170 - Fungus on Rye

On this episode Mark Lindsay goes introspective, could it be a consequence of "Fungus on Rye"?
We talk about making plans, superstitions, and premeditated disappointment. If you don't follow just yet, that's ok, you'll enjoy the episode! Check out this episode of Trampled Underfoot Podcast!


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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Man, I am just I'm busierthan a set of jumper cables. Had
a redneck picnic man just bouncing allover the place. I got so many
things going on in the background.It's not even funny that one lined up.
No, I'm telling you it isthe case. It's it's just ingrained
in my brain because it's not trueyou had that one lined up. No,

(00:23):
I'm telling you interesting, it's ingrainedin my brain. I can picture
I can picture those almost the plasticheat it up so much that it's slightly
melted and greasy. Sitting in there. I can picture the like all you
had to do was say those basiclittle things, and I captured the whole
atmosphere. Yeah. Yeah, wellthat's busy, gummy gummy plastic um freaking

(00:46):
jumper cables. Bring them over here, Jed, you can't push start your
camera, it's automatic. Yeah,it's just too much stuff going on.
It's not I keep saying I needto go get a job so I can
get some rest. But yeah,that's okay, it'll it. You know,

(01:10):
it is what it is, andeverything's going to be all right.
Well, I mean, you toldus everything and you told us nothing at
the same time. Because we don'tknow the specifics. No, I can't
give specifics just yet. I'm thatkind of person. In fact, my
wife Linda made me that kind ofperson to where if you if you want

(01:37):
something to happen, if you keepdwelling on it and talking about it,
and it's superstition and we know,but if you keep dwelling on it and
talking about it, it's not goingto happen. But if you plan for
it, do everything you can,and then move on to something else,
chances are it will happen. It'snot a guarantee, but if you keep

(01:59):
working at it and working at itand working at it and working at it,
it's probably not going to happen,or keep dwelling on it or keep
thinking about it, you know.Yeah, well I think that that I
have heard of that because that thatis a like going standard of how to
you know, address situations. ButI think it has to do now as

(02:20):
you were saying and I was imagining, I think it has to do with
one not building themselves up and thengetting that big old fat slap upside the
head and not your stuff down.So that way you did all you could,
you sit and wait for it toknow, you you let it be
and hope that it comes round,but you go ahead and continue with your

(02:43):
stuff, and if it popped up, it's it's all joy and happy exactly.
You move on to the next thingand you work on that. You
can't put things aside sitting there waitingand hoping on that. You know,
yeah, have to continue on.It's kind of like building anything. When
you're waiting for parts or you're waitingfor supplies blue or paint or whatever.

(03:06):
You know, there's still other thingsyou can do, so you don't just
sit there. Well I can't doanything because I don't have goose bolts.
Well you've got all this other stufftogether, that together. Yeah, yeah,
okay, fair enough. But butI'm also the kind of person who
if I have something going in thebackground and it's not confirmed, I don't

(03:30):
want to talk about it because thenI had to explain what happened and why
it didn't come to fruition. Sojust don't say nothing until it's a done
deal. You know the old don'tcount your chickens before they're hatched. Well,
in my case, it's don't countyour chickens before you have a tracking

(03:52):
number, you know. So it'skind of like that, it's just waiting
there. There's an old Phoenician,Greek, Um Mediterranean sort of a symbol

(04:14):
that's an eye, and it's ablue eye, and it's meant to keep
um, the evil eyes at bay. And there's versions of that in different
cultures. UM kind of in withinthe realm of what you're saying, but
in a different twist where certain superstitionsof you know, if people look at

(04:36):
you, you know, cross youknow, one way or another. Um,
that negativity can sort of come andscrew up your stuff, right,
And so they have little trinkets andtalisman's and in Cuba they have um different

(04:58):
things, but they really to toto a different level because they also have
different types of like they'll have likesacrifices and geez, animal animal sacrifices and
whatnot. But um, in orderto ward off you know what I'm saying,
that the yea. And then theyhave this one thing called the red
the red Um what do you callthat? I'm I'm at a loss for

(05:23):
words. To hankerchief. Um,it's a red handkerchief and UM it's to
ward off the evil eye. Sothey have and there's and they write songs
about or they have throughout history,and um, it's there to ward off
and it's the sort of thing theequivalent for Americans, UM that would know

(05:48):
about. It's sort of like afolklore, the equivalent of Brian, was
it Brian Robert Johnson going down tothe crop a crossroads? And it's kind
of like that. So most people, I don't know that they believe it,
but it's so ingrained in like thefolklore of the country that it's accepted

(06:11):
as a thing, but not thatmost people, I think, not that
most people would believe that. Now, you know, when you get into
superstitions, we have so many ofthem. I think most people, most
people would agree that it's nonsense.But there's still that thing, you know,

(06:35):
Um, you see a penny onthe ground. If it's heads up,
you put it in your shoe forgood luck. If it's tails up,
you put it in your pocket andforget it. Yeah, that kind
of thing. Stefan a crack youbreak your mother's back. There are little
goofy things like that that we stillkind of pay attention to. And we

(06:55):
know it's nonsense, we know it'sabsolute nonsense, but it's funny. Some
of the most superstitious people in theworld are sports fans and gamblers. You
know, I want a lot ofmoney. When I was wearing these socks,
so that means these are my luckysocks. I got to wear them
every time I go to the casino, you know, or every time I

(07:17):
got up to go to the bathroom. Our team hit a home run or
scored a point or you know,got a touchdown or whatever. So that
means I gotta you know, whenit's getting tense, they're getting close,
I gotta, I gotta go tothe bathroom. Like we have some sort
of effect on anything happening in thein the you know, out there in

(07:38):
the in the cosmos. We don't, and we know that rationally, but
we will still hang onto those superstitions. It's funny to me. You know,
my grandmother had a lot of umgreat anecdotes and stories and stuff and
with lessons in them. And oneand she told me one time one where

(08:01):
there was this guy in one townin Cuba in the middle of just you
know, um these towns that arein the middle of nowhere, and he
was gonna journey to the next townbecause he needed a specific solution to a
problem that one guy, you know, be it some sort of equipment or

(08:24):
something, but he needed the attentionof that that person. And he started
his truck towards the next town.And as he was going, he was
like complaining, I've got to walkall this way to get to the next
town. Um. This guy,you know, he's he might not be
there. Um. And then I'vewasted my day because I'm walking over to

(08:48):
the next town and he's not there. And you know what, Um,
maybe when I get there, hisattitude is gonna be crappy. Maybe he's
got other people that So he keptgoing, and he kept playing in his
mind, and he built it upso much that when he got there he
and the guy opened the door andsaid hello, the traveler cursed at him

(09:11):
he had built up. So there'salso the thing of like if we believe
it. Yeah, if we believesomething, we react as if that's the
truth, the self fulfilling prophecy.We build it up in our brain to

(09:31):
the point to where we sabotage ourselves. Yeah, that happens a lot.
That happens a lot. You know, you go to fill out an application
and you're feeling really good about ajob. Your resume is tight, it's
all ready and rare and to go, and you just know you're gonna get

(09:52):
this interview. But then you startthinking about what ifs in the back of
your head, so by the timeyou get into the interview, you're a
wreck. You blow the interview.It's a self fulfilling prophecy, you know,
preconceived disappointment, basically premeditated excuse me, premeditated disappointment. But I don't

(10:13):
know. We can help ourselves alittle bit, but I don't know how
much we're in control of biologically,just psychologically, um, because we have
built in to to ourselves a lotof um kind of like a computer's self

(10:35):
protecting, you know, um uhsort of like uh, you know,
block roadblocks and and and walls inorder to navigate through this life. And
so it takes a very strong personum if they're confronted with this negativity stuff,
to overcome it um or at thevery least acknowledge that while there's I'm

(11:01):
thinking all this stuff, but let'sjust go ahead and go through, because
you know, we have a problemwhere our minds. I don't know if
you've thought of this or not.I've contemplated it a little bit, but
our minds are like, so Idon't, I don't. I'm not sure.
So I don't know either way.But I'm not sure if we as

(11:26):
people. As a I think ofmyself as an observer looking out into the
world and my body. It's likeit's the and my mind and all these
things. I'm just an observer.It kind of like a recorder, like

(11:48):
a recorder, and this is justme thinking. And then you have all
these flashing thoughts that come and connectionsand puzzle and assumptions and judgments, and
it's easy to assume that these thesethought processes are you. They might be

(12:13):
you. I don't know that theyare. Maybe they are, maybe they're
not. But so you know,you could think World War three, let's
say, you know, but Ithink of it as a stream, like
like you moving through channels and thingsare coming at you or your your brain
and stuff. But we're literally inother words, some people buy into the

(12:37):
notion. UM. I don't knowif this is true either, but I'm
imagining that maybe it's true. Umif they get an idea, UM,
they see a horror movie and thethought, wow, I wonder if I
was the killer in that movie.And then they contemplated and in their mind

(13:01):
they can't this is so yeah,and they become looney and they go off
and do the thing like you knowwhat I'm saying, like like maybe I've
gone off the rails here. Um. But so the money is a very
If you don't have a certain amountof psychology too, things, you could
get lost in all sorts of crazy. Well, but you can. You
can carry it too far if youget too much psychology into things. You

(13:22):
know, don't overthink it basically,But you brought up a point. You
said, I don't know if it'swe that's doing it. It's one hundred
percent weed it's doing it. Youcan say it's one hundred percent yes.
Have you ever had a conversation inyour brain? Have you ever had a
mental conversation with someone you've never evenmet? You can picture yourself like maybe

(13:48):
like or something. You can youcan picture yourself meeting this person and exactly
what you're gonna say, and youknow what his response is gonna be,
and you'll lay it on the linefor him right then and there. You've
never had little mental exercises like that, No, maybe like prepping for like
what you said for a job interview. This is what I am going to

(14:09):
say, but I never I don'tknow. Maybe you'd have to give me
an example. Oh, I wishI could meet that Mick Jagger. I
would tell him you're flopping around upthere like a damn rooster. Knock it
off. You're not that good.Just sing the song, you know.
So so building a narrative of ofof if of that encounter, yes,
just conversation. And well that's whatI mean by that. It's one of

(14:33):
us. We build this stuff upin our brains, knowing full well,
you know we're never going to meetMick Jagger. We're never going to have
that conversation. So why do wedo it? You know, I almost
mc jagger. But we also buildourselves up. We will convince ourselves that

(14:54):
things are going to go horribly beforethey ever happen, you know, or
things are gonna go great. Imean, we know people. You and
I both know people who have boughta lottery ticket and knew they were gonna
win and started mentally spending the moneyand they ain't even home from the convenience

(15:16):
story yet the numbers haven't even beendrawn. But we I mean, I
have a name in my head.I know somebody who has done that every
time they buy a ticket. Ohyeah, I'm gonna win this, sucker,
and I'm gonna do this. I'mgonna do this. I'm gonna do
this. Yeah, and you're stillworking for an hourly wage. You know,
we build ourselves up for the absolutebest, or we build ourselves down

(15:37):
to the absolute worst. And butthe trick is not to sabotage yourself.
You know, prepare for the worst, hope for the best, but don't
don't make it a self fulfilling prophecy. Don't sabotage yourself, because if you
set yourself up for failure, you'llprobably fail. You know. Yeah,

(15:58):
it's it's probably easier to do.It's probably easier to do than not because
I because and again it's hard tospeak for others because within that that livestream
broadcast that's going on in your head, um, there's millions of variations of

(16:19):
that from person to person, withsome similarities because we're all within the realm
of human beings. So we mightyou know, think apples, apple pie,
apple pie at brunch, and youknow, just there's certain things that
are common to a lot of people, and you could share. But then
there's these wild ideas, wild ideasthat come across, you know, come

(16:41):
across the mind, and people's believepeople's choices in their thought processes of what
to accept and what to deny.Um, just the human experience of all
that. But but these little symbolsand these little things are traditional, sort
of like um crutches in a way. I say that I think that they

(17:06):
are. But maybe they do havethis power. I believe it's more psychological,
but who knows, Maybe it doeshave some sort of mystic thing that
we're not aware of. I don'tknow. I don't think so, though.
That's a whole other topic. Imean, you kind of borderline on
placebo effect, you kind of borderlineon faith. And I'll just say it

(17:30):
straight up, How was their faithany different from ours? You know,
whatever that faith may be. I, you know, I, to me,
it's not an argument about my God'sbigger than your God. To me,
it's an argument. It's not evenan argument. It's just your beliefs
are your beliefs, And who amI to tell anybody that they're wrong?

(17:55):
Yeah, but we're a consequence ofyou know, you and I and definitely
everybody in in the audience and mostlikely anybody that will listen to this in
English, are a consequence of aWestern thought process that that came through,

(18:18):
you know, the Enlightenment and progressedinto there's certain things that we so like.
What you just said is something thatum, No, unless you're gonna
be a contrarian, no Westerner willthink of that concept that you just said
as completely well, let me justsay as completely foreign. Nobody's gonna think,

(18:41):
yeah, wow, Mark, that'sexaggerate. They're gonna more or less
say you're touching on the route.Well, if they think it through,
they will find it that there's ahome in Western society to what you just
said, But other societies might belike because to if we live somewhere like

(19:02):
that Western society, even the variationsof what Western society is, there's people
out there in other parts that dostuff that for us, well, you
know, we've talked about that inthe past. Are completely weird that we
wept, but we were not goodat it. But we do learn from
the past, and we saw howwell that intolerance worked and just decided as

(19:27):
a society no more. You know, your beliefs are your beliefs, My
beliefs are my beliefs, and wecan get along fine with it. We
can get along fine that way,more or less, more or less.
And you know, well, Imean, there are no government death squads
out there hunting people down who don'tbelieve the way they do. I mean,

(19:49):
but you don't have to go backvery far in history to find exactly
that. You know, kings andqueens sending out the people to you round
up this particular group because our God'sbigger than their God, and off with
their head. You know, youdon't have to go that far back to
find that we've decided that that's nota civilized way to behave in society.

(20:12):
We may argue amongst ourselves, butit doesn't usually go beyond that. And
you know, I was raised towhere your beliefs are yours, my beliefs
are mine, and we leave itlike that. That's I mean. And
I've spoken more on this subject justnow than I have in the last sixty

(20:33):
years publicly. That is so,you know, but what part the your
beliefs, well, the whole thewhole spirituality topic. I don't get into
that because it's none of my business. But it's not even it's not just
I mean it really is spirituality toin the broadest, in the in the
in the in the very spaces.But it's also to do because spirituality influences

(20:56):
a lot of people think and maybeso you know, this is just a
thought process. A lot of peoplethink that spiritual reality that doesn't the history
of it, doesn't play any rolein our behavior currently today as a society
and the things that we accept astrue, um in Western society. But
it does big time. Yeah,yeah, in almost every aspect. Not

(21:21):
every aspect, but almost every aspect. I mean there's yeah, that's what
I mean by we're not good atit, but we do learn from history,
you know, and seeing you know, women tied into chairs and dunked
into a lake because this one overthere said she's a witch. That's not

(21:41):
how civilized people behave. And wehave decided as a society not to do
that kind of thing because we sawwhat happened, you know, So in
the proof and where was the proof? And I mean, so it's Monty
Python on the Holy Grail. Ifshe lays as much of a duck,
she's a witch. Therefore burn her, you know, but could you imagine

(22:03):
and the whole town was like,like, imagine in the pubs and stuff,
they're like, can you believe canyou believe? So? And so
I can't believe she was a witch. Yeah, they did the dunking in
the water test and it was confirmed. And the other guy, I know,
it's like, well, yeah,but those two guys are going to
the are going to be next atthe steak or in the dunking chair because
they were in a pub. Youdon't do pubs in Puritan dimes, you

(22:26):
know. So they did, theydid, they did. They did drink,
they did go they did drink,but they didn't go to pubs.
They didn't go to taverns and thingslike that. Yeah they did, Yeah
they did. They had taverns.They had taverns absolutely in America. And
yeah, later on I'm talking aboutPuritans and you know, Pilgrims and things
like that and that other stuff whenthey stepped off the Yeah. Well no.

(22:52):
But so the point is not thatThe point is that it's silly,
right, it's silly that that thatthey confirmed something with no actual But those
are our standards of proof. Ohthat's what I mean when I say,
that's what I mean when I saywe have the luxury of looking back at
it with the twentieth slash twenty firstcentury set of eyes, because we see

(23:15):
the foolishness of it. We didn'tsee their panic because things were happening they
couldn't explain, so, you know, and it turns out it was a
fungus on rye that was making peoplehallucinate. You know. It's just I
don't know we went from superstition intothat, but I think it matches.

(23:37):
It can and oftentimes very well does, you know. But we all carry
those little things with us, whetherwe want to admit it or not.
And I think some of that stuffis funny. But the problem was the

(24:00):
problem is we don't remember where thosethings came from. You know, you've
heard that whole thing, you know, Uh, Stephan a crack break your
mother's back? Where did that comefrom? You know? I think I
think um O. J. Simpson'slawyer invented that one because he says,

(24:22):
if the if the glove don't fit, you know, it was it was
around before that, because it wasaround the war. But you know it,
so now they're so disjointed and sofar removed because we don't even know
where they come from. It's like, well, what the heck does that
mean? We know that our consciousmind can sit there and say that's absolute

(24:48):
trash, But when you're walking downthe sidewalk, you'll find yourself avoiding those
cracks if you look down. Youknow, we we we do things like
that. No, I don't know, Um, I don't know if it
if it's talk about it. I'mnot trying to contradict you here, but
I just want to say that thatso I'll say this. I saw a

(25:14):
documentary. Um, it wasn't aboutWilliam Shakespeare, but it was about the
dude that wrote a book concerning Shakespeareand whatnot, and the techniques that he
used in the book. And whatwas cool about it, Like I'm paraphrasing

(25:41):
big time, so, but whatwas cool about it is that when you
open a book, you have aregular like page and then the next page
and whatnot. What this guy didthough, and he's not the I don't
believe he's the first one or thelast one. What he did was not
only did he write what you wouldnormally read in the page as the reader

(26:03):
him as the writer, but healso took and he embedded in it multiple
layers of sort of I guess seetapping into little secret explanations and little things
where it's so abundant, but youhave to do math and you have to

(26:26):
do geometry to get to them.And they're there and their copies of the
same saying, using using the mathand using the and reading the letters and
stuff. So he did a triplelayer or or more of meaning from what
one would just simply read a articleor something. You just read it and

(26:48):
that's the information. Well, thesepeople not only have that one level of
meaning, but there's levels of meaningembedded in it even deeper. And so
I think that stuff like like umsuperstitions on the surface level UM or gnomes

(27:08):
and fairies or even darker creatures thatmight come and kill us and whatnot.
Um, there's a surface level thingand we think it's silly and this and
that, But I think that there'salso um embedded in that. Obviously history
and and and a lot of thingsand and other meanings psychologically and all that
where that that that emanates from.So I think that there's there's a lot

(27:33):
to that than just maybe the surfacething. Of course, yes there's no
torry, I mean, come out, but I think that there's things going
on in there. You're absolutely right. And a lot of these things,
and a lot of these superstitions wereinvented out of necessity way back in the
day and corrupted and were changed becausethere was a written language, but most

(28:00):
people couldn't read it or write it, so all these things were passed down
verbally, and things change, Theyget corrupted, meanings change, but the
words don't, or things drop outa use because technology advances and it becomes
an old, obsolete thing, butthat saying is still here. Like on

(28:23):
tenter hooks, ninety percent of thepeople within the sound of my voice have
never heard of a tenter hook.They don't know what a tenter hook is,
but somebody who's nervous and anxious isstill known to be on tenter hooks.
To me, it sounds like somethingyou hang meat from or something like
that. Maybe it's it's tenter hooksare the big frames that they would stretch

(28:48):
Lennen fabric on to dry to getit to nice and smooth. As they
wove the fabric, they would getit wet and stretch it out on these
big frames and it would dry thatway and stay flat. And that was
something that people would see back then, Yeah, it was very common,
and you just don't see it notanymore. I mean, and there used

(29:11):
to be a thriving linen industry herein Oregon, not too far north of
me, about two hours three hoursto the north of me, up until
the nineteen forties, I believe,I know, into well into the thirties.
But it's just not something you see. It's not something you think of.
So I was saying, has kindof gone away. But the meaning

(29:33):
of that word is so lost.Nobody knows where it came from. But
things like the Boogeyman's gonna get you, or the these fairies are going to
grab you and take you away.That was you know that. Yeah,
that was to protect kids, keepkids in the house at night, protect

(29:55):
kids from the predators outside. Itwasn't a boogeyman. It was probably a
wolf or some other kind of apredator out there that would take a kid
away. In Florida, you guysgot alligators, I mean, and there
have been kids grabbed by alligators.There was one of the news a few
years back sitting there at a tableat disney World, and it was,

(30:17):
you know, like a two yearold kid. So those things were done
to kind of yeah, scared,the kids stay in the house. The
tooth fairy was there as kind ofa reward for being good, and the
same with Santa Claus. So webuild up all these all this folklore in
our head as a way of controllingone another, controlling our kids, and

(30:41):
a way of explaining things that wecan't explain. Yeah, I think that
that's true, because you can't sitand you have to do it in a
creative way to teach certain lessons andstuff. It could be second So I
think that that's true. These arecreative stories that help kids, um sort

(31:04):
of you know, get on with. But at the same time, some
of them are pretty crazy oh yeahstories as well. Oh yeah, but
we still fairies, aren't um thethe lovey dovey little um things that people
think that that well that we seewith Disney World in this and that veries

(31:26):
fairies were we're we're we're um,you know, part of a onslaught of
mystical creatures. Yes, they we'regoing to drag you down into a hole
and take you away, you knowexactly. They weren't all Tinkerbell. But
we still use that kind of areference today. If something's broke you know,
we say, oh my god,I hate chasing down electrical gremlins.

(31:48):
That's one of my big ones.All gremlin is a little creature that like
just likes to get in and throwa monkey wrench into the works. That
I mean from the movie The Gremlins. Right, No, it's before that.
Way before that was the word gremlin. Um extract it sounds. So
if it's way before that, itsounds almost maybe some Germanic something um.

(32:12):
I don't remember the exact source.Let's see, or Russian um like Slavic.
It's either Slavic or Germanic, right, um. Gremlin is a mischievous
folkloic creature that causes malfunctions in machinery. Okay, that's basically what it is.

(32:37):
Origins of the of the name grimlin. Uh. It's an imaginary okay.
It's a type of sprite, whichis a type of fairy, an
imaginary, mischievous sprite regarded as responsiblefor an unexplained problem or fault, especially
a mechanical or electrical one. So, you know, we're still ascribing things,

(33:04):
and that was you know, postindustrial revolution, I believe, But
we're still ascribing gnomes and fairies andpixies to things that we know. It
just couldn't be, so I justfound this at the top of the search.

(33:29):
Gremlin denotes a mischievous creature that sabotagesaircrafts. Originates in Royal Air Force
slang among the British pilots stationed inMalta, the Middle East and Indian in
the nineteen twenties, recorded being usedin a poem published in the journal Aeroplane

(33:54):
in Malta in April of nineteen twentynine. Okay, so it's so it's
fairly recent, but still it's amischievous little sprite or creature. It can't
be the fact that somebody did somerotten work or somebody else tried to sabotage

(34:15):
it, or the fact that thingsjust break or wear out, you know.
Oxford says the alternate. Perhaps it'san alteration of goblin. There you
go, There you go. That'san interesting thing. Um. My first
experience with the word gremlin at all, although I've heard that terminology used but

(34:38):
since then, not before that Icould remember, was the movies Gremlin.
Yeah. Well, but it wasalso a car from American Motors. Oh
wait, the AMC Gremlin. Yeah, and you were a little kid.
It was around when you were akid, but American Motors didn't last much

(35:01):
longer. Wow, that was justone of them. Yes, okay,
I think I know which one you'retalking about. It was an ugly little
hatchback. Yeah, okay, allright, yeah, they created the Rambler
and all that other good stuff.In fact, Ramblers merged with a few

(35:21):
other companies and became American Motors.So it was just you know, So
anyway, did this topic, umlike, um open up something for you
because you mentioned that? Why?I haven't because you said that a few
times, well not too many,but a couple of times. Was it

(35:43):
did? Did you? And youryour mind? Because it touched on this
sort of the religious aspect and stuffas as well. So I saw a
little bit of I don't want tosay hesitation, but um you you were
like, well, maybe I'm steppinginto an area that that I don't like
to to discuss spirituality. I reallydon't because and I'm gonna be frank,

(36:05):
and I don't mean this in apersonal way to anybody, to you,
to my wife, to anybody,and that is, your spirituality is none
of my business, and my spiritualityis none of your business, and I
prefer to keep it like that.I mean, and that's just it.
So when we start approaching things thatget a little too close to being spirituality

(36:29):
based, I back away. Iclose Yeah, I back away, and
I kind of close up because Ijust don't want to talk about it.
It's it's every everybody is right andeverybody is wrong both at the same time.
And let's just leave it at that, you know, because yeah,

(36:52):
I don't know that that. Umthat I disagree with that because um but
again that's I couldn't I couldn't helpbut not disagree with it, because it's
a it's a standard baseline Western societything. You by default you must accept.

(37:16):
No, you don't have to accept, but you must understand that your
limit is within it is is thatline that that circumnavigates your body? Okay,
But I'm not disputing that. I'mnot disputing that. What I'm talking
about is the spiritual aspect of it. I know where our legal system cames

(37:37):
from and our sense of our senseof core values came from, and I
find talking about that. But whenit comes to my beliefs, my spirituality
or your beliefs your spirituality, I'drather just kind of back away from that
conversation. It's all good. No, but did you understand what I just
said? But because it sounds likeyou didn't, it sounds like sounds like

(38:01):
like I was agreeing with you.Yeah, I know that, and I
was. I was just amplifying thatpoint. And that's why I don't pursue
that type of discussion. Yeah.Yeah, But again again, that idea
of you do you and I dome? Is something you know and and

(38:23):
allow for variation, is something that'sreally more to do with a civil civilization
slant in the direction of the ofthe West due to the Enlightenment and from
the Renaissance, And it has todo with that. And it doesn't just
encompass religion or spirituality, although that'sa factor. It's human experience and human

(38:49):
law and psychology and the way tolook at the world and all that.
Um. It's it's it's something thatthat even people that disagree agree without saying
it. And it's more than justallowing that difference in opinion. It's acknowledgement
and acceptance that there are different opinions. You know, because you and I

(39:10):
both know people who just it's myway or the highway that's just it,
and it doesn't matter what topic you'rediscussing, but the fact that there are
alternate opinions out there, One wouldbe better served to not only acknowledge the
fact that there are differing opinions,except the fact that there are differing opinions

(39:34):
and there's very little you can doto change those opinions because opinions are personal
and that's just it, you know. So yeah, in another part of
the world with a different slant onthat, that would not be the case.
I saw the video recently that Ihad seen maybe a year ago,

(39:58):
and it was a little bit disturbing. I had seen it already, so
I wasn't too shocked about it.I should be shocked about it every time
I see it, but it hadto do. It was a report on
what they do in China with theirelectronics, and they have a credit system

(40:22):
per person, And what it isis that you society at large, you
go out and you interact with theworld around you, and all your interactions
are digitally electronically track and scored,and people, depending on a variation in

(40:44):
that score higher or less could beor could face lockout from financial institutions purchasing
certain items getting on the subway,their subway system or whatever. They had
two um people that they interviewed.They had Citizen A plus and Citizen F

(41:08):
minus. And so citizen A pluswas a lady with her family and whatnot.
And she's always making sure that everythingshe does throughout society is polite,
so her score can be high.And I think the score had to be
like, uh, seven hundred andsomething is a good score. Um,

(41:30):
but if it's it's lower than sixhundred, you're you're you're basically like yeah,
kind of like her credit score.Well, Um, she did everything
right. She would wait if somebodytried to get in quick, she'd let
the person get on the bus first. Um, just everything she did and
her choices of food. If youbuy liquor, that counts against you.

(41:52):
They sell liquor, but if youbuy it a little by little, that
counts against you. So she's beenwell. The other guy wrote a scathing
article because he's like a journalist guyUM on that topic, and his score
went down to the um. Hewent and tried to get on the subway.

(42:15):
He couldn't do it. It said, denied access and for some people
they plaster your face. Yeah,in public squares on digital videos, saying
this person's score is so and soand so, like it's public, so
it's literally a technological um. It'skind of it's literally orwell in h yes,

(42:43):
and it's it's playing out um overthere. As much as people don't
want to think about it or evenadmit it, China is still a totalitarian
communist regime. And that's what theydo. That's how you control the people.
You know, it's one way youcontrol the people. The other way

(43:04):
is tanks through tenements. Tiana Mansquare. Well, yeah, so,
and what's interesting is that the guyat the end, just about the end
of the clip, it was likea six minute clip where they just go
through the thing like we see everynow and then with different clips. At
the end of the clip, hesaid, I'm just and they would translate
right because it was and he said, you know, I'm just doing this.

(43:28):
I'm even though I'm getting the scorethat I get, that I get,
but if somebody doesn't speak out oneday, one day, we'll lose
our freedoms, he said. AndI was like, that was telling well
compared to what it was within mylifetime, I mean thirty years ago when

(43:49):
there were tanks in Tianaman Square.They have their freedoms have I mean multiplied
by a thousand, you know it. So I guess he kind of sees
the handwriting on the wall that theYes, they've backed off quite a bit
from the bad old days, butthey could trick crack down again in a

(44:12):
minute. You know. They havethe second largest standing army on Earth.
I see that's also their police force. So yeah, that's not good now.
I see, I see another littlelesson snuck in there, um where
this guy is aware because it's painfullyevident, because he's been you know,

(44:42):
plummeting in his his pop, hisscores, his social force. Um.
But I see a guy that evenwith all this going on, there's a
notion of freedom from his vantage pointthat can still be lost from the vantage
point of any reasonable western just asa large broad category. That train left

(45:13):
the station, it can always beworse. Like you were mentioned, everything
is ready. Yeah, that trainleft the station a long time ago.
And it's and it's interesting how thehuman psychology within a given scenario that one
plays out, um works it outin their head. But they're freaking lost,

(45:37):
dude, or they're going in frommy perspective, they're gone. Everything
is relative. Everything is relative becausewe are the sum of our experiences.
So we can only speak from thislevel. We can only speak from our
experiences. And you know, thegrass is always greener, but the grass

(45:59):
is always brown, or if youturn the other direction. So you know,
I don't know. Somewhere in themiddle lies happiness, and I think,
to me, happiness is just it'snone of my business. It's none
of my business. I'm serious somethingyou don't know. You don't know how

(46:22):
much happier I am now that Ithink that it's none of my business,
you know, because because it is. It's the the guy with the scores
and the whole things. I canempathize with him, but that's all I
can do. So from there Ihave to I have to flush it and
say it's none of my business andmove on to something else, because if

(46:43):
I don't, I know my personality. If I don't, I will go
down that rabbit hole and I willwatch YouTube video after YouTube video after YouTube
video, and I'll get angry andangry or and angrier to what end.
The only they say, I canonly control my reaction to something. I
can't control somebody else's reaction, andI can't control their situation. If I'm

(47:06):
right there personally, or I havesome sort of interaction with that person,
I can kind of help, Ican share my experience or kind of help
them look for resources. But that'sas far as I can go. I
can't stand there and force somebody todo something, you know. Yeah,
And that's what I was talking aboutwith accepting and acknowledging versus allowing, because

(47:30):
I'm not in a position to allowanybody to do anything. They're going to
do what they want to do.But what I can do is acknowledge it
and accept it, and that's it. So I never truly realized until I
was in my fifties, my earlyfifties, I figured there's things that are
none of my business, and thereare things that are in my business.

(47:52):
And I never truly realized how fewthings actually are in my business until I
started thinking of them in those terms. Yeah, it's just it, and
and I'm so much happier and lifeis so much easier now. Well,

(48:14):
so you know, there's different erasthroughout or different I guess parts of the
play as one from the first chapterto the last chapter. In the play
of life, and the person inchapter one is nowhere's near what she or

(48:40):
her or she would look like inin the middle of the book or whatever,
because between those pages a lot ofthings have happened, and that protagonists
of that story has had to adapt, grow, make decisions, and none

(49:01):
of those things leave the person unscathed. And so you know, um,
this is a human thing. Soyou know, you can't so I understand
that. So Mark at you know, uh in nineteen seventy nine would have
been uh, mark minus all theyears of experience up until now. Yeah,

(49:25):
exactly from that point till now,however, good and bad exactly we'll
see that that was what I wasgonna say, Um, good and bad.
Um. So that chunk of experiencefrom that point forward till now U
is all this stuff. And there'sno way that that one dude back then

(49:49):
he could have assumed it, becauseyou know, at the end of the
day, he's human like everybody else, So he could have assumed a lot
of stuff, but he wouldn't haveknown. Impossible to know all the different
left turns, right turns, upand down. Um, cutting across the
way and going this way and thatway is just too much for and you

(50:10):
know, it's just a natural process. So everybody goes through that. But
here's the thing that I wanted tosay. So your your UM, the
things you've arrived at at this pointin time for you. UM. So
let's say there's one hundred items thatyou've arrived at, although there's probably endless

(50:31):
amount of items that you've arrived at, but you've arrived at. And this
is just me thinking, UM,you've arrived at all these items because you've
lived experience. UM. You canhave one hundred other people at your station
in life, let's say roughly thereaboutsyou know that have had an experienced chunk

(50:54):
from from you know more or lessthe same you know UM and or and
and yet maybe arrive at the sameconclusions, maybe arrive at different conclusions,
and maybe either UM decide and approachthe way one interacts and deals and whatnot

(51:20):
UM differently than you and some thesame and so honestly, so it's not
evident, it's not Some things areare are are are very base given obvious
UM knowledge based stuff, and otherthings that are more esoteric and stuff are
more on the fence for some people. In other words, two people with

(51:40):
the same experience time. Sure,all things being equal with let's say equal
intelligence and wisdom, because there's there'speople walking around that are in your station
in life that I'm assuming here arecompletely like just like like they have no
idea what the hell is going?Yeah, so so you know, barring

(52:02):
them, but another another intelligent holdon, let me just say this one
thing. Another person that's intelligent andand and and and you know they they
they're collecting information they can realize andyou pair them with with you, like
on the track, it's it's quitepossible that they would make other decisions than

(52:22):
than according to the conclusions that you'vearrived at. Sure, absolutely, so
I find that that very interesting.You know that whole thing interesting. People
are people, And I'm not someself awareness goofball or anything like that.
You know, I've never read amotivational book or seeing a motivational speech in

(52:46):
my life that I'm aware of.But when you get to the point to
where you stand to lose more thanyou could ever hope to gain if you
don't really examine your life and seewhat you're doing to yourself and what you're

(53:07):
doing to the people around you.Because I'm not kidding you, I was
the most argumentative idiot you'd ever seenin your life. I had an opinion
on everything. My opinion was right, and you are going to hear it.
That's all there is to it.See, don't get me wrong.
I know what is my well,I kind of know what is my business

(53:29):
and what isn't my business. Itdoesn't mean I don't care. I can
care deeply. It doesn't mean thatI don't have empathy, and I do
try to help where I can.I'm one person doing what I can as
one person, and I genuinely dotry to help. But all I can

(53:49):
do is what I can do.I'm in no position to control somebody else,
so and I'm certainly in no positionto try to control your opinions.
But that's the way I was.I wanted the absolute freedom to control one
hundred percent of my life while retainingthe right to control yours as well.

(54:13):
Made sure you were tipped off tomy wisdom and you conformed to my opinions.
That's the way I was. Andlike that, Oh, from about
my mid twenties on, I justknew what was right. But was that
hard line? Yeah? I couldput on I could put on faces because

(54:35):
I did work with the public.So I could put on my nice casino
face, or my nice retail face, or my nice you know, whatever
face I needed to put on.And I was in the military during a
certain portion of that time, soI had to be subservient to those who
were higher ranked to me. Youknow, I knew the rules. I
outranked some people, and more peopleoutranked me, and I knew those rules.

(55:00):
I could operate within those rules.But me as a person, my
personality, I was not a niceindividual, and I got tired of not
being I got tired of being anot nice individual. So did you spend
that fuel or did you make ahard break? Did you put your foot
on the brakes and say, Okay, I'm gonna spent the fuel. It

(55:23):
was. It was it was kindof noticing things here and there along the
way, and these things started happeningmore often. I would never admit that
I was wrong, your source waswrong, or your source couldn't be trusted,
and but too many things just didn'tadd up a little bit. Yeah,

(55:51):
I would say, you still havea little bit of you know,
at the bottom of the of agas tank. Yeah, but but oh
yeah, they're still there. Iam not perfect believe me. You still
you still in the bottom of thegas actors still enough enough, that is
as as as late as yesterday,because it wasn't today. I was walking

(56:13):
through on my way from this roomto another room down the hallway, asked
the TV and it was a commercial. Yeah, and they said something and
I had a snide comment to throwback at it. Yeah, well that's
a bunch of crap. I don'teven know what the commercial was about,
but I had an opinion on it. Yeah, but that's not but okay,

(56:34):
but I was that anything and everything, okay, all right, Well
because a little bit of that orI don't even know what the line is.
Um, I just that's a veryinteresting thing, dude. It was
all about me. You just didn'thave the memo. That's that's that's a
that's a tough one. But thefact that you that you put up because

(56:58):
that's not the mark that I know. Obviously we have the interactions that we
have, but we've you know,we we've we've we've we've known each other
now for a while and this medium, through this thing we've talked about,
it is really um as exposed aswe would not have as many I don't
think that we would have as muchin depth conversations if we were just hanging

(57:22):
out, we wouldn't be friends.You wouldn't have been able to stand me.
Well oh yeah, but let's not. Let's not. Let's well,
if you're saying that, I'm serious, but well, well no, but
okay, So what I'm saying isthat, well, that throws a wrench
in the whole thing, because that'sa difficult one. But like the fact

(57:43):
that we're doing it like this,well, you know what put that to
the side. The fact that yousaid that at one point you notice stuff
and then you said, you knowwhat, this is bullcrap and and whatnot?
That that because you're that's not theperson that I've no. I found
myself saying more and more often,but the hell are you doing? What

(58:05):
the hell are you doing? Youknow, what the hell? Why did
you say that? What the hellare you doing? And it just and
it wasn't personal attacks or anything likethat. It's just if somebody said something
was black, I would not onlytell you no, it's blue. I
would tell you how how wrong youwere while explaining to you how blue it

(58:27):
was. You know, it wasn'ta belittle meant thing. It wasn't meant
to make you look small. Itwas meant to make me look big.
And I was just being a jerkand that's all there was doing. Wow,
And you know either I'm I'm I'mcompletely I don't see that at all.
Thank you. No, I dogreat job. Thank you. No,

(58:50):
I don't Number one, I don'tsee see two things you have no
idea, and neither do I.In reverse of all, I mean,
we do talk a lot, sowe know a lot, but of all
that goes on in our heads thatwe don't say because it's a library and

(59:13):
it's constantly being updated, and youknow, and there's some things like like
like that you don't want to know, like you know, how was your
experience on the toilet today? Butthere's a lot of different things. So
it's it's an incredible thing. Ican't all I pick up from you in

(59:34):
throughout all these years is an activelyhow could I put it? Um disciplined.
Sometimes I see a little bit oflike well, sticking to your guns,
although when we had a few ofthose when it comes to certain discussions,
but it's within reason. I've neverseen it not reason, So I

(59:59):
never got I never got violent Idon't have a violent bone in my body.
I was just very opinionated and cockyand sure of myself, and I
had an opinion on everything, andI made sure everybody knew it, whether
they wanted to or not. AndI was just not a nice person.

(01:00:20):
That doesn't mean I was mean,No, I was. I was never
mean or cruel or anything like that. I just was. It was all
about me. And you don't knowwho I am. You didn't get the
memo. You know, I'm smarterthan the average bear and his twelve cousins,
And I'm gonna make sure you knowit. It was. It was,

(01:00:44):
And I just got tired of secondguessing myself. And I had to
just kind of take a real long, hard look at myself and say,
you know, if you were meetingyou for the first time this month,
what would your opinion be of yourself? And I just I got tired of

(01:01:04):
being mad all the time. Igot tired of finding looking for and finding
things that made me angry because peopleweren't doing things the right way and if
they just shut up and listen tome, the world would be a better
place and it would for you.Oh no, because I'd find something else.
Oh, so there was no,absolutely none. I knew everything I

(01:01:28):
knew. I just knew how tocure all the world's problems. And if
people would just shut up and listenfor a minute, we could all go
on our merry way. But Iwould find other things too. You know,
you should have done it sooner.How come we had to wait until
now? I still do that alittle bit. Here we're having this discussion
and it's twenty twenty two. Whyare we still having this discussion. This

(01:01:51):
was solved years ago. Mark,It ain't about you knock it off,
No, But it's a lesson.You know what it is though it is
a number one. It's it's valuablebecause what is it that we do.
We talk about things that we talkabout, and sometimes we talk about things
that are meaningful. And sometimes there'slessons that other people we don't know might

(01:02:17):
who knows here and reflect and helpout another person. So sometimes you know
what I'm saying, So this might, yeah, And wisdom comes from some
of the weirdest places. I hearda quote by Will Rogers. I've actually

(01:02:38):
read it in a book, andthat was an ignorant person is somebody who
doesn't know a fact You just learnedyourself. Kay, And that right there
made me kind of do it twosteps back, little Rascal's devil take you

(01:03:00):
know, you like, wait aminute, how many times have you read
about something in a book and thengo on and preached about it to somebody
else, not necessarily preached about it, just all of a sudden, acted
like suddenly you're an authority, youknow how to do this stuff, or
you know what you're talking about.You just read it yesterday. You didn't
know a thing about it, youknow, an instant expert. That was

(01:03:23):
me, you know. And it'sfunny when I started looking, and that's
the hard part, I think foreverybody, because nobody likes to admit their
faults. And when I started seeingthose faults, admitting them and then trying

(01:03:43):
to do my best to change them, I started being happier, and I
started I think I'm more pleasant tobe around. I hope I'm more pleasant
to be around. And in mymind I would have to be simply because
I'm using a lower tone of voicenumber one and I'm not you know,

(01:04:05):
shaking the finger all the time.That's a tough one. So dude,
um, just because so you know, that is so Now I won't say
I have innumerable false people people ofpeople, man um. But my problem

(01:04:27):
I don't. It's hard to say. But my problem is that when I
was a little kid. I've toldyou before, but if somebody like a
girlfriend, um, where I couldstop her from from like leaving and stuff
by just saying a few choice words. Even when I was a kid,
my thought was, well, thisis your decision and you have made it,
so I would not. I never, it's a weird thing, So

(01:04:51):
I go, I'm kind of likeyou other even though I will argue points,
especially now as an adult. UM, but I don't necessarily wants it's
a it's a it's it's it's aweird thing. But the point is that
that I never it was on theother direction. But what happened is that
then you become a little bit Idon't want to say, a pushover,

(01:05:13):
but but yeah, but in away, in a way like I you
know, I know I can interactand let's get down to the litty gritty
here. But um, people's freeum decisions. UM, I would respect,
for the most part, to thepoint of injury to me, say,
I wouldn't right, so I wouldgo in that direction. But I

(01:05:36):
think that has to do with lessonsthat my parents taught me. Because um,
freedom was denied. There's like somesort of domino effect and then I
inherited it that. Yeah, youhave that history that I didn't have.
My my family's been in this countryfor so since before it was a country.
Yeah, but so I'm so farremoved from anything like that that it's

(01:05:59):
it's a or in concept to me, whereas you are the result of that.
I mean, you are first generationAmerican. So yeah, it's a
little bit closer to home for you, and I didn't. I had nothing.
I can't relate to that at all. Plus it's not like you know,
on top of that, to adda layer to the cake. Plus

(01:06:20):
it was this prepping of a dystopiansort of like authoritative authoritarian. Yeah,
and so then there was a littlebit more lucy goosey with allowing me to
make my own decisions. So there'sall these varieties and people and stuff,

(01:06:40):
and yeah, let's see, you'vehad those experiences that I've experiences that I've
never had. So I can't relateto that, and that's why I find
it interesting to talk to you aboutthat kind of thing. Behind the scenes
because it's for my education and myown curiosity. I'm still curious about a
lot of stuff. I'm just notas eager to form opinions that I know

(01:07:08):
are one percent fact. There aremultiple sides to that coin. There's not
just two sides to that coin.There's not there's that ridge right around in
the middle there, and nobody exploresit. I'm sure glad then that I
didn't release the topic that that itwasn't really I wasn't gonna do it.
But but I'll let let you knownow and if you want to say something,

(01:07:31):
and then we'll end it with that. But I just you're you're not
gonna I came across an awesome conspiracyand that's why I stay out of those.
Hey hey, no, but I'mgonna tell you what. Dinosaurs did
not exist. There's a whole worldof dinosaurs did not exist and there.

(01:07:57):
I haven't watched the video, butI saw it. I was like,
Oh, that's gonna be awesome.Look into aircraft don't exist. Aircrafts.
Aircrafts don't exist. Helicopters are amyth. Airplanes are a myth. Look
into that, oh, dude,because they're out there I'm telling you they're
out there. No, okay,but hold on, hold on the last

(01:08:17):
thing, because I don't worry.But if so I can entertain there's a
thing out there that they explain.You can entertain an idea and not make
it yours and not believe it.So I can entertain an idea, many
ideas and not accept it. Likewhen we talk about like the earth plane
and or the rocket, lemon thingand stuff or lizard people. I don't

(01:08:42):
believe those things, but I wantto see how far that can go.
I know we're different than that.But yeah, but at least there's material
that they can play around with.But no planes. That's gonna be a
tough one. Yeah, they needto produce at at least some there.
There are no aircraft. There's nosuch thing as a satellite. We have

(01:09:06):
never had a photograph of the Earth. Not only did man not walk on
the moon, they've never left theground. There are people out there,
look it up. There are peopleout there that believe Australia is a myth.
It doesn't exist, which came asto a surprise to everybody that lives
there. But you know that Australiadoes not exist. Yeah, look at

(01:09:31):
up. There's some funny stuff goingon out there. But see the thing
is, now I can, Ican kind of, you know, hear
that and let it roll off,where before I would be in the middle
of it and i'd be that guyin the comment section. That's pretty uh
So I'm shocked by it. You'veyou told me about this before, but

(01:09:54):
you you, you you you.You laid it out in in a very
good way and a very clear way, and I have to tell you,
um, I don't. It's Ican picture it because you've laid it out,
but I can't internalize it as youas you. But then again,

(01:10:15):
I can't be in your head,so I don't know. But I don't
see you know, you don't wantto be in my head. It's dark
and scary in there. So yeah, well but you see what I'm saying.
So you're the perception that you giveout and then I process in my
head has nothing to do with withthan that you said. And I'm a

(01:10:39):
happier person for it, I reallyam. I'm I'm like I said,
I hope I'm more pleasant to bearound, but I'm I'm not angry all
the time. I'm not sure thatpeople are. I never thought people were
out to get me, but Iknew that if something went wrong, it
couldn't be my fault. It hadto been an outside force somebody did.

(01:11:00):
My favorite phrase used to be fully, two thirds of the problems I've had
in my life were as a resultof expecting somebody to do their job,
when actually two thirds of the problemsthat I had in my life was a
roadblock I either put into place,didn't put into place, or failing to
follow up on something. You know, I see I shouldn't have to do

(01:11:24):
that. Well, you do haveto do that, So take some responsibility,
do that follow up, and you'dbe amazed at how much things goes
your way. Interesting, you know, it's kind of the simple thing.
If you've had your lights turned offbecause you can't pay the bill, to
me, that means you didn't callthem and talk to them. They'll work

(01:11:47):
with you. I've done it,but I never would before. It was
those a holes at the power company. We're doing this to me? Yeah,
it was me calling him up tosay I had a car insurance payment,
had a flat tire, I hadthis. Can we work out a
deal. They're more than willing towork out but I deal with you.

(01:12:10):
But you have to be the oneto tell them they don't know what's going
on in your life. That Ithink that that's you know what, that
that's I am a kind of likeleft set back a little bit. There's
a lot there and it very verypowerful stuff. I mean, not just

(01:12:33):
another pretty mustache man. No,no, you know, I mean the
mustache is great, but it's it'swhat's behind the mustache. That's that the
count. I'm like an onion,donkey, I'm like an onion. Yeah.
That was This was some good.This was like very powerful stuff,
I have to say. And alsobecause it sort of um pushed back at

(01:12:56):
me. Um, now having tofigure out how can I even how can
I fit that in my brain?You know, the your I can't overthink
it. Don't overthink it. Butand and and that comes back to me,
don't overthink it. It just isall right. We'll leave it at

(01:13:16):
that. I think that that's freakingawesome. What a to me? I
oops, now you're going to callattention to it. Let's let's let's land
the fictitious mythical plane. Yeah allright, so um well, folks,

(01:13:38):
that was our show. We golive every Tuesday nine thirty Eastern six thirty
Pacific coast time, and we dothat here on the Trampled Underfoot Podcast show
on YouTube and it goes live everyTuesday, the audio portion of it from
speaker which you can catch on yourfavorite UM podcast. So we also have

(01:14:00):
a website and that's called Trampled Underfootpodcast dot com. You can catch our
past episodes over there, and wehave a Facebook page with the same name.
You can leave us, you know, a couple of words of advised
comments if you like that you didn't, or check out the images and videos

(01:14:23):
that we post according to the topicsthat we discuss each night. So that's
about it. But we're also sponsoredby Harneil Media, your one stop website
shop, the Man with the Plan. If you're trying to develop a web
presence and you feel the need fora website, Steve is your man.

(01:14:44):
If you already have a web presencebut you'd like to develop it a little
bit further, Steve is your man. He can set you up with a
web store. He can set youup with a website. He can set
you up with a print on toMan's service that will take your designs and
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(01:15:09):
They take care of the inventory,they take care of the shipping,
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That's h A r n e ALmedia dot com, sponsor of Trampled
Underfoot podcast dot com. All right, well, listen, folks, enjoy

(01:15:33):
the rest of your week, andjust as an aside, hopefully the earth
will still be here next week.Um always the other thing. We live
in some some some crazy times here. Regardless of that, enjoy yourselves and
be good till next time. Peace,