P&S ModCast 439 - Wristbreaker Handcannons - Primary & Secondary Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All on. Let's see if this works.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
As matter of fact, everyone watching right now is probably
I can't say that for a fact, but we are live.
I guess I could say my normal opening stuff. Hey everyone,
it's podcast time, episode four thirty nine.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
We're going to be talking.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
About wrist breaker, hand cannons. I had other titles like
big stupid, big bores or something like that.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Today's date August twenty six, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
This is kind of a follow on with our forty
five cult episode, which I absolutely loved. It was such
a cool discussion talking about things. Yeah, as I was
just telling Jason and we said in a chat earlier,
forty five, Colt wasn't even on my radar until these
guys started talking about this. And then they started going
even further and further talking about other big boards stuff,

(00:49):
and I thought, we're gonna have a We're gonna have
a repeat of that forty five cold episode essentially talking
about all the other all the other options, and as
per the norm, this is so outside my normal knowledge base.
I'm really looking forward to this because you guys have

(01:09):
experience with this. You guys have hunted, reloaded the whole
nine yards. This is just going to be a cool
episode because for me, everything I own up until recently
has a practical purpose, and I'm not a hunter, so
this is going to be an opportunity for me to
learn some new aspects. Now, I do need to have

(01:33):
that warning that I said at the beginning of the
forty five Coult episode, and that is to you listening
or viewing or watching, big warning to you. By listening
to this, there's a good possibility you may log onto Gunbroker,
you might go on to Ellipsy's, you might go on
to a bunch of different other places because you're going
to start thinking about this and going ooh, I want

(01:55):
one of these, like many of us did with a
forty five Colt episode. So be warned you might wind
up on an auction or have something ordered in some
big boar caliber. And so basically when I say with
the big bore calibers, I'm talking about revolvers primarily. So

(02:15):
for you, do you guys consider forty four mag to
be in that or is that at the lowest level
of what you'd consider to be big bore?

Speaker 4 (02:25):
I consider it in there when you loaded properly, Okay,
think of the traditional two hundred and forty grain type
bullet at your traditional thirteen.

Speaker 5 (02:35):
Fifty type velocity, I would say it's in that transition area.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
But when you start talking to three hundred grain plus loads,
I think the forty four magnums a whole different animal.
And with some loads you really are really pushing four
fifty four casolballistics. We start talking about the three hundred
and forty grain type stuff, So I do I personally
count forty four magnum in there.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
So Jason, tell us about yourself.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
So I'm Jason Kosner, Vice president Lipsies. I do all
the product development, so I do all the special makeups
and exclusives and special projects and which is pretty fun
deal deal to do.

Speaker 5 (03:13):
So we uh.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
You know, we've got a lot of different new guns
coming out and had a bunch of a lot of
big boar revolvers. That's that's one of our fortes. We uh.
I've been a I've been a big borehand gunner pretty
much my whole life. The second gun I ever bought
when I was sixteen was a was a Ruver black
Hawk and forty.

Speaker 5 (03:30):
One magnum had to be the weird guy.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
They got a forty one at the forty four you know, so,
but uh so that the degeneracy started quite early.

Speaker 5 (03:39):
But uh yeah, I mean we that was it. We
we we shot big boar handguns hunted with them.

Speaker 4 (03:45):
I just got back from Africa with one of my
uh one of my teenage sons and we we hand
gun hunted for two weeks and shot a lot of
stuff with forty four magnums and forty rugers and uh
you had a good time. So that's kind of really
you know, when it comes to the gun business, ob Slee,
Polymer Striker fired guns and Ruber ten twenty twos, those
pay the bills and that's what you know, the majority

(04:07):
of the sales are. But when really when you talk
about the things that get people excited and with me
excited is when we do a single action in forty
Ruger Disily type project or a or a flat top
forty five colds or something like that. That's that's the
kind of stuff that gets me pumped up. And it's
really cool seeing this resurgence and younger guys.

Speaker 5 (04:27):
Getting in this. It's funny.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
We we've got about fifty almost sixty sales reps in
our office and a lot of them are young guys
we hire, you know, and all of them, you know,
they come in, Yeah, I know my guns I hunt
and they realize about two weeks in that they know
about maybe the Remington seven hundred that they deer hunt with,
and they're eight seventy and a couple of pistols and
they're like, oh, come to him two weeks ago. Man,
I don't know a shit about the guns, you know,
and real quick, and it's funny.

Speaker 5 (04:50):
So what are you into?

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (04:51):
You know, man, I want to get.

Speaker 4 (04:52):
This this you know, MPX subgun and this car and
all that stuff.

Speaker 5 (04:56):
That's cool. I said, in about two years.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
You're gonna be asking me about single action revolvers and
Ruder number one rifles and you're all they always laugh,
you know whatever. And sure enough, now those guys they
don't care about ars and that stuff. They're all into
lever guns, they're all into single shot rifles. They're all
into big bore revolvers. So it's, uh, well, my work
is done, so that's all good. But anyways, that's what
we do, and uh, that's that's really my passion and

(05:20):
what I enjoy.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
So and that is why you're here.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Most of the most of the people I know locally,
if they have anything that would be deemed big bore,
it's they take it out to the rain, shoot it
a couple times. Yeah, that's an awesome, awesome kick. That's
about it. Then you guys come in and talk about
the actual applications where we've got guys here that hunt
in Africa.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah so, and actually it's this that's where we buy
our guns. When that guy takes it out and shoots
it one time and takes it and yeahs it for
fifty seven.

Speaker 5 (05:51):
That's right. That's right.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, so John, Yeah, your background, Oh yep.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
I was in the Army for about sixteen years, fifteen
fifteen and some change. I round up, worked at mad
Pole for a number of years on the product development side,
and work at a tech company that's on Matt's set
right now, Ace Virtual shooting running products over there, learning
how startups and tech works, and I love big more revolvers.

(06:24):
Those things were all my day job. This is what
I do for fun. For me, I kind of framed
out tonight at the context of starting with the five
shop forty five colt, but basically stuff that's hard to
buy in stores, although it is getting easier, and there's
some good options out there. So I'm excited to talk

(06:44):
about like what it used to take to convert these
things and how it came about and how much work
went into it and why it cost so much to
do it, because we're unfortunately losing those guys to unfortunately
passing away or retiring of old age right now. And man,
there's it's factory guns luckily are coming along, but conversions, man,

(07:08):
it's not what it used to be. So excited to
talk about the big ones.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
And I said it last episode where where we were
talking about forty five Colt, I had no idea how
much of a revolver and big boor guy you were.
And to find this out and then to hear you
talk about it and hear that passion, it's just so cool.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
Yeah, we can only look at so many blocks of them. Yes,
and night vision and ars and yeah yeah no man,
it's I'll be in bed before the sun goes down.
So just spends on how long this thing grounds up. Yeah,
night vision.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Brian Brian or the Why from Americ from American Fighting
Revolver dot com, former cop, former mil guy. I'm like
a single action addict. I feel like I'm in a meeting,

(08:07):
Like I have to go to meetings. Now you do.
But my first first experience with like a big bore
handgun was an eight and three eight inch Model twenty nine.
That hammer spurred me right here when I was three,
So that was my first introduction to quasi big bore revolvers.

(08:27):
And then when I got a little older, I had
a dan Wesson forty four mag six inch barreled forty
four mag from the time I was nine until I
was about seventeen, and then I got on that Smith
for sixty XVR pretty early. And then I started reading
up like on four to fifty four cassole and then

(08:50):
Company out of Baton Rouge started carrying this five shot
five and a half inch Bisley four fifty four cassoles.
That was kind of my next one. And then now
I kind of got the gamut, but a lot of
forty five, a lot of forty four magnum and forty
one magnum. I don't know if you guys consider that

(09:10):
big bore, but it's kind of the uh happy medium,
so to speak.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
So cool.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
And lastly, we have Caleb, so I was doing so.

Speaker 6 (09:27):
I'm Caleb a part time Air Force guy, full time
revolver degenerates. I actually went back and I looked through
the unpublished archives of my old blog, and the first
big bore revolver that I have a official record of
me owning was I bought a fifty eight Remington black

(09:49):
powder gun and a cursed converter to convert that sun
bitch to forty five cold and shot at so much
that I stretched to the frame and blew the gun up, which,
wh I'm looking back on it now, that's a pattern
that I ended up repeating over for the rest of

(10:09):
my career. But I actually I got away from big
boar guns for quite some time, just because I went
through that phase that I feel like everybody goes through
where they think that you should, you know, have two
identical glock nineteens with weapon mounted lights and rmrs and
two identical ars with you know, mid length gas systems

(10:32):
and a cogs or whatever the hot optic was at
the time. And I always kept shooting revolvers, but it
was a long time before I got back into big bores,
and when I did a couple of years ago, I
got bit pretty hard and I started shooting a lot
of forty five and a lot of forty four Magnum

(10:54):
and then forty four Special, to the point that I
took a six inch forty four mag to Africa and
hunted Plane's game with it and had some really really
great opportunities to do things with that gun that would
surprise the sort of people who bought a Model twenty
nine because of Dirty Harry and shoot it twice a year, right,
Like to really kind of get what's really been fun

(11:17):
for me in the last couple of years now has
been getting into these guns and pushing their capabilities just
with factory you know, like what do we have coming
out of the factories, right, Like, factory forty four magnum
is so much better than it was twenty years ago
in terms of bullet selection, powder quality, primers, all of
this other stuff. So yeah, it's been a lot of fun,

(11:38):
and I love it so much that I'm going back
to Africa in next year. I'm doing a bear hunt
with that same gun this year, and hopefully the day
after tomorrow I'm gonna finally catch this wild fog I've
been staring at on my buddy's game cameras for like
two months.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
So before we really get into the meat and potatoes
of these big boares, these risk breakers, whatever. There is
a good possibility, similar to the forty five Colt episode,
which was live, YouTube may wind up taking this episode down.
Now with this in mind, it will be back up.
It will just need some slight editing. It just won't

(12:23):
be live. If you want to watch these live, go
to patreon dot com, slash Primer and secondary you get
access to the live stuff. Otherwise, hopefully this this is
under the radar and we're going to be showing guns
and stuff because we're not selling anything.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
We're not shooting anything.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
We're just I.

Speaker 6 (12:44):
Would like people, I believe both Jason and I would
very much like people to buy things.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
But we're not actively saying this is on sale right now.
Fair but yeah, there is a possibility YouTube may wind
up killing the feed. That being said, if they do that,
then we're just going to go even further into well
then maybe we will start selling thunt things live.

Speaker 3 (13:08):
For the patron support supporter.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
So we already we talked a little about about forty four.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
I remember what was it, ten twenty years ago? Four
or five.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
Four seemed to be the only big boar thing that
I was familiar with How did yeah, how how did
things develop? What did Who were the people behind this
that said, you know what.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
Well, factory guns for one for four fifty four became,
you know, more common with the Freedom Arms guns and
nineteen eighty three the FA eighty three. I believe this
guy right here. It's a little bit nearer. But see
if they cut YouTube so I mean, and it's uh,

(13:53):
forty five colt stretched out twenty twenty foul and you're
sorry two hundred somewhere around there. I got the numbers,
but stretched out forty five cold to a one point
three to eighty three case length and gassed it up
and built a gun around it that you can still

(14:14):
buy pretty much that same gun today. They haven't changed
too much. So four fifty four came on the map.
All the other bigger than forty five colts, for the
most part, at that time were wildcats as far as
I know. When you got into five hundred lineball based
on the three forty eight win mag and then couldn't
get three forty eight win mag brass anymore, so John

(14:36):
Linball started turning down case rems and cutting down cases
and made four to seventy five. Then it didn't. You know,
Jason probably knows better than anybody. But the Ruger made
the four eighty Ruger, which is a great cartridge. Some
people say it's four to seventy five special, it's not.
It's it's way close. You don't need one versus the other.

(14:58):
Then the black Hawk, I know there was a guy
in the comments and said these are his hens teeth.
Uh so here's one, the six inch sitting right here. Yeah,
factory super six inch gun six or six and a
half Jason six six yep. And you know that m O.
Like I can go in big box stores around here

(15:20):
and find four eighty Ruger AMMO very regular and four
fifty four now and then I think it probably went
mainstream for most people, and they started seeing the Smith
and Wesson X frames, the five hundred Smith and Wesson
Great Cartridge X frames a little much for me. I
like that cartridge and other guns. And then the four

(15:41):
sixty that Brian mentioned, which is a about a third
of an inch longer than a four to fifty four
casole and it'll push uh what five hundred? What do
they do with four four forty grain? And uh, I
don't know. I don't shoot for sixty. But I mean

(16:01):
you're you're basically mirroring African Safari cartridges in weight and
velocity out of that.

Speaker 5 (16:07):
Thing you basically you basically have at a handgun.

Speaker 6 (16:10):
Yeah, oh geez, well that's it's actually beats. Like when
you start getting into longer barrel lengths, you actually start
getting better terminal ballistics from a four to sixty. And
I love the forty five seventy like barn On, my
favorite lever gun cartridge. But we so we towards USA,

(16:31):
we produce a ten inch for sixty magnum, right, So
it's this giant space gun looking thing. My boss Brett
actually used one to take a Cape Buffalo in Mozambique.
He was using the the Buffalo board dangerous game loads,
which is you know it's a hard cast bullet going
mock fuck and you know it'll go through a tractor

(16:53):
long ways.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
He shot at.

Speaker 6 (16:58):
Buffalo five times with that, by the way, and it
was if you if you've never heard Brett tell this story,
I strongly encourage you to to get him to tell
the story because it makes the hair on your arm
stand up.

Speaker 5 (17:08):
It was like it was like under ten yards too.

Speaker 6 (17:10):
It was, yeah, I mean, it was the contact distance
that he shot this thing at. But the so the
four sixty is is it's an insane cartridge in what
you can do with it, and it is actually it
can be loaded hotter than like if you okay, if
you have two people doing like wildcatloads right, like, you

(17:33):
can wildcat a forty five seventy hotter, yes, but you
can get factory loaded for sixty that is actually going
to be hotter than a lot of factory loaded forty
five to seventy. And when you build a gun with
four sixty in mind, like the Raging Hunter that we
built specifically for it, like the original X frames, you
can get a really really capable gun that you can

(17:56):
use for everything from a Cape buffalo all the way
down onto a little adybitd white tailed deer with a
forty five colt round, you know. And it's I think
it's really cool. I have a four sixty in my
closet right now that I am. When I go to
Africa next year, I'm not taking any rifles. I'm going
to take the four sixty and I'm going to take
the forty four mag and the pH is going to

(18:19):
look at me like I just stepped.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
Off the Mars.

Speaker 5 (18:22):
They will trust me.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 6 (18:25):
They looked at me like that when I showed up
with the forty four mag like you want to shoot
a wildebeest for that? I'm like, yeah, wouldn't this be
rad in that.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
Four to sixty? You can shoot forty five what auto
rim forty five, forty five COLT four fifty four rims
sixty of the same gun automagons, dicey, But it'll come
out yeah, auto rooms, dicey.

Speaker 6 (18:49):
That's the only one I actually wouldn't recommend because the
bullet diameter is slightly different and while jumping so much
motherfucking freeboard before it gets to the forcing cone. Like
that's the one where it's a little for me. But
like I've shot forty five cold, so I've shot four
fifty four cassuos, I've shot the full power four sixties

(19:09):
out of it, and it's it is, I mean, it
is hilarious when you go from a four to sixty
and like, if you really want to like mess with somebody,
you give them, Uh, once you're sure, once you're once
you're shirt, We're not going to double the gun, So
I don't do it. In the mean way to do
it would be to give them like a forty five cold,
a four to fifty four, and then a four sixty.

(19:31):
I do it in the reverse order once I'm sure
they're not gonna they can actually hold on to it,
and then they go pup boom wow and they can
do that bit. But they're like, what was that? Like, Oh,
you do have a flinche okay.

Speaker 4 (19:42):
Yeah, and the crazy thing is that blip load. We'll
punch both shoulders on a deer and eggs. Oh yeah,
you really need the other stuff anyways.

Speaker 6 (19:50):
Yeah, because it's not like it's a you could put
you know, a freaking two hundred and thirty grain forty
five colds that's going nine hundred and fifty feet per second.
That would be unplay. Wasn't to shoot out of like
a cult single action or something like that in that
gun in your cycle?

Speaker 5 (20:06):
Yeah nothing, Matt.

Speaker 4 (20:07):
I mean part of what your original thing about four
fifty four and why it was so popular one it
was probably the first of the real big boares to
get Samy speck. And we know the industry is not
going to chamber or something that's not a Samy spec round,
and so that was the reason why when the four
to fifty four became samm ead and then Ruger was
the first one to jump on board with a super Redhawk,

(20:28):
their double action gun, and so that all of a
sudden allowed that cartige to be accessible at a price
point that was easily of the gateway to get in,
and I think tourists jumped in on it actually pretty
early too, And so that allowed those that cartis to
really kind of take off and become the default big boar,
bigger than the forty four Magnum that somebody didn't have

(20:50):
to go try to source a custom gun and or
handload because there was readily industry got behind it as
far as ammunition availability, and so that really helped. And
then I think the by product of that also it
did increase the popularity the forty five Cold because much
like the thirty two HNR has kind of kind of
dragged up because of three twenty seven Federal, people realize, man,

(21:13):
this subload is actually pretty good, and forty five Cold
got a whole new breath of life because people will
shooting him in four fifty fours. And so I then
you had John Linball doing his five shot guns and everything.
But there's never been a Sammy specification.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
For a here you go for a twenty seven, yeah, here.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
Plus forty, So the fifty four was kind of the
easy button.

Speaker 5 (21:37):
When I was on that trip, Bob Baker.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
Who is the president of Freedom Arms, owner of FETO Arms,
he was there, and Bob's one of the most accomplished
handgun hunters I know, and that's all he husted with
is four fifty four's and stuff, and he he killed
everything court, including Kate Buffalo, with the four to fifty four,
And you know, as far as a true hunting round,
I don't think the four to fifty four can be
equaled because what it does do it gives you a

(22:04):
heavy bullet at with velocity, which most of the big
boards is a compromise you can go, like with a
five hundred line ball, for example, it's a super heavy bullet.
You're talking four hundred and fifty to five hundred and
twenty five grain bullets, but your maxing out about twelve
hundred pe per second, which honestly, for most normal use
is plenty.

Speaker 5 (22:23):
But if you really want to hunt at extended.

Speaker 4 (22:25):
Ranges and have more opportunities and flatnet trajectory, the four
to fifty four is shooting a three hundred to three
hundred and sixty grain bullet at fifteen to sixteen hundred
pe per second.

Speaker 5 (22:35):
It really does that, and it does it in a
package that, unlike.

Speaker 4 (22:38):
The X frame Smiths, you can actually carry around and
you know.

Speaker 5 (22:42):
And use on a belt or on a chess rig.

Speaker 4 (22:44):
So four to fifty four is really I kind of
equivalate it to three seventy five h and h in
the rifle world. It'll do anything, and it'll do at
a recoil level that most people can can master.

Speaker 5 (22:57):
If they're willing to put the time in.

Speaker 4 (22:58):
You know, four fifty four has a very brisk, fast recoil,
but it's not it's not going to hurt you like
a full power for seventy five line ball can or
you know, one of the X frames that in the
shorter lightweight barrel type come packages. So I do think
that four fifty four is a good way to get
in for somebody who's maybe thinking about this, because it's available,

(23:21):
you've got options.

Speaker 5 (23:23):
Taurus makes some.

Speaker 6 (23:28):
Jason, he said, and I know that I'm deeply amused
by the fact that he said Taurus and then his
connection jammed.

Speaker 4 (23:38):
Now, but the Origin Hunters are great guns. The super
Redhawk Riggers are great guns. The Freedom Arms obviously, the
Cadillacs of Revolvers and are busily uh single actions, even
though they've been hard to get lately, but we're working
on that.

Speaker 5 (23:53):
Those are a great gun. I mean, you're talking about
a gun.

Speaker 4 (23:55):
It's not super expensive, and they will shoot great and
you have a luxury of shooting forty five cold ten
all day.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
So one of the things that was brought up in
the forty five cold episode was how you were able
to get lower pressures with shorter barrels and exceed the
performance of a forty four mag is four fifty four
doing the same thing as well.

Speaker 5 (24:14):
The forty four runs at extremely high pressure.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
You're running about sixty five thousand psi, which is like
belt at magnum rifle cartrie stuff.

Speaker 5 (24:23):
So it's it.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
So when Dick Casol was originally working on this, you
know the first guns that he was he was doing
he was taking whole single action armies and putting hardened
five shot cylinders and his guns and wining them and
they were loading to some insane velocities.

Speaker 5 (24:40):
But the original concept was it was kind of coined
to forty five swift concept, and.

Speaker 4 (24:45):
That concept is they were thinking at the time, let's
take a two and twenty five grand bullet.

Speaker 5 (24:51):
And try to make two thousand feet per second. That
was kind of the original goal, and they realized real.

Speaker 4 (24:56):
Soon that that was not their proper way to do
this because those bullets have such low sectional density that
they don't work on game they come apart. They actually
lose velocity very fast, much like low BC rifle bullets
do compared to sixty five cret more or something like that.
So they shifted gears and started going heavier bullets, and
at that time there was no three hundred grain forty

(25:19):
five cold bullets, so they were taking forty five seventy
bullets that that are four or five eight diameter and
swaging them down to four or five two and making
forty five cold bullets out of forty five seventy bullet
I mean, really fly by the seat of your pants
site stuff. And so they worked through it and finally
realized that those heavier bullets have so much more dwell

(25:40):
time in the case that that powder has time to
build pressure. So they were noticing that they could get
sixteen hundred feet per second out of a three hundred
grain bullet, and they were only getting about eighteen hundred
pe per second out of a two hundred grain bullet,
so it was way more efficient to shoot the heavies.
Plus the bullets would actually perform down range when you
hit something, so they kind of shift.

Speaker 5 (26:00):
The gears to that.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
And then when they ended up doing the eighty three
of four fifty four, it was kind of game on
at that point, and that really opened the door for
all this other stuff with the four ady ruger and
you know, Lineball I think was in eighty five is
when Ross Seifert did the article on the on the
first line Ball gun, which was a Saville. I've actually
seen that gun. It's pretty cool gun, and uh, you know,

(26:24):
and that really blew up the changed John Lomball's life.
He never, I don't think, he never not had gun
orders that he couldn't fill from that time and and
created quite the stir where forty four magnet now all of.

Speaker 5 (26:37):
A sudden wasn't a big deal. And uh, you know
the four.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
Eighty ruger that like John kind of alluded to earlier,
Really that cartridge, in my opinion, is the best of
the big bores above forty four magnum because it's shootable.
It does to that at reasonable pressures. And everybody I
know who shoots four seventy five line balls basically shoots

(27:02):
their their loads are tailored to four eighty ruber velocities.
And so now you can do it without having the
longer case capacity. It's much more affordable to find ammunition
and everything else. So that four hundred grain bullet at
twelve hundred feet per second formula that almost all the
four seventy five line ball guys use is out of
the box for eighty ruger ballistics, and it works really,

(27:25):
really well.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Except Shane John, he's all about the full bill except James.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
Yeah, yeah, the fenty five line ball. You basically are
getting about thirteen thirteen.

Speaker 5 (27:35):
Fifty with that four hundred grand bullet.

Speaker 4 (27:37):
But I'll tell you that, and John will tell you
because I know he show you suit small. The difference
between a four hundred grain er at twelve hundred and
thirteen fifty is night and day. That extra hundred per
second goes from being like I can shoot this gun
pretty much, you know, as much as I want in
an afternoon to about two cylinders, and I got to
put it down.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yep.

Speaker 6 (27:55):
I notice that extra one hundred and fifty feet per
second when you're shooting at friggin through fifty seven like
you go from And this is one of the things
people when you talk about big especially revolver cartridges and
big bores, but also you know, even your really any
magnum is that kind of jump in velocity is like

(28:16):
I mean, it's the difference I was shooting today. I
had one of our three fifty seven three inch guns,
and I was shooting the Hornity Critical Defense load out
of it, right, which is a really great three fifty
seven magnum load one hundred thirty five grains at a
nominal like I want to say, like eleven hundred feet
per second, so it's basically like a nine mil plus
P And then I went over and shot a Federal

(28:36):
one twenty five that's going you know, I don't know,
thirteen fifty or something like that, and it was and
it went from a, Hey, this has recoil, but I
can manage it too. I'm firing a fucking flash bang
in front of my face, and I would really like
to not do this for more than a couple of rounds.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
Oh man, Yeah, four sixty especially and four fifty four
quiet guns. If nothing else, Jesus.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Three fifty seven mag is my least favorite revolver cartridge
loaded to fullfilt loads because it's so inefficient. And for instance,
it's my favorite lever gun cartridge because you're getting all
the efficiency and powder burn out of it. Whereas you know,

(29:26):
like the load we did with High Desert, it's tailored
to be pretty efficient out of a revolver. So when
you start getting those extra one hundred, one hundred and
fifty one hundred and seventy five feet per second, you're
blowing so much potential energy into the gun and out
out the barrel that you're not getting in velocity that
it really becomes inefficient.

Speaker 6 (29:48):
And I'll say this because I don't have a sponsor
relationship with High Desert cartridge, but if you're listening to
this and you want a three fifty seven magnum load
that is actually shootable out of your three fifty seven magnums,
get the one hundred and fifty eight grain h high
doesn't cartridge XTP. That loaf is awesome. I was shooting
that today out of hey, well, this is live. I

(30:10):
can't say what I was shooting it out of. But anyway,
because not six, No, I think I think Brian has
the thing that I was shooting out of. Jason knows
what I was shooting it out of, but it doesn't
exist until next week. So but it's awesome. You guys
are going to love it. But yeah, no, And it
was just like I'm like, oh man, this is really
pleasant to shoot. So, but fifty seven is not a

(30:33):
big boar, but that is here there there's a question.
There was a thing way way back, Brian, did you say,
is forty one magnum a big boar?

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (30:43):
You were Jason, It was me as Brian. I would
say that forty one magnum is a big bore because
if you look at sort of the way that the
the Internet thinks of big bore cartridges, they start with
ten mil like people think of ten like, regardless of

(31:04):
whether or not ten mil is a legitimate big bore cartridge.
And that's the whole argument that you can have. The
way the internet sort of the way the consumer sort
of defines a big bore cartridge is would I take
this as a backup gun if I was going grizzly
hunting right, Like, I'm going to Alaska for a move
hunt or I'm going backpacking or whatever, what's the minimum

(31:26):
gun I'm going to take? And ninety percent of the
time that conversation starts with ten mil or forty four
magnum if you're in the revolver world. So yeah, I
would say a forty one mag because it is so
ballistically similar to a properly sam respec to ten mil
is in fact a big pore.

Speaker 4 (31:45):
Well, I think it's a big more, I think. And
again forty one magnum has two different personalities too, So
ten mil. Yeah, you take a two hundred and your
typical two one hundred and ten brain even the hunting load,
which is about a thirteen to fifty per second velocity,
that's great. But then you take a two sixty five
hard cast load and run it at thirteen fifty, which

(32:06):
one of the guys we hunted with did, and he
shot everything in Africa with that forty one magnum with
that load and crushed it.

Speaker 5 (32:15):
And the good thing about the forty one magnum you
do without the requil penalty. It's hey. So one hand
in the.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
Cartridge where usually I called bullshit when people say, oh
these almost politically, this one has way less requil for
whatever reason, the forty one. And I've got several forty
one magnums and I've shoot them, I've shot them a lot.
They that cartridge for whatever reason. I can shoot all
day long with the heaviest loads and it does not beat.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
You up at all.

Speaker 5 (32:40):
It is a great, great gateway to large board revolvers.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
But I wouldn't classify it as a risk working type,
a whole different category than the stuff that John's got
laid on his table over the rover.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
No, but the forty one, I think it comes down
to cartridge efficiency because when you load a longer bullet,
you're bridging the chambers, the forcing cone, you're getting all
the powder burn out of it. Whereas if you take
that same weight of bullet and make it a bigger diameter,
it's shorter, so you're getting less efficiency out of your

(33:17):
powder charge. And to me, I'm with you, it's it's
like the two thirty two forty grain stuff. Keeping that
at like twelve to thirteen hundred feet per second, I
don't notice the recoil, Like if I take a two
forty forty four mag do the same thing. And my
other theory is the diameter of the bullet grab and

(33:40):
rifling is directly proportional to the amount of recoil you
feel because it's putting that much torque on the inside
of the gun. Even though those those lands are like
five thousands each side, it's still it's like having a
bigger diameter more leverage over the actual gun.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
So we found that Brian, when we did the testing
on the four eighty. Ruber busily funny little story, so
one day when we did that project that was back
in twenty thirteen.

Speaker 5 (34:12):
We think put him on the market in fourteen, but Ruger.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
Had did the test that the four to fifty fours
came out first, they were done and Ruger did all
the testing and everything like that. When it came down,
they sent about six hundred rounds AMO down and we
shot him and everything, which at the time I was like, oh, man,
I don't know if I want shoot this think too much,
But it really wasn't that bad. So about a month
went by and I was like, hey, guys, where's the
four eighty. That's the one that really I'm excited about.

(34:36):
And we got the people asking about and they're like, man.

Speaker 5 (34:38):
I don't think we're going to do it. I'm like, well,
we're gonna do the four eighty.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
We gotta do it.

Speaker 4 (34:42):
He's like, our our te staff doesn't want to shoot
the endurance test that they're done. They had enough with
the four to fifty four, and so he said, if
you want this four eighty, you're gonna have to do it.
And I'm like, okay, Like, how about that'd be one day.
I don't know, about two weeks later, one of the
guys in the warehouse comes to them and says, hey, then,
because we don't carry Ammo, he says, are we any

(35:02):
AMMO business now?

Speaker 5 (35:03):
And I was like no. He goes, well, there's a
big pallet of AMMO in the back with your name
on it. And I'm like okay.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
So I go back there after lunch and there's six
thousand rounds of four eighty Ruber ambo with a little
card there from Mike Kweiffer at Ruger that says have
fun hope the ternce Tesk goes, well.

Speaker 6 (35:22):
It's like of possible passes.

Speaker 5 (35:25):
Yeah, so we're we're all in now.

Speaker 4 (35:26):
So he was to say we had a we had
a lot of fun at Lipsey's shooting four ready rugers
for the next two months. But what we learned was
that original gun was a six and a half inch
gun like John had.

Speaker 5 (35:37):
This is the four and five eight inch gun. And
we've done this as well, which this is my person
this is my favorite the bunch. But what we found is.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
These lighterweight, shorter barrel guns actually recoiled less than the
six and a half inch guns.

Speaker 5 (35:49):
And I think the reason why you take.

Speaker 4 (35:52):
A four ready ruger, I mean this is this is
one of the this is a four hundred grand projectile.
This gun's got this bullet has so much bearing surface
that when it's when it is going into that when
it is going through that barrel, I think the longer
it stays in there, I think the more it's got
to just it's just torquing that gun in your hand.

Speaker 5 (36:12):
So I think it's getting out of that barrel faster.
I think it's creating a.

Speaker 4 (36:15):
Less river equil impulse and uh and we've got enough
rounds through both of them to kind of have I
think a valid opinion on that. But that's the only
thing out to figure on was why that was the case.
I don't think you notice it so much on the
small board stuff. We start talking four hundred four and
twenty five grand bullets, that's a lot of lead going
through there.

Speaker 6 (36:36):
Yeah, with the uh that kind of back to the
forty one discussion. So I have zero trigger time on
forty one magnums. But there was I had a phase
where I was obsessed with the ten mil GP one hundreds,
and I believe so they still make the match champion
and then why they clapped three inch, But there was
a time that I believe it was a Lipsey's exclusive.

(36:58):
There's a five inch GP one hundred that was blued
in ten mil with wood grips.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
One.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
That gun was beautiful.

Speaker 6 (37:06):
That's one of the guns that when I acted when
I sold it because I needed to, like I don't know,
make a car payment or something. I regret getting rid
of that gun, but that gun was the only platform
where I've really ever been able to go all the
way up to like your buffalo bar kind of like
hot ten mili loads and like you really really notice

(37:29):
it in that five inch gun, but not like you
would in a glock twenty, right, Like not like you
would in some of the other you know, well, am
I a buffalo boor disintegratt at Block twenty.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
But it was such a.

Speaker 6 (37:42):
Good gun and I regret getting rid of it now
because I had it before I got bit by the
handgun hunting bunk, right like, because I look back on
it now and I'm like, I want to go shoot
a pig with that thing. Like there's so much that
I wanted that I could have done with that gun
that I was just like, dude, do you this is fun?
And I shot you know, you know, I shot you know,

(38:04):
I know, maybe a thousand rounds to do it, and
I'm like, okay, well, we'll let this one go. So
that is one that I definitely regret getting away. And
I also wish that rig's still made and that the
one used when I'm looking at on gun burker wasn't
fifteen hundred dollars.

Speaker 4 (38:18):
That's the way it happens, man. It's like he serve
to Peter al and Okay, well guess we'll just continue
these and then six months later they're going for scalper prices.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
Yeah, the ten guys that didn't buy one because I
thought they were available or all fighting for them on gunbrokers.

Speaker 6 (38:30):
Yeah, dude, the scalper prices. Things like One of my
earliest Big four guns that I owned was I was
youngly just buying guns because.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
They were cool.

Speaker 6 (38:39):
And in two thousand and seven, nineteen thirty seven, Brazilian
contract smith and Wesson's in forty five ACP were like
four hundred and fifty dollars and I bought one of
them and I was like, this gun's awesome. And I
sold it a few years later because I was very
young and very broke and needed the money for it.
And now I look at a Brazilian contract gup on

(39:00):
gun broker and it's, you know, twelve hundred bucks. I'm like, well,
I don't like this. I mean, that's mostly just inflation, right,
Like four hundred bucks in two thousand and seven is
probably twelve hundred dollars now, I don't know. I'm not
an economist.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
You know. The other one that we haven't talked about yet,
that like Deeta Gratitude and Magnum research for the BFR.
That's really the attainable way to get into these cartridges,
the UH and man, they are good guns, not just
for the money. They're good, No, us good, They're three guns.

Speaker 5 (39:32):
Yeah, that's good. Good, that's good comment.

Speaker 4 (39:34):
John the BFR stuff is really probably the underrated row
of the big boor single.

Speaker 5 (39:40):
And they do and the cool thing about them they
do do some non sam E spec rounds. They do
five jr. H.

Speaker 4 (39:45):
You can buy a life line ball, you can buy
a fourwenty five line ball from them. So they're willing
to do basically a production grade semi custom gun and
usually custom only cartridges, which is actually that's could come
at John.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
And they've got good rear sights on him, which we're
going to come by now.

Speaker 5 (40:04):
Oh yeah, working on that, John, We're working on.

Speaker 6 (40:09):
I mean, we're going to get to a point where,
even with revolvers, where most things I think are going
to be primarily set up for some kind of optical site,
right like when we switched from the Raging Bull pattern,
which was a very cool looking vent rebarrel to the
Raging Hunter pattern, which is got a pick rail on

(40:29):
it for that specific reason. I you know, and I
think everyone else is kind of kind of going to
get to the point where it's like, you know what,
more people want optics for these there's so many quality optics.
I just and as you know, I'm pretty sure I'm
the youngest person here despite all of that. I feel

(40:50):
some kind of way about putting a red dot on
a sigal action revolver. I'm like, hey, on like when,
which is funny because I don't feel that way about
a scope.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Put it a pistol scope on it.

Speaker 6 (41:01):
That seems reasonable, But like, I don't know, there's something
about me that doesn't want to see an ACRO in
a single action gun, and I I have no I
could explain that to you, because the ACRO is the
best fucking pistol optic out there, especially for wheel guns,
but I don't know.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
I couldn't.

Speaker 6 (41:18):
I couldn't tell you.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
Well, I'll tell you for optics on the real big
bore guns. These ultra dots are pretty tough. This this
one here has held up to a lot of hard
to believe that river stuff. And most of the guys
that we hunted with over there had these on them
and they were all shooting big boar stuff. That's one

(41:40):
good thing about the super red Hawk system that uses
the scope rings set with a screw screw ever, I
can pop this off. Actually brought a two power of
Lotolepold with me in rings already side presided in so
I could switch something out in case this wentwonkee or
if I pull it off, my iron sights are still
on the gun, so there's no place.

Speaker 6 (41:58):
Did you do a hand the only Africa hunt?

Speaker 5 (42:02):
Yes, yes, you did the thing.

Speaker 6 (42:07):
For your job that I'm literally planning to do just
for fun.

Speaker 5 (42:10):
Well I did it.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
Well, it was a cool thing. This was actually a
personal trip. This wasn't this was really yeah. I did
it for two years and uh my, one of my
teenage sons was with me and he he laid waste
a bunch of stuff with an eight and three eight
six twenty nine.

Speaker 5 (42:23):
It was awesome. It was it was awesome.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
It was meat.

Speaker 5 (42:27):
He killed a giraffe with this gun with this for
heady ruger and it's crazy.

Speaker 4 (42:32):
But uh yeah, I mean it's pretty much a box
stot gun. I did have it magna ported, and I.

Speaker 5 (42:37):
Really didn't need it.

Speaker 4 (42:38):
But I was talking to Tancouver, which is a mutual
friend of most of our us and and he commitced
me to do it because when I was really training
hard for this hunt, I was trying to range time
is just like everybody, it's hard to get out there
and especially shooting this stuff. He can't really go into
an indoor range go bang away twenty five yards. So
I had to go out to my camp or something
like that. And so I wanted to be able to

(43:01):
really spend a lot of time shooting. So this magneport
job really not to recoil this gun down to about
a forty one magnum. So it was super comfortable shooting.
I was shooting four hundred and ten grain hardcast do
it so well.

Speaker 6 (43:14):
That's been the huge benefit for me for porting because
you know, I have a competition shooting background, right, Like
a range session for me in it like it start
like one hundred and fifty rounds is like a light
day training for a match, training for something like that, right,
And John's familiar with those kind of roundcounts. It's like,
you know, we're training for you know, for matches, for

(43:35):
shooting people, for stuff like that. We're out there getting
knee deep in brass. And I started shooting the big
board guns. Seriously, I was so you know, because of
who I am as a person. When I found out
I was going to Africa, I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna
take these guns that I'm taking with me to Africa
and I'm going to train with them. Like I would
with a match, and I, you know, a box at

(43:57):
twenty forty four magnetes, I was like, oh, we're good,
We're we're set. We're gonna put this gun down for
a while and I'm gonna go shoot my pleasant gun,
which was the three Toho eight bolt gun by comparison,
and it wasn't. It's not that forty four magnum has
particularly punishing recoil. But I will say the load that
I like a lot, the two hundred twenty five grain

(44:18):
Barns loaded by Federal as their Barnes Expander. Barnes also
loads it the exact same muzzle velocity, the different The
only difference I can tell is that the Barnes load
is in brass cases and the Federal loads and nickel cases.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
That's the only difference. Cool by the Barns load.

Speaker 6 (44:36):
It's like two bucks cheaper a box, and that two
bucks makes difference, but that for whatever reason, that load
out of the Raging Hunter has a a muzzle blast
and crack that, even on an outdoor range, feels kind
of abusive, especially after you know, twenty forty rounds. I
shot eighteen rounds of it today and I was like Okay,

(45:01):
we're good all of that, and double action is a lot.
I'm starting to flinch.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
I should probably put that gun away. Yeah, not all
powders are created equal, you know, different different pressures to
get to that last probably something something true.

Speaker 6 (45:14):
Good ass grew. Thanks for putting that up there, Matt.

Speaker 5 (45:17):
That was that's great man. Double action, that's awesome.

Speaker 6 (45:21):
I was cheating. I had it on sticks, so it's
not like I was supported. I had it on Safari sticks.

Speaker 5 (45:27):
But still, that's all right. I'm gonna give you.

Speaker 4 (45:30):
I'm gonna give you a hack on for extending your
shooting sessions. Get a if you're gonna get like a
Ruver busy or something like that, get a three twenty
seven federal version of whatever gun you're gonna do, because
a three twenty seven federal magnums, drops and everything are
very similar to like a four to fifty four casle

(45:52):
or other rounds, so you can get that same trajectory.

Speaker 5 (45:58):
Deal. You still got. It's not like, you know, twenty two.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
Where you start shooting twenty two, you tend to get
sometimes get a little sloppy on the range because there
is no recoil to worry about anything else. But a
three twenty seven Federal Magnum loaded. One of these guns
is a great trainer to a four fifty four Sole
or a heavy forty four magnum or a fast forty
one magnum without the recoil a pilody.

Speaker 5 (46:18):
So that's just a little hack if you want to extend.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
I like that. My favorite Big Moore handgun is this
custom single six with a full sized busily grip frame
in the same site I have on my hunting gun.
It looks tiny. Get your reps in with a twenty
two or a thirty two. I mean, build it, build
a twenty two. Bobby Tyler built this one. I think
Dusty actually built it at Tyler Gunworks, and it's it's

(46:45):
the same sites I have on the guns that I
hunt with. You know, the weight's different, But to just
get a site picture and get reps in with the
same grip, you know, there's there's no comparison. Give it
twenty two what I thought about doing.

Speaker 6 (47:00):
And you know, because for the people who don't know,
I don't think I actually mentioned this is the top
of the show. I worked for Taurus. Anyway you work
for I know, right, it's the cool ass shirt what
I actually thought about doing is getting a raging Hunter
in three fifty seven and running thirty eights or something
out of that. Although with the forty four I have

(47:22):
had a lot of really good success with being like,
you know what, I want to extend this range session.
I'm going to go ahead and grab me forty four
specials because at you know, nominal handgun distances if I'm
running the what was it? Oh, the two loads that
I found were roughly ballistically matched. The two hundred and
twenty five grain Barns that I really really like has

(47:44):
as good enough for practice sessions, the same POI, point
of ain, point of impact as the one hundred and
eighty grain PMC special load, which is like a mouse
fart out of that gun compared to you know, the
full house forty four magnum.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Sure, sure, well, Jason, you mentioned you mentioned a name,
and I would just encourage people. Now he's my text
buddy with load data. But Jeff Tank Hoover, as far
as gun writers go, right now, he is keeping the
casting and handloading for the masses alive. Whereas you know,

(48:25):
there's a lot of great gun writers out there, but
I think Jeff or Tank is doing a great job
of you know, publishing these articles in American Handgunner that
kind of harken back to the Skeeter and Elmer. Oh
I used, you know, this bullet mold and this powder, you.

Speaker 4 (48:44):
Know, and he's a good storyteller while he's doing fantastic storyteller.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
And you know, it was funny b eighty six powder
because I like Horde unique, I ended up with a
couple of pounds of it. Jeff, dude, I need something
to do with this. This is like a month ago,
he says. Man, I don't know, I haven't really worked
with it. Like three weeks later, an article is in
Handgunner all about the eighty six powder and big bore guns.

(49:13):
So he's a fantastic resource. A lot of his stuff
is open source if you don't want to buy the uh,
you know, a subscription to handgun or guns. But he's
got a lot of online articles and I'm he has
like become one of my good buddies just because we
nerd out over load data and bullet casting compositions and

(49:38):
stuff like you know, vintage bullet molds and things like that.
So thanks Jeff.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
And the question just came up.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
And it's along these same along the lines of the topic.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
It's a huge.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Difference between the four sixty and five hundred in performance
that justified the five hundred and a pressure sense.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
Four sixty out performs the five hundred. Months Yeah, more
versatile too.

Speaker 5 (50:06):
The four to sixty is the practical choice. The five
hundreds the show off choice.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
You know.

Speaker 6 (50:11):
Yeah, I was gonna say, uh, the best reason to
buy a five hundred is to tell people that you
have a five hundred.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
Like what was the bit in.

Speaker 6 (50:23):
Uh British movie anyway? He goes mine sets Desert Eagle
point five.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
Oh yeah, snatch, great movie, Thank yeah, Snatch.

Speaker 6 (50:32):
That's the same reason you yeah, does the same you
buy a five hundred. It's not because it gives you
a measurable ballistic performance over anything else on the market.
It's because it is the largest, uh the largest in
diameter commercially produced handgun caliber in the world. That's also
half of the reason why you both buy a four
to sixty is to say it's the most powerful commercial

(50:52):
handgun caliber in the world.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
So yeah, you know.

Speaker 4 (50:56):
Launched that stuff that that was the whole thing that
he launched a five as a vanity play. We wanted
to have the biggest We wanted to make something nobody
could beat us on, and five hundred would do it.

Speaker 5 (51:07):
And then they had it for about a year or two.

Speaker 4 (51:09):
Then they realized this isn't very practical, and everybody said,
we know, if you did have a forty five caliber
you could actually hunt with it and actually shoot it
and everything else, and that's why.

Speaker 5 (51:17):
And then the reasoning came back into the equation on that.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
But it's a good cartridge, it's great. And the lever gun, yeah, big,
more than that all I want? So three fifty seven
max lever gun, that's all I want. You can remember that.

Speaker 6 (51:33):
It's different one though, do you guys remember that the
ny F handy rifle. Oh and they did one in
five hundred mag.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
No that thing.

Speaker 6 (51:44):
So we have on our ROSSI line we have the
the LWC, which is the ny Free Incarnative.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Right.

Speaker 6 (51:51):
I have one in forty four mag in my closet
which I put an end point on, which costs duckle
the press. Yeah, John, Why does that?

Speaker 3 (52:00):
People mad?

Speaker 6 (52:00):
When I, like, I don't understand why putting a good
optic on a gun that I plan on shooting at
living things makes people mad? When the opting costs more
than the gun.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
That's like trying to convince people that like they shouldn't
buy a gun works. Gun nothing to gets gun works.
Beautiful guns. They're great. If you're an oil tycoon and
you want to get up ready to go package, Go
shoot a sheep. You paid four hundred grand for it
an auction, love it, man, Go buy whatever. Go buy
a Ruger American and Swarovsky binoculars. Because you can't shoot

(52:30):
what you can't see, like spend money on glass, you
cheat mastards.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Right, Yeah, you're you're in EF. I broke serial number
zero zero one, dude, I have of breaking that gun. Wait,
them were like the OG is the OG five hundred
mag When they brought it. A friend of mine was
handling the marketing for that company back when you know

(52:58):
the big marketing conglomerates are around. When the yeah, he
brings the first one and we shot that five hundred
grain hard cast. I threw it up on my shoulder
and round number one boom, And then I go to
reload and it had sheared the action pin and it
fell apart right there on the range.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
I was like, well, at least jem didn't didn't harden.
That didn't harden that action pin.

Speaker 6 (53:22):
I bet shit.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
You guys remember when Remington when they first came out
with three hundred Blackout, they came out with all kinds
of weird guns for it. You can get the Model seven.
Then they did seven hundred, and then they did that
handy rifle and three hundred Blackout. I hate three hundred blackout.
That's a topic for another podcast that I have no
interest in being on because three hundred blackouts not worth
two hours of my time. What about a revolver? It's

(53:51):
a replacement for an MP five SD people, you know,
trying to explain to people that it shoots the same
bullet as my threeh eight. You know, let me hit
you with a cargoing five miles an hour and one
going forty and see which one you like more. Anyhow,
three hundred blackout sucks. Thanks for coming to my ted talk,
unless you're replacing an MP five SD, which is why
it was designed. That handy rifle and three hundred blackout

(54:15):
was awesome. Those were cool.

Speaker 6 (54:18):
And if you'd like to buy the modern version of
the Handy Rifle Blackout, head to Rossiusa dot com and
click on the links to go purchase it from our
partners at Gunnburger and gun guns dot com.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
We're not selling, they are, We're just.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
You all do that one? Do you all do that one?
In four to sixty? Caleb?

Speaker 2 (54:36):
No?

Speaker 6 (54:36):
So okay, so hang on. So obviously you know a
lot of you guys have met or have interacted with Brett,
and Brett and I have had the discussion about how, like,
one of the cool things about working for the Brazilians
is they will occasionally like to throw spaghetti at the
wall and see what sticks right, which is how we

(54:58):
ended up with the judge, which, regardless of how you
feel about the judge, led to a tremendous innovation in
four to ten cartridge development and a lot of people
buying forty five colt Ammo that had never bought forty
five cold Amo before, and that was throwing spaghetti at
the wall and seeing what sticks right. And sometimes you
get a commercial success and sometimes you get the curve,

(55:18):
and that's the cost of doing business. And I'm okay
with that. And one of the spaghetti at the wall
ideas that Brett and I have both had that we
really are trying to let bully Brazil into making is
a rossy LWC four to sixty double rifle, Like it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
I just.

Speaker 6 (55:44):
It's crazy, but also rifle if we could, and we
could very easily do a single rifle, because we've got it.
So we have the LWC right now in forty five colts.
We have a traditional rifle cartridges, so five five, six,
three hundred black. We have a what in development in
eighty six. But the barrels are problematic because eight six

(56:07):
is eight six is like eight six is like my
second wife right, like it's really hot, but it is.
It's a fucking bag full of crazy cats.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Uh, I can relate.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
I agree to that.

Speaker 6 (56:23):
Yeah, uh my second wife was a ginger, so you
know that I should tell you about my smart choice.
But anyway, no, but like I would love to see honestly,
like the lw see, I think we should do one
in five hundred, do one in four sixty, do one
in all these crazy you know, high pressurestol pistol cartridges.

(56:44):
Just because when you stick a five hundred or especially
at four sixty, when you stick a four to sixty
and a long gun, you get a rifle cartridge. You
get a twenty three hundred feet per second rifle cartridge.
That's pushing what a two hundred and fifty grand bullet,
that kind of crazy velocity.

Speaker 5 (57:01):
You can go higher heavier than that.

Speaker 6 (57:02):
We did.

Speaker 4 (57:03):
We did Ruber number one in four sixty and Uh,
they were almost they were fantastic. And you, I mean,
the beautiful thing is about it is you had that
ability to drive a three hundred grain bullet at pushing.
You know that two thousand feet per second, which is
basically heavy. Forty five seventy were a forty five cold
cowboy load in that gun. Yeah, I mean it was

(57:27):
that was think and all the all the states were
the straight wall cases for hunting.

Speaker 5 (57:32):
Uh was a deal man.

Speaker 4 (57:34):
Those guns got sucked up to Michigan and all those
other states because I loved it.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Speaking.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
I want one in single shot that's threaded in four
sixty so I can do I can put my dead
air primal reality the end of it and drop of
a forty five colt in it and then knock one
in your house.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
Yeah you can.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
You can do a knock on corn.

Speaker 4 (58:01):
Maybe we could, Brian, Maybe we could do a number
one style like that rifle you saw the other day.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Oh but putting a can on a gun now, like
especially that XBR man. The crack of that round is
rutal out of most revolvers. But you know, if you
contained it in a single shot and had an had
a decent can on it on a you know, maybe

(58:29):
a ten inch barrel that was SBR, that would be
pretty that would kind of be sex.

Speaker 5 (58:34):
You think about a number one.

Speaker 4 (58:35):
We were number one if you put a sixteen inch
barrel on air since there's no there's no receiver, no action,
no magazine, twelve inch barrel bowl gun.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
Oh, I mean there's seventy five lineball number one, and
I mean it's the handiest little gun.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Yeah, And I like the number one action. I'm a
fan just because like like that hornet is a twenty
inch barrel and that thing carries like a sixteen inch Yeah, yeah,
this is right.

Speaker 6 (59:08):
This is the sixteen inch LWC right, And it is
shorter than my uh I think it's it is shorter
than a couple of my five five six a AR
fifteens that are SBRs, and it's is it's just such
a handy compact gun. And I think, yeah that you
go up account you go up to like four sixty

(59:30):
or five hundred or something on that. And that's really
that becomes incredibly potent as a as a hunting gun,
as a big game gun, a bunch of other stuff.
I wanted to backtrack to the straight wall thing because
it reminded me of something because the three fifty legends.
So Smith has an X frame and three fifty legend, right,

(59:53):
I know it starts with a three, but is that
a big bore? Like where do you where do we
fall on like that sort of wreck, because like if
you put a forty five to seventy in a handgun
like they've done with the magnum research, you know guns,
that's a big board, no questions asked. Yeah, but like
where do we follow in like the three fifty seven
in a wheel gun as a big boarder.

Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
So in my opinion, all they did was recreated threety
seven max. That's all that is, which is a extended
range medium bore in my In my opinion, it's it's
a way to apply a three fifty seven magnum out
to one hundred and fifty yards instead of seventy five yards.
As far as though, as far as hitting big animals

(01:00:36):
like I wouldn't necessarily want to take that and shoot
wilderbeast and in Buffalo and Africa with it like I
would with a four eighty.

Speaker 5 (01:00:45):
That's my opinion, and take on it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:46):
It's still it's still at the end of the day,
it's still like thirty five caliber projectile.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
It's a great deer cartridge, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:00:53):
Over deer. Yeah, it's awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
It's awesome Middle America white tail deer for sure. But yeah,
for me, it's it's a hot roddy three fifty seven
and I love three fifty seven Max Man.

Speaker 6 (01:01:04):
Yeah, I was gonna say, did you see you win
the three fifty seven Max wheel?

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Good?

Speaker 6 (01:01:07):
Get a three lever Leod, get a three fifty legit
levery guide.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
I got a bunch of Max.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
Though, When are we going to air out with forty
one maximum?

Speaker 4 (01:01:20):
Well, you know there was the four one, the four
fourteen John remind remember remember Dan Wesson had that back
in the eighties.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
Yep, they had four fourteen four forty five. Yeah, and
then Ronnie wellstall four to forty five wasn't powerful enough,
so he did forty four Ronnie Stupid, which is an
extended Dan Wesson super bag. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:01:43):
In Wesson four fourteen SUPERMANE. Okay, hand, I'm learning something
now because I did not know that this existed.

Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
Yeah, it was a flash, it was during it, it
was heavy. It got popular during the silhouette craze in
the eighties. Yeah, yeah, everybody was shooting rams at two
hundred meters with revolvers.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
Well, the reason I a lever gun in three fifty
seven max is because you never keep handguns in three
fifty seven max. You turn them into five hundred and
four to seventy five maximums, which the most obnoxious handgun
cartridge on Earth undoubtedly is the four to seventy five
line ball maximum.

Speaker 5 (01:02:18):
Ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
Well, if you don't have you know, there's many different
versions of the Bible, the original of the King James
version and Hamilton Bowen's Custom Revolver book.

Speaker 6 (01:02:28):
That's the favor.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
Everybody should check that out. There is a picture of
him shooting a full power three or a four to
seventy five line ball max. And it is right here
in full recoil.

Speaker 5 (01:02:44):
That's at one point case in it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
It is thee point four.

Speaker 6 (01:02:48):
Yeah, can I uh that full recoil?

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
Can I?

Speaker 6 (01:02:51):
Can I do? My as a trainer, also someone who
you know has lawyers on staff and all of that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
I'm going to do my.

Speaker 6 (01:02:59):
Pause for land. So if you like big boar revolvers
like the brigand four to sixty tourists that I have here,
or any of these, and you are the sort of
person who thinks it's funny to give a giant fuck
off at mega caliber magnum revolver to a new or
inexperienced neophyte shooter, one, I don't like you just right

(01:03:23):
off the rip like that's not cool, man. But two,
if you feel the compulsion to do this, put one
bullet in the gun. Okay, Because people have died from
a thing called doubling, where they pull the trigger on
a large frame double action revolver that has more than
one round in it. It goes off, and the recoiled

(01:03:43):
is so insane that it blows their grip apart. They
lose their grip on the gun, the gun recoils to
a point where the muzzle is now pointed back at
their facehead or whatever. But all of this happens in
about the same time that it takes your monkey brain
to go I'm dropping the gun. I need to clinch
it with all my might, and that clinch reflex causes

(01:04:04):
them to, now with the gun pointed at their face,
clench down super tight and pull the trigger and fill themselves,
which has happened at least three times that I am
aware of. So again, this is my PSA. First off,
it's the sort of person that thinks that's fucking funny.
Fuck you, I don't like you, and I'm perfectly comfortable
saying that as a major brand rep with my old chest. Okay,

(01:04:27):
that's not cool. No one thinks that's funny. If you
absolutely have to do show your new friend who's never
shot a gun before how powerful you're. Whatever is one round,
one round, that's it, or a single action revolver because
you can't double the single action revolver. All right, but
if you've got a Raging Hunter or an X frame

(01:04:47):
or any of those things.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
Man, be cool.

Speaker 6 (01:04:49):
Don't be a dick, because also I guarantee that the
person that you gave that you know four sixty two,
that you know blasted it and really did enjoy the recail.
You know what, they're never gonna do again touch your gun. Yeah,
you're ruined them. Sorry, that is that is one of
my I apologize for the sled derialment. That's one of
my hot button issues that just every time somebody sends

(01:05:12):
me Instagram reel or YouTube video, Oh, this person can't
control the recoil. I'm like, that woman is five foot
one and weighs eighty pounds, soaking wet, and some decads
for five hundred. Of course you can't control the recoil.

Speaker 4 (01:05:25):
Well, that that's a good segue, h Caleb on. You
know you got to shoot these guns differently than you
do your glock nineteen.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
Yes, we did.

Speaker 5 (01:05:34):
I remember we did the launch.

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
Video on the busy four eighties and four fifty fours. Somebody,
you know, not that I ever read the comments, but
somebody in the YouTube comments is like, I got he
doesn't know how to walk out, and uh, he's letting
that recoil get the best of them.

Speaker 5 (01:05:47):
Like you just ride it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
You show me.

Speaker 4 (01:05:51):
Yeah, you you lock your wrist out in your in
your elbows like you're shooting the clock nineteen. You'll shoot
about a cylinder's worth and you're and then you're a
tennis elbow starts flaring up, and you've got to let
these guns recoil. You've got to you got to let
them come over your shoulder like this. Really, I tend
to shoot a little more uh bladed, just to kind

(01:06:13):
of they kind of get that action like this to
let the get him so they don't hitch in the face.

Speaker 5 (01:06:19):
But you get out. You got to ride to recoil.

Speaker 4 (01:06:21):
You can't sit there and shoot locked out and it
looks like you're letting the gun recoil weight exaggerated. It's
not for it's not for the video for effect. It's
so you can shoot these guns all day that way,
and because.

Speaker 5 (01:06:33):
These guns can get away from you pretty quick.

Speaker 4 (01:06:35):
And like John was talking about, but he started getting
into the line balls and heaven forbid, you got a lineball, max, man,
you can get hurt quick.

Speaker 5 (01:06:43):
I remember John Taffan told us that when he I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:06:46):
Man has got more probably around had more rounds through
big boars anybody I know.

Speaker 5 (01:06:51):
He said the line ball lungs would actually make him
physically ill to shoot.

Speaker 4 (01:06:54):
I mean he could shoot about a cylinder worth and
then he'd be done for the day, to go lay down.

Speaker 6 (01:06:59):
That was like it well, I was so everyone you know,
people who know me know that I hold my revolver
is weird, right, Like I use a thumbs forward grip
on my support grip, very similar to how I would
hold a semi automatic pistol. And I'll even do that
on this four sixty shooting full house for sixty loads
because I have ten inches of barrel and a compensator

(01:07:20):
that is enormous on this gun.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Right.

Speaker 6 (01:07:23):
I was on the range the other day and I
was running a two and a half inch l frame
sized forty four magnum and my stupid ass put a
cylinder full of the federal hydra shocks in there. I
did not know how hot those things were loaded the
hydrostock forty four magnums. And I get that thing out

(01:07:45):
there in my standard thumbs forward grip, and I'm you know,
I've got a great grip on this gun. I cracked
that first round double action, my grip disintegrates, the gun
rotates up to here, and I'm like, we're not doing
that anymore, and I immediately rotate my thumbs and I
lock my thumbs down over the top of the gun.
And it's still though, remaining four rounds in that gun.

(01:08:08):
I got through those, and I was like, and we're
done shooting that round out of this gun for the
rest of all time, because that sucked ass. And what
people need to understand is that with revolvers, and this
is you know, this goes into like the performance revolver
shooting thing. It's not like shooting a nineteen eleven or

(01:08:32):
a Glock nineteen or anything like that. Like I'll run
basically the same grip on a Glock twenty one that
I would on a Block nineteen, right, like, sure the
twenty one's got more power, or even a Glock twenty
shooting ten LT. I'm gonna run basically the same grip.
With revolvers, I am going to adapt my grip to
the gun, the grip shape, the fucking load that I'm shooting.

(01:08:54):
I shoot a jframe in three point fifty seven way
different than I shoot a jframe in twenty two, even
though they're the same size gun. Same as I shoot
my four sixty way different than I would shoot a
smaller forty four or something like that. And what people
who come from like the glock nineteen background too revolvers

(01:09:14):
think is that it's one size fits all, because it's
largely one size fits all with semi autos, and it's
not over here like I do shit differently depending on
my application, what I'm trying to do with the gun,
what size gun I'm carrying, and all kinds of other stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
Well, quick plug, if you're coming to a Desert Rogers, no,
you're coming to the pat Rogers Memorial Revolver round up.
I've got two blocks, one with Caleb and one with
Lou Gasnell, and Caleb and I are doing big board
double actions.

Speaker 6 (01:09:49):
This is gonna be there, guys. I'm gonna bring this
thing and I'm gonna bring some full full chat for
sixty loads, because I will say, this gun is fun
to run on the edge, but.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
We're going to do that. Caleb and I'll be doing
big bore double actions. So basically, I'll be bringing a
swath of big boar Smith's and and then with Lou, Guys,
now we're doing big boar single actions. So and it's
all about like Caleb was talking about. You know, different

(01:10:23):
styles of grips on the same gun are designed to
be held different ways. And my favorite, most recent example
is Bobby Tyler's bear hug stocks. You know, guys shoot
those and they think, well, I can't hold onto the gun. Well,
it's not made for shooting fast. It's made to make
that recoil kind of mimic a single action to kind

(01:10:44):
of roll in your hand and slough off some of
that heavy recoil when you're shooting a pretty boom in
forty four or forty five colt. So, so that's kind
of going to be our We hadn't even announced that yet, Caleb,
So there you go.

Speaker 7 (01:11:01):
So now Darryl secondary first, Yeah, So as FYI at
the pat Rodgers Memorial roundup in a gun site, I
will be teaching big board starts with four with Brian
one day, and then the next day I'm going to
be teaching.

Speaker 6 (01:11:16):
Red dot Revolver with Eric, so like uh and interestingly,
I'm going to use the same gun for a lot
of it, and I'll bring my forty four mag and chute
specials out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
So, so we're going to take a quick one minute
forty second break. You're on the timer, so bathroom drink whatever.
We shall return shortly. Lucky Gunner carries Ammo for sale
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(01:12:06):
and really we all do, check out Luckygunner dot com.

Speaker 5 (01:12:10):
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Speaker 3 (01:13:19):
And we are back.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
Maybe it yes, good times.

Speaker 6 (01:13:27):
I do have to say something that Jason said earlier.
The Rugger number one, when you get one with like
the man liquor stock, is just such an achingly pretty
gun to look at, Like that's one of those, Jeff.
I so obviously when I was a kid, I read
the Gunsight column, the Gunsight gossip columns in the back

(01:13:49):
of Guns Namo religiously right, like that was, you know,
I would get my guns Namo and turn straight to
the back to read Jeff Cooper's column. And I forget
what gun he was talking about, but he said, I
think it was like he had been to shot show
and he was talking a moment by the Piazzi booth,
and you're talking about a hundred thousand dollars shotguns, you know,

(01:14:09):
in nineteen ninety whatever, Right, And he's like, and he
and I remember the quote he said, I don't have
a use for it, but I'm glad to be in
a world where it exists. And I do have a
use for the Ruger number one, But I think about
guns like that a lot, where like I, you know,
as just a guy who goes to Africa occasionally, I

(01:14:30):
don't have a use for an African double rifle. But man,
I'm glad I live in a world where that sort
of thing exists, right, because those things are really beautiful,
They're really cool.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
I had. I had no use for a number one,
no use for twenty two hornet, and no use for
an international or a man Looker stock. And one day
get on the Lipsy's website and I see a twenty
two hornet number one for the Man Looker Stock, and
I am mediately like called Jason. I was like, hey, man,

(01:15:03):
forty fifth birthdays coming up, and that is the only
gun that I own that When I took it out
of the box on our bar, my wife looked at
it and she goes, oh my god, that is a
beautiful gun, and every other one, oh yeah, And I said,
you can call this one pretty None of the other
ones can be pretty. They can they can be cool

(01:15:24):
or gorgeous. But and the new stuff that Lipsey's is getting,
oh my god, the wood love the wood grade on
them is fen fantastic.

Speaker 6 (01:15:34):
Side note, awesome for the people that are listening, Like,
obviously everybody on this call, we're all industry insiders, but
y'all need to put some respect on Lipsey's name because
Jason is out here doing the lord's work, getting weirdo
ask guns for the degenerate population because he's like, we'll
buy five hundred of them. We'll buy you know, he'll

(01:15:56):
go to the manufacturers, so we're like, hey, how many
of these do you need to buy to make this
thing happen? And he goes out there and he gets them.
And then what what's cool is they do the product
education for their reps to actually get their reps to
sell them into stores. Right, Like they're not just being like,
we're buying these guns because Jason wants too, but they're like, actually,

(01:16:17):
like they're doing degenerate guns for the people. And if
you don't fuck with that, then I don't fuck with you.
Like that's really cool, And you guys don't understand how
our industry is so biased towards making the thing that sells,
you know, I mean, John, you know this harbably better
than anyone.

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
He has no idea. What are you talking?

Speaker 6 (01:16:36):
Yeah, exactly right, Like you make the thing that sells,
and if you're lucky, you work for a company that
makes enough of the thing that sells so they can
also make the cool thing.

Speaker 3 (01:16:47):
The cool things. Yeah, we talked about that on the
forty five Cult episode. Jason wasn't here, that he was
in Africa at the time, but we were like, you know,
you all of him a debt of gratitude because if
he was obsessed with glocks, then we wouldn't have all
this cool.

Speaker 6 (01:17:01):
Stuff we have that we'd have yet another ported compensated
glock with a magwell, and you.

Speaker 3 (01:17:10):
Know or whoever they are, right, you know, guys will
walk up to you at a trade show, look at
my R fifteen. We make the best hard you say,
are fifteen? You don't make ship on there? Yeah, berylstic advantage.
You get receivers on a variance and someone else turns
out the same handguard everybody else. Yeah, I mean, who knows.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
Darryl and I just made a little pirate run to
Baton Rouge. There's content forthcoming on that, and every time
I'm down there, I will see something that I didn't
know I needed. Right, it's expensive, but at the same
time it's like, oh, man, if I were to go
try to source a vintage one. Uh, and there's you know,

(01:18:02):
we want to talk about.

Speaker 6 (01:18:03):
But still, I was in the Middle Okay, So I
mentioned I did mention this show that I'm a part
time Air Force guy. So I was deployed. I'm in
the Middle East. I am running the counter drone shop
for the largest Air Force base in the Middle East. Right,
I am busy at shit, and I happen to be
glancing at my Normy email and I see that Lipsey's

(01:18:25):
was doing the taffin perfect packing six gun.

Speaker 3 (01:18:29):
How fat?

Speaker 6 (01:18:30):
I emailed Jason so fast that you must have thought
I was in a fucking time warp. I was like,
just hold one of these for me. I don't care
how long it takes to get up. Just whenever it's ready.
You sent me a text, whatever it costs, I don't care.
I need one of those.

Speaker 5 (01:18:47):
Yeah, it's cool. I mean, that's a that's a fun thing.

Speaker 4 (01:18:50):
I mean, and I think that's what I call big
gun industry doesn't realize, is that all these little niches
out there in his enthusiast sections of the industry are
so underserved.

Speaker 5 (01:19:02):
And it's not hard, guys.

Speaker 4 (01:19:04):
I mean, you know, I was fortunate enough that I
grew up I'm fifty now, but I grew up reading.

Speaker 5 (01:19:12):
My dad's gun magazines from the seventies and eighties, and
everything was blued.

Speaker 4 (01:19:17):
You know, half lug three, fifty seven magnums and forty
four specials, and that was your choice. You know, if
you wanted an auto pistol, it was a nineteen eleven
or a a high power.

Speaker 5 (01:19:26):
I mean, that was basically your choice.

Speaker 6 (01:19:28):
And so, oh, how far are we've fallen?

Speaker 5 (01:19:31):
I know, I know it was.

Speaker 4 (01:19:33):
I still have a bunch of those magazines and I'll
fit through them all the time. And I was like,
oh my god, people would lose their minds if they
could get this stuff today, and back then that was
just that was just everyday stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:19:43):
And you know, it does not hard.

Speaker 4 (01:19:45):
All you gotta do is look and see what are
people willing to buy at retail, send off to a
custom maker for lord knows how long to come up
to a couple of years at times, and pay twice
as much as what they pay for the gun to
have it converted to this this and.

Speaker 5 (01:20:01):
Then come back.

Speaker 4 (01:20:02):
If you can just get that from a factory offering,
even if it's not every little custom touch, if it's
eighty five percent, there's it's a win. I mean, you
can't lose with that formula. And fortunately we've got people
that you know, that understand that, and they're willing to
support my of degenerasy.

Speaker 5 (01:20:25):
I still we always we laugh at at the office
all the time.

Speaker 4 (01:20:27):
In two thousand and eight, which was the height of
the Obama AR fifteen craze, I mean, the whole industry
was bus in this mind on high high capacity ars
and blocks, and I go to my bosses and say,
I want to do a flat top.

Speaker 5 (01:20:41):
Forty four special.

Speaker 4 (01:20:44):
Are you fucking out of your mind? I mean it's like,
no way, and they're like, I'm telling you, it's going
to sell. And finally after a while they were like, okay,
I mean if you if you think so, and Ruber
agreed said, okay, if you're willing to.

Speaker 5 (01:20:56):
Floid the check, we'll do them. And it was one
of the hottest guns of the year that year. I mean,
we sold bal level.

Speaker 4 (01:21:02):
And it really created, it created that US as being
kind of the go to for that esoteric, weird stuff
that the guys like us are gonna want to buy.

Speaker 6 (01:21:15):
And I can say that, you know, talking to the
actual sales piece of it, so you know, people, So
for people who don't know, uh, it's not a good
year to be thilling guns. Everything's down, uh for many
many complex economic reasons. But the revolver sector. So if

(01:21:37):
everything is down x percent, like if the market as
a whole is down x percent, there's two sectors, the
revolver and the lever action sector that while they are
still down, they're down less than the general average for
the market at large. Right, Like Ar's nine millimeters striker fired,
you know, nine millimeter bomer frame striker fire semi automatics,

(01:21:59):
those are down very very badly. Revolvers and lever actions
are still holding out. And I maintain this theory that
I've said on multiple times is correct, is that even
when the economy is bad, even when people are concerned
about you know, X, Y and Z, we like buying guns.
But we all have five Air fifteen's and five polymer

(01:22:22):
frame nine millimeters five Femi automatic pistols and so when
you go into the gun store and you're like, well,
I want to buy something new, and you see a
shiny revolver in there, you go, I don't have a
shiny revolver. I need a shiny revolver, and you get
the shiny revolver or you get the shiny lever action
because you watched The Riflemen with your dad growing up,
you know. So I do think that there is there's

(01:22:45):
an inherent resiliency in those segments that maybe the big
industry at large doesn't understand. I will say I think
that Corus is a brand. We do understand it, and
we have leaned in harder in the revolver market in this,
you know, in these trying times buy a Torust revolver.

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
He yeh uh, you know it.

Speaker 6 (01:23:06):
It is interesting and I think that I think that
I completely lost my train of thought after the endies
trying times bit, But yeah, go buy a revolver. Honestly, Like,
I'll say this, I don't even like I do I
want you to buy a tourist revolver. Yes, but if
you don't own a revolver and you're like, I'm gonna
go get my first revolver and you get a smith

(01:23:27):
or a ruger or a colt or a tourist. I
don't care, just get one and be like, oh, I
like this, because you know what happens is you go
get the first one and then you're like I like this,
and then the next thing you know, you're on gun
broker looking for you know, uh, registered magnums at two
in the morning, being like, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
Gen Dad shades, which I will say I actually old
more of those in one year than had sold the
previous ten years prior to the point. Now that like
people hit my dad's shop all the time, like his
web his web analytics, and I get messages, hey if

(01:24:15):
ll y'all come across the ten dash eight man, let
me know. But my dad's shop, so when I was
from the time I was seven until I was about ten,
he had a brick and mortar retail shop while he
worked graveyards as a cop. And then his shop opened
at ten am, so we got up at seven and
from ten to five every day or ten to six,

(01:24:35):
his shop was open. And I used to get the
lou Horton catalogs, and now that lou Horton is gone,
they're his Lipsy's right, and that's it's they were kind
of I wouldn't say they were the first, but the
Horton guns were like the first big volume. I mean,
you had Dayton guns back in the day with like

(01:24:57):
the Hayen Special and things like that, and some special
cat like off catalog orders with different companies. But you know,
Lou Horton was looking at It's Coli Jason, does you know, oh,
Gavino and Baylor and they're cutting these, you know, forty
five a c P, forty five Colt revolvers down and
forty four nags and all this stuff, and then they

(01:25:21):
would they would get the factory to do like a
solid A minus B plus homage to that. And we
covet those guns now. So Lipsey's is.

Speaker 6 (01:25:33):
Filling that Denburger for four hundred dollars right now. And
I'm not kidding what I tell you. I'm like this
close to pointing in my art.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
Hey, Caleb, I have it on authority that RNG Firearms
dot Net has a batch en route. So uh, all right,
all right, that may that may have lineage to New
York law enforcement.

Speaker 6 (01:25:53):
All right, wait for one of those.

Speaker 1 (01:25:55):
The breaks, the breaks I'll.

Speaker 6 (01:25:57):
Tank going on here, yeah, I feel like, hey, you
know what, it's not illegal when it's just guns, or
if you're a congressman.

Speaker 3 (01:26:06):
But I got a lou Hordon's six twenty four that
Nelson Ford worked over good Like, I didn't think it
was that special. And I got on gun Broker not
too long ago, and so anything that says lou Horton
is going for oh god, brutal well.

Speaker 4 (01:26:23):
And you know, I know the guy Bob Coyle who
was at lou Horton at the time, who later became
the head of Taylor, and Bob's a really good friend
of mine, and you know, Bob, he.

Speaker 5 (01:26:34):
Was smartus back then. Horton's they really were heavy on
that eighties in the nineties, but they.

Speaker 4 (01:26:41):
Were smart and that they were tied in to the
Smith Western Collectors Association and all these type of things
that helped get the word out. And that was always
a problem, you know, pre social media, pre YouTube being
really a big deal. When we do a special project
and he had a few hundred pieces, you were excited
because it was hard to get to info out because
you couldn't have a huge marketing budget to tell about

(01:27:03):
this tunerd piece gun run because you know, the gun
magazine ad would cost you twenty thousand dollars, so that
was all the profit in that project. So you couldn't
even do that. But now it's so easy to get
the word out. And if you've got a good you know,
if you do good videos and you got good friends
in the industry like Brian and Darryl that they helped
spread the word. You know, you can now now it

(01:27:24):
can be a three thousand piece run of something and
people actually.

Speaker 5 (01:27:27):
Know about it and go buy it.

Speaker 4 (01:27:29):
But they Lou Horton did a great job of helping
get the information the best they could out at the time,
so people knew about it. And that's why you know,
probably the Dayton's and the Hanson's and the Wolf and
cars and all that stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:27:40):
Back in the day, unless you.

Speaker 4 (01:27:42):
Were local to that area, you need to even know
that really existed and just happenstance happened to buy one.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
But yeah, yeah, Lou Horton would publish these like black
and white flyers. And if you had a fax machine
back in the day, like it seemed like it was
on Tuesdays or something, your fax machine at like eight
in the morning would spit out a flyer and you know,
you look at all the you know, dealer information only

(01:28:12):
and they would kind of publish like what they're what
their projects, or what they had in stock and stuff,
and then you had to call and like wait on
hold for two hours while you're trying to order two guns.
It was highly inefficient, but but really neat and now
like that, like the LCR thirty two project that we

(01:28:34):
did with Lipsey's I on our website behind the wall,
there's a chat room where they guys can post pictures
of guns and and ask questions and things like that,
and I'm relatively certain that the AFR subscribers probably bought

(01:28:54):
the first five hundred of those that came hit the street.
It was like it was overwhelming, and we really cater
to like the super consumer and the revolver world that
they're going to buy five or ten revolvers a year,
no matter what what it is, whether it's use guns,
new guns. So that's been really interesting to kind of

(01:29:15):
track that data and see, hey, you know, we did
a video on this brand new release, and then I
can get on the Lipsy site and watch them go
out of stock, and it's like that's awesome. Man. It's
been it's been a lot of fun and really kind
of overwhelming the number of people that when they joined

(01:29:36):
the site they have one Revolver, and now they're like, Okay,
so I got a ten to five, a ten to six,
at ten to seven, a ten eight, which what other
ones do I need? You know, it's oh, now you've
got to find the the three inch versions and the
snubs and I mean so it's it's cool from a
collector standpoint. But the one thing I'm seeing right now

(01:29:57):
Revolver worldwide is as the vintage guns people are starting
to like even myself, like, oh I don't want to
shoot those a whole lot. I love collecting them, I'll
love having them occasionally shoot them, but they've the value
proposition there. They've they've increased so much that now that

(01:30:18):
we've got a modern alternative, you know, with like I
spent I'll just use Smith and Wesson for an example.
You know, vintage mountain guns were bringing serious premiums, and
now with the modern art alternative, it's like, oh, I
got one with a warranty. It's got some cool stocks,

(01:30:39):
it's got a cool front sight, and I can actually
go out and really shoot this gun and not you know,
not worry about if the hammer spur breaks off or
something goes weird with it that it can't be repaired,
or I got to spend months tracking parts down well Mountain.

Speaker 4 (01:30:56):
The Mountain gun really kind of proves Caleb's remark earlier.

Speaker 5 (01:31:00):
And we launched those a shot show. We didn't start
I think.

Speaker 4 (01:31:02):
Getting them in until maybe March or something like that,
so we've effectively been selling them for say six months,
and they're still on allocation in a market, especially over
this summer that has been actually brutal, especially for a
lot of people who strictly are in the AR and
pistol world. That gun is still we've sold. We've put

(01:31:25):
over three thousand Mountain guns on the market so far
and they're still We're out of stock and have dealers
lined up, and they're allocated with our sales reps. There's
no other gun that we launched a shot show that's
remotely closest still being on allocation. And it's not because
we haven't had them either. I mean, you know, you
start putting that amount of large bore revolvers on the market,

(01:31:46):
usually that that sucks down pretty fast, and so it
just it shows that there is a market for it.

Speaker 5 (01:31:53):
But in the revolver world you got to execute correctly.
You can't.

Speaker 4 (01:31:58):
And that's where a lot of people, I think kind
of dabbled in it, and then they didn't do it
right right because the guy's like John Knight when he
goes by a revolver, he's looking at a certain things.
And if they don't get this certain stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:32:10):
Right, he's not He's out. He's not he's not gonna
he's not gonna dive in.

Speaker 4 (01:32:15):
And so it helps to have people that actually use
these guns on a daily basis and actually carry him
and actually hunt with them.

Speaker 5 (01:32:22):
And not just look at him on the wall.

Speaker 4 (01:32:25):
And you know, I mean, my four eighty's been riding
in this barante rig I mean he can tell let's
beat up because I actually carry this gun in the
woods constantly and uh. And that's and so that helps
get the right feature set, the stuff that people appreciate,
and try to find all the little details and make
sure those are addressed before you actually go throw on

(01:32:47):
the market and then realize, oh crap. You know, everybody
who would who would have potentially been a consumer for
this gun didn't want a slap side barrel or didn't
want a weird trigger guard cut or something like that
that doesn't you know, stupid stuff like that. Sometimes the
industry wants to make stuff different for the sake of
making it different, but then they forget there's no holsters.

(01:33:09):
Now the speedloaders don't work with those grips whatever else. O. Lord,
they create all these problems that guys that are serious
end users who want these guns are not going to
bother you know what, I'll go buy you smith.

Speaker 5 (01:33:21):
It's easier, yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:33:22):
I said, throwing spaghetti at the law.

Speaker 3 (01:33:25):
Yes, yeah, Well that's the people think about. You know,
it's holsters. Like, buddy, when I buy a new gun,
it's not the cost of the gun, it's it's double action,
mighty speedloaders. It's holsters, man. So like whatever you're selling
that thing for, add two hundred bucks and and the
weight to it. You know, it's it's got to be right.

Speaker 1 (01:33:47):
Yeah, you see, the Ultimate carry opened the door to
a lot of people that were not dedicated revolver people.
The dedicated revolver people went nuts for it. But the
number of people I had called me, even like guys
that are you know, in their sixties, that retired cops

(01:34:08):
that spent most of their time on a semi auto
and never really got into small revolvers. They're at that
stage in life where it's like, well I need one.
These are good, right, And then the Mountain Gun. You know,
we had a customer that ended up with a six
eighty six plus Mountain Gun. He's sixty two years old.
That was his first revolver and now he's calling me

(01:34:31):
like weekly, like what do I buy next? You know,
So that that's been a it's been a real cool
thing to like hit the like twenty one to thirty
one year olds with cool revolvers that they dig. And
then the people that were kind of revolver curious in
the semi auto are are now starting to go, man,

(01:34:52):
I see a lot of use for that. So it's
really opened a ton of doors lately for you know,
consumers like you were guys were talking about, Oh well,
the stiffling patterns different. It's got a two four comp
instead of a single. And there's nothing wrong with those guns.
I love those guns, but but there's it made the uh,

(01:35:15):
it made revolvers approachable again, which I really appreciate.

Speaker 3 (01:35:20):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:35:20):
I question one thing and John kind of touched on
it earlier in the podcast, is that the door is
kind of closing though on the custom Big Boy Revolver
world because you got Hamleton Bone retire, John Linbaugh passed away, David.

Speaker 3 (01:35:39):
Retire.

Speaker 6 (01:35:40):
There's no replacements for these, there's not.

Speaker 4 (01:35:42):
There's a few guys, there's a couple, but it's still
And I think what these guys have realized, though, is.

Speaker 5 (01:35:48):
That there's not a lot of money in this.

Speaker 4 (01:35:51):
I mean, it can only make so many guns, and
you know, most of somebody one of you guys might
even say that every custom gun guy, I will tell
you that you can build cool guns. But then selling
parts is where you make it actually pays the bills,
you know. And so until these guys can get a
part or something like that going, it's really tough to
it's a tough way to make a living. And it's

(01:36:12):
probably a lot of guys are willing to jump in there.
So that though, and if you look at it, there's
used guns are costing. Now you go on gun broker
and pull a bowing or lineball, be prepared to write
big check money. I mean, it's it's it's it's serious money.

Speaker 3 (01:36:24):
There There aren't any right now, but six grand and up.
And that's for the most basic.

Speaker 6 (01:36:32):
You know, we used super or bow in custom gun.

Speaker 4 (01:36:37):
I was like, looking, so there's that so that, you know,
so anybody who's thinking about man, you know, five and
a half inch barrel bandit five hundred lineball with ivory grips,
I wouldn't wait around too long. I would maybe start
to look at that now. Uh, and hopefully that'll that'll

(01:37:00):
you know, that will pick up and other guys will
carry the torch. But you know, freedom arms BFR, those
are good places to look.

Speaker 6 (01:37:09):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:37:09):
You know, the Freedom Arms guns are fantastic guns. But
heck they're not cheap either. I mean they're about thirty
five hundred bucks now, I think for an eighty three
something like that, I.

Speaker 6 (01:37:17):
Know, I think it's closed to five.

Speaker 3 (01:37:21):
The basic field models. Still it's in the three grand range.
But also, you know, everybody can go on and look
at everybody's production numbers for the year it's published data.
Freedom Arms makes less revolvers a year than I think
I have in my house right now. They're they're hard
to get. If you order one custom I think you're

(01:37:44):
looking at two years right now. Don't don't quote me
on that. I would have to ask mister Baker. You know,
if you want a Freedom Arms gun speck, you're you're
looking at a two year weight. They do have dealers,
And yeah, I know I don't know him. I wouldn't
him if he was in room. I shot one of
his guns. A young guy in Reno Jordan's switzer said,

(01:38:06):
I don't know him from anyone. The gun was beautiful.
Jack Huntington's still building him. But man, I'd get on
that list because like he's next. He's not a spring chicken.
And I've got some of his guns. They're fantastic.

Speaker 5 (01:38:19):
Ronnie Wills is building some cool guns. Yep, you Ronnie.
He's busier than you know.

Speaker 4 (01:38:25):
Yeah, so I mean, who knows if he's building guns
this week or parts and next.

Speaker 3 (01:38:29):
And Ronnie may call Ronnie and he'll build a gun.
You may call Ronnie and he'll be like, we're gonna
build up right right, an alcohol field hot rode this week.

Speaker 1 (01:38:42):
Yeah. My dad and I just sent a old model
three screw three fifty seven to Alan Harten to have
it made into a custom forty one special. We shifted
out two weeks ago and Alan's still doing doing work.
Then there's a guy named Ryan Ross. That Furman's Garza

(01:39:06):
turned me onto, but not a whole you know, not
a whole lot. And to Jason's credit, that flat flat
top forty one mid frame. I my dad picked one
up and I said, don't you have a forty one Blackhawk?
And he pulls a full clements custom out of the safety.
Because yah, I wanted to retire this one. I was like,

(01:39:28):
oh my god, have you seen what those self forward?
He goes, yeah, I might need to pay him my
truck off, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:39:34):
And this is limits Busley Vacaro in forty five Colt
he built for me. This was muddeled after Ross Seifert's
gun heased up in elkshol And But again, I mean,
these guns are just they're just slick man. Just you
know when you when you cocked the hammer, it just
makes that thunk that yeah, the directory guns don't make
And he's perfect on it.

Speaker 5 (01:39:56):
But you're gonna pay for it these days.

Speaker 3 (01:39:58):
I mean, that's just that's just the thing, Like you said,
you know, eighty eighty five percent out of a factory
gun before you get into diminishing returns, you know, I've
got So this one is Hamilton Bowen one of the
first four to seventy five memrods he ever built. It's
it's actually Mark four seventy five Magnum. I've talked to

(01:40:18):
him about it. He's like, yeah, at the time, I
didn't think I'd put a competitor's name down my barrel,
but also you know we're friends. And then when it
got Sammy approved, I changed the markings. I think Ben
Forkin remembered working on this gun. That's how old it
is blocked. You can see the extra screw, blocked action everything.

(01:40:39):
All you could do. This was Jeff Cooper's gun. So
if you've ever been to gunsight and seen a picture
of him with a revolver and a chest rig on
his three wheeler in wisconsin's this gun and it's it's
mechanically perfect. He had it Magna Porta. Don't love that,
but you couldn't. It's mechanically you can't make a better
one that it's kind of bow and retire in is

(01:41:02):
a sad day for everybody. Will this gun do anything?
In practical terms? With this Lipsey's four eighty I think
I paid eight hundred bucks for when I got it.
It won't. But it's different when you hold it. The

(01:41:22):
pride of ownership is uh.

Speaker 4 (01:41:25):
Yeah, and it's also honestly, it depends on what you
want to do with it. Because I've got several custom
guns and with gun that I bring to Africa.

Speaker 5 (01:41:32):
I brought my Super Redhawk. That gun is probably the
ugliest revolver that I own.

Speaker 4 (01:41:38):
But you know what if something I'm going to Africa,
you know, it's my first trip, but I don't know
if something's gonna happen to you know whatever. I'm like,
I'm not bringing my customs Clemic's gun over there. I'm
not bringing a lineball gun over there.

Speaker 5 (01:41:49):
And so you know that's the thing too. If you
want a big bore.

Speaker 4 (01:41:53):
Gun to go hunt, you want to go trial or
you're gonna fly with these guns, man, it probably not
a bad idea to have a raging hunter. It's not
bad to have a Super Red Hawk or something like
that that you're not going to cry about something happens
to it.

Speaker 6 (01:42:08):
And we like we joke, you know, like in the
in the training side of the community and Mats heard this,
you know, we joke about like we don't joke. Actually,
there's some people who are very serious about.

Speaker 3 (01:42:16):
They do it.

Speaker 6 (01:42:17):
Like two is one and one is none, right, Like
you have to have, like, you know, your carry gun,
and then you have to have an exact copy of
your carry gun that you train with, right, and so
you don't shoot your carry gun a lot, you shoot
your training gun a lot. And one of the and
I know I've talked to Brian about this too, one
of the like, honestly, one of the cool things about
the course is like, hey, you know what you can

(01:42:39):
do that Like, go get yourself a ridging hunter and
forty four magnum and shoot the dog water out of
it and you'll spend you know, I don't know, seven
fifty eight hundred bucks if you get it on a
gun broker and go get yourself another one and zero
with your hunting loads and shoot it four or five
times a year just to make sure that hold zero
and all of that. You've got one to practice with

(01:43:00):
so that you can you know, run and slam it
down on the sticks and throw it on the sticks
and do all of the shit and drop it and whatever,
and you're not going to break the bank. And I
love a custom gun my now nearly I don't have
any really high end custom revolvers because I tend because
of my background, I tend to treat guns like baseball bats, right,

(01:43:22):
like they're not precious things to me. With a couple
of very limited exceptions, but when I was running around
Africa with my raging Hunter, I wasn't worried if I
banged it on the truck getting into the you know,
getting in and out of the vehicle. I wasn't worried
if I fell while I was maybe chasing a kudo

(01:43:42):
and it fell out of my hole stir, which that's
a real thing that happened. And the guns all beat
up now, Like if you look at it, it's got
harry marks, it's got wear marks, it's got all of
this stuff that's happened to it. I don't care. You know,
the gun's eight hundred dollars, right, and it's held zero.
Trigger's still good. Mechanically, the gun's fine. It just cosmetically

(01:44:03):
beat up. But it's cosmetically beat up in a way
that would really really upset me if that gun costs
five thousand dollars or three thousand dollars or some number
like that, where I'd be like, I don't necessarily know
if I want to beat the dog shit out of
this gun. But because it's you know, eight hundred dollars,
one thousand dollars whatever you're paying for a raging hundred
these days, you know, it's a working gun. And I

(01:44:26):
like a working gun. And I do think a working
gun that has been beat up, has kind of been
through the ringer, does have a character and does have
a class all its own. Like there's something about that
when you look at you, like, oh, that doesn't seem
some weird shit, Like I'm here for that.

Speaker 5 (01:44:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:44:43):
Well, and to you guys, credit Taurus. You know we recommend,
we actually AFR B and Darryl when we're teaching classes.
You know, we don't hesitate to recommend Taurus anymore. You know,
like if somebody these needs a gateway revolver, what's wrong

(01:45:04):
it's my boss, Yeah, what's what's wrong with an eight
fifty six, you know? Or the eight fifty six Ultra Light,
which I that's my If Darryl and I are going
someplace sketchy to do something semi sketchy, the eight fifty
six Ultra Light goes with me because if I got
to throw it in the dumpster, okay, you know, yeah,

(01:45:28):
but it works, you know, and and it's it's accurate,
and the beauty is you know, you guys on those
pinned front site revolvers kind of crack the code of
Like for fifteen bucks, I could replace the front site
with a one sixteenth roll punch. You know it's.

Speaker 6 (01:45:44):
Yeah, there are says big dot on there, throw a
fiber optic on there, like hell, even I'm looking at
the executive grade eight fifty six, which is you know,
the Modern's model twelve, right or no model twelve aluminum,
but regardless, three inch belt gun six shot thirty eight special.

(01:46:05):
They're five hundred dollars on Instagram if I have to
chop somebody outside or Instagram, sorry, gun broker. I'm little tired. Guys.
I have a six year old and he is being
a real dick lately. He's six man, exactly, they're real
dix at that age.

Speaker 1 (01:46:23):
The only reason you don't you don't strangle him at
that age is so you can hunt with him when
they turn like fourteen.

Speaker 6 (01:46:30):
Oh facts, he is, oh you guys, well a sidebar.
Appreciate this so my wife. I love my wife. She's wonderful.
Third try was in fact of the charm, however, absolutely
loads taxidermy of any type. Right, So my will to
be shoulder mount is going in my Air Force office.

(01:46:51):
The European mounts are going to go in my office
down at the Bainbridge facility. The Zebra rug is in
fact allowed in the house, so that's coming back to
the house. But the funniest thing was I was showing
my son photos of the Wildebeeste Mount on my phone
and he goes, Daddy, can we put that in my room?
And I was like, go say that to your mother
right now, Like just you go, just take your little

(01:47:15):
butt in there and tell your mom exactly what you
just said to me. Because now I've got some AMMO.
I still lost, but you know, it was, it was.
It was a fun It was a fun moment.

Speaker 1 (01:47:29):
Same here. But I've got the AFR studio is, oh
that's nice around so and I am going to go
on a spree of handgun hunting this year, and a
lot of it with single actions and bullets that I've
cast or or Jason and friends have given me like

(01:47:51):
some cat. That's the other cool thing I love about
the big Boor revolvers. It's like, oh, well, I'm working
on this load and then you know we're down at season.
Jason's counterpart Dale goes, hey, we got I got some
of these three tens that Jason and I have been
loaded for years here and I just loaded a bunch
of those the other night, and I'm gonna I'm gonna
go schwack something with that. And you know what other

(01:48:16):
thing can you put identify that? It's like, I think, Jason,
you took some like four some different four sixty bullets
and loads to Africa and that people would give you.
I mean, how cool is that? Right?

Speaker 5 (01:48:29):
I took?

Speaker 4 (01:48:30):
I had I had one of the loads I used
in Africa was these uh three hundred and ninety grand
cast hollow points for uh.

Speaker 5 (01:48:37):
The four eighty for some of the smaller stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:48:39):
And I had some that were cast by three different
shootists that I brought and I loaded them with the
same loads and shot stuff with each of them.

Speaker 5 (01:48:47):
So you know, just stuff like that, man, it makes it.
It makes it more special. And uh, you know, you
can't I don't know it just you don't seem to have.

Speaker 4 (01:48:55):
That when when it comes to the tactical bro world.
It seems like you know, but I.

Speaker 5 (01:49:01):
Don't know's it's These things are are so cool.

Speaker 4 (01:49:06):
You got great leather, guys like Branty, you got guys
like simply Rugged. They're making these great chest rigs and
holsters for these guns that are set up correctly, because
you know why, those guys carry big boar revolvers on
a daily basis too, so they know what works, they
know what doesn't work. And you know, it's really hard

(01:49:27):
to beat a good old fashioned River single action revolver,
even though even the old down and dirty seven and
a half into Super black Hawk that's as you know,
as you know, is available every pawn shop in America
for the longest time I can remember, makes a great
gateway into that world, and you can do some pretty
pretty heavy stuff at forty four magnum with those guns. Personally,

(01:49:50):
I suggest a busy grip frame if you're going to
go into the real risk breakers. I think, I think
when you get beyond forty four magnum and you start
getting into that five shot forty five world, you really
need to go to the bus league. You know this
this gun is at four eighty, you know, And I'll
just tell you some basic stuff for guys who are
thinking about doing something custom.

Speaker 5 (01:50:10):
You know, Yeah, y'all might have touched the talk about.

Speaker 4 (01:50:14):
You know, cylinder throats and stuff like that and forcing cones,
you know, on the other podcast, that's important. That's really
the lifeblood.

Speaker 5 (01:50:20):
That he's getting these guns to shoot is.

Speaker 4 (01:50:22):
Making sure that your bullets are sized for the barrel
and for the throats, and you know, you kind.

Speaker 5 (01:50:28):
Of want to look at it thinking of as a funnel.

Speaker 4 (01:50:30):
If you're shooting a four or five two diameter bullet,
that that boar diameter is going to be four five
one and that and that you want your throats.

Speaker 5 (01:50:38):
Four five three or four five two five and that way.

Speaker 4 (01:50:42):
Everything is hitting it just right and you're getting a
good gas seal. That's how you build that pressure, That's
how you get that velocity, That's how you keep that accuracy.
You know, you want that cylinder gap fairly tight. You
want an oversized liking base pin on these big boars. Uh,
These spring loaded latches will will launch these suckers and
tie the.

Speaker 1 (01:50:59):
Kind of up.

Speaker 4 (01:51:00):
So the good thing is Andy Larson at Skinner Sites
has bought belt mountain base pins and they're available again.
So that's a that's that's the first thing that I
buy for any of my rug single actions is one
of the Belt Mountain based pins.

Speaker 3 (01:51:16):
That is great. It was the first one Ruger put
a lock and base pen.

Speaker 5 (01:51:20):
It is yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:51:21):
That so on that gun when we did the testing
on it, we're like, it's got to have a lock
and base pen. It's not oversized though they with standard diameter.
So Belt Mountain does make an oversize one like this one,
and so it takes a little bit of a slop
out of the cylinder. It's not much, but it's subtle
and I like it. Firman Garza did the gold beaf
front sight on this gun. I highly recommend if you're

(01:51:42):
going to do a big board gun, make it where
you can change the front site because you're gonna you
might want to have a four hundred grain at twelve
hundred load for hunting, which you also might want to
shoot a three fifty five at nine point fifty for
your everyday load. And that you know, there's no handgun
platform that has a more vertical point of impact shift

(01:52:04):
than a single action revolver. It's just the guns recoil.
I mean, they're they're designed to recoil like that. So
if it's if it's recoiling faster because it's shooting heavy load,
it's gonna shoot higher. I mean, there's just no way
around that. And you really don't want to be cranking
up and down on your rear site a whole lot.
It's a lot easier to control that with your front site.

Speaker 5 (01:52:22):
So easy to.

Speaker 4 (01:52:24):
Change front site, big deal there the rear site. If
you can get a bow and rear site, that's that's
the gold standard, especially in these big bores.

Speaker 3 (01:52:33):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:52:33):
The factory sites are okay, but they're not great. You
can get a little you can get more more action
going with the heavy recoil that the bow in site
is locked in. You won't get that point of impact
shift so much. You know, your basic action work stuff
like that. I like Makarta. On these big bores, you're
not going to break it.

Speaker 5 (01:52:52):
It's not going to crack.

Speaker 1 (01:52:53):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:52:53):
You know, the last thing you want to do is
be in Africa and have a grip of a panel
crack on you that that'd be bad for your hunt.
McCarter's not going to do that. This Bobby Tyler made
these grips. He's got a nice little palm swell in
the middle. John Linebass started that in a lot of
his guns, and that really locks these guns into your palm,
especially since the recoil is going like this.

Speaker 5 (01:53:17):
That's kind of what I do to mind.

Speaker 4 (01:53:18):
And you know, honestly, it's not a super expensive deal
to start dealing caliber conversions. You know, you take a
forty five cold or a forty four magnum and send
into one of these custom guys and they build it
into a four to seventy five or a five hundred.

Speaker 5 (01:53:31):
Now you're getting at expense because.

Speaker 4 (01:53:32):
You're barrel, it's a new cylinder, They're having to retime
the gun all that kind of stuff. But if you
take a box stock for eighty ruger or a four
to fifty four Casole, or even a forty five cold
or forty four magnum, you can you can do some
basic stuff to these guns and get them shooting pretty good,
pretty quick. If your throats are tight, that's actually not
as bad of a problem as being oversized. Firman and

(01:53:56):
Garza can can open them up for you. If they're
oversized at that point, either you're having to size of
bullets bigger or get another cylinder and reach amber it.

Speaker 5 (01:54:05):
That's probably your best bet.

Speaker 4 (01:54:07):
But you know, these big boars, really cast bullets are
probably the answer For one, you get free velocity. There's
not as much friction in the boar, so you can
drive a four hundred grain cast bullet faster with the
same powder charge as you can with a jacket a bullet,
and quite honestly, the expansion is really not needed. This
bullet is a four hundred and ten grain hardcast wide

(01:54:28):
flatten those up before eighty. This is a buffalo boar
load that I shot a wilder beast at one hundred
yards with and recovered it, and I mean it barely
deformed the job.

Speaker 6 (01:54:37):
Where was the bullet in the wild to beast shot at?

Speaker 4 (01:54:42):
I shot at an angle and it it kind of
went forward out like this, and then it was large.
I could actually see the lump as it was running
off its offside in the punch.

Speaker 6 (01:54:51):
And h so I shot. I think we're probably I mean,
I feel like the number of people who have shot
a wild a beast with a handgun is not a
significant number of people. But there's two of us on
this call. And that's weird that that's that's like, that's
how you know when you're in the really like pointy
end of the sphere of.

Speaker 5 (01:55:15):
Right like the panel A shot a Wilder in the handgun.

Speaker 6 (01:55:19):
Right, because I shot one with the forty four mag
with that Barnes two twenty five load, and it was,
I mean, and it was. I had a perfect presentation
for it, like he was standing broadside. I shot him
right at the top of the shoulder. The bullet blew
the shoulder out, lung, heart lung, and it came to

(01:55:39):
rest on the other side of the skin and you
could basically like squeeze it out. I keep that bullet
on my desk And when I tell you that it
looks like it looks like an ad for a hollow
point that you would see in a magazine. Yeah, it does.
I mean. That was one of those where and you
guys say, you know, you've had these experiences where you're like,

(01:56:01):
you can read about a thing, but then you do
it and you see the actual real performance of that
projectile and a five hundred pound animal, and you're like, oh,
I'm sold. Yeah, I'm good. I know what this is
going to do.

Speaker 1 (01:56:15):
Well. I'm getting a real kick out of single actions lately, because.

Speaker 6 (01:56:20):
Yeah, you are. It cost me money.

Speaker 1 (01:56:24):
I have worked worked on a lot of Smith revolvers.
I built a lot of nineteen eleven's and single actions
have their like factory rugers. They have their their own
little qurps, but they're incredibly simple, and I can take
a factory gun like I'll give you an example. Darryl

(01:56:47):
and I picked up a couple of three point seventy
forty four magnums or Taylo guns, and they're with a
jacket and bullet. They shot fine. I'm a big cast
lead guy, so I get mine out and it's got
the telltale ring right in front of the forcing cone,
which was eleven degrees by the way. I was like,
thank god, they finally did that. But I had to

(01:57:10):
get lapping compound out, roll bullets and lapping compound and
do all this stuff, and I fire lapped them. I
correct made sure the chamber throats were perfect, honed, honed
the chambers with a ball hone, and then I take
a mandrel and I work up to twelve hundred grit

(01:57:31):
emery clock polish the forcing cones out, and I do
all this stuff in my garage with like a power drill,
and I've got reamers and things like that. But that really,
like I took Daryl to the range, I had done
all that stuff to his gun just like mine, and
I said, hey, we're going to fire lap the barrel

(01:57:52):
and he's like, I've never done that. And I load
up all the AMMO and I watched his groups go
from like at ten yards like two and a half
inches to like three quarters of an inch within the
span of like forty rounds. And then I'm peeling a
lead out of the barrel between each each cylinder, and

(01:58:13):
I clean him up, and then he throws his jacket
and bullets in and shoots like a one whole group
at ten yards and he's like, holy crap. You know.
So I get with the single actions kind of like
nineteen eleven's. I get a real satisfaction at it, taking
something that's like, you know, it's it's good and making
it just perfect right. And then I've put in oversized

(01:58:37):
cylinder stops. You know, my forty five coal has a
super Blackhawk hammer in it. I do the action work
on him, you know, oversized base pins, things like that,
and you know, it's not something that Joe average can do,
but it's not unattainable for Joe average to learn how
to do that, you know, power cut them. I've spent

(01:59:01):
a lot of money with power custom mansons and uh,
you know, tap magic cutting fluid and a lot of
this stuff. And I have sent Furman Garza a lot
of money in the last year.

Speaker 6 (01:59:14):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:59:14):
But but a lot of that stuff with just a
plane Jane Factory Blackhawk man with like a little bit
of know how and like the Kunehausen manual and you
can make those things just awesome and uh and then
you know, once you get them all awesome, then you start. Yeah,

(01:59:36):
there you go. Then you you start, you get a leak, right,
you get you get the lee casting pot and you're
reading Tancouver articles and you know you're filing the filing
your bullet seed dies flat.

Speaker 6 (01:59:53):
And if you're at that level, uh, I will just
hand you one of my revolver degenerate pins. You don't
need to do a shooting task or anything like that.
If you were at the point where you are filing
bullet molds. That is a level of revolver degeneracy that
is reserved for the truly depraved.

Speaker 5 (02:00:15):
Yeah, you would lose your mind k a little bit.

Speaker 1 (02:00:18):
You know.

Speaker 6 (02:00:18):
It's funny. So the one thing, the one line that
I have never been able to cross it to is
reloading right, like I can shoot these guns at a
very high level. I can do. You know, I can
work on these guns at a reasonable level. But I've
just I've never been able to cross the line into reloading.

(02:00:41):
And I just think it's and honestly, I think it's
because I don't have the right flavor of autism for that,
Like I have the flavor of autism for like, what
can I do you know when I am pressing this
trigger in the point three five of a second it
takes me to press this trigger. How can I press
this trigger slightly differently to keep from moving the gun

(02:01:03):
that much less to shoot an eider group or whatever.
That's the flavor I got. But then the people are like, well,
I've spent twelve years, we're finding my forty four magnum load.
And I'm like, God, bless you, my child, because I
But you know what's funny is like I, as consumers,
we benefit from those people because even you know, at
the very nerdy individual loading level, that information works its

(02:01:28):
way back. Right, Like the quality of commercially loaded AMMO
that I can get for forty four magnum today is
way is way better than what I could have got
twenty thirty years ago, right the barnsload. I was just
talking about the two hundred and twenty five grand solid
coppers call a point that's loaded by federal and it's not.
And what's great about it is, I don't know how

(02:01:51):
they figured it out, but a bunch of nerds sat
down and they're like, we don't actually need to drive
this bullet at you know, sixteen hundred and fifteen hundred
feet per second. We can drive it at twelve hundred
feet per second, and it actually penetrates better and expands
better if we ratchet it back. And you guys, we
all remember when everything was all about pushing the bullet

(02:02:13):
as fast as you could fucking possibly could, and we.

Speaker 3 (02:02:16):
Hor for somebody.

Speaker 6 (02:02:17):
Yeah, oh god, ormone, Yeah exactly. But we you know,
because of handloaders, that information is trickled back into the
mainstream where we're like, hang on, two hundred twenty five
grand solid copper, hollow point doesn't need to be going
whatever insane muscle blotsity, which then makes it more shootable

(02:02:38):
and makes it more approachable for other people. So really,
it's not about if you are looking to get into
big bore wheel guns, and now is actually a really
good time to do it because the availability of products
that run from an affordable quality, like doing it at
forty four magnum. Go get yourself a Taurus M forty

(02:02:59):
four in a six inch gun. Uh, it's like seven
hundred dollars and it's a great gun. Uh and you're
not going to break the bank. Or you can go
and get yourself a really expensive gun. There's never been,
honestly gun industry why but for revolvers, for big bore revolvers,

(02:03:21):
There's never been a better time to get into it.
We have more products, better products, better values, better piece
of better people popping them up in John's than we've
ever had before.

Speaker 3 (02:03:31):
Factory Limo is the best it's ever been by a
wide margin. And guns, to some degree, I don't see
it as much with handguns unfortunately. Rifles, man like, it's
the golden major rifles and optics and factory ammo.

Speaker 1 (02:03:45):
It's it's oh aw right now, yeah, Caleb, I think
I will gift you. I have I have the perfect
gift for you. But since you're flying to revolve around, oh,
is it a no at revolver?

Speaker 6 (02:04:02):
Is that it full yet?

Speaker 1 (02:04:03):
Brain? Or?

Speaker 6 (02:04:04):
Can people still sign up it?

Speaker 1 (02:04:06):
Well? Here's the kicker. My good friend, my dear friend,
Justin Dile called me the other day and his schedule
opened up. So I opened ten more seats and are
actually fifteen and I think we have ten left. But
Justin Dile, how many people get to train with him
with a revolver, right, like the dude that shoots one

(02:04:29):
hundred perfect one hundreds every year with a revolver. Like
that guy, he's going to be a honor instructor cadre.

Speaker 3 (02:04:37):
But I was thinking that it's in the website, like
do the.

Speaker 1 (02:04:40):
Market, Yeah, Revolver revolverfest dot com. There's ten or eleven
seats left. Demo day twenty five bucks. Just show up
Clinton House, South Carolina.

Speaker 6 (02:04:56):
I could promise you guys that Taurus USA will have
enough ammunition for you to shoot. I don't know that's
another manufacturer.

Speaker 1 (02:05:03):
You caused a bit of a storm the other day.
But anyway, uh, three hours of phone calls later, it
was like, Okay, we got to figure it out, but.

Speaker 6 (02:05:12):
Ye'll appreciate this, Jason. So I posted just a throwaway
picture on my Instagram of all of the ammo I
am bringing to this event from Taurus USA, and was
like yeah, just for demo day. And another manufacturer was like,
that's a lot of ammo. Are we not bringing enough ammo?
You can never bring enough, So yeah, because they don't

(02:05:33):
know whatever, I don't sho just comes back to my house.

Speaker 5 (02:05:35):
That's right exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:05:38):
So we got justin dile and we added Bruce Couscart
right because unless you're in Montana, you're not going to
get a chance to train with him. Bob, I will bring.
I have an RCBS single stage from about nineteen seventy two.
I will bring. I will gift it to you.

Speaker 6 (02:05:58):
Is this like the first this free kind of shit?
Is this in like nineteen eighties crack dealer shit? Like,
oh man, we'll give you this one. You're gonna like it, and.

Speaker 1 (02:06:08):
I'll give it to you because I at one time
I calculated I had loaded somewhere in the neighborhood of
thirty five thousand rounds on it. And for every round,
that's four poles of the handle. So you can do math,
but I don't like math.

Speaker 6 (02:06:24):
But gross but a lot.

Speaker 1 (02:06:27):
But when you're putting that much time and care into it,
when you're when your standard deviation out of a super
Blackhawk is like six it's pretty. It gives you a
warm fuzzy but uh, I get that.

Speaker 6 (02:06:40):
Yeah, And I think for me with reloading, and I
think a lot of people are sort of like this
if you came to revolvers from the semi automatic pistol world,
right like, if you're a volume shooter on semi automatic pistols.
For with the exception of the brief time during COVID,
Ammo was so cheap that your cost investment time to like,

(02:07:05):
I'm gonna buy all the equipment, I'm figure out how
to reload this versus just buying cases a blazer off
of you know whatever, Lucky Gunner dot com. They're a sponsor.
You should buy AMMA from them. I got you met.
I know it's up h versus buying am off Lucky Gunner.
It didn't make a whole lot of sense necessarily, right, Like,
if you're choosing to spend time reloading your nine mail

(02:07:26):
Ammo versus spending time with your kids, you might be
making wrong choices. But I was sort of lucky because
I did all of this high volume competition shooting where
I'm just buying factory you know, nine mil and then
thirty eight and all of that and it's pretty good,
decent AMMO. And then when I finally got back into

(02:07:48):
big boar shooting in a way where AMMO mattered to me,
because when I was just blasting rounds out of my
fifty eight Remington and my Horst Seller Tracker, I don't
really care about AMMO. Now I care Factory. Amma's really
fucking good. Like it's you know, it's so much better
than it was twenty or thirty years ago.

Speaker 3 (02:08:07):
I'm not for this stuff though. Is cheap?

Speaker 1 (02:08:09):
Yeah? What man? I can? You know?

Speaker 3 (02:08:13):
I think when I look at my reloading room kind
of like Jason, like I just bought a new house.
I was signing the contract when I stepped away, and
it's entirely so I can have an eight hundred square
foot reloading room. Hell yeah, the entire the entire I'd
love it. Nice place. The gun room and reloading room
is all I care about. Some of the stuff I shoot.

(02:08:35):
You know, I have to reload for uh, even the
four eighty. The factory loads, you know, if you want
to shoot dear with them, they're great. The XTP year
and then I think they do what a dg X
in it?

Speaker 1 (02:08:47):
Now?

Speaker 5 (02:08:47):
Maybe No, I think it's just a three twenty five
XTP is.

Speaker 1 (02:08:50):
All a day.

Speaker 4 (02:08:51):
Yeah, spear made like a three twenty five gold Dodd
But yeah, looking heavy, bro Un, Let's go to Buffalo Boar.

Speaker 3 (02:08:58):
Like Buffalo bar and I mean Buffalo boar I think
is four dollars around somewhere around there. Yeah, great, great stuff.
He does it right, But like that's not for me, man,
I want to shoot more than that four bucks around.
I'll they'll go shoot my three thirty eight or my
double rifle at that point. So I got to reload
for it. Same thing with the five hundreds, Like you've

(02:09:18):
got so much versatility in those forty five colt to
definitely have to reload for it to get the most
out of it.

Speaker 4 (02:09:25):
Big big bore revolvers a handload, and you have to
not only for the expense, but also it allows you
to download to the level.

Speaker 5 (02:09:36):
I mean, you know all you had was full power.

Speaker 4 (02:09:39):
You know, for eighty to shoot all the time, you
wouldn't be able to see as much of Anyways.

Speaker 3 (02:09:43):
As you watch your shelf slowly go from H one
ten and HP thirty eight to HP thirty eight in
the last one ten.

Speaker 5 (02:09:51):
Exactly, it's so funny when when during COVID, I said.

Speaker 4 (02:09:54):
I gotta do a primer, uh, you know, primer count here,
figure out where I'm at, because your primer for going
all crazy everything. And I looked at my large prystal
primers and I had like ten thousand magnum primers, you
know it was. It was ten x for pistol magnum
prommers I had then the large primers, and I'm like, well,

(02:10:15):
that just shows me I haven't loaded.

Speaker 5 (02:10:16):
A whole lot of magnum here lately, you know, age.

Speaker 4 (02:10:19):
One ten, And you're right, you just tend to not
use it as much. You start to find that that. Okay,
let me let me load something in that four hundred
grain at about ten to fifty range that you're not
necessarily going to find in a factory load or vice versa.
I might want a forty five cold, I might want
to shoot at three hundred grain at eleven to fifty, which.

Speaker 5 (02:10:36):
Is gonna be hard to find in a factory load,
and so it's almost a necessity.

Speaker 4 (02:10:40):
And that's not even including you start getting into the
line balls and the jrh's and everything else. So yeah,
if you're going to get into the large wore handgun stuff.
I would highly suggest learning how to handload, and probably
not your first handloads. You should probably go out there
do is your five hundred line ball loads.

Speaker 5 (02:10:58):
You probably you know, get some thirty.

Speaker 4 (02:10:59):
Eight best dies and and kind of tweak your tweak
everything that with those first and you'll enjoy that too,
by the way. But yeah, I mean pretty much large
borehand guns, handloading, good leather holsters, casts.

Speaker 5 (02:11:15):
And custom guns. That's good you It's going to be
your world, man.

Speaker 4 (02:11:19):
But the great thing is it's a great world to
be in and people it's a it's a tight knit thing,
and there's a lot of good people in it, and
there's a lot of good people making good gear these days.

Speaker 1 (02:11:28):
So it's good place.

Speaker 3 (02:11:29):
Everybody is real helpful, it is. It's nice. It's a
very different world.

Speaker 5 (02:11:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:11:33):
And that's like me.

Speaker 1 (02:11:35):
I handload sheerly for accuracy, and there is nothing like
the feeling of you know, I decked a Turkey about
five years ago with a forty four mag load that
I came up with that was like two fifty I say,
I came up with it. I are somebody had already

(02:11:56):
done it. But it's like ten grains of shotgun powder
and a bull that I cast made a sixty two
yard neck shot on a turkey because of nerd shit
oh man. Because with a four and five eighths inch
stainless Super black Hawk, I could go out and shoot
like five inch groups at one hundred yards with this gun.
I was like, oh my god. The other the other day,

(02:12:19):
the Taylor guns that we picked up at Lizzie's, I
fire lapped barrels, lapped the forcing cones, made sure the
chambers were all right, and at twenty five yards, I'm
shooting like inchin of quarter groups with that like standing
off hand, like you know, factory m O. There's some

(02:12:42):
like gold medal match. You're going to get that out
of a thirty eight maybe, but when you really put
that extra like five percent into the handload and.

Speaker 5 (02:12:55):
Those are in barrels too, you know it?

Speaker 1 (02:13:00):
Dude?

Speaker 3 (02:13:00):
I just so, what was it?

Speaker 6 (02:13:03):
Brian just triggered her memory the one hundred and eighty
five grain gold Medal match semi wad cutter forty five
acp out of the five inch six twenty fives. Ye
was a sub two inch at fifty yards load out

(02:13:25):
on those guns. That was I don't know whatever, And
I'm sure because I know Smith and Wesson. I'm sure
that there was actually a specific dash of six twenty
five that that was the best out of But you had, yeah,
the six twenty five forty five ACP with that load.
I'm when I and also just an absolute pussy cat

(02:13:48):
to shoot because those one eighty five gold medal match
rounds were they were well they were they were you know,
for our gamers out there, they were minor power factor.
They were a forty five ACP round that was only
making a one forty power factor, which is just a
it's a mouse fart out of a semi auto. And
they wouldn't run a nineteen eleven unless you had, you know,

(02:14:10):
super light springs and a bunch of other shit, but
out of a six twenty five. When I tell you,
oh man, that, like Brian just like brought back a
whole memory. I was like, oh my god. Those guns.
So if you ever want to have like the most
pleasant big boar revolver shooting experience ever, go get some
of those rounds, because Federal will still make them from
time to time. Go on gun broker and get a

(02:14:32):
five inch six twenty five. Go to Apex's website and
get their enframe action kit, then watch a bunch of
YouTube videos so that you can learn how to install
this inframe action kit without fucking up your gun. You're
still going to fuck up your gun, but once you
finally get it right, that combination will be so pleasant

(02:14:54):
to shoot that you will. It's it's like shooting a
one hundred and forty eight grain Gold Medal match Wold
cutter out of an l frame Like it's just such
a ah. That was man, I forgot fun though. I
want to go buy an inframe now, damn it.

Speaker 3 (02:15:12):
Well, I'm super excited.

Speaker 6 (02:15:15):
Yeah, that's clearly.

Speaker 3 (02:15:16):
What I mean.

Speaker 4 (02:15:17):
That's about the Blackhawks and forty five cold and you
can get an ACP convertible cylinder. That makes a very
cheap alternative to shoot those guns. It's the same gun
you're hunting with. And the good thing was to be
a single action. You don't have you don't have to
screw around moon clips or any of that kind of stuff,
which makes that you know, anybody's got a lot of
ACP rounds laying around or whatever, or has access right now,

(02:15:39):
it's pretty cheap to buy factory.

Speaker 5 (02:15:40):
We don't have to handload it. But that that makes
that ace that.

Speaker 4 (02:15:44):
Forty five Colt convertible even that much more versatile in
a great buy. I mean, just in the amount of
money you'll save on practice AMO with the ACP cylinder.
It'll pay for the gun versus buying the equivalent gun
and forty four Magnum because.

Speaker 6 (02:15:59):
Even if you, oh, no, it will not pay for
the gun, guys, you will just end up spending more
money on forty five a CPMO. I mean, but definitely
get the gun. That was.

Speaker 1 (02:16:12):
Man, Come on, yeah, you're broken nineteen eleven mag that
will you know, jack up whatever your pet nineteen eleven is.
You throw that in your semi auto or your single
action bag. Thank you Chauncey State Line Shoots for that
pro tip.

Speaker 4 (02:16:32):
Did you See's latest video though, where he was loading
a single action with speed strips? Yes, reverse. I was like, dude,
I never thought about doing it that way I was, and.

Speaker 6 (02:16:45):
The way he was doing it like it was. It
was so crazy that I actually got my one of
my so Hey guys tourist a single action. I got
one of my single actions and a bunch of speed strips,
and I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna do it the way
he does it, and then I'm gonna do it the
way that it seems more intuitive to me. And then
I was like, when I tell you, I ate up

(02:17:06):
a good hour of dry firetime fucking loading this single
action gun, being like, wait, which one of these is
actually faster? Because as I've said, that's the flavor of
autism that I got up.

Speaker 3 (02:17:19):
You don't reload.

Speaker 6 (02:17:20):
Yeah see, but you know that, Uh, this guy guy,
he's great his videos. I love him, Like that's the
kind of shit that I am here for.

Speaker 3 (02:17:30):
He's awesome. Man, he's such a nice guy too.

Speaker 1 (02:17:33):
He's great.

Speaker 4 (02:17:33):
Well again, it's people who live with these guns on
a day to day basis and they figure out what works,
not like going on internet forums and and having a
bitch moan infest about this over that, they go out
there and actually do this stuff. And that's I mean,
that's what you'll find in the big worst single action
world is guys. Most a lot of guys who actually
go out and use their stuff and do their stuff.
And you know that when you know a lot of

(02:17:57):
the guys who are really the innovators and the stuff
back in the Lakes seventies and eighties, that's how they
that's how they developed all this. So I remember Jim Taylor,
who was really kind of the unsung hero of that group.
With Jim, with John Taffan and all those guys. I mean,
he was experimenting with all kind of crazy stuff, you know,
using different materials for bullet loubes and all this different stuff.

(02:18:20):
And they figured all this stuff out just by going
out and shooting tens of thousands of rounds of these guns.
And yeah, that's kind of how the whole shoot Is
Holiday started, was people getting together once a year to
kind of say, hey, the last eleven months I've been
playing with this, what are you investing with? Okay, this
is what I tried. And they'd figure all this stuff
out and that's you know, it was just a real

(02:18:42):
learn by using experience, which now unfortunately a lot of
people have lost because now they just go on Google
and now they're experts in twenty minutes because they you know,
they raide they did the AI summation of Big Moore
six guns, you know. So but you know that's that's
the beautiful thing is you can go out there and
get satisfaction of playing with different bullet diameters for your

(02:19:04):
cast loads, and stuff like that, and figuring out, Man,
it's nothing better than when you're you're working up a
load for your forty five coal and at twenty grains
of H one to ten and at three inner grain
bullet you're shooting, ok, twenty and a half grains.

Speaker 5 (02:19:17):
It's doing all right.

Speaker 4 (02:19:18):
Then at twenty one, all of a sudden, the grounds
just the group just shrinks into this and okay, we're here.
And then at twenty one and a half it starts
opening back up again or whatever, and it's just finds
that that happy spot and then you know, then you
go load a thousand of them and you shoot those
for the next year, and then you know it. But
then the next forty five cold it might be something different.

Speaker 5 (02:19:38):
You know. It's just kind of the way it works.

Speaker 4 (02:19:39):
I think John Taffan was kind of famous for saying
that every gun's a law in to itself.

Speaker 5 (02:19:44):
He was a percent right on that.

Speaker 1 (02:19:47):
So some of us have the great fortune to have
Tankcouver's cell phone number on tap, like and uh yeah,
I can go, hey, dude, I got this powder of
this bullet, this prime or this case, get me in
the ballpark, you know. And I again, I mean I
can't say enough good things about Tank, like he is

(02:20:08):
carrying that torch right now and he's doing a fine
job of it. So but yeah, the uh and then
Furman there is there's an article on Doc Barante's site
where Furman talks about cylinder throats and fire lapping, which man,

(02:20:28):
that is invaluable. And I have resurrected some guns that
I was like, I don't think I can get this
one to shoot. And Darryl and I went and taught
in Wyoming this last weekend and I took a six
twenty four that was just problematic, and I ran it
through all my trickery and then I fire lapped it

(02:20:50):
right before we left, cleaned it out, had not shot
the gun since, and because my dear friend Bob Ridecki
was there to stand in solid air already, I shot
a forty four special on day one with the six
twenty four and that gun was shooting one whole groups
to ten yards and I was like, there it is.
And I wouldn't have been able to achieve that if

(02:21:13):
it wasn't for Tancouver giving me some load data, John
Kinnip sending me some Skeeter and lineball loads firm and
Garza telling me how to fire lap a barrel. You know,
all those things came together to make that happen. And
I think in tactical world we get used to, Ah,

(02:21:38):
you buy American Eagle one forty seven, you put it
in a Gen five clock and things just work out
weapon like right, and all that tertiary stuff. But you know,
in revolver space, it's like the guns have a personality,
and if you're interested in those guns, you're gonna eventually
find the personalities and the people out there to help

(02:22:01):
make you successful. And uh, and that's something that John
Knipe and I have talked about this a lot. It's
a real breadth of fresh air instead of arguing about
you know, what m O a ur dot needs to
be or how many lumens and candela are light needs
to be. To hey man, that's a cool revolver. What

(02:22:22):
load are you shooting?

Speaker 7 (02:22:24):
You know?

Speaker 1 (02:22:24):
I mean, like we don't argue. We just share information
and it's great.

Speaker 3 (02:22:29):
We could just get ruder to stop over torqu and barrels.

Speaker 5 (02:22:33):
Yeah, but you know, I like this deal is an issue.

Speaker 1 (02:22:38):
It can be, but I like the fun of going.
Then I wouldn't get the fire lap right, that gives
me an excuse now, and.

Speaker 5 (02:22:47):
That's that's a little too much for me.

Speaker 4 (02:22:49):
It's like, I want not going to be thread choked,
so I can go have the fun of fire lapping.

Speaker 5 (02:22:53):
And that that you.

Speaker 6 (02:22:55):
The fun of fire lapping. It is not a statement
that normal people.

Speaker 1 (02:22:59):
I mean, that gives me the excuse to go in
the garage and load, you know, five grains of HP
thirty eight and turn bullets upside down after I've rolled
them between metal plates that I got at the local
hardware store. So I've I've been injected money into my

(02:23:20):
local economy for a couple of pieces of scrap steel,
you know. And I've got some bullets that I bought
from some other guy that are soft cast. And then
I get a JB Lapping compound kit from another so
you know, it's like I'm patronizing a whole bunch of
different companies just to put fifty rounds of AMMO down

(02:23:43):
my barrel. I mean, that's a cool feeling, right, And
then to see the end results of that, And when
I can take up brush and lead just falls out
of the gun, I don't have to like dig it out.
It's like, yeah, man, that's a cool feeling, and I
got actually loads some more because lou Guysnell is bringing
a forty four Magnvacaro to the Revolver Fest and he's like,

(02:24:08):
I think it's thread joked. I'll make up a lapping
kit for you. That's I mean, you don't get that
in nine millimeter world. You don't get that in ay
our world. You only get that in like the serious
revolver degeneracy world.

Speaker 6 (02:24:25):
Right, But guys, not to put you off of a
folver degenderacy. You don't actually need to care about thread
lapping or all of this other nerdery to get involved
in this, because you can go to the story and
you can buy a cult Anaconda in forty four magnum
or a Taurust raising Hunter and forty four magnum and
just do that. You don't actually have to, like you

(02:24:45):
gotta like and I'm joking, Brandon, I've known you show
it for a while now, and so I'm obviously taking
the piss. But the Gateway drugs or Gateway drugs for
a reason, like Brian is on the enhanced distilled fentanyl
level of this at this point, like whatever, like he's

(02:25:08):
so far gone, we can't bring him back. But like
if you just want to do like the marijuana gummies
of Big Bor. Hey, I'm trying to speak to the
people here, all right.

Speaker 1 (02:25:21):
Bad thing is I am not nearly the degenerate that
Ronnie Wells or Bourbon.

Speaker 6 (02:25:29):
Yeah, podcasts, you're here on the podcast right, there's podcasts.

Speaker 1 (02:25:36):
They're making it. They're making they're cooking the drugs. Man.

Speaker 6 (02:25:39):
Yeah, they're cooking the drugs that they're giving to you.
But for real guys, like if you want like the
entry level version of this that you know, to use
the joke again, the marijuana gummy, you know. That's that's
the great thing about these faction produced for polvers, right,
Like a super Red Hawk is not that expensive, a
Raging Hunter is not that expensive. And they're great guns

(02:26:01):
and for the vast majority of end users, they will
do everything that you need the gun to do.

Speaker 1 (02:26:09):
Right.

Speaker 6 (02:26:10):
They will put a hole in both sides of a deer.
They will shoot pretty good groups, you know mine in Africa. Yeah,
my personal crusade about shooting these guns double action aside
you shoot them in single action. They've all got pretty
good triggers. Like it's not like I said, it's a
really good time to get into this, and the bar

(02:26:31):
for entry because factory AMO is good, because the guns
are good, is lower than it's ever been. Uh. And
you know, because you know these we all remember when
it was like, oh, you want to do like weirdo
high caliber Magnum revolver stuff. I hope you've got two
grand for the gun, and you can't buy AMMO like

(02:26:51):
good luck, you know, but you can go buy a
four to sixty or hell, go to your local pawn shop.
And this this is actual advice because I do. I
go to my pawn shops here in South Carolina all
the time, and I see more of two very specific guns.
I see more super red hawks and tourist raging hunters

(02:27:14):
with almost no turn lines on the cylinders. And what
that tells me is people bought THISSCA and they put
a cylinder of AMMO through it. They put it back
in their safe, and then when it came time to
buy diapers, make a car payment, buy tires for their car,
something like that, they took that ship into the pawn
shop because they never ever shot it. There's so many
really good four fifty four casule raging hunters floating around

(02:27:37):
pawnshops right now for like seven hundred bucks, go get one.

Speaker 3 (02:27:43):
Well, hey, look, I just want you to know I
only shoot double action guns. On double action.

Speaker 6 (02:27:48):
That's because you're a real fucking man.

Speaker 3 (02:27:50):
That was five hundred too.

Speaker 1 (02:27:53):
Well, dude, I got a n But.

Speaker 5 (02:27:59):
The cables point.

Speaker 4 (02:28:02):
If you're shooting jacketed bullets, a lot of the stuff
we were ramming about, it really doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 (02:28:08):
It doesn't matter the.

Speaker 4 (02:28:09):
Jacketed bullet stuff. And for most people who are getting
into it, jacketed bullets and regrets. And I tell you
a little side benefit. You can fire lap a barrel
by shooting a bunch of jacket of bullets.

Speaker 5 (02:28:18):
It's just just.

Speaker 4 (02:28:20):
As cheap as doing it with a bunch of cash
bullets with Brian's.

Speaker 6 (02:28:23):
Also, if your gun likes and this is one of
those where I am very like like again having seen
their performance, and not just with the forty four Mac.
If your gun likes the Barns solid popper hollow points,
your your set. Just get those. Buying them, buy them
from Barns, buy them from Federal. I don't care where

(02:28:45):
you get them. But if your gun likes those, because
not all guns do like them, Some guns don't like
them that much. But if you get a gun that
likes them, great, you're done.

Speaker 4 (02:28:53):
There's very few guns that I found that don't like
were any xtps.

Speaker 6 (02:28:58):
So yeah, bullet as.

Speaker 4 (02:29:00):
They're cheap and they worked great. We killed a bunch
of stuff with them.

Speaker 6 (02:29:06):
I get three cases of one of the xtps that
I'm bringing to Revolver fests.

Speaker 1 (02:29:11):
So there you go.

Speaker 6 (02:29:14):
So well, Brian's done. I'm also done.

Speaker 1 (02:29:17):
Yeah, but uh, you know I was. I was in
this beautiful paradise of Wyoming last weekend and I kind
of need to spend some fan time. So uh but
as much as I would love nothing more than to
you know, degenerate out with you guys, but I'm sure

(02:29:38):
we'll do it again.

Speaker 5 (02:29:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:29:40):
Reloading episode too.

Speaker 1 (02:29:43):
Oh gosh.

Speaker 2 (02:29:44):
Yeah, and I messaged Tank. I don't think he received it,
but we'll.

Speaker 3 (02:29:49):
Get we'll get what we get. We can get ahold
of tank.

Speaker 1 (02:29:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:29:53):
So before you guys take off and Brian, I'll have
you go first for big boors.

Speaker 3 (02:29:58):
What is your preferred.

Speaker 2 (02:30:00):
Choice in caliber and gun and what do you use
it for?

Speaker 3 (02:30:05):
And then where can people you see?

Speaker 1 (02:30:08):
Preferred choice of gun is probably like I'm real hot
on forty four mag in super black Hawks right now,
especially the stainless guns, because my idea of gun maintenance
is shoot them ntil they quit working and then sell them.
So if you see that, yeah, but you can't kill
the rulers man. So but I like the forty four

(02:30:30):
mag stainless super black Hawks. I'm pretty high on those,
and mainly because I can go from forty four special
loads in a forty four mag case to hang on
it's getting sporty and it kind of all points in
between forty four mag. The other thing is if you're
in Wyoming and you stop into the you know, haircare,

(02:30:54):
tire store, Slash, sporting goods store, Slash, they yeah, they
generally have some flavor of forty four mag Ammo. So
that that's kind.

Speaker 3 (02:31:05):
Of exactly would store you in in and found that
lot of way.

Speaker 1 (02:31:08):
Yeah, well Laramie Fishing Tackle baby there it is. Yeah. Yeah,
that's that's the place that convinced me that if you're
gonna hunt with anything that doesn't start with thirty or forty,
make sure you got out plenty of here on AMMA
about thirty years ago. But where can you find me
American Fighting Revolver dot com AFR Official or American Fighting

(02:31:30):
Removal on all the socials. We do some YouTube activity.
I'm probably gonna drop a YouTube video around September fourth
on an upcoming tourist and there's some upcoming There's a
lot of good stuff coming out that will be on
Lipsy's YouTube channel coming up real quick. We also have

(02:31:53):
Revolverfest dot Com. That's the hub for find out what
we're doing at revolver Fest. So yeah, that's about the
extent of it.

Speaker 3 (02:32:03):
Cool Caleb.

Speaker 1 (02:32:05):
All right, dudes, y'all have a good one.

Speaker 2 (02:32:10):
So, Caleb, big Boar caliber, What the what gun do
you shoot it through?

Speaker 6 (02:32:14):
Preferred favorite big Boar caliber is unquestionably forty four magnum.
If I could only have one, like I actually thought
about this, if I could only have one caliber of
gun for the rest of my life, it would in
fact be forty four magnum because I can basically do

(02:32:34):
everything with it from shoot very light forty four specials
all the way up to you know, Okay, sure I
probably can't hunt elephants with a forty four mag but
pretty much damn near anything else that walks on four
legs on Earth has been illed with forty four mag
at some point. My preferred platform is the Tourist Raging Hunter,

(02:32:57):
which I've shot a lot of stuff out of with
that forty four mag. My second favorite choice would be
the Super black Hawk, because God, I love a single action.
So like, if you're if you're doing forty four MAGG
and you and the Dow double action, I would say
get the Tourist Raging Hunter because the gun's built to
handle you know, your craziest high pressure buffalo boor you

(02:33:21):
know three hundred and twenty five grain hardcasts at mock Jesus.
If you like a single action, get the Super black Hawk.
And I say that with a lot of love in
my heart for rugerup Where to find me? I am
the marketing manager for Tourus USA, So a lot of
our content you're going to see me in and then
on and I and then on my personal stuff. I'm

(02:33:44):
on Instagram at Rada Caleb, on YouTube as mister Revolver,
and Facebook as Caleb Gettings. Just search for me, don't
try to friend me, go follow the other page because
there's two of me on there. Yeah, and again it's
the best. Now is the best time to get into
big Bore revolvers. Guys, there's so many great ones out there.

(02:34:04):
Go go get a tour like do I want you
to in chorus? Yes, because that pays my mortgage. Are
there a lot of really other good guns out there? Yeah?
There are, And I'm not one of those brand guys,
just like you should only buy our shit. No, just
buy a good Go buy a Ruger. I'm not gonna
be mad if you buy a Ruger. It's certainly a
fucking good gun, but by a tourist, because they're better

(02:34:28):
and it pays my mortgage.

Speaker 3 (02:34:30):
Good night everyone, cool?

Speaker 5 (02:34:31):
Thanks?

Speaker 4 (02:34:33):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (02:34:34):
There was a question that.

Speaker 2 (02:34:37):
Oh, there was a question that came up specifically for Lipsy's. Yeah,
did you cover forty five seventy their injuries yet?

Speaker 3 (02:34:48):
So I got a funny story about that, and Jason
was there, a good good friend of our you know
what's coming the bf rs, You know they do in
forty five seventy and I think they're a three shot right,
trying to.

Speaker 4 (02:35:00):
It's a weird cut on that cylinder, but it's a
five shot gun, okay.

Speaker 3 (02:35:06):
So Brett at Madenam Research, wonderful guy, brought a ton
of them out and our friend who I won't name,
first name, Nick was shooting it and he was just
shooting whatever loads somebody put in it, and it was
like cowboy load, cowboy loads, somebody's bare defense four h

(02:35:26):
five hard cast a mock three and that thing came
back and split his head open, and I was certain
he died. It cut the bill of his hat in half.
So at that point I was like, maybe I don't
want to shoot a little forty five seventy. I have
shot one of the Derringers with Winchester cowboy loads in

(02:35:46):
it and it wasn't as terrible as I thought it would.

Speaker 1 (02:35:49):
Be, but.

Speaker 3 (02:35:52):
Not something that not something I own or will own.
Most likely those.

Speaker 4 (02:35:57):
Get into the stunt, you know, guns from me and
like a no risk screwing up your shooting hand on
something like that.

Speaker 2 (02:36:07):
So one of the cool things that we have is
we have, well all of us, we have this progression
with our knowledge, our skills, and our understanding of firearms.
Everyone's on different areas on this. Most listeners most likely
or somee my auto people getting into revolvers if they
haven't gone on both feet yet. We have some really
cool people around us. Chuck Haggard, Darryl Bulky, Brian with

(02:36:31):
awy all the Caleb For me personally, they've provided some
excellent insights and it's interesting to see the things that
they've told me about revolvers. Okay, I want to go
in this direction, this is what I'm thinking, and they
give this this kind of guidance, and some of there's
like specific things Okay, bob hammer and three inch barrel

(02:36:52):
and all this kind of stuff. And then you see
Lipsies is listening and Lipsis is providing these things that
this is what the pros are saying that you want.
And sure I can. I can go to gun broker
and buy a stock ruger with this stock configuration, or
I can go and look at Lipsy's and see this
is way closer to what the guys that I really

(02:37:15):
trust say, this is what I want to get. So
as opposed to buying some stock you name it and
then get custom work.

Speaker 3 (02:37:22):
Done to it, you can get it done ready to
go out of it.

Speaker 2 (02:37:25):
From Lipsis. We've already seen the UCS, we've seen other
things from that. American revolvers been able to American fighting revolvers,
been able to consult on what a cool thing and
we were talking about what were they what were what's
the brand that also did similar back in lou Horton.

(02:37:48):
So when I got when I was starting to heavily
get into Revolvers, seeing the Horton models and won't go on,
holy crap, and I think I own one. It's a
twenty nine beautiful gun. Don't want to shoot it that much,
but yeah, nice, Yeah, And it's because of Darryl's in
specifically Darryl's input. And now we have and they've been

(02:38:13):
out of business or they've stopped for how long ago.

Speaker 5 (02:38:16):
They've been out of business.

Speaker 2 (02:38:17):
I think it's around twenty nineteen, Okay, And yeah, there's
a there's a decent price attached to their stuff, and
now we have yeah, and we have Lipsies, who's doing
the same thing. And these are functional and I'm a
big fan of functional. Yeah, and so it is just
it's so cool, especially Jason, have you on these on

(02:38:38):
these discussions, so people can hear what you have to
say and go, this guy knows what the hell's going on.
And I'm hoping that that gives people also an idea
maybe they need to look at Lipsies because it just
makes sense.

Speaker 3 (02:38:53):
Yeah, I think that you see in the mountain guns
proved a Smith and Lesson that there's more to life
than X frames, Yes, and shield and the autos. Yeah,
and like I think it proved a Smith and Lesson
that actually paying attention to this against viable, that people
do care about them, and and that's a good thing
for all of us because they're they're back to making

(02:39:14):
a really nice gun. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:39:17):
I can't tell you how many people told me I
haven't bought a Nie Smith and Wesson in twenty five years,
and I've bought three this year. You know, It's like, Okay,
that's that's that's that's impactful. So and if we can
bring back Look, it's always how do we You know
that Marc.

Speaker 5 (02:39:32):
Is always like, how do we get that new new buyer,
new buyer, new buyer?

Speaker 4 (02:39:34):
And I said, how about we get the old guys
who haven't bought and give them something excited to get
excited about.

Speaker 5 (02:39:40):
Because those guys are they're already in.

Speaker 4 (02:39:41):
We don't have to convince them. We just gotta give
them a good product. And at that forum list seems
to be working.

Speaker 3 (02:39:46):
So Smith and Wesson never thought they'd sell three thousand
mountain guns in a year ever again, and and for me, eases, yeah,
for me.

Speaker 2 (02:39:55):
The punch line of this also is several years ago
I was talking to Daryl about, you know what, I
want to get a forty four get.

Speaker 3 (02:40:02):
A mountain gun.

Speaker 2 (02:40:03):
Go get a mountain gun, Okay, And I wound up
getting an older mountain gun, a cool gun. And then
you guys have you guys released them and yeah, it's
it's amazing how good advice just it just works.

Speaker 4 (02:40:18):
Some some uh, some concepts are pretty timeless and uh
and just need to be brought back.

Speaker 5 (02:40:23):
That's all.

Speaker 4 (02:40:24):
You know, these guys, we're not doing anything that these
guys didn't figure out on a hundred years ago.

Speaker 3 (02:40:28):
We're joking a bottle never goes out of style, you know.

Speaker 5 (02:40:31):
We're just putting it back out there.

Speaker 4 (02:40:33):
Maybe a little modern touches, but it's it's just the
same concepts.

Speaker 3 (02:40:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and a lot of cosation. Oh yeah,
so favorite big boar, are you shooting it through?

Speaker 4 (02:40:45):
I'm not going to take the cop out and go
forty four magnum like the other two guys, because yeah,
forty four magnum is the easy. But when I'm when
we're talking about roast breaking big bores, I'm going for
Rady Ruber four Aidy Ruger to me is the best
of the bigger and then six shot forty five Colt
you know, big boar or forty four magnets.

Speaker 5 (02:41:07):
It gives you a true increase.

Speaker 4 (02:41:09):
In power without a huge increase in recoil. They're easy
to carry. I mean, this gun in this holster I
can carry on my belt, doesn't take up a lot
of space. It's really no heavier than carrying a model
twenty nine Smith and Wesson four inch gun. But this
gun is capable of doing anything I want to do.
I shoot a four hundred grain bullet, but every day

(02:41:29):
loads about a thousand feet per second. But I can
shoot up to twelve hundred per per second out of
this gun and it's extremely accurate. It's handsome, it shoots well,
and I love it so for any rugor would be
my choice.

Speaker 5 (02:41:44):
Because I can. You know, you can.

Speaker 4 (02:41:49):
Find us Matt at lipses dot com or at Lipsey's
Guns on the social media's Lipsey's Guns on Facebook. Check
out our YouTube channel if you subscribe to that. That's
where we put out anytime we have any new really
cool projects, special revolvers or number ones, We're gonna we're
gonna do videos on them. It's it's the easiest way

(02:42:11):
to get the word out. So that's a great way
for people to know what's coming up and what's what's
out there. You know, we've got our dealer finder on
our website, So if you find a dealer on that
website in your area, that means that guy's set up
with us and he already has an account. You know,
some people get frustrated, Hey, my brother in law's got
an FFL. They tried to order a gun from you,
and I'll pull it up and look, and they don't

(02:42:32):
even have an account with us. I'm like, man, you're
gonna be it's gonna be a while. You know, he's
got to send us FFL in and fill out the
paperwork and stuff. But if you go on that dealer Finder,
that guy's set up, he's ready to go, and so
that's probably the best time, the best way to do it.
So those are the places to find us where we
uh where we do our stuff, and at lipsies dot
com we have everything there.

Speaker 5 (02:42:52):
Our exclusives are all in one section.

Speaker 4 (02:42:54):
Another little tidbit, you know, doing these projects, you know,
like these Busy for eight and four fifty fours. It's
been a few years since we've had them, and it's
a tough gun for Riuger to build, and they're getting
some production back to be able to do those again,
and so people ask me all the time, are these
still in production or they discontinued. The best way you
can look at it if it's on If it's listed

(02:43:15):
on our website, it means that it's still a current project.

Speaker 5 (02:43:19):
We might not have it.

Speaker 4 (02:43:20):
In stock and they might not be making them in
the next six months, but it's not a discontinued item.
So if it's still listed on the website, that means
that we have orders in and that's another thing people,
Oh you need you know, I'm really upset y'all haven't
ordered any more of those four fifty fours, buddy. I
can promise you they've been on order ever since the
last patch we've got. It's just they haven't built them
yet and so there's only you know, there's just only

(02:43:41):
so much production time and so we kind of have
to get in the in the queue there. So I
can promise you if it's on our website, it's still
active and it's on order, so you can kind of
that's a way to kind of gauge it and go
from there. But I appreciate the time. It's always great
talking with these guys. It's always great talking about eight platform.
You know, all you guys out there that are they're

(02:44:03):
looking for this in depth kind of information.

Speaker 5 (02:44:05):
There's not that many places there to get this anymore.

Speaker 3 (02:44:09):
Everybody.

Speaker 5 (02:44:09):
I get it all the time. You know, I like
those two minute videos.

Speaker 4 (02:44:12):
I'm like, Okay, I give you features and benefits in
two minutes, but you're not going to learn about throat
choke and how to laugh.

Speaker 5 (02:44:18):
A barrel in two minutes. Just not gonna happen. But
there these are things.

Speaker 4 (02:44:22):
If you're really interested in this stuff, this is a
great resource. You know, guys in American Fighting Revolve are
doing a great job. But you know, go go check
out the old books, any of John Taffan's books, Hamilton
Bowen's books, those kind of things.

Speaker 5 (02:44:37):
Get those books and read them. Man, that's some good stuff.
Look at those old pictures. You'll give you great ideas.
And let me tell you, when you look at those guns,
you'll see a pattern. You'll see five.

Speaker 4 (02:44:46):
And a half inch barrel guns with busily grip frames
and and this kind of stuff. And there's a reason why.
It's not because that's what the glock of the day was.
It's because that's the feature set that those guys who
actually went out and tested all this stuff have come
to consensus this is this is what you want, and
so they did all the testing. So you can kind
of go back and look at those old resources and

(02:45:06):
get a good hit start.

Speaker 3 (02:45:09):
Nice appach it.

Speaker 2 (02:45:10):
And you guys just had a video also with Darryl.

Speaker 5 (02:45:13):
Yeah, so those guys are just down there.

Speaker 4 (02:45:15):
They say they spent a couple of days with us, uh,
and we did some video and we shot some windshields
with thirty two H and R Magnum loads had some
very interesting revolts.

Speaker 5 (02:45:23):
So we'll see some new videos on that.

Speaker 1 (02:45:25):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (02:45:26):
We've got some new products about the launch.

Speaker 4 (02:45:28):
We've got some new some new revolvers that will be
launching here in the next uh probably by the next
two weeks. And we just launched the stainless three inch
SP one O ones and three twenty seven Federal and
three Magnum there again as of today and available. Those
guns came out really nice. We've got we'll have probably

(02:45:49):
two more launches with Smith and Wesson. This year, we'll
probably see some more mountain guns and we will probably
see some more carry uh variations coming out. So I
think some stuff people are going to really like. Course
shot show, we'll always we'll have a big launch there too.
So it's it's it's a process. It takes a little
time to get these things done, but hopefully they're worth

(02:46:09):
it for everybody.

Speaker 5 (02:46:10):
Awesome, so I appreciate it. Matt John. Always good seeing you.

Speaker 3 (02:46:14):
Man, Yeah, Man, talk to you soon.

Speaker 5 (02:46:16):
You'll have a good night, good tube, good night, Okay.

Speaker 3 (02:46:19):
John, take it away. You know, we covered the forty
five Colt pretty hard the last and if we're calling
that a big boar, that's probably If I had to
pick one gun, it's going to be a forty five Colt,
probably a six shot, maybe with an oversized cylinder if
I want to get stupid with it. But you know,
a Blackhawk and forty five cult with the features I

(02:46:41):
like on it would be would be fine. If we're
talking big bore, what I consider big boar four and
three quarter of Vico converted five hundred line ball, it
would be my walking around gun with a four hundred
and thirty grand bullet going nine one hundred and fifty
feet per second. If I not what cutters what and

(02:47:07):
I were A well, I mean they're they're practically wadecutters.
They're they're wide and flat enough. They're just not down
in the case. If I were one of you guys
watching and you're starting new, I would suggest look at
a Magnum Research BFR. They're mechanically perfect. They might not
be as pretty as want to handle to Bowen's guns,

(02:47:27):
but they're mechanically perfect. I can't believe they can afford
to sell those guns for what they do. You can
get them for twelve to fourteen hundred bucks on gun
broker right now. And if I were a reloader wanting
to get into big bores, I would do a five
hundred JRH. It's a it's a true five hundred, not
a five to ten like the lineball and what you get.

(02:47:49):
It's essentially five hundred Smith and Wesson Magnum special Jack
Huntington made it fit in a smaller frame gun than
an next frame and it will do anything a five
hundred lineball well a little bit higher pressure, but I
mean it doesn't matter. The guns are made for it,
and the bullet selection of those five hundred caliber projectiles

(02:48:10):
is much wider. You can get solids from cutting edge,
you can get all kinds of stuff. So if you're
new to it and you want to get into it
and you're a reloader, five hundred JRH BFR I think
is like the sweet spot to enter where you're not
going to have any problems as long as your reloading
process is good. And if you're not a reloader, get
a four ady ruger cool a bunch of single action.

(02:48:36):
You can get it in the BFR two. Right now,
I'd probably trust that gun more just mechanically they're so
good you're not giving up anything. And yeah, get a
four eighty BFR and go buy factory ammo and have
at it.

Speaker 2 (02:48:54):
It was funny you guys were talking about reloading and
stuff and getting into the big bore reloading. Yeah, and
I was just thinking, Yeah, if you want to be
a Elmer Keith an actor.

Speaker 3 (02:49:04):
Can Yeah, you can do some really interesting stuff. You're
not practically gonna shoot even the four eighty. You can
get the factory load for it, but you're not going
to get into anything above a forty five COLT. Outside
of the X frames, there's plenty of AMMO for that
smith and lesson subsidized partnerships the Federal. I think the

(02:49:25):
X frames are neat. I don't think they are a
good big bore gun because I don't think it's it's
it's not portable. It's a rifle without a stock, even
the short barrel once they're just they're they're big cluegy guns.
They made a lot of compromises to fit a cartridge
that big. I want basically the same frame I would
have in a forty four or forty five. I just

(02:49:46):
want to launch in that big bullet, but you you
can't practically do it without being a reloader. Grizzly loads
AMMO and it's okay. They use really goodullets. They bought
cast performance bullets and they're they're nice bullets to me,
Like Buffalo Boar. You you get what you pay for.

(02:50:10):
And Steve doesn't load the big boomers or that's who
I'd buy my stuff from. And then Area of Ballistics Aria,
they they load phenomenal AMMO and they do load development
for you. But again you're paying for those services. But
you know, when you get into the three to four
dollars around, I don't think it's as as practical, especially
if you want to get into it and learn, so

(02:50:33):
I would I would steer everybody that wants to get
into real big bores, which I consider five shot forty
five colt and above minus the X frames. Those are
those are stronger factory rounds. Then than not, you learn
to reload. Go take an NRA Metallic case cartridge reloading class.

(02:50:56):
It'll be one Saturday.

Speaker 2 (02:50:58):
And even if you don't even that existed.

Speaker 3 (02:51:01):
A really good one.

Speaker 1 (02:51:02):
I know.

Speaker 3 (02:51:02):
If you're in northern Colorado, there's a guy that teaches him.
He owns Colorado Custom Cartridge and he does load development
for the D O D and and stuff like that.
I've been to his shop and that was the most
phenomenal class I've ever taken of any sort. But even
if you don't want to reload, you learn so much

(02:51:23):
about the why why Amos made the way it is.
And if everybody you know, there's your Your maledge may
vary on the instructor, but I thought the curriculum for
the n RA A basic Metallic case cartridge Reloading was fantastic.
So go take a Saturday. You get to you get
to load around and take it with you. But you

(02:51:43):
get to learn so much about reloading and what makes
a cartridge. I different primers, I different primers small and large.

(02:52:08):
I don't have to go really, I don't have to
go really. Yeah, I'm go get an r CBS. I'm
go get an r CBS collar, lead, eyes, and in

(02:52:29):
the equipment. And I know you're in the equipment, and
I know you're does for a living. He's a wizard.
Does for a living. He's a wizard. There's more than
the equipment all There's more than the equipment.

Speaker 1 (02:52:45):
All one at a time.

Speaker 3 (02:52:48):
But posted about that, being very very meticulous about your
process and like hyper focused. Lock the door, don't let
your kids come in and ask questions, don't have a
TV playing in the background, do nothing but pay attention
to the AMMO. And I mean it's it's not terribly

(02:53:08):
hard to learn. If you screw it up, there can
be consequences, you know, and that's what you're trying to avoid.
But man, learn to reload. Take that NRA class, even
if you're never going to reload a round past that one,
you do and you'll learn a ton about AMMO. So
I'd highly recommend that to everybody, and then get a
twenty two and set it up the exact same as
the gun that's going to give you purple tunnel and

(02:53:30):
wind up with an elbow replacement in your late thirties
like I got. So yeah, get a twenty two man.
Don't develop bad habits in a flinch. You know, shoot
that thing ten to one for your big bore and
the grip, the side alignment, the trigger squeeze, everything, All
the fundamentals are exactly the same. You're just not paying
the cost and recoil penalty. And you know, the best

(02:53:55):
tool to learn to shoot a big boar revolver is
a small boar revolver. Good stuff.

Speaker 2 (02:54:01):
Now what about where people can find you?

Speaker 3 (02:54:04):
You can't. If I don't know you don't friend me
on Facebook or anything, I just won't respond, no offense,
I just you know, Yeah, it's friendless. We're not friends.
I work at ACE, virtual shooting, so vastly different from
fifty caliber handbuilt revolvers. Is my day job in tech.

(02:54:26):
We do Matt's familiar with I think we're going to
do an episode on that here when we get a
little breathing room. But we do virtual reality shooting and
it's hyper realistic. You don't get recoil, you still have
to shoot your gun. You do give up a couple
of things when you compare it to dry fire, especially
when we're talking shop process across multiple targets, stage planning fundamentals.

(02:54:52):
They all apply in ACE, and you can put it
near a backpack, can take it with you anywhere you
go where it's hard to get to a range now,
so ACE virtual shooting, and not only that, there's a
commercial side.

Speaker 2 (02:55:04):
You have a commercial side and a government side where
there are additional features.

Speaker 1 (02:55:09):
Were a startup.

Speaker 3 (02:55:10):
I think we're twelve people right now, think we're about
to hire thirteenth. But it is a startup. The company
has been around two years, very very scrappy. We're kind
of in a weird spot where we're tiny startup company.
We're also the biggest in the world, so depending on
how you look at it. But it's growing super fast.

(02:55:34):
You're going to see a lot out of ACE, a
lot of diversification and growth and reinvestment in the next year.
And you know, we're super excited about it. But yeah,
definitely check it out. It's it's not a game, it's
not a gimmick. It really works. I got options if
it was I'd work somewhere else, but it is. It

(02:55:56):
is tremendously fun. It is fun. It's not a game,
but it's an absolute blast. And you know, I think
dry Fire still has tremendous value, but I think if
you had to pick one or the other, you know,
the upfront investment, you're five hundred bucks into a headset.
But it's it's also something your kids can use, as

(02:56:16):
Matt will tell you, And it's got a lot of
other applications other than a it's just one app that
runs on it.

Speaker 1 (02:56:22):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (02:56:22):
Then you've got a got a handset that uses the
Meta controller and when you put the thing on, man,
you think you're on the range. You'll know the first
time you run into one of your walls because you
forget where you're at. There's safety settings for that, by
the way, if you don't set them up, it's on you.
But yeah, virtual shooting, it's it's a real thing. It's

(02:56:42):
coming and it's going to get stronger. Yeah, and it
is a blast. It's a fun, fun industry to be in,
and it's a fun, fun time in the company to
be a part of it. Heck yeah, heck yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:56:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:56:55):
From personal experience, it's possible to sink in a lot
of time and at its beneficial time.

Speaker 3 (02:57:02):
But I will check the comments on this YouTube video
to see how stupid I sounded when people called me out.
So all occasionally respond to stuff in there if there's questions.
And then I don't know of a good way to
do it, but I put a link in the private
chat that's got my uh the line ball all the

(02:57:26):
John gun notes that were on his website before they
took it down, and he gave him away free to
the public, so I mean it's free to distribute. And
then all of John Taffan's Taffin test for every cartridge
he did. I don't know if there's a way for
P and S to share that somewhere. Yeah, oh yeah, somewhere.

(02:57:48):
So download it out of there, Matt and and tell
everybody where they can find it, because that stuff when
those guys passed away, the websites went away, and yeah
I can.

Speaker 2 (02:57:59):
I can like put it on a drop box and
have it public and then link that to the absolute video.

Speaker 3 (02:58:07):
So if you're new to this or you're interested in it,
all the actual load data that we kind of glossed
over because we talked about a lot of cartridges tonight.
All of that stuff is in there, and that's probably
the two best resources for it that I know, because
Hodgden's won't have most of this stuff because it's not
Sammy approved. So as far as load data goes, I

(02:58:30):
mean five shot forty five cults in there. The other
resource if you're getting into this stuff single actions, the
single actions forums, I think single actions dot Com. The
guy that owns it is a tremendous gunsmith and shooter
in his own right, Lee Martin, and he's got a
lot of really good articles where he cataloged, like he

(02:58:51):
goes through, Hey, I'm going to build my own five
shot forty five and soup to not shows you the
entire process because it's not a job for him, it's
something he does for himself for fun and his loan data.
And and then if you go in the forums, that's
probably like the one of the most well moderated repositories
of Revolver information on the planet. So give give a

(02:59:13):
poke in there and check it out. There's a lot
of good information, some bad, mostly good, pretty good, pretty
good ratio for a for internet for him, So check
those out if you're interested, and yeah, hopefully you can
get those documents posted up because that's the easy day.
The absolute, you know, grail of information for this stuff

(02:59:33):
is is those two guys who unfortunately passed away in
the last couple of years.

Speaker 2 (02:59:37):
Yeah, yeah, well, big thanks to the panel.

Speaker 3 (02:59:41):
Only John's left Banks, he's all the he's all the
all that's left.

Speaker 2 (02:59:48):
But yeah, also big thank you to the you, the
the you, the viewer or the listener. Also big thanks
you to our sponsors Lucky Gunner, Filster Walter, also our
Patreon support supporters, the networks porters, all those people. If
you like what we do, hit Patreon, dot com, slash
primary and secondary. From there you can help support this
whole network. We got all these resources. Three hour discussion

(03:00:09):
tonight on Big Board Stop talked about all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 3 (03:00:13):
Fantastic discussion.

Speaker 2 (03:00:14):
As for the norm and yes, we do have an
ACE episode on the on the way. We actually even
have a reloading episode. We have one discussing what was
it We've mentioned it, I can't even remember. It's been
a long day, but yeah, still have a bunch of
episodes on the horizon. This one actually made it YouTube,

(03:00:36):
didn't kill it right off the bat. It's still might
get killed if you. If it does disappear, I'll be
throwing it back. I'll edit and put it back up.
So that is pretty much everything. I am now going
to go upstairs and make sure a four year old
is in bed because it's past this bedtime.

Speaker 3 (03:00:53):
Could go either way.

Speaker 2 (03:00:55):
Yeah, I'll see you guys later, yeah,

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P&S ModCast 439 - Wristbreaker Handcannons

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