Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Nicky McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer,
and traditional artist.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrator, storyteller and digital artists.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You're listening to Paper podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You hear that music, she stole it off the internet.
Just kidding. It's spicy beats b E E T S
and he hates beats. Let's check you out that SoundCloud.
(00:45):
So this week we kind of want to talk about
something that was mentioned lightly in the previous episode, fandoms. Right, Yeah,
you know, we're all fans of something, even if we say, oh,
we're not like into this and network, there's something we're
interested in, right, and what we've noticed, especially since we
(01:07):
work in this space where fandom is kind of.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
The driving force.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, you know, because we traveled as you know, if
you listen to the show and this is your first
episode and you didn't listen to the intro, then yeah,
we travel to pop culture conventions or festivals or just
little events or and whatnot and we we we sell
custom art. You know, people come to us, they get commissions,
(01:32):
whether it's of their favorite characters or them as their
favorite characters or whatever, and we draw that for them
or we have pre made ones that they can purchase
from us. So fandom is kind of the core of
our business, right. But what's fascinating is, you know, are
(01:53):
like I interact with fandom in a very different way
than say, a lot of people might. Doesn't my interaction
any better or worse, It's just it's very different. I
don't really connect in the same way. Like, there are
things I really adore, but I I probably wouldn't necessarily
wear a shirt or buy merchandise. I'll see it and say, oh,
(02:15):
that's cool, I buy it for you. Yeah, it's like
I will not like I have a Superman shirt.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, you don't go out of your way to.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, I never would. I don't feel the urge. I
would buy something if I'm trying to support something, if
that if that makes sense, like you know, if if
it's like maybe I don't want to say struggling, that's
not the right word, but if it's the creator that
needs to support or whatever, you know, and I'm aware
(02:45):
then I'll go to my way to support it. But
it's not like I want to wear a thing or
put a thing up or whatnot. You're a little different, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I mean I'm I'm a merchandise sucker. I yeah, I
buy way too many, like chrash keys and stuff like that.
But I mean, like also too. It's because a lot
of the times with some of the like the manga
and anime I watch, I mean I used to collect
like the books and the DVDs and stuff, and then
(03:16):
like it eventually just became a space issue. So for
me these days, like if it's not like a wearable
or something you know, for example, like a pin or
a T shirt or something like that or hat, it's
kind of difficult for me to uh sort of what
you might call it, uh yeah, well, like to validate
(03:39):
the purchase because it's like it's just gonna end up
kind of being on a shelf for example for me.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Wait, okay, so what's interesting about this is there's a
revelation that's occurred while you know, I'm in this show,
and that's why we do this show, guys. For for epiphanies.
You go right getting merch and all that stuff, but
you would not know the name. You won't know if
the person's even alive. It's the person that created it.
(04:07):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
I'm super I'm like generally super disconnected from the creator
of whatever it is that I'm like obsessing over at
the moment.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I don't know if it's like a I guess maybe.
I guess having been in the spotlight for like a
hot minute and like having to interact with fans and
stuff like that, I just discovered that it wasn't really
my cup of tea, and so I guess I'm just
like really sensitive to people's like private lives and personal
lives in that way, or I mean arguably too. Like
(04:43):
if I'm just being honest, I don't really care. Like
I'm like if that person has like, you know, ten
babies and whatever else, like it's just not like it's
not a driving force for me. Like if if that's
how like they create their work, then like that's cool,
But like I'm more interested, I guess in the work itself.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
That's It's interesting because I remember on a ride like
some time back, we're with our cousin and Avici came
up and then your phone out in the car on
the ride a Vici's dead. Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
It was like, I don't know what was more sad
the fact that I had to find out they were
like my cousin telling me that he like died like
a few years ago, or yeah, the fact that he
was actually dead.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
She's a musician or was a musician by.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
The way, yeah, really great edim musician. But yeah, that
was that was something.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, yeah, because the conversation involved you saying something very
present tense about Avic and a concert or something, and
then they were like you.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I will arguably say though that if the person has
if the person is still alive and they have like
committed some sort of crime, I'm or you know, just
some general like no no for society. I do become
conscious of that, and I try not to support their
work as a result, if it's something that goes against
(06:12):
like my moral values and core.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Well so, okay, so we said all that, And what's
interesting about that is I don't, like, like, I'm not
the merch person, but I will know a lot about
the creats are funny enough, that's true, but mind you
not in But I guess there is that barrier though,
like I don't really care about the personal life. If
(06:36):
it comes up in when I'm researching, then that's that's.
That's that. But I don't know like the names of
directors and like oh they did this and they started
here and they went to this school. More for me,
it's more research honestly, in terms of kind of see,
kind of get a bit of the texture of who
this person is, what might have shaped them, you know,
what might influence their ideas, want not see if there's
(06:59):
anything from that I can learn or you know, I
can garner any wisdom. But it's funny we have these
totally different approaches, but I think we end up at
the same point where it's like we're just interested in
what's being created, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
The work, Yeah, I mean like at the end of
the day, it's like, yeah, my house is full of
way too many trashkeys. But I mean at the end
of the day, it's more of like a physical like
sort of almost totem to just be able to hand
over money to the creator because I'm a fan of
their work, and.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
That's a good thing. That's definitely helpful, especially as people
who you know, in our business we need people to
hand money to us to function in the space. You
would think i'd be more on board. Not that I'm
against it, it's just a situation where I have been
(07:54):
known to buy. I bought things from people just because
I'm like, all right, I'm just supporting. I'm not gonna
wear this, or read this or even look at this.
I've done that. I think most people have done that.
I'll do that. But my thing is I just don't
like people try to sell. Like like say, if something's
(08:14):
trying to if something's being sold to me, I'm usually
more I'm less inclined to appreciate it or even be interested,
if that makes sense. Despite being in a sales field,
I don't. I mean, you know how I work, I
don't necessarily sell to people. I'll talk to people and
hopefully I can garner interests. The most sales see I
(08:35):
get is when I'm in a certain mood, and I mean,
you can, you know, chastise me if you want. I
was at a show we're at recently where this this
guy picked up an issue of Sealless. So he picked
up like one issue, and I'm like, bro, because it's
four issues, right, I'm like, bro, you can get recidies
for like, it's a whole series, man, you might as well.
(08:58):
And I put them all in his hand. And I
don't know what was what got over me, but I
was just in a mood. Yeah, and I just didn't care.
That's the thing, Like I guess all night, I was
like half a sociopath for five minutes.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
I have not seen Mervin do a hard cell like that.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, I just don't like doing it. But I didn't
have any feelings toward it. And mind you, I know
the book is good. Like, I'm not selling him trash.
It's one thing if you're selling somebody a lemon. No,
that kid, and I think i'd seen him before and
I sold stuff to him before.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, he looked familiar.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, but it was under different circumstances. He just picked
up what he wanted and I got it. But in
that kid, I was just I just I don't know,
the spirit was talking to me. And yeah, and here's
the thing, I have every confidence he's gonna like the book.
That's that's a funny thing. So I don't know, Like
there's different wavelengths, right, maybe he'll be a fan. You know,
(09:52):
we talk, we're talking about fandoms and our relationships to them,
and I can say I have a similar thing to
you as well. I don't like the idea of people
knowing more about me than I know about them, like
walking into a room and and everybody knowing you know,
oh you know, especially if, like say, you're one of
those posters that post everything. Oh yeah, they had they
(10:13):
have a regular a very regular schedule, you know what
I mean. You know it's like what's up?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Oh yeah, Well, not to cut you off, but you
mentioned earlier like that you're not the typical fan, So
what would you like to find the typical fan as?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Okay, typical fan I mean is well that that's the
thing that's changed back in the day. But when I
was growing up, typical fan, I would have been close
to a typical fan. I like this person's thing, and
I'll buy it when I can, okay, right, or not
buy it, I'll support it because maybe you don't have money.
Just because you don't have money to buy something doesn't
(10:49):
mean you can't support. Support could be evangelizing, you know
what I mean, talking about which I do. I will
praise stuff that I like.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, you you are constantly recommending like whenever people asks
for movies or comics or anything like that, You've you've
always got like a list.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Also, I don't I try to praise and suggest according
to what I think a person might like. Sometimes people
like to suggest stuff to you and it's like, you
didn't take into consideration anything about me. Why do you
think i'd want to take your personal likes exactly? Or
just you know, sometimes just don't suggest it. It's like
a friend that keeps suggesting the Minecraft movie. Oh no,
(11:30):
we tried it, and it's yeah, not for me.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Not not for us. Yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, what were you going to say you first? No, No,
I was just I was just curious what you know,
what you were going to say about that question.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Oh, I mean, like, I guess it's because we do
the shows. But I guess I associate the the typical fan.
I guess just like diving head first into the fandom itself.
So like, so if they have the opportunity to meet
like one of like the voice actors or like one
of the actors or something like, they'll be at like
the signings and like they'll be at the panels and
(12:09):
like that sort of thing. Yeah, whereas like for me personally,
like I'm not really interested in them in that way
personally enough to like you know wait online for like
three hours. Ye, But I mean like, but like conversely,
it's like there's some people where it's like that's something
that's like really important to them. And I know that
(12:31):
like for certain people too, it's like certain characters or
stories and stuff like that like affect them, you know,
really like on like a very personal level. So being
able to like meet somebody that like brought that out
for them is really important to them.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
That's that's fair. And you know a good example of
where we stand is at the shows. We'll you know,
if say we're a guest at a show, we'll be
in the back air right where the green room where
all the guests will be, right and there's I've we've
encountered people that we may have made considered heroes growing
up and whatnot, and it's you know, and it's cool,
(13:10):
it's fine. But I remember having a conversation with a
fellow artist and I think John Carpenter, No, it was
it was John Carpenter was sitting like in the back
and they were like, oh my god, I really want
to say him and and you know, and I'm like, okay,
how come you want to say hi so bad? And
then they spoke about how he shaped their creativity and
all this stuff and blah blah blah and all these movies.
(13:30):
And I'm like, okay, well he's he's over there by
himself and you know, you know, he's just kind of
just staring at the nothing. What what do you plan
to say? And they're like, oh, I want to I
want to just say thank you for everything, blah blah blah.
And I'm like that sounds great. Why wouldn't you know,
why not just go and say that? And it's like yeah,
(13:52):
but I'm like what if. I'm like, but if he's
an a hole, right or whatnot? Okay, then you know,
never to do that again to this guy and whatever
you move on. But if you don't do it now,
you're probably gonna regret it. Me And I said me, personally,
I have no feelings on this. There's nobody really that
(14:12):
that I would necessarily feel like doing that. So maybe
there's one, and I've done that to them already, and
so it's I guess that's why I'm dead inside, But
to just go do it? And she did it and
it was. And guess what, he extended the conversation and
they were over there talking for a while, and she
had she was she had such a wonderful experience. Yeah,
(14:34):
and and and that's the thing that's that's true fandom
right there. And the person in particularly I was speaking about,
I'll bring him up on the show, right it was
Frank Quietly, Like I remember the gentleman that runs you know, conventions,
and he's been on our old show. I'll name him,
(14:56):
you know, uh, Mike Broder. He set me up with
doing an in of you with with Frank Quietly for
and he's an artist combook artist for a panel at
a show. And he even set our boots next to
each other. And so I spent the whole weekend with
Frank Quietly and it was. It was a very pleasant experience,
wonderful human being. It's one of those rare occasions where
(15:19):
you meet, uh, somebody that's inspired your work or or here.
It might be a bit dramatic, but but you know
somebody that's influential in in you know, in your life
that you've never met and you meet for the first
time and it went swimmingly. Excellent guy excellent family, wonderful people,
and you know, I said the things I had to
(15:40):
say where it's like, you know, your work is excellent,
it's influenced me. I got to even, you know, speak
to him on stage. You probably can find a video
on YouTube somewhere. Mervin McCoy Frank Quietly was. It was
at super Con. I think it's probably super Con some
years ago, and and that was that was my biggest
fandom experience, and it was it was good. The first
(16:03):
time I met Frank Quietly though, it was it was
funny because he was once more gracious, and that was
many years before that. But it was a much simpler,
straightforward to the point situation because I was much more
like young and just green. And yeah, I was meeting
these guys, you know, and getting signatures. You know, I
(16:24):
didn't really want the signatures, because that's another thing with fandoms.
It's like getting stuff sign and getting pictures with people
and whatnot, which no judgment is just that's not my
and that's not your thing either.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, it's it's not my style. Like if I like
happened to get a picture, it'd be great, but I'm
not gonna once again like go out of my way
per se to do the do the line thing.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, but even without the line, I just don't like
I'll get it for someone. Yeah. Yeah, somebody tried to
bar to that. Remember that the stuff. Yeah, he was like, oh,
can I get a commission if I give you a
sign photo of myself? I used to be I'm not
gonna call them out, but I used to be a
certain actor's stunt double, and I'm like, okay, I mean
even if you were that actor, I wouldn't care. But
(17:10):
I don't like It's signatures mean absolutely nothing to me. Yes,
you can make a ton of money on them, but
it's like people ask for a signature all the time,
and I'm like, okay, good luck. No, I'm not even
trying to be condescending, as condescending as that sounded, but
it's like okay, okay, yeah, and certain things, you know,
(17:30):
we'll charge for it because you know whatever. That's that's
a whole other conversation. But yeah, I don't know. It's
just I like just enjoying the moment. If I can
talk to the person, you know, hang out with them,
that's probably more valuable to me then looking at I
(17:50):
learned something from them at least.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah. Yeah, I would say, like the time, it's it's
more precious and less tangible quality time.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
My love language. Oh yes, I mean what's your overall
take on all this?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
I mean I think that, like, fandoms are incredibly important
because I think that they allow uh, you know, properties
as a whole to move forward, and artists to I
feel like, you know, for as many like quote unquote
like negatives as there could be over like obsessive fans
or that sort of thing, I think that there's also
like a lot of positives as well, uh in letting
(18:31):
like the artists, whether they're actors or musicians or writers
or whoever, really know that their work is loved and
you know that people want to see more of it.
I mean, like, just as an add on, I think
that one of the things that kind of differentiates us
from I guess the typical fan is that our fandoms
have changed over time. I think that, like, you know,
(18:54):
like as we grow older, it's like we've always been
open to like watching and reading new things, and so
like we'll become fans of that. So like I would
say that like our current sort of quote unquote fandoms
are different from you know, when we were kids.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I hear that I have a two prome tack. I
agree with that. I do think, you know, the fandom
is helpful in that respect everything you just said, but
I'll add this, maybe I'll add this and then end
with a more positive one. But there's also the problem of,
(19:30):
like say, too much of it, soom fans can sometimes
build almost like a wall or like a bubble, and
then they don't experience other things, so they get you
know it, can you end up living in this world
of just this one fantom where there's just just this
one type of thing, So then your world becomes smaller
(19:50):
as opposed to becoming bigger. You're not experiencing more and
new things because this is the end all be all.
But that's one aspect, like anything, too much of anything
is all is bad for you, right And as a result,
you know, like even say, no, what's cool is you
know they're fans doing like they're fans of things that
are doing the things that they were fans of. You know,
(20:12):
there's a perfect example is there's fans of comics that
are writing comics now. And that's a two pronged thing
as well. It's cool that you're living a dream. But
it's also the trick of it almost becomes entropic in
some way, where it's it's it's a rubber ros right,
it's a snake eating its own tail. And then the
ideas in some ways, as much as you might get
(20:34):
some cool ideas from when somebody was a kid, it
still ends up in just one small little bubble and
it starts just you know, I mean, that's not that's
kind of the opposite of entropy, but you get my point.
But then it's just starts either it gets bigger and
it's just too the ideas are too big. They don't
call us anymore because it's just it's just the same
thing over and over again, and that can only last
(20:57):
for so long. Yeah, But the cool part of it is,
going back to that first statement, is that it's pretty
cool to live your dream, right, Like it's pretty cool
to be a fan of this thing, and then you
get that chance. It's just a matter of just trying
to navigate it a little bit, navigate it wisely enough
(21:18):
so you're not treading the same ground over and over again,
or just try and do things break out that I
find them.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
You can listen to us on all podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
You can find us at payper Lab Studios on Instagram
or payperlab studios dot com, or just drop us a
line at design at paper lab studios dot.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Com and support us on Patreon at paper lab Studios.
Thank you for listening to paper.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Lab podcast A Mango Musica Turn That Music Up.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Fund fenced
Speaker 2 (23:03):
In too,
Hi, I'm Nicky McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer,
and traditional artist.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrator, storyteller and digital artists.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You're listening to Paper podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You hear that music, she stole it off the internet.
Just kidding. It's spicy beats b E E T S
and he hates beats. Let's check you out that SoundCloud.
(00:45):
So this week we kind of want to talk about
something that was mentioned lightly in the previous episode, fandoms. Right, Yeah,
you know, we're all fans of something, even if we say, oh,
we're not like into this and network, there's something we're
interested in, right, and what we've noticed, especially since we
(01:07):
work in this space where fandom is kind of.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
The driving force.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, you know, because we traveled as you know, if
you listen to the show and this is your first
episode and you didn't listen to the intro, then yeah,
we travel to pop culture conventions or festivals or just
little events or and whatnot and we we we sell
custom art. You know, people come to us, they get commissions,
(01:32):
whether it's of their favorite characters or them as their
favorite characters or whatever, and we draw that for them
or we have pre made ones that they can purchase
from us. So fandom is kind of the core of
our business, right. But what's fascinating is, you know, are
(01:53):
like I interact with fandom in a very different way
than say, a lot of people might. Doesn't my interaction
any better or worse, It's just it's very different. I
don't really connect in the same way. Like, there are
things I really adore, but I I probably wouldn't necessarily
wear a shirt or buy merchandise. I'll see it and say, oh,
(02:15):
that's cool, I buy it for you. Yeah, it's like
I will not like I have a Superman shirt.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, you don't go out of your way to.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, I never would. I don't feel the urge. I
would buy something if I'm trying to support something, if
that if that makes sense, like you know, if if
it's like maybe I don't want to say struggling, that's
not the right word, but if it's the creator that
needs to support or whatever, you know, and I'm aware
(02:45):
then I'll go to my way to support it. But
it's not like I want to wear a thing or
put a thing up or whatnot. You're a little different, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I mean I'm I'm a merchandise sucker. I yeah, I
buy way too many, like chrash keys and stuff like that.
But I mean, like also too. It's because a lot
of the times with some of the like the manga
and anime I watch, I mean I used to collect
like the books and the DVDs and stuff, and then
(03:16):
like it eventually just became a space issue. So for
me these days, like if it's not like a wearable
or something you know, for example, like a pin or
a T shirt or something like that or hat, it's
kind of difficult for me to uh sort of what
you might call it, uh yeah, well, like to validate
(03:39):
the purchase because it's like it's just gonna end up
kind of being on a shelf for example for me.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Wait, okay, so what's interesting about this is there's a
revelation that's occurred while you know, I'm in this show,
and that's why we do this show, guys. For for epiphanies.
You go right getting merch and all that stuff, but
you would not know the name. You won't know if
the person's even alive. It's the person that created it.
(04:07):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
I'm super I'm like generally super disconnected from the creator
of whatever it is that I'm like obsessing over at
the moment.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I don't know if it's like a I guess maybe.
I guess having been in the spotlight for like a
hot minute and like having to interact with fans and
stuff like that, I just discovered that it wasn't really
my cup of tea, and so I guess I'm just
like really sensitive to people's like private lives and personal
lives in that way, or I mean arguably too. Like
(04:43):
if I'm just being honest, I don't really care. Like
I'm like if that person has like, you know, ten
babies and whatever else, like it's just not like it's
not a driving force for me. Like if if that's
how like they create their work, then like that's cool,
But like I'm more interested, I guess in the work itself.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
That's It's interesting because I remember on a ride like
some time back, we're with our cousin and Avici came
up and then your phone out in the car on
the ride a Vici's dead. Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
It was like, I don't know what was more sad
the fact that I had to find out they were
like my cousin telling me that he like died like
a few years ago, or yeah, the fact that he
was actually dead.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
She's a musician or was a musician by.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
The way, yeah, really great edim musician. But yeah, that
was that was something.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, yeah, because the conversation involved you saying something very
present tense about Avic and a concert or something, and
then they were like you.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I will arguably say though that if the person has
if the person is still alive and they have like
committed some sort of crime, I'm or you know, just
some general like no no for society. I do become
conscious of that, and I try not to support their
work as a result, if it's something that goes against
(06:12):
like my moral values and core.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Well so, okay, so we said all that, And what's
interesting about that is I don't, like, like, I'm not
the merch person, but I will know a lot about
the creats are funny enough, that's true, but mind you
not in But I guess there is that barrier though,
like I don't really care about the personal life. If
(06:36):
it comes up in when I'm researching, then that's that's.
That's that. But I don't know like the names of
directors and like oh they did this and they started
here and they went to this school. More for me,
it's more research honestly, in terms of kind of see,
kind of get a bit of the texture of who
this person is, what might have shaped them, you know,
what might influence their ideas, want not see if there's
(06:59):
anything from that I can learn or you know, I
can garner any wisdom. But it's funny we have these
totally different approaches, but I think we end up at
the same point where it's like we're just interested in
what's being created, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
The work, Yeah, I mean like at the end of
the day, it's like, yeah, my house is full of
way too many trashkeys. But I mean at the end
of the day, it's more of like a physical like
sort of almost totem to just be able to hand
over money to the creator because I'm a fan of
their work, and.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
That's a good thing. That's definitely helpful, especially as people
who you know, in our business we need people to
hand money to us to function in the space. You
would think i'd be more on board. Not that I'm
against it, it's just a situation where I have been
(07:54):
known to buy. I bought things from people just because
I'm like, all right, I'm just supporting. I'm not gonna
wear this, or read this or even look at this.
I've done that. I think most people have done that.
I'll do that. But my thing is I just don't
like people try to sell. Like like say, if something's
(08:14):
trying to if something's being sold to me, I'm usually
more I'm less inclined to appreciate it or even be interested,
if that makes sense. Despite being in a sales field,
I don't. I mean, you know how I work, I
don't necessarily sell to people. I'll talk to people and
hopefully I can garner interests. The most sales see I
(08:35):
get is when I'm in a certain mood, and I mean,
you can, you know, chastise me if you want. I
was at a show we're at recently where this this
guy picked up an issue of Sealless. So he picked
up like one issue, and I'm like, bro, because it's
four issues, right, I'm like, bro, you can get recidies
for like, it's a whole series, man, you might as well.
(08:58):
And I put them all in his hand. And I
don't know what was what got over me, but I
was just in a mood. Yeah, and I just didn't care.
That's the thing, Like I guess all night, I was
like half a sociopath for five minutes.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
I have not seen Mervin do a hard cell like that.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, I just don't like doing it. But I didn't
have any feelings toward it. And mind you, I know
the book is good. Like, I'm not selling him trash.
It's one thing if you're selling somebody a lemon. No,
that kid, and I think i'd seen him before and
I sold stuff to him before.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, he looked familiar.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, but it was under different circumstances. He just picked
up what he wanted and I got it. But in
that kid, I was just I just I don't know,
the spirit was talking to me. And yeah, and here's
the thing, I have every confidence he's gonna like the book.
That's that's a funny thing. So I don't know, Like
there's different wavelengths, right, maybe he'll be a fan. You know,
(09:52):
we talk, we're talking about fandoms and our relationships to them,
and I can say I have a similar thing to
you as well. I don't like the idea of people
knowing more about me than I know about them, like
walking into a room and and everybody knowing you know,
oh you know, especially if, like say, you're one of
those posters that post everything. Oh yeah, they had they
(10:13):
have a regular a very regular schedule, you know what
I mean. You know it's like what's up?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Oh yeah, Well, not to cut you off, but you
mentioned earlier like that you're not the typical fan, So
what would you like to find the typical fan as?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Okay, typical fan I mean is well that that's the
thing that's changed back in the day. But when I
was growing up, typical fan, I would have been close
to a typical fan. I like this person's thing, and
I'll buy it when I can, okay, right, or not
buy it, I'll support it because maybe you don't have money.
Just because you don't have money to buy something doesn't
(10:49):
mean you can't support. Support could be evangelizing, you know
what I mean, talking about which I do. I will
praise stuff that I like.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, you you are constantly recommending like whenever people asks
for movies or comics or anything like that, You've you've
always got like a list.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Also, I don't I try to praise and suggest according
to what I think a person might like. Sometimes people
like to suggest stuff to you and it's like, you
didn't take into consideration anything about me. Why do you
think i'd want to take your personal likes exactly? Or
just you know, sometimes just don't suggest it. It's like
a friend that keeps suggesting the Minecraft movie. Oh no,
(11:30):
we tried it, and it's yeah, not for me.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Not not for us. Yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, what were you going to say you first? No, No,
I was just I was just curious what you know,
what you were going to say about that question.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Oh, I mean, like, I guess it's because we do
the shows. But I guess I associate the the typical fan.
I guess just like diving head first into the fandom itself.
So like, so if they have the opportunity to meet
like one of like the voice actors or like one
of the actors or something like, they'll be at like
the signings and like they'll be at the panels and
(12:09):
like that sort of thing. Yeah, whereas like for me personally,
like I'm not really interested in them in that way
personally enough to like you know wait online for like
three hours. Ye, But I mean like, but like conversely,
it's like there's some people where it's like that's something
that's like really important to them. And I know that
(12:31):
like for certain people too, it's like certain characters or
stories and stuff like that like affect them, you know,
really like on like a very personal level. So being
able to like meet somebody that like brought that out
for them is really important to them.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
That's that's fair. And you know a good example of
where we stand is at the shows. We'll you know,
if say we're a guest at a show, we'll be
in the back air right where the green room where
all the guests will be, right and there's I've we've
encountered people that we may have made considered heroes growing
up and whatnot, and it's you know, and it's cool,
(13:10):
it's fine. But I remember having a conversation with a
fellow artist and I think John Carpenter, No, it was
it was John Carpenter was sitting like in the back
and they were like, oh my god, I really want
to say him and and you know, and I'm like, okay,
how come you want to say hi so bad? And
then they spoke about how he shaped their creativity and
all this stuff and blah blah blah and all these movies.
(13:30):
And I'm like, okay, well he's he's over there by
himself and you know, you know, he's just kind of
just staring at the nothing. What what do you plan
to say? And they're like, oh, I want to I
want to just say thank you for everything, blah blah blah.
And I'm like that sounds great. Why wouldn't you know,
why not just go and say that? And it's like yeah,
(13:52):
but I'm like what if. I'm like, but if he's
an a hole, right or whatnot? Okay, then you know,
never to do that again to this guy and whatever
you move on. But if you don't do it now,
you're probably gonna regret it. Me And I said me, personally,
I have no feelings on this. There's nobody really that
(14:12):
that I would necessarily feel like doing that. So maybe
there's one, and I've done that to them already, and
so it's I guess that's why I'm dead inside, But
to just go do it? And she did it and
it was. And guess what, he extended the conversation and
they were over there talking for a while, and she
had she was she had such a wonderful experience. Yeah,
(14:34):
and and and that's the thing that's that's true fandom
right there. And the person in particularly I was speaking about,
I'll bring him up on the show, right it was
Frank Quietly, Like I remember the gentleman that runs you know, conventions,
and he's been on our old show. I'll name him,
(14:56):
you know, uh, Mike Broder. He set me up with
doing an in of you with with Frank Quietly for
and he's an artist combook artist for a panel at
a show. And he even set our boots next to
each other. And so I spent the whole weekend with
Frank Quietly and it was. It was a very pleasant experience,
wonderful human being. It's one of those rare occasions where
(15:19):
you meet, uh, somebody that's inspired your work or or here.
It might be a bit dramatic, but but you know
somebody that's influential in in you know, in your life
that you've never met and you meet for the first
time and it went swimmingly. Excellent guy excellent family, wonderful people,
and you know, I said the things I had to
(15:40):
say where it's like, you know, your work is excellent,
it's influenced me. I got to even, you know, speak
to him on stage. You probably can find a video
on YouTube somewhere. Mervin McCoy Frank Quietly was. It was
at super Con. I think it's probably super Con some
years ago, and and that was that was my biggest
fandom experience, and it was it was good. The first
(16:03):
time I met Frank Quietly though, it was it was
funny because he was once more gracious, and that was
many years before that. But it was a much simpler,
straightforward to the point situation because I was much more
like young and just green. And yeah, I was meeting
these guys, you know, and getting signatures. You know, I
(16:24):
didn't really want the signatures, because that's another thing with fandoms.
It's like getting stuff sign and getting pictures with people
and whatnot, which no judgment is just that's not my
and that's not your thing either.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, it's it's not my style. Like if I like
happened to get a picture, it'd be great, but I'm
not gonna once again like go out of my way
per se to do the do the line thing.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, but even without the line, I just don't like
I'll get it for someone. Yeah. Yeah, somebody tried to
bar to that. Remember that the stuff. Yeah, he was like, oh,
can I get a commission if I give you a
sign photo of myself? I used to be I'm not
gonna call them out, but I used to be a
certain actor's stunt double, and I'm like, okay, I mean
even if you were that actor, I wouldn't care. But
(17:10):
I don't like It's signatures mean absolutely nothing to me. Yes,
you can make a ton of money on them, but
it's like people ask for a signature all the time,
and I'm like, okay, good luck. No, I'm not even
trying to be condescending, as condescending as that sounded, but
it's like okay, okay, yeah, and certain things, you know,
(17:30):
we'll charge for it because you know whatever. That's that's
a whole other conversation. But yeah, I don't know. It's
just I like just enjoying the moment. If I can
talk to the person, you know, hang out with them,
that's probably more valuable to me then looking at I
(17:50):
learned something from them at least.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah. Yeah, I would say, like the time, it's it's
more precious and less tangible quality time.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
My love language. Oh yes, I mean what's your overall
take on all this?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
I mean I think that, like, fandoms are incredibly important
because I think that they allow uh, you know, properties
as a whole to move forward, and artists to I
feel like, you know, for as many like quote unquote
like negatives as there could be over like obsessive fans
or that sort of thing, I think that there's also
like a lot of positives as well, uh in letting
(18:31):
like the artists, whether they're actors or musicians or writers
or whoever, really know that their work is loved and
you know that people want to see more of it.
I mean, like, just as an add on, I think
that one of the things that kind of differentiates us
from I guess the typical fan is that our fandoms
have changed over time. I think that, like, you know,
(18:54):
like as we grow older, it's like we've always been
open to like watching and reading new things, and so
like we'll become fans of that. So like I would
say that like our current sort of quote unquote fandoms
are different from you know, when we were kids.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I hear that I have a two prome tack. I
agree with that. I do think, you know, the fandom
is helpful in that respect everything you just said, but
I'll add this, maybe I'll add this and then end
with a more positive one. But there's also the problem of,
(19:30):
like say, too much of it, soom fans can sometimes
build almost like a wall or like a bubble, and
then they don't experience other things, so they get you
know it, can you end up living in this world
of just this one fantom where there's just just this
one type of thing, So then your world becomes smaller
(19:50):
as opposed to becoming bigger. You're not experiencing more and
new things because this is the end all be all.
But that's one aspect, like anything, too much of anything
is all is bad for you, right And as a result,
you know, like even say, no, what's cool is you
know they're fans doing like they're fans of things that
are doing the things that they were fans of. You know,
(20:12):
there's a perfect example is there's fans of comics that
are writing comics now. And that's a two pronged thing
as well. It's cool that you're living a dream. But
it's also the trick of it almost becomes entropic in
some way, where it's it's it's a rubber ros right,
it's a snake eating its own tail. And then the
ideas in some ways, as much as you might get
(20:34):
some cool ideas from when somebody was a kid, it
still ends up in just one small little bubble and
it starts just you know, I mean, that's not that's
kind of the opposite of entropy, but you get my point.
But then it's just starts either it gets bigger and
it's just too the ideas are too big. They don't
call us anymore because it's just it's just the same
thing over and over again, and that can only last
(20:57):
for so long. Yeah, But the cool part of it is,
going back to that first statement, is that it's pretty
cool to live your dream, right, Like it's pretty cool
to be a fan of this thing, and then you
get that chance. It's just a matter of just trying
to navigate it a little bit, navigate it wisely enough
(21:18):
so you're not treading the same ground over and over again,
or just try and do things break out that I
find them.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
You can listen to us on all podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
You can find us at payper Lab Studios on Instagram
or payperlab studios dot com, or just drop us a
line at design at paper lab studios dot.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Com and support us on Patreon at paper lab Studios.
Thank you for listening to paper.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Lab podcast A Mango Musica Turn That Music Up.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Fund fenced
Speaker 2 (23:03):
In too,
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