On A Clear Day You Can See College Athletics (Part 2 of 3) - Mat Stats 46

In this three-part series, MatStats does a business study using stats and financial data to help the viewers understand the drastic changes in college sports.  It is so confusing, it is tough to understand the business of college sports in 2025.  MatStats explores the revenues, expenses, & profits of college athletic departments in Part 1.  In Part 2 we dive into Revenue Sharing, NIL, & roster limits. In Part 3 we will discuss Congressional involvement, potential LLCs, more lawsuits, how many groups have their hands in the cookie jar, & most importantly the affects it could all have on college wrestling. 


Slideshow for Episode 46: https://www.mattalkonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/slideshow46.pdf

About Mat Stats
Welcome to the NWCA’s latest venture to help our favorite sport. Glenn Gormley, Jason Bryant and Kevin Hazard outline their effort to bring statistical analysis to wrestling. Mat Stats is the NWCA’s attempt to bring wrestling up to speed with so many other sports by incorporating stats. It is the same sport, the wrestlers are just older and better.
 
Mat Stats by the NWCA is a monthly podcast by the National Wrestling Coaches Association Apple Podcasts | Spotify | iHeartRadio | Podcast Addict | Castbox | RSS

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Statistics. They can mean many things. It can be a
batting average, a win percentage, correlations, and standard deviation. But
numbers aren't just for nerds. In life, decisions need data.
In wrestling decisions, projections and hypotheticals also need data. Here

(00:24):
on Matt Stats we take historical data, theories, and statistics
and apply it to the world's oldest and greatest sport.
Now to your trio of numerical nerd balls, Glenn Gormley,
Kevin Hazard, and Jason Bryant.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
And welcome back to the Matt Stats Show. Jason Brant
along with Glenn Gormiley and Kevin Hazard. We are back
after a trip to the convention. We've got part two
of On a clear day you can see College Athletics.
We will talk about what that title actually means. Glenn
will give us a reprise of that. I'm fresh off
a trip from the U twenty World Championships, where the

(01:02):
US men's freestyle team won a team title, the women's
finished fourth, and Greco our friends on the Greco Romans
side still have some work to do to reclaim the
shape that they had as a senior team that won
the world title back in twenty two thousand and seven.
Now was that long ago, But today we're talking more
college athletics. Last episode, Glenn gave us the wonderful acronym crap,

(01:24):
not as a synonym for a kakapoopoo, but you know,
in some cases you could probably say that cleverly rigged
accounting practices, which as someone who has gone on rants
upon rants upon rants on social and on this show
and on other shows, that is probably the best way
I've ever seen it applied when it comes to almost

(01:46):
exclusively Division one athletics accounting practices, because we've talked about
this on previous shows that why is it a Division
three school is going to look at the income brought
in by a roster of walk ons, and you know
it's non scholarship, and then look at that as a
bottom line gain for the university, whereas Division one for
some reason, they won't do that. But we will continue

(02:07):
to dive into the world of college athletics and the
money behind it. Glenn is our resident statistician. He's not
just some guy that likes stats. He's actually done schooling
for this. He done school, Kevin, he did school for this.
He did all right before we jump into it Glenn
rec Let's let's let's talk a little bit about the convention.

(02:28):
We got a chance to catch up there a little bit.
But Matt's staff, Matt Stat's booth was was I got
one complaint. Though I got one complaint, why wasn't I
sitting at the Matt Stats booth? I had other things
I was doing at the convention too. I had to
I had to introduce some things you don't for you. Yeah,
you know what. I just did not plan out my

(02:49):
my Matt Stat's timing. Well. So for that I do apologize.
But one thing I love about the convention. You get
a chance to see people. You know, normally you see
him around tournaments in the levels high or you seeven
Fargo and they're coaching their teams, or they're recruiting. Here
is a recruiting dead period opportunity, you know. I think
one of the biggest roars we saw was I think

(03:10):
it was Saturday night. We had they had this game
Hooks out, and it was like you know, you and
you had coaches from every level just just playing against
each other. It was it was just it was loud.
You had I mean, Moyer got in the chair and
played hooks jokingly said to his wife, it says, Mike,
guess that fun in thirty years. It was hilarious and

(03:30):
everybody was having a good time. And you know, you
had all coaches from all levels, men's and women's there.
It was a really good it's a real good, uh
you know, bonding moment. It's coming off of the leadership
Academy for a lot of these new coaches is a
chance for them to meet people and network because these
conventions are not just about rules. It's about networking. It's
becoming a better coach. It's learning from one another. And
like like wrestling technique, Uh, you know, a lot of

(03:52):
the best steal it and call it coaching. Well you
can do that too with with your networking and your fundraising.
Well they work that, that's what works there, we can
do it here. So a lot of tracks on that,
a lot of tracks in IL and of course rules
being what they are with Jim Hung the rules interpreter
in Micha McCormick, the national coordinator of officials. So that
was from where I said, I had a blast. It

(04:13):
was at TPC Sawgrass, which I was not going to
play because I don't have that kind of coin to play,
of course like that. Plus I'm a hacker, guys. Last
time I played golf, I played with our Saint Cloud
All Sports thing. I played with the volleyball coaches and
then our beverage people, and it was a scramble. They
didn't take one of my shots, not a single one
of my shots. And we did top Golf on Thursday.

(04:34):
And my nine year old actually had a higher score
in some of these games than I did, so I'm
about to give it up. First thing I ever bought
with my first full time paycheck from the NBCA was
a set of golf clubs. I still use that set
of golf clubs. My parting gift from USA Wrestling was
a nice leather Ashworth golf bag. The best part of
my golf game, guys, is the golf bag. So if

(04:56):
you ever want to try to try to play me
for money, don't. I'm not going to do it because
there's no chance. But always like I always like you
know your dressed, look you look good at the pro shop,
you look like you belong there. That's that's the end
of my game. I got the golf shoes, I got
the nice Jack Nicholas's shirt, I got the you know,
the Hagar golf shorts with the actual extra te pocket.
Well comes to golf. I look the part I just suck.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
It's a hard game. My sight clubs are actually in
my garage and they've been there since I moved, and
they have sawdust on them.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
Have to think about all the people that golf a
week in the country. Only one person's happy at the
end of the week, the guy that wins the PGA Tour.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah, that's it. I think Shane Sparks had the best,
the best thing. We were talking. He was down there
and says, you know, you know, Jay, it's the you
get up there, you play once or twice a year,
and you shank it and you're mad about it. Well,
of course you haven't practiced. Now, if you're the pro
and you shank it like that, yeah get mad. But
if you haven't played golf but two three times a
year and you get up there and you think you're

(05:59):
gonna hit it three hundred yards off the tee, come on,
come on anyway any way, So I've kind of stolen
all the wad asked a question, didn't even let you
do it. First thoughts about the convention from where you
guys sit start with you, Glenn.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
I really thought they did a good job on it.
It's such a small staff of the NWCA that runs
out for a lot of people. I really like Sawgrass
TBC Sawgrass. But I am happy it's going to be
in Baltimore next year because it's closer to where a
lot of the wrestling happens in this world. So maybe
more coaches can make it to Baltimore. So I'm supporting

(06:36):
their move to Baltimore. And it's right next to you
at the Hazards.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
So yeah, I think right down the street we can
go home. I like the panels and I like the breakouts.
And it was eye opening listening to the NCAA and
other people talk, and we got to talk to Kevin
Dresser about how Iowa State is approaching this and so

(07:03):
it was for the kind of information and Jason's like
you said, there were coaches from all different aspects of
the college game. Learned a lot just being there with
those people.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
All right, let's move to our show part two. And
I remember Jim June at the NCWA came up to
me at the after our board meeting and goes, hey,
that match that show how much of that did you
actually understand? And that's that's the one thing. We had
so many numbers, we threw so much and just just
be fair warning. I'm gonna think, Glenn, you've got even

(07:37):
more numbers for us today. So if you are numbers
of verse, duck and cover. But there's a lot of
content here. There's a lot of stuff to drill through.
So as always are reminder if you're driving, don't read
the pdf that a companies that on NWCA online or
mantle online in the show notes, do not read that
while driving or mowing your grass. You're gonna end up

(07:57):
with a really weird looking lawn. Thanks, lawn's been pretty
good here. I've done pretty good with the grass care
this year. Didn't do the true green this year, but
did it on my own pretty good. You gotta worry
about the dog spots thing, but that's another thing. But
there's a lot of numbers here, so advising and if
you're watching this on video, we've got it up here
on the screen if you are not. Again the accompaniment
with the show notes, the PDF is in that at

(08:19):
mattalk online and in WCA online. So Glenn, round two, ding, Ding,
what do we got round two.

Speaker 4 (08:28):
On a clear day, you can see College Athletics Part
two here. Okay, the it's a continuation. It's a three
part series. It's a continuation of what we did last month.
The first part, of course, was about the specific revenues,
expenses and profits for colleges. This one, we're going to

(08:49):
try to educate people on revshare, the house settlement, nil
and roster limits. Part three we're going to try to
wrap everything up and say what we need to do.
We have a in this episode or table of contents,
whatever you call it, I want to call it on
slide two there. Okay, the stuff we say all the time,

(09:15):
Matt's Stats Show is here to create a library of
statistical analysis for the NWCA. So more your approached me,
Jason and Kate and Kevin Hazard to do all this.
So this is what we're here to do to help
the NWCA out. Okay, the opinions expressed on this show
do not necessarily reflect any policies or opinions of the NWCA,

(09:40):
And all the times Gormley, Brian Hazard don't even agree
with everything. Okay. Matt's Stats is based on numbers and
stats and analyzation. It starts with facts, not opinions. Okay,
we do. Monthly we have an update on how many
NCAA AA and NCWA teams there are. Interesting thing here,

(10:04):
this is as of August ninth, this past year. You know,
last month there were seventy five NCAA Division three schools
that have a women's team. In twenty eleven twelve, there
were eighty seven men's D three wrestling teams. It's now
up to one hundred and thirty five. But this is

(10:25):
to show you, guys, exactly where women are. Like you
saw on the last one, there's so many Division two
stuff we did on that, but this shows you how
good of a growth the women is having and how
wonderful it is for the sport.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
All right, so we've been working on this for months.
Why have we had such a delay getting this put together?

Speaker 4 (10:51):
Okay? The first reason is the colleges and their fiscal
year on June thirtieth, so we had to delay. You
can't get the numbers, and of course a lot of
colleges run a little bit late, and then of course
this show was pushed back because of that, and also
Jason was over and covering under twenty Worlds, so we

(11:11):
couldn't you know, we couldn't get him on screen until
this date.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
So that's just eight hour time difference. Was that's not ideal,
and the internet in the room was just I mean,
for example, if you were going to do a live
stream with me in Bulgaria, I would have been in
the hotel lobby and probably not the quietest spot, and
after a long, fourteen hour work day, I would have
probably been wanting to strangle you guys. If we wanted

(11:36):
to do it from Bulgaria. Now we could have. We
could have, but I don't know if doing a show
at two o'clock in the morning is the best thing
for me anyway.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
Yesh, So doing a great job over there, so I'll
tell you what it was.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
It was kind of cool just to just interject that
real quick. Richard IMML had reached out to me at
USA Wrestling a couple months ago. Actually this was not
a surprise. I've written with them for Fargo the last
two summers, so you know, getting my writing chops back,
because that's really where I cut my teeth, was writing.
You know, I was doing the broadcasting and announcing the
entire time, but you know, working at a newspaper and

(12:10):
working through Internet and covering Fargo for so many years,
you know, bringing me back as far as the as
as you know, I always joked at the you know
they're bringing me out of writing retirement. Well they did
it twice this year. So getting getting to back in
the trenches. And what was really cool again is normally
when I work for these international events, I am I
am impartial, I am working for uww Yes, I'm an American,

(12:31):
and I will I will pump the fist underneath the table. Yeah,
you know, but this was part of Team USA, and
it was cool being part of the team. And then
just a side note again Kurt Crazier, for example, his
daughter Aubrey's going to Lehigh. I went to college with Kurt,
so it's something that's like, wow, that's one of those
old man feelings moments. I was like, ah, dude, I

(12:52):
went to college with you and your kids on the
U twenty World team. And then you know I turned
I turned forty six over there too, So I had
a birthday in Bulgaria, so it was that's I've gotten.
I've had Rio, Paris, Bulgaria, and South Africa are my
my four international birthdays, three of which had to do
with wrestling, but yeah, school to get to get back
and do the writing stuff again. And you know, so

(13:13):
much of the stuff I do now is behind the
scenes and then on the microphone in front of it,
not as much writing as I used to do. So
it was really cool. I appreciate the opportunity to get
back to do that, and then you know, being able
to like root for Team USA when I'm at these
things versus like trying to have to like keep it
under wraps because you know, you know, we've got an
international staff with UWW, you don't really want to go
over the top for one, and you know you can't.

(13:34):
I can actually wear USA wrestling gear and I have
to be like it's just a shirt. So anyway, back
back on track as far as that's a little insight
into our delay, so moving.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
Forward, Kevin, Okay, so that's why we have a delay.
But why are we calling this On a clear day
you can see college sports and also can we just
talk a little bit about the new topic for this episode?

Speaker 4 (13:59):
Sure, Kevin. There was a famous book that came out
in the seventies. On the clear day you could see
general motors. Okay, it was taken from a lot of
the famous John Deloorian. Okay, that's why the pictures from
the famous Back to the Future movie where they travel
and time and the Delaurian and it was basically say

(14:20):
like General Motors was the top company in sales every
year in America back then. It no longer is, and
it was so confusing and so big, and it reminded
me when I did all this research on what's going
on in college athletics. No one knows what the heck's
going on because it's so confusing. So that's why I
called it on the clear Day. You can see that. Okay,

(14:43):
episode forty six. Okay, we continue to take a business
approach using statistics of financial data. College sports seems to
be in the glory years, but we need to look
under the hood. Just like you thought General Motors was
in their glory years. What you need to look under
the hood, we do. We're going to look at how

(15:03):
revenue sharing nil roster sized caps changed the collegiate landscape
before our eyes, and specifically what it does for our
famous sport, college wrestling.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Hey, I recognize that.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
All right, So so this is a continuation of last show.
So can we just get a quick recap to lead
into this this episode.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
By the way, that's the U twenty World Championship trophy
for men's freestyle. That was that was my birthday. Pressure.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
Yeah, anybody who's not seeing the screen, there's a picture
of Jason Overn Bulgaria holding America's team trophy up there.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah, big trophy.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Now they're going to do that like the Stanley Cup
where they each kid can take it home and parade
it around the town.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
That's a sore subject because the Stanley Cup was in
Sane Cloud the monday I got back. I couldn't make
it up there and to take my picture with the cop.
So don't bring up the don't bring up the cup anymore.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
Kenny, anyway, Kevin, to answer your question, Episode forty five,
which was part one of this series, addressed the revenues,
expenses and profits or most cases losses across NCAA Division
One athletic departments. Okay, the famous the probably the most

(16:29):
famous sports poem ever, Casey at the bat, the first
lines of it, the outlook wasn't brilliant. Okay, And this
is what I'm bringing into because the outlook isn't brilliantaire
for college sports guys, they lost over one million dollars
a year before we got nil and REV sharing on
the table. Now it's a different subject, but totally the

(16:53):
methodology of this show, Guys, we take it from a
CPA named Pat you go work who's used to dealing
with nonprofits, which of course colleges are. He was a
sumer cum Loudy at Washington State, so we got a
lot of data from him, and we also got a
lot of the data from the Night New House Foundation,

(17:17):
which really is a big help for college athletics. Okay,
next light.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
All right, so part of this is what we're talking
about is Grant House versus NCUBA settlement. Again, first time
I saw that I saw House versus NCUBA, I thought
it was the House of Representatives versus NCAA. What is
the House versus NCUBA settlement and what does it mean
to college sports?

Speaker 4 (17:48):
Okay, to start on your first question, Grant House is
a swimmer's name that used to swim at Arizona State.
Him and a few other people. The other name person
of Sedona Prince, who was a women's basketball player at
Texas Oregon in Texas Christian Okay, they bought a class
action lawsuit against the NCUBLEA and the five Collegiate Athletic Conferences,

(18:13):
in which the NCAA agreed to allow its members institutions
to distribute funds to Division I athletes who have played
since twenty sixteen. That is what you might call nil name,
image of lateness, part of it, okay. On March twenty third,
twenty twenty four, the NCAA voted to the settle the

(18:36):
lawsuit for two point seven five billion, You heard that right,
and also agreeing to a revenue sharing model. Revenue sharing
and NIL are two separate ways for the athletes to
get paid, okay. So as a part of the house settlement,

(19:00):
schools will be allowed to share their athletic department revenues
with their varsity athletes beginning this year. In other words,
this past weekend was Week one of college football and
women's soccer and all these other sports are going on. Okay,
these athletes can get part of the revenue. But it's
a lot more complicated than it just sounds. Okay. Right now,

(19:23):
the cap is twenty point five million per year per team.
The annual cap will increase to about thirty two million
over the next ten years. It'll be kind of a Cola.
When I say Cola, I don't mean the famous soft drink.
I mean cost of living adjustment. Okay.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
One thing also to consider, it's not the schools can
go up to twenty point five currently. It's not like
every school gets twenty point if they want. If they've
opted in and they want to pay up to that much,
that's their limit. It's like, but if they're they opt
in and they only want to give you know, if
they're say they're non football and they want to give
their basketball team two million dollars and call it a day,

(20:04):
that's that's where they can go. So it's not like
every school, oh cool, we've got to We've got we
can pay our guys twenty million. Oh wait, we have
to find come up with twenty more million. Two that's used.
That's gonna be the bigger problem, as we're gonna explore later.

Speaker 4 (20:17):
Yes, okay, So, as Jason just said there, the House
Settlement will allow athletic departments to add scholarships over their
historic limits if they so choose. The money funding these
scholarships would come out of the twenty point five million
pool annually up to a two and a half million
dollar cap. There Okay, that was dedicated to rev sharing.

(20:41):
The limit on additional scholarships count as part of the
rev share goes up to two point five. That means
the school can give more than that and it will
not be counted against the revshare. Okay, something new that
we're discovering here. The Collegiate College Sports Commission is a

(21:01):
new layer of mental management. They must be paid somehow, guys. Right,
It's a new independent enforcement agency. It has been established
to oversee compliance to the rules governing the annual revshare cap,
roster limits, and third party and IL payments. Just what

(21:22):
we need, even more people making money by diving into
the money that should be headed to athletes. Okay, revshare.
I can't say this loud enough and often enough, guys.
Revshare short for revenue sharing is now an expense for colleges.

(21:46):
Every revshare payment is a new expense for college athletic departments.
We learned in part one of the series that the
vast majority of these schools are already financially strapped and
do not huge amounts of reserves sitting around. So one
man's paycheck is another man's burden, One man's revenue is

(22:08):
another man's expense for every debit there is a credit Guys,
Can I.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
Ask a quick question, there is this on top of
scholarships or does this include existing scholarships?

Speaker 4 (22:21):
This this is on top of existing scholarships. Okay, you
can now pay the athletes up to twenty point five million. Okay,
the school we'll get into this specifics to that. But
the new scholarships will be two point five million. That Kevin.

(22:42):
But if you want to add up to one hundred
and five in football and thirty in wrestling, you're past
that two point five number. Okay. The school's still got
to come up with the money. Okay. So the twenty
point five million, Kevin is a big expense to these
colleges that cannot afford it in most cases. Okay.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Also, one thing I want to bring up to for
those of you on social let me pull up the
account real quick, just so I don't you know, invert
the name. There's an account out there on X and
I follow it. It's a little bit snarky. It's not
all directly related, but okay, here it is. It's in
at nil not l I obviously name image and likeness,

(23:30):
not national letter of intent. That is an account that
will follow this type of news that follows drops programs
and follows ADS programs, so it's right in the wheelhouse
of this show, but also has a little bit of
a snark. It goes with some of the old probation
things like hey, on this day, here's this NCAA violation.
So it's very informative with a little bit of snark
behind it. One thing I've found it also interesting, and

(23:51):
they're this account who I don't know who runs it,
will put out this school is raising tuition by three
and a half percent. Related they're now paying their athletes
twenty million dollars more a year. Huh not, Obviously they're
not related, is the tongue in cheek part. So I
would recommend giving that a follow, just more or less.

(24:11):
I mean, it's entertaining and it is informative, so I
follow it because sometimes they'll catch them some drops that uh,
that I pay attention to, that I've that I missed
because the travel and whatnot. But again I've I've been
tracking the drops in the revenue share of the house
era as I call I call it, getting housed. I've
been keeping that on track, just like I did with
all the COVID drops. So that's that's an interesting account.

(24:32):
Once again, at nil not in l I. That's all
one word. So that's that's that's a worthy follow to
get some also some some snark behind the scenes facts
about this stuff too.

Speaker 4 (24:44):
Thank you, Jason. Okay, where does the twenty point five
million dollar cap fun? It is twenty two percent of
the revshare of the average past couple of years for
the power four hour Power five what everywhere to call
it COF for instance. Okay, it will increase over the
next ten years. Okay, you do not the Power five

(25:10):
have to spend that much, but the other schools do not. Okay,
you cannot go over twenty point five, but smaller schools
can spend less than that.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
Right now, So the Power five, all the Power five
schools have to spend that much money on their athletes.
Is that what you just?

Speaker 4 (25:32):
They have to opt into this, Kevin, and they can
get up to twenty twelve. They could spend up to
twenty point five million, but they have to opt in. Okay,
where does the twenty two percent of Power five? Why
did they use that number? I've been researching this topic
for two months. I have no idea where they came

(25:52):
up with it, Okay, So if anyone wants asked me,
I don't know. But if anyone does know, I'd love
to know where they came up for twenty two.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
I'm sure it works nicely into the cleverly rigged accounting practices.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
Surely, I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Sure there's a reason for that.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
Yeah, all right, So once again, you see it's twenty five.
Twenty point five is a cap for all schools. This
is not good for wrestling or other Olympic sports. We're
better off a wrestling team being a school that opted out, okay,
because that money is going to go somewhere, guys, and

(26:32):
the schools have to look for money on how to
afford this. Now, if you remember from episode forty five,
the only schools you can get information from on in
Nancy DOAA is public schools. Private schools you cannot get.

(26:52):
In other words, this weekend, two famous private schools played
a great game of football Notre Dame. In my me
of Florida, we have no idea what their income statements
are because they don't release them. So for the fifty
six public Power five schools, the times twenty point five million, guys,

(27:16):
that is one point one four eight billion dollars. Okay,
you add that to their loss of one hundred and
three million dollars last year. Okay, the one hundred and
three millions arounding our are now, guys, they need to
come up with over one point one billion. Okay. Then

(27:39):
you add the private yeah yeah. Then you add the
private schools Notre Dame, Miami of Florida, USC, the one
out west. Okay, they got to come up with that
money too. So this number is actually much bigger than that.
All right, Now, a quick estimate here on how the

(28:03):
revenue share might play out. Okay, I wanted to find
what revenue share is. What the revenue and revenue share
is in this Okay, But slide twenty eight you can
see that this is different from your total revenues as

(28:23):
an athletic department guys. Okay, the athletic department revenues includes events, ticketing,
admission fees, game guarantees, TV media licensing, advertisement sponsorship loyalties
for Bowl games. Revenue does not include director indirect school support.

(28:48):
As we learned about the athletic fee, student fees, or
contributions to the athletic department, Like if you know somebody
donates a big amout out of money to a school
that's not included in on it. Okay, so the revenues
from these schools that are applicable to revenue share is

(29:13):
not your total revenue. So you guys know, okay, Slide
twenty nine, you can see it shows the revenues per
school on this on the rev share definition of revenue
twenty two percent of the revenue and then the estimated
revenue share you can see from the big boys, the SEC,

(29:35):
the Big ten, ACC, and the Big twelve that'll be
twenty point five million. About where are schools in the
Conference USA twenty two percent of their revenue is a
little over one and a half million dollars. Okay, so
those schools are not going to go and spend twenty
point five because they can't find the money that they have.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Now, now, Glenn, I got one question. So in terms
of we talk again, revenue is not profit. What's this
look like from a profit and loss dave kind of perspective? Like,
these aren't profits? These are these are you know, there's
this doesn't take innoky yet. I know you're gonna get
to the expenses. So I'm wondering where the profit line comes.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
In well, Jason, good question. I mean the profit line
for the Power five schools combined last show that we
showed was negative one hundred and three million for the
public schools.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (30:28):
So now you're adding one point one plus billion to
that has an expense. So we're going to get to
that in the second year. So all schools can't afford this, guys, okay,
So get this out of your heads that they're raking
in money handover fifths and they can afford this. They
can't even the schools like the defending college football champion,

(30:52):
the Ohio State, Okay, had one of the marquee games
this weekend against Texas. These schools can't afford it without
changing something. And you don't get any bigger football and
bigger athletic departments than those places. So you'll see online
slide thirty one. Excuse me, okay, this is an old
school NBA thing. You do a break even, okay, And

(31:17):
the top row shows you the Power five schools in
twenty three, twenty four. This isn't millions, guys, okay. So
that nine one hundred and ten is in millions, So
that's nine point one billion, okay, And then their expenses
are nine point two billion. Now when you add revshare

(31:37):
to that, their profit is negative one point two five billion.
So in order to break even, they have to either
raise revenue by that much, decreased expenses, or a hybrid
of the a combination there. Okay, So they'd have to
increase revenue almost fourteen percent or dec increase revenue almost

(32:01):
thirteen percent. We saw on episode forty five. Guys, they
cannot increase this revenue this much. Okay, So there are
gonna be some cuts in the athletic department, whether it
be your fourteenth assistant athletic director or another compliance director.

(32:22):
I never understood why William Mary had a compliance director staff.
If in order to getting to will you married, you
got to be a good student. Okay. So, guys, this
break even going back, way way long ago, before electricity,
when I was in business school. Okay, going back to

(32:42):
those break even things. Okay, some drastic changes are going
to have to be made. Okay, this is the way
of the world. So we got to wake up, guys
and realize there's drastic changes coming. Okay. One of the
famous old football coaches of William Mary, Lou Holtz. Okay, started.

(33:07):
That was his first head coaching job. Then he went
on to brighter pastures.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
He did pretty He did pretty good for himself, I believe,
yes he did. Yeah. A little known fact was a
tribe assistant.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
Yeah. Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel
is an oncoming train was one of lou Holtz's famous quotes.
And lou Holtz has also known that William Mary for
taking the car they bought him as head coach and
driving to den See State to take the job there. Okay,
I'm afraid guys that the light at the oncoming tunnel

(33:39):
right now and a lot of non revenue sports is
a train coming the other way. And by the way,
lou Holtz was the head football coach of William Mary
when Kevin Housert was wrestling there. Okay, just because we
believe something is fair does not I mean a judge

(34:01):
found a financial, working solution.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Oh, a man to legal not necessarily being rational in
some of these cases. Okay, continue Glenn, Yes.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Okay, think Solomon, Yep.

Speaker 4 (34:19):
It's hard to imagine this judgment will help the long term,
long term sustainability of college sports. Now that judge can
go to cocktail parties and say what she's done for
people and leave you a lot of stuff out of you,
out of her conversation. Okay. Interestingly enough, as you can

(34:41):
see on slide thirty five, the judge seems to be
way more concerned with the attorney's pay. It could be
up to seven hundred and seventy million dollars. Then she
is the sustainability of college athletics. On July eleven this summer,

(35:02):
Federal Judge Claudia Wilkins awarded the lawyers for the plaintiffs
and the Greg House versus NCAA settlement more than five
hundred and twenty million dollars for their services, and they
can petition for an additional two hundred and fifty million
dollars total in the next ten years. I'm sure all

(35:23):
those law firms are going to petition for their money.
So these lawyers, yep, and more. These lawyers are going
to get over seven hundred and seventy million. That is
about twenty seven percent of the nil settlement. So if
these athletes really deserved it, do the lawyers really deserve

(35:45):
that much? Are we really out for the athletes? Okay, guys,
this is a problem, all right. Now, a school can
opt in or opt out, and we got to picture
of the famous closs gosh, should I stay or should
I go? Now? So, each year, by March third, by

(36:06):
March first, a school must decide whether they're in or out.
The Power five schools are in every year, and of
all the Group five schools opted in except for the
three Service academies, got an Air Force add On Academy.
Here's todd On today. They cannot opt in the three

(36:30):
service academies due to their rules.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Okay, you know it's a misheard lyric too. It's not
cash bar, but let's just play it a little bit.
The clash also had rocked the cash by well, in
this case, it's a cash bar, and it definitely seems
like it's being rocked quite a bit. So Dad jokes aside.
I just I need to just take a moment here,

(36:55):
because all this is just so stressful when you sit
there and know that this is essentially because of two sports,
and it's just one of those things that the rant incoming.
I'll keep it, I'll keep it short, just to know
that you know all the you know, I lived with
the athletes in college for various sports. It wasn't just
a wrestling program. We you know, you know, I had

(37:17):
a woman on the sailing team my last year. So
it was like we had the athletes that don't they
bring in the school some revenue based on them being there.
They have the sports of the walk ons and such,
and you know, you know, you get a roster of forty,
you've got nine scholars. Well, that money's all going to school,
as I've touched on earlier. But to sit there and
be like, well, well the sport of the front porch

(37:38):
of the university, that that's the line that drives me
nuts because right now some of these front porches are
being held up by a couple cinderblocks and they're about
to knock out kill fourteen dogs living underneath them. It's
what's about to happen. To borrow at Jeff Foxworthy line
from you know, maybe all rocky top there. I'll get
smoky out of there quickly. It's just the athletes that
need the money don't get the money. Yeah, they're there's

(38:00):
a small portion of athletes that bring it. The Johnny
Manziel's of the world when he was at A and
M not being able to sell his uniform a jersey
for example, in the school making that's what i's that's again,
that's what NIL was created for it. And then wrestling
camps like to be able to put a wrestling camp like, oh,
so and so from the University of Minnesota can work
the j Rob camp, not University of Minnesota staff, so

(38:22):
you can promote, you know, the athletes in our sports.
In these non revenue sports, the college athletes are the
ones that move the needle once they move to the
senior level. Unless they're Jordan Burrows or a Kyle Dake,
they're not moving the needle with the younger ra it's
the college kids that are doing it. And the ones
that need to get paid aren't getting paid, and the
ones that you know, it's just it. It drives me to, oh, well,

(38:43):
we don't wreak any revenue. Well that's the school's fault
from again making these calling these sports non revenue when
they don't do crap and I'm not talking about accounting,
they don't do crap to actually, oh, I don't know,
have the fifteen members support team to promote every sport.
So they just put their money into two baskets, hopefully
thinking that that's going to raise the you know, rise
the money and fill the coffers when it's absolutely not.

(39:05):
You're you're making forty million dollars to spend forty million
dollars on two sports. So rant over, I know, preaching
to the choir. So sorry, that just a noisy rap
out of me.

Speaker 4 (39:15):
No probab all. On slide thirty seven, guys, you can
see these are the men's NCAA Division one wrestling teams
that opted out. When I say wrestling teams, the school
opted out. Either opt in or you opt out for
the whole school. Okay, So there's twenty four wrestling schools
that opted out. And this does include the five schools

(39:39):
that are not Division one in any sport except for wrestling, Bluesburg, Claring, Edinburgh,
the Haven in FNL.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Also of note, and again bringing in bringing up the
hockey side of things, Sat Cloud State, for example, Division
two sports D one men's ice hockey opted in for hockey.
They can opt in per sport. Now the limit. They're
not going to spend twenty million dollars on that, for example.
But those there's a bunch of schools that have that.
Colorado College for example, ri So just on the hockey side,

(40:08):
so it's not just you know, the option does exist
for those particular schools to opt in, but they it
looks like according to your research, Glenn, they did not
on the wrestling side.

Speaker 4 (40:18):
Correct, and like Hopkins opted in for lacrosse right, division
three and everything but lacrosse. Okay, Now eighty five percent
of all NCAA Division one members opted in. Seventy percent
of the nc DOUBLEA Division one wrestling schools opted in,

(40:39):
so we have a lower percentage of opting in and
wrestling than overall. That actually makes me happy, guys, okay,
because you have a better chance if the school opts out. Okay.
Slide thirty nine breaks down how many wrestling teams are
in the Power five group of five fcs no football,
non division one, and then how what percent of all

(41:01):
the Division one teams are not. And you can see
from this that the lower the school is being a
non division one, the more likely they are to opt
out or fcs where group of five at Power five
all opted in except for the three academies which were
not allowed to opt in. Okay. Now, the smaller school,

(41:28):
the more likely to opt out, the larger more likely
to opt in. The non fbs opt out. Average enrollment
was six thousand. The FCS non football opt in with
seventy eight hundred enrollment. So basically, the bigger the school,
the more likely they are to be in.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
Okay, so now we know that they they're going to
give up to twenty point five million. Who's getting that
money and who decides who gets the money, and who
decides what amount go to what sports and decides which
athletes on each of those teams get the money.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Yeah, there was my rant.

Speaker 4 (42:15):
Okay, try to answer the rant. Okay, the schools decide
number one, if they opt in or out. If they
opt in, they're gonna decide how much to pay, Like
the big boys will be spending twenty point five Okay,
the smaller schools won't get up that high. Then they
decide which sports to give Revshare money too. Then they

(42:39):
decide what percentage of the rev share each sport. Guess
this is highlighted on the screen, and I'm gonna say
it twice. Most sports do not get any rev Share money.
Repeat it, most sports do not get any rev Share money. Football,

(43:03):
men's basketball, and women's basketball will usually get ninety at
least ninety percent of the red share and as much
as ninety five.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
Okay, don't forget the Arthur Bryants of the world.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
They're gonna want a piece of that pie. Thank you,
Kevin Jason. I was just about to say that on
the screen Title nine lawyers won a piece of this. Okay,
I gave you a little pie. Fear if some people
can see things better. The green part is a ninety
five percent going to football in the two basketballs. The

(43:38):
red part is going to all the other sports. Okay,
and guys, if football is getting some and men's basketball
on one hand and women's basketball on the other hand,
most likely the next sport to get something is going
to be a female sport.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
And it also it also varies too because so again
up here Minnesota has opted in for men's ice men's
women's ice hockey, So just keep that, you know. It's
also regional regionalized too. So one thing to consider it's
it's not just gonna be the standard usually these standard
three across the board. And then from there, uh yeah,
you're looking at it, of course, yes, Glenn. The Title

(44:17):
nine discussion there there are the Title nine thing. They're
trying to make this a title line situation where it's like,
you know, okay, you've given this much the football, men's basketball, well,
the women's sports need to match, which gets us into
the situation that Safe Harbor did in the nineties. So
that's something to definitely keep an eye on and what's
going to happen there.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
And it's just like there was already a lawsuit before this.
There's several settled and on the on the table, there
was already a law lawsuit saying exactly that, Jason.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah, And what I don't understand, let's go back a
couple of slides too, is like schools needed to decide
by March first, the settlement was was was it even
finished by March? I don't think it even was. I
think it was gonna be done in April.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
Jason the future, ye like.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Said to decide this year. Oh, every year they got it. Okay,
So this was the first year. Okay, So I misinterpreted
that part of it, all right. Anyway, moving away from
the slice of pizza, that's the give it to charity
when we win the powerball.

Speaker 4 (45:14):
Yeah, step forward Okay. So uh so when we go
to slide forty four here, after the school decides which
sports to give what amount revshare to get the head
coaches decide this. Okay, So clearly in a football the
quarterback might be getting more than the deep snapper. Okay,

(45:35):
so that's just up to each coach. And then of
course you're going to get some people bitching and moaning,
like you're that quarterback through an interception at the end
of the game, why are we giving him any money?
You're gonna have all that crap?

Speaker 2 (45:48):
Okay, oh my, my apologies to Arch Manning's d MS
this morning. Anyway, moving forward, Okay, one thing I also
heard Glenn to talk about this as I was listening
to some of the college football podcasts, because I, as
much as I say it, I love college football, but
I hate college football for these situations right here is

(46:10):
some schools are even going, okay, we're they're tearing it
based on position players or skill positions. And then some
schools like, no, we're giving everybody the same amount. So
there's there's a strategy involved. And I've heard where, you know,
some schools are rethinking they're recruiting. It's like, okay, we're
gonna have this. This percentage is going to be on
retaining our athletes. This percentage is going to be on

(46:30):
high schol recruiting. And then this percentage is going to
be on portal and if you're successful in one, if
you can be successful all three, you've got a blueprint
to you know, and this can apply to all sports.
And then so if you're struggling with one, you're gonna
have to rely to heavily on the other, which could
affect another. So it's they've just added just so many
more complicated pieces to this puzzle.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
And that's and that's something that's going to change, you know,
every year. That's going to change is they get more
data and they figure you're out a better way to
do it the percentages.

Speaker 4 (47:03):
Yeah, and guys, as far as what you can see,
it's slide forty five. Here, this is a box here,
okay where it has the percentage of rev share a
sport might get going up and down, okay, and then
on the x axis it says the revenue share twenty
point five million, ten million, five million, one million. Okay.

(47:24):
I color coded this so people can forget about the
purple and really the blue for wrestling. Okay, Wrestling is
going to live in that red box and maybe if
we're lucky in the yellow box, okay, So that will mean,
if a wrestling team gets two hundred thousand dollars of

(47:46):
the REV share, they're pretty damn fortunate, guyslutely Okay, they're
pretty fortunate. So then I broke it down for you
on slide forty six, or this shows you if it's
equally divided among the thirty wrestlers what Jason has talked

(48:08):
about some scores equally dividing it. So that means if
we get that one percent of twenty point five million,
each of the thirty wrestlers will get a little under
seven thousand. Okay, if we just give it to the
ten starting wrestlers, that wrestler we get twenty twenty thousand,
five hundred dollars, that would be the exception to this, guys. Okay,

(48:33):
that is not something that's going to happen. So when
you see these arch Manning andil deals okay, and Carson
Beck from Miamia, Florida reportedly supposingly around four million for Beck, Okay,
that's not happening in our world. And that's different than revshare. Okay,
So what sounds really good might not be really good

(48:58):
for college athletics. Okay, wrestling's long term sustainability affects all
college wrestlers. Rev share only a very small number. Okay,
so in slide forty eight you can see the revshare

(49:18):
part of the house settlement is designed primarily for the
sports and their athletes that bring in the revenue. Part
of the rev share, I believe on match stats, our
main concern should be on solidifying long term sustainability of
college wrestling, especially will rarely since we were rarely being

(49:43):
the rev share game. Guys, we're not going to play
in these reindeer.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Games, right, and it's it's we've you know, we're not
the only ones to preach us. And what we also
have to find a way financially is endow the programs
and get them in a situation where you can't take
that endowment a way like they did at Notre Dame
back in the nineties and put it to the general fund.
So you've got to be very very smart with how
it is. But then again, you've also say you've got
the rest of person and they also want they also

(50:08):
want to contribute. They they like going to football games
on Saturday, so they're trying. I mean, it's just like
fighting there. You've all, you've all, this has done from
an outsider's perspective is sit there, and you've created a
bigger problem. You've you've basically made the under the table
booster stuff legal now, and then you've also gotten the athletes.

Speaker 3 (50:26):
Now.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
It's a cast system. It always was a cast system
in college sports, where some set of athletes were treated better,
whether or not they actually contributed to their sport or not.
Just being on the team gave them better access to
certain things such as again tutoring, scheduling classes, access to
the weight room. There's all those little things that simply
being on the roster, being the one hundred and fifteenth

(50:47):
guy on the team gets you higher than the best
athlete from another sport, which drives me nuts because the
value of what you're going to carry carry carry the
scout team's books, I don't know, I just the the
you just drives me nuts. Anyway, It's another another mini
rant there, but again to my initial point, you're gonna
get the same people. They're gonna be fighting over the money,

(51:07):
the same people. And then on the wrestling side, we've
got the RT seeks the conundrum which is like, Okay,
are you giving money to the program or are you
giving money the RTC because it's good for recruiting it.
There's so many you know, there's only so much money
from us. And guess what, nobody's going to pay for
us unless we pay for us. That's what's going to

(51:27):
have to happen. It's all. It's all pay for play
these days. Yeah, the players are getting paid for play.
You try to not call it what it is. But
if we want our sports to survive, we have to
pay for it. And we can't just sit there and
but you know, moan about oh well basketball, well, you
know what, we're not like them. We need to be
We need to preserve our sport. And that's that should
have happened yesterday. It should have happened the day before that.

(51:48):
And be what is it? Mike says, the next best
time to know your program, if not today, is tomorrow.
So we just we can't wait.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Like Penn just got that thirty million dollar gift.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Yeah, and they're a non scholarship. That's an IVY. I
would figure that's one of the one of I can't
say every sports safe because we've seen Princeton and Brown
have their programs on the blocks within recent memory. But
I mean, that's okay, there you go. Penn Wrestling probably
not going anywhere. David Patrick just took that up next, Allent,

(52:20):
all right, yeah, Glenn's like all right, jbby your ants.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
All right, So now NIL and the house settlement. How
does the NIL? Then we just talked about rev share,
So what is the NIL and how does it figure in?
And is it in addition to the rev share?

Speaker 4 (52:39):
Yes, Kevin, very good question. Nil is separate from rev share.
It's another way for athletes to get paid. So technically,
you know, pretty much every quarterback you're going to see
on Saturday afternoons is getting an NIL deal and a
rev rev share deal, the two separate deals, ay're getting? Okay?

(53:03):
The NIL is coming from a third party. Okay, somebody
from the outside, like a donor, is giving money to
a collective that's then distribute distributing money to the players
on the teams. Okay. With this, Kevin comes a group

(53:26):
to supervise this, the College Sports Commission that I mentioned earlier. Okay,
they want to know every single NIL deal over six
hundred dollars. All right.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
Now, it's like taxes, you don't file unless it's over
six hundred dollars. How many times I've been paid five
hundred and ninety nine dollars in cash. Yep, Okay, not enough.

Speaker 4 (53:52):
It's it's it's great that college athletes can get an
IL deals guy, Okay, but the money must come from somewhere. Okay.
This is most likely coming from somebody who's donating money
to the college. Now they're donating it specifically to go
to a certain person. So the college is going to

(54:14):
lose revenues, guys. You know, just the money just doesn't
grow on trees.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Yeah, at the point we're gonna be there, the donors
of these sports that they're gonna be fighting over the
same pool of money that was once going to the
general fund is now going to Arch Manning's you know,
Chevy Silverado.

Speaker 4 (54:31):
Yeah. Okay. So the NCAA, you can see, it's slide
fifty two, is paying the almost two point eight billion
dollar an aisle settlement. Here's how they're doing this. They
paid one point one billion of that two point eight
billion in the reserve funds. How the heck did they

(54:54):
have a reserve fund with one point one billion in
I don't know. Okay. The remaining one point sixty sixty
five billion will be paid via reducing the amount of
money the NCUBA pays the respective colleges. Okay, so the

(55:15):
colleges might say, we're not paying this money. Yeah you are.
Money's fungible. The NCAA is not paying it to you.
They're giving it to the to the to the past athletes. Okay.
The lawyers are getting their seven hundred and seventy million
from somewhere, guys, and that's where it's coming from now.

(55:39):
Chart Slide fifty three has the chart which basically breaks
down the how much fewer dollars a Power five Conference
school or all other NCUBA schools are getting that they're
not getting from the NCUBA. The Power Fives are about
nine hundred and sixty four one thousand, and all the

(56:01):
other Division I schools are three hundred and forty thousand.
I'll put in perspective, guys, that's how much money will
you Mary spent on funding the wrestling team for ten
years at Willeman Mary. Okay, Now we've seen inflation, it
all go up. Okay, so you're not counting apples and

(56:22):
apples there, But that's still a big amount of money, guys,
that's being taken from that school. The school's got to
go outside and raise that money somehow, and they're probably
already tapped out of donors.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Yeah, they're raising tuition.

Speaker 4 (56:39):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
I mean it's it's obvious. It's obvious.

Speaker 4 (56:45):
Now the College Sports Commission in Deloitte, in case you
guys don't know, Deloitte, it's a huge business one hundred
and twenty six locations in the United States or.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
The Big the Big five, the Big four accounting firms.
I know this was my wife. My wife briefly worked
for Deloitt for about a year and a half when
we were get when we it was.

Speaker 4 (57:05):
The Big eight, but I was it undergrad. Now it's down.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
So it's what KPMG. Let's see KPMG are whatever it
was bearing point for a minute, and then I think it
went back to KPMG, Price, Waterhouse, Cooper's, Deloitte. What am
I missing? My wife would know this off the top.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
Rick.

Speaker 4 (57:22):
I haven't been in business school so long. I can't
even remember all of them anymore.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Uh by Centure is that the other one? I think
that I think that was that's it? Yeah, I think
so wow, And you know if I got he if
you you you I'll have to play this back for
the wife. Did I get these all?

Speaker 3 (57:36):
Right?

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Did I get these right? I write that time stamp
out on the show.

Speaker 4 (57:41):
Okay, So, guys, essentially, Deloitte's a bunch of consultants, and
there's an old NBA joke. A consultant is a guy
that knows thirty positions and no women. Okay. So Deloit's
going to inspect an nil deal over six hundred dollars.
With the one hundred and twenty six US locations of Deloitte,

(58:02):
none are in the state of Mississippi, so they probably
don't have many people skilled at the fair market value
of an ad in Starkville, Mississippi where hail state. You
guys know what Dississippi State is located. Okay, So drives
me nuts that you have to get disapproved.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Well before Kevin's question here, like I think it was
some of the questions like the value. Okay, what do
they know what the value of a college like college
wrestling is they I'm gonna say no, because what's what
what I think Sebastian Rivera is. Also, he's got a
lawsuit in here too, one of the ones that the

(58:45):
individual lawsuits like the value of him, Like, you're telling
me that I think I think it's him that's like
or let's just let's just create a wrestler out of
thin air. So like wrestler A, Uh, okay, your your
your value is one thousand dollars. Well, no, because if
you've got one hundred thousand followers on so these wrestlers
can go viral over four years, and they're they're demand

(59:05):
within our own community is pretty big. So again it's fluid,
you know what. You know, our college athletes are our stars,
so you know they're I mean, I think remember even
twenty years ago, the biggest threads on the message boards
were about Steve Maco. Uh you know how many how
many hypothetical matchups did Kyle Dake loose to David Taylor
on the message boards when they were in school. So

(59:28):
like the college stars, that's where the money can be
made from wrestling, and to sign it like as a
nod to look at as a non revenue sport, well,
your your revenues aren't this. No, the star power in
college wrestling can be star power that can be valuable
from an from an nil standpoint. So that's my concern
is they're they're going to undersell, like you to your

(59:48):
point about Starkfield ads. Like the ads in Starkfield on Saturdays,
they're a lot more valuable than they are on Wednesdays.
But then again, how well do you how well is
that softball player gonna draw with that local community within
that state? Eight for example, like a college base like
these college softball let's use the women for an example.
There are huge stars on the college softball in in
in Oklahoma, which again, where's your you know your college

(01:00:11):
football moves to kneel in Oklahoma? College softball's won a
bunch of national titles? Is the value of a college
softball an il deal? Again? And Norman is going to
be a lot bigger than it will be in San
Luis Obispo. So you know you throw that out there.
I'm off the time my head. I think cal Poly
might have a softball team, but just again, you can't.

(01:00:31):
It's it's hard to apply logic in a in a
in a system that's fair and equally. You can't just
put one blanket number on a sport. It just doesn't work.
Like Iowa City guys are gonna draw in state college
will draw a lot better than Booise Creek, North Carolina.

Speaker 4 (01:00:46):
Yeah, Jason, I personally think, you know, fair market values
which somebody wants to pay for it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
No good, Well, and you know what you're saying is
we have a court case that has just put these
really a real structure in there is it's impossible to
make the structure right. But let's move on. We talked
about rev share and we've talked about nil and then

(01:01:15):
we have really the third leg of this, and it's
the roster side. If a school opts into the house settlement,
does that require them to adhere to a new roster size?

Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
Yes, Kevin, it does. And if a school opts in,
that means all the sports they have must adhere to
the new roster size, like for example, Oklahoma opted in,
but the wrestlers are not getting any revshare money. Okay
at Oklahoma they still have to beat with the new
roster size. So with the house settlement comes roster size limitations. Now,

(01:01:53):
the roster caps were supposed to be determined for past
year's roster sizes, and as you guys might have seen before,
pass shows, match stats does a lot of dives into
roster sizes. And of course you know last year was
the most twenty twenty four was the most ever wrestlers
eighty eight one in the NCUBLEA. So what happens here

(01:02:20):
On this chart you will see the mean of the
roster size across the men's sports wrestling is thirty four
point eight. This is NCAA Division one only. Guys, the
new roster cap from the house was basically drawn out
of the thin air. They said, it's reported roster size. Well,

(01:02:45):
they give numbers where. I have no idea where they
got these numbers, because I went back to all the
NCUBA charts. Okay, it's not there.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
It's rigg accounting practices.

Speaker 4 (01:03:01):
My guest as to what happened is some lawyer pushed
us through. The other lawyer never checked the numbers. They
never had a stats guy there raising his hands saying
this is a bunch of crack. Okay, So they are
reporting that the roster sizes were twenty nine point four

(01:03:22):
in wrestling Division one. It's not. It's thirty four point eight. Okay.
Either they're lying or the NCAA has been lying in
all these sports for the past ten fifteen years. Okay.
The last time the wrestling Division one had that small
of a roster size was two thousand and one. Two
thousand and two. So not impressed with how this was

(01:03:49):
shoved down our throat and passed. But what this means,
guys is I'll go back to another accounty termed life.
Fo last in first out, fight foe first in, first out.
It's about use for inventory and filling out your tax forms.
This is gigo garbage in, garbage out, okay, And shame

(01:04:15):
on the people for not asking where they got these numbers.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
This is also akin to another one, Glenn. They're trying
to make chicken salad here.

Speaker 4 (01:04:22):
Yeah, I had a chicken crub.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
Yeah yeah, well here, you know, we talked. We talked
at the convention. We talked to Kevin Dresser and he
had over thirty on his and of course he's PARA
five so he had to opt in, and so we
asked him. He said, what happened? He said, I had
to find places, so he took He actually found places,

(01:04:45):
but he had kids that would just want to be
part of a team. Can no longer be part of
a college team. And he found in places at other schools,
and he said, in what you also have to consider,
and Glenn, you said it earlier, Jason, did this means
they didn't get the they didn't get the get in
line early for classes. They didn't get the get in lined.

(01:05:06):
You know, they didn't get meals, they didn't get all
that all taken away from them for for what, for
really no reason.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Yeah, and here's another thing that drives me nuts too.
It's from the non it's from the sports fans that
are not in our world, the fans that only care
about college football and hospital. Well, you can go somewhere
else and compete, you know what. Okay, so only only
these sports have the only only the prize sports have
the option to go to their school of desire. We
have this problem with women's wrestling in which you know,

(01:05:36):
the women have to determine do they want to wrestle
or do they want to go to a school with
a you know, not taking any shots at the schools
that have you know, their degree programs right now. But
you know, the ivys don't have varsity wrestling. So if
a woman wants to get an ivy league degree, she
can't wrestle collegiately. Yeah, there's the clubs, but you can't.
So why is every other sport except for football and

(01:05:57):
men's basketball, especially men's basketball, because they've got you know,
the sponsorship levels near one hundred percent of the Division
IE level. It's like, oh, oh oh, well, so you
get to go wherever you want to play football, but
we have to search out in the places which there
they're dwindling on the Division IE levels. We've only got
seventy nine choices at Division one and now you're limiting that.

(01:06:20):
So I don't know. It's it's frustrating because again, the
people that make these decisions don't know how the rest
of the world lives. They don't even know how the
college football players live, let alone the college cross country
athlete who's counted three times because they run distance. They
go track indoor and outdoor, and they're counted as three
different athletes. So it's just again garbage in, garbage out.

(01:06:43):
That's another one, Glenn. So we've got crap and Gigo
just drives me nuts, as you can tell every show
I go on these rants. Anyway, moving forward.

Speaker 4 (01:06:53):
Moving forward, Slide sixty shows the average of roster size
or Division one wrestling. It's thirty four point eight. The
roster cap now is thirty That is only for the
schools that opted in right, So of the fifty five
schools that opted in if you multiply that number times
four point eight, which is the number above thirty. Now,

(01:07:17):
I don't want to get into a long talk about
numbers and stuff like that the way it work, but
it's going to be about two hundred and sixty four
spots that are eliminated. That is about ten percent of
all NCAA men's wrestling participants now the Ivy's lei. But

(01:07:38):
now all these schools that opted out, they can have
more than thirty on their roster.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
But dan, that's the that's the equivalent to seven and
a half more college wrestling teams. Yeah, so if you
get and I'm using your thirty, I'm using thirty five.
So if we take that and divide about that's seven
and a half you could you could fill thirty that
you can fill seven more program So college athletic directors, presidents,
there's now going to be room for seven more teams.

(01:08:05):
Who's it going to be?

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
Wishful thinking, yep, next life.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
Yeah, right, so now, maybe not least. The scholarships did
increase in house settlement. We've been hearing that there's an
opportunity for even more wrestling scholarships if they opt in.
But how realistic.

Speaker 4 (01:08:32):
Is this It's not realistic at all, Kevin. Okay, there's
now a higher number of scholarships you can have in wrestling,
but a lot of schools don't have the nine point
nine to aw okay, so that number is completely meaningless
to the school that doesn't have the nine point nine. Okay.

(01:08:53):
So if you would go from nine point nine scholarships
to thirty, okay, and you you can seal slide sixty
five the average cost of going to a public school
in state, public school out of state, in a private school.
We just created a number in the middle there, forty thousand.

(01:09:13):
If you were a year, if you would increase your
scholarships to thirty, that would cost you eight hundred and
four thousand dollars a year in addition to what your
budget is now. Now, I did not find a coach
at the convention that had eight hundred four thousand extra
dollars sitting around. So, guys, that is it's a bumper

(01:09:37):
sticker that makes people feel good. Okay, Hey, now we
can have thirty scholarships and the judge can go to
a cocktail party and said, I just opened up all
these scholarship opportunities for these kids that can't afford it. Well,
the school doesn't have the money to pay it, guys,
So it's a nonsensical fantasy. Now, as far where's the

(01:10:00):
school that has been the kingpin in collegiate wrestling men's
wrestling for the past ten plus years. Okay, that is
Penn State. Okay. The ad at Penn State, doctor Craft
said the wrestling team will not have thirty scholarships. Okay,

(01:10:22):
he didn't say what the number would be, but he
said they're not going to have that many. So get
that out of your mind, guys. That was just a
semantic thing that the judge and the people were doing
to act like they're trying to help people when the
reality is they're trying to cut the roster. Soots, that

(01:10:43):
was what the back end deal is in this now,
doctor Craft. The ad at Penn State even said they're
not going to have the maximum one hundred and five
football scholarships. Penn State's got a damn good tradition in football.
Made the semifinals last year, so guys, that is.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
I don't understand how you canna have one hundred and
five scholarship You have one hundred numbers zero through ninety
nine that's the max you should have on a team. Sorry,
you don't even need that many. NFL can have fifty eight,
you have one hundred numbers. You have one hundred players max.
That's that's called common sense.

Speaker 4 (01:11:24):
Okay, guys, I'm agreeing with you. Kids. Get the kick
out of it now. I'm gonna let Kevin do his
kevnoes here. But basically what I'm trying to bring to people,
and you'll see our show next month too, there's the
continuation of the series. There's a light at the end
of the tunnel, guys, and it is an oncoming tree. Okay,

(01:11:49):
don't believe all the hype you've been hearing. Kevin. Let's
hit us with your keV notes.

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
All right. Number one on slide eighteen. House Versus NCAA
is a loss suit that, when settled, allowed the nca
and something we didn't. I don't think we spend enough
time saying D one schools and this is all D
one schools to revenue share with its athletes. The settlement
also set up a method to distribute funds to athletes

(01:12:17):
who competed in D one since twenty sixteen. Number two
under the House Versus NCAA settlement, schools can now make
payments up to twenty point five million in twenty twenty
five point six to its athletes with annual cost of living.
This twenty point five is based upon twenty two percent

(01:12:38):
of pertinent revenues for large conferences over the past few years,
and it can also increase the number of scholarships and
each NCAA sport. Number three Revshare is a new added
expense and will be monitored by monitored by a new
oversight agency, the College Sports Commission. And we didn't even
talk about how we're gonna pay for that. To number four,

(01:13:02):
the Power five conferences have to opt into the deal
and the smaller D one schools schools can decide whether
they want to opt in or opt out. Number five,
the Revshare will add one point one four billion dollars
and expenses to the fifty six public Power five schools.

(01:13:22):
Adding this to pass losses, it will become an annual
loss of one point twenty five billion dollars. Number six,
how settlements set aside a two point seventy five billion
fund just pay athletes who competed after twenty sixteen before
nil and revshare. Lawyers are going to get seven hundred

(01:13:46):
and seventy million dollars of that amount, and I think
this is good for our sport. Twenty four schools with
NCAAD one wrestling teams opted out of the settlement, and
that something we can talk about later. Can they do?
Can they opt out? Next year? Most sports, including the

(01:14:10):
vast majority of NCAA Division one wrestling teams, will receive
absolutely no rev share money as well, most college sports
will not. In addition to revshare, athletes can now be
compensated for their name, image, and likeness nil. Yet another
regulatory commission or agency is going to be monitoring that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
Ten.

Speaker 3 (01:14:36):
Because of the new standards for roster sized limits, approximately
two hundred and sixty D one wrestlers will be They
probably already have been cut from their teams. These are
walk ons that just wanted to wrestle.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
And one thing to consider too on that last point, Kevin,
as before we get to the noses state, it is
a window for those leftover that are called designated I
think they were called designated student athletes, so they don't
count against your limit through the course of the rest
of their careers. So it's like they're basically a sense
a grandfather for as long as they're a college athlete,

(01:15:16):
and if they transfer, they don't count against that team either.
So if you're at thirty, you had four guys that
you had to get rid of, well, they're now designated
student athletes. You can carry them as long as they
stay there through the end of their college career. So
that is one caveat is they did create a grandfather
for us, so they're not just saying, Okay, we're all gone,
but some schools are just being proactive and saying we're

(01:15:38):
cutting bait right now. So something to keep an eye
on with that. So it's not all necessarily bad for
those two hundred and sixty athletes, but it ain't great,
you know, you stay of execution for lack of a
better word. But Glenn, what do we got coming up
on Part three?

Speaker 4 (01:15:52):
Okay? Part three Guys is going to be the final
part of this series on the business of college wrestling,
where were going to discus the potential congressional involvement, the
possibility of private equity money, more lawsuits, how many outsiders
have their hands in the cookie jar, and what college
sports in this predicament and game plan for the long

(01:16:13):
term sustainability of college Wrestling. Hope to see you guys.
I hope you guys enjoyed the show. See you next
month on behalf of Kevin Howsard and Jason Briant. I'm
Blenn Gormley. Thank you,