The Autopsy of The Acolyte (Season 7 Episode 31)

In this episode of Tatooine Sons: A Pop Culture Podcast, we look into the recent cancellation of “The Acolyte” and explore what lessons can be learned for the future of Star Wars. 

Although “The Acolyte” may not have been a fan favorite, its cancellation is still a loss for the galaxy far, far away. We break down the potential reasons behind its struggles and discuss whether Star Wars is losing its blockbuster appeal. 

In addition, we share what we’re most excited about in pop culture, including the latest updates on “The Rings of Power” Season 2 and “Alien: Romulus”. Plus, we chat about the latest comic book releases hitting stores this week, from “Detective Comics” to “Aliens Vs. Avengers”. Join us as we explore the intersection of pop culture, mythology, and fandom in a conversation that’s both insightful and fun.

Subscribe now on Substack for weekly updates, in-depth exploration, and a vibrant community of fellow pop culture enthusiasts. Don't miss out—let’s get started!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Tattooing Sons, a pop culture podcast, the only
fan podcast to name mcannon, Star Wars creature and to
be endorsed by the writer and the director of The
Last Jedi, Ryan Johnson.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Gentlemen, Yes, the Acolyte is no more.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:16):
I mean as much as I wasn't a big fan
of the series of the show, it is still sad
and disappointing to see this happened to Star Wars.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yeah. It's never a good thing when Star Wars isn't working.

Speaker 5 (00:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
It feels like the Willow all over again. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
And the fact that this series didn't have the success
expected and isn't being renewed isn't a reason for anyone
to celebrate. I think it'll be good to step back
and see if there are any lessons to be learned
for the future of Star Wars. We'll do that today
and more. This is Tattooine Sons.

Speaker 5 (00:53):
Was the name of the pork and the Millennium falcon Force,
the storm in my family. What do you think his
name is? It's a big moment.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
I am a Jedi like my father before me.

Speaker 5 (01:15):
Maybe turbis.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Do oh do not? There is no try.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
Turbis, Pablo, if you're listening to this live stream, that
pork's name is now Turbis.

Speaker 5 (01:34):
It's a good Star Wars name. We're not done yet.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
These guys recorded classing podcasts after so everybody listen.

Speaker 5 (01:49):
You can't say Guardians.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
I was just about to say Guardian before you finish.
What's the thing you're most looking.

Speaker 5 (01:55):
Forward to doing? Honest, I'm excited to try the new
Splash Mountain.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
That's crazy, really, I mean that wasn't even on my life.
It's a new d I mean, I'm excited for you. Well,
Epcot's my place, love FCOT. I'm excited to actually try
and watch the Firerics Show, the new one. Yeah, I'm
excited for that because I love that. I love just
being an FCOT, So the longer we can be there,

(02:23):
it's fine on me.

Speaker 5 (02:24):
And the Disney Springs Drone Show.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
I try to that. Yeah, we're gonna we're going to
find time to get to that.

Speaker 5 (02:31):
In the evening shows.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
If we need to do when we get in on Thursday,
well that we get in at nine something, but we
kind is crazy and we may have to drive to
Port Saint Lucy to pick up Moham.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
I just found out.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Anyway, Welcome to Datween Sounds About Cultry Podcast. We believe
that pop culture is the mythology of this generation, that
there is a story, it is written on our souls,
and that these myths speak to that story. And that
is why we are going to have one final discussion
about the probably feel like the rest of time might be.
Only this time we're going to be looking at how

(03:06):
this situation can be avoided in the future.

Speaker 4 (03:13):
So we're going to do that well, and we just
want to thank you for listening to thank your cast.
We wouldn't we wouldn't be here if it weren't for you,
faithful listeners. We are going to ask you, though, to
subscribe on substack.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Sub a suburb, a suburb, a stacker, a sub mariner.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, isn't he a superhero?

Speaker 4 (03:35):
Yes, that's all that's name more n name more the submarner.
So see a villain's an anti hero? Anyway, join us
on substack. Please subscribe. It's free, and once we hit
our goal of one hundred sub mariners not I'm coining it,
We're gonna go with that. Once we reach that goal,

(03:55):
uh Dad is going to make it podcast series on
the mythology, right, the Christian myth of the Bible. It's
it's it's much more interesting. The Christian story is much
more interesting.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
It's like all these boats perfectly aligned in the dock,
like you know, all these like yachts and boats and
stuff like, it was all beautiful, and then it was
like me coming to Bible study. And then the next
one was like after a hurricane hit that same dock
and all of the boats were like a jiangled mess
of each other. And he's like me, after I bring
up Nephelie about this Bible study after right, definitely, yeah,

(04:34):
but yeah, we're also going to be talking about the
comics releasing and store tomorrow along with that some of
us have been reading. We're going to figure it out. Absolutely,
But enough talking about what we're going to talk about.
Let's talk about what we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Your gods, the hawks, and the deep places of the world.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
All right, then keep your secrets.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
Comment He says, stem size, stem size, and I'm any
magic ring. So this will go beggings and not the US.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
Jumping this episode with some things that we're just excited about.
I think if you want to talk about Nate, yes, I.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Want you like as opposed to the other segments where
we don't really want to.

Speaker 5 (05:35):
Talk about that stuff.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
Yeah no, we hate you, Yeah no, I'm just you know,
it's a general miscellaneous where.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
We just basically vaunted out whatever.

Speaker 4 (05:44):
Works right right exactly, And this week we're excited about
a couple of things. First up, Alien Romulus. All right,
let's do our ar typical letterbox rating one to five
stars with halves like or no, like I want.

Speaker 5 (06:00):
Dad to go? Why do you?

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Why do you want me to go?

Speaker 4 (06:02):
Because you're gonna be the wet blanket on the discussion.
You're not gonna be a wet blank blank on the discussion.
So we're gonna get it out of the way.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
What are you gonna give it?

Speaker 1 (06:11):
People are thinking here that I'm like one of those
crazy people that are freaking out about the Alien Romulus,
like against it, like negative toxic you are.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
I don't care about the Alien franchise. I mean, I
watched it. It was a very well done movie. I
stayed awake for the entire thing.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Did you enjoy your time? It made sense?

Speaker 5 (06:33):
It was one of the movies.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
It was, it was fine, it was it was it
was the movie that I went to that day, so
it was it rating. I'll give it a three, okay,
like or no like?

Speaker 2 (06:47):
I mean, if you're gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
From like a perspective of would I ever watched this
movie again, like by choice, go out of my way
to go do it? That being a like, I'd probably
have to say not like, just because that's not my thing.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
That's me some movies that I like that I wouldn't
watch again. Yeah, huh so I put alike, it's.

Speaker 5 (07:09):
It's just not your thing.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
If I never saw that movie, my life would not
be any different than if I saw that fair So
all right, Nate, Okay, well I got four point five,
and I like, I really like this movie. I am
a friend of the Alien franchise.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
I enjoy most of the movies most most because like
every other movie is really good and it's crazy because
I actually like figured that out Prometheus. I really really
liked great movie Covenant. Covenant wasn't bad. It wouldn't great,
but it wasn't great. It was just a fine alien movie.

(07:43):
Alien of course, fantastic, greatest of the series. I don't
think you can top that just it did great Aliens. No,
I know, that's super controversial and people think it's one
of the greatest movies of all time. It didn't do
it for me. The dialogue kind of it was really bad.

(08:03):
Aliens was not the move Ani and three. That's a yes.
I enjoyed Alien. I enjoyed it in the minority. I
know I'm in the minority. A lot of people think
it's the worst one. I thought it had a weird,
fun tone and it was setting up some great stuff,
and the ending was good, and the resurrection was just
god awful garbage. That was a miserable time watching the movie.

(08:26):
And then Romulus, I really really, really enjoyed it. Did
some great stuff in the movie. Before the final thirty
minutes it was fantastic. You have the zero gravity acid
blood scene, which was that was in the trailer. Trailer
that was cool, and then the ending thirty minutes was

(08:47):
just wild, mental like absolutely crazy. Yes, this movie followed
practically the same story beats as Alien, But when you're
coming to legacy sequels and you're just updating it and
bringing it for a new audience and being able to
increase it with technology and everything that we have nowadays,
they did a fantastic job. I liked all of the characters,

(09:08):
probably the most likable characters in the entire series. Like
I did like Andy, Yeah, lot, I loved Andy, I
loved Rain. I thought both of their dynamic was really good.
I don't know, I thought it was just a really
great movie. It was good.

Speaker 5 (09:22):
Yeah, I thought it was fun. But that's it. I'd
give it a four. I think four and a like.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
It was a really like you said, it was a
really really well done movie. The effects were phenomenal. All
the practical effects really shone through in that movie. It
was some phenomenal performances by the actors. Yeah, I mean,
it was just a very well executed alien movie. If
you're not into alien movies, it's not going to be

(09:51):
your cup of tea, and that's fine. But I think
for what it was going for, it was awesome. And
then yeah, that last you know, fifteen twenty minutes or
whatever was just mental.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
So I do think that this was to the Alien
franchise what The Force Awakens was.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
It starts, absolutely, especially with how much a lot of
money it's making.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Beats and story ideas and that type of thing, but
done for a new generation to enter into the franchise,
which is great and if I like these kinds of movies,
I would have been thrilled with this movie.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
But it's just not my thing, so.

Speaker 5 (10:26):
Right, all right.

Speaker 4 (10:29):
Next up, something that we're all very excited for coming
up is Rings of Power season two, and we are
on the precipice, the precipice, and we're sadly not gonna
be able to watch it when it comes out, because
we're gonna be in Whose.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
Big idea was it for us to go to Disney
World on the weekend that Rings the Power?

Speaker 2 (10:50):
I was fully prepared.

Speaker 5 (10:51):
To just pull it up on a laptop and watch it.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
No, you cannot discovere it's like watching am I do
a TV?

Speaker 5 (10:59):
We're not.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
We're not gonna make mom sit there. Also, I want
to watch it on my TV with my cool backlights
and loving that backlight thing is so nice. But I
think it was your idea, Dad, I think it was
my idea. No, I was Mom's idea. But we're definitely
gonna have to find a time before Sam and I
leave a day earlier.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Now it's just a few hours earlier, honestly, more like
like twelve twelve hours early.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
You're confusing everybody. They have no idea what we're talking
about Sam and I are going to Hans Zimmer Live.
I guess that's Georgia. We're excited about. Into Louse, Georgia.
It's opening performance the North American Tour September six, six,
so we're heading to that. But we'll have to find
times from the time we get back on the Stone
on the second, which is a Monday. A Monday, so

(11:47):
we get back Labor Day. We could watch it that night.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
We don't get back early enough. I don't think what
time do we get back. I don't think we get
home till like eight o'clock.

Speaker 5 (11:55):
Oh yeah, that's fine.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Well, then we can watch it Tuesday if I don't
have a stupid zoom class from my online college class.
Welcome to having responsibility.

Speaker 5 (12:06):
We'll figure it out.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
That's important enough for me to skip that class for sure.
I'll watch a little bit about of Paradigm.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
Yeah, I mean from the trailers, which I still don't
think I've watched the latest one. It was good, you know,
it's it seems to be giving taking on a very
much darker tone than season one. Would you all kind
of agree are even going through season one rewatching it?
You have seen the trailers what are your thoughts on that.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, I definitely think it's taking on a darker tone,
more the tone we saw in Dune. I think that's
the episode where everything kind of went to crap in
the first season. Definitely taking on that kind of vibe,
especially after listening to the score for season two, at
least what we've been given as of now. What we

(12:54):
were given at the beginning of before season one was like, Oh,
this is really good. I love this, and then we
were given updated versions of the scores with all the spoilery,
really spoilery tracks afterwards. But from what I've heard so
far of the season two score, which is the entire
album that it's been released, it does seem to be

(13:16):
much darker. I mean that where the shadows lie theme
is insanely prevalent in almost all of the tracks that
have something to do with the Rings or something, So.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
I think it's going to have to stay that way
throughout most of the middle seasons of this. The opening
of the of the series itself is a very other
than what's going on with Galadriel, where she's convinced sar
On is still around and going to come and try
to destroy everything.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
She's the only one that's convinced of that.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
And when you get to the elf world and all
of this, they're just sort of like, everything is great,
Everything is awesome. It's going to be a lighter tone
through that. And then you get to the Minds with Duran,
and they're having the same type of experience. Right They're
in a time of prosperity. It's a wonderful thing. Everything

(14:12):
is good. Meanwhile, behind the scenes we see other things
that are happening with this. When you get to the
end of season one, things have gone very very badly
for everybody involved. And obviously Sarron has been exposed again
as being hallibrand spoiler alert if you haven't watched this.
If you haven't watched it, go watch it.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Great show it is. Don't listen to anybody else.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
That's absolutely But I think the series is going to
be the middle episodes, the middle seasons are going to
be and through the end of the series is going
to be darker. I think you'll have some type of
positive resolution at the end of the series whenever they
close it out, but you'll still have some darkness there
because we know what's going on with the Ring. But
I think my biggest question going into season two. And

(14:56):
I thought this when I first saw the original trailer,
and then there's I guess more stuff has come out
about it, but it's where's Bronwin.

Speaker 4 (15:05):
Yeah, I think we had we'd known that this was coming.
The actress for Bronwen, I'm gonna try to pronounce his
name non Zanin.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah. I think she's she's Iranian.

Speaker 5 (15:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (15:21):
She had a quote she said that I stepped away
from acting in September of twenty twenty two to focus
solely on the hashtag women Life, Freedom Uprising, and I
ran and to advocate for the people of my homeland
who've been risking everything for freedom. Despite my passion for acting,
I knew it would take a very special project to
convince me to once again split my time between my

(15:43):
day job and my calling as an activist.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
That's yeah, I had not heard that.

Speaker 4 (15:49):
I had heard that she stepped away from acting, but
I didn't know what was going on with it, like
why and everything?

Speaker 1 (15:56):
Fighting for equality and freedom in her home country, which
is in the extremely dictat it's a dictatorship, it's a terrorist,
terrorist regime with it For her to to walk away
from an unbelievably successful position with this, and I guess
my understanding and I hadn't thought about this, but I
heard that you don't see her or what's the other

(16:20):
the other Theo's or son around deer An. You don't
see them in at all in the finale of season one.
They're not press you don't.

Speaker 5 (16:32):
Oh yeah, it's a good point.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
And there result I was at that point she had
I think that they were already when talking, people were
already talking about she had stepped away from acting for this,
and so you know, hey, understanding priorities. I love that,
right if you you know something has got to be
bigger than your career and your acting and having a
purpose and following that purpose is great.

Speaker 4 (16:55):
Well, what do you think that means for like you
mentioned arounder and THEO, because they're heavily tied to to
Bronwin in the story.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, I mean we we know Rondias in this season.
I haven't heard about THEO yet or not. I'm sure
he is. I think he's He's kind of been slightly
important in that first season, so I'm sure we'll see
some aspects to it. Wouldn't be surprised if they kill
off broun Win due to her being an original character

(17:24):
that it might have to be an off screening or
they can pull off some tricks with it being not
showing her phase or something like that. Some things that
go on. I know that some type of track is
about forgiveness and the Rondiers theme plays when bron Win
and Rondias theme plays a lot in that track, so

(17:45):
maybe there's something to do with that. I don't know.
It's gonna be a bit interesting to see how it
all works out.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
But and I'm trying to figure out how THEO fits
into this in the first place, because he picks up
the what is the sword that.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
He has, don't know it's called it's it's some dark
magic thing.

Speaker 5 (18:03):
Yeah, I don't know with that.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
I mean he's obviously there's something to his character with it.
I think he's going to have a big role in
what happens in in season two and beyond with with
what's happening in the Southlands with this, and so obviously
our unders is he features heavily in the in the
trailers with this, so we're gonna we're gonna see something

(18:24):
very interesting happen with it.

Speaker 5 (18:26):
I agree. What are you most looking forward to in
in season two.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
A man, what a great character. Also, you love him.
He's a great character. He was great in season one.
Just such a fun character. And it seems like he's
going to be fighting a lot. Apparently he's like the
leader of a giant battle like Helms Deep level battle
in the season. The Battle for Oregon, I think is

(18:51):
what it's going to be. I think it's the Orcs
are attacking the forges, pretty much what we can assume
what we know as Yeah, yeah, yeah, So he's he's
looking like he's gonna be cool fighting a lot of works.
It's gonna be gonna be a ton of fun. Suret
Gladiol will show up alongside him, which would be awesome.
It cool see the two of them fighting with each other,

(19:14):
would be great.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
So I think the season is gonna I think we
it's well established the season is going to focus in
on the Dwarfs and they're them receiving their rings.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
In this season. But I think I'm curious, Sam, who's
your favorite character in season one? Do you remember it's
been a while since you've watched it.

Speaker 5 (19:32):
I know, yeah, circle back to me on that one.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Okay, I'm you know, I loved everything that happened with
the Stranger and the heartfoots with it and watching it
again the last few days, Nathan and I have been
watching Are you watching it?

Speaker 2 (19:50):
I love Poppy.

Speaker 5 (19:53):
Poppy Okay, no, not Poppy, no nor that's right.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
I get those two confused for some reason their name,
but yeah, definitely Norri. I love Nori because she is
so anti Hobbit in her personality, right, oh yeah. In
the Hobbit, Bilbo doesn't want to go on this journey,
Frodo doesn't want to leave the Shire, Sam wants, they
just want to get back to the Shire, and Norris
the kind that's the exact opposite. She's everything that's good

(20:18):
about the Hobbits, which is why I had such a
concern about the Stranger being a bad guy. I needed
him to be gammed off because that was why that
came out. So that whole storyline, I'm curious to see
what journey they go on and how.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
That plays off with that. Who's your favorite charage you
figured out?

Speaker 4 (20:35):
I'd probably have to say Duran. He's great, He's super fun.
But the whole series is great. There's a lot of
great characters in this series.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
Nathan, you said something while we were rewatching it, and
we'll talk about this, maybe it wouldn't we get daria
Ak like conversation at the end, but at the second
part or the bottom half of this, but.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
You were saying that you were talking about.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
The Eternals, and we were kind of you know with this,
Why do you think that something like a longer form presentation,
giving it more time to play out worked for Rings
of Power and could have worked for something like Eternals,
but worked against and we'll talk about this in the
next but worked against the Acolyte with.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Well some of the episodes being too long. Yeah, when
it comes to what I feel like Eternals should have
been a Disney Plus TV series specifically because they introduced
like fifteen characters almost and none of them felt like
they really got their worth. A couple of them felt
like they got way more screen time and way more
development than some of the others. Some of the others
were just killed off, just seemed like they were like

(21:41):
not fleshed out. So I didn't care about any majority
of the Eternals I did not care about, and the
Eternals I did care about, I was kind of frustrated.
I cared about then because I wanted to learn more
about everybody else. So I think that it would have
worked better as a Disney Plus TV series because we
see it in Rings of Power as they're allowing all

(22:01):
of these stories to breathe. I mean, each episode is
about our ten minutes.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
So why does that work with the Rings of Power
series eight episodes? Longer episodes? And we felt different from
that as we're talking about the Acolyte later in this episode.
Why did we feel like that one was different? Did
they went what was different about the Acolyte with that?
Because it felt like in the Acolyte, they're trying to
drag it out to get it to meet a TV

(22:29):
series length, a season length, and it didn't seem like
it fit.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
I mean, we had main character wise Osha, May, Soul,
Kimier kind of extent. We had about four four characters,
and it felt like May and Osha got a lot
of screen time, Chimier didn't get nearly enough backstory built

(22:55):
up against it for him. Soul got a lot of stuff,
but felt like he was kind of treated poorly in
that last episode. It's ending was a bit of unceremonious
and and it just felt like it could have been
a movie. We could have wrapped it up quicker, let
us be able to not think about it as much,
I guess in that scenario, so I just trying to
I'm just trying to figure it all out.

Speaker 4 (23:17):
Yeah, well, I think that's probably gonna do it. For
what we're just excited about for this week. I think
next Nate, we got some new comics and uh and
what we're reading to talk about?

Speaker 2 (23:29):
Right? Have you ever danced with the devil in the
Pale moonlight?

Speaker 5 (23:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (23:38):
I can find.

Speaker 5 (23:45):
I'm here to fight for truth and justice in the
American way.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
The people in this room, which one is a wearing
a spankly outfit and be not a few?

Speaker 6 (24:00):
Oh god, man, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't dress
like that. That man has no limits.

Speaker 5 (24:17):
These are something big.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
One. We have Detective Comics Issue one thousand and eighty
eight kind of nearing the end of this current run.
I guess it's got freezone it Yeah, so ending in
the new year, end of this run before DC's all
in kind of begins. Amazing Experienment Issue fifty six also

(24:38):
kind of nearing the end of that run. Ultimate X
Men issue six and X Men Comics series set in
the Ultimate Universe. I've heard it's good. I think I
have the first couple issues, but I didn't get to
follow it, which is is sad Void Rivals issue twelve,
which marks the one year anniversary of the Energon Universe
crazy starting, which is that the one reading just Transformers

(25:02):
Drawn issue what elevenen that, I think, which means we're
getting close to the one year anniversary for that series
as well. And also this one's crazy, but I'm probably
gonna pick it up. Aliens Versus Avengers Issue one sounds crazy,
sounds cool. I know that Alien and Everything is owned
by Marvel and by Disney, so they've been doing a

(25:24):
lot of comic series for them recently, like a what
If series They've been doing for Aliens a lot now,
and so bringing in Aliens Versus Avengers is pretty cool,
but kind of getting into what we're reading currently, Sam,
have you been reading, well, any comics or anything comic
comic related? Are you doing anything?

Speaker 4 (25:45):
I haven't read any like comics lately, but I have
been doing a little bit of reading and preparing for
a Marvel tabletop RPG game that I'm running with some
buddies of mine, where our next session is tomorrow at
the time of recording, I guess today at the time
that you'd be.

Speaker 5 (26:03):
Listening to this.

Speaker 4 (26:05):
And I've been preparing for what our next campaign is
going to be, So I've been reading that it's some
interesting stuff, big Old Kang storyline, multiverse, the works.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
That sounds fun, wild, sounds like it's gonna be crazy.

Speaker 5 (26:16):
It's gonna be a ton of fun.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
That's good. Yeah, And currently I have been reading the
Normal Daredevil and Ultimate Spider Man pretty much my rotation
right now. I've been dabbling into Transformers and ultimates right now.
But Dared Devil issue twelve is I think of the
most recent one, probably the greatest issue of Daredevil I've
ever read, great stuff without I don't know if I

(26:42):
don't know how you can spoil it.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
How can you could say that without spoiling it for
somebody that's gonna end up reading it.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
It's difficult because it is the culmination and beginning of
a new almost era of Daredevil, which is crazy, a
new era for a lot of the characters related to
Daredevil as well. Okay, so help me understand something.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
This is going to tie into what I'm reading, Okay, Okay,
So I'm reading Daredevil as well. I'm kind of like
set aside the Avenger stuff to catch up more on
the chips A Darski run because Nathan Gils in our
last episode so good and you've been enjoying it. I
have absolutely it's very different than reading self contained. Yeah, sure, absolutely,
I'm confused about something. Okay, storyline, I maybe able to help.

Speaker 6 (27:28):
Yeah, Daredevil's blind No Daredevil, everybody knows that Matt Murdoch
was Mayor Okay, right, I'm correct, I guess so.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yes. I did not read that run, so I cannot.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
But what is why is it that there seems to
be this underlying thread throughout the series that these issues
that people that used to know Matt Murdoch was Daredevil
don't anymore. Elektra was the film. I am confused The
Purple Man was in the run before that, apparently because

(28:03):
I did look this up. I was confused as well.
I did look it up beforehand. The Purple Man is
usually a villain for Jessica Jones. He's the main villain
in the TV series for Jessica Jones for my knowledge.

Speaker 5 (28:16):
And he played by the doctor who guys.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
He is played by the darts guy, but he has
psychological powers, if I know, telekinetic powers, and towards the
end of the run before Chips at dartsk Game, I'm
pretty sure he makes everybody forget that Matt Murdoch was Daredevil.
So Spider Man basically, Yeah, it feels very similar to
the end of Noway Home.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Very similar. It's pretty much the same thing. Not that
for the same reason, not that Matt Murdock doesn't exist,
but that Matt Murdoch isn't Daredevil. I don't know why
he made him forget that or why. I don't know
how we got to that point. It's been a long
time since I've researched that, but that's pretty much. I
would have been a much better spell in no way Home.

(28:56):
Didn't they try to do that? They did, they did.

Speaker 5 (28:58):
They try to make everyone that Peter Parker with Spider Man.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
That created issues.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
That's when all the enemies showed up. This is this
is the main mcguffin. This is the mcguffin of that movie.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Well, it created issues because Peter was just being a
dufus and said things.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Wrong and got the wrong people forgetting this. Yeah, so
that's right, I remember that now.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah, and Matt didn't care who forgot or not, because
Matt sacrifices for the greater good.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
So very I think one of my favorite I don't
think we talked about this one in the last episode.
I don't think i'd read it yet, But one of
my favorite scenes I think I've ever read in a comic.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
Book was in the opening of one of these.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Issues where read Read Richards is playing chess with Matt
Nose Matt's daredevil the right, right, Yeah, and they're having
a discussion about whether or not there can be a god.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
And it's the thing that I loved.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
About it was that Reid is read right, So he
doesn't believe that. He doesn't he's a man of science, right,
but in the course of the conversation willing to concede
that the concept of their being a god, the idea
of their being a god, does not contradict science, that

(30:12):
it's possible, right, it fits right. He doesn't believe it,
but he's open to the idea. He becomes very agnostic
in the way that he describes this, open to the
idea that there could be a creator God. And if
that's the if you believe that that that doesn't make
you unintelligent or you know, anything like that. I thought that,

(30:34):
and it was just a really really well written and
all of these I'm struggling with Fisk a little bit
in the art right now because he's not as powerful,
he's not strong, but that's part of the story. It
is in this you'll find him to be the Fisk,
you know. Towards the end, Well, he does some stuff,
that's all right. I mean you get glimpses of him
being the Fisk. You know, there was some like Daredevil

(30:56):
cardor stuff level stuff going on in a bathroom. Oh yeah,
that's right in this one. But in the end, it's
it's been it's been a fun It's fun to switch
from the Avengers, which was big, you know, multiverse shattering
type stuff, to back to a Daredevil story. That is
it is the only thing that is being impacted as

(31:17):
Hell's kitchen right well.

Speaker 4 (31:19):
And what's funny is that kind of reminds me of
the game that we're going to be running for the
running with the guys is it. It starts off with
you're like barely able to defend a block of a neighborhood,
and then it moves to those multiverse shattering events and stuff.

Speaker 5 (31:38):
So I just think it's cool.

Speaker 4 (31:39):
That Marvel allows for those very different kinds of stories
to be trld.

Speaker 5 (31:44):
It's been good.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
It's definitely worth reading. It's been a lot of fun.
How many issues are you into it?

Speaker 1 (31:50):
I think I'm like of the second arc whatever it is, Okay,
I think I'm in like the seventh.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
I think I'm in I don't remember what issue im on. Okay,
you're getting to the good stuff though.

Speaker 5 (32:02):
Yeah, it's been good.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
It's halfway through the first run is where he's at
the point now where he's kind of trying to He's
trying to keep telling Foggy that he's not Daredevil anymore,
and I'm like, you're well, and Foggy's basically saying, well, you're, yeah,
you are. You're doing all the Daredevil stuff. You're acting,
You're acting on Daredevil whit, you know, right, And so
I'm trying to figure out where what Matt's trying to
accomplish with that.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Right, But it's it's really good. Dared Devil issue twelve
by Solid and Ahmed was fantastic, great issues. Oh that, Yeah,
I told Sam the spoilers and why would you do that?
Because he's not going to read it. He doesn't. You
don't know how to read yet?

Speaker 5 (32:39):
What's reading?

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, exactly, But yes, that's the the comic books this
week that are coming out. Please check your local comics
tomorrow or they'll come out tomorrow. Yes, they come out tomorrow.
Check your local comic store or not local, like me
an hour away to pick up your comics and make
sure that you get the ones that you're wanting to read.
Hirich and Aliens Versus Adventures. If you're an alien fan,

(33:02):
it's gonna be fun seeing a Zeno, more fight Hulk
getting crazy. But it's pretty much what comics are created for,
doing crazy things. But yeah, dad, what are we talking
about today?

Speaker 1 (33:12):
I'm going to talk about what went wrong with the
Acolyte and how we can learn lessons from it for
the future of Star Wars. And I've got to ask
a question that it makes me really uncomfortable to ask.
At the end of it, Oky religions and ancient weapons
are no match for a good blast church, you sa,
I can't.

Speaker 5 (33:31):
Rebellions are built on hope. Of course, it's with me
and I am with the fourth. If you live long enough,
you see the same eyes and different people.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
That it actually hasn't been con fun by.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
It's pretty much been confirmed Star Wars, Lucasfilm, Disney yet. Yeah,
but it's all been it's not denied, so exactly pretty
well accepted that there will be no season two of
The Acolyte. I'm curious before we get into kind of
what I'm calling the autopsy, which I thought was funny

(34:22):
because of all the people that died. But anyway, before
we autopsy the Acolyte thoughts on the fact that they're
not bringing back a season two, I'm curious, Sandy, are
you surprised by that?

Speaker 5 (34:36):
No, I'm not.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
It just.

Speaker 4 (34:39):
Did not have enough of a positive fan reaction for
them to justify making a new season. It'd be like the.

Speaker 5 (34:54):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (34:54):
The only thing I can think of is the morbious effect,
where like everybody was like, Oh, it's the best movie ever,
so they're like, oh, the people like it, let's throw another,
let's throw it back in the theaters. And then it
flopped again, right, I mean, it was just like a
double embarrassment for the studio, and I'm worried that that
might be what would happen if Disney tried to do
this again. With the Acolyte, because even if season two

(35:18):
completely took a one eighty, fixed all of the concerns
and complaints that everyone had and it was a fantastic series,
it would still be sullied by the reputation that was
put forth from the first season. So I don't I
just don't think they can, from a business standpoint, in
good conscious, make a season two of this series.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Nathan, what about you? Surprised by this? Not really surprised.
I mean from the beginning, it kind of felt like
this was an experiment more than anything, and obviously kind
of became a failed experiment. They wanted to test the
waters with the higher Republic show and didn't even really
bring in the higher public stuff, and just felt like
they were really trying to bring something into a more general,

(36:04):
casual TV show vibe as opposed to what we've gotten before.
We'll talk about so that that's what it feels like.
It felt like an experiment, it felt like a failed one.
And they can cut ties when they want to because
they're Disney and nobody's gonna stop them.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
So well, it's it's a business, right right. And so
the Nielsen ratings numbers were released and then the next day.
This turns out is TV streaming streaming ratings, like how
many people watched what?

Speaker 2 (36:37):
And it came in where it.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
After the third episode, the numbers just they weren't over
the top. On the verse three episodes, they were pretty good.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
They plummeted.

Speaker 5 (36:54):
Was which episode was the third one? I can't remember?

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Isn't that the flashbook episode?

Speaker 1 (36:59):
That it's the flash the first flashback episode that I
understand that when we all started going to go and
what just happened with this, and the numbers just tanked
after that. They rose up for the finale, not to
the levels that they had been, but the numbers just
weren't there. Now before we kind of dive into some

(37:21):
of the other conversation with this, I'm curious one argument
that I've heard from the renew the Acolyte you know movement,
which again I have no problem with people trying to
get this thing. They did it with rebels, they did
they did it with Clone Wars, right, and it worked

(37:41):
the thing that they're saying, and there's there's validity to
this season.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
One of the.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Clone Wars was largely considered a lot more misses than hits.

Speaker 5 (37:54):
That's fair.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Overall, it didn't get the fan reaction and that kind
of thing and there and and some say the same
about Rebels, which is our show, right. The argument that
it's being made is that it takes a show like this,
you know, you have to give it a second or
third season sometimes for things to really really start to

(38:15):
develop and for it to grow. I'm curious, Okay, is
there validity to that.

Speaker 4 (38:21):
There's one thing for fan reactions to be not overwhelmingly positive,
and then there's another thing for fan reactions to be largely,
if not mostly negative towards the show. The first season,
I don't think Clone Wars or Rebels had a large
group of people who were outspoken against the series.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
You know, there was, though, I mean there was. That
was the stuff that was where things turned so ugly
against Ashley Eckstein, and there's just I mean, there was
a lot of real negativity to the Clone Wars movie
and bringing in Ahsco the sam of the same arguments.
It breaks Cannon Anakin should never had a padawan? Why

(39:07):
does he have a padawan?

Speaker 5 (39:08):
Now?

Speaker 1 (39:09):
All of these types of things are going on, some
of the same things, and I think you have to
be honest about it. Nathan, what do you think do
you think that that there's something to be said about
an argument about letting it, letting it play.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Out, there's validity, there is validity to it. It checks out.
But also, let's just be honest. When Clone Wars and
Rebels were coming out very different times in the world
of entertainment. That's sure, streaming services didn't exist. Businesses like
that weren't relying on streaming numbers to be so important.

(39:43):
Viewership wasn't as important when it comes to Clone Wars
and Rebels, though. I think they were getting great viewership
for their shows for animated children's TV, which at that
time it pretty much was Cartoon Network and Disney Channel
is originally what rebels in Clone Wars were on getting
great numbers. They were getting great viewership. A lot of

(40:04):
people talked about it a lot of and you didn't
have social media. So if a lot of people that
you were around were talking about it, then you know
that it was popular. There's no doubt about that. And
I knew that Sam and I tried to catch Clone
Wars a few times when I was on air, so
they were being watched. Yes, people might have had problems

(40:26):
with it, but.

Speaker 4 (40:28):
I think the target audience was ultimately children, and children
were too exactly enjoying it.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
And target audience for Acolyte was not children. Let's just
be honest here. That wasn't the vibe that they were
going for. It's a live action anything.

Speaker 4 (40:39):
It was trying to be more I don't know, for
lack of a better term, gritty mature. Yeah, it was
more of a mature audience that it was going for.
And when you bring that in and you have some
people that are just not as satisfied with it, which
is fair. It happens, and so I think that there's

(41:01):
validity to the argument, but also people need to realize,
due to very different times we live in, it was
a very different show. You cannot really compare Clone Wars
and Rebels to the Acolyte. They're under the same banner,
but that's pretty much where the comparisons can stop. And
I think that that's just something people need to really understand.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Why do you think, you know, if you were to
try to summarize why the Acolyte didn't work and was
ultimately canceled, I'll start with you, Nate. If you were
trying to kind of like summarize that in one sentence
one statement. What would you say is there is if
you were to nail it down to one thing, what
would that be.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
I genuinely would say production that goes from writing too sets,
to acting, to directing, to pretty much a lot of
the ings that go behind this TV show.

Speaker 4 (41:57):
I think a good way to summarize what you're saying
and what I'm thinking is I think the series tried
to bite off more than it could chew.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
I don't even know if it tried to do that.
I mean, you have Leslie Hedlind, one of the greatest
television show directors of all time, heading up this show
with the budget of a Disney Star Wars TV series.
You have all of the resources to fully realize this potential.
I just think that the quality of creativity wasn't there.

Speaker 5 (42:27):
There's an execution.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
It was an execution error. You lay this down on
paper and it sounds interesting, We're.

Speaker 5 (42:35):
All on board exactly into this.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
And that comes. That happens a lot. It sometimes happens
where the concept's really interesting for a movie or a
TV show and you watch it and you're like, oh,
that was pretty darn disappointing. There are many movies where
that has happened before that we've seen. I mean you
can even bring it into the woods if we're talking
about other Disney stuff returnals. Yeah, I mean you have

(42:58):
those movies. We were excited going into it.

Speaker 4 (43:01):
I mean we were doing the research going up to it,
learning about the backstory with Jack Kirby, all these things,
like super excited to see how they were gonna interpret
and adapt that to the movie. And we walked out
sorely disappointed, and.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
That that movie also had to deal with execution. I
think that pretty much that's just the issue with this
TV series was the production, the execution of just the
lackluster quality. And then you compare it to some of
the things we've gotten recently. I mean you have Godzilla
Minus One, the Creator, Romulus, you have all of these

(43:36):
pretty low budget I mean lower budget. Robert Downey Junior's
salary for Avengers Doomsday, Like when entire budget for a
movie is under that and.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Is better executed, I think that's more of a condemnation
of his salary for that.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
It is it is, but you got it, there's something
fast to be done different. You have the resources, and.

Speaker 5 (44:02):
You haven't shown that this can be done well.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
And it shows that you can do it well. I
mean Leslie Headlind had one of the greatest.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah, let's talk about that, because because it's interesting you
think about Leslie Headlund and and she you know, Russian
Doll and some of those types of things. A very
very widely regarded and critically acclaimed series.

Speaker 5 (44:28):
Yes, right, we haven't watched it.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Because it's got some some content in it that just
wouldn't be on our radar we wouldn't want to be
a part of. But still it was recognized as being
appreciate that absolutely, it was recognized as being as being fantastic.

Speaker 5 (44:44):
Why.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
I was having a conversation with somebody last week and
they asked me if I watched The Acolyte and because
they found out about our podcast and so they wanted
like what they thought was an informed position on this,
which is anything but informed. But anyway, I tried to
describe it this way. You know, you've got Star Wars

(45:08):
needs to be cinematic, right, Star Wars works best when
it's big, agreed, right, And so you have shows like
especially a Mandalorian, especially season one you have and or

(45:28):
Ah Soka and those types of things which always feel big,
they feel epic the stories feel big.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
All of that.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Favreau, John Favreau, Tony Gilroy are movie guys. They're not
TV guys, right, I mean, I don't know if anything
either of the two of them have done that have
been driven by TV, like primarily before Mandalorian and or right.
So they're taking a big screen sensibility and putting it

(46:04):
in the small screen. You have Leslie Headland, who is
a TV person, and there's nothing I love some of that,
you know.

Speaker 5 (46:15):
Stuff like that that's out there.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
But she's trying to take epic stories and put them
on the small screen, and she's doing it with TV
series sensibilities. And I just don't think Star Wars work small.
And it came across small it felt like c W.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
I understand where you're coming from. And I don't think
that's I'm not criticizing Leslie Headland. I think that you're right. Ye,
Star Wars doesn't need to be cinematic, but doesn't necessarily
mean it doesn't need to be small. Rebels is pretty small.

Speaker 5 (46:57):
That's different.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
It's animation, understand, And I wanted to say, would this series.
I've heard other people ask this question. I've been asking
it since the third week or third episode. Would this
series do better as animation?

Speaker 4 (47:10):
Yeah, I think so, because I was about to say,
and then you brought up that qualifier of it being animation.
Clone Wars is widely considered some of the best Star
Wars out there, and it was headed up by Dave Filoni,
who got his start on Avatar The Last Airbender, a
TV show, so he has a TV mindset going into.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
He is mentored by George Lucas.

Speaker 4 (47:33):
Still that we don't know who mentored Leslie Headlind or
what advice she got from someone, maybe on the big
screen side of things. But you're right, that's animation and
it's a very different medium where smaller stories where less
happens is much more common. Filler episodes if you want

(47:53):
to call them that, And we use that term very
carefully because it's we don't always think that there's The
Pergols are a great example of what we would think
is a fun filler episode and then that doesn't happen, right,
So you gotta be careful with throwing around that term.
But animation is much more used that medium as much
more used to having episodes where it's smaller scale.

Speaker 5 (48:15):
I guess as a way to put it.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
I think that if the Aclte was kind of in
the same vein and felt similar to Tartakovski's Clone Wars,
it would have been amazing, because Tartakovski's Clone Wars is
a lot of weird things.

Speaker 5 (48:29):
It's weird.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Well Star Wars animation.

Speaker 4 (48:31):
Do you think bring Tartkovskinny back in for something.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
They love that, But I think he's busy with his
own stuff right now. But I do think that Tartakovski's
Clone Wars is a great example to smaller scale, weird
cool animation, and I think the Acolyte would have lended
itself better to an animation in that vein than more
of a mainline stream. You even bring visions into the equation,

(49:00):
make something like the Aclyte that's like visions, make a
full blown Star Wars anime, full season Star Wars anime.
Aclite fits that bill very well. Absolutely, okay put it
into that. I think that would have been fantastic. You
bring in the anime fans, which is fine, love love
that they love anime, and then you bring in Star
Wars fans, and you have then loved something that's weird

(49:22):
and crazy and has a strange story. But It's something
you can get behind because it doesn't feel like this
is something that is so insanely important for Star Wars
that it had to be in live action.

Speaker 4 (49:33):
I like how you bring up it could have it
should have been in an anime format for two reasons. One,
it's been shown that Star Wars fans like the anime medium.
Visions seasons one and two did phenomenal. But I think
if you made this series starting off as an anime,
it immediately tells every viewer, hey, this is different. Yes,

(49:58):
you literally have not seen anything like this and Stars
before except Visions, and that's an anthology series.

Speaker 5 (50:02):
It's not canon.

Speaker 4 (50:03):
This is the first canon anime. You can't compare it
to Clone Wars anymore. You can't compare to Rebels.

Speaker 5 (50:10):
It's its own thing.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
They need.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Also plays towards the kimeer Osha stuff, the relationship that's
prevalent in anime. Yeah, right, The flip flopping of the
flip flopping of the characters would have worked in the anime.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (50:25):
The darker, more gray, ambiguous tone fits that medium.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
Well. Plus you could have I.

Speaker 5 (50:32):
Mean, let's just be honest, and the production would have
been less.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
Would they could have had more time to tell stories
because the production doesn't come and the I mean, I
think I want to say something. I think that Disney
execs screwed them on this. It's come out through some writers. Specifically,
we've talked about episodes three and episodes seven seven, which

(50:58):
were Choice, Destiny, the flashbacks okay rough.

Speaker 5 (51:04):
No no, no, no, no?

Speaker 2 (51:05):
Maybe not Choice andant? What were the ones?

Speaker 5 (51:08):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Four and five?

Speaker 5 (51:09):
Were those two?

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Like Day and Night?

Speaker 5 (51:12):
Those two?

Speaker 1 (51:12):
That's those two. But Day got great at the end
and then let into Night, which was really good.

Speaker 5 (51:21):
Right.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
The writer of that came out and said, of both,
I think they wrote both, they were like, no, we
were told we needed to make that one episode.

Speaker 5 (51:30):
One episode. We needed to make that.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
We needed to make Day its own episode, at Night
its own episode and drag it out, and we don't know.
I guess we had to get a certain number of
episodes in. Is what I've heard people say. I feel
like this, I think Disney screwed this thing up. I
think I'm not putting this on just on writers and
all of this. I think Disney screwed this up and

(51:55):
made what could have been a phenomenal series that a
lot of people do think is a phenomenes that they
absolutely love it. They love the characters, they have the
back floor to the high republic stuff that the average
fan doesn't, and they love the story because they know
that all of those things.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
I think Disney.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Messed this thing up from start to finish with this.
I think they over hyped it, yep, and I think
that that hurt it as well. My biggest concern coming
out of the Acolyte and thinking back to Book of

(52:35):
Boba fet thinking back to lower numbers for other things
that have happened. How long it's been since we've had
a Star Wars feature film. All of this, I guess
my question that I'm afraid to ask, but I'm going
to ask it, and we could spend a couple of
minutes talking about it. Has Star Wars moved past being

(53:00):
a big megafranchise? Has has it run its course as
a megafranchise?

Speaker 4 (53:06):
I don't, And I think what it needs to do
is it needs to have a major.

Speaker 5 (53:14):
Switch up, change something.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
I don't know what the word is, but it's falling
into the trap of too much content. It needs to
dial back, which feels weird because I'm saying that in
order for me to really want Star Wars.

Speaker 5 (53:34):
I want less Star Wars. But I think the problem
is is it's their business. Disney's a business. They want
to make money.

Speaker 4 (53:42):
How do you make money You consistently release products, new products, right,
especially in today's culture where everybody wants a new thing
every other week.

Speaker 5 (53:53):
I mean, freaking.

Speaker 4 (53:55):
Roosevelts the line They're new doing a new drop every
week twice a week, twice. It's crazy, right, because that's
the culture we live in, and I think that Star
Wars is just not built for that. It needs I'm
almost willing to say full stop on Disney Plus series.
Just stop them for a while and then go back
to the event movie mindset and don't go into the

(54:20):
marvel trap of like four movies a year or something
crazy one maybe two a year. Bring it back. I
think that means that it will be that Stars will
become less of a money maker for Disney. But if
they want Star Wars to be successful, I think they
need to go back to what made it magical in

(54:40):
the first place, movies every few years, something to look
forward to. And then in the meantime, Star Wars fans
will do what Star Wars fans do best, they'll theorize,
they'll do fan projects.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Well, they could do the books.

Speaker 5 (54:53):
They can'll do the books, They'll do.

Speaker 4 (54:54):
The stuff again, And I'm fine with that too, But
I think you need to just step back a minute
and not release so much and focus on.

Speaker 5 (55:08):
Quality story first. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
Yeah, I don't think it's It's run its courses blockbuster franchise.
I can use this. I've been seeing this dialogue go
around social media's for the past few days and referencing
Alien and Alien Romulus. Disney themselves, Alien Romulus was not

(55:32):
a project they were looking forward to. Disney was considering
putting it on the chopping block and just moving it
to Hulu till basically the few weeks before it came
out in the theaters.

Speaker 5 (55:45):
How's it done in the box office?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
It has made two hundred million worldwide on an eighty
million budget. Been a huge success, especially for our horror fi.
And Disney said before this movie came out they thought
that Alien was a dying franch eyes, which I mean,
you look at the numbers. Yeah, after after Covenant, Prometheus
is probably its highest money maker, but Covenant wasn't. And yeah,

(56:10):
you can consider Alien to be a dying franchise, and
they were taking a risk on putting in the theaters,
and that risk has taken has been a great risk.
It was very well calculated, and it wasn't Disney. It
was the directors and the crew behind Alien Romulus that

(56:32):
had the passion behind the project to keep it in theaters.
That I'm not saying that any type of passion was
not put into any of those projects. I'm saying that
Alien Romulus has shown Disney that these people love what
they're doing and they pretty much know better when it

(56:56):
comes to these things like Jon Favreau, like Dave Filoni,
like Floni being taking that huge risk for Rebels, making
something that a lot of people weren't really super excited about, continuing,
making something that after season one yes didn't get critically
received super well, turning into one of the highest rated

(57:17):
animated television shows of all time, not let alone with
Star Wars. So I think that there's a lot when
you were talking to.

Speaker 4 (57:24):
Me, I think it was just last night, Nate, that
Disney execs were coming to who's the director of fa
Fade Alvarez saying, hey, you got to cut spoilers.

Speaker 5 (57:35):
If you haven't seen Romulus, you.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Got to cut the end. Just just call it cut
the end.

Speaker 4 (57:39):
Yeah, the big moment at the end, cut the big
thing at the end, which if you know what I'm
talking about, you know what I'm talking about, right. It
was the kind of the moment of the movie that
pushed it over the edge for me that I loved
it right. Execs were coming to Fade and saying, hey,
you got to get rid of this, and we're too
worried about this, and Fade was like, I'm going to
keep it in there even more now because you said that.

(58:01):
So I think it is kind of going back to
what you said, Dad. I don't know if this is
what happened with Acolyte, but it from what I've heard,
it sounds like it could be the case. I think
execs are coming in being, hey, they have their corporate
mindset with things, not their artistic, you know, passion project mindset.
They're coming into it from a product, a corporate mindset

(58:25):
saying hey, you need to do this, this and this,
and while the creators are like, no, this is not
what I have in mind. And unfortunately, Fade Alvarez stuck
to his guns and I think it paid off. But
that I guess maybe the Acolyte crew didn't have that
choice to be able to stand up. You look at
it from the other side of the spectrum, and you

(58:47):
look at DC Studios right now, and you see the
people that don't let any of the studio execs get
in the way. If you know James Gunn, he's not
going to let anybody tell him no because he has
a lot of passion for these stories and he's decided
he's taken control. And from what we're seeing, we don't

(59:09):
know the quality right now, but from what we've seen,
his love is showing through every single set photo or
documentary about Christopher Reeves that's coming out. I have never
seen him post more about anything than about this documentary,
about how much.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
He loves it. And that is a side of letting
people's creativity really just shine. Loving that and same with
Matt Reeves and how much he's been a huge supporter
and letting Matt Reeves do what he does for The
Batman Part two, I mean, we were supposed to.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Even if it doesn't fit into the DCU. You do,
you do.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
You don't care how long it takes for you to
get it down exactly how you want it. Take your time,
do what you need to do, make it as good
as that original movie, and that's all I care about.
The writer for The Batman says that Matt Reeves is
loving what he's working on. He is a genius with
this second movie, and he's taking his time, which is

(01:00:09):
fine by me. Do that. We aren't seeing that at
Disney right now. You're not seeing it with Marvel right now.
You're struggling to see a lot of it with some
of the Disney projects that are going on because it
just feels like they're a factory. We haven't done this
in a long time, but I think it's time for
us to get back to doing it. Here's a little
bit of a dad moment.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
I am you will father.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
So I recently saw a video of some eleven or
twelve year old girl practicing soccer with her team. She
was absolutely dreadful at soccer. I mean, she couldn't kick
the ball, she couldn't dribble it. She looked like a
disaster out there, like you felt sorry for her when

(01:00:49):
she was doing it. And when the drill stopped for
a break, this girl stepped away from the rest of
the team into an open area of the field and
then did this absolute utely breathtaking tumbling routine on the grass,
just going nuts with it. And as you watch it,
you're starting to think. Her problem wasn't her athleticism. Her

(01:01:11):
problem wasn't wasn't who she is and what she was not.
She was not in her gifting, she was not given
opposit strengths. She she wasn't using your strength. You had
a strength today for school. That's so funny.

Speaker 5 (01:01:29):
No, but she wasn't. She wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
She didn't find her fits.

Speaker 5 (01:01:32):
It's the whole.

Speaker 4 (01:01:32):
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb
a tree, its whole life, it's never gonna amount to absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
I think that they they screwed Leslie Headland and the
team of the Accolade on this thing. I think that
they had some interesting ideas that they were trying to explore.
They weren't given the opportunity to do it. I think
that Star Wars has to stay big. I think that
you have to put you have to get better as
an organist, as a as a company, Lucasfilm, Star Wars, Disney,
they have to get better about the choices that they're

(01:02:01):
making when it comes to release schedule, the types of
stories they want to tell, the resources they're giving these
people and the freedom to do it. And they got
scared after the last Jedi.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
They got scared.

Speaker 5 (01:02:18):
That's why they went back to JJ.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
And they ran home to a formulaic approach to Star Wars.
And while the Mandalorian and some things have done amazing
and we've loved it, they better get back to letting
the Ryan Johnsons of this world start making Star Wars again.

(01:02:41):
And I because that's what George Lucas did in the seventies.
He bucked the system. He fought twentieth century Fox the
whole time, and he made the stories he wanted to tell.

Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
Looking the way that he wanted them to look. And
he can't well.

Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
And I think that's part of the reason why while
Niche Visions has done so well, because that's literally all
that show is. It's not tied down by cannon. So
these different studios are able to just go in and
tell the story they want to tell. And some of
the some amazing stories in a very great period.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Wars stuff we've gotten recently, it hasn't.

Speaker 5 (01:03:18):
Come from that all because creators are able to create.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Yeah, so there is a new Marvel's Guide for Dummies
coming out, which is just eighty five years of comic
lore condensed into one book. I've heard this thing.

Speaker 5 (01:03:33):
I want to pick this.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
People are excited, people are excited. Some people are a
little iffy, like you can't condense eighty five years of
storylines into one book, which I understand if you're looking
at it from DC. If you're looking at for Marvel,
you can do that. It's fine. They're pretty good with that.
DC is rough because DC has had so many different resets, Crisis,

(01:03:56):
Crisis I, Crisis Prices, and they've done their own all
some history and encyclopedias. But that's just pretty much like here,
let me update you on what it's going on currently
with these characters. But it's gonna be a ton of
fun to see a Guide for dummies. I'll probably pick
it up, read it and see what's going on. Yeah,
Stars Outlaws is close to coming out. Getting some reviews.
I have very mix.

Speaker 4 (01:04:16):
I've seen reviews or everybody's kind of like it's fun,
or I've seen things where it's like it's horrible. Personally,
I haven't really seen anything in it to get me
all that excited about it, But I still hope.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
I'm seeing a Metacritics Critics store of seventy seven, which
is metic critical. It's crazy for video game a Star
Wars one recently, like like that's that's just that's pretty good.

Speaker 5 (01:04:40):
I've heard it's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Pretty much uncharted for Star Wars. That would be fun,
which is a fun aspect. Yeah, absolutely cool. I've I've
got a new podcast I'm listening to. It's it's an
audio drama podcast and it's made by the guy the
production company that made like Law and Order, so Dick
Wolf called dark Woods, and it's a it's been actually

(01:05:03):
pretty good.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
We wanted to check out something else do that. I
think that's going to pretty much do it for this week.
Make sure you're following us on substack. We have a
study year that we will not have an episode come
out next week, because, as we talk about, we're gonna
we're not gonna worry about recording an episode when we
get back from Disney World that day and planning one
out and all that other stuff. We'll come back on
the tenth. Tenth will be the next episode. September tenth will.

Speaker 5 (01:05:29):
Be the next episode.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
I think it's going to do it for this week
anything else you guys would like to say, May the
Force be with you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
With you always.

Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
This party is over.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
I like that

Speaker 5 (01:05:45):
With me.