May 13, 2025 • 30 mins
What happens when Borderline Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder overlap? Many of us understand narcissism and some of us understand borderline. However, what do you do when you find yourself in a relationship with a person who exhibits both narcissistic and borderline signs and symptoms? These relationships began very different than they present currently. When you are dealing with straight boilerplate BPD and the person is working on self-awareness, it can be manageable and easier to understand their responses and reactions. However, when we put narcissism in the mix which includes manipulation, a lack of empathy, exploitation of others, being demeaning towards others, and having entitlement, it changes things. Many people with codependency tendencies find themselves in these relationships. Sadly due to the stress of these relationships most people feel as though they lose their identities and they are forever trying to get the approval of the other person and coming up short. Listen to this podcast to obtain a better understanding of the combination of the two, how it presents, and how it makes you feel.
For more information on my work and coaching practice go to my website: www.ashleyberges.com
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-ashley-berges-show--1272964/support.
For more information on my work and coaching practice go to my website: www.ashleyberges.com
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-ashley-berges-show--1272964/support.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're in a good place now.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
You are listening to Perspectives with Ashley Burgets. Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
I'm Ashley, and you're listening to the Ashley Burgess podcast.
On today's podcast, I'm addressing borderline personality disorder as well
as narcissistic personality disorder, and when the two overlap. We
have co occurrence rate of forty percent with folks that
exhibit BPD signs and symptoms as well as also exhibiting
(00:29):
MPD signs and symptoms. So we're gonna be talking about
that in today's podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
You know, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
When we're dealing with just straight bordlerplate BPD, it's a
lot easier to understand and digest, it's a lot easier
to understand where that person's coming from and why they
are acting this specific way. But when you add in
MPD narcissistic personality disorder, that's when it gets challenging. That's
(00:56):
when it gets hard, and that's when it can be
really triggering because you're not expecting it because in the
beginning sometimes you see maybe the BPD signs and symptoms,
but you're not seeing the underlining MPD signs and symptoms,
and so that can be challenging for a lot of people.
And you know, we're not gonna go through all the
characteristics of both. We're gonna talk today about when they overlap,
(01:18):
especially when they overlap, and what's creating a lot of
trigger points for the other person in the relationship and
what really is challenging to the codependent who's in that
relationship with the person that's exhibiting cooccurrence of both MPD
and BPD. And this is when it gets really challenging.
(01:40):
This is when your hair is on fire. And this
is usually when I'm dealing with a lot of my clients,
when they've come to a breaking point where they can't
handle it anymore. They feel used, taking advantage of, they
feel resentment, but also on top of all that, they
feel like this need to continue to be there to
(02:03):
try to help. They can't seem to get away. And
there's a lot of reasons for that too. And we'll
be doing a lot of podcasts on this because the
information is necessary and needed because in these situations, you
need help, and you need a group of people that
can help you, not just people giving you random advice
of oh, you just need to get out of that
relationship or you know, you should have left a long
(02:25):
time ago. That's great, great, great information.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
We usually we're not in these.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Relationships because, oh, this is just kind of a one off,
or we don't have any background and it Usually we're
in these types of relationships because of the way that
we were raised, how mom was or how dad was,
and it can be a direct occurrence of what we
dealt with growing up. It's not like you find this
and this is like the missing piece. This is basically
a This is like a blind side, right, It's like
(02:52):
it's like when you're driving down the street and there's
that one part in your car that you can't see.
You gotta watch out you don't hit somebody. That's when
these relationships occur because it is your norm. Okay, it's
your norm and many of you might not agree, but
you haven't really looked at the parent dynamic yet. You
haven't really put you know, one plus one equals two,
and that's something that's very important not that.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So sometimes we have such a blind.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Side to it that it can be hard to see,
you know, and so this can be a lot of
the reasons why. So try not to beat yourself up
when you're in these situations. It's easy to beat ourselves
up and to listen to friends and family tell you
stuff that they don't really understand because they've never been
in a relationship of this challenge. They've never been in
a relationship that has pushed every one of their buttons before.
(03:36):
And this is where you are currently right now. Okay,
So I know that many of you are in a
relationship and you probably thought, Okay, maybe they have BPD,
maybe it's just PPD. But then you might say, maybe
it's MPD. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe that's exactly
what I'm dealing with.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
But what about both? Okay?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
And the both thing is when we get in the
position we're in, that can be so overwhelming. Okay, So
when you're in a relationship with somebody with co occurrence
a PbD and MPD, you're gonna see these two sides.
You're gonna have the mood swings, You're gonna have the
emotional dysregulation, right, You're gonna have that, You're going to
(04:19):
have that fear of abandonment. I mean that's extreme. And
you know what I'm saying. You might walk out the
door and they freak out. You don't answer a text
within five minutes, and all of a sudden, you're getting
this onslaught of texts, where are you?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
What are you doing?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Are you cheating on me? Da da da da da?
Calling everything else that's happening okay. But then at the
same time, you may be getting this response from the
other person that they're better than you. They they're more
accomplished than you. Uh, you know, they they want more gratification.
They need you to tell them how great they are,
(04:54):
and you know that they're wonderful. They may be very
all about a appearances, right. Some of these same individuals
really like social media, so they post all these photos
on social media of how great their life is and
the expensive restaurants that they eat at, and they take
all these pictures. And you know, I've had clients where
(05:15):
they're like, you know, hey, I go on a vacation
with my wife and my child, and it's a horrible
experience because my wife is just taking these photos over
and over again, trying to show everybody on Instagram and
social media what a great trip we're having.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
When I'm miserable.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Because she takes these photos and then she goes back
into the room or the cabin on the boat, and
you know, she doesn't want to do anything. She doesn't
want to hang out, she doesn't want to do anything
with the mood swings and what have you. And there
it is with me and the kid doing stuff, you know,
and it's hard because it's that outside persona of what
they're trying to generate. And when you're dealing with someone
(05:51):
with BPD and MPD, you're getting that. Now. If you're
dealing with someone with just straight MPD, yes, they are
going to post up everything and their need to shine,
to show what a great life they have, to make
themselves better and bigger than other people, you know, but
you know that that's an interesting dynamic. But when you're
dealing with both together, you have that person that posts
these pictures and then doesn't want anything to do with anybody,
(06:14):
is very upset, maybe feeling just empty and really sad
at the same time, and that can really drive the
codependant uh as well. So the codependan's over there trying
to make them happy. What can I do for you?
What can I get you? Can I get you something?
Can I take care of something? Can you do this?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
They can also.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Enable, right enabling that person and enabling them with drugs
and alcohol right, enabling them with all kinds of different things,
continuing this relationship and keeping it going, you know. And
it's interesting because the person with BBD obviously has an
unstable and distorted sense of self, whereas a person with
(06:55):
MPD does the same.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And the person with.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
MPD is usually they you know, they they believe that
they're bigger than everybody else, better than everybody else. They
have entitlement issues. They're entitled to this, they're entitled to that.
For example, you may work a job and you do
okay financially, and they don't work, and they don't plan
on working, but they are telling you, you know, how
you don't make enough money and how you need to
(07:19):
work more, and you know, degrading you about your job
while they haven't made a dime okay. And it's always
interesting to look at these types of situations because they're
when you have this combination. They're the first person to
point out your faults and the first person to point
out your faults. But if you try to point out
anything about them or what they haven't done, it either
(07:42):
goes on tough ears. They may even yell and scream
in the background or they might close their ears.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
With their hands and d I don't hear you.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Or they can fight dirty as well, So there's lots
of things that can go on in the situation. I
also find that it's interesting how when some one with
BPD and MPD, when they have that combination, they also
can put unrealistic expectations on everybody around them, like this
(08:11):
person needs to make this much money.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
This needs to do this, I need to have that.
You need to do this.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
You need to look like that, you need to change
your hair color, you need to lose some weight, you're fat,
you need to do this, you need to do that,
all the while though the other person's not changing or
doing anything. And I find that this is like a
boundary issue. It's like they forget that you're you and
they're them, and it's just like it's almost like they're
in charge of you. And a lot of times when
(08:37):
folks have kids, it's almost like they see themselves and
their kids as the royal we and so whatever happens
to the kids happens to them. It's very interesting, like
if a child is you know, like if their child
is doing something that they always wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Oh, this is my kid. This is my kid, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
But if not, they might shun them, you know, give
them the silent treatment, you know. And also in these situations,
folks have favorite children too. So if you're dealing with
someone would be PD and MBD tendencies, this person is
going to have a favorite. So you might be the
black sheep, You might be the favorite. You might also
(09:16):
recognize in relationships now, like even in your current marriage,
that maybe your wife or husband favors one of the
kids and not the other. Maybe you're dating somebody and
they have children, and this is happening in front of
your very eyes, and maybe you were also on this
side of the coin growing up. Okay, because remember it's
like if I have I don't have kids, but if
(09:37):
I had kids, I would love them.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I mean I hope that I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Have like a like a like a devil kid, but
I mean I think otherwise I would love them.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Just the same.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
You know, they're they're your kids, and so it's really
interesting how they can develop favorites and also you know,
helping one and making the other one like you know,
amazing and all this stuff, even if that kid is
the one that's really not that amazing, But they hold
that kid up and put the other kid down. Now,
let's look at the concept of the anger and you know,
(10:08):
the inappropriate anger as well as the rage that goes.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Along with it.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
And I find that, you know that is if it's
just straight borderline, there's an up and down right, Okay,
they get angry, it's over. They get angry, it's over.
But when you add the MPD in, there's a manipulation
component involved here that gets very excessive. So when you
add the MPD in, all of a sudden, now we're
(10:34):
not only raging, we're also manipulating the other person. We're
playing with their emotions, we're exploiting them. And one of
the things that I find is, if you're in a
relationship with someone with BPD and MPD and the very
beginning and the love bombing stage, in the very beginning,
they learned a lot about you, and you told them
(10:55):
a lot about your life, a lot about your personal lives, relationships,
past marriages, you know, things that you've failed at, you know,
And what they do in the beginning is they listen
and they seem to be so interested in giving you
all this attention, and it feels really good. However, down
the road, it's almost like they have taken like notes
(11:20):
in a legal pad, and every single thing that you
talked about failed marriages, you know, drugs, alcohol, whatever it is,
you know, they've written it down. And when the NPD
part of this person comes out, that's when this forever
ammunition or these comments come up. Oh well, you know,
at least I graduated college, or at least I don't
(11:43):
have two failed marriages, or at least I talk to
my child.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
You haven't talked to your kid in how long? I mean?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
And and then the recent stuff comes up too, because
they harbor anything that you've done wrong in their minds
and they use it to fight you and to manipulate
you in a argument. And it's interesting because a narcissist
is very good at exploiting you. They exploit you, right,
So they take anything you've ever told them and they
(12:10):
use it against you. They basically beat you over the
head with any information you've ever given them, okay, and
they will beat you over the head until you're until
you're out of that relationship. And sometimes when somebody has
BPD and MPD, Right, if it was just straight BPD,
this wouldn't happen. But because of the combination, right, they
will actually, you know, exploit you in the fact that
(12:33):
if you leave me, I'm gonna tell your family what
you did.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
If you leave me, I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Your your your work, and I'm going to your boss
and I'm going to report you. I'm going to tell
them what you did. And for some of you out there,
you're like, oh my gosh, I can't have this, you know.
I mean, I work, you know, top clearance, or I
do this for the government, or I have this or that.
I can't have this person doing this. So you stay
in these relationships and fear that they're going to expose
you or exploit you. And usually that doesn't happen. And
(13:01):
usually if there is a call made, you just have
to just kind of figure out how to segue to
that prior.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
To them calling.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
But also most people are not gonna believe it. Honestly,
I've been called several times about people I know, and
I go, hey, I can't even take this call. I
don't want to be on this call for liability reasons. Okay, sorry,
you know that I'll call that person directly and talk
to them. I don't know who you are, I don't
really want to have this conversation, and okay, let's lose
(13:28):
my number. So it's interesting because when we're going through this,
they will use manipulation and exploitation to keep you in
the relationship even though you're miserable. Now, the thing about
BPD is the splitting, right, the splitting you know also,
you know, putting you on that pedestal and then devaluing
(13:51):
you and then just discarding you and then putting you
back on the pedestal. You can do no wrong. Oh
my god, you're the most amazing guy. You're the most
amazing woman. I've never found anybody like you. Oh my god,
thank you God for being here to You're a horrible person.
I can't believe you did this. You are a monster.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
What have you?
Speaker 1 (14:07):
And you know, the other side of the coin, too,
is that when you have that splitting, but then you
add the lack of empathy and this is where it
gets bad.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Okay, So you have all.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
These emotions and you have these feelings, and it's one
thing to lash out and then you know, hey, I'm
really sorry I did that, and you know it's not
your fault. I'm really working on myself. I really probably,
I probably need to start seeing a therapist and my
coach more. I need to start working on my you know,
dialectical behavior therapy. I need to, you know, really have
cognitive behavioral therapy. I need to really start looking at
my own self awareness. But when you put the two together,
(14:45):
you know what happens here is you have that splitting.
But when you have the MPD involved, there's no empathy,
so there is no apologies. There's no apology. There's no apology.
There's no apology for anything they do. And there's a
double standard. That's the biggest thing about the MPDBPD combination
(15:05):
is this is a double standard. Anything I ask you
to do, I'm not doing. If I say you can't
you do this, or you can't hang out with these people,
or you can't hang out with people with the opposite sex,
I'm not going along with that. I'm doing whatever I
want to do. I'm just controlling you. I'm using this
as a control factor to control you and your actions
(15:26):
and what you're doing on your.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Day to day basis.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
And I feel like this part is where most people
that are in these relationships that have codependent tendencies, this
is where it gets painful because you keep giving and
giving and giving, but this person isn't You keep giving
and giving and giving and thinking, this person's gonna get better.
Maybe if I show them this love, Maybe if I
go out of my way to do this, maybe if
(15:50):
I go out of my way to do that, they
are gonna get it. They're gonna finally get it and
see that I care and love them. Okay, great, has
that worked so far? Most of the time, it's just
you are jumping through hoops in an effort to get
them to see your value, right, to see your value.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
That's all it is.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
And it's like, you know, the thing is is that
it's almost like they know they're not going to give
you that they're never going to give you the acceptance
that you want because if they give you the acceptance
that you want, well, hell, what do they have now?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
What leverage? What leverage do they have? Okay?
Speaker 1 (16:35):
But they also thing you're dealing with somebody that's not happy.
No matter how they con you into believing that they're
better than you, that they're more sophisticated than you, then
they're smarter than you.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
How much are you really believing this?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
But this lack of empathy and the exploitation of others
is where it really hurts the code of Pennant because
I think you could deal with straight.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Tolign on its own.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yes it's challenging, and yes the ups and downs are
horrible and the rage is horrible. Or the internalization of
the emotions and trying to get them out of bed
and helping and trying to figure out what to do next,
yes that's not easy at all. But when you add
these two together, that's when it becomes really super hard,
because you're dealing with somebody that seems to not be
able to get out of their way and they have
(17:22):
these issues, but yet they're a jackass about it, and
they try to make you actually they try to make
you think like, oh, you know that they don't need you,
that they don't need you at all. And that's a
problem because you're giving all of this of yourself and
an effort to help them. But well, it's not really
(17:43):
coming back. It's not coming back at all. It's actually
it's you know, the example, when you're dealing with someone
with BPD at MPD, it's like you're at this casino
and you know, you're at this salt machine you know
those those major big slot machines that have all the
colors now and all the screens, and they got buffalos
running on the screen and all this stuff's going on.
(18:04):
It's chaotic, and you put money in. It's like you know,
you put let's say you put a one hundred dollars
bill in there, right, put one hundred dollar bill in there,
and you know, Okay, you.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Lose, lose, lose, lose, lose, lose. Oop.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
You got five bucks, lose, lose, lose, lose, lose, OOP,
got three dollars, lose, lose, lose, lose, lose, OOP, got
two dollars. Okay, now you're down to four bucks and
you lose it, right, and then you put another one
hundred in Oh, I got ten. You see what I'm saying.
But you're always in a losing proposition. There's a lot
of things going on, there's a lot of drama going
(18:37):
on the screens, there's a lot of emotion, there's a
lot of energy, But you are the one that's losing
all your energy trying to take care of this relationship
and everything else in your life is falling by the
wayside because you don't have enough. I mean this takes
up like all of your energy, it takes up all
of your time, it takes up all of everything you
(18:59):
can focus on. And that's what's so really challenging about
the situation is that it's actually doing that. And so
many of you are watching your careers kind of pivot
in a negative way. Many of you have lost contact
with family and friends, and some of you don't do
anything for fun anymore. You know, I can't tell you
how many clients have boats that they haven't been on
(19:22):
their boat in over a year. I can't tell you
how many clients that literally haven't done anything for themselves
because they're too busy, worried about what's going to happen next.
They race home to try to stop arguments, they're constantly
trying to beg the other person to wake up to
get help, and then they're falling. It's falling on deaf ears,
(19:44):
and that is a problem, and it can be really overwhelming.
And you know, I don't really want to go into
all the self harm because there's a lot of people
out there that don't self harm themselves, and a lot
of people that are not suicidal. There are some, for sure,
but I think that's a separate. That's a separate on
its own. Yes, and definitely there are people that are
that will self harm. But what I see a lot
(20:04):
of times in this situation the BPD MPD combination is
that there's enough MPD that that person's not going to
hurt themselves, you know, and if they do, it's only
to get more attention. It's not to actually end anything.
It's to you know, get more attention. It's to make
(20:26):
you feel bad, it's to hurt your feelings. And I
find this usually a manipulative tactic that's used. And I
find that when these types of manipulative tactics happen, the
code of pennic gets even more connected, even if they
don't want to be into the relationship, because now we've
had like some sort of situation, you know, happen where
(20:47):
the person was going to take some pills or do
what have you, And now this person feels like now
they're indebted to try to save this person, to help.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Them wake up.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And again, one of the things that I need everybody
to think about is, you know, there's not another person
that's you're cross to bear. Okay, your cross to bear
is yourself, right, I mean, you taking care of another
person in lieu of yourself, you're missing the point, like
you need to take care of you first, right, and
when you're trying to safeguard this person, take care of
(21:16):
this person, do everything for this person. You are losing
your independence, you are losing your identity. Your life is
no longer your life now your life is the caretaker
of this person. And the problem of being the caretaker
of this person because they have BPD and MPD, is
that they don't care and you're never gonna do enough.
(21:37):
You can never do enough to make this person happy.
With this combination, they're not gonna be happy with you.
They're gonna beat you down to submission, get you to
do what they want to do, and then they're still
gonna find fault with you because ultimately they are not
happy and they're not gonna do things they want you
to do things to make them happy because that's part
(21:58):
of your duty. It's like, you know, it's like you're
working for them. You're like there's slave. You're literally they're
emotional slave that they can take everything out on you
anytime they want. You've shown them they can. You've given
them the keys, You've given them the keys to show
them how to use it. You've given them the codes
(22:20):
to know what to do. You've gave them all the
information about yourself in the very beginning that they can
use against you to make you feel like crap. Right,
and now you're sitting here going, oh my god, what
do I do now?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
How do I do this?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
So there's a part of you that's now stuck going, oh,
there was still some good times, you know, And then
there's most of it is just like you know, a trigger,
you know of the situation from childhood or from a
relationship prior, and it's a trauma bond. And so now
you are trauma bonded with this person with BPD and MPD.
(22:54):
You're the codependent who's the perfect puzzle piece for the
situation because you know, you were always fighting to do better,
to prove yourself and all that stuff your whole life,
and so now you're trying to prove yourself that you
can win this relationship, you can make this work, you
can do this, you can do that, you know, and
you're like, okay, I'm gonna prove this too. Okay, but
we need to kind of step back at some point
(23:14):
and go, what are we proving and why am I
trying to prove this?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And I need to also take the.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
You know, take take the the guys off of the
trauma von because it's not the trauma bond. Isn't love.
Trauma bond is a trauma bond. There's no, there's not
it's not love. It might have appeared as love in
the beginning because it felt so familiar and it was like, oh,
this feels so good. Oh yeah, this is the love
of my life. Oh, I can't believe I'm at this person,
(23:43):
you know. And then eventually the red flags come and
you're like, oh, I don't know about that. Huh, I
don't know about that, And here they come, and the
parade of red flags are coming, the parade of red
flags are coming, right, and you kind of overlook that
until it gets worse and worse and worse and worse
and worse, and you find yourself, you know, calling your
friend every night asking what to do. You find yourself
trying to find a you know, a professional to help you.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
You don't know what to.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Say or do, and there you are locked in basically
this concept, this psychle pattern of doing everything you can
this person loving you. Then hating you, then loving you,
then hating you, the manipulating you, then controlling you, then
trying to take you away from everybody, you know, trying
to isolate you, all the while having this lack of empathy.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
They don't really care about you, and they tell you that. See,
that's the thing is that they actually tell you things
that are just mean and cruel. And they will say
horrible things to you and then the next day act
like nothing was said, you know, the next day like
they will say horrible things to you that if you
did to them, they would probably call the police on
you and you would probably be arrested at your home
(24:50):
because you were you know, you know, because what you
were doing was wrong and you were sending horrible messages
and threatening messages, and the next day, oh, good morning,
you know, and it's there's no empathy. There's no I'm
sorry I did that, I shouldn't have said that, I
was out of line. There's none of that. And that's
something that we need to really think about too, you know.
(25:10):
I mean, but the last thought that I want to
bring up in today's podcasts, you know, it's interesting, you know,
it's that whole betterment concept. So when you're dealing with
somebody with this combination, you know, they're better than others.
They can be very arrogant and put other people down
and and and that's really challenging too, because there you are, like,
(25:31):
you know, you're dealing with this person and their struggles
and their issues, and you're trying to help them. But
yet they put other people down, they make fun of
other people. They're better than other people, and they don't
see like they don't have like a human side as
far as a self awareness piece, where you know, there's
some things that I'm lacking here and I need to
do some work on myself, and you know, just to
(25:52):
see reality doesn't exist, it doesn't exist. And you know,
you know a lot of times with these folks, you know,
they don't they will not go to therapy. They're not
going to do therapy. They're not going to do this,
they're not going to do that. They don't have a problem.
You know, they don't have a problem. Now, I think,
(26:13):
you know, when you deal with folks like this too,
they do and every relationship that they're gonna have until
they get right with themselves is going to be a problem.
But the problem is it's not really the problem with them,
it's the problem with us is why are we still
in this? What do we have to gain out of it?
(26:34):
And why are we letting this relationship control us? So
the relationship is controlling us, it's controlling you completely right,
So why are we letting it happen? Why are we
letting this relationship control us?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Because we are.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And that's where I want you to really think about,
is that That's where I think the issue is.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
That's really where the rubber.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Meets the road, because I understand if it was just
straight BPD, yes, there's a lot of issues to deal with,
and if the person's wanting to go and get some help, okay,
let's let's go down that route. But if you're dealing
with somebody that has that plus this manipultive and controlling
and non empathetic and non caring and envious of other
(27:19):
people and thinking everybody's envious to them, and you know,
it's all about appearances and these obsessions with appearances constantly,
you're dealing with all of that, and then on top
of that, it's like where does that even leave room
for you? I mean it's almost like all the error
is sucked out of the room every day by this
person anyway, And then why are you attracted to this?
(27:40):
Why do you continue to attract this? And I think
that you know, you're not attracted to it as far
as you like it. You're attracted to it because it's
a trauma bond. You've gotten into it. This is familiar space.
Now we got to look at why we've been attracted this,
what's been in our past, and why we got here.
And then you need to begin to figure out, Okay,
how do I sit there and work to get out
of this? How do I work to get out of this?
(28:01):
And what is the what is the way to do it?
You know, people quit things, quit vices very different ways.
I mean, when you think about smoking, some people can
quit cold. Some people have to use a little computer,
some people use a patch, some people use an inhalent.
You know when people talk, you know, stop alcohol. Some
people have to go to rehab, right. Some people just
stop cold, that's it. Some people minimize, they get down
(28:21):
to one drink, you know, they get two drinks, then
they're down to one drink and then they cut it out.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Some people use vitamins to cut out alcohol. Some people
need to use a pill you know that makes alcohol
taste horrible. Whatever, whatever it is, you got to figure
out what it is that you can quit this toxic
relationship and then begin to get help for yourself, because yeah,
I mean, in order to get into this relationship, it
takes two to tango.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Okay, we all have our issues.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Let's not act like, let's not act like, you know,
it's just the other person, because that's not true, because
if it was just the other person, you could easily
get out of this and move forward. We need to
deal with those code of penitendencies and why we feel
like we have to save this or why we have
created this image of this relationship in our head that's
so hard to let go. I have more podcasts coming up,
(29:07):
more about you know, BPD, MPD combination, you know, as
well as dealing with people that are not empathic and
and people that are manipulative, because the more manipulating somebody
is of you, the more they control your brain, the
more you allow it, the more you lose your you
lose your identity, you lose yourself. And that's what this
(29:29):
podcast is dedicated helping everybody that's going through these problems,
going through these issues and want to come out the
other side. You're already a little SKay, but we want
to get you out as safe as and sound as
possible and get the work that we need to further
our life to have a better life, to have a
peaceful life, and to have a successful life. If you
haven't already, check out my website Ashleyburgess dot com Ashley
(29:50):
Berges dot com. You can set up a coaching session online.
Just go to Coaching Sessions, click on that, feel it
out and it'll send an email and we can work
together one on one as well as don't forget the
YouTube channel go to life Coach Ashley Burgess.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Check out our YouTube channel.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
New video content up twice a week and in the meantime,
thank you for tuning in. Please share this podcast with
others and anybody that might need it. Please repost it
on your social media to share with others. And in
the meantime, you know, don't forget to live your true life.
And I'll be back here next with the Ashley Burgess Podcast.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Take care
You're in a good place now.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
You are listening to Perspectives with Ashley Burgets. Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
I'm Ashley, and you're listening to the Ashley Burgess podcast.
On today's podcast, I'm addressing borderline personality disorder as well
as narcissistic personality disorder, and when the two overlap. We
have co occurrence rate of forty percent with folks that
exhibit BPD signs and symptoms as well as also exhibiting
(00:29):
MPD signs and symptoms. So we're gonna be talking about
that in today's podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
You know, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
When we're dealing with just straight bordlerplate BPD, it's a
lot easier to understand and digest, it's a lot easier
to understand where that person's coming from and why they
are acting this specific way. But when you add in
MPD narcissistic personality disorder, that's when it gets challenging. That's
(00:56):
when it gets hard, and that's when it can be
really triggering because you're not expecting it because in the
beginning sometimes you see maybe the BPD signs and symptoms,
but you're not seeing the underlining MPD signs and symptoms,
and so that can be challenging for a lot of people.
And you know, we're not gonna go through all the
characteristics of both. We're gonna talk today about when they overlap,
(01:18):
especially when they overlap, and what's creating a lot of
trigger points for the other person in the relationship and
what really is challenging to the codependent who's in that
relationship with the person that's exhibiting cooccurrence of both MPD
and BPD. And this is when it gets really challenging.
(01:40):
This is when your hair is on fire. And this
is usually when I'm dealing with a lot of my clients,
when they've come to a breaking point where they can't
handle it anymore. They feel used, taking advantage of, they
feel resentment, but also on top of all that, they
feel like this need to continue to be there to
(02:03):
try to help. They can't seem to get away. And
there's a lot of reasons for that too. And we'll
be doing a lot of podcasts on this because the
information is necessary and needed because in these situations, you
need help, and you need a group of people that
can help you, not just people giving you random advice
of oh, you just need to get out of that
relationship or you know, you should have left a long
(02:25):
time ago. That's great, great, great information.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
We usually we're not in these.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Relationships because, oh, this is just kind of a one off,
or we don't have any background and it Usually we're
in these types of relationships because of the way that
we were raised, how mom was or how dad was,
and it can be a direct occurrence of what we
dealt with growing up. It's not like you find this
and this is like the missing piece. This is basically
a This is like a blind side, right, It's like
(02:52):
it's like when you're driving down the street and there's
that one part in your car that you can't see.
You gotta watch out you don't hit somebody. That's when
these relationships occur because it is your norm. Okay, it's
your norm and many of you might not agree, but
you haven't really looked at the parent dynamic yet. You
haven't really put you know, one plus one equals two,
and that's something that's very important not that.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So sometimes we have such a blind.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Side to it that it can be hard to see,
you know, and so this can be a lot of
the reasons why. So try not to beat yourself up
when you're in these situations. It's easy to beat ourselves
up and to listen to friends and family tell you
stuff that they don't really understand because they've never been
in a relationship of this challenge. They've never been in
a relationship that has pushed every one of their buttons before.
(03:36):
And this is where you are currently right now. Okay,
So I know that many of you are in a
relationship and you probably thought, Okay, maybe they have BPD,
maybe it's just PPD. But then you might say, maybe
it's MPD. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe that's exactly
what I'm dealing with.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
But what about both? Okay?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
And the both thing is when we get in the
position we're in, that can be so overwhelming. Okay, So
when you're in a relationship with somebody with co occurrence
a PbD and MPD, you're gonna see these two sides.
You're gonna have the mood swings, You're gonna have the
emotional dysregulation, right, You're gonna have that, You're going to
(04:19):
have that fear of abandonment. I mean that's extreme. And
you know what I'm saying. You might walk out the
door and they freak out. You don't answer a text
within five minutes, and all of a sudden, you're getting
this onslaught of texts, where are you?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
What are you doing?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Are you cheating on me? Da da da da da?
Calling everything else that's happening okay. But then at the
same time, you may be getting this response from the
other person that they're better than you. They they're more
accomplished than you. Uh, you know, they they want more gratification.
They need you to tell them how great they are,
(04:54):
and you know that they're wonderful. They may be very
all about a appearances, right. Some of these same individuals
really like social media, so they post all these photos
on social media of how great their life is and
the expensive restaurants that they eat at, and they take
all these pictures. And you know, I've had clients where
(05:15):
they're like, you know, hey, I go on a vacation
with my wife and my child, and it's a horrible
experience because my wife is just taking these photos over
and over again, trying to show everybody on Instagram and
social media what a great trip we're having.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
When I'm miserable.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Because she takes these photos and then she goes back
into the room or the cabin on the boat, and
you know, she doesn't want to do anything. She doesn't
want to hang out, she doesn't want to do anything
with the mood swings and what have you. And there
it is with me and the kid doing stuff, you know,
and it's hard because it's that outside persona of what
they're trying to generate. And when you're dealing with someone
(05:51):
with BPD and MPD, you're getting that. Now. If you're
dealing with someone with just straight MPD, yes, they are
going to post up everything and their need to shine,
to show what a great life they have, to make
themselves better and bigger than other people, you know, but
you know that that's an interesting dynamic. But when you're
dealing with both together, you have that person that posts
these pictures and then doesn't want anything to do with anybody,
(06:14):
is very upset, maybe feeling just empty and really sad
at the same time, and that can really drive the
codependant uh as well. So the codependan's over there trying
to make them happy. What can I do for you?
What can I get you? Can I get you something?
Can I take care of something? Can you do this?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
They can also.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Enable, right enabling that person and enabling them with drugs
and alcohol right, enabling them with all kinds of different things,
continuing this relationship and keeping it going, you know. And
it's interesting because the person with BBD obviously has an
unstable and distorted sense of self, whereas a person with
(06:55):
MPD does the same.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And the person with.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
MPD is usually they you know, they they believe that
they're bigger than everybody else, better than everybody else. They
have entitlement issues. They're entitled to this, they're entitled to that.
For example, you may work a job and you do
okay financially, and they don't work, and they don't plan
on working, but they are telling you, you know, how
you don't make enough money and how you need to
(07:19):
work more, and you know, degrading you about your job
while they haven't made a dime okay. And it's always
interesting to look at these types of situations because they're
when you have this combination. They're the first person to
point out your faults and the first person to point
out your faults. But if you try to point out
anything about them or what they haven't done, it either
(07:42):
goes on tough ears. They may even yell and scream
in the background or they might close their ears.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
With their hands and d I don't hear you.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Or they can fight dirty as well, So there's lots
of things that can go on in the situation. I
also find that it's interesting how when some one with
BPD and MPD, when they have that combination, they also
can put unrealistic expectations on everybody around them, like this
(08:11):
person needs to make this much money.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
This needs to do this, I need to have that.
You need to do this.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
You need to look like that, you need to change
your hair color, you need to lose some weight, you're fat,
you need to do this, you need to do that,
all the while though the other person's not changing or
doing anything. And I find that this is like a
boundary issue. It's like they forget that you're you and
they're them, and it's just like it's almost like they're
in charge of you. And a lot of times when
(08:37):
folks have kids, it's almost like they see themselves and
their kids as the royal we and so whatever happens
to the kids happens to them. It's very interesting, like
if a child is you know, like if their child
is doing something that they always wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Oh, this is my kid. This is my kid, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
But if not, they might shun them, you know, give
them the silent treatment, you know. And also in these situations,
folks have favorite children too. So if you're dealing with
someone would be PD and MBD tendencies, this person is
going to have a favorite. So you might be the
black sheep, You might be the favorite. You might also
(09:16):
recognize in relationships now, like even in your current marriage,
that maybe your wife or husband favors one of the
kids and not the other. Maybe you're dating somebody and
they have children, and this is happening in front of
your very eyes, and maybe you were also on this
side of the coin growing up. Okay, because remember it's
like if I have I don't have kids, but if
(09:37):
I had kids, I would love them.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I mean I hope that I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Have like a like a like a devil kid, but
I mean I think otherwise I would love them.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Just the same.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
You know, they're they're your kids, and so it's really
interesting how they can develop favorites and also you know,
helping one and making the other one like you know,
amazing and all this stuff, even if that kid is
the one that's really not that amazing, But they hold
that kid up and put the other kid down. Now,
let's look at the concept of the anger and you know,
(10:08):
the inappropriate anger as well as the rage that goes.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Along with it.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
And I find that, you know that is if it's
just straight borderline, there's an up and down right, Okay,
they get angry, it's over. They get angry, it's over.
But when you add the MPD in, there's a manipulation
component involved here that gets very excessive. So when you
add the MPD in, all of a sudden, now we're
(10:34):
not only raging, we're also manipulating the other person. We're
playing with their emotions, we're exploiting them. And one of
the things that I find is, if you're in a
relationship with someone with BPD and MPD and the very
beginning and the love bombing stage, in the very beginning,
they learned a lot about you, and you told them
(10:55):
a lot about your life, a lot about your personal lives, relationships,
past marriages, you know, things that you've failed at, you know,
And what they do in the beginning is they listen
and they seem to be so interested in giving you
all this attention, and it feels really good. However, down
the road, it's almost like they have taken like notes
(11:20):
in a legal pad, and every single thing that you
talked about failed marriages, you know, drugs, alcohol, whatever it is,
you know, they've written it down. And when the NPD
part of this person comes out, that's when this forever
ammunition or these comments come up. Oh well, you know,
at least I graduated college, or at least I don't
(11:43):
have two failed marriages, or at least I talk to
my child.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
You haven't talked to your kid in how long? I mean?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
And and then the recent stuff comes up too, because
they harbor anything that you've done wrong in their minds
and they use it to fight you and to manipulate
you in a argument. And it's interesting because a narcissist
is very good at exploiting you. They exploit you, right,
So they take anything you've ever told them and they
(12:10):
use it against you. They basically beat you over the
head with any information you've ever given them, okay, and
they will beat you over the head until you're until
you're out of that relationship. And sometimes when somebody has
BPD and MPD, Right, if it was just straight BPD,
this wouldn't happen. But because of the combination, right, they
will actually, you know, exploit you in the fact that
(12:33):
if you leave me, I'm gonna tell your family what
you did.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
If you leave me, I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Your your your work, and I'm going to your boss
and I'm going to report you. I'm going to tell
them what you did. And for some of you out there,
you're like, oh my gosh, I can't have this, you know.
I mean, I work, you know, top clearance, or I
do this for the government, or I have this or that.
I can't have this person doing this. So you stay
in these relationships and fear that they're going to expose
you or exploit you. And usually that doesn't happen. And
(13:01):
usually if there is a call made, you just have
to just kind of figure out how to segue to
that prior.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
To them calling.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
But also most people are not gonna believe it. Honestly,
I've been called several times about people I know, and
I go, hey, I can't even take this call. I
don't want to be on this call for liability reasons. Okay, sorry,
you know that I'll call that person directly and talk
to them. I don't know who you are, I don't
really want to have this conversation, and okay, let's lose
(13:28):
my number. So it's interesting because when we're going through this,
they will use manipulation and exploitation to keep you in
the relationship even though you're miserable. Now, the thing about
BPD is the splitting, right, the splitting you know also,
you know, putting you on that pedestal and then devaluing
(13:51):
you and then just discarding you and then putting you
back on the pedestal. You can do no wrong. Oh
my god, you're the most amazing guy. You're the most
amazing woman. I've never found anybody like you. Oh my god,
thank you God for being here to You're a horrible person.
I can't believe you did this. You are a monster.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
What have you?
Speaker 1 (14:07):
And you know, the other side of the coin, too,
is that when you have that splitting, but then you
add the lack of empathy and this is where it
gets bad.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Okay, So you have all.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
These emotions and you have these feelings, and it's one
thing to lash out and then you know, hey, I'm
really sorry I did that, and you know it's not
your fault. I'm really working on myself. I really probably,
I probably need to start seeing a therapist and my
coach more. I need to start working on my you know,
dialectical behavior therapy. I need to, you know, really have
cognitive behavioral therapy. I need to really start looking at
my own self awareness. But when you put the two together,
(14:45):
you know what happens here is you have that splitting.
But when you have the MPD involved, there's no empathy,
so there is no apologies. There's no apology. There's no apology.
There's no apology for anything they do. And there's a
double standard. That's the biggest thing about the MPDBPD combination
(15:05):
is this is a double standard. Anything I ask you
to do, I'm not doing. If I say you can't
you do this, or you can't hang out with these people,
or you can't hang out with people with the opposite sex,
I'm not going along with that. I'm doing whatever I
want to do. I'm just controlling you. I'm using this
as a control factor to control you and your actions
(15:26):
and what you're doing on your.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Day to day basis.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
And I feel like this part is where most people
that are in these relationships that have codependent tendencies, this
is where it gets painful because you keep giving and
giving and giving, but this person isn't You keep giving
and giving and giving and thinking, this person's gonna get better.
Maybe if I show them this love, Maybe if I
go out of my way to do this, maybe if
(15:50):
I go out of my way to do that, they
are gonna get it. They're gonna finally get it and
see that I care and love them. Okay, great, has
that worked so far? Most of the time, it's just
you are jumping through hoops in an effort to get
them to see your value, right, to see your value.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
That's all it is.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
And it's like, you know, the thing is is that
it's almost like they know they're not going to give
you that they're never going to give you the acceptance
that you want because if they give you the acceptance
that you want, well, hell, what do they have now?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
What leverage? What leverage do they have? Okay?
Speaker 1 (16:35):
But they also thing you're dealing with somebody that's not happy.
No matter how they con you into believing that they're
better than you, that they're more sophisticated than you, then
they're smarter than you.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
How much are you really believing this?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
But this lack of empathy and the exploitation of others
is where it really hurts the code of Pennant because
I think you could deal with straight.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Tolign on its own.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yes it's challenging, and yes the ups and downs are
horrible and the rage is horrible. Or the internalization of
the emotions and trying to get them out of bed
and helping and trying to figure out what to do next,
yes that's not easy at all. But when you add
these two together, that's when it becomes really super hard,
because you're dealing with somebody that seems to not be
able to get out of their way and they have
(17:22):
these issues, but yet they're a jackass about it, and
they try to make you actually they try to make
you think like, oh, you know that they don't need you,
that they don't need you at all. And that's a
problem because you're giving all of this of yourself and
an effort to help them. But well, it's not really
(17:43):
coming back. It's not coming back at all. It's actually
it's you know, the example, when you're dealing with someone
with BPD at MPD, it's like you're at this casino
and you know, you're at this salt machine you know
those those major big slot machines that have all the
colors now and all the screens, and they got buffalos
running on the screen and all this stuff's going on.
(18:04):
It's chaotic, and you put money in. It's like you know,
you put let's say you put a one hundred dollars
bill in there, right, put one hundred dollar bill in there,
and you know, Okay, you.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Lose, lose, lose, lose, lose, lose. Oop.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
You got five bucks, lose, lose, lose, lose, lose, OOP,
got three dollars, lose, lose, lose, lose, lose, OOP, got
two dollars. Okay, now you're down to four bucks and
you lose it, right, and then you put another one
hundred in Oh, I got ten. You see what I'm saying.
But you're always in a losing proposition. There's a lot
of things going on, there's a lot of drama going
(18:37):
on the screens, there's a lot of emotion, there's a
lot of energy, But you are the one that's losing
all your energy trying to take care of this relationship
and everything else in your life is falling by the
wayside because you don't have enough. I mean this takes
up like all of your energy, it takes up all
of your time, it takes up all of everything you
(18:59):
can focus on. And that's what's so really challenging about
the situation is that it's actually doing that. And so
many of you are watching your careers kind of pivot
in a negative way. Many of you have lost contact
with family and friends, and some of you don't do
anything for fun anymore. You know, I can't tell you
how many clients have boats that they haven't been on
(19:22):
their boat in over a year. I can't tell you
how many clients that literally haven't done anything for themselves
because they're too busy, worried about what's going to happen next.
They race home to try to stop arguments, they're constantly
trying to beg the other person to wake up to
get help, and then they're falling. It's falling on deaf ears,
(19:44):
and that is a problem, and it can be really overwhelming.
And you know, I don't really want to go into
all the self harm because there's a lot of people
out there that don't self harm themselves, and a lot
of people that are not suicidal. There are some, for sure,
but I think that's a separate. That's a separate on
its own. Yes, and definitely there are people that are
that will self harm. But what I see a lot
(20:04):
of times in this situation the BPD MPD combination is
that there's enough MPD that that person's not going to
hurt themselves, you know, and if they do, it's only
to get more attention. It's not to actually end anything.
It's to you know, get more attention. It's to make
(20:26):
you feel bad, it's to hurt your feelings. And I
find this usually a manipulative tactic that's used. And I
find that when these types of manipulative tactics happen, the
code of pennic gets even more connected, even if they
don't want to be into the relationship, because now we've
had like some sort of situation, you know, happen where
(20:47):
the person was going to take some pills or do
what have you, And now this person feels like now
they're indebted to try to save this person, to help.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Them wake up.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And again, one of the things that I need everybody
to think about is, you know, there's not another person
that's you're cross to bear. Okay, your cross to bear
is yourself, right, I mean, you taking care of another
person in lieu of yourself, you're missing the point, like
you need to take care of you first, right, and
when you're trying to safeguard this person, take care of
(21:16):
this person, do everything for this person. You are losing
your independence, you are losing your identity. Your life is
no longer your life now your life is the caretaker
of this person. And the problem of being the caretaker
of this person because they have BPD and MPD, is
that they don't care and you're never gonna do enough.
(21:37):
You can never do enough to make this person happy.
With this combination, they're not gonna be happy with you.
They're gonna beat you down to submission, get you to
do what they want to do, and then they're still
gonna find fault with you because ultimately they are not
happy and they're not gonna do things they want you
to do things to make them happy because that's part
(21:58):
of your duty. It's like, you know, it's like you're
working for them. You're like there's slave. You're literally they're
emotional slave that they can take everything out on you
anytime they want. You've shown them they can. You've given
them the keys, You've given them the keys to show
them how to use it. You've given them the codes
(22:20):
to know what to do. You've gave them all the
information about yourself in the very beginning that they can
use against you to make you feel like crap. Right,
and now you're sitting here going, oh my god, what
do I do now?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
How do I do this?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
So there's a part of you that's now stuck going, oh,
there was still some good times, you know, And then
there's most of it is just like you know, a trigger,
you know of the situation from childhood or from a
relationship prior, and it's a trauma bond. And so now
you are trauma bonded with this person with BPD and MPD.
(22:54):
You're the codependent who's the perfect puzzle piece for the
situation because you know, you were always fighting to do better,
to prove yourself and all that stuff your whole life,
and so now you're trying to prove yourself that you
can win this relationship, you can make this work, you
can do this, you can do that, you know, and
you're like, okay, I'm gonna prove this too. Okay, but
we need to kind of step back at some point
(23:14):
and go, what are we proving and why am I
trying to prove this?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And I need to also take the.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
You know, take take the the guys off of the
trauma von because it's not the trauma bond. Isn't love.
Trauma bond is a trauma bond. There's no, there's not
it's not love. It might have appeared as love in
the beginning because it felt so familiar and it was like, oh,
this feels so good. Oh yeah, this is the love
of my life. Oh, I can't believe I'm at this person,
(23:43):
you know. And then eventually the red flags come and
you're like, oh, I don't know about that. Huh, I
don't know about that, And here they come, and the
parade of red flags are coming, the parade of red
flags are coming, right, and you kind of overlook that
until it gets worse and worse and worse and worse
and worse, and you find yourself, you know, calling your
friend every night asking what to do. You find yourself
trying to find a you know, a professional to help you.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
You don't know what to.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Say or do, and there you are locked in basically
this concept, this psychle pattern of doing everything you can
this person loving you. Then hating you, then loving you,
then hating you, the manipulating you, then controlling you, then
trying to take you away from everybody, you know, trying
to isolate you, all the while having this lack of empathy.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
They don't really care about you, and they tell you that. See,
that's the thing is that they actually tell you things
that are just mean and cruel. And they will say
horrible things to you and then the next day act
like nothing was said, you know, the next day like
they will say horrible things to you that if you
did to them, they would probably call the police on
you and you would probably be arrested at your home
(24:50):
because you were you know, you know, because what you
were doing was wrong and you were sending horrible messages
and threatening messages, and the next day, oh, good morning,
you know, and it's there's no empathy. There's no I'm
sorry I did that, I shouldn't have said that, I
was out of line. There's none of that. And that's
something that we need to really think about too, you know.
(25:10):
I mean, but the last thought that I want to
bring up in today's podcasts, you know, it's interesting, you know,
it's that whole betterment concept. So when you're dealing with
somebody with this combination, you know, they're better than others.
They can be very arrogant and put other people down
and and and that's really challenging too, because there you are, like,
(25:31):
you know, you're dealing with this person and their struggles
and their issues, and you're trying to help them. But
yet they put other people down, they make fun of
other people. They're better than other people, and they don't
see like they don't have like a human side as
far as a self awareness piece, where you know, there's
some things that I'm lacking here and I need to
do some work on myself, and you know, just to
(25:52):
see reality doesn't exist, it doesn't exist. And you know,
you know a lot of times with these folks, you know,
they don't they will not go to therapy. They're not
going to do therapy. They're not going to do this,
they're not going to do that. They don't have a problem.
You know, they don't have a problem. Now, I think,
(26:13):
you know, when you deal with folks like this too,
they do and every relationship that they're gonna have until
they get right with themselves is going to be a problem.
But the problem is it's not really the problem with them,
it's the problem with us is why are we still
in this? What do we have to gain out of it?
(26:34):
And why are we letting this relationship control us? So
the relationship is controlling us, it's controlling you completely right,
So why are we letting it happen? Why are we
letting this relationship control us?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Because we are.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And that's where I want you to really think about,
is that That's where I think the issue is.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
That's really where the rubber.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Meets the road, because I understand if it was just
straight BPD, yes, there's a lot of issues to deal with,
and if the person's wanting to go and get some help, okay,
let's let's go down that route. But if you're dealing
with somebody that has that plus this manipultive and controlling
and non empathetic and non caring and envious of other
(27:19):
people and thinking everybody's envious to them, and you know,
it's all about appearances and these obsessions with appearances constantly,
you're dealing with all of that, and then on top
of that, it's like where does that even leave room
for you? I mean it's almost like all the error
is sucked out of the room every day by this
person anyway, And then why are you attracted to this?
(27:40):
Why do you continue to attract this? And I think
that you know, you're not attracted to it as far
as you like it. You're attracted to it because it's
a trauma bond. You've gotten into it. This is familiar space.
Now we got to look at why we've been attracted this,
what's been in our past, and why we got here.
And then you need to begin to figure out, Okay,
how do I sit there and work to get out
of this? How do I work to get out of this?
(28:01):
And what is the what is the way to do it?
You know, people quit things, quit vices very different ways.
I mean, when you think about smoking, some people can
quit cold. Some people have to use a little computer,
some people use a patch, some people use an inhalent.
You know when people talk, you know, stop alcohol. Some
people have to go to rehab, right. Some people just
stop cold, that's it. Some people minimize, they get down
(28:21):
to one drink, you know, they get two drinks, then
they're down to one drink and then they cut it out.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Some people use vitamins to cut out alcohol. Some people
need to use a pill you know that makes alcohol
taste horrible. Whatever, whatever it is, you got to figure
out what it is that you can quit this toxic
relationship and then begin to get help for yourself, because yeah,
I mean, in order to get into this relationship, it
takes two to tango.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Okay, we all have our issues.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Let's not act like, let's not act like, you know,
it's just the other person, because that's not true, because
if it was just the other person, you could easily
get out of this and move forward. We need to
deal with those code of penitendencies and why we feel
like we have to save this or why we have
created this image of this relationship in our head that's
so hard to let go. I have more podcasts coming up,
(29:07):
more about you know, BPD, MPD combination, you know, as
well as dealing with people that are not empathic and
and people that are manipulative, because the more manipulating somebody
is of you, the more they control your brain, the
more you allow it, the more you lose your you
lose your identity, you lose yourself. And that's what this
(29:29):
podcast is dedicated helping everybody that's going through these problems,
going through these issues and want to come out the
other side. You're already a little SKay, but we want
to get you out as safe as and sound as
possible and get the work that we need to further
our life to have a better life, to have a
peaceful life, and to have a successful life. If you
haven't already, check out my website Ashleyburgess dot com Ashley
(29:50):
Berges dot com. You can set up a coaching session online.
Just go to Coaching Sessions, click on that, feel it
out and it'll send an email and we can work
together one on one as well as don't forget the
YouTube channel go to life Coach Ashley Burgess.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Check out our YouTube channel.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
New video content up twice a week and in the meantime,
thank you for tuning in. Please share this podcast with
others and anybody that might need it. Please repost it
on your social media to share with others. And in
the meantime, you know, don't forget to live your true life.
And I'll be back here next with the Ashley Burgess Podcast.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Take care
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