October 10, 2025 • 31 mins
Frank/Sports Card CPA has arguably the greatest baseball Hall of Fame autograph collection and he's our guest this week.
Talking points on this episode may include:
*Why Autographs?
*When did he decide to try to get every Hall of Famer.
*Stories of acquisitions.
*Advice to avoid fakes.
*CPA Hobby advice
*Common tax mistakes.
*What can be written off.
*Claiming losses.
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https://linktr.ee/Sportscardna...
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Talking points on this episode may include:
*Why Autographs?
*When did he decide to try to get every Hall of Famer.
*Stories of acquisitions.
*Advice to avoid fakes.
*CPA Hobby advice
*Common tax mistakes.
*What can be written off.
*Claiming losses.
Follow us on Social Media:
Website:
https://www.sportscardnationpo....com
https://linktr.ee/Sportscardna...
Merch shop:
https://sports-card-nation.pri...
To eliminate pre & post-roll ads
https://www.spreaker.com/podca...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sports guard Nations, Hobbies, the People, Wheely News and Interviews.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's your number one song.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Sports garn Nations hobby is the people.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Sports guy Nation.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
What is up, everybody? Welcome to episode three fifty seven,
aka the magnum episode of Sportscardination. As always, glad to
be back, Happy Friday if you're listening to this on
release day, and we got a great guest today, Frank
the sports card CPA's got probably the greatest single Hall
(00:45):
of Fame Baseball collection, probably on the planet, or one
of them. He's definitely in the running. Has over three
hundred of the three hundred and fifty Baseball Hall of
Famers autographs and including many of the big ones and
all the current anyone that's alive. He has all of
(01:06):
those as well and is only missing fifty more. And
he's an accountant CPA who does a lot of work
any sports card hobby. So we're going to talk about
his collection, how he decided to go for it, tackle it.
We're going to talk to him about some mistakes or
(01:27):
things you can do as a hobbyist or a dealer
who files taxes as well. A lot of great info
jam packed into the next two weeks of show with Frank,
so I had a blast talking to him. I think
you'll enjoy some of the topics we cover a little
different than the norm, if you will, which is to
(01:49):
me always fun and always cool to do. As always
want to thank our sponsors, in no particular order, Iron
Sports Cards, Rob doing bulk subs PSA STC doing very
well and one of the best guys for that, and
Sports Collectors Digest blessed to be able to write for them.
(02:13):
Hobby Hotline are every week Saturday morning live show that
appeared on the four Collectors Network, and Upper Deck who
allows us to review and open some product and give
away some stuff as well. So with that out of
the way, let's get the show underway. I'm real excited
(02:48):
of this next gentleman on sports cardination. I met him
a few months back in Chicago at the National and
he gave me a business card, and very interesting to
talk about him as a whole. He's a collector like
most of us who are listening to the show, but
he's also a CPA who kind of specializes on the
(03:10):
sports card side of the house as well. So I
want to welcome to the show, Frank the Sports Card CPA.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Welcome Frank, Hey, now John, this is very exciting to
have me on.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I've watched this podcast for years, so very excited to
be actually invited to be on the Podcaskey for having me.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Well, I appreciate, thank you for your time and coming
on and you know, getting to meet you obviously in Chicago.
Like I've told you before recording, I'm a dealer, so
you know, any type and we'll get into the nuts
and both of us. But you know, I don't think
you know if you're a dealer who who profits or
makes money in the hobby. Obviously we got to pay
(03:48):
our sales tax and that's not avoidable. But when it
comes to income taxes and other taxes depending on obviously
what state you live in, I think it's you know,
the more you know, the more you have someone who
can help you or do your taxes, I think the
better off you are. And it's just you know, from
being in the tax laws change every year and for
(04:12):
the lay person is not going to know all about that,
where someone who's like yourself, who's in that line of
work is going to be right on tap top of
that stuff. So I don't think we talk about that
segment enough and again we'll get into it more here
in a little bit. I want to start out with,
(04:33):
you know, Frank the hobby as Frank the collector. You know,
kind of where did for you? When did the hobby
start as a as a hobbyist?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
The hobby started for me personally In nineteen eighty three,
my father took me to a baseball card show featuring
Mark the Berg Fidrich and I was six years old
at the time. I really didn't know what Mark Fidrick was,
but he was, let's say, he was as popular as
Autony Let's in the Detroit when when I was a
(05:01):
real young child, and so I got to meet him.
That's when I got my first of many many Baseball
Hall of Fame autograph. And for those of you that
have watched my channel, I used to be called Baseball
Hall of Fame Autographs. I recently did a rebrand as
a sports car at CPA.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
But as you can see behind me, I love collecting.
I really don't sell.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I just collect Baseball Hall of Fame autographs with the
impossible goal of getting every single Baseball Hall.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Let me let me peggyback of that alive and deceased or.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
All three hundred and fifty one Baseball Hall of Famers, yes, alive,
it doesn't matter. I currently stand at three hundred and one.
I need exactly fifty left. And they're all very, very
tough names. We're talking five figures.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yeah, and obviously that number goes up with each new
induction class. E add those to the arsenal or to
the collection. Correct, Yeah, what I mean what obviously you
said about forty nine or fifty short of completion? I mean,
what's what's the big one that that will be the
toughest of those? They're all tough in their own right,
(06:10):
but what what one do you think? See the number one?
Toughest number one.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Again, a lot of these guys I probably your listeners
have never heard of. For example, they're so named Frank Grant,
the Turn of the League, eagerly player. Rumor is he
was illiterate, and there's not a single autograph known to this.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
There's a lot of other guys especially.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Well that shouldn't that shouldn't count. Like I'm not saying
obviously he's in the Hall of Fame, that that counts.
And he was a heck of a player. But if
he if there don't exist. It's not like you're missing.
If something really doesn't exist, you're not really missing, you
know what I mean. It's like a set where the
card wasn't produced.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So you say it was produced but never released, so
maybe one will come out, But uh, I call I
count them all the same. I count favorite with the
same weight as Harold Bains. If you're in the Hall
of Fame, you're in the Hall of Fame. I need
your autograph, whether it exists or not. Probably the most
common household name of any autograph I need that your
listeners would have heard of is Christy Mathewson.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Obviously nineteen thirty six conductee.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Who passed away about a couple of years before that,
unfortunately because of tuberculosis. I know something to do with
chemical warfare. So he passed away very young, when the
hobby was in its infant and it just makes his
autograph very challenging to get. And what I do is,
if you watch my channel, I do an autograph analysis
of every single Baseball Hall of Fame. Obviously we talk
(07:34):
about Frank Grant. I did a less than a minute
video because no known examples exist. But when I talked
about Christy Mathewson. There's just so many forgeries out there.
You really need to be careful when you're going to
buy it. And without going into details, I mean, I
know a lot of the TPAs people that work for
the TPS, and they're all great people, but even they
will tell you they made So if you're looking for autographs,
(07:56):
it doesn't matter hall of famer, not hall of famer,
current veteran, whatever passed away, long as do your research.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I always say, buy the autograph, not by this.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Yeah, great point by you too, Frank right, these are humans, right,
When humans make mistakes, that's that's part of life. It
can happen. But you nailed it right on the head, right,
Especially with an autograph of significance, of significant value, you
can't do too much research and investigate. You can only
do too little, especially when making a purchase.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So, like I brought out a few autographs, and I've
shown these before in my channel, but like one of
the rare head, one of the rarest I have and
I don't know if you're listening, this is a Frank
Chance autograph of Tinkers to Evers to Chance. There's probably
ten known autographs and this one's just a beauty because
it's on his letterhead, Frank l Chance with a branch.
If you go on the PSA database, this is the
(08:51):
single autograph that they refer to on the database. And
like I said, I bought the autograph. There's a lot
of cuts out there. I stopped buying cuts after I
had a very bad experience. Again you can watch with
one of these. I bought a cut autograph from a
very reputable dealer, and unfortunately it was deemed not authentic.
I don't want to say fake, it was deemed not authentic.
(09:11):
And what the problem is, once the autograph is deemed
non authentic, it goes into their database.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Is non authentic.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
You may not know this, but the TPAs do share
their database and therefore it would probably never be authentic
even if it was real. So therefore, even though I
have no plans on selling that autograph, I couldn't get
a grade. And therefore if my descendants ever wanted to
sell it, it was pretty much worthless.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
So it was a very expensive lesson.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Learned about cuts versus buying the provenance of the autograph.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
We've heard, you know recently, I'm sure you heard about
the big forgery scandal of course I'm not going to
give his name. He obviously committed suicide. I'm not going to,
you know, and obviously that's a big story. And it
doesn't just hurt people who collect autograph I think it
hurts the hobby in general. I've heard the FBI run
(10:02):
estimates that they believe fifty percent of autographs in the
marketplace are non authentic, in other words, half. I mean,
what again, it's all speculation. Does does that sound right
to you, Frank about half autographs or are not legit?
Or does that sound too high?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
That's me personally, I think that sounds too high in
the sense that if you buy an autograph that has
let's say a Repid Oll, TDA and I'm gonna name
the big three JSA, Beckett and PSA, I would say
over ninety percent of those autographs are good. Again, I
would not be buying an autograph today of a very
(10:41):
high value player without one of those big SERTs if
you don't know what you're buying. I mean, again, they've
all made mistakes. But if you go on eBay, I'm
sure that fifty percent number is higher than normal. But
as like one of the headset, if it's too good
of a deal. I mean, if it's the price is
too good, it's too.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Good of a deal. Of course, the cliche is escaping
me right now. But yeah, probably that numbers.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Good to be true.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
It probably is.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, thank you, thank you, John So like anyways, getting
back to that, so, yeah, if you look at Mickey
Mantle probably on eBay right now, probably I would say
maybe fifty percent are fake. But again, over all those
are nearly all those fifty percent that are fake are
probably under one hundred dollars. So if you're paying under
one hundred dollars for a Mickey man all, if it's
(11:28):
too good to be true, it probably is, So do
your research. I mean, Mickey Mantle probably one of the
most forged baseball players at least of all times in
terms of autographs.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I did a video about it.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
It's gotten on a close to ten thousand news now
and you really there were let's say five main forger
around the two thousands with all Operation Bullpen, and they're
really easy to the trained eye spot and fake and
say this no good and the TPA is again I'll
know this.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
None of these got through third party. You shouldn't say none.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Very weird yeah, Mickey Mickey definitely, it's number one on
the most fugazi autograph list. You got Jordans on the
basketball side of the house as well. I believe me,
I have Mickey Man autos that are legitimate and certified,
and I've I've had in my hand many of a
lot of his that I know just by looking at it.
(12:21):
And I'm not even a certification guy. But yeah, and
like you said, if if you're looking at him Mickey
Man auto and someone just asking a hundred bucks that
you usually just run, just run, that's a pretty obvious
uh signal that that is not so.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I mean, the big forgery about a couple of years
ago was the Willie May say Hey holograms, which a
lot of TPAs unfortunately accepted the hologram must be real. Again,
I don't want to know the name, but safety it's
very similar to Berry bonds, and I was very fortunate
Darren Ravel reached out to me because, like I exposed
a pretty early that these were bad autographs and what
(13:02):
to look for. But again, probably, like I would say,
Willie Mays is the number one autograph that has been
passed by tpa's that are forced. If I had to
take one to be careful, it's gonna be Willie May.
So and they all have to say, hey, hologram. They
all look very similar. So besides that is that he
passed away, like I said last year, so he's obviously
(13:23):
had players have an influx when they passed away. And
so that's that's that's the exception, not the norm. The
TPAs are all good people. They're not trying to steal
your money.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Yeah, that's a tough if you if you've if you
know about Willie May's autograph, that's a tough autograph too
to duplicate if you're a forger, you know. But to
get corecked, these these unscrupulous people practiced air craft repeatedly
and then you know, then you got auto pen issues.
Like it's not just all necessary handwritten things. You know,
(13:53):
in the forties and fifties you had the clubhouse signatures
where a bat boy or a clubby U learned how
to do players on that team's signature to take the
workload in the sense off of them. And back then too,
it was a little more innocent than it would be
today because there wasn't like a huge marketplace like we
(14:15):
know now. That was just hey, kid, you know, sign
these for me so I can do some other stuff.
But yeah, still not you know, talk a little bit
about that, especially on the Hall of Fame stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I mean, the most famous one is the nineteen fifty
five Dodgers that won the world too. There was a guy,
a bat Boy clubhouse attendant and his nickname was the Bro.
You're likek at you to Bro, and he Duke Snyder,
said he could sign my name better than I can.
And so I've actually seen him in person, where the
guys are like, I got this baseball for the nineteeny
five Dodgers. It's real. They had this great story how
(14:50):
it was passed down. I mean, autograph experts now can
probably spot the differences. There's certain things to look for.
But again that's probably when the secretarial really took effect
that it became really good. Prior to that, like like
Luke Gherg and Babe Ruth, yes they had secretarial signatures,
but they were not real close to what their actual
(15:11):
signatures look like. Again, the nineteen fifty five is kind
of the turning point where like, wow, he's been close.
And going back to what you said with the recent
autograph scandal, that broke without giving you information. The majority
of the autographs were not forged as much as they
were auto pens, and they dropped a video on that,
and there's certain things to look for even with an
auto pen. I mean, the autograph looks real in the
(15:32):
sense that he forged like one hundred Way and Gretzky autographs,
and everyone looks exactly identical, exactly identical, like Wayne gretzkyin
perfect They couldn't do that himself. So again, this is
like what the auto pen again, bringing it from bringing
out little forward again. That started mostly with Politician in
the nineteen seventies nineteen eight before then it's taken over
(15:53):
now to sports stuff. I mean we see that very commonly.
Let's say sports signed books are being autopenned. A lot
passed off is real. And the other thing you really
problem now is a lot of these athletes they don't
know how to sign their names, so they make lines
and little drawing.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Or just ye like it would be like me just
putting JN sticker or a piece of paper or the
card itself. It's just it's a different generation, you know.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah, it's a different generation. Also.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
A lot of these players, again I don't want to
like segregate this, but a lot of them that come
for the Dominican League in that area, they really never
learned how to spell their names.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
They would just learn baseball. That's all they really care about.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
So making making a glove out of milk carton, Yeah exactly,
you know. So, yeah, they weren't thinking about signing autographs,
trying to survive and enjoin the game that they love
that if they were fortunate enough could provide them a
living eventually, if you did for some.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Time for a quick break, will be.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
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(17:20):
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Speaker 1 (17:30):
Sports Comnation has resons for you.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
I mean, you have a great collection. Obviously you talked
about it kind of started but with Mark Friedrich the Bird.
When did you real, Like, when did you know like
I want to collect auto groups? And then maybe two
pro questions, Frank, when did that? And then when did
you say I'm going. I'm going for all the Baseball
(17:58):
Hall of Famers that ever are.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
So in nineteen ninety three, I went to the National
at the Rosemunt Convention Center, not the rosemand I'm sorry,
McCormick Place Convention Center, downtown Chicago, probably familiar with it.
And they had a bunch of Hall of Famers and
I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
I wasn't real rich as a kid.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I was middle class growing up, so they weren't that
expensive the autographs then like they are now. So in
nineteen so I gos many autographs that I could. I
don't have the baseball they are behind me, but I
got I filled the baseball with like twenty Hall of Fames,
and I'm like.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
This is really cool.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And so my father and I started a tradition in
nineteen ninety four, we went to the Georgia R. Brown
Convention Center for the ninety four National. And what's interesting
about that I always talk about this is Mickey Manno
was there. It was his last show. Nobody knew it
was going to be his last show. Obviously, he just
signed with Upper Deck. He was charging eighty dollars an autograph,
and now that's like a bargain obviously, but back then,
(18:52):
eighty dollars for an autograph insane. The next closest person
was Carlia Shrimsky, So I remember looking at his line.
I have a picture somewhere. Nobody in line for Mantle
because no one was to pay eighty dollars he's been
doing a year ago. He would do the show it
for thirty dollars. Of course, he passed away less than
a year later, and I made a vow to myself
whenever I see someone's Baseball Hall of Famers I always
(19:14):
love baseball, I would get their autograph. So my initial
goal was to get all the living Baseball Hall of
Fames in person. I had flown all over the country,
all the Nationals, getting them in person. In two thousand
and one, I got Kirby Puckett and finished every living
Hall of Fame, and then like, now.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
What do I do?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
And about two thousand, this is when Operation Bullpen was
really coming to light. So I'm kind of glad I
didn't start will when I did. Then in two thousand
and seven, I started making, let's say, some real money,
like adult money, and I said, I am, I'm looking
at it right now. A Chief Vender autograph, he was
a picture for the Philadelphia Athletics came for sale, and
I'm like, I'm going to bid on it, and I
(19:53):
bought it, and I said, you know what, I'm just
gonna go for them all. I'm going to go for
them all. I know it's an impossible task. I've taken
out small business loans to get some autographs. I got
some real toughies that way. Fortunately, the vintage autograph market
has like all arising, a rising tide raises all ships.
Like vintage sports cards, the autographs have gone up as
(20:14):
well in value. So maybe if I'm retirement and hopefully
I won't need to sell them one day, but if
I have to, they're all here. And I'm really proud
of not only the autographs, but like the medium that's on.
Like you see behind me over here is Roberto Clemente's
signed tax return.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
I just did.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Bill mckechne is a really cool endorsement that appeared in
a nineteen twenty baseball magazine. So like everything behind me
are government postcards, checks, documents. I've been very careful since
I learned a very expensive lesson to avoid cut autograph.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Yeah, that's that's awesome. Awesome pieces for those looking on
in video. And again, having three hundred of the three
hundred and fifty just tells you what kind of collection
that you have. Do you know anyone else like yourself
that's attempting to do this? And and if you do,
do do like minded folks? Are you like do you
(21:06):
work together? Like, hey, I have an extra one of
these and I have an extra one of those? Or
how does that work or not? I know that works
with cars?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Short answers.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, so I have a text change with people you
probably know, Bill V. Hall of Fame collector, Mike moynihan,
Jake Legends Ever Die And we're all in different points
of Arlette journey. The finished in Bill and myself are
the closest, and we kind of look at the major
auction houses like Aria Heritage. This is coming out like
this is my high bit. I'd be like, if you
want to, you're at the bid X or Y. There's
(21:40):
been other time there's a rare Niager League Hall of
famer named Alex Pompeii. His autograph came about in a
really small auction house that I know. I had him
Bill needed him, and we're friends, so I called him.
I said, I can get it for such a shut price.
I'm not gonna charge you anything extra, and I just
picked it up for him. I turned around and I
sold to him for costs, and he looks out for me.
(22:02):
So we really do look out for each other, because
right now it's a small niche I don't know anyone
personally that has a bigger Hall of Fame question than me,
But I'm sure they're out there because I see the
autographs now players I need, let's say Christy Mathews for example,
and they're going for an insane amount of insane amounts
of money. So you know some high dollar people out
(22:24):
there spending that an autogram.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Yeah, no doubt. So when you attend in National, is
it twofold for you? In other words, what I mean
by that, Frank, is obviously you might attend, wait in
line or whatever you do for some that are are
are there or at this point all the living ones
you have, So it would only be maybe a new
inductee that you haven't got in person, so you're more
(22:49):
showcase shopping and waiting that online for someone in person.
Would that be accurate?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
That's fairly accurate.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
So like when you get to my level and against
someone taught me this who had the biggest Halitay autograph
colliction on one time, as you start to speculate who's
going to get it?
Speaker 3 (23:06):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So like this past national and I know he's only
played one and a half years, but Pete Crow Armstrong
was signing in person. I'm a real big in person collector,
and so he was signing in person. So I did
wait a line. I got pie Crow Armstrong's autograph. I
got Kyle Tucker's autograph because you don't know if they're
ever gonna do a show again. If so, they're gonna
be much PCA's autograph. I was so disappointed. If you're
(23:30):
watching this, Pete, I don't think you are. Please learn
how to spell your name, not just a PCA for
the amount of money you charge. Unfortunately, most of the
vintage autograph dealers are disappearing. Auction houses are just cleaning up.
So everyone that has a collection of autographs, let's say
that I need in my level. Let's say, besides the Roosts,
(23:51):
the cops, the more rare Baseball Hall of famers, they're.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
All going to auction these.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
John I have to be honest, it's kind of disappointing
because I'm sure if there's a baseball cards the good
old days, like the Frank Chance autograph costby, I'm gonna
host twelve thousand dollars, So I said to the dealer
they had it. I'm gonna give you a thousand dollars
a month. You hold the autograph one thousand dollars a month,
and come back to you next year at the National
you're gonna hand me the autograph handshake deal. Both sides
(24:15):
I think ended up very happy. You can't do that anymore.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Yeah, it's it's it's it's tough. I get it. And
that's nice that even he was willing to do that
and that sort of thing. You know. I like what
you said too, that like you'll get you'll speculate, right,
the guy that's playing well, and like they're not obviously
in the whole thing yet, they're still playing, but like
(24:40):
you know, the trajectory kind of points to that and
rather than wait and maybe miss a boat that leaves port.
You've sort of a sort of locked in. I want
to ask you, have you ever bought a collection of
autographs because you didn't need them necessarily all of them,
but you needed a few in there. But you, whoever
was selling, wasn't piecing it out, so you had to
(25:02):
buy the whole thing. And if you the answers yes
to that, you know, I know you say you don't
sell them. But in that case, would you sell the
things that you don't necessarily need from buying the collection?
And I guess if the answer is no, I guess
the second part of that would be, would you ever
consider that if like an opportunity was like.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Uh, great question? The answer is no. I just am
so busy with, let's say, my real job. I don't
have the chance. I did one time. So there's a
Hall of Famer named Stankoveleski. He was a picture with
the Indians, and the rumor was he was illiterate. So
his family was selling off his entire collection. And as
I said, all you could find of his was index card,
(25:44):
and so in this collection was his social security I'm like,
this is a cool piece.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
And I framed the social security card.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I'm pointing to it back here, and I said, I
just wanted to security card. So I spent a couple
hundred dollars for the collection, and then it turned out
was a government postcard as well that he wrote in
nineteen seventeen to his then girlfriend slash wife, and also
in the collection was to believe it or not, his
wedding certificate. So I did turn around and sell the
rest of the collection and just.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Kept the social Security card. But that is the.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Only time, John, that I have ever bought something just
to piece one thing out and then turn around and
sell it.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Yeah, there's been go ahead.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Yeah. I was just gonna say, if another opportunity where
it was more like, hey, there's twelve attos in this collection.
The owner of this collection does not want to break
it apart. It's one price takes it all, and you
need let's say two or three or two of them.
Would you consider that? And again, with the fifty that
(26:43):
you need, it's gonna be one heck of a collection
based But would you consider a deal like that where
you buy that for who knows how much, but you're
keeping the two or the three that you don't have
and the other nine or ten. You're gonna obviously so
and maybe even hopefully offset some of your costs on
(27:04):
the two or three. Your attention.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah, I mean, if there were one in there, I
would do it. Sure. I'll tell you a quick story.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I hope I not lose the New York These are
like deep, deep hall of famers now.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
That people love it. I love this stuff people.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
I'll tell you a story.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
So last year, I think Aria sold the collection of
Chicago Cubs checks canceled checks. There had to be three
hundred checks in batch, and they sold five batches, let's
say two hundred checks.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Now.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Buried in these two hundred checks was a Hall of
Famer named Tommy McCarthy. So there was only two known
autographs at the time before this collection.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
These checks got really.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
And so in these batches of collections, and no one
knew it. What's it called? The auction houses didn't even
go through the checks. They said, here's three hundred checks
from this time period. And of course, in two separate
batches were of the five were too Tommy McCarthy checks.
I know at least two. One was sold for thirty thousand,
and the other one is for sale right now privately
(28:02):
for about thirty five thousand, beyond my price range. But
like the batch sold for eight thousand dollars a total,
so that would be a steal obviously if I would
have known about it. But like those, that's all you
have to do these days to find let's say the
fifty or anything like that.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Yeah, that would be a nice fall to get.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
It in nicell.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
But like you said, when when they sell lots like that,
they are they showing each check individually or not? Really?
So you don't you really can't tell.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
No, you couldn't tell.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
As soon as I saw the check for sale, I
knew exactly where it came from. I remember seeing the lot.
But I mean, I'm not a big gambler. I'm an accountant,
which we shortly as a CPA. I don't want to
spend ten thousand dollars gamble because you would think you
would have thought that a major auction house like Robert
Edwards's auction would have gone through and look for big names.
(28:56):
Obviously they did in so less than learned. But no,
they did not show every single shock.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Yeah, it's it's it's interesting when you see lots like that,
like if they still do them, and like you said
that the fact they don't take a look see if
there are any diamonds in the rough, so to speak.
But if you purchase something like that and you.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Hit yeah, yeah, And my guess is the person that
went through them as a person like your average baseball fan,
they're looking for babe, I cop, They're not looking for
Tommy McCarthy.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Who's Tommy McCarthy?
Speaker 4 (29:27):
So yeah, yeah, No, it's a great point. Sometimes sometimes
you know it's worth the shot in the dark. Yeah,
as they say, awesome stuff from Frank right there. What
an incredible collection of all time Baseball Hall of Fame autographs.
And I know we talked about that heavy today, which
(29:48):
is just great stuff, and I want to apologize for that.
Part two, which is next next week, episode three fifty eight,
we will dive into more of the tax advice. So
if you're a buyer, seller, full time, part time, weekend warrior, whatever,
(30:09):
We're gonna go over some tax does and don'ts and
tips and tricks, and I'm gonna ask him some questions
that I've always wondered about as well. So now, if
you enjoyed this week's episode, next week's episode is gonna
be right up your alley as well, so come back
(30:30):
and join us then and Frank will be back to
tackle some of the accounting of the Hobby if you will.
So we're gonna get to our hobbies the People Announcer
of the Week and wrap up this week's episode.
Speaker 5 (30:46):
Time for all.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Hobby is the People Announcer of the Week.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
This is Andy Friedman.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Remember the Hobby is the people.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
If you'd like to be the Hobby is the People
Announcer of the Week. Do have one F or MP
three file and send it to Sportscardination PC at gmail
dot comm
Sports guard Nations, Hobbies, the People, Wheely News and Interviews.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's your number one song.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Sports garn Nations hobby is the people.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Sports guy Nation.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
What is up, everybody? Welcome to episode three fifty seven,
aka the magnum episode of Sportscardination. As always, glad to
be back, Happy Friday if you're listening to this on
release day, and we got a great guest today, Frank
the sports card CPA's got probably the greatest single Hall
(00:45):
of Fame Baseball collection, probably on the planet, or one
of them. He's definitely in the running. Has over three
hundred of the three hundred and fifty Baseball Hall of
Famers autographs and including many of the big ones and
all the current anyone that's alive. He has all of
(01:06):
those as well and is only missing fifty more. And
he's an accountant CPA who does a lot of work
any sports card hobby. So we're going to talk about
his collection, how he decided to go for it, tackle it.
We're going to talk to him about some mistakes or
(01:27):
things you can do as a hobbyist or a dealer
who files taxes as well. A lot of great info
jam packed into the next two weeks of show with Frank,
so I had a blast talking to him. I think
you'll enjoy some of the topics we cover a little
different than the norm, if you will, which is to
(01:49):
me always fun and always cool to do. As always
want to thank our sponsors, in no particular order, Iron
Sports Cards, Rob doing bulk subs PSA STC doing very
well and one of the best guys for that, and
Sports Collectors Digest blessed to be able to write for them.
(02:13):
Hobby Hotline are every week Saturday morning live show that
appeared on the four Collectors Network, and Upper Deck who
allows us to review and open some product and give
away some stuff as well. So with that out of
the way, let's get the show underway. I'm real excited
(02:48):
of this next gentleman on sports cardination. I met him
a few months back in Chicago at the National and
he gave me a business card, and very interesting to
talk about him as a whole. He's a collector like
most of us who are listening to the show, but
he's also a CPA who kind of specializes on the
(03:10):
sports card side of the house as well. So I
want to welcome to the show, Frank the Sports Card CPA.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Welcome Frank, Hey, now John, this is very exciting to
have me on.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I've watched this podcast for years, so very excited to
be actually invited to be on the Podcaskey for having me.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Well, I appreciate, thank you for your time and coming
on and you know, getting to meet you obviously in Chicago.
Like I've told you before recording, I'm a dealer, so
you know, any type and we'll get into the nuts
and both of us. But you know, I don't think
you know if you're a dealer who who profits or
makes money in the hobby. Obviously we got to pay
(03:48):
our sales tax and that's not avoidable. But when it
comes to income taxes and other taxes depending on obviously
what state you live in, I think it's you know,
the more you know, the more you have someone who
can help you or do your taxes, I think the
better off you are. And it's just you know, from
being in the tax laws change every year and for
(04:12):
the lay person is not going to know all about that,
where someone who's like yourself, who's in that line of
work is going to be right on tap top of
that stuff. So I don't think we talk about that
segment enough and again we'll get into it more here
in a little bit. I want to start out with,
(04:33):
you know, Frank the hobby as Frank the collector. You know,
kind of where did for you? When did the hobby
start as a as a hobbyist?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
The hobby started for me personally In nineteen eighty three,
my father took me to a baseball card show featuring
Mark the Berg Fidrich and I was six years old
at the time. I really didn't know what Mark Fidrick was,
but he was, let's say, he was as popular as
Autony Let's in the Detroit when when I was a
(05:01):
real young child, and so I got to meet him.
That's when I got my first of many many Baseball
Hall of Fame autograph. And for those of you that
have watched my channel, I used to be called Baseball
Hall of Fame Autographs. I recently did a rebrand as
a sports car at CPA.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
But as you can see behind me, I love collecting.
I really don't sell.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I just collect Baseball Hall of Fame autographs with the
impossible goal of getting every single Baseball Hall.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Let me let me peggyback of that alive and deceased or.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
All three hundred and fifty one Baseball Hall of Famers, yes, alive,
it doesn't matter. I currently stand at three hundred and one.
I need exactly fifty left. And they're all very, very
tough names. We're talking five figures.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yeah, and obviously that number goes up with each new
induction class. E add those to the arsenal or to
the collection. Correct, Yeah, what I mean what obviously you
said about forty nine or fifty short of completion? I mean,
what's what's the big one that that will be the
toughest of those? They're all tough in their own right,
(06:10):
but what what one do you think? See the number one?
Toughest number one.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Again, a lot of these guys I probably your listeners
have never heard of. For example, they're so named Frank Grant,
the Turn of the League, eagerly player. Rumor is he
was illiterate, and there's not a single autograph known to this.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
There's a lot of other guys especially.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Well that shouldn't that shouldn't count. Like I'm not saying
obviously he's in the Hall of Fame, that that counts.
And he was a heck of a player. But if
he if there don't exist. It's not like you're missing.
If something really doesn't exist, you're not really missing, you
know what I mean. It's like a set where the
card wasn't produced.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So you say it was produced but never released, so
maybe one will come out, But uh, I call I
count them all the same. I count favorite with the
same weight as Harold Bains. If you're in the Hall
of Fame, you're in the Hall of Fame. I need
your autograph, whether it exists or not. Probably the most
common household name of any autograph I need that your
listeners would have heard of is Christy Mathewson.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Obviously nineteen thirty six conductee.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Who passed away about a couple of years before that,
unfortunately because of tuberculosis. I know something to do with
chemical warfare. So he passed away very young, when the
hobby was in its infant and it just makes his
autograph very challenging to get. And what I do is,
if you watch my channel, I do an autograph analysis
of every single Baseball Hall of Fame. Obviously we talk
(07:34):
about Frank Grant. I did a less than a minute
video because no known examples exist. But when I talked
about Christy Mathewson. There's just so many forgeries out there.
You really need to be careful when you're going to
buy it. And without going into details, I mean, I
know a lot of the TPAs people that work for
the TPS, and they're all great people, but even they
will tell you they made So if you're looking for autographs,
(07:56):
it doesn't matter hall of famer, not hall of famer,
current veteran, whatever passed away, long as do your research.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I always say, buy the autograph, not by this.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Yeah, great point by you too, Frank right, these are humans, right,
When humans make mistakes, that's that's part of life. It
can happen. But you nailed it right on the head, right,
Especially with an autograph of significance, of significant value, you
can't do too much research and investigate. You can only
do too little, especially when making a purchase.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So, like I brought out a few autographs, and I've
shown these before in my channel, but like one of
the rare head, one of the rarest I have and
I don't know if you're listening, this is a Frank
Chance autograph of Tinkers to Evers to Chance. There's probably
ten known autographs and this one's just a beauty because
it's on his letterhead, Frank l Chance with a branch.
If you go on the PSA database, this is the
(08:51):
single autograph that they refer to on the database. And
like I said, I bought the autograph. There's a lot
of cuts out there. I stopped buying cuts after I
had a very bad experience. Again you can watch with
one of these. I bought a cut autograph from a
very reputable dealer, and unfortunately it was deemed not authentic.
I don't want to say fake, it was deemed not authentic.
(09:11):
And what the problem is, once the autograph is deemed
non authentic, it goes into their database.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Is non authentic.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
You may not know this, but the TPAs do share
their database and therefore it would probably never be authentic
even if it was real. So therefore, even though I
have no plans on selling that autograph, I couldn't get
a grade. And therefore if my descendants ever wanted to
sell it, it was pretty much worthless.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
So it was a very expensive lesson.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Learned about cuts versus buying the provenance of the autograph.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
We've heard, you know recently, I'm sure you heard about
the big forgery scandal of course I'm not going to
give his name. He obviously committed suicide. I'm not going to,
you know, and obviously that's a big story. And it
doesn't just hurt people who collect autograph I think it
hurts the hobby in general. I've heard the FBI run
(10:02):
estimates that they believe fifty percent of autographs in the
marketplace are non authentic, in other words, half. I mean,
what again, it's all speculation. Does does that sound right
to you, Frank about half autographs or are not legit?
Or does that sound too high?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
That's me personally, I think that sounds too high in
the sense that if you buy an autograph that has
let's say a Repid Oll, TDA and I'm gonna name
the big three JSA, Beckett and PSA, I would say
over ninety percent of those autographs are good. Again, I
would not be buying an autograph today of a very
(10:41):
high value player without one of those big SERTs if
you don't know what you're buying. I mean, again, they've
all made mistakes. But if you go on eBay, I'm
sure that fifty percent number is higher than normal. But
as like one of the headset, if it's too good
of a deal. I mean, if it's the price is
too good, it's too.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Good of a deal. Of course, the cliche is escaping
me right now. But yeah, probably that numbers.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Good to be true.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
It probably is.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, thank you, thank you, John So like anyways, getting
back to that, so, yeah, if you look at Mickey
Mantle probably on eBay right now, probably I would say
maybe fifty percent are fake. But again, over all those
are nearly all those fifty percent that are fake are
probably under one hundred dollars. So if you're paying under
one hundred dollars for a Mickey man all, if it's
(11:28):
too good to be true, it probably is, So do
your research. I mean, Mickey Mantle probably one of the
most forged baseball players at least of all times in
terms of autographs.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I did a video about it.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
It's gotten on a close to ten thousand news now
and you really there were let's say five main forger
around the two thousands with all Operation Bullpen, and they're
really easy to the trained eye spot and fake and
say this no good and the TPA is again I'll
know this.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
None of these got through third party. You shouldn't say none.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Very weird yeah, Mickey Mickey definitely, it's number one on
the most fugazi autograph list. You got Jordans on the
basketball side of the house as well. I believe me,
I have Mickey Man autos that are legitimate and certified,
and I've I've had in my hand many of a
lot of his that I know just by looking at it.
(12:21):
And I'm not even a certification guy. But yeah, and
like you said, if if you're looking at him Mickey
Man auto and someone just asking a hundred bucks that
you usually just run, just run, that's a pretty obvious
uh signal that that is not so.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I mean, the big forgery about a couple of years
ago was the Willie May say Hey holograms, which a
lot of TPAs unfortunately accepted the hologram must be real. Again,
I don't want to know the name, but safety it's
very similar to Berry bonds, and I was very fortunate
Darren Ravel reached out to me because, like I exposed
a pretty early that these were bad autographs and what
(13:02):
to look for. But again, probably, like I would say,
Willie Mays is the number one autograph that has been
passed by tpa's that are forced. If I had to
take one to be careful, it's gonna be Willie May.
So and they all have to say, hey, hologram. They
all look very similar. So besides that is that he
passed away, like I said last year, so he's obviously
(13:23):
had players have an influx when they passed away. And
so that's that's that's the exception, not the norm. The
TPAs are all good people. They're not trying to steal
your money.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Yeah, that's a tough if you if you've if you
know about Willie May's autograph, that's a tough autograph too
to duplicate if you're a forger, you know. But to
get corecked, these these unscrupulous people practiced air craft repeatedly
and then you know, then you got auto pen issues.
Like it's not just all necessary handwritten things. You know,
(13:53):
in the forties and fifties you had the clubhouse signatures
where a bat boy or a clubby U learned how
to do players on that team's signature to take the
workload in the sense off of them. And back then too,
it was a little more innocent than it would be
today because there wasn't like a huge marketplace like we
(14:15):
know now. That was just hey, kid, you know, sign
these for me so I can do some other stuff.
But yeah, still not you know, talk a little bit
about that, especially on the Hall of Fame stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I mean, the most famous one is the nineteen fifty
five Dodgers that won the world too. There was a guy,
a bat Boy clubhouse attendant and his nickname was the Bro.
You're likek at you to Bro, and he Duke Snyder,
said he could sign my name better than I can.
And so I've actually seen him in person, where the
guys are like, I got this baseball for the nineteeny
five Dodgers. It's real. They had this great story how
(14:50):
it was passed down. I mean, autograph experts now can
probably spot the differences. There's certain things to look for.
But again that's probably when the secretarial really took effect
that it became really good. Prior to that, like like
Luke Gherg and Babe Ruth, yes they had secretarial signatures,
but they were not real close to what their actual
(15:11):
signatures look like. Again, the nineteen fifty five is kind
of the turning point where like, wow, he's been close.
And going back to what you said with the recent
autograph scandal, that broke without giving you information. The majority
of the autographs were not forged as much as they
were auto pens, and they dropped a video on that,
and there's certain things to look for even with an
auto pen. I mean, the autograph looks real in the
(15:32):
sense that he forged like one hundred Way and Gretzky autographs,
and everyone looks exactly identical, exactly identical, like Wayne gretzkyin
perfect They couldn't do that himself. So again, this is
like what the auto pen again, bringing it from bringing
out little forward again. That started mostly with Politician in
the nineteen seventies nineteen eight before then it's taken over
(15:53):
now to sports stuff. I mean we see that very commonly.
Let's say sports signed books are being autopenned. A lot
passed off is real. And the other thing you really
problem now is a lot of these athletes they don't
know how to sign their names, so they make lines
and little drawing.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Or just ye like it would be like me just
putting JN sticker or a piece of paper or the
card itself. It's just it's a different generation, you know.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah, it's a different generation. Also.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
A lot of these players, again I don't want to
like segregate this, but a lot of them that come
for the Dominican League in that area, they really never
learned how to spell their names.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
They would just learn baseball. That's all they really care about.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
So making making a glove out of milk carton, Yeah exactly,
you know. So, yeah, they weren't thinking about signing autographs,
trying to survive and enjoin the game that they love
that if they were fortunate enough could provide them a
living eventually, if you did for some.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Time for a quick break, will be.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
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(17:20):
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Speaker 1 (17:30):
Sports Comnation has resons for you.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
I mean, you have a great collection. Obviously you talked
about it kind of started but with Mark Friedrich the Bird.
When did you real, Like, when did you know like
I want to collect auto groups? And then maybe two
pro questions, Frank, when did that? And then when did
you say I'm going. I'm going for all the Baseball
(17:58):
Hall of Famers that ever are.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
So in nineteen ninety three, I went to the National
at the Rosemunt Convention Center, not the rosemand I'm sorry,
McCormick Place Convention Center, downtown Chicago, probably familiar with it.
And they had a bunch of Hall of Famers and
I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
I wasn't real rich as a kid.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I was middle class growing up, so they weren't that
expensive the autographs then like they are now. So in
nineteen so I gos many autographs that I could. I
don't have the baseball they are behind me, but I
got I filled the baseball with like twenty Hall of Fames,
and I'm like.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
This is really cool.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
And so my father and I started a tradition in
nineteen ninety four, we went to the Georgia R. Brown
Convention Center for the ninety four National. And what's interesting
about that I always talk about this is Mickey Manno
was there. It was his last show. Nobody knew it
was going to be his last show. Obviously, he just
signed with Upper Deck. He was charging eighty dollars an autograph,
and now that's like a bargain obviously, but back then,
(18:52):
eighty dollars for an autograph insane. The next closest person
was Carlia Shrimsky, So I remember looking at his line.
I have a picture somewhere. Nobody in line for Mantle
because no one was to pay eighty dollars he's been
doing a year ago. He would do the show it
for thirty dollars. Of course, he passed away less than
a year later, and I made a vow to myself
whenever I see someone's Baseball Hall of Famers I always
(19:14):
love baseball, I would get their autograph. So my initial
goal was to get all the living Baseball Hall of
Fames in person. I had flown all over the country,
all the Nationals, getting them in person. In two thousand
and one, I got Kirby Puckett and finished every living
Hall of Fame, and then like, now.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
What do I do?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
And about two thousand, this is when Operation Bullpen was
really coming to light. So I'm kind of glad I
didn't start will when I did. Then in two thousand
and seven, I started making, let's say, some real money,
like adult money, and I said, I am, I'm looking
at it right now. A Chief Vender autograph, he was
a picture for the Philadelphia Athletics came for sale, and
I'm like, I'm going to bid on it, and I
(19:53):
bought it, and I said, you know what, I'm just
gonna go for them all. I'm going to go for
them all. I know it's an impossible task. I've taken
out small business loans to get some autographs. I got
some real toughies that way. Fortunately, the vintage autograph market
has like all arising, a rising tide raises all ships.
Like vintage sports cards, the autographs have gone up as
(20:14):
well in value. So maybe if I'm retirement and hopefully
I won't need to sell them one day, but if
I have to, they're all here. And I'm really proud
of not only the autographs, but like the medium that's on.
Like you see behind me over here is Roberto Clemente's
signed tax return.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
I just did.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Bill mckechne is a really cool endorsement that appeared in
a nineteen twenty baseball magazine. So like everything behind me
are government postcards, checks, documents. I've been very careful since
I learned a very expensive lesson to avoid cut autograph.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Yeah, that's that's awesome. Awesome pieces for those looking on
in video. And again, having three hundred of the three
hundred and fifty just tells you what kind of collection
that you have. Do you know anyone else like yourself
that's attempting to do this? And and if you do,
do do like minded folks? Are you like do you
(21:06):
work together? Like, hey, I have an extra one of
these and I have an extra one of those? Or
how does that work or not? I know that works
with cars?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Short answers.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, so I have a text change with people you
probably know, Bill V. Hall of Fame collector, Mike moynihan,
Jake Legends Ever Die And we're all in different points
of Arlette journey. The finished in Bill and myself are
the closest, and we kind of look at the major
auction houses like Aria Heritage. This is coming out like
this is my high bit. I'd be like, if you
want to, you're at the bid X or Y. There's
(21:40):
been other time there's a rare Niager League Hall of
famer named Alex Pompeii. His autograph came about in a
really small auction house that I know. I had him
Bill needed him, and we're friends, so I called him.
I said, I can get it for such a shut price.
I'm not gonna charge you anything extra, and I just
picked it up for him. I turned around and I
sold to him for costs, and he looks out for me.
(22:02):
So we really do look out for each other, because
right now it's a small niche I don't know anyone
personally that has a bigger Hall of Fame question than me,
But I'm sure they're out there because I see the
autographs now players I need, let's say Christy Mathews for example,
and they're going for an insane amount of insane amounts
of money. So you know some high dollar people out
(22:24):
there spending that an autogram.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Yeah, no doubt. So when you attend in National, is
it twofold for you? In other words, what I mean
by that, Frank, is obviously you might attend, wait in
line or whatever you do for some that are are
are there or at this point all the living ones
you have, So it would only be maybe a new
inductee that you haven't got in person, so you're more
(22:49):
showcase shopping and waiting that online for someone in person.
Would that be accurate?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
That's fairly accurate.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
So like when you get to my level and against
someone taught me this who had the biggest Halitay autograph
colliction on one time, as you start to speculate who's
going to get it?
Speaker 3 (23:06):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So like this past national and I know he's only
played one and a half years, but Pete Crow Armstrong
was signing in person. I'm a real big in person collector,
and so he was signing in person. So I did
wait a line. I got pie Crow Armstrong's autograph. I
got Kyle Tucker's autograph because you don't know if they're
ever gonna do a show again. If so, they're gonna
be much PCA's autograph. I was so disappointed. If you're
(23:30):
watching this, Pete, I don't think you are. Please learn
how to spell your name, not just a PCA for
the amount of money you charge. Unfortunately, most of the
vintage autograph dealers are disappearing. Auction houses are just cleaning up.
So everyone that has a collection of autographs, let's say
that I need in my level. Let's say, besides the Roosts,
(23:51):
the cops, the more rare Baseball Hall of famers, they're.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
All going to auction these.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
John I have to be honest, it's kind of disappointing
because I'm sure if there's a baseball cards the good
old days, like the Frank Chance autograph costby, I'm gonna
host twelve thousand dollars, So I said to the dealer
they had it. I'm gonna give you a thousand dollars
a month. You hold the autograph one thousand dollars a month,
and come back to you next year at the National
you're gonna hand me the autograph handshake deal. Both sides
(24:15):
I think ended up very happy. You can't do that anymore.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Yeah, it's it's it's it's tough. I get it. And
that's nice that even he was willing to do that
and that sort of thing. You know. I like what
you said too, that like you'll get you'll speculate, right,
the guy that's playing well, and like they're not obviously
in the whole thing yet, they're still playing, but like
(24:40):
you know, the trajectory kind of points to that and
rather than wait and maybe miss a boat that leaves port.
You've sort of a sort of locked in. I want
to ask you, have you ever bought a collection of
autographs because you didn't need them necessarily all of them,
but you needed a few in there. But you, whoever
was selling, wasn't piecing it out, so you had to
(25:02):
buy the whole thing. And if you the answers yes
to that, you know, I know you say you don't
sell them. But in that case, would you sell the
things that you don't necessarily need from buying the collection?
And I guess if the answer is no, I guess
the second part of that would be, would you ever
consider that if like an opportunity was like.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Uh, great question? The answer is no. I just am
so busy with, let's say, my real job. I don't
have the chance. I did one time. So there's a
Hall of Famer named Stankoveleski. He was a picture with
the Indians, and the rumor was he was illiterate. So
his family was selling off his entire collection. And as
I said, all you could find of his was index card,
(25:44):
and so in this collection was his social security I'm like,
this is a cool piece.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
And I framed the social security card.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I'm pointing to it back here, and I said, I
just wanted to security card. So I spent a couple
hundred dollars for the collection, and then it turned out
was a government postcard as well that he wrote in
nineteen seventeen to his then girlfriend slash wife, and also
in the collection was to believe it or not, his
wedding certificate. So I did turn around and sell the
rest of the collection and just.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Kept the social Security card. But that is the.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Only time, John, that I have ever bought something just
to piece one thing out and then turn around and
sell it.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Yeah, there's been go ahead.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Yeah. I was just gonna say, if another opportunity where
it was more like, hey, there's twelve attos in this collection.
The owner of this collection does not want to break
it apart. It's one price takes it all, and you
need let's say two or three or two of them.
Would you consider that? And again, with the fifty that
(26:43):
you need, it's gonna be one heck of a collection
based But would you consider a deal like that where
you buy that for who knows how much, but you're
keeping the two or the three that you don't have
and the other nine or ten. You're gonna obviously so
and maybe even hopefully offset some of your costs on
(27:04):
the two or three. Your attention.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah, I mean, if there were one in there, I
would do it. Sure. I'll tell you a quick story.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I hope I not lose the New York These are
like deep, deep hall of famers now.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
That people love it. I love this stuff people.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
I'll tell you a story.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
So last year, I think Aria sold the collection of
Chicago Cubs checks canceled checks. There had to be three
hundred checks in batch, and they sold five batches, let's
say two hundred checks.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Now.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Buried in these two hundred checks was a Hall of
Famer named Tommy McCarthy. So there was only two known
autographs at the time before this collection.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
These checks got really.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
And so in these batches of collections, and no one
knew it. What's it called? The auction houses didn't even
go through the checks. They said, here's three hundred checks
from this time period. And of course, in two separate
batches were of the five were too Tommy McCarthy checks.
I know at least two. One was sold for thirty thousand,
and the other one is for sale right now privately
(28:02):
for about thirty five thousand, beyond my price range. But
like the batch sold for eight thousand dollars a total,
so that would be a steal obviously if I would
have known about it. But like those, that's all you
have to do these days to find let's say the
fifty or anything like that.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Yeah, that would be a nice fall to get.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
It in nicell.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
But like you said, when when they sell lots like that,
they are they showing each check individually or not? Really?
So you don't you really can't tell.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
No, you couldn't tell.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
As soon as I saw the check for sale, I
knew exactly where it came from. I remember seeing the lot.
But I mean, I'm not a big gambler. I'm an accountant,
which we shortly as a CPA. I don't want to
spend ten thousand dollars gamble because you would think you
would have thought that a major auction house like Robert
Edwards's auction would have gone through and look for big names.
(28:56):
Obviously they did in so less than learned. But no,
they did not show every single shock.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Yeah, it's it's it's interesting when you see lots like that,
like if they still do them, and like you said
that the fact they don't take a look see if
there are any diamonds in the rough, so to speak.
But if you purchase something like that and you.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Hit yeah, yeah, And my guess is the person that
went through them as a person like your average baseball fan,
they're looking for babe, I cop, They're not looking for
Tommy McCarthy.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Who's Tommy McCarthy?
Speaker 4 (29:27):
So yeah, yeah, No, it's a great point. Sometimes sometimes
you know it's worth the shot in the dark. Yeah,
as they say, awesome stuff from Frank right there. What
an incredible collection of all time Baseball Hall of Fame autographs.
And I know we talked about that heavy today, which
(29:48):
is just great stuff, and I want to apologize for that.
Part two, which is next next week, episode three fifty eight,
we will dive into more of the tax advice. So
if you're a buyer, seller, full time, part time, weekend warrior, whatever,
(30:09):
We're gonna go over some tax does and don'ts and
tips and tricks, and I'm gonna ask him some questions
that I've always wondered about as well. So now, if
you enjoyed this week's episode, next week's episode is gonna
be right up your alley as well, so come back
(30:30):
and join us then and Frank will be back to
tackle some of the accounting of the Hobby if you will.
So we're gonna get to our hobbies the People Announcer
of the Week and wrap up this week's episode.
Speaker 5 (30:46):
Time for all.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Hobby is the People Announcer of the Week.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
This is Andy Friedman.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Remember the Hobby is the people.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
If you'd like to be the Hobby is the People
Announcer of the Week. Do have one F or MP
three file and send it to Sportscardination PC at gmail
dot comm
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