March 4, 2025 • 24 mins
In any given profession, injuries can occur on the job, and artists are no exception! Nicki and Mervyn talk about some common art-related injuries and how to cope with them (without resorting to surgery). We're not gonna lie, this podcast is a little bit corny!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Nicky McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer
and traditional artist.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrator, storyteller and digital artists.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You're listening to podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
You hear that music?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
He stole it off the internet, just kidding.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
It's spicy beats b E E T S and he
hates beats. Let's check you out that SoundCloud. Hello and welcome.
(00:47):
Are we back?
Speaker 4 (00:49):
We're so back.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, we knows that it's part of even stay in
the show. But yeah, it's paper Lab podcast and we're
here with new information, new wisdom to drop on, your
new knowledge to share.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Do you do? Do you so?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, we don't have a soundboard, as you can tell,
this is a very high end operation over here.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
But what what did we want to talk to everyone about? Today?
Speaker 5 (01:16):
So? Yeah, So with this podcast, I think we wanted
to relate things kind of sort of back to the
art world, but also just talk about our personal experiences
and find out new and exciting things.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Okay, so if we're doing that, what you know, are
you going to say this is kind of educational? Is
Is it going to be that like oh that scary
E word?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Dare I say? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (01:43):
I mean I think that like one of the things
that we're both interested in is just learning new things.
And I would definitely say that educational material.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Is a part of it. So why are we here?
What's this? What's what's this whole thing about?
Speaker 5 (02:00):
So so today we're interested in talking about I think
as artists, I feel like there's a sort of proof
almost that you could say that people have along the
way of sort of maintaining and sort of like perfecting
their art careers along the way and along in that time,
(02:24):
there's like there's there sort of becomes like a tangible
proof almost.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, Like yeah, it's I referred to it as like
art injuries in a way, but maybe that's not the
best term.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
That's just my term, I guess.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And what I mean by that is kind of like, so, okay,
my fingers right as a kid, I would draw profusely.
I have confirmation because I asked my mother herself when
she was on this earth, asked her, you know, did
I really draw that much, and she's like, yep, that's
all you would do. So I know these memories aren't false.
(02:59):
But one specific thing that happened was her my sister
whoever else would say, hey, don't press so hard when
you draw, right. So, I mean, everybody has different ways
of holding pencils or pens or whatever. And some of
you might be like, no, I don't hold my pen
like anybody else. Okay, fine, you're very unique and special.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
But the rest.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Of us, you know, pleaves, we hold our pens and
pencils a certain way, right, And if you recall how
that's held, like the middle finger.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Sometimes if you.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Hold it really like you have a lot of pressure,
you will develop like a corn. And my mother and
sister would specifically say, hey, don't do it like like
you're gonna have a corn. You're gonna you know, because
all the pressure and whatnot. I guess I knew from
you know, wearing tight shoes, you.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Know, calling out. Yeah, I just called you out.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So I ended up having a corn, and I've had
it my whole life. I was embarrassed of it, like
growing up, and I mean, no, I just don't care.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
I have terrible fingers. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Somebody did say my fingers have character the other day.
They saw like it was me holding a camera and
a picture I don't know.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
It was some weird whatever picture I.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Don't remember, and they're like, oh my gosh, you have
really cool fingers.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I'm like, what.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Because usually because okay, so I have like two injuries.
I have one on my middle finger where it's the corn,
and then I have a messed up nail because I slammed.
It was the door slamming. I think, well, both both
of these are door slams. And then which.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Fingers this second, the one next to your ring finger,
my ring finger? Well is it my ring finger? If
it's on my right hand.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
It's still a well. I think they still refer to Okay, yeah, okay, index.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Ring finger, he's the man who will get married.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
No, And I have another one from an injury. And
what's funny is, yes, those aren't deliberately aren't related. But
the corn on the on the middle finger. Maybe just
stop caring about my finger because for me it looked deformed.
Everybody had like their regular form fingers, right, and then
I had my little like little corn on my finger,
(05:13):
so I would hide it, right. But the thing is
is I worked as a badge of honor now you
know it's it's it's for me, like I think about
it that it's it's thankfully I've gotten to this point
in life where I'm like, no, this is pretty cool.
You know it's it's it's a sign that I've I
drew almost every.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Day of my life, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
And and all that training is like in that little
weird calcified piece of skin just poking out of my
my finger, and you know, it's it's it's like a
word badge of honor.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
It's is like it's it's a nice reminder.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
So it's like a physical manifestation, I guess in a
way of all of like the hours of art that
you've put into practice. And yeah, yeah, And I'll just
back up and say that just in case you're wondering
what a corn is, because I would also assume that
maybe not everybody.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Has them or has experience with them.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
A corn is a thickened area of skin that forms
a response to friction or pressure over a period of time,
and and they're they're an extremely common like skin condition,
and there's also different.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Types of corns.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
You have hard corns, which are I think like the
one on your middle finger.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
I like sweet corn personally.
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Cream corn, and they tend to be firmer, whereas I
also found out that there are things called soft corns
and they.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, that's not good.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Oh no, it's not. They tend to look more like
an open sore.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, that would happen after eleven o'clock in certain channels
in the nineties.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Also, corns and calluses are not the same thing.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
So corns are pretty much in like a very specific
area sort of relegated to like a very like smaller
whereas like calases can be on like a much larger
area and it's it's it's more like tough in skin.
So like if you think about it, like a corn
would just be kind of like a smaller patch where
it's like a callus would be.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
So like callouses. You know, A more common.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
Example of where that would be on your hand is
like the palm for example, Like if you do like
a lot.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Of like heavy lifting.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Like that's the thing because people like I think, tend
to use them interchangeably.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Okay, yeah that's true. I so wait, so so corn
corn is more localized than a callus is more like
a larger Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
A larger area like my feet, like you can have
balan okay, gotcha?
Speaker 4 (07:44):
And and can I interrupt?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I just you know that is like I like that's
a badge of vana, like growing up in Jamaica, like
having calluses on your feet because you can walk on stones.
Mind you, I'm not saying how Jamaicans can do this.
I'm sort OF's some Jamaica's out there and say, oh
dare you make a don't like where bush people. But
I'm just saying I could walk on stones back in
the day, I could walk on any surface.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
I'm extremely envious. I have very soft beef.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Well, you know, I was like Jack Hawks Moore, you
grow up in Jamaica.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
If you don't know who that is, google treads, yeah,
google Jack Hawks Moore.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
And then if I were to just say too, I
guess I spent an equally uh large amount of time
practicing drawing growing up and instead of using those little
I don't know if you guys had them in Jamaica,
but they're kind of like little pencil pillows almost, or
like little pencil cushions, Like they go on like the
(08:37):
end of like.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Oh, yes, yes, they were so cool. Yeah, they were so.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
Cool and I guess I didn't use those enough or
like I didn't get all the time.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Yeah yeah, because I you.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
Know, I think I think every kind of like kid
growing up, like had them on their pencils, but they
sure as hecton.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Uh saying you have corns, getting yeah I have, I have.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
A b I could barely tell I have a real corn.
Come on, we have beautiful finger.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
No, well it's funny too, because I was listening to another.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I don't know if the segues into it too.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
Much, but I found out that there are what are
called parts models, and you wouldn't think about it, but
there are people that their entire modeling modeling career is
just for parts like.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Their hands or like their feet.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
Or yeah I could not sell and they and they
make fun of them in movies like what was it like?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Like oh, in like Zoolander, like Tom Cruise's.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
Character as like his hand like phrathetically sealed him like
the glass and stuff like that. So I don't know,
I appreciate the compliment, but I personally don't see myself
becoming a hand model anytimes.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, well I think you have nice fingers, but you know,
I mean not these fingers.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Listen, if any of you have ever seen my fingers.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Literally, you could cast me in a horror movie just
a hand right, I'm telling you I might.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Be the next Sensation.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I'm the new Freddy, I'm the new Jason Baby hands
higher coming soon this October.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
So how did you get your corner?
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Like? What?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
This was just from pressing down? Yeah, pressing down.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
I think I've always had a heavy hand, I mean
like and I still do these days. Like I think
like you know, when I'm in the midst of it,
will be at a show and I'll be using my
my trustee coloring told the old crayon, and I've been
known to just snap them in half.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Wow, So you still haven't learned to regulate strength. I'm
just just the hulk over here. It's true.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
I just hulk out and I don't even know my
own strength.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
But when did you develop it?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Like?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
What? What?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Because I knew mine developed in single digits? So think
about that with weird my weird fingers and around kids. Mind,
you know, kid ever really noticed or cared or made
fun of me?
Speaker 5 (10:56):
Like I didn't have and like, I feel like this
has been around since elementary school.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Okay, the same as well.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
Yeah, and I you know, I feel like every chance
I got, you know, I was just drawing on like
little school.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
What did you think? Did you care?
Speaker 5 (11:09):
No?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
I don't think I thought anything of it in that way.
I was, you know, It's like also to my mom's
a nurse, so.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
I think if it had really been like, you know, terrible,
she would have said, oh, let's go get this checked out.
So I guess it's it's like a relatively benign thing.
It just might you know, prevent you from becoming a
parts model.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Well, I guess she didn't have any dreams for you
modeling those fingers, for which a home shopping network or
anything YEA or QBC. Yeah, but okay, So so it's interesting.
I mean, I guess I could ask my sister, but
she probably wouldn't remember. But I wish I had this
question ready before because I would ask, so, how did
(11:51):
you know? I was like, because none of them draw
for a living. So and even my mom, I wasn't
a part of her work. So I'm like, what connected
the corn and the finger?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Like?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Why were you just warning me off this? Thing, like
how hard was I pressing. I must have been pressing
real hard for them to notice, because they.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Aren't you know what I mean, they aren't artists.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
They weren't monitoring everything I drew, so I must have
been like violently like holding that pencil.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
It was like insanely dark on the yeah, right on
the paper.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I was like tearing through all the paper. Actual just hole.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, it's just holes. There are actually no drawings from
my childhood. It's just like ripped paper.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
Savage puncture marks between the teeth of the paper.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah, but that's.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
That's a little That's interesting to me that they were
aware of that, because I just like, there wasn't the internet,
you know, back then, you just look up anything.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
I was like, oh, well, don't let your kid do
this because blah blah blah. But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Maybe my sisul remember, but she doesn't remember anything from them,
so who knows. But I didn't want to add this thing.
The only you know, before I talked about how people
hold pencils or pens. The only reason why I mentioned
that is because there are several artists and I'm sure
maybe writers. I don't know that hole their their pens.
And pencils in very different ways. For example, there's an
(13:05):
artist named Traad Moore who draws in a.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Very cool way, Like he has a very cool style.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
He he drew this book I really love called The
Strange Talent of Luther Strode.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Oh yeah yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I saw him drawing in person that it was a
Baltimore comic on a few years ago, and it was
it was so fascinating, Like he think of this like
just just take your hand right now, right, listener, and just.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
What do you call this?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Like pretend like you're just gripping like a club or
or or a baseball bat or something like right, and
then just pretend and then that baseball bat is actually
a pen or pencil and then just you know, roll
it around on a on a on a.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Piece of paper or surface. That's how he draws. And
he makes some really cool stuff, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
So I mean, like people can have just very different
ways and different techniques. And you know, I wonder if
he has any art injuries or you know or whatever,
you know, I call him our injuries, but whatever, any
little markers of his style, you know, if he has
calluses or corns or whatever. Oh maybe if I ever
see him again, I'll.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Ask Yeah, also too.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
It's interesting because depending on which hand you use to
write or draw, it's considered such a complex skill that
that is what indicates your dominant hand. It's not whether
or not you like catch you can catch a ball
or like that sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
It's specifically like which hand you used to write.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So that's interesting. So how does that work? How did
that work?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Like pre you know, written word like you know what
I mean, and I guess it would be whatever you well, yes,
people are still drawing even when they didn't have language
yea or the kfpain things.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
So what if you're ambidextrous because I think I could
use my left hand. I just this stuff isn't as pretty.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
But I feel like just because I practice with my
right hand more, I think I probably could have been
on bidextrous if if it yeah totally yeah, yeah, I
mean but but is that does that factor into that study,
like like with the dominant hand stuff, or is it
just a yeah?
Speaker 5 (15:11):
I mean I think that like they they would take
into account that. I mean, anybody could technically be amid extras,
it's just whether or not you like regularly use it.
Because I think like too.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yeah, okay, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Well, I guess the pathway is open is just you
know whether you want to go down it because it's
going to be a rougher road. Yeah, because you don't
use it as much. Choker, that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Maybe I'll try and practice drawing some stuff with my
left hand again. Yeah, sell that to people. See who
pays for that?
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Yeah, and so just moving on.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
And I know that you definitely have a story regarding this,
but one of the other common things that is considered
an artist injury would definitely be carpal tunnel syndrome.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
That's yeah, that was interesting because maybe it was more
than ten years ago less than ten years ago, right, Yeah,
like I started having like a pain, but it wasn't.
But here's a weird thing. It wasn't my left hand. Yeah,
that's the weird part. I mean I did start practicing
with my left hand, so maybe it's like my left
hand was so lazy.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
That is like, come on, man, didn't the right one
do enough work?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
You are not ambidextrous?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Yeah right, okay, okay, all right, well listen, don't destroy
my dreams like that. But no, like I had the
sharp pain and also had the sharp pain in like
my nerves and whatnot, and just even when I wasn't
moving it it would just like just strike, you.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
And it's I know, it's common in a lot of
the artists. I believe the late George Perez may have
had a few, you know, doubts of it.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yeah, and he was great.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
But the fascinating thing is with even him, he had
like eye trouble as a result. And I'm gonna use
him him as an example of just like severe like
artists injuries. Because Justice League versus Avengers, right, JA Avengers,
like probably one of his greatest works. On that book,
(17:23):
if you get the chance, Google, I think it's a
cover for either issue three, JLA Avengers issue three or
JA Avengers issue four. Anyway, it's a cover where it's
like every Avenger and Justice League or ever.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
It's a rapper on cover. Ever. That that's and he
drew that.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
And that whole book, and that whole four issues not
even regular size comic books, you know, they were like
double size, I guess, and all four issues he drew
every character that had existed in those comics up to
that point in the in those books, and he you know,
he didn't gip and that really had a took a
(18:02):
toll on him in terms of his eyes and his
hands and and but it's a brilliant piece of work.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
You look at this and you're like.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Wow, this this man, this man really really devoted his
life to his craft. And you know, yes, that that
did take me off of talking about my carpal tunnel.
But it was, it was, it was much minor in
comparison to it is. It did hurt, it was painful,
and I would just say this. Everybody, like a lot
of doctors or medical people would suggest getting a get
(18:36):
cutting and what's it? And I didn't surgery, Yeah, surgery, sorry, surgery.
And what's fascinating is up here that's what they did.
Fascinating is I remember going to Jamaica in was twenty fourteen, right, yeah,
and my sister got me a doctor's appointment with a
he was like a cricket doctor, so he's a sports doctor,
(18:57):
right if you're not familiar with cricket. And he looked
at it and he was like, well, I asked him
about the cutting. Is like, we're gonna have to search
your doctor and he's like, no, that's the last thing
you should do.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
And he said it in this order.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
And I don't know what this says about you know
how things work, you know elsewhere.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
But the doctor didn't know him from anybody.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I'm not a sports person, so I don't have sports
people money. But he gave me good advice. He knew
that because here's the thing he said this. He said,
first thing, I'm going to give you a proper brace, right,
and you and painkillers if you want to take them.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
You don't have to, but if you choose to take
them here.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
If that, if the problem still persists after a month
or three months, I can remember what the number was anymore,
then we're going to give you steroids.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
I don't want to give you sterois, but that's the
next step.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
If it persists after another month or three months, whatever
it was, then we may have to consider some kind
of surgery. And he's like, that is a last resort
because if you do surgery, it will never be the same.
While you know, it's interesting up here in the States,
it was just strange that everyone was suggesting, yeah, you
(20:09):
need to.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Get an operation. And I was like, oh, wow, okay, but.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
No, the doctor, you know, he told me that, and
he could have made more money on me.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
A surgery is gonna be more expensive.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
If I'm gonna have persistent problems, I'm clearly gonna have
to keep coming.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
In for checkups, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Maybe it's because he knew I was passing through, but
at the end of the day, he'd still be making
more money on a surgery probably, you know, he'd been
making more money period. So I really did appreciate that.
And you know, I haven't had the problem again. I
wore the brace, That's all I did. I didn't take
the painkillers. I just wore the brace and it picks
(20:44):
itself after.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Was a month.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Yeah, it was a relatively short.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Amount of time, because this was happening for like a
year or two already now, Yeah, on and off, and
it was just and I haven't had the problem again.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I lost the brace though, which sucks. I don't remember
the type of brace I need to I need. I mean,
it hasn't happened again. So that was That was definitely
a good thing, and and hopefully, you know, you guys
can learn from that too.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
And what what were you gonna say? Sorry?
Speaker 5 (21:14):
Oh yeah, well, thankfully he followed the hippocratic oas and yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, exactly, No, he wasn't a hypocrite, yeah ba Zinca.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
So yeah, I mean it makes sense because carpal tunnel
syndrome is a nerve syndrome. Uh, and so that h
So what you might have been feeling is like a
numbness and tingling in the hand an arm caused by
a pinched nerve in the wrist. And in terms of
like wrist anatomy, you're supposed to provide proper support so
that the nerve isn't pinched.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
So that's essentially like what the brace was doing for you.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Ah, it was just giving it some time to rest
and just chill.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Yeah, like sleep in bed for a while.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Dude.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Okay, okay, okay, Well thankfully you know he he was
aware of that and didn't want to make some extra
money chop in my hand.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
That's really cool and hopefully you guys, you know, we're
able to get something from this. We kind of wanted
to just share a bit more about us, about you know,
the things that we've gone through on this journey, this
art journey, and uh, we're gonna share some more. So
looking forward to having you guys sit down right in
(22:27):
front of us, because we can see all of you
right now.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
You know, legs folded on the ground, you know, you
know what do you call it?
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Like?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Their their heads resting on their arms, on their hands,
just listening to us intently grap attention exactly exactly where
we see you, so I, you know, hopefully see you
next time.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
Hey, hey, hey.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
You can listen to us on all podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
You can find us at pay per lap Studios on
Instagram or payperlap studios dot com, or just drop us
a line at design at paper lab studios dot com.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
And support us on Patreon at paper Lab Studios. Thank
you for listening to paper Lab podcast.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Amongo Music, Turn that music up.
Hi, I'm Nicky McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer
and traditional artist.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrator, storyteller and digital artists.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You're listening to podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
You hear that music?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
He stole it off the internet, just kidding.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
It's spicy beats b E E T S and he
hates beats. Let's check you out that SoundCloud. Hello and welcome.
(00:47):
Are we back?
Speaker 4 (00:49):
We're so back.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, we knows that it's part of even stay in
the show. But yeah, it's paper Lab podcast and we're
here with new information, new wisdom to drop on, your
new knowledge to share.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Do you do? Do you so?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, we don't have a soundboard, as you can tell,
this is a very high end operation over here.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
But what what did we want to talk to everyone about? Today?
Speaker 5 (01:16):
So? Yeah, So with this podcast, I think we wanted
to relate things kind of sort of back to the
art world, but also just talk about our personal experiences
and find out new and exciting things.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Okay, so if we're doing that, what you know, are
you going to say this is kind of educational? Is
Is it going to be that like oh that scary
E word?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Dare I say? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (01:43):
I mean I think that like one of the things
that we're both interested in is just learning new things.
And I would definitely say that educational material.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Is a part of it. So why are we here?
What's this? What's what's this whole thing about?
Speaker 5 (02:00):
So so today we're interested in talking about I think
as artists, I feel like there's a sort of proof
almost that you could say that people have along the
way of sort of maintaining and sort of like perfecting
their art careers along the way and along in that time,
(02:24):
there's like there's there sort of becomes like a tangible
proof almost.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, Like yeah, it's I referred to it as like
art injuries in a way, but maybe that's not the
best term.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
That's just my term, I guess.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And what I mean by that is kind of like, so, okay,
my fingers right as a kid, I would draw profusely.
I have confirmation because I asked my mother herself when
she was on this earth, asked her, you know, did
I really draw that much, and she's like, yep, that's
all you would do. So I know these memories aren't false.
(02:59):
But one specific thing that happened was her my sister
whoever else would say, hey, don't press so hard when
you draw, right. So, I mean, everybody has different ways
of holding pencils or pens or whatever. And some of
you might be like, no, I don't hold my pen
like anybody else. Okay, fine, you're very unique and special.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
But the rest.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Of us, you know, pleaves, we hold our pens and
pencils a certain way, right, And if you recall how
that's held, like the middle finger.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Sometimes if you.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Hold it really like you have a lot of pressure,
you will develop like a corn. And my mother and
sister would specifically say, hey, don't do it like like
you're gonna have a corn. You're gonna you know, because
all the pressure and whatnot. I guess I knew from
you know, wearing tight shoes, you.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Know, calling out. Yeah, I just called you out.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So I ended up having a corn, and I've had
it my whole life. I was embarrassed of it, like
growing up, and I mean, no, I just don't care.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
I have terrible fingers. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Somebody did say my fingers have character the other day.
They saw like it was me holding a camera and
a picture I don't know.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
It was some weird whatever picture I.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Don't remember, and they're like, oh my gosh, you have
really cool fingers.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I'm like, what.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Because usually because okay, so I have like two injuries.
I have one on my middle finger where it's the corn,
and then I have a messed up nail because I slammed.
It was the door slamming. I think, well, both both
of these are door slams. And then which.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Fingers this second, the one next to your ring finger,
my ring finger? Well is it my ring finger? If
it's on my right hand.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
It's still a well. I think they still refer to Okay, yeah, okay, index.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Ring finger, he's the man who will get married.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
No, And I have another one from an injury. And
what's funny is, yes, those aren't deliberately aren't related. But
the corn on the on the middle finger. Maybe just
stop caring about my finger because for me it looked deformed.
Everybody had like their regular form fingers, right, and then
I had my little like little corn on my finger,
(05:13):
so I would hide it, right. But the thing is
is I worked as a badge of honor now you
know it's it's it's for me, like I think about
it that it's it's thankfully I've gotten to this point
in life where I'm like, no, this is pretty cool.
You know it's it's it's a sign that I've I
drew almost every.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Day of my life, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
And and all that training is like in that little
weird calcified piece of skin just poking out of my
my finger, and you know, it's it's it's like a
word badge of honor.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
It's is like it's it's a nice reminder.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
So it's like a physical manifestation, I guess in a
way of all of like the hours of art that
you've put into practice. And yeah, yeah, And I'll just
back up and say that just in case you're wondering
what a corn is, because I would also assume that
maybe not everybody.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Has them or has experience with them.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
A corn is a thickened area of skin that forms
a response to friction or pressure over a period of time,
and and they're they're an extremely common like skin condition,
and there's also different.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Types of corns.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
You have hard corns, which are I think like the
one on your middle finger.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
I like sweet corn personally.
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Cream corn, and they tend to be firmer, whereas I
also found out that there are things called soft corns
and they.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, that's not good.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
Oh no, it's not. They tend to look more like
an open sore.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, that would happen after eleven o'clock in certain channels
in the nineties.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Also, corns and calluses are not the same thing.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
So corns are pretty much in like a very specific
area sort of relegated to like a very like smaller
whereas like calases can be on like a much larger
area and it's it's it's more like tough in skin.
So like if you think about it, like a corn
would just be kind of like a smaller patch where
it's like a callus would be.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
So like callouses. You know, A more common.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
Example of where that would be on your hand is
like the palm for example, Like if you do like
a lot.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Of like heavy lifting.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Like that's the thing because people like I think, tend
to use them interchangeably.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Okay, yeah that's true. I so wait, so so corn
corn is more localized than a callus is more like
a larger Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
A larger area like my feet, like you can have
balan okay, gotcha?
Speaker 4 (07:44):
And and can I interrupt?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I just you know that is like I like that's
a badge of vana, like growing up in Jamaica, like
having calluses on your feet because you can walk on stones.
Mind you, I'm not saying how Jamaicans can do this.
I'm sort OF's some Jamaica's out there and say, oh
dare you make a don't like where bush people. But
I'm just saying I could walk on stones back in
the day, I could walk on any surface.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
I'm extremely envious. I have very soft beef.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Well, you know, I was like Jack Hawks Moore, you
grow up in Jamaica.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
If you don't know who that is, google treads, yeah,
google Jack Hawks Moore.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
And then if I were to just say too, I
guess I spent an equally uh large amount of time
practicing drawing growing up and instead of using those little
I don't know if you guys had them in Jamaica,
but they're kind of like little pencil pillows almost, or
like little pencil cushions, Like they go on like the
(08:37):
end of like.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Oh, yes, yes, they were so cool. Yeah, they were so.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
Cool and I guess I didn't use those enough or
like I didn't get all the time.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Yeah yeah, because I you.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
Know, I think I think every kind of like kid
growing up, like had them on their pencils, but they
sure as hecton.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Uh saying you have corns, getting yeah I have, I have.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
A b I could barely tell I have a real corn.
Come on, we have beautiful finger.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
No, well it's funny too, because I was listening to another.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I don't know if the segues into it too.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
Much, but I found out that there are what are
called parts models, and you wouldn't think about it, but
there are people that their entire modeling modeling career is
just for parts like.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Their hands or like their feet.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
Or yeah I could not sell and they and they
make fun of them in movies like what was it like?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Like oh, in like Zoolander, like Tom Cruise's.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
Character as like his hand like phrathetically sealed him like
the glass and stuff like that. So I don't know,
I appreciate the compliment, but I personally don't see myself
becoming a hand model anytimes.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, well I think you have nice fingers, but you know,
I mean not these fingers.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Listen, if any of you have ever seen my fingers.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Literally, you could cast me in a horror movie just
a hand right, I'm telling you I might.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Be the next Sensation.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I'm the new Freddy, I'm the new Jason Baby hands
higher coming soon this October.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
So how did you get your corner?
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Like? What?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
This was just from pressing down? Yeah, pressing down.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
I think I've always had a heavy hand, I mean
like and I still do these days. Like I think
like you know, when I'm in the midst of it,
will be at a show and I'll be using my
my trustee coloring told the old crayon, and I've been
known to just snap them in half.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Wow, So you still haven't learned to regulate strength. I'm
just just the hulk over here. It's true.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
I just hulk out and I don't even know my
own strength.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
But when did you develop it?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Like?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
What? What?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Because I knew mine developed in single digits? So think
about that with weird my weird fingers and around kids. Mind,
you know, kid ever really noticed or cared or made
fun of me?
Speaker 5 (10:56):
Like I didn't have and like, I feel like this
has been around since elementary school.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Okay, the same as well.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
Yeah, and I you know, I feel like every chance
I got, you know, I was just drawing on like
little school.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
What did you think? Did you care?
Speaker 5 (11:09):
No?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
I don't think I thought anything of it in that way.
I was, you know, It's like also to my mom's
a nurse, so.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
I think if it had really been like, you know, terrible,
she would have said, oh, let's go get this checked out.
So I guess it's it's like a relatively benign thing.
It just might you know, prevent you from becoming a
parts model.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Well, I guess she didn't have any dreams for you
modeling those fingers, for which a home shopping network or
anything YEA or QBC. Yeah, but okay, So so it's interesting.
I mean, I guess I could ask my sister, but
she probably wouldn't remember. But I wish I had this
question ready before because I would ask, so, how did
(11:51):
you know? I was like, because none of them draw
for a living. So and even my mom, I wasn't
a part of her work. So I'm like, what connected
the corn and the finger?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Like?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Why were you just warning me off this? Thing, like
how hard was I pressing. I must have been pressing
real hard for them to notice, because they.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Aren't you know what I mean, they aren't artists.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
They weren't monitoring everything I drew, so I must have
been like violently like holding that pencil.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
It was like insanely dark on the yeah, right on
the paper.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I was like tearing through all the paper. Actual just hole.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, it's just holes. There are actually no drawings from
my childhood. It's just like ripped paper.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
Savage puncture marks between the teeth of the paper.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah, but that's.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
That's a little That's interesting to me that they were
aware of that, because I just like, there wasn't the internet,
you know, back then, you just look up anything.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
I was like, oh, well, don't let your kid do
this because blah blah blah. But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Maybe my sisul remember, but she doesn't remember anything from them,
so who knows. But I didn't want to add this thing.
The only you know, before I talked about how people
hold pencils or pens. The only reason why I mentioned
that is because there are several artists and I'm sure
maybe writers. I don't know that hole their their pens.
And pencils in very different ways. For example, there's an
(13:05):
artist named Traad Moore who draws in a.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Very cool way, Like he has a very cool style.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
He he drew this book I really love called The
Strange Talent of Luther Strode.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Oh yeah yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I saw him drawing in person that it was a
Baltimore comic on a few years ago, and it was
it was so fascinating, Like he think of this like
just just take your hand right now, right, listener, and just.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
What do you call this?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Like pretend like you're just gripping like a club or
or or a baseball bat or something like right, and
then just pretend and then that baseball bat is actually
a pen or pencil and then just you know, roll
it around on a on a on a.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Piece of paper or surface. That's how he draws. And
he makes some really cool stuff, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
So I mean, like people can have just very different
ways and different techniques. And you know, I wonder if
he has any art injuries or you know or whatever,
you know, I call him our injuries, but whatever, any
little markers of his style, you know, if he has
calluses or corns or whatever. Oh maybe if I ever
see him again, I'll.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Ask Yeah, also too.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
It's interesting because depending on which hand you use to
write or draw, it's considered such a complex skill that
that is what indicates your dominant hand. It's not whether
or not you like catch you can catch a ball
or like that sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
It's specifically like which hand you used to write.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So that's interesting. So how does that work? How did
that work?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Like pre you know, written word like you know what
I mean, and I guess it would be whatever you well, yes,
people are still drawing even when they didn't have language
yea or the kfpain things.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
So what if you're ambidextrous because I think I could
use my left hand. I just this stuff isn't as pretty.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
But I feel like just because I practice with my
right hand more, I think I probably could have been
on bidextrous if if it yeah totally yeah, yeah, I
mean but but is that does that factor into that study,
like like with the dominant hand stuff, or is it
just a yeah?
Speaker 5 (15:11):
I mean I think that like they they would take
into account that. I mean, anybody could technically be amid extras,
it's just whether or not you like regularly use it.
Because I think like too.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yeah, okay, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Well, I guess the pathway is open is just you
know whether you want to go down it because it's
going to be a rougher road. Yeah, because you don't
use it as much. Choker, that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Maybe I'll try and practice drawing some stuff with my
left hand again. Yeah, sell that to people. See who
pays for that?
Speaker 4 (15:43):
Yeah, and so just moving on.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
And I know that you definitely have a story regarding this,
but one of the other common things that is considered
an artist injury would definitely be carpal tunnel syndrome.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
That's yeah, that was interesting because maybe it was more
than ten years ago less than ten years ago, right, Yeah,
like I started having like a pain, but it wasn't.
But here's a weird thing. It wasn't my left hand. Yeah,
that's the weird part. I mean I did start practicing
with my left hand, so maybe it's like my left
hand was so lazy.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
That is like, come on, man, didn't the right one
do enough work?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
You are not ambidextrous?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Yeah right, okay, okay, all right, well listen, don't destroy
my dreams like that. But no, like I had the
sharp pain and also had the sharp pain in like
my nerves and whatnot, and just even when I wasn't
moving it it would just like just strike, you.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
And it's I know, it's common in a lot of
the artists. I believe the late George Perez may have
had a few, you know, doubts of it.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yeah, and he was great.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
But the fascinating thing is with even him, he had
like eye trouble as a result. And I'm gonna use
him him as an example of just like severe like
artists injuries. Because Justice League versus Avengers, right, JA Avengers,
like probably one of his greatest works. On that book,
(17:23):
if you get the chance, Google, I think it's a
cover for either issue three, JLA Avengers issue three or
JA Avengers issue four. Anyway, it's a cover where it's
like every Avenger and Justice League or ever.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
It's a rapper on cover. Ever. That that's and he
drew that.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
And that whole book, and that whole four issues not
even regular size comic books, you know, they were like
double size, I guess, and all four issues he drew
every character that had existed in those comics up to
that point in the in those books, and he you know,
he didn't gip and that really had a took a
(18:02):
toll on him in terms of his eyes and his
hands and and but it's a brilliant piece of work.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
You look at this and you're like.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Wow, this this man, this man really really devoted his
life to his craft. And you know, yes, that that
did take me off of talking about my carpal tunnel.
But it was, it was, it was much minor in
comparison to it is. It did hurt, it was painful,
and I would just say this. Everybody, like a lot
of doctors or medical people would suggest getting a get
(18:36):
cutting and what's it? And I didn't surgery, Yeah, surgery, sorry, surgery.
And what's fascinating is up here that's what they did.
Fascinating is I remember going to Jamaica in was twenty fourteen, right, yeah,
and my sister got me a doctor's appointment with a
he was like a cricket doctor, so he's a sports doctor,
(18:57):
right if you're not familiar with cricket. And he looked
at it and he was like, well, I asked him
about the cutting. Is like, we're gonna have to search
your doctor and he's like, no, that's the last thing
you should do.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
And he said it in this order.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
And I don't know what this says about you know
how things work, you know elsewhere.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
But the doctor didn't know him from anybody.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I'm not a sports person, so I don't have sports
people money. But he gave me good advice. He knew
that because here's the thing he said this. He said,
first thing, I'm going to give you a proper brace, right,
and you and painkillers if you want to take them.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
You don't have to, but if you choose to take
them here.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
If that, if the problem still persists after a month
or three months, I can remember what the number was anymore,
then we're going to give you steroids.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
I don't want to give you sterois, but that's the
next step.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
If it persists after another month or three months, whatever
it was, then we may have to consider some kind
of surgery. And he's like, that is a last resort
because if you do surgery, it will never be the same.
While you know, it's interesting up here in the States,
it was just strange that everyone was suggesting, yeah, you
(20:09):
need to.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Get an operation. And I was like, oh, wow, okay, but.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
No, the doctor, you know, he told me that, and
he could have made more money on me.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
A surgery is gonna be more expensive.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
If I'm gonna have persistent problems, I'm clearly gonna have
to keep coming.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
In for checkups, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Maybe it's because he knew I was passing through, but
at the end of the day, he'd still be making
more money on a surgery probably, you know, he'd been
making more money period. So I really did appreciate that.
And you know, I haven't had the problem again. I
wore the brace, That's all I did. I didn't take
the painkillers. I just wore the brace and it picks
(20:44):
itself after.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Was a month.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Yeah, it was a relatively short.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Amount of time, because this was happening for like a
year or two already now, Yeah, on and off, and
it was just and I haven't had the problem again.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I lost the brace though, which sucks. I don't remember
the type of brace I need to I need. I mean,
it hasn't happened again. So that was That was definitely
a good thing, and and hopefully, you know, you guys
can learn from that too.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
And what what were you gonna say? Sorry?
Speaker 5 (21:14):
Oh yeah, well, thankfully he followed the hippocratic oas and yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, exactly, No, he wasn't a hypocrite, yeah ba Zinca.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
So yeah, I mean it makes sense because carpal tunnel
syndrome is a nerve syndrome. Uh, and so that h
So what you might have been feeling is like a
numbness and tingling in the hand an arm caused by
a pinched nerve in the wrist. And in terms of
like wrist anatomy, you're supposed to provide proper support so
that the nerve isn't pinched.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
So that's essentially like what the brace was doing for you.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Ah, it was just giving it some time to rest
and just chill.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Yeah, like sleep in bed for a while.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Dude.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Okay, okay, okay, Well thankfully you know he he was
aware of that and didn't want to make some extra
money chop in my hand.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
That's really cool and hopefully you guys, you know, we're
able to get something from this. We kind of wanted
to just share a bit more about us, about you know,
the things that we've gone through on this journey, this
art journey, and uh, we're gonna share some more. So
looking forward to having you guys sit down right in
(22:27):
front of us, because we can see all of you
right now.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
You know, legs folded on the ground, you know, you
know what do you call it?
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Like?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Their their heads resting on their arms, on their hands,
just listening to us intently grap attention exactly exactly where
we see you, so I, you know, hopefully see you
next time.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
Hey, hey, hey.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
You can listen to us on all podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
You can find us at pay per lap Studios on
Instagram or payperlap studios dot com, or just drop us
a line at design at paper lab studios dot com.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
And support us on Patreon at paper Lab Studios. Thank
you for listening to paper Lab podcast.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Amongo Music, Turn that music up.
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