May 27, 2025 • 27 mins
It's time to put on the metaphorical convention toolbelt and discuss some tools of the trade! The underrated crayon is Nicki's go-to for coloring in commissions, and she's about to let you know some interesting history behind the waxy but mighty tool. Mervyn weighs in on some of the crayon's cousins and his vendetta against one in particular.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Nicky McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer
and traditional artist.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrator, storyteller and digital artist.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You're listening to paper Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You hear that music? He stole it off the internet.
Just kidding.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
It's spicy beats b E E T S and he
hates beats. Let's check you out that SoundCloud.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Okay, So, I think today we're going to talk about
some tools of the trade. What kind of trade, the
art work trade, I suppose, okay, not trade or Joe's.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
The trade of Joe's. That's what we're going to talk
about today.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah. So, and I remember going over a couple of
these and asking if any pequed your interests. And I
mentioned this one particular tool, and you seem pretty interested
about it, and I too wanted to know where they
came from.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Oh, what's this? Is it? Any chance fingerpaint.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Washable? Yes? No, So I thought that today we could
talk about crayons of all things, all right?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Why crayons though, So a little.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Bit of backstory on crayons is, as you may or
may not know, but when we do the shows, I
frequently use crayons to color in my commissions. And there's
a variety of reasons for that.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
And yes, I used to judge her for I.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Think honestly he still judges because sister, he's got he's
got ninety six markers.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, but but you have.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
And I'm here with ninety six trans conveniently in one.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Box, and a marker ain't one.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So the fantastic thing about crayons that I've found in
I don't even know. I think the reason that I
started using them was because I really like the way
that they looked, okay, like texture wise, like when you
color something and with a crayon, it gives a very distinct,
sort of like playful texture I think that you don't
(02:36):
really see in a lot of other mediums. And also too,
they were really accessible, both in terms of like just
you know, finding them. You didn't have to go specifically
to an art store, and they were also really affordable.
You know, you could get like a big old box
for like around five bucks.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Can I ask a question though. Yeah, what about quality though,
because I mean, do they varying quality?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Because I actuel like so, yes, I am a bit
of a crayon snob. I have found I have found
that I feel like certain brands have varying levels of
pigment in them. What do you mean so pigment? So
it's like, I feel like the simplest way to describe
(03:22):
it is like when you're using the crown itself, it's
like the amount of pigment that'll show.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Up in me. It's harder like to color with it.
Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Not necessarily, it's more like the brightness of the colors. Okay,
So I feel like in like quote unquote like cheaper
crayons or cheaper brands, it'll be more waxy, whereas there's
kind of like a richness in like other brands.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
What are some of the do you have like a
list of brands or is that something you're gonna get
to in your.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
No, not necessarily, I mean, like honestly, craileas like kind
of like the big Boy in America at least, and
they put a lot of competition uh out because it
was it was just kind of like the go to brand,
but Rosart is still around. I think they're terrible, terrible. No, yeah,
well like specifically, like they to me, their crawons run
(04:19):
rather rather waxy and there isn't a lot of pigmentation
in the crayon itself.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Okay, so wax off. Yeah, Rosary just it's.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Just a bad time, It's true. Yeah, the the the
big boys for a reason. So yeah, So so crayon origin,
So what what even are crayons? So, crayons are essentially
(04:53):
just like a stick of pigmented wax, and they differ
from pastel in the sense that pastels usually use a
dry binder of gum arabic, whereas oil pastels.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
What's that though, what's gum arabic?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So, gum arabic is basically like a binder. So it
essentially like takes whatever pigment and uh whatever it creates,
like it creates like the it's like gluten the pigment stick.
Yeah basically yeah. So like so a pastel is like
(05:33):
more chalky as a result, whereas oil pastels are a
combination of like wax and oil from the binders. So
so you're you're basically getting like different textures from it,
whereas crayons themselves are mostly composed of paraffin wax. And
I found out that paraffin wax is common in uh cosmetics, candles.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Petroleum is just like from petroleum and stuff like that,
or is this I.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Didn't quite look up the chemical composition. There was a
whole page on that, and I was like, whoa. But
it's also found in printing, ink fruit preserving, so I
guess like that waxy kind of sheene, okay, you might
see on certain fruits and also pharmaceutical purposes.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
But so going back a little bit, so the difference
between a crayon and a pastel and a wax like,
like what would do? What would oil? Pastas? Are oil
pasta pastel and a crayon? What like?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So I guess the essential difference is the binder. So
crayons use paraffin wax, pastels are going to use gum
arabic and oil pastels.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Oh no, I get that, But I'm just saying in
terms of quality of art, because you don't use pasta
and pastels are messy.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, I mean pastels are I mean chalky so to speak.
So yeah, it's it's like a lot of mess and
it's not really practical for when we're on the road
and traveling.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And that's and that's just because, like you said, they
use different binding age. Yes, okay, and that's interesting chemic chemistry,
right yeah, Oh it's pretty cool. And what you used
to use pastel's all right?
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, I mean like pastels are super common. I feel
like in fine arts there's a lot of like I
think like they're very common for like landscaping pieces. You know,
you'll like sketch out like a landscape in pastels.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Okay. I was just curious that oil pastel is if
you want something less messy.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, I mean I feel like they're still kind of
messy in their own way though, because they're wily. So
it's like you like really have to press down on
them in order to like get that pigment.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Is that like in a relation to like the Roles
art Crayola type thing where you have to press down
to get the color out or different problem.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I think it's just because it's like a different material.
So it's like it's like I think with oil pastels
you can like blend things more and like and so
you have to press out on like the canvas or
the paper in order to use it in that way.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah, I was That's where I was asking. And I
know that it's totally different, you know meat, you know,
mediums in many ways. I was just curious, like if
the because with I was just going back to the
rosar thing. That's what I was asking. So with the rosart,
you can't really you don't have the benefit of blending
anything or anything. It's just hard and just difficult and
not comfortable.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, I feel like yeah, And I feel like crayons
in general, like they like if you're blending them, it's
kind of like layering and you just have to be
like very light handed with it, whereas like oil pastels
will like actually like kind of like blend together if
you like put them on top of each other.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Okay, I was curious, do you ever come by in
all three or two?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
No, I have not mixed in mass, would you. I
would maybe consider working with like oil pastels and cry
I think that could be interesting.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah. I was thinking that. Yeah, that's where that's pretty cool,
because that's where my line of questioning was going. I
was very curious, Okay, I was just interested.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, And so the word crayon is actually a French word.
It comes from chalk pencil and it dates to around
the sixteenth century. It essentially combines wax with the pigment,
as we said, and this goes back thousands of years.
So something called in caustic painting combines hot these wax
(09:35):
with colored pigment to bind the color to into stone.
And this process has been around for a while because
you essentially add a heat source and then use this
to burn in quote unquote the uh the image into place.
So you so you essentially like use this crayon on
(09:57):
something and then you put like a heat source I guess,
like a candle or something to like, yeah, bake it in.
And they showed some examples of painting and stuff. I
mean they were stylized, but I mean, you know, as
as was popular for the time. And the cool thing
about it is that this method is still used by
(10:20):
a lot of people today, such as Egyptians, Romans, Greeks,
and indigital people in the Philippines. People in the Philippines.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Ye kind of art.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
I didn't look into it, but I feel like if
you type in in caustic painting, maybe like modern art
or like modern day examples, you'll see some, but I
mean like it's I think it's cool that like an
art technique that was invented basically bounds of thousands of
years ago is still in play today because I feel
(10:56):
like with all of like the technological advancements, you know,
it's so cool to have like traditional art techniques around
and being in use. So that's not actually where the
crayon came from, per se, but that is kind of
like a loosely related art technique I suppose, so contemporary
(11:16):
crayons or of European origins, and some of the first
were made from charcoal and oil. Uh So pastels, which
we mentioned previously, sort of evolved into conti crayons, which
are a hybrid between pastels and the crayons of today,
(11:39):
which makes a lot of sense. I don't know if
you've used content.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I have a you said it because when I started
art school, right, you know, I didn't have as much
like traditional like experience. So I started art school and
the graphic I think he was a design and he
was teaching us. I forgot the name of the class anyway,
(12:04):
but it was a lot of designing stuff and we
had to do work in conty crane and I remember
going to the art store Pearls and getting my CONDI
creon the you know whatever to do whatever, and I
was like, what is this track? Like, what is this?
I'm not let me say, I'm not used. CONTI cran again,
since I'm like, CONTI crank? Can CONTI get that? I
(12:27):
gotta here to be in all seriousness, I did some
pretty cool stuff, cool looking stuff with it. I might
even still have the art somewhere in one of my
old dark portfolios. But it was It's not the worst thing.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
It was just like it's like a very firm crayon.
And I remember like we we would do stuff I
think in like middle school with it or something like that,
but like it was, it was just like it felt
kind of limited, if that makes sense. And I think
it's funny that arguably, I feel like anybody that was
(13:05):
like a doing fine arts in school almost gets traumatized
by like one sort of medium. And so I guess
for you, it's content croon.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Garbage, garbage crayon. Listen. Even the name is a misnomer
because I'm like, listen, I remember crayon's being a fun
thing in my childhood. This is the antithesis of fun.
This is antithesis of a crayon. You think back, guys, listener,
just just think by close your eyes and think about
(13:35):
those coloring books and when you took whatever good or
garbage crayon and you just color up color outside the lines.
You know, you see the faces and you just taking
the red and you just coloring all over the face.
Even though it's incorrect. Remember that that was fun, right,
CONTI creon takes all those memories away and throws them
in the trash, and you never want to use a
(13:56):
crayon again. Maybe that's why I was judging your crayon usage,
because you use something with the word crayon in the title,
and Kanti kind of just corrupted it for me, corrupt
the kreyon. How about that true.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Story I was. I don't think I was ever a
huge fan of coloring books. I think I just wanted
to draw my own pictures.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Me too, I'm not gonna lie. I mean me too.
I probably trace the image in the coloring book, or
I'd redry it and then i'd.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Color it years later. I can see the value in
it for building like you know, motor skills with small skills.
But I mean, yeah, it. It was it was not
my cup of tea. I was not interested in coloring
and other people's pictures.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Kids don't have motor skills though, right, I'm just asking
or maybe with the games they have, like I.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Don't know, man, if they're playing games like I don't. Yeah,
well it'll be interesting to see where kids are, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
What kind of adults, like what kind of skills they'll
have or what kind of skills they won't, Just like
we have skills that our parents definitely don't and never
will have, but we also don't have skills they have
had or whatever. So it should be interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
So just finishing up on that point, it was discovered
that wax strengthened the crayon. So, I guess if you've
ever handled pastels or I mean, I feel like I
feel like oil pastels are pretty hardy, but pastels specifically, like, uh,
you know, you gotta be a little bit careful with shock.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah, I went through so many.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Can can be a bad time. Yeah. So with the
modern day crayola that came from mister Edwin Binny and C.
Harold Smith, and they were responsible for developing and introducing
the strowvel marking crayon in nineteen oh two. And it's
(15:48):
pretty funny because like I don't really know in my
mind's eye, like where I thought the modern day crayon
came from, but like it it felt like it would
be something older, right, Like I.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Felt it could have been. But I guess it is
if you're considering contact crayon.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
And yeah, if you if you look at things and
like that, I think.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
It is older. Okay, well why did he invent this?
Because my thing is it was just to make it
more consistent, right, to make it let more duoble, I should.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Say, yeah at the point, I think so.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
So, yeah, I think it's older. It's just that it
was in a different form. Even CONTI crayon, uh, you know,
has a role in that evolution. Here's the thing. CONTI
crayon is that part you know, you said that the
evolution of man. It's that one thing in the middle
where it's like, oh, you're saying human beings are that.
That's what contic creon is in the evolution.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
That's the fish with legs exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Contact creon is a fish with legs.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
So after nineteen oh two, a year later, Alice Binney
Edwin's wife coined the name crayola by combining the French
word for chalk with the first part of the word
only a o oli a genus okay, which is another
name for paraffin wax okay pretentious so so olia. So
(17:09):
I guess it was cray olia. Oh that's what became Crayola.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Never met anybody named Crayola. I'm just saying, like, how
is nobody have How have I not met anyone who
named the child creole?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Like how people name like theirs? Like yeah, just like
brands in general, like us.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Where my crayola is at? If you if you're out
there and you're a Crayola, please write then.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Write in let us know.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah please yeah, Hala, Crayola.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Will send you some crayons.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Yeah, we will. Actually, if you're in the continental United States,
we will send you. Uh, Nicole will send you risk
crayon colored commission. There you go, Nicole will notice here's
Nicole will send you.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah. Yeah. So so that's like, I guess the upshot
of the origins of crayons. And uh, I mean my
my go to at shows is usually a ninety six pack.
I've just gotten spoiled by it, and uh, the variety
(18:21):
in a Crayola box. It allows me to you know,
like get those like really specific colors like sometimes because
I'm kind of sensitive to that. So uh, you know,
sometimes people will like want a favorite character drawn, or
like they'll just be wearing like a certain outfit and
they're like very specific colors in the crayon box that
(18:42):
like match to those. Great. I think I thought about
this beforehand. I feel like I have kind of like
a favorite for each so true. Another true story about
Krayola boxes is the crayons come completely out of order
when when you open up the box, it's completely randomized,
(19:03):
and so you have like reds with greens and like
browns of purples and it drives me crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
So somebody doesn't like the box having fun?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Huh, No, no fun allowed. So the first thing that
I do when I get a box of crayons is
I actually empty them all out and I create sort
of sections based on ROYGBIV to make my life easier
because otherwise I'm like eternally searching for like a very
specific red or like a very specific purple. I mean, overall,
(19:36):
I would say my favorite color in the box is
probably Cyrillian. It's just a really nice, like bright blue.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Okay, can you dis is there something you could describe
or not describe, something you could reference to people that
they can see in their lives or could google or
something that that is sure? Alien, It's fine. That's that's
a you know, it's not off the top of your head.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
That's I feel like it's like it'd be like it'd
be like me saying like it's like the sky on
a cloudless day.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
That's fair. That's fair. I mean for you guys over
there and uh, you know on the Pacific Northwest, you've
never seen one of those, so you have no idea
what we're talking about. Sorry or.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
If you sorry, if you if you order like a
drink at a bar and they use like the blue
curracal or carousel currousel, Yeah, it's kind of like that
electric blue.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Okay, that is a pretty blue. Yeah, that's not a
natural blue, right, I would just say so yeah, But okay,
so they say that blue is not a natural color,
but I've come to find various peculiarities that have been
blue like in nature, but usually they would be like
poison related or whatnot. Right, Yeah, okay, but I've phoned
(20:54):
in peculiartists that are blue, so I don't know what
that's saying, but uh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah I would. I would also say that, like in
each of the sections that I kind of like divvy
them up into, I have like a favorite for each one.
So for like the red section, it would definitely be, uh,
brick red.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Brick red. Is that like that hard red like that?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, it's it's like a it's like a little bit
warmer than maroon.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Okay, so like a brick wall. Yeah yeah, brick red, brickwall.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Great for grape for lipstick, ah okay. And in the
orange yellow section, so I don't, I don't, I hardly
use it. But there is a crown literally called macaroni
and cheese, and I've always thought that was really funny.
So that's your favorite from from the orange Yeah yeah, yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:54):
But that does it look like macaroni and cheese in
terms of color?
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I personally think it's a little bit too orange.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
It looks like if your macaroni and cheese didn't taste good.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's a little bit too orange.
I think something like this is closer to like mac
and cheese. This is called unmellow yellow.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Unmellow yellow looks right. Okay, so this this macaroni and
cheese orange, what would you compare it to it? It
looks like ooh, like a corn like no, no, it's
not even that. Yeah, to really give a it's really weird.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Maybe like a tangerine or something.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah, I'm not good tangerine. Yeah, you know, I those
tangerines that they kind of hide at the bottom, so
they you know what I mean, like that that that
kind of tangerine.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
That's the one that they sneak in there, and you
know it's gonna get fuzzy first, exactly. Out of the
green box, it's always been jungle green. It's like a
really cool like blue green almost.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Yeah, it is blue green. It's not like green green.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
It's it's gray gray for dinosaurs. Out of the purple box,
I've always been a fan.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Of plum plum.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
It's a it's a reddish Yeah, it's a reddish sort
of purple.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, that's uplow. That's uplow.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah. And out of the out of my like kind
of neutral tone box. So that has like peaches and
browns in it, and any of like the metallic crayons
I like mahogany. It's a good go to. It's like
a reddish brown, it's.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
A little lighter, not actual mahogany, But that's like that
that I didn't know, Like, what would you call that?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I'm not gonna say it.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
But if it's that color, then you're you might not
like something, didn't you know it? Well, if it's I.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Don't know, maybe like a good like vintage, vintage, Uh.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yeah maybe yeah, yeah, yeah, I could say that.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
But yeah. So it's my spiel on crayons.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
No, it's very informative, you know, I you know, I
appreciate you sharing it. So let me ask you a question, though,
Is there anything that would ever stop you from using crayons?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Um?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
You quit?
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Man? I feel like maybe if they jacked up the
price a lot, like if my crayons cost the same
as like your markers, I might have to have a thought.
I might have to have to think about it.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
And well, when do you throw away a crayon? Because
I see varying points here. You guys can't see it,
but you know you have some that are sharp, some
that are have could have been around for a while,
Like when when did it you use one to the
numb or Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So my my most commonly used crayon is easily black.
I will also give a shout out to our good
friend Jake for buying me a whole pack of blacks
because very nice. Yeah so I just kind of pop
them in whenever they get a little bit too nubbany.
But but no, I don't typically throw them away. Uh.
(25:04):
I guess I just like kind of move on to
a new box.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
But at the same time, I also have like a
couple of boxes of you know these, Like they're not
bad per se, but I'm not really sure what to
do with them.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Not such they're they're smart, they're short, and they're not sharp.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah okay, but it's also like a fascinating visual representation
on as to like what gets used. That's true, Like
white is like almost always new.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Yeah, that's fair. What's interesting though, I'll say this, you know,
before we wrap up, I have flirted with using your crayons,
Like there have been shows where we've gone to like
some impromptu shows where it wasn't planned, like you know,
we ended up and we just set up randomly because
we had some stuff on us and I didn't have
any stuff and I used their creons and it's fun,
Like I've gotten some really cool results. Like you know, yes,
(25:52):
I'll rag on her for our crayons, but I've been
tempted to just shift to crayons as well, or even
just to mix the media, Like you know, i'd use
crayons for skin in or certain other things, and then
I use maybe a marker or something else for other
little things, and just to make a kind of hybrid
image which you've done for people. Yeah, where she'll color
crayon for the character and then I'll color the background,
(26:14):
you know, with markers and vice versa, depending on what's required.
It works well with pets, right. I think it's when
she does the when you have the crayon effects for
the you don't have to do that much work for
the fur, and it kind of gives a nice texture
to it as well. So just a little bit of
inside baseball for you guys on how the paper Lab
Sausage is made.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
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Speaker 2 (26:38):
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Speaker 1 (26:47):
Com and support us on Patreon, at paper Lab Studios,
thank you for listening to paper La.
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Turn that music up.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Past toost
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Thst tost
Hi, I'm Nicky McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer
and traditional artist.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrator, storyteller and digital artist.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You're listening to paper Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You hear that music? He stole it off the internet.
Just kidding.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
It's spicy beats b E E T S and he
hates beats. Let's check you out that SoundCloud.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Okay, So, I think today we're going to talk about
some tools of the trade. What kind of trade, the
art work trade, I suppose, okay, not trade or Joe's.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
The trade of Joe's. That's what we're going to talk
about today.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah. So, and I remember going over a couple of
these and asking if any pequed your interests. And I
mentioned this one particular tool, and you seem pretty interested
about it, and I too wanted to know where they
came from.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Oh, what's this? Is it? Any chance fingerpaint.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Washable? Yes? No, So I thought that today we could
talk about crayons of all things, all right?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Why crayons though, So a little.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Bit of backstory on crayons is, as you may or
may not know, but when we do the shows, I
frequently use crayons to color in my commissions. And there's
a variety of reasons for that.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
And yes, I used to judge her for I.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Think honestly he still judges because sister, he's got he's
got ninety six markers.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, but but you have.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
And I'm here with ninety six trans conveniently in one.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Box, and a marker ain't one.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So the fantastic thing about crayons that I've found in
I don't even know. I think the reason that I
started using them was because I really like the way
that they looked, okay, like texture wise, like when you
color something and with a crayon, it gives a very distinct,
sort of like playful texture I think that you don't
(02:36):
really see in a lot of other mediums. And also too,
they were really accessible, both in terms of like just
you know, finding them. You didn't have to go specifically
to an art store, and they were also really affordable.
You know, you could get like a big old box
for like around five bucks.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Can I ask a question though. Yeah, what about quality though,
because I mean, do they varying quality?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Because I actuel like so, yes, I am a bit
of a crayon snob. I have found I have found
that I feel like certain brands have varying levels of
pigment in them. What do you mean so pigment? So
it's like, I feel like the simplest way to describe
(03:22):
it is like when you're using the crown itself, it's
like the amount of pigment that'll show.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Up in me. It's harder like to color with it.
Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Not necessarily, it's more like the brightness of the colors. Okay,
So I feel like in like quote unquote like cheaper
crayons or cheaper brands, it'll be more waxy, whereas there's
kind of like a richness in like other brands.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
What are some of the do you have like a
list of brands or is that something you're gonna get
to in your.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
No, not necessarily, I mean, like honestly, craileas like kind
of like the big Boy in America at least, and
they put a lot of competition uh out because it
was it was just kind of like the go to brand,
but Rosart is still around. I think they're terrible, terrible. No, yeah,
well like specifically, like they to me, their crawons run
(04:19):
rather rather waxy and there isn't a lot of pigmentation
in the crayon itself.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Okay, so wax off. Yeah, Rosary just it's.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Just a bad time, It's true. Yeah, the the the
big boys for a reason. So yeah, So so crayon origin,
So what what even are crayons? So, crayons are essentially
(04:53):
just like a stick of pigmented wax, and they differ
from pastel in the sense that pastels usually use a
dry binder of gum arabic, whereas oil pastels.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
What's that though, what's gum arabic?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So, gum arabic is basically like a binder. So it
essentially like takes whatever pigment and uh whatever it creates,
like it creates like the it's like gluten the pigment stick.
Yeah basically yeah. So like so a pastel is like
(05:33):
more chalky as a result, whereas oil pastels are a
combination of like wax and oil from the binders. So
so you're you're basically getting like different textures from it,
whereas crayons themselves are mostly composed of paraffin wax. And
I found out that paraffin wax is common in uh cosmetics, candles.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Petroleum is just like from petroleum and stuff like that,
or is this I.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Didn't quite look up the chemical composition. There was a
whole page on that, and I was like, whoa. But
it's also found in printing, ink fruit preserving, so I
guess like that waxy kind of sheene, okay, you might
see on certain fruits and also pharmaceutical purposes.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
But so going back a little bit, so the difference
between a crayon and a pastel and a wax like,
like what would do? What would oil? Pastas? Are oil
pasta pastel and a crayon? What like?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So I guess the essential difference is the binder. So
crayons use paraffin wax, pastels are going to use gum
arabic and oil pastels.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Oh no, I get that, But I'm just saying in
terms of quality of art, because you don't use pasta
and pastels are messy.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, I mean pastels are I mean chalky so to speak.
So yeah, it's it's like a lot of mess and
it's not really practical for when we're on the road
and traveling.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And that's and that's just because, like you said, they
use different binding age. Yes, okay, and that's interesting chemic chemistry,
right yeah, Oh it's pretty cool. And what you used
to use pastel's all right?
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, I mean like pastels are super common. I feel
like in fine arts there's a lot of like I
think like they're very common for like landscaping pieces. You know,
you'll like sketch out like a landscape in pastels.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Okay. I was just curious that oil pastel is if
you want something less messy.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, I mean I feel like they're still kind of
messy in their own way though, because they're wily. So
it's like you like really have to press down on
them in order to like get that pigment.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Is that like in a relation to like the Roles
art Crayola type thing where you have to press down
to get the color out or different problem.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I think it's just because it's like a different material.
So it's like it's like I think with oil pastels
you can like blend things more and like and so
you have to press out on like the canvas or
the paper in order to use it in that way.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah, I was That's where I was asking. And I
know that it's totally different, you know meat, you know,
mediums in many ways. I was just curious, like if
the because with I was just going back to the
rosar thing. That's what I was asking. So with the rosart,
you can't really you don't have the benefit of blending
anything or anything. It's just hard and just difficult and
not comfortable.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, I feel like yeah, And I feel like crayons
in general, like they like if you're blending them, it's
kind of like layering and you just have to be
like very light handed with it, whereas like oil pastels
will like actually like kind of like blend together if
you like put them on top of each other.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Okay, I was curious, do you ever come by in
all three or two?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
No, I have not mixed in mass, would you. I
would maybe consider working with like oil pastels and cry
I think that could be interesting.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah. I was thinking that. Yeah, that's where that's pretty cool,
because that's where my line of questioning was going. I
was very curious, Okay, I was just interested.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, And so the word crayon is actually a French word.
It comes from chalk pencil and it dates to around
the sixteenth century. It essentially combines wax with the pigment,
as we said, and this goes back thousands of years.
So something called in caustic painting combines hot these wax
(09:35):
with colored pigment to bind the color to into stone.
And this process has been around for a while because
you essentially add a heat source and then use this
to burn in quote unquote the uh the image into place.
So you so you essentially like use this crayon on
(09:57):
something and then you put like a heat source I guess,
like a candle or something to like, yeah, bake it in.
And they showed some examples of painting and stuff. I
mean they were stylized, but I mean, you know, as
as was popular for the time. And the cool thing
about it is that this method is still used by
(10:20):
a lot of people today, such as Egyptians, Romans, Greeks,
and indigital people in the Philippines. People in the Philippines.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Ye kind of art.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
I didn't look into it, but I feel like if
you type in in caustic painting, maybe like modern art
or like modern day examples, you'll see some, but I
mean like it's I think it's cool that like an
art technique that was invented basically bounds of thousands of
years ago is still in play today because I feel
(10:56):
like with all of like the technological advancements, you know,
it's so cool to have like traditional art techniques around
and being in use. So that's not actually where the
crayon came from, per se, but that is kind of
like a loosely related art technique I suppose, so contemporary
(11:16):
crayons or of European origins, and some of the first
were made from charcoal and oil. Uh So pastels, which
we mentioned previously, sort of evolved into conti crayons, which
are a hybrid between pastels and the crayons of today,
(11:39):
which makes a lot of sense. I don't know if
you've used content.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I have a you said it because when I started
art school, right, you know, I didn't have as much
like traditional like experience. So I started art school and
the graphic I think he was a design and he
was teaching us. I forgot the name of the class anyway,
(12:04):
but it was a lot of designing stuff and we
had to do work in conty crane and I remember
going to the art store Pearls and getting my CONDI
creon the you know whatever to do whatever, and I
was like, what is this track? Like, what is this?
I'm not let me say, I'm not used. CONTI cran again,
since I'm like, CONTI crank? Can CONTI get that? I
(12:27):
gotta here to be in all seriousness, I did some
pretty cool stuff, cool looking stuff with it. I might
even still have the art somewhere in one of my
old dark portfolios. But it was It's not the worst thing.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
It was just like it's like a very firm crayon.
And I remember like we we would do stuff I
think in like middle school with it or something like that,
but like it was, it was just like it felt
kind of limited, if that makes sense. And I think
it's funny that arguably, I feel like anybody that was
(13:05):
like a doing fine arts in school almost gets traumatized
by like one sort of medium. And so I guess
for you, it's content croon.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Garbage, garbage crayon. Listen. Even the name is a misnomer
because I'm like, listen, I remember crayon's being a fun
thing in my childhood. This is the antithesis of fun.
This is antithesis of a crayon. You think back, guys, listener,
just just think by close your eyes and think about
(13:35):
those coloring books and when you took whatever good or
garbage crayon and you just color up color outside the lines.
You know, you see the faces and you just taking
the red and you just coloring all over the face.
Even though it's incorrect. Remember that that was fun, right,
CONTI creon takes all those memories away and throws them
in the trash, and you never want to use a
(13:56):
crayon again. Maybe that's why I was judging your crayon usage,
because you use something with the word crayon in the title,
and Kanti kind of just corrupted it for me, corrupt
the kreyon. How about that true.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Story I was. I don't think I was ever a
huge fan of coloring books. I think I just wanted
to draw my own pictures.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Me too, I'm not gonna lie. I mean me too.
I probably trace the image in the coloring book, or
I'd redry it and then i'd.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Color it years later. I can see the value in
it for building like you know, motor skills with small skills.
But I mean, yeah, it. It was it was not
my cup of tea. I was not interested in coloring
and other people's pictures.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Kids don't have motor skills though, right, I'm just asking
or maybe with the games they have, like I.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Don't know, man, if they're playing games like I don't. Yeah,
well it'll be interesting to see where kids are, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
What kind of adults, like what kind of skills they'll
have or what kind of skills they won't, Just like
we have skills that our parents definitely don't and never
will have, but we also don't have skills they have
had or whatever. So it should be interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
So just finishing up on that point, it was discovered
that wax strengthened the crayon. So, I guess if you've
ever handled pastels or I mean, I feel like I
feel like oil pastels are pretty hardy, but pastels specifically, like, uh,
you know, you gotta be a little bit careful with shock.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah, I went through so many.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Can can be a bad time. Yeah. So with the
modern day crayola that came from mister Edwin Binny and C.
Harold Smith, and they were responsible for developing and introducing
the strowvel marking crayon in nineteen oh two. And it's
(15:48):
pretty funny because like I don't really know in my
mind's eye, like where I thought the modern day crayon
came from, but like it it felt like it would
be something older, right, Like I.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Felt it could have been. But I guess it is
if you're considering contact crayon.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
And yeah, if you if you look at things and
like that, I think.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
It is older. Okay, well why did he invent this?
Because my thing is it was just to make it
more consistent, right, to make it let more duoble, I should.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Say, yeah at the point, I think so.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
So, yeah, I think it's older. It's just that it
was in a different form. Even CONTI crayon, uh, you know,
has a role in that evolution. Here's the thing. CONTI
crayon is that part you know, you said that the
evolution of man. It's that one thing in the middle
where it's like, oh, you're saying human beings are that.
That's what contic creon is in the evolution.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
That's the fish with legs exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Contact creon is a fish with legs.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
So after nineteen oh two, a year later, Alice Binney
Edwin's wife coined the name crayola by combining the French
word for chalk with the first part of the word
only a o oli a genus okay, which is another
name for paraffin wax okay pretentious so so olia. So
(17:09):
I guess it was cray olia. Oh that's what became Crayola.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Never met anybody named Crayola. I'm just saying, like, how
is nobody have How have I not met anyone who
named the child creole?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Like how people name like theirs? Like yeah, just like
brands in general, like us.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Where my crayola is at? If you if you're out
there and you're a Crayola, please write then.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Write in let us know.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah please yeah, Hala, Crayola.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Will send you some crayons.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Yeah, we will. Actually, if you're in the continental United States,
we will send you. Uh, Nicole will send you risk
crayon colored commission. There you go, Nicole will notice here's
Nicole will send you.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah. Yeah. So so that's like, I guess the upshot
of the origins of crayons. And uh, I mean my
my go to at shows is usually a ninety six pack.
I've just gotten spoiled by it, and uh, the variety
(18:21):
in a Crayola box. It allows me to you know,
like get those like really specific colors like sometimes because
I'm kind of sensitive to that. So uh, you know,
sometimes people will like want a favorite character drawn, or
like they'll just be wearing like a certain outfit and
they're like very specific colors in the crayon box that
(18:42):
like match to those. Great. I think I thought about
this beforehand. I feel like I have kind of like
a favorite for each so true. Another true story about
Krayola boxes is the crayons come completely out of order
when when you open up the box, it's completely randomized,
(19:03):
and so you have like reds with greens and like
browns of purples and it drives me crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
So somebody doesn't like the box having fun?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Huh, No, no fun allowed. So the first thing that
I do when I get a box of crayons is
I actually empty them all out and I create sort
of sections based on ROYGBIV to make my life easier
because otherwise I'm like eternally searching for like a very
specific red or like a very specific purple. I mean, overall,
(19:36):
I would say my favorite color in the box is
probably Cyrillian. It's just a really nice, like bright blue.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Okay, can you dis is there something you could describe
or not describe, something you could reference to people that
they can see in their lives or could google or
something that that is sure? Alien, It's fine. That's that's
a you know, it's not off the top of your head.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
That's I feel like it's like it'd be like it'd
be like me saying like it's like the sky on
a cloudless day.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
That's fair. That's fair. I mean for you guys over
there and uh, you know on the Pacific Northwest, you've
never seen one of those, so you have no idea
what we're talking about. Sorry or.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
If you sorry, if you if you order like a
drink at a bar and they use like the blue
curracal or carousel currousel, Yeah, it's kind of like that
electric blue.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Okay, that is a pretty blue. Yeah, that's not a
natural blue, right, I would just say so yeah, But okay,
so they say that blue is not a natural color,
but I've come to find various peculiarities that have been
blue like in nature, but usually they would be like
poison related or whatnot. Right, Yeah, okay, but I've phoned
(20:54):
in peculiartists that are blue, so I don't know what
that's saying, but uh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah I would. I would also say that, like in
each of the sections that I kind of like divvy
them up into, I have like a favorite for each one.
So for like the red section, it would definitely be, uh,
brick red.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Brick red. Is that like that hard red like that?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, it's it's like a it's like a little bit
warmer than maroon.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Okay, so like a brick wall. Yeah yeah, brick red, brickwall.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Great for grape for lipstick, ah okay. And in the
orange yellow section, so I don't, I don't, I hardly
use it. But there is a crown literally called macaroni
and cheese, and I've always thought that was really funny.
So that's your favorite from from the orange Yeah yeah, yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:54):
But that does it look like macaroni and cheese in
terms of color?
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I personally think it's a little bit too orange.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
It looks like if your macaroni and cheese didn't taste good.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's a little bit too orange.
I think something like this is closer to like mac
and cheese. This is called unmellow yellow.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Unmellow yellow looks right. Okay, so this this macaroni and
cheese orange, what would you compare it to it? It
looks like ooh, like a corn like no, no, it's
not even that. Yeah, to really give a it's really weird.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Maybe like a tangerine or something.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah, I'm not good tangerine. Yeah, you know, I those
tangerines that they kind of hide at the bottom, so
they you know what I mean, like that that that
kind of tangerine.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
That's the one that they sneak in there, and you
know it's gonna get fuzzy first, exactly. Out of the
green box, it's always been jungle green. It's like a
really cool like blue green almost.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Yeah, it is blue green. It's not like green green.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
It's it's gray gray for dinosaurs. Out of the purple box,
I've always been a fan.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Of plum plum.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
It's a it's a reddish Yeah, it's a reddish sort
of purple.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, that's uplow. That's uplow.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah. And out of the out of my like kind
of neutral tone box. So that has like peaches and
browns in it, and any of like the metallic crayons
I like mahogany. It's a good go to. It's like
a reddish brown, it's.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
A little lighter, not actual mahogany, But that's like that
that I didn't know, Like, what would you call that?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I'm not gonna say it.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
But if it's that color, then you're you might not
like something, didn't you know it? Well, if it's I.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Don't know, maybe like a good like vintage, vintage, Uh.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yeah maybe yeah, yeah, yeah, I could say that.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
But yeah. So it's my spiel on crayons.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
No, it's very informative, you know, I you know, I
appreciate you sharing it. So let me ask you a question, though,
Is there anything that would ever stop you from using crayons?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Um?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
You quit?
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Man? I feel like maybe if they jacked up the
price a lot, like if my crayons cost the same
as like your markers, I might have to have a thought.
I might have to have to think about it.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
And well, when do you throw away a crayon? Because
I see varying points here. You guys can't see it,
but you know you have some that are sharp, some
that are have could have been around for a while,
Like when when did it you use one to the
numb or Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So my my most commonly used crayon is easily black.
I will also give a shout out to our good
friend Jake for buying me a whole pack of blacks
because very nice. Yeah so I just kind of pop
them in whenever they get a little bit too nubbany.
But but no, I don't typically throw them away. Uh.
(25:04):
I guess I just like kind of move on to
a new box.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
But at the same time, I also have like a
couple of boxes of you know these, Like they're not
bad per se, but I'm not really sure what to
do with them.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Not such they're they're smart, they're short, and they're not sharp.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah okay, but it's also like a fascinating visual representation
on as to like what gets used. That's true, Like
white is like almost always new.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Yeah, that's fair. What's interesting though, I'll say this, you know,
before we wrap up, I have flirted with using your crayons,
Like there have been shows where we've gone to like
some impromptu shows where it wasn't planned, like you know,
we ended up and we just set up randomly because
we had some stuff on us and I didn't have
any stuff and I used their creons and it's fun,
Like I've gotten some really cool results. Like you know, yes,
(25:52):
I'll rag on her for our crayons, but I've been
tempted to just shift to crayons as well, or even
just to mix the media, Like you know, i'd use
crayons for skin in or certain other things, and then
I use maybe a marker or something else for other
little things, and just to make a kind of hybrid
image which you've done for people. Yeah, where she'll color
crayon for the character and then I'll color the background,
(26:14):
you know, with markers and vice versa, depending on what's required.
It works well with pets, right. I think it's when
she does the when you have the crayon effects for
the you don't have to do that much work for
the fur, and it kind of gives a nice texture
to it as well. So just a little bit of
inside baseball for you guys on how the paper Lab
Sausage is made.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
You can listen to us on all podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
You can find us at paper Lab Studios on Instagram
or paper lab studios dot com, or just drop us
a line at design at paper lab studios dot.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Com and support us on Patreon, at paper Lab Studios,
thank you for listening to paper La.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Podcast A Mango Music.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Turn that music up.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Past toost
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Thst tost
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
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