Step into the Paranormal: Episode 55

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Episode Transcript

(00:42):
Okay, the hell would it?You know what? All right, there

(01:08):
we go. It's acting weird.I don't know. All right, Hi,
everybody on minisode fifty four, stepinto the paranormal our. My computer
is like flipping out. In Dave'sdefense, three minutes it's been. We've
been scrambling trying to something went wrong. This is the computer we you use,
so it completely freaked out. Don'tknow why he last night go fit.

(01:33):
Plus you know she's sitting here,idiot whatever. We have two team
anologists tonight. So I scumbled toget my new computer up doing the one
that has a powerful blah blah blah, gotta working fine, it's flipping out
now and all a sudden camera lostaudio. Now it took us out of
the videos. If you lose thefeed, we didn't die. I swear
were well. It started to act. I was going to interview last night

(01:57):
and the cat in the computer startedacting up. So anyways, take a
deep breath count of three one.Thus it's not that bad. We have
I got news. I got news. Oh we're not a deep today,
and she's real, she's perty well, you know the definition of paranormal is

(02:27):
oh, something that's just outside ofthe norm. So I guess that fits
in. We have a very specialshow tonight. I've been waiting to get
these guys on here. They arevery special, gentlemen, not because you
know there are friends or whatever.It's because of who they are and what

(02:51):
they do some amazing that we workedwith them, several several pieces and some
amazing guys. Guys. Let's introduceJames Anito. So, gentleman, welcome
to the show. Thank you forcoming. Thank you something here. It's
not you, I so quietly youwant No, it's not you. You're

(03:21):
not. When I talk, Ican hear you my voice. Okay,
you're you're not. Fine, you'reat the movie. Fine man, nice
and pers Claire. Thank you.You sound normal to me, at least
from here, relatively normal. Well, I guess you'll kick this all off.

(03:45):
I mean, I know who youguys are, and we're very close
with James. Um. We haven'thad the venture yet yet of actually working
with, but very well aware ofwho Carl is. So James want only
if you mind my friend whan don'twe start with you and just give everybody
that's walking or listening just a quickdown of exactly who you want and what

(04:11):
it is that you built you.Yeah. So my name is James,
and you know I clearly said it, and you guys are great friends.
I love you guys both, butfeedback on UM. So, I have
a carnal customer that's I've involved withfor sixteen years, since the early age
of fifteen years old. UM,it's always been an interest of mine.
I've been researching since the young age. Never had partonal experience. I had

(04:33):
traumatic experience as a child that mis well documented with in my life,
UM, that I've dealt with andUM with with those questions led me to
the paranormal because shoes like it,shows like Scooby Doo, Scariest Placeline Earth
and UH in Search of and allthese other fantastic shows that predate a lot

(04:55):
of our time as well. UMand of course like Charles Dickens and his
right things in his literature and UM. Yeah. So basically that all time
came together and I got involved intothe field of demnology and ministry work.
I've officially done ordained and UH theOld Catholic Church as a deacon and I
was a pastial assistant then deliverance minister, an ordained minister with the Church of

(05:18):
Christ um so. I have atheological background too, but yeah, that's
really what kind of got me todemnology and I want to help people.
I want to create awareness to whatis the whatnots and also myself by learning
many different industries. I'm also astudent in psychology at a credit university um

(05:41):
so. So it's a long level. It's a long level. Line will
do it as long as they Ilike spooky things, why not go with
it? No, just I was. It's a very young person, so
drawn to anything spectacular and nefarious andyou know, mysterious. I'll say I

(06:12):
was raised in a haunted house inmost days where business is usual, but
we did have some paranormal activity goingon there. So that was absolutely fascinating
and at somewhat scary at times.And my sister, my younger sister and
I used to play on a spiritboard, and of course that was the
only we got the answers. Thatwas even more riveting and all that and

(06:33):
the paranormal activity seemed to upstep andwe were getting like tremendous poundings on the
roof of the house, no treebranches over the house, and seeing the
spirit form of a woman in thehouse. So and you know, my
brother and sister and I experienced thesethings, not all at the same time,

(06:53):
but sometimes we know the things we'regoing on, so naturally I started
reading about hauntings and the supernatural.Fact that was one of my early readings
was Hill and Williams The Supernatural,and I remember when I was eleven years
old, I read Kraft Ebbing's PsychopathyA Sexual Alice, which dealt with a

(07:14):
lot of serial killers and just alwaysinterested not so much the dark should I
say dark for lack of a betterterm, things that were mysterious, and
I wanted to get into paranormal investigating. It didn't really have an outlet for
it except on my own my brotherand I. Um Then I went to
a lecture staged at Rhode Island Collegein Providence, and this was back in

(07:38):
nineteen seventy two, and the twospeakers were Ed and Lorraine Warren. Amazing,
but I heard a little bit aboutthey weren't quite at Yeah they were,
and they were. They gave sucha nice presentation. I remember saying,
that's what I want to be whenI grow up. And I got

(08:00):
Lorraine Warren. Actually the ED wasdoing some audience participation, you know,
I asking, I raised our handsthat we've had this to that experience,
and he actually called me up onstage and I became part of the lecture.
So I was invited to join thegroup based at the college called pyro
Parapsychological Investigatory and Research Organization. Thenwe started investigating and one of our early
cases was actually that house on ronTop Road in Harrisville called the Conjuring House.

(08:28):
Now, now James didn't come withme on that one. I missed
him by being there, but youknow, it just well one impediment was
not having been born at the time, so you know it's I think that's
understandable why I couldn't have joined me. But James spend them many times since
you know, those early days.So that's the basic how I became involved
in it. It. I wasalways interested in exploring and coming up with

(08:50):
theories, trying to say, youknow, not just the our ghost and
we see them sometimes we have evidenceof them, what are they? What
makes these things? These replicas ofliving people? That's what there are.
Absolutely I've been pursuing it ever since. Now I can from our standpoint.
We met James when Dave and Iformed. We left our team formed in

(09:16):
twenty seventeen, and the very firsttime we met James and person was at
a para conner. We were allin and with my fascination with what James
was doing in the field. Ican relate to you, Carl, because
I first familiarized myself with you,and I believe it was six when like

(09:41):
everyone else from the world started watchingpost timers and having a background in religion,
which led me to today's paranormal mormal. It was such like a breadth
of fresh air when the TV oneand I would see someone one it was

(10:05):
from more or less like a religiousstandpoint and actually offering help. So then
when we met Jane and I waslike, oh man, this is what
he does. I mean, thatwas just like mind blowing because you know,
not too many of the when thisstarted coming mainstream, that used to
be where people were actually out thereviewing from just a spooky standpoint and oh

(10:31):
this's a scary, and you know, there was actually some faith based answers
being offered, and that's exactly howwe view it. So that was like,
right, we came to know whoyou got rather than just you know,
we affirm that you have a ghostin your house and like on to
the next and you know, it'slike James and I tried to intervene,

(10:54):
intercede, you know, advised counsel, even from a psychological standpoint. You
know, if we can advise people, at least offer them, if not
concrete answers, at least some suppositionsand some advice. You know, that's
what our aim is, right,And James and our hacks are off the
you because the work you've done andas long as you've been involved in this

(11:20):
in the way that you are atsuch a young age is so impressive.
Yeah, when I tell you inyour color, I seen your kid running
around here in a priest color andthen I got to know you, you
know my background as well to Fabyand yeah, it's like, oh wow,
how did you get into this?So you really pap curiosity. Well,

(11:43):
I think the biggest thing is withme is that I've always been told
I can't do something or I can'tdo it, and I've always told that
wasn't good enough, and it's alwaysenabled me to continue wanting to learn or
have the questions within myself for thesurroundings of what I've dealt with what people
I've dealt with that have maybe continueresearching and kind of get involved in the

(12:07):
fields that have some sort of abilityto be used to academically or hands on
to this field. I'm very fatmultifascinated. You know. I've been in
school for the creeper science. I'vetold agree within that I you know,
I would ordaining two ministries, likeI try to see things that I can
adapt to this field, like byby our career, I'm an h fact

(12:28):
guy. I'm a project manager andestimator, and now I've worked my way
off from being labor but still I'vecommulated to that knowledge how construction could construct
the buildings can be effective or bea piece of the puzzle why things went
on. I love knowledge, andI think why I love science so much.
Good science is about continuously asking questionsand if you find an answer,

(12:52):
to ask more questions. I wantnot answered. And that's just how I
am. And I'm always going tobe like that because I don't alway think
that one thing is good. Thisis for car Or. I ask you
this, Carrol, because matter whowe have on the show, whether they're
would you do or psychohedeum or aninvestigator. I know the years you got

(13:16):
into this, and that's just that'simpressive by itself. But if you were
to sit down and just think aboutwhat you do, is there any one
particular case automatically pops in your mindthat's always at the top of the list
that you helped one you know?As far as the demonology side that you

(13:41):
investigate me, well, there thereare a few. I'm not sure which
one I should center in on,but I suppose what first comes to my
as far as being able to successfullyhelp or guide people make a difference in
their lives at least somewhat temporarily,would be the the case way back and
very early in my studies into mycareer as a demonologist. That would go

(14:05):
back to the situation in Providence,Rhode Island that turned out to be a
case of full blown demonic possession,and I've encountered several since then. But
I think I really intervened and madea difference for them because I was the
one who stood my ground when everybodyelse was running out and running around.
And I don't think what I didwas so much heroic. I just didn't

(14:30):
know what else to do except tostand up to this situation. I could
either exited and gone out to mycar, going back to my parents' house.
And I knew there was food inthe refrigerator and it would be safe,
and I just why am I here? I don't belong here. This
is nerve wracking. But another partof me said, you know, if
I if I run out now,if I leave, it's not going to
inspire any confidence in the people I'mtrying to help, and I may never

(14:54):
be able to go back into sucha situation. I'm sure James relates to
this as well. So I stoodit out, not knowing what I was
doing, but kind of making itup as I went along. And the
subject, who was a fourteen yearold boy, started and he had done
some freakish things that just shouldn't beit shouldn't be capable of, and he

(15:18):
started advancing towards me, and Ijust held up my hand as had stopped
and give him kind of a hug, put my hand on his back,
and well he was better. Itwas better after that, But that that
one stands out. It's a longstory. I meant to take the whole
show up talking about that, butyeah, that one would be it,

(15:39):
and that goes back to nineteen eightyin Providence, Rhode Island. Let me
let me ask you did being aman of religion? Did religion lead you
in the paranormal? Or was adviceversa where being interested in the paranormal ed
you into the religious? Well,I think I would have been, you

(16:02):
know, regardless of religious faith.I think I would have pursued that anyway.
And my faith is not I wouldn'tcall it a strong one. Really,
Um, I keep returning to faith, but you know that wasn't my
motivator that you know, I must, in the name of God go and
help people. But of course prayerhas been called into me. You know

(16:25):
what I do, and in fact, every intervention, you know it is
incorporated prayer. But just because youdon't know how something works or aren't too
sure about its reality, doesn't meanyou don't invoke it sometimes, you know,
the sense of the sense of ahigher power. And James, I've

(16:49):
noticed there's a shadow presence there.Yeah, yeah, I was gonna take
playback your video afterwards. You knowthere's something there. Carmen noticed that.
Yeah, we're going to lily Dalethat Yeah, she jumped up directly behind

(17:11):
you. You and James. Ineed to tell you, man, the
next time you know you're going tobe featured on one of those shows or
or like you were last week ortwo weeks ago, you gotta give us
the heads up. Man, Ididn't know you was gonna be one hunting
and I'm just happy to watch it. And I'm like, when they were

(17:33):
building up, I was like,oh, I know it, this is
gonna go. I know this isgonna be And I texted Day and I
was like, hey, well nexttime, my world. But I try
to keep the hush flush. Itwasn't like I think Carling a few slight
people actually, but I really like, I don't promote that stuff. It's
not like I know, it's notI'm not saying this negatively that anybody that

(17:56):
does. It's just not my mything. And you know, I was
also nervous of how they would portrayme because I've turned down so many roles.
And that's that's honest to God's truth. I've turned so many things down
because what we do, especially Carland I do, it could be masquerade
differently. And even the show wasa little off the kilter than what exactly

(18:18):
actually occurred, and that's nothing getsmarried Joe. But um, I wish
they said a lot of things thatI actually said what my advice was.
Um. But so that's why Ireally didn't say anything, because I was
kind of a little nervous to seehow it was portrayed. I think they
did a good job. It wasvery scary. It was a great and
Haunting always does a great thing theeleven seasons in you know, like they
do a hell of a good jobto make a little horror pick. But

(18:41):
you know it's not it's not mygig, and it was. It was
great doing it. And the reallythe only reason I truly did it is
because I wanted Caleb to see hisdad on television. He always sees Carl
on television. You always see thatleft friends he needs on television and he's
like, Daddy, why never Isee you? Kind of like and we
all made okay, I'll make ithappen for you. And you know,

(19:03):
he watched it, um, andhe was a static and that was that
was enough pleasure to my will James, because of course all of us will
be in Rochester in the weekend.That will will your son, Yes,
he will be how does he likehow does he like it? And of

(19:23):
course he's imaginative, but I haveto be stirred with him to understand that.
Like, um, you know,monsters do exist, but you know,
as long as you don't particularly onit and the monsters won't come into
play. But he loves it.He loves the people. He loves going
to old places. You know.We went to one of the oldest theaters
in Pennsylvania, Chambersburg, right,um, and you know he's been to

(19:45):
Fort Mifflin. He loves exploring,he loves like the oldness, he loves
meeting new people. And so heloves it, you know. And you
know, if he follows in myfootsteps, great, If he doesn't,
at least he had an interesting childhoodthat you know, you'll always remember.
And that's that's important to me.Yeah, definitely, that's that's that's when
way it went. Yeah, that'scool. Yeah, I um, we

(20:10):
haven't we haven't we We were supposedto be in Rochester past two years,
played every time it drew near Dueto personal issues, Dave and I had
a bit a rough couple of yearsfor me, for I've come to after
the tunnel and uh, I'm smellinggood, pretty clean at the end of
the tunnel too. But we're definitelylooking forward to meeting Carl person absolutely if

(20:37):
I have too many questions for you, Carol, once we get there,
just to get the hell away fromyou. So it's better time. But
I'm not a good time if you'reif you're able to just um chatting about
it. What was what was theexperience when you was on ghost Hunters in

(21:00):
my opinion, and that was theshow they kind of Yeah, it was
hectic, it was interesting, youknow, it was frustrating some I don't
know, I wouldn't boring, butit was because, yeah, we would
have professional disagreements, you know,about how things should be, how the

(21:25):
case to be conducted. Because thetelevision show did change things because tap the
Atlantic Paranormals study previously was grassroots,you know, go out and investigating the
cemetery, go to explore this person'shaunted house in Maine, and the television
show it became all about the productionthat you know, the television show swallowed
up our original modus um right,it was interesting, it's it's it's kind

(21:48):
of fun to be interviewing. Well, it's let's just say it's a departure
to be interviewing a client, youknow, somebody with a paranormally based problem,
and you're talking to them and thennot really there in the chair,
you're talking to an empty chair,and it's got to be fully inter edited
in later. And that's those kindof production things are funny, and I

(22:11):
think it's more interesting what goes onbehind the scenes that what happens in front
of the camera. Now, it'sa lot of the interpersonal interaction is it's
freaky, weird and all that.Why do you do get to meet some
very interesting people. We did travelsome and people with genuine issues, genuine
problems, and a lot more talkingand counseling went on, you know,

(22:33):
behind the campus when they're not filming, and you honestly sometimes forget that the
cameras they're filming those you know,those productions. You know, what wages?
What did I say, Do Ilook all right of my haircomb?
I was on television here? Youknow, you gotta forget it after a
while. So that makes it allthe more, you know, the interaction
with people genuine let's say right now, I mean, I guess this good

(23:00):
have to do with being one TV. But in general, when when a
home is being investigated, whether likeyou and James are initiating the investigation or
someone calls you didn't because they kindof made the determination that maybe something you
know, out of their pay range. Like how does the client react or

(23:27):
feel feel when they're being told,Hey, this might be something demonic and
we have to bring it a specialists. Then how did they how do they
perceive that when you first start working, they become very nervous, but also
excited and sometimes hopeful. But theyoh, this is really how But but
when here and a so called expertis coming in, but you know,

(23:49):
I would be that James is thatwe are experts. For quite a while,
I was shied away from seeing we'reexperts. I'd say, yeah,
experts in the unknown. But youknow, somebody's going to address these issues,
these problems, so they'll be Itbecomes very real to the person when
the specialist is brought in, likeyou're actually calling in a demonologist. You

(24:11):
know that's what I have now?So yeah, so you did. Those
are visceral reactions you actually see thecaptured on film. There is an air
artificiality about these shows during the production. But but some of it is gretty
real, and when they captured ona camera, Yeah, you're seeing their
reactions. You're seeing our reactions rightnow, James. I know, like

(24:36):
when Dave and I do one ofour lectures or what have you, people
always ask a club what made usstart doing this? What got us into
this whatever? And if it's scaredscared? Have you ever had an instance
where you went in to do whatis that you do and you were actually
frightened yourself? Yeah, definitely,I would be I would be egotistical to

(25:02):
say that I've never been fearful ofthe situations. I think there was at
a time in my in my earlieryouth. You know, I'm thirty one
years old, so I'm still young. But on my early twenties I was
a little bit more arrogant in theways I approached cases. Um, I
would go forward and utmost and gullibilityand imagination more than anything, and then

(25:25):
instead of trying to dissect a situation. But I always had that kind of
emotion or a fear or fright,because that's a physical, physio physiological thing
that occurs, fright or flight.You know, it's a brush moves,
we think it's an animal, Soof course, when you're going into a

(25:45):
situation, you've only maybe you've spokento that person vocally visually. Now of
course with technology, um you onlyhave a little bit of the story their
living arrangements and how they are.So I think you always go into to
a location with some sort of speculation, fear of what could occur, And
a lot of the times I've dealtwith cases, it's never really the way

(26:07):
I thought it would. You know, it would actually be smoother than more
difficult, or if I thought itwas too smooth, it would be more
difficult. So you always have tohave a level head and shoulder. But
I would say that the case thatI had the most fright from was definitely
the case I talked about that Ihad a prolific nightmare, and I will
expound upon it too much because itwill take a lengthy time. But I

(26:30):
had this nightmare that I really trulybelieve that a demonicifestation was involved with this
family, and it was able toperceive into my dreams, and I killed
family in my nightmare, and everythingI saw in my nightmare to the home,
to the people that had never sawfirsthand appeared in that nightmare and was
real in real life and the realreality of the nature when I got there

(26:55):
and the people were the same,the house was the same. The only
difference was I brutally kill that family. So I would say that would be
the instance that I'd had most fearin my life doing this, because there's
that what if what happens if Ipull a Lizzie Boarding right now and whack
all of them, you know,like we'd be there'd be a different communication

(27:15):
right now. I might be inprison and you might talk about jameson you
to the guy that went there toget rid of demons, would kill the
whole family, But that didn't happen, and you play that in your head,
and I still like think about itto this day, like whoa.
It was a life altering situation inmy life because it showed me for the
first time these things can penetrate yourself, yourself being um and and change your

(27:41):
reality in the confines of your brainand your mind and the way you think
and your consciousness. So um,yeah, that was definitely daunting right now
for those that are watched now orwill be done in them later. Through
all the work you've done, Imean, there's so many ways the demon

(28:07):
can get in or take over orwhat had you what if you had to
like narrow the field down a littlebit, what is the cause when investigating
it? A demonic side that yousee has uh you could say like brought
the demon forth or started this possession. Do you come across where where it's

(28:33):
kind of like the same thing againagain? That that causing these happenings or
is it just a vast variety ofreasons? Oh? Both actually, because
they If I had to know thecommon factor, it's when the demonic presence.
I wish we could say something elsethan demon like influencing, but nothing,
none of the nomen pure really suffices. You know, these things what

(28:57):
it feels connered and threatened, whenit's going to be challenged, when it's
you know, which actually reveals it. I'm surprised they aren't more subtle,
but I sometimes they are. Butwhen this entity feels threatened, feels like
it's going to be challenged, feelslike it might be driven out, that's
when things get chaotic. That's whenit tends to reveal itself. It's almost

(29:18):
like it's being trapped in a fire. You know, it's riding. It
doesn't want to be revealed, butit has to you know. Yeah,
that's when something might fly across theroom, or the picture might invert itself
and the chair might move backward,sometimes with the person in it, you
know. And I've seen Poultergeist activitytoo. It was just absolutely fascinating.

(29:41):
And sometimes I refer to a demonas a Poultergeist with a really lousy attitude.
Right, and now, it's whenit feels threatened, that's when it
starts to ride. That's when younoticed more overt paranormal act um, Carl,
you or James couldn't answer me,but you come across a lot that

(30:02):
people in client actually make this uhthese actions happen and unknowingly invite thing.
Then you know they think they're investigatingparanormal or just out having a good time,
perfect perfect casted. We brought youguys that actually bring the demon in

(30:26):
them and then you know not whenthey did it. And you guys come
across that a lot, Yeah Ihave. I don't. I wouldn't say
a lot, but it has happenedenough times I remember it. But where
the demon is like a rat andI'll say demon, what else am I
gonna say? It's like a randombullet that's ricoshing. It goes for a

(30:47):
target. If it can't infiltrate somebody'smind and thoughts, it'll move over to
the other one, even if thatperson is one of the paranormal investigating team.
And I've seen that happen a casethat I was just on the fringe
of getting to know James Anto.He was almost involved in that case.
It was just the timing by afew months that he was not. And
this case took place in Orange,Massachusetts and back in two thousand and ten.

(31:14):
And this entity, you know,the lead investigator was trying to be
very heroic and take it upon himself, you know, the co founder of
the team, and it did.It accepted his invitation and went into him
in the ways that he didn't expect. So some days it'll go around or
it'll hit somebody else. I'll noticesomeone all of a sudden, when the
investigative team is starting to get woozy, they look like they're they're going under

(31:37):
something. Suddenly they're erratic and it'sin them, and we'll go to another
person looking for a refuge, movingback and forth. And I want to
say that James James's testimony about thatthat vivid and disturbing dream he had.
I think that was kind of arite of passage for James. I think
that was the time where he hadto confront can I do this? You

(31:57):
know? This is this is real, real stuff I'm dealing with? You
know, can I confront? CanI be strong enough and detached enough to
come back these forces? And Ithink that was a pivotal time for him
when he overcame that, right,Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
You see what I'm saying there,because he could have been budomized totally.

(32:20):
He could have been said, thisis not for me, I'm not
going to do it anymore. Butthat's not what happened. Wow, it's
just I find this whole topic so, I mean, I know I'm usually
real chatty all over the place.I'm this topic is just so interesting to
me because you know, if I'vesaid it once, I've said it a
million times. My interest in theparanormal started as a young child, Yes,

(32:46):
um, going to in Catholic schooland we hear all these stories Zori
is either an angel, a demon, or ago. You know what I
mean? That back back forty almostfifty years ago, that's all we really
knew at the time as children wasyou know, something that was caused by
a dem something good was probably anangel or just had a ghost. And

(33:08):
I would hear the story with priestsre tell us about demonic position, and
you know it was shortly after likethe whole whole praise swept the world.
It was. So I always viewedany type of clergy or anyone that was

(33:29):
involved in demonology or exorcisms. Theywere to me, like I'm big into
superhero but they were kind of likesuperheroes to me, like like I'll shoot
the priests are coming in, orthe demonology that's coming in. This is
about to be real real, youknow. So when I actually saw that,
when like I said, when Iwas when I was used car from

(33:50):
watching Ghost Hunters, it just tothe next level for me because I'm like,
like, I know, these guysare going to come in and like
a kid kid, you know somepeople people that's no I mean, I
don't have a fascinated but I justlove that aspect of the feel of when

(34:12):
people come in and just just provide. It's a departure, you know exactly
you don't normally see. And Iwill say another common factor. Is that
always that time. I don't knowif James will concur with this, but
that time of feeling isolated, there'salways a time when it's a heavy entity
subject, something that's threatening. It'salways that time where I feel I'm alone

(34:37):
in this, you know, Ifeel alone? Why am I doing this?
It's very it's unsettling in here.I don't really want to be here
going through the motions. You know, I don't know what's going to happen.
I'm apprehensive about what's going to occur. How do you guys know,
Like when you're when you're in acase and you have cleared the person or

(35:04):
the land or the residents or whathave you of the bad stuff, how
do you know? What do youknow it's gone real that it's not trying
to wait for you to leave toflare our places? Man, James,
would you say about it? Yeah, I think it's I think it's an
environmental thing. I think it's asclose to nurture as possible. You know.

(35:27):
I think Carl and I and otherpeople that are involved in exorcisms or
demonology you call superheroes. But Ithink we have a different dichotomy. I
think we have a different build upof who we are. We're able to
process those emotions that come to usa lot faster and handle them a little
bit more professionally than maybe somebody elsewould. So if a situation at hand

(35:47):
comes to us, we're able tokind of trench forward with our great that
we've kind of countered in our lives. Um and so a lot of us
have either gone through a traumatic experience. Yeah no, so I totally lost
my subject on that point, butyeah, no, I definitely think it's

(36:08):
definitely a different build up of whoyou are, of the individual you are,
and when you're dealing with these cases, how you would know with how
they are gone is simple, youknow. I think it's I don't think,
Carl. I maybe some of thepeople claim there's psychic mediames or of
the player, or have esp orsome of the other things. The nomenclature

(36:30):
that words have been expressed by peoplethey say that they are this, But
I don't think, Carl, andI do. I use the word discernment,
but I think that's more because I'vegone through a dramatic childhood, I
understand what negative emotion is as aperson, and I feel that like I
went and I'm able to understand,Okay, I'm going into this environment,

(36:51):
I feel something off, Like okay, I can tell by how an individual
speaks to somebody that they're negative towardseach other, is uprift, there's fighting,
or there's these situations going at hand. So when that environment the barometric
pressure changes, like all the certainscientific things that could occur in atmosphere,

(37:12):
that if there's heightened emotion, whenyou start to feel that and your body
becomes more peaceful, that the peoplearound you become more peaceful. I think
that's a good point to look atwhen towards if something is gone or not.
And of course that could be justa facade. It could be gone
for a day, it could begone for a week, and then when
you leave and they don't follow theadvice that you give them, then it

(37:35):
could course assert itself back again.But so I think that's how I'm able
to tell. I think it's because, like I said, over nurturing the
urge of time, Like I've kindof understood the environment. But anybody can
do that outside of talent level too. That's an occupational thing. You know,
you can work every day hearing yourjob you're gonna put that out.
You're gonna have the grim face,You're gonna know that you hate your job.

(38:00):
It's gonna be apparent, it's gonnabe shown like a billboard. So
I think that's I think that's inthe same essence how we kind of detect
or understand that could be a relievanceof what we're dealing with at that point
in time. Now exactly how youjust exclaimed it makes absolute sense? Is

(38:21):
za is Za going with if someone'sclaiming they would call David and say,
hey, man, we have someparanormal activity going on, could you get
out? Where does it determine?How does the determination as far as you
all, where this might just bethat's something more than a spirit or someone

(38:44):
trying that it's fault, it's eternon defense where it might be more along
the demonic side. Is there certainfor people watching? Is there certain um
indications or sign or anything like thatto it may need the seat? Uh,
you know you help someone like you? Yes, I think it's instinctual.

(39:09):
At a certain point, you knowwhat to feel, you know what
to look for, and suddenly youdon't want to come out and stay.
We think you have a demon,We think you have something in human.
You know, you want to waitfor more confirmation, but that process is
going because we treat ourselves to lookfor certain things for the criteria. And
when it starts to feel you actuallyfeel darker in the room and the light

(39:31):
is dimming, you wonder about youknow, uh, is it my trick
of my eyes? But or couldit be something that's a little warning sign?
And then we go into that drivewe have that it becomes instinctual.
You know, you've got to dothis, You've got to do that.
You don't want to come out andsay it, but you're starting to suspect
it's something darker and heavier, andyou start to look for signs and it

(39:55):
will give signs. Yeah, ifit is inhuman, And again we have
to revert to the basic terms.There's something in human, then it's going
to reveal itself as such, andit won't take long, especially if you're
there to challenge it. The spirit, the demon, whatever, knows why
we're there. It's got a senseof that, and it starts before you
even start. Any confrontation is confrontingus at that point, and James and

(40:21):
I and we were working together,and that we would look at each other
we kind of with an acknowledgement,but we rarely get the chance to work
together in that capacity. Sometimes wehave and will. Then you start taking
the measures, and you start talkingto the person that's the target of that
demon, and you start asking themcertain questions without saying I'm asking the demon

(40:43):
these questions. I'm trying to,you know, verify the you've got a
demonic one, you start asking certainquestions of them. You're like, how
do you feel now? Like,you know, are you at ease?
Are you at peace? And they'llreact. The subject will react if it's
got that agitation, and it's ifit's the target of the demon. And
do you guys use anything other thanreligious artifacts the Bible, holy waters,

(41:08):
etc. Do you use any typeof scientific devices mental recording? Yeah,
detecting device is anything that's going tomeasure it parametric pressure, radiation, you
know the standard em but they're notoriouslyunreliable, but they will detect some spikes
in the atmosphere if there's electric justdischarge, so things like that, and

(41:30):
certainly an audio recorder, we wantthat. That's probably the most valuable tool,
you know. Yeah, all youif all you've got is uh an
e MF detector or K two youknow use it. K two is not
a device is electric games. Youknow that as well. It's made to

(41:52):
electrical output and electrical fields around.Of course, even like Carl A note
that basic EMF meters are are arefor not a constant application. You know,
a person amidst electricity, but welet off static electricity. If there's
a room that's ninety degrees sixty degreessaving degrees and we come in that usually

(42:15):
are ninety eight ninety nine degrees,you create a statictric electricity build up because
there's a temperature change. Anytime there'stemperature change, static electricity builds up.
So if you have that EMF meterat a constant reading, you're gonna get
false positives anytime. An electrician,which is most of the people that use
EMF meters professionally and scientifically. Ofcourse HVAC technicians too, with line voltage

(42:39):
of low voltage um you know it'sit's it's a pittapatternum reads. You know,
you go up to an outlet,see if it's live, then you
turn off the MF meter. Ifit doesn't have a constant anymore. Okay,
you know there's no, there's nosignal or there's no power going to
this outlet. So a lot ofthe applications we use are like Carl's and

(43:00):
audio I think is still can be. Of course I'm just contributed and lead
you down in the rock path.But I think if you use video,
audio, and of course the sharedexperiences people have I felt this and all
you felt that, but it's notcontrived. You know, it's not talk
about openly. But you both havedifferent notes and you're like, oh,

(43:20):
okay, because if you say itoutwardly, you can change that person's reality
instantaneously and you might not even thinkthat you did. But if you're writing
notes and you know, okay,I heard this audibly and then somebody else
didn't you write it down, andthen you come to agreement, oh you
heard that. We didn't talk aboutit, right. So there's ways that
you can look at, but wedefinitely try to go to scientific route.

(43:42):
We try to collect data. I'mworking on a case right now, and
Carl knew i'd probably talk about it. I can't talk much about it.
I actually will have things to showfor it. I think this is one
of the first cases where the clienthas been so open and allowing their story
to be told. And you know, some things are going on right now
and I jumped to the psychiatric ground. I thought this person could be crazy

(44:05):
just everything I heard. And youknow, there's just been certain things that
have been occurring that have been caughton video. Something that was caught on
video today that will blow my mindif this is true. And so we
have this documentation, especially of coursedeem Knowledgist. And if we're trying to

(44:25):
work with the Catholic Church or anotherchurch that requires this data like the Church
of England or Angelican Church, isthat they require data before an exosis is
able to come out. They wantto see a video of a preternatural phenomenon.
They want to see this audio orhere and not see it but hear
it. They want to see whythis could be more than something psychological.

(44:51):
And that doesn't denote to the factthat there could be something psychological at play,
but if there is actual phenomenon thatis that is able to be documented,
like Carl has been on many showsand they showed documentation of such activity.
You know, I wasn't on it, but one of the cases that
I didn't in Cumberland, Rhode Island. M for my ghost story that was

(45:14):
on in one of my cases thatECPRT I had investigated and Keith Carl's brother
had been involved with prior and thenI got father Bob Bailely involved. Was
that, you know, they caughtthe shadow figure that was bigger than the
twelve men they had, which waslike six to five James Holroight, big
tall dude. But this shadow figurewas slad as like as it can be,

(45:37):
and it took up almost the wholeframe of the door, if not
the whole frame of the door.And doors are no shorter than seven to
one, you know, even inolder times there were nothing shorter. So
this object was seven foot one andthat was easy enough to say, hey
there's something here. Why is thistall? Unless Andrew the giant carl Um

(46:02):
In our chat, her question ishave you basically ever ever been on an
investigation or whatever and ever client orthe person there had a demon and then
was unaware that they under any sortof possession. M. Yes, I

(46:25):
have those a case in Daniels inConnecticut where this a woman, you know,
a fairly young woman, had somethingthat was making her react and we
tried to isolate that like when wesay certain things, when we hold religious
objects, is she you know itwas actually uh right before you get too

(46:46):
killingly in Danielson, Connecticut. Idon't even remember the exact address, but
when we happened to, like,I opened my briefcase and just you know,
setting things aside, but with amotive, you know, I took
out across us not a crucifix,but across that one would wear is a
pendant. And she kind of shiveredat that, and you know, but

(47:07):
I don't think she was trying toimpress this. I think that was a
genuine gut reaction on her part,and she did not feel that she was
possessed unless it was something subconscious.She didn't seem to acknowledge any beginnings of
possession or oppression at that time.Yeah, there have been a few,
but her situation seemed to be resolvedbecause we were there and we talked to

(47:28):
her about it without ever saying Ithink you're possessed. We just prayed over
her and kind of did an intercessionright then the deliverance. My brother was
basically in charge of that. Andyeah, there have been some times,
but mostly they know something's up,like a case in Edmund, Oklahoma.
That happened in twenty ten. Thegirl was starting to get being taken over

(47:52):
by a spirit and she didn't wantto acknowledge it. And as we as
we conducted about thorough investigation, UM, we realized something was happening to her.
Mother said she'd becoming distance, thatshe was staring vacantly, and she
would react uncharacteristically to any kind ofemotional upset. And so we determined that

(48:13):
she was under possession. And thenshe did react as that and that was
a violent and minute to minute unpredictablesituation. Right, how come this is
this is a question for me,UM, how other certain exorcisms or if
you're clearing a house or whatever fromsomething, Dara, or how come some

(48:37):
cases take longer than others? Isit the the energy that that demon has
or is it the person Unwingley isholding there? There's a number of factors,
wouldn't you say, James, like, you know, it's both,
but it's more so with I beholderthe kind of you know, I definitely

(49:00):
think, UM. I know peoplethat deal with it hate to hear it,
but it has a lot to dowith themselves, their little power,
Um, their resilience, resilient nature. UM. Because what happens with the
demonic entity even in a negative circumstance, even in a negative person, they
break breaking down a little by littleto to get the joy of hurting you.

(49:23):
UM and a demon and the wordingof it, um, it's it's
it's ability is to find like Carlsaid, sometimes it's that bullet ricashang and
find the target. Um. Itfinds that person that it can adapt to.
It can can molest and manipulate andum if the person allows it to

(49:44):
linger. And I know some peoplesay, oh well I don't allow it,
but they invoke into their fear andaren't forcibly motivated to um overcome this.
You know, they're weakened from sometrauma. So U. Yeah,
the strength of the entity can bea play a part or the force UM,
but it's most of the person thatkeeps it. It's like where the

(50:07):
battery you know, in an inanimateobject, right if you if the battery
is gone, the toy doesn't operateunless it's parer normal and somehow moves because
it's manipulated by a force. Butit's very rare to see this in the
psychonetic it psychokinetic energy is very rare. Does it happen much? Um so?

(50:29):
But yeah, no, I definitelythink that the person's in temporom um
and it feels like psychology, parapsychology. I think our tempo pieces of the
puzzle when you're working with somebody andtrying to have them overcome a spiritual fliction.
Right, very well, gentlemen,we are we are almost out already

(50:52):
before we let you go and giveyou our most sincere, heartfelt and I
think how can people for guy,oh, it's fairly easy, James,
you want to give our handle,But for the website and other means I

(51:12):
made, it might be well,yeah, definitely, I meant it the
whole show, but I forgot wellDenology dot Org, Demology Incorporated, UM,
Panorama, Paranormal, do Dame AlgenFacebook, Carl al Johnson on Facebook,
James and Needo UM on Facebook,James Needo dot com. There's many

(51:36):
ways to reach us and usually likeif if it's needed to come together and
work together, um and yeah,that's how you can reach us. And
we have a show that will ofcourse Pierre once against you hopefully UM where
we have a YouTube podcast and Facebookpodcasts. Dual Dame anology. We have
like thirty episodes, so go watchthem. Um. We talk about a

(51:57):
lot of specific topics, topics.Nice gentlemen. We appreciate you being here.
Thank you. It was absolute honor. Man. I am just so
intrigued by what you and it's becauseof the field you're in and folk from
back in the day. For Iknew you guys. It's what you know

(52:20):
helped me go from just studying religionand spirituality and taking that step into the
paranormal. Thank you for everything thatyou guys do. It's amazing and we
were looking forward to seeing you guysfor a weekend and a week and a
half in Rochester. We'll be thereon the fourth so I'm not sure when
you got getting there, but youknow, parties on him. We'll be

(52:44):
there Friday. Thank you, Thankyou, James, thank you Carl.
We'll see let's see you guys.Love guys all right, you know,
yes, I love them, guys. I love it. I could have
him one for our absolutely, It'sjust I could pick the brave hours.
That whole realm, man is justso fascinating to me. And it's well

(53:06):
the only reason why I wasn't liketiming in Moore during this show is I've
literally tried to keep up with thiscomputer. It's been acting weird that I
like literally band aiding this show togetherstarted on my interview yesterday and it just
hasn't. Yeah, so I mayhave to wipe the computer out. And
it's been two weeks. We willnot be doing an episode because we'll be

(53:29):
in Rochester, New York. Basedon what um Our Network the LFE dB
Radio has set. We hope tomaybe do some sort of lie from the
event. You know, we willbe there, Keystone, it will be
there, tendency. We're all onthe same umbrella, on the same contract,

(53:50):
so we will definitely be there.I'll bringing all the cameraything just in
case we can run one, butif not, hopefully if not, with
four weeks. Thank you for lotsof love. We'll talk to you along
the way. You've been listening toStep into the Paranormal with Ernie Atwell and
David Siler. Thank you for listeningand listening next week for another topic and

(54:10):
more great guests right here on wlfE dB Radio Network.