April 22, 2025 • 64 mins
Please join us for an exclusive conversation in The Locher Room featuring a heartfelt reunion between real-life friends and former co-stars Suzy Cote Ciccolini and Jocelyn Seagrave.
Both actresses captivated audiences on the iconic soap opera Guiding Light, with Suzy portraying Samantha Marler and Jocelyn bringing Julie Camaletti to life. Suzy Cote Ciccolini has had a diverse career, appearing in series such as House and CSI: Crime Scene Investigation, as well as films like All Alone (2011) and the cult classic video game Night Trap (1992). Jocelyn Seagrave, known for her work on Pacific Palisades in addition to Guiding Light, has a fascinating background, having grown up in Thailand and the U.S. She studied martial arts—earning a black belt in Tae Kwon Do—and holds a degree in English literature from the University of Virginia.
Don't miss this special reunion as Suzy and Jocelyn share behind-the-scenes stories, discuss their enduring friendship, and reflect on their journeys in entertainment. This is a conversation you won’t want to miss!
Both actresses captivated audiences on the iconic soap opera Guiding Light, with Suzy portraying Samantha Marler and Jocelyn bringing Julie Camaletti to life. Suzy Cote Ciccolini has had a diverse career, appearing in series such as House and CSI: Crime Scene Investigation, as well as films like All Alone (2011) and the cult classic video game Night Trap (1992). Jocelyn Seagrave, known for her work on Pacific Palisades in addition to Guiding Light, has a fascinating background, having grown up in Thailand and the U.S. She studied martial arts—earning a black belt in Tae Kwon Do—and holds a degree in English literature from the University of Virginia.
Don't miss this special reunion as Suzy and Jocelyn share behind-the-scenes stories, discuss their enduring friendship, and reflect on their journeys in entertainment. This is a conversation you won’t want to miss!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[Music]
(00:07):
Hi everyone, happy to have you here with me this evening in the locker room, I'm Alan Locker.
And tonight we're bringing together two talented actress and dear friends who first met on the set of Guiding Light.
Susie Coat Chikolini and Jocelyn C. Grave.
Susie and Jocelyn won over audiences with their portrayals of Samantha Marlar and Julie Cameletti.
(00:28):
And their friendship has lasted far beyond their time in Springfield.
With impressive career spanning TV, film, and more, they have plenty of stories to share about their journeys and entertainment and their lasting friendship.
Please help me welcome Susie Coat Chikolini and Jocelyn C. Grave.
Hi ladies and nice!
(00:50):
Great to see you Alan, so happy to see you. So thank you so much for being here.
No, we're so thrilled that you thought to have us on together.
And that is a real treat for us and that we can be in the same space.
That is a treat. That doesn't happen very often here.
(01:12):
Talk about your friendship. It amazes me. I mean you guys have really been friends since...
Since how many years?
How many years?
22.
We like 22.
I think I was about 22.
Now I'm 56.
Yeah!
There you go.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Jocelyn had recently posted a blog about our friendship that I thought was so cool and sort of like inspiring 22-year-olds to say,
(01:41):
"Oh my god, it can happen. You can be friends with someone for this long."
Yeah, and especially because I was remembering that the friendship has, you know,
it's not like we've talked every day for the last 30-something years.
There have been periods where we're more in touch and less in touch, but it's always been like one of those friends that when you talk again,
(02:02):
you just pick up like nothing's happened.
You go deep, like deep, deep, deep, immediately.
But, you know, then there have been other times where like we were roommates and we were together all the time.
So it's just Epton Float, depending on kind of what was going on in our lives, what cities we've been.
Husbands, kids, stuff like that.
(02:23):
It's so interesting because you just reminded me that a couple of hours ago I got a message from Melanie Smith who used to be on As the World Turns.
Yeah.
And Melanie Smith and Mary Ellen Stewart, who was also on As the World Turns, have sort of--
Give it to me what their characters are.
Melanie played Emily Stewart back in the day.
(02:44):
Okay.
And Mary Ellen played for any use.
She replaced Julie and Moore in that character.
Do you guys, Mark Lewis, was he guiding light when you were there?
Mindy's husband, Corday?
Yes, but not for very-- we didn't overlap that long.
Did Mary Ellen and Mark have been married for decades and have five, I think?
(03:08):
Oh, wow.
Have beautiful children.
But--
Well, you're an As the World Turns fan.
Well, it's so funny that you say that because I was before I was on guiding light, I was a huge As the World Turns fan.
I was way into Lily and Dustin and Holden.
I wanted to get home from school and want to read, you know, see what was going on with them.
And the funny thing is when I got on guiding light, Lily--
(03:32):
I can't remember her name right now-- Martha Stewart.
Martha Burn.
Martha Burn.
Martha Burn was there because she was dating someone on our show.
And I was like, I called my sister and was like, "Oh my god, she's here! She's here!"
She was dating-- she might have been dating Alan Michael Spalding, Carla Evans.
Yes, yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Susie, I grew up on both guiding light and world turns.
(03:54):
My mother learned to speak English, watching both shows, and then I ended up working for both.
So--
What did your mother speak?
Dutch.
My mom moved here from Holland.
My dad's mother had been-- had learned the same way, so it was her introduction to the English language.
So at the same time, you know the whole storyline I'm assuming.
(04:15):
Oh, everything.
Everything.
Yeah.
Good stuff.
Yeah.
I, on the other hand, never watched soap operas.
I remember in college my roommate watched on my children.
And so I come in and just try and like figure out what was going on and just give up.
That's-- yeah, I mean some people do and some people don't.
(04:37):
It's really bizarre.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's crazy.
I always had the most interesting interactions with fans in living in New York, though,
because you know, you just be walking around on the street and there'd be like this like seven-foot tall guy walk by me.
It was obviously a basketball player.
And, you know, talk about like how we enjoy the show, you know, or say something in passing.
(05:04):
And I guess, you know, because athletes have different schedules where they could be home during the day.
You know, so you see like people--
Yeah.
You wouldn't expect, you know.
One of my first jobs was a page at ABC and I had to give the Cleveland Indians baseball team a tour of all my children.
Because of that reason, that during the day they had extra time and they would watch with their wives and they got--
(05:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's so funny because people really didn't-- especially back then didn't talk about their love-- you know, men didn't talk about their love of soap.
Right.
Do you remember meeting for the first time?
I don't think you do, but--
We were talking about it, but I don't remember.
I remember coming into the hair and makeup room and seeing her.
She was already in the chair, you know, and just being like, "Oh, somebody in my age, we have to be friends."
(05:56):
And I must have like, you know, forced myself on her.
No, we won't.
I remember us bonding over that we were both dating older men.
They were like 30.
And we were like, "Yes!"
Oh, yeah, we have to really talk about how to do it because older guys.
(06:17):
Oh, my God, 30 was so old.
But that's where we sort of connected, saying that both of our way friends were way older than us.
I love that.
I love that.
But, you know, we didn't really overlap much in terms of our work on the show.
You know, I think I was sort of on my way out as she was on her way in.
(06:38):
Yeah.
In fact, we were even trying to--
And that makes your friendship even more incredible.
Why?
I know, right?
Because we didn't have time.
You didn't overlap.
You were on your way out and you really bonded.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was really amazing.
I was trying to think if maybe if any fans knew, because I can't remember if we were ever even in a scene together.
(07:01):
I thought maybe like a party scene, but Susie couldn't remember.
Oh, that's interesting.
I'm glad you said it out loud because if they're listening and they are, there's nobody better than somebody who let us know because we don't remember.
I love that.
Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah, that's crazy to think that, you know, you don't even know that.
(07:24):
Which is even more.
I mean, like you didn't work together.
You just bonded and that, you know.
Yeah, we were the same age.
We were both from LA.
So we'd both auditioned through LA.
Yeah.
And both had boyfriend's in LA, right?
Same thing.
Oh, wow, at the same time.
Wow.
That's great.
And then--
Yeah, I guess you lived on the--
(07:45):
a breeze side and I lived on the upper west side.
So we'd meet in Central Park, you know, halfway and like have like little sandwiches and bagels and just talk about life.
What are the fans can says I don't remember either.
But hopefully people will rack their brains.
Who or what led you both into arts to this field to acting?
(08:11):
Hmm.
You weren't you kind of a child, you co-actor?
So, you know, when I was growing up, I grew up on the Central Coast in California.
And I started at Children's Theater Company when I was a little kid.
I think I was just always drawn to it.
And I would go to LA.
I remember when I was in high school, I auditioned for Fame, which was, you know, the one with Nana Jackson, the TV show.
(08:39):
Oh.
And was, you know, accepted as an alternate dancer.
And then I went to UCLA and I remember being at UCLA and barely paying attention to my classes and just auditioning for things.
And that was, and I was getting a big talent search for your role.
Yeah. On guiding light, so I was, I think I was 20 years old.
(09:02):
TV guide was having this big and I didn't realize this, but it was having this big talent search for my role.
And so they had a big sort of to do about the audition process and, you know, what it took to be an actor and all that stuff.
Yeah. So I went to my first plane ride, never flown on a plane before ever in my life, was to audition for Guiding Light.
(09:29):
And then they had a second, I think they needed to like, whittle the plane field down and then they had second auditions.
So I flew out again, my second plane ride.
What was it?
Well, I mean, guiding light has a lot of history with you. I love that.
Yeah. Yeah, totally.
It really does. Do you remember who you auditioned with?
(09:51):
I mean, casting director, it wasn't Betty Ray. Was it still?
It was Betty Ray. Yes, it was.
Yeah.
Interesting, you know.
She was really, really, you know what?
This is what I remember. I remember there was a scene when I auditioned where you had to scream.
And then I remember going in there and saying, how's your ears to Betty Ray?
(10:14):
Because, you know, she had so many people screaming in her ear and she was like, what do you mean?
And I was like, because of all the ears thing.
And she was really like easy to get along with.
Oh, yeah, she was so sweet.
Yeah. So sweet.
And Jocelyn, for you, what led you down this road?
You know, I really, I took some acting classes.
(10:36):
I did a little in high school and I took a few classes in college and did a couple small productions.
But it wasn't until I graduated that I was like, I've always been a writer as well.
And I sort of thought, like, I don't feel like I'm ready to sit down and just write all day and be all by myself.
I feel like I want to be out doing things.
(10:58):
I don't know what I was thinking. But I was like, I'm going to give this acting thing a try.
So I remember I read a book.
Like, that was, you know, that was the only thing you could go to back then was a book.
There was some book about how to audition, you know, Michael shirt left.
Maybe.
It was very well known by Michael shirt left about what to wear to audition.
That kind of thing.
(11:20):
Yeah.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
When you think back on your career, whether it's a teacher, an agent who are some of the mentors who helped guide the way for you.
I had a great acting coach out in LA named Doug Warhead.
I think he's still coaching.
(11:42):
But he really made it seem so accessible.
He would just sort of say, like, you know, you don't have to think about these roles as like these huge all or nothing life or death moments.
You can, you know, you can do, you're ready now to do a small role.
You could do that role of three lines. Don't you think you can handle that and I'd be like, yeah, I can handle that.
(12:05):
Like just boosting our confidence.
Like that it's about sort of working at the craft and being, you know, a working actor.
It's not about like this all or nothing making it or not making it.
I think that was really a great mindset.
Well, and I had this acting teacher named Sal Dano, who I don't know if you've ever heard of someone named Linda Dano.
(12:28):
Yeah.
I think they were married at one point.
Yeah.
And he was an acting teacher in LA and when I was auditioning for Guiding Light, he helped me with the audition.
And he was, you know, very instrumental in terms of boosting my confidence about the role.
I was like, you could do this, you know, and really help me with the audition actually for Guiding Light.
(12:52):
That's so funny because I think of Steven Schnitzer who played opposite Linda Dano talks about.
Okay. She was on it. Was she on a soap?
On being on another proctored game will be another world.
But she, you know, I don't think she felt confident in her audition.
But that's very funny.
(13:14):
Sal, she helped you raise up.
That's funny.
All of the ads are saying, so good to see you both.
You haven't changed a bit.
Wow, I haven't seen these two in years.
So, do you remember much about your audition, Susie?
Did you have to do work with any actors?
(13:36):
So, what I remember is the first, so like I said, I have auditioned twice.
The first time I came out, Alan Michael, who was Carl, was not available.
He was maybe doing an appearance, so I had to audition with another actor playing his role.
So, I remember that, you know, I've tried to remember the funny thing I used to say.
(13:58):
I remember saying to my manager, saying, "I'm going to work out," because there was like a really emotional scene.
And I was supposed to cry, and I remember saying, "I'm going to work on this all night."
And she was like, "Well, don't work too hard, because I don't want your eyes to be puffy."
So, 80s.
Yeah, I remember the guy, the actor being very giving, and he was actually somebody who came on later on.
(14:22):
His name was Jim Fletcher, maybe. His name was James.
And then the second time I auditioned, I think Carl was there, and I did work with him.
And I remember him being very giving also, very in terms of like making sure that we, it's the actor, were comfortable, and that kind of thing.
(14:43):
I don't think I remember that you had a whole Alan Michael storyline.
Yeah, it never, it never panned out into an Alan Michael thing.
It was supposed to be that, but it ended up being an interest.
I've been trying, Carl and I've talked a few times. I've been trying to get him to join.
Tell him, join.
This is what I remember about Carl. He was super funny.
(15:07):
No, I mean, he didn't ever do a lot of funny things on the show, but I remember him being a little bit shy about being funny and Beth, Harley, saying, "You're so funny, you need to kind of lean into that."
But that's what I remember about him, that he was a really funny guy.
Funny.
Well, Beth Ellers was very funny.
Yeah, yeah.
(15:29):
Just a little talent there too, right?
Little bit, just a little.
Joss and what do you remember about yours? Your audition?
I don't remember. I came in, I guess, the previous executive producer, James Wittley-Cal?
No, no, Cal.
(15:50):
Cal was still there when I was auditioning, but Denjell Phelps took over before I could start.
So, Cal was really nice, and I just remember, just feeling very, very supported.
We were put up in a hotel in New York, and they let us know by the end of the day who got it after the screen test.
(16:16):
Yeah, but I don't know what the other actor and I who were up against each other for the role were hanging out, waiting for the call.
I don't know why we didn't think it might be awkward once we found out who got it.
Yeah, you know.
Remember that was? Was that anybody who's working?
(16:39):
No, I don't remember ever running into her or hearing about her again, but there were actually three of us, the two of us from out of town were hanging out at the hotel.
But the other one was Sarah Lyman, who I had gone to college with, and we're still really good friends.
That's not out.
Yeah, so we were, we all three of us screened us. I remember, yeah, I saw her.
(17:03):
She had been a year ahead of me at the University of Virginia, and I always thought she was so beautiful, and she was starred in every stage play, and I was like, "Oh, God, she's auditioning for this."
But she's such a lovely person, and we've been close ever since.
But yeah, the other girl and I were like, "Hang out in my hotel room, and I get the call that I got in."
(17:24):
And I was like, "Dumb or so dumb."
Oh, that is really...
I've been doing this for five years, and I've never heard that before.
Yeah, you could be a user.
Young and dumb, like why don't you put ourselves in that position?
Well, good thing it wasn't the other way around.
You could have been more...
(17:45):
Seriously.
Your first days, do you remember where you nervous as all get out?
Well, I know I had the, you know, the pleasure and luxury of being Mark Derwin's little sister on the show, so he was just a doll, and you know, Alan, he's just the greatest guy.
(18:08):
And so he made me feel so, so welcome and taken care of and like...
Showed you the ropes, per se.
Big brother, yeah.
Yeah, it was really, really nice.
I felt really very well supported.
How about you?
I don't remember my first day, but one of the things I remember early on was going out with Morgan, a Dylan,
(18:32):
to just sort of get to know each other, and we were out in New York, you know, and you're like, you're 20-something years old, and I just remember him being like super like...
Can I say the word stoked?
He was stoked to be on guiding light, and I remember him like standing on the edge of the corner of the street, and then just like doing a jump and spin like...
(18:56):
Hey, you know, we're all kind of like...
But that's a really strong memory I have of him being like, "Hey, we're so opera actors."
That's hysterical.
What was living in New York like for you at such a young age for both of you?
(19:17):
Wow.
I really liked New York in my 20s.
I really liked it in my 20s. It felt like... I was telling Jocelyn about this earlier that actors in New York are treated way differently than actors in LA from my memory of it.
There was a time when I did the family feud.
(19:40):
It was like, you know, soap opera stars, men and women on family feud.
You go out there and you're treated like a real celebrity.
When you go out to LA.
Yeah, in LA. In New York we had these tiny little cubicles. You know, we were these tiny little dressing rooms.
And I guess what I'm saying is...
(20:03):
You know, you felt like a regular person in New York. You know, you didn't feel like, "Oh my God, I'm walking around the streets, and I'm a star."
But in LA, they kind of treated you like that.
And I liked that about New York. That it was very real, and it was very...
It was a very cool approach to you on the street. They were like, "Hey, I recognize you." You know, just like you're talking person to person.
It's funny because I went back and listened to your show, Jocelyn.
(20:28):
And Mark was talking sort of about, I think, doing young in the restless.
And about all of you at Guiding Light, you were all talking.
I mean, being in those small dressing rooms, you were just closer.
You worked harder on your scenes because you were just there to do the work.
(20:50):
You didn't have a luxurious dressing room to sit there and relax.
And you really were there to act.
Yeah. I think that's true. I did days of our lives for a little bit after Guiding Light.
And I thought maybe this was just because I wasn't one of the contract players.
(21:11):
I was only there for a couple of months. But I think it did have a different feel because you were so spread out.
You had more space and nicer facilities.
We were just like, in this cave on the, you know, 40th Street.
(21:32):
Yeah. I said they knocked it down and it's a big high rise, I believe.
I've gone back there to kind of look at it, but yeah, it's not there.
2,2,2,2,4, yeah. There's a funny story that I was on.
You know, I would just, again, take public transportation, go take the bus to Guiding Light.
And I was there with my old boyfriend.
(21:55):
And he were on the bus and some girl came up to me and she said, she was like,
oh my gosh, like she recognized me. And she was like, where are you going?
And I was like, oh, I'm actually going to work. And she goes, oh, what do you do?
It was a really weird thing where she kind of couldn't get in the room with an actor.
But I was like, that's like a providing life.
(22:18):
That's amazing.
The sort of acknowledging of what that was.
She thought you were like, you know, waiting table still trying to get there.
Yeah, people, you know, it's crazy.
Yeah, I have. I mean, questions for you. I was trying to remember because you got--
(22:41):
Jocelyn wrote down questions. I wrote down a lot for that.
I wanted to ask you about working with Jerry Verdorn because that was my next question.
Oh my gosh.
Oh, why? What about it? Well, just he was so lovely, so lovely.
And he's beloved.
And just getting ready for this show, I looked back at one of your old scenes with him.
(23:03):
And it was just so sweet because, you know, you were like his little niece.
Well, he was basically like my dad on the show. And yeah, he was--
it's so fun to think how-- when I look back, how young he really was at the time.
But he was always super complimentary. He was always-- he gave me a lot of confidence
(23:25):
because he would say super nice things about a scene that I had done or that kind of thing.
So I feel like he was very mentor-ish in that way. Very good.
What an impact, though, to have on you, you know, on a big job like getting light.
And, you know, didn't have to do it.
No, at all. No, at all.
(23:47):
I feel like a lot of the cast was, you know, they were really good to us.
And it's not like I didn't appreciate it at the time, but I appreciate it more as I get older,
looking back.
You know, I mean, I think we were, you know, pleasant, you know, nice young ladies.
(24:09):
But, you know, there's a lot we didn't know about the world.
And everybody was very generous, you know, with--
Well, but you also, you know, you're both parents now.
So like you think, you know, you-- you just said it jostled in backstage.
You have kids that-- the age you two were.
So to know that those adults were treating you as if you were their age and with respect, you know, that's--
(24:38):
It's important because it, you know, being on a big job like that, it's pressure.
Yeah. Well, there's a story that I tell a lot.
There's a director, her name is Joanne Sedgwick.
I love Joanne.
You know Joanne?
I do. I worked with Joanne. I love Joanne.
Well, I remember her saying to me, I was in my 20s, whatever time it was.
(25:01):
And she looked at me and she said, you know, 30s are much easier.
And I remember that big-- and I even tell that to people in the 20s now that it's so true.
20s are really tough.
I feel like she could feel that it was a tough time. It's a growing experience.
And it's so true. The 30s were so much easier and so much better.
(25:26):
But real words of wisdom there.
Yeah.
Really?
Are you friends with her on Facebook?
I'm not. She's around on Facebook. I got to find her.
I'm going to send her a message.
I'm not going to send her a message after.
Oh, please do. I think about her. And I say that story all the time to people.
(25:47):
I'm sure she would love, love, love to hear it.
Well, people in their 20s have said to me over and over, oh, really?
That's so great to hear because I'm finding it really hard to be in my 20s.
And everybody says 20s is so awesome, you know?
Yeah.
And it is tough. It's a tough time.
You know, I'm back.
I feel like there was so much less awareness about, you know, how to sort of, you know,
(26:14):
make sure that there was a good work, life balance and make sure that people's mental health was taking care of, you know, which just wasn't part of the conversation.
So, but looking back, I feel like people in their own ways were sort of reaching out and saying supportive things.
And I, you know, I went through so just in those three years on the show, I had so many life experiences.
(26:36):
I got very sick.
You know, had to have surgery.
I ended up meeting my husband. I got married. It's like that group of people saw me through this incredible formative time in my life.
And I'm really grateful.
Interesting. Susie, did you also work with the gentleman who played your dad?
(26:58):
I believe you did. Tom O'Rourke, who played Justin?
No, I didn't work with Tom. I worked with who's the one that played it after. I can't think of his name.
Oh, everybody else played Justin after?
Yes.
Yes.
Weirdly, I can't remember.
Chris Penock?
Yes. That's who it was.
(27:19):
Wow.
Yes.
That's who I work with.
Yeah.
I'm going to look up who that is. I don't remember who that is.
Well, Chris Penock, I don't know if you've ever seen this movie.
I was telling Jocelyn earlier, the movie Francis starring Jessica Lang, where she played Francis Farmer.
He played her first husband in that movie.
(27:42):
Oh, his face.
I was asking him about it.
I was very familiar.
I wonder if Tom had passed by then or just couldn't do it.
Possibly.
As I grew up on him playing Justin, I mean, I loved Jerry.
He would remember a lot of people talked about him.
Yeah.
Jerry and him were absolutely amazing together.
(28:05):
And says he was still alive. See, the fans do know.
No, no, no, it's amazing.
Yeah, absolutely.
Jocelyn, what do you think you learned from your brother, Mark?
Oh, so many things.
And I'm so excited. I've moved back to LA.
I heard.
(28:26):
So we're actually going to have lunch later this week.
Please take a photograph.
Oh, yes.
For sure.
I'll remember to do that.
You know, Mark, as you know, I mean, he came to acting after working in construction.
And he had a little bit of life experience.
(28:48):
He wasn't 20 or 21.
Like we were, it was maybe 28.
And he never lost his groundedness, you know, in terms of having just like been a working guy.
So I just think that was incredibly influential on me because like Susie said, the New York actor, he was never, never about his ego.
(29:13):
Yeah.
You know, it was great.
You know, and people would, you know, throw themselves at him.
I mean, I remember I'd go to these appearances and they wouldn't ask me anything about my character.
They'd just be like, what's it like to work with AC Mallet?
Well, I remember one time sleeping with Mark's dog.
Oh, I think I watched his dog one time, Bill.
(29:37):
I think his name was Bill or Bob.
And I was like, those watching his dog and I slept with Mark's dog.
So, no, no, no.
That's a miracle.
Back back in the day, I somehow was hired to do those personal appearances with some of the actors.
And I went with Mark somewhere.
We went to, I think the Kentucky Derby possibly.
(30:00):
That was the first time, you know, he is a great, and he had AC was a great character.
He was guiding light.
You know, they wrote for, here's a trivia question I came up with for you.
Okay.
I'm sure the stands will know this, but I'm not sure if you will.
What did AC Mallet stand for?
(30:23):
What was that character's real name?
No, no idea.
Oh, yes.
Alex Carrera.
Anthony.
Anthony, you're right.
What is it?
Anthony.
Anthony Camilletti, wasn't it?
Oh, you know.
You're dangling.
Yeah.
I know.
Yeah.
That's Anthony Camilletti.
(30:44):
Tony.
That's why my character called him Tony.
And I'm Julie Camilletti.
Yeah.
And Kendra said, Mallet and Julie had a very believable sibling relationship for Soaks.
Oh, that is so nice.
I really appreciate that because I mean, I loved working with him.
And he's, you know, as you know, Alan, he's so funny.
(31:07):
Oh, my God.
Truly one of the funny.
I was watching some of your interviews from earlier and just the stuff that he comes up with is so funny.
He is really, he's, he's, he's, he's sterical.
And then, Mr said, yes, they had an awesome brother and sister, and Jocelyn also had great chemistry with Melissa Hayden.
(31:29):
Yes.
And we really did.
And we were, we became friends too.
And I know when we talked last year, when we were on your show together, we got to talk about some of that.
But that was really gold because we got to be at odds, you know.
And that is the most, you know, the richest stuff for scenes, you know.
(31:55):
I was remembering.
I remember you two, you know.
I know.
But no, I don't think it would have worked.
We were like these two nice girls.
We were like, hi, hi, hi.
I like your hair.
What surprised you most about doing daytime?
That's a really good question.
(32:17):
What's the pr, you know what?
For me, I was so involved in the stories.
I don't know if you felt the same way.
But I would be so excited to get the script and to see what, you know, because, you know, I remember relating this to Sex and the City,
where I was like, you become kind of that character, where you don't really, any more, have to work on your backstory or anything like that.
(32:46):
And you're so involved in it that you're reading the script, you're already emotional about it.
Like I remember when the executive producer called me in and said, you know, you're going to have an accident.
You know, one of those kind of things.
And you're going to be in a wheelchair.
And I remember almost crying because he was telling me I was going to be in this accident.
(33:07):
So I think that's that surprised me about how involved I was and how easy it was
in terms of like just being there and just reading the script and, you know, you're that character for whatever.
I remember Sam being in the wheelchair. What was the accident?
(33:28):
Let's see if I can remember.
Riva, that sort of thing happening where she, I'm not sure to be honest, she drove off a bridge.
I'm sorry, I'm laughing, but she was having some sort of like delusion or something and drove off a bridge thinking she was running to.
(33:51):
Oh, right. Were you in the car at the time?
Yes, I was in the car.
Oh, right. I remember totally totally.
Of course.
She was in the show.
Right? Oh, yes.
She was in the show.
And that was how they were.
So she drove off with postpartum depression.
That's see, you know better than me.
(34:13):
Yeah, yeah.
I just needed my memory jogged.
But yeah, you got it.
And then I were, were you in Florida?
Yes.
Yeah, it was very fun, very nice to go away and do something.
Yeah, it was Kim, Robert, Bethellers, Morgan and yourself.
Yeah.
Wow. Oh, yeah. I mean, Jocelyn, you should look for that because that is definitely online.
(34:41):
And I remember seeing that scene.
Like I remember one of your really emotional scenes where you're in the hospital bed and you like throw your food train.
I remember that, but isn't it good?
But yeah, that's funny that you're saying that about getting to your character.
I was going to say something a little less deep, which is that it does get a lot easier because the memory is like a muscle.
(35:06):
And you get so used to like learning the lines because that's the biggest question everybody always asks.
It's like, how do you remember all those lines?
Yeah.
You know, you film, you know, entire episode every day and just said it gets easier because you, you really work that muscle.
It's so funny because the speed back then is like slow compared to what they do today to save money.
(35:30):
Yeah, explain.
Basically, you know, you usually back in the day, it was one show a day.
Right?
You know, it could be two, could be six, you know, you might be doing scenes for six shows in a day.
(35:53):
I do.
You know, you also had dry rehearsal, then camera block, right?
Yep.
Yep.
Then you would take.
I don't think there's many shows that have a dry rehearsal at all.
Not anymore, huh?
No, I think it's, you know, they probably have camera blocking.
(36:15):
And then there you go.
And they a lot of times try to get it in that one take.
And it's really all, but you know, money.
Time for me today.
And I actually had a very sort of unexpected opportunity when I first moved back here to audition for the Bowl in the beautiful.
(36:36):
So I got a little reintroduction to this new world of, you know, multiple shows every day.
And, you know, it was a little multiple shows every day, especially with a half hour show too.
Yeah, half hour show makes it a little easier to.
Yeah.
Was that nerve wracking going back to it?
(37:02):
No, actually, it felt really good. It was like, you know, like riding a bike.
It felt really good.
I remember back in the day, we'd always try to do it in one take anyway.
So, yeah.
Of course.
Absolutely.
Tim was asking, do you girls have a favorite scene that you did at the show at Gotting Like?
That's a nice question.
(37:26):
I was sort of thinking about the one where Dylan and I was like a, it was like a 50s kind of thing in a diner.
And Dylan gave me a ring and I had to take the ring and I had to throw it and say, "We're not fit anymore."
I remember that.
But I also, like I said, was such an emotional time because like I said, I had lived through this character.
(37:50):
And it was just so, you know, it was so sad to break up with him in real life.
But that's one of my memories, a really strong memory of like having to break up with Dylan.
I guess I'd have to say, you know, when I had the whole storyline also with Morgan,
or we were about to get married and then Bridget, you know, blew my cover and announced that I had just talked with Hart the night before.
(38:16):
And so I got, you know, I was in my wedding dress and I got tossed down like, "Duck Morgan, Dylan, toss me down."
Like it hurts feet and that was awesome.
That is so funny.
I mean, it's just so exciting to have like that meaty stuff, you know?
Like in the beginning I was so, you know, so innocent and it was like, I don't know if you remember.
(38:42):
My whole storyline was like, I lost my bracelet and Hart found it.
That was like the most exciting.
That was like after weeks.
Jeff Phillips was your first heart, right?
Yes, yes.
So yeah, then, you know, things heated up when Leonard Stab came on, but as you know, it was pretty short-lived.
(39:08):
But yeah, yeah, he was such a charismatic guy.
Yeah, he really was.
He really was.
Tall Brooklyn dude says, "Loved loved Jocelyn's 180 from Julie going from Frail Hiroen to fiery villainess."
(39:29):
Plus your brief delicious turn on days of our lives.
Oh, thank you so much.
I love that it's tall Brooklyn guy.
I remember going, going getting that turn and I got to work with Melina because for a while I was trying to steal Frank.
I was like, the babysitter trying to steal Frank and I like snuck and got in bed with him.
(39:54):
And everything.
It's a Melina and I had to have some scenes that were like a little tense and nothing like on the Bridget level.
But that was really fun because we were, we were really good friends.
So, you know, just meaty stuff is so great.
Was there someone there that you always wished you had more with?
(40:15):
Oh, that's a good question.
I mean, I always just, I always thought, I always loved Sherry Stringfield's work.
I always just thought she was such an effortless presence and strength.
And so, you know, I got, so I've never had like a real storyline with her.
(40:37):
Yeah, you must have gotten to work with her.
Was she there, Susan when you were there?
She must have been.
Yeah, yeah, she sure was.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know what I always admired about Sherry was that she did things on her own sort of,
she didn't, she didn't give in to what everybody expected of her.
(41:00):
You know, she was very good at drawing boundaries, that kind of thing.
Yeah.
Yeah, very self-conscious.
A lot of talent came through those doors, huh?
We really were, we were on at a great time.
I mean, I know, you know, every period has great cast and you can point to so many that came after us that I know have been, you know, really, really successful.
(41:23):
But I feel like, you know, we had some really great, like really accomplished actors like Maeve Concade and Morning Garrett and, I mean, just so many, you know, that, I mean, it was just real.
Who was, you know, the, who's the woman who, she's, you know, really famous, but she played like the maid.
(41:49):
Ginger, Alison, Janney.
Alison, Janney, I mean, Alison, Janney.
She played, she played Alexandra as maid.
Oh, I didn't, I had no idea.
Do a search for that because she, you will be your fan.
When was that?
Well, you were all, yes.
I mean, just like such great, great, great.
(42:11):
Well, I worked with someone who played a maid, her name was Frances Foster.
Do you know her?
Oh, yeah.
Frances Foster, you have to look her up. She was in a raisin in the sun on Broadway.
And I remember being, you know what I remember her and the other guy who played the butler.
And I don't remember his name, but we went to the, not what do you call the, the something O'Matt.
(42:34):
They used to have these, like, laundromat thing?
Yeah, but they were food.
What'd you call auto-matte?
You didn't have maybe an auto-matte.
You know, the food and you'd come out of a machine.
We all three went together on lunch break.
Such a random thing.
But yeah, it was an auto-matte, which I don't think exists anymore.
(42:55):
No, and I'm shocked that there was one in New York.
Yeah, for sure, near the studio.
Yeah.
Wow, that's wild.
Yeah.
Vincester says, my favorite scene with Sam was the Christmas episode with her and Dylan.
I think it was 1989.
I don't know what that is specifically.
It is either this Christmas episode.
(43:17):
I was thinking of one where, I don't know, there was, there was always just heartbreak wasn't there.
Yeah.
Not exactly working out to that kind of thing.
There really was.
Kayla just said, oh my god, it's Julian Samantha from Godning Light.
You ladies are still beautiful.
Alan, I feel like I'm at a family reunion and I'm watching live.
(43:38):
Oh, hello.
I have to say, I do relate to that because like I said, it was a big fan of As the World Turns and the same thing.
I would feel the same thing if Lily was here with Bolden or Dustin or you know, all of that.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I've got another trivia question for everybody.
Uh-oh, okay.
So, who filled in for me for several episodes when I was sick?
(44:06):
Oh, why?
And I think it was around Christmas, Tony.
What, a famous actress?
I know who it is.
Oh, let's see.
Hold on.
I need to go to the bottom here.
Hold on.
And it was one of those like today, the part of Julie Kimmeletti will be played by.
Totally, totally.
Wow, this person was quick.
(44:27):
Cool, blue, 71's, Mira Servino.
Yes.
That's a really slim one.
That's what I'm talking about.
That's what I'm talking about.
Yeah.
She was just a young thing, you know.
Well, and I can also say, you know who auditioned for the part of Samantha Marlar, another famous actress,
Callista Flalker.
Oh my gosh.
Oh my gosh.
(44:48):
You know, Callista actually did that in light.
Well, actually, she also did a small role on guiding light as well.
Like a babysitter.
Yeah.
Something on the phone.
But yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I'm really thinking about you guys look alike.
Oh, okay.
You know, that with the blonde hair you do.
Yeah.
Vincester says, I think Dylan's truck would in start and Sam came out and I think they hugged.
(45:14):
Might have been the Christmas show.
Oh.
I feel emotional hearing about that.
But when you think about Morgan for both of you, what comes to mind?
Oh God, he's just so.
He's one of a kind, right?
He's one of a kind.
(45:35):
He's so unique and he's so funny.
And he totally wears his heart on his sleeve.
Like he's just like a giving and genuine and emotional.
But I just remember one of a really good turning point on the show for me was getting stuck in the elevator with him in the characters.
And it became, that was when we started like our love story.
(45:58):
And he just cracked me up so much because he was supposed to be like claustrophobic.
You know, so we just, you know, we did this whole, like this whole sequence in this elevator.
And he was claustrophobic.
And I remember I was like, it was hot in there.
So I did like time my shirt up and let my midriff show.
(46:20):
Sure.
But we just laughed so hard.
And I was like the first time I really got to know him like because we were working together daily, you know, like no, no him.
And he's just, he's so fun.
So I'm scared, you know, I mean, because I saw that recently, right?
(46:42):
There was something he posted recently.
It's crazy.
I remember going to Florida and him saying, you need to get new suitcases.
He's looking at suitcases.
That's an everywhere.
You remember when people say, you know, pithy things, right?
Pithy things.
What about what, what, what, what, what you always laugh about what I said to you?
(47:05):
What was that?
What, what, what I was?
Oh, she wants me to tell you about that.
I was, but she said just, I guess at one point I was like, Susie.
No, Jocelyn was very into like helping me with my look.
And there was one time Jocelyn looked at me and she said, let's talk about your eyebrows.
(47:29):
I don't know why that's so funny, but it is.
I don't even remember that.
Yeah, we need to talk about that.
The other thing I remember about Morgan though is he was always working on his music in the dressing room.
And I remember he would play some songs for me that he had written in recorded and be like, what do you think?
And I was like so flattered that he would even ask because I don't know anything about music.
(47:51):
And I sort of say like, how's this thing?
You know, he'd be like, that's really, it was just he was very, very sweet about that.
And I know he still, he still does his music, his daughters, a big musician.
So that's really cool.
Oh, yeah, his daughter is quite successful.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah, I think he told me when he and I sat down, it might have been a Garth Brooks concert in New York that really sparked his love.
(48:20):
I know his, I think his brother was into music as well, but I think there was some.
Well, he did musical theater too.
I know we saw him in Pippin in New York.
I remember.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, we're good fun.
And we're asking, did you ever get to meet his mama?
(48:44):
You know, I feel like I did, briefly, when she came by the show.
Of course, I admired her work for years and years and just worshiped her from everything from when she was on Malcolm in the middle to the voice she played in the Miyazaki movie.
(49:05):
She's one of the pirates in the Miyazaki animated movie, which I can't remember which one it is, but she's just, she was.
Well, I remember him saying to me that his mom said, gave me a compliment and said she's a really good listener.
And I remember being like, of course, leechman said, I'm a good listener.
(49:29):
I don't think I ever met her, but I think I just heard that compliment.
And I remember that my whole life.
Who wouldn't?
Yeah, right?
Seriously, who wouldn't?
We have to talk about this photograph.
Yeah.
Talk about today.
Let's fast forward to modern era and your business you own.
(49:52):
How long have you, so it's Deb and Suzy.
What does it say?
Do you get the bodies?
Get it? Do you?
So it's like, I really wanted it to be Debbie does Pilates.
Do you get that?
Yes, I do.
I get my name in there.
So it's Deb and Suzy do Pilates.
I mean, maybe we get that, but we don't.
(50:13):
Since my daughter was little, I was kind of like, what am I doing next?
What's next?
And I've always loved fitness and I love working out.
And so I sort of started to pursue the Pilates thing and then really started to love it.
And what I love about it is that, you know, what we've created here is a beautiful community of people from mid-80s to 20s.
(50:39):
You know what I mean?
That are doing the same thing and being able to move and it's just been really rewarding for me.
And it's been awesome to see that at my age, which is 56, being able to start something new, I mean, I guess you relate, right?
To be able to go, hey, I can start a business.
(51:00):
It can be successful.
I can learn how to do things that I didn't know how to do it.
All, which is like social media and stuff like that.
And also--
How long have you been doing it so far?
So it's almost been a year that we've been open.
So April will be one year.
So really, really new.
Amazing.
You taught Pilates for a long time.
(51:21):
Yeah, I've taught Pilates for almost 10 years, I would say, but just starting our business was like, you know, and my partner Debbie was like,
"It's almost time for me to retire."
Am I doing this?
And I mean, like I said, I just realized that at any age, you can do something new and really feel rewarded and really feel like you're affecting people's lives in a really positive way.
(51:45):
Well, we are going to come back to this because there's an actress named Nancy St. Alvin who played Michelle Bauer at the end of the show, opened her own yoga studio.
Beth Chamberlain who played Beth Reigns owns a fitness studio.
So we might have to get all the guiding light ladies who own fitness studios to get this.
(52:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's very cool.
Well, this young man wanted to stop by and say hello to you both.
What?
Hey!
More of a hand.
That's so funny.
It was on the tip of my tongue yesterday to message you and say, "Hey, let's surprise Jocelyn."
[laughter]
But what you were just saying right now, Susie, the reason I wanted to come in a couple minutes early, my calendar didn't alert me, but anyway, my fault.
(52:37):
But I was just writing an email for this course that I'm making right now and it's all about, you know, it basically starts out with, you know, I was 54 years old, just saying, you know, Purpose, Rutterless, Stuck, you know, What Now?
Right.
And that was when I decided to walk away from the fire department and, you know, try to like actually live with a deeper purpose and stuff like that.
(53:03):
So totally in line with what you're saying and I think that at this point in life, kind of after you've had the kids and got the job and did all the things you're supposed to do, it's like, "K now what?"
You know, I want to have Purpose still.
And then being older too, you know, when we're young, we feel like this is our world, you know, and then pretty soon it's not your world anymore.
(53:26):
It's a whole 'nother generation's world.
I've lost, you know, I'm not relevant anymore.
And that's not true. It's not true.
No.
There's a woman in my class who's 83 years old and comes to Pilates like three times a week and is like still completely working, still has her grandchildren still has a social life.
(53:49):
And, you know, I think of my dad and my mom in their 50s and what I thought they were, you know, like you said, irrelevant.
I think I thought that.
Yeah.
Not anymore.
Yeah.
Well, there's a lot to learn.
And I relate because I mean that was, you know, part of moving back to LA last year was, you know, looking at this next chapter or this, you know, third act of my life.
(54:15):
And just realizing that there were things that I wanted to do with my writing and, you know, that as much as I love to say Lewis, you know, I needed to be here.
Yeah.
Is there a dross of one?
Well, my daughter who's still in college is, is, you know, based with me here.
But my older daughter who's also a musician is still in St. Louis, but you know, I'm working on it.
(54:42):
Well, Morgan, one of the fans.
I'm happy you're here.
One of the fans just said the triangle, go over now.
The triangle.
The triangle.
The triangle.
The triangle.
No, three.
They never got.
Oh, that's so dirty.
I didn't hear anything.
(55:05):
Oh, this is the triangle.
This is the triangle that we could have had.
Also, Morgan, what do you remember about working with these two?
Who do you like better?
Who do you like better, Morgan?
It's easy.
Hi, I don't know who said that, but.
(55:28):
Well, we just, we're so long, you know.
Yeah.
Do I like that?
I'm going to a stupid question.
And I'm so, do you, too?
As you haven't heard from you in a year, so you must be doing really well with Pilates.
Really good.
Really good.
(55:49):
That both look amazing.
You too.
Yeah, well, it's great to see you too, my friend.
You too, Morgan.
You too.
Thanks for stopping by, my friend.
Yeah, well, I'll catch up with you two on the flip side on the other side.
Yeah, we'll love to everybody.
(56:12):
Take care.
That was so awesome.
No.
Isn't that funny?
I really, really was going to message him and say, that's surprise, Jocelyn.
Well, yeah, I thought that surprised both of you.
Do you miss acting, Susie?
No.
I don't think so.
(56:34):
I mean, you know, kind of the end of it for me was when I was pregnant with my daughter.
That's the way I always tell it.
So I was 42, I think, when I had my daughter.
And I just thought, you know, I don't want the stress anymore.
To me, it was just stress.
You know, it's very, it's like, you know, interviewing for a job every day.
(56:57):
I've got to bless you all who do it.
Yes.
You know, and I think it was just it was, it had lived out its purpose.
And I was very, very into it and very involved in it when I was younger in terms of, you know, my involvement in being emotionally available to it.
(57:20):
But I think when my daughter, when I had my daughter, I was just ready for that.
That was my next chapter.
And I was done with it.
And Jocelyn, are you fully back in?
You know, I'm keeping an open mind, but I'm not actively pursuing it.
Like the bold and the beautiful thing just came up.
I'm really staying focused on my writing.
(57:43):
And it's not that I wouldn't enjoy acting, but to put the energy into pursuing the auditions and the roles would take up all my time.
And I really have so much sort of on the front burner with screenplays and novels and stuff that I'm trying to get over the finish line.
So, so I'm keeping an open mind, but not, not actively going after anything.
(58:10):
Well, sometimes, you know, that's when the doors open too.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, I mean, my gosh, have we not all at this age like been surprised by how things have turned out in life?
Yeah.
I never thought I'd be stuck with hers.
I know.
One of my best friends, whatever.
And back together, you know, back in New City.
(58:35):
It's so awesome, by the way, I'm so happy to have Jocelyn back.
Yeah, that's really, it's really been so meaningful to me.
I mean, it's so, you know, Susie, you say like, you know, growing up on soaps.
I mean, those characters were family.
It is really nice to see that behind the scenes, it's the same thing.
(58:57):
Yeah, it really is.
And you know, I, I mean, this is not a shameless plug, but I do have a new sub stack that is called,
all I really needed to know I learned in soap operas.
And part of, you know, I think getting older, I have really come to appreciate how impactful soap operas have been in culture,
(59:19):
how, you know, how meaningful the storytelling is.
And of course, you know, the experience of getting to know the actual people that you work with.
But just as a form of storytelling, I appreciate it so much more now.
There's a lot of my Pilates class.
There's a one of my Pilates class who talks about that.
That she said, when I do my, I still am watching days of our lives.
(59:41):
She said, it's playing, she's my age.
And she's like, it just plays in my background.
And these are my people that I want to see what's going on with them.
Same thing.
It really is.
Well, I'm going to read your sub stack.
Send me the link so I don't forget, Jocelyn.
And I'll share it so everybody can see it as well.
I'll share it.
Right.
(01:00:02):
I'd love to know what, yeah, I think because I'm trying to think of topics.
I'd love to know what topics people want to hear about.
It's so well written, by the way.
So well written.
Well, I know you last time you were here, you were working on stuff.
So keep keep me posted.
You'll have to come back when that book is published or that screenplay is.
I would love to.
Is out there, but it's funny because I'm going to speak at a pop culture thing in October.
(01:00:32):
Sort of about soap operas.
It's a bowling green college or university.
They had reached out to me and.
Where is that?
Where's bowling green in Ohio, I believe.
Yeah, I think bowling green.
Yeah.
Yeah, bowling green university in bowling green Ohio.
(01:00:57):
Wow, that'd be great.
That's a terrific thing.
Interesting.
Yeah, I've never really done it.
But you know, I and Jill Laurie Hurst.
I don't think you know Jill.
She was she was probably here's a very funny story, but Jill was probably the receptionist to to to east 44th when you were there who.
(01:01:22):
I don't know.
Who is the head.
And then she might have also worked for Jill.
No, I don't know if she worked for Jill felt she might have.
But she ended up being the head writer by the end of the show.
Wow.
Interesting.
And she's going to be you're saying she might join me because she lives in not far.
But you know guiding light.
I mean, she was the receptionist and got hired inside and.
(01:01:46):
So funny.
Yeah.
It's a while like the school world.
Yeah.
Please, let's before we go, I want to get a picture of us.
So I'm going to miss down.
Smile.
The eyebrows good.
One.
Let's see if I got that.
(01:02:11):
See if the eyes are open for all of us.
Or the eyebrows.
Yeah, great.
That's fantastic.
Thank you.
Thank you.
So much.
Thank you, Ellen.
It was so fun for inviting us and having to.
Jill is watching.
So sorry.
She was a writing assistant by 1994 and then was head writer and she's my dear friend.
(01:02:35):
Oh my god.
She's watching right now.
Very cool.
Yeah.
I remember her name.
Oh my gosh.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
Crazy small world.
And if I get Carl here someday, Susie will have to surprise him.
So fun.
Yeah.
I want to talk about how funny he was and he didn't want to go for the funny, but he was so funny.
(01:02:57):
Oh, what are you because fans had asked before I forget what you remember about Grand Alexander?
What's what?
Grand who played Philip.
I think I had a big crush on him.
Don't tell him.
But I think I had a big brother, but I had a big crush because I thought he was so handsome.
But he was also very.
I just experienced him as having a lot of integrity.
(01:03:21):
Like really, really caring about the work and really, really caring about that everybody.
And I think it's about that everybody was comfortable.
You know what I mean?
He's a good man and he has aged gracefully.
Blue for a kill.
Still looks.
Pretty much.
Still looks the same.
Yeah.
Pretty much.
And Jill wanted me to say a big fan of both of your ladies work.
(01:03:46):
Oh, that's nice.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
And thank you for watching.
And even though you're probably watching more for Alan's.
Yeah.
That's a good friend.
You know, you've seen me enough.
Thank you so much, ladies.
This was really great.
Thank you so much for having us.
Thank you.
That's the luck out there.
And we'll talk about a health, you know, a fitness show sometimes.
Let's know about that.
(01:04:07):
And thanks for everyone for tuning in.
I appreciate it.
Absolutely.
Bye.
Thanks everybody for joining today.
I hope you enjoyed.
Thank you to Susie Jostleon and Morgan.
For that little surprise.
If you haven't yet subscribed to my YouTube channel, you can do so down below.
Turn on the notifications for reminders of all upcoming shows.
(01:04:30):
And remember, if you'd like to stream audio versions, just search the locker room on your favorite podcast app.
Have a great evening, everybody.
Thanks again.
And be safe.
[Music]
[Music]
(00:07):
Hi everyone, happy to have you here with me this evening in the locker room, I'm Alan Locker.
And tonight we're bringing together two talented actress and dear friends who first met on the set of Guiding Light.
Susie Coat Chikolini and Jocelyn C. Grave.
Susie and Jocelyn won over audiences with their portrayals of Samantha Marlar and Julie Cameletti.
(00:28):
And their friendship has lasted far beyond their time in Springfield.
With impressive career spanning TV, film, and more, they have plenty of stories to share about their journeys and entertainment and their lasting friendship.
Please help me welcome Susie Coat Chikolini and Jocelyn C. Grave.
Hi ladies and nice!
(00:50):
Great to see you Alan, so happy to see you. So thank you so much for being here.
No, we're so thrilled that you thought to have us on together.
And that is a real treat for us and that we can be in the same space.
That is a treat. That doesn't happen very often here.
(01:12):
Talk about your friendship. It amazes me. I mean you guys have really been friends since...
Since how many years?
How many years?
22.
We like 22.
I think I was about 22.
Now I'm 56.
Yeah!
There you go.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Jocelyn had recently posted a blog about our friendship that I thought was so cool and sort of like inspiring 22-year-olds to say,
(01:41):
"Oh my god, it can happen. You can be friends with someone for this long."
Yeah, and especially because I was remembering that the friendship has, you know,
it's not like we've talked every day for the last 30-something years.
There have been periods where we're more in touch and less in touch, but it's always been like one of those friends that when you talk again,
(02:02):
you just pick up like nothing's happened.
You go deep, like deep, deep, deep, immediately.
But, you know, then there have been other times where like we were roommates and we were together all the time.
So it's just Epton Float, depending on kind of what was going on in our lives, what cities we've been.
Husbands, kids, stuff like that.
(02:23):
It's so interesting because you just reminded me that a couple of hours ago I got a message from Melanie Smith who used to be on As the World Turns.
Yeah.
And Melanie Smith and Mary Ellen Stewart, who was also on As the World Turns, have sort of--
Give it to me what their characters are.
Melanie played Emily Stewart back in the day.
(02:44):
Okay.
And Mary Ellen played for any use.
She replaced Julie and Moore in that character.
Do you guys, Mark Lewis, was he guiding light when you were there?
Mindy's husband, Corday?
Yes, but not for very-- we didn't overlap that long.
Did Mary Ellen and Mark have been married for decades and have five, I think?
(03:08):
Oh, wow.
Have beautiful children.
But--
Well, you're an As the World Turns fan.
Well, it's so funny that you say that because I was before I was on guiding light, I was a huge As the World Turns fan.
I was way into Lily and Dustin and Holden.
I wanted to get home from school and want to read, you know, see what was going on with them.
And the funny thing is when I got on guiding light, Lily--
(03:32):
I can't remember her name right now-- Martha Stewart.
Martha Burn.
Martha Burn.
Martha Burn was there because she was dating someone on our show.
And I was like, I called my sister and was like, "Oh my god, she's here! She's here!"
She was dating-- she might have been dating Alan Michael Spalding, Carla Evans.
Yes, yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Susie, I grew up on both guiding light and world turns.
(03:54):
My mother learned to speak English, watching both shows, and then I ended up working for both.
So--
What did your mother speak?
Dutch.
My mom moved here from Holland.
My dad's mother had been-- had learned the same way, so it was her introduction to the English language.
So at the same time, you know the whole storyline I'm assuming.
(04:15):
Oh, everything.
Everything.
Yeah.
Good stuff.
Yeah.
I, on the other hand, never watched soap operas.
I remember in college my roommate watched on my children.
And so I come in and just try and like figure out what was going on and just give up.
That's-- yeah, I mean some people do and some people don't.
(04:37):
It's really bizarre.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's crazy.
I always had the most interesting interactions with fans in living in New York, though,
because you know, you just be walking around on the street and there'd be like this like seven-foot tall guy walk by me.
It was obviously a basketball player.
And, you know, talk about like how we enjoy the show, you know, or say something in passing.
(05:04):
And I guess, you know, because athletes have different schedules where they could be home during the day.
You know, so you see like people--
Yeah.
You wouldn't expect, you know.
One of my first jobs was a page at ABC and I had to give the Cleveland Indians baseball team a tour of all my children.
Because of that reason, that during the day they had extra time and they would watch with their wives and they got--
(05:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's so funny because people really didn't-- especially back then didn't talk about their love-- you know, men didn't talk about their love of soap.
Right.
Do you remember meeting for the first time?
I don't think you do, but--
We were talking about it, but I don't remember.
I remember coming into the hair and makeup room and seeing her.
She was already in the chair, you know, and just being like, "Oh, somebody in my age, we have to be friends."
(05:56):
And I must have like, you know, forced myself on her.
No, we won't.
I remember us bonding over that we were both dating older men.
They were like 30.
And we were like, "Yes!"
Oh, yeah, we have to really talk about how to do it because older guys.
(06:17):
Oh, my God, 30 was so old.
But that's where we sort of connected, saying that both of our way friends were way older than us.
I love that.
I love that.
But, you know, we didn't really overlap much in terms of our work on the show.
You know, I think I was sort of on my way out as she was on her way in.
(06:38):
Yeah.
In fact, we were even trying to--
And that makes your friendship even more incredible.
Why?
I know, right?
Because we didn't have time.
You didn't overlap.
You were on your way out and you really bonded.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was really amazing.
I was trying to think if maybe if any fans knew, because I can't remember if we were ever even in a scene together.
(07:01):
I thought maybe like a party scene, but Susie couldn't remember.
Oh, that's interesting.
I'm glad you said it out loud because if they're listening and they are, there's nobody better than somebody who let us know because we don't remember.
I love that.
Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah, that's crazy to think that, you know, you don't even know that.
(07:24):
Which is even more.
I mean, like you didn't work together.
You just bonded and that, you know.
Yeah, we were the same age.
We were both from LA.
So we'd both auditioned through LA.
Yeah.
And both had boyfriend's in LA, right?
Same thing.
Oh, wow, at the same time.
Wow.
That's great.
And then--
Yeah, I guess you lived on the--
(07:45):
a breeze side and I lived on the upper west side.
So we'd meet in Central Park, you know, halfway and like have like little sandwiches and bagels and just talk about life.
What are the fans can says I don't remember either.
But hopefully people will rack their brains.
Who or what led you both into arts to this field to acting?
(08:11):
Hmm.
You weren't you kind of a child, you co-actor?
So, you know, when I was growing up, I grew up on the Central Coast in California.
And I started at Children's Theater Company when I was a little kid.
I think I was just always drawn to it.
And I would go to LA.
I remember when I was in high school, I auditioned for Fame, which was, you know, the one with Nana Jackson, the TV show.
(08:39):
Oh.
And was, you know, accepted as an alternate dancer.
And then I went to UCLA and I remember being at UCLA and barely paying attention to my classes and just auditioning for things.
And that was, and I was getting a big talent search for your role.
Yeah. On guiding light, so I was, I think I was 20 years old.
(09:02):
TV guide was having this big and I didn't realize this, but it was having this big talent search for my role.
And so they had a big sort of to do about the audition process and, you know, what it took to be an actor and all that stuff.
Yeah. So I went to my first plane ride, never flown on a plane before ever in my life, was to audition for Guiding Light.
(09:29):
And then they had a second, I think they needed to like, whittle the plane field down and then they had second auditions.
So I flew out again, my second plane ride.
What was it?
Well, I mean, guiding light has a lot of history with you. I love that.
Yeah. Yeah, totally.
It really does. Do you remember who you auditioned with?
(09:51):
I mean, casting director, it wasn't Betty Ray. Was it still?
It was Betty Ray. Yes, it was.
Yeah.
Interesting, you know.
She was really, really, you know what?
This is what I remember. I remember there was a scene when I auditioned where you had to scream.
And then I remember going in there and saying, how's your ears to Betty Ray?
(10:14):
Because, you know, she had so many people screaming in her ear and she was like, what do you mean?
And I was like, because of all the ears thing.
And she was really like easy to get along with.
Oh, yeah, she was so sweet.
Yeah. So sweet.
And Jocelyn, for you, what led you down this road?
You know, I really, I took some acting classes.
(10:36):
I did a little in high school and I took a few classes in college and did a couple small productions.
But it wasn't until I graduated that I was like, I've always been a writer as well.
And I sort of thought, like, I don't feel like I'm ready to sit down and just write all day and be all by myself.
I feel like I want to be out doing things.
(10:58):
I don't know what I was thinking. But I was like, I'm going to give this acting thing a try.
So I remember I read a book.
Like, that was, you know, that was the only thing you could go to back then was a book.
There was some book about how to audition, you know, Michael shirt left.
Maybe.
It was very well known by Michael shirt left about what to wear to audition.
That kind of thing.
(11:20):
Yeah.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
When you think back on your career, whether it's a teacher, an agent who are some of the mentors who helped guide the way for you.
I had a great acting coach out in LA named Doug Warhead.
I think he's still coaching.
(11:42):
But he really made it seem so accessible.
He would just sort of say, like, you know, you don't have to think about these roles as like these huge all or nothing life or death moments.
You can, you know, you can do, you're ready now to do a small role.
You could do that role of three lines. Don't you think you can handle that and I'd be like, yeah, I can handle that.
(12:05):
Like just boosting our confidence.
Like that it's about sort of working at the craft and being, you know, a working actor.
It's not about like this all or nothing making it or not making it.
I think that was really a great mindset.
Well, and I had this acting teacher named Sal Dano, who I don't know if you've ever heard of someone named Linda Dano.
(12:28):
Yeah.
I think they were married at one point.
Yeah.
And he was an acting teacher in LA and when I was auditioning for Guiding Light, he helped me with the audition.
And he was, you know, very instrumental in terms of boosting my confidence about the role.
I was like, you could do this, you know, and really help me with the audition actually for Guiding Light.
(12:52):
That's so funny because I think of Steven Schnitzer who played opposite Linda Dano talks about.
Okay. She was on it. Was she on a soap?
On being on another proctored game will be another world.
But she, you know, I don't think she felt confident in her audition.
But that's very funny.
(13:14):
Sal, she helped you raise up.
That's funny.
All of the ads are saying, so good to see you both.
You haven't changed a bit.
Wow, I haven't seen these two in years.
So, do you remember much about your audition, Susie?
Did you have to do work with any actors?
(13:36):
So, what I remember is the first, so like I said, I have auditioned twice.
The first time I came out, Alan Michael, who was Carl, was not available.
He was maybe doing an appearance, so I had to audition with another actor playing his role.
So, I remember that, you know, I've tried to remember the funny thing I used to say.
(13:58):
I remember saying to my manager, saying, "I'm going to work out," because there was like a really emotional scene.
And I was supposed to cry, and I remember saying, "I'm going to work on this all night."
And she was like, "Well, don't work too hard, because I don't want your eyes to be puffy."
So, 80s.
Yeah, I remember the guy, the actor being very giving, and he was actually somebody who came on later on.
(14:22):
His name was Jim Fletcher, maybe. His name was James.
And then the second time I auditioned, I think Carl was there, and I did work with him.
And I remember him being very giving also, very in terms of like making sure that we, it's the actor, were comfortable, and that kind of thing.
(14:43):
I don't think I remember that you had a whole Alan Michael storyline.
Yeah, it never, it never panned out into an Alan Michael thing.
It was supposed to be that, but it ended up being an interest.
I've been trying, Carl and I've talked a few times. I've been trying to get him to join.
Tell him, join.
This is what I remember about Carl. He was super funny.
(15:07):
No, I mean, he didn't ever do a lot of funny things on the show, but I remember him being a little bit shy about being funny and Beth, Harley, saying, "You're so funny, you need to kind of lean into that."
But that's what I remember about him, that he was a really funny guy.
Funny.
Well, Beth Ellers was very funny.
Yeah, yeah.
(15:29):
Just a little talent there too, right?
Little bit, just a little.
Joss and what do you remember about yours? Your audition?
I don't remember. I came in, I guess, the previous executive producer, James Wittley-Cal?
No, no, Cal.
(15:50):
Cal was still there when I was auditioning, but Denjell Phelps took over before I could start.
So, Cal was really nice, and I just remember, just feeling very, very supported.
We were put up in a hotel in New York, and they let us know by the end of the day who got it after the screen test.
(16:16):
Yeah, but I don't know what the other actor and I who were up against each other for the role were hanging out, waiting for the call.
I don't know why we didn't think it might be awkward once we found out who got it.
Yeah, you know.
Remember that was? Was that anybody who's working?
(16:39):
No, I don't remember ever running into her or hearing about her again, but there were actually three of us, the two of us from out of town were hanging out at the hotel.
But the other one was Sarah Lyman, who I had gone to college with, and we're still really good friends.
That's not out.
Yeah, so we were, we all three of us screened us. I remember, yeah, I saw her.
(17:03):
She had been a year ahead of me at the University of Virginia, and I always thought she was so beautiful, and she was starred in every stage play, and I was like, "Oh, God, she's auditioning for this."
But she's such a lovely person, and we've been close ever since.
But yeah, the other girl and I were like, "Hang out in my hotel room, and I get the call that I got in."
(17:24):
And I was like, "Dumb or so dumb."
Oh, that is really...
I've been doing this for five years, and I've never heard that before.
Yeah, you could be a user.
Young and dumb, like why don't you put ourselves in that position?
Well, good thing it wasn't the other way around.
You could have been more...
(17:45):
Seriously.
Your first days, do you remember where you nervous as all get out?
Well, I know I had the, you know, the pleasure and luxury of being Mark Derwin's little sister on the show, so he was just a doll, and you know, Alan, he's just the greatest guy.
(18:08):
And so he made me feel so, so welcome and taken care of and like...
Showed you the ropes, per se.
Big brother, yeah.
Yeah, it was really, really nice.
I felt really very well supported.
How about you?
I don't remember my first day, but one of the things I remember early on was going out with Morgan, a Dylan,
(18:32):
to just sort of get to know each other, and we were out in New York, you know, and you're like, you're 20-something years old, and I just remember him being like super like...
Can I say the word stoked?
He was stoked to be on guiding light, and I remember him like standing on the edge of the corner of the street, and then just like doing a jump and spin like...
(18:56):
Hey, you know, we're all kind of like...
But that's a really strong memory I have of him being like, "Hey, we're so opera actors."
That's hysterical.
What was living in New York like for you at such a young age for both of you?
(19:17):
Wow.
I really liked New York in my 20s.
I really liked it in my 20s. It felt like... I was telling Jocelyn about this earlier that actors in New York are treated way differently than actors in LA from my memory of it.
There was a time when I did the family feud.
(19:40):
It was like, you know, soap opera stars, men and women on family feud.
You go out there and you're treated like a real celebrity.
When you go out to LA.
Yeah, in LA. In New York we had these tiny little cubicles. You know, we were these tiny little dressing rooms.
And I guess what I'm saying is...
(20:03):
You know, you felt like a regular person in New York. You know, you didn't feel like, "Oh my God, I'm walking around the streets, and I'm a star."
But in LA, they kind of treated you like that.
And I liked that about New York. That it was very real, and it was very...
It was a very cool approach to you on the street. They were like, "Hey, I recognize you." You know, just like you're talking person to person.
It's funny because I went back and listened to your show, Jocelyn.
(20:28):
And Mark was talking sort of about, I think, doing young in the restless.
And about all of you at Guiding Light, you were all talking.
I mean, being in those small dressing rooms, you were just closer.
You worked harder on your scenes because you were just there to do the work.
(20:50):
You didn't have a luxurious dressing room to sit there and relax.
And you really were there to act.
Yeah. I think that's true. I did days of our lives for a little bit after Guiding Light.
And I thought maybe this was just because I wasn't one of the contract players.
(21:11):
I was only there for a couple of months. But I think it did have a different feel because you were so spread out.
You had more space and nicer facilities.
We were just like, in this cave on the, you know, 40th Street.
(21:32):
Yeah. I said they knocked it down and it's a big high rise, I believe.
I've gone back there to kind of look at it, but yeah, it's not there.
2,2,2,2,4, yeah. There's a funny story that I was on.
You know, I would just, again, take public transportation, go take the bus to Guiding Light.
And I was there with my old boyfriend.
(21:55):
And he were on the bus and some girl came up to me and she said, she was like,
oh my gosh, like she recognized me. And she was like, where are you going?
And I was like, oh, I'm actually going to work. And she goes, oh, what do you do?
It was a really weird thing where she kind of couldn't get in the room with an actor.
But I was like, that's like a providing life.
(22:18):
That's amazing.
The sort of acknowledging of what that was.
She thought you were like, you know, waiting table still trying to get there.
Yeah, people, you know, it's crazy.
Yeah, I have. I mean, questions for you. I was trying to remember because you got--
(22:41):
Jocelyn wrote down questions. I wrote down a lot for that.
I wanted to ask you about working with Jerry Verdorn because that was my next question.
Oh my gosh.
Oh, why? What about it? Well, just he was so lovely, so lovely.
And he's beloved.
And just getting ready for this show, I looked back at one of your old scenes with him.
(23:03):
And it was just so sweet because, you know, you were like his little niece.
Well, he was basically like my dad on the show. And yeah, he was--
it's so fun to think how-- when I look back, how young he really was at the time.
But he was always super complimentary. He was always-- he gave me a lot of confidence
(23:25):
because he would say super nice things about a scene that I had done or that kind of thing.
So I feel like he was very mentor-ish in that way. Very good.
What an impact, though, to have on you, you know, on a big job like getting light.
And, you know, didn't have to do it.
No, at all. No, at all.
(23:47):
I feel like a lot of the cast was, you know, they were really good to us.
And it's not like I didn't appreciate it at the time, but I appreciate it more as I get older,
looking back.
You know, I mean, I think we were, you know, pleasant, you know, nice young ladies.
(24:09):
But, you know, there's a lot we didn't know about the world.
And everybody was very generous, you know, with--
Well, but you also, you know, you're both parents now.
So like you think, you know, you-- you just said it jostled in backstage.
You have kids that-- the age you two were.
So to know that those adults were treating you as if you were their age and with respect, you know, that's--
(24:38):
It's important because it, you know, being on a big job like that, it's pressure.
Yeah. Well, there's a story that I tell a lot.
There's a director, her name is Joanne Sedgwick.
I love Joanne.
You know Joanne?
I do. I worked with Joanne. I love Joanne.
Well, I remember her saying to me, I was in my 20s, whatever time it was.
(25:01):
And she looked at me and she said, you know, 30s are much easier.
And I remember that big-- and I even tell that to people in the 20s now that it's so true.
20s are really tough.
I feel like she could feel that it was a tough time. It's a growing experience.
And it's so true. The 30s were so much easier and so much better.
(25:26):
But real words of wisdom there.
Yeah.
Really?
Are you friends with her on Facebook?
I'm not. She's around on Facebook. I got to find her.
I'm going to send her a message.
I'm not going to send her a message after.
Oh, please do. I think about her. And I say that story all the time to people.
(25:47):
I'm sure she would love, love, love to hear it.
Well, people in their 20s have said to me over and over, oh, really?
That's so great to hear because I'm finding it really hard to be in my 20s.
And everybody says 20s is so awesome, you know?
Yeah.
And it is tough. It's a tough time.
You know, I'm back.
I feel like there was so much less awareness about, you know, how to sort of, you know,
(26:14):
make sure that there was a good work, life balance and make sure that people's mental health was taking care of, you know, which just wasn't part of the conversation.
So, but looking back, I feel like people in their own ways were sort of reaching out and saying supportive things.
And I, you know, I went through so just in those three years on the show, I had so many life experiences.
(26:36):
I got very sick.
You know, had to have surgery.
I ended up meeting my husband. I got married. It's like that group of people saw me through this incredible formative time in my life.
And I'm really grateful.
Interesting. Susie, did you also work with the gentleman who played your dad?
(26:58):
I believe you did. Tom O'Rourke, who played Justin?
No, I didn't work with Tom. I worked with who's the one that played it after. I can't think of his name.
Oh, everybody else played Justin after?
Yes.
Yes.
Weirdly, I can't remember.
Chris Penock?
Yes. That's who it was.
(27:19):
Wow.
Yes.
That's who I work with.
Yeah.
I'm going to look up who that is. I don't remember who that is.
Well, Chris Penock, I don't know if you've ever seen this movie.
I was telling Jocelyn earlier, the movie Francis starring Jessica Lang, where she played Francis Farmer.
He played her first husband in that movie.
(27:42):
Oh, his face.
I was asking him about it.
I was very familiar.
I wonder if Tom had passed by then or just couldn't do it.
Possibly.
As I grew up on him playing Justin, I mean, I loved Jerry.
He would remember a lot of people talked about him.
Yeah.
Jerry and him were absolutely amazing together.
(28:05):
And says he was still alive. See, the fans do know.
No, no, no, it's amazing.
Yeah, absolutely.
Jocelyn, what do you think you learned from your brother, Mark?
Oh, so many things.
And I'm so excited. I've moved back to LA.
I heard.
(28:26):
So we're actually going to have lunch later this week.
Please take a photograph.
Oh, yes.
For sure.
I'll remember to do that.
You know, Mark, as you know, I mean, he came to acting after working in construction.
And he had a little bit of life experience.
(28:48):
He wasn't 20 or 21.
Like we were, it was maybe 28.
And he never lost his groundedness, you know, in terms of having just like been a working guy.
So I just think that was incredibly influential on me because like Susie said, the New York actor, he was never, never about his ego.
(29:13):
Yeah.
You know, it was great.
You know, and people would, you know, throw themselves at him.
I mean, I remember I'd go to these appearances and they wouldn't ask me anything about my character.
They'd just be like, what's it like to work with AC Mallet?
Well, I remember one time sleeping with Mark's dog.
Oh, I think I watched his dog one time, Bill.
(29:37):
I think his name was Bill or Bob.
And I was like, those watching his dog and I slept with Mark's dog.
So, no, no, no.
That's a miracle.
Back back in the day, I somehow was hired to do those personal appearances with some of the actors.
And I went with Mark somewhere.
We went to, I think the Kentucky Derby possibly.
(30:00):
That was the first time, you know, he is a great, and he had AC was a great character.
He was guiding light.
You know, they wrote for, here's a trivia question I came up with for you.
Okay.
I'm sure the stands will know this, but I'm not sure if you will.
What did AC Mallet stand for?
(30:23):
What was that character's real name?
No, no idea.
Oh, yes.
Alex Carrera.
Anthony.
Anthony, you're right.
What is it?
Anthony.
Anthony Camilletti, wasn't it?
Oh, you know.
You're dangling.
Yeah.
I know.
Yeah.
That's Anthony Camilletti.
(30:44):
Tony.
That's why my character called him Tony.
And I'm Julie Camilletti.
Yeah.
And Kendra said, Mallet and Julie had a very believable sibling relationship for Soaks.
Oh, that is so nice.
I really appreciate that because I mean, I loved working with him.
And he's, you know, as you know, Alan, he's so funny.
(31:07):
Oh, my God.
Truly one of the funny.
I was watching some of your interviews from earlier and just the stuff that he comes up with is so funny.
He is really, he's, he's, he's, he's sterical.
And then, Mr said, yes, they had an awesome brother and sister, and Jocelyn also had great chemistry with Melissa Hayden.
(31:29):
Yes.
And we really did.
And we were, we became friends too.
And I know when we talked last year, when we were on your show together, we got to talk about some of that.
But that was really gold because we got to be at odds, you know.
And that is the most, you know, the richest stuff for scenes, you know.
(31:55):
I was remembering.
I remember you two, you know.
I know.
But no, I don't think it would have worked.
We were like these two nice girls.
We were like, hi, hi, hi.
I like your hair.
What surprised you most about doing daytime?
That's a really good question.
(32:17):
What's the pr, you know what?
For me, I was so involved in the stories.
I don't know if you felt the same way.
But I would be so excited to get the script and to see what, you know, because, you know, I remember relating this to Sex and the City,
where I was like, you become kind of that character, where you don't really, any more, have to work on your backstory or anything like that.
(32:46):
And you're so involved in it that you're reading the script, you're already emotional about it.
Like I remember when the executive producer called me in and said, you know, you're going to have an accident.
You know, one of those kind of things.
And you're going to be in a wheelchair.
And I remember almost crying because he was telling me I was going to be in this accident.
(33:07):
So I think that's that surprised me about how involved I was and how easy it was
in terms of like just being there and just reading the script and, you know, you're that character for whatever.
I remember Sam being in the wheelchair. What was the accident?
(33:28):
Let's see if I can remember.
Riva, that sort of thing happening where she, I'm not sure to be honest, she drove off a bridge.
I'm sorry, I'm laughing, but she was having some sort of like delusion or something and drove off a bridge thinking she was running to.
(33:51):
Oh, right. Were you in the car at the time?
Yes, I was in the car.
Oh, right. I remember totally totally.
Of course.
She was in the show.
Right? Oh, yes.
She was in the show.
And that was how they were.
So she drove off with postpartum depression.
That's see, you know better than me.
(34:13):
Yeah, yeah.
I just needed my memory jogged.
But yeah, you got it.
And then I were, were you in Florida?
Yes.
Yeah, it was very fun, very nice to go away and do something.
Yeah, it was Kim, Robert, Bethellers, Morgan and yourself.
Yeah.
Wow. Oh, yeah. I mean, Jocelyn, you should look for that because that is definitely online.
(34:41):
And I remember seeing that scene.
Like I remember one of your really emotional scenes where you're in the hospital bed and you like throw your food train.
I remember that, but isn't it good?
But yeah, that's funny that you're saying that about getting to your character.
I was going to say something a little less deep, which is that it does get a lot easier because the memory is like a muscle.
(35:06):
And you get so used to like learning the lines because that's the biggest question everybody always asks.
It's like, how do you remember all those lines?
Yeah.
You know, you film, you know, entire episode every day and just said it gets easier because you, you really work that muscle.
It's so funny because the speed back then is like slow compared to what they do today to save money.
(35:30):
Yeah, explain.
Basically, you know, you usually back in the day, it was one show a day.
Right?
You know, it could be two, could be six, you know, you might be doing scenes for six shows in a day.
(35:53):
I do.
You know, you also had dry rehearsal, then camera block, right?
Yep.
Yep.
Then you would take.
I don't think there's many shows that have a dry rehearsal at all.
Not anymore, huh?
No, I think it's, you know, they probably have camera blocking.
(36:15):
And then there you go.
And they a lot of times try to get it in that one take.
And it's really all, but you know, money.
Time for me today.
And I actually had a very sort of unexpected opportunity when I first moved back here to audition for the Bowl in the beautiful.
(36:36):
So I got a little reintroduction to this new world of, you know, multiple shows every day.
And, you know, it was a little multiple shows every day, especially with a half hour show too.
Yeah, half hour show makes it a little easier to.
Yeah.
Was that nerve wracking going back to it?
(37:02):
No, actually, it felt really good. It was like, you know, like riding a bike.
It felt really good.
I remember back in the day, we'd always try to do it in one take anyway.
So, yeah.
Of course.
Absolutely.
Tim was asking, do you girls have a favorite scene that you did at the show at Gotting Like?
That's a nice question.
(37:26):
I was sort of thinking about the one where Dylan and I was like a, it was like a 50s kind of thing in a diner.
And Dylan gave me a ring and I had to take the ring and I had to throw it and say, "We're not fit anymore."
I remember that.
But I also, like I said, was such an emotional time because like I said, I had lived through this character.
(37:50):
And it was just so, you know, it was so sad to break up with him in real life.
But that's one of my memories, a really strong memory of like having to break up with Dylan.
I guess I'd have to say, you know, when I had the whole storyline also with Morgan,
or we were about to get married and then Bridget, you know, blew my cover and announced that I had just talked with Hart the night before.
(38:16):
And so I got, you know, I was in my wedding dress and I got tossed down like, "Duck Morgan, Dylan, toss me down."
Like it hurts feet and that was awesome.
That is so funny.
I mean, it's just so exciting to have like that meaty stuff, you know?
Like in the beginning I was so, you know, so innocent and it was like, I don't know if you remember.
(38:42):
My whole storyline was like, I lost my bracelet and Hart found it.
That was like the most exciting.
That was like after weeks.
Jeff Phillips was your first heart, right?
Yes, yes.
So yeah, then, you know, things heated up when Leonard Stab came on, but as you know, it was pretty short-lived.
(39:08):
But yeah, yeah, he was such a charismatic guy.
Yeah, he really was.
He really was.
Tall Brooklyn dude says, "Loved loved Jocelyn's 180 from Julie going from Frail Hiroen to fiery villainess."
(39:29):
Plus your brief delicious turn on days of our lives.
Oh, thank you so much.
I love that it's tall Brooklyn guy.
I remember going, going getting that turn and I got to work with Melina because for a while I was trying to steal Frank.
I was like, the babysitter trying to steal Frank and I like snuck and got in bed with him.
(39:54):
And everything.
It's a Melina and I had to have some scenes that were like a little tense and nothing like on the Bridget level.
But that was really fun because we were, we were really good friends.
So, you know, just meaty stuff is so great.
Was there someone there that you always wished you had more with?
(40:15):
Oh, that's a good question.
I mean, I always just, I always thought, I always loved Sherry Stringfield's work.
I always just thought she was such an effortless presence and strength.
And so, you know, I got, so I've never had like a real storyline with her.
(40:37):
Yeah, you must have gotten to work with her.
Was she there, Susan when you were there?
She must have been.
Yeah, yeah, she sure was.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know what I always admired about Sherry was that she did things on her own sort of,
she didn't, she didn't give in to what everybody expected of her.
(41:00):
You know, she was very good at drawing boundaries, that kind of thing.
Yeah.
Yeah, very self-conscious.
A lot of talent came through those doors, huh?
We really were, we were on at a great time.
I mean, I know, you know, every period has great cast and you can point to so many that came after us that I know have been, you know, really, really successful.
(41:23):
But I feel like, you know, we had some really great, like really accomplished actors like Maeve Concade and Morning Garrett and, I mean, just so many, you know, that, I mean, it was just real.
Who was, you know, the, who's the woman who, she's, you know, really famous, but she played like the maid.
(41:49):
Ginger, Alison, Janney.
Alison, Janney, I mean, Alison, Janney.
She played, she played Alexandra as maid.
Oh, I didn't, I had no idea.
Do a search for that because she, you will be your fan.
When was that?
Well, you were all, yes.
I mean, just like such great, great, great.
(42:11):
Well, I worked with someone who played a maid, her name was Frances Foster.
Do you know her?
Oh, yeah.
Frances Foster, you have to look her up. She was in a raisin in the sun on Broadway.
And I remember being, you know what I remember her and the other guy who played the butler.
And I don't remember his name, but we went to the, not what do you call the, the something O'Matt.
(42:34):
They used to have these, like, laundromat thing?
Yeah, but they were food.
What'd you call auto-matte?
You didn't have maybe an auto-matte.
You know, the food and you'd come out of a machine.
We all three went together on lunch break.
Such a random thing.
But yeah, it was an auto-matte, which I don't think exists anymore.
(42:55):
No, and I'm shocked that there was one in New York.
Yeah, for sure, near the studio.
Yeah.
Wow, that's wild.
Yeah.
Vincester says, my favorite scene with Sam was the Christmas episode with her and Dylan.
I think it was 1989.
I don't know what that is specifically.
It is either this Christmas episode.
(43:17):
I was thinking of one where, I don't know, there was, there was always just heartbreak wasn't there.
Yeah.
Not exactly working out to that kind of thing.
There really was.
Kayla just said, oh my god, it's Julian Samantha from Godning Light.
You ladies are still beautiful.
Alan, I feel like I'm at a family reunion and I'm watching live.
(43:38):
Oh, hello.
I have to say, I do relate to that because like I said, it was a big fan of As the World Turns and the same thing.
I would feel the same thing if Lily was here with Bolden or Dustin or you know, all of that.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I've got another trivia question for everybody.
Uh-oh, okay.
So, who filled in for me for several episodes when I was sick?
(44:06):
Oh, why?
And I think it was around Christmas, Tony.
What, a famous actress?
I know who it is.
Oh, let's see.
Hold on.
I need to go to the bottom here.
Hold on.
And it was one of those like today, the part of Julie Kimmeletti will be played by.
Totally, totally.
Wow, this person was quick.
(44:27):
Cool, blue, 71's, Mira Servino.
Yes.
That's a really slim one.
That's what I'm talking about.
That's what I'm talking about.
Yeah.
She was just a young thing, you know.
Well, and I can also say, you know who auditioned for the part of Samantha Marlar, another famous actress,
Callista Flalker.
Oh my gosh.
Oh my gosh.
(44:48):
You know, Callista actually did that in light.
Well, actually, she also did a small role on guiding light as well.
Like a babysitter.
Yeah.
Something on the phone.
But yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I'm really thinking about you guys look alike.
Oh, okay.
You know, that with the blonde hair you do.
Yeah.
Vincester says, I think Dylan's truck would in start and Sam came out and I think they hugged.
(45:14):
Might have been the Christmas show.
Oh.
I feel emotional hearing about that.
But when you think about Morgan for both of you, what comes to mind?
Oh God, he's just so.
He's one of a kind, right?
He's one of a kind.
(45:35):
He's so unique and he's so funny.
And he totally wears his heart on his sleeve.
Like he's just like a giving and genuine and emotional.
But I just remember one of a really good turning point on the show for me was getting stuck in the elevator with him in the characters.
And it became, that was when we started like our love story.
(45:58):
And he just cracked me up so much because he was supposed to be like claustrophobic.
You know, so we just, you know, we did this whole, like this whole sequence in this elevator.
And he was claustrophobic.
And I remember I was like, it was hot in there.
So I did like time my shirt up and let my midriff show.
(46:20):
Sure.
But we just laughed so hard.
And I was like the first time I really got to know him like because we were working together daily, you know, like no, no him.
And he's just, he's so fun.
So I'm scared, you know, I mean, because I saw that recently, right?
(46:42):
There was something he posted recently.
It's crazy.
I remember going to Florida and him saying, you need to get new suitcases.
He's looking at suitcases.
That's an everywhere.
You remember when people say, you know, pithy things, right?
Pithy things.
What about what, what, what, what, what you always laugh about what I said to you?
(47:05):
What was that?
What, what, what I was?
Oh, she wants me to tell you about that.
I was, but she said just, I guess at one point I was like, Susie.
No, Jocelyn was very into like helping me with my look.
And there was one time Jocelyn looked at me and she said, let's talk about your eyebrows.
(47:29):
I don't know why that's so funny, but it is.
I don't even remember that.
Yeah, we need to talk about that.
The other thing I remember about Morgan though is he was always working on his music in the dressing room.
And I remember he would play some songs for me that he had written in recorded and be like, what do you think?
And I was like so flattered that he would even ask because I don't know anything about music.
(47:51):
And I sort of say like, how's this thing?
You know, he'd be like, that's really, it was just he was very, very sweet about that.
And I know he still, he still does his music, his daughters, a big musician.
So that's really cool.
Oh, yeah, his daughter is quite successful.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah, I think he told me when he and I sat down, it might have been a Garth Brooks concert in New York that really sparked his love.
(48:20):
I know his, I think his brother was into music as well, but I think there was some.
Well, he did musical theater too.
I know we saw him in Pippin in New York.
I remember.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, we're good fun.
And we're asking, did you ever get to meet his mama?
(48:44):
You know, I feel like I did, briefly, when she came by the show.
Of course, I admired her work for years and years and just worshiped her from everything from when she was on Malcolm in the middle to the voice she played in the Miyazaki movie.
(49:05):
She's one of the pirates in the Miyazaki animated movie, which I can't remember which one it is, but she's just, she was.
Well, I remember him saying to me that his mom said, gave me a compliment and said she's a really good listener.
And I remember being like, of course, leechman said, I'm a good listener.
(49:29):
I don't think I ever met her, but I think I just heard that compliment.
And I remember that my whole life.
Who wouldn't?
Yeah, right?
Seriously, who wouldn't?
We have to talk about this photograph.
Yeah.
Talk about today.
Let's fast forward to modern era and your business you own.
(49:52):
How long have you, so it's Deb and Suzy.
What does it say?
Do you get the bodies?
Get it? Do you?
So it's like, I really wanted it to be Debbie does Pilates.
Do you get that?
Yes, I do.
I get my name in there.
So it's Deb and Suzy do Pilates.
I mean, maybe we get that, but we don't.
(50:13):
Since my daughter was little, I was kind of like, what am I doing next?
What's next?
And I've always loved fitness and I love working out.
And so I sort of started to pursue the Pilates thing and then really started to love it.
And what I love about it is that, you know, what we've created here is a beautiful community of people from mid-80s to 20s.
(50:39):
You know what I mean?
That are doing the same thing and being able to move and it's just been really rewarding for me.
And it's been awesome to see that at my age, which is 56, being able to start something new, I mean, I guess you relate, right?
To be able to go, hey, I can start a business.
(51:00):
It can be successful.
I can learn how to do things that I didn't know how to do it.
All, which is like social media and stuff like that.
And also--
How long have you been doing it so far?
So it's almost been a year that we've been open.
So April will be one year.
So really, really new.
Amazing.
You taught Pilates for a long time.
(51:21):
Yeah, I've taught Pilates for almost 10 years, I would say, but just starting our business was like, you know, and my partner Debbie was like,
"It's almost time for me to retire."
Am I doing this?
And I mean, like I said, I just realized that at any age, you can do something new and really feel rewarded and really feel like you're affecting people's lives in a really positive way.
(51:45):
Well, we are going to come back to this because there's an actress named Nancy St. Alvin who played Michelle Bauer at the end of the show, opened her own yoga studio.
Beth Chamberlain who played Beth Reigns owns a fitness studio.
So we might have to get all the guiding light ladies who own fitness studios to get this.
(52:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's very cool.
Well, this young man wanted to stop by and say hello to you both.
What?
Hey!
More of a hand.
That's so funny.
It was on the tip of my tongue yesterday to message you and say, "Hey, let's surprise Jocelyn."
[laughter]
But what you were just saying right now, Susie, the reason I wanted to come in a couple minutes early, my calendar didn't alert me, but anyway, my fault.
(52:37):
But I was just writing an email for this course that I'm making right now and it's all about, you know, it basically starts out with, you know, I was 54 years old, just saying, you know, Purpose, Rutterless, Stuck, you know, What Now?
Right.
And that was when I decided to walk away from the fire department and, you know, try to like actually live with a deeper purpose and stuff like that.
(53:03):
So totally in line with what you're saying and I think that at this point in life, kind of after you've had the kids and got the job and did all the things you're supposed to do, it's like, "K now what?"
You know, I want to have Purpose still.
And then being older too, you know, when we're young, we feel like this is our world, you know, and then pretty soon it's not your world anymore.
(53:26):
It's a whole 'nother generation's world.
I've lost, you know, I'm not relevant anymore.
And that's not true. It's not true.
No.
There's a woman in my class who's 83 years old and comes to Pilates like three times a week and is like still completely working, still has her grandchildren still has a social life.
(53:49):
And, you know, I think of my dad and my mom in their 50s and what I thought they were, you know, like you said, irrelevant.
I think I thought that.
Yeah.
Not anymore.
Yeah.
Well, there's a lot to learn.
And I relate because I mean that was, you know, part of moving back to LA last year was, you know, looking at this next chapter or this, you know, third act of my life.
(54:15):
And just realizing that there were things that I wanted to do with my writing and, you know, that as much as I love to say Lewis, you know, I needed to be here.
Yeah.
Is there a dross of one?
Well, my daughter who's still in college is, is, you know, based with me here.
But my older daughter who's also a musician is still in St. Louis, but you know, I'm working on it.
(54:42):
Well, Morgan, one of the fans.
I'm happy you're here.
One of the fans just said the triangle, go over now.
The triangle.
The triangle.
The triangle.
The triangle.
No, three.
They never got.
Oh, that's so dirty.
I didn't hear anything.
(55:05):
Oh, this is the triangle.
This is the triangle that we could have had.
Also, Morgan, what do you remember about working with these two?
Who do you like better?
Who do you like better, Morgan?
It's easy.
Hi, I don't know who said that, but.
(55:28):
Well, we just, we're so long, you know.
Yeah.
Do I like that?
I'm going to a stupid question.
And I'm so, do you, too?
As you haven't heard from you in a year, so you must be doing really well with Pilates.
Really good.
Really good.
(55:49):
That both look amazing.
You too.
Yeah, well, it's great to see you too, my friend.
You too, Morgan.
You too.
Thanks for stopping by, my friend.
Yeah, well, I'll catch up with you two on the flip side on the other side.
Yeah, we'll love to everybody.
(56:12):
Take care.
That was so awesome.
No.
Isn't that funny?
I really, really was going to message him and say, that's surprise, Jocelyn.
Well, yeah, I thought that surprised both of you.
Do you miss acting, Susie?
No.
I don't think so.
(56:34):
I mean, you know, kind of the end of it for me was when I was pregnant with my daughter.
That's the way I always tell it.
So I was 42, I think, when I had my daughter.
And I just thought, you know, I don't want the stress anymore.
To me, it was just stress.
You know, it's very, it's like, you know, interviewing for a job every day.
(56:57):
I've got to bless you all who do it.
Yes.
You know, and I think it was just it was, it had lived out its purpose.
And I was very, very into it and very involved in it when I was younger in terms of, you know, my involvement in being emotionally available to it.
(57:20):
But I think when my daughter, when I had my daughter, I was just ready for that.
That was my next chapter.
And I was done with it.
And Jocelyn, are you fully back in?
You know, I'm keeping an open mind, but I'm not actively pursuing it.
Like the bold and the beautiful thing just came up.
I'm really staying focused on my writing.
(57:43):
And it's not that I wouldn't enjoy acting, but to put the energy into pursuing the auditions and the roles would take up all my time.
And I really have so much sort of on the front burner with screenplays and novels and stuff that I'm trying to get over the finish line.
So, so I'm keeping an open mind, but not, not actively going after anything.
(58:10):
Well, sometimes, you know, that's when the doors open too.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, I mean, my gosh, have we not all at this age like been surprised by how things have turned out in life?
Yeah.
I never thought I'd be stuck with hers.
I know.
One of my best friends, whatever.
And back together, you know, back in New City.
(58:35):
It's so awesome, by the way, I'm so happy to have Jocelyn back.
Yeah, that's really, it's really been so meaningful to me.
I mean, it's so, you know, Susie, you say like, you know, growing up on soaps.
I mean, those characters were family.
It is really nice to see that behind the scenes, it's the same thing.
(58:57):
Yeah, it really is.
And you know, I, I mean, this is not a shameless plug, but I do have a new sub stack that is called,
all I really needed to know I learned in soap operas.
And part of, you know, I think getting older, I have really come to appreciate how impactful soap operas have been in culture,
(59:19):
how, you know, how meaningful the storytelling is.
And of course, you know, the experience of getting to know the actual people that you work with.
But just as a form of storytelling, I appreciate it so much more now.
There's a lot of my Pilates class.
There's a one of my Pilates class who talks about that.
That she said, when I do my, I still am watching days of our lives.
(59:41):
She said, it's playing, she's my age.
And she's like, it just plays in my background.
And these are my people that I want to see what's going on with them.
Same thing.
It really is.
Well, I'm going to read your sub stack.
Send me the link so I don't forget, Jocelyn.
And I'll share it so everybody can see it as well.
I'll share it.
Right.
(01:00:02):
I'd love to know what, yeah, I think because I'm trying to think of topics.
I'd love to know what topics people want to hear about.
It's so well written, by the way.
So well written.
Well, I know you last time you were here, you were working on stuff.
So keep keep me posted.
You'll have to come back when that book is published or that screenplay is.
I would love to.
Is out there, but it's funny because I'm going to speak at a pop culture thing in October.
(01:00:32):
Sort of about soap operas.
It's a bowling green college or university.
They had reached out to me and.
Where is that?
Where's bowling green in Ohio, I believe.
Yeah, I think bowling green.
Yeah.
Yeah, bowling green university in bowling green Ohio.
(01:00:57):
Wow, that'd be great.
That's a terrific thing.
Interesting.
Yeah, I've never really done it.
But you know, I and Jill Laurie Hurst.
I don't think you know Jill.
She was she was probably here's a very funny story, but Jill was probably the receptionist to to to east 44th when you were there who.
(01:01:22):
I don't know.
Who is the head.
And then she might have also worked for Jill.
No, I don't know if she worked for Jill felt she might have.
But she ended up being the head writer by the end of the show.
Wow.
Interesting.
And she's going to be you're saying she might join me because she lives in not far.
But you know guiding light.
I mean, she was the receptionist and got hired inside and.
(01:01:46):
So funny.
Yeah.
It's a while like the school world.
Yeah.
Please, let's before we go, I want to get a picture of us.
So I'm going to miss down.
Smile.
The eyebrows good.
One.
Let's see if I got that.
(01:02:11):
See if the eyes are open for all of us.
Or the eyebrows.
Yeah, great.
That's fantastic.
Thank you.
Thank you.
So much.
Thank you, Ellen.
It was so fun for inviting us and having to.
Jill is watching.
So sorry.
She was a writing assistant by 1994 and then was head writer and she's my dear friend.
(01:02:35):
Oh my god.
She's watching right now.
Very cool.
Yeah.
I remember her name.
Oh my gosh.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
Crazy small world.
And if I get Carl here someday, Susie will have to surprise him.
So fun.
Yeah.
I want to talk about how funny he was and he didn't want to go for the funny, but he was so funny.
(01:02:57):
Oh, what are you because fans had asked before I forget what you remember about Grand Alexander?
What's what?
Grand who played Philip.
I think I had a big crush on him.
Don't tell him.
But I think I had a big brother, but I had a big crush because I thought he was so handsome.
But he was also very.
I just experienced him as having a lot of integrity.
(01:03:21):
Like really, really caring about the work and really, really caring about that everybody.
And I think it's about that everybody was comfortable.
You know what I mean?
He's a good man and he has aged gracefully.
Blue for a kill.
Still looks.
Pretty much.
Still looks the same.
Yeah.
Pretty much.
And Jill wanted me to say a big fan of both of your ladies work.
(01:03:46):
Oh, that's nice.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
And thank you for watching.
And even though you're probably watching more for Alan's.
Yeah.
That's a good friend.
You know, you've seen me enough.
Thank you so much, ladies.
This was really great.
Thank you so much for having us.
Thank you.
That's the luck out there.
And we'll talk about a health, you know, a fitness show sometimes.
Let's know about that.
(01:04:07):
And thanks for everyone for tuning in.
I appreciate it.
Absolutely.
Bye.
Thanks everybody for joining today.
I hope you enjoyed.
Thank you to Susie Jostleon and Morgan.
For that little surprise.
If you haven't yet subscribed to my YouTube channel, you can do so down below.
Turn on the notifications for reminders of all upcoming shows.
(01:04:30):
And remember, if you'd like to stream audio versions, just search the locker room on your favorite podcast app.
Have a great evening, everybody.
Thanks again.
And be safe.
[Music]
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