September 3, 2025 • 39 mins
Order 66 is old news. Coruscant's draped in shadow. And in Adam Lance Garcia's Star Wars Insider tale, "The Failing of the Light," a true believer faces a choice that'll leave you questioning everything. This week, we're diving deep with Adam (the mastermind behind Dex's poignant moment in From A Certain Point of View: Return of the Jedi) to unpack one of the darkest Star Wars short stories we've ever encountered.
Forget Jedi versus Sith. Adam flips the script, plunging us into the heart of the Path of the Open Hand and showing how faith, fear, and trauma can pave the road to radicalization. Why should Star Wars dads care? Because this story is a goldmine for discussing empathy, moral ambiguity, and the civilian cost of war with your kids.
We're talking High Republic echoes, a Legends deep cut involving Synox poison, and conversation starters guaranteed to spark epic kitchen-table debates. What would you do if someone you trusted claimed the Jedi were the bad guys? How do you spot the line between conviction and extremism?
THIS is Tatooine Sons!
Looking for more episodes? https://podfollow.com/tatooine-sons-a-pop-culture-podcast/home
Join our Facebook Community SPECIFICALLY for Star Wars Dads! > https://www.facebook.com/groups/starwarsdads
Forget Jedi versus Sith. Adam flips the script, plunging us into the heart of the Path of the Open Hand and showing how faith, fear, and trauma can pave the road to radicalization. Why should Star Wars dads care? Because this story is a goldmine for discussing empathy, moral ambiguity, and the civilian cost of war with your kids.
We're talking High Republic echoes, a Legends deep cut involving Synox poison, and conversation starters guaranteed to spark epic kitchen-table debates. What would you do if someone you trusted claimed the Jedi were the bad guys? How do you spot the line between conviction and extremism?
THIS is Tatooine Sons!
Looking for more episodes? https://podfollow.com/tatooine-sons-a-pop-culture-podcast/home
Join our Facebook Community SPECIFICALLY for Star Wars Dads! > https://www.facebook.com/groups/starwarsdads
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Order sixty six has fallen, Coruscant is in shadow, and
in Adam Lanscarcia's new Star Wars insider tale, The Failing
of the Light, a true believer from the path of
the Open Hand faces a choice that'll make you question
who the hero really is. We're unpacking high Republic echoes,
(00:20):
the civilian costs of the Clone Wars, and a legend's
deep cut you'll spot if you know you're poisons. Adam Yeah,
he's the writer who gave Dex his moment in from
a certain point of view, Return of the Jedi, and
a big friend of this podcast joins us to explore
crafting one of the darkest Star Wars short stories we've
(00:41):
ever read. Star Wars Dad's This one is rich. Stay tuned.
This is Tatooine Sons.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Welcome to Tatowine's Sons, a Star Wars podcast, the only
fan podcast to name a Cannon Star Wars creature and
to be endorsed by the writer and director of The
Last Jedi, Ryan John. Get ready to explore a galaxy
far far away across the generations. Here is your host,
David the bow Tie Jedi Guy, along with his special guest,
(01:12):
Star Wars author Adam Lance Garcia.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
No, you will experience the full power of the dark Shy.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
All right, So this is the second thing you've done
official Star Wars stuff. Now we've got decks in there
from a certain point of view Return of the Jedi,
But now we are in this very particular corner of
the Star Wars galaxy. We're post Order sixty six, we're
on Corusant. What drew you into this this timeline in
(01:43):
this story.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Well, I mean, like most things, when it comes to
working with large ipe, you're kind of approached and they're like, hey,
we want to have a story set during this period,
or like we want we're looking for this kind of thing,
or we're looking for that kind of thing. And in
this case, you know, Lucasm came to me via Star
(02:05):
Wars Insider, my editor Chris Cooper. We're like, hey, we
hear you're good, you know, which is always nice to hear.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
We're we're looking for sort of a Revenge of the
Sith adjacent story, something sort of like not necessarily from
a certain point of view for Revenge of the Sith,
but we want something that sort of set during Revenge
of the Sith to time with this sort of like
overall you know, twentieth annivers fary sort of initiative that
they've been doing. And they asked for a bunch of pitches,
(02:33):
and you know, in typical fashion when it comes to
me and Star Wars, they're like, uh, you know, they're like,
just send us three and I send them five. You know,
the I won't cut into the ones that I pitched
that weren't picked, but you know, the number one choice
was what eventually became the Failing of the Light. Uh.
It was the one that really intrigued me because I'm
(02:57):
a big fan of the High Republic. I mean, I
think if anyone knows me both like in my public
life and in my private life, I'm a huge Star
Wars book fan. Not just like obviously a Star War fan,
like full stop. But if you're watching this on video,
you can see some of the books behind me. That's
literally some of the books. Like I need to buy
more bookshelves, but I have like a closet full of legends,
(03:21):
like a near complete collection of legends, a basically a
complete collection of canon, tons of reference books. You know,
Star Wars print is a store's pros. More specifically, is
something that really maybe you want to become a writer.
When I was a kid, you know, I read The
Glove Glove of Darth Vader as my first sort of
intro into Star Wars pros and I'm obsessed with it
(03:45):
and more in more recent terms, the High Republic has
been something that's really spoken to me. You know. I
say that both as a as a fan first and
a writer second, because I think with the Higher Republic
it's and I've said this elsewhere and I'll say it again.
The more content we got within the Higher Republic, the
(04:07):
more context to give to the prequel era, to the
Secret Era, to the original trilogy. It was a really
interesting era that they opened up, partially because they introduced
new Force religions, you know, that was sort of already
insinuated and implied with the Church of the Force and
the Force Awakens. But what is really fascinating with the
(04:30):
Higher Republic is the pathy open hand. For me at least,
that was something that was introduced in Phase two by
Justina Ireland and Tessa Grattin. That was really just like
this idea that there's this extreme view of the Force
that it cannot be touched or used at all, and
you know, it was like, okay, well, like how does
how would that religion feel or the ardence of that
(04:53):
religion to feel when Order sixty six happens. How would
they feel during the clone wars? And how would that
like an actolade of that faith react to seeing all this?
And it's just it. It opened up a lot of
really interesting narrative ideas, a lot of really interesting thematic ideas.
(05:13):
So that was that was just the one I really
gravitated towards. It was really excited about when I was
when the idea came to me. It was one that
I came up to really quickly and was I was
pleasantly shocked, but not shocked that they were like, oh,
this is the one we want you to do, partially
like I sent it to my agent first and we're like,
(05:33):
we were like, this is the strongest one. We've put
it first, and we were just like we knew it
was a strong one. But again, I'm still kind of
shocking to let me say, tell the story because of
of what happens. Yeah, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Dark with it. We're going to get to that for sure,
and it's.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah, No, I mean, I I find it interesting. I
mean I was. I've said this on Blue Sky, and
but I think it is one of those. I think
it's an interesting sort of like counterpoint to Dexter Jester
where to the Veteran, where I think it's that story
is all about finding hope, like crawling out of the
(06:15):
darkness and finding hope. This one is sort of like
it is also about finding hope, but it is the
darkest version of that because of this the main character's
point of view. It's a really interesting and version of
the other. And they sort of like they're they're not
they're not to meant to be, you know, in conversation
with each other, but they're also kind of in conversation
(06:35):
with each other. I kind of see them as like
sort of like inverse, like you know, you to see
this character like sort of like fall deeper dark and
darknes into darkness where you and felling of the light,
whereas in the Veteran you sort of see someone calm
like rise their way out of depression or begin to
they can find their roy out of depression. But yeah,
(06:57):
it's a very it's a really dark story. And I
swear to God, I'm not this darkened person.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I know, which is why it's so it's so fascinating
to get to and I'm reading it, I'm like, oh,
this person's gonna there there, you know, this character is
going to come out of this. They're gonna, They're gonna
this is actually they're going to see the perspective of
this padawan and hear the stories of what this padawan
has gone through, and it's going to bring them, you know,
(07:23):
to the light instead they go. You know, it's pretty
obviously and I know, you know, you mentioned when we
were when we were you know, conversing about this and
I'm Blue Scotty. You were talking about the fact that,
you know, this is a little more vague than the
original intention or the original idea for it with the story,
but it's it's like, oh my gosh, that's the way
this story is really ending, yeah with it? What I mean,
(07:45):
was there ever a chance where you were thinking we
were going in a different direction with it or yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I think so. In the initial pitch it was kind
of like this it was ambiguous, like will she be
tempted to light or will she choose darkness? And I
I don't know how certain I was about what's this?
What direction Jessa Core would take. I felt like it
really could have. It was a kind of a coin
(08:11):
flip when I first started writing, But as the story progressed,
and really when I got to the paragraph when she
makes the choice, it became very clear like this was
what which what this is what was true for her?
And you know, I think that's something you know, you
can say, like, oh, she's going to like make this
choice for the Light. You have to understand from her
(08:33):
point of view, she did.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
She's making that choice.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yeah, she's making the right choice based on the indoctrination
that she's you know, had because of the religion that
she has. For for her, this was the own This
is the right choice. This is the one that she
needed to do. There was no other version of this
(09:00):
for her, Like she had to make this dark, dark
choice because it was like again like for her, for
her faith. It's like that was it was true.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It's just fascinating as a character because she's not a Jedi.
She's not said, you know, she's part of this. She's
got this really deep seated belief system with her. And
it's almost like you could almost or at least for me,
thinking back at the story and and and Jessa, that's
how it's printed, jessha.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I will say, and I've said this elsewhere, like I
pronounced them a certain way, so I'm not even sure
how to pronounce because they're I will never I will never,
I will never prescribe. I will try not to. I'm
sure that won't always be true. But I won't always
sit there and be like to fans like lays it
this way, because it's just like until Like it's also
(09:45):
I have to be conscious of the fact that like
these are not ultimately not my choice, you know, like
I'm very lucky to play with these action figures and
put them back in the box, you know, but I'm
I'm not going to be the like, let's say what
it would be so cool if like Jessa shows up
in you know, a movie someday. I doubt that would
be really cool, but like, you know, the lucasfilm might
(10:08):
decide this is how they pronounce it. You know. It's
like it's like when we you and I were like
coming up in a coarse scant and now it's corusn't
you know. So I want to sit here and say
like this there's the right wrong way, like I might pronounce.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
It this way.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
You could take that as as canon your way, Yeah, exactly,
until such time as Lucasim decides what they sound like,
I will, I will let the fans decide what how
to pronounce their names.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
That's a it's a very balanced, h and healthy approach
towards that.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
But you were saying with Jessa, like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
What kind of did you do any research into like
colts or belief systems or anything like this? As you
were you know, you've got mother tune and nap. I'm
gonna assume as a way to do this. The path
of the open hand obviously is established in the High Republic.
But did you like research the because again, this is
this is her belief, like she's fully vested in this.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I mean, I I didn't do any specific research into
cults for this story. But I've always been really fascinated
by different faiths. I mean partly because I am My
mother is Jewish, my father was Catholic, so I come
from a mixed faith home. So just being sort of
conscious and acknowledging of each different religion and sort of
(11:28):
being respectful of that has been sort of ingrained in me. So,
like I read a lot about I've read a lot
about Islam. I've also read about scientology. I wrote, I
like to learn a lot about different different different faiths
and sort of how they manifest. I'm also I am
fascinated by cults in general. You know, there's a lot
of cults that of various degrees in the world, and
(11:52):
learning about like how they sort of twist someone's perspective
based on like their their faith, Like I like, just
just learning about sort of those extremists has always been
interesting for me. So I've already had that sort of
like baseline interest, like like you know how like Tony
girl Roy is like really into revolutions and like now
I could talk about it, and it's kind of like
(12:13):
for me, not that I am anywhere near good as
writer Tony Gilroy, but for me, there's sort of like, oh, hey,
I'm preparing for this, like this sort of story, like
it has been the lingering in the back of my mind.
And then you know, like I was just I reread
a lot. I read some stuff for the Path of
the Open Hand, both in Path of Vengines, I looked
through the character in Higher Republic Character Encyclopedia. I was
(12:34):
just like you know again, I have a lot of
reference books and sort of looking through what they've said
about canonically and Star Wars, both with Path of the
Open Hand and elsewhere. But yeah, I again it was
a sort of initial fascination with the idea of like
they are these people who just believe unequivocally like you
cannot touch the force, you know, you cannot do this thing,
(12:58):
and then just asking the question of like how they
would react, how they would feel to these different things.
And then like I was saying, when it comes to
the decision that Jessa makes and the story, you get
to a point where you know, you look at all
the experiences she's had, both living through the Clone Wars
(13:19):
and then experience like her experience on Coruscant, and from
her perspective and her sort of life experience, would see
the Jedi as something that should be feared and hated.
But then you have, like again, all of her life experience,
(13:40):
all of the indoctrination that Mother Tunette sort of like
put into her when she hears about what happened to
the Jedi. Instead, and I will be honest, like again,
I didn't know how she was going to react, utilt
her let her react it was very much like she's
heard all this, so how she would she process it?
And for her, h just said like, oh, no, I'm
(14:03):
this is what they've done. They've they've used it for
so much like it destroyed them, so clearly we need
to like completely wipe them out so no more children
can be hurt. It just felt true for her. It
felt true for the faith on the path that you
open hand and also tied in thematically with Revenge of
the Sith, which was I think, which you know, which
(14:24):
was the the the the the ask of the beginning
was to write something that was set in Revenge of
the Sith, so you want to match the themes and
the tone.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, and it's it really does also dig into the
Clone Wars in a really visceral way, right with the
civilian cost With this, did you intentionally set out to
explore some of the moral ambiguities of that conflict, kind
of the beyond the usual Jedi versus separatists narrative and
that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I think what the interest what was interesting about the
Clone Wars. I think we've seen so much from the
perspective of the Jedi, from the perspective of the clones,
but you look at like how war affects the people
in its path, you know. I mean you could look
at anything from recent recent history to you know, world
(15:16):
history where it is you know, the people who suffer
the most aren't necessarily the people who are calling for
the war, who are fighting on the like. And not
to say that people don't suffer on the front lines,
but you definitely see what it does to the people,
(15:37):
the innocence and the civilians. And I had not really
seen that explored in the in Star Wars and the
Clone Wars, and I thought this was an interesting way
to like sort of have a way in but also
sort of like give give her Jess like a reasonable
understanding as to why she feels this way, Like you
(15:57):
could you can understand Base and her experience, what happened,
and why she would feel the way she feels. So
it kind of like goes all working in concerts.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
So, yeah, that's awesome. So we've got synox poison from this.
That's some serious Star Wars legends. Ye lore right, What
was that like when you when you kind of wanted
to bring that into the story. What was that like
from a from a writing perspective for you being a
fan of Legends growing up reading all this stuff, the
(16:26):
Old Republic stuff and all that, and also bringing that
into this because this is the first time that's that's
appeared in as far as.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I'm aware, yeah, as far as the canon, and like
you know, again, like we'll see, like ultimately where things
fall in canon. I always want to be like careful,
Like you know, there's no like there's like a there's
not such as a teer list as there used to
be in Legends, but like you know, ultimately, like what
is really canon will be defined by by lucasfilm. Because
(16:54):
even like you know, as much as like Tony Gilroyd
was really good about playing nice in absolutely the really
nice about playing within the Canyon, there are some things
excuse me that he sort of picked picked and choosed
here and there, which is totally understandable and is right
with that. But like with picking up Sinnox, it was
like I needed a poison, you know, and I wanted
(17:17):
to like give something sort of definitive, and I was thought,
like I could come up with something, but you know,
you start going through the list of like what poisons
are out there, you know, you start like you did
go into Wikipedia or like look on the in stars
encyclopedias and like, all right, like which ones are they?
Which is the one that felt right? And again it
was like Synox was like it wasn't in another story,
(17:37):
so I'm like, oh, well, like I can put it
in here. It felt nice, and I think, like what
I I what I'm trying to do with what I've
done hopefully with the Veteran and what I've hopefully done
without fan the Light is you know, I I want
to bring in those elements from legends here and there,
but like in a way that's not like like for example,
like the Battle of Almatana, which I think that's how
(17:58):
it's pronounced, you know, like that is I want I'm like,
all right, that that happened in the like in legends,
let me see if I can sort of bring that
into Cannon. And I was like, it was like, let
me see if I can. You know, I think because
it's like it's there and like it's the planet was
canonized with Jason Fry's recent update on the maps, I'm like, okay,
(18:20):
it's there. Definitely there was actually came out afterwards. I'm like, great,
I'm good. I know it's interesting, Like I think when
I'm bringing in Legends stuff, I don't know. I I'm
very careful about that because I don't want to ever
like I don't plan on it if I'm ever lucky
to do more Star Wars, Like I would never sit
(18:42):
there and like rewrite a story that I've read as
a kid, like because my feeling is like I've read
that story, it's fun, it's sitting there right now on
my shelf. I don't want to revisit it. I want
to do something new. But if I'm going to bring
something from Legends, I want to be like elements and
plots and plots me elements like uh like you know,
(19:03):
like references to it, you know, certain things that like
or morphous or like you know, like props and things
like that, just some sort of like because just to
build out the world a bit more.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
I I'm very careful when I come to bring in
stuff with Legends, because you just you don't want to
do like you know, I'm not gonna be like a
maniac and like bring back like yours cyboth into a
story you know, like as it like is. For a
number of reasons. One I think that like there are.
There are a lot of reasons why I will say this.
(19:37):
I think from there as certain legends of references, like
I almost had whale bonds in uh in the Veteran.
Whale dons mean a lot to me because again Glove
of Darth Vader or the first story I ever read,
and that meant a lot to me.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Zoraida Cardrova actually brought that into into canon a few uh,
a couple of years after me, after I tried. But
the reason I didn't put it in it was into
the Veteran. It was because it meant a lot to me.
It meant so much to me. It meant nothing to
Dexter Jester. They meant nothing to the end. And Sinox
(20:11):
was one of those examples where like it'll mean something
to certain readers they're like, oh my god, that's from legends,
but for most it's like it was. It was like,
this is clearly a poison that sounds like a poison name,
and it feels right for this story. You know, I
never wanted to just be you know, like with the
Joys Sea Bioth, I can never pronounce Sea Bioth. That's
(20:35):
how Zhon told me to pronounce it, like I would
never bring him in for the reasons. One because it's
like it means a lot to me, That story means
a lot to me, so I I personally don't want
to revisit it. It's he as a character might not
necessarily mean anything to the characters and the story, and
he'll meet a lot to the audience. But again, if
(20:58):
he doesn't mean anything to the characters and a story
and don't are not additive to the story, then why
am I going to include him? So that's like what
the Syknox Again, it was clearly poison. If you knew it,
it's a legends reference, all better for you. If you don't,
it doesn't matter. What matters is for Jessa. This is
(21:20):
a poison, and it's a clearly a deadly poison. If
you know how deadly it is, then it even better.
But it's it has to be any legends reference, any
legend reference I put into a story, at least, this
is my mindset has to be. It needs to feel
true to the characters and the story you're reading at
(21:43):
that moment. If I'm putting the myself or the audience first,
then those references mean will feel hollow. Whereas here it
feels visceral and real. At least that's my hope.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Risa, here's a survivor of Order sixty six. What was
your approach to writing about a Jedi padawan who had
witnessed all of that trauma and bringing that into this.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
The seems like, well, it's funny because like part of
it is I believe I like story. I like the
idea that Order sixty six jet has wiped out most
of the Jedi. I think that's just an interesting narrative choice.
You know, I think there there are some post Jedi
that I think really have resonated with me. So I
(22:36):
don't think it's like a binary choice of like they're
just needs to be Obi Wan and Yoda. But I
like it when it's really small, when like the when
we just know that, like it's just a handful of
Jedi left, and by the time Luke, you know, becomes
the last Jedi, he is the last Jedi. I just
think that's cool from a narrative standpoint. So that part
(22:58):
of that is, like, you know, like I I'm if
I'm going to introduce the survivor' already sixty six, I'm
probably gonna kill them off pretty quickly. But also I
think it was interesting like because we've seen you know
again I looked at Revenge of the Sith, and you
looked at like all the material that's come out since,
like an Obian Kenobi and even in the Mandalorian or
(23:20):
look above with that for that matter, and you can
kind of see that sense of how terrifying it was.
And again drawing upon real life events which I won't
really get into specifics, but like what it feels like
to have something like that happened in a place that
should be safe would be terrifying, And I think it
(23:40):
was just for me to be it was just narratively
interesting to see a Jedi who we have this sort
of like certain perspective on, like he's gonna be the
one that's going to like there the fight to the
last minute there, but there's like has to be Jedi
who ran who were terrified, because what is it like
to see, you know, these people that you thought were
(24:01):
like your your brothers, like all of a sudden turning
their weapons upon you. What did it like to see
like this this you know, shadowed figure with burning red
eyes and the lightsaber coming after you and just cutting
down children or younglings. What does it feel like? And
that's terrifying. That's it's genuinely very very terrifying.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
So is it was?
Speaker 3 (24:24):
It just felt real if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, it's good. Obviously there's the big ending of this
or their Jesu's face with this big decision, and it
kind of does feel like she's she's trying to decide
how to end this story on this How did you
approach writing that internal conflict and knowing that for some
people that are reading this, they're gonna they're gonna love
(24:47):
this ending. They're gonna think these actions are justified. Others
might see her as being a villain. What was that like?
Writing that ending that way?
Speaker 3 (24:54):
It was interesting because, like were the original draft was
a little bit more explicit, where in the original draft
she like breaks open the jogan pit and pours in
the liquid into the like and it's like, you know,
breaks it open, and it's like, yeah, she's gonna do it.
The sort of it's weirdly like the indecision, the sort
of ambiguity of it actually made it darker somehow. It
(25:18):
just sort of like is now like I think it
it It forces the audience, It forces the reader to
fill in the blank, and I think, you know, since
they can kind of see where it's going, it's like
in some ways, and I haven't really thought of this,
but like I think in some ways, like when you're
letting the audien, like if you're like letting the breadcrumbs there,
(25:40):
and the audience can kind of fill it in some
ways like like oh wow, like they kind of they
put it together themselves, and that becomes a darker ending
as opposed to or becomes a much more like meaningful,
powerful ending than like spelling it out. And a lot
of credit goes to to my partner because she and
I worked on that together, figure that out, and she
kind of suggests some stuff and it made that ending
(26:03):
a lot better. But like going through the process, like
I kind of insituated before, it's like you're kind of
shocked that she's doing this, and you kind of know
that like from what I hoped was from an audience
going in and you've kind of been sending where this
at the beginning of this where it's like they're going
(26:24):
in and you know they know Star Wars and they
know where this is going to go, and they're going
to like see this person realize that, like, oh, I
need to help the Jedi because we know as an
audience where what's actually happening. You and I know that
that Palpatine orchestrated this thing, that millions of Jedi have
(26:45):
been killed across the galaxy because of this, like you know,
rise to power on Palpatine's part, like the Sith or
I have finally you know, become a scendant. We know
that these characters don't, so like we go in with
this expectation of like how they're they we think this
(27:06):
character should feel. But like you, what I hoped was,
because you're living through this with her and you're feeling it,
you can sort of be like, yes, I know objectively
in quotes that she is the villain in this story,
but subjectively, through this experience, through the story, she is
(27:30):
a hero. She is she is the prote she is
the protagonist of the story. And you know, I hoped
that like you just came out feeling like okay, right, No,
she made the right decision for herself. Even though I
disagree with that decision, you hopefully are like, you know,
I agree, I agree with her from her point of
view about what she's done, not necessarily you agree with her, right,
(27:55):
You're not like good choice, it's gonna yeah, you know,
writing it was interesting. It was just like what's been
fascinating for me as a writer is when the characters
start taking over, you know, and I I've talked about
this elsewhere, and I've talked about like in other places
(28:16):
where like when you're a writer. I was talking with
someone who just is like, yeah, like sometimes the characters
just make decisions that you don't want them to do,
and they she couldn't understand, like, but there you're writing it,
like shouldn't you know? And it's like, well, yes, but
(28:36):
there's a weird sort of out of body experience when
you're writing it. You're just like you're kind of following
them down that path that they're walking. And that was
kind of like that experience to answer your question, Like
the experience of writing was just like I'm following where
she's going to go. And every time, like there's a
few times I was just like, let me see if
I can make her choose something else. There's a couple
(28:57):
of drafts like not drafts, which I feel I didn't
feel it felt wrong for her because it was like
every time we tried to like to pull back or
act doubt it. Just it kept them feeling like, no,
that's not who this is wrong, Like it's wrong for
her character to even question, you know, at this point
in the story, whether it was the right thing for
(29:18):
her to do. So, yeah, so you.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
The title obviously being failing of the Light, it's a
very evocative title. Is this is is this a reference
to the Jedi Order? Is this something else?
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Entirely it's a it's a it's a feeling of like
the light lights out of the forest, failing of the
Light of the Jedi. You know, it is sort of
you know, if the in some ways it's meant to
and it's weird timing. Alex Damon mentioned this on a
on his on last Week in Star Wars a couple
of weeks ago. Is like where how like this story
(29:55):
acts as a as a kind of an epilogue to
the High Republic, which wasn't my intention because I didn't
know when things I mean, I you know, I don't
control when things are published, but it does it was
meant to be. It's sort of like a bit of
a like it was meant to be in some capacity
to coda to High Republic. It's just where the coincided.
(30:17):
That actually kind of plays like that. But it's like,
you know, if the light of the Jedi is at that,
that book is at their height. This is stories like
the at the nature of their their of the of
their existence.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
You know.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
This is when everything goes wrong. This is when it fails,
and it fails on a lots of different levels. It
fails on you know, they failed to see what's happening
around them with the with the Emperor, they failed to
see what's going on with you know, the Anakin, and
they ultimately failed themselves. They failed the Republic.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
You know.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
It's also you know, just the light is extinguishing. The
light has failed. So it's a lot it's I don't know.
There Sometimes it's weird with titles like you this one
was like this just felt right. It was like the
feeling of the light that just just felt right. And
then you start like sitting there and sitting back and
you understand why it felt right, and you start looking
(31:12):
at like, yeah, I'm saying this and I'm feeling that,
and like like even with this both with a veteran
and and the feeling of stories, I feel like that's
always been, and I hope it continues to be my
approach if I am lucky enough to do more Star Wars.
Is I'm like, oh I can say something with this.
I can do something like it's not just, it's not
(31:34):
just and I and I want to say, like very clearly,
like I I would love to do like a poppy
like zoom zoom pewpu story. I'm fascinated that like my
first two Star Wars book stories, out of the gate
are as as as like small and like but like
you know, impersonal as they are, Yeah, in a way
(31:59):
that I really expect because you look at like again
like where I started as a writer, and and the
stuff that I even met, like my fan fiction as
a kid was like people people, And then I'm like
writing this, like let's make Dexter gesture sad and let's
let's let's let's let's let's uh have this refuge, you know,
this this path of the open handed extremists like kill
(32:20):
the Jedi and not things they would have you know,
ever really uh expected to do. Yeah. So it's like
I realized, like I like, like Andre, you realize, like, oh,
I can say something with this with this franchise and
you know it's it's it's I don't know. Yeah, so
(32:41):
you don't realize because sometimes you don't realize what you're
saying until you're just going, like halfway through you're like, oh, oh, oh,
this is this is a very different story than I
anticipated because you I don't know, you realize you're saying
writing is cool, man, I don't know that's cool.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
So what do you want readers to take away from
this the failing of the Light? Is there a particular
message or theme that you're hoping to convey, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
It's it's I really want people, I hope to sort
of have an understanding of what it's like to live
through war, how extremism occurs. Uh. You know, you know,
I don't think like Jessa, for example, is a good person,
and for her perspective, she's doing everything right. And I
(33:29):
think it's easy sometimes for people this other, you know,
somewhat of a different religion or different faith, and not
really necessarily understand why they feel the way they feel
or how they've been put into certain certain situations. I
(33:50):
you know, I there's a lot of to happen in
this world right now that I feel like people have
been othered in in in really extreme ways for doing
nothing more than just living. And you know, sometimes you'll
sit there like, well, why do they, like why do
(34:11):
certain people feel this way about other people, about other religions,
other you know, faith groups, other like political parties, whatever,
and sort of giving insight into how something like that happens,
how someone can be like, you know, radicalized. You know,
I think that was like my biggest thing was like
(34:32):
I wanted to give insight into how someone who's done
literally nothing wrong in her life was radicalized. And you can,
I hope that if you're in reading it, you realize,
like again, she's for her everything she's done does at
(34:53):
the end is the right choice from her perspective. You know,
she no point in the story does anything necessarily wrong.
You know, she's not sitting there and you know, killing
puppies and she's not like going out and you know,
(35:15):
doing horrible things, but horrible things have been done to
her that no fault of her own causes her to
like go down a very a very dark path. And yeah,
giving into such someone like that, I'm hoping, you know,
there's a there was a I want to give face
(35:37):
two to someone like that. So you understand who that
who that feels that is, and you can feel for
them and understand them.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Adam totally flips the script on this one. He puts
us right in the shoes of a believer from the
path of the open Hand, and he shows us how
genuine faith, when mixed with trauma and fear, can actually
push someone down a radical path, even when they think
what they're doing is right. So this is where it
matters for all of us dads and moms out there,
(36:08):
because this is a really fantastic way to talk to
our kids about empathy, about the messy gray areas of morality,
and the real world impact of war on everyday people.
It's not just about Jedi versus separatists, and trust me,
the ending is intentionally thought provoking. It's practically begging for
(36:32):
a kitchen table discussion about choices and consequences and how
our beliefs shape everything that we do. So, if you
dug Adam's earlier Decks story, the Veteran from Return of
the jedis from a certain point of view, this one
is like It's dark mirror. Where the Veteran is about
finding hope, the failing of the light is really a
(36:54):
descent into darkness, and the contrast is really brilliant, especially
if you have older kids you want to discuss things
about some of these heavier things. It really does help
them see how Star Wars uses different perspectives to explore tough,
important lessons and get this. We even came up with
(37:16):
some conversation starters to get the ball rolling, so here
write these down if you need to. First, what would
you do if someone you trusted told you the Jedi
were the bad guys? Great conversation starter. Second, how can
we tell the difference between real conviction and just plain extremism?
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Third?
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Why do you think Star Wars bothers to show us
the cost of war on everyday people, regular folk? And
then if you're you know, lore loving dads out there
that grew up on legends and some of the old
school stuff, there's really a cool nod to legends with
synox poisoning. And then there's all these hyer Republic echoes
(37:59):
that give Revenge of this Ath a whole new layer
of meetings. So so dig into the story, discuss it
with your kids. It's perfect for those spot the reference
moments with your teens. So it goes without saying you
want to grab the latest issue of Star Wars Insider,
read Galactic Tales, The Failing of the Light, and then,
(38:20):
of course, make sure you're giving us a follow on
your favorite podcast app all the social channels. Share this
episode with any other Star Wars dads or parents out
there who need it. We'd love for them to be
a part of this Star Wars community. I think that's
going to do it for this week. May the Force
be with you.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Thank you for listening to Tattooine Suns, a Star Wars podcast.
Please subscribe and follow Tatooine Suns on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube,
or your favorite podcast app. Tatooine Suns regularly publishes thoughtful
articles intended to provoke conversation about the larger themes in
Star Wars. Go to tatooinesuns dot com explore further, and
(39:01):
May the Force be with you always.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
This podcast, website, and social media accounts are not endorsed
by the Walt Disney Company or Lucasfilm Limited, and it
is intended for entertainment purposes only. Star Wars, all names
and sounds, and any other Star Wars related items and
properties are trademarks of Lucasfilm Limited and its affiliates. All
original contents of this podcast and website is the intellectual
property of Tattooing Suns unless otherwise indicated.
Order sixty six has fallen, Coruscant is in shadow, and
in Adam Lanscarcia's new Star Wars insider tale, The Failing
of the Light, a true believer from the path of
the Open Hand faces a choice that'll make you question
who the hero really is. We're unpacking high Republic echoes,
(00:20):
the civilian costs of the Clone Wars, and a legend's
deep cut you'll spot if you know you're poisons. Adam Yeah,
he's the writer who gave Dex his moment in from
a certain point of view, Return of the Jedi, and
a big friend of this podcast joins us to explore
crafting one of the darkest Star Wars short stories we've
(00:41):
ever read. Star Wars Dad's This one is rich. Stay tuned.
This is Tatooine Sons.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Welcome to Tatowine's Sons, a Star Wars podcast, the only
fan podcast to name a Cannon Star Wars creature and
to be endorsed by the writer and director of The
Last Jedi, Ryan John. Get ready to explore a galaxy
far far away across the generations. Here is your host,
David the bow Tie Jedi Guy, along with his special guest,
(01:12):
Star Wars author Adam Lance Garcia.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
No, you will experience the full power of the dark Shy.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
All right, So this is the second thing you've done
official Star Wars stuff. Now we've got decks in there
from a certain point of view Return of the Jedi,
But now we are in this very particular corner of
the Star Wars galaxy. We're post Order sixty six, we're
on Corusant. What drew you into this this timeline in
(01:43):
this story.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Well, I mean, like most things, when it comes to
working with large ipe, you're kind of approached and they're like, hey,
we want to have a story set during this period,
or like we want we're looking for this kind of thing,
or we're looking for that kind of thing. And in
this case, you know, Lucasm came to me via Star
(02:05):
Wars Insider, my editor Chris Cooper. We're like, hey, we
hear you're good, you know, which is always nice to hear.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
We're we're looking for sort of a Revenge of the
Sith adjacent story, something sort of like not necessarily from
a certain point of view for Revenge of the Sith,
but we want something that sort of set during Revenge
of the Sith to time with this sort of like
overall you know, twentieth annivers fary sort of initiative that
they've been doing. And they asked for a bunch of pitches,
(02:33):
and you know, in typical fashion when it comes to
me and Star Wars, they're like, uh, you know, they're like,
just send us three and I send them five. You know,
the I won't cut into the ones that I pitched
that weren't picked, but you know, the number one choice
was what eventually became the Failing of the Light. Uh.
It was the one that really intrigued me because I'm
(02:57):
a big fan of the High Republic. I mean, I
think if anyone knows me both like in my public
life and in my private life, I'm a huge Star
Wars book fan. Not just like obviously a Star War fan,
like full stop. But if you're watching this on video,
you can see some of the books behind me. That's
literally some of the books. Like I need to buy
more bookshelves, but I have like a closet full of legends,
(03:21):
like a near complete collection of legends, a basically a
complete collection of canon, tons of reference books. You know,
Star Wars print is a store's pros. More specifically, is
something that really maybe you want to become a writer.
When I was a kid, you know, I read The
Glove Glove of Darth Vader as my first sort of
intro into Star Wars pros and I'm obsessed with it
(03:45):
and more in more recent terms, the High Republic has
been something that's really spoken to me. You know. I
say that both as a as a fan first and
a writer second, because I think with the Higher Republic
it's and I've said this elsewhere and I'll say it again.
The more content we got within the Higher Republic, the
(04:07):
more context to give to the prequel era, to the
Secret Era, to the original trilogy. It was a really
interesting era that they opened up, partially because they introduced
new Force religions, you know, that was sort of already
insinuated and implied with the Church of the Force and
the Force Awakens. But what is really fascinating with the
(04:30):
Higher Republic is the pathy open hand. For me at least,
that was something that was introduced in Phase two by
Justina Ireland and Tessa Grattin. That was really just like
this idea that there's this extreme view of the Force
that it cannot be touched or used at all, and
you know, it was like, okay, well, like how does
how would that religion feel or the ardence of that
(04:53):
religion to feel when Order sixty six happens. How would
they feel during the clone wars? And how would that
like an actolade of that faith react to seeing all this?
And it's just it. It opened up a lot of
really interesting narrative ideas, a lot of really interesting thematic ideas.
(05:13):
So that was that was just the one I really
gravitated towards. It was really excited about when I was
when the idea came to me. It was one that
I came up to really quickly and was I was
pleasantly shocked, but not shocked that they were like, oh,
this is the one we want you to do, partially
like I sent it to my agent first and we're like,
(05:33):
we were like, this is the strongest one. We've put
it first, and we were just like we knew it
was a strong one. But again, I'm still kind of
shocking to let me say, tell the story because of
of what happens. Yeah, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Dark with it. We're going to get to that for sure,
and it's.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah, No, I mean, I I find it interesting. I
mean I was. I've said this on Blue Sky, and
but I think it is one of those. I think
it's an interesting sort of like counterpoint to Dexter Jester
where to the Veteran, where I think it's that story
is all about finding hope, like crawling out of the
(06:15):
darkness and finding hope. This one is sort of like
it is also about finding hope, but it is the
darkest version of that because of this the main character's
point of view. It's a really interesting and version of
the other. And they sort of like they're they're not
they're not to meant to be, you know, in conversation
with each other, but they're also kind of in conversation
(06:35):
with each other. I kind of see them as like
sort of like inverse, like you know, you to see
this character like sort of like fall deeper dark and
darknes into darkness where you and felling of the light,
whereas in the Veteran you sort of see someone calm
like rise their way out of depression or begin to
they can find their roy out of depression. But yeah,
(06:57):
it's a very it's a really dark story. And I
swear to God, I'm not this darkened person.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I know, which is why it's so it's so fascinating
to get to and I'm reading it, I'm like, oh,
this person's gonna there there, you know, this character is
going to come out of this. They're gonna, They're gonna
this is actually they're going to see the perspective of
this padawan and hear the stories of what this padawan
has gone through, and it's going to bring them, you know,
(07:23):
to the light instead they go. You know, it's pretty
obviously and I know, you know, you mentioned when we
were when we were you know, conversing about this and
I'm Blue Scotty. You were talking about the fact that,
you know, this is a little more vague than the
original intention or the original idea for it with the story,
but it's it's like, oh my gosh, that's the way
this story is really ending, yeah with it? What I mean,
(07:45):
was there ever a chance where you were thinking we
were going in a different direction with it or yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I think so. In the initial pitch it was kind
of like this it was ambiguous, like will she be
tempted to light or will she choose darkness? And I
I don't know how certain I was about what's this?
What direction Jessa Core would take. I felt like it
really could have. It was a kind of a coin
(08:11):
flip when I first started writing, But as the story progressed,
and really when I got to the paragraph when she
makes the choice, it became very clear like this was
what which what this is what was true for her?
And you know, I think that's something you know, you
can say, like, oh, she's going to like make this
choice for the Light. You have to understand from her
(08:33):
point of view, she did.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
She's making that choice.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yeah, she's making the right choice based on the indoctrination
that she's you know, had because of the religion that
she has. For for her, this was the own This
is the right choice. This is the one that she
needed to do. There was no other version of this
(09:00):
for her, Like she had to make this dark, dark
choice because it was like again like for her, for
her faith. It's like that was it was true.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It's just fascinating as a character because she's not a Jedi.
She's not said, you know, she's part of this. She's
got this really deep seated belief system with her. And
it's almost like you could almost or at least for me,
thinking back at the story and and and Jessa, that's
how it's printed, jessha.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I will say, and I've said this elsewhere, like I
pronounced them a certain way, so I'm not even sure
how to pronounce because they're I will never I will never,
I will never prescribe. I will try not to. I'm
sure that won't always be true. But I won't always
sit there and be like to fans like lays it
this way, because it's just like until Like it's also
(09:45):
I have to be conscious of the fact that like
these are not ultimately not my choice, you know, like
I'm very lucky to play with these action figures and
put them back in the box, you know, but I'm
I'm not going to be the like, let's say what
it would be so cool if like Jessa shows up
in you know, a movie someday. I doubt that would
be really cool, but like, you know, the lucasfilm might
(10:08):
decide this is how they pronounce it. You know. It's
like it's like when we you and I were like
coming up in a coarse scant and now it's corusn't
you know. So I want to sit here and say
like this there's the right wrong way, like I might pronounce.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
It this way.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
You could take that as as canon your way, Yeah, exactly,
until such time as Lucasim decides what they sound like,
I will, I will let the fans decide what how
to pronounce their names.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
That's a it's a very balanced, h and healthy approach
towards that.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
But you were saying with Jessa, like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
What kind of did you do any research into like
colts or belief systems or anything like this? As you
were you know, you've got mother tune and nap. I'm
gonna assume as a way to do this. The path
of the open hand obviously is established in the High Republic.
But did you like research the because again, this is
this is her belief, like she's fully vested in this.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I mean, I I didn't do any specific research into
cults for this story. But I've always been really fascinated
by different faiths. I mean partly because I am My
mother is Jewish, my father was Catholic, so I come
from a mixed faith home. So just being sort of
conscious and acknowledging of each different religion and sort of
(11:28):
being respectful of that has been sort of ingrained in me. So,
like I read a lot about I've read a lot
about Islam. I've also read about scientology. I wrote, I
like to learn a lot about different different different faiths
and sort of how they manifest. I'm also I am
fascinated by cults in general. You know, there's a lot
of cults that of various degrees in the world, and
(11:52):
learning about like how they sort of twist someone's perspective
based on like their their faith, Like I like, just
just learning about sort of those extremists has always been
interesting for me. So I've already had that sort of
like baseline interest, like like you know how like Tony
girl Roy is like really into revolutions and like now
I could talk about it, and it's kind of like
(12:13):
for me, not that I am anywhere near good as
writer Tony Gilroy, but for me, there's sort of like, oh, hey,
I'm preparing for this, like this sort of story, like
it has been the lingering in the back of my mind.
And then you know, like I was just I reread
a lot. I read some stuff for the Path of
the Open Hand, both in Path of Vengines, I looked
through the character in Higher Republic Character Encyclopedia. I was
(12:34):
just like you know again, I have a lot of
reference books and sort of looking through what they've said
about canonically and Star Wars, both with Path of the
Open Hand and elsewhere. But yeah, I again it was
a sort of initial fascination with the idea of like
they are these people who just believe unequivocally like you
cannot touch the force, you know, you cannot do this thing,
(12:58):
and then just asking the question of like how they
would react, how they would feel to these different things.
And then like I was saying, when it comes to
the decision that Jessa makes and the story, you get
to a point where you know, you look at all
the experiences she's had, both living through the Clone Wars
(13:19):
and then experience like her experience on Coruscant, and from
her perspective and her sort of life experience, would see
the Jedi as something that should be feared and hated.
But then you have, like again, all of her life experience,
(13:40):
all of the indoctrination that Mother Tunette sort of like
put into her when she hears about what happened to
the Jedi. Instead, and I will be honest, like again,
I didn't know how she was going to react, utilt
her let her react it was very much like she's
heard all this, so how she would she process it?
And for her, h just said like, oh, no, I'm
(14:03):
this is what they've done. They've they've used it for
so much like it destroyed them, so clearly we need
to like completely wipe them out so no more children
can be hurt. It just felt true for her. It
felt true for the faith on the path that you
open hand and also tied in thematically with Revenge of
the Sith, which was I think, which you know, which
(14:24):
was the the the the the ask of the beginning
was to write something that was set in Revenge of
the Sith, so you want to match the themes and
the tone.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, and it's it really does also dig into the
Clone Wars in a really visceral way, right with the
civilian cost With this, did you intentionally set out to
explore some of the moral ambiguities of that conflict, kind
of the beyond the usual Jedi versus separatists narrative and
that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I think what the interest what was interesting about the
Clone Wars. I think we've seen so much from the
perspective of the Jedi, from the perspective of the clones,
but you look at like how war affects the people
in its path, you know. I mean you could look
at anything from recent recent history to you know, world
(15:16):
history where it is you know, the people who suffer
the most aren't necessarily the people who are calling for
the war, who are fighting on the like. And not
to say that people don't suffer on the front lines,
but you definitely see what it does to the people,
(15:37):
the innocence and the civilians. And I had not really
seen that explored in the in Star Wars and the
Clone Wars, and I thought this was an interesting way
to like sort of have a way in but also
sort of like give give her Jess like a reasonable
understanding as to why she feels this way, Like you
(15:57):
could you can understand Base and her experience, what happened,
and why she would feel the way she feels. So
it kind of like goes all working in concerts.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
So, yeah, that's awesome. So we've got synox poison from this.
That's some serious Star Wars legends. Ye lore right, What
was that like when you when you kind of wanted
to bring that into the story. What was that like
from a from a writing perspective for you being a
fan of Legends growing up reading all this stuff, the
(16:26):
Old Republic stuff and all that, and also bringing that
into this because this is the first time that's that's
appeared in as far as.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I'm aware, yeah, as far as the canon, and like
you know, again, like we'll see, like ultimately where things
fall in canon. I always want to be like careful,
Like you know, there's no like there's like a there's
not such as a teer list as there used to
be in Legends, but like you know, ultimately, like what
is really canon will be defined by by lucasfilm. Because
(16:54):
even like you know, as much as like Tony Gilroyd
was really good about playing nice in absolutely the really
nice about playing within the Canyon, there are some things
excuse me that he sort of picked picked and choosed
here and there, which is totally understandable and is right
with that. But like with picking up Sinnox, it was
like I needed a poison, you know, and I wanted
(17:17):
to like give something sort of definitive, and I was thought,
like I could come up with something, but you know,
you start going through the list of like what poisons
are out there, you know, you start like you did
go into Wikipedia or like look on the in stars
encyclopedias and like, all right, like which ones are they?
Which is the one that felt right? And again it
was like Synox was like it wasn't in another story,
(17:37):
so I'm like, oh, well, like I can put it
in here. It felt nice, and I think, like what
I I what I'm trying to do with what I've
done hopefully with the Veteran and what I've hopefully done
without fan the Light is you know, I I want
to bring in those elements from legends here and there,
but like in a way that's not like like for example,
like the Battle of Almatana, which I think that's how
(17:58):
it's pronounced, you know, like that is I want I'm like,
all right, that that happened in the like in legends,
let me see if I can sort of bring that
into Cannon. And I was like, it was like, let
me see if I can. You know, I think because
it's like it's there and like it's the planet was
canonized with Jason Fry's recent update on the maps, I'm like, okay,
(18:20):
it's there. Definitely there was actually came out afterwards. I'm like, great,
I'm good. I know it's interesting, Like I think when
I'm bringing in Legends stuff, I don't know. I I'm
very careful about that because I don't want to ever
like I don't plan on it if I'm ever lucky
to do more Star Wars, Like I would never sit
(18:42):
there and like rewrite a story that I've read as
a kid, like because my feeling is like I've read
that story, it's fun, it's sitting there right now on
my shelf. I don't want to revisit it. I want
to do something new. But if I'm going to bring
something from Legends, I want to be like elements and
plots and plots me elements like uh like you know,
(19:03):
like references to it, you know, certain things that like
or morphous or like you know, like props and things
like that, just some sort of like because just to
build out the world a bit more.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
I I'm very careful when I come to bring in
stuff with Legends, because you just you don't want to
do like you know, I'm not gonna be like a
maniac and like bring back like yours cyboth into a
story you know, like as it like is. For a
number of reasons. One I think that like there are.
There are a lot of reasons why I will say this.
(19:37):
I think from there as certain legends of references, like
I almost had whale bonds in uh in the Veteran.
Whale dons mean a lot to me because again Glove
of Darth Vader or the first story I ever read,
and that meant a lot to me.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Zoraida Cardrova actually brought that into into canon a few uh,
a couple of years after me, after I tried. But
the reason I didn't put it in it was into
the Veteran. It was because it meant a lot to me.
It meant so much to me. It meant nothing to
Dexter Jester. They meant nothing to the end. And Sinox
(20:11):
was one of those examples where like it'll mean something
to certain readers they're like, oh my god, that's from legends,
but for most it's like it was. It was like,
this is clearly a poison that sounds like a poison name,
and it feels right for this story. You know, I
never wanted to just be you know, like with the
Joys Sea Bioth, I can never pronounce Sea Bioth. That's
(20:35):
how Zhon told me to pronounce it, like I would
never bring him in for the reasons. One because it's
like it means a lot to me, That story means
a lot to me, so I I personally don't want
to revisit it. It's he as a character might not
necessarily mean anything to the characters and the story, and
he'll meet a lot to the audience. But again, if
(20:58):
he doesn't mean anything to the characters and a story
and don't are not additive to the story, then why
am I going to include him? So that's like what
the Syknox Again, it was clearly poison. If you knew it,
it's a legends reference, all better for you. If you don't,
it doesn't matter. What matters is for Jessa. This is
(21:20):
a poison, and it's a clearly a deadly poison. If
you know how deadly it is, then it even better.
But it's it has to be any legends reference, any
legend reference I put into a story, at least, this
is my mindset has to be. It needs to feel
true to the characters and the story you're reading at
(21:43):
that moment. If I'm putting the myself or the audience first,
then those references mean will feel hollow. Whereas here it
feels visceral and real. At least that's my hope.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Risa, here's a survivor of Order sixty six. What was
your approach to writing about a Jedi padawan who had
witnessed all of that trauma and bringing that into this.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
The seems like, well, it's funny because like part of
it is I believe I like story. I like the
idea that Order sixty six jet has wiped out most
of the Jedi. I think that's just an interesting narrative choice.
You know, I think there there are some post Jedi
that I think really have resonated with me. So I
(22:36):
don't think it's like a binary choice of like they're
just needs to be Obi Wan and Yoda. But I
like it when it's really small, when like the when
we just know that, like it's just a handful of
Jedi left, and by the time Luke, you know, becomes
the last Jedi, he is the last Jedi. I just
think that's cool from a narrative standpoint. So that part
(22:58):
of that is, like, you know, like I I'm if
I'm going to introduce the survivor' already sixty six, I'm
probably gonna kill them off pretty quickly. But also I
think it was interesting like because we've seen you know
again I looked at Revenge of the Sith, and you
looked at like all the material that's come out since,
like an Obian Kenobi and even in the Mandalorian or
(23:20):
look above with that for that matter, and you can
kind of see that sense of how terrifying it was.
And again drawing upon real life events which I won't
really get into specifics, but like what it feels like
to have something like that happened in a place that
should be safe would be terrifying, And I think it
(23:40):
was just for me to be it was just narratively
interesting to see a Jedi who we have this sort
of like certain perspective on, like he's gonna be the
one that's going to like there the fight to the
last minute there, but there's like has to be Jedi
who ran who were terrified, because what is it like
to see, you know, these people that you thought were
(24:01):
like your your brothers, like all of a sudden turning
their weapons upon you. What did it like to see
like this this you know, shadowed figure with burning red
eyes and the lightsaber coming after you and just cutting
down children or younglings. What does it feel like? And
that's terrifying. That's it's genuinely very very terrifying.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
So is it was?
Speaker 3 (24:24):
It just felt real if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, it's good. Obviously there's the big ending of this
or their Jesu's face with this big decision, and it
kind of does feel like she's she's trying to decide
how to end this story on this How did you
approach writing that internal conflict and knowing that for some
people that are reading this, they're gonna they're gonna love
(24:47):
this ending. They're gonna think these actions are justified. Others
might see her as being a villain. What was that like?
Writing that ending that way?
Speaker 3 (24:54):
It was interesting because, like were the original draft was
a little bit more explicit, where in the original draft
she like breaks open the jogan pit and pours in
the liquid into the like and it's like, you know,
breaks it open, and it's like, yeah, she's gonna do it.
The sort of it's weirdly like the indecision, the sort
of ambiguity of it actually made it darker somehow. It
(25:18):
just sort of like is now like I think it
it It forces the audience, It forces the reader to
fill in the blank, and I think, you know, since
they can kind of see where it's going, it's like
in some ways, and I haven't really thought of this,
but like I think in some ways, like when you're
letting the audien, like if you're like letting the breadcrumbs there,
(25:40):
and the audience can kind of fill it in some
ways like like oh wow, like they kind of they
put it together themselves, and that becomes a darker ending
as opposed to or becomes a much more like meaningful,
powerful ending than like spelling it out. And a lot
of credit goes to to my partner because she and
I worked on that together, figure that out, and she
kind of suggests some stuff and it made that ending
(26:03):
a lot better. But like going through the process, like
I kind of insituated before, it's like you're kind of
shocked that she's doing this, and you kind of know
that like from what I hoped was from an audience
going in and you've kind of been sending where this
at the beginning of this where it's like they're going
(26:24):
in and you know they know Star Wars and they
know where this is going to go, and they're going
to like see this person realize that, like, oh, I
need to help the Jedi because we know as an
audience where what's actually happening. You and I know that
that Palpatine orchestrated this thing, that millions of Jedi have
(26:45):
been killed across the galaxy because of this, like you know,
rise to power on Palpatine's part, like the Sith or
I have finally you know, become a scendant. We know
that these characters don't, so like we go in with
this expectation of like how they're they we think this
(27:06):
character should feel. But like you, what I hoped was,
because you're living through this with her and you're feeling it,
you can sort of be like, yes, I know objectively
in quotes that she is the villain in this story,
but subjectively, through this experience, through the story, she is
(27:30):
a hero. She is she is the prote she is
the protagonist of the story. And you know, I hoped
that like you just came out feeling like okay, right, No,
she made the right decision for herself. Even though I
disagree with that decision, you hopefully are like, you know,
I agree, I agree with her from her point of
view about what she's done, not necessarily you agree with her, right,
(27:55):
You're not like good choice, it's gonna yeah, you know,
writing it was interesting. It was just like what's been
fascinating for me as a writer is when the characters
start taking over, you know, and I I've talked about
this elsewhere, and I've talked about like in other places
(28:16):
where like when you're a writer. I was talking with
someone who just is like, yeah, like sometimes the characters
just make decisions that you don't want them to do,
and they she couldn't understand, like, but there you're writing it,
like shouldn't you know? And it's like, well, yes, but
(28:36):
there's a weird sort of out of body experience when
you're writing it. You're just like you're kind of following
them down that path that they're walking. And that was
kind of like that experience to answer your question, Like
the experience of writing was just like I'm following where
she's going to go. And every time, like there's a
few times I was just like, let me see if
I can make her choose something else. There's a couple
(28:57):
of drafts like not drafts, which I feel I didn't
feel it felt wrong for her because it was like
every time we tried to like to pull back or
act doubt it. Just it kept them feeling like, no,
that's not who this is wrong, Like it's wrong for
her character to even question, you know, at this point
in the story, whether it was the right thing for
(29:18):
her to do. So, yeah, so you.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
The title obviously being failing of the Light, it's a
very evocative title. Is this is is this a reference
to the Jedi Order? Is this something else?
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Entirely it's a it's a it's a feeling of like
the light lights out of the forest, failing of the
Light of the Jedi. You know, it is sort of
you know, if the in some ways it's meant to
and it's weird timing. Alex Damon mentioned this on a
on his on last Week in Star Wars a couple
of weeks ago. Is like where how like this story
(29:55):
acts as a as a kind of an epilogue to
the High Republic, which wasn't my intention because I didn't
know when things I mean, I you know, I don't
control when things are published, but it does it was
meant to be. It's sort of like a bit of
a like it was meant to be in some capacity
to coda to High Republic. It's just where the coincided.
(30:17):
That actually kind of plays like that. But it's like,
you know, if the light of the Jedi is at that,
that book is at their height. This is stories like
the at the nature of their their of the of
their existence.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
You know.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
This is when everything goes wrong. This is when it fails,
and it fails on a lots of different levels. It
fails on you know, they failed to see what's happening
around them with the with the Emperor, they failed to
see what's going on with you know, the Anakin, and
they ultimately failed themselves. They failed the Republic.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
You know.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
It's also you know, just the light is extinguishing. The
light has failed. So it's a lot it's I don't know.
There Sometimes it's weird with titles like you this one
was like this just felt right. It was like the
feeling of the light that just just felt right. And
then you start like sitting there and sitting back and
you understand why it felt right, and you start looking
(31:12):
at like, yeah, I'm saying this and I'm feeling that,
and like like even with this both with a veteran
and and the feeling of stories, I feel like that's
always been, and I hope it continues to be my
approach if I am lucky enough to do more Star Wars.
Is I'm like, oh I can say something with this.
I can do something like it's not just, it's not
(31:34):
just and I and I want to say, like very clearly,
like I I would love to do like a poppy
like zoom zoom pewpu story. I'm fascinated that like my
first two Star Wars book stories, out of the gate
are as as as like small and like but like
you know, impersonal as they are, Yeah, in a way
(31:59):
that I really expect because you look at like again
like where I started as a writer, and and the
stuff that I even met, like my fan fiction as
a kid was like people people, And then I'm like
writing this, like let's make Dexter gesture sad and let's
let's let's let's let's let's uh have this refuge, you know,
this this path of the open handed extremists like kill
(32:20):
the Jedi and not things they would have you know,
ever really uh expected to do. Yeah. So it's like
I realized, like I like, like Andre, you realize, like, oh,
I can say something with this with this franchise and
you know it's it's it's I don't know. Yeah, so
(32:41):
you don't realize because sometimes you don't realize what you're
saying until you're just going, like halfway through you're like, oh, oh, oh,
this is this is a very different story than I
anticipated because you I don't know, you realize you're saying
writing is cool, man, I don't know that's cool.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
So what do you want readers to take away from
this the failing of the Light? Is there a particular
message or theme that you're hoping to convey, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
It's it's I really want people, I hope to sort
of have an understanding of what it's like to live
through war, how extremism occurs. Uh. You know, you know,
I don't think like Jessa, for example, is a good person,
and for her perspective, she's doing everything right. And I
(33:29):
think it's easy sometimes for people this other, you know,
somewhat of a different religion or different faith, and not
really necessarily understand why they feel the way they feel
or how they've been put into certain certain situations. I
(33:50):
you know, I there's a lot of to happen in
this world right now that I feel like people have
been othered in in in really extreme ways for doing
nothing more than just living. And you know, sometimes you'll
sit there like, well, why do they, like why do
(34:11):
certain people feel this way about other people, about other religions,
other you know, faith groups, other like political parties, whatever,
and sort of giving insight into how something like that happens,
how someone can be like, you know, radicalized. You know,
I think that was like my biggest thing was like
(34:32):
I wanted to give insight into how someone who's done
literally nothing wrong in her life was radicalized. And you can,
I hope that if you're in reading it, you realize,
like again, she's for her everything she's done does at
(34:53):
the end is the right choice from her perspective. You know,
she no point in the story does anything necessarily wrong.
You know, she's not sitting there and you know, killing
puppies and she's not like going out and you know,
(35:15):
doing horrible things, but horrible things have been done to
her that no fault of her own causes her to
like go down a very a very dark path. And yeah,
giving into such someone like that, I'm hoping, you know,
there's a there was a I want to give face
(35:37):
two to someone like that. So you understand who that
who that feels that is, and you can feel for
them and understand them.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Adam totally flips the script on this one. He puts
us right in the shoes of a believer from the
path of the open Hand, and he shows us how
genuine faith, when mixed with trauma and fear, can actually
push someone down a radical path, even when they think
what they're doing is right. So this is where it
matters for all of us dads and moms out there,
(36:08):
because this is a really fantastic way to talk to
our kids about empathy, about the messy gray areas of morality,
and the real world impact of war on everyday people.
It's not just about Jedi versus separatists, and trust me,
the ending is intentionally thought provoking. It's practically begging for
(36:32):
a kitchen table discussion about choices and consequences and how
our beliefs shape everything that we do. So, if you
dug Adam's earlier Decks story, the Veteran from Return of
the jedis from a certain point of view, this one
is like It's dark mirror. Where the Veteran is about
finding hope, the failing of the light is really a
(36:54):
descent into darkness, and the contrast is really brilliant, especially
if you have older kids you want to discuss things
about some of these heavier things. It really does help
them see how Star Wars uses different perspectives to explore tough,
important lessons and get this. We even came up with
(37:16):
some conversation starters to get the ball rolling, so here
write these down if you need to. First, what would
you do if someone you trusted told you the Jedi
were the bad guys? Great conversation starter. Second, how can
we tell the difference between real conviction and just plain extremism?
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Third?
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Why do you think Star Wars bothers to show us
the cost of war on everyday people, regular folk? And
then if you're you know, lore loving dads out there
that grew up on legends and some of the old
school stuff, there's really a cool nod to legends with
synox poisoning. And then there's all these hyer Republic echoes
(37:59):
that give Revenge of this Ath a whole new layer
of meetings. So so dig into the story, discuss it
with your kids. It's perfect for those spot the reference
moments with your teens. So it goes without saying you
want to grab the latest issue of Star Wars Insider,
read Galactic Tales, The Failing of the Light, and then,
(38:20):
of course, make sure you're giving us a follow on
your favorite podcast app all the social channels. Share this
episode with any other Star Wars dads or parents out
there who need it. We'd love for them to be
a part of this Star Wars community. I think that's
going to do it for this week. May the Force
be with you.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Thank you for listening to Tattooine Suns, a Star Wars podcast.
Please subscribe and follow Tatooine Suns on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube,
or your favorite podcast app. Tatooine Suns regularly publishes thoughtful
articles intended to provoke conversation about the larger themes in
Star Wars. Go to tatooinesuns dot com explore further, and
(39:01):
May the Force be with you always.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
This podcast, website, and social media accounts are not endorsed
by the Walt Disney Company or Lucasfilm Limited, and it
is intended for entertainment purposes only. Star Wars, all names
and sounds, and any other Star Wars related items and
properties are trademarks of Lucasfilm Limited and its affiliates. All
original contents of this podcast and website is the intellectual
property of Tattooing Suns unless otherwise indicated.
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