speaker 4 (16:14):
While where it was like she's running the phone, she's
answering emails, she's scheduling, she's doing all that stuff.

Speaker 3 (16:18):
So at least I can offset the front office to her.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
I immediately started looking for another coordinator because I was like,
all right, like she can't do all of this.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
So that other coordinator still with me today. And then
so once I had the front office set and she.

Speaker 4 (16:31):
Came in pretty quick, I was able to she luckily
was awesome and was super flexible and kind of understood that, like,
you know, the roof is on fire, but we still
got to like make some moves, and you know, she
works well.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
Under pressure, so it worked out. So that was my
first fire, was another coordinator, just.

Speaker 4 (16:45):
To help offset the amount of administrative stuff that needed
to happen, like the phone calls of like where's the
other guy? And you know all that stuff. So that
was sort of the first step. That was all happened
within the first week.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
Like, I don't think I slept.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
I think I stayed at the office from like six
am to like ten most days, like ten pm, like
every day that week, because like.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
I just there was so much going on, find what
does that? So, like, you know, I basically wanted to
sleep at the office and get them do it again.
The next day. That week was awful, okay, And so I.

Speaker 4 (17:16):
Had surgeries book the following Monday. So luckily that's where
the network starts to come into play. I called a
couple of nurses in town. I said, hey, like, here's
what happened. I had no staff to do these surgeries.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
Can you help me? And luckily she was like, Okay, cool.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
I got to you like I'm gonna, you know, take
Monday off.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
I'll come hang out with you on Monday. You got
me in definitely as long as you need me, like
I'll be there. One of her friends also came on
who had previously worked with this guy, so.

Speaker 4 (17:39):
Like it was just kind of an old school like
all right, we'll help you out for a while until
until you're you know, you got to street up a gigain.
So for a while we were piecing it together that way.
They were sort of independent contractors that just kind of
came in. They didn't want like a full time thing.
They just helped me out where any end of it.
So that was how we got the end. Excuse me, that's.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
How we got the operating work again. So that was
like step one.

Speaker 4 (18:01):
Okay, dealing with the fallout of like the injectors leading
was a totally different thing, and like you know, there's
like non compete agreements, there's all this stuff right where
you try to like protect the practice legally, and so
at one point I did seriously consider, like my lawyers
like chomping at the bit to go after the injectors
because what they ended up doing this one just went

(18:22):
like down the street and open up front practice with
the previous manager that was at this practice.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
So yeah, which I was like, okay, well that's that's
super cool.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
And by the way, there's like a whole like lie
there about like taking time off.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
To like focus on other things whatever. So I my lawyers.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
Like chopping in the bit like ready to go because
it would have been an open shutcase. I decided not
to pursue that because it felt like I was punching
down like it really I didn't feel like it was
a threat to the practice anyway.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
It was kind of annoying, but like we were going
to be fine.

Speaker 4 (18:55):
I moved the locations and so she basically stayed near
the old location, and then I had already started to
build out. So luckily that's the other thing too, that
like really factored into the negotiations and it already started
to build out a different location, so like we were
gonna move, like that was always part of the plan,
and so I just kind of said, you know what,
I'm gonna let that go. Like I still haven't seen
this person, I probably won't ever, but like whatever, you know,

(19:20):
like it's I don't take it personally, could I sue, Absolutely,
am I going to know, it's just not a threat
to the practice, Like it's.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
You know, I don't think there's ever going to be
a relationship there, but like it is what it is.
So we just kind of kept going.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
And so that once I had the sort of fundamentals down,
then I started okay, like let's bring on some other
clinicians to sort of.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Help round out the METSPA side of things.

Speaker 4 (19:45):
And so for me and the surgical part, like all
my energy goes into like the surgery, and what I
wanted to do is expand a non surgical portion, and
so that's been a whole thing and that's really challenging.
And I know you've talked to a lot of people
about that stuff. Like as far as a surgeon, I
know what I do in the operating room. There's a
lot of other stuff I can do too, but as
a business owner, like the revenue is all surgery, right,

(20:07):
so like that's really where my efforts are I think
are the best focused. So I think we know how
to do things well though as far as the non
surgical stuff, So I really enjoy being able to offer
that even if I'm not the one doing it right
because like I know how to do it well, right,
so you know, if we find some good people, we
slowly expand the team and we're still working on that.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
And so like that, all that stuff happened.

Speaker 4 (20:28):
Very very very quickly. I wouldn't recommend doing that just
through blood pressure, just for your long term health. Like
that's that's like it's hard, you know, But like I know,
I talk to enough people who are like.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
Super successful and it's like, yeah, they've all gone through
some sort of like.

Speaker 4 (20:40):
Horrendous experience like this in the beginning and then you
just kind of figure it out as you go.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
So I don't know, maybe that was me paying my dues.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
I don't know, but like luckily I'm at a point
now where, yes, things are much more stable, things are
much better.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
I have a phenomenal team. The people that work with
me want to be here, and I take good care
of them, and we you know, we're happy. We had fun,
you know, so it's like it's a good place to
be in. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Well, I mean I have a ton of respect for you. Man,
Like you went through you went through hell, you were
immediately thrown into entrepreneurship and you happen to figure stuff
out staying late at the office. You knew you had
surgeries coming up on Monday. No staff like, how can
you conduct surgery? About nurses there?

Speaker 3 (21:21):
Right?

Speaker 2 (21:22):
They it's just not going to work, and happen to
scramble and pull it off. And you had surgeries booked
out for three months in advance, which when you close,
you're like, this is great. We have forecasted revenue coming in, right,
we have a book of patients, we have staff. All
this sounds great. You never know what people are going
to do. And then you know one of the providers
takes off and says, hey, I want time off whatever.

(21:44):
You know it happened there, but really went to go
open up, you know, their own their own brand, their
own spot. And as we all know, when a provider leaves,
patients do follow providers. Not all of them, but definitely,
you know, a decent percentage of them, depending on how
strong that relationship is. And you know, you're I like
your decision, I truly do. I I think that you

(22:06):
could have focused your energy and efforts on that and
it would probably just bring a tremendous amount of anger
and hate. And you know what, the impact is probably
a decline of revenue and you're not focusing on what
matters most and so doubling down on yourself. Man, that
was that's that's huge. Like, I great decision. I bet

(22:27):
you were getting tons of advice from obviously your your lawyer,
legal friends, family, what you should do, what you can do,
what you legally can do, and uh, you know, I
like your decision there. Sure there's an argument on the
other side of the table, but the fact that you're
also moving locations. I didn't know that. So you also
were demanding on doing a build out moving locations, which

(22:48):
is also disruptive. But to me, it sounds like you're
you're you're confident, you believe in yourself. You bet on yourself.
I appreciate that. The people that I admire, study follow
read about some of the most successful entrepreneurs, they bet
on themselves. And you know, for the listeners out there,

(23:09):
guys like you know who you are, and this is
this is a perfect example of a bad ass. That's
that's what it is. Doctor Peterville is a badass. And
he said, you know what, I think the best outcome
in this whole situation is for me to bet on
myself and focus on what matters most and think long term, right,
Someone that would think short term would go focus on

(23:30):
the noncompete, go attack the gal, talk bad about her
emails like a social media slander, all that crap, or
really just be like, you know what, I'm going to
go focus on my brand. I'm going to focus on myself.
I'm going to focus on my new location. I'm going
to get my nurse's rank, I'm going to get everything
positioned the way it needs to be, and I'm going
to focus on me and think of the future and

(23:51):
not go back and look where you are today look
at the impact of that. I don't know too many people.
I mean, this was not long ago. When did you
buy the practice? And you said it was like it
was about a year ago, wasn't it.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, to go from that to where you are now
is very very impressive, very impressive. I don't know if
many people have told you that. I'm sure your wife
and family have, but just for a short period of
time we've known each other. That's not easy to go through.

Speaker 4 (24:19):
Man.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
So I have a ton of respect for you.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
Yeah, I mean I appreciate that.

Speaker 4 (24:22):
Like like you said, though, I mean, honestly, there's not
enough time to like think about that stuff and like.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
It's going to feel worse. So like all you can
do is just think, like, Okay, where are we headed
with this? Like what's the vision here? Right? And it
always comes back to the whys.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
It's like you just keep going yep, yep. Absolutely, And
so what's so when you combined you have the surgery center,
Obviously that's going to bring in the most amount of revenue.
Patients are going to see the most transformation there. I know,
you focus on facial plastics, right, and then bringing the
mets fock opponent. Now you have this I bet you
have this crossover where your injector patients, you know, the

(24:59):
face patients, they also maybe want to get you know,
righto plastics done. They want to look at facial you know, plastics,
those septs of things. How how is that blend? Talk
to us about the blend, about the challenges, the upside,
the lift, the potential.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
Talk to us about that. Yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (25:15):
So the goal was always to have a space where
we can kind of do it all under one roof,
but not so much like you know sometimes when it
comes to business and you read it, you know, I
read a lot of business stuff right, like Good to
Great and all these books where the idea is not
to offer all the surfaces under the sun.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
Just pick the thing that you're really good at. Just
focus on that, right, And that's what I try to do.
And so when it comes to facial classics, you know,
the surgery part is what I do.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
I also do the non surgical stuff too, but I
really enjoy it's actually really fun. You get to talk
to patients, like you get to you know, talk about
what they're doing and their daughter's getting married next weekend
and whatever.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
You know, like they're traveling to wherever. So that stuff's cool.
I really enjoy that.

Speaker 4 (25:54):
But in terms of the practice, like you know, in
the business revenue, like it's much more you know, fruital
for the practice for me to be in the operator.
So you know, it's not that I don't want to
do that stuff. It's that I want to build a
successful practice. And so you know, the benefit of having
on under one roof is that there's a certain philosophy
when it comes to aesthetics, right, Like you can look

(26:16):
a certain way, you can you know, like my whole thing,
I'm in the Northwest, right, so we're not in an
area where people are walking.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
Around like it's like a flex that have had surgery.

Speaker 4 (26:23):
Right, Like they don't want anyone to know they have surgery,
which makes it hard to get before and after and
things like that.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
But you know, people are generally okay with it, right,
So you know.

Speaker 4 (26:32):
The the cool thing about it is like people want
to be undetectable.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
People want to just look good. They want to just go.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
About their lives and not think about their nose or
not think about their joals or.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Their neck laxity or whatever it is. It's father.

Speaker 4 (26:44):
So we do the thing and then they get better
and it's awesome, and then it's like, oh, yeah, cool,
that was way easier.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
I should have done that ten years ago. Cool off.
So that's a success in my book.

Speaker 4 (26:54):
So instead of just saying right, cool, see later, like
come back in ten years, okay, cool, Like the bootox.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
The lasers that we're gonna need for maintenance.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
If you really want to continue to look at this good, yeah,
you're going to take some maintenance. Right, Like all the celebrities,
all the people that are on camera all the time,
they're doing all kinds of stuff, right, Like, you don't just.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
Like wake up looking great. Right, we all have some damage,
we all have little things that happen to us as
we age.

Speaker 4 (27:14):
So for me, the philosophy of just like keeping things natural,
but just like the best possible way we.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Can make it.

Speaker 4 (27:19):
Look, let's all do that together. I love the fact
I literally I'm pointing at my own r here through
the camera, Like I walk from an operating room over
to the clinic side, and it's about five feet and
here we are, right and I can go see a patient,
like quickly leave the operating room for seconds to go
check on patients, something's going on, and then run back
in like awesome, that's amazing. So, you know, it's pretty
cool to be able to offer all of that under

(27:40):
the same vision. And the people that I have in
the team that I have around me, they all very
firmly believe in that.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
We're very honest, we're very transparent, we're very sort of
just I just want patients to feel awesome when they
walk in the door. The way they're greeted, the way
they're rooined, the way we talk about what we're doing.
All these things, there's a certain feel to it. There's
a very much like a a way we do things.

Speaker 4 (28:00):
And so the culture there in a small practice like
we have is great because like that way, I mean,
in full time employee, I'm preaving like six right, I'm
probably like closer to ten when it comes to like
part time or some stuff like that. But it's not
a huge team, so it's a little easier for me
to be like, all right, guys, like here's the visions,
here's what we're doing. And I know they're on board
too because I see them closely, like and I'm working
next to them every day, so very easy to manage that.

(28:24):
I'm not trying to create like five different locations where
we're franchising or doing all that.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
Maybe in the future, but like that's not really what
I'm doing right now. Right now, I'm really.

Speaker 4 (28:32):
Trying to just figure out the fundamentals of how to
get an awesome practice and just do the best possible.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Job we can and just take care good care of patience,
right and obviously be successful while we're doing that.

Speaker 4 (28:41):
So there's a lot of learning there that's happening, and
so for me, it just makes sense, like bundling the
non surgical with.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
The surgical in terms of like facial aesthetics, cool, that's
like my umbrella.

Speaker 4 (28:51):
That's where I live. I'm not going to venture outside
the neck and start doing other stuff. Like there's plenty
of other plastic surgeons in town that can do that stuff,
and frankly they're.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
Better at it.

Speaker 4 (28:58):
Cool, go do the your booze. I know a guy
right like, whatever, whatever the case may be. So I'm
not trying to bring in other things that fall outside
of that sort of umbrella. I just really would be
the best guy in that ambrella. So it really makes sense,
and it's easier to sort of just build a brand
and build a vision for my staff around that.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, that's huge. I mean you're super transparent. You build
a great trust within the local community. I mean I
can see it online. I can see it through the reputation,
I can see it through your social media, your website.
You did a wonderful job of the buildout. Sounds like
you have really good flow within the practice as well.
So you've thought of You've almost thought of everything.

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Speaker 2 (31:08):
One thing that kind of sticks out is is Portland
in general. Right, it's a pretty competitive market. High income earners.
You know patients have access to other providers, access to
other surgeons, and you come off to me as a
very trusted educator. You're trying to educate your patients and
easy to talk to, and you know it's in giving

(31:31):
them the right advice and taking them down the roadmap
that's going to give them the best success, the best transformation.
How have you been able to do that position your
market within what you offer. How have you positioned yourself
to say, hey, this is what we do from a
marketing standpoint, from a local community standpoint, what are some

(31:52):
of the successes that you have you seen there? In
which ones maybe have not been so successful?

Speaker 3 (31:59):
Yeah? Good question.

Speaker 4 (32:00):
I think growing up at the age of social media, Okay,
because when I was in training as a as a resident,
people weren't really doing like surgery.

Speaker 3 (32:10):
Stuff on Instagram and that really wasn't a thing. Yet
when I.

Speaker 4 (32:14):
Came out of training, like I finished everything in twenty twenty,
so suddenly now everybody's on Instagram and like everyone's posting,
you know, stories from the operating room, and like it's
like a thing now.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
So it's worth of expected that you're just like what
you like? What do you mean you're not on social media.
You know, it's like kind of a it's just part
of the job. So in doing that and sort.

Speaker 4 (32:33):
Of finding your voice through social media, which is what
it was in the beginning when I had just finished
training and it was just like I'm a brand new guy,
no one knows who I am. You kind of find
your voice that way because you get at least I
got comfortable.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
My style was very.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
Much just I'm just going to be super transparent and
just try to educate it, right, And there's it's such
a crowded space with so much bs.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
Coming from every side, and it's just like who do
you trust?

Speaker 4 (32:56):
Right, So for me, it was like, Okay, I'm going
to try to be the trustworthy guy in this crazy
crowded space and just tell it like it is, and
I will be honest and I'll hopefully make it a
little bit entertaining and funny.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
But like it's really just about educating. That's my that's
my whole slants. So the vision for the business just comes.

Speaker 4 (33:13):
From that same philosophy. That's what we do every day
when I do consoles. You know, Yeah, we have fun, we.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
Joke around, I play music.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
We were like talking about stuff like I want to
hear about your whatever, your kid's wedding that's coming up, whatever,
and so like it's I may get sort of a
fun space for people and for patients to just feel safe,
right and then say let the guard down a little bit.
Then it's like okay, cool, Like now we can meet
each other. I know you haven't met me before. You're
telling me about this thing that you're super insecure about.
It's okay, Like cool, they feel comfortable, and then we

(33:40):
can have like a really good heart to heart about like, Okay,
here's what we can do about this same that's bothering you.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
And it's just a better space to do it. And
so for me, it's always the.

Speaker 4 (33:47):
Stain about education, and I think it comes from I
think it's starting as social media, to be honest with you,
like just like figuring out what your persona is, what
your sort of take on all this stuff is. That's
that's how you develop it, and then you just run
with it and it continues to do all over time.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
You know. That's kind of where we're at these days. Yes,
it is a crowded market, Yes it is.

Speaker 4 (34:08):
It's I mean, it's it isn't this and it's not
Beverly Hills, right, Like, there's not like.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
Eighteen surgeons, like within like five minutes of me.

Speaker 4 (34:13):
There's probably like four surgeons that I like, they do
a really good job in town, and then there's a
couple others and you know, like it's not that crowded,
so it's not that bad. And honestly, I think there's
enough people here to where if you're just doing a
good job, your patients will find you two degree, like
they kind of know what they're going to get with
you in terms of like okay, like I tend to
keep things pretty natural. I'm what you see is what

(34:35):
you get. Like I make people feel good about themselves.
I don't really come in with a hard.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Sell, Like it's really just about just meeting them halfway, right.

Speaker 4 (34:42):
And so I think patients have sort of being in
Portland now for about three years now, I think they
sort of understand that, and they sort of you know,
through the social media, through other patients that have now
kind of told their friends about it and things like that.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
That's a good way to get it out there.

Speaker 4 (34:58):
I will say, like there's nothing wrong with moving to
like the Beverly Hills or Miami or New York or
wherever where it's like a super crowded market because the
demand is so much higher for the sources that you offer.
So for me, I mean, I have a family of kids.
Like it's I'm okay with not being like downtown in
the US and.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
Muscle of it. Do I like cities? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (35:19):
Absolutely, Like we just got back to New York on
family vacation, like of course, but you know, it's nice
to be able to be in a space where I'm
not expected to work like seven days a week, some
sort of balance there. So it works for me, it
works for us, like we're super happy here. Is that
for everybody now?

Speaker 3 (35:33):
But like you know, I do think that with social
media you can't really hide it anymore.

Speaker 4 (35:38):
And so in the smaller towns where maybe it's not
as big as a thing to like get pluster or whatever,
you can still be very visible and you can still
be transparent in a way that didn't really exist like
even ten years ago.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
So things are.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
Changing, they are They're changing rapidly fast. And you know,
I think it's extremely important to be on social media
and find, you know, your authentisic self, of of what
you want to give value to the marketplace. And so
you've really done a great job of honing in on that,
especially you know on the surgical side, where you have patients,
like you said, are very vulnerable, right, they come in, Hey,

(36:11):
this is a stranger doctor patient type of conversation. This
has been bothering me and educating them on what that
process looks like and what the outcome looks like, you know,
being honest about downtime, the cost, you know, and how
long is it going to take, what's going to you know,
what's going to change the what the impact is going
to be, those types of things. Then how to bolt

(36:31):
on the aesthetic side to keep the maintenance because the
last thing you want to do is go through this
you know, impactful surgery and then not have it be
the ultimate desire you want. You have that maintenance. You
have to have a continued you know, desired outcome, and
we're going to continue to age, right, and so you
really have to think about that. Also as a patient,
we age every day and all we can do is

(36:51):
really invest in ourselves. So it's great to hear that,
you know, you've jumped into social media, found that voice,
found that tone, you know, the new guy into a
into a new town if you will in three years
is you know, it's not like you were born and
raised there and word spreads right, and it can spread
the wrong way, it can spread the wrong way. You know,

(37:12):
you start doing stuff that's in a new town, is
the new guy and you know, maybe putting misinformation out
there or not being honest, not being transparent whatever. You know,
there's a lot of shit going on in the industry,
and you know, you could just crush your reputation and
you know, like your entire career could just you know,

(37:33):
go out the wind. And so it's just like I
think asthetics, surgery, especially when we're talking about cosmetics, you
have to be so trustworthy. It's even if they find
you on the internet. They go to the you know,
they go to Google, conduct a search, they find you.
They go to Instagram, they find you. They like your personality,

(37:53):
they like your trust, they go to your reviews. You know,
chances are they're going to find somebody that either follows
you and they're going to drop them a note and
they're going to reach out, Hey, what do you think
of this doctor? Did you have you had, you know,
a surgery by him? Have you been to their bedspot
people talk, right, the town I live in, population is
not that big. Everybody knows everybody. And if you are

(38:16):
transparent and you do a great job and show up
and actually are honest and not try to sell them
like when they come in and because eventually they'll come around, right,
the issue is going to continue to bother them, all right,
And so that's on them. If they want that to
continue to bother them and they're not ready, that's okay.
But if you try to shut it down, their throw

(38:37):
and you know, come off and you know, just a
an odd personality that is pushy and not transparent, not
being an educator because as a provider, you guys, you're educators.
That's what you are. We need to be educated on
how we can feel better, look better, build confidence. We
all want to build confidence. We all want to look better,
feel better, all that stuff. But we want to know
that we can trust the person we're talking to.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
Cooleiration today not sorry, not today, yesterday? Literally who I
saw her one year ago and she asked for a
procedure and I told her no, Okay, I said, hey,
I don't think that's a good idea or whatever.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
Okay, she I didn't see her back.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
She goes has the procedure, unknowing to me, had the
procedure with another surgeon, and then came back.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
A year later, which is yesterday, and said, hey, by
the way, I had to sing done. I know you
said no.

Speaker 4 (39:26):
Can we talk about other stuff now, right? And so
I said, okay, so like you you.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
Know me, that's fine. I'm not gonna hold it against you.
That's okay.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
And so we talked about a bunch of other stuff.
Now we're doing you know, face left and all this stuff.
So this other surgeon that she went to, it's a
good surgeon, right. But then, like I took her photos
from a year ago when I compared that to today
or yesterday, and I put the two together and I'm like,
I don't see a difference, right, this is why I
recommended against that previous I didn't tell her this, but like,
this is why I recommended against that previous procedure. So
internally I was like, you know what, I feel really

(39:54):
good about myself right now, just because like, sure.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
You might get caught up, oh you didn't do all the.

Speaker 4 (39:59):
Procedures, but like at the end of the day, you
just want happy patience, Like unhappy patients are way louder
than happy patients, right Like, Unfortunately, sometimes because it's plastic surgery,
things go incredibly well and no one knows about it,
right Like, they never talk about it again, which okay,
I get if people don't necessarily want to broadcast that
they've had procedures on which I'm never going to like

(40:19):
go hard on someone for that.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
That's fine, But like, hey, man, if they if they're
really unhappy, everyone's gonna hear about it.

Speaker 4 (40:25):
They're gonna talk and people talk to the friends about it,
and that gets that's way worse, right, So you've got
more compass for sure.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yeah, the unhappy, especially the wrong and happy person. You know,
there's people out there that will do everything they can
and make sure that you know, they focus all their
energy on seeing incremble. That's a real thing, you know.
I mean it's like I call them the yelpers, you know,
people that go and get one story views over the place.
But this is a different animal. I mean, we're talking about,

(40:57):
you know, transforming the human body, and you know, I
think there's a time and a place for it, and
if the time's not right, I mean, dude, again, respect
to you, to say no, I don't think it's the
right time. I don't think it's the right procedure. Whatever
that conversation was, she apparently didn't like that response when
you know, got something done and you know, came back
to you, and so there you have it, saying no

(41:19):
turned into it yes right there, and it probably if
I was to guess, I would assume that second go
around ticket, she's probably gonna have to invest more cash
to actually get what she wants done now versus the
if she saw you a year ago. Right, So, I
don't know, but that's that's what I've seen in the past.

Speaker 4 (41:38):
Yeah, No, and then you got to fix stuff and
you know, like right now, I've seen a bunch of
patients recently.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
I don't know why, but like people have gone abroad. Okay, okay.

Speaker 4 (41:47):
I get surgery, especially classic cosmic surgery. It's very expensive
surgery in general, it's expensive, right. The difference is like
insurance will cover a lot of that stuff if you're
having some sort of medical procedure, whereas what I'm doing
it's all out of pocket.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
Right, So, like, yeah, the the cost is high. It's
it's cost buys.

Speaker 4 (42:03):
The cost is hick for me too in terms of
the supplies and running and operating and all that. That's
also very expensive. Right, So I'm not out here trying
to scalp people. That's not what I do. It's just yeah,
the stuff that I do is expensive. Keeping the office
looking a certain way, it's expensive, Like we have a
beautiful space that wasn't cheap, right, so the you know,
the cost is high, but right, it's even more expensive

(42:24):
to fix things that have been done wrong the first
time around.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
Right. And so I've seen a bunch of patients recently
that went to Mexico once to wherever.

Speaker 4 (42:31):
There's all this talk right now with like the woman
that went to somewhere in Mexico and had her facelift down.
She had a great facelift, and every talking about that
going to Mexico but doing it all right, So nothing, listen,
I'm not here to bash surgeons and nothing great.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
Go for it, Like you want to go to Mexico
to your facelift cost and go for it. If you
have a bad result or a complication, are you going
to fly back to Mexico for them to deal with it?

Speaker 4 (42:51):
Are you going to go back to the surgeon to
have them clean it up or fix whatever they have
been done.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
Like I can tell you because this is a true story.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
Someone who went metas on the day of, doesn't know
who did their surgery, had a bunch of other surgeries
done at the same time that she didn't ask for,
And this is what she told me. I don't that's
true now, but like this is what she told me.
A bunch of other stuff was done that she didn't
ask for, and now she's dealing with all the results
of that, right, So like now it's like, okay, now
we got to fix stuff, which that's challenging, right, that

(43:19):
should have been done.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
To begin with. So you know these are the issues, right,
So there's nothing wrong with talking to multiple surgeons.

Speaker 4 (43:24):
Like a lot of my patients will get opinions from
different people in town. Great, go for it, But you
really want to trust the person that you're going to
have do your surgery. They're putting you asleep and you're
you're putting a lot of trust in somebody who is
going to make a lot of decisions about your face
when you are knocked out, right, So like you want
to trust that person and know that afterwards you're going
to ask some follow up and see them and have
a relationship with this person. So that's that's really what

(43:47):
the cost is. It's not like, oh, you know, my susers,
you're expensive, right like that. The relationship is what you're getting. Obviously,
the result that's what you care about. But I think
you get experience through that whole process. Like I get
very you know, I get a lot of questions about oh,
should go to this simple and I'm you know what
you want your face right, Like, I'm not gonna tell
you what to do. I can just tell you the
horror stories that I've heard. And sometimes it goes well

(44:07):
and sometimes it doesn't. And I know plenty of experiences
patients that have tried to reach out and say hey,
here's the thing, and they're.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
Like, well yeah, flow back to this the themle and
we'll redo.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
The surgery for X amount of money and it's like okay,
Like you know, so it's tough.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
It's a true situation.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
Yeah, that sounds risky, man, that sounds like that sounds terrifying.
I mean you brought up a good point. You know,
we're going to put you to sleep and we're going
to operate on your face and you're gonna wake up.
You know, your face is just an important asset in
the body, and I don't think it's a wise decision
to put that at risk. And you know, to your point, trust, accountability,
being honest, and being credible is so so important even

(44:46):
outside of surgery, right for the injectors. You guys, it's
it's absolutely critical.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
Women talk.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
They consistently talk. They have their group friends, they're you know,
yoga friends, whatever workout class, they are going to whatever
country club they're associated with. They talk. They want to
talk great things, and they definitely are also down to
talk about, you know, the bad experiences that they've had.
Who to not go to and I think that's probably
more talked about than who to go to, right, So

(45:11):
you've got to be very cautious there. Hey, you bring
up a great point too. The last thing you want
to do is think you're saving money, you know, go
to other country, something goes wrong, have to come back then, Okay,
am I going to go back to that country or not?
Right now, I'm going to actually go see a local doctors,
have them fix this and get me the outcome. I'm
looking forward. So now you're dealing with complications that were created. Yeah,

(45:34):
it you bring up some great points, right, I've never
gone to another country and had surgery done. I don't
intend to. And sure maybe that's for some people, and
maybe there's I'm sure there's some great surgeons all over
the world. I don't know. But what I'm trying to
get at is what's wrong with visiting somebody in your
local market that knows their stuff, that has delivered transformation

(45:55):
to your friends and family, colleague community. That's right down
the road. That's where I would go. And I think
that's like, you know, some people look at it as
saving some cash, but the risk factor it doesn't sit
with me, doesn't sit with me at all. So I
that those super helpful. Let's let's perfect. I want to
talk about like cash, cash flow, stability, finance. If you're

(46:19):
okay with that. Just because you have the surgical side,
which I know surgery is obviously you're going to bring
in more revenue than the medical aesthetics side, although medical
aesthetics is outpacing invasive surgeries right when it comes to
the industry, So talk to us about that. Like there's
high ticket items, but downtime means lost revenue, So like

(46:43):
what about numbers? So what do you think about the
economics when it comes to surgery versus the bespot.

Speaker 4 (46:48):
Yeah, I mean in terms of like evaluation and sort
of like overall market what you're seeing.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Of course, there's far more people doing.

Speaker 4 (46:54):
Non surgional than are doing surgery because being helping a
certain it takes seen years or whatever. So you know,
like the number of people doing it as much smaller,
so that that's going to limit the sort of you know,
how much of it is actually happening, which is not
a bad thing because you know, it's a surgery, so
there's a permanency to it in.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
Terms of like the met surgeon and the finances of
all that. I do think that.

Speaker 4 (47:18):
It's much more important to really lock down the numbers
and sort of like you know, your KPIs all that
kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
With the METS, with the aesthetic side, with a sort
of met SPA side. Because of the.

Speaker 4 (47:30):
Competitiveness of the industry, right, and like I can tell
you that like within the last year, there's been like
one brand new build out like.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
Across the street for me, there's two people like down
this other street.

Speaker 4 (47:40):
You know, it's like there's probably like four or five
metspoles within like a mile of me. And so yeah,
and that's just the ones that I know of. If
you google and you know, Portland's a.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
Small town, but it's like twenty minutes you get pretty
much anywhere in town.

Speaker 4 (47:50):
Then like there's a bunch, right, So then they're marketing
pretty heavily in Europe against that, right, Like when people
go to tai like both boat ox are here or whatever,
so you do have to really like nail it with them.
And so for better or worse, it's just a different philosophy.
Like when it comes to surgery, all the effort is
in the surgery and the recovery and then you're good
and like, of course maybe you do another procedure down

(48:11):
the road, but like the.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
Effort goes into that one sort of episode.

Speaker 4 (48:14):
Whereas when you're doing botox, for example, lots of things,
but like let's just say boatox because people know that is.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
Like you you got to do it. You've got to
be consistent over time.

Speaker 4 (48:23):
And if they're coming in four times a year, that's
a lot of times over the course.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
Of a few years, right, and for saying ole time,
you got to show up and be consistent.

Speaker 4 (48:30):
And like you know, so I think it's much harder
to consistently.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
Deliver a good product.

Speaker 4 (48:35):
It's like going to a good restaurant, Like how many
times have you gone to a good restaurant and you
had a great night and the food was perfect and
the dessert was a making and they like everything is
clicked and it was perfect, and then you go back
there with like you know, your partner whatever, and it's
just not the same, Like the magic just wasn't there. Right,
There's a lot of pressure to sort of perform at
that high level over and over and over again. And

(48:55):
I think you have that much more on the mets
fat side than you do in the surgery side, just
because it's just I don't want to say it's easier
to like do both eyes because you know, if you're
good at it, like sure, it's not that challenging, but
like there's so many variables there, okay that don't exist.
Like with the surgery, I'm a old team of people
there to assist me, right, Like it's like that's all
I'm doing. I'm focusing on the surgery for four hours
or marble on.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
I'm there and like everyone is there to help me,
and it's like much more controlled I think. So it's tough,
and I.

Speaker 4 (49:21):
Think that's where like you really need to lock down
the numbers because you talk about this all the time,
like you're marketing and all this kind of stuff, Like
that's where you really need to because it's such a
crowded market.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
So it's a different game.

Speaker 4 (49:34):
And that part for me personally as a surgeon, and
why I might want to do that, Like I know
plenty surgeons are like through that, it's gonna be surgery,
forget all the other stuff. Why would I bother with
the other stuff?

Speaker 3 (49:42):
And it's like, well, okay, like that is a path.
I know people that do that.

Speaker 4 (49:46):
That's a very successful path. I personally think that, like
I can offer a good service to patients who are
looking for those services, of which there's plenty. So I
think it's cool, Like why not build that and leave
a legacy and just have that be you know, my
contribution to this crazy place we live in, you know,
like cool.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
Let's do it. It's a challenge. I like challenges. Why not? Right,
So there's a certain it's a different day. For sure.

Speaker 4 (50:09):
The finances are different, the marketing strategy is different, the
way you manage the team is totally different, right, So
lots of differences for sure. Yeah, and I'm still learning,
you know, like you probably know more about this business
stuff than I do.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
Like I'm still figuring this stuff out. I'm drinking from
a fire.

Speaker 4 (50:25):
Hose right now when it comes to like all of
the business stuff, right like just managing the metsafe, really
optimizing revenue, all those all those kinds of things, Like,
I'm still very much learning all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Yeah, it's a lot to take in it. It's a
big role, right, It's an entire other role. In fact,
I had a Gal Pardner's sister on the show recently.
One was a CEO, one was the director of the
clinical side, right and so, and they had very different
descriptive definition roles on who did what, and it worked

(50:56):
really well. I Mean one has no idea anything that
has to do with the clinical aspect of dealing with patients.
The other one has no idea about business, and they
don't want to. They kind of know there's some overlap there,
I guess, but just by default, right, But they know
they stay in their lane and they know it works,
and they've been very successful. I just want to build
on one thing because there's there's more. And I'm maybe

(51:16):
just curious about Portland and Portland, but in general I
guess as well, is there more financing? Are you seeing
more financing on the surgical side or a people coming in,
how are they paying for these higher treatments in today's economics.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
Yeah, it's very age dependent. So I think most people.

Speaker 4 (51:36):
Like thirties and up, we're doing typically more like aging
face related.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
Procedures like facelifts and things like that.

Speaker 4 (51:43):
They tend not to do the sort of care credits
and cherries and the other things that are out there
in terms of financing which we have.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
They tend it's the younger patients that tend to do
that stuff.

Speaker 4 (51:53):
So like the rhino plastic patients, because they tend to
be younger, like anywhere from eighteen up to like whatever age,
but like usually they sew younger. So those stations tend
to do a lot more of that stuff. And so
age is a big thing. Like it's the forty year
old who's like you know, big tech executive who just
has a little bit of stuff here, he just wants
to clean things up.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
They don't care.

Speaker 4 (52:14):
They got the disposed want to come there, like whatever
it costs fine, let's do it next week. The other patients,
I would say it probably hasn't changed that much in
terms of like the percentage of people that are seeking.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
Financing, at least in my own practice.

Speaker 4 (52:27):
I'm only one person, you know, importand but that's that's
been my experience.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
Okay, Yeah, I was curious there. And then as you
look at the met spot and the surgical side, do
you see the met spot is like, is a cash
flow engine that feeds the surgical center or is it
the opposite?

Speaker 4 (52:45):
Yeah, I mean, for now, in the growth phase, it's
definitely the opposite. The surgery is kind of driving everything else.
My hope is that in the future they can both
be sort of mutually beneficial in terms of like blow
between the two. It's I'd kind of take on younger
injectors that you know are I'm training them, right, and
like it's great, awesome, I'm happy to do that.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
I really enjoy teaching. I think that's a fun part
of what I get to do. That's not for.

Speaker 4 (53:11):
Everyone, right, And there's a certain risk taking in that,
like this person's not like a super experienced you.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
Know, they may not make it all the way there.

Speaker 4 (53:17):
And then you've been invested all this time and money
and whatever, so you have to be okay with that.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
For me, that's a sort of a rewarding challenge, so
I take it on.

Speaker 4 (53:25):
Eventually, the goal is to be able to take my
foot off the gas a little bit to where now
maybe my surgery practice is so mature that I can
really just operate a couple times.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
A month and just have a younger person that I'm
brought in.

Speaker 4 (53:38):
Maybe I have a fellowship where life this is what
surgeons do, what's they're going into something like I do
like facial classic surgery with fellowship after your residency train.
So that's a one year thing, and so I may
do that in the future where I have certain that comes,
you know, send it here with me. And so at
some point maybe I hand off some of the practice
to a younger associate so that I can, you know,
do more just.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
Folks on business stuff and let them do the fun stuff.
You know. Maybe that's where we're going.

Speaker 4 (54:01):
So eventually I do see the non surgical as sort
of like maturing a lot. I would say the surgery
practice is certainly stable and will be growing. The mets
spot absolutely in a growth face like we.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
Are just figuring out I as an owner, are just figuring.

Speaker 4 (54:15):
Out, like the fundamentals, is like really locking down the
numbers that you talk about all the time, Like I
know some I don't know as many as I should,
you know, and I certainly have not gotten to the
point where I'm like really making tactical decisions on the
go based on those numbers.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
But that will come a time.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
Gotcha.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
Very cool? Very cool.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
I mean, you've done a great job, and I completely agree.
I think obviously that the surgery is going to be
the perfect revenue platform and biggest driver for the practice.
You obviously see that as you continue to mature. I
mean we're talking a year into the into the business,
right wait till year two, year three, year, four, year five,

(54:54):
You're going to see everything just running so cohesively that
you know, you're gonna have surgical patients and then sex
patients and medical SETX patients go to the surgical side,
you know, And I think you know, as you guys
continue to evolve and continue to double down into your
patients and growth and marketing strategy and business acumen, Uh,
you're going to see that naturally. So I think I
would agree with your thesis. I think it's it's very

(55:16):
very bright and wise as you as you. That brings
me my last point. As you continue to look at
the future right you you you you have things mapped
out really nicely. I'm curious to know where things.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
Go from here?

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Do you go to multilocation? How you think of like
what about education and speaking panels? You know, conferences? How
to stay innovated, you know, versus being burnt out? Not
saying that, but burnouts real, not saying that you are,
But what are your what are your thoughts on the future.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
Yeah, it's a real thing. I will tell you.

Speaker 4 (55:51):
I'm very happily married and my wife is incredible. She
helps out a little bit in the practice. She's a
doctor herself. She's Nancysylo and she's in my backbone. And
maybe that's apprechiate it, but like, I do not.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
Think I could do this by myself.

Speaker 4 (56:03):
We have two wonderful kids and we both do a
lot of parenting. She probably does more than I do,
just because we're just that's kind of our energy.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
I'm like the fun one, she's like the responsible one,
you know when.

Speaker 4 (56:14):
It comes to that stuff. But I feel like you
need to have fundamentals taken care of. Like, if your
whole life is a total mess, it's going to bleep
over into you work life, right, So like that needs
to be sort of like step one. So we're good,
They're awesome. There's been a lot of stress I've been
dealing with them in the past year. That like that's
all helps kind of deal with that. And so you know,
I have I have life outside of work too. I

(56:35):
you know, it was doing duditsy for more time. I
stopped because you know, I broke a figure out. I
was like, oh, can't keep doing this. But uh, you know,
you gotta have hobbies outside of work. You gotta have
interests outside of work. And so because that, we show
up better when you are at work, right, you feel
like you accomplished something and then you get back to it.
So the growth in terms of like where I want
to go from here, I've got my team, I've got
the people in the right spot right like they're here,

(56:57):
they're on board, they have the same energy, like we
have a great time here. So then okay, so now
what right, So I really just want to continue to grow.
I think the locations is cool. I love you know,
if you don't Oregon, like Bend is super cool. I
love vendor. Maybe we venture out at some point start
adding locations. I don't know, I'll put a river's gorgeous.
Like maybe at some point if you haven't pronounce to

(57:17):
any of those places, you should really go. But you know,
for now, I really just want to like nail down
fundamentals of running a practice. And so this is why
I hadn't hired like a practice owners, because I really
want to understand what it takes to run a practice
at a.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
Very high level.

Speaker 4 (57:32):
If you read like the e Myth revisited Michael Gerbert's
a business book that talks about like the whole thesis
of the book essentially is like, all right, this baker
who wants to start a bakery, and then she starts
the bakery but ends up hating it because she really
just likes the act of baking, hates the idea of
actually running a bakery, and you have to kind of
get out of that technician mindset to be a good
business owner.

Speaker 3 (57:51):
That's the whole point of the book. I agree, And like,
these are people.

Speaker 4 (57:56):
Like Ed Williams, who I don't know if you've talked
to him on the podcast, but he's a fantast business
guy to talk to. He's a facial plastic surgeon out
in New York. He's upstate, and so he a lot
of stuff from him. I have a big network of
people that I go to and talk to all the
time about this stuff. We end a meeting coming up
in September to in LA this year. But I go
to these conferences every year. We have our Facial Class

(58:16):
of Surgery Conferences to af PRES and I get rejuvenated,
I get excited, I get really I come back with
all these ideas about like, oh man, I love what
we're doing, to try this, to try that.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
So you got to do these things. You definitely have
to go to conferences.

Speaker 4 (58:28):
You've got to continue to innovate because the day you
stop innovating, you're a dinosaur, right, Like you're gonna just
age out. And it's like things keep moving constantly, like
glp ones, Where did that come from?

Speaker 3 (58:39):
Right? Like all this stuff. You got to stay on
top of what's happening, and so you know, the conferences
are a good way to do that.

Speaker 4 (58:47):
I do a lot of speaking engagements because I enjoy it,
Like it's fun to educate at one point, I thought
I was going to be like a research professor and
like apply for grants and all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
So like I do like the sort of research and
the education part of it.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
So you know, I partner with the industry and do
that cool, why not, Like if it's a good product
and I believe it, make sure.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
I'll talk about it, like why not?

Speaker 4 (59:07):
Like cool, But it's just another way to talk about
the stuff that we're doing.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
And so I think those are great opportunities. And plus
you network with people when you.

Speaker 4 (59:15):
Do that stuff, and you meet other really exciting people
in the community who are doing some cool things and
they can teach you something too. So I think being engaged,
being sort of like getting to know the community and
networking within the community is super important.

Speaker 3 (59:28):
As cliche is that is that you can't do this
in isolation. You need other people to talk to and
like get things going with, right, Like you can all
work with each other.

Speaker 4 (59:37):
And like I see plenty of people especially listen, like,
let's be honest, plastic surgeons are not the most collaborative
group of people, right, Like they're not.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
And so that's I think to our like it's not
a good thing.

Speaker 4 (59:49):
I think it would be better if we were more
collaborative because we're all there's enough people for us to
go around, right, Like.

Speaker 3 (59:55):
I'm not it's not like a you know, like.

Speaker 4 (59:58):
Collaboration is really I think, what ha because at the top,
and I think if you just all just check our
egos at the door a little bit and just said,
you know what, like let's just make it better for everyone,
everything would get better.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
And so there's plenty of patients, right, people will find
you based on your style, based on your results, based.

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
On whatever it is. So why not share a little
bit more about that?

Speaker 4 (01:00:18):
Like when I really got into the cosmetical that I
realized like.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
Oh, like nobody's talking about what they actually do.

Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
You know, it's this black box. And okay, that's too
for me. But I'm kind of an open book, you know,
like I'll share. People come and hang on the r
all the time with me.

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
They're like, oh, can I watch your facelift?

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Sure?

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Come, Like absolutely, I would love to have you in there,
you know, like yours just compile all the time and
we do it all the time.

Speaker 4 (01:00:41):
So I just I don't know, I don't I don't
try to like gatekeeping my people.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:00:46):
I don't think that's the way to do it, at
least not in my hands. So you know, I want
to just continue to do that over time. I'm having
a lot of fun doing what I'm doing. Is it
fun every day? You know?

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
Some days are incredibly stressful, but like whatever, man like,
it's it's job.

Speaker 4 (01:00:58):
We're all going to have days that stuck, right So,
you know, really getting to the point where my like
future goals, I want to have a fellowship. I want
to have a fellow come with me and train with me,
and that it would be gratified to me and hopefully
to the fellow they learned something. Mainly because there's a
lot of business stuff that I've learned in the last.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
Year to five years that I had no idea about.

Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
That we never talked about in medical school, we never
talked about in training at any point.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
It's like I'm not supposed to.

Speaker 4 (01:01:22):
Talk about the business stuff, right, Like it's like a
bad word to talk about business stuff. I don't think
that's good for us. I think, honestly, on a national level,
that's hurting doctors. We're getting killed by the hospitals and
by the just insurance world, right like there's a reason
cosmetic practice is because I was like, screw it, I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
Not dealing with insurance.

Speaker 4 (01:01:37):
I'm not doing any of this stuff. I'm going to
do my own thing, just do what i'd like to do. So,
you know, I don't I think we have a lot
of room to learn as far as doctors and business,
right Like, I don't think it's a bad thing to
mix it too.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
I think you need to understand what to do the
other really well.

Speaker 4 (01:01:52):
So continuing to grow there the fellowship for sure, growing
in Metspot for sure, other locations, I don't know, we'll
get to the point where, you know, like honestly the
completely frank with you, I don't know what numbers I
would need to run to, like say, is this the
good business decision or not.

Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
I want to get to the point where I do
know that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:08):
I know people like you were much better about that
than I am, so like, great, maybe I need to
talk to you about it, but like that's that's down
the road once things are a lot more like I
really understand what we're doing here. And then finally, okay,
it doesn't make sense to like expand or whatever, and
certainly open to that, but I think you always have
to be a lifelonger learner, and that's hopefully what I'm doing,
and I enjoy it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
Right, So, like my life has.

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
Been science and you know, surgery and all this kind
of stuff. Now it's business, right, and like, of course
you got to keep up with the surgery stuff because
it's constantly changing. And so that's what the conferences are for.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
That's what you know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:40):
We all kind of learn from each other too, so
you're always learning, but always growing. And when I get
to the point where it's not funning anymore and I
just enjoy learning, that's when I'm like, all right, cool,
like someone else who's got the energy, come on in,
Like I'm aut right, I'm gonna go travel and hang
out my great kids or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Yeah, yeah, that's perfect.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
I mean, you're network is your network.

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
Guys.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
You have to continue to go to conferences. So if
you haven't been too a some in a while, I
know that I've seen, you know, people that are pretty
consistent of going to conferences. Others I see them fall off.
And you know, to your point, you know, you if
you stop innovating, you become a diasaur. And I firmly
believe in that. And it's it's interesting every time I
come back from a conference, and most providers practice owners

(01:03:22):
I talk to when they come back from the conference,
they're pumped. You get out of your comfort zone, You
get out of your practice, You get out of your
own you know, comfortable environment where you you know, you
go to the office, the practice, you got all your company,
little setup, Go throw yourself out there, you know, go network,
go you know where the the awkward breakfast is where
you got to get up in the morning, the offer

(01:03:42):
awkward you know, coffee station and get up on stage
and talk and you know, or if you're not ready
to talk, get to know the speaker that's talking. You know,
go to these events and you're going to come back
with a tremendous amount of fire and you know, a
new way of looking at things. You're going to build
a big network. I know that people that go to
most or conferences they build this network around the entire us.

(01:04:08):
And so maybe there's not competition, well, I guess people
can file over the place and get surgery, but really
not really competition. You build this network of colleagues and
where you can share ideas and what's working, what's not working?
A cool new technique, somebody that you met on the
business side of things, the marketing side of things, the
finance side of things. And to your point about going

(01:04:29):
and opening up another location, you don't even know what
that looks like, what revenue I need to do to
do that. Well, you're only a year into the business,
and so I think you're doing you know, just find
you're doing everything the way you should be doing it.
And you know, there's a certain point in time where
it's you know, do you want to take that on.
Does it make sense financially, does it make sense to geographically?
There's so many factors that go into it. I see

(01:04:49):
a lot of practice owners that open up location too
when they have no business opening up location too. They're
running a fifty percent capacity and they think they want
to go for a location too. And to me saying, okay, well, shoot,
when I go buy a piece of real estate a
multi family unit that's half full and then go buy
the next building, or do I want to building that
I have and make it full capacity, that's probably the

(01:05:11):
right idea, right, And so you know you're you're you're
doing it. I mean, you've been through a lot in
the year one. You've always been through five years and
year in one year, and uh, and you're obviously getting
through it great. You're reading the right books, you're doing
all the right stuff. And do I have a ton
of respect for you or you're a quick learner and
and this is great. I've had a ton of fun

(01:05:32):
and I know you're going to be super successful going forward.
That's awesome that you have your wife on your team.
I do as well, and I don't think us you know,
they always say, you know, a smart guy, a smart businessman,
a smart surgeon, if you will, there's always, you know,
a very significant ether that's behind the scenes, that's making
sure that the foundation is put together. So that's right.

(01:05:53):
He's your stuff in order at your house, and therefore
you can go outside your house to start to scale
your practice and your business. So yeah, really appreciate it
having you on. I know that you are super busy.
I know that you have patience to see and make
sure not to break those hands. We need those. Those
are your money makers. Don't break those fingers, man, we

(01:06:13):
need those, thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
Of course, where if people want to find you, they
want to see they want to connect with you. What's
the best place Instagram your website, you tell us, Yeah,
so Booker.

Speaker 4 (01:06:26):
Totally find Portland facedoctor dot com all sold out as
the website and my Instagram handle Portland Face Doctor. Also,
I have an Instagram for the practice. My own personal
Instagram time on is just d R Peter V. I
l a my name doctor Peter B.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
So yeah, I'm more active on that one than on
the Portland Face Doctor account. But either one of those
is fine. And you can check out our results. You
can check out how we do things here, and we
have fun awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
Thanks so much for coming on, And I'll leave it
at that, guys, so go check them out, Go drop
him a DM, Go look at his website. He's done
a one wonderful job of putting his getting his marketing
position out there. His website's absolutely stunning. He shares a
tremendous amount of advice and information on Instagram, and he's
obviously making an impact for the local community. And so
I'll leave it at that until next time. Happy injecting.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Thanks for tuning in to Medical Millionaire every week. We're
here to help you transform your practice into a thriving
profitable venture, covering everything from marketing and patient bookings to mindset, workflow, automation,
and beyond. Whether you're just starting out, scaling up, optimizing operations,
or planning your exit strategy, this podcast is your go

(01:07:41):
to resource for success in the medical aesthetics industry. It's
time to supercharge your practice and take action today. Share
this episode with a fellow entrepreneur, Rate the show, and
don't forget to click the link in the show notes
to access powerful tools and expert guidance at get dot
growth dot com, slash MM, and make sure to tune

(01:08:04):
into the next episode of Medical Millionaire

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