EP. 60: Paris Olympics Swimming Review w/Coach Chris Morgan

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The intersection of endurance, sport, health, fitness, and life, challenging
conventional ideas, and empowering people with the science of self
propelled motion. This is the Endurance Experience podcast hosted by
Tony Ridge.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Today, I'm speaking with my friend and Olympic swim coach
Chris Morgan. He's back on the podcast. You might remember
him from my episode thirty three where we had an
overview of the then forthcoming Tokyo Olympics and the swim

(00:41):
program that was set to go to the Tokyo Olympics.
And this time we have a post Paris wrap up
of all of the swimming performances. You may recall Chris
is a former varsity swim coach with Harvard and Stanford

(01:06):
and also an Olympic swim coach who's been over at
the Olympics several times in the past. He's very knowledgeable
about swimming and he was over in Paris and I
told Chris that I needed to get him to come
on to give me all of his ins and outs

(01:30):
and behind the scenes of what was going on with
Olympic swimming and talk about some of the amazing performances
that we saw over there in Paris. There was a
lot to talk about, so we really had to pare down,
but we did get into what brought Chris over to

(01:50):
Paris and some of the behind the scenes in swimming.
We talked about Caleb Dressel and what were some of
the things that could have contributed to his difference in
performance from Tokyo to Paris. We talked about Katie Ledecci
and some of her outstanding performances, her battle and friendship

(02:14):
with Arian Titmus, the Australian becoming the most decorated women's
swimmer of all time. We talked about Leon Marshan, who
was really the standout of all of the swimming performances.

(02:35):
We talk about the overall performance of the Americans and
Michael Phelps's sharp critique of the swimming performances. And we
talk about Bobby Fink and his performance in the fifteen

(02:56):
hundred free, breaking a world record by Sun Yang which
many thought was a fossilized record for various reasons. We
talk about that. We talk about the breaking of the
one hundred meter free world record by China with a
time of forty six four, an incredible time, and I

(03:20):
get Chris's perspective on whether he thought it was legitimate,
whether anyone could ever approach beating that time. Going forward,
we talk about the open water swim performances in the
open water ten k as well as triathlon, and some

(03:41):
of the controversy behind the pollution or the what people
thought was a polluted river the sea and river and
whether or not it was actually polluted and that was interesting.
And then we have some other miscellaneous topics where we
talk about Michael Phelps and whether or not Michael Phelp
would have returned for another Olympics and in what events

(04:04):
if he would ever decide to do so. We also
talked about Katsu, which is a swimming device that Chris
works with, and he gives his overview about how that
is used for swim performance. And Chris gives me some
information about who he's going to be working with in

(04:27):
this next step in his coaching career. So, without further delay,
I bring you Chris Morgan. All right, I am on
with Chris Morgan. Thanks for coming on to the Endurance experience.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, no, thank you, Tony, and been thinking about you
a lot, as we mentioned before, and really excited to
talk to you about some recent experiences.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, let's the Olympics just finished up, and I was
looking at Chris's Twitter feed and I was like, my goodness,
Chris is over there. He's over there chopping it up
with all the Olympic folks, all the swimming folks, and
I was like, oh, man, I gotta I gotta get
him to get hop on the podcast and give me

(05:16):
all of the ins and out, ins and outs of
Paris swimming and everything that happened with so so much
I want to talk to you about. I want to
talk to you about the great performances that we saw.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
Out of incredible.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah. And then you know some of Michael Phelps was
over there. Michael Phelps had some comments about what he
thinks the performance, so many, so many things, Leon Marchan,
Katie Decky, incredible, all the stuff with open water swimming.
So before we get started, just give our listeners a

(05:51):
high level. And those of you who listened to the
podcast for a while, you remember we did we did
one podcast before Tokyo, I think it was episode thirty three.
We did a swimming preview there and now we're doing
Yeah for Paris. So tell the listeners high level how

(06:13):
you are involved with swimming your varsity swim coach experience
and your Olympic experience, and then and let us know
how you got involved with this year's Olympics and you
made your way over to Paris.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
So my background this is now and I feel so
old saying this number, but it's been about thirty five
years I've been involved with with.

Speaker 4 (06:38):
Swimming and more on the high performance side.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
You know, my career started after the Olympic trials in
nineteen ninety two. I was a Division two swimmer at
UC Davis qualified for Olympic trials in nineteen ninety two,
and that's where I think I really got the Olympic bug.
Was just having friends make the Olympic team. And that
Olympics was very special to me way back in nineteen
ninety two because a very good friend of mine, and

(07:03):
I think we've talked about this before, Pablo Morales made
the Olympic team, and for him it was a real
It wasn't just about making the Olympic team. For him,
it was because he had missed making the Olympic team
back in nineteen.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
Eighty eight as a world record holder.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
So to see him come back and he had taken
some years off he had gone to law school in Cornell,
and I won't go too much into that story, but
that's a whole nother chapter. Is I got that itch
and that bug. So I started coaching at Stanford under
a gentleman na named Richard Quick, who unfortunately lost to
brain cancer about ten years ago, but he was one

(07:39):
of my mentors. I then moved over to Switzerland, spent
fifteen years over there, became the national team coach, the
Olympic coach. I was not only in two thousand and
four had a kid make the Olympic team, but two
thousand and eight was really for me. It was really
everything came together and had some athletes do really well,
including a sixth place finish in the two undred three style,

(08:01):
a young man named Dominique Miitri, a young woman finished
sixth in the ten k, a gain named Swan Oberson.
So really, you know, as a coach, not winning medals
wasn't what it was about. It was more about just
experiencing people in the finals and at that level, especially
in the ten k. You know, that was the first
Olympic ten k, so to have an athlete finished sixth

(08:22):
was quite rewarding. So fast forward, I moved back to
the US in twenty twelve. That's where kind of we
met each other. About ten years ago, Tony and I
was coaching at Harvard but also doing some Masters coaching,
and I think we either met at a YMCA on
the pool deck or over at bu or both, right,

(08:43):
And you know, fastward, after coaching at Harvard for a
couple of years, got back into club coaching, and then
in the previous podcast we know, we talked about the
Katsu training that I'm involved with. So fast forward to
now is how did I end up over in Paris. Well,
it was sort of a three three tier or three
three hats that.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
I was wearing.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
No pun intended, because I'm always wearing a baseball cap,
but one was because I'm fluent in French after living
fifteen years in Switzerland. Became even though I took Spanish
in high school. Right, if you're immersed in the language,
it's much easier. So got involved as a French speaking
commentator for for French TV. And what was was through

(09:29):
another coach friend of mine who is French, who they
were asking him, it's too bad we didn't know any
Americans that spoke French.

Speaker 4 (09:37):
And he said I know a guy.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
So that that was one, you know, very exciting role
was to be able to be there.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
I could have took me over. I took a year
of French at Boston College. Okay yet I'm not nearly
is even close to but I winned it.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
Well people they the funny thing is the French they
don't they can't figure out my acts and they're like,
you're not Canadian, are you? And then when I tell
them why I was in Switzerland, like oh, you're Swiss German,
I'm like, no, actually from California, and then they're like,
no way, and they always try to argue with me
about that I'm not from California. Well yeah i am.
So that was one one thing and we'll dive into that.

(10:16):
And then there were two other roles with my I'm
the high performance director for a company, Katsu Global, which
is the original blood flow restriction training and we had
a relationship with the World Olympians Association. So a lot
of people on my Instagram and Twitter saw that I
was at the Oli House Onie is ol y. So
it's the reviation for all former Olympians can have that

(10:41):
that nomenclature, that that ol y next to their signature
to designate that they were an Olympian, and really their
motto is Olympian Forever.

Speaker 4 (10:51):
So once you're an Olympian, you're an Olympian forever.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
And being an Olympian as well as a coach is
very humbling. So I was at the Olie House presenting
our technology and in addition to that, also helping out
just with some of the other technologies that were including
the e Olie House as we called it, the electronic
version or the online version of the oli House, just

(11:15):
exposing Olympians who are retired and out there looking for
things to help them with their recovery and their their
continued athletic endeavors. So those are kind of the three
hats I was wearing. And yeah, watching swimming.

Speaker 4 (11:32):
There was it was.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
It was even though I had been at the two
thousand and eight Olympics, this Olympics was quite special.

Speaker 4 (11:40):
And we can talk more about that.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, And we talked about KATU a lot on the
last episode. Yeah, we can dive into some more about
you know, how KATU works for performance and recovery. Let's
start though, and so many things you said there. It's like, yeah,
I learned a lot from you. To this day, I
have I talked about it, I think in the intro

(12:05):
of the outro of the last podcast. To this day,
I have screenshots of all of Chris's well, many of
Chris's Master's workouts from Masters that I eventually took and
used as my own. I'll have to kick you some
royalties because no, I have pictures, pictures of the of

(12:28):
the whiteboard at Masters, all of Chris's, Chris's workouts. I
was like, oh, Chris, this is Olympic coach. I'm taking
all of these workouts. And so I now have those
in my in my fashion them into my swim library
that I still use.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
I appreciate it well and and just to touch a
quick So one one thing that I that people know
who have worked with me or worked under me is
I use a lot of patterns. And that was something
I learned from another mentor of mine. Another unfortunate story
because we lost him a couple of years ago. Gonadi Cheretsky,

(13:03):
who was a Soviet coach who left the Soviet Union
in nineteen ninety two, was coaching out of Australia and
he had taught me that the way the human brain
works is that it works really well with patterns, and
I always ask him what does that mean? And his
sort of layman's explanation to me, which and I learned

(13:27):
a lot more later, was when you work with patterns,
the brain sort of subconsciously plans ahead, so that if
you know you have certain workload in whether it's a
resistance workout or a threshold workout, or an aerobic workout,
or even a recovery workout, it will subconsciously plan ahead
to sort of, you know, easily prepare the mind, body

(13:52):
and spirit for the work that's coming. So I just
sort of use that, adapted it, and then it become more.
It became not only just part of my coach DNA,
but a little bit superstitious too. If I don't do patterns,
I I sort of lose my I lose my my
thought in my direction.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
So yeah, yeah, interesting the way the strategy works for sure.
All right, let's dive into some of the performances that
we saw over there. Yeah, where do we want to begin? Well,
my first question is with Caleb Dressel right right, Caleb Dresser.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
That's you know, he he is still Caleb Dressel, right
like he is one of the greatest and fastest sprinters
of all time.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
I think, you know, we take it for granted.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
We had this guy who you know, coming into Tokyo
and even in two thousand, right before as before we
were even exposed to what would become with the pandemic.

Speaker 4 (14:50):
You know, we knew he would come into Tokyo in that.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
Summer of two thousand and you know, push the maybe
not the same number of medals that Michael Phelps want,
but he was our golden boy right the World Championships
in the previous year. So then once we were all
affected by the pandemic, we had to wait a year,
and he still performed at the level he did. I

(15:14):
would make a mistake, but I know he certainly won
several gold medals and it was you know, fifty hundred,
three hundred fly and relays at that Tokyo Olympics and then.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Five golds in Tokyo, yeah, two golds in Rio.

Speaker 3 (15:28):
So so you know that being said, you know, we
put all these expectations and then when he took his
break and rightly so you know, we we can talk
more about you know, mental health awareness and the things
that he was affected by.

Speaker 4 (15:43):
And you know.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
I know Caleb well, and I know that the pressure
he not only from the outside but internally. You know,
he's he's somebody. And I'll tell you this one thing,
and hopefully if Caleb listened to this, I'll appreciate it. No,
he doesn't train like a sprinter. He whether it was
his previous coach Craig Troy or his current coach, Anthony Nesty,

(16:06):
he he works. And you know, he's a kid who
you can see back in when he was an ncublea swimmer.
He I believe he even had the American record in
the two hundred I am, so he's a very versatile swimmer.
He was very fast in the two hundred three and
he could even swim a five hundred yard freestyle and
c double a level. So this is a kid who
works so all of these expectations and then coming back

(16:28):
from that, it's it's hard. And I think for him
at the trials, making the team was already a blessing
and then you know again that pressure starts to mount
and what will Caleb do at the Olympics. So you know,
on the first day we saw him win the gold
on the relay.

Speaker 4 (16:48):
The first day of the meet in Paris, and I
was there.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
It was you know, I felt very I felt a
little bit Swiss, a little bit American, a little bit French.
So I really didn't you know, I'm always very patriotic,
and to hear the national anthem is you know, always
something that I but to that particular relay was very satisfying.
And I think then everyone set up Caleb's back, right,

(17:12):
so we had, you know, immediately day two we're expecting
and then it just sort of was was flat.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
You know, it wasn't the and.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
And there were with the performances of Leon Marsham, who
will talk about as well. You know, he's sort of
I don't want to say he got lost in the shuffle,
but he kind of got lost in the shuffle of
what we expected.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, I mean, so he didn't have he he didn't
have an individual medal, but he had to relay medals.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
Right, right, And you know what, maybe we'll hope in
the long run, I'm sure that with the ath that is,
you know, he's a new father, you know, he's got
a lot on his plate, he's got his sponsors, so
I would be quite surprised we can listen to this
again in three and a half years that if he
wasn't in LA twenty eight, I think that would be

(18:03):
a great thing for him to make a statement. And
you know, taking that break, if he doesn't take another
break and continues, I mean, breaks are really hard to
come back from. And whether it was six months, eight months,
you know, I always tell athletes it takes triple the
time to come back. So I think Caleb probably this
coming year will be you know, back to where he

(18:25):
wise and certainly in the event that he's one of
the best at the hundred freestyle, there's a new level
that that event is going to go to, and we
can talk about that as well.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
I certainly have my opinion on that as well.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
I read I read nine months in nine months as
soon as I saw that, and Vinnie obviously had a
kid that obviously takes time away, and so nine months,
nine months is a long time. Would just about any athlete.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
Oh yeah, great, and you know that, Yeah, you know that,
especially with your expertise and endurance.

Speaker 4 (19:01):
It is it's brutal.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
It's uh, it's it's yeah, it's it is. The mountain
is you know, we always talk about climbing the mountain,
while that mountain becomes a mountain covered in ice and snow.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Right. But sometimes with the athletes, I think back to
Missy Franklin, they come out of the gate, right and
it's like, oh my goodness, this athlete is destroying everyone.
That's the right eager destroying everyone. Five gold medal, right,
and then the next And I remember when Missy Franklin
came back after London, it was like similar a similar

(19:36):
thing where it was like what happened? Do you think
that that's particularly swimmers get a there's a burnout factor
that happens.

Speaker 5 (19:44):
Oh, you know, definitely, definitely, And I think it, uh,
I think it's and again, as you know, it's it's
going to be individual that that burnout, right, whether you know,
I'm fifty three.

Speaker 4 (19:58):
I went for a swim this morning and absolutely enjoyed it.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
Right, Like, I certainly can't swim as as much as
I used to and as fast as I used to,
But I don't think I ever experienced burnout like some
people do. But I didn't have those same pressure, So
I think it is very individual. But yes, yes, yes,
And I actually had the opportunity to do to do

(20:23):
another podcast during the and during during the games, I
was on somebody you and I both know really well.

Speaker 4 (20:29):
Rich Role.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Yeah, I was on a podcast with him and had
the pleasure of sitting down with Katie Hoff and Elizabeth Beisel.
Elizabeth I know already very well because she's from the
New England area, but Katie I had never met, and
to even hear her talk about her experiences of you know,
challenges with coming back. She was at that Olympic Games
and actually enjoyed it like a kid in the candy shop, right,

(20:53):
So it was really neat to see somebody of her level,
somebody who still I believe she still holds the American
record in the four hundred am and I'll probably get
in a little trouble that i'd say this, but you know,
when we are off camera, they both gals who are
world class four and at dimers, they're both like, hey man,
we could still final in that event.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
And to hear them, so you know, there they're challenges.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
I don't want to call it burnout, but they're you know,
to still hear them say.

Speaker 4 (21:22):
We could still do it, it's pretty neat.

Speaker 3 (21:24):
So I think everyone affected differently, but yeah, you know
it is it can be you know, it can end
people and it can even make them. And when I
meet swimmers who say, oh, I hate swimming, I'll never
swim again, it breaks my heart because I.

Speaker 4 (21:41):
Don't think.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
I don't want to have swimmers ever say that, because
that really means they went through some tough times.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, I mean that. You hear about staring at the
black line, right when you're going back and forth in
a concrete box, staring at the black line forty fifty
thousand yards a week to try to get tense of
a second faster right, thousands of a second fat life
as a racer it's not always glamorous, and you can

(22:11):
burn out just being going back and forth in the
concrete box.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Well, and I think, you know, even in your sport
and your expertise, when you look at triathlon and you
think of the hours to put in, and it's you know,
whether that triathlete comes from a swimming background or whether
they come from.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
A running background. You know, I think, and you know
this best, Tony.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
It's like, man, when you're a triathlete, you got to
spend time on the bike, you got to spend time
in the shoes, and you got to spend time in
the pool. But it's where do you divide it? And
I think it's what is your expertise? You know, what
is what is your weakness? And do you work your
weakness or do you work your strength?

Speaker 4 (22:48):
Right?

Speaker 3 (22:49):
And I know that I'm giving Tony a shout out.
I know that that's what you're certainly is guiding your
athletes towards that. And I encourage anyone who's who's listening,
you know, and you're looking for someone to work with
doctor Tony, because guide that right way.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Thanks for the plug, Thanks for the plug. But yeah,
it's and even I've seen it just as as you
get older as an amateur, you know, the counts, the
race counts, they build up and it's hard to have
that same burn. And so I sort of looked at
the you know, the Kayli Dressel situation is sort of
I was like, man, I wonder if he's just burnt

(23:26):
out from I mean, he he really destroyed the field
for many years and people are looking at him like,
oh my goodness, this guy's going to destroyed the next
two to three Olympics. And to see him come out
like that, So what were someone? I mean, we can
go on about him. He's a he's a great I'm

(23:46):
sure we'll see him come back. But what what's what
was yours? Your?

Speaker 4 (23:53):
I think what you know?

Speaker 3 (23:54):
I think we should talk about Leon Marshal, right, if
it's okay to talk about him, you know, he it's
an interesting it's an interesting story because because I'm very sore,
very fortunate and very blessed to know the story.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
And you know, this is a kid who has been coming.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
People knew and I think for the last certainly year
and a half, when everyone knew that Leon Marchand is
who he is, it's you know, well, the Olympics are
going to be in his home country and is he
going to choke? Right? While there was no choke on
the contrary, and when you have a coach like he does,

(24:31):
being Bob Bowman having been through it already, you know,
and having Michael and if you've seen any of the things,
and I'm sure we can all see it on Instagram
and on Twitter and on different things on NBC when
we see him reacting. He is probably the biggest fan
of Leon Marchand because he knows the kind of work

(24:51):
that he's doing, he knows the kind of things he's
going through every day with the coach. Because it's the
same coach that Michael had. But to see to be there,
even just telling you about it right now, I get
a little bit in the chills because to see what
he did, you know, I think the four hundred I
am on the first day, I think people knew he
would win. I think what everyone wanted was a they

(25:14):
wanted to see him break the world record, they want
to see him win.

Speaker 4 (25:16):
I think it was three things.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
They wanted to see him win so he could get
that first gold and that would sort of set the
tone for the meat, not only for the entire swimming community,
but for the French right. And I will tell you
this Tony being over there, this kid is now a legend.
Like I would go into little I actually went into
a few kiosks, you know, these little street side kiosks.

(25:38):
And the second day there's a there's a there's a
French newspaper called They Keep.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
It's kind of like our Sports Illustrated or our you know,
but it's the team, right they Keep. And he was
on the cover wearing his gold medal, and I got
as many.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
I bought as many as I could, just because I
wanted to, you know, have him sign a couple which
which I did, you know, very fortunate to get a
say more for my keepsake, right, I'm a fan of swimming,
so I'm sort of a hoarder of swimming memorabilia.

Speaker 4 (26:09):
But you know, people who didn't know swimming now know swimming.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
And you know the fans that showed up to the
pool to cheer for him who really didn't know swimming, right,
it was neat to see these people who just you know,
knew he's swimming.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Now.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
A little backstory that I'm sure you know as well
is you know he comes from a swimming family. His father,
Xavier Marsham, was a world class swimmer, was want to
medal at the World Championships way back.

Speaker 4 (26:37):
It must have been in nineteen probably going to mess
up the dates, but I believe it was in nineteen ninety.

Speaker 3 (26:44):
Well, he was an Olympian himself at Xavier Marsham in
the two hundred am was a World Championship medal winner
in the two hundred am and his mother was also
an Olympian in swimming. So the genetics are there, right,
but they certainly weren't the level he was so for
him to win that event. So that was the first
thing I went off on a tangent. I think the
second thing that not only you know, the swimming community,

(27:08):
but just the world wanted is to see him break
that world record that is his own, right. He broke
Michael Phelps's world record in the Fornidaiam last year, but
to see him and then there's sort of this mythical
four minute mark of four minute mark in the Fordidiam
that he'll he'll do it, he'll get there. You know,
he's four oh two and I think I think people

(27:32):
thought he would go under that four minutes. I even
said it. I said, oh, he's going to go three
fifty nine. He's going to do it. But that's that
as a swimming fan, it's something we aspire to see, right,
It's like you know, breaking you know that that barrier
in the mile, right running running the that first barrier
in the mile for running the four minute mile, and

(27:54):
then everyone did it, right, so once Layon breaks and
that's the kind of the next big barrier. I think
breaking these world records, and even back in the nineties
when they first went under a minute and the hundred breastroke,
we never thought and now there's been hundreds.

Speaker 4 (28:08):
Of people who've broken a minute in the hundred breastroke.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
You see it even at you know the you know,
fifteen sixteen year old swimmers here in the US doing
it at the junior and senior nationals.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
So that'll come.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
But for him to do it, and then I think,
you know, the pressure was on, right, So it was
sort of a huge sigh of relief. And I will
tell you, and I apologize Tony that I go off
on all these tangents. What was great at the Olympics
for Leon Marchand was everyone was a fan everyone, and

(28:40):
people were cheering for him from every country. And you know,
French people, it's their stereotype to be rude, right as
we are, right, so we have to remember. And myself,
as an American who lived overseas for fifteen years, can say, well,
you know, the Wch are French, the Americans are Americans.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
Right.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
It's funny because I always when French people come over
to the US and they'll speak French, you know, we'll
say in the US will say, well, you don't speak English,
and then when we go over to France, I've always
been felt a little almost embarrassed when Americans say, well,
you don't speak English.

Speaker 4 (29:23):
It's like, no, you're in France now, so you speak.
So they.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
They're not rude, what theirs are very they're very patriotic themselves.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
And when you saw.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
The the you know, when they when they played the
French national anthem, the Marseille, and uh, you know, you
hear the entire pool and people who didn't know it
just sort of, you know, doing their heads so that
it was it's a very uplifting national anthem.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
And so because oh god, yeah, I mean, yeah, I
like to see the Americans when but I also like
to see unbelievable perform missus. Yeah, and that's what I
was quoting. I've rooting for him, and I was just
I had to look look him up because if if
you're not really tuned into what's going on in World Championship,

(30:12):
apparently he's been causing a buzz at the world for
the last couple of worlds.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, and I think then throughout the
Olympics and to see every time he you know, raised people,
and then his second you know, sort of a couple
of nights later when he had the double he had
the two hundred butterfly and the two hundred breaststroke on
the same the same night.

Speaker 4 (30:33):
Now, a little insider also information.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
Is the World Aquatics had changed a little bit of
the schedule on his behalf. They actually switched some events
around that it wouldn't affect other swimmers, but would benefit
him to give him a little rest. And that's smart, right,
Like they want a spectacle, like they want to see,
so giving him a little bit more rest between those

(30:57):
two events. Now, it still it wasn't a ton of rest.
You know, he had about maybe it was forty five
minutes on that finals a night where he had the
two hundred five. Now, the two hundred butterfly was an
unexpected win. And if we will talk about that race,
you know, he's racing the world record holder, the Olympic champion,
the world champion, and the guy who broke Michael Phelps's record,

(31:17):
Christoph Meelik from Hungary, and.

Speaker 4 (31:22):
You know, and he he was. And when you saw
that race.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
And saw the first fifty, and I don't know if
you got your chance to watch it, Tony, but Christoph
Meelik in the first fifty is looking for Leon like
he's turning his head and looking for him. And that
was all I needed to say for me, you know,
being their lives, saying up it's over, like last fifty.

(31:46):
Knowing how Leayon trains and knowing the way Michael Phelps
used to train, you never want those guys to be
next to you the last fifty because they're they're going
to beat you.

Speaker 4 (31:56):
And that's exactly what happened. And in the last six,
I think, is what it was.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
Leon just stroked stroked in and and and won and
that tool went nuts everyone. And I feel really bad
for Chris Christoph because he's, uh, you know, he gets
a really you and I have a very common friend,
il D the Master, who's a who's a two hundred
butterfly herself, and she said the Hungarian media has been

(32:23):
really tough because Christoph himself after last World Championships, he
took some time off and you know, took some time
off and then got back in and you know it's
not like he sucked, right. He won the silver medal
at the Olympic Games in a very respectful time. Wasn't
the world record, but uh, you know, but but Leon
winning that when he when he.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
Won there, you knew it was.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
I would have said then four gold medals no problem,
and that was his second gold medal, and then you know,
the two hundred breaststroke was just he he he basically
let it from start to finish.

Speaker 4 (32:57):
And and you know, I wouldn't say that he's considered
a breastroker.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
He's an I am or who can swim the turner
breastroke if you look at yards, though, I think he's
swims one forty six two hundred yard breastrokes. Obviously he's
got potential to have a good two inner breast. But
he almost broke the world record. He was so close
to breaking the world record and the two under breastroke,
and then you know.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
That was yeah, and then the announcer, the announcer was like,
almost broke the world record. And I always loved listening
to rowdy gaines.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
Oh yeah no, and rowdy Rowdy goes nuts, right, And
I think everyone was a fan or is a fan.
But everyone in that pool was cheering for ley On
everyone everyone, And yeah, it seems crazy to say, but
I think even you know, when you have his coach
being American, it was very it was very worldly. You know,

(33:52):
there was really a united feel and the French, I
will say there you know, we can tell about some
of that. There was some some things about the transport
from the village to the pool that was maybe not
top par the first couple of days, and there were
some athletes who complained about the food.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
Think some of that. You know, I had been at
two thousand and four and two thousand and eight. You know,
you have to do with what you can. You know,
it's you're going into an environment where you know the
eating and the nutrition.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
If you're a top athlete, you're going to be prepared.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
You're going to have your own stuff anyway.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
You got to have your own stuff anyway and just
be prepared, and most top athletes were. So I think
a lot of that was media generated and you know,
hope I don't get myself into trouble for saying that.
But it was fine. The transportation was fine. People figured
it out and in fact, some of the top American
summers I will tell you because I witnessed it. There

(34:53):
was a few hotels right across the street from the pool.
And when I say right across the street, I mean
right across the sidewalk, like it was literally in front
of the pool, and they were just they had moved
out of the village and moved into hotel rooms. And
I'm sure USA Swimming had the budget, and I think
other countries did as well.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
I saw some South Africans and some.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Some other top swimmers who just decided to make it
a little bit more convenient for themselves to be to
be right across but everyone and then you know, Leon
Marshaun went on to win the fourth gold medal in
two unar diam. I think that was a I wouldn't
say one of his easiest races, because there was there
was a challenge, but he was just just dominant, just dominated,
and you know, if the French had had some of

(35:35):
those other relays, you know, I mean he swam breaststroke
on the bronze You know that that was also a
really neat moment because not only did he swim breastroke
on that bronze medal winning medley relay, but they put
their fifty freestyler in in the pole or in the
anchor position, Flahon Banadu, and he really hasn't swam an

(35:56):
international one hundred meter freestyle in a long time, so
if you watch the race, it wasn't I mean, he's
still split forty seven to four.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
I think, which is world class. But I think it
was a struggle.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
But I think he said, man, I gotta I gotta
help lay one win a whin a not only a
bronze medal for him, but for his country and for
his own self as well.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
So it was it was epic. Leon Marshallon was swimmer
of the meat runs down.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
So four golds in the four individual goals, won bronze
med r Right, he's twenty two years old in state.
Watch out, Yeah, so he's he's coming. How do they
do the the relay? Do they do the relays like
a master's meet where they figure out the relays on
on the on the week, or do they do they

(36:41):
figure outlas beforehand?

Speaker 4 (36:44):
Yeah? No, I think you know, every country is a
little different in what the US does.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
Is they they in the freestyle relays, both the four
by one hundred freestyle relay and the four by two
hundred freestyle relay, they take the fifth and sixth place
swimmers from the trials and then you know, more often
than not it's the third, fourth, fifth and sixth place
swimmers who will swim the prelims qualify for the final,

(37:09):
and then they'll put the top swimmers on that. Again,
that's more or less how they do it. You know,
the other teams like France or or the Germans or
even the South Africans who I know, and even the Swiss,
right is sometimes it's just who's.

Speaker 4 (37:24):
Hot, right, and they put you on the relay, and they.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Have that variability to coaches have a variability to say,
you know what, let's put so and so in instead of.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Right, right, Yeah, So that's how they do it. And
so yeah, you know, there's a lot of things. And
even the mixed relay that was right, that was the
second time we saw the.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Mix Those are always fun.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
Yeah, and and you know, even seeing Caleb swim the
prelims of that relay and then they did a different
combination to win the gold in the final using I
think it was Tory Husk who was the American who
was pretty hot at that. That means good for her.
I mean, that's someone that I don't think we talked
about a lot. I don't think the media talked about
a lot. And I have to give a shout out

(38:05):
to her coach Greg meehan because there are a lot
of swimmers who there was a little bit of an
exodus from Stanford, but Tory stayed, stayed the course and
stayed with Greg. And you know, she she walked out
the Olympic champion in the hundred butterflies, so yeah, and
silver in the fifth in the hundred free. So and
then I think she won a few more medals in

(38:25):
in the relays. So she she she walked away with
four or five Olympic medals Tory husks, so.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah, and then she was she was incredible. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah,
gold gold in the hundred butterfly and then two golds
in the in the medleys, in the mixed medley and
right so and then yeah, the mixed medley is always
fun for the listeners who don't know. That's when they

(38:52):
put the the men and women together.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
Right, so two men, two women, doesn't matter who swims
what stroke. So the normally what the majority of people
will do in countries is they'll put the men on
the short access strokes, so breastroke and butterfly, and they'll
put women on the long access strokes.

Speaker 4 (39:11):
But it's not always the case. It's kind of a
game of.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
Numbers and where your strengths are and looking where the
strengths and weaknesses are of the other countries. Yeah, so
I know in the prelims we did it a little
bit different from in the final. But yeah, you know,
having you know, having a guy like Ryan Murphy and
backstroke is is never a bad thing because he's he's

(39:35):
he's Ryan Murphy and multiple time Olympian, multiple medal winner,
you know, former world record holders. So you know, having
Ryan Murphy is a is not a bad thing to have.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Well, that's interesting because there's a lot of complexities with relay.
Usually you want to put the fastest first and last,
so should we go next?

Speaker 3 (39:54):
So well, you know, and then I think, you know,
I think we would be mistaken to not talk about
Katie the decky. I think Katie is you know, it's
kind of the one you can always count on. I
think as she gets a little you know, it's crazy
to think that now this was her let's see twelve,
so her fourth Olympic Games, right, and she's the most
decorated female swimmer, you know, American female swimmer, if not

(40:18):
the most decorated female swimmer. I don't have those statistics
in front of me, but you know, the foreigner freestyle
is sort of you know, it's a short race for her, right,
It's not just this Olympics where there's been two swimmers
now who sort of started to push her a little bit.
I mean, she was the one to be over the last,

(40:39):
you know, certainly twenty sixteen and leading into Tokyo, but
there's been sort of two new swimmers, one being already
on a Titmis from Australia and then Summer Macintosh from
Canada who trains in the US. She trains down in
Florida with Sarasota Sharks. You know, they're both young and eager.

Speaker 4 (40:56):
But I think the watching in.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
Person what I like to do, and you know, filling
your listeners in is I kind of like to watch
the not just the race, right, watch the warm ups,
watch the warm downs, watch the body language on the
pool deck. And there really seems to be a very
amicable competition between those young ladies. And they're very different.

(41:19):
But you know, I think Titmus is the queen. She's
a world record holder, so she is the queen of
that distance right now, and there's a lot of respect
and I think, you know, you can't count Katie out
because she's there.

Speaker 4 (41:30):
She's you know, she's.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
Going to be there right, and if you make a
mistake or you don't pace it right, she'll she'll win
that event. At any day of the week, she can
win that event. But I think in the eight hundred
and fifteen hundred, she's just too dominant, and that showed,
you know, I think they pushed her. Yeah, Katie the decky. Sorry,
so Katie is you know, and she she won the
eight hundred, and she won the fifteen.

Speaker 4 (41:53):
She won the fifteen hundred.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
It was her first gold of the meat and then
the last, you know, a couple of days was where
she had the eight hundred freestyle and she won that
as well, and you know, Titmas was there, she swam it.

Speaker 4 (42:05):
But I think Katie showed just I think she still.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
Controls that race, both physically, physiologically and I think psychologically.

Speaker 4 (42:15):
I think it's just I think they're like, I can't
I can't beat Katie yet. So yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Know, was really I mean they seemed like they were
really almost like best friends talking.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
To Yeah, very very amicable, a ton of respect, and
I think that's what shows and really showed this Olympics
more than anything. There was such a good camaraderie between
all the athletes from all of the different countries. You know,
we had the famous finger wag from Lily King at
the last Olympics boards, one of the Russian breaststrokers. Not

(42:50):
to go into that, you know, I think so so Katie.
And then I think to swims that you know, and
apologies that I keep going on and on, but I
think two real distinct swims that were very important. One
was Bobby Fink in the fifteen hundred on the last day.
You know, I'm going to read something that that well,

(43:12):
you'll be happy with. So a colleague of my John
Doolittle is his name, His son swam with with Bobby
Fink down at Saint Petersburg Aquatics.

Speaker 4 (43:23):
Okay, with a coach named Fred Lewis. So he is
the coach of Bobby Fink.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
Now Bobby of course froms at at Florida with Anthony
Nesty and next next to Katie Leadecki. But my colleague
John the little sent Fred a little, a little you know,
congratulations email and you know, won't go into the details
of it, just to protect some of the nice private
things he wrote, but basically said, you know, coach list
like incredible job. You know, you've done so much for

(43:51):
so many people, and you know amazing And this is
exactly I'm going to read it verbatim. What this was
the day after fifteen hundred. So coach Lewis said, yep,
old school, make them hurt and see who wants it most.
So what I know about that swim is Bobby. Bobby's known,

(44:12):
as you know, to finish really hard the last fifty
and there's even been some memes about you know, it's
called getting thinked at the end of a race. Well,
Bobby decided to kind of get in some of their
heads and go out fast the first hundred. You kind
of see who was there and from what I know,
and if you listen to anything online, you know, Bobby
turned at the hundred and was in the lead and

(44:35):
he said, all right, well let's let's let's see what
Let's see what can happen. And then when they were
showing it up on the board and I was again
I was there in the pool and they had the
line on the board right and you could see that
the whole crowd started to everyone got behind Bobby from
every country to break this world record.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
Because the world.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
Record there is some controversy about the world record, that
it was set by the Chinese distance swimmer and that
you know who has served I believe, an eight year
suspension for a doping violation. So you know, yeah Sunyang,
you know, without pointing any fingers, you know, I try

(45:19):
to believe in our doping system that when people.

Speaker 4 (45:23):
Are caught, they're caught.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
I won't go into what my feelings are, but yeah,
I wanted to see that record go down and be
because I know how Bobby trains and I know the
kind of person he is, and.

Speaker 4 (45:38):
So when the.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Line started to catch up to Bobby at the end,
I was like, oh, man, I don't want all this,
the last fourteen minutes of cheering and you know, going
nuts for everyone to just kind of So when he
broke the world record, and you know, again as Leon
had the entire pool and the entire swimming community behind him,
I believe it was the same case. Everyone wanted Bobby
think to break that that world record and to win it,

(46:01):
and he did. So that was a real and it
was the only individual gold for Team USA. Right, we'll
talk about that and what Michael Phelps said as well,
But I think that was one incredible individual highlight, and
then I think the men's hundred freestyle, you know it's
Chinese individual going forty six to four.

Speaker 4 (46:20):
It's it's it's unfathomable for me.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
And what I mean by that is I've I've been
in watching world class swimming for a long time and
where I'm still challenged with thinking and watching. And I'm
not making any accusations, but to watch an individual swim
make a bunch of world class swimmers look like age groupers,

(46:46):
That's where it's it's a real challenge. You know, you
had you had some of the best sprinters in the
world in that hundred freestyle, some of the fastest guys ever, right,
and they looked like chumps. Yeah next to this guy.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
So what's your thought because there's been a lot of
well yeah, well you know about the doping and potential
doping and things.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
Here's what I challenge, uh this this this chy swimmer,
I challenge here's my challenge to him. And if anyone
gets this recording or Tony's podcast, I'm sure he's listened
to us, right Tony Is. I challenge him to share
with us how he trains, what does he do with
his dry land training. What does he do with his

(47:32):
in water training, you know, and if if they want
us to start to appreciate what they've done to go
forty six four, I would love to see it, because
I'm super interested.

Speaker 4 (47:42):
I would love to see you know, if you.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
Look at him physically, you know, I don't see a
Caleb Dressel or some of the Austrians or even like
a flow amenity. These guys are they are Adonisi's right.
He I mean there's you know, I'm not next to me, right.
He certainly more fit, but he's not physically there's It's
very interesting how he swims so fast. So I think

(48:08):
technically I've broken it down and I've watched some slow
motion the last twenty five meters he's he just seems
to pull ahead, and that's where he makes these incredible
swimmers look not as not as good. So I would
love to know what they're doing to train that last
twenty five both on land and in the water. So

(48:28):
I beg with anyone working with them to share with us,
give us some insight into what he's doing to be
able to swim that, because forty six four will be
hard to bet that's going to be are there people
who can do it?

Speaker 4 (48:41):
I believe there are.

Speaker 3 (48:42):
I believe the Romanian kid David Popovich is talented enough
to do it.

Speaker 4 (48:48):
I think, you know, there's some up and comings.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
I think our Americans with Jack Alexi and even the
young kid Chris, I'll butcher his last name from Notre Dame,
I think they're talented enough. And uh, you know, I
listened to Nathan Adrian talk about it. I was sitting
with Colin Jones, the American sprinter as that was going,
and you know, just seeing those guys be almost in

(49:12):
shock of this time. So I think we're all still
digesting it. But that's my challenge. So you asked me
to express what I think. I think share with us
what you're doing, because I'm quite curious and interested to
know what they're doing.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
He's twenty years old, he's sixty three, Pond, I'm going
to butcher zon lie.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Right, Yeah, yeah, and yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Yeah. There's a big thing with what they call now
fossilized records. Right like with Sun Yang, people thought that
it was a fossilized record, which a record that was
achieved through performance enhancement, and as a result, it becomes
fossilized nobody can get I'm close to it right.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
Well, and you know, Bob, like just like Bobby thinks coach,
you know, old school right like he And I'll tell you,
I know how Bobby, Bobby Fink is a is a
is a one percent of a one percenter right how
he trains.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
He's just genetically.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
Superior to to take that kind of training daily and
then recover from it. And you know so and I
know that Bobby Fink would would easily put out that
in any in any means possible, the kind of training
he does, and people look at it, go, that's that's nuts,
that's crazy, that crazy crazy in a good way. So
but it was, it was, it was there, it happened,

(50:36):
you know, and and you know it was it was
just tony. It was just an insane swim meet to
be a part of and to watch and so humbled
that I got to see it in the French. As
far as organizing the swim meet putting on a show,
I mean every day the final started with the lights
and they would have like monet style pictures on the pool,

(51:00):
in the water.

Speaker 4 (51:01):
It was just it was it was epic, just epic.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Well, I want to ask you some questions about the
open water and all the yeah yeah river. But what
do you make of Michael Phelps's critique that I read
that he had some critique that the well, what was
his critic?

Speaker 4 (51:20):
I think I think you're exactly right.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
I think you know, and I think that I think
that USA Swimming should listen to him. I think he
stayed politically correct, but still got his point across.

Speaker 6 (51:31):
For me, one of the things that I've always said
over the last couple of years is the rest of
the world is catching up, right, you know. I think
a lot of the things that we've done as a
as a country for so long, the other people are
catching up. They're doing the same thing right, So hopefully
we're able to make that transition.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Leading into twenty twenty.

Speaker 6 (51:51):
Eight, For me as a whole, I was pretty disappointed
to see the US swimming swimming results. I'll say there
were a few standout swims and those who have to recognize,
you know, Bobby think last night swimming that was unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (52:07):
One.

Speaker 6 (52:07):
I mean I've chills right now talking about it. That
was one of the greatest swims in the Olympics in
my opinion. Being able to break that world record in
the matter that he did it. It's taking it out,
challenging the other guys just to make a move. He
was prepared. Hopefully the other athletes are more prepared going
to twenty eight.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
And I think, you know, I think, I'm sure there's
a few people in USA Swimming are like, oh, Michael,
why do you have to say that? But I think
he's critical and I think he's you know, it's a
call to arms for USA swimming. In four years in
Los Angeles, in our home country, we got tony one
gold medal individually for men and the last time, you know,
or at least two Olympics ago. I mean, Michael retired

(52:46):
after twenty sixteen, but you know he did that eight
times over in two thousand and eight. So I think
it's merited. I think it's legit. I think it's and
I know it's going to be crazy to say that.
I would not be surprised if he even is still
like today, what are we whatever the date is today

(53:09):
considering a comeback right because.

Speaker 4 (53:11):
I know I know he knows he could. He could,
he could win the two hundred.

Speaker 3 (53:14):
I am he could push because he knows exactly how
Leon Marshaun Ticks and Michael Phelps is Michael Phelps.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
If there's anyone who could do it and come back, now,
will he come back?

Speaker 3 (53:25):
That would be amazing and we would all we would
all love it right to see him come back and
just train for one event. And you know, even if
he won a bronze medal, you know, for for me,
it wouldn't be a failure. It would be a win.
I'm sure for him it would be a failure to
not win. But I think even a couple realize. But
I think what he's saying is we need to We

(53:47):
are not the best country in swimming anymore. You know,
certainly our our women were fantastic, right our American women
with Katie and and Reagan Smith and Katherine Berkoff and
Tory has Can even you know Lily King, who's still there.
You know, the list goes on, and I apologize for
any names I didn't mention, but our American women were dominant.

(54:08):
But our American men we were subpar. And he use
a different word that I would use with you off
the off the air, but we were subpar well.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
The swimming and hood. And the interesting thing is all
of Michael Phelps records. You'll correct me if I'm wrong,
keep me honest. But all of Mike Michael Phelps records
are broken.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Right, Uh yeah, yes, so they He still holds some
American records and maybe maybe a short course world but yeah,
his long course world records are are are now. Interesting
is the two hundred I am which every everyone thought
Leon is going to break this one. It just goes

(54:49):
to show with all of the mistakes he made and
all of the silly things he did, Ryan Lochtey, he
is still the world record holder in the two hundred
IM one fifty four zero zero. It's an easy record
to remember. It's not Michael Phopps. It is Ryan Lockety.
So you know, whudos to him, hats off to him.
He's probably you know, I love the guy and again

(55:12):
humble to know him. And you know he's probably sitting
there in his garage. I saw, I see me post
stuff all the time. He's working out with his son,
and you know he's still doing some clinics and he's
just Ryan Lockety. He is a he is a barrel
of laughs. And uh but in a good way. Right then,
that guy too, he trained his ass off. Pardon my language.
And you know one P fifty four zero zero, if

(55:34):
Leon Marsham can't break, it means it's a good record.
So you know, we'll have to look towards the next
World Championships. I'm sure that record will fall sooner than later.
But yeah, so Michael, Philip Phelps's records are gone.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
But still, well that just that the the entire body
of swimming performance is rising, if that's.

Speaker 4 (55:53):
True for sure, for sure and without the suits right
like this and are gone.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
So so yeah, so we'll we'll see where it goes.
But I I I applaud Michael for making that comment
because he's the only one in the world who can
do it. Just knowing some of the ins and outs
of USA swimming, it's a it's a it's a very
tough group of people who are very strong willed. But
I think they needed to have someone say, hey, we

(56:21):
need to we're not we need to wake up and
be ready.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
And he made the statement, So yay, Michael.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Yeah, all right, what was some of the things he
saw on open water swimming? Wow, it was a scene
river as polluted as as people claimed it was.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
No, it wasn't any and you know, you know, Tom
I've been very involved in open water and I sit
on the board of directors of the World Swimming Coaches Association,
and we've now we have a new organization, which once
was WOWSA is now wowsif we have World Open Water
Swimming Federation. Uh So we were there and we were

(57:01):
involved and talking with a lot of the movers and shakers. Really,
this sounds a real easy way to say it is
if if you smell the water, it's probably something's up.
And this water was. You know, they spent what I
think it was one point five billion. I don't know
if it was euros or US dollars to clean it up.

(57:24):
They were testing it every day, several times a day
for different levels. But I think just again for our audience,
it was more the e COLI was And what I
will tell you is that what people then understand is
it wasn't the water right there on the swimming course.
A lot of it had to do with where the
water comes from, in an area called Dijon, and they

(57:46):
were having some heavy rains there. So when the rains
were coming down, it's two or three days later. So
if people that watched the opening ceremonies saw the rain.
It wasn't that rain that was the problem. It was
the problem with the rain that was happening, you know,
kilometers and kilometers away. So every day they were testing,
and you know, you had a lot of involved people

(58:06):
just kind of giving you some insider info. You had
the you know, the World Trathlon Association who was dealing
with the IOC and the Paris Olympic Committee. So there
was a lot of people and a lot of opinions.
But really what was what I was witnessed to was

(58:27):
more than not downplaying the water quality, right, It was
the current in the water and that was a real issue.
And if anyone followed me on Instagram, you can even
go on my Instagram and see this current when they
would turn, So they were swimming down down river, so
with the current and then they would turn, they would

(58:49):
have about a twenty five thirty meter side current and
they would have to navigate that and then swim upriver upcurrent. Well,
it was the current that was really more of an
issue for these swimmers, and it was awesome, just awesome.
So I know with the triathlon with the individual men

(59:11):
and individual women, you saw it. But then even with
the sprint that was just that was incredible to watch
the sprint triathlon. And then you know, several days later
what became an issue is you went from the World
Triathlon officials to now World Aquatics officials.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
So there was a whole.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
New group of minds that were like, okay, is safe
what's the water quality? So you know a lot of
people that had a lot of decisions and a really
good friend of mine, a very well respected person in
the in World Aquatics, Sid Cassidy, who's a coach down
in Florida. He runs Saint Andrews, which is a private
school and a very very successful swim team.

Speaker 4 (59:50):
He's been a FENA and now World.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
Aquatics because they've changed the name recently, and you know
a lot of pressure like what we want to keep
our athletes safe? And that was that was really the key,
not only safe with the water quality, but safe with
the current because this was the first time ever. If
you look at other Olympic ten k's, the first one
being in Beijing when it was basically just in the

(01:00:13):
rowing pond, right, no marine life, no current, flat, you know,
there's weather, but this was dicey. And I say that
with a smile because it was it was real open
water and you saw I mean both the men and women.
The women, you know, Sharon from the Netherlands, you know,

(01:00:34):
already an Olympic champion, so for her to win was
no surprise. But she clearly was the most experienced swimmer
on that course. And then the next day with the men,
you know, again you saw some of the most experienced
open water swimmers. And the Hungarian kid, I apologize again
that I don't know his name, but.

Speaker 4 (01:00:53):
Just watching it every day and.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
Even I can send you, Tony some of the videos
from the training runs, just for you to see. As
a experienced trathlon coach, tratholete yourself just to see van.

Speaker 4 (01:01:07):
Wow, that would have been fun.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
It's like swimming in a big flume where you're swimming
down the flume and then across the flume and then
up the flume, and then you know there was the
water quality. I think we've all seen that. There are
some people who've said that they've had some gi gastro
and testinal issues after now some have been opened that

(01:01:29):
openly said that they were already previously ill.

Speaker 4 (01:01:33):
But I think the majority.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Of the swimmers were fine, and in fact, my colleague
and I, Stephen Munatonas, who's one of the world's leading
experts on open water swimming. We were talking to some
of the firefighters who were involved with some of the
not only the water testing for quality, and they actually,
I'll give you an actual quote from one of them,
just they gave me in French was you have probably

(01:01:56):
more of a chance of getting sick in the metro
in Paris than getting sick at that particular moment. And
now what we're hopeful for, and again being involved with
some of the organizations that I'm very humbled, we want
to see that the Parisians continue to keep water quality
and the cleanliness of the sin so that people can

(01:02:18):
swim in it again, you know. And and and I'm
very humbled to know a gentleman named Lewis Pugh who's
a huge He actually is an ocean ambassador for the
United Nations. And about two three months ago he swam
down the Hudson from sort the source of the Hudson
River to the Statue of Liberty, showing that the Hudson
River is swimmable again. And he put out a little

(01:02:42):
post on his social media the day after the Paris
ten k staying, you know, congratulations Paris, but hey, let's
keep it going.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
So we had the same thing for many years in Boston,
and yeah, kind of clean up our river, Charles River,
and it's swimmable, right, Yeah you swim in it. Yeah,
I swim it. And yeah, like you're saying, open water
man triathletes, we swim in some We're swimming just about
every body of water. And I've never seen many people

(01:03:14):
get get sick from swimming open one.

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
Well, you know what, I think it's individual.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
I think it depends on you know, do they have
a pre existing condition that they didn't know about.

Speaker 4 (01:03:24):
Are they a little bit more sensitive to it than others?

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
You know, recently I did a swim with this really,
really incredible individual named Ross Edgeley who swam down the
Yukon and you know, he did the world it's it now.
I can actually announce that it will be a Guinness
World Record for the longest river swim ever. It was
five hundred and twelve kilometers a little over three hundred miles.

Speaker 4 (01:03:48):
He did it in fifty two hours.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
The reason I'm sharing it with you because we were
on the boats with these guys who live on the.

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
Yukon and they're just dipping there.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
You know, the water is completely cloudy, but it's glacier
glacial water, so it's very clean. But if I drank
it tony, I'd get sick, right because I'm just not
used to it. And these guys are like chugging it
like like a smoothie.

Speaker 4 (01:04:09):
And then I come on, you know, and then you know,
I'm the whimpee kid for Boston.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
I have to filter the water to drink it, just
because my gi track is a little bit more sensitive.
But you know, so that's what it depends. But it
was an epic open water. I think a lot of
the hooplah that you heard about the water cleanliness. I mean,
the one point five billion dollars that they spent went
well into that. They wouldn't have been able to do

(01:04:34):
this swim there. Unfortunately, it was. You know, I encourage
anyone who didn't see it to go on Peacock or
whatever you can to find some of the footage, or
go on my Instagram swim for Chris and you can
see some of the footage of just it was.

Speaker 4 (01:04:48):
It was epic, just epic.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Christoph off Ski, yes.

Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
Oh man, what a stud super smart the way he
did that race because he had some very good swimmer
and the way he did it, you know, he was
in the lead in the beginning and then he kind
of led a few other swimmers in Italian and then
you know for him and his teammate to get first
and third, I think the Hungarians were first and third.
Just showed you the strength of Hungarian swimming also with

(01:05:18):
that event, So yeah, it was it was awesome, just awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
He contributed a time of one fifty fifty two that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
Is yeah, that's fat and again with the current. It's
kind of hard to say, you know what what what
does that time mean? But I think you know, for
a ten k with current against current, Yeah, just awesome,
just so awesome, incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
All right, let's finish up talking about katsu.

Speaker 4 (01:05:46):
Yeah, so what do you want? What can I tell you? So?

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
How are how are how are swimmers using it for
performance and or recovery? And is it gaining traction?

Speaker 4 (01:05:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
It is, so tell people what it is.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
Yeah, So katsu is some people might mistake it for
what's called BFR blood flow restriction. We like to think
of ourselves more as blood flow optimization. So we use
pneumatic bands that you either place on your upper arm
or your upper leg.

Speaker 4 (01:06:17):
We never do all four limbs at the same time.

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):
And really it's a pretty simple and what we say
is sort of one of our catchphrases is it's it's
it's simplely profound, but profoundly simple. And what I mean
by that is it's really just these pneumatic bands that
inflate with air and you modify the venus return of

(01:06:41):
blood in your limb. So what you'll see is when
you're wearing the band on your arm or on your leg,
you'll actually start to see a lot of coloration. So
people mistake it for like a blood pressure cuff, and
in fact it's the opposite. Rather than including the blood
flow to the limb, we actually enhance the blood flow
by engorging the tissue distal to the band. So what
I mean by distal is when you have it on

(01:07:01):
your arm, you wear it on your upper arm right
above the triceps and bicep and all the way down
to your fingertips, you're engorging all of those microcapularies with blood.
And on the leg that's the same thing. Think of
a diaper harness for rock climbing. That's about the location
you wear it, and it pols blood in your entire
leg all the way down to your toes or we
have a lot of microcacapilaries. And what happens is the

(01:07:25):
body responds by thinking that there's stress. So if you
put any mechanical tension like swimming or body squats, if
you're on land, if you're putting any tension or stress,
it creates like a hypoxic environment. So we think about lactate. Right,
So lactate we now know and sports science is a fuel.

(01:07:45):
So it's kind of the ultimate lactate tolerance. So how
are swimmers using it? So swimmers use it two ways.
We can talk about rehabilitation, but won't bore your listeners
with that. So on the performance side, you inflict the
bands if you have them on your arms with air,
you detach the air hoses and you can go for
a swim. So if I said, hey, Tony, I want

(01:08:07):
you to do eight fifties, I want you to descend
the first four wearing the arm band, excuse me. I
want you to descend the first four, and then I
want you to hold race pace for the second four.
You would probably get to number five or six. Ago, Chris,
that's how I feel at the end of my race,
and I would say, exactly right, You've created so much
lactate in your tissue without doing a two hour workout.

Speaker 4 (01:08:30):
So it's kind of this really.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
Incredible way to get to muscle fatigue without getting to
muscle fatigue, if that makes sense. So swimmers are using it,
and not only sprinters but distant swimmers. So there's a
lot of swim coaches. Now there's a coach at Texas
A and M who's now at South Carolina. His name

(01:08:55):
is Jason Sergio Lopez who's at Virginia Tech. These are
two of the more prominent coaches who are using it
and swimming. Lots of coaches with individuals, but those are
probably the biggest programs that are using it. And then
I'm teaching a lot of people. But then on the
recovery side, which is really what we're seeing, a lot

(01:09:17):
of swimmers use it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:17):
It's just as a recovery tool.

Speaker 3 (01:09:19):
When we think about recovery, there's so many modalities we
can talk about cold, right, So whether it's an ice
path or even an ice pack, why do we use cold.

Speaker 4 (01:09:29):
We use it to stimulate circulation. We think about percussion, right,
or massage, so these.

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
Are you know everyone as the Thera gun or whateverever
model you have that's percussion or massage. Those again are
more of a local to stimulate blood flow. Right now,
with Katsu, it's very similar to my if you've seen
the Norma tech boots or the recovery pump, those also,
those are more for lymphatic. What we're doing is just

(01:09:57):
inflate and so there's an inflation of the band and
then it deflates. It inflates and it deflates and it
woul was called it the cycle mode, the Katsu cycle,
and what that does is it actually engorges your limb
and then when it releases, you almost feel this flush
and so it's kind of grabbing all of that metabolic
waste and when it releases and your heart pumps, it's

(01:10:21):
just pumping it throughout the body and it's just really
stimulating and enhancing the recovery of any metabolic waste from exercise.
So if you're at a swim meet or a trathlon
and you have a prelimb and final session, well we
have protocols to help people to put them on and
you really just sit there and you can be on

(01:10:42):
your phone, you can be talking. So it's a really
convenient and really easy to carry because it's very small.
So as far as taking it to swim meets or
competitions or even just to a training session is pretty easy.

Speaker 4 (01:10:56):
That's kind of it in a nutshell.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Okay, I'm going to go try to see if I
can get a little bit more time with this. I
would love to try it. Get some Matthew.

Speaker 3 (01:11:06):
Yeah, we got to get together, right, You and I
got to get together because even though we live in
the same town, we're.

Speaker 4 (01:11:13):
Always so busy. So I know, I know this is
a motivation for us to see each other again.

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
Yes, so let's do that, all right. This was a
great I was like, man, I got I got to
get a hold of Chris to see what's going on
in Paris, and so this was a.

Speaker 3 (01:11:26):
Great Hopefully I had a couple of interesting anecdotal stories there.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely. So you can find him on Instagram.
Swim for Chris, check out his instagram.

Speaker 3 (01:11:43):
I'll be doing it more. And also a little a
little plug that I probably you don't know either. Tony
is I'm so a very good friend of mine is
going to be the head coach at Boston College. Derek Torres,
five time Olympian, twelve Olympic medals. She's the new head coach. Way, yeah, yeah,
she's going to be there, and she has convinced me.

Speaker 4 (01:12:05):
That's all I'll say it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
And even I'm going to be her volunteer assistant coach
this coming season. So looking forward to working with the
Boston College athletes, you know, but it's a volunteer job.
So I'm I'm you know, my, my, I'm wearing a
lot of hats right now, but really excited to help
her and she's going to be amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
People have the you're talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
So actually, Tony, what we need to do is a
podcast with Darra and I'm going to.

Speaker 4 (01:12:35):
Help you set that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
I love that, man.

Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
Yeah, it's gonna be awesome. So look forward to watch
Boston College from me. We're going to go, go, go go.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
Wow, you know it, Boston College, Brad all the way.

Speaker 4 (01:12:47):
Yeah, okay, yeah that podcast? Yeah sure? Cool?

Speaker 2 (01:12:55):
All right, Chris, thanks you did it again?

Speaker 4 (01:12:58):
Cool, all right, see you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
Well Leah, Well we'll do another one before the next
Olympics before yeah cool.

Speaker 4 (01:13:05):
Col right, all right right on, thank you, Tony.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
Check them out on Instagram at swim for Chris that
swim the number four. Chris Link in the show notes,
I'm going through some major Olympics withdrawal. You know, I
like the first week. I think undoubtedly now the first
week is my favorite. The astonishing come from behind finishes,

(01:13:35):
the separation between first, second, third, fourth, fifth by tenths
of seconds, thousands of seconds. You can't even see who
wins with the naked eye when those swimmers hit the
wall and turn around and pull their goggles up and

(01:13:57):
see their place and their reaction, and it's just amazing
to see the beautiful underwater shots of the swimmers. And
I hope many of the swimmers that are listening and
the triathletes that are listening take a look at some
of those swim strokes and those kicks and those turns,

(01:14:19):
and the power, the grace, the body position, the body alignment.
It's a spectacle to behold. So after this podcast, you'll
know who to watch out for. I'm going to continue
to look out and see what Caleb Dressel is doing,
Kata Ladecci, Reagan Smith, and some of the new people

(01:14:42):
that we saw come on the scene. Bobby Fink unbelievable
fifteen hundred meter swimmer world record holder Leo Marshon of
course broke the last of Michael Phelps individual long course
world records last year, and of course Tory Husk. She

(01:15:07):
was another one that came on the scene in Paris
that undoubtedly is going to have an unbelievable career. And
dare I say, could it be possible? Could it be
possible that Michael Phelps comes back and swims to two

(01:15:28):
hundred AM and maybe a relay in la I don't know,
We'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
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EP. 60: Paris Olympics Swimming Review w/Coach Chris Morgan

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