November 5, 2025 • 25 mins
Two books tell us how, what, when, where to say or not say what we want. If this sounds confusing, put yourself in the place of keeping quiet not to offend, saying what you want, what you will or none of the above because you're talking with your non-verbal communication.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:21):
You make me feel so young.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You tuned Evergreen Media Network.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I am Cindy Schwartz and this is our Veterans Voice
radio show with Ralph Nathan Oko and it's the Buckworms today.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, and you make Frank Sinato, I'm Ralph Ocal feel
as young as can be. Thank you, and hello everybody.
I've been looking forward to sharing the airways with you today.
And as always I want to thank Cindy. Of course,
Cindy Schwartz, my right hand, my producer, So thank you
for being really always there for me. You're welcome and
(00:51):
I want to share with you. You know, sometimes you don't
know what's the biggest decisions all of us, Cindy, the
biggest decision every day to eat or where to eat,
where to go, or what to well. I have a
similar problem with what to read. You know. Reading is
just as moody as eating. You sometimes feel like something light,
(01:15):
sometimes historical, sometimes factual, sometimes little sweet romance. So I
was in the middle of reading a book that I
picked up at the bookstore and it just really hit me.
And I was about two three quarters of the way through,
(01:35):
about a couple of weeks ago, and my client, one
of my clients from the High Women Galleries. It's just
in a conversation mentioned that she's written several books and
the latest one is about women, and I said, well,
(01:56):
I'd love to read it, but only if you'll autograph
it for me. Well, she mailed a copy. I didn't
know it was coming. So I got the book. I'm
opening it up and then I realize, you know, I'm
in the mood, so I started to read that. Now
I'm three quarters of the way in the first book,
and now I'm reading the other book, and I'm going
(02:17):
back and forth between the two. So I want to
share both books with you today because really they're very applicable.
And the interesting is Cindy. I mentioned that to her
the first book, and she said she in the past
has had some experience with that, so she will share
with us on this. And as always, I want to
(02:37):
thank iHeartRadio for helping us share the podcast in the
international airwaves. So the first book I'm going to talk
to you about, but I will tell you about the
second because you'll see why the genres kind of interact.
The first book that I started was how to Read
a Person Like a Book. Now, I've never heard of
(03:01):
the authors Gerard Neiherenberg and Henry Calero. I don't know
if they've written any other ones, but the book is wonderful.
How to read a person like a book. What we're
talking about is body language, facial language, I language. So
we're going to talk about that. But the second book
(03:24):
comes in and the name is what the name is?
Did you say something Susan? Well, I didn't like one
part of it. Did you say something anyone not just Susan?
It could be a ralph in other words, Doctor Poulette
Dale D like David D. A l E. Wrote the
(03:46):
book book is wonderful and basically is did you say
something Susan? How any woman can gain confidence and assertive communication?
And I am removing the words Susan and the word
woman because you know we mailed. This is not about
a gender. We mail to have the same problems. How
(04:09):
any man can gain confidence with a sort of communication.
Let me give you an example about so I called
Susan and I say Susan. When you're on the road
today doing your errands, do me a favor. Go to
ABC Liquors and buy me a bottle of Mogan David
(04:34):
wine and Susan thinking about I got better thing she do, says, okay,
I'll do that for you, Ralph. Now Susan has obligated
herself to do something that she did not want to do.
So what she really wanted to say is, Ralph, I've
got a busy schedule. I'm sorry. No, I've got a
busy schedule. I am unable to get you the bottle
(04:58):
of wine you want. Not saying I'm sorry, she asserted
herself by saying no in a nice way, I'm too busy.
But if she didn't say it then did it, she
would be upset with herself. And that goes back to
the first book, How to Read a Person like a book. Now,
if I asked Susan that in person, either way she
(05:22):
did it, she would have wouldn't be happy. If we
were in person, and I looked at her face and
I said, Susan, can you, on your way during the
day stop by the liquor store and buy me such
and such and and Susan said, I'm very busy today.
I just don't have the time. Maybe another time. But
she won't be upset with herself. Whereas body language, facial language,
(05:48):
I language. If she said, oh, I'll be happy to
do it for you, Alf, but she'd be steaming on
the inside.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, were very resentful.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
At herself, me for having the audacity or for the request,
but for herself for the audacity not to stand up
and say, Ralph, I'm busy. I don't have enough time
to do my own stuff. So let's go to how
to Read the Person, and we're going to do to First,
I'm going to give you a review what I thought
of the book, and then I want to discuss the
(06:19):
table of contents in the book of how to Read
a Person like the book. Now, when you're reading a person,
imagine you and I are speaking, whether it's business, personal, family,
or whatever, and we work next to each other. And
by the way, the further away the easier it is
to have a cold into relationship, the closer you will
(06:41):
have either intimacy or family wise, it's a little harder
sometimes to be honest as you want to be, because
one or another somebody's not gonna be happy. Either you're
going to say yes and you're not gonna be happy,
or you're going to say no and somebody else is
not gonna be happy and you're going to look at
their eyes. You look at their face, or you look
(07:01):
at their body, their hands, their feet, how they're sitting,
how they're slouching, and so on. And we'll get all that,
and we got an hour to do it in. But
what I want to do is I want I'm trying
to share with you now, at the age of eighty,
I've learned a lot. And you know what, I've read
these two books and I've learned a lot there. So
nobody knows everything. Nobody no how to read a person
(07:26):
like a book. Well, first of all, it's a great book.
It to me, it's a mirror effect. Illustrations that in
the book they highlight the discussion points. Yes, pictures are
worth a million words. Sometimes the author would tell you
in a paragraph or two and both authors did this,
(07:47):
uh and uh. They would talk and then give you
an illustration, a real picture of people or caricature, a
drawing illustrating what they were just highlighting. And in both
cases you can catch the message so much better, Cindy,
when you're looking at the picture of the person that
(08:10):
was speaking and or spoken to, right, you really do right.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
They call it nonverbal community.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yes, very good. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. And
That's what they both say. Interesting, but the body talks
everybody everyone else, and I mean ours while as far
as when we talk, when is the last time you looked,
really looked at someone you're speaking to or someone speaking
(08:39):
to you. Are you all all all of you listening
to each other? Are you working? Actually? Are you looking
at each other? What are you seeing? And what are
they seeing? What I'm saying is when I speak to you,
you're looking at me, and what are you seeing? Are
(09:01):
my eyes reflecting that I'm having a pain or a
problem talking to you? Or am I exuding smiles and confidence?
And you can see my eyes kind of smiling at you.
And by the way, a real smile is not your face,
not your lips, not your mouth, A real smiles in
(09:23):
your eyes. Next time you're talking to people, look at
them looking me seriously. First of all, they'll know you're
speaking and talking to them because you're looking at them.
Look at their eyes. They'll tell you if they're listening. Now,
what are you going to do? I talk to you
and you're kind of fluffing it off? Geez, I don't
(09:44):
want to hear this guy. Now I'm talking to you
and I see you moving your eyes right to left,
or you turn your head. I know you're not listening. Well,
one of my choices want to say, hey, I'm talking
to you, not Tree, it's a problem, or what the
hell with them? If they don't want to listen and
I just stop talking, just not continuing, you'll know real
(10:10):
quickly if they're going to want to hear you or not.
Because if they think they were listening and they say, well, Ralph,
what are you saying? Then I know they were listening.
But if not, what am I going to do? Start talking?
Stop talking or walk away? What would you do? This
is where the answers are in both these books. It's
(10:32):
interesting too, completely different the book, by the way, the
book How to Read a Person Like a Book Who
was written in nineteen ninety three. PAULLT Dale Doctor Dale.
Her book was written in twenty twenty one, So you
talk about twenty eight years apart. Yeah, that's a little
over a generation, big difference a generation. Do you agree
(10:56):
on the generation differences?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Cindy, Oh, absolutely absolutely, because a lot of times now
people don't even want to see each other in person,
and they don't do a lot of phone calls.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
It's all texting. And different things like that.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I have been to places like a restaurant or someplace,
and I see a couple of a man and a
woman or two friends sitting at cress from each other,
and they're texting by phone. They're not talking, they're not
speaking not they're not even verbal if there's something funny
or sad, but they're not personally. There's no interaction of communication.
(11:30):
And by the way, we're gonna take the break, I
want you to listen. Do you know what defective communication is? Everybody? Threefold?
You speak, I listen. That means I'm looking at you
when you're talking to me, and I let you speak.
You get through. Now I speak and you listen, and
(11:52):
we're looking at each other's eyes. I know you're listening,
and you know I'm looking at you. Now I'm done.
And what's the third feedback? That's when we communicate. We
may be totally disagreeing with everything we're saying, but we
respect each other as mature adults, as human beings. We
agree to disagree in a respectful manner. The word respectful
(12:17):
is kind of lacking right now in our society.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Well some ways it is.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
The Other thing, too, is to be mindful that you
have that communication. Yes, because a lot of people don't
know and they just think that you know what they're thinking.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
I've been in that situation quite a few times and
I'm like, I can't read I literally can't read your mind.
You have to say something or do something.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Well, that's part of the second book, Yeah, where somebody
would say something to you like, boy, you look like
you're geting a lot of weight, and you want to say,
go f yourself or go screw yourself, or how dare
you talk to me like that? Or you can say, now,
why would you say something like that? Yeah, you see
(12:59):
the difference of how communication is. But the real when
you gotta we're gonna take the break. Now take the word,
assume a s s ume, break it down, and when
we get back for the commercial, I'll break it down
for you in a informal way. We'll be right back everybody.
I hope you're enjoying. We're trying to improve our lives,
(13:22):
hours and yours. That's called communication. We'll be right back.
The book worms our Veterans Voice Radio.
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Speaker 1 (15:05):
Very can come through. It can happen to you.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
It can happen to you. Welcome back to our Veteranswie
radio show. Today's the Bookworms Ralph Nathan Oko.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
And I taught Frankie how to sing. Huh. He's a
good student. So we talk about how to read a
person like a book. So I'm in college. It's my
first year of college, nineteen sixty four sixty five, and
I'm taking a course. I think it was in speech
one oh one. And the professor goes to the blackboard. Yeah, chalkboard.
(15:41):
I don't know if they still have them at school
or yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I think.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Okay, And you were a big bold letters assume ass um.
And he takes up the chalk and he separates the
word to ass up and down vertical line. You vertical
up and down line. Now you have ass you mean assume.
You make a fool of yourself and the other person
(16:07):
by assuming. Never assume. If you've got a question, don't assume. Ask.
So going back to my review in the book, So,
the book itself, how to how to read a person
like a book obviously out of out of print, so
you' left you'll you'll find it for two three four
(16:27):
dollars whatever. But the book is a bible. It is
very simple to read, simple to follow, and simple to understand.
But you have but bye bye. But you have to
pay attention, uh to be it for effective communication? Remember
I just told you what the two three way street
of communication. Feedback is not effective the third step unless
(16:53):
steps one or two are effective, meaning listening, you speak,
I listen, I speak, you listen. If either one of
us is not, then feedback is going to be irrelevant
because it's not going to be effective. So let's discuss
the contents of the book. I really recommend this book
(17:15):
very highly because it applies to everyone. Body language is loud,
it is bold, this is me talking. It can be
very effective, but should be real, honest, not false or fake.
Here's what for you. I do with that periodically usually
negative and it becomes positive. When's the last time you
(17:37):
spoke to yourself in front of a mirror? I know
it sounds nuts. Try it. Make it. Have a discussion.
You and somebody you love, like or dislike, and you're
going to say, well, let's talk about the guy you
don't like. Ah saying I don't like you, I don't
like what you just said. You turn me off, and
(17:58):
your face is going to show it. And even if
I said, ah, Sam, I don't like what you said,
but I don't like you. I disagree with it, but
I respect it. I disagree. You see the different, But
look at your face when you're doing it, because what
you're looking at the mirror is what they see when
(18:19):
you tell them.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Man right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Try it. I know it sounds like, oh my god,
eighty or of you know, fuddy duddy. Ah. It's still
today as effected as there was nineteen sixties. For me,
I learned a lot from that speech, professor, a lot. Okay,
let's go through. I'll read a person like a book.
Let me throw something out to you. You're at the
(18:42):
job and your boss asks you to do have report
in front of a group of people that you may
or may not know all or some or your teacher
asks you to do it in front of an auditorium,
or your coach is telling you to speak in front
of a group of people in this what do you
(19:02):
how do you handle it? Oh? My god, I'm gonna
be bite your nails and you get you know, you're
you're gonna feel like like you're jumping out of a
plane twenty thousand feet.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Up without a parish you're right, Or you're.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Walking on a glass bridge twenty thousand feet over Thailand.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Or I want to say something when you get down
with this, Ralph, because we were talking about this after
our show yesterday.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Oh don't forget them. Yeah, okay, my speech teacher said, Ralph,
look at everybody and all you see is chairs. You
don't see the person. But when I am looking at
that chair you're sitting in it, I'm supposedly not seeing you,
but you're looking You're seeing me look at you, and
(19:43):
you feel special. So when I look across all the room,
everybody feels special. I just did that show with Indian
River Estates, and I gave it to this show about
the back of the history of the Highwayman, and I
walked up and down holding an apple or orange or painting,
and I'm looking at each individual and I'm talking. Because
(20:05):
speaking in front of a mic, that's a lecture. I
don't lecture. I speak one on one in front of
one hundred one thousand people. I don't care. So when
you're speaking to somebody, look at them, look like you
really cared.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
I was taught that in one of the classes I took.
I want to say it was like an eighth or
ninth grade, that when you do a speech, make eye
contact with each person in the room, you know, just
for a quarter or second or whatever, so they feel
included in exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So what yesterday, So yesterday.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
We were talking about people, was the first time a
person was on a video show and they were very,
very nervous and they were like, I don't want to
slip up, and I'm nervous and blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
And what we said.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
What they teach you too in these communication classes is
the people in the audience don't know what you're going
to say. Correct, So if you forget what you're going
to say, they wouldn't have known it any way.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
So they don't know that you forgot, you know, make
it up, just go to the next whatever the next
example would be, or just ad libit because they don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And that's why I I don't know. It was two
or three years ago. Uh. I made the decision that
I don't want to do interviews anymore. I wanted to
have conversations because of FDR, the fire Sunday night fireside chats.
When we have guests that we speak, we're communicating. They're talking,
I'm talking. We listen and I were speaking to you.
(21:30):
Unfortunately we're not hearing you, but you're hearing us. And
that's that's effective communication. Not where you can't speak to us.
That's not effective, of course.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
But uh.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
But as far as talking to the I'm trying to
find my spot there with the mirror. Uh.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
But uh, and good ad lib is hard to do,
but when she get used to doing it, it's easy.
It's actually better than notes all the time.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Correct. And the other thing is that I re recommend
the book. Uh also because uh, but you're gonna be
honest when you're speaking. Uh, And so have you. When's
the last time you really looked at people when they're
speaking to you or you speaking to them. Read the book.
It will make you a better person.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
What's the name of the book again, Ralph?
Speaker 1 (22:19):
And how to read a person like your book? How
do you stand? How do you What are your facial expressions?
Are you slouching? Are you crossing your arms? Are you
scratching your hair or your beard? Uh? Are you buying
your upper lip or lower lip? Are you squinting? Uh?
(22:44):
Are you sitting with your two legs one leg crossing
the other? Your body movement emotions are whether you're speaking
or being spoken to. That body language the facial expressions
that that's a speech or a language all of its own.
(23:04):
And when's the last time you paid attention to yourself
without a mirror when you're talking to somebody or they're
speaking to you. Have you ever thought about, Man, I'm slouching,
it's like I don't give a damn, or I'm moving
forward like I'm really paying attention. I got my hands
over like right now, I got my arms over my
(23:25):
thighs and I'm bending forward to the mic. But I'm
really speaking to you sincerely, and that's what I want
you to say. You could probably see my eyes smiling,
and that's what it's supposed to be. If I speak
to you like I care, that's how you will take it.
Even if you don't like or don't agree with everything
I'm saying, you'll respect me for the method by which
(23:48):
I said it to you. So we'll get back to
this book after the break, because we're going to go
to the second book. And you can see now when
we get to the second book, how effective says. So
we'll be right back the bookworms, our Veterans' Voice Radio
and iHeartRadio will be right back.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
And your contact informationial request.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
You can reach me seven days a week, daylight hours
nine five four five five seven six two two six.
I'm there for you. I'm no good without you. So
please call me for whatever reason and we'll talk a
little more we can. I'll be right back within a
couple of seconds.
You make me feel so young.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You tuned Evergreen Media Network.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I am Cindy Schwartz and this is our Veterans Voice
radio show with Ralph Nathan Oko and it's the Buckworms today.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, and you make Frank Sinato, I'm Ralph Ocal feel
as young as can be. Thank you, and hello everybody.
I've been looking forward to sharing the airways with you today.
And as always I want to thank Cindy. Of course,
Cindy Schwartz, my right hand, my producer, So thank you
for being really always there for me. You're welcome and
(00:51):
I want to share with you. You know, sometimes you don't
know what's the biggest decisions all of us, Cindy, the
biggest decision every day to eat or where to eat,
where to go, or what to well. I have a
similar problem with what to read. You know. Reading is
just as moody as eating. You sometimes feel like something light,
(01:15):
sometimes historical, sometimes factual, sometimes little sweet romance. So I
was in the middle of reading a book that I
picked up at the bookstore and it just really hit me.
And I was about two three quarters of the way through,
(01:35):
about a couple of weeks ago, and my client, one
of my clients from the High Women Galleries. It's just
in a conversation mentioned that she's written several books and
the latest one is about women, and I said, well,
(01:56):
I'd love to read it, but only if you'll autograph
it for me. Well, she mailed a copy. I didn't
know it was coming. So I got the book. I'm
opening it up and then I realize, you know, I'm
in the mood, so I started to read that. Now
I'm three quarters of the way in the first book,
and now I'm reading the other book, and I'm going
(02:17):
back and forth between the two. So I want to
share both books with you today because really they're very applicable.
And the interesting is Cindy. I mentioned that to her
the first book, and she said she in the past
has had some experience with that, so she will share
with us on this. And as always, I want to
(02:37):
thank iHeartRadio for helping us share the podcast in the
international airwaves. So the first book I'm going to talk
to you about, but I will tell you about the
second because you'll see why the genres kind of interact.
The first book that I started was how to Read
a Person Like a Book. Now, I've never heard of
(03:01):
the authors Gerard Neiherenberg and Henry Calero. I don't know
if they've written any other ones, but the book is wonderful.
How to read a person like a book. What we're
talking about is body language, facial language, I language. So
we're going to talk about that. But the second book
(03:24):
comes in and the name is what the name is?
Did you say something Susan? Well, I didn't like one
part of it. Did you say something anyone not just Susan?
It could be a ralph in other words, Doctor Poulette
Dale D like David D. A l E. Wrote the
(03:46):
book book is wonderful and basically is did you say
something Susan? How any woman can gain confidence and assertive communication?
And I am removing the words Susan and the word
woman because you know we mailed. This is not about
a gender. We mail to have the same problems. How
(04:09):
any man can gain confidence with a sort of communication.
Let me give you an example about so I called
Susan and I say Susan. When you're on the road
today doing your errands, do me a favor. Go to
ABC Liquors and buy me a bottle of Mogan David
(04:34):
wine and Susan thinking about I got better thing she do, says, okay,
I'll do that for you, Ralph. Now Susan has obligated
herself to do something that she did not want to do.
So what she really wanted to say is, Ralph, I've
got a busy schedule. I'm sorry. No, I've got a
busy schedule. I am unable to get you the bottle
(04:58):
of wine you want. Not saying I'm sorry, she asserted
herself by saying no in a nice way, I'm too busy.
But if she didn't say it then did it, she
would be upset with herself. And that goes back to
the first book, How to Read a Person like a book. Now,
if I asked Susan that in person, either way she
(05:22):
did it, she would have wouldn't be happy. If we
were in person, and I looked at her face and
I said, Susan, can you, on your way during the
day stop by the liquor store and buy me such
and such and and Susan said, I'm very busy today.
I just don't have the time. Maybe another time. But
she won't be upset with herself. Whereas body language, facial language,
(05:48):
I language. If she said, oh, I'll be happy to
do it for you, Alf, but she'd be steaming on
the inside.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, were very resentful.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
At herself, me for having the audacity or for the request,
but for herself for the audacity not to stand up
and say, Ralph, I'm busy. I don't have enough time
to do my own stuff. So let's go to how
to Read the Person, and we're going to do to First,
I'm going to give you a review what I thought
of the book, and then I want to discuss the
(06:19):
table of contents in the book of how to Read
a Person like the book. Now, when you're reading a person,
imagine you and I are speaking, whether it's business, personal, family,
or whatever, and we work next to each other. And
by the way, the further away the easier it is
to have a cold into relationship, the closer you will
(06:41):
have either intimacy or family wise, it's a little harder
sometimes to be honest as you want to be, because
one or another somebody's not gonna be happy. Either you're
going to say yes and you're not gonna be happy,
or you're going to say no and somebody else is
not gonna be happy and you're going to look at
their eyes. You look at their face, or you look
(07:01):
at their body, their hands, their feet, how they're sitting,
how they're slouching, and so on. And we'll get all that,
and we got an hour to do it in. But
what I want to do is I want I'm trying
to share with you now, at the age of eighty,
I've learned a lot. And you know what, I've read
these two books and I've learned a lot there. So
nobody knows everything. Nobody no how to read a person
(07:26):
like a book. Well, first of all, it's a great book.
It to me, it's a mirror effect. Illustrations that in
the book they highlight the discussion points. Yes, pictures are
worth a million words. Sometimes the author would tell you
in a paragraph or two and both authors did this,
(07:47):
uh and uh. They would talk and then give you
an illustration, a real picture of people or caricature, a
drawing illustrating what they were just highlighting. And in both
cases you can catch the message so much better, Cindy,
when you're looking at the picture of the person that
(08:10):
was speaking and or spoken to, right, you really do right.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
They call it nonverbal community.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yes, very good. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. And
That's what they both say. Interesting, but the body talks
everybody everyone else, and I mean ours while as far
as when we talk, when is the last time you looked,
really looked at someone you're speaking to or someone speaking
(08:39):
to you. Are you all all all of you listening
to each other? Are you working? Actually? Are you looking
at each other? What are you seeing? And what are
they seeing? What I'm saying is when I speak to you,
you're looking at me, and what are you seeing? Are
(09:01):
my eyes reflecting that I'm having a pain or a
problem talking to you? Or am I exuding smiles and confidence?
And you can see my eyes kind of smiling at you.
And by the way, a real smile is not your face,
not your lips, not your mouth, A real smiles in
(09:23):
your eyes. Next time you're talking to people, look at
them looking me seriously. First of all, they'll know you're
speaking and talking to them because you're looking at them.
Look at their eyes. They'll tell you if they're listening. Now,
what are you going to do? I talk to you
and you're kind of fluffing it off? Geez, I don't
(09:44):
want to hear this guy. Now I'm talking to you
and I see you moving your eyes right to left,
or you turn your head. I know you're not listening. Well,
one of my choices want to say, hey, I'm talking
to you, not Tree, it's a problem, or what the
hell with them? If they don't want to listen and
I just stop talking, just not continuing, you'll know real
(10:10):
quickly if they're going to want to hear you or not.
Because if they think they were listening and they say, well, Ralph,
what are you saying? Then I know they were listening.
But if not, what am I going to do? Start talking?
Stop talking or walk away? What would you do? This
is where the answers are in both these books. It's
(10:32):
interesting too, completely different the book, by the way, the
book How to Read a Person Like a Book Who
was written in nineteen ninety three. PAULLT Dale Doctor Dale.
Her book was written in twenty twenty one, So you
talk about twenty eight years apart. Yeah, that's a little
over a generation, big difference a generation. Do you agree
(10:56):
on the generation differences?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Cindy, Oh, absolutely absolutely, because a lot of times now
people don't even want to see each other in person,
and they don't do a lot of phone calls.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
It's all texting. And different things like that.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I have been to places like a restaurant or someplace,
and I see a couple of a man and a
woman or two friends sitting at cress from each other,
and they're texting by phone. They're not talking, they're not
speaking not they're not even verbal if there's something funny
or sad, but they're not personally. There's no interaction of communication.
(11:30):
And by the way, we're gonna take the break, I
want you to listen. Do you know what defective communication is? Everybody? Threefold?
You speak, I listen. That means I'm looking at you
when you're talking to me, and I let you speak.
You get through. Now I speak and you listen, and
(11:52):
we're looking at each other's eyes. I know you're listening,
and you know I'm looking at you. Now I'm done.
And what's the third feedback? That's when we communicate. We
may be totally disagreeing with everything we're saying, but we
respect each other as mature adults, as human beings. We
agree to disagree in a respectful manner. The word respectful
(12:17):
is kind of lacking right now in our society.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Well some ways it is.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
The Other thing, too, is to be mindful that you
have that communication. Yes, because a lot of people don't
know and they just think that you know what they're thinking.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
I've been in that situation quite a few times and
I'm like, I can't read I literally can't read your mind.
You have to say something or do something.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Well, that's part of the second book, Yeah, where somebody
would say something to you like, boy, you look like
you're geting a lot of weight, and you want to say,
go f yourself or go screw yourself, or how dare
you talk to me like that? Or you can say, now,
why would you say something like that? Yeah, you see
(12:59):
the difference of how communication is. But the real when
you gotta we're gonna take the break. Now take the word,
assume a s s ume, break it down, and when
we get back for the commercial, I'll break it down
for you in a informal way. We'll be right back everybody.
I hope you're enjoying. We're trying to improve our lives,
(13:22):
hours and yours. That's called communication. We'll be right back.
The book worms our Veterans Voice Radio.
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your I text dollars are welcome.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Very can come through. It can happen to you.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
It can happen to you. Welcome back to our Veteranswie
radio show. Today's the Bookworms Ralph Nathan Oko.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
And I taught Frankie how to sing. Huh. He's a
good student. So we talk about how to read a
person like a book. So I'm in college. It's my
first year of college, nineteen sixty four sixty five, and
I'm taking a course. I think it was in speech
one oh one. And the professor goes to the blackboard. Yeah, chalkboard.
(15:41):
I don't know if they still have them at school
or yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I think.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Okay, And you were a big bold letters assume ass um.
And he takes up the chalk and he separates the
word to ass up and down vertical line. You vertical
up and down line. Now you have ass you mean assume.
You make a fool of yourself and the other person
(16:07):
by assuming. Never assume. If you've got a question, don't assume. Ask.
So going back to my review in the book, So,
the book itself, how to how to read a person
like a book obviously out of out of print, so
you' left you'll you'll find it for two three four
(16:27):
dollars whatever. But the book is a bible. It is
very simple to read, simple to follow, and simple to understand.
But you have but bye bye. But you have to
pay attention, uh to be it for effective communication? Remember
I just told you what the two three way street
of communication. Feedback is not effective the third step unless
(16:53):
steps one or two are effective, meaning listening, you speak,
I listen, I speak, you listen. If either one of
us is not, then feedback is going to be irrelevant
because it's not going to be effective. So let's discuss
the contents of the book. I really recommend this book
(17:15):
very highly because it applies to everyone. Body language is loud,
it is bold, this is me talking. It can be
very effective, but should be real, honest, not false or fake.
Here's what for you. I do with that periodically usually
negative and it becomes positive. When's the last time you
(17:37):
spoke to yourself in front of a mirror? I know
it sounds nuts. Try it. Make it. Have a discussion.
You and somebody you love, like or dislike, and you're
going to say, well, let's talk about the guy you
don't like. Ah saying I don't like you, I don't
like what you just said. You turn me off, and
(17:58):
your face is going to show it. And even if
I said, ah, Sam, I don't like what you said,
but I don't like you. I disagree with it, but
I respect it. I disagree. You see the different, But
look at your face when you're doing it, because what
you're looking at the mirror is what they see when
(18:19):
you tell them.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Man right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Try it. I know it sounds like, oh my god,
eighty or of you know, fuddy duddy. Ah. It's still
today as effected as there was nineteen sixties. For me,
I learned a lot from that speech, professor, a lot. Okay,
let's go through. I'll read a person like a book.
Let me throw something out to you. You're at the
(18:42):
job and your boss asks you to do have report
in front of a group of people that you may
or may not know all or some or your teacher
asks you to do it in front of an auditorium,
or your coach is telling you to speak in front
of a group of people in this what do you
(19:02):
how do you handle it? Oh? My god, I'm gonna
be bite your nails and you get you know, you're
you're gonna feel like like you're jumping out of a
plane twenty thousand feet.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Up without a parish you're right, Or you're.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Walking on a glass bridge twenty thousand feet over Thailand.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Or I want to say something when you get down
with this, Ralph, because we were talking about this after
our show yesterday.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Oh don't forget them. Yeah, okay, my speech teacher said, Ralph,
look at everybody and all you see is chairs. You
don't see the person. But when I am looking at
that chair you're sitting in it, I'm supposedly not seeing you,
but you're looking You're seeing me look at you, and
(19:43):
you feel special. So when I look across all the room,
everybody feels special. I just did that show with Indian
River Estates, and I gave it to this show about
the back of the history of the Highwayman, and I
walked up and down holding an apple or orange or painting,
and I'm looking at each individual and I'm talking. Because
(20:05):
speaking in front of a mic, that's a lecture. I
don't lecture. I speak one on one in front of
one hundred one thousand people. I don't care. So when
you're speaking to somebody, look at them, look like you
really cared.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
I was taught that in one of the classes I took.
I want to say it was like an eighth or
ninth grade, that when you do a speech, make eye
contact with each person in the room, you know, just
for a quarter or second or whatever, so they feel
included in exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So what yesterday, So yesterday.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
We were talking about people, was the first time a
person was on a video show and they were very,
very nervous and they were like, I don't want to
slip up, and I'm nervous and blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
And what we said.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
What they teach you too in these communication classes is
the people in the audience don't know what you're going
to say. Correct, So if you forget what you're going
to say, they wouldn't have known it any way.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
So they don't know that you forgot, you know, make
it up, just go to the next whatever the next
example would be, or just ad libit because they don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And that's why I I don't know. It was two
or three years ago. Uh. I made the decision that
I don't want to do interviews anymore. I wanted to
have conversations because of FDR, the fire Sunday night fireside chats.
When we have guests that we speak, we're communicating. They're talking,
I'm talking. We listen and I were speaking to you.
(21:30):
Unfortunately we're not hearing you, but you're hearing us. And
that's that's effective communication. Not where you can't speak to us.
That's not effective, of course.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
But uh.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
But as far as talking to the I'm trying to
find my spot there with the mirror. Uh.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
But uh, and good ad lib is hard to do,
but when she get used to doing it, it's easy.
It's actually better than notes all the time.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Correct. And the other thing is that I re recommend
the book. Uh also because uh, but you're gonna be
honest when you're speaking. Uh, And so have you. When's
the last time you really looked at people when they're
speaking to you or you speaking to them. Read the book.
It will make you a better person.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
What's the name of the book again, Ralph?
Speaker 1 (22:19):
And how to read a person like your book? How
do you stand? How do you What are your facial expressions?
Are you slouching? Are you crossing your arms? Are you
scratching your hair or your beard? Uh? Are you buying
your upper lip or lower lip? Are you squinting? Uh?
(22:44):
Are you sitting with your two legs one leg crossing
the other? Your body movement emotions are whether you're speaking
or being spoken to. That body language the facial expressions
that that's a speech or a language all of its own.
(23:04):
And when's the last time you paid attention to yourself
without a mirror when you're talking to somebody or they're
speaking to you. Have you ever thought about, Man, I'm slouching,
it's like I don't give a damn, or I'm moving
forward like I'm really paying attention. I got my hands
over like right now, I got my arms over my
(23:25):
thighs and I'm bending forward to the mic. But I'm
really speaking to you sincerely, and that's what I want
you to say. You could probably see my eyes smiling,
and that's what it's supposed to be. If I speak
to you like I care, that's how you will take it.
Even if you don't like or don't agree with everything
I'm saying, you'll respect me for the method by which
(23:48):
I said it to you. So we'll get back to
this book after the break, because we're going to go
to the second book. And you can see now when
we get to the second book, how effective says. So
we'll be right back the bookworms, our Veterans' Voice Radio
and iHeartRadio will be right back.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
And your contact informationial request.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
You can reach me seven days a week, daylight hours
nine five four five five seven six two two six.
I'm there for you. I'm no good without you. So
please call me for whatever reason and we'll talk a
little more we can. I'll be right back within a
couple of seconds.
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