Where Do We Go From Here?

Tailosive Tech Streamed: Feburary 19th, 2024

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Good morning, Good morning, Cooper, Tana. We're back. I know
it's been a while. There's beena lot that's been going on for me.
It's been a pretty crazy last week. But I apologize for so long
between the streams. I'm finally goingto be answering the questions the pro members
asked, and of course any questionsthat you guys ask in the chat.

(00:24):
You've been very patient with me,so for that, I appreciate you all.
Thank you, thank you. AndI also need to give a special
shout out and thank you to Mikeand Randy for recording the podcast despite my
absence. They did a great job. I listened to both of them,
and it's so much fun being aviewer or listener of the podcast. For

(00:46):
just every once in a while,I would listen to Mike and Randy talk.
Even if I don't know someday wasfully retired or lost the ability to
speak, I would listen to thoseguys. They're just funny and they did
a great job. So please checkout the podcasts if you haven't, even
the ones I'm not in, believeit or not, they're still pretty good.

(01:07):
But yeah, it's been it's beena slow content role for me over
the past week. But I'm hopingI can return to some form of normalcy
here pretty soon. It's just beenhectic outside of work. But I want
to jump right into the people whoask questions three or four days ago because
they've been waiting for an answer thelongest. We're gonna start with the WHOA,
it's not working interesting display capture?Did that work? There? It

(01:30):
is all right? Starting with hyJCHOI, he says, Remember how Steve
Job said the original iPad is aproduct that sits in between an iPhone and
a MacBook. With Apple Vision Proin its current form, would you consider
it sitting between an iPad and aMacBook or do you see it as its
own thing? Also, long term, do you think Apple wants Apple Vision

(01:51):
Pro to eventually exceed what a MacBookcan do? Or do you think it'll
remain stuck between iPad and MacBook,like how iPads cannot seem to get feature
parody with macOS due to software.There's like fifteen questions in there, but
there's a lot to unpack. Hieveryone Ethan's visualizer SDZEB. Do you talk
to yourself as a reply when you'renot on the podcast? Sometimes I text

(02:13):
them because I'm one of the fewlisteners that has both Mike and Randy's number,
so one of them will say somethingfunny or say something I think is
wrong, and I'll immediately text themand be like, ah, I like
when you said this or you missedthis part. Good to hear from you
all. Thanks for tuning in.But Okay, where does the Vision Pro
sit? If Steve Jobs looked atthe iPad is sitting between the iPhone and

(02:38):
the MacBook, That's a really interestingquestion I haven't seen anyone really tackle before.
And my gut reaction to that questionwas I feel like it almost sits
more between a TV in a MacBookmore so than it does an iPad,
mainly because of pricing. I don'tknow. I just I feel like Vision
Pro is obviously a very visually focuseddevice, and I've read a lot of

(03:02):
reviews, I've watched a lot ofreview videos of it and seen where a
lot of my overlap comes from inmy review video, and I realized that
a lot of people fall back onwhat are the strengths of Vision Pro,
And at least right now, itcould change in the future if they let
you start connecting Apple pencils with visionPro, but at least right now,

(03:23):
one of the biggest strengths that continuouslycomes up among people who review Vision Pro
is as a media consumption machine.If you want to watch a movie,
if you want to watch a TVshow, vision Pro is one of the
most immersive ways to do it,because you can act like you're in a
movie theater. You can act likeyou have this one hundred and fifty foot

(03:44):
sized TV floating over mount Hood,which is really cool, and it is
pretty hard to replicate that experience elsewhere, which is why, at least with
the first generation vision Pro, Ifeel like it's more Apple TV than iPad.
Oh yes, I know that visionos is baked on top of iPad
os and it does run a lotof iPad apps, But the truth is,

(04:05):
having used it for hours and hours, I started to feel more and
more like, Okay, yes,if a vision os app is not ready,
like if a vision os app hasnot been optimized, it defaults to
the iPad app. But the iPadapps are not the product's strength in my
opinion, in the same way thatlike when the iPad first launched, it

(04:27):
could run iPhone apps, but Ithink everyone knew from the beginning that that
was not the long term vision,no pun intent. This vision keeps coming
up like you could run iPhone appson the iPad and they were really small
and you had all this huge blackborder, and then they had a little
one X button at the bottom andyou would tap that and it would blow

(04:48):
up the iPhone app to be ona giant form of iPad screen. And
it was like, yeah, technicallyit works, but you can tell that's
not the intention behind it. That'snot the end all be all. Well,
that's kind of the vibe I gotwith vision Os. Yes, it
can run iPad apps, and Iguess that feels maybe slightly more optimized than

(05:08):
putting an iPhone app on an iPad, but it definitely doesn't feel like there's
any advantages, especially if you doany kind of typing within that app.
That's what I kept coming back tois I use Twitter a lot and I
use YouTube a lot. Those areprobably one of my two most popular apps
on my phone, neither of whichhad a vision os optimized version. So
when I use Twitter on vision Os, it was like, yeah, it's

(05:30):
kind of like using it on aniPad, but it's a little clunky and
the UI is not really optimized forthe eye tracking, and sometimes I tap
the wrong thing because the buttons arereally small and I had to pull it
up really close to me. SoI tend to side with Vision Pro being
more of a TV based product,not so much of a tablet based product.

(05:51):
Yet again, that could change withfuture software support and that kind of
thing. So if I were toplace it somewhere in the ecosystem, I
would say, you can pare itwith a keyboard, you can pare it
with the trackpad. If there's anyother Apple ecosystem you know similarities, I
would say the Apple TV is actuallythe closest, despite the fact that's a

(06:15):
drastically different price. Right, Butwhat else did you ask? He said,
would you consider sitting it between itiPad and a MacBook and see it
as its own thing? Not really? And then YJ choice is long term?
Do you think Apple wants Apple VisionPro to eventually exceed what a MacBook
can do? Or do you thinkit'll remain stuck between iPad and MacBook?
Yeah? I don't think I guessit has. This is kind of the

(06:40):
same debacle we had with the wholeiPad being limited. It's like it's totally
possible for the iPad to run macOS, like it has all of the hardware
necessary, but they still don't wantit to because I think Apple kind of
has this stubborn view of like,is an iPad, don't let the iPad

(07:00):
become a Mac. Even though theiPad has gotten so many Mac features and
so many Mac things, they stillwant them to be separate. Like I
don't know, maybe that's a bigpicture thing with Tim Cook and Apples.
They don't want too much product cannibalization, even though I think that they would
make more money if they made iPadand I don't think Mac sales would actually
die off if they brought macOS tothe iPad personally, But that's that's a

(07:24):
dead horse. I've gone down thattrain a lot, but I'm bringing it
up because it's an example that eventhough vision Pro probably will have and kind
of already does, have all ofthe hardware necessary to run macOS on its
own, like, I don't seeany problem. It has an M two
chip, just like a MacBook does. It has a display that you can
connect to keyboard and mouse to.It has speakers. It already basically like

(07:50):
through Mac external monitor support is kindof like you're using a Mac with the
headset on, So there's nothing reallypreventing them from booting mac Os up straight
from vision os and just say,hey, maybe you don't need a MacBook.
The headset itself can run macOS.But my guess is they don't like
having too much overlap there and theywould rather just the products continue to be

(08:13):
separate, which is why I don'tthink it will necessarily ever exceed or be
as open as a platform as macOSis. That's an argument that I've argued
with and I don't agree with,but it is an argument that comes up
a lot in the tech sphere,and when I talk to people on Twitter
and Discord, they bring it uppretty frequently that like, Apple keeps mac

(08:37):
os open because it's kind of beenopen. You know, you can do
sideloading, you can download apps fromoutside the app store. I'm using an
app that's not from the MacApp Storeright now on my Mac, which is
OBS. But they've had so muchmore success in far better sales when they
have complete control over a platform,which is why iOS is closed off and

(09:01):
Apple has to basically be forced toallow sideloading otherwise they're not going to do
it. And they probably feel thesame way about iPad os and they probably
feel the same way about vision Os. They want to keep it controlled.
They want to have you know,complete dominion. They want to have complete
ruling over all of the apps,and they want everything to go through the
vision Os app store. And ifyou bring macOS to it, it's a

(09:24):
roundabout way of allowing sideloading, whichis, you know, if governments are
going to force Apple to allow sideloading, I would say that would be a
great way to do it because there'salready a bit of an app market built
into that, and you could say, particularly the iPad and vision Os now
support sideloading. You just have todo a boot it into macOS mode.
I don't know. To me,that would be a great solution, but

(09:46):
I think Apple wants to avoid thatat all costs. Rap Bayel, thank
you for eighteen months of support,he says, Hey, Drew, do
you miss Apple vision pro cheers?You know, I know you guys all
want me to say yes, butjen Lee, I really don't. I
kind of I knew that my timewith it was going to be somewhat limited,

(10:07):
partly because there's been so much busynessand so much just out of work
life stuff going on in the pastweek. But also because I knew the
return windows only fourteen days, soI was using it a ton during the
few weeks that I had it,and I was trying to use it as
much as possible, and it waskind of overwhelming how often I wanted to
show it to family members, showit to friends, and I quickly realized

(10:31):
how difficult it is to articulate topeople how to use it, even when
you can share it, even whenyou can cast the screen or cast their
perspective onto a TV. Walking throughpeople how you look at things and go
through guest mode and tap your fingers, and some people wouldn't tap their fingers
the right way, I was like, Yeah, this is just not as
intuitive as I thought. I thoughtit was fairly intuitive, maybe because I

(10:54):
watched so many videos on it andI understood how the tech worked, but
a lot of everyday people in mylife did not. So it was kind
of overwhelming demoing it all the time. But it was also overwhelming to also
be packing it, having to chargeit all the time because the battery life
was so low, putting it on, messes up your hair, makes your
face look weird when you've been wearingit for hours. And it's not a

(11:16):
product. More so, it's nota product like my phone or my MacBook
or my airpod's even really like anyother Apple product in that it feels incredibly
fragile, because we all saw theJerry rig Everything video where we find out
that that entire eyesight display on thefront is basically plastic, super easy to

(11:37):
scratch. So I'm constantly worried whenI'm using it or transporting it that I'm
going to damage it in some way. So I'm babying it. And it's
not cheap, you know, athirty five hundred dollars product. Whether you
return it or keep it is justa liability. You're constantly worried. Don't
break this, don't break this.It's very expensive. Don't break this.
So I don't feel as comfortable bringingit around with me as I do my

(12:01):
phone, which I just throw inmy pocket, or a MacBook, which
is all aluminum on the outside,so I just close it, throw it
in my fronk, or throw itin a bag. I'm not worried about
damaging my MacBook, even though ittechnically was more expensive than the Vision Pro.
It just doesn't feel as fragile asthe Vision Pro does. It doesn't
feel like I would easily damage myMacBook or easily damage my phone, whereas

(12:22):
I did feel like I was goingto easily damage the headset all the time.
So I was constantly just stressed abouttransporting it. And unfortunately that's a
pretty important detail, because I cannotjustify Vision Pro or even feel good about
buying one if it doesn't move aroundwith me. I've noticed that with my

(12:46):
current ecosystem, I'm much more comfortablespending a lot of money on an Apple
product if I know that it's somethingI can easily take with me. Like
my AirPods, I can slip inmy little subpocket my iPhone and goes in
my pocket. My MacBook, Ican easily un clothes, throw it in
a bag, throw it in afronk or whatever. Most of the time,
I don't even put my MacBook ina bag. I just throw it
in the fronk or the backseat ofmy car, and I'm not worried about

(13:09):
it. And stationary products like TVsor desktops for me nowadays, because I
travel so much, is much harderto justify because I know that, Okay,
that means it's staying at home,and there's a bunch of times I'm
editing videos or working on the go, or traveling visiting friends or family,
or going overseas or whatever that I'mnot going to be able to utilize that

(13:30):
product, So that lowers the addressableuse cases. That lowers the likelihood of
me being able to say, yeah, you know what, I think I
can justify that because it means alot of the time I'm just not going
to have access to it. Andit felt like as I was using vision
Pro and trying to find uses forit, it kept coming back to,

(13:50):
you know, it's easiest for meto just leave it on my desk and
only use it when I'm sitting atmy desk. And what do I use
it for when I'm sitting at mydesk mostly an external monitor, which me
was not a good sales pitch forit, because for much less than thirty
five hundred dollars, I could justbuy an external monitor that stays at my
desk anyway, and there wouldn't bethis latency between switching between vision os apps

(14:11):
and my Mac, which there waswhenever I used vision Pro, just when
I wanted to look at the chatwhile live streaming, it would disconnect from
my Mac and think, I wantthe cursor over here, even though I
don't want to interact. I'm justtrying to look at the chat. I'm
not trying to interact with the chator click with the chat. I didn't
want to control the UI. Ijust wanted to look at it. But

(14:33):
because vision Pro is all based aroundeye tracking, every time I would look
at it, it would disconnect frommy Mac and I would have to reconnect
my mouse back to the Mac.And again, the refresh rate's not as
good on the internal external monitor aswell, so that it felt like it's
not a lot of latency, butit's a slight amount of latency that you
don't get when you're just editing straightoff the MacBook or when you're editing straight

(14:54):
off an external monitor, there's muchless latency. So I don't miss it.
I'm afraid. I'm excited for it, and I do think the follow
up generations are going to be moreand more interesting. But yeah, it
was. It was no surprise tome and I'm sure too many of you
that, Yeah, the first genis hard to justify. It usually is
that's normal. You know, thefirst Apple Watch was not that great a

(15:18):
product. The first iPhone had alot of limitations and could not do even
a fraction of the things we useour phone for now. Pretty much everything
I used my phone for now wasnot possible in the first gen iPhone.
I didn't buy the first gen iPhone. I was too young anyway. But
also a lot of people were skepticalof the first gen iPhone. They didn't
see all of the future potential withfollow up generations in the first one.

(15:41):
Rightfully so, because it hadn't beenproven yet. You know, a lot
of people act like you should haveknown. I knew when the first iPhone
came up it would be a greathit. You didn't really know that.
You were making a guess, butyou didn't know that. To be sure,
no one really knew at that point. It was only a few generations
in we talked about I think thison the last live stream. iPod was
a tremendous success over the long haul, but the first generation iPod was not

(16:04):
a huge hit. It didn't reallyhit its stride until three or four generations
in. That's when it kind ofwent mainstream, and thank you Penn for
joining Taylor's of tech Max. That'sawfully generous of you, way too much
support. A lot of people areasking what I think of things. I
have no idea what they are,So if I don't read your question,
it's probably because I don't know whatthat is. First, Jin, the

(16:29):
iPad will not be getting sideloading.EU only cares about iOS and Apple notice
that loophole. Yeah, but it'sit's just the iPhone first. I'm sure
it'll come to other products later.You're a gen z like me, tell
me what you think. I don'tknow. Yeah, I don't know what
that is. Let me answer moreof the pro member questions because I know
what that. I would love togive you my opinion on whatever you're asking,

(16:52):
but I don't know anything about them. James Sanders Cedar Lofts as recently
a pastor in Quotes used vision Profor a sermon illustration. I was offended
on many different levels. Interesting hecouldn't even use the right name for vision
Pro. He kept calling them Applegoggles. I tend to call him that.

(17:12):
I called him that with a lotof my family. He seemed to
demean his congregation while not even usingthe vision pro properly. He seemed to
be treating the vision Pro disrespectfully.All of that to say, what are
your thoughts on how you might useit as an illustration for others while treating
the vision Pro with respect? Well, a vision Pro is a product,
not a person, which is whyI don't see the need to treat it
with respect. You can disrespect productsif you think they are bad. I

(17:34):
don't see anything wrong with that.I've probably been disrespectful to vision Pro as
well. I've had a lot ofpeople complain about it, or point up,
I've complained about it too. Idon't see anything wrong with disrespecting a
product. If you don't like it, that's that's fine. How to might
use it as an illustration for others, I'm trying to figure out how I

(17:56):
answer that. I think the moreimportant thing to treat it with respect.
I think the best way to arguein favor of respecting it is to just
acknowledge that a lot of people workfor basically a decade on this product secretly,
and now it's all their work iscoming out, and there's a lot
of time and attention that went intovery little details on it. The pass

(18:19):
through, the hand tracking, theeye tracking, the R one chip specifically,
There's so much work that went intoit, So to respect that,
I think the most respectful way tohandle it is just to acknowledge that this
is the first gen, add thatcontext to it. Look at previous successful
product categories today in their first generations. I mean, some people might not

(18:42):
agree with me, but I wouldlook at the WEU, the Nintendo WEU
as kind of the first gen beforethe Switch. You know, the Switch
was a big success, but theWEU was kind of the first generation of
that, and it had a lotof limitations, and of course it wasn't
as big as Scalace. It didn'treally go as far, but it was
meant to be kind of a proofof concept with the concept of like playing

(19:07):
games on the go or playing gamesmobily. We you walked so the switch
could run. And in similar ways, first gen iPhone, first gen Apple
Watch, first gen iPad, they'relaying the groundwork, they're setting up a
foundation for something else in the futureto be truly great, but they themselves
are not that truly great. Youknow. First iPad didn't even have a
camera on the front or back,barely ran any iPad optimized apps. It

(19:32):
was mostly running blown up phone appsat five hundred bucks, with very little
storage and very little capabilities, noApple pencil support, still using the thirty
pin connector. The display was notall that great, bezels were fat,
speakers weren't very good, very hardto justify the first gen. I still
have my first Gen iPad. Iremember when we got it and it was

(19:52):
cool, but it was not whatthe iPad would eventually become. No,
I'm not trying to testa be carefulnot to hurt the Vision pros feelings.
Yeah, it's important to be respectfulto people, I would say, I
don't think it's that important to berespectful towards products, especially products from trillion
dollar companies like they should. They, of all people should welcome criticism because

(20:18):
they're the ones who need to tryto justify, basically, to higher the
price, the more room there isfor criticism, you know. That's why
I have a harder time criticizing theQuest three, even though I do think
the Quest three in a lot ofways is worse than Apple Vision Pro.
It's very difficult to criticize the Questthree when it's five hundred dollars five hundred
dollars for everything that had said iscapable of doing. Is not that much

(20:41):
money. Honestly, I wonder ifthey're losing money on the Quest three don't.
I don't follow meta very closely,but thanks to my key, let
me try it out and use itfor several hours and I was genuinely impressed.
After using Apple Vision Pro for severalhours and then jumping to the Quest
three, I was like, dang, this is this is genuinely impressive.

(21:03):
How similar the experience is a lotof people kept acting like, oh,
no Vision pros and a totally differentballpark. And I was like, okay,
but why what does the Vision Prodo that the Quest three doesn't?
And I never got a good answer. I never got a very strong all
people could say as well, theM two chip is so much more powerful
than what's in the Quest and I'mlike, yeah, but what are you

(21:26):
doing with that chip? What isthat chip unlock? And most people couldn't
say much. It was like,I mean the pass through is better,
and I'm like, yeah, itis, but it's not like Miles better.
It's like a little bit better.But we U wasn't really a first
gen The reason it failed was badmarketing, causing people to think the table

(21:48):
like controller was an accessory to theoriginal WI No. I think there's more
to it than that. It wasalso that it wasn't as mobile as the
switches, and there wasn't the joyCon thing. The JOYCN thing was genius.
But my point is it laid thegroundwork. You know, they probably
couldn't have gotten to the switch withoutthe WIU, without developing it and mass
producing it. I didn't watch duxof it on the Vision Pro, but

(22:11):
I watched our lightest tayleusub Tech podcastwhere Mike and Randy dove into it.
And I'm not a Mark Zuckerberg fan. I don't like Facebook. I don't
like their business practices, I don'tlike that they acquired Oculus, and I
don't use Instagram. I'm very muchanti Facebook in general. However, I
hate to say it, but Markdoes have some valid points. He's right

(22:33):
somewhat about how there are some objectivelybetter things about the Quest three regardless of
price. Even if Apple Vision Prowas five hundred dollars, there's still some
Quest three advantages. I'm sorry likeeven as an Apple sheep, BJ says
Quest three sales at a two hundreddollars loss. That doesn't surprise me because
the hardware was very, very good. So my guess is maybe they're,

(22:59):
you know, with more of agaming emphasis. Of course, Quest three
is trying to be more of agame console. Similar to other game consoles,
they tend to lose money on theconsole itself, hoping to make it
back through other sales, software asa service, that kind of thing.
At the end of the day,these products are mostly content consumption for ninety
percent of users and other dust collectorwithin six months. That was the main

(23:19):
reason I returned Vision Pro because Iknew that, you know, I don't
like returning products. I don't Idon't take pleasure in knowing that, Okay,
I used this and I tried it, and now I'm bringing it back.
You know, I want to findproducts that genuinely bring me functional uses
and that are tools and that bringme joy and that you know, spark

(23:40):
inspiration. I want to find productsI can keep. But I know that
it's very hard to justify if youknow that you're going to spend all this
money and there's a chance that it'sjust going to sit in the corner collecting
dust, which has happened to alot of VR headsets out there. I've
talked to so many people that havebought VR headsets and say they like hardly
use them, and I didn't wantthat to be the case with me.

(24:03):
I wish there was a longer termway to hold on to it and keep
it. And still I don't know, return it or get a meaningful amount
of money back. But I don'tthink these things are going to sell that
well in the used market, andit seems like Apple's not selling out of
them anytime soon, so the resalevalue is probably not going to be great.

(24:23):
And they're supposed to be custom fittingsand custom sizes for your head and
everything, so that kind of affectsthe used market as well. DEJW.
King says, pov tell me whatproblems vision pro solves. Literally list what
you can only do with vision prothat you can't already do with the smartphone,
laptop, desktop, or iPad.Okay, if you spatial photos,
view spatial videos, you expand yourvirtual content beyond the black mirror, which

(24:49):
basically means that you have infinitely sizedcanvases for your apps or your windows.
You don't have to say okay,my display can only be this big With
a MacBook Pro at sixteen inches,that's it. With a Vision Pro,
it's as big as you want itto be. You can immerse yourself in
different environments like Yosemite or mount hoodor top of mountains. Those were honestly

(25:12):
some of the most impressive demos forme and my relatives. I let my
grandparents try it. I let myrelatives who were visiting from out of state
try it, and those environments whereyou turn the digital crowd and it completely
immerses you, that was usually themost wow moment for them. My grandma,

(25:32):
she didn't know how much it costs. She tried it on and literally
said, I want one of theseher words. I didn't try to sell
her on it. I told herit's very expensive and I'm not going to
be keeping it, so you bettertry it now before I return it.
This was like the day before Iwent back to the Apple Store, and
when I turned on the environment's modeand she was looking around in Yosemite,

(25:56):
she just went, Wow, thisis amazing. I feel like I'm just
really wanted that. So those arethings that you can't do with an iPad,
MacBook or fun But of course onceI told her it was thirty five
hundred bucks, she was like,well, okay, I can't afford that,
but she was very impressed by it. Same way for media consumption,
you can have a giant extra monitor. And again, like Marquez and others

(26:17):
have alluded to, there's a lotof ideas. That's what makes vision os
and vision Pro so exciting to meis that the software does not fully unlock
the hardware. Yet there's so manyother things we could be doing with this
headset that we're just waiting on theright software for. You know what Grandma
wants for birthley. Oh god,I'm sorry, Grandma. I love you,

(26:40):
but I don't got that kind ofmoney. Yeah, I don't think
she would want me to spend thatmuch on it either. But uh saw
one on Marketplace for forty eight hundred. Yeah, I don't get why people
are doing that. There's there's peoplecharging so much extra for the vision Pro,
but you can still get them newfrom Apple. They're not like super
back ordered or anything. It's notthat hard to find. But yeah,

(27:03):
spatial computing is just we're barely scratchingthe surface on what it's capable of,
and especially I think in regards tomedia consumption, like, it's the top
of my list for vision OS twopoint zero, and I think Marquez did
a video on this as well.But being able to experience things with the
vision pro on that other people canalso see, I think that will win

(27:27):
over a ton more people. DareI say, I'm hesitant to say this,
but there might honestly be a lotof truth in it. I would
have been more tempted to keep itif we would have had a way to
sync movies and TV shows together,because I kept seeing that come up and

(27:48):
all the reviews, a lot ofpeople kept saying that media consumption is one
of the greatest advantages because it doesn'trequire typing, which is one of vision
Pro's greatest flaws. Is the typingexperience kind of sucks. It's just not
as good as typing on a phoneor on a keyboard. And we do
a lot of typing with our socialmedia apps and with our editing apps,

(28:10):
but you don't need to type alot when you're watching a movie. That's
why, you know. The typingexperience on our Apple TV's kind of suck
too. You have to either swipearound on that keyboard or use dictation,
which I still try to use,and it still sucks half the time.
It doesn't understand what I'm saying,or it erases the text, or sometimes
it activates Siri when you want itto dictate, and it just it's not
as intuitive as just a keyboard poppingup on a phone and typing on the

(28:32):
keys, or a keyboard on aMacBook and you just type on the keys,
but you don't care because on aTV you just type for a few
seconds and then you're watching a movie, you're watching the show, you're watching
a YouTube video. So if therewas more of a way to sync up
whatever is on the Apple TV withmy headset so that I can watch whatever
my wife's watching on the TV atthe same time, same audio, but

(28:56):
then I could expand that same movieto be a movie theater screen or to
hang it over Mount Hood. Icould have used my headset a heck of
a lot more and found it alot more practical if I could use it
with other people. But that wasthe problem. It was like, movies
and TV shows are a great advantagedivision pro it's a much more immersive experience

(29:17):
than any other Apple product is.However, only one person can do it
at a time, and I prettymuch never watch movies and TV shows by
myself. I pretty much only watchYouTube videos by myself, and there's no
YouTube app on Vision and using theSafari version sucked. It was not optimized.
You can watch movies with others atthe same time, but it's not.

(29:40):
It's not taking advantage of the Visionpro's experience like you have to be
in I've tried. I've tried todo the share play thing. Apple will
sink this devisive. They don't quicklyfigured out how to share with family.
That's why it's on the very topof my list. It's like, if
I can, if I can usethe headset while other people are watching the

(30:00):
same content as me, I couldhave used it a lot more and I
could have said, Okay, thisis my own personal TV and I can
have subtitles, or I cannot havesubtitles while the rest of the family does,
and I can have an immersive experiencewhile everybody else is watching the same
thing needs to be more social.It needs to be less isolating, which

(30:21):
I used to say it isn't isolating, but now after trying it, I
realize, yeah, it kind ofis. So there's there's absolutely things that
only Apple Vision Pro can do.It's an infinitely scalable external monitor that's more
portable than a studio display. Ithas a battery. It's not the longest
battery, but it does have one. So there's a bunch of things that

(30:44):
Vision Pro can do, but abetter a harder conversation to have. What
does Apple Vision Pro do that theQuest three cannot? Eye tracking, I
guess, but kind of like Zucktalk talked about, they had tracking and
they realized that it wasn't as usefulor as practical as controllers, so they
got rid of it intentionally. Butthey're going to bring it back, probably

(31:07):
on the Quest Pro second gen.I think that's going to be really interesting
because metas, like we've already established, Meta is comfortably willing to sell the
Quest three at a loss, andnow that they know a lot of the
things people like about Apple Vision Proand they know that they just have to

(31:29):
be cheaper than thirty five hundred,I think they're going to make something pretty
compelling. I think there's a goodchance that the Quest Pro too, or
whatever they call the next generation QuestPro, is going to be substantially cheaper
than Apple Vision Pro and probably beatit, at least on paper, in
almost every category. It'll have almostthe same resolution, probably better field of

(31:52):
view, a higher frame rate,lighter weight, better battery life, integrated
battery, lower price. Like wesaid, so, I think there's a
bunch of advantages to the Quest regardlessof price. And now Quest probably knows
that they can make a much moreexpensive headset with far better hardware to compete

(32:15):
with Vision Pro. Now it cando everything better except gaming. I don't
completely agree with that the Quest threehas a better field of view, like
the black border you get around yourvision. You know, when you're wearing
Apple Vision Pro. It's kind oflike you're wearing a pair of goggles or
looking through binoculars. You don't haveyour peripherals. The Quest three still goes

(32:36):
wider the Quest three. Also,I didn't think it would be that noticeable,
but I tried it and I didnotice. Quest three goes up to
one hundred and twenty hertz. It'scloser to lifelike refresh rate, which Apple
Vision Pro cannot Most of the time, Vision Pro is sitting at ninety hurts.
Occasionally it'll go up to one hundredhertz depending on the lighting. But
most of the time it's at ninetyso higher refresh rate, wider field of

(32:59):
view. So the Quest three isfar more comfortable having worn both. The
Quest three is lighter and you don'thave a big, giant battery bank to
be fumbling around with, which Ididn't think would be a big deal when
I watched the videos and when Iheard about people trying out Vision probably,
I thought, oh, okay,so it has an external battery, whatever,
I just put it in my pocket. No, when you're moving around

(33:20):
with that thing, having that cablearound and it gets twisted really easily.
When the battery flips like this,the cable doesn't rotate or anything, so
the cable gets tangled easily, andwhen you're traveling around with it, having
to wrap up that battery and thecable going to the headset gets annoying.
Where's the Quest three. The batteryis just built in and it's lighter.
There is more pass through distortion onthe Quest three, but when you're using

(33:43):
more fully immersed environments. My pointis the pass through on Vision pro is
not substantially better. I mean itis better, but it still it has
a different set of limitations, butthere's still limitations, like anything about this
CLI to me when I was wearingApple Vision Pro is incredibly blurry. It
was essentially useless. It was like, Okay, I can tell my hands

(34:05):
are there, but I can't seeany detail. So like if you picked
up your phone while you were wearingVision Pro, if you held it right
here, you wouldn't be able toread anything on the screen. You had
to hold it back like this,and it's fuzzy and stuff. So the
pass through is not as good onthe Quest three, but you could argue
both headsets are going to look farbetter when you're immersed in virtual content anyway,
because the pass through is not flawless. Even on Vision Pro, things

(34:29):
far away look pretty noisy, fieldof view is limited, refresh rate is
limited, and it's very heavy.So it's much much You're much much quicker
to get uncomfortable wearing Vision Pro inmy experience in Quest three. Also,
Quest three is much much easier toshare. Oh my god, I don't
think that gets talked about enough.It was so freaking easy for Mike who

(34:50):
had the Quest three. He waslike, Hey, you want to play
this game, I got a cueuedup for you. He could just take
it off and hand it to meand I'd put it on in boom I'm
playing itsion Pro did not work thateasily. It was not that simple either.
You have to tell a person yourpasscode and then the eye trackings off.
That happened countless times. Whenever Iwould try to share it with a
family member, I would say,here's my passcode, here's how you type

(35:13):
it in. A lot of peopledidn't grasp the eye tracking, and oftentimes
eye tracking wouldn't work that great becauseit's optimized for my eyes. So I
have to put vision Pro into guestmode, which is even harder because okay,
now it calibrates for their eyes,but they have to go through like
a twenty four step setup process.You have to tap a total of eighteen
different dots and pinch every time youlook at each dot, and then you

(35:37):
have to go through the stay awareof your surroundings thing. You got to
hold down the digital crown to adjustthe displays. It is like this pretty
much five minute process just to getvision Pro to work on someone else,
which makes it much much harder tomarket, much much harder to showcase to
others. Hey, do you wantto try this headset? And do you
want to see what it's like?Whereas the question three is like, here

(35:58):
you go, cool, let's play. I see the appeal of the controllers.
I know it's the more Steve Jobsway to do it, and it's
the more Apple way to be like, no controllers. Who wants a stylist?
Yeah right, it's more simple ifyou just look and tap your fingers.
I get why they did it thatway, but I still I would

(36:19):
argue the controllers for a VR headsetare far more practical than a stylus was
for a phone. Like the argumentin favor of controllers is pretty strong,
especially for shareability. If you wantto just hand the headset to someone else,
they don't have to go through atwenty four step. Seriously, we
counted how many taps and how manythings someone has to look at in order

(36:40):
to activate guest mode on Vision Pro. Yeah, Mike can attest. I
finished the beat Saber song, Mikesays, I just got done looking at
a bunch of dots. He wantedme to play what again? That literally
happened. Yes, when we wentand hang out during the big rainstorm.
Mike was like, here, youtry the quest three and I'll try the
vision pro. He just hands methe Quest three, and within a couple

(37:01):
seconds, I'm playing a game andI'm hitting stuff and he he literally took
you know, like five minutes justto get through guest mode to get eye
tracking working properly. So it's like, yeah, there's there's a bunch of
objective advantages to the Quest three despitebeing a seventh of the price. So

(37:22):
it's it's very hard for me tocritique the Quest three considering its price.
No way you will get normal peopleto work in the quest. Clarity means
everything in display. I had afriend that worked at a company that issued
out quest to everybody, and theyused him for workroom meetings. So h,
I guess maybe he's not a normalperson. The Quest three one hundred

(37:45):
and twenty Hurts is a check inthe box, not a beneficial feature.
The min a Quest three's capability torun out of twenty herts comes with several
drawbacks. I don't know what theyare, but all I know is I
tried it on and it looked morelifelike in regards to the motion. I
put it on, and I couldtell that the refresh rate is higher.
That's all I'll say. It waslike, oh, yeah, this is
better. Not the pass through cameraswere better, but if you're in a

(38:06):
fully virtual environment, which oftentimes Iwas with Apple Vision Pro. Because the
other thing I noticed is Apple VisionPro is far easier influenced by low light,
which I didn't realize until I usedVision Pro. I'm often working in
not the best lighting conditions, youknow, Apple, whenever they're demonstrating Vision

(38:27):
Pro or demoing Vision Pro or talkingabout Vision Pro, they always show it
in these super well lit places.A lot of the time we use our
devices in kind of darker rooms,darker environments because our eyes are so good
and we can see pretty well indim light. In Vision Pro, especially,
the pass through gets very fuzzy,gets very noisy and blurry when you're
in a low light environment, andit warns you all the time, hey,

(38:50):
you're hand tracking might not work allthat well when it's dark, which
was just all the more reason tofocus more on the virtual world and not
the real one. On users mainkind of more glitches or performance issues compared
I experienced it myself. When youtried the quest, did it feel okay
right away? Anytime I tried someone'sVR headset, I had to adjust the

(39:14):
I thing a bunch. I feellike i'd appreciate having the software do that
for me. Well, it's alot harder to do when you're using eye
tracking for your navigation, with whichvision Pro basically requires. But no,
I didn't feel dizzy the first timeI tried it on. It felt okay.
I didn't feel like it needed tobe calibrated or anything. I don't
think it needs to be calibrated becausethe field of view is so wide.

(39:37):
Like the lenses, you can physicallysee it. If you hold a quest
three in a vision Pro. Ihave the b roll here somewhere, but
just take my word for it.If you hold them right next to each
other, you can see how largethe lenses are, which I think means
it covers a wider array of people'seyes because you know, all of our
eyes are at slightly different distances,Whereas on the Vision Pro the lenses are

(39:58):
pretty small, so you have toget more specific, so they physically move
them on the inside to adjust foryour eyes. Why do you care so
much about pass through? Most peopleare not using it mostly in pass through,
I don't That was my whole point. I literally just said, virtual
is the emphasis on both of themanyway, But people were asking earlier that

(40:19):
well. I think a lot ofpeople compared the two, saying that Vision
Pro is far better because the passthrough is far better. Which is it's
true that it is better, butit's just not three thousand dollars better.
Let's see, the Quest three stockstrap is considered horrible by community. Somebody
get third party straps, but it'sstill better than Apple Vision Pro straps.
Yeah, that's true. I didn't. Maybe it's because I was used to

(40:44):
the Vision Pro strap, but Ithought the Quest three strap was perfect.
I think Vision Pro in its currentstate is worth a solid twenty five hundred
dollars, about as much as aniPad in a studio display. Yeah,
I mean the less the better,the easier it is to justify product,
the cheaper it is, even ifyou don't use it all the time.
If you can say it's a smallerdent in your wallet, then I guess
it's worth it. But I don'tthink I would pay twenty five hundred for

(41:07):
it, if I'm being honest,Even regardless of price. That the hard
justification for me was I didn't wantto travel with it, and that makes
it a really really hard sale.I was too worried about damaging it in
transport, and the battery life wastoo low, and it wasn't the most

(41:27):
comfortable thing in the world to wear. So even if it was fifteen hundred
dollars, it's like, the priceis less of an issue to me.
I'm not looking at it so muchas Apple needs to find a way to
bring this experience much much cheaper,although I would welcome it. It would
be much easier to stomach if itwas cheaper. However, I think similar
to the first iPhone, you know, the first iPhone was like five hundred

(41:51):
bucks with a contract unlocked. Ithink it was like seven hundred bucks.
What are we paying for iPhones now? A lot of people paying eight hundred,
nine hundred, well over one thousanddollar for our phones. So what
made the iPhone go mainstream was notnecessarily making it cheaper. I mean,
yes, there are cheaper iPhones now, you can get iPhones for much cheaper,
But if you look at like,what are the best selling phones globally,

(42:15):
it's usually not the cheap iPhone.It's actually typically the Pro Max model.
I think the fourteen Promax of thefifteen Pro Max was like the best
selling iPhone last year or the yearbefore. So it wasn't about lowering the
price for the masses. It wasmore about justifying the capability. It was
like, people will be willing tospend one thousand or twelve hundred dollars on
the phone if it's capable of doinga bunch of amazing things. That's kind

(42:39):
of where I fall more on theVision Pro argument is, I don't think
it's necessarily going to be about bringingthe price much lower, although, like
I said, that would be great. I'm not against the price being lower
if they can, but unlocking morecapability, improve battery life, better comfort,
integrating the battery into the headset Ithink would make me feel a lot

(42:59):
more comfortable with it, and alsojust making it faster, work more seamlessly
with my Mac and increasing the fieldof view and all those kinds of things
improving the user experience, and againadding all of the various software things I've
suggested that I think are possible nowI don't see any limitation. Just like

(43:21):
how I can connect my Mac asan external monitor via sidecar with the Vision
Pro do that exact same software handshakewith my Apple TV, so that whatever
the Apple TV is showing, keepshowing it on the TV, but also
just cast it to my headset sothat I can put that casting into whatever
virtual environment I want. I don'tsee any hardware thing preventing that. Maybe

(43:45):
it needs Wi Fi seven for thelatency to be really good or something like
that. But as features grow andas in intuitiveness grows, I think it
will be easier to justify thirty fivehundred because I could visualize the future where
they really max out what the softwareis capable of doing, and you could

(44:07):
argue that a future Apple Vision headset, this is like almost the last screen
you need. What if this isyour only visual Like every time you use
your Mac, you use the glock, that you use the goggles, every
time you use your phone. Evenif the hand tracking gets really good,
they can mask out. They couldput a virtual version of what your phone

(44:28):
screen is on top of your phone. No more notch right, no more
pill, no more dynamic island.They just put a virtual screen on top
of your phone. And then withhand tracking and the phone doing a handshake
with the headset, it knows exactlyhow you're tapping it, when you're tapping
it, that would come with improvedconnectivity, lower latency and all that kind
of stuff. And I could usemy phone while wearing the goggles and have

(44:51):
complete privacy if I'm using it inpublic, so no, we can see
what I'm looking at on my phone, but I can still use it and
type on it, and then Ican still watch movies with other people who
we aren't wearing the headset, orhopefully in the future, I can watch
it with other people that are wearingthe headset at the same time. And
also object occlusion was really disappointing tome on vision Pro, like some people
were comparing it on Twitter. Ifyou just take a cheap three hundred dollars

(45:14):
iPad with no light R, nodual camera, just one singular like ten
EIGHTP camera on the back, youget better object occlusion. I'm probably not
using the right term obstruction, Likeyou could put an ar demo in the
room and people can step around it, and you can put it underneath things

(45:35):
with a cheap three hundred dollars iPad, and yet vision Pro, with all
of its cameras and its light Rand all of its depth perception, it
still wasn't as good as a threehundred dollars iPad, and I was like
this again. The excuse isn't wellit's cheap because it's thirty five hundred dollars.
The excuse that we have to fallback on is well it's first generation.
Well it's the first one. Sothey're trying to just lay the groundwork.

(45:58):
They're building up what will eventually bean amazing thing, but right now
it's just a foundation. It's kindof like Vision Pro is a baby right
now, and we're mad that it'snot like it's older brother who's grown up
an adult. The iPhone is thegrown adult, incapable of doing all of
these amazing things. But we're madthat the baby. But this baby I

(46:19):
think is going to grow up anddo amazing things. The analogies just get
weird. If it were perfect,you would have returned it. Come on,
you are price motivated now, rightso being married, but you are
not a first adopter. I thinkit's not one or the other. But
my point is, even if visionPro was one thousand dollars, I wouldn't
keep it, just because a lotof tech products that I review, I

(46:43):
have this one moment where the decisionis made. It's like, not a
not during the review video, notduring a livestream, not where I'm discussing
it, but when I'm going aboutmy daily life trying to integrate, whether
it be an iPad or an AppleWatch. If I am trying to go
about my day life with a producti'm reviewing, and I reach a point
where I go, this is justtoo annoying to deal with, or this

(47:07):
is just getting too frustrated to manage, I'm not bringing it with me,
or I'm not going to use it. That was the moment for vision Pro
for me was we were picking upa bunch of stuff and loading up the
car, and I knew I wasgoing to need to edit a video on
the go and not be at home. So I packed my AirPods, I
packed my Mac, and I hadmy phone. And we were also going
to a friend's dinner. So Iwas holding a bowl of salad and I

(47:30):
was carrying all the stuff to thecar at once. And by the time
I got to the car and wasloading it in, I realized, oh
crap, I left the vision Proinside and we were already kind of running
late. I was like, doI want to run and grab the headset
so I can have a virtual externalmonitor when I'm editing later, and my
gut reaction was I'm annoyed with howmany things I have to pack with me,

(47:52):
and I like traveling lights. That'swhy I still use one of these
wallets. And I realized, like, this is just becoming annoying, it's
not becoming useful anymore. So thatwas kind of the moment where it was
decided for me, like, no, I don't think I should keep this
because I'm basically only one week intoit and I'm already leaving it behind and

(48:14):
I'm not taking it with me.So that was the moment where I was
like, yeah, it's not necessarilya price argument to me. It's like
the functionality of it, the usabilityof it is just not quite there to
be justified, at least right nowwith my essentialist mindset. It's not I
didn't sell my iPad or sell myApple Watch because I needed the money.

(48:35):
I mean, money's nice to have, of course, but I sold them
for very little compared to what Imade for them, and I didn't really
like get to go out and buysomething with the money I sold it with.
I basically just put it aside.It was like, I just don't
like holding on to things that don'thave a function. That's what essentialism is
all about. It's like, ifyou do have something, it has to

(48:57):
serve an absolute purpose that's very useful. And how I felt about my phone,
my MacBook, my AirPods, islike, these serve a very definitive
purpose, and I wasn't getting thatout of my iPad. I wasn't getting
that out of my watch. Soin the same way, I wasn't getting
that out of the headset. Itdidn't serve a very essential purpose. It
was like my wife would ask me, what would you need that for?

(49:19):
What would you use the vision Profor? And it was like, well,
I guess my top favorite feature ofit is using it as an external
monitor. But again, you canget much cheaper external monitors, and that's
I've already proven that I don't needan external monitor to edit my videos like

(49:39):
I've been getting by with my sixteeninch MacBook Pro for years. I like
having an external monitor for having thatadditional window space. But what I didn't
realize and why I would still choosean external monitor over the headset, is
how many steps are involved with settingup Vision Pro. It got old very
fast, you know, when you'refirst setting up up and you're first using

(50:00):
it, you're just wowed by itbecause you've never used a product that similar
to it before, so it's excitingand it's cool. But after a while
and the cool factor wears off,it's like, Okay, I open up
my MacBook, I unlock it withtouch ID. I put on my headset,
I unlock that with optic ID.I look at the MacBook, I
hit connect. Then it has toconnect and then all the windows need to

(50:22):
be resized again, and it's like, okay, there's a lot of extra
steps now. And when I getout of work, I have this giant
imprint around my face, and everytime I would wear it for a few
hours and come out of my office, my wife would be like, ooh,
I can tell you've been wearing it. It looks weird and your hair
gets all messed up. So itwas like, I wouldn't have any of

(50:42):
these things if I just used anexternal monitor and I could just unlock my
Mac and boom, the monitor's readyto go instead of this whole connect process.
Pastor is really necessary when using aBluetooth keyboard. That's true, the
past through is helpful for that butQuest has a way of pasting your existing
pasting a virtual keyboard on top ofyour physical keyboard, and it works pretty

(51:06):
well. I tried it with anotherfriend's Quest, not Mike's, but he
had the virtual Desktop app working onhis Quest, and it literally pasted a
virtual keyboard on top of my MacBookkeyboard. And even though I'm not looking
at anything through past through, thepass through cameras were not active. I
could ask my wife or my friend. I'd be like, tell me what

(51:27):
letter to push. They'd be like, put your finger on the letter Q,
and I could do it. Itwas that accurate. The hand tracking
and the virtual keyboard tracking was goodenough that I could reach everywhere on the
keyboard and hit exactly what I meantto even though technically I couldn't see it.
There was no pass through active,which I was pretty impressed by.
Sure, I'm price sensitive and pricemotivated, but my point is when it's

(51:52):
a big purchase, it's a bigpurchase, Like do you want to drop
one thousand plus dollars on something?Whether it's two thousand and three thousand doesn't
make a big difference to me.It's still a big purchase. Regardless to
me, It comes down more tois this going to be a useful purchase?
Am I going to use it regularly? Can I travel with it?
And I think with a few moregenerations it getting thinner, lighter, more

(52:15):
durable. It's not that I'm againstpaying thirty five hundred dollars for one,
it's more can it fit the utilitythat I would expect for a big ticket
item like that? If if theuse case was currently like if it was
a price limitation, I'd go outand buy a Quest three right now,

(52:38):
because the Quest three does so manysimilar things, Like I saw a lot
of people bring it up, includingmyself. Their favorite feature on Vision Pro
was using it as an external monitorfor the Mac. You can do that
on the Quest three. I've triedit. It works, it's pretty well.
In fact, you can do multiplemonitors on the Quest three. If

(52:59):
it was really that sortant to me, I would go out and buy the
Quest three because that's much much cheaperand it would basically do exactly what I
expect it to. But I'm notat the point yet where I feel like
it's practical enough or immersive enough tojustify that expense. I need some more
software and the ecosystem helps with that. Like I said, with the sinking

(53:21):
up of what the Apple TV isshowing with what the Vision Pro is seeing
that that would help. And that'sstill not really a thing with the Quest.
The experts talk about the Quest mappingis archaic. The warping on the
edges and the latency. You willignore that because it's cheaper. Well,
it's more noticeable on the edges,but again it's not like the Vision pros

(53:42):
immune. The pass through still hassome blurriness and it still has some noise,
So it's it's better. It's closerto reality on the Vision Pro,
but I'm more critical of that beinga thirty five hundred dollars product and the
Quest three is being five hundred dollars. It's like, okay, yeah,
it's not flawless, but the thingsthat it's able to do objectively better is

(54:05):
darn impressive considering how much cheaper itis. Brick Cahrt says M two chip
is not what's limiting Mac Virtual Display. It's the fact that it's four K
and wireless. Too much of acompromise. If you did multiple Oh you
guys talking with Elizabeth, because Iwas going to say yeah, I understand
the M two has nothing to dowith the virtual display. I was going
to say it had more to dowith the Wi Fi connectivity, which right
now it's Wi Fi six. Arguably, the travel case should be included since

(54:30):
it's a luxury price product. Eventhen, I checked out the travel case
in person at the Apple store,and it's not small, at least for
someone like me who tries to travelas light as possible. I didn't think
two hundred dollars was that outrageous forthe travel case. I thought, you
know, if it's a thirty fivehundred dollars product, two hundred bucks is

(54:52):
about five percent of the price.Buying a two hundred dollars case for a
thirty five hundred dollars product is aboutthe same as spending fifty dollars for a
case on a one thousand dollars product, which we do all the time with
our iPhones. All the time,people buy fifty dollars iPhone cases, So
I'd say, yeah, it scaleswith the price. That sounds about right.
But what I was more not interestedin was the fact that it's just

(55:15):
too big, which is why againit comes back to that external battery in
that huge cable and that's the onlyway to use it, and the headset
itself is already pretty heavy. SoI would literally just picture a pair of
ski goggles, how thin they are, how light they are, something I
would feel more comfortable putting down,wearing around my neck. That's when the

(55:38):
utility, the ease of using it, I think, would start to make
a bit more sense, and thatto me, I could justify thirty five
hundred. I don't think it's amatter of price. It's just a matter
of functionality. Burkhart's never bought afifty dollars iPhone case. I haven't recently.
I used to, but people doit all the time. I wish

(56:00):
there was a handjester to pull uphome screen similar to quest. I guess
a handjester would be nice, butI didn't find the digital crown that hard.
Half the case being empty space isn't. Yeah, it's not very space
efficient. As someone who travels aslight as I do, me and my
wife often will fly on super budgetairlines and we'll get amazing deals, like

(56:21):
you know, fly across the countryfor one hundred bucks kind of deals.
But usually when you do those kindsof low airfare deals, you don't get
to check luggage, and sometimes youdon't even get a carry on. You
get a personal item, which certainbackpacks will qualify for. But that travel
case I looked at would take uplike half of the space in my backpack,

(56:43):
which doesn't really make it that portableif it fills up half of my
entire backpack. Yeah, glasses isdefinitely the ultimate goal, but I think
that's a little too ambitious, whichis why I'm giving them the benefit of
the doubt that still leaving it asa strap that goes behind your head might
be more practical. I genuinely wonder. I'm so fascinated by the hardware because

(57:09):
that's where all the limitations. Well, I guess there's limitations on the software
too, but like, I thinkit's really possible to make a headsite like
that without fans, at least theexperience I had with the Quest three,
I was like, this is somuch lighter, and the batteries built in,
and sure the resolution isn't as good, Yeah it's not old, but

(57:30):
it still looked great. The thingis, you're not often looking at true
deep blacks with your virtual content anyway, so the difference between I don't know
what the quest uses. It's probablyjust some LCD, but the LCD they
used in the quest was still verygood compared to the micro o lead.
I was like, yeah, Iwould go all liquid written on that headset.

(57:52):
If they could design the Vision Prowithout the eyesight display. That was
a waste of time. In myopinion, everybody who looked at it thought
it was creepy and weird. Idon't think it delivered on its intended purpose
at all. And people wear sunglassesall the time and they can't see your
eyes, and people wear headphones allthe time, they can't see your ears.
I don't think there's a need toput the user's eyes on the outside

(58:15):
personally like most of the time,it didn't work anyway, and I don't
think it really ruined the experience.So I would get rid of the eyes
I display. I would try toput more efficient silicon on the inside that
allows them to design it without fansif it didn't have to be passively cooled.
I feel like that could shave offa lot of weight and a lot

(58:36):
of bulk. As much as Idisagree, you make too much sense.
Well, I like articulating things,but there could be some portal feature where
you're immersed and there's a small rectanglepass their cut out for keyboard. That's
kind of what I did most ofthe time with Vision Pro. I would
put up my external monitor and thenI would turn the digital crown and it

(58:57):
would wrap around the monitor, butI would leave just enough space. It
doesn't when you immerse yourself in anenvironment, it tends to go more this
way and it won't completely immerse beneathyou, which is why I could immerse
myself in the environment, would getabout ninety degrees and I could still see
my MacBook keyboard, because when youimmerse yourself it goes side to side first,

(59:21):
not up and up and down.First. Let's see what do I
think of the eleven inch twenty eighteeniPad pro. Still great, Still a
good deal. That's about it.But let me not forget. Marjell had
a question as well. I wantto make sure I answer that. So
it seems like you've been having softwarestability issues with your fifteen pro that could

(59:42):
be impeding your ability to make videosefficiently, at least according to your tweets.
Have I found a solution to ityet? No? Also, if
the problem persists, is it annoyingenough for you to actually switch phones again.
Yeah, that's a debate I'm currentlyhaving. So if you haven't been
following my tweets, I a couplemonths ago switched to record all of my
videos on my phone, so Idon't have my black Magic camera anymore.

(01:00:04):
So pretty much all my videos areshot on iPhone, and for the most
part, it has been fine.But every once in a while I'll have
this very frustrating bug and everyone toldme this other guy on Twitter, Dunk
or whatever his name is, otherpeople have had similar issues. But that's
all they'll tell me is that hehad the same problem. Okay, how

(01:00:24):
did he fix it? Oh hedidn't. He switched to an older iPhone.
It's like, okay, that doesn'thelp me here. They just like
telling me other people have had this. But every once in a while,
I'll be recording a video and it'llbe at random intervals. Sometimes it's within
the first thirty seconds. Sometimes it'safter ten minutes of recording. It'll just
stop recording and it won't make asound, so I won't know that it's

(01:00:47):
stopped recording, which is normally whyI record with my ringer switch on.
I don't have a switch anymore,but in control center, you know,
you can set it to it's noton silent, and the phone will just
stop recording and I won't hear it, and I lose a huge chunk of
the video I'm recording. And itgets very, very annoying because sometimes I'll
record a video that's, you know, before editing, it's fifteen twenty minutes,

(01:01:13):
and if it stopped recording after four, then I just wasted all of
this time recording or I thought Iwas recording, and I wasn't. Very
very frustrating, I took it tothe Apple Store. They ran diagnostics on
it and said nothing appeared to bewrong, and all the Apple Store told
me to do was to factory resetthe whole thing, which is a lot
of pain in the butt to mebecause you have to reinstall a bunch of

(01:01:36):
apps. And I have a tonof apps installed on my phone, all
signed in, which I like,because there's so many passwords to keep track
of, and it's a pain inthe butt to reinstall a bunch of things
over and again. There's a bunchof apps that I use that still require
the two factor authentication thing, soit's a big headache and they said,
do you want to factory reset ithere in the store, And I was
like, no, I can dothat. I don't need you guys to
do that, And also it's abig pain in the butt, so I'd

(01:02:00):
rather do it when I have abunch of free time, and when I
was at the Apple Store, Ididn't have that much free time, so
they didn't have any solutions for me. They just said it's probably a software
bug and it might get fixed ina future software update, but we don't
know because I've said I've updated it, and I've had this bug on multiple
software versions, which is partly whyI wanted to report on it. I
wanted to drag some attention to itso that hopefully Apple would find out about

(01:02:22):
it, or maybe other people whoare having the same bug would report on
it and say, Okay, yeah, I've had that happen too. So
I've had people suggest, oh,it's a RAM problem, so just make
sure all the apps in the backgroundare closed. So I tried doing that
for a while and the bug stillhappened. So I don't know. I

(01:02:42):
don't know how to stop it fromhappening. But I'm having the debate because
some people are saying, would youswitch phones to fix this bug? And
it's like that introduces a bunch ofnew problems because I use iOS and I
appreciate iOS a lot, and youknow, I really loved that Pixel eight
as a video recording tool. Butthere's a bunch of things in my ecosystem

(01:03:04):
that fall apart when I don't havean iPhone. So Apple's trying really hard
to get me to stay. Andthe other problem is Android does not try
very hard to win me over becausetheir apps are not as well optimized,
and they're not as clean, andthey don't they're not as compatible with computer
functions that I use, like airdrop or Continuity Camera. I have to
go through roundabout crappy third party appsin order to unlock what my iPhone does

(01:03:29):
natively, So I think if Iswitched to an Android phone, I would
probably fix one bug I had withiOS and then find five more on Android
that I didn't have on my iPhone. So right now I'm just kind of
putting up with it, hoping thatthey fix it in one of these software
releases. But it's very frustrating becauseit's not consistent. If it happened every

(01:03:50):
single time I recorded a video.I would probably I would probably consider switching,
but it's not every time I'll go. I'll record like five videos and
not have a problem. Then onthe sixth one suddenly it happens again,
and maybe get it escalated. Thankyou, Burkhardt, I'll report it again.

(01:04:11):
I've had a similar issue with email. I'd spend fifteen to twenty minutes
composing an email and then when Ipress send, it just says cannot send
mail, and it just disappears,not in drafts, not and send,
just gone. That's really frustrating.Geez. See. My work around for
that, not a solution, buta workaround, would be to write the
email in the notes app and thencopy it and paste it to mail.
Randy says, switch to a Microsoftphone. It's funny enough. I have

(01:04:33):
one in storage somewhere. I havesome old Lumia phone, but I don't
think it works. I don't thinkit turns on. But yeah, it's
a very annoying bug that I don'tknow if it's just something isolated with my
phone, and it'd be a veryexpensive fix to try to discover if as

(01:04:53):
buying a whole new phone and switchingto that phone fix the problem. What
if it doesn't. What if Ibought What if I said, Okay,
I don't need the fifteen Pro anymore. I'll actually switch to the regular iPhone
fifteen. What if I switch tothe iPhone fifteen and then I have the
exact same bug. It's kind ofa big headache. So I'm hoping it
just gets fixed via software. Butmaybe airplay or phone screen to your max

(01:05:16):
so you can see the indicator.I guess that's one idea. I don't
know if that might affect the recordingability. I don't know that's a good
idea. I might try that.Thank you for suggesting that, Carl.
That's what I've been doing. Itworks fine, but the one time I
forget, Yeah, just erase thewhole thing. Sorry about that. Android

(01:05:38):
has all kinds of little bugs likethat too, where they're not super obvious
and they're not super repeatable. Thoseare usually the worst kinds of bugs are
the ones that you can't you can'tget to show up. It's really easy
to find a bug that is consistent, like every time I put these two
apps in the same folder, thewhole system crashes it. Every time you
do that, you show it working, but when it's inconsistent. Oh it's

(01:06:00):
the most annoying thing in the worldbecause you could go to someone else and
they'd be like, so, whathappens, And I'd be like, here's
what happens. And they'd be like, okay, can I show it?
Can you show me what happens?And I'm like, no, I can't,
because it only happens every other Itonly happens once every six times or
something. Maybe use black magic appensthat. I don't like the black Magic
app because it makes it puts itin the stupid app, their app,

(01:06:24):
and then you export it to photosand then you got two copies of it.
It's just I tried to use theblack Magic app for a while and
it was just too big a hassle. They did it for the event,
but they just had one phone thatprobably was a terabyte of storage. And
they're not making videos that Apple releases, you know, ten videos a year.

(01:06:46):
I'm releasing two videos a day,so I'm having to move files around
and transport things all the time.Randy's asking what's wrong with the fifteen pro.
Basically every once in a while,when I'm recording a video on it,
it'll just stop recording without warning.Also, the airplay thing doesn't exactly

(01:07:08):
solve the issue either, because itlets me know when it stops recording,
but I still have to get upand hit record again, which I shouldn't
have to. You know, thisphone's got eight gigs of RAM. I
know it's capable of recording long videos. It doesn't happen every time. Like
I said, I tried saving itdirectly to the Photos app, and it

(01:07:30):
still wanted to keep it still wantedto keep a copy in the black Magic
app as well. I don't know, I didn't. I remember playing around
with it and it was like youcan save it to photos and the app
or just the app. It wasn'tlike photos only. But still I don't

(01:07:51):
I think if it's a bug whereit thinks I'm pressing the volume key or
something it thinks I'm hitting stop recording, I think that would affect I don't
think it's overheating issue, because forone, you get a warning on the
iPhone when it says it's overheated,and for two, sometimes it stops after
two minutes of recording, and othertimes I'll record a video that's thirty five

(01:08:13):
forty minutes and it has no problemso again, it's not consistent, it's
not very repeatable. There's been timeswhere I'm like, Okay, this is
going to be a long video.I'm gonna I'm going to record for forty
minutes and it'll do it, noproblem, didn't overheat, no issues.
But then in other times, itcan't make it thirty seconds. It'll just
stop without warning, and it's like, what's causing this. It feels like

(01:08:36):
there's some kind of phantom. It'slike a ghost. It's like the ghost
of Steve Jobs is tapping the stoprecording button at very random at very random
intervals, without much consistency. Butif it's detecting that some input method is
telling it to stop recording, it'snot that the storage is full. The
storage is nowhere close to being full. It it's still would happen in the

(01:09:04):
black Magic app too. Yeah,I've reported it to Apple. It just
like problems, what are those?No, I don't experience a lot of
bugs. This is pretty much theonly bug I've run into. The one
other bug I ran into that onlyhappened once was when I was dropping off
my family at the airport, andbecause there were so many family members,

(01:09:25):
we had to take two cars,so my wife was driving the Tesla back
home. I had to drive thisold F one fifty back home, and
it was an older F one fiftythat doesn't have a screen, doesn't have
GPS or anything, so I hadto pull out my phone and use Apple
Maps to route. We were actuallygoing to the Apple Store after that,
not home, so I had toplug in the Apple Store directions from the
airport, which I didn't know byheart because I normally don't take that route.

(01:09:47):
And I opened up Apple Maps andit just straight up nothing would load.
Like the app was open and itwould show me recently plugged in addresses,
but I couldn't type in a newaddress. Nothing would show up,
and I couldn't hit go. Therewas no here's the directions to that location.
And the cellular was working. Icould open other apps and the data

(01:10:09):
was working, so it wasn't acellular problem. It had connectivity. I
could text people and I could openSafari, and the websites were working.
It was just Apple Maps just straightup wouldn't load any directions. And I
tried closing Apple Maps and opening itagain and it still wouldn't work. So
thankfully, it was crazy busy andthe truck is really big, so I
couldn't get out of the place wherewe stopped by the airport to unload all

(01:10:30):
the family members. But I hadenough time because there was so much traffic
and I was signaling and trying tomove the truck, but there was too
many cars in the way. Thankfullythere was traffic, so I couldn't leave,
but I rebooted my phone. Ibasically did a hard shut down,
started it back up again, andthen it was fine, and then Apple

(01:10:50):
Maps worked, so that was it. When you're in situations like that,
like I got a drive or I'mrecording a video and sometimes there's people expecting
me later in the day or peoplewaiting on me, I don't always have
a lot of time to open upthe feedback app and describe exactly what it's
like. I gotta go, soI try to report things with the feed

(01:11:11):
feedback app when I can. Butalso, like Burkhard is saying, the
feedback app is pretty much useless unlessyou know someone that escalates it. That's
why I report on it so thathopefully other people can know they're having the
same thing. Sorry, green Pad, I'm not going to be that picky
about my background. I'm not goingto iron the flag. It happens all

(01:11:38):
the time with Apple Maps. It'sthe first time it's ever happened with me.
But also, I don't use AppleMaps on my phone very much because
usually I'm driving around my Tesla,which has navigation built into the screen.
Anyway, do I have the feedbackapp? I don't remember, but in
those most of the time, inthose situations, I don't have the spare
time to open up and make areport. Sonny Pettel says, your vision

(01:12:00):
Pro review is amazing. Oh,thank you very much. But yeah,
the bugs with the fifteen Pro areannoying because they're not that many and they're
not that repeatable. But when theydo happen, they're incredibly frustrating. And
the most frustrating thing about the bugis it's an amazing phone. I love
my fifteen Pro. The camera's fantastic. I've taken so many pictures and videos

(01:12:24):
with it. I love the actionbutton. Honestly, I didn't expect the
action button to win me over asmuch as it did. At first.
When I read about it, Iwas like, Okay, big wep.
It's just a remappable button, justlike the Apple Watch. Ultra, what's
the big deal. But now thatI've realized, I use my phone more
as a camera, especially when we'retraveling, especially when we're with family.
There's been so many situations where it'sbeen so nice to reach into my pocket

(01:12:47):
hold down the action button as I'mpulling it out of my pocket, so
that by the time I'm here,camera's already open and ready to go.
That's happened so much for me thatI'm like, dang, that might be
my favorite feature of the Pro.It's just having that action button right there.
It's so helpful. And of course, while I've said that this is

(01:13:09):
not the reason I got the fifteenPro, but I do really appreciate the
promotion display. It is a gorgeousdisplay. It's the smallest USBC iPhone in
existence. I know that regular iPhonefifteen is great, Randy, I know
you're listening, so shout out tothe regular iPhone fifteen. I thoroughly enjoyed
that phone. When I had it, I was very much on the fence,

(01:13:31):
as we can attest, when Iwas reviewing the fifteen Pro, I
was very much torn between those twophones, because they were both fantastic.
The regular iPhone fifteen was just awonderful phone. I love that it got
the frosted glass, it got thebrighter display. I still prefer the aluminum
over the titanium. It was verylightweight. I love the simplicity of it,

(01:13:53):
and honestly, if the regular iPhonefifteen had an action button, that
probably would have won me over.But I tried the fifteen Pro because I
said i'd eventually review it. Itwas a very close call, but simply
because it was at a busy timein my life. I only really picked
up the fifteen Pro because I wasdriving a family member to the airport and
we had to go right past theApple store and I was like, you

(01:14:15):
know what, I have to reviewthis phone. Anyway, I promised everyone
I would review it, so Ialready had it. I was torn on
whether or not I should bring itback and go back to the iPhone fifteen
because I did really love it,but just to save a trip, and
because I asked thought should I keepit? Most people were like, yeah,
just keep it. It's got thefaster chip and you got the faster

(01:14:36):
type seed port or whatever. Itwas a very close call, but I
want the smallest iPhone possible with typeC basically, and that's the fifteen Pro
essentially. It's a fantastic phone.I really miss iOS every time I switched
to an Android phone, even thoughthere's a lot of great Android phones out

(01:14:56):
there. I loved, I lovedthe Pixel eight. The hardware was amazing.
Software though, eh, not asfluid, not as smooth the third
party app stores sorry, the thirdparty apps are not as well optimized as
they are on the iPhone, andthere's just so many advantages to having that
app market on iOS. And ofcourse I use a Mac, so there's

(01:15:19):
a bunch of native advantages to havingan iPhone and a Mac working together.
I've pitched before that I think Googlecould make a really competitive MacBook alternative.
They own YouTube, so I'm surprisedthey don't dive more into the video editing
pro video editing app market, whereyou could build in YouTube features directly into

(01:15:39):
the video editor. I think Googlecould make a really compelling pixel book if
they really tried. But that's theproblem, right, Google never tries.
I hated pixel phones when pixel phonesucked, but that's the thing. Pixel
phones don't suck anymore. I wishthey made a sixteen Mini, but it
doesn't sound like it's happening. Randysays, the button is pretty legit.

(01:16:00):
To be honest, I understand It'sIt's interesting how you can read about something
for a long time and then onceyou actually use it, your perspective can
change. That's that happened for mewith Apple Vision Pro. I thought I
understood it by reading about it andhearing about it, and then I used
it. In my perspective on itchanged quite a bit. Both the isolationism

(01:16:20):
of it. I was like,this actually is isolating and I didn't think
it would be. Or the externalbattery. I didn't think that was a
big deal until I tried it,and then I realized, actually, this
is really annoying. I didn't thinkit was that large or it would be
that hard to transport until you ownit and start traveling with it, and
then you start realizing this thing's kindof bulky. This thing kind of takes

(01:16:42):
up a lot of space. It'skind of girthy on like a MacBook or
an iPhone. It's like you can'tpack it in a bag as easily as
you can any other Apple product before. So yeah, it's it's interesting how
we can we can think through alot of features, and then once you
actually try it, it's like,oh, this isn't as great as I

(01:17:03):
thought, or this is way moreuseful than I thought. Telephoto lens I
don't care about. I could totallylive without the telephoto. That's one thing
I don't like about my fifteen pros, the camera bump design. Even since
the eleven Pro series, I wasnever a fan of the three arrangement,
the stove top camera bump. Italways wobbled so much, and I always

(01:17:24):
thought it looked kind of stupid.I'm glad the regular iPhone sixteen's are going
back finally to the iPhone ten design, where it's just two cameras up and
down. I don't care about thespatial video. I don't think that's as
immersive as Apple made it out tobe. I tried recording a bunch of
spatial videos and rewatching them, andI was like, Eh, it only

(01:17:44):
works in very specific filming environments.It's like the vision Pro complains if there's
too much motion. A lot ofmy spatial videos. I would open up
and it would say there's significant motionin this spatial video and it may cause
motion sickness. It's like, great, I want to see that every time
I watch a video, So itonly works if your phone barely moves,
doesn't have that much motion, andsubjects happened to be around three to six

(01:18:09):
feet away from the camera. Ifyou're just filming a landscape, you don't
capture that much depth. And spatialvideos are all ten ADP thirty frames a
second, which is not a veryimmersive. It only takes up this much
space of the vision Pro headset whenyou're watching it. If I had the
headset on, it's only about thismuch. And I found if I recorded

(01:18:30):
an ultra wide four K at sixtyvideo that looked more immersive because when I
would watch that in VISIONOS, itwould take up this much space. And
even though there isn't depth, thehigher frame rate in the higher resolution made
it feel more lifelike to me.So I didn't find the spatial video thing
to be good. But as faras camera bump design, the upcoming iPhone
sixteen, I mean, I don'tthink I need to upgrade from my fifteen

(01:18:55):
Pro because it basically does everything thesame as the fifteen Pro minus something.
It'll probably have the same chip,probably a worse version of the A seventeen
chip, and it already has theaction button, but I really like the
idea of the iPhone sixteen essentially actionbutton with aluminium, the frosted glass,
the slimmer camera bump. Sixty Hurtzis fine. I'm fine with that,

(01:19:19):
and it's Type C, so everythingabout it is sounds great like I would
have bought. I would have boughtan iPhone sixteen if it were available at
the same time as the fifteen.Apparently this basial videos come out better when
recorded from the Vision Pro. I'vetried both. I recorded spatial videos from
the Vision Pro and I still didn'tPersonally, I didn't think they came out

(01:19:40):
much better. The depth effect kindof works, but it's not that the
resolution is so low and the framerate is so low that it's not that
lifelike to me. Isn't the basemodel fifteen thinner? I would go for
thinner one since the height and widthis so close. It's pro thinner from

(01:20:00):
the camera bump, but I don'tthink it's thinner from the chassis. It
is lighter, I do remember that, but total height wise, it's shorter
than the regular fifteen. That isone detail that I usually think doesn't get
appreciated enough. The fifteen Pro doeshave very slim side bezels, and it's
quite noticeable to me. Most ofthe time people don't talk about that,

(01:20:23):
but to me, it's more noticeablethan things like the notch or the dynamic
island or whatever. Is like justhow thin the side border is. And
when I use a regular iPhone fifteennow I can notice it. I'm like,
ah, yeah, that borders alittle thicker, so you fit a
fairly large display. I still thinkmy fifteen Pro has a pretty huge screen
despite it being the shortest iPhone inthe fifteen lineup. With the rumors of

(01:20:48):
a new captured button coming to thesixteens, I know you probably won't upgrade
to it, but do you thinkit will be a sixteen will be the
sixteen lines distinguishing new feature or willthere be a bigger display slash camera?
Are you asking about the sixteen prosbecause the capture button is just rumored to
come to the pros, not theregulars. I think the sixteen pros will

(01:21:10):
be We're almost We're very confident thesixteen pros will be bigger, so that
will be very noticeable. Sixteen Proin proacts both getting bigger by about point
two inches, so larger screens,probably still with ultra thin bezel all the
way around. And then yeah,the capture button is supposed to be capacitive,

(01:21:31):
so it's not a physical click,but there's like tactic feedback as you
push down a little bit and thenpush hard all the way down. Those
rumors sound believable to me. Thatsounds like something Apple would do, and
I could see there being a veryclever software way to showcase that, Okay,
you want to focus on your subjectand now you want to take the
picture, and then even swiping backand forth on it to zoom in and

(01:21:51):
out. That sounds Apple esque tome. But sorry, people are texted
me if you had a camera button, what would you map the action button
too? Oh that's a good question, U. Probably I'd probably put it

(01:22:13):
back to the ringer switch. Tobe honest, I really like having a
camera button. I'm not convinced thata capture button would be a big enough
feature for me to want to upgrade, just because it sounds somewhat minor.
But I've agreed, and I've alreadysaid publicly I'm not going to predetermine whether
or not I will keep or returnApple products I review anymore, I need

(01:22:36):
to try them out. As weexperienced, our opinions can change a lot
after actually trying the product and usingit in your daily life. But I
do. When I'm recording videos,I switched my ringer to on because I
want to hear if it stops recordingbecause of that stupid bug. But if

(01:22:57):
they fix that bug, I guessI would just leave my phone on silent
time. Hopefully hopefully they fixed thatbug, and then I wouldn't need to
switch. If it weren't for thatbug, my phone would be on silent
at all times. The only reasonI'm switching between ringer on and ring her
off right now is because of thatstupid recording bug. Bryce Peterson, thank

(01:23:18):
you so much for the super chat. This is their tenth superun live stream.
Been watching ever since twenty seventeen.Much love, Thank you very much
for your generosity. You guys aretoo kind. Where do we go from
here? More phones headsets aren't catchingon. Maybe once this tech is in
glasses, we can talk. Idon't think it's that simple. I think
all of those same arguments were thesame people saying the Apple Watch will go

(01:23:41):
mainstream when it's below two hundred dollars, and it was like and it went
mainstream before that, and now mostpeople are buying an eight hundred dollars watches.
They found a way to justify theexpense with the features. They didn't
find a way to cut the priceby ten x. I think that's our
catching on. Personally, I thinkApple entering the field validates it a lot

(01:24:03):
more than before, and sales areup. I believe they're on the increase,
and I was wrong about that.I used to think that VR was
a fad. Now I'm starting tothink, especially when Apple gets involved with
it, it probably has a longerterm. Now it's not going to catch
on in the first two weeks.I think you're expecting a bit much.
If you were just reviewing the iPodand iPhone and iPad based on how bad

(01:24:28):
the apps support was or how badthe sales were within the first two weeks
of them launching, you would saythey're all dead on arrival. You got
to give these things time. Youknow, the next big thing doesn't just
hit the market and become a mainstreamsuccess within two weeks. Apple adding a
button doesn't sound Apple like to me. They've been removing hardware io for decades,

(01:24:49):
not necessarily. They've been going backon that too for a while,
like they got rid of the touchbar in favor of full size function keys.
iPad originally launched mostly with a verrtual keyboard, but over time they
started selling more and more physical keyboardaccessories for the iPad so that you could
have physical tactile feedback. And then, yeah, the ringer switch was not

(01:25:11):
a button, but they turned itinto one. There's been Apple Watch Ultra.
There's another example of them adding abutton to something that originally just had
two buttons, the digital crown andthe side button, and then they decided
they wanted another one, so theygave it to action button. I don't
think it's that crazy, because weknow that they've been experimenting around with solid

(01:25:31):
state buttons for a while, andthey're probably trying to figure out what the
best way to implement a solid statebutton is. They probably realized just making
all the button solid state is abad idea in case their software crashes and
cases get confused. But with acapture button, there's some advantages to it
being dynamic, to where you pushit down some of the way and it
focuses and then you push it downall the way, kind of like how

(01:25:55):
you have a force click on aMacBook track pad. You can click a
little bit and then you can clickhard. Kind of that three D touch
functionality to it. I wear glasses, so I prefer it in glasses for
them, but I get the techlimitations for that at least now. I
don't think it has to get toglasses for it to go mainstream. I
think there is a way to makeit slimmer, lighter, more affordable,

(01:26:17):
and still technically be goggles. Youcan see people wearing these two clubs dates,
church like a regular outfi accessory.If not, then what is the
mainstream vision? No, but doyou see people using iPads in clubs,
dates in church like a regular outfitaccessory. Does that mean an iPad is
a failure because people don't take itto the club. It's about finding what

(01:26:40):
the form factor is good at.You know, there's still a lot of
people that buy iPads, or buyNintendo switches, or people that buy TVs.
But goggles are carving out a newsegment, a new set of features.
It doesn't have to replace the phonefor it to be mainstream. I
think that's a big misconception a lotof people have. I don't believe it

(01:27:02):
will replace the smartphone, But Ialso think the smartphone is going to become
more of a camera than it isa phone. The goggles might take over
more of the media consumption and socialmedia browsing, and the phone becomes more
of your designated camera device, whichit kind of already is a lot of.
Every year we get a new phone, half of the announcements about the
phone or about the camera, everyoneis saying, it'll replace the phone.

(01:27:25):
No, I don't. I thinkyou got to. If you want to
see where there's potential for something,you have to look between the lines.
Not everything is so black and white. It's like saying, well, if
you're only expecting big things to replacethe phone, then yeah, you're never
going to be impressed because phones are, in my opinion, kind of irreplaceable.

(01:27:46):
But that doesn't mean it can't bedisruptive. You can have very disruptive
technology the same way the iPhone didn'treplace the mac. So is the iPhone
not disruptive? Because I thought inorder for the iPhone to be a big
deal, it had to kill offall of our max people still buy Max.
Apple still makes Max Max have beenaround for decades now, and they're

(01:28:06):
still useful and they're still practical.In the same way, a pair of
Apple goggles might not replace the iPhone, but it can still be just as
disruptive, maybe even more so,without replacing anything. Yeah, it's a
straw man argument to say that it'snot going to replace the phone. In
my opinion, that's a really weakargument because the phone is incredibly difficult to

(01:28:29):
replace. But there's a middle groundbetween failing and revolutionizing the industry that too,
But again, it's an ongoing battle. It's not like the if they
cancel it in the future and justsay, okay, no more headsets,
then we'll call it. It didn'treally work out. But I think there's
a lot of room for improvement,and there's a lot of refinement and iteration

(01:28:51):
that's going to happen before that stageis reached. And there's been all kinds
of products that Apple's introduced over theyears that people have said, oh,
this isn't going anyway where, thisis gonna die, this is gonna flop,
and then it turns into the nexthuge thing. AirPods being another great
example. Did AirPods replace the phone. No, are they still big enough

(01:29:12):
in their own category to be includedin the S and P five hundred?
Yes? Do you still see themeverywhere? Yes? It can still be
quite disruptive in a big thing.But yeah, I mean hasel. You're
saying earlier headsets aren't catching on,But then you're also saying it could replace
TVs and MAX. Those are twovery different. It's like they could still

(01:29:33):
be very disruptive. They could replaceeverything but the phone. Maybe. Do
I think folding phones have more utilitythan VR headsets currently? No, I've
been underwhelmed every time I've tried afolding phone. It's pretty much just a
slightly different form factor on a regularphone. It doesn't feel like a tablet
to me, and tablets aren't evenas popular as they used to be.

(01:30:00):
So the phone just being able tofold in half or I don't think that
really unlocks that much functionality. Itdoesn't really give you that much more screen
space, So I'm glad Apple didn'treally pursue that. If anything, more
powerful chips and miniaturization could make it. Some more powerful watches make some phone

(01:30:20):
features redundant. I think the watchhas more form factor issues than processing limitations.
I think it's more of a youcan't type as well on a screen
that smaller, you can't take picturesand videos as you can. Again,
I feel like every year the phonebecomes more and more camera like. You

(01:30:40):
know. That was a big reasonI think smartphones took off is because the
cameras on them got so good thatyou didn't need a digital camera anymore.
That used to be a big industry. People would carry around carry around camquarders,
or they'd carry around point and shootdigital cameras so they could capture moments.
That's a pretty big market of peoplethat want to take pictures or or
take selfies and capture their surroundings.And phone cameras just got so good that

(01:31:03):
you basically killed off the point andshoot market to where very few people see
a point in buying a designated cameraanymore. Even me making YouTube videos.
It's like, yeah, you knowwhat, the phone's good enough, and
I don't see the watch eating intothat. And people like big screens,
those big screen pro maxes and pluseskeep taking off, and that's another fundamental

(01:31:28):
limitation with the watch that would bekind of a hard thing to overcome.
Even then, content consumption is tooimportant for watches to replace phones. Yeah,
but I could visualize a situation wherethe goggles replace the watch with enough
iteration, if it gets if itgets to the point where maybe it's not
glasses, but I could still seetransparent displays. They're like they're ski goggles

(01:31:51):
that you can see through. Butjust understanding this gesture when you're wearing the
goggles. Every time you make thisgesture, you have the time pop up,
or you have notifications pop up.You can kind of just paste watch
os right on your wrist there viahologram. I believe the video on iPhone
is professional quality, but the photosare still not there yet. I was

(01:32:12):
going to argue the opposite, actually, but I think it's safe to say
both have gotten incredibly good. It'sdefinitely doing a lot of emulation where portrait
mode, I don't know. Someof the pictures I took with portrait mode
on my iPhone just blew me away. I was like, that looks like
a film camera. That looks amazing, but it's faking things. It's adding
boca that's not really there. Right, So of course it's never going to

(01:32:36):
be perfectly emulating a DSLR. Butit gets close enough to fool people that
I don't feel the need personally tocarry around a DSLR anymore. I have
several photographer friends that used to carryaround DSLRs everywhere they went that now just
carry around their iPhone. I usedto do videos for weddings, so I

(01:32:57):
had a lot of professional photographer friendswhere it's literally their full time job just
to take pictures. And even themhave upgraded to either fourteen pros or fifteen
pros lately, and they're like,oh, yeah, this is good enough
for my travel. It's usually notwhat they use on the job site,
but for their casual, you know, trip to Disneyland or something. iPhones

(01:33:17):
are plenty and much easier to pack. Did you experience any mint mobile outages
over the weekend. I couldn't makeany outgoing calls on Friday morning, had
to turn on Wi Fi calling.Yeah, there has been, but I'm
not sure if it's Mint's fault orT Mobile's fault, because I've had issues
with T mobile home internet and sometimeswhen the home internet goes out, I'll

(01:33:38):
notice Mint Mobile slows down or goesout or something. Photos are too processed
when video isn't. I would arguethere's still a lot of post processing going
on on videos, but to me, a video recorded on a smartphone is
much more noticeable than a photo taken. I think it's pretty easy to fool
people when you take portrait mode shotson a iPhone, especially on the kind

(01:34:01):
of zoomed in perspectives like three Xor five X. There's a lot of
portrait mode photos people have taken andyou can compare it with a DSLR and
people will have a hard time tellingthe difference. Video, though, it's
a bit more noticeable to me,Like when I switch from the Black Magic
to the iPhone. Both are good, but one definitely has an iPhone video.
Everything kind of tends to be infocus, unless it's really close to

(01:34:24):
the camera. There's a bit morenoise. Apparently the Series nine has the
setting to temporarily switch off the doubletap when you use Vision Pro. Yeah,
I saw that. That makes sense. The goggles and AirPods Pro will
replace the watch will include most ofthe health features the watch does. Yeah.
Actually, I was going to say, and there's future versions of the
goggles that have more health sensors.This is a better place to measure a

(01:34:49):
lot of health data than your wrist, could be heart rate monitoring, could
be temperature checking, could be bloodoxygen level checking, all that stuff.
It's probably more accurate to get ithere than it is down here, so
it might even be better health datato have up here. The thing is,
people want it to replace the phone, but why it's a phone GPS?

(01:35:10):
I don't think that many people do, to be honest, Why doesn't
society appreciate the convenience of a phone. Well, we're all tech people,
so we're all excited for the nextbig thing. And the iPhone killed so
many things at once. It replacesyour wallet, replaces your camera, replaces
your smartphone, you know, theiphe replaces your iPod. It's no it
replaces your music player. So theiPhone is kind of the big thing right

(01:35:33):
now, and that replace so manyother things. So we still have that
replacement mindset of Okay, big thingsreplace other tech products, right so we're
expecting the next big thing. ButI just think the smartphone is too affordable
to practical, very easy to market. But I think it's important to acknowledge

(01:35:54):
that there can still be a verysuccessful product that does not replace the smartphone,
like AirPods or like the Mac orlike the Apple Watch. Apple watch
didn't replace the phone, still avery successful, widespread, very highly adopted
product. I see them everywhere.You see Apple watches all the time.
Didn't replace the phone, but itwas still a big deal. There's even

(01:36:17):
been a lot of Apple patents onAirPods with health features, so they could
even offload that so that instead ofwearing an Apple Watch, and now you
just wear goggles and you can domore health tracking from your headphones. But
no, I don't think folding phoneshave more utility than VR headsets. I

(01:36:38):
just think folding phones are kind ofcool, nifty tech, but not that
different from our normal phones. ButI guess VR is kind of in a
toyish state right now. It's hardto justify it as a tool. But
yeah, with time, I thinkthat'll change. Anyway, I've got some

(01:36:58):
people waiting on me, so Ithink i'll wrap it up here. But
I appreciate your guys's questions. It'sa very fun topic for me. I
love speculating on this. But yeah, that was kind of the title I
was alluding to with this livestream.Where do we go from here? Because
the goggles make us really question everythingin the ecosystem and what the future of
tech products is going to be,like this whole spatial computing thing, and

(01:37:20):
it's very hard to go from thatto then talking about Okay, so the
iPad might get an OLED display.That's kind of cool, right, It's
like, I don't know, itfeels weird, So I encourage the questions.
Even though I don't have Vision Proanymore, I still love talking about
it. I still love dissecting itbecause it has flaws, because it's not

(01:37:41):
perfect. That's what makes it sointeresting. Because everything else in the Apple
space there's not much room for improvement. With Vision Pro, there's so much
room for improvement, and the improvementcould drastically change the way we use all
of our tech, both software andhardware. So don't expect it to replace
the phone, but still could bea huge It could transform the phone in

(01:38:02):
a lot of ways that we useour max differently now because of our phones.
And I appreciate you all for watchingand hanging in there. So hope
you have an excellent rest of yourday and I'll see you all again very
soon. Bye bye,