Ochelli Effect 11-7-2025 Lancer Special with Johnny Cairnes - Larry Hancock - Joe Borelli - The Ochelli Effect

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Get many tell me that.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Okay, if you're listening to my little online radio station,
this is coming on at an odd time of day
if you're hearing it live, and it just is the
seventh day of November twenty twenty five, allegedly, according to
that thing we call a calendar. And we're doing a
special here today. And what's it about the Lancer Conference
coming up November twenty first to the twenty third, Yes,

(00:35):
this month, a few weeks from now. I'll be starting
on my road trip on the nineteenth actually, but from
the twenty first to the twenty third, we'll be live
in Dallas, and i'm the MC over there. So today,
what I've got is the best guests that I could
sort of gather together a couple of weeks before. It's
a little more than two weeks away, and I think

(00:56):
it's a pretty diverse group of guys that we got there,
A group of guys and gals actually that are going
to be doing presentations, panels and everything, and God help
you all. I've actually had something to do with the
selection process this time. I'm not in charge of it,
but I've been involved. So anyway, I'm really happy actually
to kick this off a little early, although it's a

(01:17):
little late. I meant to go on air well about
ten minutes ago.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
But that's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
We're going to get to it quickly because I know
how to speak quickly, and so does this guy.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
Johnny Karen's has.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Been on this show one other time, and I was
having a hard time remembering it because it was years ago.
But I'll tell you that is a mistake on my part.
I should have had this guy on more. And when
I met him in Dallas, I was really really happy,
first of all, who I was looking at, the kind
of energy I got from this guy, the enthusiasm, and
quite frankly, the solid research he was doing, which I

(01:51):
got to watch in the presentation later, because again I
was doing five jobs that weekend, so I didn't necessarily
watch everybody's presentation. But Johnny I got to see outside
of the conference a little bit. I think we were
at the same dinner.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Whatever.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
It's a blur at this point, but this is one
of those good guys that I hope I can bring
on here more in case you guys have all forgotten
about him.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
Though.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Let's see how he's doing. He's talking to us from
over on the other side of the pond. Okay, so
note the accent, you know, like I don't have one,
right I know?

Speaker 3 (02:22):
Anyways, Johnny? First off, how you doing today? Uh? Oh?
Did I lose Johnny? I had him here. I swear
to he was connected. Let me see. I couldn't have
lost him already, did I?

Speaker 4 (02:37):
Now?

Speaker 3 (02:37):
I see him? I do hear you.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Look, you can shut off your camera if you want
because I'm not using the video. Let's get the audio
straight though, because I go.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Hey, Johnny, how you doing? And nothing? So I feel
foolish anyways.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yet, reintroduce yourself. I don't know if you heard everything
I just said, but I tried to go quick. You know,
I want to get into what it is you're going
to present and all that, and I'll let you roll
with it.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
But first, how you doing today, sir?

Speaker 5 (03:05):
I'm good? Thanks set Kerry.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
You doing oh well?

Speaker 2 (03:08):
You know, I'm surviving. Like I said, I really want
to try and get you on here more in the future,
because I mean, I was very sick after the time
that you and I met in Dallas. But frankly, it's
one of those things, what are you going to do?
But I meant to start getting you on the show
more often, and I've failed to do so my fault,
because we need to get you back on.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
By the way, those your dogs are mine probably mine. Anyhow,
here we go.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
They're broadcasting from home, So tell us about what it
is you're going to be presenting, get people a background,
and I'll kind of turn down my sound so that
the weenie dogs don't disturb us here. I got little dogs,
a bunch of them here, so we'll try and keep
them from disturbing us. But tell us about what it
is you're going to be presenting and everything else, please.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
Sure.

Speaker 5 (03:56):
So. My name is Jeanny Kirns.

Speaker 6 (03:58):
I have been caught up in the research and the
life and the assassination of President Kennedy since I was
around thirteen years old. I've never really done it seriously
until I don't know, maybe seventeen eighteen, and it's just
something that I've just done all these years.

Speaker 5 (04:18):
I've written.

Speaker 6 (04:19):
I write for Kennedy's and King, which joined the Eugenio's website.

Speaker 5 (04:23):
I've written numerous articles on the case.

Speaker 6 (04:28):
My most best work, I think, is my six part
article which I've done for the sixtieth anniversary in twenty
twenty three.

Speaker 5 (04:39):
And I have.

Speaker 6 (04:41):
Ever since then, I've been speaking at different conferences, especially
the conference in the UK for Daily Players the UK,
and mostly reading things. You know, my focus is shifting
now in the assass the nation more to the lifer

(05:03):
John Kennedy. So this is what I'm talking about at
Lanser for this conference. I'm just I'm indicted.

Speaker 5 (05:10):
I'm not going to be there in person.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
But right well, let me let me interrupt you for
a second. Because you're younger than me. I'm certain of that.
I mean, if not, I got to tell you, you're
making me feel terrible if you're anywhere near my age.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
But I don't think you are. How old are you?

Speaker 6 (05:26):
I will be fairly five and start next month, so
I'm fairly ford.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
Just now, Okay, okay, so I understand your progression. Okay.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
You joined it into the JFK assassination research around the
same time I did. So what happens here is like,
you know, we got into it as teenagers, and of
course our focus might have been different at that time.
I'm older, so it was around the twenty fifth anniversary
when my teenage entrance happened. You look kind of like
a musician. I was a musician at the time. Do

(05:59):
you play any I forget these these questions because we
only met that one time when you came over with
Dealy Plaza UK as a group.

Speaker 5 (06:07):
I think, go ahead, Yeah, that's right, So I do play.

Speaker 6 (06:12):
I play guitar, and my girlfriend would would say not
very well, but to me I sounded like a prime
John Lennon nice I do.

Speaker 5 (06:23):
I do love all sorts of music.

Speaker 6 (06:26):
One of my favorite artists at the minute, in fact,
is a guy.

Speaker 5 (06:29):
Called Steven Wilson Jr. Who's guy from Indiana. I went
to see him live.

Speaker 6 (06:35):
Earlier this year in Glasgow. Totally blew my mind. He
is a country and some of the best lyrics I've
heard in a very long time. So that's kind of
where I am. And then the minute with the music stuff. Bobby,
you Chuck, what do you listen to?

Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well, mainly I was a hard rocking, heavy metal kind
of guy, and frankly I played all kinds of music though,
you know, I did everything from wedding bands and blues
and jazz straight on to death metal and punk, you know,
in my time. But I'm a bit older now and
you know, but it does give you a different flavor

(07:12):
when you're dealing there. There are certain people that are
in the research community that were musicians, and believe it
or not, we end up gravitating toward each other a
little bit.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
Like I said, I.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Kind of like you, And that's a weird thing to
say because I only met you a one time, and
I met like hundreds of researchers and you're one of these.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
Guys where I was like, oh, thank god.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
As a matter of fact, I think I blurted out
to you at the restaurant at Campezies. I think I
blurted out to you, Oh thank god, somebody the looking
at you.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
I know you're one of my guys.

Speaker 5 (07:42):
So it was like it was the tattoos, Chuck, it
was the tattoos.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
That's what it was.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yes, Okay, So okay, now we've sidetracked a bit, and
we got Larry Hancock coming up in about fifteen twenty minutes.
So let's get back to your research though, because you've
shifted and we did talk about Oswald the last time
you were on the show. You've been to Dealey Plaza.
Now you know you've actually made the trip from over
on the other side of the pond to hear been

(08:09):
to Dallas presented at the conferences. I wish you were
going to be in person this year, but unfortunately, Look,
maybe it's better because with the way the airplanes are
going here with the government shutdown, who knows. Anyways, maybe
it's safer for you to stay over there this year.
But I really wish you were coming, but you've shifted around.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
So tell us what.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Just give us an idea why it is you're going
into the life of Kennedy now, just from like your
motivation standpoint, and then give us an idea, like, you know,
what are you going to do. We're going to talk
about his his later political life or are you going
to give us a kind of a broad view of
the whole thing. Are you going to go back to
him being in Congress, or are you're going to go
back to the local stuff when he was still trying

(08:51):
to ride on the Fitzgerald you know sort of family line,
which is the other side, not the Kennedy side of
his family, you know, when he was using that because
he had Honey fitz as a relative. Maybe people don't
know about that in Boston politics. How deep are you're
going to go into it? Is it going to be
political personal.

Speaker 5 (09:09):
What it's going to be personal.

Speaker 6 (09:13):
For sure. I I still believe in John Kennedy. And
that's a strange thing to say, considering he's been dead
for nearly sixty two years.

Speaker 5 (09:25):
But I still believe in him and his ideals.

Speaker 6 (09:29):
John Kennedy is someone that isn't in a history book.
To me, he is a live and breathing ideal and
it is something that guides me in my life. Not
to make him out to be like a saint or
anything like that. He was profoundly human, just like the
rest of us are.

Speaker 5 (09:45):
Right, But there's there's, there's there's there's.

Speaker 6 (09:49):
Examples in his life and his presidency that really inspire
me today.

Speaker 5 (09:56):
For example, p.

Speaker 6 (09:58):
T One O nine, the fact that he swam with
one of his crew men on his back for over
three miles. It's an extraordinary act of courage and.

Speaker 5 (10:12):
Stuff like that. You know, it just really continues to inspire. Fact.

Speaker 6 (10:15):
The fact of the matter is, I go back to
some of the speeches that he delivered. You know a
lot of people gravitate towards the you know, the June tenth,
nineteen sixty.

Speaker 5 (10:28):
Three America University University. It's a great speech.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yes, for me, Sorry, I blurred it out loud, but
I blurred it out loud when you said the date
I said the American University Speech. I wasn't even thinking
when I said it. And it's it's true.

Speaker 5 (10:45):
Yeah, but Jun ten sixty three, right, right?

Speaker 2 (10:50):
So what was so profound about that? I mean, to
you personally, I know what I would say, but this
isn't about me. So what what is it that stands
out to you there? And why do you think this
is important? I mean, look, there's been lots of years.
I mean, you're twenty years younger than me about and
I wasn't even alive when he died. I was particularly

(11:11):
touched by the fact that we would have been extracted
from the Vietnam War as an American and that affected
me directly personally. But what is the personal attachment you
have to this? And why is it the American University speech?
Just to give us a hint about one of the
most widely talked about speeches he gave, generally speaking, what
is it about that that attracts you to it and

(11:32):
makes you think that it was something obviously special to you?

Speaker 5 (11:37):
I speak humanity in the speech.

Speaker 6 (11:40):
I don't bought am Robert Kennedy and American politics, on
even politics in general.

Speaker 5 (11:47):
I haven't seen anyone make a speech like.

Speaker 6 (11:50):
That, and the preceding sixty two years since the events
in Delli Plaza as the fact is that he tried
to get.

Speaker 5 (11:59):
Us to wrecking ourselves in the other side.

Speaker 6 (12:07):
You know, we all breathe the same air, We all
charged our children's future, and we're all MOrTL John Kennedy
was profoundly touched and motivated by children. In fact, during
their thirteen Days of October nineteen sixty two, one of
the things that really caused them a lot of pain
was the you know, the children around the world who

(12:29):
would be killed as a result of nuclear confrontation with
the Soviet Union. You know, children who had no role,
who had no say in whose lives would be snuffed
out along with the rest of us. And I don't
know if you know, but when he fought for the
nuclear the limited nuclear test Bantry, John Kennedy, against all odds,

(12:53):
got passed. And again when he found out that the
fallout you know, from these tests came down in the atmosphere,
in the rain, you know, and it would it would
you know, it would affect the soil, It would affect

(13:13):
children born and yet to be born. Kenny o'donald said,
it's one of the most depressed they've ever seen them.
He was watching the rain fall outside the window into
the rose garden, and he said, and I'm just paraphrasing here,
that even the result of the malformation of one baby
as a result of the nuclear testing should be a

(13:37):
front of us all for this generation and generations yet unborn.
I just don't see that humanity and and and not
just a politician and uh and and another human being.
I think it's very profound and one that again, something
that I think that's often overlooked is the political courage

(13:59):
it took for As to address the nation the next
night and Janie eleventhineteen sixty.

Speaker 5 (14:05):
Three on civil rights.

Speaker 6 (14:07):
President Kennedy was told, or he was informed not to
do it.

Speaker 5 (14:12):
The fear was that it would not only cost.

Speaker 6 (14:14):
The Democratic Party of the South for generations to come,
but I would also cost him in nineteen sixty four election. Right,
But he done it because it was the right thing
to do.

Speaker 5 (14:27):
Well.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
See, that's the thing, Johnny. And that's the thing, Johnny.
You know what.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
I'm not one of these guys who tries to apply
sainthood to John Kennedy either. But I think it is
extremely important to recognize that there was a huge difference
in the way this man conducted himself from what we
see today. And that difference was seen not only in
the nuclear test ban treaty, but you know, because remember
I started researching this around the time you were born, Okay,

(14:53):
And the thing is this, what I see is a
guy who was continuously under pressure. He was being told
that we could win in a nuclear exchange with the
Soviet Union. He was told that we could get that done.
By his military leadership. He was being pressured to go
to war over conflicts that stemmed from places like Germany, Laos,

(15:15):
you know, and other places before Vietnam, but also including Vietnam.
And you know, let's invade Cuba, let's do this, let's
do that. He had pressures on him, and you know what,
it would have been easier, It would have made more money.
It would have attracted you know, a certain like hawkish
political you know, cachet to him. It would have given

(15:37):
him political capital among certain people in the United States,
and it certainly would have given him the thanks, so
to speak, of the military industrial complex in general who
would have been more than happy to prop it off
a bloodshed no matter where it was. And this guy
repeatedly did exactly the opposite thing. And I think the consideration,

(15:57):
in part is exactly what you're laying out, which is,
you know what, there's a whole And I bring this
up all the time, not inspired by John Kennedy, but
inspired by common sense that no matter what, if we're
going to loose the monster of war one way or another,
people make a lot of brash statements. They make a
lot of you know, sweeping statements about well, we'll just

(16:17):
go to war, we'll just bomb these people, things like this,
and I don't mean just politicians, but regular people. And
the thing is, this is a guy who said no,
And this is a guy who considered that there would
be people injured, there would be people killed, there would
be people impacted that never ever had anything to do
with that conflict, with that weaponry, with that war, with

(16:41):
that prophet, with any of it. And I think that
was a major consideration here, and that, my friend, is
what we call leadership of a different time period than
what we see now. I'm not naming names, I'm just
saying it's a different kind of leadership, especially in America.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
What are your thoughts about what I said? Do you object? No?

Speaker 6 (17:02):
I think as a leadership that we were longing for,
were craving for.

Speaker 5 (17:07):
And that's not just in the United States. I think
it's all over.

Speaker 6 (17:12):
John Kennedy gets there's a lot of their opinion divided
over Vietnam. The one thing I will say to people
that think that John Kennedy would have took the same
course of action as Lyndon Johnson did is that John
Kennedy knew that, and he told us to Mike Mansfield
and Kenny O'Donnell actually in the days leading up to Dallas,

(17:34):
that if he tried to get out of Vietnam, then
they would have had another Joseph McCarthy red scare on
their hands. It would have been denounced as a communist appeaser.
But when he got reelection, that's when he could have
really pulled out. And again he signed in SAM two
to sixty three first one thousand troops home. But the

(17:55):
political landscape at the time was, you know that they
couldn't no politician could be seen to, you know, lose
ground to communists and all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 5 (18:06):
But John Kennedy was never going into Vietnam.

Speaker 6 (18:09):
He was told on numerous occasions to bomb moref Vietnam,
bomb the hopes human trail, and put ground troops into
to Vietnam, and he never done it. Once he was
told to go to Warren Berlin, he was told to
go to Warren Laos, he was told to go to
war in Cuba, he was told to go to warre
in Vietnam, and every time he rejected it. Yet Lyndon Johnson,

(18:32):
when he was presented with war, he took it at
the first opportunity. And that's the difference between Kennedy and Johnson.
As Robert Kennedy says, you know, they used to have
a president who was a gentleman, and now they've got
a president he would only be nice to if you
want to kiss hiss behind all the time, right, you know.
But yeah, that's so that's what that's what inspires me

(18:53):
about it. And that's the tragedy of of Daily Plaza.
Of course, as well, he was he was he was
half the days.

Speaker 5 (19:03):
On this earth. You know, he was spent in excruciating agony.
He had a bad back.

Speaker 6 (19:09):
He was given the last ride to the Catholic church
four times before his inauguration, but he kept on going.

Speaker 5 (19:17):
And it would have been easy for him to live a.

Speaker 6 (19:18):
Life a luxury, to live a life where you know,
he didn't need to go to public service. But one
of his favorite books was Pilgrim's Way and it was
written by a Scotsman called John Buckan whose name is
Lord Tweedsmere, and he said that politics is still the
greatest and most honorable adventure in John Kennedy believed that,

(19:40):
and I think if you look at his life and
his presidency, I think that shines through well.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Outside of the Lancer conference, where can my listeners go
to follow up to see what it is you're working on?

Speaker 3 (19:52):
Do you have a central place?

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Are you working on putting anything together where we can
see Johnny Kern's work, you know, for ourselves. I mean,
is there a link I can share with people or
anything like that? Or do you just say go look
at my articles and look at my presentations or you
got something upcoming?

Speaker 3 (20:11):
What's happening with you?

Speaker 5 (20:14):
So am I do right?

Speaker 6 (20:16):
For Kennedys and King, I've wrote numerous articles. All articles
are basically on there. If you type my name into YouTube,
you'll find presentations that I've done in the past, and
I also co authored a book with a Canadian researcher,
a guy called Dave O'Brien.

Speaker 5 (20:35):
Dave was a.

Speaker 6 (20:36):
Reporter who got access to the Texas School Book to
positry in the nineteen seventies when the building was basically
derelict and the books called case not Closed, which obviously
was the playing words of the Gerald Posner book.

Speaker 5 (20:52):
So yeah, most of my work is on Kennys and King.

Speaker 6 (20:55):
I have got an article that's going to be coming
out on the twenty second and is going to be
a tribute to it.

Speaker 5 (21:04):
Fridge John F. Kennedy.

Speaker 6 (21:06):
So for anyone that wants to be my latest work
will be on Kennyth and Kenglin.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
The twenty second excellent.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Well, look, I look forward to that on the twenty second,
but also look forward to seeing your presentation at Lancer.
And you know, I appreciate you taking the time today
to do this with me, and I'm more than happy
I got to get you on more in the future.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Johnny.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
That's that's what I gotta do because I appreciate the energy.
I have similar thoughts to you, and again, I just
by meeting this guy I knew exactly. I was looking
at somebody that I want to follow and pay attention to,
another younger guy than myself. And I'm happy to see
that also, because you know, my generation was kind of

(21:49):
not as full as the previous generation when he came
to the research community, and I was kind of feeling
like we were losing the next generation or two.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
But thank the Gods.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
I've got you and Alex Harris and a couple other
guys that I've run into that let me know that
there's younger guys out there. I mean, really, if I
put you in Alex Harris's ages together, I don't think
I get mine, all right, So you know, here we go.
I'm getting to be one of the older guys, although
I'm going to get in a slightly older guy. And

(22:21):
I say that with all the joking there because I
love them. Larry Hancock coming up next, but you know,
there's the generation before me, and I'm happy to see
that we're going to continue on because eventually, my friend,
I want to get at something that resembles a full
public disclosure regarding the truth about what happened here. I

(22:43):
think it's important for the reasons that you're laying out
and your presentation, your upcoming article, and your current you know,
vein of research that you're tapping into. And I look
forward to seeing what you're going to do in the future.
And hope I'm going to be able to get you
on here more so we can talk about it and
I can keep up with you a little bit better.
So Johnny, again, thanks so much for joining.

Speaker 6 (23:04):
Me, love, thanks for having me so as a pleasure, Chuck,
and I look forward to speaking to you again.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
Absolutely soon, I hope.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
And so with that, I was going to take a break,
but since Larry Hancock is actually with us already, I
think I'll just see if Larry, are you ready to go?

Speaker 3 (23:24):
Do you want to talk to me yet? Or should
I take a break.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
No, I'm fine, Chuck.

Speaker 7 (23:30):
You know, as an old guy, I got up early
for my afternoon nap and it's just a few minutes
before time to eat, So I'm good.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Listen, I'm getting at that age though you and I
would be trading nap times if we were anywhere near
each other. It would be like, well, look, i'm taping
my nap here, you take yours there, and we'd figure
it out. But you know, Johnny, I don't know if
you want to hang out or if you want to disconnect,
but you could hang out if you want and take
a listen to what Larry and I are going to
talk about up to you.

Speaker 5 (24:00):
Yeah, I might listen for a bit.

Speaker 6 (24:02):
It's because it's so late here, I might have to
slink away. But I'm always interested in what Larry's got
to say, so I'll definitely stay around for a wee bit.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Okay, great, So you just hang out Johnny and Larry.
It's you know, long time no talk. You and I
talk every couple.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Of weeks, like, oh yeah, days.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
A few days ago. That's okay.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
I love talking to you, Larry. I'd have you on
every week if I thought I could convince you to
do it. But you know, it's it's interesting Johnny's talking
about the you know, the living legacy so to speak,
when it comes to the JFK a bit more. But
you have been as of late focused kind of on Well,
let's just go with it. The Oswalt Puzzle, which is

(24:45):
the name of your latest book, which I highly recommend
as a matter of fact, if you if you want
the truth, I would say I recommend it above you
know Larry's other work on the case, depending on what.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
It is you want to look into.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
It is one of the best pieces that you put
out yourself and David Boyland together. He's your co author,
and you'll be presenting with him this year at Lancer
again virtually. Unfortunately, I wish you were going to be
there in person too, but I'll be there and we'll
get your virtual presentation yours and David's. Can you give

(25:19):
us a hint what it is that you know you're
working on, going to be doing so on and so forth,
you know, give us an idea talk about the conference.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
The floor is yours, sir. Oh sure.

Speaker 7 (25:32):
Well, First of all, I really do miss being at
the conference. I know David does as well. I was
at the conference in person for the better part of
two decades every year, trip down to Dallas, drive down
to Dallas, enjoyed, enjoy you know, local visits and doing
tours in Dallas. I led walking tours for years. So

(25:54):
I do miss the physical presence for sure, There's no
doubt about that. And all the I probably did more
research in the hallways, you know, talking to Malcolm Blunt
behind a pointed platt.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Malcolm, you know, slipping some documents my way, or meeting
with Jim or.

Speaker 7 (26:15):
Just a host of people that could be either Jim, Jim,
Mar Jim d Gdo you know that used to be
used to be an activity I look forward to every year.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
So I do miss the in person part, but.

Speaker 7 (26:27):
I'm happy I'm still able to do it remotely and
still able to participate remotely and hopefully going to have
some dialogues with people during the conference, even outside our presentation,
remotely as it were.

Speaker 5 (26:41):
But so I'm looking.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
Forward to it.

Speaker 7 (26:44):
I wouldn't want November to pass by without it, even
if I can't be there in person. As far as
the hint of what we're talking about, David and I
are talking about, we're following along the trail that we
opened up in the Oswell Puzzle. And I would have
to say, just as a personal declaration, having been in

(27:06):
it for so long, you know, you get into this
research and at some point in time you have to
satisfy yourself, you know what am I going to focus on?

Speaker 1 (27:15):
What's going to answer my burning question? And to some
extent I did that.

Speaker 7 (27:20):
I did that with Tipping Point, which laid out what
my conclusions were on the actual nature of the conspiracy,
and someone would have talked. I laid out my thoughts
on the nature of the cover up, and I view
the two as partially linked but not totally part of
any grand plan.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
But that takes us to Lee Harvey Oswell.

Speaker 7 (27:41):
Because that at the end of all of that, my
view was Oswell a certainly is innocent Oswell as a patsy.
Oswell is just not any patsy, but it's a patsy
ordered obtained to point the finger of the assassination in
a certain direction, not just to make it. Don't think

(28:02):
the conspiracy ever intended him to be a loan nut.
That's probably the only satisfaction I take out of the
whole thing is that part of the plan failed, failed miserably,
or was obstructed. Let's put it that way. It didn't
come out. The whole thing didn't come out what they
wanted it to be.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
So that makes me feel good.

Speaker 7 (28:23):
But so David and I, that's what took us to
take another look at Lee Harvey Oswald, totally revisiting Oswald
regardless of anything I've written in the past. We took
it a new approach, and what we're doing now is
extending our research, we've been I guess for the last

(28:46):
six months, we've been continuing to research two sets of
leads really and two sets of leads with some input
from the new doc releases that point us towards all
who knew Oswald, who knew about him, who would have
been in a position to target him for particular purpose,

(29:08):
who would have had the ability to reach out to him.
I know, twenty years ago, twenty five years ago, one
of my biggest.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Questions was as well, who knew him well enough to
make him a patsy? Who knew him?

Speaker 5 (29:22):
Where was he visible?

Speaker 1 (29:23):
And if you think he was visible, And if you think.

Speaker 7 (29:26):
The conspiracy involved elements of CIA operations people, then how.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
Did they know about him?

Speaker 7 (29:32):
And one of the things that has come about, fortunately
is that with David's efforts at mapping and understanding the
CIA's paramilitary operations and their anti Cuban operations, which has
taken years, with a lot of cryptbusting that a lot
of us have done Simpic and others so that we

(29:53):
can actually read documents, not just read documents, but trace
the document.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Flow, who's copied, where is it going? Oh, what's their
jobs they working with? We just right, and it reached
a whole new level, right.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
And this is important because look, at the end of
the day, if Oswald is nothing else, he's useful as
an element in the propaganda and the propaganda that emerges
as a result of you know, the the sort of
the blowback, the aftermath of the assassination itself, the way.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
They dealt with it, you know, in real time.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
But also to create you know, the legend, to create
the character on the media stage that would ever after
be useful. This was all engineered in a certain way,
and I think that gives you some hints as to
who was interested, because he had to be cultivated. You know,
there's a reason why he gets radio interviews, there's a

(30:44):
reason why the television station you know, captures him at
a certain time doing the activity he does.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
That was all arranged. That was all, you know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
In other words, these things had to be created so
that you had a workable legend and you had something
to distribute across the nation when the news went live,
and this way, I mean every place in the in
the United States and probably across the world got to
hear this guy saying, no, I'm not a communist. I'm
a Marxist Leninist. You know, this was useful because of

(31:14):
the current, you know, state of affairs when it came
to the Cold War, et cetera. So I think that
is is useful information. And David is developing a way
of looking at this to see who it is that
could have been maneuvering him, to see who it is
had access to him.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
I mean, you're doing it too.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
But it's really interesting, and I think that's that's going
to be a key thing to show people because this.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
Is how we've been able to access it over all
these years.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
How did they use this guy as a character who
would have been responsible for handling the programs and sort
of you know, moving him across the board that you know,
the game board, if you will, you know, as a pawn,
as a patsy.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
So this is all rather.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
Fascinating and it's something that is worthy of reverse engineering
in my mind. And we need to understand this because
I think it reveals formulas and one could say that
we could see the nuts and bolts of this, we
might understand how propaganda efforts and other let's call them
historical legends were built afterwards and previous to Oswald, you know,

(32:19):
sixty three. Given the landscape of the time, given who
was in charge of what at the time, et cetera,
where their focuses were, where their assets were available, what
was being funded, all of this stuff is relevant. It's
a bit complex, but it's all relevant. So yeah, I
think this is really excellent. I'm looking forward to seeing

(32:40):
this as well. Are you guys going to take up
the whole hour you think with it? Or I know
you got more than an hour's worth of material to go, we.

Speaker 7 (32:48):
Will take we will take up the whole time with this.
We're really because one of the reasons we take up
the whole time, as you said, it is complex, but
also there's a timing element to it, and as we've
talked about in the past, there's always the devil is
in the details, and it's one thing to be able

(33:10):
to identify who knew what, who was doing what project,
But then the timing comes into play. When did they
know it, When did they know it when they could
when could they have started to do something about it?
And for example, we know that the DRE began a
propaganda program against Oswald that the CIA shut down.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Why would that happen?

Speaker 7 (33:33):
Why wouldn't the CIA very successful everything you just described
in New Orleans, the dra took, they took to Miami,
they started writing congress persons, they started putting out flyers,
and suddenly the CIA shut them down. Why would That's
not standard practice when you're paying the DRE to do propaganda.

(33:54):
Then what we find out is, at the same time
they shut him down, a fellow in Special Fair staff
in Miami was Propaganda Operations begins his own program, taking
the information from New Orleans, taking the knowledge of Oswald,
and starting a new program that we literally know nothing

(34:16):
about other than the kickoff. So the timing for a
lot of this stuff appears to be questioned, but appears
to be useful. And looking at what happened, and Chuck,
I have to.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Ask you, it looks like we might just have lost
the feed.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
No, no, we're okay, we just lost Johnny again. He
had to hang up.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
Oh okay, that's what it was. He disappeared and I disappeared.
But I'm still here. Okay, got it, Yes you are.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
Chronology it will.

Speaker 7 (34:46):
Take a full hour because we have to talk about
not only people and people in what position, but people
who knew what When we have to talk about anomalies,
and this is really only half of what we're doing.
So this all relates to what the CIA was doing

(35:06):
and speculation about the CIA's operational use of Lee Harvey Oswald,
what they had in progress, and what would have been
hugely embarrassing on November twenty second, people that talk about
a poison peel in Mexico City, that's only a minor part.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Of the story.

Speaker 7 (35:26):
The speculation we're presenting is that there was a full
fledged propaganda program ready to go overseas, not inside the US,
but overseas to support this new m world operation. Totally black,
totally deniable, just about ready to release, and then Oswald
comes up as a long cooman in Dallas and everybody's

(35:49):
reputation is at risk. We're looking at the other angle too,
but that will come out next year. We're looking at
given what I just described, who knew what.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
About Oswald?

Speaker 5 (36:04):
When?

Speaker 7 (36:05):
How would this tag into the actual conspiracy because that
was just the first element what the CIA was doing
or thinking about doing with Oswald. And then the conspiracy
steps in and makes use of Oswald. Two different things,
although they hinge around some of the same people in
Miami it's a very black story.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Right, because look, the assassination winds up tying to the
Cuban operation, which was underway already.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
So what you've got to do.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Is lay out what was going on at the time
forget Oswald to start with, Okay, here's the way the
landscape is, right, then you got to start laying in
chronological order a bunch of things that were happening within
the system, let's just say. And then you got to
lay out the chronology of how it interacted with Oswald
and start to make sense of it. Okay, what could

(36:56):
we expect from this assuming then what do we see
here that went the you.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
Know, sideways?

Speaker 2 (37:03):
What didn't function according to the way it should have
and why is that significant? And did that start happening
before the assassination or was it just a cya thing afterwards?
These are all important questions to put these things in
proper order. And I know this word comes up a
lot with you and I, but in their proper context,

(37:24):
you have to know what was happening, what usefulness this
guy would have served theoretically, if you're just looking at
the Cuban operation, put the assassination aside, right, because he
could have without the assassination. Let's say theoretically he's still
useful as an American propping up or propagandizing people in
public regarding the Castro regime, defending Castro. Now, this could

(37:48):
be all sorts of an intelligence operation to draw people out,
to find out who's who, to see in a particular
area where the concentration is, to test the local Cuban population,
et cetera.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
These are all these.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Are all general speculations on my part.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
Guys.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
I'm not revealing anything here. What I'm saying is that
you got to put that in context. Now we put
it in order. This is the way it went, this
is the way it kind of should have went. And
now the assassination comes up, what do we see before
and after that? And if you can lay all this out,
you get an idea of who had their hands in

(38:23):
this operation one way or another. You have an idea
of where the money came from, You have an idea
of who else he interacted with.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Right, So this lays out a.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Lot of important facts about the alleged assassin.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
Am I right or wrong?

Speaker 5 (38:39):
Now?

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Absolutely, you're right.

Speaker 7 (38:40):
The real question is at what point do these things
begin to run in parallel.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
I mean, let's assume there.

Speaker 7 (38:49):
Is a black propaganda operation going on by the CIA
that's being prepared, and we see traces of that, and
we'll talk about the traces that we see. The interesting
act is we see now see so many documents and
so much about the Cuba project in Miami, at Miami Station,
but it's all on the military and paramilitary side. We

(39:12):
see nothing about this operation that we now know is
going on because the head of it asked the FBI
to provide information from the FPCC. They wanted documents, they
wanted letters, they wanted you know, we need information from
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee because we're going to

(39:34):
twist it and we're going to fake it, and we're
going to revert you reverse it. We're going to take
it overseas and make them look really, really dangerous. We
know that was the goal of the operation. We know
they contacted the FBI and among the information sent to
them was coming from the guy that had been writing

(39:55):
letters to Oswald and responding to Oswell's letters. So the key,
the key to all of this is to try to
put that in parallel as you describe and see at
the point in which they diverge. When do the people
in Miami who are running what is probably a sanctioned
perfectly you know dark you know, probably end project. When

(40:20):
do they get had? Basically, when does somebody steal Oswald.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
And begin to manipulate him to make him.

Speaker 7 (40:28):
Something more than just a propaganda tool, but an actually
patsy in the assassination. That also gives us a clue
as to when the actual plans for the assassination began
to gel.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
And that's very important, very much so.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
So Look, with the last ten minutes or so that
I have reserved with you, I want to let you
know that there's going to be a chat room. And
I don't know if you've gotten the information yet, but
I'm sure you will because I spoke to Gabby the
other night about this. We're going to have a chat
room that people will be able to go into during
the live conference from the twenty first to the twenty third,
And this way you'll be able to interact with people

(41:05):
and you won't need Facebook because you've been I still
can't believe I'm saying this. Larry Hancock is like banned
on Facebook.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Okay, but anyway, we're gonna have a chat tangle room
that people will be able to visit and you'll be
able to sign into Larry. You should be given administrative
access to it all and all that so that during
the conference live they'll be able to interact with you
and also with us there on the ground. We should
all be able to get into this chat room during
that weekend, the twenty first to the twenty third, which

(41:37):
is when the Lancer Conference is in person. But we
also have a planned extra day of virtual stuff which
might occur on Monday. My understanding is that'll be the
extra day on Monday for people that go to Assassination
Conference dot com and sign up and get your tickets.
And oh, by the way, you can get ten percent
off with the code Ocelly ten. The coupon code is Ocelli,

(42:00):
which is my name and one zero ten as in
you get ten percent off. But so you're going to
have a live chat room, are you still willing to
do the live chat with us that weekend or.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
Are you going to have time? What's going on there now?

Speaker 1 (42:14):
I'm looking forward to that.

Speaker 7 (42:15):
Gabrielle mentioned that last night when David and I did
our recording for the conference of our presentation.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
She said, you you would.

Speaker 7 (42:23):
Educate me on how to get into it, and I said,
that's great.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
I'm more than happy to do that. It gives me
a view into the conference. Let's you know, let' let
me talk with people and possibly because I've.

Speaker 7 (42:35):
Been at this so long and have heard so much,
at least some of it I remember, and you know,
on many many topics can share with people that are
interested after moderating, like fifteen conferences or so, there's a
lot of history there.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
If I can just recall it, I'm.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
Sure you'll do fine.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
We got Joe BURRELLI coming up in about ten minutes,
but before we get there, because you to be online
on the jitsu thing, which by the way, Joe, I
don't need your camera.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
If you want to kill that, that's fine.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
We can just have the audio feed and just hang
out while I'm still finishing up with Larry here. But no,
I look forward to that and I want to be
able to use it on the ground. Now I'm going
to be busy, busy running around and introducing people, and
allegedly I'll be part of one panel anyway, so we'll
see what happens. Plus I'm giving a presentation. So I
don't know how much I'll be in the chat room.

(43:26):
I'm going to be depending on you, Larry.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
So and that that'll be again available.

Speaker 5 (43:31):
That I should be able.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
To be I should be able to be there all
the time.

Speaker 7 (43:35):
And you know, if I see something separate, I'll let
you Gabrielle and know by email or something like that.
If I you know, if the feed goes off or
something happens.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
So, yeah, I plan. I definitely plan to.

Speaker 7 (43:47):
Be hanging out almost all of the conference, just as
if I had been there in person.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
We'll just consider this the hallway.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Well, if we have reception on the cell phones, do
me a favor, just call Gabby or call Can and
tell them to directly because I don't carry a cel phone. Okay,
but just call him and tell us any proproblems, because
you're going to be like our lifeline to the online people.
And you've served in that role for the past couple
of years. And you know, the last time I think

(44:15):
you were there was geez, what maybe twenty nineteen.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Three years?

Speaker 7 (44:21):
Well, I think about maybe it's been three years since
I've been there.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
Oh, you were there for maybe sixty of.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
It maybe, So maybe this four years ago.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
Yes, you were there for the sixtieth.

Speaker 5 (44:32):
It was on the sixtieth.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
Yeah, you were there for the sixtieth anniversary in twenty three.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
That's right now, my memories got it.

Speaker 4 (44:39):
I just wanted to butt in Larry and say hi
because I love you, and Hi, Joe, how are you, sir?
And Larry was like, you know, he was like the
president walking around at the sixtieth and he was gracious.

Speaker 5 (44:56):
Enough to.

Speaker 8 (44:59):
Give me an hour or on Sunday morning to review
some of the documents and presentation we had found on
James Verbartin and just someone that's so great with us
time and I consider a mentor.

Speaker 5 (45:17):
So I'll let you guys finish off.

Speaker 8 (45:19):
I just want to say hi, Larry, and whenever you're done,
I'll kick in or I'll just hang out.

Speaker 7 (45:24):
If I had just been able to keep that security detail,
maybe I would have been on Facebook now, but you know,
things happen.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
I really cannot.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
I'm still dumbfounded by the fact that your banned on Facebook.
But yeah, that's right, you were there in twenty three.
As a matter of fact, you gave me something that
I treasure that's on the top of my bookcase behind me.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
That year, and I appreciate that as well.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
But look, also, Larry is on my show all the time,
and I tell you guys, go to larrydshancock dot com
follow his blog because it's more informative than people's whole
web sites, and it's just the stuff he thinks about
blogging about. On top of the fact that I recommend
all of his books, they're all on my shelf behind me,
which is not just JFK stuff, by the way, might

(46:11):
include some things that revolve around the case, like I
don't know, Nexus, Surprise.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
Attack, Shadow Warfare. Geez.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
These titles sound like they might be something that might
have something to do with the Kennedy assassination, but they're
not focused on it. But of course I highly recommend
someone would have talked tipping point, you know. Please the
Oswald puzzle right now is the best thing to get.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
And do we have.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Any announcements about anything coming up, Larry? Are we waiting
on that what's going on there?

Speaker 5 (46:44):
No, we do.

Speaker 7 (46:46):
We do hope to have what David and I are
working on now in print in some fashion next year,
so it will become available.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
I don't have any time on that.

Speaker 7 (47:00):
Yet, but we've we've completed our initial work on those
those two areas.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
You know, who knew what at.

Speaker 7 (47:06):
The CIA and what does that mean for operational interest
in Oswald? And where's the crossover to the conspiracy and
how did that work?

Speaker 1 (47:17):
How did they take over Oswald?

Speaker 7 (47:19):
How did they essentially take Oswald out from under you know,
the CIA propaganda element and and began to set them
up when So we finished all of that, it's written up,
it's even edited, and I just don't have a specific
data as to how it's actually.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Hell when.

Speaker 7 (47:43):
It will be available next year, but that will happen
and right, and I'll publisher now for another book on UFOs.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
So who knows.

Speaker 7 (47:55):
I'm not sure I would live through it, but I
went off the deep end and proposed it.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
Here we go, Okay, so it just as a quick thing. Yeah,
there will be in adendum to the Oswalt puzzle, and
we'll keep you informed on this show as to when
exactly it drops, and I will let you guys know
right away how you can get it and all that stuff.
But in the meantime, hey, look, if you get really
worn out on the JFK topic, indeed we can go
into UAP.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
They call it now.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
We could talk about those disclosures and the work of
the you know, current Congress if they ever get back
in session, I guess, you know, and see if we
get any more disclosures, there any new data. You know,
It's funny, Larry, I see a couple of pronouncements from
mainstream media that sound like they're starting to come in

(48:42):
line with that group that you know, didn't exactly grab
the headlines the same as the guy who said we
have alien technology and aliens in our possession. But you know,
it seems as though that is having an influence that
group you're working with. And of course we've happily promoted
that and the book on Identified, which is again another
great work by Larry Hancock, but that definitely doesn't revolve

(49:05):
around the JFK assassination. That's more about what they used
to call UFOs and currently call UAP and the UAP
what has it done. I saw recent discussions actually about ges.
You know, we see that there are actual patterns related
to the interest of these vehicles, etc. That are surrounding

(49:26):
our nuclear facilities or at least were it seems as
though that's not currently what their focus is. And yet
we're still seeing them and they do exist, etc. And
guess what, a whole lot of academic data was put
together by a team Larry, not all by himself, but
as part of a team that did all that work.

(49:47):
What is the name of that organization again, the USC
I think it is something like that.

Speaker 7 (49:52):
And yeah, Scientific Coalition for Anomalous Phenomena, right, which is
basically it's SCU Study of Phenomenous funnel, which which honestly
I dislike because I think UFO was very straightforward. But

(50:13):
when the new government committee decided to study it again,
they made it anomalous phenomena, which, you know, phenomena could
be lots of things, so we took it away from
being something pretty physical and pretty obvious and made it
mysterious again, which I think was going in the wrong direction.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Well, not only could phenomena be a bunch of different things,
but so could anomalous. But okay, fine, government speak, what
are you going to do? But we got to give
them the keywords and phrases and acronyms to go search
for because I want them to find your work, and
we will put links in the show notes. But if
you go over to Larry's blog, and just roll it
back a little bit. You can easily see the work

(50:56):
that Larry's doing on that as well, So not only
j Kay and moderating a chat room for us and
everything else. Maybe you're not traveling, but you're still doing
a whole lot of work.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
And I know you.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Dread volunteering for another book because it's so funny I've seen, Larry. Now, well,
I've got an article. Okay, so I've got a monograph. Okay,
maybe I have a book. Every time he dives into something,
it seems, I mean not every time, but it seems
to have happened I don't know, good three, four or
five times since I've known you, Larry.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
Is that a pattern or what it seem?

Speaker 7 (51:32):
It does seem to work that way, and I've decided
that it's a good thing. I didn't set out to
make a career as a short story writer.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
They just would not have worked out.

Speaker 8 (51:43):
Yes, now it is a novel and a masterpiece. We
could blame everything on Rex, right, Larry.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Yeah, that will do for the moment, without a doubt.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
Well, at the end of the day, yeah, yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
There will be there will be more. At this point,
it's kind of interesting.

Speaker 7 (52:00):
The Oversight Committee in Congress is looking at four different
subjects right, three assassinations and UFOs, and I've provided material
that's working with the committee on all four areas. Beginning
to lose track of who I tell what about which?

Speaker 2 (52:20):
Yeah, I mean, Larry, at this point, the only thing
you're not working on is the Epstein files.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
But stay tuned, folks. You never Yeah, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
I'm not trying to push you into anything.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
If I were twenty years younger, i'd go for it.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
There you have it, So Larry, I appreciate you taking
the time. I know we're at the end of your
time here that I arranged with you, and I appreciate
that as well as the fact that you're with me
every two weeks or so. I'm not sure when we're
going to come back to this because obviously we're not
going to be able to get to anything, you know,
the week of the conference, so I'll probably talk to you,

(52:54):
I don't know, maybe around Thanksgiving or maybe the week after,
and we'll get back together and you know, maybe do
a post mortem on the conference or something like that
if that suits you, and if not, we'll talk about
your next project. Or your current project or whichever article
is about to you know, you know, germinate into a book.

(53:16):
We shall see, right, But in the meantime, Larry, I
really appreciate it, and everybody go to Larrydashhancock dot com.
That again is where you can keep up with well.
I'll give you the links in the show notes because
most of you are going to catch the podcast. So
the thing is, go in the show notes and take
a look under Larry Hancock. You'll find a link to
his blog, a way to find his books, and usually

(53:38):
I'll put something there. Likely it'll be the Oswalt Puzzle,
a direct link, because if you don't have it already,
you need to get it, and you're gonna want to
follow up when these guys add to it as well,
because his co author David Boylan and himself will be
presenting at the Lancer conference, as I said before the
twenty first to the twenty third of November.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
So thank you.

Speaker 7 (53:59):
Larry, oh, thanks Chuck. I appreciate It's good to see
Joe again, and I'll probably drop off, but I'll be
connecting with everybody remotely during the conference, so everybody safe
travels and we'll we'll get together with you all again
electronically then exactly, thank.

Speaker 5 (54:18):
You, Larry.

Speaker 8 (54:19):
I joined a few minutes early just to say hi
to you and crash your last couple of minutes, so
your segonment. But I do have unidentified one and a
half feet behind me, and I'm all right my dad
recently surprise attack, so because highly of it. So and

(54:40):
if you don't have the Oswalt puzzle, what the hell
are you doing? And I think we're going to talk
in about a month on our thing, this thing, all right.

Speaker 7 (54:50):
I'll joining you to take a look at that and
just make a note. David and I need to talk
more about Tony Verona, but that's another story by Chuck.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
We'll see you in Dallas one way of the.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
There you go, I'll see, I'll see in the movies.
Everybody stick around. We're gonna take a quick break here
and when we come.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
Back, we'll have Joe BURRELLI with us and uh pitch.

Speaker 9 (56:06):
In Denial Secret Wars with air strikes and Tanks by Larryhncock.
Secret Wars became a staple of US covert operations and
are still happening today. Larryhancock's book in Denial Rips the
cover off many of them using new files.

Speaker 10 (56:23):
It exposes things about the Bay and Pigs that no
one has ever written about before. It shows why it
really failed and why the United States did not earn
from it. It also shows why other countries today are
doing secret operations with more success. This is the book
that puts what some want to deny into the light.
In Denial secret wars with air strikes and tanks Larryhancock.

(56:48):
For more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com.
Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com.
In digital or physical work?

Speaker 11 (56:57):
Do you like history? Real history that you were never
taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in
Nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, with
new documentation never seen before that'll open your eyes to
events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War

(57:17):
Nuclear Bombs in Nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen forty
five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at
Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swanson.

Speaker 9 (57:32):
Travel through calm sage.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national
transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in
the context of The Times and reveals never before published
information about the Cuban missile crisis.

Speaker 8 (57:55):
President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had
been president two hundred years ago.

Speaker 10 (58:00):
His assassination took place in the context of the Cold
War and the rise of the national security state.

Speaker 5 (58:05):
Before World War II, the United States was a continental republic.

Speaker 8 (58:09):
In the decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba,
but knew that there were short range missiles on the
island arn't with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy
because they were on mobile launchers.

Speaker 7 (58:24):
Their invasion could have led to a Third World War,
and they wanted to go to war anyway.

Speaker 8 (58:29):
The War State by Michael Swanson reveals why and will
show you what President Kennedy was up against.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
For more information, the Warstate dot Com

All Episodes

Ochelli Effect 11-7-2025 Lancer Special with Johnny Cairnes - Larry Hancock - Joe Borelli

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Ruthie's Table 4

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ochelli Effect 11-7-2025 Lancer Special with Johnny Cairnes - Larry Hancock - Joe Borelli