P&S ModCast 443 - CoolFire Trainer - Primary & Secondary Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, Matt Landfair here with primary and Secondary. Welcome
to modcast. The episode number today for forty three. The
date is October thirtieth, twenty twenty five. The topic cool
fire trainer. Now I posted a video of cool fire. Oh,
I don't know how long ago. The comments were, we're

(00:22):
not kind. The issue that comes up are people that
see it and don't see an immediate application, or they think, oh, yeah,
this is this is this is a waste. And I'm
someone who likes to explore things, and I like to
give things a chance, and I like to see things
for myself, and I really like, yeah, I really like

(00:43):
to see things for myself. And I got my hands
on one that was compatible with a glock forty seven
and I messed with it and thought, Okay, what this
is allowing me to do is do some dry fire
in a safe environment and helped me work on following
the dot during recoil. Now, is it exactly what the

(01:08):
what the recoil is going to be like while firing
a gun? It's recoil. This slide is reciprocating the point
the thing that I've been using it for, specifically red
dot training. So first off, agencies or even uh citizen

(01:33):
red Dot courses. Introducing the dot. We're starting at a low,
slow pace and I don't want to jump into the
live fire yet. I want to. We're going to talk
about the principles behind this, and then we're going to
talk about, Okay, this is what it looks like when
you're firing a gun and you're you're looking at the dot,
which is reciprocating. It's not that big of a deal,

(01:55):
but it's sure is nice to be able to see
it in person and to track it. And I think
it's a useful tool. It's similar to how I use
the shirt pistol, and I use that in a method,
the shirt pistol, and they're also a blackbeard for the
ar and showing students what potential paces they could be

(02:15):
going while shooting, and basically the dots showing us that
well cool fire also helps with tracking the dot, figuring
out all that good stuff without having to expend rounds.
So I anticipate, yeah, there's going to be some negative
there's going to be some negative feedback and negative commentary,
and that's okay. People don't necessarily have to understand people don't. Also,

(02:40):
some people may not they might may not see the
intrinsic value of something like this. You might not see
any value. That's okay, perfectly fine. I do. I appreciate
the product. I like it. I think it's really cool.
It's especially cool to hand it to new shooters. Every
time I find something that just provides a new little angle,

(03:03):
and I provide it to a new shooter, that kicks
up excitement a little bit more. For me personally, going
from iron sights to red dots, that was something that
helped me motivate. I was motivated more to shoot more
because all of a sudden I was seeing these results
that I hadn't seen before. And since then my shooting

(03:26):
dots as much my irons game has increased. So I
like to see things for myself. And so we have
Boon here, Boone with cool.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Fire, and thanks for having me on.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Oh my pleasure. And this is also this is something
we've talked about doing for quite some time, and it's
just a matter of figuring out schedules, or me being
awake or not sick, or not having a five year
old pounding on my door telling me, Daddy, Daddy, I
need you right now.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Affection takes time. Affections last time.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah, yeah, But there was an interesting history also with
Primary Secondary and cool Fire where one of our early
videos had a slight review and I think there might
have been some issues that they ran into that you
guys were able to resolve and actually improve the whole system.
So if you don't mind, yeah, go over the history

(04:24):
of what the company is. How did someone come up thinking,
you know what, let's try this, because I like, I
think innovation is awesome and it's so cool to see
how things develop and where they go.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah. So cool Fire is a branch off of another
company called d'vork Instruments. Devork was started in nineteen ninety five.
Their first product, and actually a lot of gun companies
have a Rimmington Q ruger is a measurement device called
the trigger stamp. What the trigger scan is. It's basically

(05:04):
a vice and a bench that will hold the gun
steady and it has a finger that will pull the trigger.
And it's whether you're designing new triggers, whether you're quality testing,
whether you're doing any kind of warranty work, like I
know a company that makes bolt action rifles in a
six blackout. That's what I'll say every single one of

(05:27):
their rifles goes on a trigger scan. It doesn't matter
if it's an Air fifteen, if it's a bolt action rifle,
if it's a big gas gun. Every single one goes
across it for quality assurance, to make sure that triggers there.
They keep the print out and they can go back
and they can reference serial number eighty four. Yes, we
have the trigger. They're saying it's got grit. Let's look
at the report from there. Dvork have very high profile

(05:50):
clients FBI CIA military contracts, both international and in the
States for a lot of the simulator companies. So one
of the larger ones is TI Training Virtra. Several of
those large simulator companies buy recool kits from Devorc instruments.

(06:11):
Devork is magazine and barrel base. You retilled the CO
two in the magazine versus with cool fire in the barrel.
They also offer more heavy duty recool kits for shotguns,
bolt action rifles, heavy machine guns, and they've even made
a replica M two for shooting on a simulator. And

(06:33):
then so devork started in ninety five. In about twenty
fourteen fifteen, the founder Alde Waak decided that hey, the
civilians need this as well. He's getting approached by a
lot of competition shooters and police officers saying, hey, we
love your Devort systems, but they are also three and
four thousand dollars. Can you make something more approachable for

(06:57):
your average competition shooter can still carry your average police officer. Yep,
And in twenty fifteen, cool Fire was born. Started with
a handful of blocks and have expanded to currently over
one hundred and fifty different models.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
One of the one of the some of the negative
feedback I've read that I've heard is the idea that
the cylinder can only hold so much gas, so basically
you're looking at a mag two mags maybe worth.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Of The.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Thing that I think is being missed with that, though,
is how easy is it for reload? It's time, It's done.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Takes three seconds. And here in a little bit I'll
show exactly how you can vote the gun and how
you sew it up. It takes less than two minutes
from the time your gun is loaded with live ammunition. Yeah,
to the point you are drag fire training and you're
getting recall and yes, you're going to have to reload
a battle mag's worth, which you're gonna have to change
your mag anyway. Now, while reloading the cool fire is

(08:05):
not as quick as dropping the block seventeen mags and
putting it in, it's not that much slower.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah, And as you said it, literally you take the
the what does it, yeah, the bottle and you plug
it in. Nothing to it.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Second, I think let's let's just show that right now, Matt,
what do you.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Think that sounds good to me?

Speaker 2 (08:31):
All right? So here this is my carry block forty five.
It's in my my cine Core holster. But I'm taking
it out. There's no no magazine will show them the camera,
there's nothing in the changes. I'm gonna pull the trigger.
I'm gonna take this light off, and i'm gonna take
my live barlin spring and I'm gonna set to the side.

(09:07):
So we've got our barrel and we've got our spring.
They look a little bit different than your factory. They
are going to yah part of part of that reason
why is you'll notice so on this block barrel you'll
see the locking lots, right, that's how they interface with
the frame. Cool fire they don't have those big locking locks.

(09:30):
So cool fire is basically a direct blowback whereas blocks
and a few other models are tilt breech mechanisms, so
they're locked and then as the slide comes back, you
stick a live barrow and you pull the slide back,
and notice that burl will drop just a titch. Let
me grab a bottom, so just soda micro bottle. You

(10:01):
can buy this Walmart, Target, Amazon, places like that. You're
going to charge one, two three. What was I not
having to do? I was not having to back my
slide every time I wanted to pull the trigger. So
I have another block set up here. It's got a
cool fire barreland that was not charged. So I'm still

(10:21):
having to do the traditional amen pull the trigger. I'm
having to break my side kicks here, and even if
I'm keeping it pointed out, I'm still having to bring
my hand over and I'm having to run that slide. Now,
why is that bad? That creates starts? You shoot? We've
all been on the line with new shooters, and I
don't care if you're at your local handgun class, if
you're at gun sits under ranch, wherever. We've all been

(10:42):
on the line with new shooters that every time they
pull the trigger they want to run the slide and
they've learned that from They've learned that from bad training habits.
They've learned that from dry firing and running their hand
over the top of the slide and having to run
it all the time. So cool fire you don't have
to do that. You can train from your holster, using
your gun, getting those rets without having to come over

(11:03):
the top of your backless light. And like you said,
one of my favorite things about cool fires it runs
with runs with your dot. So that's my steiner. This
gun has been the gun site, It's been all over
and I prefer to train how I would fight. So
if I'm going to carry this forty five, I want
to be able to get that same site picture look
through my red dot, that same thing I'm gonna look at.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
Additionally, you guys also have a module that can attach.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, I've got I've got one of our small lasers here,
so just screws right on and you're gonna get visual
indication of where see if I can see if I
can hit this, you can kind of see it light
up in the camera a little bit, but you're getting

(11:50):
you're getting that visual indicator of where that shots can go.
So you're getting the practice of honing in on that target,
squeezing the shot, and knowing right where that shot will went.
Why is that convenient? Well, if you're steal care shooter
and you're practicing drawing from your holster or practicing inside
your house, and you paced up a B eight target
or you paced up a bad guy silouette in Oklahoma.
I got a couple of cleat targets on cardboard I

(12:11):
use in my house. I aiming in on it, and
I know right with that bulletskin and go same thing.
I d P A U, s P s A shooters
when I get rid of those targets at the end
of at the end of the match, go studio a couple.
This is dry fire advice. I don't care if you
use it with cool fire. Use it dry fire or whatever.
At the end of the us P, s A, I
d P A match or GSSP, if you can steal
a couple of those targets, steal them for dry fire practice.

(12:33):
If the targets you know you're going to shoot at,
steal them. It doesn't matter if there's holes in them,
because you know you're gonna have to hang into a
zone or to down zero.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Or question came up. So seeing the clips with VR headsets,
with the extended batteries, are there any plans for an
maybe an extended CO two cylinder or something for like

(13:00):
the Magwell or something like that.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
I've got we offer a couple of different extensions. So
I've got a Hellcat probe here. So you saw the
standard muzzle ways are on my block forty five year,
So that's gonna be good for twelve to fifteen shots
on average. So when you're talking about capacity, you're gonna
think about how long the barrel was. So the longer
the barrel, glocks thirty four Springfield five and a quarter
Chicato Excel, you're gonna be pushing that twenty twenty five

(13:24):
to thirty shots. Now, when you start getting into the
glock nineteen sized guns, you're twelve to fifteen. You start
getting into these micro compacts that are ungodly popular, and
like I love he I love Springfield, I love cig
but Sig absolutely just jams a whole bunch of bullets
into a three sixty five and a had a couple
of letters on the end. So when we before we

(13:46):
came out to micros, we came out with what we
call the rapid fil adapter, which is this one, and
then we have one that's called the extended shot. The
extended shot is about three inches long. It looks like
a suppressor. I don't have any tunity, but you can
see them on our website. It's gonna do the same
thing this wrapping field does. So this wrapping field along
with being a laser. You saw me unscrew the laser
and screw it back in on my block forty five.

(14:08):
This you don't have to. It has a fillport built
in right here. It's got the laser built into one
body and it sticks out about an eight and a
half ish from the gun. It's gonna add enough capacity
that this size gun that would only be twelve ish
you're talking fifty shots.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Still cool cool now, up.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah up teap so uh cool fireboroughs. You're not going
to have to clean them. You're not going to have
to do a ton of maintenance. But I will show
you on this block Barol. Sorry, I've got seventeen guns
with these on them right now. So the one thing
that you're going to have to do, as far as UPKEYPC,
you are regularly going to have to pay attention to

(14:57):
so on the back of the bar. We'll see if
I can get it. See that yellow piece of plastic. Yeah,
that's what's called the striker tip. What the striker tip
is is a buffer between your firing pin and the
striker of our system, and the striker is basically what
makes everything rock and roll. It pushes in on the

(15:19):
inside on the proprietary parts next to you to prevent
out and then come back forward. Striker tips typically are
going to wear out anywhere from four to six hundred shots.
Some guns you're going to get a little more life
out of them, some of them you're not. And if
you run a striker tip pastit usable life, it will
it will result in some in some damage, but typically

(15:41):
you're probably going to be calling me at the customer
service office telling me, hey, it quit before you're going
to damage anything.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
So what were what were those issues that were initially
detected in the early review on primary and secondary.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
So early on, and I wasn't that cool fire, but
from reviewing the notes that I have early on, it
was very similar to what we saw overall. So part
of the reason we have a striker tip now is
because the early iterations of cool Fire did not have
anything protecting your firing pin from the strictor of our system.

(16:19):
One of the big pushes for that was some of
the Wilson combat people. Some of the Team Wilson shooters
had come to our facility and had to have their
guns outfit. This is early, like probably before Wilson was
making like the wide Body nineteen eleven twenty eleven's. There
were a lot of them were shooting the Wilson Brigadier
ninety twos and they were breaking firing pins. And Bill

(16:44):
called and talked to the tech guy at that time
and was like, Hey, this is what's going on. This
is what I'm seeing. The only thing I'm seeing compared
to the shooters that aren't using it and the ones
that are, is the ones that are breaking firing pins.
So that was part of the early iter that was
part of the early changes in cool fire that happened
probably twenty eighteen twenty nineteen eighth area. And then overall

(17:09):
the improvements that we've seen. Number One, our manufacturing has
improved leaps and bounds since then. The process is going
into manufacturing, the process is going into QC and assembly
for the improve some of the materials we use as
far as making them.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Your audio just selves. Oh, your audio just switched from.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
HEP.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
That's hoping maybe you're back, am I bout check check
in and out.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
O hold on my check my check.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, I think you're good now. It sounded like it
switched to a different mic temporarily. Nope, it sounds like
you went the the other mic. Yeah, it looks like
you're accidentally muting. It might be because your MIC's just
going out and now you're back.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Mike, check my check.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
That works.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Okay, So I think that was move. So I'll just
continue on from where the where we started Striker tips
from the team Wilson guys, and then overall since that
early review, Mat, I'll be honest with you, I think
probably everything has changed now. While I wasn't with cool Fire,
then I can tell you just in the last year,

(18:35):
and I've been with cool Fire three years. The last year,
we've made leaps and vounds and changes to every single department,
from assembly to customer service to sales, from marketing to
even our internal processes as far as how we do things,
how we handle things internally, and obviously how we handle
things externally. Uh So, since your earlier review, probably everything

(18:57):
has changed or since primary secondor is earlierview. Everything. Everything
is changed from how the product looks, how the product performs.
We've changed uice about everything.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
And you guys don't just do handguns.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Nope. New for this year is what we call the sidekick.
It is the recoiling bolt for your Air fifteen tidern
rifle chambered in five five six or three hundred black
app or not sorry, not three hundred black out five
five six or two point three. We are working on
a three hundred black apples are so same idea. I've
got one here and I'm actually gonna drop it into

(19:31):
a rifle here in a little bit. Uh, take your
live bult care group out. Put ours in. It's in
three pieces. So you're going to have what we call
the vessel. You're gonna have a think yep. So this
is your This is your tank for your capacity. So
kind of the same idea. You're not You're gonna not
gonna use magazines. This is what we call the piston

(19:52):
and laser. This has a laser built into the board.
And then you have your standard. I say your standard.
It's red, your carrier and the Air fifteen is good
for approximately seventy to one hundred shots before you have
to refill. And where that number differs is going to

(20:13):
be how your buffers is tuned. If you're running a
center car being buffer versus a rifle, buffer versus an
H two versus a spring ko hye versus a spring
COO yellow, totally depend on how you have it tuned.
But we have the internal tuning to where you're going
to get seventy to one hundred reliable, good ceiling shots
out of the air fifteen kit Let's show how it

(20:37):
goes in. Yeah, have you gotten to play with yours yet? Now?

Speaker 1 (20:42):
It's as a matter of fact, it is sitting right
there next week. It's just a matter of me, okay,
get ar, take apart, put in new bolt.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
All right. So I'm gonna show this off a little bit.
This is my rifle, kind of my my fighting gun.
This is a twelve to five all BCM except for
the barrel, rosco. It's got surefire, got the AD points.
So this is set up basically how you see a
lot of patrol rifles. Now, not everybody gets the luxury
of running a can, but very similar to how I

(21:13):
would just about anybody with disposal. Income was set up
a fighting rifle, so I took I took the life
carrier out. Ours is going to go in. Typically how
I installed is I just to take the piston. I
don't install the carrier, and I slide it forward so
you'll see on the vessel it has a tea fitting

(21:34):
that is male. Piston has the same tea fitting only female.
I'm going to look down the upper and I'm going
to make the two come on cocker hammer a sporting

(22:11):
step events on Coctor hammers. So you're going to charge
into tank one, two, three, four five. So biscol kits
charge for about three seconds. Rifle kids charge for five.

(22:32):
See if I can, I mean you're watching, you're watching
the gun jump. This to me, it feels more realistic
and depending on CO two temperature, it's going to feel
more violent than what your standard five five six. Then
does we all know five five six guns don't really
recoil all that much, But if you spend any time

(22:53):
on the range shooting a five five six and high quantities,
you know your dot is still gonna move where your
irons are still gonna move, So you're still getting this.
I'm watching my ampoint dot move while I'm shooting. So
this is getting those good solid rets of trigger tip thing.
Focusing on your size and again, my favorite part of

(23:16):
my job is that you train with your equipment. This
isn't a plastic This isn't a plastic blue gun. This
isn't an airsoft gun. This isn't a nonga. This is
my surefire switch. This is my cam, This is my
aim point, this is my this one is Guysley or LaRue.
This is my trigger. This is how my fighting gun

(23:37):
is going to seal soil.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
You mentioned temperature, so warmer would have more recoil.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yes, so, uh CO two exists in all three states
of matter, liquid, solid gas. Now what changes that or vapor?
What changes that? Is temperature two gets too cold, it
freezes pretty close solid. It gets to between about sixty
five and eighty six, and it's a liquid. It gets
any harder than that, it's a vapor. So with us,

(24:09):
you can't get your COE two any warmer than eighty
five or you're gonna have overpressure issue. When I say
over pressure, I don't mean it's going to blow up.
I mean it's not going to fill with the liquid
that you need to make the consistent shots. You may
only get five or six compared to seventeen to twenty.
And it's got to be CO two because we depend
on the liquid can't be high pressure air, it can't

(24:30):
be nitrous, it can't be green gas, it can't be
any of that other stuff. If you if you were
to put HPA into a cool fire, pistol, weorl at
any kind of working pressure that HPA works at, you're
going to create a pipe bomb really really quickly. Because HPA,
I mean you're talking about forty five hundred five thousand psi.

(24:52):
That'll start sharing our threads and things will go flying.
Working pressure CO two typically is going to be between
seven point fifty and eight hundred seventy five ts i,
sometimes nine hundred. I don't see, UH really need pressure
higher than nine hundred on on what goes into the barrel.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
So what about nt O nitros oxide? No, it would everyone,
Everyone would just all of a sudden enjoy dry fire
so much more if you're filling it full of nitros.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Oxide and you and your honivic might go faster and
your hones.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Civic, would you go faster? I swore I heard someone's
voice go lower with taking it.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
But yeah, so Matt, I kind of want to talk
about what cool fire can be used for. You kind
of let into it early on.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Do I just want to point out I especially appreciate
what you just said about CO two and why it
has to be CO two and not all these other things,
because I hadn't thought of that, and that just makes sense.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Mm hm. So at locations, so applications, So this can
be used on your everyday law enforcement officer that wants
to get better, especially we're now in twenty twenty five,
and I think for the most part, most police departments
are issuing a red dot. But even I live in
a large tap or a large suburb of a metropolitan

(26:19):
in eastern Oklahoma, there are several departments there that are
not issuing red dots. They're still issuing your iron side
and glocks, but new to red dots because it's a
totally different site picture. You're not lining up the bumpy
things on the top of your slide. You are drawing,
you're presenting, and you're looking for the dot. The dots
should be going. The target shouldn't be lying anything up
that's their bank, and it's a totally different draw for me.

(26:42):
It's a totally different drawstroke. I don't know about you, Matt,
but like when I was first starting with the red dot,
it was kind of a different drawstroke because I had
to learn where it needed to be. And it's a
different site picture as the gun is recoiled because you're
not watching the site's move You're watching that red dot.
That red dots should never leave your eye line, that
red dots should always be there, So it's a little
bit different. And then competition shooters, we all probably know

(27:06):
an idpa uspsa shooter or ipsick that shoots a lot.
Most of those guys that are precious about it shoot
thousands and thousands of rounds a year. In practice. Now
where this can be useful, you can set up scale targets.
You can set up full sized targets in your backyard,
living room, apartment, wherever, and shoot those exact targets in
whatever layouts you want. The concealed carrier I'll tell you why.

(27:30):
Part of the way I do what I do is
the single mom that bought a glock nineteen in twenty twenty,
that she has seeked out some training. She wants to
be more confident with her pistol, drawing it from her holes,
from getting it out of her purse, getting out of
her nice stamp. And this gives your everyday person that
opportunity in their environment with their gun. I just had

(27:52):
that gout forty five and my tentical holster. I carry
that probably three days a week. I got glock nineteen
the other days of the week that I'm able to
come out of my tentacle or I know exactly how
much retention I'm going to have. I'm building that good muscle, Marma,
I'm building those good habits. And it was another thing
with police officers active shooter training. I have a friend

(28:12):
who teaches I think it's called alert or laser through LSU,
and rather than using SIM rounds or SIM blanks or
airsoft guns, he uses his coop fire in a glow
as part of that rep. You're still going to get
that requill you got one officer going into the room.
How you take this?

Speaker 1 (28:35):
And I think, also, yeah, oh go ahead.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Did you have you used yours in that kind of
like active shooter or any kind of scenario based training yet.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
So I've done it for basic red dot and I've
done it for basically it's kind of it's the foundational
the classroom portion of the of active shooter discussing movement
and shooting and stuff like that, where we're you want
to know, Okay, how fast can we move and tracking
the dot while we're shooting, and not necessarily stuff that

(29:06):
we're we're not doing this live, we're not doing this
at the range. We're before doing anything on the range,
before doing anything with sims, simulated stuff, just so people
have an idea of what's going on for a foundational
class That being said, then if I do have the
ability to use my own gun and my own setup,
I much preferred to do that, And if I have

(29:27):
the ability to go cool fire with that, I absolutely
would rather do that than some random blue gun or simgun.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, and so let's talk about let's talk about costs
both in like a law enforcement setting and then as
a standard individual so as using it in your use case,
Matt is kind of before you get to sims, before
you get to some of that stuffy sims are expensive.
Cooling training is expensive. What are you're talking about training rounds, sims, blanks,

(29:57):
the shot boxes and anything like that. That stuff is expensive,
I mean five, five, six, is still fifty to sixty
cents around at least here in Oklahoma. That's what people
are paying unless you're getting a good deal nine millimeter
floats between I would say twenty one cents and thirty
cents spent on where you buy it. Cool fire. So
you're talking about this soda stream bottle right here. You

(30:21):
can pick it up at Walmart, Fest Bit Target, places
like that for thirty dollars for your first one. That
bottle is going to get you somewhere between twelve and
fifteen hundred shots, maybe a few more. And then when
it's empty, you take it back to you local retailer
and you swap it out from fifteen to twenty bucks.
So what does that mean. That means your first bottle

(30:42):
is going to cost you two to three cents a shot.
Every bottle after that is going to cost you one
to two cents of shot. And that's using soda maker.
That's the more expensive version if you go if you
were to go with something like a tank ball tank,
which everybody knows like Tittman the Black Sew two tanks
that you can buy It's academy places like that. You
can get those tanks. Fields still feeling those I've seen

(31:06):
it as cheap as two and three dollars. I've seen
it as expensive as ten. If you're talking about twenty
ounces of C two for three dollars and those tanks
are going to actually twenty five hundred shots, you're talking
about fractions of a cent for realistic training. And I'll
go ahead and address address the point. It's not it's
everybody says online it doesn't feel the same. Yeah, it doesn't.

(31:27):
It's going to field seventy or eighty percent. I think
totally depends on the gun, but I think it gives
you enough recoil to realize you need to fix your grip.
You need to pay attention to your side picture. You're
gonna have to pay attention to what the gun is doing.
You're not going to get one hundred percent felt recoil
without actually going out and shooting. Well.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
With that mind, let's go back to teaching that basic
red dot class. One of the things that we teach
what is your dot telling you your dot, whatever direction
it's going, is telling you where the weakness in your
grip is. If it's going straight up and down, awesome,
If it's not moving it all awesome. If it's going left, Okay,
let's let's apply a little bit more pressure with our

(32:05):
left hand because it's that recoils going path of least resistance.
The way I teach is it's progressive where we're going
to start blue guns. Then we're going to use SIM
cool fire. Then we go to or not SIMP cert
cert cool fire. Then if we get there, sims. Sometimes

(32:26):
we don't. Sometimes sims aren't even possible because the area
that we're in. Sometimes it's just it's we're just using
blue guns that are shaped like blocks. But to be
able to get that interaction to show okay, the movement
of the dot to use your gun or to in
my agency, we all carry this. We all carry block

(32:47):
forty seven's with the same dots, the same lights. For
the most part, get one set up and I have
a spare forty seven that I have set up that
everyone basically is familiar with.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
This setup.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
We're going to we're going to go to class. Then
we're going to line up and do these different drills
where everyone gets to see this for themselves. And this
is small agency training. This is me teaching. And yeah,
we're going one by one because we're that small but
the applications there, and it's it's great to have multiple

(33:20):
tools to be able to show these things. So people
can have this in their hand, they can press the trigger,
they can watch the dot as opposed to me hit
in the front of the barrel or something like that
to simulate it, or for us to go to the
range and do live fire and we're pretty much kind
of wasting shots at that point. Why don't we start slow.

(33:40):
We're going to start okay, yeah, recoils is it is
going to be lesser, but the recoil is going to
be present, and it's going to be it's going to
be an easy way to show, super easy to reload,
very inexpensive. Get some shots, simulated shots, look at what
your dot's doing. They have an idea of what to
look for at the range, especially thinking of some newer shooters,

(34:04):
some more timid shooters that are going to be a
bit more distracted by shooting a live firearm or intimidated
by it. This is it's good that this might be
lesser pressures. So yeah, understimating, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
And another factor that we haven't even we haven't even
a broched. So, like you just said, you are issued
at glock forty seven. Well, here here in twenty twenty five,
there's a lot of police departments that are that are
getting away from glocks and m and ps in three
twenties that are going to twenty eleven. So for somebody,

(34:43):
and I said this the other, I'm a single action
podcast for somebody of my generations that grew up. I
was born in ninety six, so I was born during
the assault weapons van Still third gen smith's were still
super popular. But then as I kind of came of
a shooting age, it was really glock seventeen, glock nice
and glock third four or nothing. Nineteen eleven had kind
of fallen out of favor because they were they were

(35:04):
eight shot forty five, nine shot nine nulimeters, nine shot
forties that weren't high capacity, they weren't anything. So everybody
kind of got away from it. And now with companies
like Bull Armory, Chicado Self Arms, like what I've got
here with the platyplus the nineteen eleven is kind of coming.
Nineteen eleven style pistols coming back into favor, And for

(35:25):
a lot of people like me, we didn't grow up
with shooting a lot of guns with manual safety. My
first my first pistol I got in high school was
a high Point forty. It had it had a manual safety.
Every gun after that was pretty much glocks. My first
real center fire hanging that I show a lot was
a Block twenty two and it did not have a
manual safety. So like bullbarrew five inch gun, I'm still

(35:50):
going to have to get that rep. I mean, the
safety still works. This is this is a lock gun.
Safety is still gonna work. I'm pulling as hard as
I can. You see trembling, and I'm still come out.
How do we figure out wh take that safety off
and pulling? Christmas? I love the feel of the twenty eleven.
I just don't make twenty eleven money. Yeah. So, like

(36:14):
weapon's familiarity and like air fifteen is the same thing.
If you're new to the AR game or you are
trying out something different. You're trying out a new grip,
You're trying out a new light switch, You're trying out
that new laser because night vision's cool. Right, You're trying
to figure out how you have everything it might see
a right just holding it but moving around shooting. You're
trying you're going to get that rep with the sidekick

(36:34):
as well. You can be able to try that that weapon,
not like see if you like where it's at, See
what's going to do in a recoil. You're going to
try that new ad point or that new swamp box
or that new trigic on try that off to see
if you like it under recoil, see what you think.
You're able to get a feel for your equipment without
going to the range, without spending the gas money. When
we talked about going to the range and am on that,

(36:55):
but like gas and Oklahoma's almost three dollars a gallon,
I don't want to have to drive.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
That's not right all.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Most I don't. I don't know about as you get
further west, I don't know why. I don't know why
it's more expensive. When I was in Vegas for Thunderstick Summit,
it was like four dollars a gallon, And when I
was like, this is a little bit ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Well, and going to the range is a production, well
not for me. I was there. I went, I went shooting. Today.
I have I might have shot some flux, some flex things.
Non issue for me to go go somewhere to shoot
that's not for everyone. Not everyone can do that, and
so this fills a void, This fills a niche. That's

(37:39):
what I appreciate about it. That's what I appreciates about it. Yeah,
if you don't mind, I'm going to take a one
minute thirty second pause to run the ads. Good time
to refill a beverage. If you're really quick for bathroom,
we'll see. But yeah, run the ads really quick and

(37:59):
then we'll just jump right back into it and talk
about some training stuff.

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(39:46):
one of the things that you said. That kind of
stood out for me, and it makes sense, especially with
the sidekicksystem with an AR figuring out layouts and how
things should be on your gun during recoil. How cool
would it be shotgun because with great lesson shooting shotguns
and figuring out how to how to put your switches

(40:07):
on or your lights or whatever and not jam up
your thumbs during recoil.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, that's actually jamming up your thumbs. I learned that
in Steve Fisher's classic Understick an Extree hundred on number
one of fourteen eight seventy that had been vang komped.
My gun I own. There's no room, but you also
have to watch your phone because vang komp guns tend
to brief fire. It tore a hole in my glove

(40:32):
and my Extree hundred was jamming up against my phone.
I felt like I was going to break it, and
then Steve said, if you keep crying about it, I
will break it. But so shotguns individual use. If you
really wanted one, I could get a hold of one
for you. The Vork Instruments makes one for a seventies
five hundreds binellium force, but they are going to be

(40:53):
in that in that three thousand dollars rice ring.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Now, yeah, and the hots have one, clearly they might.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
If they need one. Steve knows who he can call. Uh,
But so let's talk about what you can use it with.
So lazers are cool. You can shoot a paper all
day long. I'm a fan. I'm gonna give I'm gonna
give some advice. I've been this industry a little over
three years. If you want to be a better shooter,

(41:23):
everybody's heard of Mantis. I like Mantis. I'm the user
of Mantis. Buy a cool fire and say you have
five hundred bucks to spend six hundred bucks to spin.
I know that sounds like a lot. A case of
Ammil right now is going to run you two seventy
five to three hundred. So two cases of Ammo work.
Buy a cool fire by a Mantis X three x

(41:44):
five x ten. The reason I tell you that the
X series Mantis is going to give you feedback. Cool
fire is gonna make it where you can shoot your
gun repeatedly, obviously without burning my amial going to the range.
It's going to make you a better shooter. Because I
don't know if you're familiar with Mantis Matt, you you
get to black Beard. So the Mentu X series is
going to call you out. If you've got too much
finger on the trigger, It's going to call you out.

(42:06):
It's going to say call you out. It's going to
coach you into being a better shooter. Or if you
are wanting to do a simulator, Uh, several years ago,
golf simulators were all the rage. People were putting golf
simulators in their basements and their man case whatever. Now
shooting simulators cool Fire. We came out with our own
this year. There are several other companies that make a

(42:29):
home based shooting simulator. You can shoot it to gun range,
you can shoot like my personal favorite of ours is
there's a shoot house that if you've ever been inside
of a gun site shoot house or a thunder range
shootouse or any Several large schools have them. But the
targets are going to be different every time. They could
be shoots, no shoots, they could be double taps, they
could be singles, it could be movers that are a

(42:51):
no shoot. And with ours, it changes every time you
go through it, so you're having to do that critical thinking.
And then there's several other apps. Striking In's out there
that works with the sidekick that's going to score you. Uh,
there are several other simulators that will work. There's phone apps.
I mean, right now, it's kind of the golden age
of dry fire. We're getting more more progressive with technology.

(43:13):
I mean, I see you're wearing an a SVR hat
I've shot HVR. I like it. I wish I wish
there was a way that we could that we can
incorporate cool fire and ACE.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Ok.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Yeah, we talked to some of their guys that goals, Uh,
maybe try to meet with a more shot show see
what we can't work out, because like Dvorx customers, one
of theirs is an Australian company that has VR with
like stereo headphones, kind of like what you're wearing. And
when I shot it, they roped off a big area

(43:45):
and it was like an active shooter situation. You're wearing
a VR, you walk around with a rifle and you've
got people screaming, You've got stuff going on, and just
adding that level of realism to your dry fire is crazy.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Absolutely. Well, Well, you just said about the Golden era
and then you brought up Yeah, Ace, there are v
there's VR, there's mantis, there's cool fire, there's there's shirt,
there's using blue guns for stuff. There's just basic dry
practice using your firearm, no ammunition, and just doing draws.

(44:20):
Double action revolvers are fantastic, so old school blue.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Blue snapcat you're aiming and you're getting that site picture. Yeah,
and for somebody who is completely new to revolvers, figure
out how to grip it, where to put my thumb
so I don't blow it off or send you having
to just figure out a grip. So and double action revolvers,
and I brought this out for that great drive part

(44:47):
toool double double single semi autos. I am a huge
fan of the Sig two two six two two A
two two nine series, especially the ones that were still made.
When you've got Cope with the Officer made in West Jermy,
A super big fan of that, of that kind of
golden age of double semi atus. Thir Jen Smith SIG

(45:08):
two two six is like that era before we got
to the modern striker fire. There were some great guns
that when you're talking about dry fire, guys were able
to get more comfortable because they could put a snapcap
in or they could just run it and it would
be fine.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Yeah. As a matter of fact, I've been in the
market for a Classic two twenty six for quite some time.
I had one as a duty gun for a while
and I sold it stupidly. I sold it probably about
twenty years ago.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
So yeah, or thanks thanks to Ernest, I've got I
just got Bretta PX four So yeah. So that I
asked to sell more PX fours than burretta Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
Uh. I remember talking to him. It might have been
at a Friends of Pat event, talking to him about
the PX four. It's a cool little gun, and it
doesn't have to be little too, it can be the
full size. That's a cool gun. I like bread of stuff.
I might have several behind me.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
Yeah, that's the one bread I have, and I fell
in love with it. I shot up full size and
I was like, okay, this is cool. And then a
friend of mine had a Pig four compact that had
the Langdon Turter job in a bag and the spartless hammer,
and I was like, okay, drive fight was okay. I loaded.
It was like, no, I gotta have this.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
So one of the things we've talked about a little
bit before we started was the training aspect again, I
actually not even again, I don't think I've said this yet.
One of the things that I'm sure at this point
we've been going for forty five minutes. I'm I'm sure
there's there're already negative comments. The point that has has

(46:55):
not been reiterated and urged enough is this doesn't replace
going to training. You need to go to training to
establish that that baseline. And you can use cool fire
to help enhance, and I use cool fire as part
of my training program, but I also use and I
do use sims, and I use blue guns and shirt

(47:16):
pistol and all kinds of other stuff. But these are
options to use. So for you in your own your
own training, you said you were you trained with Steve
what else?

Speaker 2 (47:28):
So I'll kind of give a background on me as
far as my farm's education. So it started as a
young kid, primarily with the Old West stuff. I'm instat
it's in single action. There was a show on History Channel.
This was two thousand and four, two thousand and five.
It's called wild West Tech. David Charody and Keith Charity
like the kill Bill which one of his brothers, kill

(47:49):
Bill actor, was all about wild West stuff. And they
had them about trains, about outlaws, about shootouts, about the
different things. And I loved learning about the outlaws and
the law and the pack Garrett's and Jesse James, that
Billy the Kid, the Bat Masterson's. And part of what
my infatuation with that was my dad has a cult
single action army seven and a half inch buri Nicol Stainless.

(48:13):
I don't know which one it is that was built
in eighteen seventy five, shipped from Colt to New York
City and then sold to the Texas Rankers instead of
seven guns. I got him that letter a couple of
years ago, so seeing that on the wall was kind
of fascinating to me. So I learned as much as
I could about Field Winchesters, about the Colts, at least

(48:34):
as much as a seven eight nine year old could.
And then as I grew up and got older, I
watched pre twenty twelve. I'll say there was a lot
of shows on Discovery Channel and History Channel of that Guns,
Sons of Guns, American Guns, Wild West Alaska. Some of
those guys I call friends now that were on the
TV show that I was trying to learn about all

(48:55):
these things and then I was a sophomore in college,
the first time ever took the legitimate class it was
through It was through college. It was called Basic Candgun
and before fire. To taking this class, it had all
been kind of self taught, where my dad taught me
shooting at top tens in the backyard of the bb gun,

(49:17):
shooting at top cans with a twenty two, going fishing,
that kind of thing, going deer hunting, that kind of thing.
We shot twenty twos a lot going up, but I
didn't shoot a lot of center fire stuff outside of
deer season or turkey season, anything like that. So the college,
the program I'm in I was in was called Parks
and a lot of left law enforcement. It's a feedber

(49:37):
program for the State of Oklahoma game Wardens, Alaska State Troopers,
Arkansas game Wargens, Texas Highway Patrol, or the Texas DPS,
whatever they call it. So I'm friends with a lot
of cops all over and they offered an elective. It
was a one credit out class. It was a weekend class.
It's called Basic candun basically a condensed version of gun
Site two fifty that you that you took to class four.

(50:01):
That next semester, I took an AAR fifteen class from
an Oklahoma a highly decorated Oklahoma Hi patrolman that actually
kind of started their patrol rifle program. At least for
the western half of the state. They didn't have a
range that they could use that he needed, so basically
he took a tractor with a box and a scraper

(50:21):
blade and built his own range and those cars and
he was was hardcore. Like we ate lunch and then
after lunch we were swinging kettlebells to get that heart
rate up and get those shots off, doing birds, that
kind of thing, and that really kind of pushed me
to pursue firearms more. It's always been a passion with
my kind of backtrack. In early high school, I would

(50:42):
work on guns. I say work on loosely. People in
my family would inherit them, or they would buy him
a gun show cheap. There was a family friend that
bought a bunch of I said, a bunch four Marlin
Model sixties at a gun show in Tulsa for sixty
dollars a piece because they wouldn't run well. You and
I both know people don't clean their guns, let alone
their their old room fires. And he brought them all

(51:04):
to the house and said, if you can get three
of these running, you can have the four. So I
spent a ton of time with some hops, just scrubbing
the receivers, scrubbing the bolts. They all worked. They gave
me one, so that kind of started my early education.
I would learn how to take them apart and learn
how to do all these things. And then during COVID,
I moved back to UH, the East Oklahoma area from

(51:26):
living out west UH and I was working for an
auto parts company. I'd worked there in high school and
kind of needed a job during COVID, and so I
went back to work there. Worked there for a couple
of years, and my sister was sorority sisters with some
of the family that own the company I work for now,
and they need they needed a sales and customer service rep.
And I said, I applied. I got the job. And

(51:50):
with my technical background, as far as knowing how to
take things apart how things work, then it was very loosely.
I knew how clocks work, I knew how some stuff worked. However,
fifteens worked already built and they are but as far
as two two six as nineteen eleven, that kind of
I hadn't exposed to it, but I wasn't afraid of
figuring it out. And then once I figured the gun out,
I figured out how perfect example, you had an issue

(52:12):
with your cool fire, I jumped on and said, this
is how you do it, since you a video that
kind of thing. And then as working at cool Fire,
talking to some of the high profile instructors I have
and worked with, I decided, Hey, I want to pursue
this education. I want to be a firem's instructor. Someday
I want to pursue this. So I applied for the
Jeff Cooper Scholarship to attend gun Site. I was awarded

(52:35):
the scholarship. I got to attend last year with probably
the best group of instructors I think I could have
ever asked for. The legendary lou Gosnell was the rangemaster
I consider a lot a friend. Now he's a great,
great instructor, great human being. Tim Campbell the CEO of
gun Site, great human being, great guy. And then pursuing
my knowledge. I'd never shot a shotgun in combative setting

(52:58):
and grew up kind of bird hunting shot trapp in college.
That kind of thing and found out about Vane Conference
Under six Summit, which is where I met Eric Gelhouse,
where I met Steve Fisher, where I met Mark.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Se oh hey Mark Yeah, or or or as some
of you referred.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
To him as the other Oklahoma David Tagle, who is
who for his age David's my age, Uh he is
he is a solid instructor.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
Oh accomplished and yes, super accomplished, super super knowledge well dude,
super super solid dude.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Think I'm when I have lunch with it next weekend. Uh.
But being able to learn from those people and being
able to have those conversationals people that they've been around
the block, they know floud and development, they know things,
and being able to pass this on to the next
generation and like something Darryl Vulki said at Thunderstick Summit. Uh,
Bill Jeans punched his instructor, card Eric Gelhouse, Bill Jeans

(53:54):
punched his Bill Jeans and uh Louis Arbuck or the
two dudes the fathers of kind of the modern about
a shotgun and only being one generation away, I say,
one generation from the legends of teaching fighting shotgun or
from teaching the fighting handgun and being able to pass
that knowledge on is wild to me.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Yeah, and it's cool and it's it's a close knit
group of wonderful people.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Oh yeah, and I kind of I felt kind of
like as a student. I really enjoyed it. And then
I went to eat a steak by myself the last
night in Vegas and Eric and Steve and Chuck Presburg
and his wife, they were all at a table and
Steve just goes and I walk over and I was like, oh,

(54:44):
good to see you, and Steve goes, are you going
to sit down or Steve? And Eric went and said
are you gonna say down? I was like, yeah, yeah,
I'll sit down with you. And I don't drink alcohol,
but I had a zero beer and like being able
to talk to them like they were no normal people
was wild to me. Yeah, and that was.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Humor great experiences, Yeah, wonderful And that's.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
I was eating lunch the first day Thunderstick and I
sat down. I looked at Darryl Bulky and I said,
can I sit here? He was like, feel free? And
I looked to my right, there's Chuck Prestburg and his wife.
David Cagle said that, and I was like, I can
learn so much that if I do be quiet and
eat my sandwiches, if this is at lunch, yes, And

(55:27):
I told him thank you, and Chuck's wife was like, hey,
you're You're all right. But they're normal people. Yeah, everybody,
they're just like you. Yeah, And I was like, okay, cool,
but like he was super being able to have that
kind of raw. I want to say intimate. Intate may
not be the right word with those instructors being able

(55:49):
to know, hey, if they're willing to eat a steak
with me or talk smack over the internet, and like,
there's a picture of me that hasn't come out from
Thunderstick yet. I'm getting my little diploma and see has
taken my son's shirt hoodie put it over my face
and drugged me back, and Eric Yellhouse is doing something
with my beard and I was like, okay, like I

(56:09):
kind of I kind of steel welcomed into this into
this world.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
That's awesome, and it's it is it is so cool.
And we discussed it very briefly before starting the Cool
Networking Opportunities and it's it's amazing how closely everyone's connected.
And you were, well, you attended a class with all

(56:37):
these guys and quickly accepted, easily accepted, and yeah, we
read their articles, we watch their videos, and then the
attend to class with them and then realize, Oh, these
guys are even better in person. I liked them before.
This is the next level because I get to see
their character and I get to see who they really

(56:58):
are and not just what's being presented an asterile video
or article or anything like that. You get to see
the real people. And we really have some wonderful people
in the industry right now, and we're yeah, we're lucky,
We're fortunate.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Yeah, And I think it's only going to go up
as long as as long as the industry is given
to the correct caretakers of the next generation. Like Daryl
said it best at Thunderstick, like with this next generation
of shooters, I mean, everybody teaching at Thunderstick probably the
average age was forty seven or older. And then you
had Zach Cox who's in his thirties, and David Cagle

(57:35):
who's in his late twenties, and Darryl saying we brought
these guys on because these are the next generation. Yeah,
they're trying to caretake it to a point to ensure
the knowledge is not lost. And like I keep referencing
the other night, I'm sorry, Matt, but like Brian said
the other night on a single action podcast, it's not

(57:55):
that it's lost, it's just that nobody's cared to ever
try to learn the information.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Completely true, completely true, yes out there, Yeah it is,
it is, and that's part of the motivation for me, okay,
for the podcast. Truly, A majority of the episodes are
because hey, this kind of looks neat. I want to
I want to learn more. I have a chat where
I have all the Revolver guys with the regular panelists

(58:20):
on the Revolver episodes, all in a chat and they're
talking about something, and hey, let's have a podcast about that,
because I want to learn more. But unfortunately, some of
these topics people aren't that interested in. But we we
definitely have our peers that are heavy into this. This

(58:42):
is this is like, dang it, what was his name,
the Cowboy? Uh Chauncey wes Westerner Wesner.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Yes, uh, yes.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
I saw a couple of videos of his that Steve
Shields posted and I was just amazed, and yeah, I
need to get this guy on. I want to hear
from him. I want to hear his perspective, and yeah,
I love to be a conduit or an outlet to
help people expand those expand those horizons and get this

(59:18):
is awesome.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
I want to say thank you Matt for you've been
a catalyst of at least my professional learning. As far
as what Mondcast does. The first Moodcast I ever listened to,
what I can tell you, I think it was sixty eight,
and it was the birth of the Roland special clip.
Oh yeah, and it was like Presburg you the guy

(59:40):
from KKM may have been on there, but it was
like talking about the rolling I.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Don't think I ever got a kk in person.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Oh you did. There was a couple of people and
it was like it was like you said, we're going
to talk about the birth of Roland specially, and Chuck's
like it's a thirty second conversation.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
No, yeah, yeah, and then moving up and it's so
the uncut episode of episode sixty eight is eight hours long.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
I didn't listen to that, like I just listened. It
was like sixty eight that's something, and it said to
barkle rollins fashion it was like twenty minutes long.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
And that was from nine years ago, and so I
think I think it's uh yeah, it's private. When it
was stream live in twenty sixteen, there were only two views.
We only had two viewers for that whole eight hour episode.
But that's okay. We had a lot of fun, and you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Catered to a lot of the people in the industry
that might not have had that chance to speak about
the product, about that experience. So I'm gonna say, just
as a normal guy, thanks for doing what you do
now because I appreciate it being able to look at
all of it. Because now I don't miss as primary
and secondary episode. I don't care if it's something I'm
into or not. I listen to it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
And for the record, David Cagle is fourteen.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Lives on Dino Nuggets and Bang Energy Drinks.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Yep, yep, I love you brother. Does Chuck still drink
Bang Energy drinks?

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
I don't think I saw him drink one Energy drink.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Oh that's good. I just might have years ago. Yeah,
Bang was it for him? Just I can't. I can't
do it. I can do everything else.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
But there's also ninety seven degrees in zero percent humidity
in Vegas when we were there, so I think all
of us were just trying to drink enough water to
not die.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
That's smart water. Yeah, So I'm trying to think of
is there anything else that you can think of that
we didn't cover. I think we covered a lot of it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
So we're talking about Yeah, I mean the Sidekick. Let's
let's talk about pricing real quick, Matt. We kind of
briefly touched on pricing, so we'll talk about the Sidekicks.
So that one right here in the package. This is
how you're going to get it, in this nice sunglasses
style case. You're going to open it up. That's gonna

(01:02:10):
be how you get it. You're gonna have everything in there.
Plus a soda stream bottle is good for fifteen hundred shots.
So Sidekick street price is four forty four seventy five,
So call it four fifty a case of five to
five six. You're gonna fluctuate between three ninety nine and
five hundred six hundred pen on what you buy. You're

(01:02:30):
going to have the cost of the Sidekick paid back
by the time you get to your first bottle, because
cost is something we're all be paying attention to right now.
We're going into a recession, but we're all still going
to need those solid drifts, So you're gonna have the
cost broke pistol kits. How you saw my Block forty
five set up with the standard mouzzle laser, you're gonna

(01:02:52):
be right now with a soda bottle. You're going to
be right around four sixty. With what's called our brass package.
So the brass package, you're going to be ready to
go for any of one hundred and fifty different models
with a laser, ready to train for twelve fifteen hundred shots.
How you saw the Healthcat pro setup with the extension,
You're going to be closer to six hundred with that extension.

(01:03:13):
It takes a little bit more for the cost of
that way. So you're talking about Yes, it's an investment.
We're talking about investment. It's going to pay for itself.
With a rifle kit relatively quickly, the hangd in kit
not far behind you. I'd say it's an investment. You're
gonna buy that bullet up front. Yes, that's the cost
of a new gun. I mean you can buy a

(01:03:35):
police Trading Block seventeen for four hundred bucks. Now do
you need another block or do you need more training?
And I think I would argue the point that you
need more training more than you need another block. And
I have seven blocks.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Yeah, and for me, I have a bin full of
blue guns.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Then I have.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
A SIM bolt for five, five six, a SIM glock
cool fire in my forty seven, my spare forty seven,
and a shirt pistol and other assorted things. And this
is my training kit. And it is so nice to
have all these things. And Okay, we're not going to
we're not teaching this, but you know what, we've run

(01:04:16):
into an issue with whatever shooters having an issue with
tracking the dot. I don't know, well, you know what.
Let's go. Let's go to the back of my truck.
I have my my whole kit back there, and we'll
break out the necessary tools and cool fire trainer probably
is going to be brought up because it's going to
help help that that shooter track that dot.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
Or you send them home with it like your department
for exactly everybody's issue. Hey take this home, take this bottle,
or go to go to best buy buy a soda
streating bottle. I want you to shoot this for a week.
Come back next Friday. Let's retry this call. Let's see
what you're going to do. Here's here's some things you
need to fix. You need to fix your grip, you
need to fix your your anticipation. Whatever it is that
you need to fix, you need to fix it. And

(01:04:59):
here's how you're going to do. Here's here's a training
tool to use to get past those barriers you're coming to.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
And talking to my buddy John. The fish cup. We've
done that with revolvers, with certain pistols. You know what,
take this do your dry fire. Absolutely, and again this
is an option nice sure like options.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Yeah. Absolutely. I will say law enforcement. We talked a
lot about law enforcement this podcast. All law enforcement gets
a fifteen percent discount on anything cool Fire branded. Also
for law enforcement and instructors. So instructors qualify for fifteen percent.
Law enforcement you go through govts. You get our discount

(01:05:43):
through govt's if you're a certified instructor. What I mean
by certified instructor is either through like toast Cleete, any
of those state recognize agencies that certified use as an instructor,
NRA USCCA, those other large instructors. Email customers serve which
you got a fifty percent chance its me, email us

(01:06:04):
a copy that I'll send you an invoice will get
it done. Also for law enforcement instructors, we offer a
T and sixty at and if you're interested in it,
kind of want to get a feel for it, because,
like you said earlier, Matt, there's been a lot of
talk on the internet. People have seen our ad, people
have seen postings. People will comment nonsense. People who haven't
ever experienced it will just comment nonsense.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
To yourself, I will yourself and see how it applies
to you and your needs.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
I tell people this at every tradsfer. It doesn't matter
if I'm on the shop show for if I'm an
NRA goals, if I'm in a local police department, I
can tell you all about it. Half of cool fire
is experiencing it. Matt. You experienced it yourself. I asked
you about it and you were like, I've heard about it,
never seen it, blah blah. I said, let me send
you one. See what you think. Shooting it for the
first time is half of the experience because you're like, oh,
I actually need to hold onto this gill and I'm

(01:06:51):
gonna drop it. So if you if you are an
agency or an individual officer and you're interested in team shoot,
our customer service support at cool Fire Trainer to shoot
us an email. I'm kind of our intent to Elie Liaison.
I can I can talk you through getting a teen,
I can talk to you through a department purchase. I

(01:07:11):
can talk you through maybe some of your training needs.
I know a thing or too, because I've seen a
thing or two. I've heard a thing or two. So
if you are interested in any kind of cool fire experience,
either come out to a show. We're going to be
We always are at goals, we are always at NRA,
we were always at shot. Come by and see us,
talk to me, give us a call. There's a pretty

(01:07:32):
good chance to call a customer service line. There's a
fifty percent chance you give me. If you don't give me,
tell miss same Dy you want to talk to me.
I will talk to you all day long about how
we can get you set up correctly for what you're
wanting to do.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
So let me tell you my first experience. I got
the cool Fire all set up in my forty seven,
loaded it up with the CO two, and this was
I think, I don't remember. I might have been working
Graves so and I was off and I'm in my office.
I'm thinking, okay, hopefully it's not going to be too loud,
and I press the trigger once, go oh, do it

(01:08:08):
a couple more times. Okay, I kind of like this,
and I don't know how many times I wound up
reloading and emptying it out and reloading this this, this
is kind of neat. I really like this, and then
bringing it to work and showing coworkers, check this out,
go to my car. I'm not bringing it in the break.
I'm not bringing into the gas station. Yeah, let's go.

(01:08:30):
Let's go to my truck and let other people try it.
And it's it's it's just a cool experience and it's fun.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
We talked about earlier. Half of what half of why
I do what I do is a single moment of
bottle block nineteen. So actually I'm gonna change that. A
third of why I do what I do is people
like that at bottom Block nineteen or Smith and Wiston,
Shielder three sixty five er and COVID. The other third
is for that experience I see thousands of times at
shot showing or whatever. Say, just like I said earlier, well,
I can tell you about it all day long until

(01:09:00):
you shoot it. You go oh wow, or you almost
drop the gun. And then the other third is just
because I love what I do. I love talking to
people about the guns they shoot, about how to get
them set up for the right way, meeting all of
the people I have, having the experiences and the talks
of it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
And for me, the reload aspect is a non issue.
Three seconds, three seconds, you're back to it. No big deal, yep.
And again for me, for the agency of my size,
I have one gun that's set up for it. It's loaded,
put someone on the line where they're shooting something, and

(01:09:39):
we're diagnosing or whatever. As soon as they're done, reload next,
next shooter. Simple. It's a tool.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
And I'm gonna say this so I am friends with
people from all over the United States that are costs.
I don't care if you're a small agency. I don't
care if you're LA County Sheriff's Office. I don't care
if you're Last Vegas metroball to FDI, And I don't
care if you're SOUF Western Oklahoma State Police Department with
four active cops. This is a tool that I think
you need to have your arsenal. Give me a call.
Let's talk about let's talk about how you get it

(01:10:09):
out of your arsenal and the improvements you are going
to see because you're going to see improvements in every
single one of your officers. The only people that I
don't think you're going to see improvement to it is
people that have an E ticket signed by Jeff Cooper.
If you don't have an E ticket signed by Jeff Cooper,
you probably need some improvement. And even if you have
an E ticket signed by Jeff Cooper, you're probably at

(01:10:31):
the age where you probably need to work on it anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
And for me, the biggest advantage has been everything oriented
to red dots going red dot handgun. That's been a
wonderful tool.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
And red dots are not the future, they're the here.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
And that present.

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
Yeah, I mean ten years ago we were just talking
about the Chuck Presburg role in Special. Ten years agoing
armor on a blog was like which magic. Everybody hated it.
And now you can't walk into a DAS pro without
seeing eighty percent of the guns cut for an RMR
or cut for an MS. Probably I would say seventy

(01:11:11):
to eighty percent of law enforcement agencies now are issuing
all of us on an RMR. An ACRO a signer
something with a dot, and most young companies that's the
first thing to look at is how can we mount
a dot on this new gun? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
So, where can people find you? And cool Fire?

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
So cool Fire you can find us on all our
social media's cool Fire Trainer, cool Fire Trainer on Instagram, Facebook.
We don't do x, we don't do TikTok, primarily Instagram Facebook.
You can also find our website www dot coolfiretrainer dot com.
Find us there. We've got one hundred and fifty different
models listed on our website. And if you've got if

(01:11:53):
you've got a weird one, or if you've got said
glock coppe, or you just have questions about compatibility. What
I do days, I'm a gun NERD. I get paid
to be a gun NERD. It feels great shoot us
an email. If I can't tell you off the top
of my head, I typically make one or two phone
calls direct to manufacturers and go, hey, this is what
we're working with. What kind of cross fatibility? The guys

(01:12:16):
the shadow systems probably hate to see my number come
up on their phone. I can tell you sez website
hates to see me coming because I'm going to type
in every keyword I can find to figure that out.
As far as me, uh, you can find me on
all the social spoon Walker, Instagram, Facebook, all that stuff.
I'm in a lot of the I'm in the gun
site group, I'm in a lot of the training groups.

(01:12:38):
I'm in a lot of the primary secondary groups. I've
made a couple of posts about cool Fire in the
primary secondary Facebook groups and even still on the forums.
I think I made a post on the forums a
year or two ago. So feel free reach out to me.
The best way to get a hold of me at
work is going to be through email. Just email support
at coolfiretrainer dot Com'll go do our support desk. There's

(01:13:01):
only two people that access as me and our customer
service manager, because my primary job is customer service. So
shoot that over. While we're talking about customer service, Matt,
if you don't mind me plugging this in, If you
are a cool Fire customer of the past and you've
had issues your cool Fire kits laid dormant, send me
an email. I want you to have your cool Fire
kit up and running. I can tell you there have

(01:13:23):
been some there have been some comments about our customer service.
Wasn't that great. I can tell you over the last
year personally, I have seen a ton of stride come
into the customer service department. We've made a lot of
policy changes, a lot of improvements. So if you've given
a cool Fire chance before you didn't have a great experience,
reach out to customer service. Let me and Sandy make

(01:13:45):
it right to you. That is our goal. We want
everybody to have a purchase a cool Fire trainer to
be happy with it. So I just want to plug
that Matt, thank you?

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. How's the cross compatibility with the RXm
and the glockmaking?

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
Should it should be good to go? I'd have to look.
I haven't had an r x M D. The only
thing with nineteen's our barrels are all the same for
block nineteen, So matter Gen three, four or five, the
barrel's the same. What changes for us UH? I think
it's the same for life components as the recoil spring. UH.
The Gen three still have like the one the single
like I call it the pencil style rod with with

(01:14:23):
the spring around it. Ten four and five went to
went to the two spring. I'd have to look at
what recoil spring the rx M has. Factory but it's
either going to be a three or four or five
block eighteen gotcha?

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
Gotcha?

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
Cool? And actually your your forty seven kit would go
right in it. As far as the barrel. I'd have
to send you a spring, but it would just stick
out that half into or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
Oh, gotcha, okay? Cool?

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
Or if you really wanted to shoot it with the
rx M, put your factory recall spring in it. You're
not going to get a crazy shot count. Uh, but
that's one hundred percent safety.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Do gotcha? Hm? Cool? H. Well, let's see here making
sure that we don't know how don't have any comments pending. Yeah,
thanks for good discussion. And it's nice to talk about options.
And that's one of the things that I post about frequently.
Today I posted about some of the uh doing it

(01:15:20):
that's right next to me.

Speaker 2 (01:15:21):
I saw the flush stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
Yeah, and you know, there's there's there's a niche, there's
a there's a purpose cool fire. You know what this
is a I found that it's been a really fun
training tool. I like exploring options, and that's why as
we speak, I might be carrying some form of a
revolver on me right now, because I like to have
a better understanding of options and how they fit. And yeah,

(01:15:46):
big thanks to Boone and cool Fire. Big thank you
to you the listener of the viewer, and also our
sponsors Lucky Gunner, Filster Walter. Especially big thank you to
the Patreon subscribers. If you like what we do, head
over to patreon dot com, slash Primary and Second and
from there you can support the network. If you don't
want to go through Patreon, you can go to Primary
Secondary dot com slash forum and there's a banner that

(01:16:08):
says network support, and through there you can also support.
One of the benefits of supporting the network is access
to these that are when they are live. Right now,
I'm having some issues with YouTube. I am getting strikes
for videos that aren't violating their policies but they say
they are, and I've been unable to actually upload. I've

(01:16:30):
been able to stream streaming right now, but unable to
upload videos to YouTube, so when they take something down,
I can't edit it and replace it. So right now
I have I think, like the Ace episode with John Kinnip,
that one still is not on YouTube because they had
issues with it and I couldn't re upload. So this

(01:16:52):
is going through Patreon, going through network support. That is
one of the ways to get these live. But they're
also always provide in the audio only form on your
favorite podcast app.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
So that is all.

Speaker 1 (01:17:07):
I still have more episodes to do, not done yet,
not done yet, you still have a reloading episode. There
was something that you said, specifically with your interest in
levers and stuff like that, that I might yep might
hit yeah, because I have a forty five seventy episode coming.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
Let's do a Thunderstick Summit episode. We need to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:31):
As a matter of fact, I would rather do that
sooner than later, because the longer it goes without covering it,
the more you guys forget. And I really want to
do that episode because well, first off, shotguns are foot
guns and they're dumb, and there's no purpose for him
unless you're breaching doors or shooting birds. Other than that,
the shotguns have no role. I do not agree with

(01:17:54):
that at all. I want to show people shotguns are.
Matter of fact, I got four right there, two thirteen
oh one and nine forty pro and a eight seventy
no five hundred.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
There's there's a seventy about six foot on the other
side of that wall with double block with a vang
barrel in.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
It absolutely viable and it's and I love talking. I
love talking about the reviews of training and events because
it gives people an opportunity to find out what it's about,
and hopefully as they're listening, they realize, oh, this is
something I probably need to attend. When's the next one?
So that's what I'm really hoping. I'm yeah, training's good,

(01:18:35):
get training.

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
Yeah, Let's let's call Cody, Let's call Eric Gellhouse, Let's
call David Cagele, what's called dB.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Sold.

Speaker 2 (01:18:45):
I'll be a fly on the wall because I'm a
nobody with a shotgun, but I would love to be
able to give my experience as the first time shotgun student.

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
So this is why having you on would be even
more important, because that perspective is incredibly valuable to fill
in those blanks because the panel might be talking at
this level and a listener might not be to that
level and they might need some translation, or they might
have a question that you're going to have a you're

(01:19:13):
going to come up with that you're going to present
that the panel doesn't even think about. So I think
that's a fantastic idea. But what about Fisher. Do you
really want Fisher?

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
Well, Fisher told me to say nice things. So maybe
Fisher is just going to bow out and he'll be
the first one to let a new guy take his place. Right.

Speaker 1 (01:19:34):
He's on frequently.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
First I met him. He's such a solid human being.

Speaker 1 (01:19:41):
Yeah, and large.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
Yes, they large.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
There's a reason why he's called Yetti.

Speaker 2 (01:19:50):
Well, I'm going to kill my favorite seat Fisher, just
real quick. I so I was running my fourteen inch
eight seventy zank coomped out with no spacers in a
magpole stock. Well, I'm six one hundred and fifty pounds.
My wings fins pretty long, I got long, lanky horns.
And Steve comes up behind me at night sheet and goes,

(01:20:10):
are you a t Rex? No, you look like one.
Took my gun put his gun in my hand. He said,
does that feel better? I said yeah, and then I'll
text you the comment he made. I'm not going to
say it here, but it was a pretty good one,
and I said, cool, thanks, Steve, I appreciate you. Well.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
He's also one of the people early on that was
talking about with ars having your stock extended, not having
it all the way collapsed. And there's a reason for it.
Good stuff. Well, I'm going to kill the feed and
I'm going to run upstairs, and I believe we're going
to carve pumpkins, because that's what you do the day
before Halloween. We were supposed to do it earlier, but

(01:20:52):
life happens.

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
So I hope they get all the candy.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
Oh and if they don't, we will. We will have
plenty left over for them. So spoiled kids. Well, good deal. Well,
thanks for thanks for the talk.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
Awesome thanks, Matt. I appreciate you. Looking forward to the
next one again. Guys. If you're interested, coolfiretrainer dot com
reach out to us. Reach out to us via email.
I can't answer just about any question uh you've got.
I'm looking forward to working with you guys. Matt. I'm
looking forward to working with you in the future. I
can't wait to see your review on the cool Firesidekick.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
Cool sounds good. Well, then I will talk to you
guys later

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P&S ModCast 443 - CoolFire Trainer

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}P&S ModCast 443 - CoolFire Trainer