Florida Cattle, Wiregrass, Weeds and Politics Part 2

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
And we are back on Arbitoms Roy's radio show. It's
the Bookworms today with Ralph Nathan Oko.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
And my dear friends, and that is Charles and Jill Cercy,
who are my neighbors in here in Uribe what liver
around the high school. And I got to tell you
I love living there. I just love the community. I
love the people and all the oak trees throughout the
entire little community. So we're talking about Jill's parents, Herb

(00:37):
and Muncie Chapman, who wrote, initially in nineteen ninety eight
and published by Pineable Press, the book Wiregrass Country, and
really one has nothing to do with the other, but
they do because to me, I've read Wiregrass Country after
I read A Land Remembered and it was almost like

(00:59):
a sequel. Different, maybe a thirty forty to fifty time
zone difference, but the concept of romance, adventure, farming, cattle history,
Florida all above made this book Wiregrass Country a book
that you start the book, you're going to lose some sleep,

(01:22):
you don't want to put it down, and if you're
reading it in between, you're going to go real quick
between place one and place two, so you can continue
reading it that's how strong an affinity I have for
the book. But I never thought about till I said
it just before the middle of the before the commercial
they had based on what you just described about how

(01:47):
the in Wiregrass Country, how the Dover family treated the
Indians with respect. But then the Dover family was very
full of rescis back in honor. They believed that they
had faith, they were good people. Why wouldn't you naturally

(02:07):
grow up realizing that mom and Dad are the Dovers
to me? Until today, I never realized it because look
at you. Know, You've told me a lot about both
your families, and I realized your folks were different than
the Circe. But what I'm saying is, but both of
you come from the same background, close family news. Think

(02:30):
about that, and that's a wonderful tribute. Yes, the value.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
So now, okay, so.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
We talked about Arcadia, but I'd like you to just
a little bit because I'm enamored with the city.

Speaker 4 (02:45):
This.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
I don't even is it a city, a town, a village.
I don't even know what it is.

Speaker 5 (02:49):
It's a city. It is a city in Desda County.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Okay. It's a lovely town.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
I mean, it's one of those towns that it's like
the Bermuda Triangle. When you cross a certain what is it,
seventeen or twenty seven seven?

Speaker 5 (03:04):
Seventeen goes through there.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
Seventeen, Okay.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
As soon as you cross seventeen going west, all of
a sudden, you're like in another world. And when you
drive into Arcadia, I can I can distinctly believe the
wide Earth was there, and you had the you know,
the fights and the bars and drinking and the whatever
other good bad stuff that take place. But that's what

(03:29):
made the character, and that gave the character of the Arcadia.
Now you came from Wachula, which is like very nearby.

Speaker 5 (03:37):
It was about twenty miles north of Arcadia.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Now, what is the significance of Arcadia in Wiregrass Country?
Weed said, the wiregrass and Wiregrass politics, Arcadia, the history
of Florida, the constitution before the statehood, the cattle bearings,
the beef of thee they were at the trails.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Arcadia I think played a major rule.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
In a lot of that, and it came in I
think it started in the Wiregrass Country in the first book.

Speaker 6 (04:09):
I don't remember the significance of Arcadia in the book.
I mean it's there, but I don't.

Speaker 7 (04:17):
I think most of the I think that the Dovers
would leave their wilderness whenever they went south a little
bit to open up some of that, and they would
go to Tampa and Tampa they also was aware that
they would ship the cattle, and so they probably would
pass through Arcadia. I would think it would be like

(04:39):
a pass through. I don't remember that much about Arcadia
in the book either, and I just finished rereading the
Politics book, and I don't think there was a mention
of that. There was mention of Fort Pierce in that book, yes,
quite a bit, yes, and that was the closest.

Speaker 6 (04:55):
Well, there's one thing, and it may mentioned in the
book Arcadia was uh.

Speaker 5 (05:04):
Wachula was a part of Desoda.

Speaker 6 (05:06):
County, which is Arcadia, and also uh Punta Gorda. They
were all one. All those towns were in Desoda County.
And then when the constitution came about, they split Arcade.

Speaker 5 (05:20):
They split Wachula.

Speaker 6 (05:22):
Off into another city county, and they also split off
Punta Gorda.

Speaker 5 (05:27):
But that they were all together.

Speaker 6 (05:29):
It was a big you know, one hundreds of thousands
of acres of the same kind of people as we're
in Arcadia.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
So it's in fact almost like a planned compromise in
order to accomplish a goal the statehood via constitution or constitution.

Speaker 6 (05:47):
Okay, that's and some really important politicians have come out
of Arcadia and uh and currently yeah, currently, and in
years past, they had a group from North Florida where
the uh wiregrass uh occurs up there, that were their

(06:10):
senators and I think there were senators.

Speaker 5 (06:12):
Called the Port Chop Gang.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
What's that.

Speaker 6 (06:15):
There were several senators that controlled everything that went on
in the state of Florida. They were powerful landowners and
they I mean they got the Moniker uh.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
The point of Port Chop Gang and uh.

Speaker 6 (06:31):
There they were infamous that I happened to know a
couple of the ones that were on that Uh there's
bad Port Chop Gangs. They did a lot to develop
this whole count They were very conservative conservationists, believe it
or not. Uh, and they developed that whole west coast
of Florida.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
So they're not just in it for themselves. They for everybody,
including ourselves.

Speaker 7 (06:56):
Okay, And I think in that book the Dovers wanted
they wanted actually in the politics book, they wanted to
get another steamship steamboat. Second one, because they wanted other
people to be able to carry their cattle without having
to drive their cattleong distances. So yeah, they really were

(07:17):
They really wanted to help other people. They weren't just
for themselves. They wanted the cattle industry to grow, They
wanted people to be successful and what they were doing,
and they were good people.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Without going into too much giving away of the book,
ash that the patriarchy of the family, I think that's
the best description he was, didn't He become part of
the Constitutional Convention and a big role in the decision
making and sometimes in the bumping knuckles, you know sometimes

(07:48):
that he became a compromiser, trying to kind of put
the the the groups that are kind of bumping heads
together for the best, for the better of the or
for the good of it.

Speaker 6 (08:00):
And I think they put him on the banking and
education Education committees when they were doing that bumping. I
would have thought they would put him on the agriculture.
He was in banking and he said that was the
hardest job you ever had, trying to get those the
different parties together because they wanted to.

Speaker 7 (08:19):
He felt like he had fifty six different opinion.

Speaker 6 (08:22):
Well, they initially they wanted to and I think it's
in both books, but initially they wanted to have two
states West Florida East and East Florida.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
That goes back to the Spanish English.

Speaker 6 (08:35):
But he was able to somehow know to get that
guy taken care of and they just had the one state.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
But did you realize if your parents hadn't written the book,
Ace would not Dover wouldn't have been alive, and we
might have.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
Check check now the book itself.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Let's go back to the first one, am I right,
you're talking about rounding up wild cattle, congregating them and
then having trail drives.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
There's no no uh uh what do it called wire? Sawgrass?

Speaker 2 (09:15):
There's no not saw grass wire, there's nothing separating farms.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
It's all open grade yeah, and uh jumping.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
I think it was nineteen forties, wasn't it nineteen thirties
where they ended up getting the fire wire? Thank you
couldn't think of pretty red I mean within the ass
under the airs. Yeah yeah, but going back so in
those days, so now they would hope with a bunch
of trail hands they would literally find their own way.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
Remember there's no roads, no bad.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Nothing, and they would get to the west coast to
the where the ships are. They would sell it to
the captain or the buyers. They would load uh the cattle.
They get paid in gold. And now they got as
much of a problem was bringing the cattle over there.
Now they had to worry about bringing the gold that they.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
Got paid with. How do you come back? All that's
in the book, Yeah, and that and that would be
a uh uh.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Treatht the the son, the hero son, the good guys.

Speaker 7 (10:20):
And actually in the politics book they come to their
grant and try to yes, get their gold.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
All the bad anything you can think of that the
bad guys could think of that we good guys couldn't
even think of or manufacture. It's in these books. You
got to read them. So what if we not discussed
about in the wiregrass country? What if we not discussed
on that that you would like to highlight to it.

Speaker 6 (10:50):
Well, it's important to me that this happens to be
Norwegian wiregrass. But uh doctor doctor Chapman and nurse dedicated
the books to to their mothers, Lauren Treff Chapman and
and Janela Bellow Gallagher. And you know, I read all

(11:14):
these things that I never picked up on that. But
that's the family thing you're talking about.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
And that goes back Treffy.

Speaker 7 (11:28):
And actually my name is also okay, my name is
Jenny La. Also I was named after my grandmother.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
Well I didn't know that. Wow, that's amazing that that.

Speaker 6 (11:39):
Just impressed me that they thought enough of them to dedicate.

Speaker 7 (11:42):
The books to and they use their names in the books.

Speaker 5 (11:45):
The names in the books. Yeah, that was okay.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
I know we've got to take a commercial in the
second What where are Lorena treff Chapman, Lenora or.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
Janila below Gallagher? Are they still alive?

Speaker 7 (12:06):
That would be my grandmother's Oh, my grandmother's, my father's
mother and my mother's mother.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Oh okay, okay, now this book is loving dedicated to
the memory of our mothers. Okay, now I got it.
So Moncie, her maiden name was Gallagher.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yes, yeah, see I get that one O one.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Anyway, we're gonna I hope you guys are everybody out there. Well,
first off, thank you for being loyal to the bookworms
and the highwaymen and the our Veterans Voice Radio. It's
imnseally important for me to tell you that I'm of
no value to it to myself or to you unless
we're together. So I want to thank you sincerely from
the bottom of my heart. And now we'll take the

(12:49):
last stop break and we'll come back. We've got a
couple of more things to talk about, the weeds and
the wiregrass and wiregrass politics. We'll be right back everyone.

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Speaker 3 (14:04):
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Speaker 4 (14:07):
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Speaker 2 (14:08):
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Really where eighteen seventy two Commerce Avenue?

Speaker 4 (14:14):
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Speaker 3 (14:15):
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Speaker 6 (14:31):
Wow, that's good news.

Speaker 8 (14:32):
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dollars are welcome young at home, and welcome back.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
To the Bookworms today with Ralph Nathan Oko on our
Red and Swis Radio Show, and.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Frank Sinatra and Charles and Jill Searcy and Furth and
Munsey Chapman, the infamous authors of Wiregrass Country, Weeds and
the Wiregrass I think you like that name of it.
Chole likes that name and Wiregrass Politics. So uh, we're

(15:04):
trying not to give you a lot of specifics because
we're trying to encourage you to read the books. But
the positive negative, the positive. You're able to find Wiregrass Country,
we're kind of readily easily, whether it's in local bookstores
sometimes you'll get the Vero Beach Library even but you

(15:25):
can get them on Amazon and probably eBay. But Weeds
in the Wiregrass and Wiregrass Politics. They were published in
two thousand and four by Whiskey Creek Press, and Whiskey
Creek Press is no longer in business, and so we're
working on it right now. What are you trying to accomplish?

(15:47):
Because I remember their encouraging says, hey, how can we make.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
This book more available?

Speaker 2 (15:52):
If it's not printed and not available, it's a short
print when they've printed it.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
What needs to be done so it becomes more readily available.

Speaker 7 (16:01):
Well, we've talked about trying to copy it and and
publish it ourselves, as what we were talking about today.
So I don't know. I can try to research the
company some more. You gave me the website and try
to research the company more. The thing is that the
company sold to somebody that's sold I think to somebody else,

(16:23):
and so I haven't really been able to run down
those those books.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
That's who olds to copyright the author and the author's.

Speaker 7 (16:38):
I mean the other book, the first book. I still
get the royalties from that book.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Okay, now, how can wait? So you're saying there's soap pup,
so Pineapple Press is printing, but.

Speaker 7 (16:51):
They sold to and I can't remember now, and you
know I never contacted them because.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
They're still in business.

Speaker 7 (17:01):
But but I never contacted the company that has the
rights to Wiregrass Country.

Speaker 4 (17:08):
You know, I get it.

Speaker 7 (17:09):
I get a royalty check. It doesn't come from Pineapple Press.
Pineapple Press sold to somebody else.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
So that's somebody else or somebody else after that. They're
the ones who send you a small check periodically. Yes,
if you have, you haven't communicated with them.

Speaker 7 (17:21):
I haven't with them. I mean they know they know
that my parents are both gone because the checks come
to me. But I didn't ever contact anybody about those.
I think there were so many things that I did,
and then by the time I anyway, I'll just have
to I'll have to research that more.

Speaker 6 (17:40):
We never thought a lot about doing anything about getting
the books printed.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
Until that's true. Cindy and I both feel very strong
about it.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
And people i've lent it to are like second and third.

Speaker 5 (17:59):
Yeah, thought about.

Speaker 7 (18:02):
You're right, we never do think about it.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
I hope I'm not going to get to blame that credit.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
But I'm flattered because Cindy and I just I really
as soon as I became familiar with them, because you
brought this to my attention, and I think he gave
me both at the same time, and.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
I just read one right into the other.

Speaker 7 (18:21):
Right, But I got to just and I have been
to Vero Book Center to see they could help me,
and they tried, okay, but they didn't you know, they
didn't go anywhere with it either.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
So well, Chad and Elizabeth were in quite a shop there.

Speaker 7 (18:38):
They all love that store.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
They've really I marvel what they've done. You know, the
days of a little bookstore gone. You're right, and the
book Center to us is a little bookstores, not this
is about his professional a bookstore, well run, family oriented, right,
and they ordered the signers that they get. They're the

(19:01):
right in the ballpark on all the big leagues.

Speaker 8 (19:03):
Yeah they are.

Speaker 7 (19:04):
Yeah, well, and you know that my parents every time,
and my mother published some books, but they always sold.
I mean they would go to do a talk and
they would be well attended, so a lot of their
books were sold out of that store.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
That's fantastic. Okay. So now.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
I have a feeling, just by talking the childs Am,
I right, that you really got into the weeds in
the well seriousness the weeds, the weeds in the Wiregrass book.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
You really got into that.

Speaker 5 (19:34):
Wah.

Speaker 6 (19:34):
Yeah, yeah, you want to share it with well the
thing that as as was in the Wiregrass. Once you
start reading it, you can't put it down.

Speaker 5 (19:45):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (19:46):
It interested me because there were so many bad guys
in the weeds and weeds in the Wiregrass, and I
just loved reading about how the dovers get away and
they did away with the bad guys. They found them
down in the swamps up in.

Speaker 5 (20:04):
Uh uh northwest Florida.

Speaker 6 (20:07):
Uh And for some reason, the guns always seemed to
go off, but they got shot at and they killed
a lot of people. And it's surscribed it in the books,
But that's the way our territory was.

Speaker 5 (20:19):
It was wild. It was like Arcadia.

Speaker 6 (20:22):
Uh. It was wild fully and guns were the guns
and hanging ropes were the things that that straightened out
our state.

Speaker 3 (20:35):
Was there a lot of hangings, Yes.

Speaker 6 (20:37):
Sir, there's a lot of hangings in the do you think, yes, yes, they.

Speaker 5 (20:43):
Used to have a lot of in Wachula.

Speaker 6 (20:45):
In Arcadia, I've not seen that, but my dad saw
that in Wachula, and uh, you heard about it in Arcadia.

Speaker 5 (20:54):
But it was it was the wild West. It was
the wild West.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
And was it was it? Was it a written law
or unwritten law? You steal someone's horse, you're dead? Was
it a law or unwritten.

Speaker 7 (21:08):
I'm sure it was an unwritten laws.

Speaker 5 (21:11):
There weren't any laws.

Speaker 6 (21:12):
That's the purpose that Ace got involved in when they
put the constitution in very He said they had to
get some laws so that they could control.

Speaker 5 (21:21):
That, and and and and.

Speaker 6 (21:23):
Eventually get to the fence laws that we had up
in I think it was in the forties.

Speaker 5 (21:28):
I think we talked about earlier.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
Unbelievable how much long later on it took.

Speaker 6 (21:33):
But I mean they had families over in Watchul and
I'm sure in Arcadia by I'm just going to use
a different name. But were the people you're talking about
the fence jumping smiths or were they the fence cutting smiths?
And they were people that were I mean they would
cut fences and steal cows.

Speaker 5 (21:54):
Uh, it was the wild West.

Speaker 6 (21:56):
I'm telling you Arcadie and Watchula and all in that
area over there. But Weeds in the Wiregrass really talks
a lot about the dovers getting rid of the bad
guys and the troubles they had, keeping their cattle all together,
and then getting their cattle to market. Just I mean,

(22:17):
I'm telling if you get a chance to read it,
you need to do it because if you're like me, you.

Speaker 5 (22:23):
Won't be able to lay the boot down. Marl was riding.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
Cindya, am I right? This is the tail end.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
This is that we're almost a two minute.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Working Okay, to wrap it up, you just said it best.
By the way, what we're trying to tell you is
that this is a story above a family fiction. They
have lived through the early before mid thirties eighteen thirties

(22:51):
in Florida and what they had to do to survive
Wiregrass Country. Weeds in the Wiregrass, Wiregress Politics, Herb and
Muncie Chapman. If you need any other information to call me.
I'll be happy to share it with you. And Charles
and Jill thank you first.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Of all as your dear friends.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
But this additional story of the wild wild Florida so
I've right now.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
Based on time.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
We just want to say thank you very much to
the High Woman Art Gallery in Vero Beach, and thank
you to all of our veterans and their immediate.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Families, Doctor and Captain William Darby Glenn the Third Air
Force and First Responder.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Philip Henry Tedder Air.

Speaker 5 (23:49):
Force, Gerie R.

Speaker 7 (23:51):
Gerson Navy Korea.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
George David Todd Army Korea.

Speaker 6 (24:00):
Were John ed Honeyman Marine Corps, First Responder Vietnam, and
all of our other fallen heroes, Your brothers and our
brothers and sisters, thank you for your service.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
At the bottom of our heart, we proudly salute you.
Rest in peace.

Speaker 5 (24:25):
Forever. Mm hmmm m