July 11, 2025 • 17 mins
LeeAnn Mallorie is a leadership coach, embodiment expert, and founder of Guts & Grace and Leading in Motion. She helps driven, mission-led women lead with power and purpose, without burning out. Drawing on two decades of coaching experience and a deep commitment to body-based wisdom, LeeAnn teaches leaders how to reconnect with their intuition, reclaim their energy, and access their full potential.
Her latest book, Guts & Grace: A Woman’s Guide to Full-Bodied Leadership, offers a practical, embodied roadmap for women ready to break free from societal myths and lead with authenticity, resilience, and impact. Through her work, LeeAnn has supported leaders across industries and around the globe, helping them bridge the gap between performance and personal fulfilment.Highlights from Toby Gribben's Friday afternoon show on Shout Radio. Featuring chat with top showbiz guests. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Her latest book, Guts & Grace: A Woman’s Guide to Full-Bodied Leadership, offers a practical, embodied roadmap for women ready to break free from societal myths and lead with authenticity, resilience, and impact. Through her work, LeeAnn has supported leaders across industries and around the globe, helping them bridge the gap between performance and personal fulfilment.Highlights from Toby Gribben's Friday afternoon show on Shout Radio. Featuring chat with top showbiz guests. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Thank God It's Toby Highlights, the podcast version
of my radio show. We've got a cracking interview coming
up for you, and remember, if you want the full
unfeltered chaos, you can catch Thank God It's Toby Live
every Friday afternoon from three on Shout Radio. But enough
(00:22):
of the plugging. Let's get on with the interview stand weekend. Right,
thank God It's Toby.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
A Cast recommends podcasts.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
We love the Rain Raw podcast with Rob Heffernin and Laumanny,
your one stop shop for everything about life.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
I think of you every time I'm in the Bat's Wrong.
You mocked me every time the bat I think your
face mocking me because I have to turn over on
to me knees and get up like a heifer.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Every single time I feel mocked.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
It's pretty simple.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
If it goes on, it goes in. The Red Raw podcast, available.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Every Monday wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
A Cast is home to the world's best podcasts, including
the Blind Boy podcast, Ready to Be Real with You
Showing It, and the one You're listening to right Now.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Leanne Mallory is a leadership coach and author of Guts
and Grace. A women's guide to full bodied leadership, a
book that empowers driven women to lead with intuition, impact,
and resilience. And Leane is joining us here just now,
how are you today?
Speaker 5 (01:35):
I'm so well, Toby, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
So can you just start by giving us a brief
overview of the book itself?
Speaker 6 (01:42):
Absolutely so, Guts and Grace is a guide to embodied leadership.
For as you said, driven women are really anyone who
wants to get ahead in the workplace but isn't entirely
thrilled about doing it the old fashioned, quote unquote way.
Guts and Grace teaches women to listen to their bodies,
to listen to their tuitions, to follow their instincts in
a way that often our workplace culture trains us out of.
(02:04):
So what Gods in Grace does is it busts a
bunch of myths about how women should get ahead in
the workplace. In essence, it's really about looking at the
ways that we've been trained to try to get ahead
like men or just do business in the traditional way
that frankly actually pulls us away from our native superpowers.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
Now, everybody's built differently, so it's.
Speaker 6 (02:26):
Not that every woman shouldn't lead in a way that
a man's leading in the workplace. But the truth is
in Gods and Grace, it's like, we don't know if
that's true until you actually take a look at yourself
and ask the question is this right for me?
Speaker 5 (02:38):
Is this working for me?
Speaker 6 (02:40):
So each chapter of Gods and Grace actually gives a
different example of ways that we may have either self
betrayed or trained ourselves out of our.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
Native way of doing things.
Speaker 6 (02:50):
And then in each chapter there's an invitation to think
about and to try on, meaning in practice, actually do
something differently and see if it works better for you.
So as you go through the career of Goods and Grace,
it actually teaches you new ways to leverage your own
instincts as a leader, so that over the course of time,
as you work through the book, you are evolving your
(03:11):
leadership style to be something that's more authentic to you.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
And many leadership books will focus on mindset, but yours,
of course places a big emphasis on the body. So
why as embodiments or central to your message?
Speaker 5 (03:25):
You know, it's central in general.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
Toby I sort of teaching the work actually in twenty ten,
so this work has been around for a long time.
The book was published in twenty twenty, right in the
middle of the pandemic, and I think at that moment
in time, people could see that they were burning out right,
their bodies were breaking down. There were different things that
were happening where it's like, just thinking my way through
this is not going to get me there. But the
truth is our bodies have to catch up with our minds,
(03:50):
and so if you are trying to enhance your leadership
by just changing your mind, it's going to work in
a certain way.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Right.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Mindset is important.
Speaker 6 (03:58):
I actually studied with a lot of deep teachers of mindset,
including some of the students of the original author of
the book Mindset, So it's a huge part of how
I craft the work of Guts and Grace. But if
you're trying to override what your body is doing naturally
with your mind and you haven't actually done the work
to catch your body up with your changes in mindset,
(04:18):
then in a way, your two parts of yourself are
going to be working against yourself. So what I do
in Guts and Grace instead is I actually invite folks
to start with the body and then include the mindset
changes that they want to make But when you start
with the body, you actually go much faster because it's
not like I'm trying to drag my body along or
my mind is thinking differently, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And in the book you write openly about burning out
in your twenties, So was there a specific moment when
you knew that you were burnt out or was it
more of a slow realization.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
It was kind of a slow realization, But I actually
do have a specific moment. So I, like perhaps many
of your listeners, am just natively quite differently than people
tend to do things at work. I am a pretty
emotional being. I am a person who feels a lot,
and I think more and more the world is coming
to realize that it's not a tiny percent of the
(05:12):
population who are built this way. So what I found
in my original workplace when I was in my twenties
is that people never took breaks. Pretty commonly, people weren't
eating lunch. There was just not a lot of moments
to actually pause to feel yourself, to recover your energy,
this sort of a thing. And we were constantly in
client meetings back to back and all of this stuff. Now,
(05:33):
what I started to see was that I just felt dimmer,
and I felt lower, and I felt tired, and I
felt drained. And actually what happened was that I realized
there was an opportunity to go across the street and
take a fitness class once a week. And when I
had this thought, everything in my entire being was like,
I can breathe again if I do that. And so
that was an indication to me how far I had
(05:55):
come from some things that seemed small that I should
just be able to give myself but seemed like almost
you know, another planet to do that at that moment
in time. So I actually was able to negotiate something
that hadn't been done in the workplace before, which created
a precedent for other people to make that same kind
of request. And in so doing I started to find
(06:15):
that when my body and you know, something that brought
me back into my body was present, all the other
decisions I made over the course of the day were better.
And that was the beginning of really coming into relationship
with with this work.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And burnout is still a huge gesture. So what's one
practical step that a leader could take today to start
turning that around, and maybe not just for themselves, but
for their team, it's like.
Speaker 6 (06:39):
The question of the hour and the decade, end of
the century, right, And I love when you know it's like,
what's one practical step. I'm just gonna say the thing
I always say, but it doesn't sound like enough. But
the thing is it is if you really do it,
which is listen to your body period. So how do
you operationalize that? What does that actually mean? What it
(07:00):
means is if you're like sitting there and you're like, wow,
I kind of need a snack, and you're like, but
I'm not going to get that snack because I'm going
to write one more email. That little tiny moment of
override added up over time every single hour, every single
day is why we're burned out. And so if you
just start doing the thing that your body is telling
(07:22):
you to do more of the time, maybe you do
it twenty percent of the time when you were doing
at zero percent of the time before that actually starts
to lead you toward choices overtime that will unravel burnout.
There may be other things to do, but the thing is,
if you start there, you will know the other things
to do. Because I can't actually tell any given person
(07:45):
I do executive coaching for a living. So every person
the acupuncture needle of what's the right thing to do
to unravel their burnout is different, but universally, if they
start listening.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
A Cast recommend podcasts.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
We love the Red Raw podcast with Rob Heffernin and
Laurel Manny, your one stop shop for everything about life.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
I think of you every time I'm in the bat wrong.
You mocked me. Every time time the bat I think
your face mocking me because I have to turn over
onto me n and get up like a heifer.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Every single time.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I feel mocked.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
It's pretty simple. If it goes on, it goes in
The Red Raw podcast, available.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Every Monday wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
A cast is home to the world's best podcasts, including
the Blind Boy Podcast, Ready to Be Real with Sheila
Show Again, and the one you're listening to right now.
Speaker 6 (08:44):
They're gonna eventually come up to that answer, but we've
trained ourselves not to listen, and so we have to
untrain ourselves to override to actually know what's the thing
that's most gonna solve it for you. So that's not
an easy answer, but it is a simple answer. It's
just kind of the one thing that we don't think
we can do or we don't want to do.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
What are some of the most common patterns or traps
that you see women leaders falling into and how does
your book help them break them?
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Yep, I'll give you a couple.
Speaker 6 (09:14):
So one of my clients actually, when she came to me,
just said, you know, I grit my way through everything.
And grit is such a popular word. We love grit
and I love grit too, right, everybody loves her.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
You won't have grit.
Speaker 6 (09:26):
You want to be able to quote unquote be resilient
and have grit. And then the problem with that is
some moments call for grit, some moments call for powering through,
some moment's call for that, and some moments call for
something else. If you're gritting your way through in a
job that you should have left a year ago, where
are you going to find yourself? You're going to find
yourself continuing to push on something that's like you're pushing
(09:48):
a brick wall.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
It's not going to move right.
Speaker 6 (09:50):
And so one of the patterns that I would say
is really common when folks come to me is that
they don't have an embodied capacity to quit to surrender,
to let go something like that, which is why the
book is called Guts and Grace, because on one hand,
we need guts, on the other hand, we might need
something different than guts, which is a move that is
the right move in certain situations. And so one thing
(10:13):
that I would say is I'm often working with folks
to balance their relationship with grit and bring in other
moves that are the moves that they need at a
certain time. Often, let's say, if it's a time of
either loss or a time of they need to let
go of something to really be able to get to
the next level. Another common example to be honest is
(10:33):
not feeling emotions. It's interesting, I would say, in the
workplace right now, it's a little different with men and women,
Like I think we've finally entered a phase or like
a man who's willing to feel his feelings at work,
everybody's like, yes, we love him, like please promote this guy, right,
But for women it's still a little bit tenuous in
terms of the accolades if you will, or like the
praise we do or don't get for feeling things. But again,
(10:56):
the problem is if there are things that we're experiencing
as fear, and we don't allow ourselves to feel them.
One we're creating again, more burnout because it's a lot
of effort to contain and not feel something that you're
feeling really strongly.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
It's like I have to.
Speaker 6 (11:12):
Quench my jaw, hold my breath, clamp down, and all
of that adds up to I'm exhausted, and I may
not even know why, because maybe I'm so practiced at
not feeling that I don't even realize there's something I
need to feel. But the other side of the coin
of that is for everyone, for every human being, and
for women in particular, the raw power that comes from
(11:32):
a raw emotion is actually what helps us to move
things forward. So if I'm angry about something, it doesn't
mean I should go blow up at somebody at work.
But if I don't even know that I'm angry, then
I can't feel the fire to advocate for something, or
to make a different choice, or to call that meeting
and get people together and have people So the numbing
(11:53):
of our emotions, I would say, is another pattern that
I tend to work with folks to unravel in a
healthy and helpful way because most of us if we're
not feeling them, It's like, what's going to happen if
I do that? Or maybe we sometimes blow up and
we've seen the wreckage that creates. So it's like building
a more healthy relationship with emotions is a pretty key
door way to being a fully embodied leader.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
And you work with women in all kinds of industries,
from finance to tech to nonprofits. So is there one
surprising thing that they all tend to have in common
underneath the service?
Speaker 5 (12:24):
That's a great question, it's true. So you know, I
started my career.
Speaker 6 (12:28):
At an organization where we were working with leaders in
all different sectors, and that's always been the case in
terms of who I work with, And people are often
surprised if they come to one of our events. For example,
often in leadership we're opting into a mastermind or a
training program with a lot of people from our industry.
What happens when we get these folks together is that
they're able to cross pollinate ideas. A lot of innovation
(12:51):
happens because what's happening in one sector may inform another.
I think the thing that we tend to see underneath
really is this same about the right kind of workplace
culture that we've all opted into to some extent unconsciously
and certainly an embodied way. So back to where I started,
meaning more or less, everybody has opted into the conscious
(13:16):
or unconscious belief that grit is the best way to be.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
In the workplace.
Speaker 6 (13:20):
Whether I'm in the nonprofit sector and I like mentally
criticize that and I'm kind of like working against certain
you know, policies or practices, I'm still running the same
grit and burnout paradigm, probably because it's still how I've
learned or how people are getting things done.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
You know.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
Certainly, if I'm in finance, maybe I'm more wearing it
like a badge of honor. And in maybe the nonprofit sector,
I'm like, I shouldn't be doing this, but you know,
secretly I'm still doing it. So how we're being with it?
But I think we're all, if you will, in a
long moment of needing to divest to some extent from
the myths about a human as a machine that we
(14:00):
can just constantly use and use and.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Use and use and overuse our bodies.
Speaker 6 (14:04):
It's like we're practicing that everywhere unless we've really actively
worked to unravel that in each of our own individual beings.
When we do, though, then we can become leaders that
inspire or create a different kind of culture.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Who did you write the book for exactly? I mean,
was there a specific woman or kind of leader you
had in mind as you were writing it?
Speaker 6 (14:23):
You know, in a way I wrote it for myself
and for my mom, But that archetype really was originally
in the original formulation of the work. Someone who doesn't
necessarily acknowledge their needs because there's just not time or
there's too many demands, and so there's this capacity to
be like a superwoman or like a camel in the desert,
(14:45):
and at some point I've gone so far into the
desert that I've a bit forgotten or lost too, I
really am. That's really who the book is for, and
you know, we may not all relate to that exactly
in the same way. But if there's some part of
myself that got left behind, or there's some way that
I have so successfully tended and shown up for the
(15:07):
needs of everybody else that I might be feeling a
bit either exhausted or lost, or maybe I don't even
realize that's happening, But then something breaks down in my life,
and I'm like, oh, maybe I got a little far
from home.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Well, if you could give your twenty five year old
self just one sentence from the book, which would it be,
Oh wow.
Speaker 6 (15:27):
I'm not sure where I wrote it in the book,
but I'm sure more than once. And the sentence would be,
You're not crazy. Because there's so much about especially when
we're young and we enter the workplace, it's like something
feels off, but everyone's like, no, this is just the
way that it's done.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
This is normal. And my client is like, but I
think it should be different.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
And so the thing that I would want to say
to her and to anyone who's listening, is you're not crazy.
If it feels off, go with that and see where
that takes you.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Well, do you have plans to write any more books
after this one?
Speaker 5 (15:58):
Oh my goodness, such a great question. Yes I do,
but not in the near term.
Speaker 6 (16:03):
One of them is probably a distillation of a curriculum
we teach called activity, which is a process of releasing, receiving,
and then realizing your next level vision and your next
level of self expression as a leader. But I've also
always wanted to write a book on body centered innovation
and I'm not so public, so you're kind of hearing
(16:24):
it here first, stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Oh that's exciting. Well, in the meantime, where are we
able to find this book, Guts and Grace, A Woman's
Guide to Full Bodied Leadership.
Speaker 6 (16:33):
You can find it on our website gots Grace dot
com backslash book. Also, we post a lot about it
on Instagram at Lian Mallory, and the book is available
for purchase on Amazon as well.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Brilliant, Well, many thanks for joining us. It's been great
having you on the show today.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
Thank you, Toby. It's been great to be here.
Speaker 7 (16:53):
Fridays for celebration, good times and relaxation. So turn the
radio up and just listen. Listen. If you've got that
Freddie feeling, you'll soon beat Tensing on the ceiling, and
all because of your host, Toby. Grandma, I guess some
brilliant Atom Music's fantastic. Tony is terrific and the speeture
is a classic sum its reach now hides it's not
(17:16):
though we can right, Thank god, it's Toby
Welcome to Thank God It's Toby Highlights, the podcast version
of my radio show. We've got a cracking interview coming
up for you, and remember, if you want the full
unfeltered chaos, you can catch Thank God It's Toby Live
every Friday afternoon from three on Shout Radio. But enough
(00:22):
of the plugging. Let's get on with the interview stand weekend. Right,
thank God It's Toby.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
A Cast recommends podcasts.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
We love the Rain Raw podcast with Rob Heffernin and Laumanny,
your one stop shop for everything about life.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
I think of you every time I'm in the Bat's Wrong.
You mocked me every time the bat I think your
face mocking me because I have to turn over on
to me knees and get up like a heifer.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Every single time I feel mocked.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
It's pretty simple.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
If it goes on, it goes in. The Red Raw podcast, available.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Every Monday wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
A Cast is home to the world's best podcasts, including
the Blind Boy podcast, Ready to Be Real with You
Showing It, and the one You're listening to right Now.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Leanne Mallory is a leadership coach and author of Guts
and Grace. A women's guide to full bodied leadership, a
book that empowers driven women to lead with intuition, impact,
and resilience. And Leane is joining us here just now,
how are you today?
Speaker 5 (01:35):
I'm so well, Toby, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
So can you just start by giving us a brief
overview of the book itself?
Speaker 6 (01:42):
Absolutely so, Guts and Grace is a guide to embodied leadership.
For as you said, driven women are really anyone who
wants to get ahead in the workplace but isn't entirely
thrilled about doing it the old fashioned, quote unquote way.
Guts and Grace teaches women to listen to their bodies,
to listen to their tuitions, to follow their instincts in
a way that often our workplace culture trains us out of.
(02:04):
So what Gods in Grace does is it busts a
bunch of myths about how women should get ahead in
the workplace. In essence, it's really about looking at the
ways that we've been trained to try to get ahead
like men or just do business in the traditional way
that frankly actually pulls us away from our native superpowers.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
Now, everybody's built differently, so it's.
Speaker 6 (02:26):
Not that every woman shouldn't lead in a way that
a man's leading in the workplace. But the truth is
in Gods and Grace, it's like, we don't know if
that's true until you actually take a look at yourself
and ask the question is this right for me?
Speaker 5 (02:38):
Is this working for me?
Speaker 6 (02:40):
So each chapter of Gods and Grace actually gives a
different example of ways that we may have either self
betrayed or trained ourselves out of our.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
Native way of doing things.
Speaker 6 (02:50):
And then in each chapter there's an invitation to think
about and to try on, meaning in practice, actually do
something differently and see if it works better for you.
So as you go through the career of Goods and Grace,
it actually teaches you new ways to leverage your own
instincts as a leader, so that over the course of time,
as you work through the book, you are evolving your
(03:11):
leadership style to be something that's more authentic to you.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
And many leadership books will focus on mindset, but yours,
of course places a big emphasis on the body. So
why as embodiments or central to your message?
Speaker 5 (03:25):
You know, it's central in general.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
Toby I sort of teaching the work actually in twenty ten,
so this work has been around for a long time.
The book was published in twenty twenty, right in the
middle of the pandemic, and I think at that moment
in time, people could see that they were burning out right,
their bodies were breaking down. There were different things that
were happening where it's like, just thinking my way through
this is not going to get me there. But the
truth is our bodies have to catch up with our minds,
(03:50):
and so if you are trying to enhance your leadership
by just changing your mind, it's going to work in
a certain way.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Right.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Mindset is important.
Speaker 6 (03:58):
I actually studied with a lot of deep teachers of mindset,
including some of the students of the original author of
the book Mindset, So it's a huge part of how
I craft the work of Guts and Grace. But if
you're trying to override what your body is doing naturally
with your mind and you haven't actually done the work
to catch your body up with your changes in mindset,
(04:18):
then in a way, your two parts of yourself are
going to be working against yourself. So what I do
in Guts and Grace instead is I actually invite folks
to start with the body and then include the mindset
changes that they want to make But when you start
with the body, you actually go much faster because it's
not like I'm trying to drag my body along or
my mind is thinking differently, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And in the book you write openly about burning out
in your twenties, So was there a specific moment when
you knew that you were burnt out or was it
more of a slow realization.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
It was kind of a slow realization, But I actually
do have a specific moment. So I, like perhaps many
of your listeners, am just natively quite differently than people
tend to do things at work. I am a pretty
emotional being. I am a person who feels a lot,
and I think more and more the world is coming
to realize that it's not a tiny percent of the
(05:12):
population who are built this way. So what I found
in my original workplace when I was in my twenties
is that people never took breaks. Pretty commonly, people weren't
eating lunch. There was just not a lot of moments
to actually pause to feel yourself, to recover your energy,
this sort of a thing. And we were constantly in
client meetings back to back and all of this stuff. Now,
(05:33):
what I started to see was that I just felt dimmer,
and I felt lower, and I felt tired, and I
felt drained. And actually what happened was that I realized
there was an opportunity to go across the street and
take a fitness class once a week. And when I
had this thought, everything in my entire being was like,
I can breathe again if I do that. And so
that was an indication to me how far I had
(05:55):
come from some things that seemed small that I should
just be able to give myself but seemed like almost
you know, another planet to do that at that moment
in time. So I actually was able to negotiate something
that hadn't been done in the workplace before, which created
a precedent for other people to make that same kind
of request. And in so doing I started to find
(06:15):
that when my body and you know, something that brought
me back into my body was present, all the other
decisions I made over the course of the day were better.
And that was the beginning of really coming into relationship
with with this work.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And burnout is still a huge gesture. So what's one
practical step that a leader could take today to start
turning that around, and maybe not just for themselves, but
for their team, it's like.
Speaker 6 (06:39):
The question of the hour and the decade, end of
the century, right, And I love when you know it's like,
what's one practical step. I'm just gonna say the thing
I always say, but it doesn't sound like enough. But
the thing is it is if you really do it,
which is listen to your body period. So how do
you operationalize that? What does that actually mean? What it
(07:00):
means is if you're like sitting there and you're like, wow,
I kind of need a snack, and you're like, but
I'm not going to get that snack because I'm going
to write one more email. That little tiny moment of
override added up over time every single hour, every single
day is why we're burned out. And so if you
just start doing the thing that your body is telling
(07:22):
you to do more of the time, maybe you do
it twenty percent of the time when you were doing
at zero percent of the time before that actually starts
to lead you toward choices overtime that will unravel burnout.
There may be other things to do, but the thing is,
if you start there, you will know the other things
to do. Because I can't actually tell any given person
(07:45):
I do executive coaching for a living. So every person
the acupuncture needle of what's the right thing to do
to unravel their burnout is different, but universally, if they
start listening.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
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Speaker 3 (08:01):
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Speaker 4 (08:08):
I think of you every time I'm in the bat wrong.
You mocked me. Every time time the bat I think
your face mocking me because I have to turn over
onto me n and get up like a heifer.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Every single time.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I feel mocked.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
It's pretty simple. If it goes on, it goes in
The Red Raw podcast, available.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Every Monday wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
A cast is home to the world's best podcasts, including
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Speaker 6 (08:44):
They're gonna eventually come up to that answer, but we've
trained ourselves not to listen, and so we have to
untrain ourselves to override to actually know what's the thing
that's most gonna solve it for you. So that's not
an easy answer, but it is a simple answer. It's
just kind of the one thing that we don't think
we can do or we don't want to do.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
What are some of the most common patterns or traps
that you see women leaders falling into and how does
your book help them break them?
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Yep, I'll give you a couple.
Speaker 6 (09:14):
So one of my clients actually, when she came to me,
just said, you know, I grit my way through everything.
And grit is such a popular word. We love grit
and I love grit too, right, everybody loves her.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
You won't have grit.
Speaker 6 (09:26):
You want to be able to quote unquote be resilient
and have grit. And then the problem with that is
some moments call for grit, some moments call for powering through,
some moment's call for that, and some moments call for
something else. If you're gritting your way through in a
job that you should have left a year ago, where
are you going to find yourself? You're going to find
yourself continuing to push on something that's like you're pushing
(09:48):
a brick wall.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
It's not going to move right.
Speaker 6 (09:50):
And so one of the patterns that I would say
is really common when folks come to me is that
they don't have an embodied capacity to quit to surrender,
to let go something like that, which is why the
book is called Guts and Grace, because on one hand,
we need guts, on the other hand, we might need
something different than guts, which is a move that is
the right move in certain situations. And so one thing
(10:13):
that I would say is I'm often working with folks
to balance their relationship with grit and bring in other
moves that are the moves that they need at a
certain time. Often, let's say, if it's a time of
either loss or a time of they need to let
go of something to really be able to get to
the next level. Another common example to be honest is
(10:33):
not feeling emotions. It's interesting, I would say, in the
workplace right now, it's a little different with men and women,
Like I think we've finally entered a phase or like
a man who's willing to feel his feelings at work,
everybody's like, yes, we love him, like please promote this guy, right,
But for women it's still a little bit tenuous in
terms of the accolades if you will, or like the
praise we do or don't get for feeling things. But again,
(10:56):
the problem is if there are things that we're experiencing
as fear, and we don't allow ourselves to feel them.
One we're creating again, more burnout because it's a lot
of effort to contain and not feel something that you're
feeling really strongly.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
It's like I have to.
Speaker 6 (11:12):
Quench my jaw, hold my breath, clamp down, and all
of that adds up to I'm exhausted, and I may
not even know why, because maybe I'm so practiced at
not feeling that I don't even realize there's something I
need to feel. But the other side of the coin
of that is for everyone, for every human being, and
for women in particular, the raw power that comes from
(11:32):
a raw emotion is actually what helps us to move
things forward. So if I'm angry about something, it doesn't
mean I should go blow up at somebody at work.
But if I don't even know that I'm angry, then
I can't feel the fire to advocate for something, or
to make a different choice, or to call that meeting
and get people together and have people So the numbing
(11:53):
of our emotions, I would say, is another pattern that
I tend to work with folks to unravel in a
healthy and helpful way because most of us if we're
not feeling them, It's like, what's going to happen if
I do that? Or maybe we sometimes blow up and
we've seen the wreckage that creates. So it's like building
a more healthy relationship with emotions is a pretty key
door way to being a fully embodied leader.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
And you work with women in all kinds of industries,
from finance to tech to nonprofits. So is there one
surprising thing that they all tend to have in common
underneath the service?
Speaker 5 (12:24):
That's a great question, it's true. So you know, I
started my career.
Speaker 6 (12:28):
At an organization where we were working with leaders in
all different sectors, and that's always been the case in
terms of who I work with, And people are often
surprised if they come to one of our events. For example,
often in leadership we're opting into a mastermind or a
training program with a lot of people from our industry.
What happens when we get these folks together is that
they're able to cross pollinate ideas. A lot of innovation
(12:51):
happens because what's happening in one sector may inform another.
I think the thing that we tend to see underneath
really is this same about the right kind of workplace
culture that we've all opted into to some extent unconsciously
and certainly an embodied way. So back to where I started,
meaning more or less, everybody has opted into the conscious
(13:16):
or unconscious belief that grit is the best way to be.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
In the workplace.
Speaker 6 (13:20):
Whether I'm in the nonprofit sector and I like mentally
criticize that and I'm kind of like working against certain
you know, policies or practices, I'm still running the same
grit and burnout paradigm, probably because it's still how I've
learned or how people are getting things done.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
You know.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
Certainly, if I'm in finance, maybe I'm more wearing it
like a badge of honor. And in maybe the nonprofit sector,
I'm like, I shouldn't be doing this, but you know,
secretly I'm still doing it. So how we're being with it?
But I think we're all, if you will, in a
long moment of needing to divest to some extent from
the myths about a human as a machine that we
(14:00):
can just constantly use and use and.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Use and use and overuse our bodies.
Speaker 6 (14:04):
It's like we're practicing that everywhere unless we've really actively
worked to unravel that in each of our own individual beings.
When we do, though, then we can become leaders that
inspire or create a different kind of culture.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Who did you write the book for exactly? I mean,
was there a specific woman or kind of leader you
had in mind as you were writing it?
Speaker 6 (14:23):
You know, in a way I wrote it for myself
and for my mom, But that archetype really was originally
in the original formulation of the work. Someone who doesn't
necessarily acknowledge their needs because there's just not time or
there's too many demands, and so there's this capacity to
be like a superwoman or like a camel in the desert,
(14:45):
and at some point I've gone so far into the
desert that I've a bit forgotten or lost too, I
really am. That's really who the book is for, and
you know, we may not all relate to that exactly
in the same way. But if there's some part of
myself that got left behind, or there's some way that
I have so successfully tended and shown up for the
(15:07):
needs of everybody else that I might be feeling a
bit either exhausted or lost, or maybe I don't even
realize that's happening, But then something breaks down in my life,
and I'm like, oh, maybe I got a little far
from home.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Well, if you could give your twenty five year old
self just one sentence from the book, which would it be,
Oh wow.
Speaker 6 (15:27):
I'm not sure where I wrote it in the book,
but I'm sure more than once. And the sentence would be,
You're not crazy. Because there's so much about especially when
we're young and we enter the workplace, it's like something
feels off, but everyone's like, no, this is just the
way that it's done.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
This is normal. And my client is like, but I
think it should be different.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
And so the thing that I would want to say
to her and to anyone who's listening, is you're not crazy.
If it feels off, go with that and see where
that takes you.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Well, do you have plans to write any more books
after this one?
Speaker 5 (15:58):
Oh my goodness, such a great question. Yes I do,
but not in the near term.
Speaker 6 (16:03):
One of them is probably a distillation of a curriculum
we teach called activity, which is a process of releasing, receiving,
and then realizing your next level vision and your next
level of self expression as a leader. But I've also
always wanted to write a book on body centered innovation
and I'm not so public, so you're kind of hearing
(16:24):
it here first, stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Oh that's exciting. Well, in the meantime, where are we
able to find this book, Guts and Grace, A Woman's
Guide to Full Bodied Leadership.
Speaker 6 (16:33):
You can find it on our website gots Grace dot
com backslash book. Also, we post a lot about it
on Instagram at Lian Mallory, and the book is available
for purchase on Amazon as well.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Brilliant, Well, many thanks for joining us. It's been great
having you on the show today.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
Thank you, Toby. It's been great to be here.
Speaker 7 (16:53):
Fridays for celebration, good times and relaxation. So turn the
radio up and just listen. Listen. If you've got that
Freddie feeling, you'll soon beat Tensing on the ceiling, and
all because of your host, Toby. Grandma, I guess some
brilliant Atom Music's fantastic. Tony is terrific and the speeture
is a classic sum its reach now hides it's not
(17:16):
though we can right, Thank god, it's Toby
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