Western Conference Meltdown: 4 Teams In Trouble (Pelicans, Kings, Clippers, Mavericks)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
What's good. Everybody is your boy cal game Face Lee.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
And it's me Warrenshaw and we are officially live on millions, y'all.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
That's right, The Baseline NBA podcast is officially live. Just
go to millions dot co and go to our profile
the Baseline NBA Podcast to check out more dope content
curated just for you.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
And if you're looking to book with us, collaborate us,
or get with us in any way, that's the spot
to make sure that that happens, y'all.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Absolutely so be sure to go to millions dot co.
You already know. Keep it real here the Baseline NBA Podcast.
Your boy Cayl gave Face Lee and my man warren
Shaw hit us up on millions. Don't miss out. This
is the Baseline discussing the hot button topics of the NBA.

(00:51):
Welcome everybody, your tune to the Baseline Cali Warrenshaw discussing
the hot button topics of the NBA. We are now
entering that time of the year, gobble, gobble, the gifts
that keeps on giving before we actually get to Christmas,
and that is the NBA. And let it not be
said that you were probably what a week or so

(01:15):
away from quote unquote the biggest scandal and NBA hits it.
That is an afterthought because people need to be paying
attention to all the good basketball and the good basketball
drama that is taking your way. I can't say you
know more than what it actually speaks to for itself, Shaw,
because you know, when it comes down to the NBA man.

(01:36):
I know people got land Man, I know they got
Tulsa King, but nothing beats a good NBA story at
the early outset of the season.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
I like where you're going with that. I'm a big
land Man guy. I think Landman comes back tonight. Actually
I'm gonna I'm definitely dig into that because evening, Uh,
not too big. Not too big on the Tulsa King down,
you know Sloan and yeah, not with it.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
But either way, don't be sleeping on that, man. Don't
be sleeping on that.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Watched the first half of US.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Let me let me say this, man, Let me say this,
Billy Bob Thornton, It's got to be one of the
most fortunate dudes you will ever see in acting. You
know what I'm saying, Like seriously, like in his real
life he had Angelina and Jolie at some point and
in his acting life, he's got Ali Laura La. I mean,

(02:24):
damn man, damn her.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
But sometimes I say, you got to create your own luck,
and Billy Bob has definitely done that.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
I mean he's struck. He struck, he struck oil.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
But true, that's true.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
He was striking oil.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah. So but if you're if you're a fan of
the Listener, the baseline be like our little TV as
well too. But you know again, I didn't even know,
like I watched that man like that, so that's really interesting.
So uh, you know, we'll have to we'll have to
debrief about that another time. But I go away for
a week dog and it's like there was some really
amazing games had happened in the course of the week,

(03:02):
like that Heat Calves game, you know with the Wiggins
you know thing, and then Curry going nuclear in San Antonio.
Like there was some really great things that happened. So
the Knicks in the Heat the other night, right, like
just good stuff. But that's what New York that's.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Mind me heat we all go over one hundred and
forty points. I don't ever recall a game, you know
what I'm saying in their history where they were landing
somewhere between a hundred and forty point. That's when you
know that the landscape is shifted, you know, with the
perception of what teams look like back in the day,

(03:37):
you know, and maybe then it's easy for us to
be calling us old heads because of it. But damn man,
like I I don't even think of Eric Sposter era.
He had a team, you know what I'm saying, land
over one hundred and thirty five points, unless you know
what I'm saying. It was like a blowout loss and
he just you know, put his foot on the guest.
He scored one hundred and thirty two points and that

(03:58):
team still lost.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
It's it's it's interesting to watch how certain teams are
are are matriculating throughout the course of the season the
first whatever ten to twelve games, depending on you know
which team we're talking about. But we are not here
talking about and celebrate the magnificent play of basketball here
on this week's show, We're here to talk about teams
who don't have their preferrebial shit together. And you know,

(04:21):
it's gonna be really interesting to kind of go through
four teams in the Western Conference who were just I
like to say, withering in the West. That's gonna be
my my little tag line for this episode.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, I think it's It's an interesting conversation that we're
going to have, Shaw because listen, we were on our
previews and we've had you know, guests come on to
give us their perspective of what was going on, and
by all accounts, everyone still believed that the Western Conference
arguably is going to be head and shoulders the better conference.

(04:54):
But when we talk about these four teams, you know,
it kind of begs to under like under what criteria
we are we grading these struggles?

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Right?

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Like, these are some real, actual struggles that can have
long term effects no matter how you slice it, but
they have. All of these teams have been a part
of the playoff fabric of the Western Conference in some way,
shape or form over the last you know, five to
ten years. And so now if those teams are no
longer going to be relevant, right, Like, what are we
saying about what the Western Conference is going to look

(05:27):
like by the time we get to the end of
the season. And I think the thing that we were saying, Sean,
is is that the Western Conference is so highly contested
that even if teams like this are struggling, they still
may be within striking distance to upset the Apple card
or change the narrative about what the you know, the
playoff picture may look like the way that these teams
look currently, and with the issue that we're going to

(05:48):
be addressing for each of these teams, respectively, hit a
different note about where these teams might wind up landing.
You know what I'm saying A by the time we
get to the end of the season, which I find
you know, you're pretty remarkable. The only team that we
can say it in the Eastern Conference that we know
is not going anywhere the Brooklyn next But by all accounts,

(06:09):
I don't think we would have ever thought that we
would have this earlier conversation about the teams we're talking
about in the Western Conference.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, there's so many things to dive into unpack from
your statements alone. And then again, just like the last
week and a half of THEMBA action, and I think
we are due. Ironically, I'm gonna tease next week's episode
a little Betty know, our brother Jabbari will be back
up in the joint here, and I think it will
be their appropriate time to talk ish or abandoned ship.
I think that'd be perfect since we had them on

(06:34):
one of our preview shows and primarily talk about the
Western Conference. So it makes a lot of sense here
to kind of dive into that next week. But for
this week's show, there's a lot of again, these four
teams here that don't have their proverbial stuff together right now,
and I cannot wait, cannot wait to get some of
your insight as we haven't had a chance since I
was out termsly kind of dive into what's going on
with some of these rosters.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Absolutely so big, you know, the big to do that
we're to basically be addressing is the four teams in
the Western Conference who have you know, really been in
the eye of the proverbial NBA uh you know, Newswirestorm,
the Dallas Mavericks, the you know, New Orleans Pelicans, the
LA Clippers, and the Sacramento King. So we'll be addressing

(07:19):
each of these teams in our current edition of the
baseline as always, be sure to get them a man
at de Warrenshaw Arma game face lead the show's Twitter
handt NBA basedline available in all the major platforms you
know where to find us. Go to www dot The
Baseline NBA dot com to only check this episode out,
but also the archive of episodes that we have been
laying out for you for your listening pleasure. And if

(07:41):
you're catching us on the YouTube channel, we'd like to
say hello to you and yours. And if you see
the blue and white logo down the lower left hand
corner of your screen or lower right hand corner of
your screen, let's let you know that we rocks with
the nineteen Media Group family nineteen Media Group running these
content streets, so you can go to www dot nineteen
Media Group dot com not only check us, but also
the great content creators that are part of the nineteen

(08:03):
Media Group family. Special shout out to our Peoplesmillions dot
co be sure to check out the episode. If you
love to some of our clips and amazing stuff that
we capture, you can also be found on Millions dot co,
so be sure to check those people out, as we
partnered with them for all of our social media streamings
as well too. Coming up, Sean, I will get into

(08:24):
the digs what's happening in the Western Conference. But so
that you know, this episode of the Baseline is brought
to you by Prize Picks. You and I make decisions
every day, but on Prize Picks, being right can actually
get you paid. This basketball season, I've been having a
blast making lineups. It's super simple and quick. Here's how
it works. Just pick more or less on at least

(08:46):
two player projections, and if you get them right, you
can cash in. You can even use the new stacks
feature to pick the same player up to three times
in one lineup, like more on Steps three pointers and
his assists. I've been checking out projection for Kevin Durant, Luka,
Donkic and Tyrese Maxi lately, and trust me, seeing them
hit is the chef's kiss. Prize Picks also has injury

(09:08):
reboots and fast secure withdrawals with Vemo, Apple Pay and more.
So what are you waiting for? Download the Prize Picks
apps today and use the code cln S to get
fifty dollars in lineups after you play your first five
dollar lineup. That's code clns Prize Picks. It's good to
be right. Coming up, Sean and I dig into what's
happening in the Western Conference. Don't miss it here on

(09:29):
the baseline, we are back. Cali Warrenshaw based on NBA podcasts,
and as we were mentioning earlier before, a lot of

(09:49):
craziness has been going on in the in the in
the NBA circuit, the NBA story circuit, as it pertains
to teams in the Western Conference, and really three of
the four teams that we'll be talking about our teams
that you know, we anticipated they may go through some
early struggles have been predicated on whether or not the
team would stay healthy, but there are far more sort

(10:12):
of issues now that have been surfacing in reference to
what's taking place with these teams. And the first team
though that we're gonna talk about, though we had already
walked into you know, not really high expectations, but we
knew that they were at least going to try to
be a competitive team. Well to say the least. The
New Orleans Pelicans are a team that's just absolutely come
out the gate just you know, struggling, and really there's

(10:36):
no there's no way for us to kind of even
get an idea what the future may look like for
this team. And now with the most recent news of
the Pelicans relieving Willie Green of his head coaching duties,
it really starts putting the onus back again on why
so many setbacks when it comes to the New Orleans
Pelicans and what does their future actually look like? Chillshaw,

(10:59):
I know you wanted to, you know, kind of get
my perspective on this. I've said from you know, from
Jump Street, that I expected this New Orleans Pelicans team
to struggle. I expected them to kind of, you know,
not really have a particular competitive season in the sense
that you're asking Willy Green, you know, to make this

(11:20):
team something that clearly they are not a reflection of.
And it's interesting because now you get rid of Willy Green,
who by my by my accounts, has done quite admirable
job of coaching a team that really had no business
you know, being put together the way that was being

(11:40):
put together, because you clearly can tell that there's a
disconnect between what the coach, the coach sees as you know,
the future of this organization, and what the organization sees
as the future of its organization. And so yeah, maybe,
in a way, I'm kind of happy that the Pelicans
let Willy Green go. Maybe he can find and work
with an organization that actually leaves in him enough to

(12:00):
actually allow him to one coach and two put pieces
around him that are going to allow him to coach
the way that I think we saw in the early
stages of when he was the head coach put in
New Orleans Pelicans, and you thought that they were in
sync with what they were trying to put together.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
The thing for me about Willy Green is his tenure
in New Orleans is mired and tethered to that of
Zion Williamson. Like that team, the franchise can only be
so successful when you make a draft picked of that
ilk and that guy plays you know, ten to fifteen

(12:37):
twenty games a year, and so Willie Green may have
lost up proverbial locker room. And I think for about
a week into the season we started to see signs
of that. Right like, it seems like they quit on him.
A less than Celtics team came in there and beacked
them by forty. Then they think they got beat by
forty again the very next night as well. That's a
sign of a team that just like it doesn't care anymore.

(12:58):
But again, Zion his own plaid. Five of the twelve
games Republicans have been able to play in this year
or have this year, so between that the front office
is doing whatever they're doing, and acquiring Jordan Poole for
whatever reason, and Sadiq Bay and like just kind of
this mismashup pieces. Remember Jantay Murray still hasn't played now
in over a year. Like, I don't really know what

(13:20):
will the Green was supposed to do with this, But
what we do know and what continues to stay true,
is that when a team struggles out the gate like this,
the first person to go is the head coach. And
I think that's what we have here with Willy Green.
Why everyone's like, well we saw it come in, they're
not playing, they're not responding. I get all of those things,
but this is one of those firings. Well, yeah, I

(13:40):
understand how it had to happen, but I don't necessarily
blame Willie Green specifically. He's played some material and curious
lineups I think at times, but I think he at
some point you become a mad scientist because you never
knew that was going to be available, Like this guy's
hinder all the time, in and out of the lineups
and out of the roster, and I don't know, man,

(14:01):
they're bad, They're bad. They are in the bottom third,
like twenty fifth to thirtieth and almost every statistical category
you can think of that is of any relevance. So
the only yeah, somebody had to bite the bullet here,
and unfortunately that was with they Green. But I don't
know that James Morego, you know, is a new interim
coach or new coach with Joe d kind of up
in the front office, if then thing's gonna be any

(14:21):
better here in New Orleans.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
To be honest with you, yeah, I know you have
a clip that you're going to kind of highlight with
regards to to to Berego now assuming head coaching duties.
But I wanted to chime in on something that you
were just talking about, y'all, because it's something that I
feel it seems too easy for organizations to turn around
and fire somebody, you know, fifteen games a quarter into

(14:45):
the season, right unless there is a proper context that
is being laid out for our understanding as to why
this happened, right, And you know, back in the day,
if it was something like this that happened, it's because
and it was probably gonna get released, like some news
reporter probably has the goods on this, and the organization
found a way to keep him from actually leaking it

(15:07):
out before the you know, before they actually you know,
take their necessary actions and things of that nature, and
you find out there's a large scandal happening and things
of that nature. I'm like going back, you know, talking
about like you know, Cartly, Simo and Spree well and
you know other you know, entanglements that have happened, you know,
with head with notable head coaches, right or coaches that
have had the respect whether it be the organization and

(15:30):
the players, and then some type of disconnect or something
happens and it changes the whole scope of this and
or the perception of what we think about what I
think about this situation that happened here where I I
feel like, Okay, if you're going to fire Willie Green,
is because the team can neither defend or the team
cannot score, right, They can't do either well. Right. But

(15:53):
to what you're saying, I think a lot of that
is focused on when you're roster is constructed with only
the type of players that can do either or of
those things. Now you're asking a head coach to take
the other necessary players and make them into things that
they may not have been selected signed on for traded

(16:15):
in for whatever the case may be, and you're asking
them to do it, not just in an off season.
You're asking them to do it somewhere mid ten five five,
ten games into the season, you know what I'm saying,
after recognizing that you're not working with the actual roster
that you were supposed to have when you started in
training camp. You know what I'm saying. And at times
I just don't understand how the organization thinks that now

(16:38):
by firing the head coach, that there's suddenly gonna be
this you know, oh, come to Jesus moment by the players,
that they're gonna suddenly get better or look competitive. In
other words, by doing it, the reflection is now back
on you as the organization because to your point in
what you said earlier, sure saw sew you guys can't

(17:00):
seem to get your ish together. You see what I'm saying.
And I think that, to me is the sad part
about it. If people were expecting Willy Green to tie
his career on the wagons of a Zion Williamson, I
don't think he would have taken that job. There's no
way he would have taken that job because anything and
everything that we question about Zion Williamson, we never question

(17:20):
about Willy Green. So that's the thing that to me,
it just galls me when I see that they make
a play like this or they do something like this,
and we don't have context as to what transpired with
regards to why we think now firing Willy Green at
this moment in time will be better for the organization,
better for the team, and better for the fans as

(17:42):
far as what the Pelicans are expected to look like
from now until whatever the next decision is made or
to the end of the regular season.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, I got to say something too real quick. You know,
when it comes to this the governorship, it's been well
outed that that the governorship the Benson's people, well they're
not They're not amazing. I think they owned the they
owned the Saints in the NFL as well to end
the Pelicans, and both those organizations are known for, I
don't know, cutting corners when it comes to the medical staff,

(18:11):
and just maybe a little bit less than in terms
of the overall facilities and things are just not are
just not right from the truly from the top all
the way down. And now with the new you know,
uh executive leadership team in terms of basketball operations and
decisions that they've made. It just doesn't smell right for
me at all. Now again where I'm not at least

(18:31):
I'm not saying that Will Greeen didn't deserve and that's
says to be let go. And maybe this is like
you know, almost like shawsh ack redemption from him. He's
called through the ship to kind of get to the
side like, hey, maybe he's free. He disabused of this
really really really rough organization and all the trouble that
has come along with it. But really, if they think
if they were looking at themselves, looking through the roster
that they've built, the way that players cannot stay healthy,

(18:55):
I wouldn't have been opposed to them, not just sarily
having a fire sale, but looking had exhausting other options,
right and then maybe be able and I would say
keep Willy Green the choice, per see. But it's like,
know what we're going to go in a different direction,
direction Will the Green. We're gonna trade herb Jones, and
they see what we can get for trade Murphy maybe
even Zion right and ultimately try to go just a
completely different direction. And do you want to be on here?

(19:17):
For the rebuilt or not. I think in some ways
that might have made at least me would have been
more palatable. But I understand how this business works, and
that again, when you're bottom third and literally almost everything
that matters, something, something has to change, and unfortunately ended
up being Willie Green. And I'm gonna kind of like
switch gears real quick right now, because Forrego, I don't

(19:39):
think he's showing throwing shots at Willy Green in his
introductory press conference or at the practice at first practice
if you will them as head coach. But listen to
the clip. It's about a minute long cl and I
want to kind of get your your thoughts on what
James Brego said. See if you pick up on some
of the things I did as well.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
Are we That's what we have to identify. And it's
not gonna happen overnight tomorrow night. It's gonna be some
magic wand I wait and we have this magic identity.
It's going to take. It's a process, it's stay by day,
it's our habit work, how we communicate, how we work
on the floor. Obviously it starts with me and giving
clarity and direction on players' roles. I have met with players.

(20:14):
I don't have all the answers for them right now,
but I tried to share as much as I can
with them where they stand, where I'm at, and how
I see this team moving forward.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Where community that you want this team that well.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
I think it's an identity that really resembles our community.
You know, it's resilient, it's tough, it has pride, it's aggressive,
and I think identity wise, it starts there just an
overall physical, aggressive group that plays with force, that plays together.
I'm a big believer in playing together, sharing the ball,

(20:47):
moving the ball. You know, last time I was in
the seat, my team let the NBA and assists. I
believe in trusting it, sharing it. I grew up under
the San Antonio Spurs, where people moved the ball, shared
the ball, and trusted it.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
So let you right now. I'll let you know right now,
the Pelicans are thirtieth out of thirty teams it assists.
So it says to me that Barrego doesn't feel like
this team knows how to share the basketball. But they
also don't have relevant play creators as well too, So
I don't know if that's a shot at Willy Green

(21:19):
or shot at the overall culture of this team or
just his overall impressions and saying, you know what, I
can come here and do this better. Your thoughts on
Barrego's comments.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
The first thing that really jumped out of me was
him saying, what's our identity? What do you mean? What
do you mean? What's our identity? So, in other words,
the whole time that Willy Green was the head coach
and you were the assistant head coach, you didn't get
inside Willy Green's ear to identify the fact that this
team didn't have an identity. I thought that you would
already knew that and you were on board with it.

(21:53):
You know what I'm saying, Like, to me, that's the
last thing I think I would want to be saying
out loud. Regardless if you're strug as a basketball team,
it's questioning your heart and questioning who you are, if
you're questioning the talent and the roster, and it's your
responsibility to coach him up. Okay, you can speak to
those particular things, but to say, well, we need to

(22:14):
know who we are, you should have known that. That's
why you're the assistant head coach. Just as the same
as Willy Green was the head coach. Then he starts
talking about saying, oh, well, you know, we need to
be bit we need to be aggressive, we need to
be physical. Hell man, you've never bothered watching Willy Green
when he used to play for this, For the teams
that he played for, he didn't have to be a
stupid star. He among one of those guards were one

(22:35):
of the more physical two way players that played in
our generation. He believed in that, and he wanted that
for all of his guys, even skinny little brandon Ingram.
He wanted him to bow up on guys and not
play scared. You know what I'm saying. So again, I
understand that it's a quote unquote camera speak how he's

(22:57):
laying these type of things out, but if he really
listened to how he sounded, he sounded exactly like Willie
Green when he first came on as a New Orleans Pelican.
The problem is is that the players that he has
and the roster that's been constructed don't exhibit those same
factors and traits that you're saying these guys don't don't have.

(23:17):
And what's ironic is you've had these guys now for
overall two three years, you know what I'm saying, minus
Jordan Poole, who is completely the opposite of everything that
you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
So you know, again, I'm not here to nitpick on
that part of it. I think the part that disturbs
me more than anything about what James Brego was saying
is the fact that he's addressing the very things that
we already know are the struggles for the Pelicans. I
think the thing that came into play here is what
is it that you're gonna do differently that Willy Green
couldn't obviously get out of these guys when this season

(23:51):
is started, and I don't know.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Saying that he's like, I don't have it all figured
out you because again it's like literally day two, I
think when that interview take place of the firing, and
now he's like, hey, I'm thrust into the seats. So
I don't think he was praying on Willie Green's job.
So now he's gotta go ahere and try to figure out.
But I'm not saying he was doing To your point,
I think there is some things there that seems like
there's a disconnect because when you come in there, you're

(24:15):
talking about having to re establish an identity and figure
out your culture as a roster and an organization when
you've already been there. It's not like you came in
from the outside, so you've been on the bench this
entire time. That to me, that's why this doesn't smell
like this is gonna automatically turn around. Maybe you'll throw
a couple more minutes to Derek, to Derek Queen or
wherever the case would be, maybe Fears will play more
or whatever, and then he'll get de Jean say Murray

(24:36):
to come back in January or February. I don't think
those were the elexurs per se. But to me, I
just I didn't. I don't love the way this is starting.
And I respect record. I think he's a good coach.
It's a guy who's been uh he's been sought after
here in the last couple of years a well too
for the various opportunities, So I think his coaching actimen
is on point. But I think this was an interesting
start to the post with the Green era in New Orleans.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
If if saw if this was Doc Rivers right coming
out from the outside circle to take over Adrian Griffin's job,
and he's saying what he's saying, I would not have
any problem with it, you know what I'm saying, because
Doc Rivers wasn't involved in the machinations about how this
team needed to be handled and constructed or whatever it came.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Doc Rivers was a consultant for the Bucks.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
He would Yeah, he was a consultant, but he wasn't directly,
he wasn't among the assistant head coaches. What I'm saying
is is that he isn't a part of the inner
circle like Berego is. What I'm illustrating is is that
when you make those type of comments, you are directly
saying well, as much as I like Willie Green, it's
obvious that he didn't have an identity for this team. Well,

(25:48):
but you're you're part of that team. You're part of
that part of the circle. And I and again I'm
just sitting I'm speaking to that to use that and
highlight us as saying, if somebody from the outside is
making those particular comments from what they've seen, whether you're
a consultant or you're someone that's part of the executive level,
but you're not there in the intimate details the planning

(26:09):
and everything like that, working with that roster, working with
these guys. He's there. So that's the reason why I'm
speaking more to He could have chosen, he could have
selected better word choice in how he's a directing that
without airing it out as to say, well, yeah, I
can't tell you what it was going on with with
with with Willie Green and why this isn't trans but
this is what I'm saying, is what's happening and you were.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
There, yeah, what with doz of percent? So before I
move on, I think Alverado's name is being mentioned in
trade rumors right.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Now and they're doing more trading than really getting, you know,
getting like Alvarado would be the last person that I'm
thinking about trying to move right now. If you want
to move something, move guys who clearly don't fit quote
unquote the identity of what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
Well, and we'll figure out who that is, I think
in short order. But Murphy, Jones, Almarado, all those guys
have interest, you know, around the league. I don't think
cidik Bay has much value right now. You're trying to
rebuild his value there, you know, he's MESSI not looking
good in his second year right now. But maybe that's
what the Green's fault for all they know, Jordan Hawkins
been buried on the bench. You know, he's a guy

(27:15):
who could definitely fill it up, but you just fill
into what the Greens dog houses here, it seemed like.
So there's a lot that can happen. And as you know,
we talk about these other teams here, trading is going
to be probably the the next biggest conversation that happens
with all of them, like, hey, who can we move?
What is a time to reset? So I think this
is just kind of the impetus of the conversation in
thew orldands they change the coach. I think roster moves

(27:38):
ultimately need to happen here for this team to actually
make a step forward.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
So I'm gonna tell you this right now. We can
move on to our next team that we're going to discuss.
This is not going to change until there is a
clear distinction about is leading this team on the basketball court,
and it can't be Zion Williams. I'm saying that so
that you know there's no misconceptions. You may not feel

(28:02):
that way, and I'm sure that there are a lot
of people who love Zion Williamson too think I'm an
idiot for saying it. But I'm telling you right now
of all of the mess up, all the messed up
transactions that the Pelicans have had, and they've and they've
been notorious now now we're going on two decades, have
been notorious for screwing up certain plays and moves and things,

(28:22):
sometimes their fault, sometimes not their fault. I'm telling you
right now, you're holding on to a player who I
don't think will ever match. What you're looking for is
not your elixir. I think you are best suited to
move on from him. Get what you can start from zero.
You got some really good young pieces that I think

(28:42):
you can work with that They don't have Zion freak
athlete whatever, but they could probably go out there and compete.
They can go out there and score. They can give
you something of what you can build on. I don't
think you can build anymore with this idea of hoping
and praying as Zion Williamson will be where you think
he's gonna be in the next you know, even for
this year. Move on from him, because that, to me

(29:04):
is what's holding I'm gonna tell you this right now.
This is what's gonna hold Barrego back if he has to,
if he has to rest his lawrels on the hope
that he's gonna turn things around for Zion Williams in
Oh My, get ready, get ready for another show that
we're gonna.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
The biggest thing here is not even just the locker
room thing, is like turn things around for Zion Williams.
And is him playing games. I mean just playing being
on the floor. So when he's there, fine, he's productive,
it works, it's great for the most part. I mean
statistically he doesn't always result the wins, but he gives
him a better chance to win when he's out there.
He's just not there, and Barrego can't fix that. Like
that has nothing to do with Rego, had nothing to

(29:38):
do with the Green either, But went to your point,
to your point, and we gotta we gotta move on
to your point. They do absolutely move on with Zion
Williams and I one thousand percent of.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Games because they're not gonna get there. They're not gonna
get their assists, they're not gonna they're not gonna move
up on the chain. If they're still settling on their superstar. Okay, Like,
let's go ahead and let's move forward to the LA Clippers.
And I think you believe in the idea here that

(30:07):
what we're talking about with the struggles with the LA
Clippers is more of because the stars are not available.
It has put Tyron lou in quote unquote a tenable
position because again he has to make magic happen with
the roster that he has. However, the roster that he

(30:29):
has is never consistently healthy enough to be competitive on
the court. So the question becomes are the Clippers too
old or too slow? And look, we both said the
Tyrone low is a great coach, but there's really nothing
that you can do when guys are not available on
the basketball court. And if you built your offense, you've

(30:53):
built your team around those star players, around the availability
of those star players and not available and you leave
yourself to chance to go through the struggles that the
LA Clippers are currently going to.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
I think Tyleru, Willie Green, and the Ghosts, if Willip
Taylor Jenkins in Memphis, they could all have a powwow
when it taught when it comes to you know, they're
having the availability of their players of the last x
amount of years, and I think Lou has already expressed
this frustration. We're dealing with Kawhi back in the day
PG et cetera, et cetera. But now this team went

(31:29):
went in a certain direction. They wanted to be experienced.
They are extremely veteran. They're the oldest team in the NBA,
and it's absolutely showing him the beginning of the season,
the way they open the year getting their doors absolutely
blown the f off by the Utah Jazz. The Utah
Jazz of all teams, blew them out by four. I
was like, what is happening? Game one? I mean, but
it's not like a matter of rest back to back.

(31:50):
It was the first night of the season. You got
your doors blown off by the Utah Jazz. I just
I don't know, man. This Clippers, Clippers organization is one
that you wont believe. The roster moves seemed to make sense,
you know what I mean, with all the veteran guys.
But we have been talking about Bradley Bill's not done
for the year, done done, He's out of there. It's
a rap. So all that machinations, they move North Paul

(32:11):
out of there, only for Bible to come there and
last like six games. This is it is. It's apocalyptic, Lou,
while a good coach is also now again facing the
hot seat. I think as you alluded to, but they
are bad. They are. And the one thing I said
is that their defense, we knew it was gonna slip some.
They were top five last year. They're like twenty second

(32:33):
right now. And that's it's that that that type of
slipp it has you in the conversations that they're in
right now where they're completely struggling and they don't look
like there's really much sign of hope. But Kawhi should
be back, maybe that will turn things around. There were
four and eight as we record. You know, Harden is

(32:53):
off of you know, ridiculous triple double and a crazy
overtime game, et cetera. You feel like there's just like
there's just too much veteran in leadership and competence for
it to be this bad. But right now, I don't know.
While my eyebrow was definite raised on the Clippers.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
So the one thing I'm gonna say about this Shaw
is this highlights the generation gap of how teams prepare
for the marathon that is the NBA season. Okay. I
think maybe a couple of years ago, if we had

(33:27):
talked about, oh, you know, the Utah Jazz blew the
breaks off of the Los Angeles Clippers, that we'd been like, wow,
you know, this is a great day for the Utah Jazz.
We might actually see some talent on that roster. And
then if we're talking about the LA Clippers, it'll be like, yeah,
you know, hey, man, it's game one. They're not worried
about it. You know what I'm saying. They got another

(33:48):
eighty one games left to go. They'll figure it out,
they'll turn it around. But look at how we're talking
about what has happened to this LA Clippers team playing
against a team like the Utah Jazz and then getting
blown out by forty points. Because I think for most
of those veterans, right, they still are in that that's
just game one, man, We'll get this turnaround, We'll figure

(34:09):
this out. And you keep saying that. Then next thing
you know, we're already at NBA All Star weekend, right,
and now we're more than halfway into the season and
you're still hovering around at seven to eight seed, maybe
a game or two behind to get into the play
in you know what I'm saying, And so now you
start beginning into wonder, so when do I have that
on switch? When can I just flick this on. I've

(34:30):
been playing in this league for some ten, fifteen, twenty years,
right or however long. I know that there's a switch
that we can kick into gear and get ourselves on track,
and all we got to do is be hot at
the right time when the playoffs happen. But then you
start thinking about on some of these games that you
wind up losing to. You start realizing that some of
those teams that are younger than you shaw actually are

(34:51):
hanging around and are winning relevant basketball games and are
actually rubbing shoulders up against you in the standings and
making things very interesting. When all the while your expectation
is I flipped that switch and suddenly I'm a four
seed in the Western Conference. It's just not like that anymore, man,
And I think that's the stark reality of it. And
it goes back to something that I think we're going

(35:13):
to talk about with regards to Willie Green. That might
be a bigger question. When you don't have your star players,
what are you doing for those next man up? Guys?
Have they elevated themselves to no longer just be guys
you bring in, you know, five seven, ten minute patches.
Are they people who actually should have meaningful minutes as
part of the roster or do they get suppressed again

(35:34):
the minute that your superstar comes back. And that's a
hard decision to make because if you don't, if you
take minutes away from a guy who's not reliable because
you have to so believe in that superstar getting in there,
you get questioned for that because you decided to pull
that guy when he could have been meaningful for you
during those important stretches of games. And so now I
think this is what's going to put him on the

(35:55):
hot seat because of it.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Hey, the Clippers wanted to be led by Kawhi, you know,
James Harden, you know, being the number two, and they
kind of doing it by committee. Zubac still playing pretty
well this season, averaging a double double again. I think
we're gonna see that for the rest of his career,
or for at least for the foreseeable future. But to me,
it's just the way that because they are so slow
and they are older, they don't have the ability to

(36:18):
defend in the same way, and that's where they're really
losing a lot of these basketball games. And I misspoke.
I think the Jazz were up as by as many
as forty and the Clippers close the gap if you will,
you know, to end up losing by like a little
over twenty. It's not the other way. For some reason.
They've played the Suns three times already and they're they're
one and two against the Phoenix Suns who are surprising

(36:38):
him the good which is a conversation for another show.
But Chris Paul, I mean getting some d n p
CP d n CPS if you will from lou right now.
Two points game and like like what twelve minutes when you.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Bet and and again that's what I'm saying. It's highlighting
certain moves and and the way you going about deploying
and utilizing your roster that I think is going to
resonate with whether or not leadership is going to say
we're going to have to go into a different direction.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah, and this is not a team that's going to
be able to do a lot with you know, any
of the main guys on this roster. Kawhi Leonard, thirty
four years old, Yes, all the accolades that he has,
but who to be trading for that? Like who, who's
who's going to take a risk with that? With Uncle
Dennis looming in the background and this spire or not,
like who would be going for that? Like nobody? So

(37:30):
the Clippers are kind of lying locked into this roster,
I think for right now and all the teams that
we're going to talk about, and maybe we could shave
this point to the end. But I feel like maybe
there's some hope and you know, maybe we're you know,
just it's twelve games in and it doesn't look good
and kawhis over played six or the twelve, So maybe
there's hope there. But it's not amazing right now for

(37:51):
the early Clippers, and they have a lot of ground
to make up here in a very loaded Western Conference.
But they got to get their defense together, like they
absolutely got their defense together, and figure out ways and
necessars to get easier shots offensively as well too, because
right now they're they're in the twentieth right with your
twenty second in offensive rating, Like this is nothing, nothing,
what anybody signed up for a Clipper that.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
But I think I think we've said this so many
times before. Shaw right, Like, offense can make you look
so young, defense can make you look so old. Okay,
And they're not gonna get any They're not gonna get any.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Younger offensive defensive rating.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
But they're not gonna get any younger defensively, you know
what I'm saying. Not unless you decide to replace the
players who are giving you all of that offense with
guys who are gonna be able to catch to stay
with the younger guys that are generating that offense from
the opposing teams, you know what I'm saying. So there
has to be a collective effort by this by this
Clippers team to play better defensive basketball. But you're asking

(38:49):
them to do that with another sixty something, you know,
sixty five games left to play, Like I you know again,
that's that's tough sledding. And I'm telling you right now,
it just feels like they think that they have an
on switch once they get everybody together, that they can
flip it and it can suddenly make them a better
team defensively. They suddenly become this competitive team that we

(39:11):
keep talking about during the middle of the year. Oh
Lo'll watch out for the Clippers. They're the most dangerous team.
Don't think anybody ever questions when those guys are on
that they will be the most dangerous team. But I
think we're questioning is it sustainable and can they stay
healthy enough for them to be able to show that
when it matters the most, And we've seen that's not
been the case for the Clippers.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
It is not so, you know, shout out to the
Lst Slippers man, we're rooting for you. I guess you know,
we don't.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Well I know who won't be rooting for him, and
he's coming next week. He's coming next week to put
an exclamation point on that, Well we will.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
We don't like to see our old veterans, you know,
kind of going down, kind of in kind of in
a blaze, right like you want to see them kind
of age gracefully has not happened in the way that
the Clippers would certainly be like right now. But we're
twelve games in, so maybe we're dumping the gun a
little bit. But there are some signs and with ex fact,
with the rumors now starting that Loo might be on
the hot seat, I thought it was worth bringing up

(40:02):
here today. But there's still time for the Clippers to
turn turn things around.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
It'd be interesting if they did fire Tyron Lou though,
because I feel like, again, with this Clippers team, your
best option you have available to coach through a lot
of this is gonna be him. So if you're entertaining
the idea of getting rid of him, wherever that or
whenever that might be, I mean, if you if you
want to, if you want to sabotage whatever you've been

(40:26):
trying to do, especially you know, moving into that new
arena and everything like that, hey have ad it, but
I would not I would not suggest doing such a
doing such a thing at this particular moment in time.
Ride or die with Tyron Lou through this and then if,
obviously you see that this team does not even look
like a team that can be competitive by the time
that the season ends, you know what I'm saying, I
think they're gonna be a playoff team. I think they'll

(40:47):
be in the playoffs or play in playoffs, whatever the
case may be. But to get rid of Tyron Lou
because of what we've been saying, is been, you know,
the elephant in a room with this Clippers team already.
Let's just say I'd find it amusing your tune to
the baseline Cali warr'ts y'all discussing the hot button topics

(41:09):
on the NBA. Coming up, we got two more teams
to drop on our uh uh our conversations with their
struggles in the Western Conference. Don't miss it here on
the baseline, we are back Cali warrants y'all basedline NBA

(41:35):
podcasts and our conversations of teams that are struggling in
the Western Conference, teams that over the last couple of
years have been relevant in the Western Conference playoff picture.
And so the next team that we're gonna discuss is
gonna be the Sacramento Kings. And ironically enough, you know,
we had said this in our preview that the Sacramento Kings,
I you know a AKA Western ch the West, the

(41:58):
Sacramento Bulls. Right, we knew that this was probably going
to be a disaster waiting to happen, right because it
just didn't click right with what Levine de Rosan were
giving you in Chicago to translate it over to Sacramento

(42:19):
because you're pairing them up with Demanta Sabonis. I think
the bigger question wasn't gonna be who would be compromised
between de Rosan and Levine. It's what would this do
to Demanta Sabonis and and the kind of player that
he has been for the Sacramento Kings over the last
couple of years. Will this enhance accentuate his actual skill set,

(42:39):
the kind of multitudel player that he is, or will
it diminish it because of the fact that the ball
has to go to the other players that you went
and gave up assets and did all of this nonsense
to put this team together for and except essentially you
just basically usurped the potential of what you had when
you had Fox into Sabonis. Now with Sabonis, you don't

(43:00):
even know what you have and his team is struggling to.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
I think getting the nail on the head right there.
Sabonis is kind of trying to do what he usually does,
but doesn't have the same faculties in essence to do
it because of the rosters is so much different. And
DeRozan and Levine just they need the ball and has
to be successful. While Fox obviously did two, Fox allow
Sabonis to facilitate even more than he did, right and

(43:26):
Levin and DeRozan do a lot of kind of one
on one and isolation type stuff. So it's not really
working out in the same way. Si Bonus is still
figuring out a way to get I think it's like,
you know, roughly, no, oh my god, his assister do
to three point six this year. That is crazy. That
is crazy. I'm sorry, I'm actually.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Like, but he's not. He's not laughing at that. He's
he's like shot, Like that's his shock face.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
I'm processing it in real time. And while Sabonas is
struggling with his own injury concerns as it is, there's
also limitation to who he is in terms of a
ceiling a razor for an organization. So you throw just
kind of ball hungry, needy type guys into this mix
with the guy who's who needs to play in a
very very particular type of way, and you get the

(44:13):
three and ten start the bottom third again, same thing
we're talking about abase things. They're all in the bottom
third of every major statistical category. The King's the one
thing they do. They do play fast. They play the
fifth highest pace right now. But I don't know what
the Kings are going to ultimately need to do here.
Lavigne's efficiency is still there, it's not resulting in winning.

(44:34):
He's shooting twenty four game, getting twenty four games, shooting
forty two percent from the three point lineety one percent
from the floor, counting SATs look amazing, but they're not winning.
And at the end of the day, I think this
King's team does really need to look at what it
means to maybe reset and start to sell off some
of these assets. And they're not building around anybody. I
was listening to another podcast and I was like, damn,

(44:56):
this is a thousand percent correct. Who on this roster
are you like, Yes, that's a guy, And I know
Keithan Murray hasn't come back and hasn't played yet as
well too, But who are you building around everyone? Like
everyone on this team should be. I think I'd pick
up the phone call and say, hey, well, let me
know what you're thinking. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Was it a few years ago that we were we
were talking about the potential of DeVonta Sabonus and and
and and the way that he his game is set
up to be an MVP level kind of type player.
I'm not saying that he ever had like MVP numbers,
but what he can give you in points, assists, and
rebounds statistically, in and of itself, could have put him

(45:34):
easily into conversation had he's still been playing next to
the Aaron Fox and still had Mike Brown possibly as
his head coach. And suddenly all of that has gone away.
All of that is is gone away, and a lot
of it is because of the kind of players that
he's playing around, right, And you can clearly tell that
while their fifth in in in pace, all of that

(45:55):
frenetic pace means nothing because they're ineffective shooting the basketball. Right.
They're among the worst, I believe like as far as
offensive efficiency goes. And it's not so much the fact
that my problem is saying, Okay, are we saying that
Zach Lavine sucks or DeMar DeRozan sucks.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
No.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
I think what we're saying, though, is is that for
how those two guys have been playing basketball in the
NBA for as long as they've been playing, you're now
asking them to play next to someone who played a
certain kind of way, And in essence, it's either they
come down a level with their mindset and their way
of scoring, or they figure out a way to elevate

(46:38):
the person that they are playing next to. And it's
just tough, man, It just really is. And it's sad
because I think the one thing that stands out with
all of these guys, and you had basically just said
that in a moment ago Shaw, who are you building
around right, like in winning moments, who is actually getting

(46:59):
that basketball right? I just feel like these are quality
players that can get you to a certain level, but
when it's called upon to take over a game, to
you know, elevate the team to another level, You're not
going to see that in any of these guys. And
it's not so much the fact that there's not a

(47:20):
potential there. I just think that the situations and the
way that this team is structured and the way that
this team plays, neither one of them are going to
get that opportunity to do it. And it's unfortunate because again,
this is the same Sacramento Kings team that was just
in the play ins last year. It's the same Sacramento
Kings team that was in the playoffs a couple of
years ago, and it's now again we're back on that

(47:41):
trend where the Kings are slowly but surely falling off
the grid.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Well, same team in name not the same team in roster.
You know, Levine and the Rosen we're not here. And
the other thing about the Subono situation is that they've
added high ball handling point guards. In some ways, we're
also a little bit and a fishing and then a
Shreoter and Russell Westbrook. Those guys are playing, you know,
big minutes for this King's team, almost thirty a nine
for each of them. So that's also cutting into Sabonus's

(48:08):
ability to be effective as a playmaker as well. This
King's roster does not fit. We all saw that going
in and knew that, but didn't think it's going to
be this bad. I think we're headed towards some semblance
of or maybe not so much a fire sale, but
a sale of some sort, you know what I mean.
It's going to be some sort of liquidation. It's like,
all right, you know what, we got to get some

(48:30):
things out of here and try to reset the table.
But again, who is who is the building block here?

Speaker 1 (48:35):
And it means you do that show Even if you
do that, who moves who would you move first? Right?

Speaker 2 (48:42):
I think Sabonus probably gets you the most because I
think the book is out on Levine right now in
terms of like, great guy, but at that number as
well too, re memory it's going to be forty seven
I think it is or something like that for the
next two years. That's a lot for somebody. While a
fishing is not producing winning, winning basketball for whatever the reason.
DeRozan has a large cachet, but he's thirty six years old,

(49:04):
so you're not gonna get a lot of valuable assets
for them. I think the bonus at twenty nine and
the guy that he is a multiple time All Star.
Maybe you can fetch and convince somebody to say, you
know what, this makes sense for us here. I don't
know who that team is. Maybe as Charlotte, you know
they maybe they do that, you know, to get a
power forward, a play Creaen guy to take some pressure
off LaMelo, build around Brandon Miller as well to when

(49:24):
he comes back. Kunkannopole looks pretty good right now too.
So I don't know. I'm just throwing a team out
there that comes to mind, but yeah, I think the
bonus is the guy or or your guy. Maybe you
do selve the parts of Keegan Murray and see if
somebody's willing to see Hey, no, what he hasn't really
popped in the way that we thought he was supposed
to Sacramento. But he's got the builder his value back
coming off of injury. But those are the two guys

(49:46):
I think can get them something of value, or the
Levigne and De Rozan. Sure, maybe somebody will take a
flyer on them, but you're not going to do anything
to really reset your table if you're sacrament.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
I want to believe in demon demonte Sabonis and his
fit with the Sacramento Kings. If he believes that he
can make a difference and be that guy, then I
think you you're If you're the Kings, you do what
you need to do to move De Rosen and you
move Levine. I think there's something possibly there with Westbrook
and Sibonis. I think you can at least get something

(50:17):
there maybe for the next year or so, and while
you're retooling, really focus in and hone in on getting
the next three or four years. You know of what
Sabonis could have potentially been since he's been a Sacramento King,
You know what I'm saying. What they were trying to
do with the with the Rariface, I don't think it's
it's too late for that. But if if the Monta
Sabonus is checked out, if the organization itself has checked

(50:39):
out on whatever their intentions are, then I would agree
with you. You're gonna get the most the most bang
for your buck moving Sabonis at this particular junction. Then
to your point, that means the next man up is
gonna be Keegan Murray. And because you cannot afford to
give away both of those guys, that's just not a
good look, because no matter what you do with the

(51:00):
Levigne and the Rosen, you're never gonna get the kind
of assets that are gonna pan out the same way
knowing that you gave up your two young future star
players after already players in d Aaron Fox, regardless of
what d'aron fox career looks like this point forward. So
it'll be interesting to see what the Sacramento Kings do.

(51:20):
I just hope that they figure things out and they
don't look as bad as how they've been looking recently.
Your Tune to the baseline Cali Warrenshaw discussing the hot
button topics of the NBA Final team. For us to discuss, Shaw,
it's going to be you guessed it Dallas Mavericks. And
I'm sure everybody has been talking about the firing of

(51:42):
Nico Harrison. They've been talking about all of the possible
fallout that has taking places that drove the decision to
do so, the vitriol, everything that goes into it. But
when you really just just even from that and of itself,
the Mavericks have just not looked a good basketball team,
and you know, firing him, I'm sure gives relief to

(52:06):
some people, but it ain't gonna relieve the stench of
how bad this team basically looks on the basketball court.
And then you couple that with another injury to Ad,
you know, you couple that with the struggles that this
team has had. You know, Cooper flag has obviously been
you know, he doesn't reflect that of the excitement of
him being the number one selected player in the draft,

(52:29):
and so now it just just feels like it's just
all come off. We talk about the Dallas Mavericks.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
It's unfortunate, it really is, but maybe a couple months
too late or too early, depending on so I think
doing it now seems a little weird. While a lot
of people are not necessarily surprised, it happened. I think
the timing is still like, oh well, if you didn't
fire him in the summer after the Luca trade, you
get Cooper flag, Well, then why not let it play out?

(52:58):
So this three and ten start because Ads now hurt
again because you shouldn't have Ad on your roster anyway.
But PG Washington missed time and Kyrie is obviously still
hurt as well too. So but for whatever reason, Jason
Kidd is unscathed and kind of all of this, which
is interesting. I don't believe that he deserves a lot
of blame, but there's just been some peculiar things that
have happened here. So I'm sure Nico thought landing Cooper

(53:19):
flag was there, like, yes, you know what I mean.
I told y'all'll look and look now you know we're
going to be heading towards her in the positive direction.
But this start has been awful. Their last and offensive rating.
They're somehow still in the top five in defense. So
credit to Jason Kidd for getting into play defense, you know,
to some degree. But I think the decision to put
Cooper at the point guard, in addition to Ad being out

(53:41):
for the majority part of the season, so far this
year has really just kind of like cooked Nico Harrison's
proverbial goose. Then then the Coupda grags this happened while
I was out. His firing gets announced basically like two
hours before it actually happens, so like he's just like, oh,
I guess I'm going to get fired today because shiit
makes the news. I'd feel like the maps that everything

(54:02):
they could to try to embarrass him is on the
way out. That then you get a letter from from
the governor of the team, you know, and he's more
or less talking about, yeah, we made mistakes whatever whatever
the case may be, and more or less pandering to
the fan base that is upset about the firing. I'm

(54:22):
never I don't think I can't recall an open letter
to the fans based on a general manager's decision before
because ticket sales are down on Dallas as well too,
like everything is going awry. This mavericked team is disarray.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Well, okay, so a couple of things on that part.
First of all, you knew that was coming because you
shouldn't have been jacking up the prices after you went
ahead and traded You're.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
You're you know what, I'm saying, you're I was ambitious.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Okay, No, but that's that's I'm gonna call it a
buck right, that's Dallas, Okay. That's how they do. That's
how they are, you know what I'm saying. And if
they were winning, they wouldn't care. They would be celebrating
and dancing industry. They don't give it. They don't care. Right,
it's money, it's whatever, it's the optics, it's you gave
away the guy that I want to come see play

(55:11):
and you're still gonna charge me a ton of money.
I give them credit that they actually took that to
heart and they actually took it in action and making
sure that they didn't come out to support the Mavericks
the same way. So I don't know if if if
if the owner is Patrick Dumont, I believe you said.
I don't believe the owner, you know, is a quote
unquote genuine in his you know, apology, so to speak,

(55:35):
as him recognizing that he is just trying to save
face for all of the miscalculated moves that have taken place.
I'm gonna go to something Shaw that I feel is
again we're in a different space because we've seen it's
this is nothing new to us when we see a
superstar player getting moved. I think the magnitude and the
and and the idea behind it because there was very
little context. Again, context matters or else. If people really understood,

(56:00):
then they wouldn't be like, why would you be surprised
that it was or wasn't going to happen? If I'm
a player and I've been acting a certain kind of way,
doing certain kind of things that makes things very questionable,
I don't think I would ever be surprised that I'm
gonna eventually get moved. If the ownership realizes that in
the long term it's going to be detrimental, it's gonna
be something that they'll never be able to regain or

(56:20):
recover from unless they make and make it take action
now right. The biggest pet feed that we said regarding
Nico Harrison was what he got in return for moving
Luka Donkas, and we said, there is no way you
make that move unless you're getting a boatload of picks,
because it can't be just on ad Nowhere in eighty's

(56:40):
career has it ever been said that he would match
what you were going to get from a Luka Donkas
and what Luka Donkins had already built in his resume
with the Dallas Mavericks. So that end of itself is
what I think hurt Nico Harrison more than anything. That's
just me, But I think, well.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Let me jump in from this lens world too. So
we live in a social media air era, and this
trade was covered literally by even people outside of the NBA.
That's how seismic it was. So not to relitigate the
trade itself on its basis and merits, I think what
you said like just does need to be highlighted slightly

(57:18):
because even now you didn't get the super haul, right,
But then to watch Luca transform his body, which may
or may not happened if he would have stayed in Dallas, right,
but it's a transform his body and now looking like
a legitimate I mean, he's always looked like a legitimate
MVP candidate, but he's on another level this year, especially
because the body has changed. But then the other guy,
the other piece that people most people are like, well,

(57:41):
you should at least got Austin Reeves back in that trade.
To watch Austin Reeves going and plainly like a near
all star as well too, This like I think that's
just more wood on the fire of Nico Harrison, and
that to me, while egregious, it's it's just it's really
interesting how that narrative is also playing out as well too,
because it forces us to really to get the trade again, right,

(58:03):
even though it's like, yeah, we know we should have
got more, et cetera, et cetera. But when you watch
what the Lakers are doing with parts in essence that
Dallas had or should have potentially acquired in the trade,
and it makes it not much worse, I think for
Nico Harrison, and yeah, he's up, he's up out of here.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
So and then also the way that Nico Harrison handled
the situation right, like the response is how he like
none of it was none of it was good. And
and again, if you're going to fire him for those things,
I'm good with that. But again on the on the
basis of the trade itself, you know what, Luca fans,
you should be thanking Nico. You can, you can go

(58:38):
ahead and tweet him and thank you, because now that
put fuel and that man's fire for what you're seeing
right now currently playing for the Los Angeles Lakers. Because
I don't think that happens. If he still plays by
the Dallas Mavericks, Dallas fans would have been completely happy him.
You know what I'm saying, Uh, Dad, Bob, Bear Belly
and all out there playing the way that he is playing.

(58:58):
You know what I'm saying, gasing now when he comes
to the end of the season falling short of playing
at an MVP level, you know what I'm saying, and
not deciding to play defense when needed to play defense.
There's an accountability that superstars have, not just within themselves,
but even in the community. And that was his wake
up call, and I'm glad he took action for us
to be able to enjoy what we're currently seeing. And
I hope it's sustainable. This is the first year we're

(59:20):
seeing the new Donkets, so I don't know if this
is sustainable for the whole year. But if this is
how he's gonna be on he'll finally live up to
what we've been saying. He is potentially gonna be every
single year, which is an MVP candidate, and eventually he
will get over the hump and win a championship. Now,
with that being said, I just wanted to highlight one
last thing. Shaw about this whole situation regarding the struggle
with the match, because this is what this was about anyway.

(59:42):
It wasn't just about Nico Harrison. But I'm gonna go
back to him to a move that the Dallas Mavericks
made that And again, I'm not sitting here ready to
throw strays at the play. Please. I don't want that
perception being out there, but we're gonna make sure that
it's being highlighted objectively so that it's understood about what
we talk about the Mavericks. When the Mavericks went and
got Klay Thompson, and let's remember, Clay Thompson is fresh

(01:00:05):
off of being disrespected by the Golden State Warriors because
he believed that he should have been paid as much
money to play the level that he expected himself to
be going out and doing for the Dallas Mavericks. Shaw,
I think Klay Thompson would have been Klay Thompson had
he still been playing for the Golden State Warriors. Whatever
the motivation was that brought him to play for the

(01:00:27):
Dallas Mavericks, money whatever, I don't care what it is.
He is not playing to that level. He never has
been able to play that level. And it has forced
Jason Kidd to have to do things, use and manipulate
the roster to address a gap that was never a
problem prior to that point. If it was a matter
of talent, then you would have told me, go and

(01:00:48):
get someone more talented than that guy. Klay Thompson has
played at a level that is beneath the talent that
they had in that position when Jason kitt was coaching
that basketball team, and to me, that has started the
roller coaster ride of what we've been seeing now going
on since then, any move that they make, it has
not been a move that is elevated or made the

(01:01:10):
team better for it. And I'm not blaming Klay Thompson.
What I'm saying is this is what happens when you
have two dynamically different agendas now not aligned with the
reasons why you are coming on board to do what
is necessary for this Dallas Mavericks team to be thriving,
not just for the season let that pass, but also
for the season moving forward.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
I'm going to push back only slightly. I don't think
Clay's he hasn't tanked the value that they were getting,
but hey, I don't think he's risen it in the
way that the maps were expecting. I think at that
position as well too. He was supposed to be accelerant
to a team that went to the finals the year
before that. Right a, Hey, now he's going to be

(01:01:51):
out on the wing when Luca kicks out, when Kyrie
drives and kicks or whatever. Wow, what a what a
fine to be able to have that. Clay still shot
nearly forty percent from three last year. It just doesn't
feel like he shot thirty nine percent, just but it
just doesn't feel the same, Like the impact is so
much different, And I think to your point, it's just like, well,
it's not he hasn't had the ability to raise a

(01:02:13):
floor because he's not the same guy, especially on the
defensive side, which I think the matter. Ko Harrison knew,
you know, going kind of going into it. But again
you knew that, and so how are you going to
scheme to try to maybe appease some of that. I
don't know that they've done a good job in that regard,
but Clay's a proud guy and you know not to
you know, denigrate him. On his Hall of Fame career,

(01:02:34):
he still played seventy two games last year, and then
also had to deal with Luca getting traded in the
middle of the year as well too. So right now
it's looking real bad. It's looking real bad for him
this year. And I know the Pat Beverley podcast and
others are blaming his relationship with Make the Stallion and
whatever the hell else, Like, I'm not really into the
pop with any of that. Play doesn't have table setters

(01:02:57):
right now, and he's not effective at this stage of
his career. He's never been a guy who's gonna create
his own shot exactly. I'm not looking at Klay Thompson
to be able to do a whole lot here, especially
with Ad out. AD's not drawing double teams for you,
so we can't expect Clay to even look like how
we did last year.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Seaw, real quick, everything you just said, thank you, thank you,
thank you. Okay, because again I am not questioning what
Klay Thompson gives me offensively. I'm questioning what Klay Thompson
would be giving me defensively. And unfortunately Shaw, the position
that Lay Thompson is in, he is basically playing against
the SGA's, He's playing against the Anthony Edwards. He's playing

(01:03:38):
against arguably much younger two three guy swingman, and he
has to play those guys on a night and night
out basis. He doesn't rebound them like how he used
to back in the early days as a splash brother
splash brother. So if all you're doing is putting him
out there for space and reasons, that means that the
rest of that roster has to go out there and
pick up the slack on certain things. I'm not saying

(01:04:00):
that he is a you know what I'm saying he's
a dead leg or anything like that. What I'm saying
is is that the scheme and the way that the
Dallas Mavericks were set up, you knew if they were
going to be competitive, that your backcourt combination couldn't be Luka,
Donkic and Klay Thompson or just only Luka donkas Kyrie
Irving and Klay Thompson like there would have to be
some defensive elements in there that has to and it's

(01:04:23):
never lived up to that. Man, it's never lived up
to that, and they've never addressed it. They rolled the
dice on it, but they never properly addressed it. And
now it's come back to bite both the Mavericks, and
it's also come back to bite Klay Thompson.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
As well too. Who knows what the future for Clay
holds here. This Mavericks team, as many of the teams
have discussed, is now thinking about what their future is
in the short term as well as a long term,
where I've heard everything from Ady wants to go home
to Chicago to he would entertainer trade and sit down
with the management and the ownership group to kind of

(01:04:56):
figure out where they could potentially send him. God knows
the apocaly that would happen if they moved him out,
you know, and got back some sort of middling return there.
What's Kyrie's future injured or otherwise? Now, I think all
bets are on the table here, with the exception of
them trading Cooper flag. I think everything else is like, oh, well,
you know what, maybe we'ld look at it and entertain it.

(01:05:17):
But I don't think they need to necessarily, you know,
to to tease our next week episode. I don't if
they need to abandon ship on this roster completely. But
then there's going to be some things happening here in
Big d and it could be some big trays happening
for the Dallas.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Mavericks absolutely, man, looks so all we can hope for, though,
is that one, if not all, of these teams, in
some way, shape or form, can rise out of the
ashes and you know, get past this part of this phase.
But it doesn't look good for the Pelicans, it doesn't
look good for the Clippers, it doesn't look good for
the Kings, and it definitely does not look good for

(01:05:52):
the Dallas Mavericks. That we can only hope that they
come out of the other side of this with some
level of prosperity or some type of future to look
forward to. Great show altogether show you know, we listen, man,
we could have basically done a show on each and
every single one of these teams individual if we wanted to.
There's so much less left to unpack in regards to,
you know, what we've seen and what we know and

(01:06:14):
what we don't know with regards to those teams. But
I'm glad that we actually established, you know, a form
to be able to talk to you know, obviously four
teams that you know are going through it right now.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
They really are. The season is still young. Part of
Barrego's press conference too it's like, hey, there's still seventy
games left, right, so there's a lot of season. There's
more runway than there is you know, in front of
them than there is behind them, you know, for the season.
So everybody has an opportunity to do something different, and
doing something different doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to
become championship level teams, but finding out who they ultimately are,

(01:06:47):
picking a direction and establishing culture if you're you know,
in the in the words of Barrego and company, all
those things can still be establishing in the next you know,
sixty eight to seventy games, depending on you know what
team we're talking about. So, uh, SAP, Namental Clippers, you know,
the Pels and the MAVs, Like, we're rooting for y'all.
We again, we want to we want to talk good basketball,

(01:07:08):
but we had to kind of get into the nitty
gritty of what was happening. You know, what are your
respective organizations today, and uh, we'll see what the future
holds for you the rest of the NBA seas.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
It's just ironic that three of the teams that we're
talking about have issues that are not necessarily court related.
As much as it, it's it's surrounding the court in
and of itself. In one team, it really is a
talent issue. So it'll be interesting to see who addresses
what first, and and and and you know how quickly
things can be turned around for them h due to

(01:07:39):
course of the regular season. Once again, we'd like to
thank you and yours for jumping on with us, and
and you know we not definitely want to hear your
thoughts in comments, like you know, let us know, you
know if we're off on whereere our assessments are. And
we certainly want to get your perspective of what you
think needs to happen for these four teams that we're
talking about. But the baseline, Calie warren Shaw, we appreciate you, guys,

(01:08:00):
know we do. We'll catch up with you

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Ruthie's Table 4

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Western Conference Meltdown: 4 Teams In Trouble (Pelicans, Kings, Clippers, Mavericks)

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Ruthie's Table 4

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

Western Conference Meltdown: 4 Teams In Trouble (Pelicans, Kings, Clippers, Mavericks)

Stuff You Should Know