P&S ModCast 444 - The AR15 in 2025 - Primary & Secondary Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My day and that that's not Bill Tour.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Yeah, it is Ultimate. So, yeah, we are live. Welcome
to podcast. The episode is four four four. We're going
to be talking about the AR fifteen And this was
actually a suggestion from Matt Dropco which I thought was
a really cool suggestion, basically talking about where we're at
because we've been using these for a long time and

(00:23):
it's cool to see the progression. It's cool to see
where we've been. It's cool to discuss the projection, and
it's cool to see where we're at and all the
different options that are available, all the different roles that
can do the different calibers. So, yeah, this is a
great conversation and we haven't had ash for a while
and this is a great topic to bring them back,

(00:45):
especially with the company he's representing. And then we also
have Brass and then we have hop who's going to
join us?

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Laundry right now is.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
So today's date is November ninth, twenty twenty five. Yeah,
we're near the end of the end of the year.
I think I have a podcast. I think we're doing
a what was it the Shotgun Big Training Event.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
Summation.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Episode is tomorrow Tomorrow night it'll be fun. But this one,
this episode, it's just fun to talk about this stuff.
I'm going to say my favorite thing to say or
before we get into any any meat potatoes, any any
real content, and we're going to have some some nice
banter before we officially start. But I just need to

(01:32):
say my favorite thing, and that is make sure that you,
as the listener or the viewer that you are, you
are supporting those sources that you have found to be beneficial.
What I mean by that is YouTube, all these all
this social media that we use, it's they're all pretty
much anti gun. That's just that's just how it works.

(01:53):
The fact that there might be firearms involved in this
discussion already give us strikes and it's it sucks, but
that's just the reality of where we or of what
we live in right now. When there's content that's produced
that you appreciate, that you might learn from, that you
might help, it might help explain something that you didn't understand,
make sure you give it a like, make sure you
give it a share, especially if it's if it's helping

(02:15):
you understand something a little better. Basically interesting. Plus that's right,
Basically the algorithms aren't working in our favor. So we
really rely on you, the listener of the viewer, and
it doesn't have to be primary and secondary. It can
be anything that you found to be beneficial that's in
the gunnisphere. Make sure you're sharing, make sure you're liking,

(02:36):
make sure you're subscribed, because we are in a battle
right now and we're not really doing so hot and
the platforms that we're trying to use to spread good words,
good messages are not working in our favor. So that's
what I'm going to say right now. Yeah, just support
those sources that you found to be beneficial. So before

(02:56):
we officially or before we get into our nice light banter,
let's get some backgrounds. My name is Matt. I've been
in primary secondary for ten years now doing the cop
thing ash.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
So for those of you guys who don't know me,
it's been a while since I've been on the been
on the podcast, and I've been doing other things. So
I'm Ash has ten years ago, well yeah, almost ten
years ago. We started talking about on primary and secondary.
The new marksmanship manual for the Army a decade ago

(03:30):
TC three two dot nine, and that manual that the
army's running over right now, I was the lead lead
writer on it. A lot of people that were with
primary and secondary with them, and still helped on that manual,
helping clear some stuff out, all that sort of stuff.
Then I left there, went to Knight's Armament. Was it

(03:51):
Knight's Armament until this year Pop Shmokee from now drew
two thousand miles and came out to do the business
development manager at Aul Tour. Everybody uses boltur but.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Wait, how's it pronounced again?

Speaker 3 (04:05):
Ulsar?

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Right, So that's Latin for the Avenger. So third business
development of them. Also, I have a company called Milkore
USA that I'm doing business development for this part of
the Abrams averyworn manufacturing umbrellas in its parent company. So
I left Knights and my my LAMG Belfoed machine gun

(04:28):
behind and picked up a six shot revolving Grnade launcher.
If you've seen Predator, you saw the early version of
that gun. So I went from Belfoed guns to fortyades.
So and then most recently they handed me the four
business development the All Tour Range complex, which is I've

(04:49):
got four pistol bays.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
That go out to you, fifty two rifle bays.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
One of them is one hundred, one of them goes
out to four hundred easily, and can do seven hundred
if we have the entire range. So my job was
to put make that that piece of land bank money.
The first class that we're having there is press check
consulting and that's in February. So getting some good training
down in Tucson. Recoil is doing some stuff out there. Yeah,

(05:17):
and that's what I do now, is I talk about
selling guns. I don't even have to sell guns anymore.
I just talk about selling guns, and I've got other
people that do the do the sales part. So nice.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
So, uh, you you got into revolvers and he's slightly
wonned up to you with the payload of his revolver.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Oh that's perfectly fine. Yeah, hear right.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
Home, though, I'm trying to get one into that.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Apparently the ATF is like not appreciative of having you know, fortimes.
It's just a revolver like.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
This, that's all it is. Yeah, that should be fifty
state legal if anything is.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, exactly exactly. So what in your opinion, what are
the most well known product us from bull tour.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Uh So, to start off, Cass V. Cass V has
been around for a long time. That was that was
a answer to the early GLAT problem. And the early
GLAT problem was we didn't have handguards and we couldn't
take shit off our guns. So cass V was designed
to basically get up strength from having a rail that
went across the top and clamped onto the top of

(06:23):
the receiver, the flat top. So it had a rail
to clamp on the flat top and then the handguard
came off of that and gave you a semi free
floated well being able to keep the delta ring on there.
You just had to pop the handguards off. You could
pop this on and be able to mount stuff to it.
So that was before the Knight's handguard was getting full fielded.

(06:47):
Cass V was kind of floating in that mix, and
you know, didn't have the Nights rail yet it picked
up cass V going from there. You know, there's there's
twenty different iterations of cast. One thing that did come
from from our spots that everybody knows and loves is
this stuff. This isn't a firearm, but uh this stuff

(07:10):
known as KeyMod Key Mood came from our shop and
just found out the other day of the writer actually
was a standard for making KeyMod, but since it was
a license like MLOCK, everybody was doing their own their
own thing. Uh So, I mean you think about Kemo

(07:30):
came out before Mlock, and so that was the first
major negative space mounting as the military calls it.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
And a lot of a lot of.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Things came from keemod. A lot of a lot of
handguards that were out.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
There benefited from KeyMod.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
And you think about as we get into this discussion,
we go from quad rails two more modern rails. Most
of them came out in KEYMOT. So that came that
came out of out of old tour and you know
that that's just that's just some things. And we do
have our vis I'll pop out that was actually a
VIZ hand guard. So this is they call it a polylithic,

(08:10):
So this is actually starts off two pieces rather than
be in a model I think virtual one piece starts
off two pieces, but they get welded together. So that
was like an early early thing. And then obviously our
biggest product is is.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
The A five system, so huge.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, yeah, everybody's got an A five, but all of
those A fives are knockoffs. Some of them are pretty
good knockoffs, and some of them are team right, so
there's a there's another ka K company that is straight.
We took one of those apart the other day and
they are straight team knockoff A five stuff like like

(08:51):
they're they're super terrible. You don't get all the benefits
of A five because A five is way more than
just a longer extension to and a longer buffer. And
that's what a lot of these places are making. So
that's kind of that's kind of where we're sitting. Unfortunately,
most of that stuff is all a decade old or more. Right,
So the stuff I'm talking about tonight right now, the book,

(09:14):
the cast b the A five, that's all that's all
a decade ago, right. So we got some stub brewing
and twenty twenty six is going to be pretty big,
but that's what we're known for, and that's all decade
old stuff. That's why GOAT. When I first started saying
I was coming here, people were like, you're going where?
You know, anybody hasn't been around for the you know,

(09:36):
they might be big now, but if they weren't around
this industry five years ago, they've never heard of us, right,
and then so people that barely came into it, like
ten years ago, when we were kind of coming off
of our peak, they kind of know about it, or
if they've been paying attention, like a five system, they're like, oh,
you guys do other stuff. So yeah, but we're getting

(09:57):
we're getting ready to jump into high gear and fix
all all of that.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
And when I think of all tour, I think of Nick.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, yeah, nickas a Nicka's a national treasure. We tried
to get him on here, but but Nick's Nigga's very
family focused Sundays, So no big deal.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
It's okay, cool brass facts.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Was up.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
Much less impressive. You asked earlier if I knew who
Ash was.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, I used to.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
When I was getting my formative years, I was watching
nothing fancy, but then I graduated to primary and secondary graduation,
I used to get into really get into firearms and stuff.
So I recall watching a lot of a lot of
episodes in the sort of twenty fourteen twenty sixteen give
or take time time period.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
So you know, that's what I meant when I said
I know of you.

Speaker 4 (10:53):
Yeah, you don't know me, but yeah, so I don't
really have anything all the impressive to say.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
I run a YouTube channel. I do a lot of testing.

Speaker 4 (11:02):
On gear, some a little more end usury, but really
kind of in a boring way. So I can add
some to the conversation today. I do appreciate that we
have all three of our sponsors represented. We got Blue Alpha, Venture, Surflus,
and Modern Warriors like all somehow we didn't coordinate.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
Oh, this is just a hat that I like. It
happens to be Blue Alpha.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
That's good enough.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
Yeah, yeah, multiicam black it is.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Hey, we're gonna have to talk about Kurt hold On.
Let me find another.

Speaker 5 (11:33):
As they say, it projects an air of authority, so
it's appropriate for the host to have black multicam.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yes. Oh well, and then we have hop My.

Speaker 5 (11:44):
Spouse, yeah, uh, I arrange Buddies is absolutely obsessed with
Voltaire stuff and has many, many different and historical like examples,
and that that's very important for reasons that only he
knows because of limited production runs or whatever. So every
time I go shooting with him, I get a little

(12:05):
bit of a vultar contact high. Unfortunately, I think he's
out hunting. Otherwise it would have been funny to sub.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Him in.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Much better at talking about that than me. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, there's a bunch of cool stuff, but a lot
of people, unless you're like him, who's like paying hard attention,
a lot of people don't know about it, right, So
they're just they're just a little cool things, not even
like really boutique as I even consider it smaller than that.
They're just they're just little runs. So something looks super
cool and then it disappears kind of because they're still

(12:38):
wanting to make it and I'm trying to cut all
that shit out just because I got to focus on
the new stuff.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
So but we'll see what happens.

Speaker 5 (12:46):
There's probably I mean, this maybe is part of the topic,
I guess, but there's probably a lot of like voltar
DNA in a lot of the ars that people own,
and they have no idea that that's where it came from.
You know, they're just like the ideas a trickle through,
like the A five. Everybody's got an A five equivalent system.
Now people probably you know, B C. M may be

(13:06):
one of the biggest names that's doing an A five
type system, so people might think it came from that.
Like if you don't know, you're just like, oh, that's
a cool idea that I assume has always existed.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
The same thing with keem On.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
People m v CM made Keemo big, right because everybody
was on VCM train and then Kemo dropped and it
was that KMR rail, the one that would melt tinfoil.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
Yeah, it's rail ever made.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, and it's also light though, so it just it
looks great.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
I mean, so is air. So is no handguard. I
mean at some point touch it. So that was one of.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Those no mixed flight gloves, right yeah, and not not
that it was a super bad handguard. It was like
but that's what we were doing at the time, right,
everybody's making their little five and a half pound they
are and putting their Excel sheets up with how little
they're gone the way to.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
So but people.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Associate cheme On with b CM, which which isn't necessarily
a bad thing right now because everybody hates chem On, right,
but all that take the blame for it. But but
it actually came, you know, there's there's a little things
that that that came from it. So and and there's
a story behind that to you because the guy that
made bolt or big. Yeah, I just said it wrong.

(14:22):
But the guy who made us they went to b
C M right, So kerk Yeah, So there's some there,
there's some of.

Speaker 6 (14:30):
That that tie in too, right, And I'm gonna I'm
gonna keep saying volt or uh for the same reason
that I say Bexar Arms instead of bare arms.

Speaker 5 (14:40):
It's like if you if you didn't want me to
put there to say the X, you should not have
put the X in the name.

Speaker 4 (14:44):
So yeah, Ben Ben Steger, Yeah yeah, I mean and
you got to you got to it's recognized, right, yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Or also I don't know you're talking about. That's kind
of like the example that you gave when you when
you talk to people about where you work now yeah
where yeah, full see.

Speaker 5 (15:01):
Oh yeah, if you guys had become, you know, well
known after the Saints Row franchise came out, people would
know because Ultr I think is the is the evil
villain company from from those games. So and that's a
great game. Those are great games, yep, so some of them,
some of them. Yeah, you don't have time to litigate
your preference. In Saints Row right three was really good.

(15:24):
I don't remember that you drink it. Most importantly, though,
going back to Keemod. Keemod really did if you think
about it.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Back in the day, it was reialed handguards and with
that came more more, more weight, it was bulkier, and
yeah it did pick that was a that was a standard.
And what Chemod did is it slim line things and
cave people ideas, Oh I like this, I like this
to be lighter, I like this to be slimmer. And
there's definitely there's absolute merit there.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
I do want to interject.

Speaker 4 (15:55):
Everyone always forgets the very short time frame between uh
like quad rails in there as the only option in
mlock slash Chemod, but there was a very short timeframe
where we had handguards with backers that you had to
use like chopsticks to hold in place and then drive
us screw in from the front.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
And I thought that was funny because I just did.

Speaker 4 (16:15):
A review of the q Fix with their q cirt
and they're bragging about how this is the hottest thing
since who knows, you know, whatever they use over there,
and it's like this is literally just like a like
a like Samsung Eva rail or a and I have
one of those, yeah, a Troy Alpha rail where you
back you have to hold the backer in place while
you put the screw in, and it's those things they're

(16:36):
not going anywhere.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
But man, did that suck.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
They're also not selling anymore.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (16:41):
One of my first builds was the alg rail and
it was there V I think it was the V
zero E or something like that. So it had like
this like big like wishbone shaped bracket that you had
to sort of fish inside the handguard and then both
the rail sections in.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, and then you have yet you had a little
bit of a little bit of stuff like the uh
like the Knights three point long stuff where they would
cut off basically they took the quadrail and cut it
down or swim on the sides. And then you had
some other but you had the ability to screw another
bullshit from there, which you had the little tea nuts
and all the other other crap that was on there,

(17:19):
you know. So it's just that that transition, you know,
going from the big quadraills and the one question I
always to add as an army guy, uh, those that
I didn't mention that I did twenty two years in
the army and got my first I think I got
my first Knight's handguard in probably ninety eight and Knights

(17:43):
and everybody else that made a handguard at the time
didn't bother to round any of the edges, just a
little bit of champer on the pig standing right.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
So that rail not only was.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
Heavy and bulky, but when you got your hand on
it for twenty hours a day, it's just sawing through
your gloves are your hand or you know whatever it was.
You know, there's a survival saw. You could set it
on a two by four and cut up.

Speaker 5 (18:06):
Yeah, game, yes, yeah, Those nice rails are really sharp
because I, you know, more or less used to like Midwest,
and Midwest spends a lot of time like deburring and
smoothing down all the all the you know, corners of
their pick rails and their quad rails are much nicer
to hold. And then I finally got my hands on
a real like surplus Night's rail to put on something.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
I was like, this could be so sick.

Speaker 5 (18:29):
It has those those blank spaces at the front sides
where the where you have to pinch in order to
assemble it, so you lose rail estate at the front,
and then every single slot was razor sharp, Like this
freaking sucks. I can't believe I waited like four years
to find one of these in stock.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, but then then they start.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah. Then then the covers that you'd get, right, because
not everybody's making covers.

Speaker 3 (18:50):
Meg Paul was fairly small, right.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
But the covers that you could get, like I remember,
I remember two thousand and six looking for hangout covers
that weren't freaking as thick as the night ones and
the ones that round are like c AA and they
were rubber, rubber and terrible, but they were smoother than
or smaller than the night stuff, smoother than the bare handguard,
and they're just like this just fucking sucks, right, But

(19:14):
that's when we started putting for again vertical four grips
on because the vertical foe grip was literally because you
couldn't hold onto the rail with all the bullshit on
it where it was, you know, got so much girth
to it you can't even pull onto it. So then
they started using vertical foe grips. So it was just
a it was just a thing, and was the handguards
got slimmer and longer. Then we started using handstops, and
then we got angered four grips, and it's all just

(19:36):
a little yeah, a little weird adaptations to ship.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
I mean you could, you could take it a step
further because it's it's we're going circular on the handguards again, right,
Because handguards came out and they were the delta ring,
which wasn't amazing for holding zero and then you know,
you move into some of the beef your stuff. And
then there was the trend to make the handguards as
light as possible, and now they used to be screwed
into the barrel nut, but that was too hard for

(20:01):
people to figure out. Now they're all friction fit. Now
we're coming back around again with the heaviest damn handguards
you've ever seen that are just friction fit with extra steps.
And uh yeah, I look forward to when people discover
you could just screw something into the handguard into the
barrel nut again and we've gone full circle correctly.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, now they're now they're doing you know because like
I think LaRue started it, and then Danny d went
on board and then now we're now we're now we
got a complete new forging to to hook the handguard
into you that doesn't touch the barrel nut and like there, yes,
there's games in there, but they're they're micro games, right,

(20:41):
because they're doing all the stuff to make the make
the handguard really stiff, and then they're still putting a
barrel in there. The shoots three minutes and they're like,
we're doing this for accuracy, and be like, well, why
didn't you put that into the effort into the barrel
a little bit there, Bud.

Speaker 4 (20:54):
So all this because no one wants to time a
barrel nut.

Speaker 5 (20:59):
Yeah, that's probably a really big component of it, is
the like explosion of diy ar builds. You know, like
I don't know exactly how this was before I got
into you know, gun stuff or whatever, but once you'd
be able to order every single individual part from like
Midway Primary Arms, whatever, those kind of websites.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
People want to build stuff.

Speaker 5 (21:19):
They want to build it over time because then they
can pay a couple bucks here and there. And so
I guess I think you do see the AR as
a platform become more builder friendly with those like those handguards,
Like you know, I love those alg handguards. You had
to time the barrel nut, you had to shim it
or whatever, but once you got it installed, the handguards
bolted straight into the barrel nut. It's incredibly rock solid,

(21:41):
seemed like a really great system. It just was a
pain in the ass to install, and it was easy
to screw it up. You know, same thing with trying
to install your own, like a classic GI barrel nut.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Nobody wants to do that.

Speaker 5 (21:52):
If someone else is building a gun for you, they've
got the tools and expertise to do it one hundred
times in a day, no problem. When you're building it
on your own, then you want the midway one because
you just crank that to the torquepeck window, which is massive.
It's like, yeah, there's a forty foot pound window of
torque for for a Midwest barrel nt or something like that.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
You know.

Speaker 5 (22:09):
And for a while they were even like you should
put blue lock tight between the barrel nut and the handguard.
And at some point they were like, ah, you know,
I forget, it doesn't matter, but those are so much
easier to install.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
But then, you know, you lose a lot of a
lot of that ability.

Speaker 5 (22:23):
I know, brass had the anti rotation tab break off
of a handguard and then the things started moving on otating,
Like you're relying a lot on those just the tiniest
little nubbins of aluminium to keep that thing all solid
or whatever versus that alg rail, which I don't know.
What do you have to do to get one of
those things to cut loops? You're gonna have to shear

(22:44):
six hex screws at the same time in order to
make that thing rotate.

Speaker 4 (22:50):
I think it's I think it's interesting because we're all
talking about like night vision is kind of going out
of vogue at least from the consumer perspective. But there's
all that talk about this the laser hole zero does
the front end old? Zero is the raid? Is the
rail rigid? Is the rail going to move on you?
And at the end of the day, every single or
not every single that, like i'd say ninety five percent
of rails on the market are fundamentally the exact same thing,

(23:11):
which is a smooth barrel nut handguard slips on and
then it torques on and those are not going to
hold zero in the same way when you fucking eat
shit with your sling at two in the morning against
the slippery ass rock because you got it from content
for YouTube.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
Compared, Yeah, everybody can relate to that, bro.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah, is this no experience?

Speaker 4 (23:32):
No, this has never happened to me. I go to
bed at a good time, like my mom told me to.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
So that's good. Well, I remember back of the early
DIY days of air fifteens, it seemed like there were
only so many options, There were only so many stocks.
There was the CTR. There was an old tour, wasn't there?
There was a if I wasn't B five was around.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, and you had a whole bunch of like the
Israeli stuff uff and you know some you know, the
typical car fifteen stock. But but there was there was
out there.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
Now you can get on that. I mean there's out
there for everything. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
And then the guards yeah, and that.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Then there's somebody just three printing any accessory that you
could need for that stock.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
It's just it's just crazy.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
And one of one of the things that that we
found were Knights found. I keep saying we when it
comes to Knights, but the handguard got so stiff, right,
and this one, this one's another one that the u
X six and u EX four nights stuff, you know,
some some of the guysly stuff, not early guysly stuff,
but some of the more modern guysly stuff. The handguard

(24:46):
interface has gotten so stiff that you're actually getting flex
inside the receiver because the receiver is a U shape, right,
it's sicked in the back, it's sicked in the front.
But with the with the and I call I call
most of the handguards. And this is one, you know,
the one that's on this gun. I'm touching gum. So
you're how you're fired fired from YouTube. But I call

(25:08):
these hose clamberiles. And that's that's what we're talking about.
Where it's got the squid barrel nut. You slide it
on there and you clamp it down. It's basically like
a hose clamp, right, And this is really yeah, very well, And.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
That's that's just how it work.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yeah, you're squishing aluminum onto an aluminum or titanium or
whatever whatever their marketing play is on that in that
barrel nut. And there's not enough wheelbase on that barrel nut,
and there's not enough aluminum moving to really get that
thing as stiff as as you can. Right, But at

(25:45):
some point it's going to lock, right, even if it shifts,
is going to get that apply that torque. So you're
actually getting the receiver that's doing this, so you're still
getting flex. Right. So and that that's just you know,
when how accurate do I need this gun?

Speaker 3 (26:02):
What am I actually have happening on here?

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Right? My laser is a holl of sun laser. All
of sun does really good for what that laser needs
to do. It needs to sit around and be ready
for for any kind of home defense. And if I
go play with the night vision out at the range,
it needs to do stuff right. So if I fall
down my laser that was not super expensive, it was
probably gonna break and lose zero anyway, regardless of my

(26:28):
handguard does right. So so the but if you're just
running a flashlight on it, the flashlight's not zero, it's
got a got super big throw and you know, a
hotspot on it, So it doesn't matter exactly where that
shit's at.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Right, And it's just so it's it's mission.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
And arguments about how important that handguard is and how
stiff it needs to be.

Speaker 5 (26:53):
I think that might have been a somewhat temporary obsession, like,
you know, people were getting really wrapped around the axle
of oh I need this to hold does that rail
hold zero? You're like, what do you mean by that?
You know, but I had that frustration. I bought a
p s a saber upper and they're trying to use
high end components, So what did they do. They went
with the most expensive handguard they could find, which is
a Hodge Hodge branded maybe it's produced by zeb or whatever,

(27:15):
but it's there. It's their new Uh I think it's lochlocklock.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
That something.

Speaker 5 (27:19):
They had drive lock and then they had pinchlock. And
the handguard is an abomination. It's so heavy, it's so thick,
it's it's insane. And then at the end of the
day it's still just clamped around a barrelnut. And unlike
a lot of the other.

Speaker 4 (27:32):
Under recoil over time as well, you don't even need
the fall forget.

Speaker 5 (27:35):
Yeah, and unlike some of the earlier I have a
build that I put together using a drivelock rail which
has an indexing pin between the upper receiver and the handguarden. Like, well,
that's a nice touch, Like that's that's a much more
elegant or you know, more robust way of applying anti
rotation versus the little, you know, tiny tabs. They added

(27:55):
a bunch of weight to that pinchlock rail and I'm
looking at the design and I'm not a I'm not
an engineer, not much of a science guy, but I'm
looking at that. I'm like, people talk about the Arrow
Atlas system, and as far as I can tell, it
does exactly the same thing as you pinch, as you
pull the two wedges together, it pinches the handguard together,

(28:15):
and then it also pushes it back against the receiver.
I like, it's all applying the same force in the
same directions, whether it's you know, pinching at the top
of the barrel nut like bcm kmars or the new
Arrow mod fores or both, you know, top of the
barrel nut the bottom like Midwest Arrow autlets like man,
it's all the same thing.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
So I don't know.

Speaker 5 (28:38):
I probably put too much emphasis on that in the past,
you know, talking about like how cool it was that
Arrow did that enhance thing where you could, you know,
polt the handguard into an extension on the upper but
you end up with a really fat, uncomfortable handguard. And
I don't know it matters because I've never managed to
lose the zero of.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
My handguard on it any era or built.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Right.

Speaker 5 (29:02):
Ron manages to lose the zero on all of the
lasers he's ever shot with because he hits on stuff.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
Yeah, I mean that's just kind of the like, all
lasers have some degree of wandering zero just because it
uses slightly different mechanisms. Your moles, your rduxes, young gals
we played with, there is a slight bit of wandering zero.
And then you add in the handguard and you have
a little bit more. And it's just kind of the
cost of doing business. And you can you conspire a
rifle out of control to really clamp that in, but

(29:29):
then you have to ask yourself like how far is
this laser really pushing out?

Speaker 1 (29:32):
Right?

Speaker 3 (29:33):
And and how far?

Speaker 1 (29:34):
How far are you pushing it out with that laser? Right?
So and that's that's that's something that that nobody wants
to talk about. What they're you know, they're getting there
what is it the Concordia or Concora fuck and whatever.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
And they buy their twenty.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Thousand dollars nods for five hundred dollars a month.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
Yeah, and then and.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
What financing Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a financing program
starts with to see it.

Speaker 4 (29:59):
Oh, that's a finance if there.

Speaker 5 (30:03):
Yeah, it's like services, Come on, man, it's on evil.
You just got to subscribe to it.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
And they put their nods on right, and they've got
no illuminators that they might have illuminator on the laser right,
and there's one x and I spent well, I was
on nods from probably nineteen ninety five. I've been through
all the generations of knobs and the nods on your head.
Go out to about on a good night. Now, we've

(30:31):
had Superman in the past couple of nights, right, so
you might be able to see three hundred there, But
on most nights where you've got like thirty or twenty,
you know, twenty thirty percent on loom, you can see
about one hundred and fifty yards. That's great, and you
and you and you're shooting at a dude sized target generally, right,
we're not doing sniper stuff right because the snipers have
their own night vision PBS thirty that they do sniper

(30:55):
shit with. So you're like, Okay, how much space do
I really need? How much how much error can I
induce into the system to hit a man sized target
at that one hundred and fifty two hundred where I
can actually see it? But eighty percent and I say
this as being an industry guy, eighty percent of the
ship that that people wrab holes that we go down,

(31:16):
whether it's handguards or whatever, it's all marketing bullshit, right,
and it's and I do it, I write it. I
work on marketing strategies, like I'm doing it to people, right,
but I understand that that that's what it is. Right,
So my handguard can't move, it's shifting. I mean, need

(31:37):
this more high speed handguard than the next guy's, Like
I got it was much better handguard just for this one,
you know, I got I got test out of from
when I was in the army from Guisley that one
of the guysly handguards moved more than a regular barrel
then for which moved just about the same as a
as A as a RAS because it's not free floated, right,

(31:59):
But the guys that had guard was moving more with
that testing than the than the night ship or having
no handguard at all. Right, So but then they go
down the saying my handguard is better, my handguard is better,
my hand guard is better, and then then they go
to my lasers better. You know, it's just all all
marketing stuff. And then then but nobody's applying reality to it, yeah,

(32:23):
Like like nobody's just saying, you know, what, I'm putting
a sure fire flashlight on this on this gun, and
I could. I could literally because before all this they
did have Picatinny sections. Before everybody got handguards on their
on their army guns and their their g D guns,
there was pic continuing sections that you could put into

(32:45):
the clamshell handguards. And it was I don't even know
what that mounting system was. It was like it was
like a bar that had holes in it, Like the
more fancy ones had a little little hole in her,
little little little nipple on it that would actually put
it into the handguard and it fit fairly well.

Speaker 5 (33:04):
I got some of those from GG and G for
like all retrog it is, it's a washer and a
nut and as you tighten it, the washer deforms to
the inside of the heat shield because it's a flat
washer against the curved heat shield.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
And as you tighten it, like I mean, there's only
so much it can do.

Speaker 5 (33:21):
That's a really inelegant Uh yeah, why not just those
clamps at that point?

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, and I could take but I could take that
big ass sure Fire that everybody had to have, the
big ass Surefire handguard. One hundred and fifty twelve Candela
a light hand grip that everybody had to have and
you know two thousand and nine, thanks Chris Costa. But
we could put that on that on that little G

(33:47):
G and G picatiny section and it would do the
same fucking basic things as most of.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
These other handguards that are out there.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Right. So but we got to clown that guy from
being a poor and just be like, oh, I don't
get a handguard who'd being a poor? Stop being poor?
Buy more money, right, because that's the marketing side that's
trying to get you to buy new ship.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (34:05):
And it was already like it had already been solved
because the original deployment kits with the Pack four and
the Peck two had a barrel clamp would attached to
the barrel, and then it had free standing posts that
went up through the venting holes in the in the
clamshell handguard, so it didn't touch the handguard at all.
All you had to do was tape your your switch
somewhere on the handguard. Your switch doesn't have to hold zero,
and the laser's attached to the barrel, and if if

(34:28):
something attached directly to the barrel loses zero, then something's
fucking wrong.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
So yeah, yeah, and then but then left. Yeah, but
then those lasers would wander if you looked at them sideways.
Too much heat came from your eyeballs. And we've made
the laser fucking move. You don't want to look at
them in the front.

Speaker 5 (34:45):
That might Yeah, I don't know how Insight got away
with making a plastic laser for forty years.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah, And that's that's with you know, to go with
the you know where the.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Air fifteen is? Damn, where are we in the marketing cycle?
Like what are we trying to market? What are we
what are we trying to do right? And that and
that kind of kind of steers everything. And what a
few of us have been talking about is the I

(35:22):
call it the glot marketing. And that's that's where you
take a guy that was, you know, he's a little
bit stacked, muscle muscle bound guy looked like he was
Special operations, even though that there's no thing that says
you look like special operations.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
But you put him in, put him in cool kit,
you put him in night.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
Vision and a helmet, and it looked like a range
of regimen commercial and he is running around with your gun, right,
and that era of marketing is dead. Yeah, but if
you look, people are still doing it, right, They're they're
still on the on the glot marketing scheme and they're
they're like, they're throwing the ship up, and that's not

(35:58):
who the customer is now.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
So they're throwing the shit up.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
And they're just like, oh, it's a slump and the
Trump slump, and I can't sell anything and I'm losing
my company. You're like, well, you look at your marketing man.
You're you're you're marketing to you, you know, ten years ago.
You're not just fighting the last war. You're marketing to
ten years ago, because there's there's no war on right now.
When the war was at his height, and everybody wanted
to be a special special operations ninja, a freaking scuba

(36:24):
steve guy. What a scuba Steve carrying? Oh he's got
this right, and then they would you know, post it
on on you know, like NASCAR, they see special.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
Operations guys running it.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Then it would sell on Monday, right and that next week,
and that's just not it's not working anymore, right, So.

Speaker 5 (36:44):
We had the the skater operator era of marketing, like
forward Observations Group did a lot of that stuff where
it was like plane closed plus plate carriers plus skateboard
somehow I don't know, Uh, casual shoes. There will be
one Nirobi. You probably get that a lot longer than
it should have been. And then there was There's also
been the the degenerate like hot Chicken nods, bikini plus

(37:08):
nods marketing, which works for some companies better than others.
Noveski seems to be surviving off of it.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
I don't know how about those comment sections.

Speaker 5 (37:15):
Yeah, it doesn't seem popular, and yet clearly they're selling
four thousand dollars rifles with it, so you can't be
all that bad.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
But but how many are they sell on there? They're
sell on two of them, only need to.

Speaker 5 (37:26):
Sell two a year, and they're they're in the black.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Whatever I can to do, right, So and that's what
But that's what you know, we're like. And I'd like
to remind Nick every day that that one day how
far Shot Show is way? So I keep the Shot
Show the page open because they've got a little countdown timer.
So we're like seventy one and a half days from
Shot Show. So we're going to start seeing what everybody

(37:53):
thinks the market is getting ready to do right now.
And you know, just just in a lot of lot
and talking to a lot of dudes, and I've got
biased because I've got a company that's called Quantified Performance
that have been around for six years.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
It's gassed in competition, you know, do shooting.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
From one eight hundred yards. So a lot of those
guys are looking at precision rs and that's where six
Art came from, and you know that sort of thing
where they those are getting popular and Quantify forms and
by no means the only ones that's out there that's
doing this, but people are just you know, and I

(38:32):
just watched this ship. I just think that right now,
people are just interested. If they're going to buy something,
which is a big if, but if they're going to
buy something, it's going to be something that's generally just
a good performing rifle, right, And they're not going to
buy it because Scuba Steve has it. They're going to
buy it because of brand reputation. They're going to buy
it for you know, demonstrated high performance, right because one

(38:55):
of the things has been floating around forever that a
lot of people don't want to do and I think
I think these guys actually hate that they do it.
But Wilson Combat has been putting a one minute guarantee
on their rifles for I don't know, fifteen years, twenty years.
And when they advertise the rifle at Princes Amena, right,

(39:15):
and of course they got they had to put fine
print on it at Princes Amena with this ammunition with
this load, right. But I just think that that's what
people are. People are looking for is a demonstrated high
quality rifle because they're not going to buy three in
a year. They're going to buy one, and they might

(39:35):
not buy one for another two or three years. So
they say they want the most value. I mean, they're
they're kind of shopping like the army and the government does.
They look around at all the things and then they
look at the most value for what they get for
their dollar. Right, it's not necessarily the cheapest gun. And
people are like, oh, people just want to buy a
six hundred dollar AR. No, they want to buy an

(39:56):
AR that's going to last them to do with the
things that they think that they're going to do with it,
and they're not necessarily they would like it to be
six hundred Bucks, but they understand what that quality gun
is going to be more. And I just think that's
where the customers are right now, and not necessarily just
because they're shooting competition with it. It's just they're looking

(40:17):
at it more as an investment now than they are
looking at it it being a thing. Right. I see that,
I see competition shooters. I see that the cloners, but
that everything the cloners are buying has already been made
and sold at least once. Like, that's not that's not manufacturing,
like anybody has done a like And I thought it
was a super cool idea when like Troy and Brown

(40:40):
els and even FN when did there they did those lines.
They were the you know, the bringbacks, right because Troy
and Brown Houston does gun and I thought those would
sell fairly well. But that's not the coloner guys. The
cloner guy wants to wants the experience of cloning the

(41:00):
rifle one finding that Maytex site that was fucking terrible
the entire time it was existence. But because the gun
he's cloning had a MATEX site on it, he's tracking
down at you know that that that rush of finding
that part that you've been looking for forever and finding
an actual o G part. It is part of that

(41:22):
clon when you when you go buy that gun, Like
I say, I was like, I think that's a pretty good,
damn good idea.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Those are going to sell really well, and they don't.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
They don't, so and that that's just that's just where
so where it's going to go for you know, for
Shot Show twenty twenty six, I think you're just going
to see the guns that are selling are just solid, performing,
well built, aesthetically pleasing guns, yep. Right. And it's like,

(41:53):
and this is by no means because these were designed together,
but this was my Knight suppressor that's on there, and
it's it's hard to see, but the gap that's on
that suppressor of that handguard and as the all Tour
handguard and then through a.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Knight's can on it.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
But that gap when it's put together is esthetically pleasing.
Does it mean anything? No, as long as it's not touching,
that's all that they give a shit about. Right.

Speaker 5 (42:19):
But I've often said that flushedness is next to godliness, right,
placid what?

Speaker 1 (42:26):
But I think that's what people are looking for and
and quality quality anadizing right us. You look at Sun's
Liberty Gun, and the Sun's de Liberty Gun has a
nice not not super glossy, but the anidizing on a
Sun's Liberty gun is is sexy. Right when it shows up,

(42:49):
it looks good. It's not all splotchy, it's not purple,
it's not all dried out like a Knight's gun. Because
a Night's gun shows up and you gotta it looks
like it's been deanidizing. You know, got dehydraate fan guns
look purple, right, and that just doesn't look like the
handadizing is good. Right, So that's does this thing look good?

(43:10):
Does it look like it's quality? And yeah, I just
don't think. And I just left a company for eight
years that I was trying to get people to buy
three thousand dollars freaking five five six guns, and I
just don't think that that's that sustainable. You could have
one in your line, but you need to have that

(43:31):
fifteen to eighteen hundred dollars version in your product line
on that's going to move way more than that three
thousand dollars gun.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
Well, I think this is where for me personally, people
like brass and hop where this is where they shine
where they're showing the consumer, Hey, this is what we're
looking at, this is what we're doing, this is what
we're using. These are the results where regular people. This
is what you should expect, not the as you said,
the Scuba Steve or the specops dude. No, these are

(43:59):
real people testing stuff out and this is this is
what we're actually going through. And personally, for me, that's yeah,
that is appealing. That's it's nice to see the reality
of oh there's a malfunction or the magazine just fell apart.
Oh well that sucks, and it's not that that's happens.

Speaker 5 (44:16):
But and there's kind of like a one two munch
with shot Show where like every year at shot Show,
I'm interested to see what the companies think is happening.
And then the second go round is the comments on
the videos that we do at shot Show. So you
very clearly identify a theme or a trend. Every time
you go to a shot show, I think you're like, oh,
I guess this year we're doing we're doing lever guns again,

(44:39):
lever guns. And then you see the comments and you
see how people respond to that. And sometimes I think
with lever guns, I feel like The response was surprisingly positive.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
People were like, oh, that's so cool.

Speaker 5 (44:48):
Lever guns, well no one ever had before since the
late nineteenth century. But other times they're just yeah, they're
just brutally like who thought this was a good idea?

Speaker 3 (44:59):
Whoever wanted this?

Speaker 1 (45:00):
I can't you do it?

Speaker 3 (45:00):
And you're like, well, there you go.

Speaker 5 (45:02):
You gotta gamble, you gotta you gotta get all your stuff,
all your ducks in a row before this biggest show
of the year, and then you put it all out
there and then the comments come back and people like
I hate you. You're like, wow, damn, we thought that
was gonna kill and it is our company.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Yeah, and that's one of the things that Nice did
this and both tours is guilty of it, and we're
that's one of the things that we're fixing. Is you
look at all the videos and you go around and
you look at a video for a Nice armament KS
one right. KS one is a is a bad ass, fucking,
super cool gun. Right you put it up And I

(45:39):
saw this on the gb RS video. Well that that
poor video. There's like seven hundred comments on it, and
probably six hundred of them were foxig because I had
absolutely nothing to do with the video because the video
is all night stuff.

Speaker 5 (45:56):
But GBRS kind of tied themselves to the mast of Zig,
which has a strong move.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Yeah, it's a bold move. We'll see how it works
out for them. But uh so, you know, people are
just like, we'll never know if that's a cool gun,
right because the nights is very very rare. I mean
I was talking about that gun for the past five
years and it still hasn't gone to say a commercial yet.
So they're like, they're like, who cares a super cool gun?

(46:25):
I will never see it. So and then we put
stuff out like that, like that Biz hand guard. We've
talked about it, we've talked about a hamlocked version, and
we still haven't put out the mlock version of it. Right, So,
when you talk about something a shot show or leading
up to shot show, and people are expecting to be

(46:48):
able to buy it, like they should be able to
leave your booth at shot show and pull up their
phone when they get to either signal or Wi Fi
and go onto your website and order it right your dealers.
Your dealers should roll in there and when your dealer
stops by the booth or you go buy one of
your dealer's boost. They should be able to be like hekay, hey, man,

(47:11):
now that I got this in my hand, here's a
po for thirty or thirty thousand of these things, right,
and then companies that are like, oh yeah, well it's
coming man, Like you know that you're not getting away
with that anymore, right, So social media is too.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
Big to pull that shit off, right, And you.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Know two thousand and five, two thousand and seven, you know,
even as lays like twenty fifteen, if you talked about
something at shot Show, the next Shot Show is rolling
around before the mass has heard about your.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
Stuff, and pages like you guys is on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
That stuff is popping immediately and it's got popular. Something
goes viral, people are like I want that, and then
you're like, I don't have it.

Speaker 5 (47:56):
Right.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
You might get a get a six week you know
kind of window or people like that, but if you
haven't put it out by summer, interest is gone, right,
and you show up with that same ship at shot
Show and you're just like, check out the blah blah
blah blah blah blah, and they're just like, fuck you,
I wanted to buy it last year. And and then
that that's what that's what kills you, right, And if
your other marketing shitty, the marketing that you are getting

(48:18):
from other people that's doing it correctly, then then you
can get that effects from it and then that and
and that's all like self sabotage, you know what I mean.
It is just you know that the market was there,
you reached it, and you didn't you didn't capitalize on
that hype cycle seems really short now, probably social media,

(48:41):
you know, YouTube attention deficit disorder that everybody's got NOWT
But yeah, that is really impressive when you do like
a booth thing at chat show and you're like, so
when can I expect this to be available?

Speaker 5 (48:52):
And they're like, go to our website today, and you're like,
I don't. I don't see the back end of this,
but I bet you guys are making sales as opposed
to the guys who were like, we're looking for a
quarter three release and you're like, okay, so that doesn't
mean plus two reas it might mean quarter four or
might mean quarter one next year. And yeah, like there's
there was a lot of stuff at Shot Show, like
probably two years ago that showed up a week before

(49:13):
Shot show this last year and it's like ah, man, like, yeah,
the hype was there. You got to you gotta be careful.
I'm sure sometimes they probably think it's about to happen
and then it doesn't for other reasons. So maybe sometimes
it's just like a Wow, we totally thought we had
it and we don't.

Speaker 4 (49:29):
Worth noting the customer is getting relatively way more adept
at seeing through a lot of seeing through a lot
of bullshit, and you you kind of touched on it
with the consumer really honing in on that value brand
ar like they get that. I mean, obviously there's the
PSA loyalists, but for those that are really serious about
this stuff, no, they can get it done with a

(49:51):
you know, eighteen hundred, you know, twelve hundred to agent
under dollar rifle with a decent mid level glass and
you know, if it's two mla one point five them
away like that's good enough for the task at hand
of pushing out to any reasonable range. So you see
a lot of fatigue right now with stuff that is
beyond the bare bones. It's like you really have to

(50:11):
justify a capability for raising the price at all because
people are really tight on the wallet, right now like
really tight more than anytime in recent memory on the
wall right now, and they came off of the biggest
fucking boom cycle of the in the gun industry, you know,
since Obama. So like people are are people are really

(50:32):
looking for excuse to hate shit right now. So like you,
you don't justify a capability like they know how to
call out that bullshit either vicariously through people that have
tested and they follow and listen to, or through own
personal experience.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
So you see a lot of that.

Speaker 4 (50:46):
You see something like I don't know, the Hopp's favorite thing,
the scope switch just came out right, and that is
like the posters child of something that people they're fuck
that not for five hundred four hundred dollars or whatever.
They've decided that that thing is dumb shit and that.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
It doesn't matter.

Speaker 4 (51:04):
Anymore, like that thing is in doing and bad shit
the past.

Speaker 5 (51:07):
You can tell when people are just generally kind of
pissed off.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
I think we have a bit of.

Speaker 5 (51:11):
That right now, Like yeah, even hardship and people just
angry in general because there's this this duality of opinion
where people are like this industry sucks, there's no innovation,
and then every innovative product.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
They're like, this is a stupid gimmick. Why would anybody
buy this? You're like, yeah, you're just not in.

Speaker 5 (51:27):
The mood, which is totally acceptable, but like, yeah, I mean,
it must be really hard to be a marketing guy
being like I don't get what these people want. They
said they want innovation, that we innovated, and they shit
on us. They said they wanted just a good quality product.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
We made that.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
They're like, wow, it's so stale, like stale.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
So well, this is just like when we discussed with Kemo. Yeah,
it's and it reminds me of how we discuss chemod
earlier and right now, do I want chemod on a rifle?
Not necessarily at the time. Was it innovative?

Speaker 5 (51:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (51:55):
And it allowed.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Things to the key mood anywhere? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (52:01):
But did it did allow for advancement?

Speaker 3 (52:04):
Absolutely?

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Should we recognize that, Yeah, we probably should go ahead.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
Fatigue is the word, right, it is.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Its just and and it's across across the board on
a lot of things, like people are just you know,
they're and that's the go out marketing. They're they're tired
of seeing you know, how many times when I see
a dude get out of a pilaris or a helicopter, right,
And it's just like like fatigue is like like like
the best word that that I've that I've heard applied
to it. And but that's exactly what it is. And

(52:38):
so your marketing and your products need to need to,
you know, not necessarily cut through that fatigue, but it
needs to be accounted in your marketing that that people are.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Tired of seeing it.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Right, And our Shot Show, I'll tell you guys, are
our Shot Show plan.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
We're introducing an entire new team.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Right, all the gun that I'm taking the Shot Show
or the guns that were there last year, there is
absolutely nothing new. The one thing, the newest thing that
we have is that that Upward, that's the special Projects Upward.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
They're on the website right now.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
We're gonna have one of those there just because that's
it's on the website, right, And that's the that's that's
like the newest thing that we've got. So we're introducing
the team, right, and we're gonna be talking about the team.
We're gonna be doing stuff to get people to know
that the people that are there, they're.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
Gonna be some stuff about me. There's gonna be stuff
about Nick. There's gonna be stuff about you know, our guys.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Shane that we've got, and we're gonna be introducing the
team and all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
Just because.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
The way I feel about it, the way everybody else
feels about it, like we buy stuff from either people
we trust, people we know, or guys that we think
are cool.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
Right, So we're.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Introducing the team just so you can, you know, kind
of get to know us. Maybe you think we're cool,
maybe we don't, uh, but that that's that's what I've
got to show. That's what the show is about, and
talking about what the what the next year is going
to bring, because we're doing a lot of ship over
the next year. But the CEO's guidance is no promises.

(54:15):
And what that means is when I talk about a product,
you can go buy it right it's there. It's not
coming in three weeks, it's not coming in fucking whatever.
Or when we start talking about it, we're like, hey,
we've got this thing. The musclem devices aren't here yet.
The rest of the gun is built, the musclem advices
are not here. As soon as the muscle advice is

(54:35):
get on there here's the here's the tracking number if
you want to watch these muscle advices, and there's muscle
advice to get on there. These guys are going to
handle these muscle avices on and they're going to be
on the website, right, so that that's the way products
are going to be dropping. Because then this rolls into
the comment that that's on there that the industry needs
to get away from Shot Show and.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
It starts shot Con just for the fans.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
Yeah, and see one of those it's called and it's
a little weird.

Speaker 5 (55:03):
Yeah, but they costs there, so it's not the past time.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
The big shows and and this is you know, a
decade of experience with the big shows when before social
media got to the saturation of it's at now, Shot
Show was the only place then that That's why it
was in January, so it was right at the beginning
of the of the of the calendar fiscal year. You

(55:31):
could drop all your stuff at shot Show and there
would be.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
People to see it.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
And it was all about dealers because there wasn't a
lot of outside people at shot Show right in the
early days. It was all dealers and distributors and that's
who went and they would they would drop their orders
for it so they would have product throughout the year.
And then you build a shot show right now. If
I've got a good social media team and I finished

(55:56):
up a product tonight, had the guys working over the
weekend and finished a product night, and I could drop
it on Instagram tomorrow or ship it off on the
ups and it gets on you guys channel throughout this week.
I go, hey, give me, you know, here's extra money.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
Get give me.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Give me a short. As soon as you get this
gun and get it out of that get it out
of your gun store, right and go give me a
short on it. So I might have viral on it
by the end of the week. And I just finished
it up tonight, and I've got my annual sales started,
you know, And I can do that the fourth of July,

(56:34):
I can do that, you know, the fifteenth of September,
I can I can do that whenever that I want, you, right,
And so the big shows are but there they're the
they're the least value money spent.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
And that's across the board for the company because.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
I go and I spend a million dollars to go
to a shot show, and I sell fourteen dollars worth
of shit right, or I could spend you know.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
Just just asteaming.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Let's you know, put it on your channel, say we
work that deal, and that's ten grand, and I get,
you know, out of that ten grand, I get six
weeks worth of I get a long form video. I
get you know, four or five short term videos. I
get a couple of posts on all your channels. I
get it on there. You guys do a nicer review
of it. All that sort of shit right paid for it.
I don't know if you guys are doing it for
money or not, but that's the typical social media thing, right.

Speaker 3 (57:31):
We're not We're not that good.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
That was That was a yeah, that's a big thing.

Speaker 5 (57:36):
Well let's let's talk afterwards.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Yeah, I like for exact that.

Speaker 5 (57:41):
Yeah, well you've definitely I think noticed this the last
couple of years, where like companies realize, hey, ore, you know,
our official Twitter account, which is run by some millennial
with a market degree who's funny and relatable like that
gets more eyeballs in a day than our entire shot
show presence will get us in the in the week
of shot show. So all these companies are you know,

(58:02):
doing their own product launch announcements in the week's running
up to Shot Show, which then for like me, I
feel like, why am I even going to Vegas because
I hate that town. I'm just going to Vegas to
be like, oh look it's old news. Oh look some
more old news. Wow, so awesome. Time to go back
to my patients. So maybe all these companies are just yeah,
it's like I've retrade show that shows up in Vegas.
It's an excuse to get paid to go to Vegas.

(58:25):
At rest point, it's not worth anything to them anymore.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
But where we're at any industry, right, because it's a racket, Right,
Because if I don't spend that million dollars and go
to shot Show.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
All the all the social media, my competitors fuel it.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Right. Whoever, whether I'm Knight's Armament, whether I'm Quantified Performance,
whether I'm Old Tour or whoever I am, right, my
competitors fuel it. They're like ha comashes and show up
to shot Show this year, they must be going out
of business. And because it happened to SIG when SIG
out because they didn't get their way, stick tapped out

(59:03):
that year and the entire industry turned on cig because
they didn't go to shot show. And so if you
don't go to a shot show, then everybody thinks you're
going out of business. Right. If you do go to
shot show, you are going out of business because you
spend a million dollars and you made fourteen dollars, right,
and it never.

Speaker 5 (59:22):
Started going to shot show. Then you're in trouble. If
there you ever stop going, that's when you're in trouble.
If you've never said you're okay.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
Yeah, And then the mmg's.

Speaker 5 (59:32):
Thing was was like they were like, Wow, we're spending
so much money on shot show.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
We could use this money to do better stuff.

Speaker 5 (59:37):
And they decided to buy their own range facility and
just have events at their own like place, and financially,
I think it was probably a really good idea for them.
And yeah, you know, it's it's pretty cool what they
can pull off at their little range, get people that
they that they like out there for way less money
than would have got at shot show. But yeah, probably

(59:58):
that first year four people were used to it. They
were like, oh, c MMG isn't here.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
What's happening?

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Yeah? Are they going under? Right?

Speaker 5 (01:00:07):
And that hard year, yeah, no, we said we took
that a million dollars we were gonna spend on shot show.
We spent five hundred thousand of it on an amazing range, and.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Then we just pocketed five hundred grand. What a no
brainer that was.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Yeah, and YouTube has removed this video. Oh yep, it's
been an hour.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
Yeah, my bad.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
We had one hundred. We had about one hundred live viewers,
so that was kind of nice.

Speaker 5 (01:00:34):
So you hit that third digit and they're like, we
better think.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Yeah, we don't like this anymore. We don't like ash.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
I think it is oh shit, now we can touch guns.

Speaker 4 (01:00:46):
I think it's interesting where the industry is because we've
been kind of leading up to this and a lot
of the consumers are saying it. It's like, you know,
where's the where's the innovation? And you know, we see
this in a lot of stuff. I think the video
game industry is a good example of it. In the
movie the entertain movie industry is a big example of this.
We've gone past the heavy like push phase right as
the Soule Weapons Band kind of subseted, and there's new

(01:01:08):
shit constantly. Because there's all that stuff and we're really
what feels like to me in a much more optimizing
sort of phase, which is awesome, should be awesome for
the consumer, right, Like, for once, you can buy a
thousand dollars AAR fifteen, and that shit is a three
thousand dollars AIR fifteen from fifteen years ago. The laser
ami module you can buy from halls and christs like,

(01:01:29):
is is better than a Peck fifteen or a you know,
a sign or whatever the hell. And it's awesome for
the consumer. But the consumer likes to be wooed, so it's.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
Not fun to be a consumer. It's just nice to
be a consumer.

Speaker 4 (01:01:44):
So being in the consolidation phase has been really like
a lot of people like, where's the next you know,
where's the next big thing?

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Never mind, I don't like the next big thing. And
that's that's that's what we've spent a lot of time
talking about, is what is the next AR, right because
because we're still using especially if you're if you're staying
on the Millspec train, right, you're using Well, we finally
got back, finally, finally got back to basically what the

(01:02:13):
AR fifteen was in nineteen sixty two, right, because sixty
two it had chrome a heart chrome carrier, right, which
generally everybody's doing.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
Now at least a version of that, right. The and
as soon as soon as we get to there, you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Go soon as soon as we get to high pressure ammunition,
which is the next NEXTR.

Speaker 5 (01:02:35):
Endorsement, apparently they fell off just so everybody knows no
longer endorse BRT.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
The high pressure stuff is an interesting conversation, so we
shouldn't have it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
But the with the high pressure stuff, you're going to
see and this is this is a little bit, a
little bit of insider. You're going to see one and
nine twists come back. You're going to see one in
twelve twists come back. So and that that that's just
a little little little little feather for your hat later.
But in two years, we're probably going to be back

(01:03:07):
to a sixteen to twenty inch one and twelve twist
hard chrome carrier air fifteen. Right. And it's not going
to be your grandpappy's gun though, because your capability is
when you're when you're pushing a you know, seventy seven
grain projectile at thirty seven to thirty eight hundred feet

(01:03:31):
per second, that's way more than your fifty five grainer
that was doing thirty one hundred right, so it's going
to be a whole lot.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
Of horsepower with it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
But what is next? Right? State tried to do the
rattler stuff and the LTE the spear FN has been,
the scar has been house stars. Literally just an Air fifteen, right.

Speaker 5 (01:03:55):
And it's got a sad little weekend. It kind of
like the Burretta. It's just like a really wet part
of a name. What do they call the new FN rifle?

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
The Evallis, there's the Evalis and then then they got
they got something else. But I mean, you look back
to the FN two thousand, right, since we're taking on.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Yeah, lick, they.

Speaker 5 (01:04:18):
Call it the AH that's got to be European just
doing stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
There was actually a program name it was like Light
Interdiction Cartridge some bullshit. I can't even remember what it was.

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
They didn't chase it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
But so you look at guns that are not Air fifteens,
and they don't sell because they're like this is trash,
this is this is this, this is this. They don't
sell because they're not on the Air fifteen. But then
everybody's like you're not innovating, Like well you won't buy

(01:04:52):
the innovation stuff, like like you're just talk about you're
going buy the innovative thing, but then you complain about
there's no innovation, right, So we talk about what the
next AR is and it's just not like not to
say that AR is perfect, right, but it's super fucking

(01:05:13):
hard to beat right now, Like this just the system
because I can if I feel like doing piston and
the whole piston piston train and pistons are way better. Yeah,
that's that. That that's argument. Yeah, the argument is over
right because there's there's no difference in it. If it
was a quality piston gun, it's a quality piston gun.

(01:05:34):
If it's a quality d I gun, it's the quality
d I gun. Right. And so you're like, okay, I'm
going to do a new butt stock. You're like, yeah, cool,
good job. What's it?

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
What's it new?

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
What's the new different?

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
It touches your shoulder better, right, And you go, okay, well.

Speaker 5 (01:05:50):
There's that one that that has the pivoting section on
the back so you can shoulder it and then rotate
the rifle without dragging your hoodie around.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
I mean, yeah, that's.

Speaker 5 (01:06:00):
Again, that's I'm I'm yeah, I'm happy.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
But you could go back to the you guys are
too young to remember the duo stock. My Matt might
remember if there's a thing called the duo stock. And
what they did was at the at the at the
bottom of it. That's the top of it. So I
grab this one there since we're already off, so get here.
So up here with flat but then down here they
kicked and you can you can get on the Google

(01:06:25):
and find a duo stock. They kicked it down here, so.

Speaker 5 (01:06:29):
Yeah, somebody and.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
It was great.

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
And then you can go up here and.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
Had used to have a nice stock on there, right,
And so you're like, I'm going to do a new.

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
Butt stock, and everybody's like, a fucking good job? Are
you madpoll?

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Are you be five? No? Okay, cool, because that's right.
I buy all my ship funk off. And you're like, okay,
I'm gonna do the hanyguard and you're like okay, now
you go down and down the handguard route and you.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
Know, yet another another mounting system.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Right. So it's just really hard to put innovation into
it when you've got.

Speaker 5 (01:07:08):
A circular nature to it. I know, Brock and I
complain about this all the time. That's just like, you know,
every couple of months, somebody would be like, wait a second,
what if the A cog is actually good?

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
And you're like, no, shit, it's good. It's been like
the top of.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Year combat optic for shit, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:07:22):
Longer than I've been alive. Was adopted before I was born. Like,
of course the acot is good. You did not discover
the A cog in twenty twenty five the Marine Corps
did an eighty seven Like fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
Off, but it is.

Speaker 5 (01:07:35):
It is circular, but also I think to some extent
it's a it's a spiral, so it circles around.

Speaker 4 (01:07:40):
But it also tolet except the toilet train is actually
a good thing.

Speaker 5 (01:07:43):
We're draining from a nice place. Yeah, because maybe now
is the actual time to start looking into alternative platforms,
Like the sig Rattler might have just been a little
bit too soon because we.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
Hadn't gotten to the center of the problem.

Speaker 5 (01:07:57):
Yeah, that's there's it's not there's a factors there. But
like we saw this return to a lot of old
ideals with the AR platform, Like people are now back
into chromelined barrels, but for the longest time it was
like this old old fogy chromelined phosphate barrel that rusts easily,

(01:08:18):
let's go to this snazzy new n nitride finish. And
now people are like, well, actually chrome is a more
a better, hard used duty barrel. So you've got companies
that completely made their last ten years of business off
of being nitrided in and out starting to have a
chromelined option again. So Faxon's doing chromelined stuff more than ever.

(01:08:41):
BA is doing a lot more chromelined.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
You've got like.

Speaker 5 (01:08:45):
Rosco all the barrels that they're making for Expo. They're
doing the husky stuff which is all chromelined. Like people
are getting back into chromelined, which would have been the
absolute default. It was hard to find, Like Bushmaster, DPMs,
a lot of those companies, they were like, of course
we chromelined our barrels back in two thousand and eight.
And then for ten years people were like chrome, what
do you crazy, It's bad for the environment, it's old,

(01:09:07):
we use nitroge. It's it's better, it's one hundred percent better.
And then people were like that was marketing. It wasn't
a hundred percent. It was five percent better in one
way and ten percent worse in another way, and it
was it wasn't worth it So there's that, and then
there's the gassing thing we talk about. Like gun you
Ar's got more and more overgased progressively because.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
People were.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
Not under educated.

Speaker 5 (01:09:28):
New shooters were getting into it, weren't taking care of
the gun right, they were buying a lot of like
bunker grade steelcase ammunition, getting their guns dirty. It was underpowered,
so the guns wouldn't work, so everybody had to overgas
it and that affected everybody. BCM and Daniel Defense were
overgassing shit, and like that's almost an inexcusable. Those companies
absolutely should not be catering to the the guys firing

(01:09:49):
steelcase into the rain, into the berm, but they still
were because that was where you know, the money was.
And now people are like, wow, all these things are
overgassed with suppressors. Now we're starting to get back into
more moderately, asked AR. So it's like we've taken the
best of the original platform, which was carport to one
fifty eight bolts and you know, chromelink carriers and chromeline

(01:10:11):
boring chamber, proper port sizes that are supposed to be
run with the actual real American made duty ammunition, plus
all the innovations of like you know, modern free floats,
better gas system links, all that stuff. The ar' this
is my famous last words.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
It was like the AR.

Speaker 5 (01:10:30):
Now it seems like it's finally perfected. I don't see
how it could get better. But then I mean, if
you take me back ten years, I wouldn't have seen
how it could have gotten.

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
To where it is now.

Speaker 5 (01:10:38):
But like it seems like now it's so damn good
that you're like, Okay, now is a good time to
start putting your money, your resources into a different platform. Yeah,
because you made the AR great again and now now
maybe Bretta can make the NARP too.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
So with that in mind, a question came up that
fits perfectly into that. This is from met Dropco, the
person who suggested the topic. Unfortunately he's not with us.
He hasn't passed, but because we're not live on YouTube
anymore and he didn't log into street card, but he's dead.
The question is, so my question for the panel is
are we in a golden age for quality factory guns

(01:11:15):
or should we build or have built a rifle pistol
from various manufacturers.

Speaker 3 (01:11:21):
I think both right.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
The guns that are coming from the factory generally right,
and I fought with the guys over at PSA, but
good friends, we got Vic over there, and good good
friends with people that are PSA.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
But they're they're the whipping boy that Nanna Anderson's dead.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
Right. So, but even PSA is putting out solid guns, right,
And generally anybody that's in the space that is paying
attention now they're there. There's still some ship out there, right,
But generally anybody that you've heard of is capable or
is putting out a quality firearm. Right, do they do

(01:11:56):
all the things that I wanted to do. You're not
necessarily I'm going to lead us snap onto you know,
Knight's arm and guns, right, But there's also the ability
to there's enough knowledge out there, and you know, Will
Larson and and that sort of that train has been
taken off for a long time and everybody has been
trying to, you know, replace Will in that space. Nobody's

(01:12:19):
done it yet, but and he's been gone a long time,
but nobody's been able to pull it off exactly there, right,
But there's enough knowledge out there that and manufacturers are
putting torqu specs on onto their their packaging, right, which
they never did before. So if I have an understanding
in the system, and even gunsmiths are actually paying.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
Attention to it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
Because back back in my day, he took an ar
to a gunsmith and he would tell you the fuck
off because all he built was fud guns, right, he
built hunting guns. Now now there's gun shops and gunsmiths
that are dedicated to the air fifteen platform. There's enough
support for it, so getting one put together and having
that still be a quot gone is super easy. So

(01:13:03):
golden age for that as well, right, And so it's
it's it's kind of both. And that's that's what makes
it really hard on the manufacturing side is how how
do I compete? And I've got to I've been talking
to my CEO about this because we're like, hey, we're
going to bring back a gunline. So I love a
little bit of scoop for people that have people that

(01:13:23):
are actually paying attention to it. Now that we're not
live on YouTube, we're putting out a gunline next year.
There's gonna be gonna be four guns on it. The
one that's back there is basically prototype of that of
one of those gun lines, right fourteen to five gun.
But I got to get the CEO to spend money
on it, right, And she's like, okay, you want to

(01:13:46):
invest money in this? Yes, How are we going to
sell guns in this market? Because everybody's seeing it's a
Trump swamp, there's gun companies going out of business? How
how what makes our guns so different than we're going
to be to sell them? And it's an outstanding question, right,
Why why would you jump into ars at this point?

Speaker 5 (01:14:07):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
And my thought is I'm gonna build that quality gun
with a team that everybody knows we're gonna be. We've
got our little range things is down here. We're gonna
be leveraging social media as best as we can. Like literally,
I have a have a range that I talked about
that is a private range, is not a public range.
And we've got a content creator tier for being able

(01:14:32):
to rent the range for two hours and come down
and field content and have the entire range to yourself.

Speaker 5 (01:14:40):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
So, now, is that something you're gonna fly all the
way to Tucson to fucking go get on the range
for two hours. No, you're gonna You're gonna get it
for at least a day if you're gonna pull all
that shit off, Right, But we're gonna be leveraging that
and just putting together a super solid firearm. And we're
and be introducing our team. The team of guys is

(01:15:02):
coming up with the and I nobody realize this, but
guns get built off of work constructions, right, And it's
you've got a guy that's putting the other gun. You
have the entire work construction package and he builds it
exactly how your work we're constructions go right, So those
guys are going to be you know, certified through every
every type of way that I can I'm getting. I'm

(01:15:23):
going to bring you know, Chad down from SOTAR and
he's going to do his training block on it and
going to be you know, my experience that the guy
that's already there is an Army small arms and repair technician.
We're going to be putting all that into it. And
one of the first things provided I can get the
ammunition for this. But how we're going to basically drop

(01:15:44):
the gun line is we're going to live stream a
ten thousand round test on five guns. So I'm working
on finding you know, fifty thousand rounds at five, five, six,
and rather than waiting for the Army to pay for
that and try to leverage that later on at some
point at somebody else's expense. I'm just gonna be like, Hey,

(01:16:05):
these guns are quality, They're built to go. I've got
his rack of fifteen guns right here. I'm gonna say
this one, this one, this one, and we're going to
the range and there's going to be a live stream
that people can go on to you, and we're going
to live stream shooting all the guns with ground counters
on it and all that sort of shit. So the
first thing that people are going to see on these
guns is our channel putting a ten thousand round testament,

(01:16:26):
and they're just gonna be like.

Speaker 3 (01:16:28):
Okay, here we go.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
Because it's gonna take me a while to get ramped up, right, So,
because my production is relatively low, it's not even I
wouldn't even call it boutique for twenty twenty six. So
as the market is slow, I can't make enough guns
to sell to be big. So who cares if sales
are slow because I can't even make that many guns anyway, right,

(01:16:50):
So I'm going to ramp up into it, and then
at some point, well after the midterms, the midterms might
not go our way and then at some point somebody
is going to be rattling.

Speaker 3 (01:17:01):
Sabers about making ars illegal.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
And I guarantee that if you actually did a full
on investigation and chase the money and we're able to
get into all the files like you had all the stuff,
and you follow the money, like get any gun at investigation.
If you don't know what's going on, where's the money
moving at? Right? That gun industry, someone in the gun
industry is responsible for a bunch of these things that happened,

(01:17:27):
and especially all the staber rattling with Congress.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
They're getting lobbied.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
To do.

Speaker 3 (01:17:33):
Gun laws to sell juns.

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
Right, they're also getting paid to make sure they don't pass.
But the saber rattling for six or eight months, because
if Trump gets on the Twitter tomorrow and is like
I'm banning air fifteen and you won't be able to
make enough air fifteens to fucking keep demand, right, and.

Speaker 3 (01:17:51):
It's that that easy. So how do you get that done?

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
You pay Trump to say that on Twitter, right, or
you pay Trucks Humor to say that on Twitter. You
pay any other kind of content creator if you want
wanted to go viral. Right. So that but if I'm
not in a position to capitalize on that, then then
that ship sails, right, because then it might go down
to another slump or they might actually be successful. Right,

(01:18:18):
So that's just kind of kind of worth sitting at.
And that's where everybody's sitting at, right And but the
average consumer thinks that things are actually going to happen.
They're not buying SBRs right now today because in January
the stamps supposed to go away. The tax is supposed

(01:18:38):
to go away in January, right, which still isn't official
by the way, it's in the bill, but it hasn't
been passed through atf stuff yet.

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
But they've still got time, right.

Speaker 1 (01:18:49):
But nobody's buying suppressors right now because that same thing, right, so,
suppressor sales are down. That's down January. Don't know if
they're going to pick back up. Everybody thinks they're going
to pick back up. But by January ship might be
fucking really shitty because the government saidy have been working
right now, So who cares if stamps are free if
I'm not going to fucking get one because they're not
at work.

Speaker 3 (01:19:09):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
They's just all these things that you can't control. Uh,
They could kick loose, and that's why everybody's kind of chasing.
That's weird.

Speaker 5 (01:19:22):
There's a tendency, I think for people to assume that
the current trend will last forever, which is is so bizarre.

Speaker 3 (01:19:28):
Everybody should obviously know that it doesn't.

Speaker 5 (01:19:30):
But yeah, it's like the market is down, It's like, oh,
the market will never will never return.

Speaker 3 (01:19:36):
It's like, of course it will every couple of years,
like clockwork.

Speaker 5 (01:19:38):
Somebody does something insane or says something threatening, and then
all of a sudden people are flooding the store to
buy stuff again. And then when the market is high,
you're like, this is awesome, We're never going to not
sell a gun.

Speaker 3 (01:19:48):
And then somebody will.

Speaker 5 (01:19:50):
Get elected who's like, I don't worry about it, man,
and everybody calls down. So I think as long as
like you're in this current, the current like depressed state
of the market where people don't have money and they
don't have impetus, they don't have the fire under their
assets to go out and buy stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:20:06):
Trying to compete.

Speaker 5 (01:20:08):
Yeah, as you say, like trying to set yourself apart
from other air manufacturers. I think the savvy consumer can
look at a lot of different AR companies and just say, like,
I recognize all those parts. Those are off the shelf
parts that I can get. I could build that gun
myself for a similar cost, but I could pay over time,
or I could just you know, I could just know

(01:20:28):
that I was building it my own self for fund
or whatever. So at that point in the way that
you have to stand out probably is by having unique
stuff that they can't get anywhere else, even if functionally
it doesn't matter, Like I mean, you know, like if
you could buy a BCM handguard or whatever, but you
might as well buy the BCM gun with a BCM
handguard on it. Is that any different than building your

(01:20:50):
own with a Midwest handguard. No, it's still it's the same.
We talked about this earlier. It's a friction fit handguard.
Whether you go b CM, Midwest, whoever, nobody cares. That's
not really special. But the BCM brand handguard does feel
special somehow. And then you know, volt or maybe has
that advantage of like you guys actually design parts and
make your own new stuff so you can sell an

(01:21:12):
AR and you're like, what's different about our AR? Well,
it has our handguard design, Like we designed this handguard system,
or we designed this, you know, pseudo monolithic up or
like that's what you can get with us, as opposed
to the many many companies who for a while were
able to just say like, hey we buy you know,
salt w is a good example. If you if you
kind of knew what you're talking about, you look at that,
you're like, okay, that's zeb rails, ballistic advantage barrels.

Speaker 1 (01:21:39):
What else did they use?

Speaker 5 (01:21:39):
It was off the shelf, Microbest carriers, you like, microbest carriers,
BA barrels, ZEV handguards, Like I can get all those.
You didn't design those, you didn't make those, You just
bought them same as I could buy them. You assemble
them same as I can assemble them. What do you
really have, you know, just your name on it? Yeah, yeah,
it's just I have a soldiert w rollmark on the
lower or whatever. More recently, I think they've started like

(01:22:00):
they've they've got their own barrel profile that they've been making,
and they've got that new lower that moves the grip
to weird ship who knows, but like that's that's I
think what they needed to do to set themselves apart again,
because they they had just been an assembler of off
the shelf parts, and that's not good enough anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:22:19):
So they have to start, you know, making their own stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
I mean I can.

Speaker 4 (01:22:24):
I can kind of go the other way, like because
I view it from the opposite perspective, kind of exactly
the opposite of what he just said of build versus buy.
And I think you can look to early Sons and
early BCM as to why the consumer goes that way.
The bottom end of the market is by their cheap shit,
like the PSA's whatever, It doesn't matter what you do,
that's what they're getting.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
And the top end of the market.

Speaker 4 (01:22:44):
Has created in like an ethos about you know, no offense,
you know CAC you know they asked like all this
stuff and ethos that is beyond reason to justify why
they're spending the money they have.

Speaker 3 (01:22:56):
And they have money to spend it. And there's nothing
wrong with.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
Buying nice shit for this nice shit.

Speaker 4 (01:23:00):
I love my nice tools, even though this spatchel that
costs me forty dollars because it weighs one and a
half pounds and I don't snap it in half every
time I try that, right, So there's nice reasons to
own nice shit. So those guys are already accounted for
to me, the consumer that is making decision a build
versus buy that is not locked in is capable of buying.

(01:23:22):
Or perhaps he wasn't capable of buying and he bought
his first Air fifteen and then customized the shit out
of it down the line, which is what a lot
of people end up doing. They know how to build
and AR, and they know the rough cost of building
an AR, right like I built this guy down here
fifteen thousand round, swapped.

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
Out the barrel.

Speaker 4 (01:23:38):
At some point there becomes a cost benefit analysis of
I can build my AR, and every once in a
while something goes wrong and that requires troubleshooting, that requires
re zeroing, that requires taking barrels off, that wuires swapping
stuff out, and at some point that becomes a major
pain in my asshole. So the cost benefit of analysis
of build versus buy is do I go with someone

(01:23:58):
that's figured this stuff out for me, or do I,
you know, build my own thing and for me personally,
you know that's worth maybe five hundred dollars, two hundred dollars,
three hundred dollars in them. Nowadays, the consumer market is
so good, I can go look at SUNS, I can
go look at BCM. I can go look at a
number of these manufacturers and know exactly what it costs
to buy all those parts, because most people are not

(01:24:19):
building everything in house or at least like your sons,
your DCMS, and I can tell, I can tell how
much it costs them roughly speaking, and I can say,
you know, okay, this is three hundred dollars more than
my home brewed AAR fifteen. Should I build roughly something
like this? I lose a bit of customization, but I
get the confidence of having a manufacturer behind it. I

(01:24:40):
get the confidence of having someone build it for me.

Speaker 3 (01:24:42):
And I think that's kind of the build.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
Versus by dichotomy. Nowadays, it's like, you know, how.

Speaker 4 (01:24:47):
Much are you charging premium for building the rifle? And
what are the parts you're using? And is it close
to what I want? And that's where I think Sons
of Liberty of Gun Works has sort of lost the
plot sometimes, right, they're beginning to charge premium price. This
is for what is ultimately just a b cm or
not even a bcm, like off the rack parts built, right,

(01:25:08):
And I think that's the discussion.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
I hear a lot. Yeah, but what we're going to
do with this gun, right and this is this is
not quite one of the line guns, but this is
the one that is on the website right now. But
what we're going to do is we're going to show
exactly the build right, and we've got a little build
sheet that is done going to be with it because

(01:25:31):
our parent company has aviation backed, so I've got all
kinds of FAA forms that show when you when you
rebuild an airplane, you have to show all these things
are done. So you're gonna be a build sheet and
then everything on this gun. So this was one of
my gun line. Everything is here. Obviously be a five
instead of a medical stock on there, but you're going

(01:25:52):
to be able to buy everything on the website from
this gun. And then then with that build sheet, I'm
gonna be like, Okay, it takes me two hours to
build this gun, right to my standards or whatever it is,
two hours, three hours, thirty minutes, whatever it is, Well,
you're going to be doing the website and you'll be
able to buy click put every part of that gun

(01:26:15):
unassembled into the into the into your cart, and you
can literally buy every piece of that gun except for
the lower right.

Speaker 3 (01:26:22):
Lowers are going to be there.

Speaker 1 (01:26:24):
But that that's we're kind of taking that out of
it because lowers are everywhere from thirty nine dollars to
two hundred bucks for a strip lower right just to
be nhere. It looks that that's hard for the pricing,
but the lower be sitting there. And the way that's
going to be priced though, is whatever's costing me and

(01:26:44):
time wise to build it, right, that's going to be
off of it. But if you look at that, you
when you do that math, buying the whole rifle is
going to be like twenty five dollars cheaper to buy
the whole gun assembled, then it will be to buy
all the parts. You can still buy all the parts, right,
if you want to buy it and build it yourself. Cool.
Do you let me build it though, and you buy

(01:27:07):
the whole gun it wants, it's going to save you
twenty five bucks.

Speaker 5 (01:27:10):
I think that's something that most people forget to factor
in when they're doing their own build, which is that
you have to pay retail and the manufacturer does not
have to pay retail. You have to pay shipping the manufactured.
I mean they're buying in such bulk. The shipping is amortized.

Speaker 3 (01:27:24):
Across their whole order.

Speaker 5 (01:27:25):
But if you do it slowly enough, you kind of
don't think about it. You're like, well, you know, I
placed that order on their fourth of July sale. I
place another order on their Veterans' Day sale. You know,
I feel like I got a really good deal.

Speaker 1 (01:27:37):
And you're like, yeah, you.

Speaker 5 (01:27:38):
Ended up you ended up paying retail prices plus two
hundred dollars in shipping, plus you build it yourself. Yeah
that you know the manufacturer could have done it.

Speaker 4 (01:27:48):
And then you try to sell it on tax swap
for five yeah AMSRP and it costs.

Speaker 1 (01:27:52):
Seven thousand dollars.

Speaker 5 (01:27:53):
Yeah, nothing to lose his value faster than an ar,
not even a brand new car like you get you
get the air off the off the lot, and it
loses seventy percent of its value.

Speaker 3 (01:28:03):
Right, because there's so many of them, there's there's no resale.

Speaker 5 (01:28:06):
But probably is also part of the reason that people
don't want to buy new ars and stuff. It's like that,
I know what a used they are is worth nothing
because there's nobody buying us they.

Speaker 2 (01:28:18):
Are well, and then if I already have six what
is an additional one going to do for me, and
so for me, I do have one of those fn
M sixteen A fours. That's a cool rifle. I also
have a shorty retro garbing.

Speaker 3 (01:28:34):
Yeah, that's absolutely want.

Speaker 5 (01:28:36):
One of the bigger parts of the market segment is
the retro stuff, because yeah, it's it's hard to get
excited about two different modern tactical ar builds, but it's
a lot easier to get excited about like ooh, a
Cult six oh seven clone like you know that was.
That's a rare piece of history, very interesting stepping stone
and the evolution of the platform.

Speaker 1 (01:28:55):
That's cool.

Speaker 2 (01:28:56):
It's fun. It's fun shooting enloy.

Speaker 5 (01:28:59):
You could own many different ones because the story has
already been made for you.

Speaker 3 (01:29:03):
I guess it's.

Speaker 5 (01:29:05):
The interest in that is sixty years worth of cool history,
whereas the the interest in your minorn tactically are is like, oh,
the ergonomics are really good, but you only really need
one of those before you're like, all right, I've said
I've scratched that itch of like a well set up ard.

Speaker 1 (01:29:19):
If I want for ten years, yeah I.

Speaker 3 (01:29:22):
Want to own more than one.

Speaker 1 (01:29:23):
I'm gonna have to go with it completely. Look it's
even got the old little school. Yeah the honey member
back when those guys spikes was a big deal.

Speaker 3 (01:29:30):
Yeah, yeah, I got over there. I just been together.

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
I got a one of those spikes Sharp's brothers, uh
the Warthog, remember that lower. I had one of those.

Speaker 4 (01:29:44):
I bought one of those for my friend as a
birthday present.

Speaker 1 (01:29:47):
Actually yeah, and my buddy Sarah Co did it and
he Sarah cooted the upper and had a company called
Victor Company chick names Heather Victor runs it. And she
sent me a handguard. That's cool.

Speaker 3 (01:29:58):
It's cool handguard. But the only and I had a
the upper sitting there.

Speaker 1 (01:30:03):
They had a psionics barrel in it, and uh so
I was like, oh, I just put this handguard on
this one. So I brought brought out the the the
the old spikes gun because it's all Sarah Co did
matches and the rails. You know, it doesn't match, but
the match is pretty good with it. So yeah, I've
got brought out the brought out the old spikes gun
and I'm shooting out the other day and that that's

(01:30:25):
just kind of I was just reading through the comments
on the chat and that that's just how we're going
to you know, with the build sheet and and that
sort of stuff. We're not going to be trying to
do any kind of secret sauce, Like I pay my
dudes competitively to build these guns, and they they've got
two hours in this. So this gun is this and

(01:30:47):
here here's here's what the cost is, right, and so
we're not trying to you And I don't even know
what that gun is going to price yet because I
haven't got got all my ship yet for it. But
the target is seventeen seventy five, right, just just because
that's fun, right, And that's the target price for the rifles.

(01:31:08):
How close I get, you know, I might have one
that's more expensive, might have one the cheaper. But then
from there we're going to introduce like we're going to
do a standard not even not even the upper, but
we're going to do a standard mills back upper. But
we're going to do a cast B gun when when
we're bringing the cast b is back out so to
be the same barrel and everything, but it'd be a
different upper receiver and a cast be on it, right,

(01:31:31):
And I just you know, we're leaning back into our heritage. Obviously,
everything's going to come within a five. But that's just
that's just how we're going to be be entering the
market over over twenty twenty six.

Speaker 3 (01:31:43):
And then then we're going to get some.

Speaker 1 (01:31:46):
We're bringing in, getting the getting the engineers up to
speed because they haven't been designing gun stuff, they've been
doing aviation stuff. So we're we're leaning on engineering engineering
stell because that's some of the things that I lost
from nights was don't have dedicated R and D engineers anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:32:02):
They're actually gun people.

Speaker 1 (01:32:04):
I have engineers, but I have to be the R
and D engineer and I'm not an engineer at all. Right,
So one of one of the things I was actually
got I'm working on right now. I actually sat there
and did arts and crafts and cut it out of cardboard,
and I was like, make this something that that's out
of it, out of a metal thing that I can.

Speaker 3 (01:32:25):
Hook on a gun.

Speaker 1 (01:32:27):
But you know that that's just different different companies and
stuff right there, right, So we're gonna have, you know,
and and there's nothing new in it, right because that's
one of the things that SOS of Liberty did was
they have well trained guys assembling the guns, right and
they use high quality products. Start with high quality products.
I've highly trained people putting them together, and that that's

(01:32:49):
kind of kind of how they made the mark. So
we're we're we're on that same path, and I just
think that's what people expect, right, and because when he
can be and the other thing to go with that
just transparency. You know, we're just gonna be like, hey,
this is this, this is this, this is this. We're
gonna we're gonna have little videos the guns again being

(01:33:11):
put together. And I'm trying to think of a cool
way too. When somebody buys a gun, if they you know,
they might go through a custom shop or something like that.
But there's no reason why I can't film your gun
getting built, right, Because once I've allocated that serial number two,
you like, if you order one, and I'll be okay,
this order is going to this person, why can't TIGHT

(01:33:34):
through a phone up there when that serial number pops
up and build his build his gun and send him
a video of his gun getting built.

Speaker 4 (01:33:42):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:33:43):
There's there's nothing hard in that at all. But the
hard part is getting to where I can where I
can do that right. And I know that that's order,
so it might be something that something that you know,
a couple of clickies here and there that gets you
to where you can see your gun getting built, which
is just fun. Right, We're super small when it compared

(01:34:06):
to you, like other companies and not even Nice Arm
and Nice Arm it was small when you compare to
Dana Defense, right for the number of employees and the
number of guns that they're putting out all sorts of stuff.
I saw a thing on LinkedIn and I didn't even
even think about this, but that's that thing on LinkedIn
that was a guy's a truck driver and he was like, just.

Speaker 3 (01:34:26):
Kid, did a really cool load showed up there?

Speaker 1 (01:34:29):
Because I had it was really weird because I had
to do like a background check and do some other
things and he doesn't have showed up And I went
to the address, didn't know what it was, and he
shows a picture of Dania Defense and he's like, yeah,
they put six thousand RS on the back of the truck.
And I'm like, that's like three years worth of production
for nice shit, right, that's you know, they're just like
it's just a day for Danny d doing fucking six
thousand guns, right, So and.

Speaker 3 (01:34:53):
So anything about.

Speaker 5 (01:34:54):
Could Arm the entire African sub continent for at least
a year.

Speaker 1 (01:34:58):
Yeah, yeah, anything about PSA because PSA is probably putting
out well, I talked to one of their dudes a
few years ago, so they're about this number. But a
few years ago PSA did like nine hundred and eighty
million dollars a year, right, and Knight's arm and as
big as sixty million dollars a year. Right, So when
you're when you're talking, you know, more zeros, right, zeros

(01:35:21):
plus then you know that that that's a whole lot
difference in there. You know, six thousand guns to you,
you know, freaking PSA might be two months worth of manufacturing.
It might have been six months for Danny d And
that's two years for nice armor, and that's I don't know,
ten years for me right now. But so it's just

(01:35:42):
it's just all on that scale that the people don't
think about. And the comment there's a comment saying folks
don't account for tools.

Speaker 4 (01:35:52):
To build this stuff and doing it the right way
cost one third to one half to cost the rifle you're.

Speaker 1 (01:35:57):
Nodding right now, I'm gonna say I've built.

Speaker 4 (01:35:59):
Some good rifles on my carpet with red dead reckoning.

Speaker 3 (01:36:03):
I get it.

Speaker 4 (01:36:03):
I get now that I know what I know and
I have the correct tools, and it sure does help.
You can get some shit done with a carpet and
wrapping in a towel and twisting it to you use
the towel.

Speaker 5 (01:36:15):
That was the first. Yeah, the first time that I
built an AR, what I did was I put it
on the floor and I stood on the receivers and
they get enough to work into the barrel.

Speaker 1 (01:36:22):
Though.

Speaker 5 (01:36:23):
The trick is and that gun works fine because the
R platform is awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:36:28):
Yeah, you don't put the magazine in it because you
get a little bit more leverage when it.

Speaker 5 (01:36:33):
And then the first thing is going to fail is
your ten dollars p mag not your.

Speaker 4 (01:36:39):
We're looking at and you're going to send a couple
of springs into low Earth orbit. Make sure you buy
a couple extra receiver springs and de tense springs.

Speaker 1 (01:36:47):
But other than that, you know, you can get it done.

Speaker 3 (01:36:49):
The people the.

Speaker 5 (01:36:50):
Embarrassing moment some like very recently where I had this
this AR receiver set. It's an arrow enhanced receiver set
that is one of the first RS that ever bought, built,
put millions around through and just kept rebuilding it over
and over again, rebuilding it over and over again in
different configurations. Finally, it wore out the upper to the
point where the charging handle will not stay latched unless
I'm shooting turn a blackout subs like, that's the only

(01:37:12):
charters I can shoot through it that doesn't cause the
charging handle to hit me in the nose. I was like,
all right, it's time to retire this. It's going to
be put out to pasture. I'm going to put a
CMMG twenty two dedicated barrel in it, and you know,
the little conversion bolt, and it'll just be twenty two
because that's not going to kick out the charging handle.

Speaker 3 (01:37:28):
It's fine.

Speaker 5 (01:37:29):
Plus I get this, you know, I get to use
this receiver set. It's already painted.

Speaker 3 (01:37:32):
It looks cool.

Speaker 5 (01:37:33):
Last time that I rebuilt it is one of those
times where I rebuilt it late at night, while maybe
perhaps slightly inebriated, woke up in the morning to find
it there.

Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
I was like, Oh, it's in bed with you.

Speaker 3 (01:37:43):
How interesting. I guess this is what I built last night.
And it was fine.

Speaker 5 (01:37:47):
It was functional, everything was great, you know, And I
assumed that I built it correctly because I usually do
until I came to disassemble it and found that I
had probably forgotten to use aeroshell anti cs, or you know,
I didn't put enough in it or something, or I
overtorked it or something.

Speaker 3 (01:38:03):
I could not get this thing together.

Speaker 5 (01:38:05):
I'm trying to get this arrow Atlas barrel nut off,
and every time I put torque into it, my entire
reaction rod starts to bend. That's how much torque I
have a breaker bar. I'm trying to go into this thing,
and what I kept doing was ripping teeth off of
the arrow Atlass barrel nut because the barrel nut's aluminum,
the little crows foot ranches steel.

Speaker 3 (01:38:25):
I put the torque into it, the.

Speaker 5 (01:38:26):
Whole entire thing starts starts twisting in my bench vice
and then teeth sheer off explosively and fly around my
little workshop area. And Yeah, eventually what I did was
I usually still slice in the side of it. Got
this thing dissembled ultimately, But yeah, I don't know how
I did this. What happened was it started clocking the extent,

(01:38:50):
the barrel extension started getting clocked, and at some point
the gas port was off to one side and the
feed ramps were no longer lined up.

Speaker 3 (01:38:58):
It's like, good grief.

Speaker 1 (01:39:00):
Uh, it's a lot of money.

Speaker 3 (01:39:03):
Fail that hard.

Speaker 1 (01:39:04):
Yeah. The other thing people don't take into account is
their own time. And this is this is this is
for everything, right, and this is across the board, this is,
this is cooking, this is putting together guns. They don't
put value to their own time, right, And and they
bitch about how much they get paid at work, but

(01:39:25):
then they will spend time on something and not not
assigning any time kind of value to you that right,
and not saying everybody has to do that. But I
have to put value into putting that time. When I'm
building that guy, right, I have to do it because
I have to pay that guy, right, and I have
to have the lights and I have to have the tools.

Speaker 3 (01:39:42):
I have to account for that.

Speaker 1 (01:39:44):
And people are like, oh, I could I could build
it myself cheaper. Well, yes you could, but what do
you charge per how? Right? And they're like, well what
do you mean? I'm like, what do you what do
you make it work? Per hour?

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:39:56):
Because if you had to do this for work and
it took you two hours to do, that's the money
that you would expect if I had you doing a job,
and people don't take that into account for builds and
that's that's on cars and that that that's on everything else.
They're just like, oh, I'll do the carburetor myself. And
then then they're out there for you know, it would

(01:40:17):
have took that. You know, the shop quoted them two
hours to do that job. They're out there for nine
hours and they're like, at least.

Speaker 3 (01:40:23):
I didn't pay that mechanic to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:40:25):
Be like, well, man, if your time is not worth
any money, that's that's cool.

Speaker 3 (01:40:28):
But you know what, what is your time worth?

Speaker 5 (01:40:31):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:40:32):
And that's what I encourage people to do. Like all
my friends, I encourage them all to you.

Speaker 1 (01:40:38):
Know, put a put a value on your time, right
just so you can you just kind of got that number,
like I put two hours into this, right, that is
what whatever it is, your your number is. I know,
I know what I consult that and two hours of
my time is you know for other people, that does
have some fucking value to it. And so I always

(01:41:00):
take that into account. And when it comes to you,
do I do this myself or do I take it
to somebody else? Right now, things like Harley Davidson's. But
I encourage people to become if they're going to buy
a Harley, to become a Harley Davidson mechanic because labor
rates are fucking and stupid with them things. Never buy one,

(01:41:21):
by the way, I have one, don't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:41:23):
Just build yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:41:25):
Yeah, I learned that ship the hard way, right.

Speaker 1 (01:41:27):
But one hundred and fifty dollars an hour, right, not
a lot of people are making that that kind of money.

Speaker 2 (01:41:33):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:41:34):
But if your time was worth you know, sixty bucks
an hour, and you've got to put two hours into
this thing, right, it is it less, yes, but there's
still your time involved in that thing, right, And so
I just encourage people too. And there's no reason why

(01:41:56):
you shouldn't know that, right, You should. You should always
put put your time into it. That so you can
account for when when you're when you're wasting time, right.
And there's there's things that people do, you know, it
makes them feel better, and it's cool hobbies and all
that sort of ship. But when you when you when
you start turning hobbies into you know, that's part of

(01:42:16):
my entrepreneur entrepreneurial experience.

Speaker 3 (01:42:21):
Is what's my time worth?

Speaker 1 (01:42:22):
Because quantified performance I put was until I came out here,
I was putting twenty to thirty hours.

Speaker 3 (01:42:29):
A week in a quantified performance. It wasn't making a
dime out of it.

Speaker 1 (01:42:32):
And I was like, this is dumb. This is not
a business. This is this is this is a hobby
that I'm I'm paying other people to shoot guns. So
we're making some changes with with that, but that that's
just the thing. And especially content creation, because we kind
of kind of hit on that with you know, with
charging like content creation. If you if you've got on

(01:42:55):
a spot where you can monetize not not just the
YouTube monitoration where you're getting in ads and all that
sort of shit. I mean, at his height and this
is this is this probably isn't true now, but at
his height by Grantham quoted a company that I know
thirty thousand dollars for a one minute reel. Wow. Yeah right,

(01:43:18):
but he knew his he knew his value, right, and
people were paying that value, right. So you can get
product or you can get cash money, you know, make that.
Make a business plan. Yeah, that that's what I spend
my life doing, is fucking business plan. Make a business plan.
And if you you know because you guys do your

(01:43:41):
do your heart analytics, you know how many people And
there's there's actually a term for it that I haven't
used in a while, but it's CPM cost per mealie
and basically how rapidly and you google that and go
on the chat GPT freaking hold on it if you

(01:44:02):
guess haven't done that. But basically it's based off a
thousand views. So when you post something, how long does
it take to get a thousand views? How many thousands
of views that you're going to do it? How much
does it cost you to get those thousand views? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:44:18):
So you have to do to get a thousand views?

Speaker 1 (01:44:20):
If you can do a thirteen second reel and get
a thousand views, whatever your time is worth to do
that sixteen second thirteen second reel because there's editing and
there's all that sort of stuff that goes with it.
So if it takes you ten minutes to do a
thirteen second reel, what's that cost for that thousand views?
And if that same reel is going to get five

(01:44:40):
thousand views and you know, all that sort of stuff,
work out that and then you were, you know, present
that business plan to a company just be like, Hey,
you got this new thing, and I can do this,
do this, do this, do this for this much money,
and if you price it properly and you actually pull
their shit off, then they're happy that they spend that money.
Most marketing right now is looking at micro influencers. So

(01:45:04):
the ten to fifteen thousand range is the best kind
of the sweet spot for like Instagram stuff like that.
But to do all that, you got to note your
time's worth, right, And if you don't put it in
anything that, I'm not going to pay you money if
I don't have to gret So, if I can send
you a gun for three weeks on a bailment, send

(01:45:25):
it to you, and you're going to do a video
for me for free, and you're just borrowing the gun.

Speaker 3 (01:45:30):
Cool, I'm down right.

Speaker 1 (01:45:32):
But if you're going to give me a give me
a reliable source of you know, you have this many shorts,
you're gonna get this many reels we're going to send you,
send you these unedited reels that you can use as
reels to go with this package that you can use
on your marketing channel.

Speaker 3 (01:45:47):
That's got our vibe to it, but it's not us
putting it on there.

Speaker 1 (01:45:50):
And for you know, a gun plus five hundred bucks,
I fucking cool man, I get And if I get
that value you out of it, then that's hot spreads
around and that's Leviathan. Dudes, Leviathan. Just make sure that
their companies get the value out of it, right and
they and they charge accord with me.

Speaker 5 (01:46:13):
Something you mentioned earlier, Uh, this might be the last,
the last thing that we have time for before we
have to go safe sea.

Speaker 4 (01:46:19):
I never got to talk about high pressure stuff, which
is actually the topic of tonight.

Speaker 3 (01:46:23):
But yeah, yeah, we've still got time.

Speaker 1 (01:46:25):
We got time.

Speaker 3 (01:46:26):
It's fast.

Speaker 5 (01:46:27):
We got to go savee super Earth in a couple
of minutes here. But uh yeah, the uh, just the
hobby aspect of it. Like I I love building ars,
like it's it's fun. I reconfigure my ars every afternoon
when I get home from the range. I just like
I tear them all apart. You know, it's like I
put on hundre rants to that I didn't like it,
tear it apart, rebuild it. That's obviously something fun. Otherwise
I wouldn't wake up to a brand new air build

(01:46:48):
every morning after I drink heavily.

Speaker 3 (01:46:50):
So that's fun for people, I think.

Speaker 5 (01:46:53):
And also it's so much harder to treat the AR
as like a serious duty platform for the average civil
and versus your like carry gun. You know, you're like,
the carry gun is what I go to the store with.
You know, I'm carrying this every day to protect my
life my family. The AR is something that I kind
of speculate on, like maybe someday I'll need this AR,
maybe for home defense, maybe for something, you know else whatever,

(01:47:14):
So it's a lot easier to take you know, kind
of treat the ARS as more of a fun platform.
You know, you build it, you you customize it, you
tear it down, you rebuild it all the time. So
and then yeah, I think that building your own AR. Yeah,
at that point is more like I like the experience.
I like, I like seeing the insights that I've seeing
how it goes together, and like kind of figuring out

(01:47:36):
the inner workings of that plot.

Speaker 4 (01:47:38):
Reloading guys, right, Like, I don't reload. It's not worth
my time.

Speaker 1 (01:47:42):
I especially as a you.

Speaker 4 (01:47:43):
Know, someone that is makes money based off of my time.
I'm not paid on the hour. I'm paid in the
content I make. Reloading doesn't make any sense for me.

Speaker 1 (01:47:52):
I don't enjoy it.

Speaker 4 (01:47:53):
If you enjoy it, you know, go with God my friend, right,
as Hop likes to say.

Speaker 1 (01:47:56):
But I don't enjoy reloading.

Speaker 4 (01:47:59):
So I'm not getting value out of reloading unless I
was a very high you know, a PRS style shooter
that can.

Speaker 1 (01:48:07):
Only get that out of reloading.

Speaker 4 (01:48:09):
That's probably with the performance of off the shelf, you know,
ELR match right, So to me, reloading is just not
worth worth the squeeze.

Speaker 1 (01:48:20):
And a lot of people are like, why don't you reload?
You shoot?

Speaker 4 (01:48:22):
Was that I spent fifteen thousand dollars in ammunition last.

Speaker 3 (01:48:25):
Year, right, Like why didn't you reload?

Speaker 4 (01:48:26):
It's like, well, unfortunately, if I reloaded fifteen thousand dollars
of ammunition, I would have lost money.

Speaker 5 (01:48:31):
Yeah, Like if I reloaded fifteen thousand rounds VAMO, I
wouldn't have had time, which is about fifteen.

Speaker 3 (01:48:36):
Thousand rounds of ammo. So what you know, I don't
come out ahead.

Speaker 5 (01:48:39):
There's that that very narrow segment of the market where
they shoot enough to justify reloading, but not enough that
they're like, oh, I actually don't have time.

Speaker 4 (01:48:46):
Yeah, since we're burning the candle here, I wanted to
I really wanted to tackle that CPM conversation because I
have vastly different opinions about that, especially when you see
how fast YouTube channels lifespans are if they operate under
that mentality. From your perspective, I think it makes a
ton of sense.

Speaker 1 (01:49:05):
Often the one.

Speaker 4 (01:49:06):
Paying the bills, but you're really seeing oh am I lagging?
Am I still here on back? Okay, my computer locked
up for a second. But not not to burn that
one too much, but you're really seeing it with a
lot of channels, Grantham, including your you sacrifice your longevity
by operating under that mindset. Because but I kind of

(01:49:28):
want to talk about high pressure stuff because to me,
if certain things align, that is the future VAF platform.
Right now six' eight was a complete shit show, Disaster
but there's one thing out of that that is, promising
and and that is the development of a manufacturable assembly
line where the hybrid casing plops in in a single
operation process and creates a casing which allows our hybrid

(01:49:50):
case ammunition or in the case OF ns, three we're
using you KNOW anys three right to do. That to,
me that seems, interesting especially if we solve what are
you doing?

Speaker 1 (01:50:01):
Huh oh that's your.

Speaker 3 (01:50:03):
CAT i thought we're just looking at your, dick okay, again.

Speaker 2 (01:50:09):
But, YEAH i think my.

Speaker 5 (01:50:10):
Dick is jet, black furry and has a little. Well
on the, camera it just looks like you wearing black,
pants man.

Speaker 1 (01:50:15):
Like but, yeah there's a whole bunch coming with with
high pressure that the. Cases, uh there's going to be
new bullets made for. It there's going to be barrel
technology that comes out for, it and not just not
just twist. Rates there's going to be different because with
the high. Pressure and not a lot of people know,

(01:50:36):
this but chrome lining isn't, uniform, Right so when they chrombline,
it they spray chrome down the center of.

Speaker 2 (01:50:45):
It.

Speaker 1 (01:50:45):
Right, well first you make your barrel bigger than it
needs to, be and then you chrome it to fill
it back into that. Spot, Right so your chrome is
very rarely a uniform.

Speaker 3 (01:50:57):
Thickness.

Speaker 1 (01:50:58):
Right so with high, pressure if you get it thick
in a, spot you're going to overpressure the gun and
you're going to kamoom the gun just by the thickness
of the. Crumb. Right but now you, Go, Okay i'm
going to use a cut rifle And i'm gonna use you,
know from my bore my bore has to be perfect
for this high pressure. Round then you're, like, okay NOW

(01:51:18):
i got thirteen rounds of barrel life out of it.

Speaker 3 (01:51:20):
Before it rip the freaking rifling out of.

Speaker 1 (01:51:22):
It, Right so there's going to be new, coatings there's
going to be a new rifling techniques that are going
to come with. This what those all look, LIKE i don't,
know nobody's there, yet. Right, so but then because people
are just going to get this high pressure am on
because the animal is going to come faster than the barrel.
Technology so then they're gonna put the high PRESURE am.

(01:51:45):
One you're already seeing it With Black arc And badlands
and the nast three cases that are. Out people are
complaining about barrel life with that, ammunition, Right people complain
about eight five to FIVE a one five FIVE a
one came out, Right, so but they want to performance
to the, ammunition, Right, so right now the army is
on this, Train they're, Like, okay this high PRESSURE, AMMO

(01:52:06):
i get less than a thousand rounds of barre life
out of.

Speaker 3 (01:52:08):
It the barrel change is really.

Speaker 1 (01:52:09):
EASY i, mean just round to kill, people SO i
don't care about bear life and competition shooters or whatever
that's running the high pressure stuff, hunters you, know people
that are using it for that, effect they're not going
to care about barrel life for a. While but barrel
life was going to become a factor super, rapidly, Right
and so you're going to see see new stuff coming

(01:52:31):
out with barrow. Technology you're going to see stuff with
bolt technology coming out because like They Black art just
dropped their six arc, right and six arc is hard
on bolts already because they're using the seven to sixty
by their to nine, bolt which everybody knew is a
fucking piece of shit beforehand when they were running SEMy
sixty two with. It now but now it's okay because
they're running six arc with it in six arcs and

(01:52:52):
the new hotness with. It so bolt life has been
a problem with six arc and Now i've got a
nast three case six. Arc so you're going to see
some bold technology come out of. Me you're probably going to,
see you, know the receiver extension and a bolt. Row
you're going to start seeing all these things coming into
it and new huppers because the And i'm glad that

(01:53:14):
the high pressure is finally out BECAUSE i got briefed
on a high pressure like seven years, ago And i've
just hadn't been sitting in at my pocket as all
these other little things come. Out so now it's now it's.
Out but the first thing THAT i was, like, okay,
cool what about when the gun goes high? Order what
about when it has an extracted? Board because right now
the yard blows, out and we see it when people
put three in a blackout in, it receiver blows out,

(01:53:36):
aside the magazine blows out the. Bottom if they have iepro,
on generally they're. Okay sometimes a, gun you, know maybe
this guy gets hurt a little, bit because you hear
about guns blown up more than much more than you
hear about guy getting severely injured or dying from the
gun blowing. Up, right so the gun is fairly safe
right now at like fifty five, thousand and you put
a three hundred blockout in, there it probably detonates, it you,

(01:53:58):
know seventy five or eighty AND i don't know what
it goes up to you and it does. That but
WHEN i start out at eighty thousand and THEN i
have an obstructed board and it blows up at one
hundred and sixty thousand instead of blowing up at eighty,
thousand what does that ar?

Speaker 2 (01:54:13):
Do?

Speaker 1 (01:54:13):
Right and so that's one of the things that we're
looking at with armor uppers is how to have that
strengthen there to where if the gun does go boom
on freaking high pressure, ammunition that whoever is holding that
gun isn't getting whacked when that. Happens, Right so you're
going to see technology advance in all of those spaces

(01:54:37):
in the next three, years and you might see some
stuff drop a. Shot Show Son's liberty is talking all
around it because they've got some they're doing some testing
with somebody on high, pressure so they're talking all around.

Speaker 3 (01:54:50):
It if you look at you know what they're.

Speaker 1 (01:54:52):
Doing because they're posting pictures of seventy three grains doing you,
know thirty eight hundred feet per, second, right so posting
that so they're playing with. It but, so LIKE i,
said you're going to see that ammunition hit and then
you're going to see the rest of the science nerd
stuff coming in behind.

Speaker 5 (01:55:11):
It so you're what you're suggesting is that our Generation's
Paul mauser is going to be some guy who gets
issued a spear in six' eight it blows up on
him and, HE'S like i got.

Speaker 1 (01:55:21):
To do something bad, than, this, yeah yeah, you know
or or just somebody just sitting there thinking, about it,
you know because they, you know the guy that had
the three hundred. BLACKOUT kaboom i haven't had one. OF
those i had, a kaboom but they didn't have a
three hundred. Blackout kaboom he's going to be sitting there
and he's going to, be, like man when my ship,
blew up and he might have shit drawn on a napkin,
right now and he sees this podcast and, HE'S like

(01:55:43):
i gotta go patent. That shit and if you have,
those ideas fucking patent them and don't give. Them away
but there's going to be that shit. In there HOW
do i MAKE this ar more bulletproof than, it is
because there's a bulletproof with, normal pressure and it's going to.
High pressure everything is going to. High pressure there's there's

(01:56:03):
no reason not to high pressure.

Speaker 5 (01:56:05):
Right now so the shift to high pressure is sort
of an, incomplete redesign kind of like the you know
it just expanding the bolt face was like you can
cram six y five grandels SIX ah SPC six arc
INTO the. Ar platform without redesigning. Anything else but should
you same thing with? High pressure you can just put

(01:56:26):
a high pressure case INTO, an ar should? You should
should there be more work done to actually optimize, this thing,
because like the platform had, A lot i mean so
much work and money went into making the platform the
way it is and you just change one thing and, you're,
like oh we're.

Speaker 3 (01:56:40):
Totally going to get away.

Speaker 1 (01:56:41):
With, This yes and SPEAKING, of lick that's what two
SIX four lick is because two six four is that.
F fingun so take two. SIX four amu was stuffed into,
a small SMALL fram ar platform and everybody agreed that
to opimize that it needed to be an enter, me
idiot so it didn't need to be a, large frame

(01:57:02):
but and it didn't need to be, small frame so
it needed to be halfway. In between and that's where
they're getting that performance with some case technology and a
little bit of. Higher pressure but that's two six four
lake in, a. Nutshell right so THAT new fn A new, fn,
Gun right and that's exactly what. It is is they
grew the platform based on the nees that they that.

(01:57:23):
They had That's what i'm looking. FORWARD to i WANT
the ar twelve and. A half i want it halfway
between ten, and fifteen, like yep just a, little bit
just a, Little bit and we're probably going to end,
up there right BECAUSE if i can get the, performance
right because right now nobody would buy that because there's
one cartridge. For it but if a whole bunch of
cartridges come out that are in that six milimeters six,

(01:57:46):
you know six to, seven MILIMETER that i can run at,
higher PRESSURE and i can have an eighteen hundred yard
gun out of a fourteen and a half inch. Barreled
gun that's not a full sized frame or a. Large frame,
you know it's a. Smaller package BUT if i can
get that high speed, of shit THEN then i would
buy an. Intermediate frame and.

Speaker 3 (01:58:07):
So you're probably see those.

Speaker 1 (01:58:10):
Pop up they're just a whole bunch of things that
we don't know where this high pressure is going to.
Take us and exactly what that looks like for a.
Fighting gune we know what it doesn't. Look like it
doesn't look like a SIGs hour, m seven that's what
it doesn't.

Speaker 5 (01:58:25):
LOOK like, i say like a couple of, YEARS ago
i would not have been interested in that idea, At
ALL like i want something that works one hundred. Percent inside,
you know the air platform like three in our blackout
is very appealing to me because it's just it's like,
in theory it's, Nothing different like all it is is.
The barrel, in theory THE original ar mags work flying
for three in or black out unless you're going for heavy, long, Suzz,

(01:58:47):
right so like that used to appeal to. Me greatly
but Now that i'm to the POINT where i feel
like the air platform, is. OPTIMIZED perfected i got all
the ONES that, I want they're all perfectly. Set Up now, I'm,
like Okay if i'm going to buy, ANOTHER gun i
wouldn't mind buying a SLIGHTLY enlarged.

Speaker 3 (01:59:02):
AR platform I know i'd like it better than all these.

Speaker 5 (01:59:04):
Short stroke pissed and modeltick upper folding stock bullshit, Contract
GUNS like i don't.

Speaker 1 (01:59:09):
Like those.

Speaker 5 (01:59:09):
They're dumb they don't actually offer anything THAT the ar,
doesn't do but an intermediate option OF the r PLATFORM
between ar FIFTEEN and ar ten that can actually properly
handle all of these, you know six mil genre. Of
Cartridges now, i'm in, you know to the POINT where
i am interested in.

Speaker 1 (01:59:27):
That, Idea yeah and if you can get into like
on the, hunting, Side right SO if i can get
into something that drops deer, very well that STILL does,
ar HANDLING and i still get all my perks of HAVING,
an ar but it drops deer very WELL that i
don't have a full sized gun, for right because we
already did the twelve and a half and seventy six two,
guns right shooting one tens and that doesn't really get.

Speaker 2 (01:59:50):
On.

Speaker 1 (01:59:50):
Deer right BUT if i get something that's more dis optimized,
than that because that's a pretty. Badass blaster BUT if
i get something that's, more Optimized then i've got got
a hundred cartridge, in, there Right and I've got i've
just just got all these all these sort of options
that kind of, open up and you just got to
put everything on.

Speaker 4 (02:00:07):
The.

Speaker 1 (02:00:07):
Table right it's not it's not. All tactical timmy's running
around and just. Blasting right those DAYS of i think
the days of marketing and the guys just, Doing it
guys running Around The pistol bay. Shooting ars, you know
the heyday Of the. MAGPOLE class I Saw steve fisher
posted a picture up At early. Magpoole stuff you know

(02:00:27):
that the heyday of. Magical classes and we're in the
pistol bay at fifty yards and we're just blasting and,
we're dumping, you know twelve hundred round class, Right now
I'm not i'm not signing up for, That shit like
we're gonna we're gonna up cross twelve. Hundred rounds and
then they're like, fucking, No dude like like WHAT am
i getting out?

Speaker 4 (02:00:44):
Of?

Speaker 1 (02:00:44):
This oh you get to be cool and you get
to hang out with, You Know steve Fisher, or ashes
and you'd be, like, that yeah that's super, Cool man
but twelve, hundred rounds like you, have fucking, you know
seventy five cents, a bullet, you know on an, average
PRICE maybe i can find it super cheap for fifty,
five cents AND then i still got to pay. Tuition too,

(02:01:04):
LIKE that i think that shit is? It now all
the training stuff is feeling, it right pishures pretre. SEVEN classes,
i mean even back in, the day we were kind
of a. Similar spot like right around fourteen, or fifteen
must have, been fifteen ammunition prices, were high and Even

(02:01:25):
A pat, rodgers CLASS because i was SUPPOSED to i
got comptasy To A pat. Rodgers.

Speaker 3 (02:01:28):
Class man pat had like four.

Speaker 1 (02:01:30):
Classes Canceled pat rodgers had classes to, get Canceled, right
so and that's just, you know the state of the
state of the state of. Things THERE and i just
think that. That's dead shooting in the pistol bay is,
you know for twelve million rounds right? Right now the
FRTs are popular just because, they're, legal right but nobody
wants to feed.

Speaker 3 (02:01:50):
That shit they go and they, shoot like, you know
a full.

Speaker 1 (02:01:53):
Semi automatic, they go dump one magazine out, of it
and they're, like cool and then they never do that
again because they realized they just spent like, twenty bucks,
you know shooting trash in. The YARD so.

Speaker 5 (02:02:07):
I do that's almost an entire other episode of itself
is like what are the long term effects of super
safety is going? To, be yeah, you know people all
of a sudden the kind of dovetails. Into this the
shift back to chromeline barrels, is like all of, a
sudden people are heating these things up way more than
they ever used to and, thinking, like well BACK when,

(02:02:30):
i shot, YOU know i, shot GROUPS and i did long.
RANGE stuff i did not care about. Chrome lining Now
that i'm going to the Range and i'm testing my
super safety over and. Over again all of, A sudden
i really really want that heavy profile phosphate. Chromeline barrel
all of, a sudden barrel life really matters. To me
all of, a sudden proper bolt head steel really matters.

Speaker 1 (02:02:51):
To me, IT'S like.

Speaker 3 (02:02:54):
I think that's that's going to complete.

Speaker 5 (02:02:57):
The shift the shift was already happening and people, BEING, like,
i actually you, KNOW what i do want a duty.
Grade ar, YOU know i don't want this. NITRIDE stuff.
I want i want what the military said was good
back in. The sixties they had it right the, first
time but now it's going to complete that transition where
they're gonna, be like AND now i have the other
reason that the military wanted to go with chromelining is
because of accelerated. Fire.

Speaker 3 (02:03:18):
Rates, yep yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:03:23):
Well didn't be a whole. Nother one.

Speaker 3 (02:03:25):
Two, hours Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:03:28):
Greaz brocks warming up The. Super DESTROYER so i got
yeah on the bridge at.

Speaker 2 (02:03:32):
Some point so with that, in mind let's get, final thoughts.
Final plugs not that hop ever. Plugs Himself but i'm
going to repeat my, favorite phrase and that is make sure,
that you the viewer of, the listener are supporting those
sources that you have found to.

Speaker 1 (02:03:46):
Be beneficial so.

Speaker 2 (02:03:47):
If you've liked, this discussion find these guys on, social,
media subscribe, like share especially if it's something that's helped
you understand, something better something that's provided some insight that
applies to primary and. Secondary stuff since you got to
go And Save super earth hop final thoughts not.

Speaker 5 (02:04:06):
Playing field if, you ever if you ever see like
a like a flyer somewhere somebody is doing a GoFundMe
to pay for their, PET surgery i would highly recommend
sharing that and contributing. To it at at a little
Barcade In Salt, lake city we saw a flyer for
this cat that needed, some SURGERY and i shared. IT around,
i donated we, got updates so it was like a

(02:04:26):
free source of cat pictures and updates from this guy
is going through the process of getting his. Cat surgery,
it's fantastic one of the one of the BEST investments
i ever made in. My life and ALSO when I
when i had to pay for my, CAT surgery i
know how expensive, it was.

Speaker 3 (02:04:41):
So, uh yeah THAT'S what.

Speaker 5 (02:04:43):
I was That's what i'm gonna plug healthcare for healthcare.

Speaker 2 (02:04:47):
For, pets yes it'll. Never pass.

Speaker 5 (02:04:51):
And they talk about that's they'll hate you for it
because then they're going to associate you with the process
of going TO the vet and, getting surgery. Which sucks,
it's awesome you're. Your cat no will hate you for saving.

Speaker 3 (02:05:01):
Its Life.

Speaker 2 (02:05:03):
But ash did talk about some kind of an event
that might, Be happening and if you, Need shooters i'm
sure we can get a road. Trip.

Speaker 1 (02:05:09):
Going, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:05:13):
Yeah so.

Speaker 5 (02:05:16):
If you need somebody to test your range out and
see if your range is, any.

Speaker 3 (02:05:19):
Good, yeah yeah we need we need to get you
to get.

Speaker 1 (02:05:21):
You guys down and do some stuff and we'll we'll
shoot some forty milimeter chalk. Around there but well we'll
we'll break Out the milcoorp GUNS and i got revolvers
and we'll make a day. Of it and you guys.
Have revolvers I'm.

Speaker 2 (02:05:39):
Salt Lake well i'm north Of. Salt, Lake uh brass
Is salt lake and. Hop, Is yeah i'm Like A salt.

Speaker 3 (02:05:46):
Lake. Snowbird yeah so depending on, The, season.

Speaker 1 (02:05:49):
Yeah that's not too Far. From TUCSON so i did
the Trip from FLORIDA and i don't don't. Recommend it it's. Not,
fun oh.

Speaker 2 (02:05:58):
Thank you so, final, Thoughts bugs.

Speaker 1 (02:06:03):
Final thoughts now just just kind of watch what we've
got going on With old torr and, you Know milk
core is gonna be doing some stuff if you don't
follow me on social, media already if you're looking at,
meta channels you're gonna be seeing workout shit unless it's.
A story and occasionally you'll see some, gun stuff but

(02:06:23):
the first three to five seconds is not. Gun stuff
so if you're looking for, gun stuff that is that
is more. MORE LinkedIn i Can't, stand TWITTER and i
know you can post kind of whatever you Want, on
twitter and that's that's the thing, with IT but i
absolutely hate, that channel so LinkedIn you'll see more. Shooting

(02:06:43):
stuff my my meta channels are working out shit right
Now because i'm making money from meta for posting things
as Long as i'm not, Posting guns so money is
important it he's the rest of the ship stories you
can get. Away with but if you're posting gun ship
to the meta channels and you're bitching, about that they're.
Stifling you you're you're doing that. To yourself you're playing yourself.

(02:07:07):
On it so but you know it gives give us,
a follow go check. It out we do have a
giveaway going on right now and we do have a
giveaway getting ready, To drop so people that are listening
to this podcast get the. Early stuff if, You go
i've got to post it up On. My instagram right
now we're. Giving away we're upper that's that's got a

(02:07:29):
cool uh basically on the merge just.

Speaker 3 (02:07:32):
Real quick so we've got.

Speaker 1 (02:07:34):
Different ones this is a non forward assist one that's,
on here but we're going on a. Foard assist nick
found one in the yard that's probably been out there
for ten years getting run over and all that sort,
of stuff and it's.

Speaker 3 (02:07:44):
Still good so we're.

Speaker 1 (02:07:45):
Doing it we put that on, my upper clean, it
up put on. Her upper that's. A giveaway but we're
going to be giving away a forty milimeters launcher throughout
the leading Up, to shatcho so be paying attention. To
that that's got to fifteen thousand dollars retail value, on
it so is it very expensive to, feed it but

(02:08:07):
it would be super good investment to give me your
email address and you win it and you could turn
around and sell it for like.

Speaker 3 (02:08:13):
Fifteen grand so.

Speaker 5 (02:08:17):
Those are guys going to be at, shot Show then
i'll make sure to stop by and then people can
see that video ON Tfb, tv showtime and.

Speaker 1 (02:08:27):
That that exact launcher will be at, shot show so
you will get to get to a video of a
launcher that somebody is going to.

Speaker 3 (02:08:34):
Be winning love that juicy.

Speaker 4 (02:08:37):
Be.

Speaker 3 (02:08:37):
Role yep, but yeah that's pretty, Much.

Speaker 1 (02:08:41):
It matt whenever you do something that that you got
something going on for, an episode just just. Reach out
i've got much more time to do things like this
than they Had, in florida so particularly now Because The
quantify performs finale is this, coming weekend so a lot
of my WEEKENDS are i get them back until we

(02:09:04):
Start Doing qualified forms. Things Again and i'm not doing
Anything Really west coast for, a While so i'll have
more time to do shenanigans just.

Speaker 4 (02:09:12):
Like.

Speaker 2 (02:09:13):
This, cool well big thanks to, The panel big thanks,
to you the listener of. The viewer also big thanks
to The Sponsors, Lucky Gunner, filster walter and Also the.
Patreon subscribers if you, like this go to patroon, Dot,
com slash primary. And secondary help support. The network all kinds,
of tiers all kinds. Of benefits these. ARE fun i like.

(02:09:33):
Doing them it's nice to hang out with people and have.
THESE discussions I think that's pretty. Much it these guys
are going to go play, One game i'm going to go,
Play Another so i'll talk to.

Speaker 1 (02:09:42):
You.

Speaker 3 (02:09:42):
Later yeah good luck with the Sweats what they're a, freaking.

Speaker 1 (02:09:47):
Menace dude

Speaker 2 (02:09:49):
We'll see

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P&S ModCast 444 - The AR15 in 2025

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