June 27, 2025 • 10 mins
Hamilton Ward is a cinematographer based in Charlotte, North Carolina. His work has been featured across the Southeast at festivals and platforms like Indie Grits, The Bitter Southerner, and the Southern Documentary Fund, among others. His latest documentary, Smile for the Dead, took him overseas, continuing his passion for capturing powerful stories on camera. Hamilton’s work focuses on storytelling and exploring the unknown, always driven by curiosity and a love for the craft.Highlights from Toby Gribben's Friday afternoon show on Shout Radio. Featuring chat with top showbiz guests. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to thank God. It's Toby Highlights, the podcast version
of my radio show. We've got a cracking interview coming
up for you, and remember, if you want the full
unfeltered chaos, you can catch thank God It's Toby Live
every Friday afternoon from three on Shout Radio. But enough
(00:22):
of the plugging, let's get on with the interview. Start
back wee right, thank God It's Toby. A Cast recommends
podcasts we love. Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
This is Jenny from Redroom podcast, where we go down
a rabbit hole every single Monday. This season, we are
investigating the world of bad influencers, from digital cults to
crypto scams, all the way down to broadsters. The online
world has never been so full of flyers. If you're
a fan of true crime, called deep dives, or just
the weirder side of things, I think you'll love the show.
(00:56):
Search for Redroom wherever you get your podcasts, and join
me down the rabbit hole.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
A Cast is home to the world's best podcasts, including
the critically acclaimed West Cork and the one you're listening
to right now. Hamilton Ward is a cinematographer whose films
have been shown throughout the Southeast, including Indie Grets, The
Bitter Southerner, and his latest documentary entitled Smile for the Dead,
(01:27):
and Hamilton is on the line with us here just now,
how are you today?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I'm doing really well. How about yourself?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Excellent? Thank you. Now, this documentary, A Smile for the
Dad is kind of about the story of William H. Mummler.
So what was it that drew you to his story?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I think what drew me first is I've always been
interested in the paranormal in photography, and so when I
discovered his work of these spirit photos in the mid
to late eighteen hundred, what captivated me was that they
could never figure out how he made these photos. And
so when I started digging into it, I'm like, well,
(02:08):
surely now they know how he made the photos, and
no one seemed to have a clear answer. And that's
kind of a d because I love a good mystery.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, that's fascinating. And do you think that Moehler's work
is maybe even more intriguing today because we're in a
world there we're surely like anything is possible, and yet
we still don't know how we did that exact exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I mean, I think you've hit it right there, because
you know, we're able to create images with a few
clicks of a button now, and we're still not able
to figure out how he did this this process, and
you know, the film kind of explores some possibilities of
how he might have done it. But what's really kind
of captivating is that the best photographers of the day
(02:56):
would watch him throughout each process and they could figure wow.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
And the documentary not only looks at how he created
these images, but also of why they captivated people. So
what do you think was the biggest driving force behind
their appeal?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Well, I mean, you know, it was right after the
Civil War and so in America, so you know, people
were grieving. The country was grieving, and you know a
lot of people looked to spiritualism at the time because
they had lost so many loved ones. And so he
came out with these photographs at the right time when
(03:37):
the nation needed a way to handle their grief, and
so they latched onto him, and he made a ton
of money off of these photos, you know, because people
wanted to see their loved ones in them.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, and you traveled as well to film this documentary,
So what kind of places did you go to and
which one of them was most I guess memorable or
maybe the most important for the documentary.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Oh sure, yeah, I mean yeah, I traveled up and
down the eastern coast of the United States and we
actually went into Canada, into Montreal, and I think probably
the most important place we went to was in New
York Rochester, New York, where we got to film this
(04:29):
photographer who does all of these older processes, Mark Osterman,
and he is such a fascinating character. I love being
around him. We got to spend two days with him.
He went through the process that Mumbler did and it
was just so magical watching him do it, you know,
seeing the same things that Mumler would have done. That
(04:49):
was really exciting. But Montreal is just gorgeous. I mean
that was just such an enchanting city. I fell in
love with that city.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah. And was there anything that was quite surprising that
you learned when you were making the documentary?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yeah, I mean there was, I mean one of the
big things. I really don't want to give away too
much of the of the film, Yeah, but there is
a bit of a turn where the film takes and
some new information that came out that I kind of
shine a light on and that that, to me, I
think opened up. While it answered some questions, I feel
like it, you know, opened up more questions, and I
(05:26):
feel like we're getting close to figuring out how he
might have done it.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Absolutely, And you include interviews as well with photographers and
historians and paranormal investigators. Did any of them sort of
challenge your own perspective on spirit photography?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I mean, I I don't. I mean, that's a really
good question, you know. For me, I went into this
film with an open mind. You know, I wasn't leaning
one way or the other. I even thought that, you know,
what if these were real ghosts, you know, that one
of the things that I went into here with. So
I wouldn't say that they challenged me because I left
myself so open. But they raised some some good questions
(06:09):
I think for the audience, and also about how we
deal with grief, not just you know, back then, but
how we deal with grief now and why you know,
we as a people are so fascinated with ghosts and
with spirit photography as well.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Absolutely, And how did you, you know, visually approach capturing
the sort of eerie and mysterious tour of the subject matter.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Sure, Yeah, I mean that's another great question. Yeah. I
mean for me, you know, I watched a lot of
my my favorite films. You know, I think that's what
a lot of people do, uh, I would first start
making films, they watch their favorite dps and try and
get inspired by that. But I also I there's an
There was a morning where I woke up and you know,
(07:03):
we're in the early phases of shooting, and there was
this heavy fog, like the heaviest fog I've ever seen
where I live in North Carolina, and I went out
there and I shot some footage, and it was it
was almost like a sign that you know, I'm on
the right path. It was a really weirdly spiritual experience
(07:23):
being out there with a camera and shooting this this wonderful,
foggy footage, and that kind of really dictated a lot
of how it was shot.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, and who do you think will enjoy this film
the most? I mean, is it hestory buffs or paranormal enthusiasts,
or photography fans, or maybe all of the above.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
I mean, I hope it's all of the above. You know.
I tried to create as wide of a.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I don't know, not a patchwork, but I really wanted
to kind of throw the net out there, you know,
because I myself am a photographer. I love ghost I
love history, and so you know, this was such a
dream project for me to touch on all those things.
So I'm hoping that people that are interested in any
of those things will take some enjoyment from them.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Absolutely, And do you have any plans to continue exploring
similar ideas in future projects?
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yeah, I mean definitely, And I think Mumler's story is
not done by any means. You know, I'd love to
continue investigating him. I'd love to continue investigating, you know,
other topics that really interests me, because that's sort of
what drives art, you know, in my mind is the questions,
you know, the mystery. And I have such a fun
(08:47):
time doing it, and I hope that comes through in
this film, that people get to see the sort of
enjoyment and fun that I have because it was a
journey and an adventure. Yeah, it was really wonderful.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah. Well, where will we be able to watch Smile
for the Dead or buy it?
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Sure? Yeah, No, Smile for the Dead is available on
Amazon Prime right now. You can rent it or buy
it from Amazon Prime. And we're also going to be
on PBS around Halloween. Some more information is going to
be coming out around that, but Halloween twenty twenty five,
it should be on PBS.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
That's exciting. Well. In the meantime, where can we keep
up to date with you as well? Do you have
any like social media pages or website and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Sure, yeah, no, I definitely do. I'm on Instagram, let's see.
I guess that'd be the easiest way to get mostly
on Instagram, but please reach out to me there. My
tag is ham on rye vvry, so please you can
reach out to me on there. That'd probably be the
(09:56):
easiest way for people to get in touch with me
if they want to talk about the film.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Brilliant. Well, many thanks for Johnny as today. It's been
great to have you on the show.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Thank you so much. I can't thank you enough for
having me and for asking such such great questions too.
I really appreciate that Fridays for celebration, good times and relaxation.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So turn the radio up and just listen. Listen. If
you've got that Fridday feeling, you.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Soon beat that's in on the ceiling, and I'll because
of your host, Tommy.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Grandma, I guess so brilliant. The music's fantastic, Tommy is terrific,
and the speech is a classic. Soon, let's reached now heights.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
It's start though, we can right.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Thank god it's Toby
Welcome to thank God. It's Toby Highlights, the podcast version
of my radio show. We've got a cracking interview coming
up for you, and remember, if you want the full
unfeltered chaos, you can catch thank God It's Toby Live
every Friday afternoon from three on Shout Radio. But enough
(00:22):
of the plugging, let's get on with the interview. Start
back wee right, thank God It's Toby. A Cast recommends
podcasts we love. Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
This is Jenny from Redroom podcast, where we go down
a rabbit hole every single Monday. This season, we are
investigating the world of bad influencers, from digital cults to
crypto scams, all the way down to broadsters. The online
world has never been so full of flyers. If you're
a fan of true crime, called deep dives, or just
the weirder side of things, I think you'll love the show.
(00:56):
Search for Redroom wherever you get your podcasts, and join
me down the rabbit hole.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
A Cast is home to the world's best podcasts, including
the critically acclaimed West Cork and the one you're listening
to right now. Hamilton Ward is a cinematographer whose films
have been shown throughout the Southeast, including Indie Grets, The
Bitter Southerner, and his latest documentary entitled Smile for the Dead,
(01:27):
and Hamilton is on the line with us here just now,
how are you today?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I'm doing really well. How about yourself?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Excellent? Thank you. Now, this documentary, A Smile for the
Dad is kind of about the story of William H. Mummler.
So what was it that drew you to his story?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I think what drew me first is I've always been
interested in the paranormal in photography, and so when I
discovered his work of these spirit photos in the mid
to late eighteen hundred, what captivated me was that they
could never figure out how he made these photos. And
so when I started digging into it, I'm like, well,
(02:08):
surely now they know how he made the photos, and
no one seemed to have a clear answer. And that's
kind of a d because I love a good mystery.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, that's fascinating. And do you think that Moehler's work
is maybe even more intriguing today because we're in a
world there we're surely like anything is possible, and yet
we still don't know how we did that exact exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I mean, I think you've hit it right there, because
you know, we're able to create images with a few
clicks of a button now, and we're still not able
to figure out how he did this this process, and
you know, the film kind of explores some possibilities of
how he might have done it. But what's really kind
of captivating is that the best photographers of the day
(02:56):
would watch him throughout each process and they could figure wow.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
And the documentary not only looks at how he created
these images, but also of why they captivated people. So
what do you think was the biggest driving force behind
their appeal?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Well, I mean, you know, it was right after the
Civil War and so in America, so you know, people
were grieving. The country was grieving, and you know a
lot of people looked to spiritualism at the time because
they had lost so many loved ones. And so he
came out with these photographs at the right time when
(03:37):
the nation needed a way to handle their grief, and
so they latched onto him, and he made a ton
of money off of these photos, you know, because people
wanted to see their loved ones in them.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, and you traveled as well to film this documentary,
So what kind of places did you go to and
which one of them was most I guess memorable or
maybe the most important for the documentary.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Oh sure, yeah, I mean yeah, I traveled up and
down the eastern coast of the United States and we
actually went into Canada, into Montreal, and I think probably
the most important place we went to was in New
York Rochester, New York, where we got to film this
(04:29):
photographer who does all of these older processes, Mark Osterman,
and he is such a fascinating character. I love being
around him. We got to spend two days with him.
He went through the process that Mumbler did and it
was just so magical watching him do it, you know,
seeing the same things that Mumler would have done. That
(04:49):
was really exciting. But Montreal is just gorgeous. I mean
that was just such an enchanting city. I fell in
love with that city.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah. And was there anything that was quite surprising that
you learned when you were making the documentary?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yeah, I mean there was, I mean one of the
big things. I really don't want to give away too
much of the of the film, Yeah, but there is
a bit of a turn where the film takes and
some new information that came out that I kind of
shine a light on and that that, to me, I
think opened up. While it answered some questions, I feel
like it, you know, opened up more questions, and I
(05:26):
feel like we're getting close to figuring out how he
might have done it.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Absolutely, And you include interviews as well with photographers and
historians and paranormal investigators. Did any of them sort of
challenge your own perspective on spirit photography?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I mean, I I don't. I mean, that's a really
good question, you know. For me, I went into this
film with an open mind. You know, I wasn't leaning
one way or the other. I even thought that, you know,
what if these were real ghosts, you know, that one
of the things that I went into here with. So
I wouldn't say that they challenged me because I left
myself so open. But they raised some some good questions
(06:09):
I think for the audience, and also about how we
deal with grief, not just you know, back then, but
how we deal with grief now and why you know,
we as a people are so fascinated with ghosts and
with spirit photography as well.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Absolutely, And how did you, you know, visually approach capturing
the sort of eerie and mysterious tour of the subject matter.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Sure, Yeah, I mean that's another great question. Yeah. I
mean for me, you know, I watched a lot of
my my favorite films. You know, I think that's what
a lot of people do, uh, I would first start
making films, they watch their favorite dps and try and
get inspired by that. But I also I there's an
There was a morning where I woke up and you know,
(07:03):
we're in the early phases of shooting, and there was
this heavy fog, like the heaviest fog I've ever seen
where I live in North Carolina, and I went out
there and I shot some footage, and it was it
was almost like a sign that you know, I'm on
the right path. It was a really weirdly spiritual experience
(07:23):
being out there with a camera and shooting this this wonderful,
foggy footage, and that kind of really dictated a lot
of how it was shot.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, and who do you think will enjoy this film
the most? I mean, is it hestory buffs or paranormal enthusiasts,
or photography fans, or maybe all of the above.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
I mean, I hope it's all of the above. You know.
I tried to create as wide of a.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I don't know, not a patchwork, but I really wanted
to kind of throw the net out there, you know,
because I myself am a photographer. I love ghost I
love history, and so you know, this was such a
dream project for me to touch on all those things.
So I'm hoping that people that are interested in any
of those things will take some enjoyment from them.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Absolutely, And do you have any plans to continue exploring
similar ideas in future projects?
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yeah, I mean definitely, And I think Mumler's story is
not done by any means. You know, I'd love to
continue investigating him. I'd love to continue investigating, you know,
other topics that really interests me, because that's sort of
what drives art, you know, in my mind is the questions,
you know, the mystery. And I have such a fun
(08:47):
time doing it, and I hope that comes through in
this film, that people get to see the sort of
enjoyment and fun that I have because it was a
journey and an adventure. Yeah, it was really wonderful.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah. Well, where will we be able to watch Smile
for the Dead or buy it?
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Sure? Yeah, No, Smile for the Dead is available on
Amazon Prime right now. You can rent it or buy
it from Amazon Prime. And we're also going to be
on PBS around Halloween. Some more information is going to
be coming out around that, but Halloween twenty twenty five,
it should be on PBS.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
That's exciting. Well. In the meantime, where can we keep
up to date with you as well? Do you have
any like social media pages or website and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Sure, yeah, no, I definitely do. I'm on Instagram, let's see.
I guess that'd be the easiest way to get mostly
on Instagram, but please reach out to me there. My
tag is ham on rye vvry, so please you can
reach out to me on there. That'd probably be the
(09:56):
easiest way for people to get in touch with me
if they want to talk about the film.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Brilliant. Well, many thanks for Johnny as today. It's been
great to have you on the show.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Thank you so much. I can't thank you enough for
having me and for asking such such great questions too.
I really appreciate that Fridays for celebration, good times and relaxation.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So turn the radio up and just listen. Listen. If
you've got that Fridday feeling, you.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Soon beat that's in on the ceiling, and I'll because
of your host, Tommy.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Grandma, I guess so brilliant. The music's fantastic, Tommy is terrific,
and the speech is a classic. Soon, let's reached now heights.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
It's start though, we can right.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Thank god it's Toby
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