November 11, 2025 • 33 mins
In today’s episode of The Jon Sanchez Show, we unpack one of the biggest stories shaping real estate in 2025 — the “golden handcuffs” of ultra-low mortgage rates.
Millions of homeowners are staying put, creating a gridlock that’s keeping the housing market frozen. Jon and the team explore how this limited inventory continues to drive home prices higher and what these trends could mean for buyers, sellers, and long-term investors alike.
The discussion also connects to broader financial planning considerations, including how shifts in housing dynamics may influence retirement planning, investment strategy, and wealth management decisions in Reno and beyond.
👉 Watch this episode on YouTube: www.youtube.com/@thejonsanchezshow
👉 To learn more about retirement planning and wealth management in Reno, visit: sanchezgaunt.com
Compliance Disclosure: This program is for informational purposes only and should not be considered investment, tax, or legal advice. The views expressed are those of the participants and may not reflect the views of Sanchez Gaunt Capital Management. Investing involves risk, including the possible loss of principal. Past performance is not indicative of future results. Always consult with a qualified financial professional regarding your individual situation before making financial decisions.
Millions of homeowners are staying put, creating a gridlock that’s keeping the housing market frozen. Jon and the team explore how this limited inventory continues to drive home prices higher and what these trends could mean for buyers, sellers, and long-term investors alike.
The discussion also connects to broader financial planning considerations, including how shifts in housing dynamics may influence retirement planning, investment strategy, and wealth management decisions in Reno and beyond.
👉 Watch this episode on YouTube: www.youtube.com/@thejonsanchezshow
👉 To learn more about retirement planning and wealth management in Reno, visit: sanchezgaunt.com
Compliance Disclosure: This program is for informational purposes only and should not be considered investment, tax, or legal advice. The views expressed are those of the participants and may not reflect the views of Sanchez Gaunt Capital Management. Investing involves risk, including the possible loss of principal. Past performance is not indicative of future results. Always consult with a qualified financial professional regarding your individual situation before making financial decisions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Good Tuesday afternoon to you.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome to the John Sanchez Show one News Talk seven
eighty k which it's a pleasure to be with you
and a pleasure to be.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
With my co host.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Glad to have everybody on border around the horn. We
shall travel. Dwight Mollart Highlands Mortgage. How you doing, my
friend looking fine? And deviniir is always am.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I am doing fantastic. It's a pleasure to be with
you guys too, every time. I love Tuesday Thursdays.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You and me both, brother, you and me both and folks.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
If you could see it, he looks like an absolute
radio star right now, Corey Edge of Edge Reality, sitting
in his beautiful truck, headphones on microphone right there, able
to do the show no matter where we go.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
That's the new technology. We have.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
You looking sharp, buddy, You're looking sharp. You look like
a busy real estate broker sitting out there.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (00:44):
I told Dwight, this microphone could fall at any point.
So if it if it ends up looking at the ceiling,
because I have the camera, the camera, there's there's.
Speaker 6 (00:53):
People, yes, the camera to there's people out here staring
at me.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
They probably I can imagine.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah, they're gonna think you're, you know, ice agent or
something you know doing.
Speaker 7 (01:07):
He's going to be in a riot here pretty soon.
Speaker 6 (01:11):
I don't want to give anything away, but don't say
that too low.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Based on where I am, based on where you are, Yes,
it could be.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
That's to say they like to call it football. You're
one of those.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Stadiums I'm sitting.
Speaker 6 (01:22):
I'm actually sitting outside the Highland Mortgage offices. Dwightson.
Speaker 7 (01:30):
That's a good one.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
And his license number is yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Oh I goes, I hear you. Well.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Before we get started on a on a more serious note,
we want to take this opportunity, as we always do
on Veterans Day, and take this moment and say thank.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You from the bottom.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Guy, make a little statement here, but thank you from
the bottom of my heart for everything that you veterans
do for this great nation of ours. If it were
not for you, we would not have this great nation.
And I always like to include the family because the
family obviously sacrifices so very much. My daughter's boyfriend has
just joined the Marines. A few about that, I guess
(02:06):
about three weeks ago. He's at Camp Pendleton going through
boot camp. So they're pretty serious. So maybe he'll someday
be a son in law. I don't know, but uh again,
thank you to all of you for your sacrifices and
and your lives and everything else that. Uh yeah, I
said without you, we would we would not be where
we are in this country.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Dwight, Yeah, I echo everything you're saying. And you know, John,
we always talked about it. Freedom is not free. You know,
somebody pays a price, some family member, and uh yeah,
it's a it's a huge honor to uh be part of,
you know, the American way in the process. And I
too think all the all the veterans and their families.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
You've got to include their families absolutely, of course.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
Yeah, I echo that to freedom is not free, and
it's unfortunate because I think, at least my own case,
like you don't start appreciating anymore until you get older
and I start think about my grandfather fund World War Two.
My dad was in the military. I mean, we don't
have a super military family, but definitely a lot of
background there, and you don't you don't really appreciate it
until you start seeing, feeling it, or knowing that, hey,
(03:09):
not every country has what we have, they're not blessed
to have. No one does the things we do. Yeah,
and we have them because of the military. So yeah,
thank you to everybody.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Absolutely, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
All Right, Well, well that said, let me tell you
what we have lined up for you. We're going to
recap today's market activity and what a day it was.
What kind of day was it today, Dwight Millard.
Speaker 7 (03:28):
John, I love it? Another record setting day.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
There you go, at least on one of the major averages,
the Dow Jones Industrial Average. So I want to give you
the details behind today's market activity. Was a great day
to day, to say the least, a big, big return numbers.
And we're going to get into our real estate topic.
You know, folks, when we start talking about the real
estate side of things, there's a there's a hidden force, right.
We talk all the time about once a month we
(03:52):
give you the local real estate data and so on
and so forth, and the rest of the month we're
always talking with Corey and Dwight about this this hidden
force right now that's going on, this hidden force that's
keeping essentially the housing market.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Frozen, right, And what it really boils.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Down to is you've got millions and millions of homeowners
in this country with trillions, literally trillions of dollars of
home equity, but they've got an ultral little mortgage, right
that three four percent mortgage and they don't want to move.
Then what we basically can say is they've got the
golden handcuffs on them. And what that does then is
(04:29):
if they don't move, they don't go move up to
the next house or downsize or something. There's no activity,
So then our inventory gets locked up. So what is
this golden handcuff meaning the low mortgage rate that so
many people again are hesitant to sell because they don't
want to go from as Dowight will say, I'm going
to guess north of six percent is where we've been hovering.
They're not going to go from a three or four
(04:50):
percent mortgage to that six percent plus mortgage and increase
their payments. They just don't want to do that at
this point. So we're in this bottleneck as we have
been for quite some time now. But again we need
to talk about what's going on, this hidden force behind
the mortgage shortage at this point, you know, or housing shortage.
Do we real quick before I get to the stock
(05:12):
market side, what's what's the what's the lay of the
land in your office right now when it comes to
these people. And I'm going to ask the same question
if you quity real quick, what's the lay of the
land right now? And these people that do have the
three to four percent mortgage, the historically low mortgage, coming
to you and going, what do you mean I'm north
of six percent? I can't do tell me what you're
(05:35):
seeing and hearing at this.
Speaker 7 (05:36):
Point exactly what you just articulated.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I mean, they they're having a hard time giving up
something that they believe was a gift, which it was
to something now that's reality, and it just it messes
with their psyche. It just I had it today, I
heard it today, I mean wanting to And it's amazing
because Corey can attest to this. The sellers, including builders, man,
(06:00):
they're just trying everything. John Sure, they are throwing everything
at the home buyer right now and they're still not
really moving.
Speaker 7 (06:07):
We talked about that last week.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
So it's a true and it's far different than the
golden parachute, the golden handcuffs, but I mean they just
it's yeah, it's spoiled. You know, all your analogy is
like a drug. Hey I got three and a half,
I want three and a half again?
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
Yeah, I see the same thing, but I am seeing
people not that aren't moving, because I do have a
lot of clients over the past couple of years that
have moved, but they're not giving up that house. They're
going to continue to rent it out. The numbers make sense.
It becomes an investment property. And I don't know what
the national numbers are, but I would guess we have
probably the highest rate of individual landlords than we've probably
(06:46):
ever had, yes, because people aren't going to give up
that that rate, and it probably makes good financial sense.
Not good for the overall real estate market as far
as going it to unlock, but for that individual if
it's a positive cash flow, rent markets tight. Why wouldn't
you get right.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Right, right exactly, Johnny.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
You start to think with the government shut down in
all the little things that are going on, that helped
a lot of people probably, I mean, you know, versus
if they would have had a five and a half
or six.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
So yeah, Well, I want to before I go into
the stock mart, I want to give you some very
important stats as to why we're discussing this because again,
this is a very serious situation.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
So listen to these stats.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Votes.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I got this from Mortgage point plus two reletters. It
says more than half of US homeowners have MORTGA mortgage
rates below four percent. Okay, so again, now you see
why we are having an inventory problem. Right, more than
half of the mortgages in the US are below four percent.
Research shows this rate gap, which is existing rate versus
(07:46):
the current rate, significantly reduces homeowners' mobility. Now, the Federal
Reserve Board study found that this lock in effect accounted
for roughly forty four percent of the drop and moves
between twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two. And the
sentiment quote, I won't move because I'd lose my three
to four percent mortgage and take a six to seven
percent rate instead. Nope, don't want to do it. And
(08:07):
that's the sentiment. I don't want to move at this point.
So we're going to get into how it squeezes that
housing supply. Why now is especially critical some of the
implications of the buyer, the seller, and the investor with
this lock up in the inventory side.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
And then the boys will give some advice going.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Forward as to you know what you can do, and
really some of the things to think about because it's
not all about the rate, but it's very important. And Dwight,
you've got to have the hardest shop or you, Corey
got to have the hardest shop in the world. When
someone comes in and goes help me make financial sins
out of giving up my three percent mortgage, going for
a you know, six percent plus mortgage and most likely
it's going to be a more expensive house than what
(08:46):
they currently have and adjusting for that higher payment.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I mean, that's what we're all about.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Well, yeah, John, what they do is they come they're
not focused on Corey has said there's many times they're
not focused on the rate.
Speaker 7 (08:55):
They're focused here's the payment I want.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Well, only way I can get that payment as inside
of four or or something. And you're seeing a lot
of shift. We've talked about this too, that the temporary buydowns,
the two one three two one by downs, people are
walking away from those because they just feel like it's good.
But John, back to your point on half of the
US homeowners, that's thirty plus million. Yes, yes, I mean
that's a lot. And you it bothers me that during
(09:19):
the meltdown. They figured out through Harp and hamp and
even though they were unsuccessful, that they can't figure out
a way to try to maybe swap I mean, if
you have been in it maybe five years, perfect payment history,
there's got to be something that you can do there
some sort of a motivation.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
The government came out with his great plan to I
what do you mean that there's something they can do.
Speaker 8 (09:41):
The fifty year mortgage? An exciting week fifty year mortgage.
When we come back, let's talk about how lows it
that really is. I sort of think it's something cute
to say, but it's terrible. Yeah, it's an absolutely terrible,
stupid idea. But I don't tell us about that. I'll
get into the stock market side about this record seting day.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
First, let's start over Christmas know right now traffic center,
Hillo Christen, Welcome back to the John Sanchez Show on
Newstalk seven eighty koh with Dwight Mallard. Highlands mortgage correage
of edibility. I'll write, is Dwight let the cat out
of the bag and I did that. I'll purmase though
a record seting day for the Dow. What a movement
five hundred and fifty nine point gain one point eight percent,
with the Dow closing up forty seven thousand and nine
(10:23):
hundred and twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
The Nazdak composite it was just underwater for most.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Of the session today, just couldn't get much Traction finished
down fifty nine a quarter percent and the SSP rising
of fourteen points er point two one percent. So what
was behind today's rally, Well, it wasn't Navidio. Remember, Navidio
is a deal component. Navidio to day had a tough
day five dollars and eighty nine cent loss, down two
point ninety six percent. The reason why, for those of
you that may or may not be familiar with the
(10:49):
big Japanese I don't know how they even classify themselves.
Are basically a venture capital fund called soft Bank. They
traded into some sft by. They announced this morning that
they were selling their entire stake in the VIDIA. There
were some rumors a couple of days ago that saw
Bank had some bad investments. I mean they own I
think hundreds literally of different tech companies.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
That's what they focus in, and.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
It kind of seems to me they either make it
really big or they lose really big. Well, they lost
on I forget the exact dollar amount, but a pretty
substantial sum was announced I think yesterday, and so they
dumped their steak in the VIDIA worth about five point
eight billion dollars.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
So that put pressure on the VIDIA. You know, I
think that's stupid to sell the video based on that news.
I mean five point five.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Point eight billion dollar investment for a company that's worth
what north of what corey fort trillion, right, because I
think the late market cap on the video.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
So that put pressure on another.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Semi's Advanced micro was down six dollars and forty six cents.
The company projects about about one hundred billion dollar in
data center revenue over the next three years.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Think about that one hundred billion, let's see. So but
stock again sold off on that.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Apple was a good performer, five dollars an two cent rise,
stand out among the goup as Trump said that the
US is nearing a trade deal with India, which of
course is one of the largest manufacturers of the iPhone,
Microsoft two dollars and sixty eight cent games. It was
kind of mixed on the tech side of things today.
Am Jim was a star in the in the in
the dow to day fourteen dollars and seventy nine cent
(12:18):
gain of about four point five seven percent. Along with
other healthcares. MERK was another strong performer four point eight
four percent rise. So healthcare was there poor airline stocks.
What nine thousand flights canceled now, I think is the
number they're saying. You know, it's just going to take
a long time, even you know with that the House is.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Set to vote, by the way, on Windsday.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Remember the Senate of course passed the bill up on
the government through January the third. The household, like I said,
is on Wednesday, and so most of feeling, of course
that the government shut down is going to end. But
the airlines came out today they warned that it's going
to take time for the flight schedules to get back
to normal once the government does reopen, potentially impact teen
(13:00):
Thanksgiving trouble. United Airlines today was down a dollar nineteen
Delta down about one point four to two percent, or
eighty three cents. Southwest down two point zero eight percent.
So this is kind of a mix showing. Commodity wise,
Gate eighty eight cents on oil, sixty one oh two.
Gold was quiet six dollars and thirty cent loss. Fourenty
wins sixteen two basis point increase on the tenure, mister Millard.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Four point one one. How'd we do on the thirty
year more each?
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (13:23):
So John, Ever since the fes Lord, the rates we've
been sitting in that six point yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Six point three range were at six point three four
today according to Mors Tuesdaily. So I exactly what we
said it was was going to happen is the moment.
We were at six point one seven before they were
for the announcement the Tuesday before the Wednesday. So, I mean,
you know, you lose twenty twenty two basis points on
a FED.
Speaker 7 (13:46):
People are just complex.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So let's see Dwight, if you uh, okay, So you
lost twenty two basis points since the last fedcut. So
if we get the December rate cut, that's going to
bring us up north of a six and a half
percent mortgage at the path repeats.
Speaker 7 (13:58):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
And if you go back a year ago, we were
pushing remember you were talking about pushing almost eight percent
last December November.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
So, It's it's just a very complicated, very confusing space
for home buyers, especially first time, first time struggling.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I think it's gonna be really interesting too when the
government reopens and we start getting economic data and really
start getting some obviously the bond market was closed today,
but when we start getting some bond market activity, because again,
they tend to pay attention to the economic works more
so than the stock market investor and portfolio managers in
most sense. So I think it's gonna be interesting to see,
(14:37):
you know, what they do with interest rates. Like I said, once,
I mean, it's going to be a floodgate when once
this reopens, it's going to be a floodgated data that
we're all of. It's going to be our heads are
going to be spinning trying to digest at all, et cetera.
So I think it'll be interesting to see, you know,
maybe get you get you a little bit of a
reprieve there.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Well, I think the simple fact that you know, President
Trump's talking about a fifty year mortgage term. At least
there's conversations that that's not the answer, but at least
they're talking about that. I mean, you don't just pop
off that you've you've had to talk to somebody.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So I looked at I saw an example yesterday when
the news came out yesterday morning of a fifty year
mortgage versus a thirty obviously same purchase, probably the same
down payment.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Blah blah blahlah.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
And it was not much of a difference in the.
Speaker 7 (15:27):
Two hundred bucks.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Maybe, well, John, that's two hundred I think if you
compare the same rate, I think, but you go fifty
year term, So the impact of the benefits not going
to be enough.
Speaker 7 (15:39):
It's just not going to be it.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
So why even bother?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Well, here's the other thing. If you remember in twenty
ten they passed the qualified mortgage rule, it doesn't fit
the qualified mortgage rule. Therefore they're going to have to
rewrite the whole rule to allow because remember the maximum
term you can have them the qualified mortgage rule is
thirty years.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Wow, I did not know that.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
So, I mean, it's going to cost you a lot
of money to get a fifty year implement with no benefit.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
You think it was more of a pr move, like
I think some administration or we're trying to do something
versus reality.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
That it's going to help all right, perfectly.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Last thing I want to mention before we go to break, guys,
there was a I sent this guys, or sent this
to you guys. You guys, I think I had already
seen it. It came across the news wires, pretty good breaking
news and happened at about but I guess there was
about eleven fifty three this afternoon or this morning while
Street Journal broke the story. Fanny may watchdogs probed how
Poulty obtained mortgage records have key Democrats. We don't have
(16:33):
time to go through the story, but you can find
it on the internet. And faha, FHFA's Acting Inspector General
handed probe report to the US Attorney's Office that had
indicted in New York Attorney General Leticia James. Now remember
she was the one that Trump came after saying, you know,
mortgage fraud and everything else. So this whole thing is
(16:54):
centering again around Bill Poulte. Of course he has poulta
homes that he The Fanny Mae investigators were probing whether
mister Pulty and properly sought mortgage records Democratic officials, including
again New York Attorney General Letitia James. So they got fired,
this watchdog group, they got fired after they brought it
(17:15):
to the attention of the higher ups at Fannie May,
which of course Pulti manages and overseas and on or Dwight.
Do you think this could be the the underpinnings of
something a major probe where you know, this was a
witch hunt going on, and.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
I almost think it's tipped for tat, you know, I mean,
I think there's that this is a really gray area
in our field, you know, I mean where you and
check a couple boxes invertly it doesn't matter. But John,
I go back to uh, you know, uh, you know,
even COVID, there was so much abuse in COVID. Get
me a work from home letter and then you can
buy anywhere in the country for three percent down or whatever.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
We I'm afraid if you hope up that Pandora's box,
it's just not going to be a good yea. And
it's just gonna spend a lot of.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Time going to say that. All right, sounds good? All right.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
When we come back the Golden handcuffs, the hidden force
behind the housing shortage, we're gonna tell you the reasons why.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
The first turnod to Jack Savan. He's got new traffic
come weather, Hey, Jack's coot.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Welcome back to the John Sanchez Show on News Talk
seven eighty k O, which with coryage Vigtribility to White
Millard of Highlands Mortgage once again, a record setting session
afore the Dow Jones Industrial Average where we finished very
solidly with a five hundred and fifty nine point game
as that got down fifty nine in the SMB higher
by fourteen.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Again, thank you to all you veterans.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
All Right, we're gonna get into the housing side of
things now, and as we said going into the end
of the break, we're gonna be talking about what we
call the golden handcuffs once again, the hidden force behind
the housing shortage.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
But you look great.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Before we get into this, I've got to ask you,
and let's you know, remos, you've always said it. It's
a good indicator for what's going on nationally. Is there
really a housing shortage now that these rates have been
so stubborn, you know, in the mid sixes and so
on and so forth, or is this or are we
not being accurate when we say there's a housing shortage?
Speaker 5 (19:11):
No, there's a It depends what your barometer like, where's
normal right, what do people think normal is if you
look at if you look at pre COVID, not even
that you'd have to go probably you know, twenty seventeen, fifteen,
somewhere in there, because even in nineteen it was we
were getting a little slim. But yeah, there are not enough.
There's more demand than there are houses. So did the
(19:33):
demand go up, did the house did the supply go down?
Who knows, but there's way more demand. And as we're
talking about, people don't want to sell there and they
don't want to move because of the interest rate. If
they do move, they don't want to sell that house.
And so you kind of and I've said this for years,
and I think you guys agree, you kind of gotta
be careful what you wish for because if you're if
I'm a builder and I'm trying to get everybody to
(19:56):
you know, have a bunch of inventory but still get
the price, You're not going to get that. And we
have prices where they're at is because supplying demand, you
don't have any supply, and the demand will pay what
they have to get into the house. So, you know,
as we were talking about before, can the administration do
something I don't know.
Speaker 6 (20:14):
I agree with Dwight.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
We've been saying that if they can let these people
somehow move their mortgage from the property A to property B,
then you might open things up. But you have a
supply issue, and when you bring that supply to the market,
you're going to force prices down and you're going to
piss off half of the people.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yes, yes, well almost like the student loan issue. Right,
it's kind of like you wipe out the trilliy dollars
with the loans and so on and so forth. So
here's a little data to your point, Corey Dwight, and
that is this. I found a study by the US
Chamber of Commerce. They said the United States is short
by over four point seven million homes. The Harvard Joint
Center for Housing Study reports home sales will fall into
(20:56):
their lowest level in thirty years because of the affordability
and the housing crunch. So short by four point seven million.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Do I will we? Ever? I mean, let's let's do hypothetical.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Let's say for some strange reason, because it have to
be a bad reason, Like we the reason we got
three to four percent mortgages is something bad that comedy
happens and we get the six point three mortgage you
just mentioned a moment ago, we get that down to
back down to three or four percent. Do you think
at that point we could still and it lasted for
a few years, could we still have a housing shortage?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
You know, I don't know what core, but I think
you're still going to have it because I don't think
these builders will get out in front of their skis
too far like they did in the eight oh nine debacle.
Speaker 7 (21:40):
You know, I think they'll stay.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yes, they'll build specs in this, but they're not going
to build at a rate to absorb all of that.
Speaker 7 (21:46):
I don't believe it would take a long time.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
The Brookings Institute states that in one of their studies
that I came across, that the under supply of housing
has been a major driver to the elevated costs. Okay,
so there's one reason. But what I found also interesting
was this is, according to Fanny May, after the two
thousand and eight crisis, exactly what you just said to
Right after the two thousand and eight crisis, that is,
(22:09):
when new home construction dropped significantly. The decade ended with
fewer newer units built than typical in the past.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Decade.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
So I think that's interesting that you know, you have
to go all the way back to Whight, to two
thousand and eight where this problem really began.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah, well I think you even had a little bit
of a problem before that, and then and then that.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
Just threw it all out of way.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
I mean, if you remember, from what nine ten eleven,
you drove around, you saw a house under construction, You
thought you signed a dot, you thought you saw a dinosaur,
you know, because nobody was building. It took what what
do you think, Corey, twenty fourteen, somewhere in that range, John,
that we finally started pounding nails again, right, I mean
you went five years at least.
Speaker 7 (22:48):
Without really building any significant housing.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Okay, guys, so let's let's take this. Ups are good.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
No, No, I was just going to say, and those
those scars that those build, there's god will last that generation.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
Right, It's going to take another generation, yes, to forget
how you know.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
When I find that interesting you bring that up, Corey,
because what I see as an outsider looking into your
guys's industries, I always say Wall Street. I mean, if
you look at publicly traded companies, which many of these
developers are they tend to the trip, fall down, bruise themselves,
get you know, a bunch of cuts and everything, and
then the next quarter it's like brush the dust off.
(23:29):
We're moving forward again, right, you forget about what happened.
It doesn't seem to be that way with the home builders.
And I can't figure out why. Maybe you guys can explain.
But they fell down, got bumped and bruised and cuts
and everything else. But exactly your point, Corey, they're not
brushing themselves off. They still have the scars that they
look at every day. It's like, uh, I'm not going
to do that again.
Speaker 5 (23:49):
Well if you remember too, and I don't mean we
could spend a whole week on this, but you look
at the other industries that were bruised and battered. The banks,
well they got bailouts. I mean everybody got bailouts. The
builders didn'tet bailed. If they all had to go for
the most part, most of them want bankrupt. If the
company itself didn't go bankrupt, then all the little LLC's
of how their land had.
Speaker 6 (24:07):
To go bankrupt to clear the debt. And Dwight might
know this, I'm not sure.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
I don't know what the what the range of if
you took all the new homes built around the country,
how many are built by huge wall street builders versus
small local buildings. I don't know if it's fifty to
fifty eighty twenty, you know, but I can guarantee you
at least the builders I know around here, those scars
will last through that builder and maybe that builder's kid,
and it might be the grand kid that forgets about it.
(24:33):
And if they're building half the houses in the country,
I don't know if that numbers accurate or not, then
that's a lot of supply that will not come.
Speaker 6 (24:39):
To the market.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
And John it's it's easier for a Dr Horton, which
is publicly traded, not to have the scars so bad,
right to Corey, but still their regional but they still
they still want no no fair.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
But you.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Know when you when you when you dip in the
wall street well it's a little but Corey's point, you
get regional and local builders, they'll never forget it. Yeah,
I mean, how are we going to forget it? I
mean Corey and Iris Carred, I mean, you know.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Hey, let me talk to our producer, Hey, Bailey, do
me a favorite look up look up for us over
the last ten years, what percentage of That's a great point.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Corey brings up what percent.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Of homes are built by the national builders versus how many.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
Are built by private contraclders. I think that's a very
interesting point.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
Well well, and also you also need to go back
maybe twenty years prior to the recession and see what
they were doing prior to wait, because it would have
been a percentage before.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
Yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
All right, So this kind of comes down to this point,
what does this shortage really mean for all of you
listening to us right now?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
So let's go with the first one, guys, affordability. It
is worsening. Corey touched on that one.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Yeah, and it's not going to get better again if
the theory of applying demand, so you don't have enough supply,
you've got big demand, it's going to keep prices up.
Then you have the inflation stuff. I don't know if
you're not to delve off into something else. But you
saw those core Weave earnings this morning, which is completely
different AI data center builder Bubba. But the reason their
earnings went data is because they missed a couple of
(26:16):
projects because they couldn't get the concrete, they couldn't get materials.
Everything's expensive that way. The builders are the same way.
They need the concrete for their foundations. They need the
two by four. So you're going to affordability from a
supplying demand, but also from an inflationary standpoint.
Speaker 6 (26:30):
It just it costs a lot of money to build houses.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Do you think, Corey, that the waves that a construction
worker can earn building a data center is greater than
the wage they can earn working for a national builder
outpound and nails, framing or laying concrete.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
You know, I don't.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
I've never thought of it because I guess from my
simple mind, you would think it could be the same guy.
But I guess it wouldn't be the same guy.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Right, But see, I think it would be more.
Speaker 6 (26:57):
Really, remember those data centers the builders build shell.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yes, yes, that's exactly.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
They could be more, but they're just building the shell
and then the computer guys come later.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
But what I'm thinking is, because I see it from
from Wall Street's perspective, they're throwing stupid money. Exactly your
core we've coming and let me back up what Corey's
talking about core We've got pounded today in their stock
because they missed the earnings after the call yesterday. But
they missed the earnings because one of their data centers
wasn't built in time, and they it's basically delayed.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Turmans going, oh my god, it's going to drow up.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
So we've CEO was on CNBC this morning he said,
look at calm down, everybody, to take a chill pill.
It's no problem. We're not losing customers. We just had
construction delays. But back to my point, Corey, I'm wondering,
you know, is are these workers which everything I'm seeing, reading, watching,
these are really starting to become very specialized contractors building
these data centers, right, they got to do it fast,
(27:51):
They've got to do it efficiently. There's so much pressure
on that I have a feeling that Wall Street is
throwing more money at these contractors to them build because
these things are getting built, you know, and like a
year year and a half seems to be the norm.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I'm talking from.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Scraping the sagebrush off the ground in Texas to you know,
they're up and running about year year and a half.
So if there's that pressure to build them that fast.
I would think the general contractor to his subs would
be you know, paying a heck of a lot. More So,
if I'm a construction guy, especially a concrete guy, I'm
probably gonna jump.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Over to the AI side of thing and travel the
country almost.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I liken it almost to the oil field workers, right,
they go from state to state wherever the big money is,
that's where they're going to go. And I'm just wondering
if that's one of the challenges that the publicly traded
builders are facing, you know, with trying to find labor
and produce homes.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
Well, finally with that, then you got immigration. Then you
got to remember I mean maybe I'm well, no, you're
right fun that spot. You got Liftian mining, You've got
gold mining, Like there's other industries that pay a very
good wage that will pull that carpenter off that job.
Speaker 6 (28:55):
And you can come you can come to a little Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Okay, Dwight, if you've got any comments on that, hold
it just for me, just for a minute.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Let's go ahead and run our final break. Turn over to
Christen snow right now Traffic Center.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Kristen, Welcome back to the John Sanchez Show on Newstalk
seven eighty k O. Whis mister Edge your phone.
Speaker 6 (29:15):
Number six seven three six seven zero zero.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Thank you, my friend, Miss Milert two four zero two
zero two two perfect.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
So we had an interesting discussion during the break. I
want to bring everybody in line with us what we're doing. So,
according to Analysis and Builders Online, publicly traded home builders
share of new US built homes increased from thirty seven
percent in twenty nineteen to now fifty one percent as
of twenty twenty four. John Byrne's Research and Consulting said
(29:46):
that publicly traded builders make up now fifty one twenty
excuse me, now make up fifty one percent of new
homes in twenty twenty three, up from twenty five percent
in two thousand and five. So we've gone from publicly
traded builders again twenty five percent roughly in two thousand
and five or where twenty years later they now make
(30:06):
up fifty one percent. So what we're kind of discussing
amongst ourselves during the break was that they take share
away from the smaller builders, right, or do the smaller builders.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
You know, still taking share of just not able to
build as much?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I think I think it's the line I think the
smaller builders a access to capital very very difficult, still core.
Do you hear any ramblings among your developer friends that
it's still challenged to go out to you know, banks,
you know, so on so worth and fteen financing for
for big for custom builds and stuff.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
I mean it's that that's probably as difficult that is
as it has always been. But it's hard to make
the numbers work, Like I'll give you a loan it's
nine and a half percent with yeah, you know, six
points and two year call like, well that makes no sense, right,
so right.
Speaker 7 (30:57):
Yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
I it's it's tough for the little guy. I just
think that the biggies are coming in. They're everywhere John,
you know, and it's just hard to compete. It's like
anything else.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
So we got about sixty seconds left, waight, I'm going
to throw this at you because you know, the Pulty
group and so and so forth pretty well the poll
that Bill Poulty has running FHFA. Do you not think
he's in the President's ear saying, look it, you got
to do something. We got to do something to help
out quote the publicly traded builders. But obviously he's thinking
of his own family's business along with others.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, you would hope he's not that far removed from
the field, but I don't think he is.
Speaker 7 (31:34):
So I think that.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
I think that's the reason why you that fifty year
term came up is I think he's going we can't
get first time home buyers. We're having a hard time
selling homes. I mean, I visit a couple of Poulty
subdivisions and they're given away. Now they're throwing in a
furniture a ten thousand dollars furniture spree. I mean, they're
they're out there doing everything they can do they need.
I mean, yeah, I'm sure he is daily.
Speaker 7 (31:57):
I would hope.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
Yeah, I would think so too.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, it's a challenge that this keeps going on and
on and always talked about it, but there's a fresh
perspective on it. Great job Fellows. Will do again tomorrow
on the John Sanche Show. Gud listen, have a great afternoon.
Thank you all you veterans. Dwight Millard NMLSID number two
four one two five nine a license mortgage loan Officer
with Highlands Residential Mortgage Limited and Equal Housing Lender NMLSID Number.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
One three, four, eight seven one.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
The information shared on this live broadcast is for general
information purposes only and does not constitute financial or mortgage advice.
Listeners should consult directly with a license mortgage professional for
guidance tailored to their specific situation.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
All loans are subject to credit approval and program guidelines.
Not all applicants will qualify.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Loan terms and availability may vary by state and are
subject to change without notice.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Highlands Residential Mortgage Limited is licensed in multiple states.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
For a full list of state licenses and disclosures, please
visit https slash slash www dot Highlandsmortgage dot com backsloe
slash licenses backslash. The views expressed during this program are
their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Highland's
Residential Mortgage Limited,
Good Tuesday afternoon to you.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome to the John Sanchez Show one News Talk seven
eighty k which it's a pleasure to be with you
and a pleasure to be.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
With my co host.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Glad to have everybody on border around the horn. We
shall travel. Dwight Mollart Highlands Mortgage. How you doing, my
friend looking fine? And deviniir is always am.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I am doing fantastic. It's a pleasure to be with
you guys too, every time. I love Tuesday Thursdays.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You and me both, brother, you and me both and folks.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
If you could see it, he looks like an absolute
radio star right now, Corey Edge of Edge Reality, sitting
in his beautiful truck, headphones on microphone right there, able
to do the show no matter where we go.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
That's the new technology. We have.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
You looking sharp, buddy, You're looking sharp. You look like
a busy real estate broker sitting out there.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (00:44):
I told Dwight, this microphone could fall at any point.
So if it if it ends up looking at the ceiling,
because I have the camera, the camera, there's there's.
Speaker 6 (00:53):
People, yes, the camera to there's people out here staring
at me.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
They probably I can imagine.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah, they're gonna think you're, you know, ice agent or
something you know doing.
Speaker 7 (01:07):
He's going to be in a riot here pretty soon.
Speaker 6 (01:11):
I don't want to give anything away, but don't say
that too low.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Based on where I am, based on where you are, Yes,
it could be.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
That's to say they like to call it football. You're
one of those.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Stadiums I'm sitting.
Speaker 6 (01:22):
I'm actually sitting outside the Highland Mortgage offices. Dwightson.
Speaker 7 (01:30):
That's a good one.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
And his license number is yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Oh I goes, I hear you. Well.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Before we get started on a on a more serious note,
we want to take this opportunity, as we always do
on Veterans Day, and take this moment and say thank.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You from the bottom.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Guy, make a little statement here, but thank you from
the bottom of my heart for everything that you veterans
do for this great nation of ours. If it were
not for you, we would not have this great nation.
And I always like to include the family because the
family obviously sacrifices so very much. My daughter's boyfriend has
just joined the Marines. A few about that, I guess
(02:06):
about three weeks ago. He's at Camp Pendleton going through
boot camp. So they're pretty serious. So maybe he'll someday
be a son in law. I don't know, but uh again,
thank you to all of you for your sacrifices and
and your lives and everything else that. Uh yeah, I
said without you, we would we would not be where
we are in this country.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Dwight, Yeah, I echo everything you're saying. And you know, John,
we always talked about it. Freedom is not free. You know,
somebody pays a price, some family member, and uh yeah,
it's a it's a huge honor to uh be part of,
you know, the American way in the process. And I
too think all the all the veterans and their families.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
You've got to include their families absolutely, of course.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
Yeah, I echo that to freedom is not free, and
it's unfortunate because I think, at least my own case,
like you don't start appreciating anymore until you get older
and I start think about my grandfather fund World War Two.
My dad was in the military. I mean, we don't
have a super military family, but definitely a lot of
background there, and you don't you don't really appreciate it
until you start seeing, feeling it, or knowing that, hey,
(03:09):
not every country has what we have, they're not blessed
to have. No one does the things we do. Yeah,
and we have them because of the military. So yeah,
thank you to everybody.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Absolutely, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
All Right, Well, well that said, let me tell you
what we have lined up for you. We're going to
recap today's market activity and what a day it was.
What kind of day was it today, Dwight Millard.
Speaker 7 (03:28):
John, I love it? Another record setting day.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
There you go, at least on one of the major averages,
the Dow Jones Industrial Average. So I want to give you
the details behind today's market activity. Was a great day
to day, to say the least, a big, big return numbers.
And we're going to get into our real estate topic.
You know, folks, when we start talking about the real
estate side of things, there's a there's a hidden force, right.
We talk all the time about once a month we
(03:52):
give you the local real estate data and so on
and so forth, and the rest of the month we're
always talking with Corey and Dwight about this this hidden
force right now that's going on, this hidden force that's
keeping essentially the housing market.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Frozen, right, And what it really boils.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Down to is you've got millions and millions of homeowners
in this country with trillions, literally trillions of dollars of
home equity, but they've got an ultral little mortgage, right
that three four percent mortgage and they don't want to move.
Then what we basically can say is they've got the
golden handcuffs on them. And what that does then is
(04:29):
if they don't move, they don't go move up to
the next house or downsize or something. There's no activity,
So then our inventory gets locked up. So what is
this golden handcuff meaning the low mortgage rate that so
many people again are hesitant to sell because they don't
want to go from as Dowight will say, I'm going
to guess north of six percent is where we've been hovering.
They're not going to go from a three or four
(04:50):
percent mortgage to that six percent plus mortgage and increase
their payments. They just don't want to do that at
this point. So we're in this bottleneck as we have
been for quite some time now. But again we need
to talk about what's going on, this hidden force behind
the mortgage shortage at this point, you know, or housing shortage.
Do we real quick before I get to the stock
(05:12):
market side, what's what's the what's the lay of the
land in your office right now when it comes to
these people. And I'm going to ask the same question
if you quity real quick, what's the lay of the
land right now? And these people that do have the
three to four percent mortgage, the historically low mortgage, coming
to you and going, what do you mean I'm north
of six percent? I can't do tell me what you're
(05:35):
seeing and hearing at this.
Speaker 7 (05:36):
Point exactly what you just articulated.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
I mean, they they're having a hard time giving up
something that they believe was a gift, which it was
to something now that's reality, and it just it messes
with their psyche. It just I had it today, I
heard it today, I mean wanting to And it's amazing
because Corey can attest to this. The sellers, including builders, man,
(06:00):
they're just trying everything. John Sure, they are throwing everything
at the home buyer right now and they're still not
really moving.
Speaker 7 (06:07):
We talked about that last week.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
So it's a true and it's far different than the
golden parachute, the golden handcuffs, but I mean they just
it's yeah, it's spoiled. You know, all your analogy is
like a drug. Hey I got three and a half,
I want three and a half again?
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
Yeah, I see the same thing, but I am seeing
people not that aren't moving, because I do have a
lot of clients over the past couple of years that
have moved, but they're not giving up that house. They're
going to continue to rent it out. The numbers make sense.
It becomes an investment property. And I don't know what
the national numbers are, but I would guess we have
probably the highest rate of individual landlords than we've probably
(06:46):
ever had, yes, because people aren't going to give up
that that rate, and it probably makes good financial sense.
Not good for the overall real estate market as far
as going it to unlock, but for that individual if
it's a positive cash flow, rent markets tight. Why wouldn't
you get right.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
Right, right exactly, Johnny.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
You start to think with the government shut down in
all the little things that are going on, that helped
a lot of people probably, I mean, you know, versus
if they would have had a five and a half
or six.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
So yeah, Well, I want to before I go into
the stock mart, I want to give you some very
important stats as to why we're discussing this because again,
this is a very serious situation.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
So listen to these stats.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Votes.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I got this from Mortgage point plus two reletters. It
says more than half of US homeowners have MORTGA mortgage
rates below four percent. Okay, so again, now you see
why we are having an inventory problem. Right, more than
half of the mortgages in the US are below four percent.
Research shows this rate gap, which is existing rate versus
(07:46):
the current rate, significantly reduces homeowners' mobility. Now, the Federal
Reserve Board study found that this lock in effect accounted
for roughly forty four percent of the drop and moves
between twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two. And the
sentiment quote, I won't move because I'd lose my three
to four percent mortgage and take a six to seven
percent rate instead. Nope, don't want to do it. And
(08:07):
that's the sentiment. I don't want to move at this point.
So we're going to get into how it squeezes that
housing supply. Why now is especially critical some of the
implications of the buyer, the seller, and the investor with
this lock up in the inventory side.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
And then the boys will give some advice going.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Forward as to you know what you can do, and
really some of the things to think about because it's
not all about the rate, but it's very important. And Dwight,
you've got to have the hardest shop or you, Corey
got to have the hardest shop in the world. When
someone comes in and goes help me make financial sins
out of giving up my three percent mortgage, going for
a you know, six percent plus mortgage and most likely
it's going to be a more expensive house than what
(08:46):
they currently have and adjusting for that higher payment.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I mean, that's what we're all about.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Well, yeah, John, what they do is they come they're
not focused on Corey has said there's many times they're
not focused on the rate.
Speaker 7 (08:55):
They're focused here's the payment I want.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Well, only way I can get that payment as inside
of four or or something. And you're seeing a lot
of shift. We've talked about this too, that the temporary buydowns,
the two one three two one by downs, people are
walking away from those because they just feel like it's good.
But John, back to your point on half of the
US homeowners, that's thirty plus million. Yes, yes, I mean
that's a lot. And you it bothers me that during
(09:19):
the meltdown. They figured out through Harp and hamp and
even though they were unsuccessful, that they can't figure out
a way to try to maybe swap I mean, if
you have been in it maybe five years, perfect payment history,
there's got to be something that you can do there
some sort of a motivation.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
The government came out with his great plan to I
what do you mean that there's something they can do.
Speaker 8 (09:41):
The fifty year mortgage? An exciting week fifty year mortgage.
When we come back, let's talk about how lows it
that really is. I sort of think it's something cute
to say, but it's terrible. Yeah, it's an absolutely terrible,
stupid idea. But I don't tell us about that. I'll
get into the stock market side about this record seting day.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
First, let's start over Christmas know right now traffic center,
Hillo Christen, Welcome back to the John Sanchez Show on
Newstalk seven eighty koh with Dwight Mallard. Highlands mortgage correage
of edibility. I'll write, is Dwight let the cat out
of the bag and I did that. I'll purmase though
a record seting day for the Dow. What a movement
five hundred and fifty nine point gain one point eight percent,
with the Dow closing up forty seven thousand and nine
(10:23):
hundred and twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
The Nazdak composite it was just underwater for most.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Of the session today, just couldn't get much Traction finished
down fifty nine a quarter percent and the SSP rising
of fourteen points er point two one percent. So what
was behind today's rally, Well, it wasn't Navidio. Remember, Navidio
is a deal component. Navidio to day had a tough
day five dollars and eighty nine cent loss, down two
point ninety six percent. The reason why, for those of
you that may or may not be familiar with the
(10:49):
big Japanese I don't know how they even classify themselves.
Are basically a venture capital fund called soft Bank. They
traded into some sft by. They announced this morning that
they were selling their entire stake in the VIDIA. There
were some rumors a couple of days ago that saw
Bank had some bad investments. I mean they own I
think hundreds literally of different tech companies.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
That's what they focus in, and.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
It kind of seems to me they either make it
really big or they lose really big. Well, they lost
on I forget the exact dollar amount, but a pretty
substantial sum was announced I think yesterday, and so they
dumped their steak in the VIDIA worth about five point
eight billion dollars.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
So that put pressure on the VIDIA. You know, I
think that's stupid to sell the video based on that news.
I mean five point five.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Point eight billion dollar investment for a company that's worth
what north of what corey fort trillion, right, because I
think the late market cap on the video.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
So that put pressure on another.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Semi's Advanced micro was down six dollars and forty six cents.
The company projects about about one hundred billion dollar in
data center revenue over the next three years.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Think about that one hundred billion, let's see. So but
stock again sold off on that.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Apple was a good performer, five dollars an two cent rise,
stand out among the goup as Trump said that the
US is nearing a trade deal with India, which of
course is one of the largest manufacturers of the iPhone,
Microsoft two dollars and sixty eight cent games. It was
kind of mixed on the tech side of things today.
Am Jim was a star in the in the in
the dow to day fourteen dollars and seventy nine cent
(12:18):
gain of about four point five seven percent. Along with
other healthcares. MERK was another strong performer four point eight
four percent rise. So healthcare was there poor airline stocks.
What nine thousand flights canceled now, I think is the
number they're saying. You know, it's just going to take
a long time, even you know with that the House is.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Set to vote, by the way, on Windsday.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Remember the Senate of course passed the bill up on
the government through January the third. The household, like I said,
is on Wednesday, and so most of feeling, of course
that the government shut down is going to end. But
the airlines came out today they warned that it's going
to take time for the flight schedules to get back
to normal once the government does reopen, potentially impact teen
(13:00):
Thanksgiving trouble. United Airlines today was down a dollar nineteen
Delta down about one point four to two percent, or
eighty three cents. Southwest down two point zero eight percent.
So this is kind of a mix showing. Commodity wise,
Gate eighty eight cents on oil, sixty one oh two.
Gold was quiet six dollars and thirty cent loss. Fourenty
wins sixteen two basis point increase on the tenure, mister Millard.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Four point one one. How'd we do on the thirty
year more each?
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (13:23):
So John, Ever since the fes Lord, the rates we've
been sitting in that six point yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Six point three range were at six point three four
today according to Mors Tuesdaily. So I exactly what we
said it was was going to happen is the moment.
We were at six point one seven before they were
for the announcement the Tuesday before the Wednesday. So, I mean,
you know, you lose twenty twenty two basis points on
a FED.
Speaker 7 (13:46):
People are just complex.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So let's see Dwight, if you uh, okay, So you
lost twenty two basis points since the last fedcut. So
if we get the December rate cut, that's going to
bring us up north of a six and a half
percent mortgage at the path repeats.
Speaker 7 (13:58):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
And if you go back a year ago, we were
pushing remember you were talking about pushing almost eight percent
last December November.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
So, It's it's just a very complicated, very confusing space
for home buyers, especially first time, first time struggling.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I think it's gonna be really interesting too when the
government reopens and we start getting economic data and really
start getting some obviously the bond market was closed today,
but when we start getting some bond market activity, because again,
they tend to pay attention to the economic works more
so than the stock market investor and portfolio managers in
most sense. So I think it's gonna be interesting to see,
(14:37):
you know, what they do with interest rates. Like I said, once,
I mean, it's going to be a floodgate when once
this reopens, it's going to be a floodgated data that
we're all of. It's going to be our heads are
going to be spinning trying to digest at all, et cetera.
So I think it'll be interesting to see, you know,
maybe get you get you a little bit of a
reprieve there.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Well, I think the simple fact that you know, President
Trump's talking about a fifty year mortgage term. At least
there's conversations that that's not the answer, but at least
they're talking about that. I mean, you don't just pop
off that you've you've had to talk to somebody.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So I looked at I saw an example yesterday when
the news came out yesterday morning of a fifty year
mortgage versus a thirty obviously same purchase, probably the same
down payment.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Blah blah blahlah.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
And it was not much of a difference in the.
Speaker 7 (15:27):
Two hundred bucks.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Maybe, well, John, that's two hundred I think if you
compare the same rate, I think, but you go fifty
year term, So the impact of the benefits not going
to be enough.
Speaker 7 (15:39):
It's just not going to be it.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
So why even bother?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Well, here's the other thing. If you remember in twenty
ten they passed the qualified mortgage rule, it doesn't fit
the qualified mortgage rule. Therefore they're going to have to
rewrite the whole rule to allow because remember the maximum
term you can have them the qualified mortgage rule is
thirty years.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Wow, I did not know that.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
So, I mean, it's going to cost you a lot
of money to get a fifty year implement with no benefit.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
You think it was more of a pr move, like
I think some administration or we're trying to do something
versus reality.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
That it's going to help all right, perfectly.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Last thing I want to mention before we go to break, guys,
there was a I sent this guys, or sent this
to you guys. You guys, I think I had already
seen it. It came across the news wires, pretty good breaking
news and happened at about but I guess there was
about eleven fifty three this afternoon or this morning while
Street Journal broke the story. Fanny may watchdogs probed how
Poulty obtained mortgage records have key Democrats. We don't have
(16:33):
time to go through the story, but you can find
it on the internet. And faha, FHFA's Acting Inspector General
handed probe report to the US Attorney's Office that had
indicted in New York Attorney General Leticia James. Now remember
she was the one that Trump came after saying, you know,
mortgage fraud and everything else. So this whole thing is
(16:54):
centering again around Bill Poulte. Of course he has poulta
homes that he The Fanny Mae investigators were probing whether
mister Pulty and properly sought mortgage records Democratic officials, including
again New York Attorney General Letitia James. So they got fired,
this watchdog group, they got fired after they brought it
(17:15):
to the attention of the higher ups at Fannie May,
which of course Pulti manages and overseas and on or Dwight.
Do you think this could be the the underpinnings of
something a major probe where you know, this was a
witch hunt going on, and.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
I almost think it's tipped for tat, you know, I mean,
I think there's that this is a really gray area
in our field, you know, I mean where you and
check a couple boxes invertly it doesn't matter. But John,
I go back to uh, you know, uh, you know,
even COVID, there was so much abuse in COVID. Get
me a work from home letter and then you can
buy anywhere in the country for three percent down or whatever.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
We I'm afraid if you hope up that Pandora's box,
it's just not going to be a good yea. And
it's just gonna spend a lot of.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Time going to say that. All right, sounds good? All right.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
When we come back the Golden handcuffs, the hidden force
behind the housing shortage, we're gonna tell you the reasons why.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
The first turnod to Jack Savan. He's got new traffic
come weather, Hey, Jack's coot.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Welcome back to the John Sanchez Show on News Talk
seven eighty k O, which with coryage Vigtribility to White
Millard of Highlands Mortgage once again, a record setting session
afore the Dow Jones Industrial Average where we finished very
solidly with a five hundred and fifty nine point game
as that got down fifty nine in the SMB higher
by fourteen.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Again, thank you to all you veterans.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
All Right, we're gonna get into the housing side of
things now, and as we said going into the end
of the break, we're gonna be talking about what we
call the golden handcuffs once again, the hidden force behind
the housing shortage.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
But you look great.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Before we get into this, I've got to ask you,
and let's you know, remos, you've always said it. It's
a good indicator for what's going on nationally. Is there
really a housing shortage now that these rates have been
so stubborn, you know, in the mid sixes and so
on and so forth, or is this or are we
not being accurate when we say there's a housing shortage?
Speaker 5 (19:11):
No, there's a It depends what your barometer like, where's
normal right, what do people think normal is if you
look at if you look at pre COVID, not even
that you'd have to go probably you know, twenty seventeen, fifteen,
somewhere in there, because even in nineteen it was we
were getting a little slim. But yeah, there are not enough.
There's more demand than there are houses. So did the
(19:33):
demand go up, did the house did the supply go down?
Who knows, but there's way more demand. And as we're
talking about, people don't want to sell there and they
don't want to move because of the interest rate. If
they do move, they don't want to sell that house.
And so you kind of and I've said this for years,
and I think you guys agree, you kind of gotta
be careful what you wish for because if you're if
I'm a builder and I'm trying to get everybody to
(19:56):
you know, have a bunch of inventory but still get
the price, You're not going to get that. And we
have prices where they're at is because supplying demand, you
don't have any supply, and the demand will pay what
they have to get into the house. So, you know,
as we were talking about before, can the administration do
something I don't know.
Speaker 6 (20:14):
I agree with Dwight.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
We've been saying that if they can let these people
somehow move their mortgage from the property A to property B,
then you might open things up. But you have a
supply issue, and when you bring that supply to the market,
you're going to force prices down and you're going to
piss off half of the people.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yes, yes, well almost like the student loan issue. Right,
it's kind of like you wipe out the trilliy dollars
with the loans and so on and so forth. So
here's a little data to your point, Corey Dwight, and
that is this. I found a study by the US
Chamber of Commerce. They said the United States is short
by over four point seven million homes. The Harvard Joint
Center for Housing Study reports home sales will fall into
(20:56):
their lowest level in thirty years because of the affordability
and the housing crunch. So short by four point seven million.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Do I will we? Ever? I mean, let's let's do hypothetical.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Let's say for some strange reason, because it have to
be a bad reason, Like we the reason we got
three to four percent mortgages is something bad that comedy
happens and we get the six point three mortgage you
just mentioned a moment ago, we get that down to
back down to three or four percent. Do you think
at that point we could still and it lasted for
a few years, could we still have a housing shortage?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
You know, I don't know what core, but I think
you're still going to have it because I don't think
these builders will get out in front of their skis
too far like they did in the eight oh nine debacle.
Speaker 7 (21:40):
You know, I think they'll stay.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yes, they'll build specs in this, but they're not going
to build at a rate to absorb all of that.
Speaker 7 (21:46):
I don't believe it would take a long time.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
The Brookings Institute states that in one of their studies
that I came across, that the under supply of housing
has been a major driver to the elevated costs. Okay,
so there's one reason. But what I found also interesting
was this is, according to Fanny May, after the two
thousand and eight crisis, exactly what you just said to
Right after the two thousand and eight crisis, that is,
(22:09):
when new home construction dropped significantly. The decade ended with
fewer newer units built than typical in the past.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Decade.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
So I think that's interesting that you know, you have
to go all the way back to Whight, to two
thousand and eight where this problem really began.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah, well I think you even had a little bit
of a problem before that, and then and then that.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
Just threw it all out of way.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
I mean, if you remember, from what nine ten eleven,
you drove around, you saw a house under construction, You
thought you signed a dot, you thought you saw a dinosaur,
you know, because nobody was building. It took what what
do you think, Corey, twenty fourteen, somewhere in that range, John,
that we finally started pounding nails again, right, I mean
you went five years at least.
Speaker 7 (22:48):
Without really building any significant housing.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Okay, guys, so let's let's take this. Ups are good.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
No, No, I was just going to say, and those
those scars that those build, there's god will last that generation.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
Right, It's going to take another generation, yes, to forget
how you know.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
When I find that interesting you bring that up, Corey,
because what I see as an outsider looking into your
guys's industries, I always say Wall Street. I mean, if
you look at publicly traded companies, which many of these
developers are they tend to the trip, fall down, bruise themselves,
get you know, a bunch of cuts and everything, and
then the next quarter it's like brush the dust off.
(23:29):
We're moving forward again, right, you forget about what happened.
It doesn't seem to be that way with the home builders.
And I can't figure out why. Maybe you guys can explain.
But they fell down, got bumped and bruised and cuts
and everything else. But exactly your point, Corey, they're not
brushing themselves off. They still have the scars that they
look at every day. It's like, uh, I'm not going
to do that again.
Speaker 5 (23:49):
Well if you remember too, and I don't mean we
could spend a whole week on this, but you look
at the other industries that were bruised and battered. The banks,
well they got bailouts. I mean everybody got bailouts. The
builders didn'tet bailed. If they all had to go for
the most part, most of them want bankrupt. If the
company itself didn't go bankrupt, then all the little LLC's
of how their land had.
Speaker 6 (24:07):
To go bankrupt to clear the debt. And Dwight might
know this, I'm not sure.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
I don't know what the what the range of if
you took all the new homes built around the country,
how many are built by huge wall street builders versus
small local buildings. I don't know if it's fifty to
fifty eighty twenty, you know, but I can guarantee you
at least the builders I know around here, those scars
will last through that builder and maybe that builder's kid,
and it might be the grand kid that forgets about it.
(24:33):
And if they're building half the houses in the country,
I don't know if that numbers accurate or not, then
that's a lot of supply that will not come.
Speaker 6 (24:39):
To the market.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
And John it's it's easier for a Dr Horton, which
is publicly traded, not to have the scars so bad,
right to Corey, but still their regional but they still
they still want no no fair.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
But you.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Know when you when you when you dip in the
wall street well it's a little but Corey's point, you
get regional and local builders, they'll never forget it. Yeah,
I mean, how are we going to forget it? I
mean Corey and Iris Carred, I mean, you know.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Hey, let me talk to our producer, Hey, Bailey, do
me a favorite look up look up for us over
the last ten years, what percentage of That's a great point.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Corey brings up what percent.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Of homes are built by the national builders versus how many.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
Are built by private contraclders. I think that's a very
interesting point.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
Well well, and also you also need to go back
maybe twenty years prior to the recession and see what
they were doing prior to wait, because it would have
been a percentage before.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
Yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
All right, So this kind of comes down to this point,
what does this shortage really mean for all of you
listening to us right now?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
So let's go with the first one, guys, affordability. It
is worsening. Corey touched on that one.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Yeah, and it's not going to get better again if
the theory of applying demand, so you don't have enough supply,
you've got big demand, it's going to keep prices up.
Then you have the inflation stuff. I don't know if
you're not to delve off into something else. But you
saw those core Weave earnings this morning, which is completely
different AI data center builder Bubba. But the reason their
earnings went data is because they missed a couple of
(26:16):
projects because they couldn't get the concrete, they couldn't get materials.
Everything's expensive that way. The builders are the same way.
They need the concrete for their foundations. They need the
two by four. So you're going to affordability from a
supplying demand, but also from an inflationary standpoint.
Speaker 6 (26:30):
It just it costs a lot of money to build houses.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Do you think, Corey, that the waves that a construction
worker can earn building a data center is greater than
the wage they can earn working for a national builder
outpound and nails, framing or laying concrete.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
You know, I don't.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
I've never thought of it because I guess from my
simple mind, you would think it could be the same guy.
But I guess it wouldn't be the same guy.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Right, But see, I think it would be more.
Speaker 6 (26:57):
Really, remember those data centers the builders build shell.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yes, yes, that's exactly.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
They could be more, but they're just building the shell
and then the computer guys come later.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
But what I'm thinking is, because I see it from
from Wall Street's perspective, they're throwing stupid money. Exactly your
core we've coming and let me back up what Corey's
talking about core We've got pounded today in their stock
because they missed the earnings after the call yesterday. But
they missed the earnings because one of their data centers
wasn't built in time, and they it's basically delayed.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Turmans going, oh my god, it's going to drow up.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
So we've CEO was on CNBC this morning he said,
look at calm down, everybody, to take a chill pill.
It's no problem. We're not losing customers. We just had
construction delays. But back to my point, Corey, I'm wondering,
you know, is are these workers which everything I'm seeing, reading, watching,
these are really starting to become very specialized contractors building
these data centers, right, they got to do it fast,
(27:51):
They've got to do it efficiently. There's so much pressure
on that I have a feeling that Wall Street is
throwing more money at these contractors to them build because
these things are getting built, you know, and like a
year year and a half seems to be the norm.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I'm talking from.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Scraping the sagebrush off the ground in Texas to you know,
they're up and running about year year and a half.
So if there's that pressure to build them that fast.
I would think the general contractor to his subs would
be you know, paying a heck of a lot. More So,
if I'm a construction guy, especially a concrete guy, I'm
probably gonna jump.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Over to the AI side of thing and travel the
country almost.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I liken it almost to the oil field workers, right,
they go from state to state wherever the big money is,
that's where they're going to go. And I'm just wondering
if that's one of the challenges that the publicly traded
builders are facing, you know, with trying to find labor
and produce homes.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
Well, finally with that, then you got immigration. Then you
got to remember I mean maybe I'm well, no, you're
right fun that spot. You got Liftian mining, You've got
gold mining, Like there's other industries that pay a very
good wage that will pull that carpenter off that job.
Speaker 6 (28:55):
And you can come you can come to a little Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Okay, Dwight, if you've got any comments on that, hold
it just for me, just for a minute.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Let's go ahead and run our final break. Turn over to
Christen snow right now Traffic Center.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Kristen, Welcome back to the John Sanchez Show on Newstalk
seven eighty k O. Whis mister Edge your phone.
Speaker 6 (29:15):
Number six seven three six seven zero zero.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Thank you, my friend, Miss Milert two four zero two
zero two two perfect.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
So we had an interesting discussion during the break. I
want to bring everybody in line with us what we're doing. So,
according to Analysis and Builders Online, publicly traded home builders
share of new US built homes increased from thirty seven
percent in twenty nineteen to now fifty one percent as
of twenty twenty four. John Byrne's Research and Consulting said
(29:46):
that publicly traded builders make up now fifty one twenty
excuse me, now make up fifty one percent of new
homes in twenty twenty three, up from twenty five percent
in two thousand and five. So we've gone from publicly
traded builders again twenty five percent roughly in two thousand
and five or where twenty years later they now make
(30:06):
up fifty one percent. So what we're kind of discussing
amongst ourselves during the break was that they take share
away from the smaller builders, right, or do the smaller builders.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
You know, still taking share of just not able to
build as much?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I think I think it's the line I think the
smaller builders a access to capital very very difficult, still core.
Do you hear any ramblings among your developer friends that
it's still challenged to go out to you know, banks,
you know, so on so worth and fteen financing for
for big for custom builds and stuff.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
I mean it's that that's probably as difficult that is
as it has always been. But it's hard to make
the numbers work, Like I'll give you a loan it's
nine and a half percent with yeah, you know, six
points and two year call like, well that makes no sense, right,
so right.
Speaker 7 (30:57):
Yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
I it's it's tough for the little guy. I just
think that the biggies are coming in. They're everywhere John,
you know, and it's just hard to compete. It's like
anything else.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
So we got about sixty seconds left, waight, I'm going
to throw this at you because you know, the Pulty
group and so and so forth pretty well the poll
that Bill Poulty has running FHFA. Do you not think
he's in the President's ear saying, look it, you got
to do something. We got to do something to help
out quote the publicly traded builders. But obviously he's thinking
of his own family's business along with others.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, you would hope he's not that far removed from
the field, but I don't think he is.
Speaker 7 (31:34):
So I think that.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
I think that's the reason why you that fifty year
term came up is I think he's going we can't
get first time home buyers. We're having a hard time
selling homes. I mean, I visit a couple of Poulty
subdivisions and they're given away. Now they're throwing in a
furniture a ten thousand dollars furniture spree. I mean, they're
they're out there doing everything they can do they need.
I mean, yeah, I'm sure he is daily.
Speaker 7 (31:57):
I would hope.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
Yeah, I would think so too.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, it's a challenge that this keeps going on and
on and always talked about it, but there's a fresh
perspective on it. Great job Fellows. Will do again tomorrow
on the John Sanche Show. Gud listen, have a great afternoon.
Thank you all you veterans. Dwight Millard NMLSID number two
four one two five nine a license mortgage loan Officer
with Highlands Residential Mortgage Limited and Equal Housing Lender NMLSID Number.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
One three, four, eight seven one.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
The information shared on this live broadcast is for general
information purposes only and does not constitute financial or mortgage advice.
Listeners should consult directly with a license mortgage professional for
guidance tailored to their specific situation.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
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Not all applicants will qualify.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Loan terms and availability may vary by state and are
subject to change without notice.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Highlands Residential Mortgage Limited is licensed in multiple states.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
For a full list of state licenses and disclosures, please
visit https slash slash www dot Highlandsmortgage dot com backsloe
slash licenses backslash. The views expressed during this program are
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.