10 Years Of TNM, What Are The Chances

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Welcome everybody. We are That's Not Metal and it's our
bloody birthday. Come on in, help yourself to a goodie
bag with some shitty, half squashed cake in it. Thank
you so much for joining us, everybody, because it is
a very special edition of That's Not Metal. Here because
this episode marks ten years of this very podcast. Ten
years ago this week, the very first episode of That's

(00:48):
No Metal was launched into an unsure world to try
and make a difference in giving people the unfiltered purely
done for the love of the game, coverage of rock
music that was lacking at the time, and ten years later,
hundreds upon hundreds of reviews later, hundreds of new bands,
hours upon hours of deep dives on the specials. However,

(01:10):
many ludicrous comments and giggles along the way, That's Not
Metal is still here doing our utmost to keep delivering
that same thing. It's a bit weird. We've not had
to throw a celebration like this before, but That's Not
Metal to day, as we find ourselves ten years on
from that launch, I'm Parentheish, Sam Dignon, Elliott Paisley and
Mark Sanderson have all gathered here together to reflect a

(01:34):
bit how is everybody doing.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, all good.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
It's odd, like, you know, reflecting on ten years of podcast,
when ten years got ours, you know, an eager listener,
like they're hanging off of like ay recommendation whent from
we talk about the bands. I liked all that, and
now I'm kind of like looking back on it from
this side of things is cool.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
Yeah, it's weird because similarly, I mean I was the
last to join up, So it's weird looking back on
the ten years. Where has the time gone on? For
seven of those? I say, I was just like one
of the listeners and I wasn't contributing at all in
any of that time. But yeah, it's so on one end,
it's strange looking back in that way. But I was
there as a listener from the very beginning. So even

(02:13):
just in my life, it's weird looking back and going like, wow,
I've been even before I was on it, like paying
attention to this podcast for I thought I can't do
the math forty percent of my life.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, But I mean the thing with that as well
is like Elliott, you say you were the last kind
of us to appear here. You've been doing this for
longer than you know, several other people in the history
of TNN. Sam, you've been doing it for like half
of those ten years.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
You've been That's insane to me that, yeah, Like, yeah,
I've been tied into this podcast for so long now,
Like Mark, you.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Have literally gotten here on a flight from Canada, where
you spent the last couple of weeks. You've arrived just
here today, especially for our tenth birtha extravaganza. How many
hours have you been awake?

Speaker 5 (02:57):
I've been awake thirty one hours.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
But this.

Speaker 5 (03:03):
Is the party of the century. I've got a lovely
red ball to keep me going.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah, even more than the free dirt in ill Share
you caught in Canada.

Speaker 5 (03:11):
Oh mate, I mean that could pun me for a week.
That show I was fucking buzzing. I love so much.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, so we are here. Maybe I'll put this out
on the Thursday, because September the fourth lines up just
too perfectly from that original episode. To be completely honest
with everyone, I felt a little bit weird about doing
this anniversary show in the run up to it because
you know, as you will be thinking if you were
a listener from day one, the elephant in the room
is that that original launch of That's No Metal. None

(03:42):
of us are on. So TNM is a podcast that
has changed hands and changed face. And I'm very proud
actually of our longevity because God knows, there are so
many times that TNM could have folded and stopped existing,
but together we've managed to keep it alive. And for
every person who maybe dropped off at some stage or another,
there is someone else out there who is really happy

(04:03):
that we kept it going. The latter camp basically being
everybody I imagine who is here listening to this episode.
So this is for you, and together you know, That's
Not Metal has become kind of bigger than any one
of us. But obviously, you know, we were not there
as the founders of That's Not Metal. We are looking
at this as ten years of you know, the entity
that is That's Not Metal. And while I knew we'd

(04:25):
have to acknowledge this milestone in some way, and you know,
people out there would be expecting us to not let
it just kind of like pass by, so we'd have
to do something. I felt a little conscious of inflating
ourselves too much, taking credit for something that we didn't start.
So really, what this is a celebration of ten years
looking back is you guys, the listeners, some of you
guys will have been there from that first episode. This is,

(04:47):
as you're saying, this is where we personally can cast
minds back to that time, remember, because we were there
as well, Sam, you and I one that's not Metal
pub Quiz in early twenty sixteen or something like if
the old mantra our show, your show means everything, then
we have been there and in that spirit, everyone out
there who has come with us over these years, really

(05:07):
this is for you, Like what ten years of TNM
means is ten years of support and enthusiasm, without which
we would have no reason to have kept going. And
as a result, this silly still totally DIY like without
any outside endorsements or support. We're not part of any
media network, we don't have any sponsorships. I edit every

(05:28):
single episode myself. We spring out of the shadows every
now and then to steal an award from Martin Kemple,
whatever happens. But by and large, this is, you know,
a one to one dialogue between us and you the
listeners that had been going for that time, and this
thing we get together and do every week is still here.
So happy ten years of that's not metal, everybody, I've

(05:49):
been doing this almost all of my adult life. What
gave me that fucking daft idea? And you know, for
as much as this podcast has changed in ten years,
you still hear the opin and the takes on here
that are inevitably sanded down by more mainstream rock media.
We have, as I was saying, all at this stage,
we've all put some years into this thing. Obviously of course,

(06:13):
to Terry Beezer the originator, to Stephen Hill, to Ryan
defrate Us and Alex Chillingworth, I love you guys. What
immense joy it was getting together with you guys every
week on our shared time on the show. Everybody who
has made that's not matter what it is these ten years,
we hailed the lot of you. So what have we
actually got planned today? Like I said, we knew we'd
have to do something because you guys out there had

(06:33):
clocked onto the fact that this anniversary was coming up
as well. And the natural thing to do if we're
recognizing it this week is to go back to that
very first episode and see what was going on Before
we get into that. I'll throw out a bit of
news from this week because as there's no rest from
the wicked. Mud Vein have put out their first song
in sixteen years, which meant I saw a few headlines

(06:55):
on the day saying mud Vein have put up their
first song in sixteen years, and then the world shrugged
and moved on Green Lung. We're doing a bit of
teasing this week saying they had the largest announcement their
career to date, and it turned out that they are
going to be headlining Desert Fest next year in Camden,
headlining the Roundhouse, which is cool. On a bill also
includes the Sword Earthless Truck Fighters. There's a nice little

(07:18):
story about how Green Lung basically formed at Desert Fest
ten years ago, so to be headlining it, that's very
good for them, very cool and I won't lie. The
main reason I have news in this episode at all
is because any Mark would be here, and following up
on some recent shows, the news that Deaf Leopard are
going to be doing a UK tour including you know,
several dates, including a Glasgow date. There will be Coca Cola,

(07:39):
there will be hot dogs. Your lighter will be in
the air. It needs to be in the air. How
are you feeling?

Speaker 5 (07:45):
Oh, I am so excited. I just bought tickets from
me and my mum this afternoon. The timing of this
is too much like after talking up how good I
reckon Death Leopard, and then seeing that announcement, I was like,
I can't not, I have to.

Speaker 4 (08:06):
Let's put it this way.

Speaker 5 (08:07):
My taste buds are absolutely lactating for a lovely bit
of cool a cooler.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah, and your lighter hasn't truly, it's been buried in
that pocket forever many years. And when love and hate collide,
it will be the moment.

Speaker 5 (08:19):
That might be the best moment of my life. I
reckon I love Clyde more than I love my own parents.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
One of whom will be enjoying.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
It will be an awkward moment.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
And also, Radiohead are coming back after seven years of
not playing shows. And I know that they've spent the
last couple of years kind of annoying everyone with their
takes on Israel, et cetera. But Elliott radio Head to
come back to play shows first time in a Yes,
they're doing four dates at the O two. I don't
know if you're I'm just sort of assuming you're in

(08:53):
a Radiohead fan, but like, you know, how how big
a news actually forgives in terms of their you know,
potential return.

Speaker 4 (09:00):
I mean it's pretty massive because Tom and I forget
the line. I think it's Tom and Johnny who are
the two ones I think you're saying people are annoyed
at They've been very busy in the Smile. I've ended
up being a pretty big popular There's been a few
Radiohead side projects along the way, but none of which
have really There's one with Flea, which is really bad.
But like, there's been some weird stuff along the way,

(09:22):
but the Smile ended up being kind of big, and
you know, people going, oh, if Radiohead aren't coming back,
at least we have this. I just kind of discounted
that Radiohead would ever come back there. They are the
kind of band who would just disappear and never come
back again. So it's like their first say seven years
and nine years since their last record. I'm only hearing
this for the first time now. I've completely missed this
news somehow, so this is my snap reaction. But wow, yep,

(09:47):
i'd like to go I've never seen Radiohead. I've heard
they're brilliant live, but fucking.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah, mad, yeah, I really like the Moonshake pooh as well.
Any follow up from that, I'd be okay with. Yeah,
I'll put the release round up out there as well,
maybe at the end of the show, because we don't
want to miss two weeks worth of releases for you lot.
But right now, let's go back ten years to the
very first episode of That's Not Metal, a very you know,

(10:13):
scrappy recording in the front room. I imagine diy one
hour and twenty two minute show. Imagine talking about ten
albums in one hour and twenty two minutes. But that
launched what we have here. What Bees and Steve did
for the first episode of T and M was twenty fifteen,
was more than halfway over at that point. They selected
ten albums, or in some cases I think some of

(10:35):
you guys listening may have pitched them the albums that
you wanted to hear them talk about that come out
over that year, just to share some thoughts about and
used that as you know, this is where heavy music
in twenty fifteen is right now. The world that TNM
was coming into was in those ten albums. The timing
of the launch of That's Not Metal, I must say,
seems very opportune in hindsight, just in terms of like

(10:56):
what there was out to talk about because past this
first episode, which you know, brought us up to speed
on what had happened over the previous few months. That
first months of reviews in September twenty fifteen saw the
release of That's the Spirit by Bringing the Horizon, The
Book of Souls by Iron Maiden, Aya by Parkway Drive,
Repentless by Slayer, The Wonder Years, the Black Dahlia Murder,

(11:18):
the kalloushr Ep from Creeper. The next month we had
Silence in the Snow by Trivium, Clutcher's Psychic Warfare Cohen
and Cambria's best album in years. Like That's Not Metal
was absolutely eating for important albums to talk about in
those first couple of months. I should hope that we
continue to get periods like that in the future. Even
with all that kind of spoken about and what was
picked for the releases, we realized going back and point

(11:40):
we pointed out No Meliora by Ghost even like chosen
amongst those releases to talk about, So there was stuff
about to really sync teeth into with the debut of
That's Not Metal. So we are going to go back
to those albums that were chosen to launch TNM are
thrown in a couple from the second episode as well,
because I think when people think about the very beginnings

(12:01):
of TNM, there's a couple of those other albums I
mentioned as well that seem so large it would feel
slightly incomplete for the tenth anniversary that if we didn't
include them. But we are looking back at the first
albums that ever got discussed on that's not metal, and
we're not re reviewing these albums because God knows, we
would need a lot longer than an hour and twenty
two minutes to pull apart these albums that every one

(12:22):
of them to some degree has some kind of legacy now. Also,
some of these albums are classics, but we are going
to cast our minds back to when they were coming out,
and we're gonna use these bands as sort of case
studies for how the decade progressed, since we are gonna
be thinking about where these bands are now, what this
album meant for them in their overall story, and through

(12:42):
them hopefully capturing some microcosm of the story of the
decade in TNM L. So So let's get into this.
I hope everybody's gonna join us for this as we
dive into the debut of That's Not Metal and twelve
album from the first couple of episodes that were the

(13:04):
world that TNM was born into. We're going to go
through them in the order they were pitching that very
first episode. So first up, so While She Sleeps and Brainwashed,
an album that we have spoken about of various times
over the last decade, because, as I say, if I
say some of these albums are classics, I think Brainwash
is one of the ones that most people would maybe
put in that category. While She Sleeped going into Brainwashed.

(13:26):
At the time this album was reviewed, they were the
young hopes, weren't they. They were, you know, a band
who on the debut had become kind of the hottest
band on the UK metal scene for a cycle.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
So yeah, they were also kind of on the sort
of like the fight back because obviously this is the
six AM cycle ended with them having to cut things
short as well as had to go for vocal surgery
and all of that, and it was kind of like,
oh could could they could this be a band whoor
you know?

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Cut short? Is their vocal is gonna lose it?

Speaker 3 (13:54):
And all that, and then you know, Brainwashed happens, and
everyone with a brain was like, nah, they're good.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (14:00):
There was sort of the thing that always happens with
young bands who are cocky also happened where people, by
the end of This Is the Six, started to not
that it was like a big movement, but people were
starting to be like, yeah, okay, let's see what you've got.
Then oh, you think you're all that? And then Brainwashed
fucking is a slapper and the chops it is so mad.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
The interesting thing with Brainwashed, though, is going back to
it and I remember and like I said, this is
an album that the while she sleeps, you know, hardcore
faithful over the years, it's the album I hear mentioned
the most now, like, actually more than this is the six,
I hear people talk about Brainwashed maybe the only other
album that people would put it up against as like
the potential best whiles she used this album would be

(14:45):
you are we dependent on you know if they kind
of prefer the metal or the melody or someone. But
at the time, and again how it was spoken about
on that first episode that's not metal the buzz in
sort of maybe the media wasn't there to the same
degree as This Is the Sixth kind of felt more
like a you know, an underdog sort of cult album
that hasn't over the decade become you know, renowned, And

(15:09):
I think, you know, it's ultimately again maybe which way
you go between that or U Are Wei or something,
But I would say a lot of us would say
it ultimately turned out to be the best album they'll
ever make, you know, like that we can't see them
going beyond the brainwash at this point in time, but
I think would you have to remember that again, it
wasn't the smash a media. They were everywhere like they
were on This Is the Six but kind of more

(15:30):
of the cult slow burn. And I think the conversation
with the music at the time was that it is
more kind of dense than than This Is the Six
to the point that you know, people that some people
at the time were even there's no songs on this,
you know, because it's kind of much more complex, shall
we say, than This Is six. It's certainly I think
heavier a lot of the time This Is the six,

(15:50):
which is already you know, that's the second heaviest well
she sleeps the album.

Speaker 4 (15:53):
Yes, it's interesting because that we're starting with this one
because arguably, if all the bands were talking about today
and all the records, there's maybe no greater chasm than
there is between the band then and the band now
in terms of like popularity and headline grabbing and like
scale of interest. While She Sleeps are much bigger than
they were in twenty fifteen. Well, like you're saying, they
were kind of on the Fight Back and some other

(16:13):
bands that sort of usurped them for that, you know,
Press Darling Prize or whatever. But you know, the last
record at least, and like maybe the couple before that
seems of and I thought, I don't think it's just
like necessarily us It seems to have sort of in
the critical or even a lot of their fans. A
lot of people seem to have soured on While She Sleeps.

(16:34):
I mean, I think I said at the time that
Self Help was maybe the worst down by a notable
band that I've reviewed on this show. So it's this
weird flip where they're bigger than ever and they're playing
some of their biggest shows. You know, they're Ali Pali
A couple of years ago, they're doing the Doncaster Domeic
later this year and all sorts of things like that,
but on music which doesn't seem to be inspiring that

(16:54):
many people brainwashed. On the other hand, you couldn't move
for someone trying to tell you how means it was.
And they were the band of their school where it's
like if you like Darkest Out, if you're like early
kill Switch, this is the band for you, which just
seems kind of nuts.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
I mean, this was like.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
The height of the the slightly you know, cringe side
of our shaps with the fans sort of stuff. But
this was where it was like it was a fan
movement they were doing, you know, for the launch of
this album. They were doing these DIY fan events where
it was all just kind of like we're going to
go to like a like an a skate park and
just so do acoustic sept like hand paint, screenprints, just

(17:31):
hang out with the fans and this created that sort
of buzz of like the Wilsheeps fans. So again, at
this point, I was, you know, doing the entire UK
tour for this album.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
I was so in on, like they were my favorite
band this moment.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
This is this ten years then of the infamous Welsh
Seeps Cantererbat Oth Break at All. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
They So that was in April of the year, so
it was just after the album came out, and that
The joke was that me and my sister, our favorite
bands at the time were While she Sleeps and Cants Bats,
and we said our ever towards together will do the
whole tour, and then they announced it together We're like, well,
it's only six days, we can do that and like
up and down the country watching while Sheeps Cancer backs
with the added bonus of discovering Oathbreaker off the back

(18:11):
of it.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
What a night out? What are six nights out?

Speaker 3 (18:14):
But yeah, like the sort of the fan culture and
kind of like barz around while Sheeps, Like on every
night of that tour, they were hanging out at merch
the moment they were finished playing.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
And again, these weren't small venues.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
This was you know, Kentish Town Forum was the the
ABC in Glasgow, wasn't it Mark.

Speaker 5 (18:30):
Yeah, yeah, THEREBC like.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
Like not small venues, but they were you know, just
helping generate this sort of like you are, like the
whole six thing with the fans all that, and it
was just an exciting time to sort of feel part
of something with abandon and it feel like more And
that's where even if you know the press weren't entirely
all in on it, the fans were. And again more
complex record, sure, but because of just the feeling and

(18:55):
the vibe around it, I think a lot of fans
you really wouldn't go with, like metcor that is maybe
as dense as brainwashed it is, got swept up in it.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, I mean over the years though, like I've noticed,
it's actually it's streamed higher than this is The six
overall in terms of like four Walls has twenty four
million Spotify streams, whereas the highest song when this is
the six, which I think is maybe seven Hills, has
about seven So it's really be really interesting thinking about again,
at the time this felt like the slightly more cult
follow up the people who know no to like this

(19:25):
breakout debut, but it has had maybe the longevity factor more.

Speaker 5 (19:31):
Yeah, maybe it's like a pinkertin Oh so you know, Yeah,
it's funny. I completely forgot the sort of how not
widely received this was because they are one of the
bands I just associate with my twenty fifteen because normally
was like that Cancer Bats while She Sleeps show the
first time I met you, Sam after being pals for

(19:53):
a while. But like I saw them so many times,
Like I was at that Cancer Bat show they played Inverness.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
I saw every festival they were at that summer.

Speaker 5 (20:02):
Basically, Yeah, they fucking owned bought for My Valentine on
their own tour, like they're just one of the bands
I associate with the year twenty fifteen.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, but that's what I mean. I think Brainwash has
become so particularly again if we're we can make this
very you know, self indulgent. This is the T and
M birthday party amongst the TNM hardcore audience. Brainwash is
so canonized, right, like the idea that anyone would do
it down compared to other wisesteach records is just like unfathomable.
But remembering that Tenans got at the time, they were

(20:35):
sort of like having to as you say, they're on
the fight back a little bit, He's true. And again
when I step Brainwashed on now, like imagining when Laws
had a vocal that harsh is like a different age.
Could you put it on? And he sounds so like
feral compared to again, the way that they've worked more
on the melodies than stuff in the year since. And
again this show and this sort of reflection, we are

(20:58):
dictated to a degree by you know, the albums that
were featured in that very first episode, because if this
had been you know, for example, Aya by Parkway Drive
in this slot, then we would have a very different story, right,
and we would talk about the mad decade that that
set them on, where that's their kind of you know,
breakthrough record into punching into more commercial areas and at

(21:18):
the time predicting what they would then go on to
do where they're now, you know, for every single part
of their stage show was on fire, et cetera, like
would be crazy. But as it happens, we've got While
She Sleeps in this slot, who released a fantastic record
and have released great records since this one. But the
way they felt like such a big deal going into
twenty fifteen compared to like Ellie was saying, kind of

(21:40):
maybe where they sort of sit now, it's it's a
marker of what a decade can do. So the second
album from the very first episode was actually the debut
album from Baby Metal, which is interesting because this album
came out in twenty fourteen. I know, it must have
had some sort of staggered release from you know, Japan
and so on because of how how it worked at

(22:00):
that point in time. But you know, we did a
twenty fourteen special last year, and we had like a
really long, involved, in depth conversation about basically this very
thing about the album itself and also about what a
kind of like unprecedented breaking new ground it brought, you know,
conversations into metal that metal heads weren't really prepared to

(22:24):
have yet, about idle culture and this sort of clash
of cultures and all this stuff that's going on. And
we spoke about the longevity of the band. So I
feel like we can maybe brush over some of that
stuff a little bit because we did it kind of
so recently and in so in depth on that twenty
fourteen special. I guess they must have had it in
this episode as a you know, like we're starting that's
not metal. This is something massive that's happened in our

(22:45):
kind of time, you know, not doing a show like this,
so let's you know, address a piece of metal culture.
But in terms of being a you know, sort of
a retrospective on a phenomena that happened at the time again.
In that first episode, it was definitely positioned as like
this is a new thing that no one understands yet
that has like taken the world by storm. It splits

(23:07):
people right down the middle. What do we make of it?
And I find that, to a degree is what's fascinating
ten years later in terms of discussion we can have
right here right now, because the idea of people rejecting
something like Baby Metal because it's not metal, because it's
got you know, these like uh, you know, kind of
cartoonist jpop vocals and all of this stuff. Like now

(23:29):
right now, Electric Call boyl like one of the biggest
new bands that's you know, around at the moment. The
idea that anything could I don't know, split people like
that in that sort of way of what isn't isn't
accepted in metal. I know there are a couple of
obvious examples that people will be screaming at right now
in terms of stuff that has done that. But I
just think Baby Metal released an album like a couple

(23:51):
of weeks ago, like their fifth or something record, and
we didn't even review it right because it almost felt normal.
You know, it's another record where they've got a million
collabs on with you know, to Prevail and all these
bands and stuff, and it feels so you know, that's
a that's a record that had that been released ten
years ago, people wouldn't have known what the fuck to
make of it, Whereas now it's just like it's the landscape.
You know, it's part of the furniture.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
I think that's that's it for me.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
Is when you look back to like where they were
pussing like Babe Metal with Tinum, is like, is there
any longevity to this? Is it a gimmick that you
know something one of those questions and now it's kind
of like, well, yeah, they're Babe Melt. They're just obviously
they aren't the sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
But like the idea of like genres have like blurred so.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
Much over the last ten years, where like like you say,
dance music can metal and like what he's goinge of
these sort of things.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
It's just so normal now when bands are like.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
There's a million of these jpop kawai bands. Now yeh,
what I.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
Mean, there's like Hannaby and like even you know, ignoring
the sort of the jape quay, you've got something like
Bloody Wood, which is obviously a different kind of like
world musick and metal fusion, but it's the similar approach
of like that sort of real specific cultural music views
of metal, and it's just part of the norm now.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
And I think that's the thing, Like, I mean, you
could have predicted that in.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
Twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, or twenty fifteen on this podcast launched,
Like I don't think anyone would have said that, like, yeah,
they're gonna be baron.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
They might have enjured, but I think there was always
excepting that they would always be.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
Sort of side eyed as something of a novelty and
I just I just don't think Babe Mela anymore.

Speaker 4 (25:21):
Yeah, it was weird because I remember at the time
thinking the factions surrounding this band was so weird. Where
like Don Lawson who would always put Like the Swans
as his album of the year current ninety three, his
arm of the Year for twenty fourteen was this baby
metal record, and I went, hang on, I thought this
was like a weeb internet trend, like why is why
is this guy back it? So it just felt like
there was that was the start of the fracturing of

(25:42):
the rules as far as like this coming out and
being discussed in twenty fifteen. It's funny looking back because
I remember in that review they were going, well, I
don't really know what to make of it. I can't
tell if it's kind of bullshit, if it's really exciting.
And then like nine months later they put out Metal Resistance,
and that's an arm that seems I'm not gonna go

(26:03):
as far as is universally loved, but an album that
like it suddenly seemed like people could get their heads
around it, and there were hit songs on it, which
you didn't have to be a baby metal fan or
an apologist or whatever to defend. They just kind of
they had bangers all of a sudden, And I feel
like it's interesting looking back at this record before that
one and trying to see like, maybe that second record

(26:24):
had more of an impact then we gave it credit
for at the time and maybe still now.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Oh yeah, I mean, you know, certainly something like Karate
is something I think a moment that does cement them
as maybe like, oh they can stick around for at
least a little bit of a long haul again.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
As we discussed on our twenty fourteen special, a lot
of us were expecting in the way Idle culture works
that maybe babe metal would have a shelf life of
dictated by the age of the members, or they would
swap members out or something. So the longevity they have
had with mostly the same girls, I think it's beyond
what anyone was really imagining. But but yeah, it is

(27:00):
like ten years ago is a snapshot into people still
being like what the hell do we make of this
baby metal thing? And then like you were saying, within
a year they've got a record that I think that's
the best baby a record metal resistance, and since that
they've been able to you know, sort of like ride
that out to the point that now they've got again,
you know. Bloody Wood is another one, those like collab
songs that they've they've done, and it feels like this

(27:21):
sort of like you know, global metal crossover stuff in
this vein is just like so part and parcel with
particularly online you know, metal culture and so on. And
it made me think about what was the last time
where we had like a gimmea chocolate where everybody was like,
what the hell is this? You know, Like again, the

(27:42):
way we discussed on that twenty fourteen special, the Breakthrough,
a gimmay chocolate, where everyone all over the Western world
all at once woke up to learning what this thing
was and nobody knew what to make of it. I
don't like, do things have that novelty factor to really
kind of like break open those sort of cultural molds anymore.
Like I don't know, I don't know if we've seen

(28:03):
something like as dramatic as a Gimme Chocolate in the
years since. And like I said, you know, we went
all in on kind of the discourse around baby Metal
and the you know, the toxicity of it compared to
again the surprising longevity all of this stuff when we
spoke about this, you know, first album on the twenty
fourteen special that we did at the end of last
year on the Patreon. But again, it was such a

(28:24):
thing that clearly, basically a year after the album's release,
it was put in the first episode of T and
M as like we need to talk about this, Like
if we're gonna come into talking about metal in twenty fifteen,
we need to address the fox god in the room.
So there it was, and ten years later, Baby Metal
are just like so fucking normal now, And that's maybe
what no one would have predicted. The next album in

(28:45):
the first episode of That's Not Metal comes from the UK,
We're flying back over here and it's from neck Deep
and their album Life's Not Out to Get You. And
at the time this was positioned as, I mean, a
from a UK perspective, it was like, Wow, the UK has,
you know, a pop punk band that is kind of
punching with the best of them now, which historically, I know, Sam,

(29:08):
you're gonna pull the me versus hero card et cetera.
But I know, but I'm just saying, historically, you know,
it wasn't recognized in the same way as having like
a neck Deep, But in general this was pushed as like,
you know, one of the great pop punk albums of
the era, and ten years later, classic pop punk, which

(29:29):
you could describe this album as does not exist, like
we do not have anything like to the standard of
Life Start Up to Get You. And if this is like,
oh my god, this is finally a you know, a
classic that can hang with the best of them your yeah,
you know, your sticks and Stones or whatever, we haven't.
This is almost like the last one. Like I'm sure

(29:51):
there will be pop punk albums that come out since
the people like and again I'm kind of. I'm counting
sort of the Wonder years and those are the Spanish
love songs whatever. It's like slightly different, you know, more
emotional things in terms of pure punk, energetic pop punk.
Not only was this like the first classic in a while,
was it also the last classic?

Speaker 5 (30:12):
I think that.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
I mean probably. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (30:16):
It's tough because it's tough because pop punk fans, the
people who really are pop punk fans, will call any
old shit a classic. They'll call any album classic. But
those albums don't cross over in the way as Sticks
and Stones or Life said not to get you do.
I think this probably is the best pop punk album

(30:37):
of the last ten years. I mean, it would be
that or Brain Pain by four Years Strong for me.
But that's like I feel like the only guy in
the world who loves that record as much is.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
That, Like I love that record. I would also furish
out for the self Touched story so far. I'm from
twenty fifteen as well, but that felt like almost like
a band like kind of like move again.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
That was where they started to move away from pop
punk well ten years ago as well. Right, we're trying
to think of anything that's happened since this and I'm.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
For a shot for the next Deep follow up on
the next problem off this I actually think has better moments.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
But I'm saviors by green Day.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
And expect that next to be coming from you. Of
all people saying like yeah, I like that, you know,
follow up next Deep album, you know in Bloom and
those songs are you know the thing in Bloom is.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
Like probably my favorite Next Deep song. Like I hated
this album at the time. I was to make their
shit Ben's whatever owns the label, like I was in
that camp.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
I have softened on this album.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
Massively and I'm like, well, you know, can't Kick up
the Roads is fucking gray and there's like a run
in the middle of this album, which is like really good.
But I would say like, yeah, neck Deep are probably
the only competition since this album has been four years
strong war themselves.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, and on the four years strong point, I you know,
I like four years strong. I think brain Pain in
particular of their last sort of you know several is
a really strong record. We are going there to a
band who pre date Neck Deep, right, so it's not
like there's a band that have come through since then.
And also, while I think brain Pain is you know,
arguably the best or certain the best. No no, I

(32:18):
was gonna say it's it's one of the best of
the last you know, maybe eighty years or so. I
think there is a gulf between it and Listight to
Get You. I think Lisnight to Get You is the
only again sort of like Sticks and Stones or you know,
take Off your Pants and Jacket whatever, that level pop
punk album that has come out, you know, from twenty
fifteen on arguably fucking whenever. The first story is so

(32:41):
far records were or something like you of this period,
it's the only one. And I think everything that's come
since is almost like it's good for what it is
without reaching to that same level. And like I have
gone through periods of not caring about neck Deep, Right,
I thought the follow up record had some really strong
stuff on it. Then they released that fucking stinker of

(33:02):
a record, and I immediately sort of thought, Okay, I'm
done with neck Deep. I don't care about them anymore.
The last album where they came back, we reviewed it
was good again, right, Like that was a strong, good
classic neck Deep in sound record. Still not good as
good as Life Now to Get You there? Right, I
think Life I'll Get You. Is this kind of almost
an island of how good a pop pup record has
been in this you know, modern era, to the point

(33:24):
that again where I put it on in advance of
this and I was like, oh my god, like can't
Kick Up the Roots and gold Steps and threat Level
Midnight and like rock Bottom, all of these songs hit
me like ah, and I just thought, bring back pop
punk bands writing good songs. That's all it is, Like,
it's amazing how much better these are than everything else.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
I think that's the thing is because I still think
there is a golf in the like this sounds quality
and its popularity, but because of how shit this kind
of pop punk has become, it does like.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Really hold up well.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
Like I mean, there are those December is an absolute
turkey or like neck Deep can't write good ballads. It's there,
it's there, it's their Achilles Hill, like it's not as
bad as a part of me, but it's still terrible.
And that's where again that's one of those things I'm like,
I can give this sound so many props, now I
cannot give it December awful song. But then again, like

(34:22):
the ballad and a couple of the tracks, end are
a bit forgettable, but that like say, the opening is
hilariously kind of like try hard, but once you get
to freak level midnight, I'm just like, God, this is
what pop punk should be.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Isn't it? And and it is. It's it's a shame.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
That no one who's writing songs like this now, apart
from basically neck Deep themselves again.

Speaker 5 (34:41):
Yeah, yeah, it basically is just neck Deep. Like I
don't know, I love this thing so much. It was
my number two in my Shitty Little Alums of the
euro list that I only shared with Peren or whatever, like,
I really love this record, but it's funny. Like going
into it, I was so skeptical about neck Deep. I

(35:04):
was so grumpy. I was so like, hmm, no, you
didn't go for me versus hero, but now you're going
for this shitty, the shitty Welsh one, are you? I
was so like, I just I didn't like the EPs.
They were just like worse story so far. I didn't
like the debut very much when it came out, and
the debut got praised as like it's the best pop

(35:26):
punk album in ages, Oh my god, it's the best
British pop punk ever, and then this coming so quickly
after the debut, like only a year and a half later,
I was so like skeptical. I was like, go on,
then impress me. And then Gold Gold Steps came out
as a single, and I was very, very impressed. I

(35:47):
was just instantly turned around on Life Starting to Get You.
It became immediately like my most anticipated record of the year.
I bought it the day it came out. I I
love it. I hadn't listened to it in full in
a couple of years and almost completely, like completely coincidentally,

(36:08):
when I was in Canada, I was at my friend's house.
We were having like a sleepover. We were playing PlayStation.
We ordered pizza, and my body was like, pick up
a record, put a record on, look at my vinyl collection,
and we together were like, ah, we've not listened to
Life Started to Get You in ages like stick that on,
and with every single song, my buddy Emerson and I

(36:29):
were just looking at each other like.

Speaker 4 (36:30):
It holds up.

Speaker 5 (36:31):
This is this is holding up, just like as if
it's surprising that this record rocks.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
Like I'm just picturing you jumping on the bed to
these songs together.

Speaker 5 (36:43):
Playing Minecraft to slurping down some Pizza. Honestly great soundtrack
for that, But then that was the day before Parent
sort of came to us with this idea, so completely coincidentally,
I was in the mind space to reclaim I've start
out to get you Deep.

Speaker 4 (37:02):
I think like a bit, I guess a bit like Sam.
I've I've softened on this record because I've never liked
neck Deep, but I do think I feel bad after
Mark's whole speech there, I'm gonna come on and sort
of dismiss this, But I do think it's funny that
around twenty fifteen, the way people talk about pop punk

(37:22):
was like this thing is so dead, it can't possibly
get any worse, and ten years later it's like it
doesn't exist. It's just gone. Because in twenty fifteen, yeah,
you know, it was pretty bad, but there was you know,
there were bands like knuckle Puck. There was like say
the Story so Far, who obviously still around, but they
were quite fresh back then. There was Fireworks if you

(37:43):
like them. If I think the Wonder Years have kind
of moved away from it, but around then still pretty
firmly and popunk, least by the time this record comes out.
Putting this on now because there hasn't even been a
decent pop punk record maybe in the twenty twenties outside
of that Brain Pain one and.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Outside of Next Week Last record, Yeah yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:02):
Which I don't particularly like. So putting this on and
they're being like three or four songs where I go, hmm,
I was like, what glorious victory? Yeah, absolute classic.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
But the thing again on that episode, you Know Bees
describe twenty fifteen as like a really great year for
pop punk with you Know this Chunk No Captain Chunk
started releasing you know again, like you know that there
is a good record that year, the one of the
years were around, the stories so far were around. You've
got a knuckle puck four year strong put our record
that year.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Like album is great as well.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
Looking back at that, that's an insane wealth of like,
you know, at the very least decent pop punk music,
the likes of which we haven't seen since. And I think,
you know, the damning thing about Lifestile to Get You,
which I think is a great record. I do think
it is like one of the only things like you
can count them fuck on one hand. You could count
them probably on like two three fingers. The classic pop

(38:53):
punk records on the level of the stuff from the
nineties or two thousands that we've had since, you know,
twenty ten. It's the fact that this record is still
that and did not change the fortunes of pop punk.
And now we've got Travis Barker Core, you know, and
we've got like t X two now, but you know,

(39:14):
Nexteep have climbed back up to being one of the
best pop punk bands in the world. Is this still
the best pop punk record that the UK or the
world anywhere has produced in the time since it? Yeah,
it is so life not out to get you. The
next album was a returning band and it was none
other than Faith No More. With an album that this

(39:35):
being ten years old. Wow, Sol Invictus came out and man,
the excitement around the return of Faith No More, one
of the most revered bands of their era. People were
so excited to have them back and the retrospective here
is ah And then they faded away again.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
I'm glad I got to see them on this cycle
is as well, I'll claim to because again I was
buzzing about the idea about like getting a chance to
catch Faith No More than having a new album that
And now I'm the only Faith in More could release.
I mean, that's something I answered about something Victors like,
going back to this, I don't feel like any other
band could do this record, and that's what I think
is the genius of it. But yeah, it was, you know,

(40:17):
just twenty fifteen when they played like download main stage
before mus and they fucking spanked mus across that stage
and this album. I was a good year to be
a Faith in a More fan.

Speaker 4 (40:27):
I kind of looked back at this time and I'm
so glad that I was the age I was at
the time.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
I was.

Speaker 4 (40:33):
It's easy, especially if you're me, so sometimes thinking like
maybe I was born in the wrong generation. Maybe I
should have been a teenager in nineteen sixty six. Maybe
that would have been better for me. But I kind
of I didn't appreciate it at the time, but the
mid twenty tens was wild for comebacks, and it was
basically an ongoing trend where any time I got into
a band, within a year they'd come back and have
a new record. And Faith in War was I know

(40:55):
they'd come back a couple years before, but that seemed
so unlikely and I got so into Faith in More
around thirteen twenty fourteen, and basically like at the spring
of it, suddenly it's like, oh, now we're doing a
show with Black Sabbath at Hyde Park, and I got
tickets and I went and it was the best Sabbath
show I've seen. I still think Faith No More stole
the day. And then the encore. If any of anyone

(41:17):
listening was there, you'll know were what would be the
two singles from this record. And I remember they hadn't
announced it yet, but just coming out and doing motherfucker
into Leader. It was then called Leader of Men. It
went on to be called Superhero Yeah, And just looking
around the crowd going what are these songs? Are these
B sides? Are they deep cuts? Are these like Chuck

(41:38):
Moseley songs that none of us recognize? And then it
suddenly starts to dawn on. You're like, oh my god,
there's a new Faith No More. And for the next
I didn't really sleep for the next nine months because
I was just waiting for Soul and Victus. It was
as excited for a record I've ever been.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Yeah, and again I was there as well, and I
do remember the excitement of that that motherfucker on the
phone phone and that being again the sort of the
song that was reverbting around in my head going into this,
that this record and you know the same era of
comebacks as you know, like I guess it's a couple
of years later that The Driving did Theirs, and I

(42:15):
think it might be the same year that Refused did
Theirs and stuff so on that you know, that kind
of end of you know, heavy music. There were a
few that were maybe a little bit more divisive, right,
but Sol and Victus. It's interesting looking at back to
ten here today because I don't know, if you guys
share this, I don't hear this record mentioned very often,
like in the way that people that's use examples that

(42:37):
I don't know that Black gives way to Blue or something,
or like you know what insert whatever. The most seminal
kind of comeback rock record you can think of right
now is song Victor doesn't get name dropped as much.
It seems to be a much more you know in
the No Thing And when I remember how like, you know,
what a big deal it was in twenty fifteen. That's interesting.
I think when people think of, you know, the the

(42:58):
masterpiece kind of modern classic records this year that people
still reference ten years later, one with real influence. I
think people don't talk about this as much as the
way they do, you know, like even Brainwatter for example,
but you know, like merely Aura Aya, I mean like
non stop feeling, even records like the Mind Sweep or whatever, right,
And I think maybe it's a combination of maybe they
mean less to that generation coming through since then than

(43:19):
the people who were like waiting for that record since
their nineties. And maybe it's also a case of you know,
like how much influence, like how much can you do
what faith they war are doing on like a comeback record.
You know, they almost exist out of the continue of
where rocky music was going, and they are just sort
of this singular thing that came back, made a record that,
as you say, Sam only they would would make, and

(43:41):
then disappeared again. So I don't think this record, it
maybe doesn't have as much of a legacy as the
inflated position in our heads it may have. But the
record is great, you know, like I would probably say,
I think I do prefer the for you know, original
run Mike Pattern records to it, but those that's you know,
incredible four album run. This is still in terms of

(44:03):
living up to that, Like, Yeah, I was so fucking stoked.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
I would put this in my top three Faith No
More records.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
Wow, I M just like, oh, I really love this
record again, I think because like I like something to Elliot,
I gon to Faith No More. It would have been
like twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, like so the early twenty
tens when I just kind of like, I think Epic
was kind of like doing the rounds again. It was
on a load of video game soundtracks, and I was
kind of like, actually, you know, properly get into this band.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
And then I was kind of like, what the fuck
is this band?

Speaker 3 (44:32):
And these records are just so like like it's not
all you know, big bouncy tunes like Epic but with
the weird voice dude. And then you know, Son Victors
comes along and I was kind of like, Motherfucker as
a lead single is such a weird choice because it's
not you know, Superhero. That to me, I could see
that being a lead single because it is kind of
like a big, rousing rock song as well as being

(44:54):
just really weird. But Motherfucker is this like creeping weirdo
kind of like aunted mantrafing.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
But I think that's it.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
Like the sound, which just it was just too weird
to ever kind of like be a lasting so like
influence on anyone but the freaks, I guess, Like, I mean,
it's so funny looking back that this was rock Sound's
fifth best album of twenty fifteen with you know What
that magazine like went on too.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
But I can see why like a lot.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
Of bands listeners like, well, how do I actually draw
influence from this particular sound beyond the kind of like
boundless fearless creativity.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
I almost think that that's almost its like lasting impact.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
I think it's a crucial thing about the Show of
the Weeks. It's so good. But also why, like like
you say, maybe it's it didn't put cross down to
the younger generation. Is they sound old on this album
And that's one of the best things about it because
the songs are I think, tremendous, like some of my
favorite Faith No More songs and ones that don't even
get discussed on them. It's like motherfucker Superhero brilliant.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
But Rise of the Fall Sunny Side Up Mattadoor is
one of my favorite. It's got that real sort of
like cool, slinky vaudevillian sort of cynistenness that I characterize
this record with Black Friday as well. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (46:07):
Yeah, so we've basically named them all separation anxiety. Like
pretty much every song of this record rocks, but they
do sound like an old band, and you could you know,
there are other comeback records around this time, and if
you want to those things that Black gives way to Blue.
They didn't sound like a fresh faced young band, but
you can imagine that translating down even like surgical Steel.

(46:27):
I had that on the other day. I was like,
the songs sound really like fresh and clean and precise,
and you can imagine someone who's recently gotten into Trivia
More Kills, which engaged getting into a record like that.
They faith No More. They've had big hits, but they
didn't lay out a map for people who were unsure
to get to this record, And I think that's why
if you are in the No ten years later, if

(46:48):
anything like me, you still listen to it all the time.

Speaker 5 (46:52):
Yeah. That's sort of my lasting memory of this record
is on one hand is that the only people who
listened to Soul and Victors were the people who were invested.
But the so like they didn't gain any fans. The
only fans they had were the already existing Faith No
More fans. But the flip side of that is my

(47:13):
memories of this album is everyone being so happy and
so chuffed and it's just a really like joyous, warm,
like nostalgic memory for me sole in Victors just for once,
everyone going, oh, they come back album, Ah, isn't that great?
It's not a king animal, you know, thank God, you know,

(47:35):
it's not whatever at their driving are about to fucking do?

Speaker 1 (47:39):
That's the thing is like, as as the basically the
one album that they made when they came back again,
same era of refusing at the driving, all this stuff.
Would you want more after it? I think probably everyone
at the time would have gone like, yeah, yeah, absolutely
is you know, are we happy that it happened at all? Yeah?
You know, the Faith in the most story is better

(48:00):
for it. It's you know, one sort of miraculous comeback
and then they you know, drifted away, and you know,
it's been a kind of a sad few years for
the potential, you know, because they didn't never officially broke up.
It's just sort of like people at some point realized
that Faith No More didn't actually exist anymore. And I

(48:21):
kind of well, I look at this moment and I
count myself in again that the lucky camp of having
seen them a couple of times around that twenty fourteen
twenty fifteen era, because I know there are people who,
you know, maybe will have been as excited for Soling
Victors as we were, but just for what reason, didn't
get their moment hoped, ah, I'll go to that next tour,
and then like me, got the ticket canceled for that

(48:42):
tour they were going to do, and Faith No More,
you know, faded away again. And that's the sad legacy
of this kind of era. It was just again, you know,
feeling lucky to have been in the camp that saw
them around that time, because it was a really cool era.
The next album on the TN first ever episode was
Straight from the Paths twenty and fifteen album Subliminal Criminals,

(49:06):
and at the time they described this band as kind
of a long overlooked band. I guess they were about,
you know, three or four records or something into their
album point five.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
I think again they have they are such a longer band.
But this is this is album three after they've broken through.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah, well, that's interesting because I think they were almost
like I guess you could still maybe say today that
they have been in the decade since, are still maybe
somewhat underrated band in terms of certainly their consistency, right,
Like I think if you look at the you know,
the ten years of records they've made from this one
to today, I think basically everyone who is a Stray

(49:44):
fan loves all of those records. And you know, now
again it's interesting that this is an album that just
coincidentally ended up in this this first episode because now
we're you know, documenting the Stray from the Path Farewell
Run and they put out their final album that we
pretty rave reviewed earlier this year, and they've been doing
their you know, Farewell festival shows, and at the end
of the year and whenever that last show ends up being,

(50:06):
they're doing, you know, their their final tours, and I guess,
like lots of bands tend to do their final tour,
pull some bigger venues and stuff. I think they're headlining
some academies and stuff over here in the UK when
they come around in November or whenever it is. But
straight in the Path still maybe over the course of
the last ten years a somewhat underrated band in terms

(50:26):
of consistency, but at the same time, you know, their
drummer became a sort of like minor internet celebrity who
coined the name of the most hated genre of the moment.
And I look at Subliminal Criminals and you say, you know,
it's about two or three records after they've kind of broken.
I think that this is almost like them reaching peaks

(50:47):
straight from the Path, that then the next decade is
going to be kind of dominated by because I feel like,
you know, only death is real. After this felt like
another sort of step up in prominence again, you know,
so straight from the path. You have of talk about
being one these bands sort of like they're a late bloomer.
This record is kind of like, yeah, it's them halfway
up the ladder to kind of being the straight from

(51:08):
the path. We absolutely know, yeah, totally.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
I mean I'm coming out of this from someone who
was like in on Rising Sun in like late twenty
eleven o twenty twelve, Like around that time I was
you know, like getting in the door and Anonymous was
kind of like a definite sort of step up in popularity.
But this is where you know, they started to now
appear at Download Festival, and on this album they were
starting to.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Make waves beyond your kind.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
Of hardcore and empiricon kind of circles that they'd been
existing in. And I think the reason is is on
this album, this is the first one you kind of
go well, like first like six or seven songs on
this just hit after hit for like the first kind
of like Runner the record, it was where they really
just started to string together and you're like, okay, so you.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Know you've got New Gods's own intact, but.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
Then you get like one of the most shameless lots
of rage games between copy moments I've ever done, but
Outbreak is such a banger, and you know you then
get Badge of Bullet Part two, Eavesdropper First or Problem Child,
Die Pig, just like songs that kind of like really
sad to sort of galvanized and get people going like ah,
straight from the Path got tunes and that we can

(52:15):
just go and like bounce being down the shout along too,
and it kind of just set the template for you know,
every Shrew of the Path Found is just kind of
gonna just build on this sort of formula. And in
the guest spots and all that.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
This album does fucking rock like and so and again.
I think that the strongest ten year patches Straight from
the Path is this album through to the one they
put out this year. All of those albums rock and
this one is no different. The trap list just goes
like crazy.

Speaker 5 (52:41):
Yeah, I was so pumped for this. I got a
non anonymous. I still have sort of a nostalgic pool
for anonymous, Like don't ask me which one of this
an anonymous I prefer, because you're not gonna like the answer.
But it's because it came out. It was the first
one I heard, and I really fell in love with
Badging of Bullet and all that. But this is, like,

(53:02):
like you say, it's funny looking back Straight from the Path,
because this felt like such a like step up, crowning moment,
sort of like, oh my god, they've made it Outbreak
is like their their song now. But like like you say, Parrin,
every Straight from the Path album until about twenty nineteen
felt like a step up. I mean they didn't even

(53:23):
have their iconic drummer on this one, Like yeah, they
didn't even become fully formed Straight from the Path yet,
but at the time, I was like, you joined on
this cycle. Yeah, I was like, holy shit, they're fully
formed now, nah, only death is realized like head and
shoulders above this. But I like, this is a fucking rollicker.

(53:46):
It's like when rou comes in, fuck me, when Sam
comes in. It's like they got the features. The rifts
are big and thick and bouncy, the beats are daft,
like it's an absolute just barn storm.

Speaker 4 (54:02):
Yeah. I mean I'm a bit of an outsider because
I came into this record like not really that aware
of straight from the path. All I remember is thinking
the album title was laughable.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
I don't know what it does.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
It's a bit fucking you know, funk matter.

Speaker 4 (54:16):
It's literally it's a bit lyrical miracle like it basically
is that actually. But yeah, but I remember this record
coming out and like hearing some of the buzz around it,
and okay, i'll try one of the songs. And the
one song that I tried like straight away was die Pig.

Speaker 6 (54:32):
And I remember that someone got to bring that up
because I remember then like if you got it's a
bit of a raging its Machine thing, and some a
lot of bands that take from raging its Machine end
up kind of i know, softening it or not updating
it or just making it so it's the lyrics are vague.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
I was like, oh, he's literally naming the guys in
this song step yeah, precisely, like like the Lost Profits thing.
And it was like, oh, so he's not just gesturing
at something his point to all of us and going like,
I know, you've just enjoyed that big helmet riff. But
those guys there, they're romins. And after that, even though

(55:09):
I never became like a head over the heels fan
and I was never like desperately anticipating each record, they
kind of warmed me forever for that because it's so
refreshing to have someone just kind of go, hey, you
know this thing we're all ignoring. That's what we're gon.
We're gonna sing a song about it.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
And the thing looking back ten years later is they're
still doing that, right, And they've still while seen bands
come and go being much more vague and you know,
kind of a bit more clout Chasey in you know,
their statements, whereas Trak A The Bard have just consistently
been like, yeah, hey, these guys here, fuck them and

(55:43):
doesn't mean words, no, no, and you know, on this album,
you know that there's Outbreak, which is about kind of
the health industry still a concern they're writing about now.
You know, Shot Caller on that new album has a
bit of that going on. There's songs about you know,
police brutality and race, which only I think, you know,
became more of a kind of topic of conversation in
the public sphere, you know, since this album Die Pig

(56:03):
with you know, Front Porchstep and that he might not
be in our minds anymore, but the topic in question
never goes away. And you know, of the bands we've
got in this episode, they are like the really in
your face political one. And I think in you know,
twenty twenty five, since then, maybe maybe people weren't as
you know, what's the word. People weren't as kind of

(56:24):
you know, butted up in a way to like receive
these like just supremely again like unfiltered statements like that
in records at the time, and it was a bit
more like, oh my god, I can't believe they've said that.
Whereas you know now today, as we've seen on their
record this year, I think their willingness to point at
the people that other bands would be scared of pointing
directly at is you know, more needed than it's ever been.

(56:47):
And you know, the rich white kids still need to
be told shut the fuck up, as they say on
this record, and you know this record still holds up.
And even though they are you know, they're bowing out
ten years after this, and again the timing of these
episodes just happens in that way. I think of all
of these bands, they are one of the most positive

(57:07):
stories about in the ten years since this record that
we have in front of us.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
Yeah, for me, it's you know, a legacy of no
misses in a sort of a ten year period.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
This is not you know, sleeps.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
So we're kind of realized like, ah, well, the glorious
sides of twenty fifteen and now they're self imposed hell
that they're stuck in and straight.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
It's just like, well, yeah, they were just great. Every time.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
It was you got the thing you wanted, You got
you know, brash in your face sort of songs with
sort of political slogans that actually meant something and weren't
just kind of like empty words. Can't had in your
brick house, pussy like just shit that just like got
your riled up, and they just kept doing it, and
then they kind of rich was like, I think we've
taken this as far as we can go. Let's bow

(57:51):
out of one last kind of like banger album over
this sort of again, if we're looking at just like
the ten year period, I think it's a hell of
a legacy. I leave and I'm glad to kind of
been on this sort of ride over the ten plush
years of them.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Yeah, Bullet My Valentine's Venom is our next album, and
this is one in this batch that I don't know,
I've been looking forward to because I felt like, we
don't talk about this record that frequently, and just looking
at it through this particular lens really kind of, you know,
caught my imagination in a way, because this is one
that felt like a huge record at the time, and

(58:24):
now ten years past we look at it like, who cares,
this is the biggest you know, separate again, maybe if
Brainwashed was like, oh, you know a record that was
slightly undersung at the time, and now ten years later
it was a classic. This is the inverse of this
white Underniably, one of the metal events of the year
was Bullet of Valentine releasing Venom, which, obviously, if you

(58:47):
know your history, it's the album of then climbing back
up on the horse after Temper Temper. And this is
a band who was still you know, basically a couple
years off of being the biggest thing in certainly you know,
British but arguably global metal at the time, and them
releasing a record that was, you know, much better than
what they'd done before. It was like a really huge

(59:07):
deal and it felt like Bullet's future history could maybe
be written by the kind of, you know, the steps
that were made on this album. But like I said,
here we are ten years later, and who the fuck
cares about Venom? And I'm not even saying that as
someone who dislikes the record. I'm saying this separate from
the quality of the record, because I think Venom is
mostly good. I think it is firm fourth best placed

(59:31):
Bullet my Valentine album, and those are the four that
I would have any kind of remaining fondness for today essentially,
But in terms of like the significance that was put
on an album at the time versus the significance it
has ten years later, this is one of the widest
drop offs. I guess, like I said, even separate from

(59:52):
the quality of the album itself, just in terms of
what happened in the ten following years.

Speaker 3 (59:55):
Yeah, yeah, that's because all this album's legacy is now
is the first time Bullet came crawling back like that.
That's what this album like. Again, I liked some at
the time, I wasn't like out of it. I think
like there is a huge gap between the best song
on this album, in No Way Out, and the rest
of the record. But to me, this album it just
screams in security. To me, when I listen back to

(01:00:18):
it now, the whole thing feels all this blush of like, yeah,
you know, we're we're we're gonna fight you and we're gonna.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
Come out you swinging because we're a metal band and
we're tough and hard.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
And then fucking three years later, it's fucking first you
want to love me, then you want to hate me,
like and again, like a companies off from.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
That there, then you know, bring out the knives. We're
ready to fight again.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
We're a scary metal band, and it's just like, well,
I just I don't And that's what this amum is.
I just don't believe I don't get a single drop
of authenticity from this album. And I listen back to
it now in twenty twenty now, like twenty twenty five,
ten years afterwards, the otherbum with this album, What were
they doing on the headline tour to promote this album
in twenty fifteen, they are playing the Poison in full

(01:00:59):
and now ten years like they're playing the Poison for again.
The entire thing just screams in authenttaity to me. And again,
then actual songs are mostly pretty good and let you
know again, one like song that I would say I'd
happy to see Bullet play every time I see them,
But it's just the legacy of this album is just again,
it's the first time they come calling back to tail
tuck between their legs, trying to be a metalcore band again.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
And I think that's just a little bit embarrassing.

Speaker 5 (01:01:23):
Yeah, because I really liked this at the time, and
I do like Bullet, but like, I can't tell you
the last time I even listened to a single song
from this And I'm someone who will constantly be like, oh, cheeky, bittersweet,
bittersweet memories, chuck that on. I'll listen to hit the

(01:01:44):
floor every once in a while. Never has it ever
crossed my mind to listen to Army of Noise, even
though when I listened back Army of Noise as a banger,
Pariah as a banger. There's great songs on here, but
there is sort of an I know it was saying
that cynical at the time. Obviously it was a cynical move,

(01:02:04):
but you listen back with the further context of what
Bullet have done since, and it's so much more obvious
how cynical it is, because that's.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
All Bullet do.

Speaker 5 (01:02:15):
All they do is pivot after like, oh, you guys
didn't like that one. Okay, well, I guess we're pop
bound again. Oh no, no, sorry guys, Oh we're metal actually,
oh oh sorry about that one. It's all they fucking do.
And that's all I can think about. Listening back to
what is a pretty decent record is like how sniveling

(01:02:36):
it is, and like Sam said, and authentic is the word,
but it's so weird because they're like Army and Noise
is sick. I really like that song, but I don't know,
there is something.

Speaker 4 (01:02:51):
So try hard about it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:53):
Bullet always the self titled album has this problem as well.
When they try to be really really heavy, it's like
they they're confined by being bullet for My Valentine. It's
not convincing, like you're trying to snarl, but you've imposed
a muzzle on yourself by bullet. By being bullet for

(01:03:13):
My Valentine, it's not heavy, guys.

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
Even the fact it's called venom is just embarrassing because
it's like, okay, fun, we've done the poison, what's like that?
What's similar?

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Shit?

Speaker 4 (01:03:25):
Shit, ah, that's the other one. Perfect. And then they're going, oh,
there's a V five and then we could do grab Vitty,
which is V I. And then you listen to the
record and you're like, did you spend any time on
the music they're in because it's clear what the vision was. Again,

(01:03:47):
I'm not a Bullet for my Valentine fan, but I
can recognize when their songs are big. You know, your
betrayal very big tears don't fall as big. Screaming fire
is big. I listened to this and I was like
that feel I was a waste of my time. It
was literally a waste of my time because I wasn't
thinking the whole time it was on and when it
ended I was like, I don't remember a that. Now

(01:04:07):
I appreciate that I'm not. I'm not in the demographic
for the Bullet for my back because I wasn't a fan.
For me, it wasn't like, oh, they're coming back to
something else. I like, I just thought, Oh, it's them
doing a slightly worse version of thing I wasn't already
that keen on again. With the context of ten years hindsight,
this album is even sadder because if this was Bullet,

(01:04:29):
like you said earlier, at the time, it was Bullet
getting back on the horse, if then they went on
to you know, headline download and release great records like
they'd started off with and all that sort of thing,
I think there'd be more fonds for this record. But
then they got back on the horse and then just
smashed it in the head with a cricket bat and
that was it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
Yeah, that's that's Venom's problem in the long run. I
think it's it's the fact that they didn't follow up
on the promises of it, because I mean, I I
think I feel the most positive about this record I
of all of us, amazingly because I think, you know,
I agree in what you're saying in terms about the
sort of the cynicism of it, I think you just
have to treat Bullet of Valentine a bit like you
treat and the bon Jovi or something right like it.

(01:05:07):
Don't take it that seriously in the terms of their
intent is just like are they writing, you know, are
they delivering something close to the thing that you want
from them? And I think Venom is very good, you know,
I think it is even again when they sort of
pivot to go more metal again the next time on
the self titled record, there's something a bit more twenty
twenties modern about it, whereas this record sounds like the

(01:05:28):
Bullet of Valentine that I loved, you know. And again
it's not as good as the Poison. It's not as
good as you know, the Scream and Fire or Fever either,
I think. But I agree. I think No Way Out
is the last like classic Bullet Founatine song where if
you're giving them a set list of their sort of
like fifteen best songs, that's that's in there. I never like,
do you want a battle, Here's a war? That's the

(01:05:49):
one eve though, That's yeah, that's that's the big song
on this album, but it's the wimpy chance we Will
that sucks. I never like that, but Army and Note
Noise goes pretty hard. I think Worthless is good. I
think Skin is good. Pariah at the end, which you mentioned,
Mark's a really good song. I really like that one.
But the problem is as an event, it's not significant

(01:06:11):
the way that it felt in twenty fifteen because of
what history has proven, you know, and I think at
the time it was almost like Bulletfroann Time's time had
gone already in twenty fifteen. We were just like catching
up to realize it. And as if to stamp that,
the second episode of TNM featured that's the spirit, right.
It's like Burt Valentine were this record felt like it
could be important at the time, but in reality they

(01:06:32):
were already old news, you know, and just as an
extra police information. I think it's the last one with
Moose on the drums. So in terms of that idea
of like even the image of you know, the classic,
you know era of bullet My Valentine, this is the
last album where that was kind of somewhat intact. So
I think, you know, some of the records they've done

(01:06:52):
or tracks whatever here or there since then are you know? Fine?
But this is the last one I would count as
you know, the My Valentine that I was particularly a
fan of. And yeah, like I said, one of the
most interesting ten year trajectories of the legacy of a record,
because it's a record that I thought was good at
the time and I still think is good. But the

(01:07:13):
legacy doesn't, you know, stand up to what's actually there.
And when I was saying that every one of these
records has a legacy, the absolute sneak in the batch
right is the fact that the first episode TNM featured
the debut album from As it Is, which is what
It's like, never Happily, Never asked after bollocks is what

(01:07:37):
it's called hell hell of a birthday treat. This was
forcing ourselves to listen to a full As it Is
album ten years after it came out. Maybe that's not
that I was a mistake. It somehow feels wrong actually
that As it Is debut was only ten years ago,
because it feels like they've been playing us for much

(01:07:58):
longer than that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
Am I alone?

Speaker 4 (01:07:59):
Then?

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
No? To me, this is like this feels like the
embodiment of like twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen pop punk. I
think they were, you know, twenty fourteen was when they
did actually sort of really start to become a known presence.
Darl Tones was kicking about well before this album right
actually came out, and Patty Waters was doing his pop

(01:08:21):
punk YouTube covers and all that, so they were kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
Like, that must be why I thought they've been around
for longer, because I was like, only ten years ago
that that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
Him and sort of thing were kind of like lurking
about beneath the surface, and then this album like came
along and blessed us in twenty fifteen. I mean, obviously
we've talked about another pop punk album on this special
and I'm not gonna say they're never happy ever after.
By as it Is, it's a better album than Lives

(01:08:53):
to Get you buy neck Deep. But the high points
on this album stuck with me more than the high
points on that Neck Deep album.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
And I say by high points, I mean two songs
like two.

Speaker 4 (01:09:08):
Yeah, what the fuck is the second one?

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Concrete?

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
I've listened, what.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
It's really good?

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
How the fuck are you saying the second best song
of the debut As it is album is fit to
be in the company of anything of lifestyle to kick.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
I don't know. I wish I could explain the bizarre.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
Choke hold that those two as it Is songs managed
to like get on me in twenty fifteen. But here
we are, but I don't want to get I'm like,
straight face dial Tones is better than every song on
that neck deep album. I've said it and I will
stand by that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
I this, this is the regular face down and goer
in you I diatnes you know, I huge. I think
As it Is are a completely shit band. Dial Tones
I'm not even gonna sell, like I never just stick
on dial Tones, but if it comes on, I know
the word right, and so I can respect it in
that sort of like semi ironic like oh we're going
for it though. But the idea that as it Is

(01:10:06):
have a single other song that absolutely insane.

Speaker 5 (01:10:12):
What's crazy about this is someone saying the second as
it Is song. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I
agree to songs, and I wasn't thinking Concrete. I was
thinking that and Setback wren't you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:10:23):
I really like that song as well. I'll just like,
let's just put this out there. As it is a wank,
really fucking bad band awful, like revisiting this record. Within seconds.

Speaker 3 (01:10:40):
Leggy Da scheduled, I forgot that's how the album starts,
and I was like, oh god, it's so fucking bad.

Speaker 5 (01:10:48):
Patty is one of the worst. Like he sounds like
fucking SpongeBob. He's horrid. I hate his voice. I hated
it back then, but now I'm older, I'm like, fucking hell,
get him away from me. Really bad bad. The production sucks. However,
dial Tones.

Speaker 4 (01:11:05):
Is a miracle.

Speaker 5 (01:11:07):
It's magical that they have a song that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
Fuck.

Speaker 5 (01:11:10):
I love dial Tones. I've always loved dial Tones, and
I will still listen to dial Tones and be like,
this is a fucking sn It's perfect.

Speaker 4 (01:11:19):
I feel so fucking left out.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
The voice of reason please be the same one.

Speaker 4 (01:11:24):
Yeah, I know, because this is this is the point
is that I feel like sometimes I come with this
it's like I'm snobby about pop punk lthough I'm you know, condescending.
So that's not a song that I realized the other
day that I thought about something.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
I thought.

Speaker 4 (01:11:36):
I quite like that song is what do You Want
for Me? By Forever? The Sickest Kids like that, The
Sickest Kids song. It was like so I'm not gonna
be talking down to anyone. Dial Tones is this song
which for nearly the whole time it's been out, well
basically right, people have been telling me that song is good,
that song is I've heard it so many times. I've

(01:11:59):
played it's right, like I'm revising for an exam. I'm
trying to learn it in case it comes on at
one of these like Facedown Nights or something. I can't
remember it. I don't know how it goes. I feel
so excluded.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
It's like a stile And then the idea that there's
a second one is like what the yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
Even I again, the back and forth backing vocal club,
I forgot they had two singers actually because Patty Walters
is just so obviously missed it as it is. But
you know when they comes in with a second days,
the back and forth, you know it's it's I'll go
as far as to say it's somewhat well arranged. Right,
it worked for what it is. But like I said,
the first noise on the album is repellent, and the

(01:12:40):
you know, why should I still stick around when all
I do is let you down? Yet he has right
even when as it is went away, they still stuck
around in the long run, and it you know, going
back to the ten years ago and I guess why
it would have been picked for the first episode, is
it you know in a way it sort of aligns
with you know, our twenty one Pilots album Club that
we did also looking back on ten years ago of

(01:13:02):
the general sort of watering down of like you know,
punk into pop, as was happening with this and this
album is a real you know, it's a total here
you go. It's it's an example of it. And even
when they managed to craft a hit that most people
in a room can remember some exclusions may apply, they
still just like they cannot get past this the weird

(01:13:24):
era of just sort of like every pop punk band,
particularly on the cover of a magazine when they'd have
like the you know, cartoon drawn in pizza or something
in their hand, like everyone like you pulling the sex
offender face, and the era of every one of them
feeling like some kind of Nickelodeon presenter, which, as you

(01:13:44):
said with you know, Patty Walter's whole thing was he
was like a shoot it fits.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
They I think five days before we got picked at
the time was This was, you know, the guy like
coming from the sort of blowing up YouTube covers sort
of scene, who like what if I just can't wait
to be King from the Lion King is a pop
punk song, and but they're like he was what he
was the one doing the Disney songs as pop punk
covers and and that again, like I found them quite

(01:14:11):
repellent at the time. I was like, stop ruining these
classic songs. I hate you, And then her Dalton's was
like that's good.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
So I found it was himmiar.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
I was like, oh, for fox sake, say nice things
about guy who's ruined my favorite Disney songs. But I
think that was it is like the land of like
YouTube covers crossing over into actual legitimate music, legitimate like music,
but like an actual band releasing and stuff that's gonna
be come by rock press. I mean, that was one
of these things you have to kind of look at
in twenty fifteen and kind of say.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
What does this sort of signal?

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
Where?

Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
Where is this a turning point of like this YouTube
covers sort of like tumbles celebrity sort of online thing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
Is this what we're dealing with now?

Speaker 5 (01:14:50):
Yeah, because there was tons of these guys like Melanie
Martinez and Emma Blackery or whatever, and they were starting.

Speaker 1 (01:14:56):
To Melon Martinez, the one who used to dress as
a baby.

Speaker 5 (01:14:59):
Yeah, yeah, bad time.

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
What the fuck is that a nightmare from it? Honestly,
it's one of the weirdest things that's ever been popular.
It's really weird. Yeah, so that there's a nightmare from
the past, ready when he remembers it.

Speaker 5 (01:15:13):
I have such a vivid memory of the first time
I heard dial Tones being thanks to you, Sam, because
you were like, no, trust me, trust me. I know,
don't look at him. I know you know who Patty is.
Trust me. This is a good song. And I begrudgingly
listened to it and immediately became my personality that I
fucking love dial Tones. It's sort of deep in the

(01:15:37):
bedrock of our friendship. Dial Tones is.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
It's just there. It's like an unmovable kind of part.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
Listen to him simple though My oceans were lakes were lakes.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
That's the thing, is the low points on this album.

Speaker 3 (01:15:54):
The song in between the two good songs on the album,
dial Tones and Concrete Is there is a alid in
between them, which makes December by Neck Deep sound like,
uh like a issue or.

Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
December is November rain next to motions.

Speaker 3 (01:16:11):
Like genuinely like that, things like like all of the pozzles,
Like I said about my two songs on the same
I like almost everything else. I'll give Mark cheaps ons
and setbacks as that's pretty big. Almost everything else is worthless.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
Yeah, My listening to this album was, I guess, you know,
simply to what Elix said of these other albums, a
wasted exercise, because going in, I remember dial tones and
nothing else, and half an hour later, I remember dial
tones and nothing else, you know, and thinking about, you know,
ten years later. Obviously, as it is, they've proven a
hilarious stain that won't go away in terms of their

(01:16:45):
nine month breakups and the many like you know, the
what we used to call them out for all the
time of their just sort of like adopting the looks
of other band's eras, like when they just decided romance
here yeah, where they just decided to just be three
cheers MC harm for a while, and they're sort of weird,
you know, coach playing of other things. But today, you know,
I'm thinking who even are again? If if, as it is,

(01:17:07):
were the representative picks there for all of that kind
of the the lighter end of pop punk. If neck
Deep was here as like a more incredible end, what
do we even have today that is the as it
is of the modern era because we've gone from I
think YouTuber pop punk two TikToker pop punk, right, and
like I said, you know t X two and in
a while between as it is and t X two,

(01:17:28):
I can only count that as an incredible fucking you know,
continuing to go down the wrong path of history as well.

Speaker 3 (01:17:35):
I mean it's it's that TikTok like a pop kind
of that's the sort of the negative kind of like
sworn off of like where as it is were and
it's just yeah, some of the worst music ever has
happened as a result of this.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
So I can't defend it too much.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
Yeah, this is big though, but certainly no others, certainly no.
Next up, we're gonna go a little bit heavy. Lamb
of God and their album seven Storm and Drang, which
was released in I think it was all the summer
of twenty fifteen, wasn't it. And this is another record

(01:18:10):
actually you know, maybe the what of the words, the
legacy of it is not quite as stark as you know,
Venom from Bulk from Valantine. But I think it's another
record that felt like a massive deal at the time
in terms of the run up to it. Right Again, obviously,
I'm sure many people remember that Randy Blythe's whole kind

(01:18:31):
of saga of you know, being in check jail and
all this stuff and his kind of you know, manslaughter
trial that he was going through and all that stuff
was what kind of fed into then the creation of
this record. And it is a record that, as you
would expect from Randy Blythe, it's it does you know,
it's a quite thoughtful exploration at times of you know,

(01:18:51):
that experience that he went through and kind of the
places that he was in and all of this stuff.
But it felt like a huge deal. The fact that,
you know, Lamb of God were only you know, six
years off of their last album that everyone agrees as
a total one of their like absolute best records in Wrath, right,
and then they had resolution, but they were still Lambagod

(01:19:12):
was still hot, right, And when the you know, the
arrest of Randy and everything happened, it was not only
was it obviously that's a fucking horrible, you know, traumatic
for everyone involved. Situation that to happen to anyone, but
it was happening throughout the time one of our biggest
like stars right Stem and Drang ten years later is

(01:19:33):
kind of a record that again does not get spoken
about as much as the sort of you know, it's
significant in history would sort of uh dictate. And again,
you know, this can be separate to the quality of
the record in some way and some of the you know,
positives or negatives that we might say about it. But

(01:19:54):
I just I just feel like this is another record
that felt like at the time that it was put
on that first T and M you know show, it
felt like, you know, a new Lamb of Gold record
is an enormous deal in the way that you know,
we still review Lamb of Gold records, and we still
normally like Lamba Gold records, but I don't think they
feel like enormous deals the way that going into this
one it would have felt.

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
I mean, I guess when a band till hit to
certain point of like I mean, for me, part of
is this is the last truly great Lamb of God
record to me, Like I think the two since then
have been you know, very good Lamb of God records.
But they've kind of just been at the this stage.
It feels like Lamb of God by Numbers a little
bit just kind of turned up and doing what they do.

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
I mean, a lot of people would say that the
last truly great Lamb of God record was somewhere before
this one, you know, and that this is the beginning
of kind of a tailoff. So I'm interested to hear
you say that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
Like it might be the beginning of the tef but
I think, like, I think it's I think it's a
much better than Resolutions, and I think like the best
moments on this are fucking amazing. This is the last
Lamb of godam that I like said, like, I really like,
genuinely love But I guess it is from probably most people,
the start of that kind of like tailoff. But it's
also like the last Lamb of God album with like
an actual like story going into it. And I guess

(01:21:05):
was that something that that overshadows the actual musical on
the album for a lot of people In the end,
it is that whole like era leading into it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
But yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:16):
I think like people in the know were still going
to like rep for a lot of stuff on this album.
I think it's that's got some like some of the
more interesting deviations on it, where like they try something
cool while still you know, then having five one two
as you kind of like peak Lamb of God rage
that you want. But yeah, I just go back to
sad movie now and then just God, like just a
fucking good Lamb of God album, and the other since

(01:21:38):
then have been had the moments, but this, this is
the last one I feel has any like lasting impact
on me at least.

Speaker 4 (01:21:45):
Yeah, I think this is my favorite lamm of God
record post raph of the four they've done since then,
I think i'd have it at number one. In fact,
I'm I'm I would, And it's not necessarily because this
record does anything like totally spectacular. It's just that those
other records have some quite glaring issues for me. Like
I think Resolution has great moments, but it's got a

(01:22:06):
slightly weird sound to it. It's definitely too long, the
self title I find really boring, and Omens I think
has some great songs on it, but I never really
go back to it as a record. Sterman Drang Felt
like A is the last record Chris Adler, which I
think makes a huge difference and going back to this
and like fucking hell, Like wow, like what a component
that guy was in this band and frankly how much

(01:22:28):
they miss him now. But also it was the last
time for me where Lama God were really you touched
on this like pushing themselves, like testing the waters on
some new ideas. Like even if you compare the guest
spots on this record to the record after you know
the self title is what Chuck Billy and Jamie jast
who like it's like those guy's on jury service or something.
They just have to go and do metal guest spots,

(01:22:49):
whereas I remember on this record it was Greg from
Dillinger and Gino from Deaf between the last between this
and the previous Lamb of God record, two bands I
became obsessed with, So I was I was excited for
all that Overlord. I remember that being like a talking
for Yeah of the Year, and I forgot it was
on this record because I han't gone back to it,
and something I was like, I remember that song being

(01:23:10):
so widely discussed and so debated, you know in a
way that you know, these huge metal bands do have
these songs peppered in their career where it's like they
become a sticking point forever, and by the time the
next record comes along, it feels like it's not really disgusting.
I don't know, it's a strange record.

Speaker 1 (01:23:26):
This, Yeah, Overlord is funny because it's it's almost the
song that I have in my head when people, uh,
you know, whenever any kind of like fuss is kicked
up about a band who are usually sort of growley vocals,
including Cleans, right, because that was the really thing with Overlord.
It was like, oh my god, Randy's singing, and everyone
thought the next album was gonna be like their full

(01:23:46):
sellout fucking thing, right, It's gonna be like Randy's gonna
stop growling, They're just gonna have metical choruses everywhere. And
instead they basically just went back to business as usual, right,
And the two records they made since this one are
much more you know, within the pocket, not stretching their
boundaries than you know this or Resolution did. And again,
I think this is a record that maybe at the time,

(01:24:09):
I think people at the time registered that this maybe
with Resolution, Lamb of God were starting to slow down
from their absolute two thousands hot streak, right, And I
think particularly when this record came around. It was the
beginning of people acclimatizing, I guess to talking about Lamb
of God as if they were a band on the
down right. I'm a big fan of Resolution. I've always

(01:24:32):
really really like Gone to Bat for that record. I
like it more than this record. I would say it's,
you know, not as good again as the ten years
of records basically before it, but I prefer it to
every record they've made since this one. I also then
prefer to you know, the following two records. I think
Omens the last one. I mean, I like the South
out of record Ford it is. I thought Omens was,
you know, an improvement on the self outed record, but

(01:24:52):
neither of them have come close to this, which in
itself is almost again not really as close to a
sacrament or a wrath, right, But I think this is
the beginning where Resolutions again is more experimental, and this
is more experiment on the ones that come afterwards. This
is almost the beginning of the sort of Lamb of
God's stability that we talk about now, in the way
that in the two thousands we go, oh my God,

(01:25:13):
a Lamb of God record, and in the twenty twenties,
we go, oh cool, a Lamb of God record that, like,
this is kind of the exact middle point of that
change really happening where people were figuring out in real
time the shift that was going on. I really like
this record still, you know. I think you know, still
Echoes was a really great first kind of you know,
rager on it. Obviously, the song that has stuck around

(01:25:33):
five to one two is the peak classic Lamb of
God song on it, and whenever I see Lamb of
God today and they throw that song in a set,
it always makes me go like, ah, this song is
still you know, because I don't think of it as
being on one of the classic Lamb Gold records, but
every time it comes in, I go like, oh, this
song is fucking fantastic. It's exceptional. But this is a
record that, you know, it's it's not as significant a

(01:25:56):
record for them as its backstory and kind of point
in time coming for them sort of suggested it might
be it stuck around in the form of again throwing
out classic songs like a five to one to two
or whatever. So it's not like a venom either, right
in terms of you know, a record that has completely
kind of failed to be followed up on in that way,

(01:26:16):
but again there was there was hubbub about the record
that ultimately turned out to be the first or maybe
the second, but certainly some of the earliest ages of
the sort of general slowing down consistency we now associate
with Amma God rather than I think at the time
when people were going into it, people the memories of

(01:26:36):
like the peak Lamb of God was still fresh enough
for people to have really high hopes it, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:26:42):
Yeah, And I guess this happens with all metal bands.
They slow down, the fire in their belly dampens a little,
Like I think the band on this other than maybe Chris,
because Chris is really hammering it and the snare of
sounds fucking sick as always, the band are all less
fiery than on a Wrath. But Randy, obviously because of

(01:27:06):
the context of it, like this is a very personal
record for him.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
This is like.

Speaker 5 (01:27:12):
One of Randy's best performances. He sounds fucking amazing. He
sounds like a mountain on this. I really, I really
love him on it, and like on song cycle for
Lord and five one two, he's really crushing it. But
like that can't really like one vocal performance can't really

(01:27:32):
carry an album which is maybe an eight out of
ten that happens to be after a bunch of nines
and tens.

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think there's some great riffs
on it, you know, and just became The funny thing
that was again said on that review on the first
ten episode is when they're talking about the Chino feature
on it, right, which I agree, or I remember when
Chino and Greg on it, because they were, you know,
they're not as obvious picks for a Lamb of God
feature as some of their other ones are, and it
was like, oh man, this is really cool, and you know,
the moment when there's turn up on the record are
really like ear catching. But talking about the Gino feature,

(01:28:04):
they were like, I can't wait for the next Deathtones records,
and the next one within a year was Gore, right,
and you know, many people like God, I'm among them,
but it's obviously it's very it's a very divisive record
and just thinking about that little you know what little
you knew at the time comment right of not knowing
the whole decade journey we've gone on with them, right
from Gore right after this being the most divisive death

(01:28:26):
Phones record, certainly in the you know, kind of more
modern era. But then going through to what we just
spoke about on last week's show reviewing their new record
and then becoming a much bigger band than they were
in twenty fifteen when they made that comment, right, that's
the whole fucking decade journey that they've gone on.

Speaker 3 (01:28:43):
That's what I think, because you're gonna like, at the time,
like different kind of genres, but they were almost like
peers in terms of popularity of that kind of like
Wrung Below. Yeah, yeah, download headliners, but that the Deaftones
and Lamgore, you know, we're both reliably sub headline second
sage headline that sort of level. And now it would
feel like Chino turning up on a Lamb of Godwin
would kind of be like, oh wow, they've got like

(01:29:04):
someone from the big leagues on there now like that.
That's such a weird like transition over how things can
change in ten years.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
Yeah, and then obviously with Greg Pachato as well, you know,
this is the year before Association and the Dellinger Escape
Plan calling it quits, and then we've had the Black
Queen and we've had Greg solo and now Better Lovers
and everything that's gone on there as well. So yeah,
Sturm and Drang Frank Carter in the Rat or Snake's
debut album Blossom from two thousand and fifteen. So this

(01:29:33):
is a mad one to go back to because we're
now going back to remember that time when Frank Carter
was kind of down and out not being taken seriously
by the rock press, and he started this new band
and they were playing like one hundred and fifty cap
two hundred cap like pubs and stuff like that. This
is so long ago that people were going, oh, he's
we've Dean from Heights in this new band. Heights being

(01:29:55):
mentioned in twenty fifteen.

Speaker 3 (01:29:57):
So there are a few albums on this sort of
thing we're talking about that so ingrained into my DNA.
This album I have an even stronger connection to because
it came out on my birthday, so.

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
I have some more than as it is like more
Than's no this.

Speaker 3 (01:30:11):
Album of all like a like say we share a birthday.
I was seeing like again you say different Heights. The
rest of the backing banders point was like the Ghost
of a thousand, like this.

Speaker 2 (01:30:23):
Is this is like this this.

Speaker 3 (01:30:25):
First its ration of Frank Cart and the Rattle Snakes
was a bit of a UK hardcore supergroup, and I
was again like sew in on that. But yeah, this
was obviously you know, pure love happens. I really like
pure love, but it doesn't really work out. And again,
Frank Carter's kind of like brushed a sign and you know,
like Gallows aren't aren't a flavor of the month anymore,

(01:30:46):
like if it always a kid. It's kind of like
this is almost like a last chance of like Frank
Cart's got to take another stab at it, So what
did you do?

Speaker 2 (01:30:54):
Always going heavy again? And I remember they're being sort
of sneering.

Speaker 3 (01:30:56):
About that, and we're like, oh, you know, yeah, I'm
so sick of singing about hey, and now he's going
to come in on and do another hardcore band again. Sure,
I believe you want to see it. And then you know,
our moments were Juggernaut.

Speaker 1 (01:31:07):
This is the thing, right because at the time, you know,
a lot of people including you know, the original incarnation
of that start metal, there was this kind of lingering
upset over Pure Love, right, which was kind of seen
by some as a you know, throwing out of the
the ideals of Gallows, right, who were again again quite

(01:31:28):
fresh at this point in time. Gallows certainly that first
Frank cart era feel like such a thing of the
past now, but this is only a few years removed
really from you know, Frank leaving Gallows. There was you know,
there was kind of lingering bitterness over the whole pure
love thing and him coming back with this, like you're saying,
questioning of the sincerity of the anger or the idea

(01:31:49):
that he's like playing a character or something when he's
being you know, angry Frank and now you know, may
I don't think people would question that sincerity because and
that's not because he made a full decade of making
hyper aggressive music, because he hasn't, right, But I think
he's shown in the decade since the multifaceted side of
him he makes the.

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
Music he makes. Yeah, I think that's it is.

Speaker 3 (01:32:12):
I think he makes music that is so representative of
where he is at at that moment. So coming up
here where he is at his like rock bottom lowist,
really he makes this kind of like scathing, bitter hardcore
record that again it's not all kind of angry about music,
but even you know, the rock songs on this they

(01:32:33):
are bitter and angry, they are I Hate you and
I wish you would die, like it's stuff like that.
And so this album was just kind of like this
like re explosion of him, just kind of like letting
out all this or pent up frustration of how the
last few years have gone and just kind of like
lobbing out there as a grenade to.

Speaker 2 (01:32:48):
Sort of hardcore.

Speaker 3 (01:32:50):
And it put Frank Carter back on the map as
kind of like holy shit, And it was meant that
like this year of this band was almost like so
short lived because on the next album there festival main
stages and playing bricks and Academy and.

Speaker 2 (01:33:04):
Shit like that.

Speaker 3 (01:33:05):
So it was kind of like you had to be
there in twenty fifteen if you wanted to see Fanko
and the Rattlesnakes decimate the Fine Corks on the board lines.

Speaker 2 (01:33:12):
And I was there, and holy fucking shit was at
a time.

Speaker 1 (01:33:15):
Yeah, But how's this for a decade though? Right? Going
from that point of you know, being dismissed by lots
of people who likes the heavier stuff because of the
Pure Love record, then coming in with this kind of
you know, really small from the ground up again punk band.
Those first couple of Rattlesnakes albums are you know, they
were so exciting as a proposition at that point in time,
and then and he kind of became this sort of

(01:33:37):
like folk hero of the people again right for a
second time when the Rattlesnakes were coming up. And then
you know, depending on who you ask, but he arguably
kind of creatively went off the boil again with the Rattlesnakes,
and then you know, it came back from that a
little bit, and now the Rattlesnakes are gone and now
he's fronting the sex Pistols. What a mad tenuere fucking

(01:33:58):
trajectory that is.

Speaker 3 (01:34:00):
I've been back to that again, like watching him punch
a guy in the face out of the board line
released show for the song because the guy like so
the guys being a dickhead and like getting in his
face and grabbing him. So he just decked him and
it was like you that's a warning shot basically, and
you're like, that guy's finding the sex Pistols now, Like mental,
I think like.

Speaker 4 (01:34:19):
That in a way, this record, maybe outside of the
ones you do with Gallows, it might be the most
important record he's ever done the biggest, the realbums that
aren't of this where which are certainly more popular, more
streams and all that sort of thing. But I don't
know if people would have gone with the Rattlesnakes if
it weren't for Blossom. I think if he went straight
from pure Love into modern ruin, I think in a

(01:34:39):
way you kind of needed to get those old people
back on board because people are so desperate to love
Frank Carter again. It is the impression I get like
it was it was almost like a bit of breakup.
It was like you want to like them, you want
to forgive them, but you know that one line in
that one pure love song, and they couldn't look past it.
But like you said, you come up with jogging or

(01:34:59):
you come back with record, you get those people back
on side again and then you can kind of take
them with you and go somewhere new. But I do
think if it wasn't for this album, despite being I
would guess maybe one of the least popular ones under
the Rattlesnake's name in terms of streams or like sales
or anything like that. Without it, none of this.

Speaker 1 (01:35:18):
Happens, absolutely and like this is a record that again
all the ones I put on to revisit for this,
it's one of the ones I know really well just
because it was it was such a consistent fixture of these,
you know, couple of years and again seeing them live
and stuff. And it's a short record, you know, and
it just every track, even again I Hate You at
the end is some turned into this bizarre sort of

(01:35:39):
like feel good possy, you know, festival song, but every
song basically is furious and it's full of classic songs
this and like the production is really like it's violent
and nasty in a way that we haven't really heard
a lot of certainly vaguely mainstream punk albums in the
last ten years. Sound like like Frank sounds like he

(01:36:01):
is eating the microphone on it, Like it's so like
intentionally distorted, and Juggernaut, Trouble Fangs, Devil Inside Me, Paradise,
like the track list Loss, Yeah, it goes fucking crazy, aside.

Speaker 3 (01:36:15):
From you know, the one ballad kind of following Loss,
which again just kind of feels like the angler is
like burnt out and.

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):
It's just hit after he have to hit. The guitar.
Tone on this album is fucking perfect. I adore it.

Speaker 3 (01:36:27):
When I think about to that opening rift to Juggernaut,
or like the skip on the Rift of Fangs, which is.

Speaker 2 (01:36:33):
Like my favorite one on the record.

Speaker 3 (01:36:34):
I think Fangs like one of the just like the
most of like perfect and just like hit of what
a punk rock song should be, where it is like
full pelt raging but fun and catchy. Like everything about
the sound just kind of just feel so perfectly like
pitched and said, like I say, production vocal performance. Like that

(01:36:54):
end part of Loss where he is like breaking down,
you do kind of feel likeize like maybe he is
like there is no character, but like it's it just
feels so authentic in that moment of like this is
the emotion he's feeling right now and he is pouring
it out there.

Speaker 1 (01:37:08):
Yeah, here's the unfortunate flip side of this though, that
I am going to bring in. Gallows were also still
a thing in twenty fifteen, right, releasing albums. Like I
just said, you know, twenty fifteen is only six years
gone from Great Britain, which now feels like a whole
other era of you know, classic album, but it was
still fresh at the time, and this is the time

(01:37:28):
that you know, the way the era Gallows would going.
In twenty fifteen, they released Desolation Sounds and Blossom is
you know, my favorite Rattlesnakes record. I think there's about
three of their albums that I would say like I
particularly love, and this being the one I have the
most fondness for. I think if you wanted to call
it a classic punk record from this decade, I could

(01:37:51):
go with that easy. It fucking rules. I don't think
it's as good as Desolation Sounds, which is the least
spoken about Gallows record, to the point that it wasn't
even you know, it's not on those episode, right, Like
people talking about Gallows was kind of done. Like if
they'd gone with them on the self titled certainly Destolation Sounds.
Maybe because it's stranger, more broad, experimental, whatever, people weren't

(01:38:12):
really talking about it as strongly, and people didn't think
to put them in an episode like this because they weren't,
you know, talk of the town anymore. But they were
still fucking unbelievable. And the sad flip side of that
is here we are ten years later, and yeah, the
Rattlesnakes have gone, but as I said, Frank is still
a picture Gallows are seemingly gone permanently now because there

(01:38:34):
was a time in those ten years when they very
briefly showed their faces again, and god, I'm so grateful
they did because it meant that, you know, in some
shape or form, I got to go to Gallows shows
and I literally have like the art print over there
from the house of Ann's show. You know, it's a
really happy memory for me that weekend of seeing two
Gallows shows. But the fact that post COVID they never

(01:38:56):
came back again, and now you know, we're here ten
years past their being a Gallows record and arguably my
favorite hardcore band certainly the UK has ever produced. Have
been just m Ia for ten years, to the point
that again we never really formally got a breakup, did we.
But I feel like we all know right now that
Gallows are a defunct band. That makes me sad.

Speaker 3 (01:39:19):
I mean like I was again with Gallows on Deserlation,
sound like I wasn't you know, Oh Frank's back in
this now.

Speaker 2 (01:39:25):
I don't need Gallows. I was there for both.

Speaker 3 (01:39:27):
But it is it is a shame that like certain
people probably were just kind of like, well.

Speaker 2 (01:39:31):
Now Frank's doing this.

Speaker 3 (01:39:32):
We don't need this way to a Gallows particular, an
album where they were doing their kind of weirdest, most
experimental stuff, which I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:39:40):
Again, it's funny because there's someone that say some that.

Speaker 3 (01:39:43):
Is so like spiritually linked to Great Britain in terms
of like the experimentation that sounds. But it just felt
like at that point, the majority of people were just
happy to have Frank back doing this, and it's a shame.
Yeah that's by me out now having to of like thinking,
I fucking love this rautle sn examine it is like, yeah,
it's the year album stops going about Gallows.

Speaker 2 (01:40:04):
Bumma.

Speaker 5 (01:40:06):
Oh, Desolation Sounds is fucking wicked. It's both like a
fitting end for Gallows because it's the most bold sort
of creative statement yet. But on the other hand, I'm like, god,
I would love to have seen what the fifth and
sixth and seventh Gallows albums would have sounded like if
they were like willing to do this. It's really it

(01:40:31):
just sucks. I miss Gallows so much.

Speaker 1 (01:40:34):
Yeah, I think Desolation Sounds is too mature for people
who just wanted to like, you know, get into punch
ups or whatever at Gallows shows. But that's a different thing.
Like I said, the fact that they they came back
within the ten years of T and M, but then
it was so so brief, and Deflations is still the
last Gallows record is the sad other story. But Frank Carter,
even with the Ratlesnakes now gone, you can't say he's

(01:40:56):
not doing well kind of. He's the front man for
sext Pistols now, So there you go. So that was Blossom,
the final album that was included in the first episode
of That's Not Metal, that came out ten years ago,
and this is of all of these, I think this
is the most serendipitous one for us here ten years later.
I am so maybe they knew what they had, but

(01:41:18):
I'm so happy that this was the lasting final note
of the first episode of T and M, and we
can now talk about it ten years later. Was employed
to Serve's debut album, Grayer Than You Remember, And compared
to every one of these other bands, this is a
totally new discovery, right. Obviously it's debut as it is record,
but you know, people knew as it is because they

(01:41:38):
were fucking, you know, a pop band, Davy Ratsnake's record,
but people knew Frank employed sir coming onto That's Not
Metal was basically a band that people had not heard
of because it's a tiny record from an upcoming UK
sort of mathcore at the time band, and their featuring

(01:41:58):
was like, oh, here's an introduction to a new band.
And I think that is a great way not only
to have kicked off That's Not Metal, but it's a
great one to end on for this little run through
of those ten albums, because they are the band of
these where we've seen their blossoming, right. I think they
they almost they with their inclusion on the first episode,

(01:42:21):
they set the standard for That's Not Metal in terms
of new bands being championed, because's not just oh here's
a new band with a good record, it's a one
of the fucking best bands with an amazing record. Like
it's incredible again, just timing and everything that they came
up with, not one of these bands who are briefly
liked at the time but maybe forgotten about, but a
band who are still beloved today and a record that

(01:42:43):
I still think is like it goes to toe toe
to toe with anything in its realm to have come
out in the ten years since, and I think you know,
like That's Not Metal was one of the very first
places to champion employed to Serve on this record, and
then two years later on their next album they had
Kerrang's Album of the Year. But the decade that employed
Serve and how they sort of went from this, you know,

(01:43:03):
launch pad is it does defy belief in some ways,
but it's just I just again, I love the serendipity
of final album includes on the first ever of the
episode That's Not Metal and we look back on it
ten years later and it's fucking grayer than you remember.
You know, an album that no one knew at the time.
But holy shit, if you're anything like me, you still

(01:43:25):
hold a place for a ten years on.

Speaker 3 (01:43:26):
I mean like, oh, I was, I had this album
vinyl before this episode of TNM went out.

Speaker 2 (01:43:31):
I was, I was in on the Blood sef.

Speaker 3 (01:43:33):
But I mean, you're right in that anyone employed seven,
anyone was like this is the standard of newer band.
TNM is going to be championing, Like we're not just
going to be picking any old new bands that are
the flavor of the month, that the that Krang Rocks
and whatever are pushing. This is what you know, they
talked about like the stuff that is going on in

(01:43:54):
the rock scene at the time, and this almost felt
like their pickle, like yeah, but this is what you need.

Speaker 2 (01:43:58):
To actually know about.

Speaker 3 (01:43:59):
Yeah, and it's fucking grad and you remember I points,
oh my god, Like going back to this album, I
was just like, ah, it's a warm blanket. It is
like again, it's a violent, like frantic, insane called math
core hardcore record. But if you're in on that, there
is just something about the sound of this like debut

(01:44:20):
employed to serve album that just kind of felt like.

Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
Oh, we've got one of these.

Speaker 3 (01:44:24):
Like again, like you know, we've had Palmrino a couple
of years before, but in puts some on this debut
n felt kind I was like, now, but that there's
something else there. You know, this is about one their
debutar I'm writing bones to Break, which, again, like on
your like scrappy, mathy hardcore album is your debut, You're
doing a song that is hinting at your kind of
more glorious, expansive future that you're almost immediately going to

(01:44:46):
get an album too. It's there's a reason why that
I like said they were the band picked and sort
of represent the new wave that's coming through that you've
gotta be in on.

Speaker 4 (01:44:57):
I think it's so cool that of all the sort
of early t and En bands and what they went
on to do, and some have been bigger so like
some have gone away, like the path have diverged quite
a lot for those bands Employed to Serve being both
the nastiest and heaviest and sort of cruelest sounding of
them and also being the most dependable in a way

(01:45:17):
where they've never really gone away. They've at leased five
albums in the ten years, which is amazing. You know,
that's pretty uncommon nowadays. Often bands will take longer stretches
between records and the amount of change we've seen between
those records, because my favorite Employed Serve records are the
first two personally, but I think you're saying are the

(01:45:39):
more expansive sound. It's not that they would been that
off after the second record, but already on the third record,
and on the fourth record, and again on the fifth record,
they're going further down in avenues, which these kind of
bands just don't do. Like the concept of a nasty, mathy,
borderline power violence band deciding to go sludgy and miss

(01:45:59):
some topic and a bit post rock and that sort
of thing. It's impressive, but other bands have done that
sort of thing. The path that employees to serve have
gone on is kind of uncharted, that thing of being like,
we're gonna bring like groove metal and do like the
good Juras main stages and we're gonna, yeah, we're gonna
write like Pantera bangers.

Speaker 2 (01:46:19):
Mark of the Great come on, Yes, certainly not a
British band.

Speaker 4 (01:46:23):
And going back to this sort of you know, primordial
thing that it comes from. It's it's just it's it's
so rewarded.

Speaker 1 (01:46:31):
Yeah, I mean imagine going back to that first episode
that's not at all and hearing grayly Remember and saying
in ten years time, they're gonna have guest features on
their album from Jesse Leach and Will Ramos and stuff
like that, and they're gonna they're gonna open for Kadjira.
That is absolutely unthinkable to the world which Grayly Remember
was released into. And again it makes me really happy

(01:46:51):
that in that first episode, just for our purposes here,
like you know, if if this had been a Black
Peaks album or you know, like the Heck album or
you know, Ithaca or someone, right, we would be here
having a different conversation. Can we be talking about what
a great band they were, but how you know ten
years later something has been lost by their departure, Whereas

(01:47:12):
I think, almost like the story of UK metal over
these ten years, you can track employ to serve through
it as an almost through line and see where they've
gone and how they've evolved and all this stuff, and
even you know, like like personally they have become They're
not just a continuously great band, but they have become
people who almost like they are crucial weight bearers for

(01:47:34):
the scene of UK heavy music through their work with
you know, the labor and putting on bands and all
this stuff, where Like you know, countless bands who come
through on are like release round ups and stuff will
be on church Read records and the kind of steadfast
you know, cementing of that. In the ten years from
this record, you know, they are kind of a different band.

(01:47:56):
I mean, most of the members aside from Justin and Sammy,
are you know, different from what they were on this record.
I do think it should be remembered that these first
two albums I believe are like seminal UK underground records
of this era. They've gone on to be something different
and they're brilliant at it, and God bless that evolution.
But these first two, as a slightly different beast are

(01:48:19):
they were such cornerstones of this sort of scene at
this point in time if you were into it, and
my memories of the era, you know, I mean, I've
at the time kind of this sort of mathy end
of hardcore was something that I was not as really
familiar with as I am today. Right at the time,
I was sort of like casually into Dillinger. I hadn't
yet gone really into like Botch and Norma Gene and

(01:48:40):
stuff like that. And like one of the earlier impacts
of TNM on me as a fan was like three
albums like this and then things like the hardcore specially
they did and stuff like that. It was like there
was this other sort of side of the world of
hardcore that I had not fully got my footholding yet
that I managed to do so, and I hold this
album quite dear as you know, a part of that.

(01:49:00):
I still love this album so much, like for such
a ridiculously chaotic album where this has more like wild
changes of pace per thirty seconds than most whole employed
serf songs have now because of their way, they've lent
more into kind of grooving conventional song strutures and stuff,
But those micro pockets of groove, every single one is

(01:49:21):
still embedded in my brain because of how much I
rinsed this album and went crazy at their early shows
and like lots of my favorite employee serf songs watching
films to forget I exist. The the weird like creaky
dissonant man bit in the title track, Yeah I love
the little like oh shit kind of catched them while

(01:49:41):
they fly past you gang vocal drops with the you
know last the will to live or the will to live?
All this well, aren't you?

Speaker 4 (01:49:48):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:49:48):
Those were the moments in employed shows back in the
day for me to get that yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:49:53):
To live, that's the one that sticks to me. There's
so many great moments record.

Speaker 2 (01:49:58):
I love it, Yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (01:50:00):
You know, obviously the vast pajorit those songs basically all
of them are you know, you're not gonna find employed
yourself songs these days, But like Beg for Rain, that
moment was fucking it right at that time, and no
one perfect This includes you was always my one for
just the riff making you just like throw hands that
is it's so brilliant and and like you're saying, the
influence is that they would follow up the you know,
ways to write more again more like expanded, fleshed out songs,

(01:50:22):
all this stuff. But some of the influences that were
here that weren't we there aren't really there now, like
the screamer in stuff like you know, bones to Break,
Oh and I think you know stuff like that, or
like Cold of the Rest at the end, the really
moody stuff that again up to kind of like Warp
for din Sun they used to do more of. I
don't know how they would integrate this stuff into what
they are now, but god, they were so good at it.

(01:50:42):
And like I've badgered Sammy about anniversary shows and stuff
like this for this and Walk for the Dying Sun,
And you know, I'll leave that up to them when
and where they just if they decide to do it.
But this record and in follow up, but you know,
for our purposes, this one today I hold so fondly
and I do feel against seminal of the time and
the fact that we can look at it as the

(01:51:04):
last album that was brought forward on the first episode
of the T and M of just like, hey, here's
a new band, right, and in a way that is
what set T and M on its course of like, oh,
people want to hear Employed to Serve and they want
to hear these bands like Employed to Serve who they're
on the cover of karrang a few years later, but
they fucking weren't at the time. You know. It's like

(01:51:25):
I said, it's a beautiful thing sat here ten years
later for our you know podcast birthday going greater than
you remember. What a beautiful album to set this you know,
show on its course.

Speaker 4 (01:51:36):
Yeah, I think like it kind of I can't really
add too much what you've said there, but it sums
it up so perfectly as a way to go out,
because you know, the last album and the show is
often the one you know, we with you arms, you know,
month and month out. The last one is often a
sort of oh and check this out if you're interested
and employed to serve being a band of this stature

(01:52:00):
and this great at the time, and this different from
what the mainstream was pushing it. Kind of Yeah, I
think you said about putting on its course. It just
it it sort of gave like a north star which
you get aim towards again.

Speaker 1 (01:52:12):
Yeah, absolutely. So that was the final album of the
ten that were included in the very first That's Not
episode that came out ten years ago right now. But
like I said, when we were thinking about, you know,
ten years of TNM, I know this from the audience
as well, because people went, oh, that must mean it's
ten years since you know that album came out or whatever.
There are a couple of other albums from the early

(01:52:34):
episodes of t and M, basically the second episode of
TNM that people also thought strongly about, and so I thought,
just to get some sense of sort of completeness about
this and really wrap up the sort of the era
which TNM was, you know, coming into we're also going
to have a little discussion, as we just have for
those ten about two more albums that were featured in
the second episode of That's No Metal. And can we

(01:52:56):
just appreciate, whether you like his albums or not, how
fucking blockbuster that is that imagine you back when we
still did the three album reviews a week format, having
Iron Maiden and Bring Me the Horizon both released albums
that week, Where which one do you choose to go first?
You know, it's like absolutely crazy things Like I said,
the timing of when T ANDM started off having these

(01:53:17):
things basically in its lap, let's start with bringing the Horizons.
That's the spirit which led to the second episode of
T and M. And again if that first episode was
kind of catching up with what had happened over you know,
twenty fifteen. Thus far, this kind of feels like the
first seminal kind of blockbuster album of basically the TNM years.

(01:53:40):
Does not mean it's a universally agreed upon one, though,
it does it ten years from that's the spirit. How
does that make people feel?

Speaker 3 (01:53:48):
I mean ten years of not caring about Bringing the Horizon?
But yeah, like that spirit I was I was clinging on,
I was hoping to be in on this album, and
it was. It was the falling off point, but undeniably,
you know, a huge pivotal album and kind of like again,
chouting the course for mainstream metal and metal core for

(01:54:12):
the next ten years. It's made my job of being
metal cores like Soldier a lot harder.

Speaker 1 (01:54:17):
Yeah, I mean you can't. You can't shrug this one
off like a venom, right, Like, this is an album
that's ten years later, fucking enormously significant.

Speaker 2 (01:54:26):
Absolutely, Yeah, and it was.

Speaker 4 (01:54:28):
It's interesting looking back on it because at the time
over so much was made that this is such a
striking move for Bringing Me the Horizon. Because you compare
it to the records that directly preceded it, and even
said paternal which has you know, Lincoln Park moments and
big Molodo course and that sort of thing, it feels
like such a departure from that. Ten years later, it

(01:54:49):
kind of seems like the blandest Bring Me the Horizon record.
And that's not to be a marketed songs but purely stylistically,
it has kind of the least attention grabbing stuff going
for it, because the thing at the time was, oh
my god, they sound like thirty seconds to Mars. They
sound like, you know, they've gone full melodic Lincoln Park,

(01:55:09):
which they ended up going more garish than maybe they've
ever been, at least in the twenty twenties. So this
record kind of is like it's the weird cold Play
moment for them.

Speaker 1 (01:55:18):
I agree with that in terms of, like I think,
I don't think this is anywhere near the worst Bring
Me the Horizon record. I think everything they've done since this,
I think is weaker than That's the spirit, And there
are albums of theirs that I would say are comfortably
like down the worst things that they've done. But I
agree that those albums are like more garish is one word,

(01:55:41):
more strange, more like what are they doing there? You know,
like this is in a way the most kind of
plane Bring Me the Horizon album. Yeah, you know, it's
the most plain Bring Me the Horizon album. I don't
think that makes it their worst album, because they've made
weirder albums that I think are worse. But it is
like you've just described sort of their most age. Yeah,

(01:56:03):
that their most just agreeable.

Speaker 2 (01:56:07):
Agreeable is the nice way of putting it. I mean things.

Speaker 3 (01:56:10):
I actually go back to this album. There are a
couple of really good songs on this album. I mean,
happy song is actually no pretty big as a sort
of like a festival mainstage rock song. Throne is faint,
as we've all established many.

Speaker 1 (01:56:25):
Times, though I think, I I mean, I'll here's my
hot take. Thrown is better than faint. Faint is a
great song, is it? And I know, like someone who
grew up on Linky Park like you, Saba, is going
to say that Faine is a great song. Throne is
one of the best like hit songs of the twenty
tens for our world, Throne is for everything you say
about this album, Thrown is fucking exceptional. There's a reason

(01:56:46):
they still close every single show with it.

Speaker 5 (01:56:47):
What are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:56:48):
That's the thing, Like, I.

Speaker 3 (01:56:50):
It's not as good as Faint That is an absurd take,
but Throne is massive, like like that, that's that is
huge and I'm not gonna do that that Like those
two songs, you know, like either they don't just start
the record Dune, which is fucking awful, starts the record.

Speaker 2 (01:57:04):
Like the slow moments on this album are abysmal.

Speaker 3 (01:57:08):
I think like oh No, as a closer is bottom tier,
like genuine contender for worst.

Speaker 2 (01:57:14):
Bringing the Horizon song True Friends is hilarious.

Speaker 1 (01:57:17):
It's not as bad as fucking what's the yummie song
they did?

Speaker 2 (01:57:24):
But Dive VI You is garish and memorable. Oh no,
he's like a piece of paper.

Speaker 1 (01:57:28):
We're jumping really into again. The the dichotomy that exists
between bring these you know audience at the time, which
was you know, this is the divide that opened up
at the time. To some degree, it's still the divide
that exists ten years later. I've always liked this album,
like I'm a I'm a certified fan of Bring Me's
Up until at least AMMO. Like I said, I think
the highs on this album are classic bringing the Horizon

(01:57:50):
tier at its worst. I don't there's anything on I
you know again, I can totally accept that the weakest
moments on this are the most kind of like beige,
you know, not that attention grabbing. I think there are
as an album, there's a few too many songs in
the sort of mid and bottom end that have like
a similar feel and pace and structure and everything where

(01:58:11):
they could do was swapping something in. It's a bit
more you know, explosive. But I think the heavy hitters
are unavoidable. What again jumped out of me here is
like Bringing the Horizon in so many ways were like
the I mean, there was a point going into the
twenty twenties where we just got completely tired of talking

(01:58:32):
about them and we just like didn't want like we
just washed our hands them. Whether we again, people had
different feelings on the quality of their output, but just
the conversation around them were so exhausting. We were like,
I don't want to be fucking you know, I don't
have to waste my time joining that conversation right now,
you know. But I mean, Elliott, you were reading your
leeds like the other day, right and bringing the Horizon headlined?

(01:58:53):
Did you see them?

Speaker 4 (01:58:54):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:58:54):
I was.

Speaker 4 (01:58:55):
I was there for the Hosier Day.

Speaker 1 (01:58:58):
Okay, correct choice?

Speaker 2 (01:59:00):
Was you in chaperone?

Speaker 1 (01:59:01):
Correct choice?

Speaker 4 (01:59:01):
This is not this is not my choice. I was
out voted. I'll put it down to that democracy doesn't work.
I was forced to anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:59:07):
I thought you might have gone for the big limp biscuit,
you know, New Metal waror day. Yes, but anyway, yeah,
I mean chapelone, you know, fair enough choice. What I
was gonna say was they are they are in thrones
now right, like they headline stuff like that, and Bringing
the Horizon were so the like everybody were hanging hopes

(01:59:28):
on them. I think in twenty fifteen, right, the follow
up thecemb paternal by twenty twenty, like I said, I
think that's when the conversation people got exhausted by having
to talk about Bring the Horizon twenty twenty five. I
know how little we talk about Bringing the Horizon, Like,
you know, they put out that Post Human Next Gen
album was it like last year. But since you know,
between that that released that album and we reviewed it

(01:59:50):
and then then headlining reading just now, that's a year
where I just haven't thought about bringing the horizon, you know,
and they've kind of they've become for who were the
most inescapable band. Maybe it's because that what has kind
of come through after them has kind of like grabbed
the limelight and become the hot topic discussion thing. But

(02:00:12):
they've become sort of just like background noise to a degree,
and I think it's you know, you can you can
applaud them the fact that they go and headline ready
and leads and they are again big arena band. I
saw the post Human tour last year what everyone's couple
years ago, and it was great. But they have ten
years on from this become like a everyone knows they're
at the kind of relative peak of the mountain for

(02:00:34):
what rock and metal is at the moment. But we
don't actually seem to hotly debate to bring the horizon
so much the way that we did when that's the
spirit was coming out, because we've all moved on to
hotly debating bad omens and sleep token instead.

Speaker 5 (02:00:46):
Yeah, we don't talk about Bringing with the Horizon because
everyone else's it's almost like, yeah, the food Fighter is
our Lincoln Bark or something like, there's no or my
chemical romance. There's no need to talk about everyone else's.
I have such a funny relationship with Bring Me the Horizon,
and that's the spirit. In general, I borderline parasocial before

(02:01:11):
that spirit. I love Bring Me the Horizon so much
like send pattern on there, there is a hell I have.
There's a help framed on my wall over there, like
I was so in. I was so invested, like they
were my band. And that's the spirit. You'll remember this parent.
This is a part of my personality you're familiar with.

(02:01:31):
I will trick myself into thinking I like albums because
they're from a band I like. And that's the spirit
was so painful where I was like no, no, I
do nah, and then I hated it and then I
just sort of go back and forth on it. What
strikes me we're visiting it ten years later, is it
is sort of this important. It is sort of more

(02:01:53):
than se paternal really where Bring Me become the band
they are today. It's a real cementing of an album. Yea,
but what strikes me is how much it plays like
a singles album rather than an album of songs, because like,
like we say, True Friends is fun. I like that
obviously happy song and Thrown our bangers. Every other song

(02:02:16):
on it fucking sucks. It sucks, drowned sucks. Oh no sucks.
Follow you sucks, follow you sucks.

Speaker 4 (02:02:24):
I follow you do suck.

Speaker 5 (02:02:25):
Man I And it's weird that this is like the
Bring to the Horizon album because it's so boring and
it's so bland. Even the album cover is boring and
bland like. But I, like you say, Thrown is undeniable,
happy song is undeniable, and maybe maybe I'm a child

(02:02:46):
like Obviously, after this point, I accepted they're never gonna
be my band. They're never gonna mean as much to
me as when I heard Crucify Me. So I just
sort of embraced the cartoony stuff. I embrace Die for You.
But it's the stupid, like one hundred gyex songs on
the new stuff, because I like big brush stupid songs
because I'm a big brush stupid man. But I don't know,

(02:03:12):
I find that's the spirit sort of mind numbing to
think about, because it's not an album. It's three songs
surrounded by marsh.

Speaker 1 (02:03:21):
Yeah, I don't agree. I like I said, I agree
that it is too When you say it almost plays
like a singles collection, I think that's the most I
would agree with a point you made there. And I
think it's kind of because they follow they follow similar structures, right,
Like I was saying, you know the non you know
gargantu and heavy hit songs I've been around, there's lots

(02:03:41):
of that are kind of interchangeable. I think Doomed is
a great song, and I know that you're all going
to jump on me for that, but I don't care.
I think it is, and I do think people out there,
many of them will agree with me. I don't feel
the need to defend like oh no, or follow you.
I don't mind those songs, but I don't feel the
need to go to bat for them. Doom Doomed, I
think is great, happy song, Thrown is fucking exceptional. I
don't mind true friends in the mid ort of mid tier.

(02:04:01):
I like, you know, I like what you need. I
think Avalanche is pretty good, you know, the bringing the
horizon style pop rock songs before they turned into broken songs.
I think it's a different between this and again some
of the later stuff that you were like, oh no,
die for You is good actually because I can sort
of ironically, you know, yeah, like it's dogshit, whereas this

(02:04:22):
is not dog shit. It's actually well kind of you know,
constructed and put together. But for what I think about
this album, which is again a like mostly pretty strong,
you know, sort of singles type collection album from a
band who were again comparative the quality wise, it's different
from what came later. But I agree with what Ellis said,
where like this is the most sort of again agreeable

(02:04:45):
one note bringing the Horizon album of those ten years,
even though I think it's I think it's the best
album they've made in the last ten years. What is
striking to me that, like I said, it's one of
the most significant records of the last fifteen years, right like,
and it is the leg I see this album a
positive one, probably not right for as much as they do.
Actually still think it's a strong album, but it kind

(02:05:06):
of exists as like background wallpaper thing. Now, you know,
it's like that's a spirit is a thing that we all,
whether you like it or not, we're all sort of
standing on that's the spirit as a foundation for conversations
about metal that have come ever since. And again amazing
timing and fascinating time that that album came second week
of That's Not Metal as a thing, and again bringing

(02:05:28):
the horizon. Are they the most definitive cutting edge top
of the mountain metal band today? I think I'd say no,
But what ease is what has undeniably come through because
of them and kind of in their image, you know,
but bringing the horizon, like I said in the year,
certainly since Next Gen came out, not a good band
or a bad band, but mostly a kind of out

(02:05:48):
of sight band, which is interesting. And finally, the second
album that was included in the second episode That's Not Metal,
we're skipping off for what the third album was there,
which is no closer to Heaven by the Wonder Years.
So sorry, Sam, you've spoken about album elsewhere you love it, But.

Speaker 2 (02:06:04):
The best album that we've talked about in this whole episode.

Speaker 1 (02:06:07):
Debatable, But in terms of like that where people were
remembering the beginnings of that start metal, these two had
to be mentioned. The second one, Iron Maiden's The Book
of Souls. We've been climbing like a monkey for ten years. Everyone,
I hope everyone's got their their climbing muscles must be
very well fucking built at this point, because climbing like
a monkey, we've been over ten years.

Speaker 3 (02:06:27):
I was tempted to try and dig out my TNM
climb like a monkey at of Hell T shirt that
was testing merch. I have that somewhere like raied Away.
I was semp to get out there. But do you
guys know the work Book of Souls because I should
as hell do not.

Speaker 7 (02:06:44):
Yeah, So so going back to the Book of Souls right, which,
you know, this is not an album that I massively
need to refresh my memory on even though I've not
beat It's like I've been listening to this album every
fucking week, because that's.

Speaker 1 (02:06:56):
A lot of time to carve out. And at the
time I was somewhat there was a weird thing at
the time where like metal Hammer I think gave us
like a ten out of ten review, and there was
there was a certain faction of Metal of I Maiden
fans who came out and proclaimed this to be not
just a very good record, but like the best they'd
done in the fucking you know since Seventh son or.

Speaker 2 (02:07:17):
Power sounded better. Yeah, and it sounded better, that was
the saying.

Speaker 4 (02:07:20):
And I and.

Speaker 1 (02:07:21):
I I did not understand that it was like, at
the very least, it's not as good as fucking you know,
brave New World Dance of death even a matter of
life and death, and the flaws in it seemed so
kind of blatant to me. So I did feel strange
at the time seeing, you know, the Maiden fans, who
which is a faction that I should be a part of,

(02:07:43):
because I'm fucking you know, I'm a Maiden fan throwing
through going like falling over themselves to proclaim this a
masterpiece when I just I was like, this is the
worst record they've made in my time of being a
Maiden fan. What do you want about? And then it's
it's the most I don't know Again, a schism appeared
somehow between again og That's not Metal, Iron Made and haters.

(02:08:05):
Fair to say gave this album a hilarious kicking of
a review based on the cartoony elements of it, like
the zombie voice at the start and the fucking climb
like a monkey and all that stuff, and the flip
side of the Iron Maiden truthers who were giving it
ten out of ten, and I was like, that's just
not true. And I was somewhere in the middle of
these things, being caught up in it. Over the years,

(02:08:27):
right again, as is natural, my position on it has
sort of not kind of eased, but it's just sort
of like, you know, it's been it's landed more comfortably
in like, yeah, the truth is between those two things,
and that's kind of okay. Elliott, what are your thoughts
about Sam? You are at the time you were the
most like ugh, I mean, I know we spent so

(02:08:48):
much time trying to and succeeding generally in like opening
up to heavy metal, but I know that twenty fifteen
was your most against this.

Speaker 3 (02:08:57):
Yeah, twenty fifteen I was so off heavy metal in general,
and this album land at a time where I just
was never gonna like it because it's two hours long
and it's a heavy metal album, and so I generally
I was like, you know what, maybe maybe I'll go
back to now and I'll be like, no, you know what,
it wasn't a bad No, it sounds fucking rubbish.

Speaker 2 (02:09:18):
This is such a bad album. I couldn't make it
through the whole thing.

Speaker 3 (02:09:22):
I was like, why is it still going like is
why does it sound the way it sounds?

Speaker 2 (02:09:28):
The production is unlistenable, the.

Speaker 3 (02:09:31):
Songs are boring, Like I genuinely this is now why
I'm like, I'm so I'm a heavy metal warrior again.
Now fine, but I still think this album is dreadful
in just about every way.

Speaker 2 (02:09:43):
Go say what you want to say about it. I've
said my piece. Well.

Speaker 4 (02:09:47):
I went into this not quite as excitedble as the
Faith in a War record, but very exciting because it
was the first Iron Maiden record, which I was I
was kind of aware of. I was a fan of
Iron main but I wasn't really aware of The Final Frontility,
the Final Frontier until it was out. And I appreciate
that the first three Bruce comeback records are the best ones.
The Final Frontier, I think is a very good album,

(02:10:09):
and it features possibly the best song they've done in
that time, in when the World wind Blows. That is
great song and the last classic Iron Maiden song I
think where it's like there's no notes, that's just perfect.
And I was so excited for this, and then I
saw the ALM cover and thought, oh, okay Oki Doki,
and then so it was ninety two minutes and thought, well,

(02:10:30):
I do like irom Maiden, so that should be tickety
Bow as well. And then I just remember hearing the
single for the Speed of Light and just the way
that opening eight seconds or so sounds like why, why
does it sound like it's stuck in a pipe. It's
like they've dropped the album in a tuba. It's like
It's just one of the funniest things about this show.

(02:10:52):
I will say some nice things about it in a moment,
but one of the funniest things about this record is
I remember when it came out and Iron Maide had
recently at least these new edphones. There is around that
time when everyone was doing headphones, and Steve Harris was
He was part of the mixing production side this time,
and he made a big thing about how he'd mixed
the album on the Iron Maiden headphones, and it was like,

(02:11:17):
that is the worst advert for both the record and
the headphones. Everything's fucked by that one decision. But and listen,
I appreciate everything you're saying. Sam. There are songs on
this album that aren't very good. The performances aren't great.
I will say this record and Sentsu coming out later

(02:11:39):
did kind of put this in perspective. I just thought, Okay,
I guess that's what I made sound like Now I
guess this is just what they're doing. I do think
there's still that Iron Maiden magic in enough place. Like
Nick McBain, you know, Bruce like with the voting, his
voice doesn't sound brilliant, but there are those moments where yeah,
the Bruce X factor, if you will, some good lead work.
And I'd be lying if I said the best song

(02:12:01):
of this record was anything other than the eighteen minute
song about an airship? So what am I supposed to do?

Speaker 1 (02:12:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:12:07):
I agree?

Speaker 1 (02:12:08):
You know, the this record is where Bruce Comeback era Maiden.
I think you can split into two eras where you know,
Braveney World through the Final Frontier. I would say I
would include that in It is Golden right, Like those
are classic albums. I love every one of them, and.

Speaker 2 (02:12:25):
They didn't come like the Final Frontier.

Speaker 1 (02:12:27):
Yeah, well they become increasingly you know, long and PROGGI whatever,
But I think everyone's albums is just sensational. Right. This
album and you know, the last ten years about I mean,
if you Will is kind of this, you know, second
Bruce Comeback era, if you want to segment it that way,
where it's the oh no, one is telling you no,
and all of your albums are really like long winded

(02:12:48):
and bloated and you repeat the same sections forty times
in every song. And the Kevin Shirley production, which was
great in the two thousands, is now suddenly you're mixing
them on the headphones and it doesn't sound right, which
I think is at it's worst on Book of Souls.
But again, the truth of like something somewhere in the middle.
I agree with the positives that Ali was just pointing out,

(02:13:10):
and I've this is such a cut and dry case
of like, oh, it's a double album that makes people
roll their eyes and like cry themselves to sleep if
they're sam and the idea just like melts your brain.
But somewhere within that there is quality. And particularly when
I saw them on the tour for this, which was
my first Eyron Maiden show, so are very fond memories

(02:13:30):
of it, the songs that they played from it in
the live environment. Again, like Speed of Light, I agree.
When it came out as a single, I was like,
what the hell is that? What's this weird? Like dad
rock song? They're doing, But when they played it live,
I was like nearly tearing up doing that, like shadows up.
That's like it's huge, it should fail. Great death or
glory Climbing like a monkey is a hilarious lyric and
God it's misguided, but the song itself kind of goes.

(02:13:53):
It's one of the shorter tracks on the record. It's
pretty pacey, and we'll get to Empire the Clouds in
a minute. There are a few songs, particularly sort of
the middle run of the second disc, that I don't
think anyone really remembers or goes back to at all.
And there are songs that could be very good, like
the title track and the Red and the Black that are.

Speaker 4 (02:14:14):
The Red and the Black.

Speaker 1 (02:14:15):
Oh, it could be very good, but they have angel
in the Gambler syndrome of repeating their good parts but
being twice as long as they should be. But again,
there has always been good stuff in the Book of Souls,
particularly when you get to the bit that Sam turned
off before reaching, which I understand. But Empire of the
Clouds is and always has been fucking like my soul sings.

(02:14:40):
When that hits, it's give it for it. Why it's
an album where they cannot fucking pace a thing properly,
and yet Bruce's solo composition of a nineteen minute song
about an airship crash is like one of their moments
in the twenty first century where they've gone for some
kind of rhyme of the ancient Mariner level brilliance.

Speaker 5 (02:14:58):
The Book of Souls is a comple gated album because
it's I will. I never listened to it in full
because it's a chore. Yeah, the songs are too long,
there's too many songs on it, and like, even though
there are I really like Spider Light. I've always liked
that song because I'm an old man. But I was

(02:15:22):
sort of like, I don't know, I was one of
those grumpy like, oh, the Book of Sols is too long,
it's stupid whatever. And then one day, a couple of
years after it came out, because I bought the album
vinyl the day it came out, because I'm like a
crazy Iron Maiden fan who does well. But I had

(02:15:43):
the day where I just spaced out every side. I
think it's like four sides, maybe even six sides of
the record, and listen to them like hours apart, and
listen to them as little like a couple of songs,
maybe one song and get into Empire. Yeah, it does
help Empire of the Clouds. All we're saying the songs

(02:16:04):
are blolted, the songs are too long. How is it
nineteen minutes long? The one song that's like perfect? I
am so like I can't be normal about this song.

Speaker 4 (02:16:18):
It reduces me to teams.

Speaker 5 (02:16:20):
I genuinely you saying the last great Iron Maiden song
is where the wind blows? No, I, this is a
mastery more.

Speaker 4 (02:16:29):
Yeah, Okay, well, yeah, I would say that the if
this song didn't sound the way it does, and I'll
ask me, I think sound great. I really like the
way the piano sounds, but like the scale of the
song with that headphone production job, if there's any My
point was more that when the Wobblers, I have no
caveats with this one. The sound of it's not the best.
But what's mental about this song is the stuff on it,

(02:16:51):
which I kind of know that I'm made in twenty
fifteen shouldn't be pulling off because you've learned that lesson.
By the end of the record, like you've gone like
Bruce's voices really starting to get strained at certain points
like some of the melodies are really sour in the years,
and then when that sort of crashing section where it
goes full yes, and that's the sort of thing to go.

(02:17:13):
If anything is not gonna work on this record, it's
gonna be that. And then I'm swept up in it.
That's like this record that I don't like I've gotten.
I've listened to it for an hour and a half.
I go, oh, we're falling suddenly in the world. But
Bruce Dickinson has built for me. It's it's a song
that kind of I was gonna say it defies belief,

(02:17:35):
but that's maybe a little bit too strong. It's kind
of hard to get your head around.

Speaker 5 (02:17:39):
Yeah, because sort of the strength of it also is
what most people would call like something that really draws
me to the song is something most people would point
at as a flaw. And it's something that sent Jitsu
has as well. Where Aaron Maiden now feel like a
treaky old like grand ship on a final yeh, like

(02:18:00):
the it's creaky, it's leaking a little bit, but it's
this grand beautiful.

Speaker 2 (02:18:06):
She's in her prime, maate, She's in her prime.

Speaker 3 (02:18:10):
Yeah, it moves freaking leaking and on its final grand
voyage for ten years.

Speaker 5 (02:18:14):
Well yeah, but the song it does creak, and Bruce
does sound aged, and he sounds like he's been like
he's on his final adventure. But that endears it to me,
and that makes it feel more special and that gives
it its magic.

Speaker 1 (02:18:30):
Yeah, I completely agree, and I think you know, going
on for when at the time they were to many
people in two thom fifteen, I made and became a
punching back right again, one of the very first that's
out shirts climb like a monkey, like Iron Maiden laughing
at how maybe it's because no one in the media
had kind of dared to laugh at I Am Maiden
for a certain amount of time. But I Am made
and word to certain types of heading usicou out there

(02:18:50):
a laughing stock in twenty fifteen. The ten years they
ten years they've had, I think have been pretty good,
and that is without they've not had some kind of
like Brave New World, you know, part two esque surging
return to like full peak glory or something. But going
into the next album, Send Jutsu, which again when we

(02:19:11):
reviewed it, we pointed out many of the same problems
that the Book of Souls has that this again sort
of particular ear of I Maiden continue with the bloated
songs and the double albums that don't need to be
double albums and the creaky Kevin Shirley production and all
that kind of thing. And I still think those flaws
do apply to the album. But that's an album that again,
as the years have gone on, I've grown to really,

(02:19:33):
at least to some strong, you know, proportion of the
album love and it's I think it's a better album
than the Book of Souls by a good matter away.
And when you're talking about the last classic Iron Maiden songs,
I would throw Hell on Earth out there, right, which
is the last song on the last currently Iron Maiden album,
which when you've seen them close with it live and
stuff it like it. It moves me in a really

(02:19:56):
intense way in the way that an Empire of the
Clouds might. And I think there are other fantastic songs
that record as well. Yea, for as long that made
me halfway, but right on the Wall is great. You know,
there's a lot of great songs on that record.

Speaker 2 (02:20:09):
There's a future past as a banger banger exactly. That's
that's the one on that reck I still think is
legitimately a banger. Yeah, and that's the song.

Speaker 3 (02:20:16):
I think Book of Souls lax is like an actual
kind of like, oh hell you, here's a heavy metal
banger moment.

Speaker 2 (02:20:21):
I get none of that from Book of Souls.

Speaker 1 (02:20:24):
I mean part of it is because that song is
death or Glory, which just makes people laugh. But the
point is send you to. I think, while a flawed
album that continues many of the same flaws as Book
of Souls, is still an album that is most of
the way magic right and looking at ten years on
of the decade of Iron Maiden right, they put out
two albums that are the most flawed albums they've put

(02:20:46):
out in the Bruce Return era, but the first one
still has a nineteen minute musterpiece song of an airship
on it. The second album is better than the first one.
The tours they've done in that time right, Like I said,
the Book of Soul's tour was great. They've had the
legacy of the Beast tour, which everyone was, you know,
raven about the somewhere in time, you know send Jukes
who combined tour they did was like a really wonderful

(02:21:08):
kind of one off event that people maybe didn't expect
they would get to see something like that. And then
just this summer now, twenty twenty five, they're doing their
fiftieth anniversary tour where they're whipping out Killers' songs they
haven't played in twenty five years, and doing their biggest
ever non festival UK headline show at the London Stadium
and all this stuff, and like, you know, yeah, the
albums have asterisks around them, and you know they've lost

(02:21:30):
Nico from the band now, so Iron Maiden they are,
you know, they're getting creakier all the time, right, But
in terms of a decade for one of these bands,
I think that's a better decade than Metallica had. It's
a better than you know, than Megadeth had. I mean
for the Deep Purple, right, Like, aside from Judus Priest,
not many bands of that vintage or era have had

(02:21:52):
a better ten years, to be honest. And that's me
saying that as the Maiden fan who was you know,
kind of torn on the book Souls and sen Jucu
when it was coming out, and I don't subscribe to that.
You know, never sounded better to use an early TNN catchphrase,
but ten years I think flawed with great merit.

Speaker 5 (02:22:11):
Yeah, Like we're talking about a band fifty years into
their career and at this point, what forty years And
it has a song on that like I would call
a masterpiece and makes me tear up, and I probably
would put it in my top ten Iron Maiden songs
like that's crazy, like I love Moth to a Flame,
but it's not in my top ten Metallica songs.

Speaker 2 (02:22:33):
I don't know if i'd said I have had a better
ten years than Metallica.

Speaker 3 (02:22:35):
Hardwired clears both Iron made and albums.

Speaker 1 (02:22:40):
It's certainly better than seventy two seasons. No, no, hard Wired.

Speaker 2 (02:22:44):
Is better than Saint Jucu.

Speaker 1 (02:22:45):
No, yeah, again, too long, but sen Jucu is way
better than seventy two seasons, like massively better. Yeah, but
Luck's eternally, I don't think that's close. That's not a conversation.

Speaker 4 (02:22:57):
I think. I think I tell your point. I would
probably agree with sound that I think Metallica over at
a stronger decade. But I think you're right. Outside of
priest Metallica, I'll give the point to you. I think
they had a better decade than Deep Purpose. I'd go
as far as to say that. But I remember when
Sinjutsu was announced and I was in the runs. I

(02:23:20):
was going I just thought, they turned these problems around
on the Book of Souls. I guess I have a
proper album cover, Let's not have a silly font, let's
make a single disc affair, let's get rid of the headphones,
And they did basically none of that. I would say
Sentence is still a better record than the Book of Souls,
even though it doesn't have one song on it that's
close to good the Empire the Clouds, in my opinion,
because it's just it's ten minutes short, and it's just

(02:23:41):
a bit more consistent. But yeah, it's twenty fifteen. Like
you say, there were certain factions of metal heads. We're
just going to iron made. They've not got tout, Like
what five years left? Ah, the wheels are falling off.
Packeting guys, you should have retired already ten years later.
It feels like you could have another five another ten years,
like who knows. It's hard to like, it's impossible to

(02:24:02):
beneate these things.

Speaker 5 (02:24:03):
It's easy to it's easy to forget now. But even
before that point, people were saying that about the Final Frontier,
mostly half because of the album title, but everyone was like,
are iron Maid and dumb? Like is this it? And
I think maybe that fooled a lot of people would
be like, Oh, they're still here, let's give them a pass,

(02:24:23):
you know, but I think maybe they're Maybe I'm following
for sort of a meta textual thing where I do
think about how much Iron Maiden mean to me and
how sad I'm going to be when Iron Maid and
theyre gone, and the fact that they do now sound
aged and like they're on their final voyage. That does
stir up an emotion in me. So even when you

(02:24:45):
know these songs are slower, they're creakier when they're good, though,
it does stir up an emotion in me where I'm like,
I'm gonna miss you so much when you're gone.

Speaker 1 (02:24:56):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think that's a conversation. So that
was the twelve albums we select from the first two
episodes of T and M in order to kind of
track the decade that TNM has had and just to
sort of compound that a little bit, I've come up
with a little list that I'm going to go through
in really like rapid fire fashion, But just just again

(02:25:18):
look back over these our ten years and from a
TNM perspective, right, not the bands that have you know,
kind of made the biggest splash in the wider world,
though some of that obviously does cross over. But bands who,
as we have been doing this for ten years, feel
like they have become you know, defining bands of these
ten years of TNM. I just want to close this
episode by listing a bunch of these out.

Speaker 4 (02:25:40):
First.

Speaker 1 (02:25:40):
I've got Turnstile obviously, who put up their first record
in twenty fifteen and today are Turnstile right ghost again.
Twenty fifteen was Meleiaura through to what they are now.
Maybe the if TNM has a flagship band, it might
be Creeper, who's like I said, Kallas Heart EP was
in those Septmber reviews and they have been with us

(02:26:03):
ever since. An unfortunate tragedy and a loss of one
of our bands who have not you know, become what
we hoped. But I think Code Orange are a definitive
of the decade T and M band architects the trajectory
that they have gone on from, you know, one of
the you know, first proper classic albums, maybe of the

(02:26:25):
TNM era, you could say, is all our gods have
abandoned us. And in terms of bands who have kept
us talking about their ongoing journey and have been, you know,
again defined the decade in some way. The decade of
Architects is absolutely that mentioned Death Tones earlier. What a
fucking crazy decade for them, going from gore eventually to

(02:26:46):
end up with what they are now good jearra right,
going from kind of you know, oh could Goodyear go
and do something really big to fucking playing the Olympics.
What are ten years for gadje era not loose right,
who in twenty fifteen were the fucking all my friend's band,
then they became the half band and now they are
not loose blood Incantation who the Interdimensional Extinction ep terned

(02:27:10):
ten a couple of weeks ago and now they are
fucking blooding Cantation and we're seeing them do what they're
doing on stage with the absolute elsewhere shows. Trivium's decade,
like I said early days, T and M review is
silence in the snow right. TNM was born into another
sort of punching bag low era for a band, but
they have absolutely defined and been a through line of

(02:27:32):
the last ten years in terms of their like roaring
back to the front of everybody's minds. A couple of
real TNM bands, when I say from a TNM perspective,
the Dirty Nil, a band who marked just saw a
free show in Canada. Higher Power, their first album right
came out in the TNM era. We've reviewed five Dirty
Nil albums in total, and we're still into them and

(02:27:53):
still like what they're doing. The Mensingers, and I actually
also think a better example of Spanish love songs as
much as idly like the Mensingers a whole lot more,
The Menzinger's released I think one of the true classic
albums of the TNM era in terms of After the Party,
but in terms of band who again a new band
who came through captured imaginations and continue to produce albums

(02:28:15):
that you know, grip people through to where we are now.
Spanish love songs are a defining that's not metal era
band mentioned them earlier in terms of that trajectory that
some of these bands that we just had longer discussions
on didn't have Parkway drive trajectory. From Aya in the
early days of T and M through to being the Megaband,
they are now Death Heaven Who. In twenty fifteen, around

(02:28:38):
this sort of time, we're releasing New Bermuda, their follow
up to their like World Conquering Sunbatha record. But what
are ten years in terms of continually proving what a
essential band of our era? We have slip knots Who
twenty fifteen they were touring the point five grade chapter cycle.

(02:28:59):
But in in terms of bad Who have kept us
talking again, they're like roaring back into form with we
are not your kind. All of just the amount of
news stories we've had about Slipknot, positive or negative, right,
they have continued to be a main fixture of our
world sleep token Right. Considering on that first that's the
metal episode. One of the things that is said when

(02:29:20):
they're bringing forward these records and talking about what's going
on in twenty fifteen is we are kind of right now.
We're waiting for a sort of never mind or a
corn moment of a band coming through and really like
changing shit or booting things up to another degree. And
whether you like it or not, you know that we
don't the closest thing we have taught, the closest thing

(02:29:41):
we have had in the ten years of t and
m is sleep Token, so absolutely a defining moment of
those ten years. Cattle Decapitation have continues to somehow become
like a bigger death metal band than you thought it
would be feasible for the band who made to Serve
Man to be with Anthroposy and Extinction and then Death
Atlas and then terrorI Site all through the TNM era.

(02:30:04):
Na Shakari are a defining band of the last ten
years of TNM era, really sing the Mind Sweep and
then releasing albums again. People have different feelings on have
been you courted, you know, divisiveness at various points with
the records at the Spark or whatever, but then making
records that people say are among their best, whether it
be The Mind Sweep or you know, Nothing is True

(02:30:25):
Number one records. Festival headliners Enna Shakari have absolutely been here.
Chelsea Wolf, I think it's in here. I thought about Converge,
but I thought on the Blood Moon kind of point,
Chelsea Wolf, I think is actually mora band or an
artist who has you know, kind of cemented herself as
like such a marker of continued, you know, artistic quality,

(02:30:45):
where through the TNM era we've got Abyss we've got
his Spun, We've got Birth of Violence, we've got the
Blood Moon record, and most recently my album of the
Year from like last year or whatever it was. Tribulation
their ten year trajectory I think of. You know, they
had kind of started to become Tribulation before this point,
but twenty fifteen on Children of the Night down below,

(02:31:06):
every one of their records that we've spoken about, we've
just been like, oh, what a treasure of a band.
This is unto others who you know, they turned up
a few years later than Grave Pleasures, so you could
also throw in here, but unto others, have been more
regular and more consistent in terms of certainly the last
six years of T and M, they are one of
our flagship bands, three bands I often kind of put

(02:31:26):
together in terms of just being on creative tears right
now showing like the best of what underground extreme metal
can be in terms of like far thinking ideas. Imperial
triumphant Arancipuzuzu and Interama are all absolutely fucking defining bands
of the ten years of TNM, Green Day releasing reliably

(02:31:48):
shit record after shit record and making us talk about
them again and again in that way they have been reliable. Malevolence,
who when T and M started were sort of oh,
you know, the a couple of years past their debut record,
what are they really up to release South Supremacy in
the TNM era, to then suddenly be oh, my god, Malevolence,

(02:32:08):
Now I reckon that band are going to headline Bloodstock
in a couple of years, like wow, what a thing.
And then Power Trip as well, I thought, which you
know is somewhat you know, they haven't released an album
in eight years now, but becoming one of the metal
bands who, like everybody young and old, everybody loves Power
Trip with Nightmare Logic, and then obviously the you know,
the tragedy of losing Riley, and then also then somehow

(02:32:29):
in the last couple years becoming a sort of like
almost a legacy band in like rapid time with their
reunion and playing shows and stuff. Those are all bands
who have made these ten years of T and M
what they are in terms of the band that we
love to talk about week in week out. And I'm
sure in your minds right now you have many many
more who have been with us through this decade of TNM.

(02:32:51):
Thanks for the ten years, everybody fucking imagine if we
get to twenty, what do you reckon? Our chances are
it's you guys who have supported us this far, So
here's to you to end off the best first step
to the future. Obviously, what is that's not metal about
but new music? So we can't be all self indulgent
this week. We've still got bads who have put albums out,

(02:33:12):
so release round ups actually right now. We did as
you know you probably know, we did our reviews episode
last week, so we have two weeks of releases to
go through. First up from last week, Hailey Williams actually
officially put out her solo album Ego Death at the
Bachelorette Party, which is the official now solidified into an
album version of those mad collections of singles you did.

(02:33:34):
So people who are worrying like, oh my god, can
I put this in my album with the year list,
now you have an official means to do so. The
Hives released The Hives Forever, Forever the Hives. I saw
the Hives at the weekend doing one of the release
shows for this and it was fucking sick. So there
you go.

Speaker 4 (02:33:49):
Great.

Speaker 1 (02:33:49):
Nova Twins came back with a record called Parasites, and
Butterflies A if you like your just like hardcore, just
like really meaty skate kind of stuff back called released
Wrong Side of Heaven A I don't think has anything
to do with the Right side of Hell, but the
Wrong Side of Heaven it is. Helloween came back with

(02:34:10):
Giants and Monsters. Unfortunately, I don't think this is anywhere
near as good as the last one, which is fucking
brilliant but shame but you know, Helloween are back with
their second album of the Pumpkins United era Giants and Monsters.
Slow Crush if you like your kind of shoegayzy stuff
released first post metal in the UK, I Believe, featuring
former members of some long you know staple bands like

(02:34:30):
Johnny Truant and stuff. From the UK underground, a band
called Ada released We Fail to Love Ourselves, progressive sort
of doom me death metal in Morning released The Immortal.
Nordic you know folk black metal mourner Garm released a
record called The Immortal Void. This is not the progressive,
weird London black metal band Void, who you reviewed many

(02:34:50):
years ago. This is a Louis Louisiana Phantom of the
Opera themed vaguely thrash band or something along those lines.
Void releasing a record called Forbidden Morals. If you want
some Scandinavian death black thrash. Death Hammer released Crimson Dawn
on Dark Descent. There's Prescription with Desolate Divine, and here
in the UK there's a horror rock band Torso with

(02:35:12):
Annihilation Day two EPs from last week Death Goals, the
punk band released Survival is an act of defiance and
in your metallic hardcore realms, I believe on coming strife
following the faced out with you. We did last yeah
with paper Wings, one of those bands all lowercase, all
one word, obviously you know how it goes. Released six

(02:35:34):
thousand days today on the tenth anniversary week of that'
snart metal. Your releases for this week come from Fleshwater,
who released their second album called two thousand in Search
of the Endless Sky. The new metal revivalists Tala release
Primevil Obsession Slash Detachment, a band who are still here

(02:35:54):
ten years later. Blessed the Fall are releasing a record
called Gallows. But Sam pulling your face at me. Here
are two things coming together to brighten your week. I
can't believe these are coming on the same day, Lar
Disputes are back with No One Was Driving the Car
and Modern Life Is War are back with their first
record in some years called Life on the Moon out

(02:36:18):
more in the UK, realm of hardcore Still in Love
release a record called Recovery Language. Glen Hughes mister Seventh
Star himself. Glenn Hughes has a solo record out called Chosen.
Dark Angel have their comeback album, the first Dark Angel
album in like thirty years. Madly Extinction Level Event is out.

(02:36:40):
The German basically sounds like Judas Priest, but German heavy
metal band Primal Fear released their record Domination. The Norwegian
kind of progressive dark rock band Green Carnation release a
dark poem Part One the Shores of Melancholia, and for
your ethereal doom heads out there, the man Faye too

(02:37:00):
on the flintser I believe that label release a record
called Labyrinthine. Thank you everybody for joining us this week
and every week. I hope you had fun casting your
mind back over those ten years with us. How do
you feel that each of those albums that we spoke
about from the first episodes of T and M have aged.
I want everybody through the socials in the Facebook group

(02:37:21):
whatever to let us know what your favorite out of
those twelve albums we did there are which you still
listen to. Next week we will be back with a
more regular hyperblasts, but we will also be adding to
the That's Not a Patreon over the next couple of weeks.
We've got our last special there, the trial of hair Metal,
New Metal and Metalcore going at it head to head,
one of the most fun formats and debates we've ever

(02:37:43):
done in these ten years. Hop on over there. If
you want to get the best of all things That's
Not Metal, please give us a rating or a review
on iTunes or whatever your podcast platform choice is. Somehow
we've survived ten years, but in order to keep reaching
new people and new listeners, we do need a bit
of help on your ends. So show your friends, show
your mum, show your co worker who needs better music taste,

(02:38:04):
show your dog whoever we've got to show those algorithms
whose boss. We will see you again next week. Bye,

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Breakfast Club

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}10 Years Of TNM, What Are The Chances

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Breakfast Club

All Episodes

10 Years Of TNM, What Are The Chances

Stuff You Should Know