September 16, 2025 • 18 mins
Nicki and Mervyn dive into some of the pitfalls of a tertiary art education.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm Nicky McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer, and
traditional artist.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrators, storyteller and digital artist.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
You're listening to paper podcast, Hey, spicy beats.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Turn to music? All right? Yeah, I look at that.
I don't know how to the audience like crazy crazy,
(00:48):
not very good at this, not very good at this
either way? How are you doing?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
I'm good.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I'm kind of tired. I'm just being honest, but I'm good.
We're out here in the wilds of.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
The Yes, did you forget? No?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
You know, like I said, I'm not all there right now,
but yeah, yeah, and so so even now, like as
I as we record this, you know, we're we're an
hour ahead. We're back to the future. We are we
are in okay.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Okay, all right, I get you. We're on the road.
We're at a show. Well, this is actually the day
before the show, so this is day.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Zero and we have a this is like probably our
fresh as show because this is going to be out
pretty much as soon as we finished the show.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, yeah, it's going to be This is probably our
most current.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Piping hot, Yeah, piping hot, fresh out, hot, Hot and ready.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
That's what the name of the show should be. Hot
and ready.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
People that people that blow on their food to cool it,
and then there's people that go.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
As they eat it, and people are going to be
like you guys should go back to just doing your show.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Terrible, all right.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
So the reason why reading doing this is because other
than oh man, we need to do a show, is
because we had a conversation about you and schooling, and
you know, this is September, and I mean everybody's back
in school at this point, so so it seemed relevant
and it's a nice little addition to our previous school episode.
(02:36):
So yeah, you're saying, oh, you know, you felt like
you know, in school, when you're in art school. While
it was a great experience, there's just you felt like
you weren't challenged enough, and as a result, you know,
you ended up in a situation where you weren't you know,
maybe I had a few more challenges that you maybe
(02:56):
didn't need to do. If you were a challenge a
bit more in school or pushed like like did you
want to go and elaborate on Yeah, Like, I.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Mean I feel like I was challenged, but maybe not
academically in the way that I could have and there
wasn't I mean, like other than I think my major,
which also doesn't exist anymore ironically enough.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Okay, what was your major?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And you know, given an example of a challenge, So
what was your major?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So I majored in something called Interdisciplinary Arts, and it
was a very unique major in that you could take
electives in pretty much any artistic discipline that the school offered.
So for example, one semester, I was literally welding in
the sculpture department and simultaneously learning how to use a
(03:49):
knitting machine in the fiber department. So it was really
cool in that way. And it was essentially like you
could tailor the program to you know, suit your needs,
like based on what you were interested in, like exploring
in terms of like media.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
And uh, challenging in the sense of.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Like I was a really bad procrastinator with things, and
I think to some extent I still am. But for example,
like i'd have these essays do for like my liberal
arts classes and.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Like I would just wait to do them, like the
night before.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Like I would literally wake up like at three am,
and I'd like sit and.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Like, wait, what were you doing for hours before? You
were sleeping before?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I don't know, I was like fooling around or doing
like art projects or like going to the DDR club
but like the local other college or something.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
It was.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
It was not what I should have been doing.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Club as in like like club Matt club as in yeah,
turn music.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Up, no no, no, no, yeah, yeah, it was like
it was a Yeah, it was a club for like
dance Dance Evolution, which was awesome. It was just like
a it was like a video game club essentially.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Yeah. So, so I'd wake up at three a m.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
And I'd like zombie out on my laptop for like
an hour, and I'd like print out just what I
thought was like complete and utter garbage, and I would
get a's on these papers. So it didn't like reinforce
like any of this when you know I have these things.
And yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
So I mean what, like how would you end up
doing the work though? I mean, even if they gave
you more work, are you saying you would do the.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Work, I mean like I would, but I mean like
it was I feel like obviously like the folk, I mean,
like to be fair, like because I was taking like
I think, like eighteen credits a semester, which was like
a little bit under the max, but it was still
above like average, because like the average coursework was like
(06:07):
twelve to fifteen, so eighteen was like but I mean
like the majority of the time, I literally was just
spending in my studio, which is what you should be doing.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
So well, but okay, so what I'm trying to figure
out then, because so what was the division then? Because
if you were spending time in the studio and that's
what you're supposed to be doing, yeah, how like how
were you not being productive?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Then?
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I don't I don't, I don't forget.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Oh, I mean like I think that like I mean, yeah,
it's like that's where the focus should be.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
But like I guess too, it's like.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Maybe my liberal arts courses could have been more rigorous.
Like I'm like, maybe I could have challenged myself in
a way, like I could have probably taken like business
courses with like the local community college or just like
stuff in that way I think would have probably benefited
me more than like, I mean.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Because the school did not for any business.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Courses, not really in that way.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
There was like a mandatory professional practice on Thursdays that
like nobody took seriously.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
It wasn't that class.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
It was like super random.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
It was like whatever like topic they felt like dealing
with like that day. It was like it's like, oh,
let's talk about how to copyright stuff for like whatever
for like an hour and it's like and then that
was it.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
There's no follow up, there was no like nothing, and
it was just like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Did I expect you guys to kind of just figure
out the rest?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
I guess, I mean, I don't know. It was very
like it was like the most important thing was like
the attendance. So it's like there wasn't any like oh,
like we're gonna have like coursework or like anything after that.
It was just like it's like, yeah, here's a here's
a sheet on like how to copyright stuff or something.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
It's like okay, So it wasn't an expert that came in,
So it's like you'd need I feel like for a
class like that, obviously retrospect you probably either need because
my high school funny enough my school is a joke.
But they had an entertainment lawyer copyrights for big companies
and you know, creators and stuff. So that was interesting.
But I almost feel having a career that that has
(08:13):
copyrights even they don't have to be like some big
name I think sometimes educators lem but people miss that point.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Just somebody that has done this.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It also doesn't have to directly be related to arts,
like if you had just had like a writer or
something with like published copyrighted work or you know, it's
like just something.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
It's like it's all it's all the creative field.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
And I mean, like quite frankly, like a lot of
the people like in you know, the arts school don't
go on to be artists.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
You know, they find some other callings.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So it's like, I don't think that having like a
writer there would have been a far stretch.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Interesting. So yeah, that's interesting about the business stuff. It's
it's unfortunate they didn't try to push you guys in
the direction of being able to actually make money. Like
it's like, what was the point of spending all that
money to send you to a school.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I know you got scholarships, but.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
It was really short sighted on their part, and I
mean like also too, like they started funneling money into
like the majors that were like making them money, so
like for example, like they got rid of mine and
then but like then yeah, yeah, and then all of
the money started going into like graphic design and stuff
like that.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
So it's just like all right, I mean I get it.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
But at the same time too, like as far as
I'm concerned, like especially with what we do now, I'm like,
interdisciplinary is so essential because I like, I personally don't
think that you can, like it's it's very hard, I think,
to be an artist and just be in one discipline,
(09:51):
like in one genre these days.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
I get you.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Well, it's interesting because last well not last week, but
previously before this, I was in Cleveland, Yeah, and at
the show an artist and artists Sally long story short,
they were chatting because we running detrop at the night before,
and they were talking about the cover and did the
(10:15):
cover for that show. So they came by the booth
and just to cut to the point, he was talking
about how graphic design isn't an art and I was like,
oh man, buddy, Like I was like, and I just
started picking his brain because I'm like that, that's so
snooty of you to say, Like, I see, I know
(10:37):
what you're trying to say, but I don't think you,
as another artist, have the right to denigrate like a
whole other you know, art form like that. It's like, yeah,
you're just as bad as the gallery people.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
And I feel like in another lifetime I would have
gone into graphic design.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
And even in my undergrad studies, we did.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
A course on typography that basically changed my outlook on
a lot of things. Yeah, and it was like, you know,
learning all of the rules of like fonts and like, yeah,
it was just like it was mind blowing because it
was like all of these things that I completely took
for granted. It's like even just like looking at like
(11:22):
the labels on toothpaste, you know, it's like all of
it follows rules, and the typography of that is like
it's design, it's graphic design. Yeah, So to claim that
it's not art, I think is it's an extremely bold
and like very short sighted claim.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Yeah, but go on, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
No, it's pretty arrogant.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
And I said gallery people, as you know, some gallery
many gallery people looked on on anything else that's not
a white wall gallery thing. Yeah, it's like we're turned
into a circuit where we are a circular firing squad
artists because we all have our little niches. It's like
when our texts try to kind of separate themselves and
(12:02):
some people try to separate them because it's more technical,
and like something meaning technical doesn't deny it any art.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
It's true, I saw the Roses. Commer Bash is a jerk.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
So the actor himself is a jerk.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Or I don't Yeah, I didn't even see enough of it.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
His name another movie you walked out of? It's true,
the Roses and weapons. That's what else? What else did
you walk out of today?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
You like them?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
This is a tangent, but it's relevant one.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Yeah, we'll circle back.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
It's about arts, but no, yeah, it's just interesting, you
know all these things, like the school didn't guide you in
that direction, but you didn't really have any interest. But
also I think it's yes, college eduction, tertiary education is
about you know, self discovery and it is about self motivation.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Sure, but you're still a twenty year old or whatever
it is.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, you are not in like the I don't care
what anyone says. You're still a child, Like I'm like,
there were very few of us that were, you know,
paying for our bills or whatever in that capacity, and
it kind of sucked because like you became very aware
of like the kids that were Yeah, and they were
just different, man, because you know, they had to worry
(13:19):
about like it's.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Like a whole other set of whatevers.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, but you know, it's it's definitely good to kind
of consider these things on occasion and even as you whatever,
you know, levey or not knowing whether it's I don't
know why high school over listening to this, but whether
you're in high school. Hey, I don't know why an
elementary school I would be listening to this, But if.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
You're elementary school, that's a joke.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I don't think anybody under forty would be listened or
I guess anybody under forty to be listening to this.
I'm implying I'm the only person listening to this show
because I have to listen to it to edit it.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
So I don't think anybody under fourteen was listening to
this show. So listen to me.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Here, Mervin, your time has passed. And yes, all this
advice about school is irrelevant, but.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
It is good to.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
At least you know, try to kind of you know,
opening horizons to other things just because. But the problem
is is tricky because as a twenty year old, as
a young person, like you don't care about that. You
lore gonna live forever, right, So I definitely think a
lot of these schools or the schools that existed.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Back in the day, really you know, could have done better.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
So it's like, so I went on to graduate and
didn't exactly have a game plan. So I essentially moved
back to where I was originally from, which was Miami,
and I mean, you know.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Like honestly I was.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I obviously could not see it at the time, but
things ended up working out and like the their own
like bizarre way, because like I eventually, like I didn't
go back to grad school like I thought about it,
and I think I like almost applied to like the
local college for their education department, no, because I want
to go on to teach, and for whatever reason I didn't.
(15:19):
I mean honestly, I feel like at this point that's
a that's a blessing. But yeah, no, so I ended
up basically getting like a like a very bar series
of like retail jobs that I feel like essentially became
like kind of like the internships. I probably like I
I like basically kind of treated them like internships.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
So it's like they were really goofy.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
And like at places that I don't even they don't
even exist anymore. Like one of them was as like
a Joanne's cashier, and I did like visuals a gap
for like a hot minute, and it was just interesting
because I know that the average person who works these
jobs just like goes in and like does their thing
and then like.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Walks out a couple hours later. But no, they they
really got.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
They allowed me to see like the pos system and
like the logistics of like how like a how like
a brand or like a retailer works, and especially like
you know, Joean's I can't say much because it's literally
non existent, but at least a gap to some capacity.
It's like they were like I worked with a bunch
(16:30):
of really talented visuals managers and they taught me like
a bunch of really great things that I still like
take into practice with like my own like practice and
like clothing in general.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
So I think that was really good.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Do you have like one example.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
That you're sure I hope forever fold pants and jeans
the GAP way.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Well, I mean like for your business.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Oh I mean okay, yeah, no, like presentation is every thing,
and like specifically, like I helped out a good friend
last weekend.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
You might know them.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
It was Eisner Award winning Leana Kangis and they needed
help with their T shirts and all that jazz. So
I spooced it up a little bit using my knowledge
that I had gained it GAP and doing their visuals.
So you know, I had to make sure that things
were like outward facing and that there were like price
(17:30):
tags and also too just like customer engagement because GAP
was big on that. So like when I wasn't doing visuals,
I was doing like sales and like cashier work, and
you know you couldn't be asleep on that job.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
So okay, yeah, it's very helpful, very educational.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Thanks.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
You can listen to us on all podcasts platforms.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
You can find us at paper Lab Studios on Instagram
or paperlap studios dot com, or just drop us a
line at design at paper lab studios dot.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Com and support us on Patreon at paper Lab Studios.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Thank you for listening to podcast.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Why are you doing that. Oh my god,
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm Nicky McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer, and
traditional artist.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrators, storyteller and digital artist.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
You're listening to paper podcast, Hey, spicy beats.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Turn to music? All right? Yeah, I look at that.
I don't know how to the audience like crazy crazy,
(00:48):
not very good at this, not very good at this
either way? How are you doing?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
I'm good.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I'm kind of tired. I'm just being honest, but I'm good.
We're out here in the wilds of.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
The Yes, did you forget? No?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
You know, like I said, I'm not all there right now,
but yeah, yeah, and so so even now, like as
I as we record this, you know, we're we're an
hour ahead. We're back to the future. We are we
are in okay.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Okay, all right, I get you. We're on the road.
We're at a show. Well, this is actually the day
before the show, so this is day.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Zero and we have a this is like probably our
fresh as show because this is going to be out
pretty much as soon as we finished the show.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, yeah, it's going to be This is probably our
most current.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Piping hot, Yeah, piping hot, fresh out, hot, Hot and ready.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
That's what the name of the show should be. Hot
and ready.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
People that people that blow on their food to cool it,
and then there's people that go.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
As they eat it, and people are going to be
like you guys should go back to just doing your show.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Terrible, all right.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
So the reason why reading doing this is because other
than oh man, we need to do a show, is
because we had a conversation about you and schooling, and
you know, this is September, and I mean everybody's back
in school at this point, so so it seemed relevant
and it's a nice little addition to our previous school episode.
(02:36):
So yeah, you're saying, oh, you know, you felt like
you know, in school, when you're in art school. While
it was a great experience, there's just you felt like
you weren't challenged enough, and as a result, you know,
you ended up in a situation where you weren't you know,
maybe I had a few more challenges that you maybe
(02:56):
didn't need to do. If you were a challenge a
bit more in school or pushed like like did you
want to go and elaborate on Yeah, Like, I.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Mean I feel like I was challenged, but maybe not
academically in the way that I could have and there
wasn't I mean, like other than I think my major,
which also doesn't exist anymore ironically enough.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Okay, what was your major?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And you know, given an example of a challenge, So
what was your major?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So I majored in something called Interdisciplinary Arts, and it
was a very unique major in that you could take
electives in pretty much any artistic discipline that the school offered.
So for example, one semester, I was literally welding in
the sculpture department and simultaneously learning how to use a
(03:49):
knitting machine in the fiber department. So it was really
cool in that way. And it was essentially like you
could tailor the program to you know, suit your needs,
like based on what you were interested in, like exploring
in terms of like media.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
And uh, challenging in the sense of.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Like I was a really bad procrastinator with things, and
I think to some extent I still am. But for example,
like i'd have these essays do for like my liberal
arts classes and.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Like I would just wait to do them, like the
night before.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Like I would literally wake up like at three am,
and I'd like sit and.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Like, wait, what were you doing for hours before? You
were sleeping before?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I don't know, I was like fooling around or doing
like art projects or like going to the DDR club
but like the local other college or something.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
It was.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
It was not what I should have been doing.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Club as in like like club Matt club as in yeah,
turn music.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Up, no no, no, no, yeah, yeah, it was like
it was a Yeah, it was a club for like
dance Dance Evolution, which was awesome. It was just like
a it was like a video game club essentially.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Yeah. So, so I'd wake up at three a m.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
And I'd like zombie out on my laptop for like
an hour, and I'd like print out just what I
thought was like complete and utter garbage, and I would
get a's on these papers. So it didn't like reinforce
like any of this when you know I have these things.
And yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
So I mean what, like how would you end up
doing the work though? I mean, even if they gave
you more work, are you saying you would do the.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Work, I mean like I would, but I mean like
it was I feel like obviously like the folk, I mean,
like to be fair, like because I was taking like
I think, like eighteen credits a semester, which was like
a little bit under the max, but it was still
above like average, because like the average coursework was like
(06:07):
twelve to fifteen, so eighteen was like but I mean
like the majority of the time, I literally was just
spending in my studio, which is what you should be doing.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
So well, but okay, so what I'm trying to figure
out then, because so what was the division then? Because
if you were spending time in the studio and that's
what you're supposed to be doing, yeah, how like how
were you not being productive?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Then?
Speaker 3 (06:33):
I don't I don't, I don't forget.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Oh, I mean like I think that like I mean, yeah,
it's like that's where the focus should be.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
But like I guess too, it's like.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Maybe my liberal arts courses could have been more rigorous.
Like I'm like, maybe I could have challenged myself in
a way, like I could have probably taken like business
courses with like the local community college or just like
stuff in that way I think would have probably benefited
me more than like, I mean.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Because the school did not for any business.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Courses, not really in that way.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
There was like a mandatory professional practice on Thursdays that
like nobody took seriously.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
It wasn't that class.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
It was like super random.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
It was like whatever like topic they felt like dealing
with like that day. It was like it's like, oh,
let's talk about how to copyright stuff for like whatever
for like an hour and it's like and then that
was it.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
There's no follow up, there was no like nothing, and
it was just like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Did I expect you guys to kind of just figure
out the rest?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
I guess, I mean, I don't know. It was very
like it was like the most important thing was like
the attendance. So it's like there wasn't any like oh,
like we're gonna have like coursework or like anything after that.
It was just like it's like, yeah, here's a here's
a sheet on like how to copyright stuff or something.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
It's like okay, So it wasn't an expert that came in,
So it's like you'd need I feel like for a
class like that, obviously retrospect you probably either need because
my high school funny enough my school is a joke.
But they had an entertainment lawyer copyrights for big companies
and you know, creators and stuff. So that was interesting.
But I almost feel having a career that that has
(08:13):
copyrights even they don't have to be like some big
name I think sometimes educators lem but people miss that point.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Just somebody that has done this.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It also doesn't have to directly be related to arts,
like if you had just had like a writer or
something with like published copyrighted work or you know, it's
like just something.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
It's like it's all it's all the creative field.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
And I mean, like quite frankly, like a lot of
the people like in you know, the arts school don't
go on to be artists.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
You know, they find some other callings.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So it's like, I don't think that having like a
writer there would have been a far stretch.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Interesting. So yeah, that's interesting about the business stuff. It's
it's unfortunate they didn't try to push you guys in
the direction of being able to actually make money. Like
it's like, what was the point of spending all that
money to send you to a school.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I know you got scholarships, but.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
It was really short sighted on their part, and I
mean like also too, like they started funneling money into
like the majors that were like making them money, so
like for example, like they got rid of mine and
then but like then yeah, yeah, and then all of
the money started going into like graphic design and stuff
like that.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
So it's just like all right, I mean I get it.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
But at the same time too, like as far as
I'm concerned, like especially with what we do now, I'm like,
interdisciplinary is so essential because I like, I personally don't
think that you can, like it's it's very hard, I think,
to be an artist and just be in one discipline,
(09:51):
like in one genre these days.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
I get you.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Well, it's interesting because last well not last week, but
previously before this, I was in Cleveland, Yeah, and at
the show an artist and artists Sally long story short,
they were chatting because we running detrop at the night before,
and they were talking about the cover and did the
(10:15):
cover for that show. So they came by the booth
and just to cut to the point, he was talking
about how graphic design isn't an art and I was like,
oh man, buddy, Like I was like, and I just
started picking his brain because I'm like that, that's so
snooty of you to say, Like, I see, I know
(10:37):
what you're trying to say, but I don't think you,
as another artist, have the right to denigrate like a
whole other you know, art form like that. It's like, yeah,
you're just as bad as the gallery people.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
And I feel like in another lifetime I would have
gone into graphic design.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
And even in my undergrad studies, we did.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
A course on typography that basically changed my outlook on
a lot of things. Yeah, and it was like, you know,
learning all of the rules of like fonts and like, yeah,
it was just like it was mind blowing because it
was like all of these things that I completely took
for granted. It's like even just like looking at like
(11:22):
the labels on toothpaste, you know, it's like all of
it follows rules, and the typography of that is like
it's design, it's graphic design. Yeah, So to claim that
it's not art, I think is it's an extremely bold
and like very short sighted claim.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Yeah, but go on, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
No, it's pretty arrogant.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
And I said gallery people, as you know, some gallery
many gallery people looked on on anything else that's not
a white wall gallery thing. Yeah, it's like we're turned
into a circuit where we are a circular firing squad
artists because we all have our little niches. It's like
when our texts try to kind of separate themselves and
(12:02):
some people try to separate them because it's more technical,
and like something meaning technical doesn't deny it any art.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
It's true, I saw the Roses. Commer Bash is a jerk.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
So the actor himself is a jerk.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Or I don't Yeah, I didn't even see enough of it.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
His name another movie you walked out of? It's true,
the Roses and weapons. That's what else? What else did
you walk out of today?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
You like them?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
This is a tangent, but it's relevant one.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Yeah, we'll circle back.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
It's about arts, but no, yeah, it's just interesting, you
know all these things, like the school didn't guide you in
that direction, but you didn't really have any interest. But
also I think it's yes, college eduction, tertiary education is
about you know, self discovery and it is about self motivation.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Sure, but you're still a twenty year old or whatever
it is.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, you are not in like the I don't care
what anyone says. You're still a child, Like I'm like,
there were very few of us that were, you know,
paying for our bills or whatever in that capacity, and
it kind of sucked because like you became very aware
of like the kids that were Yeah, and they were
just different, man, because you know, they had to worry
(13:19):
about like it's.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Like a whole other set of whatevers.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, but you know, it's it's definitely good to kind
of consider these things on occasion and even as you whatever,
you know, levey or not knowing whether it's I don't
know why high school over listening to this, but whether
you're in high school. Hey, I don't know why an
elementary school I would be listening to this, But if.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
You're elementary school, that's a joke.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I don't think anybody under forty would be listened or
I guess anybody under forty to be listening to this.
I'm implying I'm the only person listening to this show
because I have to listen to it to edit it.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
So I don't think anybody under fourteen was listening to
this show. So listen to me.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Here, Mervin, your time has passed. And yes, all this
advice about school is irrelevant, but.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
It is good to.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
At least you know, try to kind of you know,
opening horizons to other things just because. But the problem
is is tricky because as a twenty year old, as
a young person, like you don't care about that. You
lore gonna live forever, right, So I definitely think a
lot of these schools or the schools that existed.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Back in the day, really you know, could have done better.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
So it's like, so I went on to graduate and
didn't exactly have a game plan. So I essentially moved
back to where I was originally from, which was Miami,
and I mean, you know.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Like honestly I was.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I obviously could not see it at the time, but
things ended up working out and like the their own
like bizarre way, because like I eventually, like I didn't
go back to grad school like I thought about it,
and I think I like almost applied to like the
local college for their education department, no, because I want
to go on to teach, and for whatever reason I didn't.
(15:19):
I mean honestly, I feel like at this point that's
a that's a blessing. But yeah, no, so I ended
up basically getting like a like a very bar series
of like retail jobs that I feel like essentially became
like kind of like the internships. I probably like I
I like basically kind of treated them like internships.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
So it's like they were really goofy.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
And like at places that I don't even they don't
even exist anymore. Like one of them was as like
a Joanne's cashier, and I did like visuals a gap
for like a hot minute, and it was just interesting
because I know that the average person who works these
jobs just like goes in and like does their thing
and then like.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Walks out a couple hours later. But no, they they
really got.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
They allowed me to see like the pos system and
like the logistics of like how like a how like
a brand or like a retailer works, and especially like
you know, Joean's I can't say much because it's literally
non existent, but at least a gap to some capacity.
It's like they were like I worked with a bunch
(16:30):
of really talented visuals managers and they taught me like
a bunch of really great things that I still like
take into practice with like my own like practice and
like clothing in general.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
So I think that was really good.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Do you have like one example.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
That you're sure I hope forever fold pants and jeans
the GAP way.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Well, I mean like for your business.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Oh I mean okay, yeah, no, like presentation is every thing,
and like specifically, like I helped out a good friend
last weekend.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
You might know them.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
It was Eisner Award winning Leana Kangis and they needed
help with their T shirts and all that jazz. So
I spooced it up a little bit using my knowledge
that I had gained it GAP and doing their visuals.
So you know, I had to make sure that things
were like outward facing and that there were like price
(17:30):
tags and also too just like customer engagement because GAP
was big on that. So like when I wasn't doing visuals,
I was doing like sales and like cashier work, and
you know you couldn't be asleep on that job.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
So okay, yeah, it's very helpful, very educational.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Thanks.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
You can listen to us on all podcasts platforms.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
You can find us at paper Lab Studios on Instagram
or paperlap studios dot com, or just drop us a
line at design at paper lab studios dot.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Com and support us on Patreon at paper Lab Studios.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Thank you for listening to podcast.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Why are you doing that. Oh my god,
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.