Steve Cobucci: Wolves at the Gate

Steve Cobucci from Wolves at the Gate talks about the band's new album, his top guilty pleasure artists, and much more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:14):
My god, ry.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Today we've got Steve from Wolves at the Gates super
excited to chat with you. Steve. I think it's been
like over three years for sure since we last chatted.
I think maybe the last time we chatted was when
Yulegi's came out. So here we are, like three years
later and now we're talking a little bit about the
new album. We're just super stoked for you to be
on but we'll obviously we'll dive all into the new album.

(00:52):
But before we get into that, how are you doing today, Steve?

Speaker 3 (00:54):
I'm doing I'm doing well. Yeah. As I said to
you before, no news is good news. Three years of yeah,
not not too many high highs and not too many
lo lows, just status quo, which I will not complain about.
So family's doing good, band's doing good. We're having fun
making music and it feels great to feel this youthful

(01:16):
about I guess creating music, even though our our birth
certificates don't say that we're youthful.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
So is what is youthful for Wolves at the Gate? Yeah?
Where are you guys at? On age? I see a
couple of gray hairs starting to pop up there, so
I'm curious.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Oh yeah, well that's I think I'm at seven to
twenty p right now, so if we were any higher definition,
you would see more than a few. I'm thirty eight,
I'll be turning thirty nine the summer. Ben will be forty.
He's going to be the first to crack the four
to zero.

Speaker 4 (01:49):
Oh man, I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
When did you first get a gray hair? Because I
just got my first, like real patches this year and
I'm thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
Two, So it really depends on like when you say
patches or gray hair? Are we talking lone single gray hair?

Speaker 4 (02:07):
Now we're talking like all right, I can like, not
only can I tell, but everyone else can tell.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, it's inevitable at this point. Yeah, I think turning back.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah, I think thirty five is when it was like,
oh yeah, ok, right, uh right here, same spot for
my dad, so it makes sense.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
And then in my mustache, yeah, oh.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah, it does seem like maybe generally that's where it
kind of starts, somewhere on the sides and facial ill too.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (02:40):
Do you feel do you feel the impending uh, the
impending age Cliff in the metalcore world.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
To be honest, I've always felt old in the scene,
not because I always was, but I think I just personally,
I think a lot of guys started playing in bands
when they were younger. And my first band was Wolves
when I was like twenty one or twenty two, Yeah,
you know, and I was already like getting like I

(03:10):
was finishing my junior year of college, you know, and
a lot of guys like they're cutting their teeth at
like fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, and then they're on tour. You know,
they're on tour by the time they're seventeen or eighteen.
And so by the time we were touring full time,
I was twenty two or twenty three years old, and
so a lot of these guys, I was like five

(03:31):
years older than and so we would talk about influences,
and they were influenced by the bands that are like
current and I was influenced by bands that have all
broken up or been in hiatus or whatever. So yeah,
we always felt like as a band, we we showed
up to the party a little too late. But that's
eye of the beholder.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
Well, I don't know, I've always felt regardless, you've always
had kind of at least you individually have always had
kind of a stoic kind of individuality and soft spokenness,
where maybe that lends itself a little bit too. I mean,
you're very thoughtful when you speak, you know what I mean.
So it's not like you're like going out there and
doing the old you know, touring antics maybe like the

(04:15):
fifteen year olds would have been.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, yeah, I guess. I guess I'm not nearly as
entertaining as most entertainers. And that's probably, uh, that's not
what I meant by it, but okay, well that's I mean,
that's how I I didn't think you were saying that,
but that's how I see it. I'm much more like, Yeah,
I guess I'm much more like the bands I was
influenced by. You know, I think we're probably I probably

(04:41):
just identified with their personalities more like one of my
favorite bands is Thrice, and I felt like I could
identify it with I see that their vocalists. Yeah, most
like personality wise, because like, I'm a weird hybrid of
introvert extrovert I think, although I could be either one
depending on the situation, but I'm just like trying to

(05:04):
do what probably fits the needs of like the group.
But at the end of the day. I think I
would rather kind of just like do my own.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Thing, makes sense, speaking of thrice your your speaking voice
sounds very similar.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
You are a lot like Dustin.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, something you've noticed.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
True.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
We both just eight nails, you know, and gravel for
cereal and just got this gravelly you know, voice kind
of look.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
Like, kind of got the same build, the same the
same facial hair and everything. You kind of look like
Dustin right now too.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yeah, I'm like the fiver Dustin kin Zaro.

Speaker 4 (05:40):
Yeah, but you're just like slightly more attractive, you know,
So it works out in your favor.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
Well, I appreciate that. I'll take I'll take one small
victory that has nothing to do with music.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Other than just being more attractive than your hero.

Speaker 4 (05:59):
Yeah, hey, that's that's always a good thing. Though.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
If I ever meet him, I'll tell them that there's
a few people that that this is how they feel.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
Yeah, you can tell him it was Mason.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
You could definitely tell tell Dustin, say specifically, Mason Menega
thinks you're less attractive than me. Just say that straight
up and Dustin will be like, oh, it's hard to believe.
Seventeen years now, Yeah, you guys have been together like it.
It's kind of I mean, I don't know, like, have

(06:30):
you thought about the fact that if wol Wolves at
the Gate was like a human being, it would be
able to drive right now?

Speaker 4 (06:36):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (06:37):
Yeah, that is I've never thought about it, you know,
in those terms, but that is really funny to think about.
Hopefully the band is at least as mature as a
seventeen year old at this point, that would be awesome.

Speaker 4 (06:49):
You know, according to the federal government and Citizens United.
I mean, you could technically vote too pretty soon.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
I think our band would abstain from voting exercise are right, Well.

Speaker 4 (07:04):
That's good. You're not one of them Christian bands then,
are you just joking?

Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, we're we're the most we're the most least political.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
If you're like, you're like amish metal core, No.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
Definitely not amish. No, Unfortunately.

Speaker 4 (07:25):
That's true except for this last election. I voted that.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
You're right, You're absolutely right on that.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yeah. Well, that's where we're different is I would say
I might not have said that in years past, but
presently that's that's probably where our band would have would
have landed. But I would be fine if Yeah, we
weren't really ever associated with politics. It's one of those
things where it's like I have strong opinions about politics,

(07:50):
but I don't ever want to be remembered or identified
as like a loud voice speaking in that world, you know,
just because as a Christian, it's like that's it's not
even really the kingdom that I want to see advance.
It's part of being a part of the kingdom, but
it's definitely just it's not who I am. And so
I didn't mean to.

Speaker 4 (08:11):
Do No, no, no, that makes total sense. Also, No,
you're absolutely right.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Also, that was a stream of consciousness talking forgetting that
I was actually out of pot.

Speaker 4 (08:18):
No, that was good. That's good. I think it makes
a lot of sense because never in the history of
politics as politics ever actually lined up with with religion
or Christianity or spirituality in general.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Well certainly not like one particular party exactly.

Speaker 4 (08:36):
That's what I mean, Like you can't fit that into
a box.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, No, one party is going to fully capture the gospel.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, and that's I think. What is you know, upsetting
for me is when people think it is or it
does to me. I see it as like worth these
are apples and oranges, Like why are we trying to
make them the same thing they're not. You know, be
invested in politics, care about your community, your society, try
to be a good citizen. But don't tie everything in
the stream of politics to your faith, because they just

(09:06):
don't line up. You know, they don't have the same categories,
They aren't the same goals. There aren't the same tools,
the same means.

Speaker 4 (09:13):
You know, So unless your name is Komani Iranian Iranian Revolution.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was, yeah, I was just reading
about that earlier before we got out of the pub.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
Sorry, well, let's talk about the new album. It's called Wasteland.
It comes out. In fact, Spotify now has this whole
thing where it's like it's got a countdown. I just
found this out recently, very ominous. You know, there's an
album coming out. It's got a whole countdown now, waste

(09:50):
So it's thirty days exactly, thirty days and Wasteland's coming out. Yeah,
let's let's talk about the new album. What uh, you know, what,
what has this whole process been like for you with
this new album in terms of maybe like how it
compares to previous albums. Does it feel like it's you
guys are trying to do something maybe a little different.
Does it feel pretty much the same as any other album? Yeah,

(10:10):
I'm just kind of curious just what the general vibe
of this album is like in comparison to other albums.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, hopefully it's it's uh well for us, we were
trying to do a lot of things differently. About probably
about seventy five percent of how we approach albums we
tried to do differently, you know, because normally in the past,
we've you just you know, I'd write songs and then
reflects back on sort of what the theme of what

(10:39):
I was seeing, you know, through the writing. But this
was kind of the first time that I kind of
determined the theme and the vision not just lyrically and thematically,
but also sonically as well. And that's kind of why
it took us a little bit longer to get to

(11:01):
where we're at, you know, with releasing the album. You said,
it's been three years since Eulogies came out, you know,
we did a cover album in between, and that was
kind of like when you need to like blow off
little steam, and so we did that and that was
a lot of fun, and it was a little bit
of like a bucket list thing, so we're like, now's
the time, you know, But it did give us a

(11:21):
little bit more time to really zero in and focus
on creating this album and kind of looking at it
from you know, a much further like vantage point, you know,
of trying to think about from start to finish, thinking
about that musically, thinking about it thematically, and that takes
a lot of songs, and what we're trying to do

(11:42):
as well with the idea is going to require a
lot more songs and even what's in this album the Wasteland.
So yeah, it's been really challenging in a good way
and refreshing, making me think differently, think outside the box.
Hopefully it's delivering something different for the listener.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
Yeah, So would you say that it's more along the
lines of like a concept album, then.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah, you know, it's a bit of a dirty word.

Speaker 4 (12:10):
I know, but I think it's I think it's the
correct word in most cases when you're actually thematically overarching
having a message there, right.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yeah, I think the only reason why it like it
gets that idea, you know, I said it's a dirty word,
is just because people immediately will then compare it to
just other examples and they'll either have a really strong opinion,
you know, that they're excited or they're not interested. But
our goal was to write good songs, not to you know,

(12:42):
write a bunch of songs that feel like a concept album.
But couldn't you couldn't just listen to one song on
its own, right, And so that's what we're really trying
to do, is to provide, yeah, the same sort of
album experience, but to do it thematically and within the
realm of a content and for their for the album

(13:02):
to flow, you know better. So I mean, some of
my favorite albums, like The Receiving an Assirens, between the
Heart and the Synapse. I just love the way that
album feels from start to finish, the way the songs
flow together. But the songs are so distinct, you know,
with the interludes or the way songs will end and begin.
And we really were like, man, we've been a band

(13:23):
for so long, We've never even tried to do this before.
And I know why. It's because it's hard and so
you know, and it takes thought and planning, and it
always kind of intimidated me. And you know how it
is for bands, It's like by the time you finish
an album and like catch your breath, like it's already
time to start work on the next one. And if
you don't really give yourself some runway, you know, you're

(13:46):
not going to essentially land the plane. And that's what
I would hate to do. So that's that's where we're at.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
So talk about that process a little more, because to me,
that sounds like the most daunting task in the entire world.
Trying I mean, writing once song itself is difficult. Finishing
a song especially is difficult, right putting the finishing touches on,
but doing it for a whole album just feels so
much more difficult, maybe needlessly so, just because you know

(14:17):
the world that we live in, the way streaming works
and everything like that. I don't know how albums are
are taken as much these days. I know Mason and
I that's how we prefer to listen. We'd rather listen
to a full album all the way through instead of
one single song. But I can't imagine going through that
entire process because it sounds too difficult for someone like me.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
Yeah, well, I mean I think it's freeing in some senses. So, like,
if you think about the idea of writing a song. Okay,
how broad of a concept is that what is a song?
A song could be anything all the different genres we have, tempos, keys, style,

(15:00):
feels like there's so many variables to think about. But
when you start putting like some constraints of like I
want this song to feel this way and to do this,
there's the challenge of, you know, trying to deliver on that.
But there's also you have like these kind of like
guardrails and these boundaries that are sort of helpful because
you're always then testing. You know, I like it, but

(15:23):
is it serving the purpose it's supposed to serve, you know,
knowing what this this song, this message is going to
be about, does this really kind of helped convey that
feeling or that thought or that emotion. And so in
that side of things, I felt that's why I was
saying it's challenging in a good way. It was like
really freeing to kind of learn a different way to

(15:43):
write songs. And it's I've kind of done that in
the past, but like a song or two on an
album maybe, but this this really like just pushed me
in a different way. And so I found it to
be like somewhat liberating and challenging and in a good way,
and it produced like results that I'm really happy with,
and it made me do things that I know I

(16:05):
would not have done had I had those sort of
like boundaries, Sure did you?

Speaker 4 (16:09):
Did you like storyboard it?

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Then?

Speaker 4 (16:12):
Like I don't know if that's like the correct term,
but basically like write out like hey, this is the
this is the map or this is the game plan.
We want to kind of traverse.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah, I mean so, like I have a whole story
that I wrote basically, and I've been trying to I've
been working on finishing it like an actual narrative for
like for people to read. Hopefully. I don't I've never
written anything like that before, but I kind of I
just sat down and I just start off by writing

(16:44):
like a seven to ten page narrative of the whole
story and then started and then from there I sort
of like reverse engineered it and just thought, Okay, how
can I get from point to point B? And how
do songs serve that purpose? And also not trying to
like answer all the questions and say everything needs to
be said, because we know there's different ways we're going
to tell the story, not just in the music, you know,

(17:05):
in the music videos and also in you know, maybe
there's going to be a narrative for people to access
and to just read Crazy Thing twenty twenty five there
and go, you know, so that'll be for the people
that are interested in that. But I think in this
day and age, like you guys said, like, I'm just
like you. I consume albums. I love albums. But if

(17:29):
you think about some of the biggest bands in like
even just heavy music, like sleep Token and spirit Box,
those are bands that are mad, they're making albums, and
their fans want to listen to albums, and I think
that that listener is there. You know, you could really
try to fight for the low hanging fruit and just
kind of get lost in the sea of whatever other

(17:51):
like heavier band is doing, you know. But if I
think if you just kind of live in your own
world and don't watch what everyone's doing and try and
really do your own thing, I think that that works
better for you. You know. And even like bands I know
you guys are fans of and friends of the Silent Planet,
you know, that's always just kind of been who they are.
And I think the bands that last and you know,

(18:12):
success is relative, but that have success, you know, have
like a true fan base. It happens through that medium
almost always.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
So yeah, every now and then we'll talk to maybe
like a Eavy band that is kind of doing the
thing where they just keep releasing singles and whatnot. And
and obviously like I'm not here to tell any band
what they should or should not do, but it is interesting.
It does seem to me like, Okay, maybe the releasing

(18:41):
singles one at a time maybe works for a certain
kind of genre of music, especially maybe even a certain
kind of artist that's trying to emerge within a genre.
Even you know, big pop stars are still continuing release albums, right,
Like Taylor Swift still putting out albums, right, So she's
not releasing one song at a time. So it does

(19:04):
seem to be maybe a feasible way to get your
start if you're a brand new artist that's just trying
to make it. But as like a band, especially a
more established band, and especially bands that are in like
the heavy music industry, it's just not from my owner,
from my experience, it's just not what the audience wants.

(19:24):
An audience doesn't want just a series of singles that
might get released once a month, Like they really just
want an album that feels cohesive, that they can listen
to all together. And it makes sense that why these
selects twelve songs or whatever it is make they make
sense together as a group, and that seems to be
something that's still appreciated in heavy music. It might not

(19:46):
be appreciated in other music genres, but it certainly seems
to be appreciated in this scene.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah. Well, I mean even I think even like you
referenced Taylor Swift, I mean, it doesn't get anymore like
mainstream than that, but you can see that sort of
like fandom. It's really the same type of person. They
just have different musical tastes, right, They found an artist

(20:11):
that they click with and connect with and kind of
speaks to them, whether it's musically, lyrically and or both.
And so they're like, I'd rather have more, you know,
they don't kind of just want the ear candy. And
and so I think, yeah, it's we're just we're I mean,
we're making music for ourselves at the end of the day.

(20:32):
We're making the music that we want to hear, and
you know that's why we're making albums. We want to
hear albums. That's pretty simple.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
Sure, speaking of albums too, this is your sixth album
off of Solid State, and I'm trying to think through
right now of you know, Tooth and Nail, solid State,
you know, all those types of bands. I'm trying to
think through who might have more albums on a Tooth
and Nail label than you guys. I think normal gene,

(21:02):
I think is there, right, they've got.

Speaker 4 (21:04):
But they also had they also had a few that
were on Razor and Tie.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
It's true, but I'm yeah, still is total. There's more
than six they've still got. They've got to be right around.

Speaker 4 (21:16):
Like six Starflyers.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
But maybe like yes, I was about to say Starflyer
for sure has got to be. I mean, they've got
like twenty albums probably on Tooth and Nail. But I
can't I can't really think of too many other bands
that might have six or more albums. Now, maybe Silent Planet,
a Silent Plane doesn't have six. Yeah, but like, yeah,
I'm trying. Maybe this is something that you've thought about.

(21:39):
And I'm sure you grew up listening to some Solid
State bands, but that like at this point, like you
guys are historic in terms of output as a Solid
State band like that, that's got to be something that's
pretty unique. And yeah, again, like I don't know, especially
with this new release, like if that's something that you've
thought about as being a like, oh wow, like we're

(21:59):
this this is our sixth album on Solid State and
like there's not too many other Solid State bands that
can say that.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yeah, it's really those last few words of that sentence
that I've definitely thought, like, Wow, this is our sixth album.
This is so cool that we were here, you know,
one album was the goal. But then you're right, you know,
on solid State, and I I never think about I
think because like the bands that like got me into

(22:28):
Solid State, none of them are here except for Norma Geen.
So like I kind of lose sight of like I
don't feel like we so badly wanted to be on
Solid State and we saw those bands to be a
part of what they were doing, but we like got
there and they were all gone, and so like even
Norma Geen, and so we're kind of like we're like
we kind of felt like we're here, like oh wait,

(22:50):
nobody's here, Like what happened? Like where's everybody? You guys?

Speaker 4 (22:54):
Kind of came in and during the dog days there
for a little while.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah, yeah, a little yeah, a little bit. Yeah. But
you know, so I don't ever think about it in
that in that point of reference, but that it is
really it is really cool, and I really hope that
you know, we're we are able to add a small
part of what the feelings that I got for Tooth
and Nail and Solid State bands, you know, part of
just that, Yeah, legacy of bands that have been a

(23:21):
part of that. That would be cool if we were
able to to give that to some music listeners as well.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
I can't well, I've got a question about the musical stylings.
You wouldn't happen to be a Blade Runner fan, would you?

Speaker 3 (23:35):
I am?

Speaker 4 (23:36):
I was. The very first time I heard these new songs,
I was like, man, I feel like I'm in Blade
Runner right now, like I am, I am Harrison Ford man.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
So I mean, if you really wanted to compliment me,
I know you guys were saying I was better looking
than Dustin, which is not true. But that right there,
that's some some high praise. Definitely a major inspiration. And
that was another new thing for me, was trying to
take inspiration from places outside of music that aren't music,

(24:09):
like visually and really trying to think about that. And
so honestly, what I did is I just pulled a
bunch of stills from movies that I loved that I
felt communicated the feeling and the environment of sort of
the world I was imagining in my head. And Blade
Runner was one of those Mad Max book of Eli

(24:34):
good movie a Matrix. Yeah, so like kind of a
conglomeration of all those things, you know, And honestly, you know,
if if The Lord of the Rings was like set
in the future somehow, you know, trying to imagine even
some of that sort of world and vibe not so

(24:57):
much the storyline, but sort of the feeling of that
world is very interesting. If you ever think about and
just how Tolkien, you know, understands the way he portrays
good and evil. It's actually so different than so many
modern depictions of what that looks like.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
Sure, the technocrat of the microchips instead of orderings, Yeah,
I like that. No, that's a really insightful kind of
image to put in people's minds as they as they
go through listening to these things, I think, or these
new tunes, I think it's It's definitely gonna help color

(25:34):
and influence their mental image as they're listening, especially if
they're active listening, because I mean that's what I was
doing and that was exactly where I went. So you
hit the nail on the head pretty well there.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
I'd say, well, that's cool. Yeah, I appreciate that. Thanks.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, I'm just trying to imagine like the Eagles and
a futuristic Tolkien universe just like a bunch of.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
It's just it's just a rocket.

Speaker 3 (26:07):
Well, it would be like a friendly drone, so it
would be more like, you know, some sort of like
BB eight, you know, R two D two flying. You know,
it's like kind of cute, but like Majestic, you know,
I don't know what that was.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
It is just gonna come rip shreds.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, I'm curious for you guys with this new album.
Like you know, obviously it sounds like, you know, kind
of from like a concept album perspective like that, that
is a new thing that you you all are exploring
with this new album in comparison to other albums just
from like a music standpoint, just from the instruments, Like,
is there anything that you're kind of doing that you're like, oh,

(26:45):
that's like, that's definitely kind of a new thing. But
maybe it's just like a new guitar tone that you
guys are playing around with, or maybe it's a new
drum tone that you're playing around with. But I'm just
kind of curious, like, were there new sort of sounds
that you're you guys were trying to do, or maybe
just you're you're maybe trying to write like in a
different way, maybe you're trying to put a breakdown in
a different spot than you normally would. I'm just curious,

(27:06):
like from a kind of music and instrumentation kind of standpoint,
is there anything that you guys are doing a little
differently on this album than previous albums.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
Yeah. I mean we ended up seeing, you know, after
we were done, the difference, but one thing that like
I decidedly wanted to do differently, you know, again like
with the sixth album. It's really cool, but you also
are fighting against a lot of your natural instincts that
could end up being repetitive. There's natural instincts that are good,

(27:37):
but there's some that you fall back on that are repetitive.
And you know, I don't I don't want I don't
want like vocal melodies to sound similar to the last
album in the sense that it's like, oh, it sounds
like that kind of what you did last album. You know,
you can only escape that so much. But even just

(27:57):
song creation, And so one of the things I decided
to differently was, you know, a lot of time I
would start songs like on the acoustic and just trying
to like work out melodies and lyrics, or I just
start writing riffs. And what I tried to do differently
was I'd been watching a ton of videos of these
like producers that just do like electronic music, and how

(28:19):
they'll take samples, like they'll they'll record like a door
closing and slamming and make a beat out of it,
and then have a chance they challenge each other to
like make like this, you can only use this one
audio file and start making beats and stretching it and
tuning it and making a melodic taking like the squeaky

(28:39):
door and making that melodic element, you know, making the
door closing that thud that's the kick and when you
hear the lock latch, that's the snare, and how they
treat that, And I was just like floored by their
their creativity. And so you know, probably four three or
four years ago, I just started fiddling with that. And

(29:01):
so one of the ways I tried to challenge myself
is like, how would you start a song if these
were the only tools you had. And that's why you
could probably hear a lot of those, you know, more
electronic you know, I guess blade Runner esque or an
industrial sounding sorts of vibes with the songs, because I

(29:22):
was just trying to find different ways to like spark creativity.
And what's exciting for me was just to see like
the different type of guitar playing that I would try
and figure out to match what I had already began
with that. There's a song on the album called Smoke,
and Joey the other the guitar player, he actually just
sent me he bought like a synth plug in and

(29:45):
made like that first sound at the very beginning of
that song. And as soon as I heard that, like
I started just envisioning the whole song. It's nothing I
would have ever written had I probably sat down just
play guitar. And so that was a different approach and
we got different results, and that's what it was really
exciting for me was to like feel like guitar playing

(30:08):
was fresh and new again, and I was actually playing
guitar a lot more like like re for your stuff
and kind of going back to that, you know, my
earlier days of playing probably faster than I can or
should in certain parts.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
And well, yes, there are moments like one of the
things I love about this new album, or at least
from what I've heard so far, is you kind of
get this sort of cinematic ethereal feel that's going on.
Obviously you're talking about some of the sense and kind
of experimentation that you do with that, but there are
moments in this album that feel almost like the heaviest
you guys have ever been. Yeah, And that dynamic is

(30:47):
I mean, Colin always talks about how much he loves dynamics.
That is a dynamic that is something that we absolutely love.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
Yeah, And I think part of it too is the
older I get that the less that I care about,
if that makes any sense, the less that I care
about what other people think. And and I'm also just
I'm trying to just savor every moment we have to
make albums, and there's lots of music that I like
and in the past I'd put sort of limits on

(31:17):
like what the band should or shouldn't do, or could
or couldn't do, and I've just been throwing them out
year after year. You know what those things are, because
if it's something I like and it's something I want
to do and everybody like is into it, like what's
stopping us? You know? And it's kind of fun like
when you you know, write something and I send it
to the guys and and it makes them like laugh

(31:40):
out of like like oh my goodness, like this is
like this sounds belligerent, or this is like that's so
low or that's so slow, or you have timed it
there with all those sorts of things that like, I
don't know, it makes music fun for us and just
don't want to have any rules. And we also just
wondered what is really like what is a heavy, heavy

(32:02):
Wolves of the Gate song, always trying to maybe push
what that feels like and what could that be and
still feel like us. And so that was fun for
me to explore because like a song like Law of
the Wasteland, I knew what the song was supposed to
be about, and you know, I shouldn't really show up
too much on a song you know, that's about an
eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. You know,

(32:22):
there's not's not too much room for some clean singing there.
So that's that's what happened.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
That makes sense, makes sense. So thematically, obviously there's there's
some there's it feels like there's a lot of pessimism here,
which I'm I'm all for. Obviously, you have like a
little bit like a dystopian kind of set up. You know,
we got the song titles that will tell you a
lot I think alone, and then you take it a
step further and you hear a lot of these a

(32:51):
lot heavier songs than I think you guys have done
in the past, and and things of that sort as well.
Would you mind just maybe giving us little taste as
to your concept of what the major themes are.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Yeah, so you know, the wasteland is it's built in
a metaphor as a world, but it's really a mentality.
And it's when I say mentality, what I mean is
I the thing that what I tried to do is
basically this, like I feel like when we all look

(33:28):
out into the world, we have sort of a sanitized
like you know, some people are very pessimistic, but I
think we all have a very sanitized like idea of
what the world is like and what humanity's like, and
we hide selfishness so well, you know, so much of
what we do is entrenched in selfishness. I mean, we're

(33:50):
talking about politics before, you talk about a bunch of
people saying that they're caring about the masses and their
job is to serve. But there they're leeches, you know.
But all they are is expression, you know, of what
a lot of us would probably do given that same
sort of power. And so what we're trying to do
with the Wasteland is maybe sort of peel back some

(34:12):
of the niceties of the things that we maybe mask in,
like well, I'm just like taking care of myself or
you know, I got to look out for myself. It's
like all of this is really just entrenched in a
selfishness and a self centeredness. And that's what a lot
of the album sort of focuses on, is what does
it look like to live lawlessly? And what is the

(34:35):
result of living lawlessly sort of creating living for yourself
really and living based on your own rules, your own morality,
your own agenda. Your own purpose, and with that, everyone
becomes an enemy. When you're trying to live for yourself only,

(34:55):
everybody is an obstacle to your joy, to your peace,
to your comfort, and you know, you'll try to do
whatever you can to survive, like you're not going to
be a maniac. But the ways that we try to
quote unquote survive can still be pretty inhumane and brutal.
And really, I'm just with these songs, I'm trying to

(35:16):
paint a picture of maybe what goes on in sort
of the unseen world of our minds. When I say
we like, I'm the greatest test subject I have. I
can't get inside anybody else's mind, and so I'm not
sitting here like judging the world, going look how selfish
everybody is except for me. It's like, where do you

(35:37):
think I'm getting these ideas? I see my own selfishness
come out, and you know, I'm married, I have kids,
and remember when I first got married. You know, it's
kind of like somebody turned the light on in the
dark part of a room that I didn't know existed,
and I'm just kind of like, wow, Okay, that's ugly.
Why am I responding this way? This is the person

(36:00):
that I love more than anybody else in the world,
and I've hurt her more than any bai ELTs has
ever hurt her. And the same thing with my kids.
I love my children to death, but I see at
times like I just like don't want to give to
them the things that I should give to them, like
when I say of myself, and so I see, I
see all these things in myself, And really the Wasteland

(36:22):
is sort of a picture of a world that I
don't want to live in, and I find myself sort
of going back to it time and time again. And
this album hopefully serves as a reminder to me and
maybe a bunch of a lot of other people, this
is the end of living that way, and it will
rob you of all joy, peace and comfort.

Speaker 4 (36:41):
You know. I'm reminded of of a song by the
Who called Won't Get Fooled Again, and the beginning goes
meet the new Boss same as the old Boss, has
a lot of the same kind of thematic elements that
you're discussing, and then in the end it says, I'm
just gonna get down on my knees and pray, m hmm,

(37:05):
we won't get fooled again, and by we like, are
we going to continue to fool ourselves in this case?
Are we gonna like just keep putting those scales over
our eyes and and saying no, the uh, it's not
as bad as everyone wants to make it out to
be like this, you know, this selfishness or the maybe

(37:27):
the rot individuality that comes from living in the culture
that we do and the world that we do and
the technologically connected world that we do. So I think
it is a timeless message that needs to needs to
keep being portrayed.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Yeah. I like the way that you worded that because
you know, I referenced this song just before Smoke, you
know that song where it's at in the album is
at this point the character should be recognized, Like the
character should be reconizing all of these things that are
exposed in him, and he's just trying to hide it,
you know. And that's you know, the phrase blowing smoke.
But in the course, you know, he's blaming it on

(38:10):
false devils, you know, you know the old phrase got
the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other.
The devil made me do it. It's like, no, like you're
responsible for your own, like, no one makes you do
anything you know that you don't want to do. I
guess in regards to your character and how you act.
And you know, the thing that I've realized about myself is,

(38:34):
you know, when I think about the Gospel and who
Jesus is and what he came to do, you know,
the people that he's coming to and are receiving his
care and his love and his mercy are the people
that recognize how desperately they need it. And we just
so badly don't want to be seen for what we are,
you know. But like the lepers know their lepers, and

(38:58):
he's their only hope. And that's why when they come
to him and they say, if you're willing, you can
make me clean, and he says, I am willing, but
you have to see that you're a leper first. And
that's so much of what this first album is about
is hopefully just a mirror for us to look in.
And it's not fun. It's not fun for me for
a whole album to really be working to that end.

(39:20):
But you know, we just realized in the past, you know,
we would try to accomplish a lot in one song.
It's like, why don't we play the long game and
see what we can accomplish in an album and start
working towards you know, yeah, a deeper, a deeper dive
into maybe thinking about these things. Because to me, you know,
the more the more that I guess deeply dive into

(39:43):
understanding my weakness and my need for Christ, when I
see who He is and what he provides, it's that
much more beautiful when I'm able to receive it, you know.
And so that's kind of what we're hoping to do
with this album and hopefully more to come.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
A thought that is kind of coming to my mind
right now is you know, as you're kind of maybe
talking about your interpretation of the narrative and themes that
you talk about in this album, you know, obviously, being
the author of that narrative and those themes, you would
imagine like, Okay, you probably have the correct interpretation of it.

(40:26):
But I'm curious, like when, ah, when you think of
maybe you know, in thirty days now, fans are going
to start listening to this album and they might have
their own interpretations on what maybe some of the lyrics
mean to them. And I'm just curious for you knowing
that it does seem, especially like a sort of concept album,
there is like a sort of narrative that you're trying

(40:47):
to get across or a theme that you're trying to
get across, And I'm just curious, like, what do you
do when like maybe a fan might have like a
maybe a somewhat different, like different interpretation of a narrative
than you know, you, as the author of that narrative
would have. I'm just kind of curious if that does happen,
which you know it very well, oh yeah, especially if

(41:09):
maybe it just feels a little different now since this
is a concept album versus like you know, some of
your previous albums anyway, curious about.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
That, Yeah, no, I mean it's happened with songs. It's
happened with us with songs of ours before, and to me, like,
I don't really It's one thing if somebody asks me outright,
what is this? What it's? Is this what you wrote
it about? You know, then I'll feel compelled to just say, like, well,
you know, and I'll try and find a way to

(41:35):
maybe thread in what they're saying, as long as it's
like not like crazy and outlandish, you know, But for me,
I as long as I don't think whatever they're believing
would be destructive to them. I try to leave room
for them to take the good thing that they're getting.
Why would I Why would I ruin that? If it's

(41:55):
a good thing, I don't want to take that from them,
And so for me, it would just be, yeah, a
question of if I think that it might be like
harmful for them to to be taking maybe something that
if it's if it's a message, that wouldn't be good
for their soul. Basically that's what would concern me. And Yeah,

(42:18):
I have never really run into a situation like that before,
and I've definitely heard tons of different perspectives where people
take a line and they take it to mean something else.
I know what I meant by that line, and it's
not like it doesn't hurt my feelings, but it does
make me think, like, that's cool that you were able
to pull that from this. That's definitely not what I meant.

(42:40):
But you know, I see, I see that it's benefiting you,
and I'm grateful for that because it just shows that
I was I'm I wasn't nearly smart enough to think
of that, Like it was just I just wrote it,
and it got used for something good despite me, if
that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
Yeah, it's better than the opposite, where you get like
a helter skelter the Beatles and occult out of it,
you know.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yeah, yeah, Well it reminds me of like, you know,
if we were to look at like the Bible, like
you might read a verse and interpret it in some way,
shape or form because of like your own experiences, and
I might have maybe a slightly different way of interpreting
it because I have a different, you know, different experience
in life. But you know, nonetheless, like the fact that

(43:27):
like a single verse or multiple verses in the Bible
can like inspire us in that way to be better humans,
to follow Jesus in a better way, or whatever it
might mean for each and every person. Like I think
that's like that's one of the beautiful things about like
the Bible, or really not just the Bible, but like
really any scripture or even just even lyrics or poetry

(43:49):
or whatever. It might be. Like, it's really cool how
because each each and every human has their own experiences,
They're probably gonna interpret this a little differently, but nonetheless
it could inspire them to a better person or inspire
them in their life in a different way than even
maybe what the author was intending.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
Yeah, I mean when things are truthfully true, there is
depth and layers to what that may be. If that
makes any sense.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Well, I think what you're saying is like, like something
that's true is going to be universal to each and
every human you know, how they might interpret that truth
might be a little differently from each and every person,
but it's going to be true nonetheless.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
Yeah, because the truth is powerful, and so the way
that it I picture it as kind of like like
the truth is like a woven tapestry. Tapestry and has
all these threads. You may be tugging at one part
of it, and it's it's a good part because it's
part of the truth. It may not be exactly what
I was trying to communicate, but to me, at the

(44:53):
end of the day, it's, you know, there's part of
a whole, it's part of it's part of a whole,
you know, And to me it's like if somebody's just
getting even that at its base level, I am. I'm
grateful for that, and I think that's a way that
you know, it's it's it's really hard to think about
music it's also really easy to make it bigger than

(45:14):
what it is too and for me to understand that
like music is powerful. Don't get me wrong, music is
an incredibly like powerful tool and vehicle. But to also
not put so much like pressure on myself to like do,
to think that I'm gonna do or be or accomplish

(45:35):
something any anytime I've tried to do that, you know
it's gonna fall flat in its face. And it's kind
of like you just create it. And for me, I
just trust that God's going to use it and in
the way that he sees fit. Because it's not up
to me anyway. I can't make you interpret anything, you know,
by even if I had the most compelling like argument

(45:58):
in in the lyrics, you know, I can't compel you
through my song. You know, it's a good point.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
It's a good point. Are we feeling good, maze or
do you want to do? Are you ready for guilty pledgures?

Speaker 2 (46:12):
If you're ready, I'm ready, Steve, You're ready for guilty plagures.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
The pleasures that are guilty?

Speaker 4 (46:17):
All right, Well you can go on whatever or do
you like guilty pleasures or Steve?

Speaker 3 (46:25):
Yeah, So, when thinking about this, it was helpful that
you said, what are things that you'll listen to that like?
Especially the guys, the other guys in the band would
be like I don't.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Like this, or like why, or they would make fun
of you for.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
Why would you like? How do you enjoy this? One
of the first ones that came up was it's they're
like a funk soul band called Jamericua.

Speaker 4 (46:51):
Oh I love yeah, good call though.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
Such a good band to me.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
It's just like like it just it's just feel good
music when you hear it, like how do you get upset?
And he's just he's just a happy dude. I don't
know why he's wearing an Indian headdress but doing that
with his shirt off, and he's dancing and singing. His
band by the way, his he always has the like
most phenomenal musicians. I could just watch them play, especially

(47:19):
their drummers. Drummers are unreal.

Speaker 4 (47:22):
So you're gonna have to get what's what's the gosh,
what's the big song name? It's blank and right now
where he's in like the room, and he's got like a.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
That's and it's like.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
That sounds like a lot of sun. It's the big
one so canned heat, love philosophy, gosh, the.

Speaker 4 (47:43):
Hat, the big like bucket hat that's like velvety, and
he's got like a oh.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
I don't know any of the music Virtual.

Speaker 4 (47:50):
And Saturday that's it. Yeah, you got to watch that
music video and you got to get hat.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
I've never seen any of the music videos. I only
watched their live videos because they're great lives.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Virtual Insanity was like one of the coolest music videos
of the.

Speaker 4 (48:06):
Yeah, it's like one of those like rotating room things,
you know.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
That's all right, it's cool, all right, I know what's
going in the YouTube algorithm.

Speaker 4 (48:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
Yeah, that's a good pick. By the way, well, I'm
just glad. You guys know who who do we say?

Speaker 2 (48:21):
He?

Speaker 3 (48:22):
They? What I mean?

Speaker 4 (48:24):
Enigma?

Speaker 2 (48:24):
He It is kind of like it is like kind
of his solo Pride project.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
Let's go with yeah. So yeah, Jameric way.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
I think they have a song in Napoleon Dynamite too,
don't they.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
I'm pretty sure there's a Napoleon Dynamite.

Speaker 4 (48:40):
Like.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
I think one of the songs that he like dances
to in his room is a I do remember, Yeah,
it's Can't Heat, Can't he yeh can't can't heats in Napoleon.

Speaker 4 (48:50):
I do remember when he was with Dillinger, somebody had
asked him, hey, who's your favorite who's your musical icon
that like for your life for like singing, and he said,
and everyone is expecting, like, you know, a Slayer or
something like that, and he's like.

Speaker 3 (49:06):
Jamericay, no, he is. He's very he is very inspiring
if you yeah, so yeah, I know people are gonna
look this up and be like, what if you don't
get it, just deal with it and just recognize that
you don't know how to have fun. Yeah, all right,
so next one, olymp biscuit.

Speaker 4 (49:26):
Really yeah, yes.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
See, now you've nailed guilty pleasures and figured it out this.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
Yeah, I mean I grew up. I grew up in
the era where they like, you know, where they rule
the world. But I mean Wes Boorland is just a
riff monster. Anybody who plays guitar and like can't see
past like maybe the elements they don't like and you
can't just listen to the riffs like I'm sorry, but
he was doing stuff in the early two thousands that

(49:56):
bands today are trying to replicate and failing miserably. He's
just still the king.

Speaker 4 (50:01):
He is the saving grace of that band. But man,
you have an album called what is it hot Dog,
Water in the Chocolate Starfish or whatever. I just yeah,
I just can't. I can't do it.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
I mean to be like, yeah, I listened for the riffs,
I stayed for the rifts. That was That was it.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
I genuinely don't understand how Wes and Fred get along
at all, because like Wes seems like this really artsy,
super artsy, like eccentric guy, right, and then Fred is
just like this.

Speaker 4 (50:35):
Weirdo white monster drinking.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Like I mean totally like trailer park dude that just
like doesn't seem super artistic at all, Like like he's
just there. Yeah, he happens to be very talented as
a vocalist, but he's not like this like this super
deep interesting guy, Whereas Wes seems like I don't know
if you've ever seen interviews with West, but he's like
really interesting, really deep. Totally, they just seem like they

(50:58):
they seem like such op and yet together they just
make incredible, like catchy songs.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
I mean I think I think they just I think
they give each other enough room to be who they are.
There's no clash really because like because you said like
they're just two completely different types of like like personalities
that as they express themselves. And I think they both

(51:26):
were just kind of like you do you and I'll
do me, and it just worked.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
You know.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
Yeah, they're I it is a bit of an anomaly,
but yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
They're really getting like kind of a second.

Speaker 4 (51:39):
It's huge high school and I would say one of
the most popular bands, at least amongst the boys, is
Limp Biscuit, and I don't understand it. I mean, I
get it, but I also I'm just like really of
all the bands because like I'll play them like corn
and they're like this stuff sucks, and I'm like, yeah,

(52:01):
I'm like all right, it's the same thing in a
lot of ways. But all right, yeah, okay, just a
little more serious.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
I guess well, we did you America. I we did
Limp Biscuit. I'm gonna just I'm gonna keep We're gonna
hit just a totally different genre. Now do a.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Oh yes, I feel you there. Okay, she's kind of
before you go into why you're why you're interested in
her music, I will say there are very few like
celebrity women that I would say like, oh my god,
like I have a total crush on her, or like
I just she is one of them, though, I find

(52:42):
so attractive.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
And and that's not like like I'm trying to like
Aubrey Plaza or however you sing your last name. But
she's from Parks, Yeah, Parks and Raca. I find her
very attractive. But yeah, I don't know if I like,
if you play a song for her from her that's
like her most popular song, maybe I've heard it, but
I couldn't, Like, I couldn't tell you. I couldn't tell

(53:05):
you one of her songs right now. I just know
what she looks like, and I'm like, she's just very attractive.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
What's crazy, Mason, is how much you love Jamericuai And
she's like heavily influenced by Jamericuai. And if you hear her, yeah,
I think you're gonna end up having like a crazy
infatuation with her after you listen to her music and
see how Jamerquai influenced it. She's inspired by like disco,
yeah and funk and soul.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Is she from Britain as well? Because Jamerica is from Britain.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
Yeah she I think she is British, but I don't
believe she is ethnically British. I think to her, I
forget where her family's from, but Albanian, yeah Albinia, yeah
there you go, yeah because uh yeah, but she she
kind of just brought back that that vibe and I
had no idea who she was. I wasn't sure if
Dulipa was a guy or a girl for like what

(53:56):
the name was. I just remember hearing the music and
I was like, wow, this reminds me so much of Jamiroquai,
but like with like even poppier, like catchier vocal.

Speaker 4 (54:06):
Here's here's what I really appreciate about Dualipa is she
has brought melody back into the mainstream. Like we have
not had melody about half a decade, and now all
of a sudden, she pops on the scene and now
everyone's moving back to melodic lines. I feel like we've
just been a melodic for a long time.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
I feel like for a long time, people are like
more than four notes. In this economy, you can't do that,
you know. It's like I was like, come on, we
gotta we gotta get some like melody, but you're right melody,
I mean yeah, yeah, so yeah, she's definitely. She's definitely
one of the the artists that I never thought I
would like. And I heard a song and I was like,

(54:51):
because there's like cool band elements as well, which doesn't
get its you know, recognition in modern pop music. So yeah,
the next, the next, guilty Pleasure. I'm gonna name a band,
but I'm also just gonna name a whole genre as well,

(55:11):
because the guys in my band, mostly mostly Ben, just
can't stand it. But there's a band called Bad City
and Bad City basically they tried to revive classic rock
hair metal vibe like kiss.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
And are they like, what's that like led Zeppelin? No,
not like that, not like they're not like that?

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Then no, But they only made one album. It is
like probably some of the best like production I've ever heard.
Like the band as like a rock band. It sounds
so good, the songs are so good, all the musicians
are so good. But if you don't like classic rock,
it's not for you. And I used to play all

(56:04):
the time on tour and Ben wud be like, not
this record again, and he was just like it's so annoying.
I'm like, why is it annoying? I was like, this
is like classic rock, like in this modern day and
age for everybody. Yeah, the band's called Bad City, But
like most any classic rock that I would put on,
the guys in the band would just they would just

(56:26):
punish me for like liking led Zeppelin, And I'm like,
this feels.

Speaker 4 (56:29):
Wrong, Like can you be in a band that plays
guitars and drums and sings and all that stuff and
not like led Zeppelin.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
Yes, there's there's a lot of them out there, and
I've been fine. I've found them all along our touring experiences.

Speaker 4 (56:43):
So wow, I am quickly losing respect for so many people.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
I feel like you need to name names. Yeah, throw
people under the bus.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
Who's the biggest hater in the band, let's say that.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
Well, I know Ben's the biggest hater. But yeah, I'm
trying to think about bands we toured with more. So
it is just shock and awe that they don't even
they couldn't name they don't know any led Zeppelin, or
they don't know like even like not knowing Nirvana.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Are you touring with sixteen year olds or what.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
I'm telling that's what I'm telling you. Yeah, it should be.
But it's kind of like if all so like when
we when we started touring, we were around so many
bands that like they're there, the bands they knew, like
started with Ask Alexandria like that sort of you know,
which is weird for us because like it it's at

(57:36):
that point nothing was really underground at that point, like
bands were bands in that scene were already in like
a main had like more of a mainstream vibe. You know,
they never saw the rise of like you know, the
Taking Back Sundays who like you can't believe they played Kimmel,
you know, like the from being a you know, an

(57:58):
emo band out of one an island, like having national recognition.
So yeah, but uh, I digress, No.

Speaker 4 (58:08):
I I get you. That is that is that is
just very strange to me. You know, it's a it
feels it feels anti anti Uh I don't know, how
do you say it? Not scene trying to think of
the right word to put in.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
There, but it's not alternative.

Speaker 4 (58:26):
Yeah really yeah, it's the wrong alternative for sure.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
Yeah. But in the last the last band that I
could think of that here's the thing. They were a guilty.
People considered them a guilty pleasure for a long time,
and and then they became cool to people in the scene.
But Paramore so like I was.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Thinking about that too interesting. Yeah, I think you're absolutely.

Speaker 3 (58:53):
Right, because like Paramour for the longest time, like you
couldn't you couldn't say you like them back when they
were like a war tour band because they weren't heavy
and they had a girl singer. And I'm just like,
I don't care. This is awesome, Like I just am like,
this is there. You could see how much they were
inspired by Jimmy World, and you would never say that
about Jimmy World, you know. But I think it was

(59:16):
just all the cards that were stacked against them in
that era. But I thought, I thought it was awesome,
And so I took a lot of heat for being
an open fan of Paramour and being in a heavy band.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
So I think I get I think you're absolutely yeah.
I absolutely agree in the fact that, like, yeah, I
think there was a certain time where people in our
scene for sure would have seen them as a guilty pleasure.
And I think people now kind of turn around and realize,
oh wait.

Speaker 4 (59:45):
Like think about how much they've done for this.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
We should appreciate them for who they are because they
they are actually are super legit clearly have influenced an
entire I mean now you're starting to see pop artists like,
you know, even who is it, Like Olivia Royrigo basically
got sued by or like or there was a lawsuit
about like how similar she sounded.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
She had to give them, so she gave them writing credit. Yeah,
she gave them writing credit proactively. Yeah, because she because
they realized how much it sounded, like I think I.

Speaker 4 (01:00:13):
Heard too that, like it was just the it was
just the record labels that were that were putting on
because Haley. Haley was like, no, it's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Yeah don't I can see the band totally being chill
about it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
But even like the new Chapel Roone, that Chapelarone album
album that came out last year, Like, they're not every
songs like this, but there are some songs that do
kind of have a little bit of that punk memo
vibe of guitar work that totally is totally it has
to be an homage to to.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
Yeah, yeah, they're they're a genre, you know, but back
in like they really are. But back in the day,
you know, they they were it, and it was almost like, yeah,
it's too poppy. It was bubblegum music. It wasn't seen music.
But I was like, who cares? It is good. It's good,
like you know, And then nobody said that about Jimmy World,
you know who kind of they came through, and they

(01:01:04):
obviously had some big hits that came through, but nobody
ever says they were sellouts or anything. So I always
felt like they got a bad rap in the beginning
and then everyone's like, oh, I love Paramour and I'm like,
where were you? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
I do think a lot of it is like people
from the scene just like have this sort of like
there if there's a woman that's fronting the band, that's
like automatically dislike credited or whatever. And hopefully people have
now realized, like Haley is truly one of the most
talented vocalists that we've ever seen, and we need to
appreciate her for who she is, because I mean, it's

(01:01:36):
just it's truly unlikely that we'll ever have like a
woman that can sing or really truly not just a woman,
but like anyone be able to sing like that that
has like kind of more like emo vibe.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Yeah, and also to have to just do things on
their own terms on a huge stage. Yeah, you know
that's tough, you know. Yeah, And it's tough to sort
of have the belief in what, well even not even belief,
just the resolve to just do what you want to do,
you know, because like their most recent album, you know

(01:02:10):
a lot of people will go like, oh, that's not
that's not what I wanted it to be. And it's like, well,
it's what they wanted it to be, so you kind
of deal with it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
They're they're one of those bands that has has been
able to have like top singles over the course of
an entire decade or in even more. I mean, they
just they they've they've figured out kind of a good
formula of mixing what is truly Paramore sowne with like
whatever might be just a good you know, top six
of good pop stuff. They've always figured that out. Also,

(01:02:40):
this Haley is one of these like white whales that
I have. I'm like, I'm not that I'm certainly not
a huge Paramore fan. I like their stuff, but not
a huge Paramore fan. But what I'm always fascinated by
is the fact that she's like a huge Chariot fan,
She's a huge Withouture fan, like all these bands that
we all love, She's a huge fan of all those bands,
and no body ever interviews her about that, And so

(01:03:02):
I would love to interview her sometime to just I'm
sure she could nerd out about the Chariot or met
with you or all these bands, and nobody ever asked
those I asked her those kind of questions, So I
feel like maybe we have a shot at interviewing or sometimes.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Yeah, it's just they got too big, and the people
that interview her, like the Paramore is about as edgy
as they get, you know, so right, I'm sure they
have no clue about you know, the crust punky you know,
floor show world that she came came from, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:03:31):
For sure, I will I will blame Lows for my
disdain for for Paramore, though I am kind of a
hater still because Low's used to I used to work
at Low's in college.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
Oh, Loads, Lows, you were talking about the band Low Loads.

Speaker 4 (01:03:47):
Sorry, Lows as in the hardware store. I worked there
in college and they played Still into You literally every
twenty five minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
Yeah, Yeah, I could. I could see it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:59):
Just round my nerves to a to a pulp. So yeah,
it is what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
So that's a great list though, That is a very good, fantastic,
fantastic guilty Pleasures list.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
Well, I appreciate that that was I did. I'm surprised
I did that so quickly. Yeah, but when as soon
as Colin you said what you said, I just I
had like these memories of people trying to shame me
for for the music I listened to.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
You get it, you get it? Yeah, that's great, wonderful. Uh, Steve,
what do you want to plug? Obviously new album comes
out in like thirty days basically, yeah, yeah, what do
you want to plug? Around the album? I'm sure there'
should be shows at some point. Yeah, what do you
want to plug?

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
I want everyone to listen to it on the internet
and the streaming services that you use. Watch the videos
that we put out, because it's not just us jumping
around a room. We're trying to tell you a story.
The music video we put out for Parasite is actually
much more a short film than it is a music video.
It's actually probably two thirds have film and one third

(01:05:04):
music video, and so we're trying our best to give
you guys more. We don't get more money for doing that.
For the video to be longer, we lose more money
doing that, and so we're doing that for you guys.
So watch it, immerse yourself in the story and hopefully'll
join us for the ride. But apart from that, you know,

(01:05:26):
it's ironic that we're talking about the biscuit. But I'm
pretty sure I want to start my own like rap
rock band.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
And really, do you have a.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
Name already that I can't share yet for legal or what? No?
I just I don't. I don't want to say it
and then somebody takes it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:47):
That's a good You could trademarket now, I mean if
it's if it's on the Internet, it's trademark.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
So I don't know if it works that. I don't
think it works.

Speaker 4 (01:05:56):
I mean we can put it up on Wikipedia and
make sure that it is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Do you okay? So you don't have a name picked out?
Do you at least have a Michael Jackson song that
you would like to cover?

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
Pick up? No, I have a Who song that I
want to cover?

Speaker 4 (01:06:10):
Nice? What's Who?

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
I want to I want to cover Limp Biscuit covering
the hood.

Speaker 4 (01:06:22):
L I m B. I remember the first time hearing
that because I was a WHO fan before a Limp
Biscuit fan. But I heard the weird electronic voice come
on with that, and I was like, what is this?
This is an abomination?

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
Yeah, and you know what, maybe this project will just
turn into what bands can I cover their covers of
a cover that's such a geed? Actually, see if we
can how deep we can go into it?

Speaker 4 (01:06:52):
Covers that's super?

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
Why are we Why are we literally thinking the same
thing exactly? So maybe that's what the rap rock band
will morph into.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
You.

Speaker 4 (01:07:04):
What's what's another what's another big cover from a rap
rock group.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Alien Criminal?

Speaker 4 (01:07:12):
Yeah, there's gotta be There's gotta be another really big one.
I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
I'm trying to think of Lincoln Park. Ever, did any
covers well sort of, Well, if you want to, like
consider the like jay Z song.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Like reanimation, I wonder who, I wonder who I could
get to reanimate with me? That's that's a real question.

Speaker 4 (01:07:32):
Well, you know what I think you have to do
is I think you have to go back to the
original rap rock cover song, which is run DMC and
Aerosmith this way.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
Yeah, I mean I should I should begin by covering that.

Speaker 4 (01:07:49):
Yeah, you should chronologically?

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
Yeah, or you know, I mean, I'm sure there's some
I'm sure there's some some C C M. You know,
old school nuts that would want to hear just that
revisited Jesus Freak by DC to.

Speaker 4 (01:08:05):
I want to hear rock Fist as well.

Speaker 3 (01:08:09):
Do you do you remember did you guys ever hear
Chasing Victories cover of Jesus.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
Free Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we have totally we've talked,
We've heard it, and we've definitely talked with.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
Him about it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
You talked with him about listened to it with him?

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
Oh, get out of here? Did he have did he
have fun memories of doing that?

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
Or or it was more of like the label kind
of was like, hey could you do this thing?

Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
It was definitely more of like a contract obligation type
of deal than like, oh, wow, we really love this band.
But I don't think I don't think they really had
a like, oh we really hate doing this kind of
like I didn't get I think it's kind but it
was something where it was a little bit more I
felt like it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:52):
Was a little tongue in cheek just just from what
I was gathering body language wise, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
For them, it is a little hilarious to cover a
DC talk.

Speaker 4 (01:09:04):
Yeah it's hilarious.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
Yeah Yeah, Chasing Victory Man, what just Gone too soon?

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
Rest and Piece Wow. Well, we're excited for not only
the new music that's gonna be coming out with Wolves
at the Gate, but at some point, clearly this rock
the rap rock group.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
You got something rock rap rap rock, We're gonna do
it all.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
I think Coloring cut out. But Steve, thanks so much
for chatty Moore about Yeah, the new album. We're just
really really stoked. It's gonna be one of the top
albums I'm sure for for at least Colin and I
so super stoked about it. Hopefully we get to see
you on the road at some point.

Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
Yeah for real, man, Thanks, I appreciate it, and it
was always fun conversation. And thanks for unearthing my guilty pleasures.
I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Wi A

Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
The hi st