March 14, 2025 • 23 mins
We continue our discussion on art-related injuries, and Nicki makes some confessions regarding her childhood art career. Mervyn also mentions some preventative measures while Nicki encourages being aware of your surroundings during the art-making process.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Nicki McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer,
and traditional artist.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrator, storyteller and digital artists.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You're listening to Paper podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
You hear that music?
Speaker 5 (00:24):
She stole it off the internet. Just kidding. It's spicy
beats b E E T S and he hates beats.
Let's check you out that SoundCloud.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
So on our last podcast, we were talking about art
injuries and how you can kind of show your badge
honor of being an artist.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Physical oh gosh, in tears.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
So yeah, so we just wanted to continue that and
one of the things that I wanted to talk about
and you may or may not have experience with, but
it's that artists can be exposed to toxic materials and
so this can cause anything from allergies to unfortunately cancer.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, I'm not encouragings were your hepa masks?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
So, I will definitely say I have had a few
uh incidences with the all sorts of mediums. I feel
like the first distinct one that I can remember, I
guess even as a kid in middle school was we
got introduced to because I went to an art magnet school,
we got introduced to the technique of stippling, which is
(01:58):
also known as pointillism in in fine art. And that's
basically like where the artist creates a series of dots
to create a shaded object.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
And it's it's extremely tedious, but the.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Final result is, yeah, the final result is there's there's
nothing like it. It's it's it's a very distinct.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yes, Mark Marazo.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
Does do that.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
And and so we're in middle school, and the medium
that we learned to do this technique with was sharpie markers.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
So you can.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Imagine like what something what size point it varied? We had,
We had the two types.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
We had like the extremely like fine point and then
just kind of like the typical sort of like regular
Well yeah, I mean it was but like it was
encouraged to use like a variation of the markers so
that it wasn't just you know, the thick point the
entire time.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Boys.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, but but yeah, so you can imagine twenty plus
kids all sitting around doing this stippling technique with a
bunch of sharpies. Yeah, no, we we definitely had to
step outside oft of stone for a little bit because
that was a doozy in terms of sharpie sharpie fumes.
(03:22):
For sure, you're like a hippie commune, but pretty much Yeah,
I like I still question some of that till like
this day.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
But I mean we made some really great work.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Did you kids end up talking about philosophy?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, there was.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Despite it being a black and white drawing, there were
colors everywhere.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Yeah right, Yeah, knew how to just writen up the place.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And I'd say like another distinctive experience was definitely in
high school we worked with a lot of charcoal, so
charcoal pencils and just like charcoal like pieces to do
everything from still life to figure drawings. And so once again,
(04:11):
imagine like twenty to thirty kids all sitting around on
like on horses. The artists the horse like it. It's
a wooden bench. It's a wooden bench, can google, yeah,
And artists the game for them are drawing horses. And
so we're just sitting there and and we'd finish our
(04:32):
drawings and you know, we'd be there for like an
hour or two, and we would all go to the
bathroom and just snort out these like.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Thick our children smart drugs.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Just until like like tissue or napkins or whatever, and
our snout would just be full of the charcoal.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Dead because I had asthma and all that.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Like. Man, So yeah, find art training, it'll uh prepare
you for.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
The real world.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I mean that was like my teens, so anywhere between
like fourteen fifteen.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Okay, so I imagine, okay, this is interesting. So was
the charcoal by like it wasn't toxic or anything like what?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I don't know, it's hard to say.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
I guess I find that it's.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Not really something that I think. You know, it's like
you think, like.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Oh, well, you know this amazing artwork came out of that,
and you know, I can't argue with that because we
were It's true, we were doing these like you know,
we would do these like six foot tall by like
three foot long like charcoal drawings, and they were magnificent.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
But you know what costs my lungs.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I don't know that's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
And and those are just I feel like, even like
basic supplies, this isn't even taking into account like oil
paints or some of the other like more traditional like
for example, if you're like sculpting, I feel like there's
a whole nother uh set of things like if you're
doing like sanding and that sort of things. So, yeah,
just be aware if you're an artist in working with
(06:10):
certain mediums that uh that you know there there might
be risks involved in terms of.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Like no, that's definitely definitely true. You gotta you have
to be aware of what you're using, what you're working with.
It's it's an important question to ask, and you know,
how are you going to do it?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Right? Yeah? How are you going to do it? What
are you going to use to do it?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Sometimes the toxic materials are necessary sometimes.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
That's sharpie, but it's sharpie. They're non toxic now or
were they ever toxic?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
That's a good question.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I I mean, like I even if they are non
toxic now, which I doubt, I don't know, but they
do have an extremely strong scent to them.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
It's a it's a very distinctive smell.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Like do you like it?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
I don't think I've ever said to myself, man, I
you know, let me let me light this candle.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And I really wish it was sharpie scentered.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
So I looked it up, right, and it says some
sharpies are non toxic, so some some which colors?
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Man which colors? Which? Okay?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And certified by the Arts and Creative Marker Institute. So wait,
are the toxic ones certified as well? I don't understand
how this works. If if if you have an institute
that certifies a certain type of marker based on toxicity,
how do the.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Other ones get through?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
What's the point of the agency if toxic markers get like?
Speaker 4 (07:38):
What's the point? Okay? Whoever?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Sharpie does not recommend using their markers on skin or
on items that may come into contact with food.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Oh, tell that to any kid that ever doodled on
their hands, or tell that.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
To anybody that writes their name under under line bag.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah like what's also?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Exactly? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Interesting? Well it said some so maybe it's not swallowing.
Some permanent marker ink may taste bad, but it's usually
not a cause for concern. Sharpie does not recommend using
their markers on skin. How many people have written on
my skin? Like when you go to an event.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Or what.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
The marker could permit? Skin or enter the body through
broken skin. So it's called a CMI. So I guess
look for the a CMI CeAl means that marker has
been tested for inhalation and ingestion, but not for absorption
into the bloodstream. Okay, okay, well there you go. I
(08:43):
mean I said the ACMI stuff is safe for children.
Some sharpies a CMI certified apparently some, so be aware
some All right, sorry the sharpy thing.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
I really had to kind of dive into.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Sense because I'm still a regular sharpie user at conventions too.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Here we are. I use paint markers.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Sometimes paint markers get a nice black, like you can
get a solid black like that black that you get
down the crazy LCD. But you know, a nice TV screen,
But that is literally.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
Oil, Like I'm talking. I used the oil ones. Yeah,
so that's just like that's just trouble. I'm literally just
coloring the background with dead dinosaurs.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I feel like I've like looked up, like you know,
like when we're at a convention and like I've like
looked up and like over because I can tell you're
using them because.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Oh yeah, the smell is just h yeah, it's it's
it's awful for sure.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Make you feel like an artist, like you're strong.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
So and and I mean these are just I feel
like three of maybe like the most common like quote unquote,
like art injuries. I mean there's there's there's a whole
bunch you know, out there as well. I think that
like tendonitis is like another common one also too. It
depends on what you're defining as like artists because uh,
(10:13):
obviously like these are related to maybe like the visual arts,
but I mean you can also be anything from like
a dancer to.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Like a musician.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I know that there's like a series of things that
are like common uh too to them as well, like
especially with like what is it with musicians like repetitive.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Oh like like a like piano players and stuff.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, like yeah, so just like strain on like certain
tendons and everything, because like the repetition of what it
is that they're doing is so it's a lot.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
It's a term for violent player. Violinist.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
That's a good question, or you know, okay, or celloist
is a that's correct, right, Yeah, it's a violinist that
imagine is okay? No, I just asked because I imagine like
the hustling they have to do to play it to perfection.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, the amount of like tenacity that you have to have,
I mean like oh yeah, I mean like we recently
saw performance of like a like a very young lady Yeah,
at like a festival, and she was playing the four
Seasons like the Spring and.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
You might have to explain what the four seasons spring?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, it's it's the it's the one that goes.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Yeah my.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
My, yeah, rendition and it is violentist.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Yeah, okay, fantastic, yeah yeah, but yeah, she was very young,
but yeah, the the tenacity at which she played was
it was really fascinating to see somebody so young play.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
In that way.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So and while this is a slight off topic thing,
one thing she did that was impressive is she messed
up one or two times during it and she did
not start like she she just kept going and then
she you know, she improved that. It was it was
really it was really cool to say because just you know,
like in that feel like I can just say just
(12:18):
you know, as a creative, like when something messes up,
it can attack you from an emotional standpoint sometimes and
and and for some people that'll freeze. So to see
a child being able to just push your and said no,
I'm going to finish this. I'm here to finish this.
It was impressive. And I mean, if you don't know
that feeling, it's kind of hard to explain it. Maybe
a sports example would be good. If you're if you
(12:40):
play sports or no sports. You know, if if you
just you know, if you mess up, you know you're
screwed up a play or you missed a shot or something,
and you know that that feeling of just it's like
an abject failure, you know what I mean, But not
allowing it to become abject failure and just allowing it
to become a bump in the road impressive, especially for
a child.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
It's impressive for an adult, but for a child is
like remarkable.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well, I think that is like advice that they give performers,
is you know I And I think like that's why
they they have slogans like the show must go On
sort of thing, is that it's it's literally just better
to keep playing.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Than to like freeze up and just like completely stop it,
like as an option.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
And I mean, like I know for sure that like
when we're in the thick of it, I mentions, uh,
freezing up and you know whatever option yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
And you know, I'm not here saying that yo because
you freeze up something.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
No, it's just that it is. It is impressive.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
It is impressive that this child could could pull this
off so impressively.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Is a lot to learn and seeing.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
That, you know, yeah, yeah, and so uh, I guess
like one of the other things that I wanted to
mention was how can you prevent any of this stuff?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You know, is this is are we all.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Just like doomed to destroy her?
Speaker 3 (13:59):
How these terrible artist industries or like, are there any
progenitive measures that we can take?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
And the good news is that the answer is yes.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
So they recommend that you take frequent breaks, you know,
just like kind of if you're in front of like
a screen as many of us are these days, to
kind of like get up and like do some stretches,
like every like half.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Hour to an hour at least.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
And also they recommend strength training and posture training because
I think, I mean, I can't speak for you, because
I know that it was something that you were always
conscious of growing up, but I know for some of
us artists, we do tend to kind of hunch over
in like Grumlin mode, or just not even be aware.
(14:44):
I think of like when we're in what I guess
I would like to affectionately refer to as like the zone,
you kind of become so hyper focused that you're not
concentrating or like you're aware of your body necessarily in
that way. So it's like really easy to like hunch
over or be in a position that isn't like the
(15:04):
best for your body.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
But like it's it's basically how you get the work done.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
So no, that's a that's a very good point.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I think we should go into like or not not now,
but in terms of regimens instead of just staying in
shape as being artists. Because that's a very good point
about the posture thing, Like I that was just a thing,
you know, that was just encouraged from a young age.
I guess I listened to that as opposed to the
corn thing. So I guess, thanks Mama, good trade off.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Yeah right, yeah, I guess it.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Did end up being a good trade off because I'm
fine with the corn and I don't have back problems,
Like I know a lot of people half my age
and my age on further like it it's just back
problems that's all I ever hear them talking about.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
And this is not me like say no, no, na, no,
it's not that.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
It's more like I kept expecting them, but it but
you know, it helps that the posture situation though, the
stepping away from the computer not just it doesn't just
help for your hands and and whatnot your eyes, because
I can say that's another injury that I've definitely suffered
because screen based stuff. Yes, like where you know that
(16:14):
thing where your eyes just you're just done. Yeah that
And because you know, you're you're a traditional person, so
you know, luckily, I mean you still have the same thing,
but luckily you don't work as digitally as much as
I do. So you know, I definitely have the you
know this felt I'm feeling right now actually the effects
(16:36):
of screen based you know, vocation. So you know, I'm
like my eyes, I'm not as good with the with
the reading up close anymore. You know, I have to
wear my glasses. I mean I can still read up close,
but it's just more comfortable with the glasses. I can
still see from afar, but it's just more comfortable with
(16:57):
the glasses. Sometimes it's best not to strain.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
And if I don't. I don't if I don't have
my glasses on me, like an old man, I'll ask
what i'd say on the menu? Two parties for what?
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Why?
Speaker 4 (17:13):
How can patty go up so much?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
You can sell a partty for three dollars three dollars
for a.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Party that's not even a cocoa bread.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I sent the five a cocoa bread.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Seriously, and then and then I wish that I didn't
ask her. But the good thing is that at least
I can't see it anymore, so I don't have to
be disappointed.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
If I don't look at it, then it doesn't exist. Right,
It's not how the world works, right, right? Exactly?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Do you do you use blue light glasses at all?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I do. I have some. I've gone through them. The
problem is they get, like I guess, maybe I need
some high end ones. They get that weird film on
them sometimes and then I don't know what it is,
like a smudge or whatever it is, and then they're
they're a little bit foggy. Okay, eventually this age, I
guess the plastic ages or whatever, I do like them.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
I do look cool in them, So you know, I'm
just saying, so, hey, you know, leg.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Glasses though they do they do help. Though they do
help with the exhaustion. They do help just when when
it gets to that point where eyes are tired too.
It's kind of like a nice little transition away from
you know, because I'll just wear them when I leave
the computer as well, just to kind of give my
eyes a little bit of time, and then I'll take
them off.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yeah, and I mean just going back to the posture
training as well. I think that like for me personally,
I had absolutely no idea just how much I guess,
like daily, I don't know if it's like stress or
strain or tension was in like my general like shoulder
neck area until I think it was maybe like two
(19:00):
years ago one of my good friends Soran, did uh
the cupping the cupping process on me, and I became very,
like very I became much more aware of my posture
after that, because you know, whenever I would find myself
like leaning forward or just like being kind of uh
(19:22):
in in probably like a posture that was not like
good for me in that way, I would find myself
like suddenly like straightening up and like leaning back and
like trying to like throw my shoulders back to just
like correct myself.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
So I definitely became more aware of that.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
And I think, like that's probably like a big part
of artists like posture, is that if like they are
having problems now, it's maybe like a lack of like
awareness in that way, because I don't think I was
aware of myself in that way before that.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I think I don't think that my posture was bad
per se.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, but I don't think I was aware in the
same way because I know that definitely, like when I
get into like a drawing or like something like I
do this thing where like I tend to put my
face like really close to the like the piece that
I'm working on and like, and that's like something that
I think I became more aware of like after that.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
What's interesting is the glasses helped me with that, the
new glasses I got because I maybe I totally this
I don't remember, but before I got the reading glasses
last the previous year, there were times that shows where
I was just seeing double because I was just like
working so hard. I was so I was so tired,
(20:37):
so it was a struggle to focus.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Yeah you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
But with the glasses, I can you know what I mean.
Mind you, I try not to push it too much
because obviously if you're if you're seeing double, that means
you're tired, right, Yeah, so you shouldn't.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
That's also another thing. Don't push yourself too much.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
You know, pay attention to your body, just like with exercise,
to see anything, like, pay attention to the signs, like
if you have that deadline, then maybe you shouldn't have
been procrastinated, you know, you know it's like yeah, sure,
but you know, you know, just just just pay attention
to those things. You should be aware of your limits,
even if you're going to push them, be aware of
(21:16):
them so you know just how far you can or
are willing to, you know, go out on a limb.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Yeah, definitely, I mean I think that like, uh, I
think it's it's about like it's it's fine tuning your
craft to a point where like you are aware of
your like capabilities, but I guess also aware of your
limitations exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Like I mean, we'll start touching on that in future episodes,
like you know, when you can't sleep, when inspiration hits,
what to do off that kind of stuff. It's it's
it's all kind of related and are their own little
art injuries in certain ways. Lack of sleep, that's a
that's definitely a common one among various artists. I won't
say all I mean, but yeah, inspiration can hit. Inspiration
(22:03):
can hit like an injury, sometimes.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Like a car. Yeah, it's hard to ignore. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
You can listen to us on all podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You can find us at paper Lab Studios on Instagram
or payperlab studios dot com, or just drop us a
line at design at paper lab studios dot com.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
And support us on Patreon at paper Lab Studios. Thank
you for listening to paper.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
La podcast a Mango Musica. Turn that music up.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Bound to fill flound.
Hi, I'm Nicki McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer,
and traditional artist.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrator, storyteller and digital artists.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You're listening to Paper podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
You hear that music?
Speaker 5 (00:24):
She stole it off the internet. Just kidding. It's spicy
beats b E E T S and he hates beats.
Let's check you out that SoundCloud.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
So on our last podcast, we were talking about art
injuries and how you can kind of show your badge
honor of being an artist.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Physical oh gosh, in tears.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
So yeah, so we just wanted to continue that and
one of the things that I wanted to talk about
and you may or may not have experience with, but
it's that artists can be exposed to toxic materials and
so this can cause anything from allergies to unfortunately cancer.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, I'm not encouragings were your hepa masks?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
So, I will definitely say I have had a few
uh incidences with the all sorts of mediums. I feel
like the first distinct one that I can remember, I
guess even as a kid in middle school was we
got introduced to because I went to an art magnet school,
we got introduced to the technique of stippling, which is
(01:58):
also known as pointillism in in fine art. And that's
basically like where the artist creates a series of dots
to create a shaded object.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
And it's it's extremely tedious, but the.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Final result is, yeah, the final result is there's there's
nothing like it. It's it's it's a very distinct.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yes, Mark Marazo.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
Does do that.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
And and so we're in middle school, and the medium
that we learned to do this technique with was sharpie markers.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
So you can.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Imagine like what something what size point it varied? We had,
We had the two types.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
We had like the extremely like fine point and then
just kind of like the typical sort of like regular
Well yeah, I mean it was but like it was
encouraged to use like a variation of the markers so
that it wasn't just you know, the thick point the
entire time.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Boys.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, but but yeah, so you can imagine twenty plus
kids all sitting around doing this stippling technique with a
bunch of sharpies. Yeah, no, we we definitely had to
step outside oft of stone for a little bit because
that was a doozy in terms of sharpie sharpie fumes.
(03:22):
For sure, you're like a hippie commune, but pretty much Yeah,
I like I still question some of that till like
this day.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
But I mean we made some really great work.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Did you kids end up talking about philosophy?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, there was.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Despite it being a black and white drawing, there were
colors everywhere.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Yeah right, Yeah, knew how to just writen up the place.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And I'd say like another distinctive experience was definitely in
high school we worked with a lot of charcoal, so
charcoal pencils and just like charcoal like pieces to do
everything from still life to figure drawings. And so once again,
(04:11):
imagine like twenty to thirty kids all sitting around on
like on horses. The artists the horse like it. It's
a wooden bench. It's a wooden bench, can google, yeah,
And artists the game for them are drawing horses. And
so we're just sitting there and and we'd finish our
(04:32):
drawings and you know, we'd be there for like an
hour or two, and we would all go to the
bathroom and just snort out these like.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Thick our children smart drugs.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Just until like like tissue or napkins or whatever, and
our snout would just be full of the charcoal.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Dead because I had asthma and all that.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Like. Man, So yeah, find art training, it'll uh prepare
you for.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
The real world.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I mean that was like my teens, so anywhere between
like fourteen fifteen.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Okay, so I imagine, okay, this is interesting. So was
the charcoal by like it wasn't toxic or anything like what?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I don't know, it's hard to say.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
I guess I find that it's.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Not really something that I think. You know, it's like
you think, like.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Oh, well, you know this amazing artwork came out of that,
and you know, I can't argue with that because we
were It's true, we were doing these like you know,
we would do these like six foot tall by like
three foot long like charcoal drawings, and they were magnificent.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
But you know what costs my lungs.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I don't know that's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
And and those are just I feel like, even like
basic supplies, this isn't even taking into account like oil
paints or some of the other like more traditional like
for example, if you're like sculpting, I feel like there's
a whole nother uh set of things like if you're
doing like sanding and that sort of things. So, yeah,
just be aware if you're an artist in working with
(06:10):
certain mediums that uh that you know there there might
be risks involved in terms of.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Like no, that's definitely definitely true. You gotta you have
to be aware of what you're using, what you're working with.
It's it's an important question to ask, and you know,
how are you going to do it?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Right? Yeah? How are you going to do it? What
are you going to use to do it?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Sometimes the toxic materials are necessary sometimes.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
That's sharpie, but it's sharpie. They're non toxic now or
were they ever toxic?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
That's a good question.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I I mean, like I even if they are non
toxic now, which I doubt, I don't know, but they
do have an extremely strong scent to them.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
It's a it's a very distinctive smell.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Like do you like it?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
I don't think I've ever said to myself, man, I
you know, let me let me light this candle.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And I really wish it was sharpie scentered.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
So I looked it up, right, and it says some
sharpies are non toxic, so some some which colors?
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Man which colors? Which? Okay?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And certified by the Arts and Creative Marker Institute. So wait,
are the toxic ones certified as well? I don't understand
how this works. If if if you have an institute
that certifies a certain type of marker based on toxicity,
how do the.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Other ones get through?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
What's the point of the agency if toxic markers get like?
Speaker 4 (07:38):
What's the point? Okay? Whoever?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Sharpie does not recommend using their markers on skin or
on items that may come into contact with food.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Oh, tell that to any kid that ever doodled on
their hands, or tell that.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
To anybody that writes their name under under line bag.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah like what's also?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Exactly? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Interesting? Well it said some so maybe it's not swallowing.
Some permanent marker ink may taste bad, but it's usually
not a cause for concern. Sharpie does not recommend using
their markers on skin. How many people have written on
my skin? Like when you go to an event.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Or what.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
The marker could permit? Skin or enter the body through
broken skin. So it's called a CMI. So I guess
look for the a CMI CeAl means that marker has
been tested for inhalation and ingestion, but not for absorption
into the bloodstream. Okay, okay, well there you go. I
(08:43):
mean I said the ACMI stuff is safe for children.
Some sharpies a CMI certified apparently some, so be aware
some All right, sorry the sharpy thing.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
I really had to kind of dive into.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Sense because I'm still a regular sharpie user at conventions too.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Here we are. I use paint markers.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Sometimes paint markers get a nice black, like you can
get a solid black like that black that you get
down the crazy LCD. But you know, a nice TV screen,
But that is literally.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
Oil, Like I'm talking. I used the oil ones. Yeah,
so that's just like that's just trouble. I'm literally just
coloring the background with dead dinosaurs.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I feel like I've like looked up, like you know,
like when we're at a convention and like I've like
looked up and like over because I can tell you're
using them because.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Oh yeah, the smell is just h yeah, it's it's
it's awful for sure.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Make you feel like an artist, like you're strong.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
So and and I mean these are just I feel
like three of maybe like the most common like quote unquote,
like art injuries. I mean there's there's there's a whole
bunch you know, out there as well. I think that
like tendonitis is like another common one also too. It
depends on what you're defining as like artists because uh,
(10:13):
obviously like these are related to maybe like the visual arts,
but I mean you can also be anything from like
a dancer to.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Like a musician.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I know that there's like a series of things that
are like common uh too to them as well, like
especially with like what is it with musicians like repetitive.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Oh like like a like piano players and stuff.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Yeah, like yeah, so just like strain on like certain
tendons and everything, because like the repetition of what it
is that they're doing is so it's a lot.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
It's a term for violent player. Violinist.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
That's a good question, or you know, okay, or celloist
is a that's correct, right, Yeah, it's a violinist that
imagine is okay? No, I just asked because I imagine like
the hustling they have to do to play it to perfection.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, the amount of like tenacity that you have to have,
I mean like oh yeah, I mean like we recently
saw performance of like a like a very young lady Yeah,
at like a festival, and she was playing the four
Seasons like the Spring and.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
You might have to explain what the four seasons spring?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, it's it's the it's the one that goes.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Yeah my.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
My, yeah, rendition and it is violentist.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Yeah, okay, fantastic, yeah yeah, but yeah, she was very young,
but yeah, the the tenacity at which she played was
it was really fascinating to see somebody so young play.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
In that way.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So and while this is a slight off topic thing,
one thing she did that was impressive is she messed
up one or two times during it and she did
not start like she she just kept going and then
she you know, she improved that. It was it was
really it was really cool to say because just you know,
like in that feel like I can just say just
(12:18):
you know, as a creative, like when something messes up,
it can attack you from an emotional standpoint sometimes and
and and for some people that'll freeze. So to see
a child being able to just push your and said no,
I'm going to finish this. I'm here to finish this.
It was impressive. And I mean, if you don't know
that feeling, it's kind of hard to explain it. Maybe
a sports example would be good. If you're if you
(12:40):
play sports or no sports. You know, if if you
just you know, if you mess up, you know you're
screwed up a play or you missed a shot or something,
and you know that that feeling of just it's like
an abject failure, you know what I mean, But not
allowing it to become abject failure and just allowing it
to become a bump in the road impressive, especially for
a child.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
It's impressive for an adult, but for a child is
like remarkable.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well, I think that is like advice that they give performers,
is you know I And I think like that's why
they they have slogans like the show must go On
sort of thing, is that it's it's literally just better
to keep playing.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Than to like freeze up and just like completely stop it,
like as an option.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
And I mean, like I know for sure that like
when we're in the thick of it, I mentions, uh,
freezing up and you know whatever option yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
And you know, I'm not here saying that yo because
you freeze up something.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
No, it's just that it is. It is impressive.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
It is impressive that this child could could pull this
off so impressively.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Is a lot to learn and seeing.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
That, you know, yeah, yeah, and so uh, I guess
like one of the other things that I wanted to
mention was how can you prevent any of this stuff?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You know, is this is are we all.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Just like doomed to destroy her?
Speaker 3 (13:59):
How these terrible artist industries or like, are there any
progenitive measures that we can take?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
And the good news is that the answer is yes.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
So they recommend that you take frequent breaks, you know,
just like kind of if you're in front of like
a screen as many of us are these days, to
kind of like get up and like do some stretches,
like every like half.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Hour to an hour at least.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
And also they recommend strength training and posture training because
I think, I mean, I can't speak for you, because
I know that it was something that you were always
conscious of growing up, but I know for some of
us artists, we do tend to kind of hunch over
in like Grumlin mode, or just not even be aware.
(14:44):
I think of like when we're in what I guess
I would like to affectionately refer to as like the zone,
you kind of become so hyper focused that you're not
concentrating or like you're aware of your body necessarily in
that way. So it's like really easy to like hunch
over or be in a position that isn't like the
(15:04):
best for your body.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
But like it's it's basically how you get the work done.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
So no, that's a that's a very good point.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I think we should go into like or not not now,
but in terms of regimens instead of just staying in
shape as being artists. Because that's a very good point
about the posture thing, Like I that was just a thing,
you know, that was just encouraged from a young age.
I guess I listened to that as opposed to the
corn thing. So I guess, thanks Mama, good trade off.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Yeah right, yeah, I guess it.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Did end up being a good trade off because I'm
fine with the corn and I don't have back problems,
Like I know a lot of people half my age
and my age on further like it it's just back
problems that's all I ever hear them talking about.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
And this is not me like say no, no, na, no,
it's not that.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
It's more like I kept expecting them, but it but
you know, it helps that the posture situation though, the
stepping away from the computer not just it doesn't just
help for your hands and and whatnot your eyes, because
I can say that's another injury that I've definitely suffered
because screen based stuff. Yes, like where you know that
(16:14):
thing where your eyes just you're just done. Yeah that
And because you know, you're you're a traditional person, so
you know, luckily, I mean you still have the same thing,
but luckily you don't work as digitally as much as
I do. So you know, I definitely have the you
know this felt I'm feeling right now actually the effects
(16:36):
of screen based you know, vocation. So you know, I'm
like my eyes, I'm not as good with the with
the reading up close anymore. You know, I have to
wear my glasses. I mean I can still read up close,
but it's just more comfortable with the glasses. I can
still see from afar, but it's just more comfortable with
(16:57):
the glasses. Sometimes it's best not to strain.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
And if I don't. I don't if I don't have
my glasses on me, like an old man, I'll ask
what i'd say on the menu? Two parties for what?
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Why?
Speaker 4 (17:13):
How can patty go up so much?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
You can sell a partty for three dollars three dollars
for a.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Party that's not even a cocoa bread.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I sent the five a cocoa bread.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Seriously, and then and then I wish that I didn't
ask her. But the good thing is that at least
I can't see it anymore, so I don't have to
be disappointed.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
If I don't look at it, then it doesn't exist. Right,
It's not how the world works, right, right? Exactly?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Do you do you use blue light glasses at all?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I do. I have some. I've gone through them. The
problem is they get, like I guess, maybe I need
some high end ones. They get that weird film on
them sometimes and then I don't know what it is,
like a smudge or whatever it is, and then they're
they're a little bit foggy. Okay, eventually this age, I
guess the plastic ages or whatever, I do like them.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
I do look cool in them, So you know, I'm
just saying, so, hey, you know, leg.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Glasses though they do they do help. Though they do
help with the exhaustion. They do help just when when
it gets to that point where eyes are tired too.
It's kind of like a nice little transition away from
you know, because I'll just wear them when I leave
the computer as well, just to kind of give my
eyes a little bit of time, and then I'll take
them off.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yeah, and I mean just going back to the posture
training as well. I think that like for me personally,
I had absolutely no idea just how much I guess,
like daily, I don't know if it's like stress or
strain or tension was in like my general like shoulder
neck area until I think it was maybe like two
(19:00):
years ago one of my good friends Soran, did uh
the cupping the cupping process on me, and I became very,
like very I became much more aware of my posture
after that, because you know, whenever I would find myself
like leaning forward or just like being kind of uh
(19:22):
in in probably like a posture that was not like
good for me in that way, I would find myself
like suddenly like straightening up and like leaning back and
like trying to like throw my shoulders back to just
like correct myself.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
So I definitely became more aware of that.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
And I think, like that's probably like a big part
of artists like posture, is that if like they are
having problems now, it's maybe like a lack of like
awareness in that way, because I don't think I was
aware of myself in that way before that.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I think I don't think that my posture was bad
per se.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, but I don't think I was aware in the
same way because I know that definitely, like when I
get into like a drawing or like something like I
do this thing where like I tend to put my
face like really close to the like the piece that
I'm working on and like, and that's like something that
I think I became more aware of like after that.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
What's interesting is the glasses helped me with that, the
new glasses I got because I maybe I totally this
I don't remember, but before I got the reading glasses
last the previous year, there were times that shows where
I was just seeing double because I was just like
working so hard. I was so I was so tired,
(20:37):
so it was a struggle to focus.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Yeah you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
But with the glasses, I can you know what I mean.
Mind you, I try not to push it too much
because obviously if you're if you're seeing double, that means
you're tired, right, Yeah, so you shouldn't.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
That's also another thing. Don't push yourself too much.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
You know, pay attention to your body, just like with exercise,
to see anything, like, pay attention to the signs, like
if you have that deadline, then maybe you shouldn't have
been procrastinated, you know, you know it's like yeah, sure,
but you know, you know, just just just pay attention
to those things. You should be aware of your limits,
even if you're going to push them, be aware of
(21:16):
them so you know just how far you can or
are willing to, you know, go out on a limb.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Yeah, definitely, I mean I think that like, uh, I
think it's it's about like it's it's fine tuning your
craft to a point where like you are aware of
your like capabilities, but I guess also aware of your
limitations exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Like I mean, we'll start touching on that in future episodes,
like you know, when you can't sleep, when inspiration hits,
what to do off that kind of stuff. It's it's
it's all kind of related and are their own little
art injuries in certain ways. Lack of sleep, that's a
that's definitely a common one among various artists. I won't
say all I mean, but yeah, inspiration can hit. Inspiration
(22:03):
can hit like an injury, sometimes.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Like a car. Yeah, it's hard to ignore. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
You can listen to us on all podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You can find us at paper Lab Studios on Instagram
or payperlab studios dot com, or just drop us a
line at design at paper lab studios dot com.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
And support us on Patreon at paper Lab Studios. Thank
you for listening to paper.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
La podcast a Mango Musica. Turn that music up.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Bound to fill flound.
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