November 13, 2025 • 51 mins
Join us for a special edition of FaceTime with The Baseline featuring best-selling author and cultural commentator Shea Serrano. Hosted by co-host Warren Shaw, this episode dives into Serrano’s latest book, Expensive Basketball, a captivating exploration of basketball’s unquantifiable magic beyond the box-score. Shea opens up about his journey — from middle-school science teacher to four-time New York Times bestseller author (including hits like Basketball (and Other Things).
He shares how Expensive Basketball reframes iconic players, moments and games — from the final 196 seconds of Kobe Bryant’s career to the fearless artistry of Tim Duncan and the motion poetry of Sue Bird — through the lens of emotion, memory and what a truly great hoop moment feels like.
In this wide-ranging conversation, Serrano talks about writing with humor and heart, the evolving culture of basketball storytelling, and how Expensive Basketball pushes back against the era of numbers-only analysis in sports. Whether you’re a die-hard NBA fan or simply love stories that make you feel the game, this episode is a must-listen.
🎧 Tune in as we go beyond stats, dig into storytelling, and celebrate why basketball — at its most “expensive” — is still poetry in motion.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-baseline-nba-podcast--3677698/support.
He shares how Expensive Basketball reframes iconic players, moments and games — from the final 196 seconds of Kobe Bryant’s career to the fearless artistry of Tim Duncan and the motion poetry of Sue Bird — through the lens of emotion, memory and what a truly great hoop moment feels like.
In this wide-ranging conversation, Serrano talks about writing with humor and heart, the evolving culture of basketball storytelling, and how Expensive Basketball pushes back against the era of numbers-only analysis in sports. Whether you’re a die-hard NBA fan or simply love stories that make you feel the game, this episode is a must-listen.
🎧 Tune in as we go beyond stats, dig into storytelling, and celebrate why basketball — at its most “expensive” — is still poetry in motion.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-baseline-nba-podcast--3677698/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
What's good.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Everybody is your boy cal game Face Lee.
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And it's me Warrenshaw and we are officially live on
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Absolutely so be sure to go to millions dot co.
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Speaker 4 (00:35):
Keep it real here the Baseline NBA Podcast. Your boy
Cayl gave Face Lee and my man Warren Shaw hit
us up on millions. Don't miss out. This is the
Baseline discussing the hot button topics of the NBA. Welcome everybody,
your tune to the Baseline Caliti Warnshaw discussing the hot
button topics of the.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
NBA Ball Foliage. Ball Foliage take place. Man, It's that
time of the year any and everything is right for
the picking.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
We've got a nice episode coming your way expanding our
ball space and who none better to help us more horizons.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
A man mister.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Shaw back once again helping us to explore our inner
ball region, our mental medulla, our mindset, get it right
for this NBA season.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
My friend, what's going on?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Yeah, I don't even know where to go with this man,
not the ball regions, but we out here, Yeah, I mean,
man Scape left us as time take it differently.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Whenever I mentioned anything with the word with the spelling
or the word.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Ball, Listen, I guess I'm immature. Brother, I guess I'm immature.
So you know, but here we go. We'll keep it
in rocking and rolling.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
This is this is an exciting time.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
When we do have a special edition, you know, the baseline,
a little FaceTime with the baseline, the.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Special guest, when we get opportunities to really kind of
expand the network, expand the conversation when it comes to
hoops conversations, specifically, Oh.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
We gotta, we gotta, we gotta grab it.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
And you know, I think we had a really great
opportunity here now as an author and somebody who's really
known in the NBA hip hop and cultural world.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
As well too, with our guests today for a special
face time with.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
The Yeah Man, and in a few moments we will
have the opportunity to uh chop it up with Shay Serrano,
who's releasing a new book called Expensive Basketball, best selling
author you know, definitely one of a kind.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
He blends it all everything within just not just the
culture itself, but also the game and to be able
to get it from the perspective of a writer. I
think it's always refreshing, but it's also it's it's stimulating
because I think it allows us to be able to
kind of look beyond just the game itself. There's certain
(02:55):
fastest to which the game can attach itself to and
who none better to help us be able to get
get into that space than our special guest that we'll
be having on in a few moments. So don't want
to miss out on this man. It's gonna be a great,
great conversation to be had, and as always, be sure
to get on my manshaw at d warren Shaw Get
at Me a game face Leader shows, Twitter handled NBA
Baseline available on all the major platforms. You know where
(03:16):
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all of the episodes that we drop down for your listening.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Pleasure.
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And if you catch us on the YouTube channel and
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family of great content creators that be putting it down
for your listening pleasure. Before we jump right into our
(03:49):
FaceTime with the baseline, we gotta let you know that
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(04:55):
hyphen Prize Picks. It's good to be right. Coming up, Sean,
I do a little FaceTime with the Baseline with our
special guests Shay Serrano.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Don't miss out. Question A question is the question? Question?
Speaker 5 (05:25):
Question is the question?
Speaker 6 (05:27):
Is the question?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
It is the question? The question the.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Questions the question is Yeah, and here to do a
little FaceTime with the Baseline. I'm solo for this one,
but I'm really excited. We had to get it done,
even if I needed to do it by my solo.
I have the amazing, amazing Shae Serrano, And if you
don't know him, allow me to introduce you and reintroduce
(05:57):
you actually as well, great great bio here. Shay is
a celebrated American author, podcast or journalist, pop culture commentator
known for distinctive and passionate approach or writing about sports
and music, has authored multiple books and is here to
talk about one of those books here today. That book
is Expensive Basketball. Shay Serrano, Shay, what's good brother, Thank
(06:19):
you so much for making the time to join us
on the baseline.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
Thank you for finally getting me on here. I've been
waiting for weeks and weeks to get on the show.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
This today, This today, Shay is the truly is the
man you know, and also one of our competitors, if
you will, Congratulations to you not too long ago winning
the Best Basketball Podcast from the Sports Podcast Awards, Unick
you and Jason. You know, it was like really great
(06:47):
to see, you know, good content being recognized in all
platforms and that I wanted to give you the shout
outs would beat us out, So you know you're a
little jealous.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
The hour second we were at the at the buzzer,
gotcha we cheated?
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Yeah, yeah, you last second shot like Dame look Dangelo,
Wat's Well, let's get it. Pop in about this book, Shay,
I've caught a chance to kind of skim through it,
so I don't want to lie to you. I haven't been
able to read it cover to cover. There's a lot
of interesting things. I'm actually going on the cruise a
little bit, so I'm going to like really dive into
that person perfect and this is definitely my bag. But
(07:27):
I apologize for the repetitiveness of some of these questions,
which you've been asked a thousand times before.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
But I also I want to kind of get it.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
What made you want to write something like this right
and and give it the title that is called expensive Basketball.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
I mean, that's an easy that's an easy question to
answer because you know, you probably have been watching basketball
your entire life, just as just as I have, and
we have over the course of the last you know,
however many years it's been watched. The conversation around basketball, right,
it gets presented a little bit a bit differently as
(08:04):
the years passed, and probably over the last ten or
fifteen years, there has been a big shift toward toward
like incorporating almost sort of advanced stats into your daily conversations.
Like if you went back fifteen years, nobody was like,
let me tell you about Tayshaun Prince's player efficiency rating
(08:26):
or wind shares, Like you didn't talk about basketball that way.
It's very common thing now. It's part of the way
that you do it right. So your basketball fans have
gotten smarter, people have gotten smarter, the teams have gotten smarter.
Everything in the NBA is now optimized to try to
scores efficiently as possible. Right, that's all a part of it.
I get it. I understand it. However, if you ask
(08:48):
anybody what their like favorite basketball memory, what's your favorite
basketball memory, give me an example, give me yours. Jordan
Game six Utah Okay, Jordan Game six Utah perfect when
when when that play happens right, it goes the Bulls
(09:09):
are down by three, they come down, Jordan scores a layup,
Utah goes back the other way. Jordan steals the ball
from Karl Malone when he thinks he runs up on
the backs on the back cut, following his man. He
stays there steals the ball. When Jordan's bringing that ball
up and the Bulls are now down one, and you
know he's going to shoot this shot and the ball's
not going anywhere else as he makes this move on
(09:32):
Brian Russell and gives him the little crossover and pulls
up to shoot. When he's raising up into the air.
Nobody in that Utah arena. I mean they had already,
they had already watched Jordan beat their jazz once in
the finals. Nobody in that Utah arena, Nobody watching on
the TV. Nobody thought as Jordan was raising up to
(09:53):
shoot that shot, Nobody said, if he makes this shot,
he's going to be twenty three for thirty seven from
the field. And like, no, nobody thought of a number
in that moment. All that you thought was I'm watching
the greatest basketball player of all time orchestrate what could
be the greatest final shot of all time. Like you were.
You were filled with an emotion, with a feeling. And
(10:17):
that's why people love basketball. It's it's never a number first.
It's always a feeling first. That's what you understand when
you're a kid. It's what you understand when you're an adult.
Feeling first, and then the number. And so the book
itself is not a refutation of stats. There are a
bunch of stats in there. There are numbers in there.
Numbers are a part of it. But what the book
is proposing is that the feeling should always be the
(10:40):
most important thing, should always be the first thing, Like
the most consequential thing. That's why I wrote the book
the way that I wrote it. That's why I called
it expensive Basketball, because that felt like a phrase that
sort of encapsulated this unquantifiable thing and now here we are.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Yeah, I guess I'm not surprised by the eloquency of
you know that answer, right. And then I think the
verbiage that you utilize to describe basketball pretty much anytime
that you're talking about it, you know, more poetry than calculation,
things like that, Like it's just really really I love
that notion of like kind of getting back to the essence.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Do you feel in a lot.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Of ways the book the book's importance in this time because,
as you said, it's not to disrespect the analytical side,
but is it to kind of remind us again of
that feeling the you know, kind of bring us back
to like the joy of basketball, Like, hey, you know what,
we can enjoy the eye test just as much as
we love the advanced.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
Ass I think, in its best instances, that's what it
aims to do. It just aims to say, hey, this
is why you love basketball, this is why you started
a podcast to talk with your friend about this thing,
or This is why you watch a video or or
click on a news article or whatever. It's because you.
Speaker 6 (12:01):
Love this this uh, this game in a way that
is more than just a Jordan won six championships and
Lebron won four.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
You know what I mean. It's it's a different it's
a different thing.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Let me.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I don't want to go in like a linear order
of like the chapters of the book and some of
the things that I've been kind of going. So I'm
gonna popcorn around, but I actually want to throw the question.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Back to you. Okay, what is your favorite basketball moment?
Do you shoot? I have immediately four hundred of them
that pop into my head. I mean thirty of them
are in the book. Every chapter is like a thing
that made me go like, ooh, I feel it, you
know what I mean. Obviously, Reggie is the first basketball
player I ever loved so any of his any of
(12:48):
his things, you know, the eight points in New York,
the twenty five point fourth quarter, the game winner against Chicago,
the dunk, the three point and three pointer that he
had against the Brooklyn Nets, excuse me, against the New
Jersey Nets, the early two thousand team that went to
(13:09):
the final. There are a ton of them. If I'm
gonna pick one, though, right that's I'm gonna pick the
one I'm thinking about right now. Immediately, I'm thinking about
twenty fourteen NBA Finals, which is that twenty fourteen Spurs
team is my all time favorite basketball team. I'm thinking about.
There's a stretch in the third quarter when the game
(13:32):
is still kind of close. The Spurs are up three
to one in the in the Finals. They're clearly the
better team, but it's still Lebron on the other side
and Dwayne Wade, and we already know. You can't just
go up three games to two against them because they're
gonna come back and get you. You can't just beat
up by five points in the final thirty seconds of
a game because they're gonna come back and get you.
(13:53):
You got to kill these guys. You're like, we were
confident we were going to win, but we're still terrified,
we being Spurs fans. There's a point in the third
quarter where where the Spurs hit three consecutive threes to
sort of open the game up to go up by twenty. Now,
twenty feels like a good number to be up in
the in the finals at home but it's just the
(14:14):
Spurs come down. They hit a three. I think the
heat come down. Chris Bosh hits a lay up, the
spurs come down, they hit another three. The heat come down,
they missed, and the Spurs come down, and the last
three is Mono Genobli. It's Kawhi Leonard on the break.
They've already hit the two in a row over the
course of like, you know, fifty seconds, but they're coming up.
(14:35):
Kawhi spots Manu in his spot, throws the ball out there.
Manu lets it go. There's no reason for him to
shoot this shot other than it's time to kill the
Miami Heat. He lets it go. It drops in the place,
goes fucking bonkers. Mike Breen, maybe my favorite like color commentator,
(14:56):
just screws oh in avalanche in San Antonio, and I
will always remember him describing it as an avalanche, because
that's exactly what I felt. You knew in that moment
you were going to win the championship. You were going
to avenge the twenty thirteen loss. You were going to
wash away all these bad memories and this bad taste
that you had in your mouth for the past eighteen
months or whatever. It was a year. That's that's the
(15:19):
one I think I'm thinking about right now because that
was just like pure elation when that when that, when
Monon shot that shot, you know what I mean, there's
what a sequence it was.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah, it's a it was a dismantling, you know what
I mean. It was like a business trip, revenge tour
and then came out there and got it done. I
think that is you know, appropriately said it was poetic
to watch. I live in the South Florida area and
I'm not a heat fan, so I enjoyed that very much.
Let me just say so, I want to get into
(15:51):
this the examples of ghost stories and Grail stories. Oh yeah,
and ah, I found it, you know as kind of peruising.
I was like, man, this is really interesting, and I think,
you know some of the stuff that a Grail might
be ghosts for the team that I guess it happened
happened against too well. One of the things I was
and I guess this is maybe a bit it was
(16:11):
foiler for me because I haven't got through the book itself.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
I gotta know.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Is Kings versus Lakers? I think that's two thousand and one.
Is that in there, like, you know Big Bob's shot.
You know that more or less kind of turned the
series around, you know, in favor of Sacramento.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Is that in there as a ghost story for maybe
for Sacramento.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
Yeah, that's a ghost story. That's two thousand and two.
When that happens, Oh, two thousand and two, Game four,
the Kings are up up by two, the final seconds
are tipping taking away. Kobe gets into the lane and
he gets the shot up. They miss, Shaq gets the rebound.
He throws it at the rim, that goofy two handed
nonsense he would do when he couldn't dunk it. He misses.
(16:52):
You're like, they're gonna do it. They're gonna fucking do it.
They're gonna go up three to one against the Bullies,
the back to back champs. And then Vlotti Depot grab
the ball. V Lottie grab He flaps it out straight
to Robert or the one guy, the one guy who
you can't hit it to, and Robert lets it go
(17:13):
splashes in game over at the buzzer. What a heartbreak
him up. Yeah, that's a ghost story. So you know,
the Grail story is the best thing that's ever happened
in franchise, like the single best play, ghost Story is
the single worst play. That's the one for Sacramento. That's
the one where it's like, if that doesn't happen, you're
not losing three games in a row to the to
(17:33):
the Los Angeles Lakers after you've just beaten them three
out of four. But that I watched this documentary one time.
So remember the when the NBA would do a thing
where a team would win a championship and then immediately
after it would be a commercial and it's like, order
the championship package, you get a T shirt and a
DVD and it's coming out like the video. So I
(17:54):
would of course get that every single time the Spurs
would win. And on the two thousand and three one,
there's a moment where they're interviewing David Robinson and he's
talking about how when you win a championship, as you're
going through the playoffs, there will be like one thing
that happens that makes you go, oh, it's our year,
We're gonna win it this year. Right when they're talking
(18:15):
with David about the two thousand and three championship, he
mentioned specifically it's a Robert Orriy shot, a Spurs were
up by like twenty five. The Lakers come flying back.
The game ends with Robert Rorri with the ball in
his hands and a chance to win the game. He
shoots at three. They're down by two. If it goes in,
the Lakers are going to do what the Lakers always do,
which is destroy San Antonio. But it rattles around and
(18:36):
then it spits back out. It's as close to going
in as you can get to going in without going in.
But David says when he saw the ball spit out,
he went, oh, we're going to beat the Lakers this time.
Like that was God telling me it's our time to win.
Right when Robert Rorri shoots that shot and that ball
drops in, I guarantee you the Lakers were like, we're
not losing. We're going to win another champion. That was
(18:57):
the moment that they said to themselves, these guys can't
beat us, Nobody can beat us. We're gonna We're gonna
just grab the fucking ball. V Lottie, please, I'm begging you.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
It's it's tough.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
I mean again, I'm hearing I'm bearing all kinds of
directions here too. So were the Kings robbed though you
know by the rest. I don't know if you've ever
covered that game.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
To game six. Game six is a tough watch from
a from a from a referee standpoint, the whole Dona
heat part. Like theyre like it said, you can't not
talk about that. But what I always go back to
is that that was game six, that wasn't Game seven.
And you have a game seven, and you have a
Game seven at home, and you have a Game seven
(19:40):
at home with Pagristojakovic in the corner, wide open, with
a chance to win the game shooting a three. Nobody
is within fifteen feet of your best shooter, and he
air balls it. He airball the best shooter that you imagine,
Steph Curry with a chance to win the game, and
he air You could put nine guys on Steph Curry.
(20:02):
He's not going to air ball a three. It might
clank off the backboard like when Kevin Love was guarding
number the twenty six finals, but he's not going to
airball the patient airballed it. I think I think I
read a thing one time where he's like, that's the
worst shot of my career. I think about it all
all the time because if that goes in they win
the game, like you got you gotta you gotta eat
that one. You know, it is, It's true, It's very true.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
I'm sticking on the points of the grail you know
is there because you seem to have a very extensive,
you know, almost photographic memory of you know basketball, you
know Dainny years back.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Is there any.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Player that might have multiple girl moments, like for different franchises,
like a Lebron right, who's you?
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Oh yeah, three teams and one championships, right.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Yeah, Lebron Lebron. I mean, he obviously has the grail
moment for the Cleveland Cavaliers. That's the game seven flock.
You can probably you can probably pick something out this
will this will be like a sort of if I
was trying to be cutesy about it, I'd be like, oh,
the his his grail moment for the Heat is when
(21:06):
he takes his fucking headband off against the Spurs and
just turns into somehow turns into Superman, Like.
Speaker 6 (21:12):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
When we were beating him, when he had the head
bend on, he took that ship off, we couldn't do
nothing with him. It was it was like it's like
when you're getting gonna get into a fistfight with a
guy and he takes his shirt off, and you're like, fuck,
this guy's done this before, you know what I mean?
Like oh no, no, like oh no, oh no. You
could probably argue that Jordan, he obviously has a grail
moment for the Bulls, but like, what's a better moment
(21:34):
for the Washington Wizards than maybe the the when he
pins the shot on the block against the backboard. Remember
when he did that. There's like a guy going in
for a layup. He jumps, he blocks the ball, but
he grabs it and holds it like against the backboard,
comes down with it, and then looks at him and
it's like, I'm Michael fucking Jordan, you know what I mean,
(21:56):
It's probably it's probably gonna be gonna be one of
one of those guys.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
Nah.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I I appreciate this conversation again with say Sean to
make sure you get his new book out there, Expensive
Basketball Shake a couple of last ones here. I think again,
just the way that you describe things again really is
just perfect because there's I guess it's like the forward
in the beginning of the book. There's like you don't
need to know anything about this thing to understand what
(22:25):
it is. I think comparing like Ray Allen's jump shot
just jo Noah's jump shot, you can just look at
that and you know which one is probably the more
correct or appropriate thing. How did how does your mind
work in essence to be able to, I guess, articulate
that level of imagery, you know, I mean to your readers.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
I think that just comes with with repetition, Like you
gotta you're like you're seeing the finished product right, the book,
the book. I worked on the book for write about
four years. So I wrote that intro and rewrote it
and edited it and re edited it, and rewrote it
like I'd worked on it twenty five times to try
(23:07):
to get it right. So you know, you have to
sort of keep that in mind whenever you're reading, like
a book or a thing that somebody has has given
to you. But typically what I do is is I
try to identify whatever the feeling is that I want
to write about and then come up with ways to
do that, and then then I just start writing until
(23:29):
you just do it until it feels right. You just
type and read until it feels right. I always do
a thing where where I read out loud the thing
that I've written to see does it sound right? Does
it sound like this is how a human would talk,
or does it sound like I'm trying to be like
a little too clever here, let me fix that. Does
(23:50):
it sound like does it have the same sort of
cadence that I have when I'm talking. You probably have
noticed here, But there will be moments when I'm going
or we're like very excited about a thing to start
talking real quick, and then there'll be like a pause
or a break as I like my brain catches back
up to the thoughts and now I'm gonna go, like
(24:11):
I want the writing to to feel the same way.
But always what I'm doing is I identified the feeling
and then find stuff that matches that. So with the
Tim Duncan chapter, that's the first chapter in the book.
That's always a very easy example to cite if somebody
asks me a version of this question, because it's like, Okay, well,
I'm writing about Tim Duncan because he made me feel
(24:31):
this like thing, this like inevitable destruction, right that he
would he would just lean on you and lean on
you and lean on you, and then you would break
and that's how he played basketball, and I loved it.
And so I'm like, all right, well, the very easy,
like the very easy analogy to make theirs is like,
(24:52):
that's what the terminator did. He would just the terminator
just kept on coming and coming and coming and coming
until eventually you were dead. That's all that he did.
And you either killed him or he killed you, but
he'd never stopped like chasing after you. And I felt
the same way watching Tim Duncan play basketball as like
watching that movie. So there's that part of it. But
there's also this like poem that's in the book just
(25:15):
for no reason at all, in that chapter. It's like
a poem from the eighteen hundreds that I read that
had this like indescribable beauty to it, and so I'm
just gonna I'm just gonna put that in the chapter
as well, and like hopefully when you're reading through it
as a reader, you get to it and you're like,
why is this in here? And then by the end
of it, you go, oh, I get I get why
it's in there. Now everything here feels like the way
(25:37):
Tim Duncan plays basketball, and that's what we're That's what
we're doing. That's what I'm trying to do with each
of the chapters.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
No, I think it's coming across, you know extremely well,
Chay Scharana, last two questions here for you. So many
things are in it, right and you know from Klay Thompson,
Diana Tarassi and you know Vince Carter.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
Magic's in there, I believe as well.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
To you, Like, there's just a lot of odes and
understanding because it's you knows, thirty teams, you know, expansion
the whole Nott, etcetera, et cetera. And then I guess
what didn't make it? Like, what's one thing in there
that you wish you know on that I made it?
On the chopping floor, the chopping floor, I listen, this
is good, But yeah, we're just kind of at our
(26:20):
max for this ding.
Speaker 5 (26:21):
Okay. So that's a great question because that always happens
with every single book of this kind, right, Like there's
a finite space in the book, in this case, three
hundred and fifty two pages that I have to work with.
Some of it gets designated for the index and for
the acknowledgments. Whatever you end up with, effectively, thirty chapters
(26:42):
is what I had space for I wrote thirty four
thirty five of them and then plugged in the ones
that I that I wanted. But what I'm doing whenever
I'm making the book is I'm trying to create like
a full view of something. Like when I did the
Rep Yearbook, I was trying to create like a full
view of rap. What I did this one, I'm trying
(27:03):
to create like a full view of the spectrum of
emotions that you can get while watching basketball. I want
to hit each of the each of the things. So
I started plugging in pieces. You know, Tim Duncan made
me feel this, Kobe made me feel this, Klay Thompson's
third quarter made me feel this. And you're trying to
like just have stuff for each of the things, right,
(27:25):
and the stuff that ends up not making it is
the stuff that's like a duplicate of something else. So
we talked about the two thousand and two Sacramento Kings.
Earlier in the book, there's a chapter about the nineteen
ninety three Charlotte Hornets. There's a team that never won
a championship. They never even really contended. They won one
playoff series, but there was just like it was just
(27:47):
like this perfect mixture of things that all happened with
this is an expansion team. They end up drafting like
a couple of really cool players and Alonzo Morning than
Larry Johnson. They have like this incredible way that we
had never seen before. Their their mascot is this incredibly
cool Hugo the Hornet guy. Like it was all. They
(28:09):
went to a city that was basketball crazy, and it
was all of these things that just made the nineteen
ninety three Charlotte Hornets, for some reason, like an everlasting team.
You were never going to forget them. Everybody who grew
up in that time desperately wanted the starter jacket or
a hat or anything you could get your hand on.
It was like deal, yeah, the teal right, it was
(28:30):
like this. It was like a shorthand. Saying you liked
this nineteen ninety three Charlotte Hornets was like the same
as saying you liked M. F. Doom. It says like
something about your taste as a yeah, right. And so
I wrote that chapter and had that in there, and
then I wrote a chapter about the two thousand and
two Sacramento Kings, another team that you know, this is
(28:51):
over a decade later, but they show up and they
play basketball, and it's like and then and what is
viewed as an objectively, objectively beautiful way You watch them
play basketball, and you said this, I don't know anything
about Sacramento, but I watched these guys play basketball, and
it's beautiful. That looks like what I think basketball should
look like. The balls zipping around, everybody moving, all of
(29:13):
these like it was great. Right, But they had like
the same story. The essence there was the same thing
as the Charlotte Hornet's chapter in that a team doesn't
have to win a championship to be remembered forever. A
team doesn't have to like have the best player in
the league to be like a meaningful cultural experience. Right,
We're never gonna forget that Hornets team. We're never gonna
(29:35):
forget the two thousand and two Sacramento Kings or the
or the seven seconds or less Phoenix Sun Like those
teams are important too, Right. But I was looking at
those two chapters and I said, well, these are these
two things are effectively saying the same thing. I don't
need both of them, So I'm gonna get one one
out of here, you know what. So that chapter got
(29:55):
out of there there's a Kevin Garnett chapter that when
I was looking at it, I was like, I have
a Tim Duncan chapter. I have a Dirk Navinski chapter.
I don't need another power forward from this era chapter
saying sort of a similar thing as these two and
so so those are two of them. That those were
the last two that I was like, I want these
in here, but I can't fit them. I gotta get
(30:17):
them out, sham.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Need you send me the editors cut the extended version.
I'm gonna need that because all of that is super
interesting to me. The Hornets team, I just remember, even
just like like culturally they were killer, Like on NBA
jams you had.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
You had twelve year old kids living in fucking Boston
who were like Larry Johnson and Alonzo Morning and like,
that's my team.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Fire, absolutely, fire, Shaye.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Before I let you slide, just make sure you tell
people where they can find you the book, et cetera,
et cetera.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
But also, do you feel like.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
A non basketball fan can enjoy this book or do
you just kind of have to love basketball the NBA
in essence to.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Be able to really understand what the book is kind
of for.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
I think you can I think you can enjoy this
book without being like a basketball fan. Right, Some of
my some of my favorite books are books about stuff
that I don't know anything about, because it's just it's
it's always to be fun to read something written by
somebody who you can tell they care about a thing. Right,
(31:32):
Because I like you and I could talk about we
probably talked about basketball for the next four hours. It
would be a totally easy, comfortable conversation. But at some
point during that conversation, you're going to tell me about
your favorite basketball player. Who who's your favorite basketball player
or favorite basketball player? Layer one guy, well of all
(31:54):
of all time, it's George. George. George's got to be short, right,
you grew up in that age. It's Jordan is your guy.
Jordan is not my favorite basketball player, but I would
love to hear you talk about Jordan because, in addition
to learning about you, which would be interesting to me,
you would say a bunch of stuff during the course
(32:14):
of that that would make me go, Okay, I feel
like that about this other guy, and that and and
and and you connect. So that sort of thing I wrote.
I read a book one time. Uh. It was by
Bill Simmons about baseball. It was about the Boston Reds,
like a bunch of stuff bout Boston Reds, like I
know anything about baseball, But reading it, he's just writing
(32:35):
in a way that makes me go like, oh, he
cares about this the way that I care about this
other thing. And so you can connect with it. So
now you don't need to be a basketball fan to
reading shorts of basketball. What it does make it so
much better. Though, if you get like if you if
you you should, if you're a basketball guy, basketball girl,
you grew up watching basketball at some point, you should
(32:56):
read it and go like, I remember that that was
fucking cool, and I'm not I'm gonna look it up
on YouTube and like it does. It does help a lot,
but it doesn't. You know, you know somebody who hadn't
read basketball shirt, they'll laugh at something in there.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Nah, they absolutely will.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
And again me as somebody who cares about this form
the way that I do, and have had multiple iterational
players who I really do identify with and care about.
You know, you talk about Jordan, I was a big
KG guy. I was actually a big Weber guy, and
you know what keeping to achieve just somebody who I
really enjoyed, you know, from his Michigan days and then
really wanted to seem succeed in the NBA. But in
any event, we are definitely past our time and I
(33:34):
want to be respectful.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Are we to make sure you are? Wait to ask
you a question?
Speaker 5 (33:39):
Who's your guy? Who's your guy today?
Speaker 1 (33:43):
You know that's a hard one.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I think I'm becoming a little bit more jaded, you know,
in terms of who I'm like rooting for. It's hard,
Like I like Tatum and it's hard.
Speaker 5 (33:55):
Now again, I don't.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Want to be like so I don't know easy so
to speak, and like like picking the easy fruit, like
lowest hanging fruit.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
But what I'm seeing Wemby do right now, I'm like, oh.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
Oh yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
So it's like it's just really interesting to kind of
watch like the evolution of the player itself, right and
how what we thought was taboo before. You know, I
always go back to whin Sabonus like a big Si
Bonus Vetus was in there and shooting threes to now
we're like, well, yeah, you need to be a stretch five,
Like why aren't you shooting?
Speaker 1 (34:26):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (34:27):
In ar Vedas I was was kind of not necessarily
vilified for it, but you know, they get down in
the post some more. It was just the game is
is so magical, you know, and the evolution of it
is really really interesting. And how it's covered also, I
think is really interesting as well too. So yeah, I mean,
as a Spurs person, so are you, you know, by
proxy have to be a Wemby guy right.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
Now, I'm a I'm a I'm a Wemby guy. But
to your point that that's the easiest possible thing to say.
Separate of Wemby, I'm a Castle guy. I'm a Dylan
Harper guy. Of course. I mean these these are my
young Spurs. I'm a I really want, I really want you.
I want let's go. I want the switch to click
for LaMelo. I want him to become the guy that
(35:09):
I think he can become. You mentioned Tatum. A couple
of years ago, I was working on this other book,
a book about rap called hip Hop and other things,
and and I was working with researcher. I always have
a researcher when I'm doing the book because I like
want to have all of the information I can get.
And so there's this guy named Dart Adams, who's like
(35:30):
a rap historian, and so I reached you know, Dart. Okay,
I reached out to Dart and I'm like, hey, can
you you want to like research for this book in
fact check this book for me so that it's bulletproof,
And he's like, yeah, I got you know, sweat. He's
also a huge basketball fan, and so over the course
of like two or three years or whatever it was
I was working on I probably emailed them who knows
(35:50):
how many times. First of all, it was crazy to
be like, hey, there's like this old article from a
Vibe magazine that I'm like trying to find, like, do
you know where I can find them on the internet?
And He'll just text me back a picture of the magazine.
He's like, oh, you mean this one? Like he has
physical copies of everything. It was unra It's like he
lives in a fucking rap He's on the museum. It
was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Right.
Speaker 5 (36:10):
It got to the point where I would just ask
him for random shit and he'd be like, you mean
this right here, send him a thing. It was great,
But we were working on the book and during that
During that time, the Spurs and the Celtics played and
the Spurs had like gone up huge on the Celtics.
They're up by like twenty twenty five points or something.
I'm like, it's over. It's a wrap. This is pre championship.
(36:31):
I think it was a season that they went on
to win the championship. So you weren't like all the
way afraid of the Celtics yet. But then Jason Tatum
went fucking nuts. He ended up hanging like like a
fifty ball on us, and they come back and they win,
and it was a disaster. But that night Dart is
like a Boston guy. He's like from Boston, he lives there,
and so this this game happens. I don't say anything
(36:52):
to him about it. I just send him an email
later that night like hey, I finished another chapter, like
can you I need you to can you do your thing?
And he's like, yeah, no, sweats, send it to me.
And I send him the chapter. But all that was
when he opened it, it just it just said Jason
Tatum sucks and that was it.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Datus fucking good, dude.
Speaker 5 (37:11):
He ruined my life that night. What a disaster that was.
I really want him to come back and be better
than like pre injury. I don't, you know, Yeah, I'm scared,
I'm nervous.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Well, I'm hopeful, you know, I definitely want to see
that for him and and kind of get a pop
in and see the Celtics and Tatum specifically kind of
get back to some somewhats of glory. But there are
so many great players out there, and you know, like
we want to celebrate the game. And yes, you can
be critical, but I mean everythink doing it fairly, you know,
is an important situation and understanding that these are human
(37:46):
beings first and foremost. And that's what I love about
trying to do what we do here on our show
and people who we bring on, right, Like there's an
appreciation of love for the game, understanding that the two
sides of the story. But we don't need to like denigrate, right,
We can be critical, like you being a LaMelo ball
guy is interesting, right, and I think there's a lot
of people who are not, and say, like Jase Ronto,
(38:06):
like Wamelo love LaMelo.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
That was crazy.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
He's fun. No, he is, He's fun. And I think
you're right, Like, and when it does and if it
does click, it's going to be super like it's going
to be amazing. It's going to be like this redemption
arc that many of us are probably I don't want
to say rooting against, but just don't see coming.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
I know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (38:23):
I talked about this on the I don't remember what
the other show was, but LaMelo came up and I
was talking about this was right after that game against
Philly when he shoots a terrible three pointer at the
end of the game, like the worst shot you can shoot,
and then Philly comes down and they hit a three
and they win the game. But I was, I was
when I'm watching this happen again, I'm watching Mello, I'm
(38:47):
watching the games. When I watched it happen, I didn't
get the sense that he shot that shot in like
a Jordan Poole, I'm just shooting a bad shot kind
of right, I'm just gonna get it up there. I
got the sense that he shot that shot in like
pursuit of a moment, you know what I mean. And
this is this is I keep saying this anytime I
(39:09):
bring this up. This is like a sacrilegious basketball comparison
to make. But when he shot that shot, I thought
of Kobe. I thought of Kobe against the Utah Jazz
shooting those four airballs in the playoffs, right.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
He did, like I'm gonna do this thing.
Speaker 5 (39:25):
He wasn't shooting it, like he didn't understand that that
was maybe not the shot to take, or that he
was scared in the moment, or it was a bad shot.
It felt like he was shooting it in pursuit of
this is a step I need to take as I
become the like player. I'm going to become one of
the greatest basketball players of all time. It felt it
(39:45):
felt watching LaMelo shoot that shot. I didn't get the
sense I'm just chucking it up there. I got the
sense I need I need a moment, I need a thing,
and I'm the best. I'm always gonna argue in favor
of LaMelo. I'm rooining for you. Come on, LaMelo, figure
it out, baby.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Oh let's go. Let's go.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
My god, I've enjoyed this so much in Shay, you know,
I do hope that at some point we're able to
connect again, you know, down the line, even outside of
the book and you go back and read I'm a
big hip hop fan. My co host who's not with
us here today again, Super hip hop fan used to
wrap back in the day, as.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
A lot of us did, and the whole nine. So
I think there's so many ways of conversation we could.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
We could dive into you're a busy guy, and I
get it, you know what I mean, everyone's talking at you,
but we'd love to bring you back.
Speaker 5 (40:29):
I'm in sign me up, let's go, all right.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
He is the amazing Chase Rhno. You can follow him
on all social media platforms. Shay tell the people again
where the books book is available? And one last plot
before you get sign up.
Speaker 5 (40:42):
Out of the book is available everywhere they sell books.
Expensive Basketball. If you don't want to go to a store,
just type it into your cell phone and it'll pop up,
and then buy it from that. But buy it, buy
it somewhere. I gotta I got two kids in college,
you know what I mean. Go buy the book.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
We got kids to feed, Bill, pay nothing, make it happen.
He it is the amazing Serrando Expensive Basketball. On the baseline,
This has been faceline with the baseline with say Seranto,
We'll be right back here after this break.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
All right, time now to do a little after mask
Calie Warrenshaw basedline NBA podcasts. What an awesome conversation that
you were able to, you know, partake with you know,
such a well known and a best selling author, you know,
someone who has been in a game for quite some time,
(41:42):
and someone who obviously has the ability to, like you know,
really kind of bring everything within the scope of what
we enjoy, what we appreciate and tie it together.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
It's you know, sometimes when you have conversations.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
With with with writers, they you know, they literally will
just go over your head. Unfortunately, we've never had that.
You know, he continues to be a part of that
list of just great conversationalists and people who feel like
what they're offering us to learn more and understand more
is something more of like, hey, I'm paying it forward.
(42:19):
I'm passing it forward. You know, in most cases, most
authors right to get paid. But in other words, his
payment comes in us seeing a different side or maybe
even being on the same page where he's coming from
when he puts together such a well scripted, you know,
well drafted book like the one that's coming out.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
Yeah, Shay is you know, he's he's he's invested in
the work that he's doing, and you love to have
that level of conversation. You know, in our conversation, like
we veered off and we just started talking basketball, like
even not just the book, and that just kind of
shows you how passionate he is about the work itself,
even throwing questions back to me and you know, what
(42:58):
are some of my favorite moments?
Speaker 5 (42:59):
Who are my favorite players?
Speaker 3 (43:01):
And you know, in some ways gone off topic, but
if you're really thinking about it. For me, though, we
weren't off topic because the topic was basketball and our
love for the game and our and our enjoyment for it.
And I really love how he was able to explain
that this isn't this disrespect to analytics and just really
(43:22):
understanding how the game has changed and how we consume it,
but there's still certain things you just know by looking
and seeing it. And it was this book is really
about how basketball makes you feel. And that, to me
was I think so poignant and excellent to have that
level of conversation with him, because he alluded to, like, yeah,
certain things that we're talking about now, you see, like
how I lean up into my chair and like I'm
(43:44):
just talking, you know, really quickly because I'm so passionate
about it.
Speaker 5 (43:48):
And then I realized Hey, I'm talking to you fast.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
I need to slow down and let my brain catch up,
and you know what I mean, and slow down or whatever.
But then I get talking again because I'm still excited
about that topic. That to me is what you know.
I think anybody who was truly abosket Well fan will
really enjoy this book if you just even beginning the
opening intro. There's so much good stuff in there that
that you'll be able to notate. And in the conversation
we talk about that as well too, Like the difference
were you would never have to watch basketball ever to know, Okay,
(44:15):
looking at ray Allen's jump shot, and you can know
his jump shot from back in the day, Oh, which
one looks more right to you?
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Right?
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Like you would like you would never have ever have
to play to just look at it and know what
what feels right about that situation.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
And that the.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Book is littered with those types of examples and the
odes to some of the people that Shaye was really
excited about, you know, growing up and watching watching this game.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
As well too.
Speaker 5 (44:39):
Man, it was an amazing, amazing conversation.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
I'm sorry that you weren't able to enjoy it, you know,
with me, man, it was it was it was hard
to ride, and it was a little.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Dolo on it, but it was still, you know, a
great ride.
Speaker 4 (44:49):
Nonetheless, I think, you know, one of the things that
I'm I'm able to appreciate when you have these kind
of conversations and you know, of course I would love
to in there for it, but I think one of
the things that you know, it kind of ties itself
back to what we were just talking about earlier before.
You know, one of the reasons why we did this,
(45:10):
we've been doing this podcast was because we wanted there
to be a dedicated space to have the conversations about
basketball free of the restraints of you know what radio
typically does, TV typically does, and now even with podcasts,
right like, I feel like there are times where we
often restrain ourselves from having those real deep in conversations
(45:33):
because it's about you know, paying attention more to a
person's you know, bandwidth to be able to consume stuff,
but you actually have to talk through it to find
where it makes sense to people. And the only way
that you're able to do that is to be in
space is that allow those individuals to freely speak about
those things, and maybe you may go on a tangent.
(45:54):
Maybe you may get off of the beaten path, but
you're on a path nonetheless. Eventually the intent is to
get somewhere to wherever that journey laid you to. That's
the destination, right, And I think us being able to
have a platform that allows that to be the case.
I think in ways, you know, it kind of re
(46:16):
humbles us back to the point where it's like, yeah,
this is why we're unique, right, because we're giving everyone
their opportunity to maybe take us off the beaten path,
but eventually we'll be with them on this journey, right.
And I think making sure that someone like a Chase
of Rono helps us get us back to that part
(46:37):
of it. You know, it doesn't happen all the time,
but when it does, it's utopia.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (46:43):
It's beautiful, right, Like it all kind of makes sense.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
And I'm just glad that he felt that, you know
what I'm.
Speaker 4 (46:51):
Saying with you, I know it's all the norm is
when it's both of us, But when he knows that
he can have that conversation with you, I know it
eventually I could have that conversation with him.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
You know what I'm saying, and anyone and that I mean,
that's inherent, you know.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
So that interesting because because he's not one dimensional, right,
and you know, in the conversation, I bring up the
fact that, yeah, you know we are hip hop heads
as well too, and he wrote like the hip hop
your book not too long ago, and so he understands
that and the same thing, how it does hip hop.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
You know, make you feel.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
And it was just really interesting to know, you know,
how tappedin he is.
Speaker 5 (47:29):
But you should be told to our listeners, you know.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
I think any most journalists or people in this space,
like you'll have a list of questions, but as you
alluding to, sometimes, you know you got to throw that
out the window, like the conversation takes you somewhere else,
and you know you kind of have to like freestyle it, right,
and you're like, well, we're gonna talk about this now
because this is the vibe that we're on. So while
I may have a list of questions or things and
I think I want to touch on based on excerpts
(47:54):
of the book that I've seen, things like I want
to really hit on again his opinion on.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
For the book.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
Again, we were talking a basketball and that led me
off air quote script for some of the things that
I was like, oh well, let me ask about this
chapter and why did he name the chapter this, and
why did he do that whatever, whatever, because that was
more interesting, you know, the way that he was his passion.
I was feeding off of that as well too. So uh,
I'm excited to dive into the full throttle aspect of
(48:21):
his book, Expensive Basketball.
Speaker 5 (48:23):
I would encourage everybody to check it out and and
give it a read.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Man.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
I think you'll be hooked literally just by by the
intro and then you'll kind of get the vibe for
what he's trying to do and understand why he's one
of the best, you know, in in our business and why,
you know, I jokingly said, why his podcast beat ours,
you know, for the best sports Best Basketball Sports Pastcast award,
you know, and it's h and his buddy Jason Concepcion.
Speaker 5 (48:47):
Like, like, they do good work, man, we do good
work as well too.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
But even his tongue in cheek nature of that, he's like, yeah,
it's like, yeah, we beat you guys out by the buzzer.
And I was like, yeah, Daan Lillard style, Like he
was like, yeah, you know, what I mean, So just
a lot of fun just two dudes, and obviously if
you would have been to three dudes talking hoops who
understand the culture, we're all of similar ages and things
like that too. It so it made it even that
much more exciting because there's a lot of things I
(49:11):
could relate to that.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
You know, some of.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
Our younger NBA fans may not just like they didn't
live that time, you know. Uh, but you know, it's
really really great to be able to see the then
and the now and even kind of even looking ahead
to the future with like the Wembes of the world
as well to Anthony Edwards, et cetera.
Speaker 6 (49:27):
Et cetera.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
Yeah, absolutely, man, and once again, you know, big shout out,
you know, to our our guest Chase Rano.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Again.
Speaker 4 (49:36):
The book is called Expensive Basketball. I believe it's available
on you know, on major anywhere.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
You can get books. That's what he told me. He's like,
anywhere you get books, that's where I can.
Speaker 4 (49:47):
Know, you know what I'm saying, like, you know, be literate,
be in the moment, be literate, and uh and and
and definitely cop you know, cop the book and then
as well too know follow you know, shade and and
you know the show and you know what they got
going on. You know, we're always about brought you know, expansion,
(50:11):
you know what I'm saying. And uh, I believe people
will definitely benefit uh from this experience. And and again,
you know, kudos to Yu Shaw, great interview, you know,
way to lay it down, you know what I'm saying.
And and again this is what this is what happens,
you know what I'm saying. When we get people up
on you know, to do a little face time with
the baseline, that's just you know, just just the way
(50:32):
it is. We're not just not just being one take
Jakes man. It's it's it's actually speaking into existence the
organic flow of great conversations and and not just learning
more about you know, just the game itself and learning
about the people who are influenced by the game and
the culture and what it's doing.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
So kudos my friend.
Speaker 5 (50:52):
Nah, I definitely appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
And again shout out to him.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
You know, we were you know, the public says that, hey,
you have X amount of minutes, and we went well
over that time, you know, and I was even like, oh,
I'm mean rap, and he was like, I'm good, you know,
and so he just kind of kept going and uh,
it was it was a good conversation.
Speaker 5 (51:07):
I think this is gonna be something something that people.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
Will really enjoy. And again, just get the book man,
you will not be disappointed. Extensive basketball by shayst Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
Once again, we'd like to thank you and yours for
hopping all board with us this week for the baseline
Calie Warne Show.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
We appreciate you, guys, you know we do. You should
have caught that book, you know what I'm saying, and
we catch him with you next time.
What's good.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Everybody is your boy cal game Face Lee.
Speaker 3 (00:04):
And it's me Warrenshaw and we are officially live on
millions y'all.
Speaker 4 (00:08):
That's right, The Baseline NBA podcast is officially live. Just
go to millions dot co and go to our profile
the Baseline NBA Podcast to check out more dope content
curated just for you.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
And if you're looking to book with us, collaborate us,
or get with us in any way, that's the spot
to make sure that that happens, y'all.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Absolutely so be sure to go to millions dot co.
You already know.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Keep it real here the Baseline NBA Podcast. Your boy
Cayl gave Face Lee and my man Warren Shaw hit
us up on millions. Don't miss out. This is the
Baseline discussing the hot button topics of the NBA. Welcome everybody,
your tune to the Baseline Caliti Warnshaw discussing the hot
button topics of the.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
NBA Ball Foliage. Ball Foliage take place. Man, It's that
time of the year any and everything is right for
the picking.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
We've got a nice episode coming your way expanding our
ball space and who none better to help us more horizons.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
A man mister.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Shaw back once again helping us to explore our inner
ball region, our mental medulla, our mindset, get it right
for this NBA season.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
My friend, what's going on?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Yeah, I don't even know where to go with this man,
not the ball regions, but we out here, Yeah, I mean,
man Scape left us as time take it differently.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Whenever I mentioned anything with the word with the spelling
or the word.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Ball, Listen, I guess I'm immature. Brother, I guess I'm immature.
So you know, but here we go. We'll keep it
in rocking and rolling.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
This is this is an exciting time.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
When we do have a special edition, you know, the baseline,
a little FaceTime with the baseline, the.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Special guest, when we get opportunities to really kind of
expand the network, expand the conversation when it comes to
hoops conversations, specifically, Oh.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
We gotta, we gotta, we gotta grab it.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
And you know, I think we had a really great
opportunity here now as an author and somebody who's really
known in the NBA hip hop and cultural world.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
As well too, with our guests today for a special
face time with.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
The Yeah Man, and in a few moments we will
have the opportunity to uh chop it up with Shay Serrano,
who's releasing a new book called Expensive Basketball, best selling
author you know, definitely one of a kind.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
He blends it all everything within just not just the
culture itself, but also the game and to be able
to get it from the perspective of a writer. I
think it's always refreshing, but it's also it's it's stimulating
because I think it allows us to be able to
kind of look beyond just the game itself. There's certain
(02:55):
fastest to which the game can attach itself to and
who none better to help us be able to get
get into that space than our special guest that we'll
be having on in a few moments. So don't want
to miss out on this man. It's gonna be a great,
great conversation to be had, and as always, be sure
to get on my manshaw at d warren Shaw Get
at Me a game face Leader shows, Twitter handled NBA
Baseline available on all the major platforms. You know where
(03:16):
to find this You go to www dot the Baseline
NBA dot com to not only catch us, but also
all of the episodes that we drop down for your listening.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Pleasure.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
And if you catch us on the YouTube channel and
you see the blue and white logo down the lower
left hand corner, you know that we rocks with the
nineteen Media Group family. Nineteen Media Group be running these
content streets, so be sure to go to www. Dot
Nineteenmediagroup dot com not only check us, but also the
family of great content creators that be putting it down
for your listening pleasure. Before we jump right into our
(03:49):
FaceTime with the baseline, we gotta let you know that
it's that time of the year, it's the gift of giving,
and this episode of the baseline is brought to you
by Prize Picks. You and I make decisions every single day,
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(04:55):
hyphen Prize Picks. It's good to be right. Coming up, Sean,
I do a little FaceTime with the Baseline with our
special guests Shay Serrano.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Don't miss out. Question A question is the question? Question?
Speaker 5 (05:25):
Question is the question?
Speaker 6 (05:27):
Is the question?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
It is the question? The question the.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Questions the question is Yeah, and here to do a
little FaceTime with the Baseline. I'm solo for this one,
but I'm really excited. We had to get it done,
even if I needed to do it by my solo.
I have the amazing, amazing Shae Serrano, And if you
don't know him, allow me to introduce you and reintroduce
(05:57):
you actually as well, great great bio here. Shay is
a celebrated American author, podcast or journalist, pop culture commentator
known for distinctive and passionate approach or writing about sports
and music, has authored multiple books and is here to
talk about one of those books here today. That book
is Expensive Basketball. Shay Serrano, Shay, what's good brother, Thank
(06:19):
you so much for making the time to join us
on the baseline.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
Thank you for finally getting me on here. I've been
waiting for weeks and weeks to get on the show.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
This today, This today, Shay is the truly is the
man you know, and also one of our competitors, if
you will, Congratulations to you not too long ago winning
the Best Basketball Podcast from the Sports Podcast Awards, Unick
you and Jason. You know, it was like really great
(06:47):
to see, you know, good content being recognized in all
platforms and that I wanted to give you the shout
outs would beat us out, So you know you're a
little jealous.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
The hour second we were at the at the buzzer,
gotcha we cheated?
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Yeah, yeah, you last second shot like Dame look Dangelo,
Wat's Well, let's get it. Pop in about this book, Shay,
I've caught a chance to kind of skim through it,
so I don't want to lie to you. I haven't been
able to read it cover to cover. There's a lot
of interesting things. I'm actually going on the cruise a
little bit, so I'm going to like really dive into
that person perfect and this is definitely my bag. But
(07:27):
I apologize for the repetitiveness of some of these questions,
which you've been asked a thousand times before.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
But I also I want to kind of get it.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
What made you want to write something like this right
and and give it the title that is called expensive Basketball.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
I mean, that's an easy that's an easy question to
answer because you know, you probably have been watching basketball
your entire life, just as just as I have, and
we have over the course of the last you know,
however many years it's been watched. The conversation around basketball, right,
it gets presented a little bit a bit differently as
(08:04):
the years passed, and probably over the last ten or
fifteen years, there has been a big shift toward toward
like incorporating almost sort of advanced stats into your daily conversations.
Like if you went back fifteen years, nobody was like,
let me tell you about Tayshaun Prince's player efficiency rating
(08:26):
or wind shares, Like you didn't talk about basketball that way.
It's very common thing now. It's part of the way
that you do it right. So your basketball fans have
gotten smarter, people have gotten smarter, the teams have gotten smarter.
Everything in the NBA is now optimized to try to
scores efficiently as possible. Right, that's all a part of it.
I get it. I understand it. However, if you ask
(08:48):
anybody what their like favorite basketball memory, what's your favorite
basketball memory, give me an example, give me yours. Jordan
Game six Utah Okay, Jordan Game six Utah perfect when
when when that play happens right, it goes the Bulls
(09:09):
are down by three, they come down, Jordan scores a layup,
Utah goes back the other way. Jordan steals the ball
from Karl Malone when he thinks he runs up on
the backs on the back cut, following his man. He
stays there steals the ball. When Jordan's bringing that ball
up and the Bulls are now down one, and you
know he's going to shoot this shot and the ball's
not going anywhere else as he makes this move on
(09:32):
Brian Russell and gives him the little crossover and pulls
up to shoot. When he's raising up into the air.
Nobody in that Utah arena. I mean they had already,
they had already watched Jordan beat their jazz once in
the finals. Nobody in that Utah arena, Nobody watching on
the TV. Nobody thought as Jordan was raising up to
(09:53):
shoot that shot, Nobody said, if he makes this shot,
he's going to be twenty three for thirty seven from
the field. And like, no, nobody thought of a number
in that moment. All that you thought was I'm watching
the greatest basketball player of all time orchestrate what could
be the greatest final shot of all time. Like you were.
You were filled with an emotion, with a feeling. And
(10:17):
that's why people love basketball. It's it's never a number first.
It's always a feeling first. That's what you understand when
you're a kid. It's what you understand when you're an adult.
Feeling first, and then the number. And so the book
itself is not a refutation of stats. There are a
bunch of stats in there. There are numbers in there.
Numbers are a part of it. But what the book
is proposing is that the feeling should always be the
(10:40):
most important thing, should always be the first thing, Like
the most consequential thing. That's why I wrote the book
the way that I wrote it. That's why I called
it expensive Basketball, because that felt like a phrase that
sort of encapsulated this unquantifiable thing and now here we are.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Yeah, I guess I'm not surprised by the eloquency of
you know that answer, right. And then I think the
verbiage that you utilize to describe basketball pretty much anytime
that you're talking about it, you know, more poetry than calculation,
things like that, Like it's just really really I love
that notion of like kind of getting back to the essence.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Do you feel in a lot.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Of ways the book the book's importance in this time because,
as you said, it's not to disrespect the analytical side,
but is it to kind of remind us again of
that feeling the you know, kind of bring us back
to like the joy of basketball, Like, hey, you know what,
we can enjoy the eye test just as much as
we love the advanced.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
Ass I think, in its best instances, that's what it
aims to do. It just aims to say, hey, this
is why you love basketball, this is why you started
a podcast to talk with your friend about this thing,
or This is why you watch a video or or
click on a news article or whatever. It's because you.
Speaker 6 (12:01):
Love this this uh, this game in a way that
is more than just a Jordan won six championships and
Lebron won four.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
You know what I mean. It's it's a different it's
a different thing.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Let me.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I don't want to go in like a linear order
of like the chapters of the book and some of
the things that I've been kind of going. So I'm
gonna popcorn around, but I actually want to throw the question.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Back to you. Okay, what is your favorite basketball moment?
Do you shoot? I have immediately four hundred of them
that pop into my head. I mean thirty of them
are in the book. Every chapter is like a thing
that made me go like, ooh, I feel it, you
know what I mean. Obviously, Reggie is the first basketball
player I ever loved so any of his any of
(12:48):
his things, you know, the eight points in New York,
the twenty five point fourth quarter, the game winner against Chicago,
the dunk, the three point and three pointer that he
had against the Brooklyn Nets, excuse me, against the New
Jersey Nets, the early two thousand team that went to
(13:09):
the final. There are a ton of them. If I'm
gonna pick one, though, right that's I'm gonna pick the
one I'm thinking about right now. Immediately, I'm thinking about
twenty fourteen NBA Finals, which is that twenty fourteen Spurs
team is my all time favorite basketball team. I'm thinking about.
There's a stretch in the third quarter when the game
(13:32):
is still kind of close. The Spurs are up three
to one in the in the Finals. They're clearly the
better team, but it's still Lebron on the other side
and Dwayne Wade, and we already know. You can't just
go up three games to two against them because they're
gonna come back and get you. You can't just beat
up by five points in the final thirty seconds of
a game because they're gonna come back and get you.
(13:53):
You got to kill these guys. You're like, we were
confident we were going to win, but we're still terrified,
we being Spurs fans. There's a point in the third
quarter where where the Spurs hit three consecutive threes to
sort of open the game up to go up by twenty. Now,
twenty feels like a good number to be up in
the in the finals at home but it's just the
(14:14):
Spurs come down. They hit a three. I think the
heat come down. Chris Bosh hits a lay up, the
spurs come down, they hit another three. The heat come down,
they missed, and the Spurs come down, and the last
three is Mono Genobli. It's Kawhi Leonard on the break.
They've already hit the two in a row over the
course of like, you know, fifty seconds, but they're coming up.
(14:35):
Kawhi spots Manu in his spot, throws the ball out there.
Manu lets it go. There's no reason for him to
shoot this shot other than it's time to kill the
Miami Heat. He lets it go. It drops in the place,
goes fucking bonkers. Mike Breen, maybe my favorite like color commentator,
(14:56):
just screws oh in avalanche in San Antonio, and I
will always remember him describing it as an avalanche, because
that's exactly what I felt. You knew in that moment
you were going to win the championship. You were going
to avenge the twenty thirteen loss. You were going to
wash away all these bad memories and this bad taste
that you had in your mouth for the past eighteen
months or whatever. It was a year. That's that's the
(15:19):
one I think I'm thinking about right now because that
was just like pure elation when that when that, when
Monon shot that shot, you know what I mean, there's
what a sequence it was.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah, it's a it was a dismantling, you know what
I mean. It was like a business trip, revenge tour
and then came out there and got it done. I
think that is you know, appropriately said it was poetic
to watch. I live in the South Florida area and
I'm not a heat fan, so I enjoyed that very much.
Let me just say so, I want to get into
(15:51):
this the examples of ghost stories and Grail stories. Oh yeah,
and ah, I found it, you know as kind of peruising.
I was like, man, this is really interesting, and I think,
you know some of the stuff that a Grail might
be ghosts for the team that I guess it happened
happened against too well. One of the things I was
and I guess this is maybe a bit it was
(16:11):
foiler for me because I haven't got through the book itself.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
I gotta know.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Is Kings versus Lakers? I think that's two thousand and one.
Is that in there, like, you know Big Bob's shot.
You know that more or less kind of turned the
series around, you know, in favor of Sacramento.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Is that in there as a ghost story for maybe
for Sacramento.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
Yeah, that's a ghost story. That's two thousand and two.
When that happens, Oh, two thousand and two, Game four,
the Kings are up up by two, the final seconds
are tipping taking away. Kobe gets into the lane and
he gets the shot up. They miss, Shaq gets the rebound.
He throws it at the rim, that goofy two handed
nonsense he would do when he couldn't dunk it. He misses.
(16:52):
You're like, they're gonna do it. They're gonna fucking do it.
They're gonna go up three to one against the Bullies,
the back to back champs. And then Vlotti Depot grab
the ball. V Lottie grab He flaps it out straight
to Robert or the one guy, the one guy who
you can't hit it to, and Robert lets it go
(17:13):
splashes in game over at the buzzer. What a heartbreak
him up. Yeah, that's a ghost story. So you know,
the Grail story is the best thing that's ever happened
in franchise, like the single best play, ghost Story is
the single worst play. That's the one for Sacramento. That's
the one where it's like, if that doesn't happen, you're
not losing three games in a row to the to
(17:33):
the Los Angeles Lakers after you've just beaten them three
out of four. But that I watched this documentary one time.
So remember the when the NBA would do a thing
where a team would win a championship and then immediately
after it would be a commercial and it's like, order
the championship package, you get a T shirt and a
DVD and it's coming out like the video. So I
(17:54):
would of course get that every single time the Spurs
would win. And on the two thousand and three one,
there's a moment where they're interviewing David Robinson and he's
talking about how when you win a championship, as you're
going through the playoffs, there will be like one thing
that happens that makes you go, oh, it's our year,
We're gonna win it this year. Right when they're talking
(18:15):
with David about the two thousand and three championship, he
mentioned specifically it's a Robert Orriy shot, a Spurs were
up by like twenty five. The Lakers come flying back.
The game ends with Robert Rorri with the ball in
his hands and a chance to win the game. He
shoots at three. They're down by two. If it goes in,
the Lakers are going to do what the Lakers always do,
which is destroy San Antonio. But it rattles around and
(18:36):
then it spits back out. It's as close to going
in as you can get to going in without going in.
But David says when he saw the ball spit out,
he went, oh, we're going to beat the Lakers this time.
Like that was God telling me it's our time to win.
Right when Robert Rorri shoots that shot and that ball
drops in, I guarantee you the Lakers were like, we're
not losing. We're going to win another champion. That was
(18:57):
the moment that they said to themselves, these guys can't
beat us, Nobody can beat us. We're gonna We're gonna
just grab the fucking ball. V Lottie, please, I'm begging you.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
It's it's tough.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
I mean again, I'm hearing I'm bearing all kinds of
directions here too. So were the Kings robbed though you
know by the rest. I don't know if you've ever
covered that game.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
To game six. Game six is a tough watch from
a from a from a referee standpoint, the whole Dona
heat part. Like theyre like it said, you can't not
talk about that. But what I always go back to
is that that was game six, that wasn't Game seven.
And you have a game seven, and you have a
Game seven at home, and you have a Game seven
(19:40):
at home with Pagristojakovic in the corner, wide open, with
a chance to win the game shooting a three. Nobody
is within fifteen feet of your best shooter, and he
air balls it. He airball the best shooter that you imagine,
Steph Curry with a chance to win the game, and
he air You could put nine guys on Steph Curry.
(20:02):
He's not going to air ball a three. It might
clank off the backboard like when Kevin Love was guarding
number the twenty six finals, but he's not going to
airball the patient airballed it. I think I think I
read a thing one time where he's like, that's the
worst shot of my career. I think about it all
all the time because if that goes in they win
the game, like you got you gotta you gotta eat
that one. You know, it is, It's true, It's very true.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
I'm sticking on the points of the grail you know
is there because you seem to have a very extensive,
you know, almost photographic memory of you know basketball, you
know Dainny years back.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Is there any.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Player that might have multiple girl moments, like for different franchises,
like a Lebron right, who's you?
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Oh yeah, three teams and one championships, right.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Yeah, Lebron Lebron. I mean, he obviously has the grail
moment for the Cleveland Cavaliers. That's the game seven flock.
You can probably you can probably pick something out this
will this will be like a sort of if I
was trying to be cutesy about it, I'd be like, oh,
the his his grail moment for the Heat is when
(21:06):
he takes his fucking headband off against the Spurs and
just turns into somehow turns into Superman, Like.
Speaker 6 (21:12):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
When we were beating him, when he had the head
bend on, he took that ship off, we couldn't do
nothing with him. It was it was like it's like
when you're getting gonna get into a fistfight with a
guy and he takes his shirt off, and you're like, fuck,
this guy's done this before, you know what I mean?
Like oh no, no, like oh no, oh no. You
could probably argue that Jordan, he obviously has a grail
moment for the Bulls, but like, what's a better moment
(21:34):
for the Washington Wizards than maybe the the when he
pins the shot on the block against the backboard. Remember
when he did that. There's like a guy going in
for a layup. He jumps, he blocks the ball, but
he grabs it and holds it like against the backboard,
comes down with it, and then looks at him and
it's like, I'm Michael fucking Jordan, you know what I mean,
(21:56):
It's probably it's probably gonna be gonna be one of
one of those guys.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
Nah.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I I appreciate this conversation again with say Sean to
make sure you get his new book out there, Expensive
Basketball Shake a couple of last ones here. I think again,
just the way that you describe things again really is
just perfect because there's I guess it's like the forward
in the beginning of the book. There's like you don't
need to know anything about this thing to understand what
(22:25):
it is. I think comparing like Ray Allen's jump shot
just jo Noah's jump shot, you can just look at
that and you know which one is probably the more
correct or appropriate thing. How did how does your mind
work in essence to be able to, I guess, articulate
that level of imagery, you know, I mean to your readers.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
I think that just comes with with repetition, Like you
gotta you're like you're seeing the finished product right, the book,
the book. I worked on the book for write about
four years. So I wrote that intro and rewrote it
and edited it and re edited it, and rewrote it
like I'd worked on it twenty five times to try
(23:07):
to get it right. So you know, you have to
sort of keep that in mind whenever you're reading, like
a book or a thing that somebody has has given
to you. But typically what I do is is I
try to identify whatever the feeling is that I want
to write about and then come up with ways to
do that, and then then I just start writing until
(23:29):
you just do it until it feels right. You just
type and read until it feels right. I always do
a thing where where I read out loud the thing
that I've written to see does it sound right? Does
it sound like this is how a human would talk,
or does it sound like I'm trying to be like
a little too clever here, let me fix that. Does
(23:50):
it sound like does it have the same sort of
cadence that I have when I'm talking. You probably have
noticed here, But there will be moments when I'm going
or we're like very excited about a thing to start
talking real quick, and then there'll be like a pause
or a break as I like my brain catches back
up to the thoughts and now I'm gonna go, like
(24:11):
I want the writing to to feel the same way.
But always what I'm doing is I identified the feeling
and then find stuff that matches that. So with the
Tim Duncan chapter, that's the first chapter in the book.
That's always a very easy example to cite if somebody
asks me a version of this question, because it's like, Okay, well,
I'm writing about Tim Duncan because he made me feel
(24:31):
this like thing, this like inevitable destruction, right that he
would he would just lean on you and lean on
you and lean on you, and then you would break
and that's how he played basketball, and I loved it.
And so I'm like, all right, well, the very easy,
like the very easy analogy to make theirs is like,
(24:52):
that's what the terminator did. He would just the terminator
just kept on coming and coming and coming and coming
until eventually you were dead. That's all that he did.
And you either killed him or he killed you, but
he'd never stopped like chasing after you. And I felt
the same way watching Tim Duncan play basketball as like
watching that movie. So there's that part of it. But
there's also this like poem that's in the book just
(25:15):
for no reason at all, in that chapter. It's like
a poem from the eighteen hundreds that I read that
had this like indescribable beauty to it, and so I'm
just gonna I'm just gonna put that in the chapter
as well, and like hopefully when you're reading through it
as a reader, you get to it and you're like,
why is this in here? And then by the end
of it, you go, oh, I get I get why
it's in there. Now everything here feels like the way
(25:37):
Tim Duncan plays basketball, and that's what we're That's what
we're doing. That's what I'm trying to do with each
of the chapters.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
No, I think it's coming across, you know extremely well,
Chay Scharana, last two questions here for you. So many
things are in it, right and you know from Klay Thompson,
Diana Tarassi and you know Vince Carter.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
Magic's in there, I believe as well.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
To you, Like, there's just a lot of odes and
understanding because it's you knows, thirty teams, you know, expansion
the whole Nott, etcetera, et cetera. And then I guess
what didn't make it? Like, what's one thing in there
that you wish you know on that I made it?
On the chopping floor, the chopping floor, I listen, this
is good, But yeah, we're just kind of at our
(26:20):
max for this ding.
Speaker 5 (26:21):
Okay. So that's a great question because that always happens
with every single book of this kind, right, Like there's
a finite space in the book, in this case, three
hundred and fifty two pages that I have to work with.
Some of it gets designated for the index and for
the acknowledgments. Whatever you end up with, effectively, thirty chapters
(26:42):
is what I had space for I wrote thirty four
thirty five of them and then plugged in the ones
that I that I wanted. But what I'm doing whenever
I'm making the book is I'm trying to create like
a full view of something. Like when I did the
Rep Yearbook, I was trying to create like a full
view of rap. What I did this one, I'm trying
(27:03):
to create like a full view of the spectrum of
emotions that you can get while watching basketball. I want
to hit each of the each of the things. So
I started plugging in pieces. You know, Tim Duncan made
me feel this, Kobe made me feel this, Klay Thompson's
third quarter made me feel this. And you're trying to
like just have stuff for each of the things, right,
(27:25):
and the stuff that ends up not making it is
the stuff that's like a duplicate of something else. So
we talked about the two thousand and two Sacramento Kings.
Earlier in the book, there's a chapter about the nineteen
ninety three Charlotte Hornets. There's a team that never won
a championship. They never even really contended. They won one
playoff series, but there was just like it was just
(27:47):
like this perfect mixture of things that all happened with
this is an expansion team. They end up drafting like
a couple of really cool players and Alonzo Morning than
Larry Johnson. They have like this incredible way that we
had never seen before. Their their mascot is this incredibly
cool Hugo the Hornet guy. Like it was all. They
(28:09):
went to a city that was basketball crazy, and it
was all of these things that just made the nineteen
ninety three Charlotte Hornets, for some reason, like an everlasting team.
You were never going to forget them. Everybody who grew
up in that time desperately wanted the starter jacket or
a hat or anything you could get your hand on.
It was like deal, yeah, the teal right, it was
(28:30):
like this. It was like a shorthand. Saying you liked
this nineteen ninety three Charlotte Hornets was like the same
as saying you liked M. F. Doom. It says like
something about your taste as a yeah, right. And so
I wrote that chapter and had that in there, and
then I wrote a chapter about the two thousand and
two Sacramento Kings, another team that you know, this is
(28:51):
over a decade later, but they show up and they
play basketball, and it's like and then and what is
viewed as an objectively, objectively beautiful way You watch them
play basketball, and you said this, I don't know anything
about Sacramento, but I watched these guys play basketball, and
it's beautiful. That looks like what I think basketball should
look like. The balls zipping around, everybody moving, all of
(29:13):
these like it was great. Right, But they had like
the same story. The essence there was the same thing
as the Charlotte Hornet's chapter in that a team doesn't
have to win a championship to be remembered forever. A
team doesn't have to like have the best player in
the league to be like a meaningful cultural experience. Right,
We're never gonna forget that Hornets team. We're never gonna
(29:35):
forget the two thousand and two Sacramento Kings or the
or the seven seconds or less Phoenix Sun Like those
teams are important too, Right. But I was looking at
those two chapters and I said, well, these are these
two things are effectively saying the same thing. I don't
need both of them, So I'm gonna get one one
out of here, you know what. So that chapter got
(29:55):
out of there there's a Kevin Garnett chapter that when
I was looking at it, I was like, I have
a Tim Duncan chapter. I have a Dirk Navinski chapter.
I don't need another power forward from this era chapter
saying sort of a similar thing as these two and
so so those are two of them. That those were
the last two that I was like, I want these
in here, but I can't fit them. I gotta get
(30:17):
them out, sham.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Need you send me the editors cut the extended version.
I'm gonna need that because all of that is super
interesting to me. The Hornets team, I just remember, even
just like like culturally they were killer, Like on NBA
jams you had.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
You had twelve year old kids living in fucking Boston
who were like Larry Johnson and Alonzo Morning and like,
that's my team.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Fire, absolutely, fire, Shaye.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Before I let you slide, just make sure you tell
people where they can find you the book, et cetera,
et cetera.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
But also, do you feel like.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
A non basketball fan can enjoy this book or do
you just kind of have to love basketball the NBA
in essence to.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Be able to really understand what the book is kind
of for.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
I think you can I think you can enjoy this
book without being like a basketball fan. Right, Some of
my some of my favorite books are books about stuff
that I don't know anything about, because it's just it's
it's always to be fun to read something written by
somebody who you can tell they care about a thing. Right,
(31:32):
Because I like you and I could talk about we
probably talked about basketball for the next four hours. It
would be a totally easy, comfortable conversation. But at some
point during that conversation, you're going to tell me about
your favorite basketball player. Who who's your favorite basketball player
or favorite basketball player? Layer one guy, well of all
(31:54):
of all time, it's George. George. George's got to be short, right,
you grew up in that age. It's Jordan is your guy.
Jordan is not my favorite basketball player, but I would
love to hear you talk about Jordan because, in addition
to learning about you, which would be interesting to me,
you would say a bunch of stuff during the course
(32:14):
of that that would make me go, Okay, I feel
like that about this other guy, and that and and
and and you connect. So that sort of thing I wrote.
I read a book one time. Uh. It was by
Bill Simmons about baseball. It was about the Boston Reds,
like a bunch of stuff bout Boston Reds, like I
know anything about baseball, But reading it, he's just writing
(32:35):
in a way that makes me go like, oh, he
cares about this the way that I care about this
other thing. And so you can connect with it. So
now you don't need to be a basketball fan to
reading shorts of basketball. What it does make it so
much better. Though, if you get like if you if
you you should, if you're a basketball guy, basketball girl,
you grew up watching basketball at some point, you should
(32:56):
read it and go like, I remember that that was
fucking cool, and I'm not I'm gonna look it up
on YouTube and like it does. It does help a lot,
but it doesn't. You know, you know somebody who hadn't
read basketball shirt, they'll laugh at something in there.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Nah, they absolutely will.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
And again me as somebody who cares about this form
the way that I do, and have had multiple iterational
players who I really do identify with and care about.
You know, you talk about Jordan, I was a big
KG guy. I was actually a big Weber guy, and
you know what keeping to achieve just somebody who I
really enjoyed, you know, from his Michigan days and then
really wanted to seem succeed in the NBA. But in
any event, we are definitely past our time and I
(33:34):
want to be respectful.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Are we to make sure you are? Wait to ask
you a question?
Speaker 5 (33:39):
Who's your guy? Who's your guy today?
Speaker 1 (33:43):
You know that's a hard one.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I think I'm becoming a little bit more jaded, you know,
in terms of who I'm like rooting for. It's hard,
Like I like Tatum and it's hard.
Speaker 5 (33:55):
Now again, I don't.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Want to be like so I don't know easy so
to speak, and like like picking the easy fruit, like
lowest hanging fruit.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
But what I'm seeing Wemby do right now, I'm like, oh.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
Oh yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
So it's like it's just really interesting to kind of
watch like the evolution of the player itself, right and
how what we thought was taboo before. You know, I
always go back to whin Sabonus like a big Si
Bonus Vetus was in there and shooting threes to now
we're like, well, yeah, you need to be a stretch five,
Like why aren't you shooting?
Speaker 1 (34:26):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (34:27):
In ar Vedas I was was kind of not necessarily
vilified for it, but you know, they get down in
the post some more. It was just the game is
is so magical, you know, and the evolution of it
is really really interesting. And how it's covered also, I
think is really interesting as well too. So yeah, I mean,
as a Spurs person, so are you, you know, by
proxy have to be a Wemby guy right.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
Now, I'm a I'm a I'm a Wemby guy. But
to your point that that's the easiest possible thing to say.
Separate of Wemby, I'm a Castle guy. I'm a Dylan
Harper guy. Of course. I mean these these are my
young Spurs. I'm a I really want, I really want you.
I want let's go. I want the switch to click
for LaMelo. I want him to become the guy that
(35:09):
I think he can become. You mentioned Tatum. A couple
of years ago, I was working on this other book,
a book about rap called hip Hop and other things,
and and I was working with researcher. I always have
a researcher when I'm doing the book because I like
want to have all of the information I can get.
And so there's this guy named Dart Adams, who's like
(35:30):
a rap historian, and so I reached you know, Dart. Okay,
I reached out to Dart and I'm like, hey, can
you you want to like research for this book in
fact check this book for me so that it's bulletproof,
And he's like, yeah, I got you know, sweat. He's
also a huge basketball fan, and so over the course
of like two or three years or whatever it was
I was working on I probably emailed them who knows
(35:50):
how many times. First of all, it was crazy to
be like, hey, there's like this old article from a
Vibe magazine that I'm like trying to find, like, do
you know where I can find them on the internet?
And He'll just text me back a picture of the magazine.
He's like, oh, you mean this one? Like he has
physical copies of everything. It was unra It's like he
lives in a fucking rap He's on the museum. It
was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Right.
Speaker 5 (36:10):
It got to the point where I would just ask
him for random shit and he'd be like, you mean
this right here, send him a thing. It was great,
But we were working on the book and during that
During that time, the Spurs and the Celtics played and
the Spurs had like gone up huge on the Celtics.
They're up by like twenty twenty five points or something.
I'm like, it's over. It's a wrap. This is pre championship.
(36:31):
I think it was a season that they went on
to win the championship. So you weren't like all the
way afraid of the Celtics yet. But then Jason Tatum
went fucking nuts. He ended up hanging like like a
fifty ball on us, and they come back and they win,
and it was a disaster. But that night Dart is
like a Boston guy. He's like from Boston, he lives there,
and so this this game happens. I don't say anything
(36:52):
to him about it. I just send him an email
later that night like hey, I finished another chapter, like
can you I need you to can you do your thing?
And he's like, yeah, no, sweats, send it to me.
And I send him the chapter. But all that was
when he opened it, it just it just said Jason
Tatum sucks and that was it.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Datus fucking good, dude.
Speaker 5 (37:11):
He ruined my life that night. What a disaster that was.
I really want him to come back and be better
than like pre injury. I don't, you know, Yeah, I'm scared,
I'm nervous.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Well, I'm hopeful, you know, I definitely want to see
that for him and and kind of get a pop
in and see the Celtics and Tatum specifically kind of
get back to some somewhats of glory. But there are
so many great players out there, and you know, like
we want to celebrate the game. And yes, you can
be critical, but I mean everythink doing it fairly, you know,
is an important situation and understanding that these are human
(37:46):
beings first and foremost. And that's what I love about
trying to do what we do here on our show
and people who we bring on, right, Like there's an
appreciation of love for the game, understanding that the two
sides of the story. But we don't need to like denigrate, right,
We can be critical, like you being a LaMelo ball
guy is interesting, right, and I think there's a lot
of people who are not, and say, like Jase Ronto,
(38:06):
like Wamelo love LaMelo.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
That was crazy.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
He's fun. No, he is, He's fun. And I think
you're right, Like, and when it does and if it
does click, it's going to be super like it's going
to be amazing. It's going to be like this redemption
arc that many of us are probably I don't want
to say rooting against, but just don't see coming.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
I know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (38:23):
I talked about this on the I don't remember what
the other show was, but LaMelo came up and I
was talking about this was right after that game against
Philly when he shoots a terrible three pointer at the
end of the game, like the worst shot you can shoot,
and then Philly comes down and they hit a three
and they win the game. But I was, I was
when I'm watching this happen again, I'm watching Mello, I'm
(38:47):
watching the games. When I watched it happen, I didn't
get the sense that he shot that shot in like
a Jordan Poole, I'm just shooting a bad shot kind
of right, I'm just gonna get it up there. I
got the sense that he shot that shot in like
pursuit of a moment, you know what I mean. And
this is this is I keep saying this anytime I
(39:09):
bring this up. This is like a sacrilegious basketball comparison
to make. But when he shot that shot, I thought
of Kobe. I thought of Kobe against the Utah Jazz
shooting those four airballs in the playoffs, right.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
He did, like I'm gonna do this thing.
Speaker 5 (39:25):
He wasn't shooting it, like he didn't understand that that
was maybe not the shot to take, or that he
was scared in the moment, or it was a bad shot.
It felt like he was shooting it in pursuit of
this is a step I need to take as I
become the like player. I'm going to become one of
the greatest basketball players of all time. It felt it
(39:45):
felt watching LaMelo shoot that shot. I didn't get the
sense I'm just chucking it up there. I got the
sense I need I need a moment, I need a thing,
and I'm the best. I'm always gonna argue in favor
of LaMelo. I'm rooining for you. Come on, LaMelo, figure
it out, baby.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Oh let's go. Let's go.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
My god, I've enjoyed this so much in Shay, you know,
I do hope that at some point we're able to
connect again, you know, down the line, even outside of
the book and you go back and read I'm a
big hip hop fan. My co host who's not with
us here today again, Super hip hop fan used to
wrap back in the day, as.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
A lot of us did, and the whole nine. So
I think there's so many ways of conversation we could.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
We could dive into you're a busy guy, and I
get it, you know what I mean, everyone's talking at you,
but we'd love to bring you back.
Speaker 5 (40:29):
I'm in sign me up, let's go, all right.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
He is the amazing Chase Rhno. You can follow him
on all social media platforms. Shay tell the people again
where the books book is available? And one last plot
before you get sign up.
Speaker 5 (40:42):
Out of the book is available everywhere they sell books.
Expensive Basketball. If you don't want to go to a store,
just type it into your cell phone and it'll pop up,
and then buy it from that. But buy it, buy
it somewhere. I gotta I got two kids in college,
you know what I mean. Go buy the book.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
We got kids to feed, Bill, pay nothing, make it happen.
He it is the amazing Serrando Expensive Basketball. On the baseline,
This has been faceline with the baseline with say Seranto,
We'll be right back here after this break.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
All right, time now to do a little after mask
Calie Warrenshaw basedline NBA podcasts. What an awesome conversation that
you were able to, you know, partake with you know,
such a well known and a best selling author, you know,
someone who has been in a game for quite some time,
(41:42):
and someone who obviously has the ability to, like you know,
really kind of bring everything within the scope of what
we enjoy, what we appreciate and tie it together.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
It's you know, sometimes when you have conversations.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
With with with writers, they you know, they literally will
just go over your head. Unfortunately, we've never had that.
You know, he continues to be a part of that
list of just great conversationalists and people who feel like
what they're offering us to learn more and understand more
is something more of like, hey, I'm paying it forward.
(42:19):
I'm passing it forward. You know, in most cases, most
authors right to get paid. But in other words, his
payment comes in us seeing a different side or maybe
even being on the same page where he's coming from
when he puts together such a well scripted, you know,
well drafted book like the one that's coming out.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
Yeah, Shay is you know, he's he's he's invested in
the work that he's doing, and you love to have
that level of conversation. You know, in our conversation, like
we veered off and we just started talking basketball, like
even not just the book, and that just kind of
shows you how passionate he is about the work itself,
even throwing questions back to me and you know, what
(42:58):
are some of my favorite moments?
Speaker 5 (42:59):
Who are my favorite players?
Speaker 3 (43:01):
And you know, in some ways gone off topic, but
if you're really thinking about it. For me, though, we
weren't off topic because the topic was basketball and our
love for the game and our and our enjoyment for it.
And I really love how he was able to explain
that this isn't this disrespect to analytics and just really
(43:22):
understanding how the game has changed and how we consume it,
but there's still certain things you just know by looking
and seeing it. And it was this book is really
about how basketball makes you feel. And that, to me
was I think so poignant and excellent to have that
level of conversation with him, because he alluded to, like, yeah,
certain things that we're talking about now, you see, like
how I lean up into my chair and like I'm
(43:44):
just talking, you know, really quickly because I'm so passionate
about it.
Speaker 5 (43:48):
And then I realized Hey, I'm talking to you fast.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
I need to slow down and let my brain catch up,
and you know what I mean, and slow down or whatever.
But then I get talking again because I'm still excited
about that topic. That to me is what you know.
I think anybody who was truly abosket Well fan will
really enjoy this book if you just even beginning the
opening intro. There's so much good stuff in there that
that you'll be able to notate. And in the conversation
we talk about that as well too, Like the difference
were you would never have to watch basketball ever to know, Okay,
(44:15):
looking at ray Allen's jump shot, and you can know
his jump shot from back in the day, Oh, which
one looks more right to you?
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Right?
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Like you would like you would never have ever have
to play to just look at it and know what
what feels right about that situation.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
And that the.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Book is littered with those types of examples and the
odes to some of the people that Shaye was really
excited about, you know, growing up and watching watching this game.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
As well too.
Speaker 5 (44:39):
Man, it was an amazing, amazing conversation.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
I'm sorry that you weren't able to enjoy it, you know,
with me, man, it was it was it was hard
to ride, and it was a little.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Dolo on it, but it was still, you know, a
great ride.
Speaker 4 (44:49):
Nonetheless, I think, you know, one of the things that
I'm I'm able to appreciate when you have these kind
of conversations and you know, of course I would love
to in there for it, but I think one of
the things that you know, it kind of ties itself
back to what we were just talking about earlier before.
You know, one of the reasons why we did this,
(45:10):
we've been doing this podcast was because we wanted there
to be a dedicated space to have the conversations about
basketball free of the restraints of you know what radio
typically does, TV typically does, and now even with podcasts,
right like, I feel like there are times where we
often restrain ourselves from having those real deep in conversations
(45:33):
because it's about you know, paying attention more to a
person's you know, bandwidth to be able to consume stuff,
but you actually have to talk through it to find
where it makes sense to people. And the only way
that you're able to do that is to be in
space is that allow those individuals to freely speak about
those things, and maybe you may go on a tangent.
(45:54):
Maybe you may get off of the beaten path, but
you're on a path nonetheless. Eventually the intent is to
get somewhere to wherever that journey laid you to. That's
the destination, right, And I think us being able to
have a platform that allows that to be the case.
I think in ways, you know, it kind of re
(46:16):
humbles us back to the point where it's like, yeah,
this is why we're unique, right, because we're giving everyone
their opportunity to maybe take us off the beaten path,
but eventually we'll be with them on this journey, right.
And I think making sure that someone like a Chase
of Rono helps us get us back to that part
(46:37):
of it. You know, it doesn't happen all the time,
but when it does, it's utopia.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (46:43):
It's beautiful, right, Like it all kind of makes sense.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
And I'm just glad that he felt that, you know
what I'm.
Speaker 4 (46:51):
Saying with you, I know it's all the norm is
when it's both of us, But when he knows that
he can have that conversation with you, I know it
eventually I could have that conversation with him.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
You know what I'm saying, and anyone and that I mean,
that's inherent, you know.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
So that interesting because because he's not one dimensional, right,
and you know, in the conversation, I bring up the
fact that, yeah, you know we are hip hop heads
as well too, and he wrote like the hip hop
your book not too long ago, and so he understands
that and the same thing, how it does hip hop.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
You know, make you feel.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
And it was just really interesting to know, you know,
how tappedin he is.
Speaker 5 (47:29):
But you should be told to our listeners, you know.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
I think any most journalists or people in this space,
like you'll have a list of questions, but as you
alluding to, sometimes, you know you got to throw that
out the window, like the conversation takes you somewhere else,
and you know you kind of have to like freestyle it, right,
and you're like, well, we're gonna talk about this now
because this is the vibe that we're on. So while
I may have a list of questions or things and
I think I want to touch on based on excerpts
(47:54):
of the book that I've seen, things like I want
to really hit on again his opinion on.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
For the book.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
Again, we were talking a basketball and that led me
off air quote script for some of the things that
I was like, oh well, let me ask about this
chapter and why did he name the chapter this, and
why did he do that whatever, whatever, because that was
more interesting, you know, the way that he was his passion.
I was feeding off of that as well too. So uh,
I'm excited to dive into the full throttle aspect of
(48:21):
his book, Expensive Basketball.
Speaker 5 (48:23):
I would encourage everybody to check it out and and
give it a read.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Man.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
I think you'll be hooked literally just by by the
intro and then you'll kind of get the vibe for
what he's trying to do and understand why he's one
of the best, you know, in in our business and why,
you know, I jokingly said, why his podcast beat ours,
you know, for the best sports Best Basketball Sports Pastcast award,
you know, and it's h and his buddy Jason Concepcion.
Speaker 5 (48:47):
Like, like, they do good work, man, we do good
work as well too.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
But even his tongue in cheek nature of that, he's like, yeah,
it's like, yeah, we beat you guys out by the buzzer.
And I was like, yeah, Daan Lillard style, Like he
was like, yeah, you know, what I mean, So just
a lot of fun just two dudes, and obviously if
you would have been to three dudes talking hoops who
understand the culture, we're all of similar ages and things
like that too. It so it made it even that
much more exciting because there's a lot of things I
(49:11):
could relate to that.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
You know, some of.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
Our younger NBA fans may not just like they didn't
live that time, you know. Uh, but you know, it's
really really great to be able to see the then
and the now and even kind of even looking ahead
to the future with like the Wembes of the world
as well to Anthony Edwards, et cetera.
Speaker 6 (49:27):
Et cetera.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
Yeah, absolutely, man, and once again, you know, big shout out,
you know, to our our guest Chase Rano.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Again.
Speaker 4 (49:36):
The book is called Expensive Basketball. I believe it's available
on you know, on major anywhere.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
You can get books. That's what he told me. He's like,
anywhere you get books, that's where I can.
Speaker 4 (49:47):
Know, you know what I'm saying, like, you know, be literate,
be in the moment, be literate, and uh and and
and definitely cop you know, cop the book and then
as well too know follow you know, shade and and
you know the show and you know what they got
going on. You know, we're always about brought you know, expansion,
(50:11):
you know what I'm saying. And uh, I believe people
will definitely benefit uh from this experience. And and again,
you know, kudos to Yu Shaw, great interview, you know,
way to lay it down, you know what I'm saying.
And and again this is what this is what happens,
you know what I'm saying. When we get people up
on you know, to do a little face time with
the baseline, that's just you know, just just the way
(50:32):
it is. We're not just not just being one take
Jakes man. It's it's it's actually speaking into existence the
organic flow of great conversations and and not just learning
more about you know, just the game itself and learning
about the people who are influenced by the game and
the culture and what it's doing.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
So kudos my friend.
Speaker 5 (50:52):
Nah, I definitely appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
And again shout out to him.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
You know, we were you know, the public says that, hey,
you have X amount of minutes, and we went well
over that time, you know, and I was even like, oh,
I'm mean rap, and he was like, I'm good, you know,
and so he just kind of kept going and uh,
it was it was a good conversation.
Speaker 5 (51:07):
I think this is gonna be something something that people.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
Will really enjoy. And again, just get the book man,
you will not be disappointed. Extensive basketball by shayst Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
Once again, we'd like to thank you and yours for
hopping all board with us this week for the baseline
Calie Warne Show.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
We appreciate you, guys, you know we do. You should
have caught that book, you know what I'm saying, and
we catch him with you next time.
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