Marquita Gammage Ph.D Appears on The Reading Circle with Marc Medley

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
My guest this morning is Marquita M. Damage is a full professor in the
Africana Studies department at California State University, Northridge. A season she earned her
PhD in African American Studies from TempleUniversity. Doctor Gamage's research examines the calculus

(00:22):
of media effect on the sustainability ofanti African racist ideologies through the intersection of
race, gender, and media.By analyzing current popular media productions reality TV,
television dramas, social media, etc. Paired with an Afrocentric historical and

(00:44):
cultural lens, her research demonstrates howthey continued I know that's right. Misrepresentations
of Black womanhood in the media andsociety in general can be predictive of future
public policy initiatives that endanger the freedomand liberties of African Americans. Additionally,

(01:06):
her research explores racial equity and theacademic success of African American students, high
impact practices, and asset based pedagogy. As contemporary media continues to be a
battleground for the portrayal of Black women, Gamage explores the troubling proliferation of racially

(01:30):
informed media depictions of the lives ofblack women, providing essential insights into the
intersection of race, gender, andmedia representation in today's world. Ladies and
gentlemen, Welcome to the reading circlemicrophones. Marquita M. Gamage, PhD.

(01:52):
Doctor Gamage, good morning, Goodmorning, Mark, Thank you so
much for welcome me, and goodmorning to the listening audience. Well,
I tell you, as we talkeda couple of minutes as we were just
chatting, you know, prior togoing on air. I'm appreciative of all
of my guests, every guest I'veever had over the twenty three year period
I've been on the air. I'mappreciative of all of them. But I

(02:14):
am extremely appreciative to those who areon the Pacific coasts on the Pacific time
frame, because listening audience, asyou know, it's seven o'clock here or
about seven oh five am here,but it is four oh five am there
in California as doctor Gamage is callingout of Los Angeles. So again,

(02:38):
thank you. I appreciate you fortaking the time to rise early. Four
o'clock on Saturdays is what I getup to get to the studio, so
I know how early that can be. Now that problem, This is a
great opportunity to talk with you aboutthe new book. So, yes,
the book was just released, AmI correct? Yes, Okay, we're
gonna work our way up to that. But as I shared with you,

(02:59):
I really don't work off a questionlist, but I do start with a
basic question in terms of all right, is writing something you've always done or
if it was something you know asa child? Were you always writing as
you went through elementary school, middleschool, high school, college, so
I mean, or did it comelater in life, you know, as
a result of your studies what haveyou. It definitely did not start in

(03:23):
childhood. In fact, throughout myearly educational experiences, I would say I
was unofficially misdiagnosed as uninterested in learning, and at one point an elementary teacher
assumed that I may have had dyslexia. Of course, you didn't have any
training to make that diagnosis, butI was treated as such in the classroom,

(03:45):
and so I was regulated to thesidelines and say, well, you
know, you don't have to try, We don't have to engage you.
So there really wasn't any reading orwriting that was brought to me in terms
of that educational setting. But Iwas born and raised in New Orleans,
Louisiana by my parents, my momin particular, and my seven siblings,

(04:08):
And during that time and in thatspace in the eighties and early nineties,
we were exposed to a lot ofculture, a lot of richness, and
that kind of first sparked my it'smy understanding and my love for blackness and
literature and writing came much later on, largely when I became a student at

(04:28):
Howard University in undergrad That is interestingbecause first off, all right, your
history is a perfect backdrop for whatyou've been studying. Because again, as
I heard you and listened to youwhen I am not doing radio, and
the listening audience knows because they hearit every week. But when I'm not
doing radio, my actual day jobas a school principal, So I know

(04:54):
how kids can be labeled and misslabeled. As a matter of fact,
I hate the labels because I'm awordsmith in terms of I hang on every
word and I know the power ofwords. So once you start labeling,
what children will do is actually beginto live that label exactly. So now

(05:14):
as you're going through and you knowthese because everything connects for me, because
urban children, African American children,people of color black and brown children tend
to get label quicker very early.Yes, especially the males. So it's
interesting to hear you from a femaleperspective say you now were mislabeled or misdiagnosed

(05:39):
by somebody who really wasn't even qualifiedto make the diagnosis. And see that
gets into again what folks, orshall I say, the importance of having
people who look like you standing infront of you as a student. Now,
I'm not saying it has to happen, but however, the more that
it can happen, because this iswhat we talk about a couple of weeks

(06:00):
ago with doctor Tafari because she wasdoing her studies and she wrote her book
about African American male teachers being infront of children, particularly in the lower
grades. This kind of connects andis definitely going to connect to your topic
of your book. And we're goingto work our way up there in terms
of the bulk of matter of factwith you, the bulk of our conversation

(06:24):
is going to be on your book. I'm not even gonna take a whole
lot of time to work our wayup there. We're going to go straight
there only because it is an extremelyimportant topic and one that I have seen
over and over again, particularly intelevision and movies, because not only were
the women really stereotyped and miscast this, that and the other, but it

(06:44):
happened with the men and African Americansin general. So like, how did
you based on your upbringing, yourbackground, going to school and there,
how did you land on this topic? Because ladies and gentlemen, the book
is titled Media Racism The Impact ofMedia Injustice on on Black Women's Lives.
How did you land on this topic? Yes, so once again, growing

(07:06):
up seeing all of these diverse andpositive and really beautiful representations of blackness contradicted
what I was learning in school thatreally said that blackness wasn't worth studying.
So there was a void. AndI grew up in a primarily black community,
but the educational materials was not reflectiveof the students that were being served.

(07:29):
And so once I went on toHoward University, and I was one
of the first in my high schoolto do that. I graduated belevictorian and
got a scholarship because that was theonly way that I could afford to go.
And it was there that I onceagain was surrounded by I mean global
diversity of blackness and black culture andblack literature and black stories, and that

(07:53):
is what contradicted what I was seeingon the media. And at the time,
you saw this increase viewership of rapmusic videos and music videos in general
that largely just portrayed black women assexual objects, right, And so seeing
this and seeing my reality, theydidn't parallel. And that was when I

(08:16):
first began to study. When Iwas a Mecmare scholar at Howard University,
I began to study representations of blackwomen in hip hop. And at that
point is when I really start todive in as a researcher. I thought
I was going to go to lawschool. I was all set and ready
to do that, and then Ibecame this Mecmaar scholar and did this research

(08:39):
project and was looking at these imagesand I could not turn away at that
point because it was just a contradictionfrom my live reality since I was a
child through early adulthood. And see, I've taken in and listening to what
you were saying, and thoughts arerunning through my mind because I'm actually taking
a course this semester in cultural responsibleresponsive leadership, and the instructor in that

(09:05):
course is doctor Danielle Wallace. Idon't know if she's listening this morning or
not, because I did invite herto join the you know, to listen
in this morning, particularly because Iknew the topic we were to talk about,
and we were in class last weekand I had made the statement that
because we were talking about the banningof the books and curriculum in Florida,
so forth and so on, andi'd made the statement. I've made it

(09:26):
here on the air as well,and I'll always make it is I don't
understand how the learning and reading aboutof slavery and our history is more traumatic
for white kids learning and reading aboutit than it was for the African American
kids who lived it. And herpushback to me was, yes, you're
absolutely right, as a matter offact. And Carter G. Woodson's The

(09:48):
Miseducation of the Negro he gets intohow our education system overall is traumatizing for
black and brown children because we're neverreflected in the studies of our contributions.
In other words, what's constantly perpetuatedis you have to go to the back

(10:09):
door, you're not good enough,your people didn't contribute anything to the world.
That everything is about European or Eurocentriccontributions or greatness. When you read
nite Acbars, when you read hisbook The Breaking the Chains of Psychological Slavery,
he gets into that whole thing too, that no matter where you look,

(10:33):
white folk's greatness is, they're surroundedby that, and we need to
be just as dogmatic and making surethat we're surrounded by black greatness. So
I tell people all the time,I am an unapologetically proud black man.
Absolutely yes. And I don't careif my brother, my white brother,
say I'm an unboologetically proud white man. I'm fine with that. But don't

(10:56):
try to take away from me thefact that you are what you are.
Don't try to take away from whoI believe I am. And see,
this is where we're going here withthese. If you look at TV in
general, because I mean you,I'm sure you know the show Good Times,
Yeah, okay, Because if wego back and say I'm going back
off, I'm older than you.I know. So as as we go

(11:18):
through the various TV shows we hadgood times, if you remember the Brady
Bunch, if you remember I'm tryingto think of all that my three sons
make room for Daddy father knows best. If you got that, Like,
if you go all the way throughthese these various shows, there is one
thing that's portrayed in one set offamilies, and there's another thing that's portrayed

(11:43):
in the other exactly now, andthat is poverty and lack of cultural values,
right, and so like what yousee in Good Times is while you
see a family banding together, temptingto build community, their attempting to build
economic stability, you see the constantstruggle of poverty versus in those other shows,

(12:09):
you see, you know, evenlower class white families that they have
good, wholesome American values, thatthey can thrive, that they have good
things, that they're training their kidson, good values, That there is
something to be looked forward to aboutwhite American culture, in the white American
way of being, especially the middleclass white family, versus the how we

(12:31):
have situated the black family in theghetto. And well, I grew up
in the ghetto, and so myreality in the ghetto was once again seeing
brilliant sin ingenuity. One thing folkswho have not had access to resources is
that they understand how to be creative, They understand how to budget, They

(12:56):
understand how to make away when there'sno way up low income family, like
I mentioned, there were eight ofus eight children. There was never less
than twelve to fourteen kids in thehousehold because my mom always took in family
members, even friends of ours whoneeded housing. And yet I didn't know

(13:16):
that we were poor until I wentaway to college because of that type of
ingenuity, because of that community centeredapproach. And so yet, but these
representations have situated the black family andpoverty in the ghetto as constantly struggling,
as never able to get ahead evenwhen there's a desire of goodwill to do

(13:39):
so. And so when you lookat the historic representations this, you know
it's a repeating representation of this culturallydeficient black family, black cultural models.
And as a result of that,black families continue to find themselves Black men,
black women, black children continue tofide themselves behind the eight ball when

(14:03):
it comes to upward mobility, whenit comes to you know, expousing Americanized
values as another illustration, and inso many other ways which you will get
more into. But those historic representationsrepeat themselves in more contemporary forms, and
so you'll see even current media reflectsome of those same ideologies of the broken,

(14:26):
the impoverished, the unworthy Black family. Absolutely, because see we are
I'm gonna work my way from likewe were talking about Good Times up to
ass you were talking about the rappers, so forth and so on. So
all right, I was doing somereading on esther role. She played Florida
in Good Time and esther role,people who may or may not realize it,
was an extremely powerful actress at thattime. She was from Jamaican descent,

(14:52):
and she, as I said,as an actress, as an African
American actress, had some juice inHollywood, if you will. So when
they originally wrote Good Times, itwas going to be Florida as a single
mother. There was no James writtenin there, there was no father written
in there. And esther role madeit very clear if you do not put

(15:15):
a father figure in this sitcom,I will not play the mother. I
will not be a part of thisif you're not going to have us as
an intac family, because every blackfamily is not just single mother household exactly
that there are black families who areintact to have mother father kids. So
she was very clear on that.And Norman Lear and all the folks that
were putting and producing, putting theshow together. They acquiesced to her request.

(15:39):
They're like, oh, you knowwhat, all right, we want
you enough that we will do whatyou're asking. So she was the one
that stood up and said, Iwill not do that. If you're going
to perpetuate that the only way ablack family is together is through a single
mother, that I'm not doing that. That whole you know, the whole

(16:00):
notion of good time, like Isaid, if you juxtapose that against like
a Brady Bunch, so forth andso on, and you're absolutely right,
because see, this is the thingwhen I talk to people all the time.
There's a lot of subliminal messaging that'ssent through the media. Absolutely.
Sometimes it's blatant, sometimes it's stark, but most instances it's subliminal. Absolutely.

(16:26):
And that's a really good example ofthe power of black women in these
industries, right, And we'll talkabout that. That's one of the last
chapters in the book to talk abouthow black media creatives and entertainers are taking
hold of the media and saying we'renot buying into or subscribing to these anti
black and anti black women ideologies inthe media. They're creating their own space.

(16:48):
But so that's the perfect example becauseat the time of the show Good
Time, that whole idea of ablack family instability did not correlate with the
data. But yet we were startingto see shows that were reflected the black
women as the matriarchy of the familyand the black male as absentee and largely
absentee because of alcoholism and criminality,and so those messages contradicted the reality.

(17:12):
Like think about it, in thefifties and through the sixties, you saw
the black family on the front lineduring the civil rights movements, for example,
through the seventies and early eighties andthe Black Power movement and the Black
student movement, you saw families onthe front line. And when you look
at the actual research data, youstill see that marriage was a high value

(17:33):
among African Americans and that majority offamilies early on we're still in two parent
hated households. And so it's justthe contradiction, and that's what media racism
looks like. It's when we representcommunities, in particular, for the focus
of this book, black families andblack communities in ways that contradict their actual

(17:53):
lives realities. Now you're absolutely right, because all right, now I'm going
to zoom from Good Times to theCosby Show. Now we had you know,
Felicia Rashad, who's down there atHoward. You have Bill Cosby,
you had the kids and everything.And I actually had someone tell me,
oh, that's not reality, thatthat could never happen. You could never

(18:15):
have a black doctor and a blacklawyer married with family and house and kids.
I mean, somebody actually told methat, like, that's just not
that's not reality. And at thetime, I did know a couple they
were to reverse where on the CosbyShow, Bill Cosby was the doctor and
clear was the lawyer. I knewa couple where the husband was the lawyer

(18:37):
and the wife was the doctor.And so I said, wait a minute,
that's not true, because I knowpeople who are living that exact lifestyle.
And yet you had a large,a good part of the population was
under that mindset of oh, that'snot reality, that could not happen.
Now. They could not accept that. But they could accept us being you
know, like you said, drunkards. They could us being you know,

(19:00):
pimps, and this, that andthe other that they could accept, but
they couldn't accept the fact that nowyou had in front of you a doctor
and a lawyer and an intact family. One of my favorite, it still
is one of my favorite sitcoms,goes back from the fifties. It was
The Honeymooners with Ralph and Alice andso forth and so on, and again
I had somebody tell me, oh, I don't like that show because again

(19:22):
and now, in that particular casewith Ralph and Norton and all that,
they were lower class white and youhad Ralph and they're like the whole male
dominance, the gender thing going on. So I had a Caucasian woman saying,
oh, she didn't like that.Well, how is it you could
like it when it's depicted for blackfamilies to be like that, but you
don't like it when it's depicted forwhite families to be like that. Well,

(19:47):
I'll talk about a little bit ofDaniel P. Morninghan's report for the
US Department of Labor in nineteen sixtyfive, and that report, called the
Negro Family the Case of National Action, ultimately argue that it was the black
woman who created this framework for thispathological dysfunction among black families, because the

(20:07):
black woman was becoming too educated,was becoming too gainfully employed, essentially saying
that the black women stopped taking careof white families and as a result,
the black family was falling apart.All of his research was not based in
any evidence, his personal assessments andassumptions, I would argue, And what

(20:29):
it did was that it affirmed theneed for white male patriarchy and for black
families to reflect that. And sowhen you put out a report like that
saying that black children would be thecause of all crimes, personal crimes against
of the persons, for example,that black men would be emasculated, and
that black women pursuing of education andcareers would be problematic, then you have

(20:55):
media and policies reflecting those types ofmessages. And so when you get a
show like The Cosbys and later showslike The Fresh Prince of bel Air,
it becomes a contradiction to the publicnarrative that we have been socialized to believe,
and we've been socialized for centuries tobelieve this about black families, that

(21:15):
they were not valuable, that theblack male was not a successful contributor to
the black family, and that theblack woman was emasculating to the black male.
So when you see those types ofrepresentations, we fail to believe them
even when we see them on adaily basis, and we still see representations

(21:36):
of highly educated black couples raising theirchildren and active in their communities to this
day, that is still a veryprominent representation among black communities and black families.
But see, therein lies the problem. What you're just saying is that
perpetuation of a construct, is thatperpetuation of stereotypes, is that perpetuation of

(22:00):
like you said, socialization. Andthere are folks, especially in the climate
that we're in now, who reallywants to go back. I mean,
when we're talking make America great again, that's really what we're That's really what
the underlying tone of that is,Like, let us get back to exactly
what you to describe, but blackwomen in the kitchen serving white families.
Let us get back to slavery.Let's get That's what the underlying message is

(22:23):
there. Make them because in manyminds, that's when America was great,
exactly, and it was the samecampaign slogan that bringing you, and it
worked then and it worked for Trumpas well, because it's this idea that
the white American middle class family modelis the model that follows and that model

(22:45):
says that whiteness is greatness and thateveryone else must shed off their own cultural
identity in order to adopt a whiteAmerican family model. Well, when we
look at what that model is,yes, some people simplified as you know,
husband, wife, two and ahalf, kids, and a dog,
right picket fence and home ownership.What they also don't realize that's the

(23:08):
erasisture of black culture, that isthe erasisture of Black cultural values, black
heritage, black history. Do wenot see that happening with the band in
the books, with the bann inthe curriculum, with the opposition towards AP
courses and African American studies. Wesee this constantly because what we find in

(23:30):
those books, in those courses,in that curriculum is that African Americans have
been significant contributors not just to Americanhistory and American culture of values, but
to global history. Right, Africanpeople have been instrumental in shaping the world.
And so yet we want to banthose things because we're making America great

(23:52):
again. It's returning back to whitesupremacy as the dominant form of American social
politics and Americans in social order.That is correct, matter of fact,
I'm sitting here looking at your booksaying your book wouldn't even make it to
the state of Florida. They wouldstop your book at the border, like,

(24:12):
no, this one's not coming in. But yeah, exactly, this
will join the list of the band. Yes, but in all seriousness going
back, it's the perpetuation. Andsee, for people who look at things
through the lens of what you andI are talking about today, we can

(24:34):
see it. But there are alot of people who can't. Matter of
fact, when I get into discussionslike this, depending on who I'm talking
to, they tell me, oh, you think too deep, And my
pushback is, well, no,you don't think deep enough. And I'll
give you an example. Years ago, Denzel Washington, Haley Berry, both
of them are won those Oscars orwhichever Emmy's whichever one it was, they

(24:56):
want them at the same time losttheir minds. Oh they just thought it
was the greatest thing going. AndI said, no, I don't.
I said that. Why you don'tthink so? I said, because you
need to look at what the messagewas sent there? Because Denzel Washington and
Haley both of them had played someextremely significant and powerful roles as positive black

(25:21):
people and never won an award forthose roles. Denzel now plays a role
cop in Training Day. Matter offact, that's out of all of Denzel
films I've seen, in my viewtraining because there are people who love Training
Day. I didn't. But inany event, he plays a rogue cop
in Training Day. That's what hereceived. Now, mind you forget Glory,

(25:42):
forget Denzel, forget all these otherpowerful roles. He's played a rogue
cop. That's what he gets awardedfor. Haley on the same deal Dorothy
Dandridge losing Isaiah other powerful roles.She now gets the award for Monster's Ball
because she strips butt naked in there, and so yeah, here she is.

(26:04):
Because see, this is what Iwas trying to tell folks. Do
you understand the message I was beingsent was that was this is how we
see you. As long as youstay in the framework that we see you
in, we will award you.But once you step out of that into
an area that that's not how wesee you, we're not going to award
you. For some people, Ohyou think too deep, No, you

(26:25):
don't think deep enough. Yes,that's the classic representations of the Jezebels.
For the black woman and thus thugsfor the black male. And there were
mirrors like in G. W.Griffins nineteen fifteen The Birth of the Nation
Gus right in this representation of theblack man as being hyper criminal and untrustworthy

(26:47):
even when representing law enforcement. Andso you know your A. Dallases,
I will argue it's spot on thatit was problematic in the sense that one,
there were much more positive and strongerrails that these actresses and actors have
represented and many others who have beenoverlooked to this day. But at the

(27:07):
same time, the ones that werein fact selected played into these century old
myths and stereotypes about black men andblack women. There was not a departure.
This is just modernized forms of oldstereotypes. The Jezebel is the loose
black woman who is sexually subeductive,lacks education, lacks the will power to

(27:30):
be gainfully employed for example, andself sustaining, unable to take care for
children, have illegitimate children. Right. And so when you see halle Berry
play this role and succumbs to asexual relationship with a white male, and
that exact scene of her now strippingdown, as you stated, right,

(27:52):
it's the scene in which you seethis grow tesque representation of black women.
It does not even parallel her earlierscenes in the movie where she is showing
dedication to her loved one who isnow facing the death penalty, but instead
it shows this abandonment. She hasno morals, she has no value,

(28:15):
She has no value for the blackmale as well. That and that she
relies on the good will of whitemen in order to survive in order to
move forward in her life. Sohighly problematic roles, but highly rewarded roles
at the same time. And ifyou look historically, those were the roads

(28:36):
that those types of images are theroads that oftentimes get the accolades. It
is not the roles that challenge thestereotypes, that challenge the false racist ideologies.
It's the roles that play into those. It's the roles that amplify those
ideologies that are oftentimes highly rewarded.Absolutely, I told you when I had

(29:00):
discussion, I get, hey,well, oh you think too deep,
But that's exactly what was going onthere. We were being, like I
said, rewarded for that's the pigeonholethat we put you in. Now,
going back to what we were talkingabout, with power folks in power,
you get somebody like an Angela Bassettor a Danny Glover or those that will
say, no, I'm not doingthat role. No I'm not taking that.

(29:21):
If that's what's in there I wantedthey did the same thing as the
role did. If that's what's inthere, I won't be in there.
So if you want me to bein it, you're gonna make some changes.
Absolutely, And unfortunately they're just notenough individuals who own the media and
who are at the table making thosedecisions, who will even listen to those,
even those most powerful Black actors andactresses. And so you have individuals

(29:45):
like Ava Duvenea ether Ray having tocreate their own production company, having secure
funded outside of major production companies,in order to put on films and shows
that they believe in. They seemvalue and we see value in right,
because we gravitate to those shows.But we see value in those things.

(30:06):
At the same time, it doesnot fit within this racialized model of how
African Americans and how black people Africanpeople in the diasporin around the world,
are represented, right, It doesnot fit within that. So for decades
we saw this representation of Africa forexample, as very impoverished, as having

(30:26):
no resources, as needing the goodwill of white people to go in and
save right Africa and its children.And what really it was is the perpetuation
of these racist ideas about Africa inorder to justify the continued colonization, what
we call neo colonialism in Africa.Right is that same idea that we see

(30:48):
here with African American women and theblack family, you see this with black
men and black children, is thatthese images represent us as criminals, as
un fit for motherhood, as unfitfor fatherhood, as untrustworthy, as that
uninterested in education. And as aresult of that, when we are met
with public policies that then reflect thisneed for social control. And so in

(31:15):
the book, I argue that ifwe pay attention to what is happening in
the media currently and has happened inthe most recent years, we're able to
predict the future public policies that aregoing to become an out that are anti
black family, anti black women,anti black male. So when you look
at these reality television shows, forexample, and almost every single show you're

(31:41):
seeing, and it's not exclusive,it's not all shows, but it's the
majority of shows on broadcast network thatdominates on mass media. You see these
shows where black women are constantly fightingin public spaces, no matter what country
they're is. That's right, nomatter where they are at baby shower,
they're fighting. They're fighting at christianing, they're fighting in the church, they're

(32:04):
fighting that social activists of events,they be legitimize individuals involvement and social conscious
activities for example. And so youconstantly see these images of this violent,
out of control black women. Sowe cannot be surprising when we started seeing
policies or additional policies. I wouldargue, additional policies seeking to control the

(32:29):
black woman, her body and herreproductive rights. And see, you went
exactly where my next question was goingto go in terms of you touching on
the reality TV shows. And seeagain, that's why immediately, just like
we were talking earlier about being misdiagnosedas a child, especially an African American
child, many women are misdiagnosed asangry Black women. And part of the

(32:52):
reason they're misdiagnosis, and I'm usingmisdiagnosed for lack of a better term.
The reason they're missed diagnosis ain't forwhat you just said. And this goes
back to what I was talking aboutwith the subliminal programming. Yes, absolutely,
and it ties in, especially whenit comes to the angry black woman
is also largely attached to professional blackwomen. We see and so with that

(33:17):
set and they use and we thinkabout what we're seeing in the headlines right
now, professional black women think aboutit. In higher education, in academia,
you see professional black women being firedand removed, being disgraced from their
jobs, not necessarily legitimately. Yousee suicide. You're seeing black women's mental
health declines. You see the amongprofessional and highly educated black women reduce birth

(33:44):
rates, high infant mortality rates,even high mortality rates doing pregnancy as well
and delivery. And so what you'reseeing is that there's this disconnect between the
parallels of these highly racist, toxicworkspace environments, right these racially hostile environments
against black women, and when blackwomen respond legitimately to that racist terrorism that

(34:07):
they're experiencing in the workplace, they'reconsidered angry, hostile, problematic, and
their response could be monotone. Itcan be official paperwork, it can be
the simple questioning, it can betheir response in silence their silence is policed.
I can't tell you the number ofblack women I speak to on a
regular including my own reality, wherewe are policed in the workplace, our

(34:32):
mere presence, the way we walkaway, we look if we don't speak,
if we speak in the morning,for example, there's this constant policing
of black women. So no matterif you're silent or if you are vocal
about the injustices that you see inthe workplace environment, you're the angry black
woman because it plays into this stereotypeof this century old characterization of the black

(34:57):
woman in the workplace as a sapphire. She's too educated, she's too smart,
right, and as a result,she's characterized as problematic and challenging the
status quo by status quo white maleleadership, right, challenge to white male
leadership, it's a challenge to whitewoman's leadership, right, because we're completely

(35:23):
told get in the back, likeit's white men, then it's white women
us, right, and then whatDaniel P. Morning says, they get
even further back because then it shouldbe the black male when it comes down
to African Americans as the illustration.But we know there are many other reasons
who get much further in front ofus when we're talking about those leadership positions.

(35:43):
So when black women are in theposition of leadership, their authority is
then mischaracterized as hostility, as angersimply by mere fact of them being in
the position of authority and leadership.So it becomes a highly problematic represent patient
in the media that's perpetuated that thenreinforces the negative assumptions and that we see

(36:06):
in the workplace, such that asa black woman say something as simple as
I wonder if there's another way wecan look at this, Oh, what
do you say, is it becomesa hostile attack on her for having a
difference of opinion. Highly problematic realityis that we face in real life,
and unfortunately those things are not translatedon the television. Instead, where the
scandal where the problem. We're theangry ones in the workplace creating these issues

(36:31):
for ourselves and everyone else. AsI was saying, you're spot on,
because if we can go through alitany or a laundry list. Oh,
just over the last few months,you got President Gay there at Harvard,
you have Letitia James here in NewYork, you have the the I'm trying
to think of the young lady's namewho did commit suicide down at Lincoln.

(36:52):
You have Fanny Willis down in Georgia. You have some you know, the
list goes on and on in termsof and again, look at the things
that they're that they're the they're pullingout for lack of a better phrase about
them and what they represent. Again, you have, uh, doctor Gay
would be representing cheating. Okay,you have Fanny Willis, which would be

(37:15):
representing back to again the promiscuity.You have the young lady that committed suicide,
the mental health issue. So they'redefinitely targeting and pulling and perpetuating this
image of and at the same timethat's nothing different. I'm not condoning one
way or the other, but I'msaying mountains are made out of mole hills

(37:38):
that have been done by others.The fact that you have somebody with ninety
one charges still able to run forthe presidency of the United States, and
yet you go after doctor Gay fora pacomma or either parentheses or something placed
in the wrong place or a statementthat was you go after her for that

(37:59):
where she winds up lose her jobversus this one has ninety one charges and
is able to still run for thehighest office in the land because we have
normalized white male leadership under any andall conditions. I mean, if you
think about it, Historically, whitemale leadership has represented the enslavement of African

(38:19):
people, has represented segregation, hasrepresented the criminalization of poverty, the criminalization
of black families, the criminalization ofthe ghetto. Right, if you think
about these things, right, andthen and then also this hyper policing of
black communities, this is who presshiphas represented historically and contemporarily, right,

(38:40):
And so that is in line.Like so when we think about Trump's representation
in his campaign to make America greatagain, he said, let's get in
line what white male leadership's approach toAmerican governance. But yet black women and
are represented in these very high outin toxic ways. But this is something

(39:01):
I talk about in chapter three,unhealthy representation of Black women in television dramas.
And these television dramas we have found, and some of them we love.
So you know, y'all don't comefrom me, because I've analyzing some
of y'all shows that y'all absolutely fellin love with, and y'all love the
characters is because black women is brillianton the screen make you fall in love
with these characters. But that doesn'tmean that these characters representations are not problematic

(39:27):
images like scandals for example Olivia Pope, Analyst Keenan and how to Get Away
with Murder When You Marry Jane andBeing Mary Jane for example, these women
are all the controversy in their ownlives. They are represented as untrustworthy right,
the cheating idea, right when youtalk about President Gates, right,

(39:49):
the whole untrustworthy, criminal behavior,bending the rules, blurring the lines as
illustration. They're represented as having highsexual I risk sexual lifestyle. They're involved
with married men for example, they'reinvolved with multiple sexual affairs as another illustration.
Right, so you see this representationas well being linked to black women

(40:12):
and leadership. They have mental healthcrisis, they rely heavily on alcohol consumption
as another illustration. They're disconnected fromtheir families and their communities, and even
like with a Being Mary Jane,while she has that relationship is represented as
a toxic relationship where she sees themas a burden to her lifestyle and she
doesn't include them on her real livedexperiences and realities and her struggles. And

(40:37):
so when you see these types ofrepresentation, and they all have abandoned motherhood
and tell Mary Jane in a veryfinal season, in the very last few
episodes, she now becomes awakened andbecomes a mother who has achieved everything that
she's desired without ever showing her puttingin the work to earn that in her
life. Right. But in thoseshows, why while we have fell in

(41:00):
love with the characters because of thetalent of black women to bring life to
those images, right, those imageshave been very problematic. And so when
you see those images conclude, nowyou also see So when that's what I
was saying, I guess to thinkabout what we're seeing, what policies,
what practices, what social behaviors areconferts who we say as a result or

(41:22):
we're seeing as a result of thesetypes of images. Not exclusively, but
these images have been impactful for howwe treat black women. So we're treating
black women in a way. Americanhas been emboldened by this subjugation of black
women, this criminalization of black women, in this public attack on black women

(41:42):
leaders in these public spaces, andas a result of that, they're being
fired, they're being forced to leavetheir jobs, they're quitting their jobs,
they're committing suicide, they're facing themajor mental health crisis, and we can
imagine a host of other things happeningin our pertional lives as a result of
this type of treatment. But Americareally has become emboded with this mistreatment of

(42:06):
Black women in professional spaces. We'veseen it for centuries, with the mistreatment
of Black women in general, right, affluent or otherwise, but we're seeing
even more invoted. And I thinkthat what I'm trying to argue here and
the text, is that in thesame way that we saw these representations at
the Crack Mama and the Baby Mama, with the Cracked Mama era and all

(42:29):
those representations of black women as relyingon drug consumption at the expense of motherhood
and as expense of their babies lives, we saw a flood of public policies
and public practices that criminalized the blackwomen and took away and restricted her reproductive
rights right in her right to motherhood. And then also you saw with the

(42:51):
Baby Mama, then you saw thisidea of an epidemic emerging of black women
being ill prepared to be mothers touh maintain a family unit. And so
you saw this representation of the singleblack mother, right, the young single
black mother relying on welfare. Sowhat do we see welfare reform? So

(43:13):
now that we're seeing this, whatare we going to see next? What's
the next wave of policies when wesee representations of black women in this way
and then we stand it acted outon the public stage against black professional women.
What is the next wave of publicpolicy we can anticipate as a result
of this. No, you're righton as a matter of fact, going
back, like I was saying withLetitia James here in New York, because

(43:34):
you know, each one of thesethese cases against our former many of them
are headed up by African American women. Like I said, you have Fanny
down in Georgia, you have Leticiaup here in New York. You have
Alfren Bragg down there in that DCarea. But I mean Trump's I don't
know if she still is lawyer ornot. But this Alina Habba, for
the most part, she publicly saidLetitia James was stupid. That was pretty

(43:59):
much I'm I'm paraphrasing, but that'spretty much what she was intimating. As
she was making her commentary a fewweeks ago. Everything that you just said
is what this woman Alena Haba wasimplying about Letitia James, and you know,
it just goes on and on.Listening, audience, I hope you've
been with me since six, butcertainly I hope you've been with me since
seven. As we're talking about thebook Media Racism, the Impact of media

(44:22):
injustice on Black women's lives. Theauthor of that book is my guest this
morning, Marquita M. Gamage,pH D. Earlier, when we started
talking, you said one of thethings that influenced you in terms of writing
this was the whole notion of howwe've been portrayed by our rappers. Now,

(44:42):
as we were talking and you justsaid it a couple of minutes ago
about folks might be getting tested becauseyou were going after Scandal and all that
kind of stuff. I didn't watchany of those shows. Matter of fact,
I never watched manches Ball intentionally becauseof That's why I refused to watch
them. And so now do wesometimes become our own worst anyway because most

(45:06):
of our hip hoppers and rappers areAfrican American, and yet they are the
ones calling all our women female,dogs and whores. Yes. So,
one of the things about hip hopis that it really started off as a
cultural force in our communities to saythat we exist, we are here,

(45:29):
we have something that's work being seen, we have something to have joy about
because black joy matters, right,we have something to bring that right to
bring into the world. And wesee still to this day, hip hop
is very influential to the global audience, right in terms of fashion, style,
hairstyling, you know, linguistics.We see all of these different ways

(45:50):
that hip hop has influenced the worldindustry, right in terms of economic industry.
But yet you see these contentious representationsto wars black women historically black men,
because it's not just the assault onblack women in hip hop, it's
asault on black men and black familiesand hip hop as well. But then
you also have black female rappers engagedin this as well, because it says

(46:15):
that in order for you to bethe best, you have to perpetuate these
certain types of representations. Right.So empty light of Queenlandtifa never reached the
height of some of the most popularblack female rappers because they didn't fall in
line. I would argue with thesystemic assault on black womanhood with the parallel

(46:37):
of the Jezebel, the hypersexual blackwomen right, who is willing to shake
in the thong or almost a notethong right on television shows, on war
for shows, on and music videos. And then this current quote unquote beefs
among some of the top black femalerappers that keeps happening. And so now

(46:59):
we see one currently between Manga Stallionand Nicki Minaj, and it's one of
those we're playing, We're entertaining ourselves. We are abiding into this falsified beef
between two black prominent female rappers,when the real beef against black women is

(47:20):
America. You know, Americas thematicallyassaulted, rape, abused, enslaved,
terrorized, criminal lives right and continuesand continues to terrorize the black woman in
this country. And so that's whereour real beef should lie, not necessarily
among each other, and our energynecessary should necessarily be pulled into a tradition

(47:45):
and hip hop and rapp in particularof battle rappings. Right, we're pouring
our energy into a battle rap that'shappening among black female rappers that many will
argue has got out of line.However, when we think about whether real
be flies, it's not among blackwomen entertainers. Right. It's like saying,

(48:07):
well, so and so got thisrole in the movie versus someone else,
and I think I could have dida better job. I was much
more deserved. Where the reality isthere's just not enough job, there's just
not enough faces. There's this falsecompetition that's created among black women in these
media industries and music and television andfilm, this false competition that only you,

(48:30):
only one of you, right,if any of you at all will
be able to stand in this position. We were able to stand at the
top. There's not enough room forall of you, right, There's not
enough room for even two of youto stand in those positions. So we
create this false competition which we notjust see in these type of music and

(48:52):
media industries. We see this inin every industry where black women are pitting
against each other in the workplace.This is who and that's part of America's
you know, promotion of anti blackwomanhood. Now that's correct, because see
all of this stuff is by design. And this is why a lot of
time when we have conversations like this, either people get lost or they just

(49:14):
don't think that deep or they youknow, they think we're conspiracy theorism.
But the truth of the matter isthis stuff is done by design. It
is a Now it's not like somebody'sjust sitting they're like, well, just
see how can I go after blackwomen? No, it's not that.
It's overall. You have to connectthe dots with everything that's going on.
And this gets back into again theperpetuation of what roles are we offered?

(49:37):
What roles do we take? Again, we may be the most wonderful actress
in the world, but what messageare you sending through your role or what
message are you perpetuating and continuing throughyour role? So you're going back to
what you were saying about scandal.That was my issue with Denzel and Haley
won in those awards. So Imean, I don't think people aren because

(50:00):
again Norman Lear, he just passedaway not to but I don't think people
really understood the brilliance of what NormanLear was really saying. Even with the
show All in the Family with ArchieBunker, I don't think people really understood
what Lear was trying to show throughArchie Bunker, because if you remember that
show, most of the time Archiewas wrong, but Archie represented Caucasian male.

(50:24):
Most of the time Archie was wrong. I don't think folks picked up
on what Norman Leo was really tryingto get across there. And so we
can send messaging through media, whichis what I think you're getting at here.
In terms of media, regardless ofwhether it's television, radio, streaming,

(50:50):
movies, what have you, it'sstill perpetuating this whole notion of black
female being unweth I mean when youthink, right, because I see you
mentioned Michelle Obama in the book too, really seriously, because she showed her
arms because her shoulders were out.Really, I mean when you think about

(51:14):
Fox News erroraneously proclaiming that we shouldleave Barack Obama's baby mama alone, right,
that she's been attacked as a babymama, Like that's the area's representation,
right, the old fixation on herwardrobe. Right, so now she's

(51:34):
framed as a fashionissa and her herdegrees, her work experience, her community
activism, all of that has washedaside for what she's wearing. Right,
Even the selection of music as shewalks on stage for different events, right,
becomes problematic, And how they situateher in those settings. This this
salsification of her being a baby mama. Definition of a baby mama is a

(51:58):
unwitted mother. Well, Michelle Obamadidn't have her children out of wet locke
and she's not a single mother.That's correct, clear contradiction. But yet
it doesn't matter because all black womenare categorized in this way of unfit for
motherhood. And I would argue thatMichelle Obama's major campaigns have been yes,

(52:22):
in support of her husband, formerPresident Barack Obama, but it also has
been her proclamation and rights to womanhoodand motherhood as a black woman. If
you look at her speeches, ifyou look at what she's talking about,
her most valued right roles in theworld, in her life and her destiny
has been her role of mother.Right has been her role as a black

(52:45):
mother. And yet that's largely ignoredbecause we want to fixate on what clothing
is she wear, what she made, what did she you know, and
we're completely ignoring her her proclamation ofblack womanhood, her proclamation of womanhood is
largely ignored, and she's been youknow, demonized as a anti American terrorist,

(53:08):
have been painted by a foreign magazineas a product of enslavement, right,
You've seen that might have seen thatimage of her her face superimposed on
an image of an enslaved black womanwith a bust exposed, for example.
Those types of representations, once againare systemic attacks on Black women. So

(53:30):
here you highly educated, professional blackwoman, who is a mother, who
is the community advocate, who's beenframed as illegitimate baby mama, who's been
framed as a descendant of enslaved people, who has been and as if the

(53:50):
mere fact has been a descendant ofan enslaved person means that you have no
value. Well, enslaved Africans neverlost their value. I mean not even
monetary. That's why there was aprice. That's why even when someone ran
away, you had a reward.So we never lost even monetary value when
you put us in that little categorythat I don't subscribe to the place value

(54:12):
placed at African people, right,But not even to their own metrics,
did we lose value. But yetthe media continue perpetuates this idea that black
people, black women, black families, black culture has no value and as
a result of that, we needto be policed. As a result of
that, we need to be anunder some form of social control. And

(54:35):
that's the danger of the next waveof public policies is what does social control
look like in the twenty first centurygoing into the next century, Because what
we've seen in the past is socialcontrol meant colonialism, enslavement, segregation,
Jim Crow, mass incarceration, right, sterilization. What does it mean next?

(54:59):
What does it next? Us?Now you're again on point, correct
spot on whichever way you want towhatever word you want to use for affirmation
and confirming absolutely. Years ago,back in the nineties, I taught diversity.
I actually travel around the country forAT and T and I was teaching

(55:21):
leading workshops, facilitating workshops in diversity. And they would always they made sure
that because it was always two orthree of us together as facilitators, and
they made sure the facilitation team wasas diverse as they could get. It
was never two or three of thesame people together at one time. So
you never have two straight males,you never have two straight women. You

(55:45):
never have one black man or twoblack men or three black women. You
would never have homogenous group. Itwas always diverse. And one of the
exercises we would do during that trainingwas we would put up those big post
it notes, big poster size postit notes, and we would post them
around the conference room and we wouldput categories on their Black women, black

(56:07):
men, white men, white women, jewish men, we would put Hispanics,
we would put jocks, we wouldput I mean, it was like
a laundry list of categories, becauseit was an exercise about stereotypes. And
this is what we would tell theparticipants. We would tell the students,
all right, listen, this doesnot have to be what you write down

(56:27):
on the little sticky does not haveto be what you believe. It could
be something you've heard on television orseen on television, or you've heard,
but it doesn't have to be somethingyou believe. What we'd like for you
to do is on the little yellowstickies, write down anything that you've heard
or know and think about those particulargroups that's on the big posted paper Doctor

(56:51):
Gamage. Without fail, no matterwhere I went around the country, we
got the same things on those stickynotes. I could have just taken the
sticky notes from one workshop and justtook them with me to the next one
and put them up on the board. Myself under black women lazy shiftless have
a lot of babies. I'm tryingto think of some out. I mean,
just you know again, I lovethe sex, you know, angry.

(57:15):
I mean, the stickies were thesame, and at that time,
the movie White Men Can't Jump wasout, So when it came to every
session that I went to, somebodywould have to be the one on their
sticky under white Men would say can'tjump. We were trying to show that
there's no such thing as a goodor a bad stereotype. That like stereotypes,

(57:37):
no matter which way, whether youthink they're a good way there because
under Hispanics fifty live in a house, fifty driving a car, all smell
like garlic. I mean, wegot unto Jewish people, cheap run everything
about jewelry about I mean, theywere the same no matter where I went
around the country. We came towhite women a homemaker, very soft spoken,
easygoing housewife. I mean it.I'll bet you if I did that

(58:01):
exercise right now in twenty twenty four, I bet you it would come up
the same. I believe you.I you know, people don't realize the
power of the media. You know, it used to be your family,
your church community, or your religiouscommunity, your actual community your peer groups,
your school, or the primary socializingagents. Media is one of the

(58:22):
main socializing agents, especially with thewave of social media is one of the
primary socializing agents, not just foryou, but for adults as well.
And so the media plays a significantrole in creating perceptions and ideas, these
ideologies around groups of people. Andso even when the data does it,

(58:45):
even when the data does not reflectit. So it's not just the news
that promotes false information, but thesetelevision shows, radio station songs, you
know, all these things can promotethese same racist ideas about groups. They
are positive or negative. I mean, take the historic misuse of the African
Americans and water. Use of watermelonas a means of economic mobility was then

(59:12):
stereotype because there was a threat tothe idea that only white men and white
families could have economic mobility and economicpower they can have business ownership. Where
African Americans use their knowledge of rightof farming in the lands to be able
to grow watermelon. It was cheapseed to purchase to be able to go
forth and sell that and you gota large product out of it. And

(59:34):
they used that as seed money thento literally at seed money to then pour
into other businesses. Black business ownership, including the cellar watermelon, became as
threat to the white American narrative ofblack laziness, of black inferiority, of
black economic instability. It was acontradition to that in the same way that

(59:55):
you saw black Wall Street right inmultiple places, right, you saw this
in Tall. So you saw thiswhat Waco, right, the burndown,
the terrorizing of black economic strongholds becauseit contradicted the false narratives that black families
will economically rely on Americans public assistance, that black families were uneducated and they

(01:00:17):
could not be trusted financially or politicallyas an illustration if it did not fall
into line with that. And soas a result, you see white domestic
terrorism against Black communities, black businessownership. And so the whole mythology around
black unhealthy love for watermelons was reallya racist stereotype that was created to justify

(01:00:42):
the attack on black business ownership byselling the watermelon to raise funds to then
create economic stabilities for families and communities. And so that's why it's so important
that black media producers, black mediaowners and facts then create these counter narratives
right that address social justice issues likeable do. But they will when they

(01:01:02):
see us, for example, thatreclaim the African American family heritage, and
that's your celebrations of blackness and blackculture and black heritage, right, And
so we see this in songs andso as a result, we don't always
buy into those. So when Beyoncey, for example, declared black is King,
right, or when she addressed socialissues in her Lemonade album, for

(01:01:27):
example, people were like, oh, my goodness, you know what is
she doing. This is out ofline, out of touch. Well,
she's still a black woman in America. Correct, close to these things.
She's still a black man. Sheused her platform to address different themes and
to showcase the diversity of black cultureand the blackest king for example. And
yet there's these attacks when these typesof representations are done so in the same

(01:01:51):
way that we're seending these banning ofbooks. Don't be surprised that we see
these banning of movies. Are thesenot lack of endorsement of movies? So
when we say, oh, wellthey put out this movie but it wasn't
well supported. One of the thingsI like to point to people is like,
where did you see that movie?Running? Was it in any black
community for the develop where right,So, like the movie Origin that's out
right now with Ava Duvinet, Ifound one theater in my area showing this

(01:02:17):
twice a day on the weekends onlyas an illustration. So like, let's
not act like this is going tobe bucking office hits when they're not being
picked up by these theaters in theseproduction houses to be able to show and
actually have the audience to meet thosebox office fills. Like, let's be
realistic about this. But we don'tlook at those numbers to stay. We

(01:02:38):
say, Oh, people don't wantto keep seeing these narratives. People don't
want to keep talking about race.No, it's the media that doesn't want
us to engage in these critical conversationsabout race. Media doesn't necessarily support right
because of this racist structure. Doesnot support celebrations of blackness, celebrations of
in the return to the black familyheritage, or counter narratives that challenge these

(01:03:02):
falsifications of our history. The mediadoes not support that because the contradition to
is very existent. One hundred correct, ladies and gentlemen listening, audience,
and Marquita, we've come down tothe end of our interview. But what
I do here is I turn offmy mic and you have the opportunity to

(01:03:22):
promote, And the only thing youcan't say when we do that is a
dollar amount. Anything short of that, the mic will be yours. But
ladies and gentlemen, we've been talkingabout the book Media Racism, the Impact
of Media and Justice on Black Women'slives, and the author of that book
is Marquita M. Gamage, PhD, so doctor Gamage. At this point,

(01:03:47):
I am going to turn off themicrophone. You have three to five
minutes or so to promote anything youlike to promote. Like I said,
the only thing you cannot say isa dollar amount. But anything short of
that, the mic is yours.Thank you so much, Mark, it's
been a pleasure talking with you thismorning. To the listening audience. The

(01:04:11):
book is a good read because itchallenges what we are seeing in the media
currently and what we have seen overthe past decades, and how the media
continues to use representations of black familieswithin a stereotypical framework to promote messages that
then are endorsed by public policies andpolitical figures that reinforce these racist ideas about

(01:04:36):
African Americans. But media racism isn'tlimited to African Americans. We've seen media
racistly attacked other groups as well.But for the focus of this book,
which is media racism, the impactof media and justice on Black women's lives,
the focus is on how these misrepresentations, these very strategic and systematic racist

(01:05:00):
representations, are designed to hear thepublic away from supporting black families by way
of not supporting the black woman.And so I want to encourage you always
pick up the book. It's availableeverywhere books are sold. You can go
right to Universal Rights publications or websitesand secure the book. There. We're

(01:05:26):
available once again on multiple platforms.I do look forward to engaging more about
the book. I think it's importanttopic to discuss because we haven't framed media
in this way before. Instead,we've talked about individual shows, songs,
genres, for example. But whenwe look at the larger scale industry media

(01:05:53):
itself, mass media, we're talkingabout newspapers, print, advertisements, social
media, television, film, radio, all and the sort. When we
think about it as a larger,interconnected, interwoven system that socializes the public
and really the world into how wethink about certain groups and that's a powerful

(01:06:16):
industry that we have to interrogate,especially when we look at research studies.
A lot of studies will show thatmany folks don't have interactions with African Americans
on a daily, weekly, monthly, or ever basis, but yet they
have these perceptions and assumptions about Blackfamilies, about Black women, about black

(01:06:40):
men, where we have to askourselves where does this come from? Right,
it comes from their home environments aswell, but also the media plays
a significant role in socializing the publicinto how we think about particular groups.
And so I want to invite youall to engage with me in this work

(01:07:00):
about media racism and start to payattention to the images that we're seeing,
the messages that we're seeing, thesefalse beasts and entanglements that are becoming a
dominant narrative around black women. Whatdoes that mean for us in the future
in terms of public policy. Iwant to thank you Mark once again for
this opportunity to talk to dialogue withyou to dive a little bit more into

(01:07:25):
the book. I thank you forthis opportunity and I look forward to continuing
to dialogue with your audience and largeraudiences about how we can begin to transform
the media into an affirmative space forpeople of African descent. Thank you again.
Well, I thank you, asI said, for rising early,

(01:07:45):
because folks, Marquita is on theWest Coast, she's out there in California,
so while it's eight ten here,it's about five ten there roughly there
about sowhere, so that's three hoursbehind us. So I thank you for
rising early and having this thought evokingdiscussion this morning, and I record the
show, so I'm gonna put itup on my YouTube channel. For folks

(01:08:06):
who did not rise early with us, they still have an opportunity to hear
it because it will be on YouTubeas well as I will send you the
links, the MP three links,and you can I'll send you the MP
three as well as the YouTube linkand you can blast that out to anybody
you like once you get them toyours. I'm not worrying about copyrighting.
I'm not worrying about trademarking. I'mnot any more anything. I always want

(01:08:27):
the word out, so you canshare that any way you want once you
receive them. And yes, wewill definitely be in touch. I have
to once again thank doctor Iso Sakaifor hooking us up and connecting us.
And as you heard doctor Gammage say, the book is available. It is
published by Universal Right Publications, Soyou can go right to that website,

(01:08:48):
the Universal Right website, or likeshe said, it's on other platforms as
well. The website for Universe Rightis uwpbooks dot com. That's Capital U,
Capitol W Capitol P Capital boks dotcom. If you go there you

(01:09:11):
will find that book and many more. Because if it was really so much
January twenty seventh, yes, thetwenty third, I'm sorry because I wanted
to have you on to twenty seventh, right, so it was released.
This is hot off the presses,folks. Literally January twenty third is not
even a month old yet. Soagain, the title is Media Racism The
Impact of Media and Justice on BlackWomen's Lives. The author is Marquita m

(01:09:39):
damage pH d or Marquita again,thank you so much and we will definitely
be in touch. Thank you.It's been a great pleasure. Same here,
all right, take care now,