June 10, 2025 • 24 mins
Mervyn and Nicki dive into the nitty-gritty of convention schedule logistics, which might be helpful for artists who are starting out. Mervyn discusses some of the history of Artist Alley and advocates for corner booth supremacy as Nicki warns people against heading out the same day as a convention ends (at least if you can help it!) and keeping your eyes peeled for local, non-convention events to participate in.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Nicky McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer
and traditional artist.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrator, storyteller and digital artist.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You're listening to podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You hear that music, she stole it off the internet.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Just kidding. It's spicy beats b E E T S
and he hates beats. Let's check you out that SoundCloud.
So you know, we've been doing shows art. What's funny?
(00:49):
What's funny? They see this one over here? You know,
I had my whole serious field plan and it just
starts laughing at me. I'm telling you it's paper app guys. No,
But in all seriousness, we've been working together for a
while though, and you know we at various times we
(01:09):
had different, uh like workloads. Right when it came to shows.
What like, I know you said you did it back
in the day, and you know he made a little
money and whatnot, it was good whatever, blah blah blah.
But what do you think is an ideal workload for
a show, like in terms of like a schedule, like
(01:30):
if we're doing it from you know at twelve twelve months,
you know, one year, you know, fifty two weeks.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I mean I feel like a good starting point is
probably like give or take a show a month.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Show a month, Okay, but how do you get into
that because you need money for it, you know what
I mean? Like like so for somebody starting out right
with a with a with in this world, like, is
it worth it doing like straight to a going straight
to a booth you do to artists Ali, Like if
you're do it once a week, that's gonna be a
little costly. So it's once a months or bad.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, I mean, if you're starting out, I would definitely
recommend artist ali. Uh it's more affordable for one and
uh two, it kind of lets you dip your foot
into the show, so to speak, so you can get
like a general like vibe of the show if you
haven't done it before. And I would definitely recommend doing
(02:28):
like local shows so there's way less overhead. That way,
you can either you know, drive in or like commute
to the show itself. And whereas like once you go
out of state, per se, there's like a whole another
list of expenses anywhere from like plane tickets to you know,
(02:49):
hotel expenses, uh, that you have to take into account.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Well, let me ask you a question. Did you start
an artist Sally?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
But what and the thing is, so is and you
were doing local shows or were you in because I
know you went to school they were yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I mean like they were local to wherever I was
at the time. So when I was in college, I
was doing shows in the Midwest, and then like when
I would come back during the summer, I would, you know,
do shows in Florida.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
How did you get into the shows? Was there like
a vetting system? Like was it just money?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Like what I mean like a lot of times usually
there is some sort of like online application. It's pretty basic.
Like it's usually just you know, like listing like what.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Your wares are.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And these days now it's like if you have like
a social media page. So I mean like it just uh,
it just lets the staff know like if you're will
be like a good fit I think for the show,
and then upon acceptance, then you know, you usually get
like some sort of invoice that you have to take
care of.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Well, so I would say you should have like, you
definitely should have a social media of some sort, you know,
not saying you need to be an influencer, but you
should have either. And I'm just you should either have
a website or some kind of portfolio of your work somewhere,
even if it's available on another site that's not yours,
but but something to show because it helps them to
(04:14):
kind of corroberate you know, who you are and what
you do. Back in the day, they used to have sections.
Remember they wouldn't just like they would look if you're
an artist and they put you on an art section,
and then they'd have a craft section. I don't know
if that's a thing anymore.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I think it depends on the show. I know that
like certain shows will still do that. Like they'll have
like specifically like an artists ally section, and then they'll
have like a like more like crafts person section, and
then everything else is like vendors or exhibitors.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Well do you like that setup because do you feel
like maybe then the same people are competing with each other.
Do you feel it should be spread out or do
you you'd rather just be concentrated.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I mean, I think it makes sense. To have it
be more concentrated, because then that way it's a lot
easier for like the customer to kind of find what
they typically want. I mean. But like also too, it's
there's so much crossover these days. Like you'll see artists
as like vendors or exhibitors or you know that sort
(05:19):
of thing. Or you'll see like in artist sally, like
somebody will have some handmade crafts, and I think that
that's perfectly fine as well.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Well, just to add to what you're what I was
asking you about the artists sally these days, I can't
speak for then though, I think it was nothing. Artistani
started off as a free thing in many cases, like
Mega CON's artists that he was free. It was just
for small artists, small press people to kind of get
some exposure. I believe Comic Sandio, Comic Con San Diego,
(05:50):
Comic Con Let me enuncie it started the ARTISTSDAU was
free as well. It was a sponsored by a deviant art.
Actually that's why they had the juris system or whatever
system because New York Comic Con also has a well
I think that's how they evaluate people. Like you, you know,
it's it's not that you can't just apply and get
(06:11):
in there, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, that's true. There's yeah, there's so many like for
certain conventions, there's so many artists supplying or sometimes even
vendors that they have to have like a lot of system.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah. But but but the thing is, I think the
origin of it. I believe the origin of it is
because it used to be free. Yeah, because it was
supposed to be a community thing. This is before conventions
became you know, I guess big money at this point,
because I mean, at this at this point, even if
it is a quote unquote comic on, it really is
(06:44):
more of a pop culture bonanza. Yeah. Pop culture is
definitely the best way to put it. Uh, it's it's
definitely a different beast. So you started an Artists Sally,
You did your thing whatever, blah blah blah, what okay,
And I'm going to get to the schedule and again,
but what like, how do you know when you're ready
(07:05):
to go to booths? Because we started an Artists Sally.
One of our first things we did together, which was
it was a booth for me in Mega con. Yeah,
and you slept, remember you slept under the booth because
you know, I think we spoke about this because you
had to, you were going to compete and in a
costume contest. But you you arranged my booth and you
made it viable, right, right, And we were doing artists
(07:28):
Sally booths for a while. But I think we had
we had the benefit of working with at the time,
there were a super con right, and because you know,
we we'd work and we'd do a lot of design stuff,
art stuff, cover stuff, designed created their mascot and as
(07:52):
a result, we'd get a booth, a probo booth, right,
And we got the feel of what booths were like,
and we kind of figured out that, okay, you know,
let's go to have a corner in lines in lines
aren't great, but if you if you know what you're doing,
you can still you know, utilize that. But but a
corner is usually ideal. And with a corner, each of
(08:13):
us can kind of dominate the space. Yeah, right, But
the thing is, not every show is as as is
maybe as affordable, but so so what like, do you
remember what time it was when we just said, okay,
we're just gonna do booths for every kind of show.
(08:33):
It's hard to say.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
I would definitely, I feel like the show that we
would do in Dallas was like probably a big contributor
to that.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, I mean even though the first year was like
kind of rough or whatever, I think it was even
like after that, past a certain point, we just realized
we had like outgrown it.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
No, and that's a good point. You mentioned Dallas, and
it kind of made it all the memory kind of
wash over because we were in Dallas. We're in artists, Sally.
It's the first time doing the show. I remember I
found the show online. It was Dallas Comic on right.
It was like the first year it was purchased by
fanex but so it wasn't Dallas Fanexpo yet, And I
was like, hey, we should do this show. I don't
(09:16):
know why, Let's go to Dallas. Because that was also
another thing peering into doing show stuff is we wanted
to like just see places we wanted to travel to.
So we're like, oh, that might be a good place
to do a show. Mind you that might you know, financially,
that might not be the smartest way to depending on
your situation, might not be the smartest way to do
a show a month. But thankfully we were established enough
(09:41):
with what we were doing that week, we could look
at it that way. So we said, look, let's do
this show. And we're like, just be cautious, because we're
very cautious back then, like let's let's let's just get
an artist. Sally well, that was all we're gonna get.
We weren't gonna and we got artists, but we ended
up getting And this is another thing when artists that
(10:03):
if you're new to a thing, you have you know you,
and you don't have necessarily a salesperson to talk to,
you're kind of stuck with whatever they give you sometimes,
you know what I mean. And we were stuck in
the middle of this show in a town we've never
been in. We were next to these people that had
Pachinko machines and these really cool people that were doing
like a zombie training thing, like survival training thing, and yeah,
(10:30):
I mean I think we I'm going to tell them
the number just because to give you a night. I
think we made negative fifty or plus fifty dollars.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I think it was like plus fifty. Yeah, and that
was like by the skin of our.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Ties, yes, and we had to lead. And because we
were so cautious, we booked our flight to leave the
Sunday night. Oh yeah, and the flight.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Don't do that, yeah, right, don't do that to yourself.
It's like it's so worth it to just spend the
extra money. And I mean I say that now because
we can do it.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
But like it was really rough.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
It was like we we had to like we.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Left early because of and then the show ended at six,
but we didn't know what traffic was, so we had.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
To back everything up and just like just to pack
up the booth.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Split. Yeah, it was. It was because it's because the
thing is, normally we'd go to a show on a Sunday,
you know, so we we we go up with four bags,
right we you know, if we set up, we leave
the show floor on set up day with one bag,
go to our hotel. So on tierdown day, we'll have
three bags at the booth. Right. So at this point,
(11:39):
you know, you know, think of this, Now we have
to leave from this dollar show. And so we we
we had to you know, kind of come back to
the show that morning with all our bags. So we
had the four bags and we had to tier Dome
pack up everything. And I think we started packing up
like maybe four you know, meaning we lost money because
(12:00):
we're not selling the people. And then we got off
that place by like six I can't remember specifically, but anyway, Yeah,
that was that was so stressful. We already weren't making
a ton of money, but the thing is this and
doing that show, and this is advice for anybody doing
any kind of business. We're like, wow, this is all
(12:23):
we made, even if it was negative fifty. I think
the thing we noticed is that we made money. Yeah,
well the problem was location and the problem was in
experience in that environment. And we're like, Okay, you know,
we're doing this again. Like that might have seemed like
a thing we're like, no, never doing this again, but
we're no, we're doing this again because the loss out
(12:44):
of losses at a show or not doing well at
a show, can also teach you a lot more than
if you make money. And I think that, you know,
that was definitely one of those situations where we're like, okay,
and next year we got a bigger booth, especially since
we got a booth in a better in a premium section. Yeah,
we just paid the money because we're like, the reason
(13:06):
why we didn't make as much money is because nobody
could find us and we've never been there, so they
don't know us. Even if we advertising, they don't know us.
They don't know who we are. We've never been in
that part of the country yet. And it was great,
you know what I mean. So that's that's a good
example of I think, and like you're saying that, at
(13:26):
that point, we just started just getting bigger booths and
it just made sense.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
So it's like, the amount of like real estate that
you have should be proportional to the amount of money
that you're making.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
The money that you're making, and willingness, the will to
actually work the booth, if that's fair, because the larger
the booth is, the more work. That's true, you know,
if you don't like this goes back to what we
say about help. The fact that we have each other's
backs helps, and we have people that you're wonderful, people
that work with us that will have our backs. Ryan
(13:58):
is a collie of ours, wonderful dude. Met him in
because of Dallas. He's one of our customers and he's
been with us since well maybe the second or third year.
Maybe the third year he got a commission of his
girlfriend at the time. He's a big fan of of
the character death from Sandman and would always get a
(14:23):
lot of drawings of that character and he just started,
you know, coming by and helping and honestly, you know,
it's it goes back to that thing where you know,
you this is a very great environment to build relationships
and meet new people and you know, just just kind
of expand your horizons.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
But yeah, not not always, but you'll usually get back
the energy that you put out.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
It's true. True, we we always enjoyed being there at
the time, but yeah, that was that was our growth
from you know, art sality to to booths that thank
you for click, you know, having that light bulb click
on in my head. Though, I'm going to ask you
this though, so in you know, doing the artist ali
(15:13):
to t booth thing and even trying to plan out
monthly like do you think I know you're saying maybe
once a month is a good pace. Would you say
once a month? Once a month in terms of local
shows like once a month. I mean, I know this
is tricky because you have to factor in somebody's finances,
(15:35):
but let's just say, what do you think is ideal?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I mean, if you can I like also too, I
assume that like this isn't necessarily going to suddenly shift
into somebody's like day job. Like I feel like back
when we even started this, like we were not doing
like one show a month. It was definitely like maybe
like one every two months or something like that, and
(16:00):
you know, so like we'd have like more time to
plan and like figure stuff out. So I feel like,
even if you're like even on track with that, I
think that's a pretty good pace. And then like also too,
there are things that like aren't even necessarily quote unquote
like shows. Like there might be like a one day
like pop up event at like your local farmers market
(16:21):
and they're like looking for artists or something like that.
So you know, just stuff like that. I feel like
you can also kind of like uh segue.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Into lateral thinking, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Segue into and I feel like there are like a
lot of opportunities like that, because like there are certain
places where they want to build community and.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yeah, and that's a great point you made, because we
used to do the Miami Book Fair, and the only
reason it's because you know, it's just we have other
things going on at that time though, But we used
to do that and it was a great show. We
made some of our best contacts there. And I'll go
back to it, like what you're saying about thinking Latto
laterally in terms of way exhibit, Yeah, doing an event
(17:02):
a month doesn't have to be a convention like she's saying,
farmers market, whatever, a book fair, even library shows. That's
a great way to get into community events. Library show, right,
a small library show about what I can't remember years ago.
That's where you know, colleague Joel Joel and myself we
you know, we we met corporate clients there like they saw,
(17:25):
you know, you know, our rinkingdink little art and and
mind you this art has nothing to do with food,
maybe the opposite of food. And uh, this person give
well actually it was just me there, I guess, but
he gave me the his his business card and said, hey,
uh you know, would you mind if I if my
(17:48):
marketing people got in contact with you on Monday. I
just thought it was a joke, you know, I saw
the name and the company there, Okay, And that's what
happened on the Monday, and they became a client. So
very very very fascinating. What can happen when you just
think outside the box, Like there's that that event we
(18:08):
did for the charity organization where we were doing caricatures
for two hours. And this is this goes to how
we just love to do these crazy things. Two hours
we did. We drew We each drew sixty plus kids
in two hours, right, and it was a free charity thing.
(18:28):
I forgot how we were supposed to get paid initially. Anyway,
the event ended up giving us money. Like you're like, no, no,
you guys deserves for what you just did. And you know,
you know, it's just different, different, different ways in which
you can just kind of expand your your your reach
in terms of whatever it is you're trying to do
(18:49):
in the art world.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, so I mean, like it's good to keep your
mind open because especially like at like the smaller events
as well, the connections that you made will probably be
more personal. For one.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Yeah, just like Quato says, open your mind. It was
his voice, like that was it deeper from Total Recall
open you know the guy.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Okay, no, I know who you're talking about, but yeah,
I couldn't tell you. I think I've seen Total Recall
like once.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
So for those of you who don't know what I'm
talking about, Google Quato from Total recall, this is not
for you kids. Open your mind so the thing that
you're going to see that image kept saying, open your
mind to I don't know, Sourtz Nigger's character Quaid right
or something like that. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, man, just
(19:40):
just do different things, you know, challenge yourself. You might
have fun, and you might need some interesting people. Like
I said, some of our biggest clients, like we used
to do the thing at the movie theater. Yeah, met
some big car like my Our biggest clients we've met
have been at non convention shows, that's true. Biggest then clients,
(20:00):
Like it's very fascinating because it's just people that were
just wandering around because a lot of times they're like, oh,
what's this and they just showed up. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
People love the spectacle of just like events and that
sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
So yeah, and you know, you can find art lovers
almost anywhere, that's true, and you can convert some people
into art lovers, you know what I mean. And even
past that, you know, outside of the selfish aims, you
might inspire somebody, you know what I mean, Like, you know,
there could be kids or an adult there that says,
oh man, I could have been doing this too, you
(20:36):
know what I mean, even though don't confuse that with
that situation where we're at a booth and a parent
or a grown person just saying to another grown person
saying stuff like oh, you can do that, or it's like, oh,
my friend can do that, and it's like, well but
they're not, so I mean my k could do that.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Yeah, it's like, well good luck with that. I wish
I'm the best. But it's like, well, you know, or
but I don't mean when they say it, just say
when they say it implying that, well, then it's not
worth my money. Yeah, it's like, well, you're saying that
whatever your kid does won't be worth money either, or
your friend. Like literally like think about what you're doing guys.
(21:20):
So you know, good luck when you're making a starving
artist joke, you probably weren't starving them. So do you
have any other thoughts on shows and scheduling? I know
you have, you had some pretty good points.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like the biggest thing is
just like staying flexible because like also too, shows kind
of come and go like all the time, Like especially
I feel like ever since the pandemic, like the dates
have been topsy turvy, so like I feel like everything
used to have a more regular schedule and then these
days it's kind of just like anything goes. Yes, you know, yeah,
(22:01):
just remaining flexible, I think, and you know, keeping an
ear to the ground would definitely help.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Yeah, it's true. Most people you talk to make sure
you at shows stay in touch. And you know, if hey,
if you can get to know a promoter or two,
that's good too, you know what I mean. Not necessarily
for free booths, that's not the point, but you know,
they can kind.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Of in a relationship with them. It's helpful, yeah, because
they'll give you recommendations or like advice to.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Tell you where to warn you. They can warn you
off of things that aren't work because you know they
they might not all know each well, they know each
other in certain ways, but they might not know know
each other. But there's always information traveling, and who knows,
there's nothing wrong with hopefully being on the receiving end
of some of that information, right And with that, if
(22:50):
you've educated and you've dropped some knowledge.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
You can listen to us on all podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
You can find us that payperlab Studios on Instagram, or
paper lab studios dot com, or just drop us a
line at design at paper lab studios dot com.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And support us on Patreon at paper lab Studios. Thank
you for listening to paper
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Lab podcast A Mango Music Turn that Music Up p
Hi, I'm Nicky McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer
and traditional artist.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrator, storyteller and digital artist.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You're listening to podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You hear that music, she stole it off the internet.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Just kidding. It's spicy beats b E E T S
and he hates beats. Let's check you out that SoundCloud.
So you know, we've been doing shows art. What's funny?
(00:49):
What's funny? They see this one over here? You know,
I had my whole serious field plan and it just
starts laughing at me. I'm telling you it's paper app guys. No,
But in all seriousness, we've been working together for a
while though, and you know we at various times we
(01:09):
had different, uh like workloads. Right when it came to shows.
What like, I know you said you did it back
in the day, and you know he made a little
money and whatnot, it was good whatever, blah blah blah.
But what do you think is an ideal workload for
a show, like in terms of like a schedule, like
(01:30):
if we're doing it from you know at twelve twelve months,
you know, one year, you know, fifty two weeks.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I mean I feel like a good starting point is
probably like give or take a show a month.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Show a month, Okay, but how do you get into
that because you need money for it, you know what
I mean? Like like so for somebody starting out right
with a with a with in this world, like, is
it worth it doing like straight to a going straight
to a booth you do to artists Ali, Like if
you're do it once a week, that's gonna be a
little costly. So it's once a months or bad.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, I mean, if you're starting out, I would definitely
recommend artist ali. Uh it's more affordable for one and
uh two, it kind of lets you dip your foot
into the show, so to speak, so you can get
like a general like vibe of the show if you
haven't done it before. And I would definitely recommend doing
(02:28):
like local shows so there's way less overhead. That way,
you can either you know, drive in or like commute
to the show itself. And whereas like once you go
out of state, per se, there's like a whole another
list of expenses anywhere from like plane tickets to you know,
(02:49):
hotel expenses, uh, that you have to take into account.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Well, let me ask you a question. Did you start
an artist Sally?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
But what and the thing is, so is and you
were doing local shows or were you in because I
know you went to school they were yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I mean like they were local to wherever I was
at the time. So when I was in college, I
was doing shows in the Midwest, and then like when
I would come back during the summer, I would, you know,
do shows in Florida.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
How did you get into the shows? Was there like
a vetting system? Like was it just money?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Like what I mean like a lot of times usually
there is some sort of like online application. It's pretty basic.
Like it's usually just you know, like listing like what.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Your wares are.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And these days now it's like if you have like
a social media page. So I mean like it just uh,
it just lets the staff know like if you're will
be like a good fit I think for the show,
and then upon acceptance, then you know, you usually get
like some sort of invoice that you have to take
care of.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Well, so I would say you should have like, you
definitely should have a social media of some sort, you know,
not saying you need to be an influencer, but you
should have either. And I'm just you should either have
a website or some kind of portfolio of your work somewhere,
even if it's available on another site that's not yours,
but but something to show because it helps them to
(04:14):
kind of corroberate you know, who you are and what
you do. Back in the day, they used to have sections.
Remember they wouldn't just like they would look if you're
an artist and they put you on an art section,
and then they'd have a craft section. I don't know
if that's a thing anymore.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I think it depends on the show. I know that
like certain shows will still do that. Like they'll have
like specifically like an artists ally section, and then they'll
have like a like more like crafts person section, and
then everything else is like vendors or exhibitors.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Well do you like that setup because do you feel
like maybe then the same people are competing with each other.
Do you feel it should be spread out or do
you you'd rather just be concentrated.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I mean, I think it makes sense. To have it
be more concentrated, because then that way it's a lot
easier for like the customer to kind of find what
they typically want. I mean. But like also too, it's
there's so much crossover these days. Like you'll see artists
as like vendors or exhibitors or you know that sort
(05:19):
of thing. Or you'll see like in artist sally, like
somebody will have some handmade crafts, and I think that
that's perfectly fine as well.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Well, just to add to what you're what I was
asking you about the artists sally these days, I can't
speak for then though, I think it was nothing. Artistani
started off as a free thing in many cases, like
Mega CON's artists that he was free. It was just
for small artists, small press people to kind of get
some exposure. I believe Comic Sandio, Comic Con San Diego,
(05:50):
Comic Con Let me enuncie it started the ARTISTSDAU was
free as well. It was a sponsored by a deviant art.
Actually that's why they had the juris system or whatever
system because New York Comic Con also has a well
I think that's how they evaluate people. Like you, you know,
it's it's not that you can't just apply and get
(06:11):
in there, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, that's true. There's yeah, there's so many like for
certain conventions, there's so many artists supplying or sometimes even
vendors that they have to have like a lot of system.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah. But but but the thing is, I think the
origin of it. I believe the origin of it is
because it used to be free. Yeah, because it was
supposed to be a community thing. This is before conventions
became you know, I guess big money at this point,
because I mean, at this at this point, even if
it is a quote unquote comic on, it really is
(06:44):
more of a pop culture bonanza. Yeah. Pop culture is
definitely the best way to put it. Uh, it's it's
definitely a different beast. So you started an Artists Sally,
You did your thing whatever, blah blah blah, what okay,
And I'm going to get to the schedule and again,
but what like, how do you know when you're ready
(07:05):
to go to booths? Because we started an Artists Sally.
One of our first things we did together, which was
it was a booth for me in Mega con. Yeah,
and you slept, remember you slept under the booth because
you know, I think we spoke about this because you
had to, you were going to compete and in a
costume contest. But you you arranged my booth and you
made it viable, right, right, And we were doing artists
(07:28):
Sally booths for a while. But I think we had
we had the benefit of working with at the time,
there were a super con right, and because you know,
we we'd work and we'd do a lot of design stuff,
art stuff, cover stuff, designed created their mascot and as
(07:52):
a result, we'd get a booth, a probo booth, right,
And we got the feel of what booths were like,
and we kind of figured out that, okay, you know,
let's go to have a corner in lines in lines
aren't great, but if you if you know what you're doing,
you can still you know, utilize that. But but a
corner is usually ideal. And with a corner, each of
(08:13):
us can kind of dominate the space. Yeah, right, But
the thing is, not every show is as as is
maybe as affordable, but so so what like, do you
remember what time it was when we just said, okay,
we're just gonna do booths for every kind of show.
(08:33):
It's hard to say.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
I would definitely, I feel like the show that we
would do in Dallas was like probably a big contributor
to that.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, I mean even though the first year was like
kind of rough or whatever, I think it was even
like after that, past a certain point, we just realized
we had like outgrown it.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
No, and that's a good point. You mentioned Dallas, and
it kind of made it all the memory kind of
wash over because we were in Dallas. We're in artists, Sally.
It's the first time doing the show. I remember I
found the show online. It was Dallas Comic on right.
It was like the first year it was purchased by
fanex but so it wasn't Dallas Fanexpo yet, And I
was like, hey, we should do this show. I don't
(09:16):
know why, Let's go to Dallas. Because that was also
another thing peering into doing show stuff is we wanted
to like just see places we wanted to travel to.
So we're like, oh, that might be a good place
to do a show. Mind you that might you know, financially,
that might not be the smartest way to depending on
your situation, might not be the smartest way to do
a show a month. But thankfully we were established enough
(09:41):
with what we were doing that week, we could look
at it that way. So we said, look, let's do
this show. And we're like, just be cautious, because we're
very cautious back then, like let's let's let's just get
an artist. Sally well, that was all we're gonna get.
We weren't gonna and we got artists, but we ended
up getting And this is another thing when artists that
(10:03):
if you're new to a thing, you have you know you,
and you don't have necessarily a salesperson to talk to,
you're kind of stuck with whatever they give you sometimes,
you know what I mean. And we were stuck in
the middle of this show in a town we've never
been in. We were next to these people that had
Pachinko machines and these really cool people that were doing
like a zombie training thing, like survival training thing, and yeah,
(10:30):
I mean I think we I'm going to tell them
the number just because to give you a night. I
think we made negative fifty or plus fifty dollars.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I think it was like plus fifty. Yeah, and that
was like by the skin of our.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Ties, yes, and we had to lead. And because we
were so cautious, we booked our flight to leave the
Sunday night. Oh yeah, and the flight.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Don't do that, yeah, right, don't do that to yourself.
It's like it's so worth it to just spend the
extra money. And I mean I say that now because
we can do it.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
But like it was really rough.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
It was like we we had to like we.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Left early because of and then the show ended at six,
but we didn't know what traffic was, so we had.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
To back everything up and just like just to pack
up the booth.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Split. Yeah, it was. It was because it's because the
thing is, normally we'd go to a show on a Sunday,
you know, so we we we go up with four bags,
right we you know, if we set up, we leave
the show floor on set up day with one bag,
go to our hotel. So on tierdown day, we'll have
three bags at the booth. Right. So at this point,
(11:39):
you know, you know, think of this, Now we have
to leave from this dollar show. And so we we
we had to you know, kind of come back to
the show that morning with all our bags. So we
had the four bags and we had to tier Dome
pack up everything. And I think we started packing up
like maybe four you know, meaning we lost money because
(12:00):
we're not selling the people. And then we got off
that place by like six I can't remember specifically, but anyway, Yeah,
that was that was so stressful. We already weren't making
a ton of money, but the thing is this and
doing that show, and this is advice for anybody doing
any kind of business. We're like, wow, this is all
(12:23):
we made, even if it was negative fifty. I think
the thing we noticed is that we made money. Yeah,
well the problem was location and the problem was in
experience in that environment. And we're like, Okay, you know,
we're doing this again. Like that might have seemed like
a thing we're like, no, never doing this again, but
we're no, we're doing this again because the loss out
(12:44):
of losses at a show or not doing well at
a show, can also teach you a lot more than
if you make money. And I think that, you know,
that was definitely one of those situations where we're like, okay,
and next year we got a bigger booth, especially since
we got a booth in a better in a premium section. Yeah,
we just paid the money because we're like, the reason
(13:06):
why we didn't make as much money is because nobody
could find us and we've never been there, so they
don't know us. Even if we advertising, they don't know us.
They don't know who we are. We've never been in
that part of the country yet. And it was great,
you know what I mean. So that's that's a good
example of I think, and like you're saying that, at
(13:26):
that point, we just started just getting bigger booths and
it just made sense.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
So it's like, the amount of like real estate that
you have should be proportional to the amount of money
that you're making.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
The money that you're making, and willingness, the will to
actually work the booth, if that's fair, because the larger
the booth is, the more work. That's true, you know,
if you don't like this goes back to what we
say about help. The fact that we have each other's
backs helps, and we have people that you're wonderful, people
that work with us that will have our backs. Ryan
(13:58):
is a collie of ours, wonderful dude. Met him in
because of Dallas. He's one of our customers and he's
been with us since well maybe the second or third year.
Maybe the third year he got a commission of his
girlfriend at the time. He's a big fan of of
the character death from Sandman and would always get a
(14:23):
lot of drawings of that character and he just started,
you know, coming by and helping and honestly, you know,
it's it goes back to that thing where you know,
you this is a very great environment to build relationships
and meet new people and you know, just just kind
of expand your horizons.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
But yeah, not not always, but you'll usually get back
the energy that you put out.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
It's true. True, we we always enjoyed being there at
the time, but yeah, that was that was our growth
from you know, art sality to to booths that thank
you for click, you know, having that light bulb click
on in my head. Though, I'm going to ask you
this though, so in you know, doing the artist ali
(15:13):
to t booth thing and even trying to plan out
monthly like do you think I know you're saying maybe
once a month is a good pace. Would you say
once a month? Once a month in terms of local
shows like once a month. I mean, I know this
is tricky because you have to factor in somebody's finances,
(15:35):
but let's just say, what do you think is ideal?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I mean, if you can I like also too, I
assume that like this isn't necessarily going to suddenly shift
into somebody's like day job. Like I feel like back
when we even started this, like we were not doing
like one show a month. It was definitely like maybe
like one every two months or something like that, and
(16:00):
you know, so like we'd have like more time to
plan and like figure stuff out. So I feel like,
even if you're like even on track with that, I
think that's a pretty good pace. And then like also too,
there are things that like aren't even necessarily quote unquote
like shows. Like there might be like a one day
like pop up event at like your local farmers market
(16:21):
and they're like looking for artists or something like that.
So you know, just stuff like that. I feel like
you can also kind of like uh segue.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Into lateral thinking, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Segue into and I feel like there are like a
lot of opportunities like that, because like there are certain
places where they want to build community and.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yeah, and that's a great point you made, because we
used to do the Miami Book Fair, and the only
reason it's because you know, it's just we have other
things going on at that time though, But we used
to do that and it was a great show. We
made some of our best contacts there. And I'll go
back to it, like what you're saying about thinking Latto
laterally in terms of way exhibit, Yeah, doing an event
(17:02):
a month doesn't have to be a convention like she's saying,
farmers market, whatever, a book fair, even library shows. That's
a great way to get into community events. Library show, right,
a small library show about what I can't remember years ago.
That's where you know, colleague Joel Joel and myself we
you know, we we met corporate clients there like they saw,
(17:25):
you know, you know, our rinkingdink little art and and
mind you this art has nothing to do with food,
maybe the opposite of food. And uh, this person give
well actually it was just me there, I guess, but
he gave me the his his business card and said, hey,
uh you know, would you mind if I if my
(17:48):
marketing people got in contact with you on Monday. I
just thought it was a joke, you know, I saw
the name and the company there, Okay, And that's what
happened on the Monday, and they became a client. So
very very very fascinating. What can happen when you just
think outside the box, Like there's that that event we
(18:08):
did for the charity organization where we were doing caricatures
for two hours. And this is this goes to how
we just love to do these crazy things. Two hours
we did. We drew We each drew sixty plus kids
in two hours, right, and it was a free charity thing.
(18:28):
I forgot how we were supposed to get paid initially. Anyway,
the event ended up giving us money. Like you're like, no, no,
you guys deserves for what you just did. And you know,
you know, it's just different, different, different ways in which
you can just kind of expand your your your reach
in terms of whatever it is you're trying to do
(18:49):
in the art world.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, so I mean, like it's good to keep your
mind open because especially like at like the smaller events
as well, the connections that you made will probably be
more personal. For one.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Yeah, just like Quato says, open your mind. It was
his voice, like that was it deeper from Total Recall
open you know the guy.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Okay, no, I know who you're talking about, but yeah,
I couldn't tell you. I think I've seen Total Recall
like once.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
So for those of you who don't know what I'm
talking about, Google Quato from Total recall, this is not
for you kids. Open your mind so the thing that
you're going to see that image kept saying, open your
mind to I don't know, Sourtz Nigger's character Quaid right
or something like that. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, man, just
(19:40):
just do different things, you know, challenge yourself. You might
have fun, and you might need some interesting people. Like
I said, some of our biggest clients, like we used
to do the thing at the movie theater. Yeah, met
some big car like my Our biggest clients we've met
have been at non convention shows, that's true. Biggest then clients,
(20:00):
Like it's very fascinating because it's just people that were
just wandering around because a lot of times they're like, oh,
what's this and they just showed up. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
People love the spectacle of just like events and that
sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
So yeah, and you know, you can find art lovers
almost anywhere, that's true, and you can convert some people
into art lovers, you know what I mean. And even
past that, you know, outside of the selfish aims, you
might inspire somebody, you know what I mean, Like, you know,
there could be kids or an adult there that says,
oh man, I could have been doing this too, you
(20:36):
know what I mean, even though don't confuse that with
that situation where we're at a booth and a parent
or a grown person just saying to another grown person
saying stuff like oh, you can do that, or it's like, oh,
my friend can do that, and it's like, well but
they're not, so I mean my k could do that.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Yeah, it's like, well good luck with that. I wish
I'm the best. But it's like, well, you know, or
but I don't mean when they say it, just say
when they say it implying that, well, then it's not
worth my money. Yeah, it's like, well, you're saying that
whatever your kid does won't be worth money either, or
your friend. Like literally like think about what you're doing guys.
(21:20):
So you know, good luck when you're making a starving
artist joke, you probably weren't starving them. So do you
have any other thoughts on shows and scheduling? I know
you have, you had some pretty good points.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like the biggest thing is
just like staying flexible because like also too, shows kind
of come and go like all the time, Like especially
I feel like ever since the pandemic, like the dates
have been topsy turvy, so like I feel like everything
used to have a more regular schedule and then these
days it's kind of just like anything goes. Yes, you know, yeah,
(22:01):
just remaining flexible, I think, and you know, keeping an
ear to the ground would definitely help.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Yeah, it's true. Most people you talk to make sure
you at shows stay in touch. And you know, if hey,
if you can get to know a promoter or two,
that's good too, you know what I mean. Not necessarily
for free booths, that's not the point, but you know,
they can kind.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Of in a relationship with them. It's helpful, yeah, because
they'll give you recommendations or like advice to.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Tell you where to warn you. They can warn you
off of things that aren't work because you know they
they might not all know each well, they know each
other in certain ways, but they might not know know
each other. But there's always information traveling, and who knows,
there's nothing wrong with hopefully being on the receiving end
of some of that information, right And with that, if
(22:50):
you've educated and you've dropped some knowledge.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
You can listen to us on all podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
You can find us that payperlab Studios on Instagram, or
paper lab studios dot com, or just drop us a
line at design at paper lab studios dot com.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And support us on Patreon at paper lab Studios. Thank
you for listening to paper
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Lab podcast A Mango Music Turn that Music Up p
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.