P&S ModCast 442 - The Allure of Single Action Revolvers - Primary & Secondary Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And there it is. We are live.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Everyone, Mott Lanfer here with primary and secondary Welcome to podcast.
The episode number is four to forty two, not to
be confused with a SMI Smith and West and four
forty two different gun.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
But we're still talking about revolvers.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
We're gonna be talking about single action revolvers. Today's date
is October twenty seventh, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
Now.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
One of the cool things about this this episode to
me is to look at where we started with these episodes.
We had people like John who would be on and
this is we're talking about the night vision, We're talking
about the twenty elevens, the glocks and ars, and to
see the progression, I went shooting with a buddy with

(00:41):
John the Fishcop a few weeks ago and shot his
three seven black Hawk single action obviously black Hawk awesome
shooting gun, and it just got me thinking, why have
I not been pursuing this more and just based on
some of the chats that we have in the background.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
It's the same reason.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Why we had a forty five cold episode is because
some of these discussions among some of these guys that
have been there, done that, that are pretty knowledgeable clearly,
they're just fascinating and it's an opportunity to grow. And
you know what, I'm still working at. As a matter
of fact, right now, I'm carrying a sig fuse as
we speak. I carry a block forty seven every day

(01:19):
at work, I'm running an AR fifteen. I have night
vision available, all this good stuff, but it is so
rewarding to take a step away from all that and
go back to foundational tools.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
I let Gary.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Hughes know about this. I don't think he'll be able
to make it. I haven't received a reply from him.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
There right now. I think, yes, I've seen one of
the videos.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
He's trying to get food for the winner.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah. Yeah, someone will.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
Feed him and he won't have to feed it.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah. But yeah, I don't know exactly who's going to
be joining us. All I know is it's going to
be a fun discussion and something that I say on
a regular basis, that's not my favorite phrase.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
I'll say that in a minute.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
But this is one of those episodes where I get
to sit back and I get to learn, and I
get to listen, and you guys have been so instrumental
in spending unimaginable amounts of money, but more importantly instrumental
in helping people myself included finding what works. You know,

(02:28):
what work, revolvers work, and there are specific things that
fit my needs that I follow. dB I followed Brian,
I followed John, follow a lot of people, and I
listen to what they have to say, Jason at Lipsey's,
and I follow what's told and I go, where has
this been on my life? Like forty five cult? Forty

(02:48):
five cult was one of those it's just like.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
What the heck? Yeah, so now on my list.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
As a matter of fact, I was talking to one
of our supporters last night talking about one of the
which one was it. It's a Lipsey's exclusive four inch
barrel black Hawk blued in forty five with a conversion cylinder.
It is a it's one of the specials. It's the

(03:18):
taffin ye yep, yeah, yeah, that comes in perfect packing pistol.
And not only that, but if I remember, is it
that only available in is it Busily or.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Bisley Busy Busily? Yeah, things like you were. I think
all the versions they've done so far, I think they
did a stainless, now they're doing a.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Blue yeah, and a stainless. Holy crap, I saw three
and something inch.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
One of those.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
It's an awesome looking gun. I might have to get
that too. But does this work for defense?

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (03:51):
It does.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Does it work for other things? Yes, especially based on
the information that we discussed from that forty five episode,
this is something with the right load. I would have
no issue caring if I'm out in the woods and
I live in the rocky mountains, So it just makes sense.
So I'm gonna quit talking. Actually no, I'm going to
say my favorite thing. Favorite thing is listen to what

(04:13):
these guys have to say. Listen to who they represent,
where they're found, all that good stuff. If you appreciate
what they have to say, make sure you're finding them
on social media. Make sure you're giving them like subscription
shares when they share content that you appreciate, that you
learn from, make sure that you are sharing that. Because
algorithms don't work in our favor. Just the fact that

(04:34):
I have firearms behind me means yeah, YouTube's already giving
us some scrutiny. There's a good possibility this specific video
will be pulled very quickly off off of YouTube. I've
been getting strikes quite frequently for things that don't even
come close to any violations, talking about converting fol autos
and stuff, and we have Darryl Bulke no better yet,

(04:56):
we have Chuck Haggard talking about de escalation. How's that
If I I don't know, here's.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
How to not have gun violence? Yeah, yeah, shut it out.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, let's just kill it. So those algorithms don't work
in our favorite So make sure you're supporting those sources
that you have found to be beneficial. That goes with
primary and secondary, That goes with whoever your favorite gun
person is. Make sure you're giving them likes. And it
doesn't matter if it's educational entertainment, if it's kind of,
if it's cheesy, if it's kind of, if it's if

(05:28):
you're embarrassed to like them, it's okay. I'm even wearing
not that you can see, but a needs gaming T
shirt right now, video game YouTube channel. I see their
stuff and I like it, I like I share. Yeah,
that's why it works. So my backgrounds and law enforcement,
my background has nothing to do with single action revolvers
by any means, but I sure do enjoy firearms and

(05:51):
I love deep diving into some of these topics where
I get to walk away having so much of a
better understanding of how everything and how do we understand
the future without studying the past. So John, your background and.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Stuff, yep, So I joined the Army pre nine to eleven,
did that for sixteen years, worked at Magpole for a
long time in product development. Now I work at ACE
who thank you for wearing that? Oh yeah, I wear
it all the time. A tremendous departure from my pastime

(06:28):
of revolvers, especially single action ones. We do virtual reality
firearms training and yeah. And then when I'm not doing that,
which is most days, evenings, nights, and weekends at this point,
small company, it's a startup, I do wheel guns. So
this is a this is a nice break for me

(06:50):
from programming. Back end integration, is meta, going to deep
platform us you know, fun stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, it's interesting to see how the
platform has taken off and how many people appreciate it.
And I know, I love I love loaning up the
whole system to buddies or even agencies are bringing into
work on a slow day and you know what, we're
gonna do a little bit of We're gonna we're gonna

(07:20):
do some transition drills.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
We're gonna do whatever. Yeah, we're taking off almost uncomfortably fast,
uncomfortably for us because we have to keep up with it.
But on by all means there's worse problems to have,
so the higher stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Then we have someone who I wasn't familiar with prior,
and we were talking about forty five or now. We
were talking about single action revolvers and we were talking
about reloading, and this random guy named Steve Shields posts
a couple of videos that I watch. This guy we're
in a hat and I after in those videos. Yes,

(08:01):
this guy needs to be on the podcast, Johnsy, what's
your background.

Speaker 5 (08:07):
I'm a fourth generation rancher and cowboy. I forgot a
high school. I went to Againstmithing School in eastern Oklahoma
and went through that and came back to work on
the ranch. And I've been shooting revolver since I was
a kid. Got my first single action revolver when I

(08:28):
was twelve and been getting ever since. I just I
love the single actions. I carry them every day. I
shoot pretty well every day. I'm a obsessive handloader and
I just enjoy shooting.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
So when you were twelve and you got that first
single action, what was the what was the Brandon caliber?

Speaker 5 (08:50):
That was a Ruger Bearcat. It was an old, old,
used Ruger Bearcat. And then what caliber was that?

Speaker 3 (08:58):
Too? Long ruffle?

Speaker 5 (08:58):
Okay, okay, yeah, it's a it's a small singles revolver, gotcha.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
Yeah, but grab one.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Of course, John, Here are three of them.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
And then this was the second thing went all from there.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
The little guy, Yeah, so good, it's so fun.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
So one of the things that Steve said specifically, so
Steve runs high desert cartridge and I buy his ammunition regularly, regularly,
specifically for all it's a revolver, it's going to be
fed that that ammo, whether it's practice or it's defensive carry.
And one of the things he said that I that

(09:47):
I thought was interesting, was he in one of your videos.
You I think it was just long you were just
doing long distance, just a single shot. But what he
said is, for you, it takes about a cylinder to
fine tune a load. For him, it's it's considerably more.
Now we do have an episode on the Horizon where
we will be talking about reloading specifically, but I just

(10:09):
thought I thought that was interesting. How did you get
into reloading. Was it just student necessity?

Speaker 3 (10:15):
No, not really.

Speaker 5 (10:17):
My dad is a big reloader. He's a rifle guy,
and I'm starting out kind of as a rifle guy
as well, and I'm still very.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Much I'm not so much into riffles.

Speaker 5 (10:29):
But I used rifles a lot. Yeah, But he's always handloaded.
So I started handloading when I was thirteen under his supervision.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
And after that that was.

Speaker 5 (10:39):
A big mistake because once he realized that I knew
well enough when I was doing that, I wasn't gonna,
you know, blow myself up, he quit loading shells for me.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
So that's that's all that.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
Do you did he have you start then just reloading
for him?

Speaker 5 (10:55):
Then occasionally yes, yeah, yeah, not when I was thirteen,
but whenever I got yeah, yeah, and I'll still load
for him occasionally.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Okay, So I have some notes here if I can
find them. It's so basically for you guys, specifically for
your whether it's an everyday carrier outdoors or anything like that,
what is your go to caliber or single action revolver.

Speaker 4 (11:25):
Mine's forty four Special or forty five COLT. Just depends
on the gun.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
And why is that. I got a bunch of them.
I've got the variety of loads for them, and I
have a ton of components, a number of factors for
forty five Colt. It's just because in the same gun,
I can go shoot, you know, one hundred and eighty
or two hundred grain powder puff cowboy loads and not
not tear myself up. And then in the same gun,

(11:53):
you know, I have something that's very, very capable, you know,
like we went through on the forty five Colts episode,
So the forty five Cold you know, versatility, because I
like the cartridge so much that I have guns built
around it, and those are the ones I go to.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, with the forty four Specials, are they forty four
special guns or are they forty four mags?

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Usually, I let's see, I've got a couple forty four
mag single actions, but I've got like a weird OCD
where forty four mag I like it in a double action.
I don't really want it in a single action. I
can't tell you why, there's no logic there. I think
I got like a couple of the Caros and forty

(12:32):
four mag that I picked up cheap, and I know
I've got an old super black Hawk from nineteen seventy six.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
That again, I think I found it for four hundred bucks.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
But other than that, everything I've got is either a
dedicated Special or a forty five Colt.

Speaker 4 (12:46):
Those are my go to guns.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah, yeah, Chauncey.

Speaker 5 (12:53):
Kind of in the same boat. Really in my double
action guns, I shoot them ADEL twenty nine a lot. Yeah,
but my singing the license, I prefer forty fives, and
I've got a handful of them, and that's just what
I like. And for the same reasons, it's such a
versatile cartridge's there's nothing that it can't do in the

(13:14):
right gun. You know, in a cold you're not going
to run a three hundred grain bullet at fourteen hundred
feet a second, which you can do that in Ruger
in a large frame Ruber.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
But it's just such a versatile carbriage. There's nothing not
to like about the forty five code. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
If anything, this is just reinforcement that I am making
the right decision that I need.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
That at forty five cold black Hawks.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
So what about the differences between the Vocaro's and the
black Hawks. My understanding is the Vacaro where the black
Hawk is a little bit more sturdy, a little bit
heavier duty larger, while the Vocaro is a little bit
more slight, a little bit more slim sleek.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Depends on the generation. The old model Vocaro was built
on a on a large and may slightly have my
order off. Yeah, the old model of the Carrow. And
then they have a new Vicaro and forty four Magnum
and those are built on a large frame with the
same you know, effectively the same cylinder as a black Hawk.

(14:18):
And then so they have different frame sizes. Then we've
got like the midframe guns, like I think there's forty
four special flattops and mid frame. The Tyler Featherweights were midframes,
I think the convertible you're looking at. So the black
Hawk and of the Carrow there's a medium frame and
a large frame, and those kind of dictate the cylinder size,

(14:39):
which dictates what pressure you can shoot. Somebody can can
fact check me on that, but I'm pretty sure. I'm
pretty sure I'm in the ballpark there. Yeah, So so
really you can get I mean, guys build five hundred
lineballs and four seventy five's on on large for carro frames,
so there's there's enough meat on that frame to put
a cylinder in there that you can do in thing

(15:00):
you want to do with a single action handgun. In
either one, you've just got to know which one you're
getting because there's definitely a difference in the strength like
forty five colt from the medium frame to the large
frame in terms of what loads they can handle. Other
than that, you're looking at some contouring and the adjustable

(15:21):
sites are the big deal on the black Hawk, so
that I would say, functionally for most people, that's the
main difference. Do you want a gutter side on the
rear and a fixed front soldered on or do you
want adjustable sites?

Speaker 4 (15:38):
That's kind of I like.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
The Vocaro, and then now that there's options for sites,
you can regulate for them easily. I really like the
Vocaro because I like the single action army. It's really sleet,
there's not a lot of stuff to hang up on it,
and some of the custom options for sites on you
can get a really decent set of sites onto a
carrow now with a.

Speaker 4 (16:00):
Little bit of work and expense.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
So yeah, I'd say for most people when they look
at it, do you want fixed sights or not?

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Gotcha?

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Gotcha?

Speaker 2 (16:10):
So it sounds like if if only we had connections
to Ellipsies to talk to him about you know what,
you know, it would be really nice.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, and you know, I don't know Ruger's appetite to
do the adjustable sites, but if anybody could get it done,
it would be Ellipsies. Once I've got Bobby Tyler and
Ronnie Wells did where they cut essentially a serrated site
in and Bobby does sell the front sites. It's not
a huge ordeal to put one on a gun if
you have somebody that can cut the right dovetail. It's

(16:41):
about the sites on Tyler gunworks dot com, and then
you can regulate your vacaro, you know, relatively easy. It's
a good system. Yeah, cool, Chelsea anything, it's a good anything.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Further to add on that one, no.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
I mean that's probably everybody's you know, the average person's
walk into a Cabellas or a Shiels and walk out
with a single action gun that's going to last them,
you know, the rest of their life. The ruders are,
you know, the go to. There's a lot of other
options out there, but if you don't know what to get,
go get a Blackhawk, Curve, Acara, take your pick. Just

(17:21):
figure out what frame size, it is, and get the
one that'll do what you want it to. There's really
nothing that medium frame gun can't do. You know, a
thirty something that I think you can do thirty something
thousand PSI and the medium.

Speaker 4 (17:35):
Frame forty five Colt Blackhawk and you can.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
That's still a stout enough load for for what most
people are going to need. It's got to be real
specialized to get away from that.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
So and most likely plenty for anything in the in
the northern hemisphere of.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, I would anything in North America. It's probably gonna
be just fine for you. A little overkill for people,
but yeah, is there any such thing?

Speaker 2 (18:04):
So what about all the clones, because I've seen I
don't even remember all the brands. I think I picked
up a new Birdie years ago in three fifty seven.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
It's a cool gun. Yeah, Yeah, they're great guns. Fine, Yeah,
it's away.

Speaker 4 (18:18):
They go ahead.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
So you Bertie and Pieta are the big two that
you'll hear about. And then if you ever see like Cimarron,
Taylor's all those companies that import they do sort of
what Lipsies does, where they order an entire run of
what we call them the pizza guns and you know,

(18:40):
so they'll have a certain barrel length, a certain barrel wrapped,
and you know they'll do it with all the lever guns.

Speaker 4 (18:46):
But so those.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Italian guns, they're gonna do a little.

Speaker 4 (18:50):
Bit of sacrilegion.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Say they're they're kind of better than a modern cult
in a lot of ways. Mechanically they're probably much better
than an old one too, and they're they're cheap. You
can get parts for them, and they've they've got a
lot going for them. Also, without the pride of ownership
that you get by giving Colt three grand, you know,

(19:12):
you probably give yourself a little bit more liberty and
actually using them.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
I've got a gun here.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Well we'll talk.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
About it at some point in.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
This Colts, Colts, ebbs and flows of of quality and availability.
You know, generally speaking, the Italian guns are good guns,
and they work, and if something's slightly wrong with them,
they can be made to work. The importers have very
good service for him typically. I know Taylor's and Cimarron

(19:42):
have excellent customer service if you do have an issue.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
And.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah I don't, I don't have a ton bad to
say about them. People used to favor you Birdie over Pieta.
I think Pieta is probably making the best guns they
they ever have. So it's a really good way to
get to a traditional single action, you know, Colt size gun,
little bit smaller frame without breaking the bank or destroying

(20:10):
an airloom or you know. They're a really good option
if if that's what you need. Like Cowboy action guys
love them because you just wail on your guns and
when you break, you put a new part in it,
and like you don't want to do that with old Colts,
guys used to do it with US Firearms. That's another
one we're talking about. Beautiful guns man the US Firearms

(20:34):
Company that if you ever see a us F A gun,
they used to be really affordable for what they were. Colt,
in my opinion, didn't it probably made very few guns
that were as good as those peak us FA guns.
And they actually started out making them on with some

(20:55):
of the Italian parts, a mix of Italian and US
parts as I understand it. Then when they brought all
the guns and house those things are awesome. Since they
quit quit making them, if you're not familiar with us FA,
they moved on to little zip gun things, as Chohnston said, yeah,

(21:15):
so these little credit cards zip guns that look like
a pepper spray thing.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
But they were twenty two I think.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
I don't know. I couldn't have cared less about them,
and I mean, from what I understand, the guy just
walked in one day and lost interest and so like
I'm doing this now and quit making the single action guns,
which is a shame because they were they were probably
the best true single action army pattern guns ever built.
So heard rumors that may be resurrected by someone at

(21:45):
some point, but I don't I don't know. I hope
it is, and I hope they're as good as they were.
That's cool.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, I'd never heard of them, but that's for me.
That's I'm not surprised that I haven't heard of that.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
If I have hearned, though, go ahead your two in
the water.

Speaker 4 (21:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Four hundred dollars Italian guns not a bad way to do.
And they got options for them. Well.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
I looked up a couple of their websites just looking
at the list of the available firearms. Skew count Yeah. Yeah,
that's like a Magpole catalog.

Speaker 4 (22:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
Everything.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
The one thing that I found was interesting, Uh, I
was I don't remember who I was talking to, but
basically comparing them also then to the American variants, was
that their screws were metric versus.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, definitely, there's there's not as much parts interchangeability. Yeah,
so yeah, as I understand it, a lot of them
are metric, but I mean I think most of them
are pins and flads anyway. But yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Anything I think just the last couple of minutes alone,
I think would be good reinforcement. If if anyone's just
kind of on the fence.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Hey, do you want to try it out?

Speaker 3 (22:55):
Just just do it.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
You're not going to break the bank. It's going to
be it's functional. They look nice.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
They were good thing about the Italians too, man, they'll
make any any frontier firearm like they don't care. You
want to cult lightning, the pump action rifle, sure, MAML
do one, and like nobody over here even touch one
of those things. People won't work on them. They're notoriously

(23:22):
hard to get running, and they're they're cool guns.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
They're awesome.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
But yeah, hey, you want to make a you name
it like anything, they'll make it repro spencer, no problem,
we'll do that up for you.

Speaker 6 (23:37):
Cool.

Speaker 4 (23:37):
I mean, we're not going to get that here.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
So, yeah, the Italian companies, they've got a lot going
for them. I got a lot of respect for them.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
And you said Taylor's one of them as well.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
So Taylor's Cimarron, and there's a few others they import
oka like SMUs from those companies, kind of like Lipsi's, Yeah,
but it's it's the Italian companies that's kind of their
bread and utter, Uberti, Pieta, a couple of the others
that make the clon firearms there in Italy. They'll bring
them in and it'll be you know, this one will

(24:10):
be exclusive to Taylor's. This will be exclusive to Cimarron.
I think Cimarron's still in business. I don't I don't know.
I know Taylor's is well.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
And just to reinforce what you said of all people,
Garrett Hughes carries one practically dairy daily on his ranch
and he's using it regularly.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Dwayne Side's launch of him. He loves those things. That's
what he shoots his mounted shooting with. I mean he's
had him for years as long as I've known him,
so fourteen years. Yeah, and loves them. Most of the
Cowboy Action guys that are competitive seem to use them
because you just you can't get the sets of rugers anymore,

(24:49):
and they're more expensive and harder to get parts for
and you got to deal with the transfer bars. Cowboy
Action guys love the Italian guns. That'd say that's the
dominant force there for sure. So Space Taylors Dealers is
doing a nine by nineteen eighteen seventy three. Now that's
kind of it's super out of funny, but yeah, it's awesome. Okay,

(25:15):
whatever gets people buy them, buddy, it's true, it's true.
That's fu me.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of semi auto Brown's
going through revolvers, but yeah, oh no, they're doing.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
An eighteen seventy three lever action rifle. And that's the
whole thing about it. Oh yeah, I don't remember. It's
either an eighteen or a twenty two inch barrel.

Speaker 4 (25:34):
And that is a lot of nine.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
How many rounds is that? Yeah, it's all of them empty,
an entire box.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah, that is awesome. So they're doing cool stuff. I
like those companies.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
So, speaking of which, you brought up transfer bars. Yeah,
and so are the Italian companies. Then, not including them,
and they have the firing pin is on the hammer,
because I believe my.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
Do a number of variants and it seems to swap up,
and I don't want to give anybody bad info. I
think I think they still do a very fair amount
of traditional hammer mounted fire and pin guns that are
absolutely single action army configuration. You need to carry five
in them for the most part. And then I think

(26:20):
they have some that have some additional internal safeties. I
think they have some with some key locks, some slight
changes to the lockwork, so I think you can get both.
But I know they still do traditional single action army
pattern gots with a few little little modifications. Chauncey might
might know.

Speaker 5 (26:38):
For some of them have like the Lightning series is
a small frame single action and those have frame mounted
firing pins, but there's no transfer bar, no nothing, so it's.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
Still a five shot. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (26:53):
Then they have some which I don't have a birdie here,
but they have some this is a cult and they'll
have a little dingis down here below the h below
the firing pin, and what that allows that firing pin
to do is whenever that hammer goes down, that firing
pin will actually retract. I believe they call it a
floating firing pin. So that's supposed to be safe to

(27:14):
carry with six it's not you bardy, your ped I
can't remember which company does that even recommends that you
don't carry six and those guns what that is the
reason for that.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
In the same way with the base pins.

Speaker 5 (27:27):
They have a base pen that has an extra step
in it and that allows the basemend to be inserted
further and acts as a hammer block.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
And the reason they do is important.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
So those guns that have the dingis right here on
the on the hammer and it's like a triangle cut thing. Uh,
you can actually get four click hammers for those and
just swap them out. You might, you know, you might
have to fit them, but you can swap out traditional hammers.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
And get rid of that stuff.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
So performance wise, do you feel or see a difference
between the the more safe and original designs.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
I suppose theoretically it's, you know, the one more part
to go wrong potentially, but I don't think most people
when they aim in and fire would know the difference. Yeah, agreed, cool.

Speaker 6 (28:34):
And for everybody that.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Doesn't know what we're talking about, the safety mechanism so on,
an original cold single action army. Here is one. You've
got a fire and pin mounted with a man that
is d the hammer.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
It is shiny. We'll talk about this gun.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
I don't I don't like it. Oh it's not great.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
It's pretty though, that's all that matters.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
It is pretty and luckily it's got that going for it.

Speaker 4 (28:59):
Kind of like my ex wife, it's it's pretty good.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
It's kind of a piece of shit. So and she
listens regularly, so I'm sure anything she could ask for
more money for she'll she'll take a swing at it.
But anyway, and you could see probably if they get
into the camera, the fire and pin is poking out
right there. So when this thing has six rounds on
it and your hammer is down, you've got a fire

(29:23):
and pin resting on your hammer, and if something bumps
that hammer, you know it could go off. You know,
generally we don't want to rest our fire and pin
on our hammer. I think that on our primer that's
a that's a no note. So what they would do
is I understand it. You know, one hundred years before
I was born. And if you shoot Cowboy Action, you'll

(29:46):
get really familiar with this load one skip one load
four and when you drop the hammer, it'll be on
an empty chamber. And then if they allegedly, if they
knew they had a fight come in, then they'd put
another one in there and roll the dice on it.
So that's what all the dime store novels and tell

(30:07):
me which which checks out. But yeah, and there's a
number of those guns still around today. That is why
Ruger did the conversions of their original three screw Blackhawks.
That's why Freedom Arms has a very robust do not
shoot yourself disclaimer and recommends that you don't carry a

(30:31):
loaded chamber under the hammer. And their guns too, and
even at their mechanism, I don't I don't know that
I feel that way about it, but that's they had
a lawsuit when the four fifty four f eighty three
first came out.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
They've kind of they had that policy ever since then.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
So we saw Ruger put a transfer bar in there,
and what that is is a bar that comes up
actually acts as a spacer, and then when the hammer
hits the transfer bar, it transfers energy into the firing
pin that's mounted in the frame. And if you've ever
got one, So this is an old forty five cold

(31:07):
Blackhawk that's had the conversion. There's a mark they put
on it after they did it, so you know if
it's converted. But if you don't know if it's converted,
pull the hammer back and then if there's a big
old bar sticking up right there, you got to transfer
a bar in it. And that's on the three screw guns.
Your your new models will all have two pins instead

(31:30):
of three screws.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Are there are there dangers of carrying it half cocked instead? Okay,
so we have it, We have a definitely.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
So let's say I wouldn't do it. No, I mean
it's the mechanism is half cocked, the hammer is half energized,
it goes forward for any reason, it's it's probably going
to go off at that point. So depending on what's
under it, which depends on the gun. You know, different
things and different guns happen different orders when you call them,

(32:01):
depending on the lockwork of the gun. Yeah, don't don't care.
You've got a half cock freedom arms, I think there is.
It's not exactly a half cock, but they do have
an internal safety. It's like an ar that you activate
by pulling the hammer forward, and I think and letting
it go down into another on.

Speaker 4 (32:18):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
I don't actually carry my Freedom Arms guns that way.
I just treat them like a black hawk.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah, And what are the ones that have a notch
between each cylinder that you can rest it on.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
A lot of cap and ball guns did that?

Speaker 3 (32:32):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (32:33):
So that was that was super common in those days.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
I might have one here.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
So why wouldn't that Why wouldn't that go into this
realm as well?

Speaker 1 (32:46):
You know, that's a good question. I don't know. Uh,
somebody else might. I don't know. I don't know why.
I'm assuming it's a lockwork thing where you've got more
your lockwork would not be as robust because it would
be twice as many stops. That's probably a chauncy question.

Speaker 5 (33:07):
Yeah, I believe Colt tried it, and I've seen some experimental,
non experimental guns, but i've seen guns modified.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
I believes in it a fief article and it had.

Speaker 5 (33:21):
Between you're locking actual locking notches there. They had additional
notches between your notches. And that's not a great idea
for a couple of reasons. Cuts down on cylinder strength,
and if your guns kind of out of time and
your bolt is dropping early, then you're gonna catch it

(33:42):
in one of your spare notches there and you're gonna
tear chiven.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
So it's really not a good idea.

Speaker 5 (33:48):
It's just better to carry it again with five and
move on with life.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
The only modern ish gun I know that does that
is the Ruger Old Armies. If you're not familiar with it,
that is Rugers somewhat facsimile of an eighteen fifty eight
that they will deny it. But you can ship loads
of smokeless powder in one of these things and it
won't hurt it one bit. Like every three Ruger makes.

(34:15):
It's a tank, but like this Old Army is locked
in a in a half notch and you can see
him between the pen.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Seats and Fred mentioned cylinder didn't have the space because
of cartridge.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
RIM's probably jets up. Yeah, hi Fred, good stuff.

Speaker 6 (34:41):
Yeah I made it? Miss anything?

Speaker 4 (34:44):
Nah?

Speaker 1 (34:45):
Everything?

Speaker 4 (34:46):
You were alive for most of this stuff anyways, you
didn't miss anything.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah, there we go.

Speaker 6 (34:52):
You're just yet you're just yetting me tonight.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Buy Ins busy doing single action things he needs to
be doing with file.

Speaker 4 (35:01):
He's fitting your grip frame in't he.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
He's got to finish his so I can get mine
gets dropped off tomorrow. I need I need him done
with his so he can get to work on mine,
which will be good because he got to figure it
all out on his, and the mind should be go easier.

Speaker 4 (35:18):
It will be the nice one.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
Apparently it is awesome. Gun recoils less that did when
it was a half pounds heavier, and yeah, and it
actually feels like a gun with the grip.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Those are the what three and a half or three
seven five forty.

Speaker 6 (35:37):
Three seven forty four mags super Black Home.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
So Taylor did a run of those. It's been a
while with plow handled grips.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Yeah, it's done.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
That's one of the few guns I ever sold. But
do you regret it? No, No, with that, with that,
that is not the right grip for that gun. That one, yeah,
decent was painful with.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
The round bytes And we developed a load just for
him with Steve, and they're going to be cool as hell.
So yeah, they're like an aluminum round. But now, yeah,
and we developed a load for him that shoots nice
and flat and they're blasty as hell, but they don't

(36:28):
hurt to shoot. They're serious, but they don't shoot, they
don't kill you run them, so they'll be pretty cool. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Well that's been all of Steve's AMMO.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
It's just been absolutely fantastic.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Yeah, these these should work really good. It's basically almost
the urban version of the white Hammer load. So the
meat hammer is a three hundred. These are going to
be a two hundred, but with the exact same powder charge.

Speaker 5 (37:00):
What velocity of that, right, Daryl.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
They're running out of these three seven five guns or
twelve hundred feet per second, that's perfect. Yeah, so they're
they're fast, but not you know, they're fast enough. Those
xtps are really going to work, but they're not stupid.
That's particularly out of a out of a you know,
some four inch gun. So yeah, we're pretty we're pretty

(37:23):
happy with this project.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
So that brings up a question I have for you
guys that are doing also reloading, not only shooting or
the single actions, but the double action revolvers and doing
your own reloads. Are there specific loads for the specific guns?
Do you have specific single action loads versus specific double
action loads?

Speaker 3 (37:49):
I don't loading, so I don't know.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
I'm closing blous too. Yeah for the guns, sure, because
that's all like I worry about what pressure I can
get in the gun and then want I can tolerate
to shoot. Not as good as I should be about
developing loads for you know, I got a three and three.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
Point seventy five forty five cold.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
And I got seven and a half forty five cold,
and like the optimal load for those guns. It's it's
not They're not super picky. It's another good forty five
cold thing. But you know, it's different. If I only
had one of those guns and had to develop a
load for, it'd probably be a different one than what
I use. So but I'm more like, yeah, I know
this gun needs twelve thousand PSI, so that's what.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
I load for. And I know that one over there
can take sixty two thousand.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
So that's where I come at it from.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
Well, I have done some development stuff because my goal
has always used these more in more of an urban environment, yeah,
and sort of a you know, backup role in the outdoors,
not really a hunting gun. So all of my single
accents have usually been real short barreled stuff. On the
first load I really developed myself was a black powder

(39:03):
load for the U for my door answering gun because
of light yon fire that was basically about a two
point fifty and one thousand feet per second black powder
and that was developed specifically. It was in an old
Viccaro so it can take anything he can put in it.
And then you know, Brian and I with this three
seven five guns, we didn't want to you know, they

(39:26):
were a little bit abusive with the big heavyweight stuff
that Brian likes in the hunting gun. Like I said,
it's the exact same powder charge everything except one hundred
grain lighter bullet, so it takes a lot of the
recoil out. But and it gets that that bullet shooting
super flat and Brian said it's I haven't shot yet.

(39:49):
Brian said, super blasty, which which I want. Super blasty.
And you know, in this kind of gun, we're going
on the hood the.

Speaker 6 (40:01):
Hoods, the woods.

Speaker 4 (40:04):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
And that's going to be available through high desert.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
Yeah it'll be, Yeah, it'll be you know, like I said,
we're prototyping it now. We still got a little bit
of work to do. But once it's done yet, that'll
be a high desert load very cool.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
And so then there will be the practice as well
as the carry variants and basically.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
All we do with that on the practice versus carry
is the one of them it's an XDP and the
other one's a total metal jacket platform, you know, which
that total metal jacket round, you know. And I had
to just do that deal in New Jersey. I just
run that, you know, It's just it isn't the big deal.
And then the other thing outside of the single action

(40:50):
is I'm bugging Steve right now for a forty five
auto rim, so that'll be it's one more load down
the west. He's working on one other thing ahead of it. Cool.

Speaker 4 (41:04):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
So Chelsea, for you with your reloading, do you have
specific loads for your each specific gun or do you
have you figured out there's there's a range that everything
can be kind of the same.

Speaker 5 (41:20):
So for about forty five colts, I'm liking to use
the same load because I don't want to have to
pick up this single last army and say, oh shit,
I've got to I've got to get this load out
of this box. I think of this USFA and you know,
I don't want to have to jump around and shoot
different loads with the same within the same cartridge for

(41:40):
very similar guns.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
You know, I've got.

Speaker 5 (41:41):
Three three of these right here, and I want to
I want to run a two fifty or two seventy
ish grain bullet at nine hundred to one thousand, and
that's that's where I want to live with those guns.
The usually on these Colts and usfas and your Italian guns,
they're going to regulate right around that weight, that velocity.

(42:05):
They're going to shoot to the sites in most cases
in that neighborhood, unless it's this Colt, because Colt refuses
to do math and put the correct front sight on
their revolvers. Even this second gen gun, and it's got
a short front sight, so it's a six o'clock old
gun rather than a dead hold gun with that load.

(42:28):
Now for my hunting guns, like this is a seven
and a half inch old model black Hawk forty four
MAD and this gun also has a short front site.
So I run two hundred grande xtps over twenty through
god twenty four and a half grains and twenty four hundred,

(42:48):
so it's getting on out there. I believe that load's
running around sixteen hundred out of this guin, but it's
used to the site's at that velocity with that bullet,
I don't want to run that load, but I'm kind
of shoehorned into running it because of the sites, and
it's a fairly rare gun, and I don't want to
swap out the front side on it. So in some cases, yes,

(43:11):
I do tailor ammunition to specific guns, but it's hardly
just every day using guns like my forty five colts,
I want to shoot the same load out of all
of them.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
Yeah, yeah, what about your twenty ninees?

Speaker 3 (43:26):
My twenty nine's.

Speaker 5 (43:26):
I run a two hundred and sixty grand Keith bullet
at about twelve fifty, and I like, I really like
that particular bullet.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
It's a.

Speaker 5 (43:38):
It's a HG five oh three. It's a it's a
version of the original Keith bullet, and it's a really
good version of it. It's super stable at distance, really consistent,
and you know, it's got a fairly it's not a
small meat plat, but it's a fairly small meat plat
in comparison to a lot of commercially cast bullets that

(44:01):
they call Keith bullets actually are not Keith bullets are
just SIMI wantcutters.

Speaker 6 (44:09):
The other thing that will sort of dictate this more
than the gun.

Speaker 3 (44:12):
It's me it's is it a fixed sight a gun
like a Macaro, or do you have adjustable sites you
can work a little bit with. So, yeah, I've got
I before I used to have quite the affinity for
the old gigantic framed uh you know, the carrows, particularly

(44:32):
in forty five colt and usually the shorter barrel one.
So you're gonna get kind of stuck with what those
guns like, with the sites that they come with, unless
you're going to be grinding on them. And if and
like Chauncy said, unless it ends up being a short
front site, then you've got no where else to go,
but either change in side pictures are building a load

(44:54):
to it? Cool?

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Well, I'm gonna take a quick little break. It's just
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(46:57):
dot com. Cool, darryl Ye, during your career, did you
see many people carrying single action revolvers?

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Now?

Speaker 6 (47:11):
Why is in southern California?

Speaker 3 (47:14):
Shah?

Speaker 6 (47:15):
You didn't see any of that stuff?

Speaker 3 (47:16):
I think you know. Now here's the thing, you know,
Carrie in versus the single action shooting society was huge
in where I work, I mean Norco was there a
lot of their big matches, a lot of their champions.
I mean lou Guys now was one of their champions. Uh.

(47:37):
You know, Gordon Davis taught me everything I knew about
weather back in the day. And you know, I we
had a lot of the best single action shooters in
the world. I used to go shoot with Cisco World
Fast Draw Dice is because Dad, his wife, you know,
all World Fast Raw champions. So we had a lot
of people, but it was very much more so. Cow

(48:00):
was very much more cowboy action oriented than anything else.
I was unique in that I liked certain aspects of
a single action as a defensive gun. I think I
mentioned before my door answering gun. For a lot of
years was a sheriff, a true sheriffs, you know, no

(48:23):
ejector rod snub custom baguero and you know, for a
variety of reasons. And then uh, going into that, what
I've found lately. Things have changed now now that I'm
here in Oklahoma and I work so much in the
truly work in the equestrian and cow community, you know,

(48:47):
because I work at the place it's the you know,
horseshow Capital of the world, Cowtown, you know, or Catleman's Congress,
all that stuff. I have a very much newer appreciation
now that I'm around people who actually do carry these
all the time. And it's re sparked an interest for us,
particularly AFR, with single actions, because we're seeing so much

(49:11):
practicality for them, for a ton of people who are
actually on horseback side by side, working out in.

Speaker 6 (49:21):
The field, working around large animals.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
I'll tell you what I don't need to tell you know,
I mean Chauncey, this is his day every day to work.
You know, I'm used to you know, get a thud life.
But for me to now be around often be around
horses and particularly angry cows, I have a deep new
appreciation for these guns that A, if you get hurt

(49:48):
by one of these animals, you don't you know, you
really don't have a chance of your done going off.
And B if you end up having to put an
animal down. Things that start with four, it is a
good place to start with that. So we're getting me personally,

(50:10):
I'm getting a complete new appreciation for these guns for
how safe they are for normal people. And it's a
different type of normal people than I'm used to. I'm
used to the uh, you know, tactical timmy field carry
urban crowd. That's a whole different thing. Well, now that

(50:32):
I'm around real country people, they're not gun people. Guns
are tools. It's like you're you know, I now have
a set of the players, the of fencing players. You know,
guns are like fencing players. You know, It's just it's
something you need and they have a different practicality and
the single actions really fill a fantastic role with that

(50:57):
to steal a lou guys, no terminol. The gun is dead.
It's a dead gun until you cock it. That gun
is just dead, particularly like modern rugers that you can
load state they're not going off, they're not doing anything.
The gun is dead, and people putting their fingers on trigger.
None of that matters with these you know, TV gun

(51:20):
handling doesn't matter, dropping them doesn't matter. Getting crushed by
animals or rolling over on your ATV or your Z track,
you know, all of these things don't matter with these guns.
They don't do anything until you cock it, and then
when you fire it, you got to start over. So
if you think about I look at it from a

(51:41):
defensive shooting thing against in an anti personnel role, or
in a panet roll in the field dealing with an animal,
it is a constantly thinking thing because every time you
cock it, pull the trigger, you've got to rethink the
problem to start over. You cannot shoot these guns emotionally. Now.
When I was training with Cisco, obviously Cisco shoots these

(52:03):
things at at a at a beyond stupid level. He
did a demo for my swat guys where he from
the holster shot six individual playing cards in under a
second from the holster with a single action, using full power,
you know, using live ammunition. It was the most impressive

(52:25):
thing I have ever seen done with a firearm. Everybody
gets excited about I hit that playing card five times
from concealment under five seconds. Dude, this guy hit it
six times from a draw with a single action. I mean,
give me a break. Yeah, that's what fast really looks like.

(52:46):
And but you know, I know that I practiced this
two to three hours every night, you know, with action stuff.
So it's a different world. But where I'm seeing this
practicality again is for normal people gun again, trigger pull weights.

Speaker 6 (53:00):
For people who are impaired physically, you.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
Know, might have our right at hand damage whatever, they're
not either dealing with a double action trigger. Again, the
gun is pretty safe until you cock it, and then
they become very you know, you've got to really be
their own trigger. But most of the people who use
these don't cock them until there's an absolute reason for it,
you know. So yeah, we're finding that there's a lot

(53:25):
of attributes, almost like the double action revolvers, Like everybody
forgot about all the great attributes. These single actions have
a huge amount of great attributes to them that we're
sort of rediscovering now and trying to dig into the
depth of building some training programs around that and building

(53:45):
guns around it that are very functional in that world.

Speaker 6 (53:49):
Again, you're using.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
These rugs as build ups because they're you know, there's
this they're they're extremely mechanically safe, and they're very rugged guns.
And then right down to we've had we when we
did Revolver Fest, we had Low teaching a class. We
own a battery now of AFR owns five twenty two
Wranglers as teaching guns.

Speaker 6 (54:11):
So you know, and you know, again, if you've thought.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
About some of the people out there who just want
a gun, twenty two Wranglers is a pretty good option
for not a lot of money. That the guns work,
and they're easy to shoot, you know, and they're also
really safe, so it'll be a great gun to start
kids on and stuff like that. Or if you've got
or particularly elderly people who a lot of times can't

(54:36):
manage any of these triggers or a slide or anything else,
all of a sudden, twenty two wrangler becomes a pretty
good fire extinguisher for elderly folks.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Yeah, I even do a twenty two mad now right
super Angler?

Speaker 3 (54:49):
Yeah, yeah, yep. So there's a lot of really cool
options out there that we're sort of discovering. And the
guns are fun. You know, they're fun to shoot period.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Chauncey was talking about the bear Cat and I mean,
it's it's it's tiny.

Speaker 4 (55:10):
It is a tiny little gun.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
You're tiny, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
I mean you can't. But they're big enough that have
grown up can shoot them just fine. But I mean,
you know, Matt, this way, you don't have to make
your kid wait till he's in his forties to enjoy
these things. You know, go find a Bearcat or Wrangler.
I think I have to get one tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (55:28):
Well, theers are so cheap too.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
The problem to the bearcats was that we've like I
could never spend that kind of money on one of
those things because they always brought a lot. They brought like.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Really, they're they're very well made guns.

Speaker 6 (55:44):
The second I find a storekeeper, it's over.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
When the credit card, and there is the credit card
will come out in the second I find one.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
You know how rare those things are. He has had
shopkeeper whole Stirs on his website. Yes, since he has
moved from Pennsylvania.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
And no one has found to put them in trust me,
I know, yeah, I know he's I find one.

Speaker 4 (56:13):
The holsters are sitting there.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
Yeah, no, I've I've tried to pry him out of
a couple of people and it's like nope. Yeah. And
and there are people I should be able to pry
guns at it, if that makes sense. Yeah, and that's
the one they're like, no, Nope, that one's not going anywhere.
I'm like.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Another one. I think the wranglers taking the barrier to
entry so far down from even a there's good deals
on single six is out there too, but if you
really want to try it, for like what a stake
it out that cost? The heritage guns are are not
the most refined, man, They're not bad guns. I know,

(56:54):
you know people that have them and have really good
luck with them.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
When I was at tor with Brian, one of the
things we did is watch them assemble the heritage guns
and I got to tell you it was moving to me.
The level of pride the guy who was putting the
guns together took on putting that gun together.

Speaker 6 (57:17):
I was I could not have been more impressed.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
And you know that the guy like to see an
American worker in this day and age who is really
a low You know, this guy probably couldn't have gotten
many other jobs. And he took so much pride in
how they put the guns together, explaining all of it
to us what he does putting them together. You know,

(57:42):
it's a guy who builds a lot of them. And
I was like, I'd buy one of these in a minute.
And again they're not very expensive, you know for an
entry level go out and have fun, shoot camps and
snakes and things, you know, on squirrels and rodents and
whatever they're they're fantastic.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
They run a remate at least once a year, I
think twenty five or thirty five bucks. I mean, you
can get the five and a half inch blued Wrangler
with not regular the heritage intle action twenty two revolvers
with a twenty two mag and twenty two long rifle cylinder.
For I mean, it's around one hundred, one hundred and

(58:21):
twenty bucks, which is yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:25):
And then the rude or the ranklers or what you know,
they're to twenty usually is where I'm seeing them too.
Twenty there you know, you'll see your job a little bit.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Yeah, yeah, two hundred every now and then, right.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
And you know those are all great buys as just
an entry into this world.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
Oh you know, people are like, I don't want that one.
It's got the cast frame. Like, well, I got the
bad they all got. They're all cast frames. Yeah, that
freedom arms you got that things cast too.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Yeah. So yeah, all the ones that were putting nuclear
rounds and those are all.

Speaker 6 (59:02):
Yeah, and there's a reason for that.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
They don't have any internal stresses in the state and
in the fortune well ideal yeah, well, I mean ruger
castings or yeah, that's the one thing you won't find
in them, you know.

Speaker 4 (59:17):
Yeah, that's their phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Yeah, so, Darrel. One of the things also you were
talking about was the viability. I thought that would be.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
A cool thing for defensively, I appreciate, especially appreciate.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Yeah, the single action press that it is a dead gun.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
If anything that needs to be reiterated, it's a functional tool.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
We will be reiterating because, like I said, we you know,
if you told me a year ago that a f
R is going to go hard down than single action road,
I would have laughed at you. And here we are
because we are finding so much viability for a lot
of people now that we've so much left the tactical

(01:00:02):
world and sort of into normal human being world. And
again for me moving to a rural place and dealing
with normal pick up driving rural Americans who have horses
and cows and livestock and live on it. And you
know people who you know having a you know, like

(01:00:23):
a Polars Ranger or a cant Em or you know
those are little John Deere, those are their normal vehicles.
All of a sudden, this different world. You see different tools,
and these are very very viable tools in that world.
By the same token, you know, think about most of
your typical robbery burglary scenario for most people. Again, I'm

(01:00:51):
sitting there going, if I had somebody with almost no
training sitting in a bedroom scared to death, this might
be a good thing. You know that there might not
be anything wrong with this, because the reality is they're

(01:01:13):
not pulling a reload with anything. So I'm not even
worried about the reload speed. What I'm worried about is
them making a good decision and continuing to make a
good decision and then not shooting emotionally, because emotional shooting,
which we watch all the time with trained professionals on
bodycam going into flat fear mode emotional shooting. Those are misses.

(01:01:39):
I would rather have the scared person get some hits
with one of these things. That sends in most cases
is going to send your These are channel changing guns.
If all I need to do is change your channel,
I don't necessarily need to capture you. When I'm done,
they're fine.

Speaker 6 (01:02:00):
You know, I don't need to pursue you. I don't
need to search for you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
I don't need to do anything. I just need to
change your channel and make you go away. A lot
of these guns are perfectly viable for that. And you
know when I talk about my door opening gun, there
was a reason for that thing. Again, the way I
justified that gun and so Cal was a it was
it doesn't get more PC. He used to keep it

(01:02:26):
by the door. I just grab it and throw it
in my back pocket. Again, it's not cocked, it's not
going to hurt anything. I didn't need a holster. I
could just shove it into whatever I had, or just
hold the thing and didn't feel particularly unsafe. And the
reality is, if I ever had to light that off
inside of the kill box, I had in front of

(01:02:47):
my front door. Everything in there was going to be
on fire. The other thing is, i'll tell you right now,
with black powder, gang members have never seen that. They
have all I'll tell you what. They've all had guns
pointed at them. They've been shot at, been shot, are
familiar with shot shooting things. You know what, those guys

(01:03:09):
have never seen before. They have never seen a short barreled,
high velocity black powder round go off in their life.
And I imagine of being in front of that would
be absolutely terrifying. And again, all I need to do
is change your channel. I just needed to go away.
And nothing that says you go away, the black powder

(01:03:31):
sas go away.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
That is, if the FBI ever shot the original forty
five ACP Winchester Ranger at them, which is the flashiest,
smokiest smoke the sambo I've ever seen. It removes the
need for weapon light.

Speaker 4 (01:03:53):
So you have that for everyone.

Speaker 6 (01:03:57):
Yeah, but you know, it's a thing, and it works.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
I mean, nobody can contend that round didn't work on
humans really good in the environment we used to shoot
them in, you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
Know, and human physiology hasn't changed, no, you know, we
you know again, I always hear that.

Speaker 6 (01:04:14):
Well, you know, I shoot instinctively.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Instinctively again, holding a thing in front of your face
and it blows up is not instinctive. People don't.

Speaker 6 (01:04:23):
Yeah, people don't like things blowing up in their face.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
I mean, you know how many noise flash and I'll
just say flash bank because I'm old? How many flash
bangs you think I've been around being deployed and being
the bad guy with them, or the role player or
the the instructor that's inside of a shoot house when
the bangs are coming in and stuff.

Speaker 6 (01:04:44):
You know what I still do? Yeah, I still close
my eyes.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
I can't. I can't make it go away when they
go off. I still close my eyes. And well, you
should do all the things that now I don't. It's
not like the first time, especially back in the days
of things like the accuracy system, actual stun grenades, which
really were you know, they turn your insides out, but

(01:05:12):
you know, like def texts instead of whatever. Keep throwing those.
But I'm still going to close my eyes when they
go off. You know, there's certain things you can't change
with people, and and crap blowing up in their face
is not a happy place for anybody, and especially bad
guys who think they are you know, you didn't get
selected because they thought they were going to get shot.

(01:05:34):
If they get shot in the middle of making the
wrong selection again, they tend to be channel changers, and
that's been the big thing with me is kind of
getting out of cop mode into normal people mode, you know,
cop mode when they go up against the cop there
or you know, in John's experience with the military stuff,
when you're going up against copper, a soldier that's a

(01:05:56):
fight and they're geared. They're geared for that, you know,
against going up against prey that all of a sudden
doesn't act like prey anymore. You know, that's not necessarily
the same thing, and flight becomes a better option for
that when they go from pay mode to flight mode

(01:06:18):
is easier than trying to change them off of fight mode,
which is what the cops and the mill guys get.
Cops and mill guys get. People already in fight mode.
You know, they're they're pass fight or flight, they're at fight.
You know. So again, some of this is understanding what
your opponents are like. You know, of course, yeah, you'll
get a you'll get to keep buffalo out there that

(01:06:40):
you know, will beat up a bunch of whatever you
shoot at. I'm of a handgun. You know, they happen,
but you know the reality is most of them become
dear pretty quick. Yeah. So again that's just you know,
and that's kind of a difference I saw with people shot.
There was always a big difference between people shot kind

(01:07:04):
of what their reaction was in a fight versus people
shot becoming victims, whether the victims of a robbery or
something shot them or a krook shot eight. Actual victim
reactions were completely different than people already jacked in in
a fight getting shot. And again that stuff that you

(01:07:25):
got to factor in. Sadly, a lot of people who
are pontificating have never seen either one of them for real,
so it's all theory based. And yeah, I watched a video. Okay, cool,
No you didn't talk to them, did you. Okay, that's
what I thought.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
You know, actually directly responsibly for me carrying a revolver
now most days, because he wrote an article like you said,
getting out a cop mode, getting out of a commando mode,
Like I need a clock, you know, I full sized
clock with a seventeen round mag and a plus two
extension at all times, and you know, he's like, yeah, man,

(01:08:07):
I carry a LCR in three twenty seven, but I
never put three twenty sevens in it. I think you
have what the gold dot thirty two hn R load.
And then I just don't go places I'm going to
need that big ass gun. I just don't go there.
I don't go to downtown Denver. I don't go to

(01:08:28):
crappy places like I'm retired. I work on this computer,
you know, one of the two, and I don't. I
don't go anywhere I feel like that's.

Speaker 4 (01:08:35):
Going to be an advantage to me anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
So I'm like, yeah, you know what, man, I go
from my house. The safest place I will be to Shields,
the second safest place I will ever be in northern Colorado. Dude,
I don't need my plate carrier in my truck. What
about my vision? Yeah, I don't need I don't need
that shit, So I don't carry it anymore.

Speaker 6 (01:08:57):
And weirdly, I just went off posite.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
I just got sworn into the Sheriff's department here, and yeah,
I went out and I bought a block forty eight
with a co on it, which I carry is both
a uniform and you.

Speaker 6 (01:09:10):
Have a non uniform gun if I think I need.

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
But you know, when I'm working in uniform doing that, yeah,
I'm hearing that. I'm also authorized here at three and
a half inch twenty seven, which is kind of cool,
but you know, realistically, if I have to go hunt
bad guys again, you know, a G forty eight with
a CoA and my styra aug is you know.

Speaker 6 (01:09:32):
It like, I don't remember how to do.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
This stuff vibe.

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
Yeah, it's just pick your tools for it. I got
tools for that, you know. But most of the time
I'm pretty happy, you know, with a revolver. And most
days these days it seems to be my two and
a half inch GP one hundred is getting a NOD
a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
And I still shoot my blocks, you know, I still compete.
All means, Yeah, it doesn't mean. It's just they're all tools.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
And like I said, I just found a world, particularly
with the single actions. If your primary tool is a
fencing buyers, there's a viable place for single actions, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
So before we continue, because I have a question to
present to you, guys, I do have something to share
with you that Gary just sent to me. And he said,
because Gary Hughes can't make it, he said. At the
very least he can share this. I just need to
find it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
Is he shooting a sheep with a single action going close? Okay,
I saw that one earlier.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
It'd be nice if I could figure out maybe my computer, Man,
why does this have to be so complicated?

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
I'll tell you why. Because it's dumb and we're talking
about single actions. An item makes computing four times harder.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
Yeah, rules, it's funny. I just noticed this is modcast
and we're not doing Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:11:11):
We get that at the beginning.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Yeah, yeah, that's why we can't have anything nice.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
Johnson probably actually uses his single action revolver more than
uh probably anyone at this point.

Speaker 3 (01:11:27):
Yeah, a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
Yeah these are fun for me. That's a tool for him.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
You know. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:11:37):
I use them a lot on livestock at times. Uh
can I hunt with him too? But I carry a
single action. I go through phases. We all get through phases.
Sometimes I carry a double action again just because I
like them. I like my in frames. But I always

(01:11:59):
go back to the single action army platform, whether it's
a forty five or thirty two twenty or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
I just enjoy thirty two twenty is an underrated cartridge.

Speaker 5 (01:12:10):
This is a first gen again, this has not seen
twenty again, and it's it's not in bad shape for
being a first gen, but it's still it's a gray gain.
But this is one of the most accurate six guns
that I own. Uh, it's just a it's a little

(01:12:31):
freaking laser and I've always loved the thirty two to twenty.
It's a it's a hell of cartridge.

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
Yeah, you know, I'm there on the you know, for me,
double action is a thing, but I do like the singles.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
B Gary sent me a picture of Sandy with a
single action revolver. He said, sure this since he can't
make it. If you're if you're listening on video a listening,
you're listening on audio, Yeah you're you're missing out.

Speaker 1 (01:13:04):
That's ellers to it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
Being it looks like we are showing guns. Let me
because it's sitting in front of me. Because I got
to drop it off with Brian, So lou guys Nell
came by and uh spent spent the night here last
night or night before drop this off for Brian to
work on. It needs a little Brian love. But you know,

(01:13:32):
it's a Ruger three fifty seven Vacaro and a Doc
Brownie inside the waistband. Yeah, bolster, do you really think
guys now who is a former champion sashooter, gun site constructor,
extremely was an extremely competent so Cal cop and and

(01:13:53):
Liu warked at the ghetto? Is that really like gonna
hurt him?

Speaker 6 (01:13:59):
You know now lives in Prescot, Arizona.

Speaker 3 (01:14:01):
I mean, you know, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that,
you know, and if that's why you get you know
that that's the difference between living and dying for many
of us in the world we live in. You know,
that wasn't the problem. Your tactics were generally the problem

(01:14:22):
being someplace stupid.

Speaker 4 (01:14:24):
Yeah, putting yourself in that position in the first place.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
If you ever doubt how fast and accurate someone can
fire one of these things caveat you know, somebody told me,
like I carry up or at a PX four. Why
have you seen Ernie Langdon shoot that thing? Like yeah,
and I've seen you shoot You ain't Ernie Langdon. You know,
there's there's some challenges to the manual of Arms, but

(01:14:52):
go watch one of these eighteen year old national champion
Cowboy action shooter whose granddad, dad and now they're the
third generation that this is all they've done their whole life.
Watch them shoot a thirty eight special ten times between
two guns and hit every target.

Speaker 6 (01:15:10):
I mean, what's the kid on Instagram's like lever gun
Kid or.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Something levergun Kid, and there's Matt Well lever gun Kid.

Speaker 6 (01:15:19):
I could sit there all day watching those videos.

Speaker 4 (01:15:22):
Yeah, how fast that kid is.

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
Yes, the Matt Black kid, that's the kid. I mean
he's an adult now, but like just videos him when
he was thirteen years old when a national championships and nuts.
You can't slow it down enough to see them cock
the hammer. It sounds like an MP five going filato.

Speaker 3 (01:15:42):
Yeah. So yeah, you know, going back, Brian, I mean
Matt the when you asked me about kind of.

Speaker 6 (01:15:49):
Experience of seeing people a single actions.

Speaker 3 (01:15:51):
Yeah, yeah, I used to get because we had such
a big single action shooting society element and so cal
I would get those people. People ask me about self defense.
You know, I'm thinking about going and getting a glock,
you know, because the crime. I'm like, why are you
going to go get a glock? I mean I'm like,
I've seen you shoot a single action, just do that. Yeah,

(01:16:13):
there is no reason for you to try to learn
a new system that's going to not be you know,
you sit here and shoot these things all the time.
That can be your home defense gun. You're going to
be just fine with it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
Well, I think the question is and it's unfortunately so ignored,
and it's proficiency. Take anything, apply yourself to maybe take
a class or two, and you can become proficient.

Speaker 3 (01:16:43):
Well, and that's sort of why we've gone into kind
of getting it kind of walking down this road. Is
now we're like, you know, there's people who are actually
carrying these things and they have some viability. Let's try
to do some training sort of putting those into the
self defense context. And it's not like we invented this.

(01:17:04):
Like the one of the most violent periods in history
in the late eighteen hundreds, this is what they were
to use. Yeah, you know, and even back then there
was people who were really good and people who got killed.
And you know that the knowledge is out there is
just going out and digging that stuff up, yeah, and

(01:17:25):
applying it with some of those modern systems.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
Absolutely, and I could see me. Okay, so still full
time cop, doing patrol. Karen and Glock every day have
an ar if I took a class from you guys.
If you were teaching a single action revolver course, would
I benefit from it? Yes, yes, I would, not only personally,
not only intellectually, but my skill set because everything things translate.

Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
If you ever had to teach somebody that this is
a super viable, yeah, potential for you know that that
person who comes up with I got little tiny hands
or I've got very earthritic hands and whatever, and I
need to you know, all of a sudden, well here's
a you know, for two hundred and twenty five dollars,
here's a twenty two wrangler. I can teach you to

(01:18:14):
at least have something. You know, we start with have
a gun, and we'll go from there and.

Speaker 6 (01:18:21):
Then maybe if you can master that, we can move
into some other stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:18:26):
But it can be again teaching kids to shoot with
these things again where they're super really the manual arms.
I mean, if you had to supervise a kid shooting
one of these, which is why so many of them
started that way. You know, in in eras past, you know,
kids were always started on twenty two fingle actions. And

(01:18:50):
the first time I ever bought my daughter was a
cult frontier scout in twenty two. I mean, that's where
you start kids on handguns tradition.

Speaker 6 (01:19:00):
And there's a reason for that.

Speaker 3 (01:19:01):
They're easy to supervise them using them because again, until
the thing's cock they can't oh no, don't put your
finger on the trigger. Well I'd rather do that on
a single action before it's cocked. Yeah, you know that
then they grab the that you know, they get on
that that whatever it is, that's you know, you know,
you've got them shooting. That might not be as forgiving

(01:19:23):
of that, you know, where they don't have you know,
a glock or something, grip props yeah yeah, or even
you know, like yeah Block forty four or something. I mean,
you can screw that up pretty easily. Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:19:39):
We like them as training guns.

Speaker 3 (01:19:41):
But I mean again, if you're starting a kid on
that or starting somebody brand new, you know, you can
mess that up pretty easily.

Speaker 2 (01:19:48):
So well, it kind of reminds me of a video
I recently saw from some random fud talking about unloading
in the wrong order and how.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
All the time we'll cleared it out. Yeah, man, you
wrapped the round out of the chamber, then you drop it,
then you removed Yeah, got your neighbor through the dry ball.

Speaker 3 (01:20:10):
Like I said, the last two expert testimony cases I did,
one was a very significant injury. The oh, there was
a death from simply uh unloading or loading a semi
auto out of order.

Speaker 1 (01:20:26):
So we're talking about it.

Speaker 8 (01:20:29):
So the five and a half inch unconverted three screw
single six and uh so my kids, my older one
and younger one.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
Uh, the older one.

Speaker 8 (01:20:43):
This compared to like, I have a Mark three, I threaded,
I got a can on and a dot on, all
that kind of stuff, you know, and that's like video
game point and click right. Well, I handed her this
and she she was like, I show her how to
load it and unloaded, and I'm like, have at it.
She goes, Daddy, this is boring. And then five minutes
later she goes, daddy, I need more ammo. Yep, Like

(01:21:06):
you know, for like three hours the first day I
had her shoot this and and it's really you know,
it's one of the things we all like about revolvers,
and we should admit it is. You know, they're they're
they're adult fidget toys, right, so they're clicking, they're spending
all that all that really good stuff, and you know,
teaching kid that the basics, like you were talking about,

(01:21:27):
there's a lot more forgiveness with this. Even though it
doesn't have the transfer bar conversion done to it. There's
still a lot more forgiveness with this than there is
with uh with a semi auto, which should you know,
just in a moment of in attention, you could have
something really tragic occur, like you're talking about Darryl.

Speaker 1 (01:21:43):
Yeah, yeah, exact same one. Kids kids love it. Yeah,
they're they're fantastic, and they're like like laser beams.

Speaker 8 (01:21:53):
I mean, yeah, like I shoot, I shoot like clay
pigeons with this at fifteen one hundred yards just kind
of casual in the air.

Speaker 1 (01:22:01):
No, not in the air.

Speaker 3 (01:22:05):
The range.

Speaker 4 (01:22:06):
I take my care.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
That's what Chauncey does.

Speaker 3 (01:22:07):
You No, does.

Speaker 8 (01:22:09):
Absolutely If I put stuff up in the air, I'd
be shooting into the into the county fairgrounds, and the
Sheriff's office who controls that range probably wouldn't have appreciate
it very much.

Speaker 3 (01:22:19):
Well, let me let me throw this out here, because
you know, we got on the subject. You know, great
guns to teach kids to shoot? Yeah it is there.
Tell me what the difference is between teaching a kid
to shoot. And who are our most likely new people
at the firearms these days?

Speaker 1 (01:22:38):
You mean you're you know, yeah, first time gun owners,
first time.

Speaker 3 (01:22:43):
I'm particularly people who've hated guns their whole life will
all of a sudden realize the world sucks and my
defunded police aren't coming to save me.

Speaker 6 (01:22:54):
Are they different than training a kid?

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
Probably worse, honestly, because like around us, don't have a
gun stigma, right, They're kind of normalized to them, for
better or worse, depending on I handle it. So I
will say there.

Speaker 6 (01:23:10):
Is anything wrong with that of teaching them on something
like this.

Speaker 8 (01:23:15):
And I will say I have I have never felt
in danger teaching a child how to shoot the same
way I feel in danger teaching cops how to shoot.
Fair Enough, there's a certain there's a certain amount of
inherent risk which comes with the ego, which comes with
the badge, And and yeah, I've definitely seen some very

(01:23:37):
sketchy stuff happen with with police officers, which you know,
we're supposed to be experts when it comes to firearms,
and that's just that's not true for a lot of
police officers. That kind of stuff is a lot more
sketchy than you know, with a kid, even a young kid,
and something like this.

Speaker 4 (01:23:55):
I agreed.

Speaker 2 (01:23:56):
So with that in mind, if you were to suggest
something for a first time gun owner, what would it
be in single action? What would the model, the make,
and or caliber be and why? And it doesn't have
to be twenty two if you if you think, now
we can go. We can go for a three fifty
seven to load it with thirty eights or forty five coal,

(01:24:18):
which is clearly the best option.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
What do you guys think?

Speaker 5 (01:24:24):
I think that a new model route with a transfer
bar in three fifty seven because I don't chamber them
in straight straight up thirty eight in three fifty seven,
whether it be a Vocaro or a black Hawk, I
think that is a really good starter gun because the
manual of arms on a transfer bar gun is insanely simple,

(01:24:48):
and they're very safe guns. You can load them with six,
you don't have to worry about loading one, skipping one
and low recal because you can take you can stuf
that sucker up with a thirty eight special thirty graine
full metal jackets and it's like shooting the just dander
like a twenty two.

Speaker 1 (01:25:07):
And you can learn a lot by using those guns.
So that's my that's my opinion.

Speaker 3 (01:25:12):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
I think a steal three fifty seven is yeah, is
light enough in the recoil with your powder puff, you
know thirty eight special that the recoil and blast at
intimidating and then gives you some versatility. But I wouldn't
I wouldn't shy away from you know, if somebody was

(01:25:35):
very skittish about it, just steering them to a twenty two.
But I think, you know, if I just had to
pick one blind sight unseen, go get up, Go get
a three fifty seven new model Ruger, and.

Speaker 8 (01:25:49):
I am ninety nine percent in agreance there. The only
thing I might add is, depending on AMMO, if you
could pick up a convertible, that might add even more
util it. Because the nice thing about a single action
you don't need to worry about shell extraction you have
unless you have the type of door grenade, pocket pistol

(01:26:11):
Daryl's talking about you're going to have. You're you're going
to have an actual ejector rod, a springloaded ejector rod
in the gun, so you don't need to worry about
getting the shells in and out. As far as rimmed
versus rimless cases. So the single action thirty eight, three
fifty seven and even toss a nine mile cylinder in there,
I think is fantastic.

Speaker 3 (01:26:31):
That's a great idea.

Speaker 1 (01:26:33):
Yeah, those convertibles are kind of making a comeback. Rugers
always had them in the line. I know, forty five
been forty forty five, forty five ACP has kind of
been mistable. But they've done obviously twenty two long rifle
in twenty two mag. I think they still do in
the single six currently in the line, but they've certainly

(01:26:54):
done in the past thirty two, twenty and thirty two
H and R MAD converted through the old Buckeye distributors.
I got a buck eyed gun right here. It's a
ten milimeter auto and a thirty eight forty and I
mean there's there's no ten mil load you can load

(01:27:15):
that would hurt that gun, you know, really, thirty eight
forty two with that you can you can gas that
thing up.

Speaker 3 (01:27:24):
And then they did the.

Speaker 1 (01:27:26):
Three fifty seven's and nine mil what else forty four
to forty and forty four mag or forty four special
you guys remember one or the other.

Speaker 3 (01:27:36):
Don't know. I think I think there was forty four
mags because they were wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:27:39):
Yeah, I think so, yeah, and then forty five cold
and forty five ACP and I might have even missed
a couple in there. Colt's done it too. The gun
I'm not ready to talk about yet has a matched
ACP cylinder, so you know, if you match the bore
and it'll fit in the cylinder, You've got a lot

(01:28:01):
of options there for the convertible guns, and they're pretty cool.
The one caution if you load so all of our
rim cartridges generally headspace off or the case rim. That's
that's why we love them in revolvers. When you go
to remless cartridges, they're going to head space off the
case mouth. And you've got to be really particular about

(01:28:24):
how you crimp those cartridges and the sizing of them,
because if you overdo it, I've seen light strikes because
the cartridge will go ever so much further into the
chamber throat stuff like that. So when you do load
your if you if you handload your auto cartridges for
your revolver, be mindful of that crumper.

Speaker 4 (01:28:45):
It can give you some fits.

Speaker 3 (01:28:49):
You know, for me, I would if money wasn't you know,
the big object, I'd say a single six too man, convertible,
even a single seven and thirty two if requil then
so the one thing. And then if it became a
money budget thing, wrangler heritage. But what I really like

(01:29:13):
about a twenty two single action, if we're talking about
starting somebody out, is even if they progress past that
to whatever it is, that gun is never going to be.
That gun will always have a place, that will always
have a usefulness that you know, if you were to
invest right out of the gate, saying a twenty two

(01:29:34):
with a convertible twenty two single six man, that gun's
never going to.

Speaker 6 (01:29:41):
Be not useful for something.

Speaker 3 (01:29:43):
You know. It'll always be a good training gun, a
plinking gun, of a outdoors gun, a armitt gun, you know,
hiking fishing. I mean, you can always find a use
You'll never outgrow it, if that makes sense. You know,
if you get really into it hard, they can become
a teaching gun for kids and other people whatever. Again,

(01:30:05):
if you're looking for do it all, you know, the
three twenty seven ones really got some because you can
go from thirty two longs for people who you know whatever,
right to three twenty seven and all that and then
you know, for one of the things I am working
on a project with the nine millimeters three fifty seven convertibles.

(01:30:29):
What I envision that is, you know, the ban Life people,
the Overlanders, stuff like that. Boy, if you had to
have a gun that you could take everywhere in North
America and find AMMO and never go to jail just
for having it. There's a lot a lot to be
said for a Blackhawk, and nine milimeters three fifty seven

(01:30:49):
a lot to be said, you know for that. So
you know, any of those would be you know, kind
of my first choice on that stuff. You know, for
me personally, always liked the big boar stuff and these
just because again you know, when my first duty gun
was a forty five Coult and just y know, that
just becomes a thing for me.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
Just looking on gun broker, checking out the prices on heritage,
How get one?

Speaker 1 (01:31:18):
Freaks of the kids?

Speaker 3 (01:31:19):
Yeah, I mean, how can you not get one? If
you get you know, just if you got kids again,
what's that?

Speaker 1 (01:31:23):
What's the going rate on them? Just got check one
se they've gone a.

Speaker 4 (01:31:32):
Yeah, and then they're worth every penny of one hundred
and seventy five dollars.

Speaker 3 (01:31:36):
They'll get me round.

Speaker 1 (01:31:37):
Absolutely, it probably comes to two cylinders to you. Yeah,
so this, uh, this happened.

Speaker 8 (01:31:43):
This is a number of years ago, but uh I
had I want to say, it was a five and
a half and I shot the barrel smooth.

Speaker 1 (01:31:51):
And uh and I was yeah, yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:31:54):
I called him and I was like, hey, there's no
rifleing left in the barrel and they're like, oh, uh
well the gun to us, we're going to replace it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:01):
It was just like, yeah, this service that goes with
everything at Taris, I mean, we're pretty good about that.
Everything under their umbrella got a problem. Here's a new
one that's been you know, everybody's experience that I've that
I've known there.

Speaker 4 (01:32:15):
Darryl and I actually got to see those heritage guns
being built like at the factory. Poor guy, you know,
he was an American, but his English was very Southern Georgia.
We couldn't really understand what he was saying.

Speaker 1 (01:32:33):
European Georgia were.

Speaker 3 (01:32:36):
Yeah. I was telling the guys how it probably was
of making those like it was the greatest thing ever.

Speaker 4 (01:32:41):
You know, and watching all the processes and how he
did all the like he he kicked everybody else off
the line. It's like no, no, let me show you.
And he builds the entire gun and then at the
end he's function testing it in like two minutes. And
then they went and strapped that gun in do a
QC device that ran it through a series of dills,

(01:33:03):
and I was like, that's that's impressive for a sub
two hundred dollars gun. So oh, hi, guys, sorry, I'm late.

Speaker 1 (01:33:14):
Welcome.

Speaker 3 (01:33:15):
I don't even want you here. You need to rest.
You got work to do tomorrow.

Speaker 4 (01:33:18):
Man, my hands, it's her hurt.

Speaker 8 (01:33:25):
I texted Brian yesterday and uh, and he responded he
was like, dude, I've been so busy and just sends
me like a hundred pictures of stuff he's been working on.

Speaker 4 (01:33:34):
I was like, oh my god, I'll do it.

Speaker 3 (01:33:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:33:39):
Yeah, I can drive a file. But man, it's like, uh, nowadays,
I either file or I shoot. I can't do both
on the same day. It's it's uh, it's pretty tedious.
And that that frame fit was no joke. And I

(01:34:00):
did it at my house, so I didn't have my
nice space and machinist blocks and all that at my
dad's shop. So I was like, hold it on the
bench and run a file.

Speaker 3 (01:34:10):
So yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:34:11):
My forearms this morning were like cramped, but it turned out. Yeah,
yours will be a the RG shop.

Speaker 3 (01:34:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:34:24):
So uh yeah r W grip frame. So I now
have a Urban Lightweight Commander in forty four magnum. That's
what Hanny mc mood said. Dude, that's the Urban Lightweight Commander.
Look the uh but yeah it was. It was a

(01:34:45):
lot of fun. Ronnie shipped two of those frames with
my cardisstocks and they turned the first one turned out good.
I was like, Daryl, I'm doing your second trying to
figure out which good. But yeah, it came out nice.
And now I'm having all these impure single action thoughts

(01:35:06):
and yeah, it's great. And I keep seeing that you
I don't know where you guys were going subject wise,
but I keep seeing these teasers from USFA like they're
going to reboot.

Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
So yeah, we we talked about that a little bit.
That you know, when they were at their peak, they
built a nicer gun than cults ever made.

Speaker 4 (01:35:25):
Yeah, and I can remember my dad having the Rodeos
through the shop for like four hundred bucks.

Speaker 3 (01:35:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:35:32):
Those are the ones that built with Italian part like
a mix of parts right or rebuilt early on they were.

Speaker 4 (01:35:38):
Yeah, John Cy, that's like one of your main guns, right, Yeah, So.

Speaker 5 (01:35:44):
This one's this one's been many a mile with me.

Speaker 3 (01:35:49):
And that's it. That's all US made Rodeo. Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:35:53):
This one I actually traded for today. It's identical gun
forty five COLT form three quarters Rodeo and it's a
it's a few let's see, they're two hundred apart in
serial numbered range. They're both US made guns, identical and man,
they're they're awesome. And I've also got another one that

(01:36:15):
I got picked up that's coming in from a man
from Idaho this week hopefully, and it's a little bit
nicer again, it's a three second. They didn't make very
many of those.

Speaker 4 (01:36:27):
Yeah nice, So tell you I made up desions.

Speaker 3 (01:36:31):
They are fantastic guns.

Speaker 1 (01:36:34):
So this is guns from nineteen ninety seven from the
Cult Custom Shop four and three quarter factory Nickel forty
five COLT forty five ACP convertible and you know it's
from their custom shop for whatever that means, but probably nothing.
The sites aren't straight, the action is awful, the bult

(01:36:55):
fit is terrible. It's got to Brian. It's got a
ton of in shake, Like I don't know how else
to say it. Man, This, this factory cult custom single
action army from nineteen ninety seven is put together worse
than worse than any single action gun.

Speaker 4 (01:37:16):
I've seen.

Speaker 1 (01:37:18):
That hadn't been messed with like from the factory and
to come out of Colt shop, you know, blue box
letter and everything. It's awful, and I don't like it
enough to fix it.

Speaker 5 (01:37:31):
How large are the throats? Are they closer to four sixty?

Speaker 3 (01:37:34):
Did they?

Speaker 1 (01:37:34):
Let's find out?

Speaker 4 (01:37:37):
Oh gotta break out the pen gage set.

Speaker 3 (01:37:39):
I bet their fourth I bet they're four to fifty six.

Speaker 4 (01:37:43):
So today my project today was go shoot test fire
that forty four and me and Justin Collette from us
CCWS fifty out at their farm facility there. Justin had
a forty five Ruger Blackhawk from nineteen ninety that he

(01:38:03):
just picked up and he's like, dude, it's grouping like
six inches at twenty five yards with everything. So I
went over there with the throating grammer, punched the chamber
throats out, honed them, lapped the forcing cone, took my
two pieces of plate steel and made up a lapping
kit right there on site, which was kind of funny.

(01:38:26):
I was he was downrange firing the gun to me,
So I had one fired brass and I'm putting five
grains of two thirty one and shoving the bullets into
the upside down into the case.

Speaker 3 (01:38:37):
And He's like, and that gun had.

Speaker 4 (01:38:40):
The worst muzzle restriction I've ever seen in a like, Chauncey,
you were telling me about muzzle restriction, I'd never even Yeah, well,
it had thread choke, but it also had it on
the muzzle edge. Oh, on the muzzle Okay, yeah, yeah,
because the thread choke came out pretty quick in about

(01:39:01):
twenty rounds and then about another fifteen twenty to get
the muzzle to open up enough because it kept leaving
a lead ring and it was oddly right in line
with where the back of the front site base lined
up on the barrel, so like they overheated it and
it trunk up a bit. So, but when we lapped it,

(01:39:24):
it went from a six inch gun at twenty five
to about an inch and a half gun.

Speaker 3 (01:39:29):
So, yeah, that makes such a big difference on those guns.

Speaker 4 (01:39:32):
Daryl got to see it first hand on these brand
new forty four mags. It's like we're shooting patterns at
ten yards with just you know, five grains of bulls
eye or I don't remember what powder I use, unique
or something, and it's like they're almost keyhole and then
all of a sudden, it's like they're stacking on top
of each other.

Speaker 3 (01:39:52):
Yep. And then weird was weirdly when you attach the
front sites properly, that seems to help too.

Speaker 4 (01:40:00):
Yeah, So we took those Taylor guns out and I
started whacking away with three hundred grain high desert and
I'm like, and the front sight's loose. And then it
just popped off because they had drilled the tin and low.

Speaker 3 (01:40:15):
So I called them, Yeah, both of them on my Yeah,
I go.

Speaker 4 (01:40:19):
I called Daryl. I'm like, hey, check your front sight.
See if it's loose. He's like, yeah, sure enough, Like
pull harder, it'll fall off.

Speaker 1 (01:40:28):
You know, is four fifty four on the nose?

Speaker 3 (01:40:32):
Well, no, we've had for cold.

Speaker 1 (01:40:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:40:35):
This this second Gym guns four fifty six, I'll tell you,
from my point of view is sort of the knotted
gunsmith guy should never be around guns and tools and
reloading and stuff. Doing the fire lapping process was like
chicken blood sacrificing. Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:40:55):
We ordered some stage.

Speaker 6 (01:40:57):
Yeah, there was some sort of ceremony involved.

Speaker 3 (01:41:00):
I don't know, but it was weird, but it worked,
so apparently there is a voodoo magic things left in
the world.

Speaker 5 (01:41:09):
It's one of the few things in that realm where
you get instant gratification or like you're shooting the target
because you want to make sure your lightloads are coming
out the end of your barrel, and all of a
sudden you go from this down to this and you're like,
holy shit, this really works.

Speaker 3 (01:41:28):
It's pretty damn cool. Yeah, it was really neat watching
that process actually happen. And again, I think most people
of any generation of shooters live, especially if you're a
semi auto person. This is such bizarre black magic stuff,
but it's absolutely amazing to watch people who know what

(01:41:50):
they're doing work these guns over. It is truly a
pure American magical thing that you just hear the national
anthem going, well, it's happening. It's all good. So similar.

Speaker 1 (01:42:11):
So I don't know if you can see it, but
there are only carbon rings on three cylinders, all right,
One from the round they fired at the factory for
the for the spec casing or whatever, and the two
I shot through it. And after I shot two rounds
through it. I went, this thing is a piece of crap,
unloaded it and put it back in the box. John

(01:42:34):
one through everything.

Speaker 3 (01:42:35):
Very happy to have that gain.

Speaker 5 (01:42:37):
Some cult collector would be very happy to have that gain.

Speaker 4 (01:42:41):
Yeah, well they can.

Speaker 3 (01:42:45):
Don't tell them that. I was just going to offer
him a block or something for it. You probably know
what I got.

Speaker 1 (01:42:51):
I know what I got.

Speaker 3 (01:42:53):
There we go again, So.

Speaker 2 (01:42:58):
Along similar lines, how about the upkeep with these? How
in depth is it compared to other things? What are
things people should be paying attention to?

Speaker 3 (01:43:08):
Hey guys, I actually need to jump off here. But
now that Brian's on, you have the expert. I will
let him take over for a fr.

Speaker 1 (01:43:17):
So I just got to show this law real quick.
Oh that's the one got today?

Speaker 4 (01:43:23):
Yeah yeah, So thirty eight forty four Outdoorsman and you
know you not sites and beads they're new. This gun
shipped with them in nineteen thirty two, A you not
you rear sight and a bead front site.

Speaker 1 (01:43:40):
Scot was nineteen thirty three.

Speaker 4 (01:43:42):
I think, what are you going to say, Matt?

Speaker 2 (01:43:46):
I was going to say, before Darryl takes off, I
have to blame AFR for a recent acquisition of blame it.

Speaker 4 (01:43:54):
Yeah, Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:43:56):
The GP one hundred you guys posted, Yeah, I saw
that one.

Speaker 4 (01:44:01):
Yeah, I better get that which one five the five
inch half lug or an the three.

Speaker 3 (01:44:07):
The three inch Wiley clap for the Yeah, if you
can find them, if I have three of them, if
you can find them, they're amazingly good guys.

Speaker 1 (01:44:17):
Now, I just need to find a.

Speaker 3 (01:44:20):
What do you call it?

Speaker 2 (01:44:22):
I want to basically copy what you guys did, because
that looks ideal for Carrie.

Speaker 1 (01:44:28):
I need to uh that one, no, the g.

Speaker 6 (01:44:35):
That one that purchased for me.

Speaker 2 (01:44:37):
Yeah, yes, yeah, I need to somehow lop off that
that hammerspur Yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (01:44:44):
Then and then I should have rams Horn grips coming
for that any day. Now it's my new it's my
new Jewish secret Jewish things. I'm putting rams Horn on stuff.
Everything's a so far for conquer.

Speaker 9 (01:45:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:45:01):
He actually blew on the grips at the range the
other day and the retain wall fell down.

Speaker 3 (01:45:06):
That's you know, I've been doing a lot of Old
Testament stuff and you need to need to be blowing them.
I mean, it's got on your team. It's all good.

Speaker 4 (01:45:19):
The uh and I will say, like GP one hundreds.
Of course, every company right now is struggling with manufacturing
and QC, and uh, you know, there's varying levels of
ebbs and flows. But the one thing I've seen really
consistent out of Ruger is they don't seem to dick

(01:45:40):
up GP one hundreds.

Speaker 10 (01:45:42):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:45:42):
And that's talking to Michael Burgess quite a bit. He's like,
you know, yeah, they can be have rough surfaces and
things like that that will actually polish in over time
if you just dry press them.

Speaker 3 (01:45:56):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:45:57):
But Burgess is like, the GP one hundred right now
now is probably the most consistently built revolver on the
market if they just they changed the paint and trim.
But the guts of the gun are pretty good. And
even talking to Ronnie Wells, he's he's got some hammers
for GP one hundreds, teed up that. He said, you

(01:46:18):
know that the hammer is kind of the the one
thing that could be really improved. And I said, what
about triggers And he goes, oh, the triggers are fine,
which usually a lockwork set is a hammer and trigger.
And he's like, now that the triggers are in those
guns are actually cut really consistent. So uh, that's a
good I mean, it's a good thing out of the

(01:46:39):
firearms industry is that they just seem to really keep
those guns consistent so.

Speaker 1 (01:46:47):
Well they'll do them.

Speaker 4 (01:46:49):
Under four inches too, which is nice.

Speaker 3 (01:46:53):
All Right, I gotta go, guys, all right there, all right,
tomorrow run all right.

Speaker 2 (01:47:01):
Yeah, and for me, just that specific one, you guys
go that checked all the boxes, just like that's.

Speaker 9 (01:47:11):
I like, yeah, which won the three seven No three
fifty seven three inch? It's actually I think Ruger calls
it a two and three quarter or something. They're the
way they measure barrel links, like the old Speed six
three inches, they were actually two and three quarter, but

(01:47:32):
they look like a three inch. And the way they
do their ejector rod you get full extraction.

Speaker 4 (01:47:38):
Even on a two inch gun. So, but the Wiley
Clapp version was that was what I thought was neat
was he did the Matt blued colt with novaks and
basically took the GP one hundred, did the grip inserts
with the same like lambin it wood they used on

(01:48:00):
the nineteen elevens, So they were really stylized to be
like the Wiley Clapp Commander, the Wiley Clap GP one
hundred were aesthetically very similar, and they were both great guns.
Colton knocked those nineteen elevens out of the park and
then Ruger knocked the GP one hundreds out of the park.
And the only they're really the only complaint I hear

(01:48:23):
on GP one hundreds out of the box. They've got
a pretty stout trigger, but they break in really quick.

Speaker 1 (01:48:31):
I agree, if you drive fire at five hundred times
so it'll be a different gun. Don't go change in
springs and stuff. Oh yeah, that's cool.

Speaker 3 (01:48:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:48:39):
So Darryl put the they shipped with the compact rubber
over moold and he put the full length one on
that one. And then our our buddy Michael Burgess, who
I got word today he's going to fire up is
like type two FFL and start taking Ruger action and

(01:49:00):
timing work. The dude is well, like three dudes won
a Revolver Degenerate patch at the Revolver Fest with a
gun he had tuned. So I mean, dude knows what
he's doing.

Speaker 3 (01:49:13):
And uh.

Speaker 4 (01:49:15):
He started working on guns two years ago and we
had a conversation about Smith's and I was like, dude,
I got the smith thing. It's not that hard. Go
learn rugers because nobody's working on them. And he bought
a bunch of GP one hundreds SP one to one
speed six's service sixes. And he's a process engineer by trade,

(01:49:38):
so reading PRETT diagree.

Speaker 3 (01:49:41):
I got him to.

Speaker 4 (01:49:41):
Tundhausen manuals and sent them to him and he's like, oh,
I'm gonna start working on black hawks next week. Like uh,
but you know he knows how to correct end shape.
I actually watched him have a conversation with one of
Ruger's engineers out at revolver Fest and the guy was like,
where'd you find him? But he's like, you know, he's

(01:50:06):
done work on certain like students of ours and stuff
that hey, I'm at the conference, leave your gun with
me for twenty four hours and I'll dial it up.
He builds parts, drop in parts skits on existing stuff
that you can get it, kind of like the LTT
concept of a job in a bag. He'll do that

(01:50:27):
for a few people. But he's finally at the point
he's like, Hey, I'm winding down a career and I
think I want to jump into this. And I've seen
him unscrewed guns from some custom makers that were like, oh,
this is the premium ruder deal and he goes, yeah,

(01:50:48):
they clipped a couple of springs and polished it, you know,
and it's still got the same problems that had before.
So I've watched I've watched him really that arc of
like gunsmithing, where you go you get the concepts and
then you're good at it and then you're cosmetically good
at it. I watched him cress that whole arc in

(01:51:11):
like the Spanish six months, so, uh, you know, it's
it's pretty cool because he's like my best friend on Earth.

Speaker 3 (01:51:20):
And he.

Speaker 4 (01:51:22):
You know Chauncey, you met Ken Cardon or the guy
in the wheelchair from revolver Fest. Great, great dude. He
had sent a gun to a gun another gun shop
that charged him six hundred bucks and the gun was
a piece And I watched Michael set at the dinner

(01:51:47):
table at revolver Fest and completely go through that gun
and he goes, I can't fix it here. I'll take
it with me and ship it back to you, and
like he goes, dude, I wouldn't have charged this guy
twenty bucks for the work they did on it, yea.
And he's seen that a lot. Unfortunately. Yeah, it's it's

(01:52:08):
so he's he's going to specialize in the GPS and
the sixth series guns and awesome. Uh yeah, and he's
he's going to set it up where it only takes
like one gun at a time from but smart.

Speaker 3 (01:52:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:52:23):
So anyway, so what.

Speaker 2 (01:52:25):
About the upkeep with single actions? What should people know
about this for Southern guns? What are things they should
look at or pay attention to.

Speaker 4 (01:52:33):
That's a chauncey question if I've ever heard one.

Speaker 5 (01:52:36):
Yeah, I would say, so, I didn't know you were
supposed to do any upkeep on these guns.

Speaker 1 (01:52:41):
Like a luck, you don't do it.

Speaker 5 (01:52:42):
Honestly, let's let's talk about this here. I even had
the basement out of this gun. I just got it today.
So oh that's a that's a steff.

Speaker 3 (01:52:52):
There we go, there we go.

Speaker 5 (01:52:53):
Okay, so now the cylinder's out, and keep your barrel clean.

Speaker 3 (01:53:00):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:53:00):
When when I say clean, I mean I'm not talking
about unburned powder and all that crap and carbon. I'm
talking about if you're shooting cast bullets like a lot
of us single action guys do.

Speaker 3 (01:53:14):
If you're gonna has a a wedding.

Speaker 5 (01:53:17):
Issue, which this one actually has some wedding and that's
not for me because I shot a cylinder of this
good day.

Speaker 3 (01:53:24):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:53:25):
If you're gonna have has a leading issue, probably fire
laugh it like Brian was talking about. But keep your
board clean. And actually this is a good time to
talk about this. So your ratchet's here on the rear
of the cylinder and and uh here on the face
of your you're bearing here. Uh, that's not a place

(01:53:47):
for oil. Did I lose everybody?

Speaker 3 (01:53:50):
No?

Speaker 5 (01:53:54):
Uh, that's not a place for oil. That's a place
for some uh lift I use with young grease. I've
got a damn tub of bearing grease in the gun
shop and that's what I use. Grease those surfaces. Don't
oil them, grease them. Uh, and you'll, you know you will.
You won't develop the end shape near as quick if
you keep those surfaces greased. And also on the on

(01:54:18):
your ratchets here whatever he agrease those. It doesn't take
a lot, just a little bit of grease and it
keeps everything your contacts nice and smooth. And honestly, that's
these are very low maintenance guns. And uh and that's
one reason that I that I like them. And they're
just insanely simple. But yeah, I keep your keep your

(01:54:41):
bore clean as far as wedding goes, and grease you're
the front rear cylinder. And really there's not a lot
to these guns as far as the maintenance goes.

Speaker 4 (01:54:54):
Uh don't I know.

Speaker 3 (01:54:56):
Fannin's cool.

Speaker 5 (01:54:57):
And sometimes I get U, I get to having too
much fun and I do it.

Speaker 3 (01:55:02):
Sorry, Charlie Murphy, I was having.

Speaker 5 (01:55:03):
Too much fun. Uh, you know, try not to trying
not to phantom too much. That's uh, that's kind of
hard on your your bolt and your your boxes, on
your cylinder. But yeah, these are very simple guns. There's
they're very low maintenance. Uh, they're just ain't a hell

(01:55:26):
of a lot to them, you know. And you get
into guns like like this four seventy five line baw. Uh,
these sons of bitches will shoot themselves apart almost. And
when I say shoot themselves apart, I mean they're they're great.

Speaker 2 (01:55:40):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:55:41):
The the Blackhawk is a great vehicle for carbages like this.
But keep your screws tight. If you shoot three cylinders
through this gun. And I'm not a I'm not a
locked tight guy.

Speaker 3 (01:55:51):
I'm a screwdriver guy.

Speaker 5 (01:55:53):
Uh, make sure you screws are type between your grip
frame and your your frame and uh also something to
keep in mind. This has a locking base pin, which
is a really good idea in a common edition. But
like this cult here, I had to put in a
different spring for my base pen latch, a very stiff spring,

(01:56:13):
because you will get you can get, especially when you
love a little hotter, you can get base ten jump.
And what that is, for those who don't know, is
gun goes bang bang. Inertia from recool will cause this
base spin to jump forward. And if you get to
shooting it and don't realize your base pin is creeping
out and out now, then all of a sudden you

(01:56:35):
go to cock the gun and your cylinder's cock eyed
and out of position. And on a good day that
means your cylinder doesn't turn and lock up. On a
bad day, that means your cylinder does turn and does
lock up, but it's out of alignment, and then you've
got your shaven lead and that's a bad day. So

(01:56:55):
if you have base pin jump, get a statter spring
in here, or a the a locking base bind which
has a screw in the bottom and tiens up in
a recess in me that's drilled out the bottom of
your barrel anyway, something that weans about it talking about

(01:57:15):
stuff that probably doesn't apply to ninety percent of revolver shooters.
But those are a couple of things to look out for.
But yeah, that's about it.

Speaker 3 (01:57:25):
Is that the one that Chuck shut the jail block with? Yeah, yeah,
that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:57:30):
The magnificent Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:57:33):
He took an awesome video of it too, by.

Speaker 1 (01:57:34):
The way, magnificent.

Speaker 4 (01:57:36):
Yeah, yeah, he took a great video. Chuck Haggart, he
shoots a brand new clear jail block and it launches
it off the table. Oh man. He pulls it up
and he's like, what do you say? He goes, you
know what makes a wound channel like this?

Speaker 8 (01:57:53):
So I really wish I had my camera going when
he said that, but I had it set up for
like slow mo video, and so I was like, I'm
going to look at the gel block and yeah, Chuck goes,
he like, he sets it there and he looks at Chauncey,
he looks.

Speaker 4 (01:58:06):
At me, and he goes, he goes, you guys know
what makes this.

Speaker 8 (01:58:10):
Kind of wound channel normally? And he pauses the way
Chuck pauses. That just sucks us, you know, sucks us
right in He's like, he's like a one out slog
out of a freaking twelve gage. You know, that's not
the exact words he used, but like, but like he
paused just long enough for us to.

Speaker 1 (01:58:28):
Go, please please tell us And it was jaw Yeah
it was.

Speaker 4 (01:58:33):
It was so beautiful. Yeah that uh, and then Chauncey
recovered the back half of the bullet. That was like,
when't that like a three eighty grain cast or something?

Speaker 5 (01:58:46):
Yeah, three eighty grain cast follow point running? Uh, kidness,
was that twelve fifty or thirteen fifty now, I can't remember.
I think it was around thirteen ish, but yeah, it
sheared the whole front half that bullet off in the
block and the shank went on through and I assumed

(01:59:07):
hit the denim that he had on the back and
fell on the ground. But I wish we would have
saved that so I could one of us could have waited.
But I'm guessing that shank still weighed two hundred and
sixty seventy grains.

Speaker 4 (01:59:18):
The Chuck made the comment to me later, he goes, Dude,
it looked like you fired a shotgun pattern that had
twenty two long rifle that went the link to the
block and then the tail of the bullet came out
the back and he goes, and the tail of the
bullet you probably could have recast into a couple forty
four Special bullets.

Speaker 8 (01:59:41):
Did it separate it like the back krimp maroove or something.
It's great and again, you know, Chuck being Chuck. Chauncey goes, oh,
look there it is. He picks it up, hands it
to Chuck. Chuck goes, he looks at me, and he goes,
sure is a shame. You can just recast that into
a forty four Special.

Speaker 1 (01:59:57):
Sure is a shame.

Speaker 4 (01:59:58):
That's all it's left to the bullet.

Speaker 3 (02:00:00):
It's like.

Speaker 1 (02:00:03):
John that separated. That separated just.

Speaker 5 (02:00:07):
Behind where the hollow point cavity ended, so the front
print groove was still actually intact.

Speaker 4 (02:00:12):
Oh okay, yeah, yeah, it looked like a gnarly wide
cutter or something.

Speaker 5 (02:00:17):
Yeah, but that bullet rent. So I shot a deer
with that same bullet, white tail last fall, and I
was like eleven grains of tire crystal, and so it
was running around eight point fifty. So it's like shooting
a you know, a mile forty four mag rat. And uh,

(02:00:37):
I recovered the bullet from that deer. Actually I hit him.
He was kind of cornering to me and I hit
him low on the point of the shoulder and I
recovered it back let's see, traveled through the brisket heart
lungs and uh, I found it underneath the off side
shoulder and I still have it.

Speaker 3 (02:00:56):
I don't have it here. It's up a relove the shot.

Speaker 5 (02:00:59):
But it expanded did I mean god, it was probably
a half dollar sized and retained most of its weight.

Speaker 3 (02:01:06):
I did weigh it and it was gnarly.

Speaker 5 (02:01:10):
That bullet ran slow does some cool shit too, So
it's kind of the best of both worlds with that bullet.

Speaker 4 (02:01:16):
What he's not saying is if I recovered it, he
actually reached in the wound channel and pulled it out.
You know, this is one does four seventy five line
baw to me, like, I don't know where you go
from there. I mean, I understand I can tell line
baw and five hundred smith and all those, but the

(02:01:40):
load versatility, like my next gun is either going to be.

Speaker 1 (02:01:44):
A line bar or a four eighty ruger. Yeah, because
you can you know, like you said.

Speaker 4 (02:01:50):
That big bullet at eight point fifty all the way
to like fourteen hundred, yes, you know, and he just
so versatile. And I had kind of ignored the line
bond the four eighty Ruger for a long time. And
then of course I meet you and my dad's like,

(02:02:10):
oh yeah, I just sold my Gallagher custom. I'm like, dude, Garry,
I had a bow and Nimrod for a while, you know,
until they went up to three thousand dollars and I
sold it.

Speaker 1 (02:02:23):
You know, like what they're about twelve now?

Speaker 4 (02:02:25):
Yeah, I know, all right.

Speaker 1 (02:02:26):
Well, i'd say by the first one that you get
a good deal on four eighty four seventy five, especially
if you're not trying to max it out. I don't
think it matters.

Speaker 4 (02:02:38):
I had a five and a half inch Super Blackhawk
when Lipsies did the Bisley Super Blackhawks in four eighty
and four fifty four, and in my mind, I was like,
I don't get the four eighty Ruger, so I bought
the Blackhawk. And then like a month later they come

(02:02:58):
out with the four and five eights and I was like,
oh crap. And my dad had a four and five
eighths inch four to seventy earth. Yeah, I had a
four to seventy five Linebott of four and five eighths
and it was glorious, And I was like, man, I
totally missed the boat on the Lipsy's gun. I've heard
there they're gonna start bringing those back. But but four

(02:03:23):
fifty four Casole to me was like, I can almost
get there in a standard Blackhawk at the load range
I wanted to shoot, which is like three hundred grains
at eleven twelve. You can get there in a standard
black Hawk.

Speaker 3 (02:03:40):
Oh yeah, easy.

Speaker 4 (02:03:41):
So the five shot four fifty four it made sense
at the time and now in hindsight of which I had.

Speaker 1 (02:03:47):
Just ordered a four eighty and called it a day.
But anyway, and you can do things with a four eighty.

Speaker 5 (02:03:55):
I mean, you're so close to the four seventy five
line ball, you're kind of splitting hairs.

Speaker 3 (02:04:01):
Before.

Speaker 5 (02:04:02):
I don't I don't even own a four aight, but
I load this to you know, four eighty, and it's
just it's like the forty five cold. You can go
mild or wild, and you can accomplish so much with
the four eighty or four seventy five. They're pretty tough
to beat. As far as a belt gun goes, I

(02:04:24):
don't consider the X frames belt guns. They're cool, but
to me they're not really nervous. Yeah, the only thing
misses the butt stock.

Speaker 3 (02:04:33):
M for sure.

Speaker 5 (02:04:34):
They're rifle cartridges in a big handgun.

Speaker 2 (02:04:40):
So boone just joined us. Boone hopefully, if we can
align the planets, will be on later this week.

Speaker 1 (02:04:47):
But he has a question.

Speaker 11 (02:04:50):
Good evening, gentlemen.

Speaker 1 (02:04:51):
It's good to see some of you.

Speaker 11 (02:04:52):
Brian, good to see you again. So question for you,
much like that said earlier. New to the revolver thing.
I was born in the ninety Revolvers were not even
on my radar until until a Until AFR. I enjoyed AFR,
and I went from one six forty two to five
or six double action revolvers and then recently Votaro, although

(02:05:16):
my favorite is a two inch three fifty seven that
Brian told me not to shoot with three fifty seven,
but I did it anyway. Particularly with revolvers. Something that
like I've always heard is timing. How concerned should I
be about timing and double and single action revolvers? And
like should I start to look for that early and

(02:05:37):
all of minor quality guns rugers and smiths, So should
I be that concerned about it? Or should should it
be something that maybe three, four or five hundred rounds
down the line should I be looking.

Speaker 4 (02:05:46):
At That's a good question. I'll speak to the Smiths
because I don't. I've never shot a single action Ruger
out of time. I'm sure happens, but uh Ruger GP
one hundreds SP one oh one's timing issues. You're not

(02:06:06):
going to see them for thousands upon thousands of rounds.
Smith and Wesson Vintage Smith and Wessons. If you keep
standard pressure AMO in them, standard pressure thirty eight, you're
probably going to see it around four to five thousand rounds,
and if you dry practice with them a lot, you'll
see it sooner. So my advice to everybody on the

(02:06:30):
Smith revolvers. If there are pre lock pre endurance package
guns talking, you know you're sixty four Dash three, sixty
five Dash two, all that pre endurance pre nineteen nineties models.
If you're dry pressing them with your right hand, put
them in your left hand and do the same amount
of work with your left hand because it puts a

(02:06:52):
different It puts a different tension on the hand, so
the hand will touch the window in a little different spot,
and if it wears in evenly they'll stay in time
a little longer. But when you start with the way
to know if you have a timing issue on a
smith is when you're shooting lead standard pressure, you'll start

(02:07:16):
seeing build up on one side of the forcing cone
or the other where it's not quite going out all
the way into battery. As the hammer's falling, it'll favor
one side or the other. So but as long as
you spend the time dry press them two hundred times
right hand two hundred times left hand, it really slows
the timing issues, slows them down from showing up. The

(02:07:42):
other one is when you're dry practicing, use snapcaps or
fired cases, because they index differently with fired cases than
they do the old ones pre angle cut ratchets. On
the extractor, they'll have two little index pins on the
sides of it, so like you lift the extractor start up,

(02:08:04):
you'll see two pins in the cylinder. They'll index differently
with fired cases in those guns than they will with
with them completely empty, because that ratchet will have a
little slack in it and that'll start to wear. So
but go enjoy them when they go out of time,
call Nelson Ford So but maybe yeah, with the new

(02:08:30):
modern Endurance Package guns. It they last a long like
nineteen carry comp stuff like that. They last a long
They stay in time a lot longer.

Speaker 1 (02:08:42):
And you live like an hour and a half from me, So.

Speaker 4 (02:08:44):
Do if your revolver comes out of time, call.

Speaker 11 (02:08:46):
Me speak of that and you come to Watermaker.

Speaker 4 (02:08:51):
Uh when is it two weeks?

Speaker 11 (02:08:54):
Like the ninth, eight ninths something like that.

Speaker 4 (02:08:58):
Yeah, I think I'll be an ad justin dial class
that weekend.

Speaker 8 (02:09:07):
So you mentioned you mentioned the Kerry comps, Brian, I'm
at a little over eleven thousand dry presses on this gun.
Timing is still perfect on it, yeah, and I'd say
seventy five percent of that is right handed.

Speaker 3 (02:09:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:09:22):
Yeah, the Endurance Package. You know, people bitch about the
mem parts and this and that. The Endurance Package smith
stay in time a lot longer than the vintage guns.
But the vintage guns, if you treat them to non
plus PMO and you stick with lead, they'll last that.

(02:09:43):
They last a long time. But you know those guns,
the service life of those guns back in the day
was like five thousand rounds. So I mean that's one
cop shooting fifty rounds a year, ten careers worth a
AMMO right. So, but if you train with them and
you shoot them a lot, you know you're at some

(02:10:06):
point they're going to have a timing issue. But uh,
my favorite ten Dash eight has probably thirty thousand dry
presses on it between left and right hand, and I
know about eight thousand rounds of AMMO. Uh most of
it just standard pressure service AMMO. And it's just now

(02:10:27):
I kind of retired it for because I don't want
to put any It was my granddad's gun. I don't
want to do much of work to it, so uh,
you know, it comes out of the safe once.

Speaker 3 (02:10:37):
A year, you know. So there's that.

Speaker 4 (02:10:42):
But single actions, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:10:45):
That's a Johnson question.

Speaker 11 (02:10:48):
Honestly, Specifically, Ruger single action is what I've got, like
the older.

Speaker 5 (02:10:53):
Ka Okay, I will, I'm not. I can't give you
a sure answer on shoot the amount of time. I
have shot tens of thousands of rounds through new model
v Caros and black Hawks, and I have never once

(02:11:13):
had a timing issue with those guns. Be Where I
see timing issues with those guns are when I buy
them second hand and somebody is monkeyed around with the
actions and taken too much off the top of the
hand or something like that.

Speaker 3 (02:11:28):
Then you'll get timing issues.

Speaker 5 (02:11:30):
But as far as the gun that's in times, that's
built correctly, I've never shot one out of time. I've
shot some men shake into them. I had a stainless
ruger Bisley that I converted to forty five cold before

(02:11:50):
they started building stainless busies in forty five cold, and
I had several thousand rounds of.

Speaker 3 (02:11:59):
That done.

Speaker 5 (02:12:00):
Basically said nothing but three hundreds at around fourteen hundred
feet a second. I've never had any issues with that
down whatsoever. So oh thers are new battle rugers are
pretty much bomb proof.

Speaker 4 (02:12:20):
The smith back on the smiths, he just he hit
something that reminded me, like you were talking about fanning,
how it'll peed the cylinder stop over. Same thing with
staging a trigger. So if you whip through the first
half of the trigger and you rotate that cylinder with
loaded cartridges really fast, and it gets progressively worse as

(02:12:42):
you fire them because one side of the cylinder is lighter.
So it's like having a you know, having a slide
hammer or something that's hitting that that cylinder stop, and
that cylinder stop will pen and as it peens over,
he'll start having timing issues. Luckily, that's the easiest part
to replace. But as long as you roll through a

(02:13:06):
smooth double action and you're not whip the cylinder, stop
press it through, they'll they'll last a long time. And again,
you live an hour and a half from me, so
you're in you're in the zone of like, we can,
we can help you out, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (02:13:26):
So what you're saying is you do the Darryl, not
the Daryl. You do the Wayne Dobbs paddle up. Yeah,
And even where I see it, the worst is in
frames because it's a huge wheel and especially.

Speaker 4 (02:13:45):
If you have like forty five forty four mag where
as soon as you fire one cartridge, the gun gets
like three ounces lighter and then you whip the next
one over. It's like the momentum of that big, big
cylinder trying to stop. And you'll feel it in the gun.
They used to call it cylinder lope. Oh you feel

(02:14:06):
it loping over. No, you're whipping this. You're whipping the
cylinder by pulling halfway through the trigger pull and then
it's stopping against that little thin piece of metal. So
hopefully that answers your questions. But I'm with Jauncey. I've
never the only single actions I really spend any time
with our rugers. I only own one cult. I own

(02:14:29):
a new Front Tier twenty two. It's like a single
six sized flat top. I have bricks of AMMO through
that gun and it's never come out of a time.

Speaker 1 (02:14:41):
Do you want to buy another one? There's a really
shiny one.

Speaker 4 (02:14:45):
Oh no, this is a twenty two.

Speaker 3 (02:14:46):
It's a lot.

Speaker 1 (02:14:47):
Oh no, I know, I know, but there's I know
of one. The owner is trying to get rid of
it if it wasn't Nickel, because Marker, do you know,
I know? How do you want to how wound up
with this gun? It's it's not because it was mechanically
a dog.

Speaker 4 (02:15:04):
The guy never even shot it.

Speaker 1 (02:15:06):
He's like, hey, man, do you know any engravers. I'm like, yeah,
I know, I know of a couple. You know, I
buy guns engraved. The usually don't get him engraved. And
he's like, dude, I know what I want to do.
I found a Stainless Cult single action army.

Speaker 3 (02:15:20):
It was.

Speaker 1 (02:15:23):
Jesus, buddy, Stainless single action army. Please, I will give
you one hundred thousand dollars right now, and I'm like, dude,
that thinks nickel you got to strip the nickel and
grave that.

Speaker 4 (02:15:35):
Dude, No, we're not.

Speaker 1 (02:15:36):
We're not doing that. He's like, oh, do you want it?
I was like, yeah, sure, and that's how I wanted
to do. He wanted to get like Texas famous Texas brand,
you know, do brand engraving all over it. And I'm like,
got bad news for you, buddy. That's uh, that's nickel plating.
It does not take engraving very well.

Speaker 4 (02:15:54):
Well, Bunny, you mentioned that. So Darryl and I both
have like we've got third model Handedjecker Wolf, the Wolf
and Clar right. His is nickel, mine's nickel. They're both
five inch. That was like the most common deal. Well,
I'd always heard about pawn shopp engraved guns, and if

(02:16:14):
you look back in history, a lot of those Texas
Ranger nickeled guns, they were not engraved by some dude
with a hammer and a chisel.

Speaker 1 (02:16:25):
Electric pencil at the local shop.

Speaker 4 (02:16:28):
At the pawn shop that was on the corner of
the Wolf and clar Strip Center and Fort Worth in
the thirties, some dude named like Jose would sit there
with an electric pencil and doodle on your gun and
half the time he punched through the nickel, but that
it gives them a cool look. And then I found
out that was also the same shop where those Ivories

(02:16:51):
with the steerhead and the ruby for the sneers' eyes.
So like you would go buy your gun with Magnas
or service stocks and go like down the strip center
and guy would etch it with a pencil and put
Ivory on it, you know. And of course we spiraled
that into well we need rivera of v Asco from

(02:17:14):
Parazi to do this ingreat.

Speaker 3 (02:17:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:17:18):
Yeah, if I if I went out of my way
to get a nickel gunner to be one of the
Austin pd outdoorsmans.

Speaker 4 (02:17:24):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, even their pre twenty seven's.

Speaker 6 (02:17:30):
Man.

Speaker 5 (02:17:30):
Yeah, guys, I got to run. Thanks for having me on.
I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (02:17:37):
Before you take off, coming on, dude, before you question,
where can people find you.

Speaker 5 (02:17:44):
On Instagram? It's a state line underscore shootest and if
they can't find me there, uh, you block them. I
live on the state line between Oklahoma and Texas, so
you can find me there.

Speaker 3 (02:17:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:18:00):
Nice, but joy.

Speaker 2 (02:18:03):
And yeah, we have another episode with you, hopefully in
the near few maybe even a couple.

Speaker 1 (02:18:07):
But yeah, we do have a reloading one to talk.

Speaker 3 (02:18:10):
Right looking forward to it. Thanks, good to see everybody.

Speaker 1 (02:18:17):
Yeah, and Spencer had a question.

Speaker 4 (02:18:21):
I had it is there a way you guys can
see my camera?

Speaker 3 (02:18:25):
Not sure how this works?

Speaker 1 (02:18:26):
Can't your camera is not on?

Speaker 3 (02:18:30):
Got you?

Speaker 7 (02:18:32):
I was just wondering if you knew anyone who did
good single action revolver work.

Speaker 6 (02:18:37):
Seems like most of the guys the advertised they.

Speaker 1 (02:18:40):
Work on single actions.

Speaker 3 (02:18:41):
It's for speed and the cowboy action stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:18:45):
It's definitely more common. Some guys aren't taking work right now.
Usually I would suggest Jack Huntington, but he he cashed
it in last week and said I'm not taking on
any more work. So he's kinda who is other than
Jack Huntington announced his retirement not taking on new work.

(02:19:06):
Alan harton uh Is is the grand master of single
action work, quality work. He is still working, but he
only takes on stuff he's interested in. In case my cases,
I understand it, So you know, interesting projects to him,
he'll do you Bobby Tyler, when he's taking work that

(02:19:32):
the Tyler Gunnworks guys will do do very good, high
quality work. But he he stays covered up. The good
guys are kind of hard to uh to get in
with unfortunately because there's there's not as many guys doing
it where We've lost a lot of them over the
last few years. And I'm sure there's others. Uh, those

(02:19:53):
are the three I'm familiar with.

Speaker 3 (02:19:56):
I know.

Speaker 1 (02:19:59):
George uh Switzer. Switzer yep has a has a really
good reputation. I don't know that handled some of his guns,
but he's right down the road from from Jack Huntington
and I think was kind of one of his protegees.

Speaker 11 (02:20:16):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:20:16):
And then Powers Metalworks in Louisiana does really really good work.
I know there's more of those. Are the guys I
know that don't just build Cowboy action race guns.

Speaker 4 (02:20:30):
So you guys that were at Revolver Fest. If you
saw Bubba Rawll's number five that was a John Power custom, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:20:39):
This one took John Powers mechanically. It's just wonderful.

Speaker 2 (02:20:46):
Commental Ferman Garza turned.

Speaker 4 (02:20:48):
Me onto a dude named Ryan Ross.

Speaker 1 (02:20:51):
Oh yeah, ye.

Speaker 4 (02:20:53):
And I've talked to him on the phone a couple
of times. Solid dude, and I want to say he
was the protege of John Gallagher and to me, like
Gallagher Bowen clements. Those three were kind of like the

(02:21:15):
first like I guess you dare I say mainstream, but
those were kind of the three big ones when my
dad got into single actions and then Alan Hartin I
have a gun with him right now. I have a
nineteen fifty seven flat top three fifty seven that's getting
bored out to forty one special. And when my dad's

(02:21:40):
done business with Alan for years and Alan and Furman
are real tight. So that's kind of the connection that Houston.
From what I understand, at some point Ronnie Wells is
going to start taking taking on some work ball.

Speaker 1 (02:21:56):
Of cart work. Yeah, yeah, he'll do it soamily full gun.

Speaker 4 (02:22:00):
But he's also from what I understand, he's spooled up
and maybe doing full guns like bringing barrels and everything.
But that's you know, I don't want to put a
timeline on the guy or anything like that, but but
Alan Hartin, if you've got something that piques his interest,

(02:22:25):
he's really fair on his pricing and he is he
is an artist with a tig welder. Yeah yeah, his metal.

Speaker 1 (02:22:35):
Work, I think, you know, Hamilton Bowen said like that
that's the that's the blacksmith for your guns, So there's
still some guys out there.

Speaker 4 (02:22:45):
But yeah, unfortunately it's it's not what it used to be.

Speaker 3 (02:22:49):
The field's narrowing quickly.

Speaker 1 (02:22:51):
Yeah, I've seen Ryan Ross as red Hawks, and I mean,
I think I really like red Hawks and probably the
nicest action work I ever felt, which is saying a lot.
I got Bowen guns and Jack Huntington guns, and his
red Hawk had a it was a forty five cult

(02:23:13):
with a with an Anaconda barrel conversion, and that.

Speaker 3 (02:23:17):
Gun was bad ass.

Speaker 1 (02:23:20):
I don't know him. Uh, he lives close to where
I grew up in North Carolina, but.

Speaker 4 (02:23:26):
I know that that gun.

Speaker 1 (02:23:27):
I don't I don't know about a single action work,
but I'm assuming if he worked for Gallagher, it's it's
pretty phenomenal.

Speaker 4 (02:23:33):
Well, he called me the other day just you know
Big Furman, and Furman connected me with him because he's
doing some caliber conversion stuff. And he goes, hey, do
you have any old Army frames? And I'm like that
is a random question, but also completely appropriate. So I
was like, no, I don't, but you know, here's Ronnie's

(02:23:57):
number and some other guy's numbers, and I think he's
sourced a couple of them, but uh, but yeah, he's
he's he's probably our age, probably sub fifty and seems
to like everything I've seen from him is really good.
And I haven't you know, I haven't heard anybody say, yeah,

(02:24:21):
I sent one to him. It took three years and
it was a turn. No, it's everything seems to be
on par. And one of the fascinating things I found
out about Alan harton which I did not know this,
but so most gunsmiths, you get barrel cylinder dat they

(02:24:42):
pulled the barrel, they set it back a thread, they
recut the forcing cone. Alan doesn't pull the ruger barrels.
He tig welds the forcing ConA. Think of the level
of skill you have to have to tig a forcing
conu or tig the barrel saying with it on the gun.
I'm like that to me, like that didn't even compute right,

(02:25:06):
Like that's turbo nerdery. But still I was like, oh
my god, because you get a single action from Allen
and it'll have the exact same barrel length and it'll
have like a two thousand cylinder gap. And I always
wondered how he pulled that off. I was like, does
he shim him, does he do this? He's like, now
like tig Weld's the barrel.

Speaker 11 (02:25:27):
Shank, but Brian, I kind of feel like, and again,
I come from the generation of plastics, fantastics, where there
wasn't a whole lot of working on a gun, and
now that I'm kind of getting into my thirties and
getting into revolvers, getting into nineteen elevens, it wasn't all
that long ago that you had to be some kind
of gun mechanic to be a professional level shooter with
the nineteen eleven or k fran.

Speaker 4 (02:25:49):
Yeah, well, I mean when I hired on the PDE,
you know, everything was glocks, but if you were a
pistol team guy or an instructor, you had to know
how to kind of tune up a K frame and
how to run one. When I was in the Army,
I was still shooting IDPA on the East Coast, Like

(02:26:13):
nobody shot high cap anything here. It was the ten
matt round Magban was on. So if you ran on
nineteen eleven, you kind of had to know how to
service it, you know, kind of had to know it like, oh, well,
it's something's going on with the extractor, so you'd pull
it and tension it while you're on the freaking range,
and everybody back then kind of knew how to do that.

(02:26:36):
It wasn't like it wasn't some lost art. And then
we had twenty long years of super reliable, accurate polymer
guns and a lot of those gunsmiths just went well
safeways hiring, you know. So you know, there when I

(02:26:57):
got out of the army in two thousand and two,
there were five guys that worked on nineteen eleven's within
twenty miles of my house. All those dudes are dead
or retired because it was kind of on its way
out twenty three four years ago. Well, now there's this
uptick and nineteen eleven's I think you could still find gunsmiths.

(02:27:21):
Single actions are on an uptick of men. And the
amount of gunsmiths there were when they were popular were
few and far between, and now they're even fewer. So
but the good news about that is hopefully that inspires
guys from like your age group and younger to maybe

(02:27:42):
go to Colorado School of Trades. And you know, Bobby
Tyler and I are like the same age, you know,
And if you would have told me twenty five years ago, hey,
go to college, and learn to work on single actions
and build guns. I'd been like, you're crazy, dude, are
taken over. But you know, in the Land of the Blind,

(02:28:04):
the man with one eye as king, right, So so yeah,
it's it's an interesting time in that. Now this stuff
is new and cool to younger people, but a lot
of that institutional knowledge is just really narrowed down. So
you know, if I got the great luxury of you know,

(02:28:29):
Firmngar's as a friend, so I call him.

Speaker 3 (02:28:32):
We talk every other day.

Speaker 4 (02:28:34):
Ronnie Wells is a friend, so we talk every every
two or three days about the most turbo nerdy single
action stuff you can you can envision.

Speaker 1 (02:28:46):
Those are good talks.

Speaker 4 (02:28:48):
But I fill a notebook with stuff because, like, I
don't want to hang a shingle out and work on
guns the rest of my life. I like to shoot
too much. But I also like knowing that, like a
dude like you Boone, you come to me at the range,
you go, my smith just crapped the bed. I don't
know what's wrong with it. I can sit down with

(02:29:09):
you and show you how to repair that. You know
what I'm saying, Like, I try to be a keeper
of some of that knowledge.

Speaker 11 (02:29:16):
And you try to give it generationally because if it
once it's lost, it's lost. And then you go through
a resurgence of guys doing it different like what Daryl
was talking about it earlier, Like and you reference to
eis single actions and double action revolvers kind of went
out in the late eighties early nineties. They're seeing a
resurgence a lot of that generation. The generational knowledge was

(02:29:39):
lost because there's been two and three cop armors between
those guys that they don't know how to work on
or shoot them.

Speaker 4 (02:29:45):
Well, yeah, yeah, and that's what Like Chauncey and I
lived a couple hours apart. I had lunch with him
the other day. You know, we're talking doing the same
stuff we're doing right now. Just the propellers turn it
and I'm like, man, you know, Chauncey's like thirty six,
went to gunsmithing school and that's like his hobby, hobby,

(02:30:08):
kind of part time gig. He does fantastic metal finishing,
fantastic bluing work he can, but he doesn't have a
full machine shop to set up in, you know, pull
barrels and make caliber conversions and build his own cylinders
and heat treat and all that, so, but I mean,

(02:30:29):
all the potential is there. So that's why I'm like, man,
I think we're in a good spot to keep the
knowledge going. But you know, but it's also it can
be a bit of a frustration when a guy gets
buys a brand new single action and it doesn't bend
to his will immediately. Like, but there's tons of resources

(02:30:53):
out there too, so single action for him. If you're
not a member, become a member. There's there's what two
decades of knowledge that I just posted on single action
for him, anything from load data to bullet casting to
mold design to lapping, compound differences, velocity, I mean whatever, rental,

(02:31:16):
hardness of lead. Like, it's all there, you just got
to know where to find it. Furman Garza has some
articles on his website like how to fire or laugh
a gun, and I was reading it when Furman called
me to take an order on a front site and

(02:31:37):
that's how we be. And then I met him at
the holiday in person. I've known him for twenty plus years,
but we were talking on the phone and I was like, yeah,
I'm getting I'm reading your article on fire lapping. Oh hey, uh,
there's a kid over here. On Amazon. That works good.
There's this, there's that. So you know, I just write

(02:31:59):
that stuff down and go apply it.

Speaker 11 (02:32:01):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (02:32:02):
So all the knowledge is out there, it's just you
got to know where to look. And where it looks
is getting smaller and smaller and smaller.

Speaker 1 (02:32:10):
So yeah, single actions doting that right. And so there's
a forum, and then Lee Martin, the guy that owns
the forum has articles too. Yeah, like, man, I have
all those articles archived in case that ever goes away.

Speaker 4 (02:32:27):
Yeah. Well, like you sent me the.

Speaker 1 (02:32:29):
Lineball the lineball gun notes and yeah, the gun notes,
all the taff and all the taff and load test
trying trying to keep it alive.

Speaker 4 (02:32:40):
Yeah, and and none of that stuff. Like nobody's asking
for like a handout to get that stuff. It's like
it's all there. You just got to know where to
find it, which I think is cool too because that
kind of cuts down on the amount of chaff that
they get with, you know, like not everybody can send

(02:33:03):
John can Ipe a message and go, hey, if you
got those taff and gun tests, man, send me the PDF.
Like not everybody can do that, right, Like not everybody
or you know or can, but I will tell you
any one of you that wants to order a front
site from Fermo Garza can pick up the phone and
do it, and he'll walk you through it. He will
talk to you as long as you want to talk

(02:33:25):
about it. Yep, and he will. If you've got a
dial Caliper, he will like, hey, go get your gun
right now, Like, measure it from here to here, tell
me what that number is while he's writing it down
and figuring out what hype front sight you need and what.

Speaker 3 (02:33:46):
You know.

Speaker 4 (02:33:46):
I mean that that still exists. You can still do that,
you know, Ronnie can. Ronnie's a little bit different. You're
not just gonna be able to call and talk to
Ronnie Wells, but because the guy's running a massive machine shop,
a massive machine shop. But but yeah, for those of

(02:34:08):
you that want the knowledge, it's out there. You just
I would say the best bet go sign up for
a membership on Single Action, the single action for them,
and read the art, read the postings on load testing
and guns, and just dive into it because there's literally

(02:34:28):
twenty plus years of of people's harder knowledge that they
just share. There's great books too, the good News Before
the Internet, when all these are super.

Speaker 1 (02:34:41):
Popular people wrote books. The Hamilton Bowen Book, I mean
it's expensive. I know, as you was talking about doing
another reprint, but I mean two hundred and seventy five
bucks for that book is you know a barg.

Speaker 4 (02:35:00):
The John's Haffing books on the forty four and forty.

Speaker 10 (02:35:02):
Five, the Coonhousen Shop manuals are phenomenal to understand the
mechanics of them.

Speaker 1 (02:35:10):
If you're looking at colts specifically, the Copec books are great.

Speaker 4 (02:35:15):
But again, I mean you're he died, They're not selling
anymore of them. They've been in the front for a while.

Speaker 1 (02:35:20):
You're probably looking at one thousand bucks for his two books.

Speaker 4 (02:35:24):
But I mean, find somebody that's.

Speaker 1 (02:35:25):
Got a little snap a picture of a page like
I will do that for you.

Speaker 10 (02:35:30):
So yeah, a lot of this stuff's written down. I
would definitely recommend the Bowen Custom Revolver book and.

Speaker 1 (02:35:38):
The Konhausen manuals. Those you can order on Amazon. The
Kuonhouse and manuals, and the Bowen book you can get
on Kendle. I hate looking at stuff on a tablet,
but if you got an iPad and you don't want
to spend two.

Speaker 4 (02:35:49):
Hundred and seventy five to three hundred and fifty bucks.

Speaker 1 (02:35:52):
You can download the Boone book on Kendle for I
don't know. It might be ten or twelve bucks, fifteen,
I don't know.

Speaker 11 (02:36:00):
I was looking at the kuneh Housing books because somebody
in a fr recommended him.

Speaker 1 (02:36:04):
Yeah, because I ordered.

Speaker 3 (02:36:05):
I had ordered Louis R.

Speaker 11 (02:36:06):
Buck book the other day, and I was looking at
those on eBay as well.

Speaker 3 (02:36:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:36:10):
Man, I mean, everybody that's going to open one of
these up should should have these.

Speaker 4 (02:36:15):
So the other thing with these is these are like
technical data manuals, print drawings and all that, so they
can be hard to follow if you don't. Yeah, you
kind of got to know when to eat the meat
and spit out the bones. There is a really good book.

(02:36:38):
I have a couple of copies of a matter of fact,
I'll pull it this book. You can find this book
on ABC Books. It's called Pistol Smithing by George Nanty
George Nanni Junior. Uh Nanny was like he almost had

(02:36:59):
the Harris Theodore thing where he was like the international
man of mystery. He was a little different. He was different.
But it is like five hundred and some pages and
it's everything from accurizing semi auto's to checking timing on revolvers,
to like peening ratchets and hands and stuff like that.

(02:37:22):
So some of this you look at and this is
written in a really like I don't want to say
Layman's terms, but it's very straightforward and I have I
have like two volumes of this book because there's there
were some tech changes in there.

Speaker 11 (02:37:38):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (02:37:38):
He tells you like how to make tools and all
kinds of fixtures and all kinds of stuff. So Pistol
Smithing by Nanny is one of It's one of my
favorites because if I get an old revolver that I
can't figure out what's going on with it, I'll dive
into that book and eventually it will pop out. Like

(02:38:00):
but I went to nineteen eleven gunsmithing school cylinder slide
ten days of my life and learning how to drive
a file straight, learning how to use a number two
pillar file, a mill smooth, a mill second cut, how
all these different things work together. And once I learned

(02:38:20):
that base, that platform of how to move metal.

Speaker 3 (02:38:23):
And make it.

Speaker 4 (02:38:25):
Do what you want it to do, then it just
becomes pretty work. So you can get the mechanics down
and then you look at like Bowen's work or Jason
Burton's work or something like that, and it's like, oh,
they got the mechanical side really well, but they do
the pretty work really really well. And that's what really dives.

(02:38:50):
That's what really differentiates like a gun plumber from a gunsmith,
like somebody that can really match up lines and uh,
you know, recut things and weld and silver solder and
all that. I'm pretty bush league at most of that stuff,
but smith revolvers, I'm good at single actions. I'm stainless

(02:39:16):
single actions I'm good at. Do I do a bunch
of like silver soldering and custom work. No, I just
can improve the actions. I can improve the accuracy, I
can put on a firm in front site all those things.
Guys like the dudes at Magnaport do good work, you know.
But I can be blessed if I have some ability,

(02:39:39):
Like when it comes to metal finishing. I just called Chauncey.
I'm like, hey, dude, I need a gun blued like
he's he is artist level with bluing. I don't have
a bloing tank or any of that. So that's that's
kind of where the road divides. There's lots of good
like General Gunsmith's. But if you can get a base
of knowledge, and I don't think there's a better, more

(02:40:03):
cost effective option than going to cylinder and slide. I mean,
I've heard people go, oh, well, I went to this
class or that class. If you go to Bill Lockerg's class,
you're going to spend about six K, but you're going
to walk away with her with a lifetime of knowledge
on how to crown a barrel, how to fit a barrel,
how to you know, look what strike marks are on metal?

(02:40:25):
Like you just get an immersion in it and a gun, right,
you leave with a gun too, and you yeah, and
you build your own gun like mine is still sitting
on the bench in the white from nineteen years ago.
But the bottom line because they got busy doing other stuff.
But I can always go back to that. And one

(02:40:48):
of the things Bill did and I'll tell this little
short story and I'll shut up for a bit. But
he sends you a warning order. He was an old
like army first sergeant and he's like, here's your warning
order for the class. Want to do well? Take an
odd shaped piece of steel and a vice, and he
tells you how to set up your vice, and he
goes and a mill Bastard file. You can find one

(02:41:10):
at every hardware store in America, six inch mill Bastard
file and file that thing into a one inch by
one inch queue and use your dial calipers as your guide.
So you're constantly file this surface and then draw and
then you learn to draw file to polish things out.
And I did it. It took me like a week
and a half and my arms were like you know

(02:41:33):
and yeah, And it was so cool because like, I'm
like two weeks from going to cylindarm slide and I'm like,
I have to get this project done or I'm going
to fail. Like you're going to pay six grand, you're
going to fail, right, whatever. So I drew dunk it
in birchwood casey cold blue to bluw it so that
it won't rust right, and then soak it in oil.

(02:41:55):
And I get there and he goes, hey, how many
of you guys did your filing project? And I pulled
mine out and I'm like, look, I got a perfect
one inch by one inch cube and he goes, let
me see that. He's looking at it and he's like,
oh my god, hey, I've been teaching this class twenty years.
You're the first guy that's ever done it. You're going
to build a great gun. And I'm like, I felt
like somebody had just like dumped water on me. I'm like,

(02:42:17):
are you kidding me? Like nobody else has done this,
because well if they did, they didn't bring it to
show off. So let's get started. But the lesson there
was like I put in the time to learn to
run the file and run the calibers just by the
sheer peer pressure of thinking that I was going to
get like lambasted out of the class for not doing

(02:42:39):
the file project.

Speaker 10 (02:42:40):
You know.

Speaker 4 (02:42:41):
So that and then I found out he pulled that
out of some like Machinist one oh one book, like hey,
start people on a file. Yeah, Machinist tam book. It's
like in the first chapter right, it's literally like the
opening salvo, you know. But from doing that, like fitting
that Ronnie Wells grip frame, like mentally, I was right

(02:43:04):
back there and okay, file straight, file truth, don't put
too much pressure this way or this way, keep everything
running the same direction.

Speaker 3 (02:43:11):
And it came out great.

Speaker 4 (02:43:13):
But I learned that building nineteen eleven and then you know,
so a single action that everything's bolted together. It's just
blending metal like that. It wasn't that big of a deal.
So that would be if you had the means to
do that. That's a fantastic course to go to. I

(02:43:33):
can't recommend that one enough. And Bill is seventy five
years old, like now is the time, not.

Speaker 3 (02:43:40):
Six months now?

Speaker 2 (02:43:42):
So anyway, Well, I got two more questions for you guys,
but Spencer Boone thinks Boone, you'll be back later.

Speaker 11 (02:43:52):
Yep, thank you, Matt, Thank everybody on the board. I
appreciate you guys. Thanks for the knowledge of all tonight. Yeah, man,
thank you for such.

Speaker 4 (02:44:02):
So let's see here the cylinder's slide and rolling gunsmenning school.

Speaker 2 (02:44:06):
My question for Brian with the y what's with flat tops?

Speaker 3 (02:44:12):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (02:44:13):
So flattops are the original black Hawk frame?

Speaker 2 (02:44:18):
Okay, and so why why are they so important to you?
Because I hear you talking about flaptop flaptop flat top.

Speaker 4 (02:44:25):
Yeah, so flat tops are the frame dimension and cylinder
dimensions are really similar to the old single action Army.
It's got a smaller cylinder. The original Ruger Blackhawk started
nineteen fifty seven and it had a big, wide flat
top like a cult new frontier target that was kind

(02:44:48):
of the aesthetic. And then in nineteen sixty two they
became the Blackhawk and they made have been forty four mag,
forty five COLT three fifty, and they made the frame big,
and it had these protective ears that came up around
the sides of the site. And that's all they built

(02:45:09):
for decades. That in Single six and then Lipsey's came
along and said or No. Two thousand and five they
rebooted the fiftieth anniversary Blackhawk and they made the small
frame with the flat top. Again there you go right there.
So for you know a number of years, the only

(02:45:31):
the three fifty sevens, forty one mags, forty five cols,
forty four mags. They were all made on the same
frame size and even to the point the Ruger Buckeye.
I got a video coming, I was shooting a Ruger
Buckeye today it's on a forty four mag sized frame,
huge frame. And then when they scaled it back to
that mid what we call now the mid frame between

(02:45:53):
a Single six and a Blackhawk or Super Blackhawk, right,
that did frame they now do in forty one, forty
five COLT, forty four special, forty one Magnum. That's my
my personal favorite is the mid frame forty one Magnum.
They do it and there's just something sleek and sexy

(02:46:14):
about it. I don't know, cool. I don't know why
that is.

Speaker 3 (02:46:18):
I've got a couple of flattops, but.

Speaker 4 (02:46:21):
My favorite is by far the forty one flat top.
It just yeah, and for decades, like before there was
a Jason Klosner, Yeah, thanks Jason Klosner. Always these were
these were all custom modifications on existing guns. So you know,

(02:46:43):
the guys who would take an old like nineteen fifties,
nineteen sixties three fifty seven mag, punch them out to
forty one mag, forty one Special, forty five Colt, forty
four Special. They weren't the most mechanically strong guns. But
you know, but now we have like these modern incarnations
that are fabulous. So so that's that's that's why I

(02:47:07):
love the flattops. There's just there's something sexy about them too.

Speaker 3 (02:47:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:47:11):
So I have a flat top question for you, Brian
when you come back.

Speaker 3 (02:47:15):
Yeah, if it comes.

Speaker 4 (02:47:16):
Back, I'm just like I sanded in these elk stags
on this flat top, Bisley like even glossed them up.
You can, and that's the flat top forty one busily
So it's shorter, shorter cylinder window, a little little squattier,
and I don't know, there's just something to them. There's

(02:47:37):
like it's like the first time you roll a Model
ten action, where it's just like that gun is perfect
in the way, in the format, it's in it just.

Speaker 3 (02:47:47):
So you.

Speaker 1 (02:47:49):
Yep, same the flat top forty four, Yes, took the
horrible fashion grips off and put some Yeah, man, what
a gun?

Speaker 4 (02:47:59):
Did you ever hear the story behind that?

Speaker 1 (02:48:02):
I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (02:48:03):
So to set your mind to two thousand and nine,
you cannot build ars fast enough. No company could crank
out ars fast enough. And Jason's like, he goes, I
approached the bosses with an idea, and they're like, okay,
what color of ar are we going to have this money?

Speaker 3 (02:48:23):
You know?

Speaker 4 (02:48:24):
He goes, now, I want to do a flat top
forty one special Ruger meant for you, he said. Like
the whole room goes quiet, like, are you kidding? We
can't We cannot call the manufacturers and have them build
us ars fast enough to stock anybody. And here you
are with a Ruger single action idea. What is that

(02:48:48):
and he goes like twenty five thousand units later. I
guess I was onto something, you know, but that's been
one of their most popular guns of all time, and
that like you feel a little bit of like Elmer
and Skeeter when you shoot those guns.

Speaker 1 (02:49:05):
That's what this one goes in Skeeter loads. The only
thing I did too, it's put I don't know, hog
grips on it, which are pretty nice for like thirty
bucks on midway, and put a bow in rear sight
on it just because he happened at Flat Top Sites
and stock one time. Yeah, I got one of those
man like mechanically the gun guns built. How I wish

(02:49:30):
they'd build them all. It's the nice way, but that
you know. And dude, it's accurate. Just got no cylinder gap,
no end shake, it's barrel, crown looks great, barrel does
not lead.

Speaker 4 (02:49:45):
I mean, I mean, I'm just shot the crap out
of this thing.

Speaker 1 (02:49:48):
And uh yeah, crowd, crowd, favorite closest thing we'll ever
get to a production number five in our day and age.

Speaker 3 (02:49:55):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 4 (02:49:59):
People don't like I didn't get the forty four special
thing for a long time and the flat top forty
one my dad picked up a flat top forty one
and I was like, oh, I get it now, like
I completely understand what the buzz is about. Yeah, and
you know, I don't know man like that gun mentally

(02:50:21):
takes you to a different era, Like you feel like
you're connected to some piece of history when you shoot those.
It's I shot one today, buddy, mine had one today
and I was like, oh, Man.

Speaker 1 (02:50:34):
Forty four special out of a five and a half
inch barrel with Skeeter loads is no slouch either. No,
never have I gone I wish this was a forty
four bag, not one.

Speaker 4 (02:50:44):
No, are you loading the seven or the seven and
a half unique load?

Speaker 3 (02:50:48):
Yep?

Speaker 4 (02:50:49):
I got, uh, thirty two pounds a unique left up there.

Speaker 3 (02:50:57):
I'll do it.

Speaker 6 (02:50:58):
So that's funny.

Speaker 4 (02:51:00):
Favorite of forty four mag loads now, Yeah, because you
just put it in a longer case.

Speaker 1 (02:51:04):
It was put in a long case, yep. Skeeter loads
and a forty four mag so I don't have to
worry about cleaning throats and chambers.

Speaker 3 (02:51:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:51:12):
And uh, matter of fact, I just ordered five hundred
bullets yes, last night, because I was like, oh, I'm
running low and Keith bullets. That's no, that's not good.

Speaker 1 (02:51:24):
So, yeah, that's not good.

Speaker 4 (02:51:26):
I'll shoot those.

Speaker 1 (02:51:27):
The first first custom I got was this old model
three P fifty seven conversion that Bowen did the busy
hammer yep. Oh oh it's a full full house too.
Rob Rowan did the grips. I want to say, the
guy that had it built spent thirty five hundred bucks
in metalwork on it. Like, you can't shoot that thing, dude.

(02:51:50):
I carry that thing around in the woods.

Speaker 4 (02:51:51):
I don't care.

Speaker 3 (02:51:52):
So that was the Wells round. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:51:59):
I just like, I literally just finished all the fitment
and everything today, and this will get seven and a
half grains of unique in a two forty Keith. That's
that's where this one's happy place is going to be.
Uh And I think I gotta throw a shout to
Bobby Tyler. He went to his warehouse of whatever. I

(02:52:22):
was like, dude, I need a fluted forty four mag
Vaccaro cylinder or stainless cylinder. He goes, yeah, I got one,
like two days later. It just showed up. I was like, so,
I got I gotta get Bobby something. Yeah, I gotta go.

Speaker 1 (02:52:41):
There's a there's a shiny colt floating around. I'll do something.
I'll do market infernal, god forsaken cold so along, I
sutt together, like.

Speaker 4 (02:52:57):
That's not a good thing. Here's a fifty of the
anniversary flat top. Yeah, oh, you get the four and five,
get the for and five eighths those ways.

Speaker 1 (02:53:09):
This this is my happy place as far as like
a single action gun, like about this size.

Speaker 4 (02:53:14):
It's perfect for me.

Speaker 1 (02:53:14):
It's where it's where I like.

Speaker 4 (02:53:16):
Yeah, I like the five and a half for like
forty four special, forty one Magnum, But everything else, I
like a for and five eights. I just think five
colts forty five colt is just just cool.

Speaker 1 (02:53:32):
Seventy five.

Speaker 8 (02:53:33):
So so my flat top question is I'm considering because
because part of my you know, as the kids like
to say, part of my gun autism is I like
having I like having a bunch of stuff that all
works with the same support gear. Yeah, and I'm considering
very strongly either because of how much I love this gun,

(02:53:56):
but also because of how much I love this gun
getting a version of one of those to dive into
forty four with, because I've been aside from twenty twos,
I'm a three five five, three five seven caliber, you know, guy,
with everything I shoot and.

Speaker 1 (02:54:14):
The way, Which way would you guys say.

Speaker 4 (02:54:19):
If you were going to go with a mid frame rigger?

Speaker 3 (02:54:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (02:54:23):
So either either a two point seventy five Smiths sixty nine,
which is like, you know, it's essentially this gun that's
a five shot forty four and it would never have
a mag through it, it'd be only specials. Yeah, or
same as this, Whether blue door stainless four and five
eighths forty four special, five shot flat top.

Speaker 4 (02:54:42):
Busily flat top forty four special.

Speaker 1 (02:54:45):
Yeah, that would be it for me.

Speaker 3 (02:54:47):
Look, don't get me wrong.

Speaker 4 (02:54:49):
The Smith Model sixty nine is a fantastic five shot
forty four special. Notice I said forty four special.

Speaker 1 (02:54:57):
Oh yeah, totally, totally.

Speaker 4 (02:55:00):
They're cool. But they also have that hole in the
side where the soul leaks out, and.

Speaker 1 (02:55:07):
They got plugs for that, they do.

Speaker 4 (02:55:09):
But still, yeah, I know, I know.

Speaker 3 (02:55:12):
Lake.

Speaker 4 (02:55:13):
Here's one John, What would you rather show up to
shoot us with a sixty nine Smith or a flat
top forty four?

Speaker 3 (02:55:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:55:23):
Flat top forty four Freedom Arms ninety seven is the
right answer to that question. But you know you're gonna
wait two years for it. It's gonna be four grand, right,
you know it's sad.

Speaker 4 (02:55:36):
Darryl has one, and I just about have him talked
out of it. He's got an octagon barrel Freedom ninety
seven with all those front sight blades and the whole
Like somebody probably spent six seven K on this gun. Yeah,
And I'm like, hey, Daryl, you're ever gonna shoot that?
And he's like no, And I go, well, I got

(02:55:57):
all the support year for it. Maybe we need to
make a deal. And uh, but I don't know. We
haven't we haven't talked about it. He posted a bit
we were talking about it and he goes, I'm gonna
break your heart and he posted it as our Instagram
story of the day and I was like, you dick
him about that thing? Oh bluddy, Oh, it'll never be

(02:56:21):
outside of the blue Freedom box. I mean, it's just
it's a total like look. But at the same time,
I'm like, maybe like I would carry, and like I would.

Speaker 1 (02:56:32):
Carry all the time I carry them all. We said.
Everybody's like you can't carry that boat when God, I'm like,
watch me, dude.

Speaker 4 (02:56:38):
I will ride my dirt bike with that thing on.

Speaker 3 (02:56:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (02:56:42):
You know what It's like, it's like the number five
that uh bubba yeah, yeah, yeah, that that bubbahead. I like,
I'm talking to I'm talking to why And he walks
up and he goes, hey, guys and just clunk slaps
it down on the table and he's like, here, shoot it.

Speaker 3 (02:56:58):
I was like what.

Speaker 1 (02:57:00):
He goes, no, seriously, shoot it.

Speaker 8 (02:57:01):
I want you to shoot it, and like it's got
a turnline on it and everything, and you know, it's
this gorgeous museum piece of a gun.

Speaker 1 (02:57:08):
And he's like, please shoot it and has a shoot
It's amazing. Guns need to be shot, they need to
be used. Yeah, he bought one the other day. Guys like, oh,
it's never been turned. I'm like, cool, let me check
it out. You know, here's your money this parking lot.

Speaker 4 (02:57:26):
See you about it. So Bubba and I have been
friends for He worked for an a point back in
the day. He worked for FN back in Shadows Systems.
Like he's made the gamut of gun companies and he
works out there in South Carolina now, and we were talking.
He goes, hey, man, I got like a month two

(02:57:47):
months before Revolver Fest. He's like, dude, I'm gonna shoot
my my my number five.

Speaker 3 (02:57:53):
You get a number five?

Speaker 4 (02:57:54):
He goes, oh, yeah, I just got it back and
he sends me a picture and it was all I
could do to not run to the bath room at
that moment, Like I was like, oh, so on your
Instagram it's oh yeah, it's a pretty gun. The funniest
part I get on the radio. My dad was working
the booth for us, and I go, Hey, why is Gary?

(02:58:15):
I need you to come to Bay A. He's like
everything okay, Like is there an emergency. I'm like, it's
not an emergency, but you need to come over here.
And then Justin Diele walks in. David's there like and
Bubba opens this box of AMMO and it had the
thunder Ranch forty four special head stand on it, like

(02:58:38):
the thunder Ranch like Black Hills or somebody loaded it
and all of us like it was like Marcellus Wallace's
briefcase guy, you know. And my dad does, Matt, you're
gonna cost me a bunch of money, and he's like, no,
you're gonna go shoot it. So he shoots it. I

(02:58:59):
shoot it, shoots it, and then Justin Dile goes, that's
really interer, well, that's beautiful and shoots like a two
inch group at twenty five yards on a headbox of it.
He's like, well it's accurate, you know, Like it was
just one of those moments where dudes are walking up
looking at that gun like I don't want to touch that,

(02:59:21):
and he's like, no, man, here five rounds, go get
after it.

Speaker 1 (02:59:25):
Yeah, yeah, and it's great.

Speaker 8 (02:59:27):
Someone pulled out a cell phone and I'm like, I'm like, guys,
guys have camera.

Speaker 4 (02:59:32):
Have to like step away?

Speaker 3 (02:59:33):
Yeah yeah, yeah, like you you.

Speaker 1 (02:59:35):
And Bobba talking.

Speaker 2 (02:59:36):
I was like, here you go, here's the picture, and
they were like, what happened? What is this black matgic?

Speaker 1 (02:59:40):
It's pretty funny that, but.

Speaker 4 (02:59:45):
You know, my dad I had that gun that John
saw the twenty nine to two I had done for
my dad to shoot. Yeah, and he's like I don't
think I can. And I'm like, you better put some
freaking holster wear on that gun, like and I'm like,
I hand him five. I had some six and a

(03:00:06):
half grain two forty six and a half grains unique
like light loaded forty four specials and I'm like, here,
are you sure. I'm like, yes, go freaking shoot the
gun because I don't want to get it from you know,
your estate someday and be like oh, my good. Shoot
it is too I'm like, put some freaking wear on it,

(03:00:26):
like go carry it and go shoot a deer with it,
make some memories with it, right, And it cracks me up,
Like he'll leave the house, There'll be guns laying everywhere.
That gun goes in the safe, he comes home, comes out,
goes on the display box, he leaves, puts it in
the safe, goes out. So but I was like, it

(03:00:47):
was so cool to be like, here, you have to
shoot that gun man, it's too not I'm like, no,
you have, Like that's what it's for, Like yeah, yeah,
oh yeah, there's Bubb's number.

Speaker 1 (03:00:58):
Yeah, there it is. So I fell off a snowmobile
with this one and then tumbled down a.

Speaker 3 (03:01:04):
Hill with it.

Speaker 4 (03:01:05):
Oh is that a nimrod?

Speaker 1 (03:01:07):
So do you want to want a cool history lesson?

Speaker 3 (03:01:11):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (03:01:12):
So Lanyard loop.

Speaker 3 (03:01:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:01:15):
So John Linball and Hornety when when Hornety started making
line by ammunition, got got sued by Buffalo bar back
in the day. Everybody's ever heard the story. So there
was a lawsuit. And if you if you knew John,
you know he lived and worked in a cabin in
Cody Wyelminger and Powell right outside and so through a

(03:01:36):
friend of a friend, he needed an attorney and John
was not, you know, he was gonna spend the money
on an attorney. A friend of a friend found Scott Shearheart,
who who you met Brian at the at the holiday
the last couple of years, and he was a a
Houston cop turned turned lawyer at his first firm. And

(03:01:57):
he was like, yeah, yeah, I'll help you out with that.
And so this was what John paid his attorney that
navigated the lawsuit with. He built him this gun and
Scott's like, you're gonna use it, aren't you. It's got
his name in the barrel. And I was like, absolutely,

(03:02:19):
I'm going to use it. He's like good, He's like
it's a barbecue gun. But it's not a barbecue gun, dude.
I drag this thing all over fully engraved, Scott one
at John's grip frames, everything, everything you could do to
one the man, you know.

Speaker 4 (03:02:37):
Bobby's like, there's nothing you can do to it.

Speaker 1 (03:02:39):
I can't fix.

Speaker 4 (03:02:39):
I'm like, all right, I challenge accepted.

Speaker 1 (03:02:42):
So it's falling through the dirt in Texas. I've got
it on riding around in the mountains. I got it
on so far so good.

Speaker 4 (03:02:53):
And it's something that you know, I don't know when
I'm sure the pretty gun thing has been a while,
but you know, you go and look at these iconic
pieces from Skeeter Skelton, Elmer Keith, Well you know, in
the modern era Ken Hackethorn, they're all being shot and used. Yeah,

(03:03:17):
like none of them.

Speaker 3 (03:03:18):
Yeah, I get it, like some of them are.

Speaker 4 (03:03:20):
Being babied a bit now because they're they're elderly guns.
But you know, you look at like the Elmer Keith
collection when some of that went through Rock Island, there
wasn't one of those guns that didn't look like it
had been in a holster for the better part of
two decades.

Speaker 1 (03:03:40):
Every one of those guns needed to go to a
gunsmith to be safe to shoot.

Speaker 3 (03:03:46):
Oh wow.

Speaker 4 (03:03:47):
But uh but you know, like I even I looked
at uh, you know, like some of Taffan's guns have
come have started to kind.

Speaker 1 (03:03:58):
Of trickle out. Most of it's pretty pedestrian. Yeah, it's
just used.

Speaker 4 (03:04:05):
I'm like, yeah, that people built him some nice guns
and he went out and shot the living.

Speaker 1 (03:04:12):
Dog crap out of him.

Speaker 3 (03:04:14):
Yeah. Well yeah, well I'm just.

Speaker 1 (03:04:15):
Like I know a guy that got one of the
Elmer Keith triple locks out of one of the auctions,
and that thing was so stretched and out of time.
Oh man, that gun. If it wasn't his and any
of us saw it, we'd be like, no, I'll pass.
Even if it's a triple locker.

Speaker 4 (03:04:32):
Yeah right, yeah, you'd be like, oh, frames a little
wonky here, because you know that that triple lock with
a non heat treated cylinder. Elmer went, let's see how
how good our American steel is, you know. Yeah, like,
but but there again, it's like most of those old

(03:04:55):
gun like those that era of gun writers. If you
saw Skeeter seven and a half inch forty four mag Blackhawk,
you would be like, who the heck took the sandpaper
to the grip frame? Yeah, you know, or like what
did you drop that out of a truck? Like did

(03:05:15):
you did that fall out of your holster?

Speaker 3 (03:05:19):
Hey?

Speaker 4 (03:05:20):
You know, we look at him as these priceless items,
and those guys just looked at it as Tuesday. So
I do have a nimrod.

Speaker 1 (03:05:31):
Yeah, now seventy five those Jeff Cooper's like I had
heard you had Coopers and so that's there's a picture
of him. I'm trying to get it I've seen it
and he's sitting on his three wheeler with it in
a chest holster and yep, same thing. Man, I shoot
the crap out of this thing. Uh, you can't shoot that.

(03:05:54):
I'm like, why he did? He rode around shooting stumps
on his three wheeler with it.

Speaker 4 (03:05:58):
I'm relatively certain that was the gun he had on
when he crashed the three wheeler.

Speaker 1 (03:06:05):
Indeed it was, And there are some signs of that
on the back. Yeah, a little gouger too, and it's
got a little bit of a rash on character character.

Speaker 3 (03:06:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:06:17):
Well, you know, one of the greatest things. And this
is not me tooting the revolver fest horn too loud,
But Darren I put that event together and it was
a lot of work. I mean, it's a lot of work.
And I'm walking around and there are twenty somethings. There's
you know, Eli is shooting a six and a half

(03:06:40):
inch ridgemack and then I looked like, two rows down,
there's a dude with a forty four special target. Wasn't
the outdoorsman? Why am I losing my The model basically
a pre nineteen fifty a forty four Special target ejector

(03:07:01):
six and a half inch forty four special from the
nineteen forties. Yeah, and I'm like, how old are you, dude,
I'm thirty nice, like all right cool, And then you know,
Chauncey shows up and I Chauncey's one of those dudes
that like, there is nothing can trite about that that

(03:07:24):
whole thing is not a costume, like that is literally
when I meet him in Western Oklahoma, he's driving a
truck with a feed unit attached to it. Yeah, and
when he gets out, you know, like the dust fall
and he's wearing some like you know, pre like nineteen seventeen.

(03:07:47):
Oh yeah, I cut this one down. It was a
dog and I refinished it like dang, oh, but I
did put some Zane Thompson stocks on it, you know.
And it's just encouraging to see dudes that are like
sub forty that are so heavily invested in some of
this cool stuff and they're not yeah they're not they're

(03:08:09):
not abusing it, but they're also not baitying it.

Speaker 1 (03:08:13):
Like right that that was just it's nice to see somebody,
you know, under forty not financing nods on Kradova and
well they.

Speaker 4 (03:08:23):
Yeah, wearing Hawaiian shirts with crypants right well, and you know,
but we had the whole gamut there. But the thing
that was encouraging was seeing dudes like Eli and Chauncey
and and that whole crew of dudes that are like,

(03:08:43):
you know, mid thirties to mid twenties to mid thirties
and they're carrying Doc Leather rigs and they're carrying and
I'm like, dude, that was heartwarming. Like thirty percent turnout
was under forty, that's all awesome. Yeah, and they're like, oh, hey,
I went and took a single action classroom guys now

(03:09:06):
with my dad's single six from nineteen sixty six.

Speaker 1 (03:09:10):
You know, like, well, dude, Leather's a whole nother rabbit
hole that like, I probably.

Speaker 4 (03:09:14):
Don't have time to go down tonight, but.

Speaker 2 (03:09:18):
Oh we will, we will take these Is it wolf
Fears that Gary found?

Speaker 1 (03:09:24):
Yeah, that guy's he's he's right up in laram me.
His stuff is super popular around here. I shoot Cowboy Action.
A lot of guys use his stuff. Yeah, but I
mean there's Doc Borani, you know, that's still like actively
making holsters himself. Milt Sparks has still turning out beautiful stuff.
But you know, he's he's long gone.

Speaker 4 (03:09:44):
Yeah, right right there, which I'm I'm looking at your
garage apparatus, here your reloading room, and I'm like, I
wish I could be that organized, but.

Speaker 1 (03:09:56):
I have all.

Speaker 4 (03:10:00):
Is simply rugged and doc Baranti and it's just piled
on there.

Speaker 3 (03:10:04):
Well I do.

Speaker 1 (03:10:05):
I've got a tote for just their holsters.

Speaker 3 (03:10:10):
I got to show you what I just got.

Speaker 1 (03:10:14):
Yeah, that's the other fun part about revolvers, Like nobody
gets a show about holsters for o'clock, but if you do,
you just find.

Speaker 4 (03:10:21):
A better use of your time. I just got the fust.

Speaker 1 (03:10:26):
I just got one of those too, And then I
had one made for that scope Redhawk and five hundred
long ball that I got.

Speaker 4 (03:10:33):
Yeah, so that's his I can't even I don't even
know what he calls it.

Speaker 1 (03:10:36):
That's the Northwest Hunter. Northeast one is.

Speaker 4 (03:10:39):
Like the lightweight version. Yep, there's something Companion or the
Northwest Companion, Yeah, because the Hunter has the big scope. Yeah,
but I got it for that's six and a half
inch forty four mag Blackhawk pre super black cock from

(03:11:01):
my I think this one's from sixty three. My dad
gave that to you. Like I just went over to
his house one day and he goes, hey, do you
have a forty four Blackhawk? And I got I got
like a dozen of them. He's like, no, a real one.
I'm like, huh. He goes, you know it clicks like
four times? No, he is here. I said, oh, man,
what do you want for it? He goes, I got

(03:11:21):
four more? Just take that one. It's like get it.

Speaker 3 (03:11:26):
One day.

Speaker 4 (03:11:26):
Anyway, he said, you're finally getting into single actions again,
like here.

Speaker 1 (03:11:32):
You know, yeah, that's when I carry that thought. That's
when I carry all those five and a half inch
big bore Blackhawks.

Speaker 4 (03:11:40):
See you said that. Now I got to get that.
I got a call doc and get this ulster for
a five and a half inch h because I already
got it for the six and a half. So he's man,
but yeah, that's the.

Speaker 3 (03:11:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:11:54):
I'd like to tell you all to go order stuff
from him, but I'd rather you're not because I don't
want to wait longer for my stuff, So terrible holsters
don't buy them. Horrible, horrible, horrible stay away. So I
got a question for you guys.

Speaker 2 (03:12:06):
This is my last question. This is regarding the grip
the various angles of the stocks, the grips that whatever
the hell you want to call them. We have birds, said,
we have Bisley, we have plow handled At what point
is it the caliber?

Speaker 4 (03:12:22):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (03:12:22):
The use?

Speaker 2 (03:12:24):
Is it the overall size of the firearm? How do
you choose what fits your mission best?

Speaker 1 (03:12:28):
Anything I think is what I determined to be high recoiling.
I do like the Bisley. I actually shoot the plow
handles really really well. I prefer the way the plow
handle points and handles. But there is a recoil threshold
for me personally. Where you know a Stout, a forty

(03:12:49):
four mag, a Stout forty five cult, any of the
big bores, like I need them in a Bisley. And
when we get into Bisley's there's a bunch of different ones.
You got coult sold one which has this like really
extreme scoop. I think the key number five frame was
a Busy backstrap and a standard front that he welded together,

(03:13:09):
some bent welded version of it because the original cult busily.
I think they're super comfortable. I don't like the way
they shoot. It's got that really extreme scoop on the
front strap and it's.

Speaker 4 (03:13:22):
Narrow, super narrow.

Speaker 1 (03:13:23):
Yeah, like really pinches down there at the top, and
then like Magnum Research the BFR phenomenal gun. I cannot
believe they sell them for what they do. I can't
believe that gun is fifteen hundred dollars. It's fantastic. They've
got their own version of a bisley and it feels

(03:13:44):
like markedly different, same thing. Freedom Arms has their own
version of a grip. So there's a lot of different
ones out there, but the ones you, most of the
people listening are going to come across, are going to
be the riggers though. And to me, like when I
get into forty four mag a stout forty five Colt,
it's time to get the bisley out. I had a

(03:14:06):
four seventy five line ball in a plow handle at
one point, and like, did I just to soon sink
that thing in the bottom of the lake is touch
it again?

Speaker 4 (03:14:16):
But within rugers like you have the old XR three Red,
which is kind of a short, narrow frame, and on
the six and a half forty four mag no no problem.
And then you have the Super Blackhawk, which is just longer,

(03:14:36):
but it also flares out at the bottom more, which
is silly because your pinky it tends to be your
shortest digit, so all it does is accelerate the recoil
into your hand, and then you've got like the Bisley
and I like the forty one mag busily feels like
you're shooting thirty eight widecutters. You can shoot some stout

(03:14:59):
stuff through that, like, but I don't shoot busilies as
well as I shoot. I'm with John like he and
I like our hands are about the same size, so
it's like he and I don't like we're talking about
this last the last podcast.

Speaker 1 (03:15:15):
When we hold hands, it's not weird at all. It's
it's not we're like, let's.

Speaker 3 (03:15:21):
We feel like we're in kindergarten.

Speaker 4 (03:15:26):
What I came up with in my brain was I
was like, for a forty four mag or a moderate
forty five cold, that's kind of like, let's say three
hundred grains thousand feet per second, there's the threshold I
can still run plow handles there. So I'm like, I'm
just going to convert this, uh, this ruger. I'm just

(03:15:48):
going to shave the back of the grip frame. And
then I met Ronnie Wells at Shootest.

Speaker 3 (03:15:55):
And that happened.

Speaker 4 (03:15:57):
He's like, oh, I do it I do a round,
but XR three. I'm like, how do we not know
each other?

Speaker 1 (03:16:04):
Yeah, the plow handle BFR is a round, but two
freedom asemall round buck guns is a custom option and
it's reminiscent of that. Ronnie makes over four hundred different
grip frames. Now, yeah, he knows what each and every
one of them are.

Speaker 4 (03:16:21):
I'm like, dude, I don't know. Just tell me what
I should get and that's what I'll get. Yeah, well
that one's this, but it's thirty degrees backswept and you're like, yeah,
it looks the same in the picture. I like the
potato judge. That's my I got one ready to go
on right now.

Speaker 1 (03:16:39):
Everybody loves that grip frame gives you more clearance. So
that's another thing. You got to consider. These grip frames
depending on your hand size. Like the where that gun's
going to contact you in the most painful way generally
is going to be this knuckle. Right here. You'll see
guys ball up cotton balls, wrap them on with tape,

(03:17:00):
do anything they can. So, like, Ronnie plays with this
dimension a lot. Right here, we're for a different hand.
You know, you might need a different grip to keep
that thing from recoiling back into your knuckle.

Speaker 4 (03:17:10):
So and I grip frames.

Speaker 1 (03:17:15):
When would you want a bird's head? Or would you
not if I was dressing up like a pimp and
an eighteen hundreds worehouse. There you go, we put one here.
I hate bird's heads. If I did, i'd like the
like the old cult lightning style one that's actually got
a shelf for the web of your hand. If anyone
wants a forty four mag a caro and stainless with

(03:17:39):
a bird's head grip and a three seven five barrel,
please reach out to me. I will sell it to
you cheap. I got one in there, and I hated
more than any gun I owned.

Speaker 3 (03:17:47):
Hollor.

Speaker 4 (03:17:48):
Yeah, put another grip frame on it to change the
grip frame. But today I'm getting shot one hundred fifty
rounds through this. And when I got it back, I
took a file and carved like I found one spot

(03:18:10):
on the gun that the fitting was good. But I
had kind of a forty five, So I actually took
a file Right before I got on this podcast. I
was sitting there with a file and emery cloth and
round in that edge because it didn't hurt, but it
wore a blister on my knuckle.

Speaker 3 (03:18:27):
And meant, oh yeah, I'll do that all right.

Speaker 4 (03:18:35):
I gotta sik your something out.

Speaker 3 (03:18:39):
Because my dad.

Speaker 4 (03:18:41):
I bought my dad for his oh my god, let's see,
he's sixty eight, so so twenty for his forty fifth birthday.
I was just out of the army. I was living
in his house, you know, like getting getting ready to
go to the police academy. And his forty fifth birthday
comes around. I'm like, I had like two nickels rubbed together,

(03:19:03):
and I went to Mustang Pond and go. They had
a bird's head a Heio forty five goal for like
three hundred bucks. I was like, yeah, give me that,
and he promptly converted that to a Bisley because back
then the birds heads were the only way you could

(03:19:24):
get a sub four inch barrel. Like they were all
large frame, but the only way you could get a
three order was a bird's head. They've never done a
bisley short of a four and three quarter that what
in e Lipsy's and very few four and three quarter
Bisley's that weren't They were all s us I've.

Speaker 1 (03:19:43):
Never done it as a production model, I don't think.

Speaker 4 (03:19:46):
Yeah, and the reason Darryl and I ended up with
these plow handle forty four mags when we were down
at Lipsey's warehouse. We both wanted that. We're both like
forty five ACP three seventy five convertible and Jason's like, yeah,

(03:20:07):
you're like a month later on for a minute, and
I said, well, what do you got in at three
point seventy five? And because I got the Tailo the
Tailo Edition guns. Yeah, so we snagged two of those
because I was like, you know, if even though it's
a plow handle, I was like, I like a plow
handle and I'll load Ammo, that's comparable for that gun.

(03:20:31):
But I was like, if we don't jump on those now,
they may never happen again. And they had littlem in stock.

Speaker 1 (03:20:37):
We left with two, so yeah, I like that general setup. Yeah,
a little bit shorter barrel. I mean it's it's super handy, but.

Speaker 3 (03:20:51):
But yeah, and.

Speaker 4 (03:20:53):
You know you back to grip frames. The Dragoon grip
frame and the bird's head are the two most painful.
Those are just exercises in torture.

Speaker 3 (03:21:08):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (03:21:08):
The old your Dragoon Super Blackhawk the original that has
like the flat on the back and the point that
will drive into your knuckle at warp six that those
things are just evil. Yeah, here it goes.

Speaker 1 (03:21:27):
Yeah, dude, that thing is like if you see the
way it's swept back, it's it's sharp. That's a point.

Speaker 4 (03:21:34):
It's not even a corner.

Speaker 1 (03:21:37):
And man, you sparkle one off, especially if you've got
big hands and it's up against it. I got a
stout forty four mag you're pushing a three hundred and
something grain at you know, mock two. Ooh, it's it's
not pleasant. No, but it's gonna go. It's gonna come
up and just strip the skin off the top of

(03:21:59):
your knock at best if you're lucky and it doesn't
the bone first. Yeah, but yeah, good news like it
used to be. Oh, Powers did a couple of grip
frames and they were hard to come I didn't make
many of them, but the number five frames from Power

(03:22:19):
Customer really good. Or you could get a plow handle
maybe modify it. We had a few different versions, different links,
you know, but they didn't really sell them separate like
most things were. Rather doesn't sell components that much. Then,
when Ronnie Wells decided nobody's making grip frames, man now
there's nothing you can't get it. If you can't get it,

(03:22:40):
email them and it'll make it.

Speaker 3 (03:22:43):
Why stop at four.

Speaker 4 (03:22:44):
Hundred and thirty?

Speaker 10 (03:22:45):
You know?

Speaker 4 (03:22:48):
Well the two we had a conversation the other day
and I'm like, dude, I could sell a pile of
the round but XR threes for the plow handle guys. Yeah,
because I'm like, there used to be. Was it Ben
Forkin that did the little gun the round? Yeah, like

(03:23:14):
the little gun single sixth conversion that was that was
second and he round budded the x R three frame
or the single six frame. Uh so this is like
the big daddy version of that. Well, that and the
Potato Judge. Those two frames are magic. The potato Judge.

(03:23:37):
Klosner's got a three point seventy five forty five coal
Lipsey's Bisley and he had Ronnie fit up a potato judge.
And that's what Daryl is shooting those three tens at
a thousand on the Uh. We did a video on
YouTube and I think Instagram and Darryl's sitting there banging

(03:23:59):
away with that that grip frame and I shot it
a little bit and I was like, uh, and I
promptly stole the load data in the bullet. I was like,
you any more of those? Yeah, I'm going to load
some of those for my Colt so or for my
forty five Colt which is still with mister Westerner and
Western Oklahoma getting the Rugger warning label banner removed and

(03:24:26):
a firm and Garza front sight. Yeah right, because when
I put the three twenty five slammers in it, they
started shooting towards the stratosphere.

Speaker 3 (03:24:35):
So yeah, but.

Speaker 4 (03:24:39):
Got so much cool stuff, David. How many single actions
do you have? You don't have to give me like
the exact figure, but how many of you own.

Speaker 1 (03:24:49):
Just a just a couple that aren't like the pile
of naas I ended up with.

Speaker 4 (03:24:55):
You have a pile of naas?

Speaker 1 (03:24:57):
I have like six or seven or eight of them.

Speaker 4 (03:25:01):
Oh man, this is where Timing got a freedom.

Speaker 1 (03:25:06):
Here's what was a pug? He ha's a pug with
Ryan scripts on it. Oh yeah, dude, that is money.

Speaker 4 (03:25:13):
All right here? Guns? Oh is this some vintage freedom
arms history right now?

Speaker 1 (03:25:20):
Oh yeah, well buckle gun? Oh well, ty a single action.
So I've been looking for one of these forever because
you can find the guns, you can't find them with
the belt bucklestde right. Some guy at some point, for
reasons unbeknownst to me, rebarreled it with an NAA barrel.

(03:25:43):
So I got to mill that thing down and recontour it.
But I finally got my belt buckle gun. I got
the buckle for twenty dollars in a Lander, Wyoming gun shop.
Jumped bin yep, And it took me like six years
to find a gun add the stud for it. I
didn't look that hard Cabella's in Nebraska.

Speaker 4 (03:26:06):
Son.

Speaker 1 (03:26:07):
It was about was worth more than the gun by
all means.

Speaker 4 (03:26:10):
Yeah, my old man in the eighties wore one of
those with a Western belt. You should ask him about
it next time you see it, Like, hey, I heard
you wore a belt local again. Oh, as soon as
I get this barrel mill down so it fits in
the buckle, right, I will wear it. That's that's magic.

Speaker 3 (03:26:26):
I yea.

Speaker 8 (03:26:27):
Before they stopped making him, I want to say what
it was around twenty ten, twenty eleven they stopped doing it.

Speaker 1 (03:26:32):
I want to say in AA yeah, yeah, yeah, because
I think they bought the design from Freedom Arms and like, yeah,
I'm eighty six, eighty.

Speaker 8 (03:26:42):
Seven, yeah, but oh my god, when I was when
I was doing when I was doing gun shop stuff,
like like not the sot stuff I'm doing now, but
like when I was working for a guy doing a
gun doing gun shop stuff, It's like they'd run they'd
run promotions and they'd be like, you know, you buy
a certain number of guns and we'll throw and you know, a.

Speaker 1 (03:27:01):
Belt buckle gun for like is like fifty bucks. And
I was like, man, I don't need one of those.
And now it's just like, oh, I love them.

Speaker 4 (03:27:10):
I think they're awesome.

Speaker 1 (03:27:11):
I like the twenty two Maga blackwadow that folds into
its grip and has a pocket club on it.

Speaker 4 (03:27:16):
They got some funny stuff, man, good on them.

Speaker 1 (03:27:20):
Yeah, I really fund to shoot too.

Speaker 4 (03:27:22):
They are. Yeah, we we did the so funny thing,
like Darryl and I shot Show twenty or nra A
twenty four. We went by the Freedom Arms booze I had.
We both had this startling revelation three fourths of the
socialites in Dallas carrying NAA something.

Speaker 1 (03:27:46):
Yeah, it checks out.

Speaker 4 (03:27:47):
I believe that. Yeah, it like, oh I carry that
on the golf course. I carry that here, I carry
that there. And Darryl's like, have you ever seen the
Hamry Forge grips and the guys that in are like,
oh god, those are brilliant. We'll talk. And then Jason
did the NAA Rule one and they did it on

(03:28:10):
a model that was like, I didn't really We kind
of wanted to do it on the PUG.

Speaker 8 (03:28:15):
Because that's like, that's where it just looks the coolest, right, yeah,
just the whole loud knife concept.

Speaker 4 (03:28:22):
Oh yeah, a loud knife. That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (03:28:25):
But we're talking to Jason.

Speaker 4 (03:28:28):
He was like, now I want to do it on
this model that's a dedicated twenty two mag and I
was like, oh, all right. And then we got one
and I was like, oh, like, I'm making hits at
twenty five yards with this little, you know, night loud knife.
You can scet a little more site radius.

Speaker 8 (03:28:47):
It's got and well, the freaking the big dot that
comes on the PUG is not easy to be precise with.

Speaker 4 (03:28:55):
No, and that guy the NAA Rule one out of
Revolver Fast on the end of the table. People were like,
move the mountain guns over there. I want to see that,
you know, And you're like really, but anyway, dudes, I
got a bounce I will as before you go through
final question.

Speaker 2 (03:29:15):
No, So to the listeners the viewers, make sure you're
following those sources that you found to be beneficial. These
guys are going to tell you where they can be found.
If you didn't already know, pay attention Brian with a
y American.

Speaker 4 (03:29:28):
Fighting Revolver dot com and all the socials just American
Fighting Revolver. Yeah, and you'll see a lot of official
from David simmerarly right place, right time.

Speaker 3 (03:29:42):
What can I say?

Speaker 1 (03:29:43):
Yeah, it worked, John, find me at ACEXR dot com.

Speaker 4 (03:29:50):
Well, you can find the.

Speaker 1 (03:29:51):
Company that I work for at ACEXR dot com. I
am very hard to find, so pretty much on here
is where you get me. But I'm ace Virtual Shooting.
That's my day job.

Speaker 3 (03:30:03):
Love it.

Speaker 1 (03:30:03):
We do VR training. So if you don't get to
shoot as much as you want, which applies to all
of us right now, Like Chauncey shoots every day. Man,
I'm looking around. He's like, I don't remember the last
time I shot most of these guns. Well, like all
of us. It's a very cost effective, realistic, useful way

(03:30:23):
to train with a firearm without having to go to
the range.

Speaker 8 (03:30:28):
So heck, yeah, all right, yeah, because we're degenerates, you
should make us ah, you know, you should. You should
print us something that gives us a DA revolver trigger.

Speaker 3 (03:30:39):
There you go.

Speaker 4 (03:30:40):
So yeah possible.

Speaker 8 (03:30:44):
You know they'll get around to it at some point,
because I have I if I didn't get horribly distracted,
i'd probably have about one hundred and sixty hundred and
seventy five K as far as virtual round shot.

Speaker 1 (03:30:55):
I think I'm sitting out.

Speaker 8 (03:30:56):
I'm sitting at like probably eighty right now, and I
haven't even picked up my my my meta headset in
probably two and a half months. Yeah, it's just it
goes in waves and then I'll and then I'll and
then I'll jump into ace, I'll do the daily drill
and I'll shoot like you know, eight hundred and two
one thousand of those virtual rounds a day.

Speaker 3 (03:31:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:31:17):
Man, it's it's a great way to keep up on it,
and it's it's a hair way to do things you
can't even do with the range or at a lot
of ranges. And then you know, when you do pick
your gun back up, you're going to be better. So
tight up. Yeah, so I can buy more revolvers to
come on here and talk about ye, David's.

Speaker 8 (03:31:38):
Me personally, not too much going on on social media.
I am part of I'm half of DNA Guns. If
you have a transferable, irreplaceable machine gun and it's got
a problem, we can likely help you out. We also
have a bunch of We do rentals and parties and
all that sort of other stuff too, all that kind
of fun stuff.

Speaker 3 (03:31:59):
Cool.

Speaker 2 (03:32:01):
So big thank you to the sponsors, Big thank you
to the listeners, the viewers, the Patreon subscribers, Big thank
you to the sponsors being Lucky Gunner, Filster Walter. If
you like what we do, make sure you're hitting that
like button, make sure you're sharing, especially if it's been
beneficial to you. And if you really like what we do,
this long form content, you can find us at Patreon,

(03:32:24):
dot com, slash Primary and Secondary. If you don't want
to go to the Patreon route, you can always go
to the forum Primary Secondary dot com slash forum. Right there,
there's a banner that says network support and you can
support through that.

Speaker 10 (03:32:36):
Now.

Speaker 2 (03:32:36):
Right now, I do not have the ability to upload
videos on YouTube until next year because of strikes for
things that did not occur. I would love to be
able to speak to someone at YouTube and point out
look at these strikes and it's the violations don't match
the videos by any means.

Speaker 3 (03:32:58):
But here i am.

Speaker 2 (03:32:59):
I'm at two strikes third one channel's gun, so that's awesome.
I've been doing this for ten years, thousands of videos
and because they can't even maintain their own stuff, so
it's irritating. But hopefully this doesn't get taken down. I'm
surprised we were going three hours thirty three minutes so far.

(03:33:20):
Awesome discussion. As per the norm, we got to get
into the weeds on a topic that not enough people
are talking about, and it's a fun topic. Not everything
has to be the semi automatic, plastic, fantastic night vision ar,
all of this stuff.

Speaker 1 (03:33:40):
All of this stuff works in the supports.

Speaker 2 (03:33:45):
Different aspects of defense are when we talk about revolvers
in general, you know what, double action revolvers are fantastic
for new shooters, so they're fantastic to maintain for your
own skill sets, which translates to semi autos. Keep shooting,
keep training, it's a good time. I think that's pretty much.

Speaker 1 (03:34:06):
Will not ruin your block shooting, It's okay, No, they'll
they will.

Speaker 2 (03:34:12):
They will improve that shooting majorly, improve yeah, and even
even a little tiny six forty two or a the
episode is four forty two if I recall correctly, even
a little four forty two double action only little Smith
thirty eight revolver. Just those trigger presses, control that control
that front set through your trigger presses.

Speaker 4 (03:34:31):
But if you can shoot a four forty two, well,
you can shoot anything.

Speaker 2 (03:34:34):
Well, can shoot out in fact, absolutely absolutely, that's a fact.
So hopefully you find these as educational and entertaining as
I do. Always open to comments, always open to feedback.
Don't hesitate to comment, don't hesitate to reach out to
me Matt at primary secondary dot com.

Speaker 3 (03:34:52):
I do have an.

Speaker 2 (03:34:53):
Episode later this week if it works out, I'll be
talking with Boone again and we'll be talking about cool
fire and we'll be talking about other training methods or means,
and that also ace works is part of that. Not
necessarily shooting live fire. Things that you can do without
having to expel rounds, like make a lot of noise,

(03:35:17):
you know, all that kind of stuff. So if you
can do in your basement and not get in trouble,
so that is pretty much it. Awesome discussion.

Speaker 1 (03:35:23):
Thanks guys.

Speaker 2 (03:35:25):
I will not kill the needs and I'll talk to
you guys later.

Speaker 4 (03:35:28):
Thank you, Siyah

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P&S ModCast 442 - The Allure of Single Action Revolvers

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}P&S ModCast 442 - The Allure of Single Action Revolvers