Alan G Parker Who Killed Nancy Spungeon

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Completely.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
It was totally my internet crash. But we're back on
the air now with Alan G. Parker and he's telling
us about who killed Nancy. We left off, you were
talking about how Sid Vicious still looked good on the
T shirts.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Well, you know, I always say Sid was the James
Dean of his own generation, you know, Shay Gavor if
you like his own generation insomuch as that what's the
line lifts fast, die younger, to leave a good looking corpse,
and you still sell good T shirts. Years later, Sid
hooked up with this American girl, Nancy Spungeon. She was

(00:39):
a bit of a groupie. She'd worked for the prostitute
she also worked as a stripper, and she was literally
very much into injection heroin and he was all ready
to you know, involved in the drug scene before they met.
So it sort of continued from there and they got
in involved with each other. When the Pistol split, which

(01:01):
was in the early part of nineteen seventy eight, they
really had nowhere to go that, you know, the other
guys who'd been in the band had talent and had
record deals and this kind of thing. Sid was a
bit of a sort of stranger to all that he'd
just been a sort of he'd been almost like the
gimmick in the band, And so they ended up drifting

(01:21):
further and further into their own rather dark and rather
depressing world and including Heroin and the Sun the other
and ultimately, in October nineteen seventy eight, noun sispunge and
died in the Chelsea Hotel in New York City, stabbed
once in the abdomen, bled to death over a two
hour period, and Sid was arrested. He was later released

(01:44):
on bail via the record company. He had a sort
of fairly bizarre Christmas where he's in the out of
rakas isl in prison. He was released on bail for
a second time in early February, pending a court case,
and he never made it to court because he was
supposed to go to court on a third February, and
he died of a heroine overdose on the second of February.
So this was not a particularly fabulous story really. I mean,

(02:09):
Sid was dead at twenty one and now he was
dead at.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Twenty tragic, tragic. What were the circumstances of her death
that night? Like, how did they if she took two
hours to bleed? Out how did they discover the body
and all that.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
The body was found under the sink in the bathroom Ofst.
Bring one hundred of the Chelsea Hotel, and there was
a hunting knife still sticking out of her. She didn't
stab once in the abdomen and she literally had bled out,
which is one of the reasons that certain policemen did
not believe Sid did it, because Sid had been out
called on this cocktail of drugs on the bed in
the other room for what the local hospital later found

(02:48):
was about a seven hour period and so ultimately, you know,
he more than likely was not the guy that did it,
was the first thought, and then he started finding that
during the night because their hotel bedroom was a bit
like Hope House, there were various other junkies and drug

(03:09):
dealers and rock and roll musicians calling on them at
various times of the night. Also, the thing that I
don't think anyone had looked into until we got involved,
was that their record label in England had recently paid
them a large sum of money in cash because they
had no bank account, and that money had been in
the bottom drawer of the bedroom and the next morning

(03:30):
the money was also gone, So not only was sited
wake up, not knowing what the hell had happened with
Nancy dead, under the think that the money, which was
a fairly substantial amount of money for a bit of
gigging he'd been doing in New York on the punk scene,
and the money their label had given them was also
completely missing.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
So Sid walk up and he discovered the body.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yes, he was the first person to sign the body. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
And he called the police.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
He called the police. He originally called an amblems. He
called the police straight afterwards. And because of who he was,
they'd been arrested a couple of times in New York
for drug possession, and he had this really sort of
you know, you can imagine, you know, you're hardly going
to have a fantastic image with the name like fid Vicious.
So the ambulance was the first thing he called. But
the police arrived before the ambulance did, and they just

(04:18):
seemedtly took one look at the room and arrested him,
and you know, went into the process of finding out
who did it. It was only I think further down
the line that they started to believe that perhaps or
some of them, not all of them, but some of
the police are on the case, started to believe that
maybe Sid didn't because there were other people that had

(04:39):
been in the room and there was this vast sum
of money, I think about twenty five thirty thousand dollars
had gone missing overnight.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Now the murder weapon. Was this a weapon that that
was owned by that home? Was it owned by said
or Nancy? Was it in that home before it?

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yes, it'd have been co by Sidem Nancy. It was
a Jaguar k leven hunting knife, which they're quite big knives.
I mean, I would say with the blade folds into
the handle, but with the blade open from the handle,
probably about ten or eleven inches long.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
And that was a knight that they owned.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
That, Yeah, they don't it. For some time they collected
knives and studied delts and bullet debts and all kinds
of punk paraphernalia, you know.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Okay, And then what about there must have been did
Sid have blood on his clothing, any kind of you know,
indications that really.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
All these clothes were friends. All these clothes were forensically
examined and there wasn't many bloody any announcey's blood anywhere
near him?

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Really, Then what about because you know, in the papers
at the time it was like, you know, this was
done deal, you know, sitting and they just killed Yeah,
I say.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
I think the problem was that if he'd been called
let's say, I don't know, let's say Simon Price and
apologies for every aside, and Bryce is listening, and you know,
maybe a lawyer or a dentist or something really nice.
The reality, I suppose is it's a bit difficult trying
to get a fur wrapp in the world's press if

(06:12):
your name is Sid Vicious, isn't it you know, it's
kind of I guess it's not the easiest way to
get a fur rap with a name like Sid Vicious.
And I think what the press did, as they have
been good at doing for the last forty years anyway,
forty to fifty years, is they put two and two
together and made six. He thought this is what it

(06:33):
must be, because that's what his name is.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
You know.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
Oddly enough, the bail money, when the bail money was
raised for said to get him out on bail, His manager,
Micah McLaren, flew to New York and got involved with that.
The police also involved Virus rather expensive lawyer called James Murberg,
and I had wondered for years when I was doing
my research, I thought, I wonder who could afford to

(06:57):
hire James may Murberg and paid the fifty thousand dollars bail.
So I presumed it was the record label, because you know,
the Pistols were earning a lot of money for urging
neckwords at that time, Richard Branson's label. I did some
digging and I managed to get through to a friend
of Richard Branson's who ultimately asked a few questions to

(07:19):
Richard Funny, and I said, you know, I got to
be honest about this. I'm presuming it's you that paid
the bail money and also hired James Murdberg. He said no,
he said, I'm okay to tell you now, because it's
thirty years ago. He said at the time he didn't
want his name mentioning in the press anywhere. But the
guy who stood no money and also hired James Murdberg

(07:40):
was Mick Jagger really, because Mick Jagger thought that said
had been trapped like a scapegirl because of his nickname.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Okay, that's interesting, now, what about that? Because I'm sure
you interviewed a lot of their friends and associates, the
hangers on and the you know, the local characters and
neighbors and stuff like that. What was gossip? What was
the rumors going on?

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Rumor among most of the rock fraternity, and most rock
and roll fraternity was that they thought they were so
loved that they couldn't see Sid, Sabby Nancy to death
or even once. You know. I spoke to a few
guys who lived quite close by them, they made of Ail,
who were very good friends there, some of whom now
are very respected people in the entertainment industry in England.
And I said to them, did you know, what did

(08:21):
you think when you first got the news from American
and Nancy were dead? And they said, we always thought
Nancy would die early, because she almost had the death wish.
She was almost said to people she would probably die early,
but we never thought Sid would do it because they
were well. One of my closer friends in knew Sid
rather well, said to me to be online. He said,

(08:43):
the truth of the matter is quite simple, he said,
Without Nancy, Sid couldn't really cope. Sid just found the
world too big and dark a place, and she was
almost like he's guide. So why would you take away
the one person who's propping your life up.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Hmm, and also took it was a crime and you
know you're kind of packing. You call the ambulance right away,
you don't go to sleep, you know, and pass that
and call them up seven two hours later. Yeah, that's
very interesting.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
Now, Malcolm McLaren said to me, the Pistols manager, because
mocom and I have good friends before his death, and
whatcan said to me. You know, this may be too
romantic a way of putting it, he said, but the
reality of fid Van concerned is they were a modern
day Romeo and Juwiet, which could well be that, you know,
that could well be the best analogy of it that

(09:28):
there is, you know, looking into what happened later, because
in the next few months that Sid survived Nancy and
we're only talking from October seventy eight to February seventy nine,
so what four or five months, Everyone who knew him said,
though the only thing he was talking about was dying
and being with Nancy. You know, he tried to commit

(09:49):
suicide once before he went back into prison. He tried
to commit suicide again in prison, and then he overdosed
a minute They got that he got released a certain.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Time, and you believe the overdose was I think once.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
It was dead, I think he did not want to
be on this planet anymore, you.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Know, And so you believe that the overdose was intentional.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
I believe it was. Yeah, definitely, because at the time,
in early in late seventy eight, the heroine on the
streets in New York been quite bad. It had been
chopped up with all kinds of stuff and really quite impure.
But over Christmas there was a lot of major rock
and roll bands due to where New York and play
in New York in thearly part of seventy nine, so
somebody must have known they'd be bringing big money with them,

(10:31):
and a lot of them would want to buy the
more pure end of the drugs if you like, you know.
So by January February nineteen seventy nine, I did some
beginning again with the police department for my book and
then hopefully for the film, and it was said that
the heroine on the streets in New York by late
January seventeen nine was probably the most period have been
in about forty years. It was about ninety seven per

(10:52):
cure because they were expecting big customers through the city
in the next couple of months, and they presumed the
best thing to do is get as pure as possible.
So I think with that knowledge, simplely just took as
big a dose as possible, knowing for well, hey wouldn't
wake up, and.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
You don't think the chance of perhaps he was murdered
too he was giving a hot shot.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Well, I mean, there's there are people who believe that
I think should have been doing heroin too long to
realize that that, you know, to have realized that, you know,
if the heroin was now suddenly that pure in a
matter of weeks, then may be more likely that, you know,
because he had odd earlier in the day on the
second of February that they got him. They walked him up,

(11:36):
they walked him around the wee bit, and he was
fat chatting with people, and apparently he then start getting
quite excited about some of the things Malcolm had been
telling him about potentially playing Las Vegas and getting bail
and then getting released to get that guilty verdict, to
maybe go home and make a new album. And he
got quite excited about all that, and then apparently went
to bed later in the evening and that's when he

(11:58):
took the second shot, and it was the second shot
that killed him.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Now, what about when you do this kind of people,
you know the Chelsea Hotels, which at that time you
know street people and drug deals and drug addicts. If
someone who was associated with them suddenly had a big
bought of cash a couple of days later, this would
be known to the group. Was there anybody a suspect
other than said?

Speaker 1 (12:22):
There was other people that were on file. There was.
One of the detectives told me that they were looking
to interview six people, but because of course, Sid died
so soon while the preparation was still being made for
the trial. I know for a fact because the police
told me face to face that those six people weren't
even pulled into questioning, much less interviewed. So think the

(12:43):
whole thing just happened a bit too quickly. Now. I
later checked with my own uncle, who was a retired
detective in England, and I said, if you're a mer
case that been October and you knew you were going
to trial early New year, how fast would you interview
potential suspect? So my uncle said, again, depends completely on
the situation, he said, but maybe not until February or March,

(13:06):
he said, because normally you get all your ducks in
a row and then you do your interview, you know.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
And what about like his family. I know you did
the book with his mother.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
It wasn't it. Yes, Yeah, he didn't know his father.
His father disappeared he was about four or five years old,
and even to this day in twenty eighteen, not none
of us have been involved with since leg you see us.
It's a state or background of any clue whether his
father is still alive or dead. We don't know that.
We presume he's probably dead, but we don't know that.

(13:37):
I mean, he could still be live and be in
his late seventies, you know, early eighties, So that's that's something.
But yes, Sid's mother contacted me when I was working
for the UK Music Press, had asked me. She read
an article that I had written about sex Pistol and
she thought my writing was good and she basically said,

(13:57):
would you be interested in writing a book on my son?
And that's how that came about.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, And what about Nancy's family.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
I've only ever spoken to Nancy's family on a telephone twice,
once to sister, very very briefly maybe ten words, and
once to her mother and maybe in for no more
than five or ten minutes. And basically that's that. I mean,
I read the book. Her mother wrote an incredibly good book,
cobn It's Covin I Don't Want to Live This Life

(14:28):
by Debra Spongent, and it's a great book, you know,
So I would definitely recommend it to anybody who wants
to read that kind of sort of tragic true story.
And the oarty is, yeah, that was it. They didn't
really get too involved in my book, and me and
Ann didn't get too involved in their books. So they're
two very separate stories about different fives of the relationship, you.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Know, and responding. She's passings now, right, she's dead now I.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Think she is. Yes, I don't know, but I know
Anne Besley, Sid's mother is dead. She died in Mainty
six Debra Sponge and I believe it is now gone.
So yeah, I think there's very few people from the
families I know from Sid family, there's only one cousin
left alive now and that's that's of various antis and
relations and you know, whatever it may be, but there's

(15:15):
just one cousin he live now in sid family and
he lives in He lives in the United Kingdom.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Did Nancy have a sister that was also in New
York that was around the same scene.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Nancy had a sister and a brother. But you see,
Nancy was from a very respectable Jewish American upper class family.
She was just a wild child who went off the rails.
So what you have to understand is, yes, Nancy did
have siblings, but the siblings did remarkably better than Nancy.
I mean, her brother was a lawyer on Wall Street

(15:47):
the last time I knew anything about it, and her
sister is a television chef in New York.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Really, okay, that's interesting. Yeah, Now she.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Rather ironically, this was a couple of friends of mine
who found this almost too funny for words. But rather ironically,
Nancy's Sistery put out a cookbook a few years ago
and on the cover she's dressed head to toe in
chef's white, but she's also carried a very big carving knife.
I don't know she's all the irony and that I

(16:22):
have no idea at all, but we certainly did.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
Oh my goodness. Now, so now with the NYPD, they
have this list as a cold case or a close case.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
It is listed now as a close case, close case.
So that's only really been since our since our movie,
since the movie came out, it has now become it
has now become one hundred percent cloth case. But for
a while before the movie, there are certain documents from
the time where it was listed as a cold case.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah, do you believe that you have movie influenced them
to claise.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
I was so. The only thing I've been told by MPD,
and this was around the time, is that one of
the serving officers, this would have been in two thousand
and eight two thousand and nine, rang me and we
had a short conversation. He basically said to me, Alan,
I think you've done as much as possible told the
case that really was as called as the grave. He said,
so all future documents will be stamped with the words

(17:23):
called case. Sorry, close case. So you never do know,
I mean, I don't know, I mean I don't know
about that. My theory is a much more simple one.
It almost is that you know kind of it is
what it is. You know that this guy's life was
not a particularly wonderful life, and you know we jappened

(17:44):
to be in a position where I was given more
information perhaps than most of the journeys at the time.
And so as far as I see it is if
I managed to do something for him that maybe nobody
else did, then I think he was He deserved at
least that much, given everything he'd been through.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
You know, Okay, we can find this all in the
book Who Killed Nancy? And basically to sum it up,
you think that they were they were so shaming with
a lot of drug dealers and street people and stuff
like that, staying at the Chelsea Home Hotel, which is
basically one if above homeless. At the time, it was
a real street type of hotel. I mean, yeah, yeah,
you know, I would be nervous.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
What I mean, I must say that things are next
to now the Chelsea they than they used to be.
I mean, you know, for the sake of anybody who's
listening this, listening to this and may want to, you know,
travel to New York and he's looking for a nice, clean, respectable,
mid price hotel, then please don't run away from the Chelsea.
Just down toward me, and he'd say, on this program

(18:40):
has come on leaps and bounds in the last thirty
five forty years completely. So you know, don't don't be
put off by what gets said on this show tonight,
because that would not be the Chelsea. That the Chelsea
we're talking about is not Chelsea like this now.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
You know, well even all these areas, like even the
Bowery and Bleaker down there, which at the time was
like a skid row and not today it's all they
got the start Bucks and the Gap. You know, it's
a whole different world.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
I mean, you know, I remember the first time I
went to New York and you know that the meatpacking
district down the bottom endigre this village was almost a
no go area. You know, the people who owned the
hotel Estadi and said don't go down there and after dark.
And if you're say, now it's got like you know,
Vivian Westwood and Van's trainer shops, you know.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
So yeah, well the real estate's so expensive. Remark yeah,
real estate's so expensive Manhattan there, every little square inch,
no matter what what it once was today is now
prime real estate. So is there anything that we left
down under cidt anty cases that I haven't asked you
that you want the audience to know about.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
I don't think really. I mean, you know, if they
want to watch the movie, it's out there. It's called
Who Killed Nancy? And also there's a book out there
that I wrote called Sid Vicious No One Is Innocent,
which you know, both of them freely available through Amazon.
And if you know, if they want to watch them,
then you know, I recommend they had to watch want
or read the other because they certainly have all the
information in there, you.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Know, gotcha? Okay, Sid Vicious No One Is Innocent and
the other and the video is called the movie is
called Who Killed Nancy? Now tell us about this? Fifty
years ago today? The Beatles, Sergent Pepper and Beyond.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
I'd always been a mad Beatles fan, I mean, I
mainly oddly enough, I've done quite a lot of work
with punk rock bands like The Sex Distools, But you
know that is a little bit of a strange phenomenon
for me, because I'm mainly a rock fan. I've been
a metal fan all my life. I mean, I'm covered
in tattoos to prove it. And anyone who's been near

(20:38):
my Facebook a Twitter account will know that ninety percent
of time I'm writing about Motley Crue or metallic cur
I am made, there's something like that. The reality is
that there's a certain amount of stuff that came my
way because of the fact that I was working for
a record label and that a lot of the bands

(20:59):
I was working with appened to pop rock bands, but
beat down all inside. Also, there's always been this massive
amount of affection for the beat peoples, you know, as
a massive Beatle fan from being a kid, and I love.
My favorite Beatles album of all time ever, without doubt,
is almost certainly the album Sergeant Pepper and myself and

(21:23):
the film crew, the team I worked with basically they
were in America, the whole team, or in America in
twenty sixteen earlier part of January February doing a document
issue for a US TV stage and it wasn't even
a cinematic VD, it was just the US television And

(21:46):
when we got to the end of it, I said,
the tea guys, Serge and Pepper album is fifty years
old in twenty seventeen, and I like to do something
about that, you know, in the in the next few
months so that we can release it in twenty seventeen.
So we did a bit of dig in look for
some really good beat of footage. We knew quite a

(22:08):
few people who worked with them for the Beatles over
the years, so we kept that moving and to cut
a long story short, we basically came back to England
in the early summer of twenty sixteen, wrapped up the
project we were doing when and then started to work
on this film that became known as it was fifty
years ago to deat and you know, it was funny.

(22:32):
It was great fun because a lot of people we
worked with are Marris said, Keith baber More were on
probably outside John Pumarty, you know, and he was the
researcher on their official document that he was a polog
year that ten twelve years ago. So we made this

(22:55):
and we got into cinemas last year and I know
from countries it's still opening in Jerry this year. But
it's done. It's done really really well. If he had
a good run at the Sins, had a good run
on Netflix and if also having a sale figure on
DVD and blue rays, so I think we did what
was out to do.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
Sent me some clips and there's a lot of footage
on there. The DNA. I'm a big Beatles fan. There's
a lot of footage in there I've never seen before,
you know.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
I mean we were we went now, between me and
a few of them of the team, we were awful.
De Rays and I sat and we just kept digging
and digging, and we saw that angle. I've not seen
that before. Or Keith for Robin mcgo well, I've never
seen that before. Or Alex I produced for Goal, I
haven't seen that before. And eventually we came to realize

(23:44):
if we never seen it, there's a third chance that
the Western world hasn't seen it because we owned I know,
I think I've got nineteen shelves of Beatle DVDs and
blue rays. So I thought, I'm just going to take
a risk and say, you know, that's how it would be,
you know, And so we just licensed everything we possibly
care held and went from there. You know.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
So it comes pretty much like the whole trip to
the United States around the time that they were having
that problem with when we said that they were bigger
than Jesus, right.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah. It basically Ron Howard had made a film the
year before about the Beatles two in Years, eight days
a week. It was very successful, but Ron's film ended
did when the Beatle stopped touring. So what I did
was kind of, if you like, pick up the bat
and we did our film when the Beatles stopped touring,
and then we went through the year of suberceialed Tenny Leane, Oklamo, LSD,

(24:40):
Brian Epstein's death to Mary Sheet of Apple, and this
massive album called Flood Pepper.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
You know, hey, what do you make of these people
who say that the replacement?

Speaker 1 (24:59):
I mean, it's but it's it's I think that's all
it is. It's just a good story, you know. I
think when any bands become really, really big or as
big as as big as the Beatles did, ultimately you
know you're going to get things like that happening. The
Police Dead myth is fallacy. If you ever go to
a Beatle's convention, and there's many of them around within

(25:21):
the UK, America, Japan to name, but a few side
rooms somewhere, we're all weekend some of a slide show,
and it means all the cold clues of the Paul
is Dead mystery, and I beg of you go and
see it, because it is. It is amazing it. Whoever
came up with it must have had a lot of
free time on their hands. Because by the time you
finish watching it, it almost becomes feasible. You almost think, wow,

(25:45):
this is pretty cool, you know, and they did a
good job. But I don't there's no reality, and it's
just a good it's a good little man made myth
around the Beatles, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
You know, it's kind of funny because you're right, when're
still watching these videos and stuff like that is very
and you get caught up in it. And I've done
quite a few shows on it, and I had May
Pang on the show one time and I asked her,
I said, you know, what do you think about this theory?

Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (26:07):
I says, well, what do you think about you know,
the Paul was dead? And she says, oh, no, no, no,
I've been in the same room with both of them,
and I know he's not dead.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
So that's added to that.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
That's editing May in New York in October twenty fourteen.
And she's good fun, she's really cool.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
Oh yeah. I loved her as a guest, But that
kind of added to the whole myth because she says, oh, no,
I've been in the room with both of them. Yeah,
but she was probably talking about yes, she was probably
talking about John and Paul. Oh yeah, oh yeah, She's.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Got some great she has got some great photographs. So
she brought out the book of all that snapshots she
took for that eighteen month period, the last weekend that
she was actually with John, and you know, there's some
good stuff there, definitely. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
Well, and what else have you worked on? Different books
and stuff? Can you mentioned off the air, like eighteen
books or something, right?

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah? Sixteen books and thirteen movies. Yeah, which I always
say is not bad for a dyslexic kid, you know,
I don't know. I mean I always heard this dream
from being quite young that I wanted to do something
a bit different because I largely a cotton town, you know,

(27:31):
and big on trade and the industry. By the time
I left school, the British government had closed down most
of the cotton mills. So if you were now people
who are going to follow their grandfather and their father
into a job, now I had no choice of a job.
I wasn't one of those anyway, But I'd always been

(27:51):
a huge rock and roll fan, and I felt, well,
if I'm going to do anything in our may as
well do something that's going to be a wee bit different.
And so I'm in a rock and roll fan long
before my beginning of my secondary school. So I basically
started my own fans and that letter me working with
a lot of local bands, promoting gigs, being famous band

(28:14):
to the town. And the next thing, you know, I'm
moving down to London and case officer and the rest,
as they say, is history. It's just been a whoad
win since then. That's nearly thirty years ago.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
One time ago is a peace officer. You know what
I'm saying, Press off, press press officer, Okay, sure, So yeah, So.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
It was fun. You know, it's been a fun roller
coast and I'm enjoying it. You know, it's my birthday
next week, and you know, I have no intention of
stopping just yet. We're already planning lots more things that
we're quite excited about wanting to do. So it's going
to be fun. I think it's going to be. It's
going to continue for a while, and that's great, you know.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
And but you've never been in a band yourself. It's
always been writing about and promoting things like that.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
I was in a band be back in black Man
in the very early days, and I also worked with
all of other bands in the town. I think I
became I think I was wise enough show we stay
to understand from a very early age that perhaps the
best thing in the world need to do. You know.
They say that in the television world, they say, always

(29:26):
decide which side of the camera you is going to
be on. And I decided very early on that I
was going to be on the other side of the
camera and not on the film side.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
I got you now now in London on July twelfth,
you have something coming up at the Regent Street Cinema.
How about that?

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, we got a few years ago, now, I did
a documentary with the Status Quote, the British rock and
roll band, and the documentary was called Hello Quote. It
was the first ever big screen official documentary on Status Quote.

(30:05):
We did it, we put it out and it was
a big success. You know. But most people have seen
the down version, which was shown by British Television. So
the version that we did for the DVD, the Blue
and the First Cinema on was two hours and thirty
seven minutes long, and the version that the TV has
shown over the years is about ninety minutes long. So

(30:27):
I was approached by the Regent Street Cinema, which is
one of the oldest cinemas. In fact, the place is
called the birthplace of British cinema because I think the
oldest cinema London, England. It's just off Oxford Circus. It's
a beautiful cinema. I've done before and they kept us

(30:48):
and said out in the full length version back on
to the screen for one night only. So we looked
at options and what we could have done with it,
and we came up with the eye idea that the
best time to do would be duly because it's summer
time and people may want to go, you know, go
out for the night or meet up with their friends
and stuff. So we basically just dedkay, so now we're

(31:12):
going to do it. So we booked the place. We
put the cinema tickets on sale, I think about two
weeks ago, and as far as I'm told for my
friends down about the cinema, the thing is it's selling
very well. It's good.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
And Status Quo is a band. I've never heard of them.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
They're a bit tissue, they're a bit rock and roll band,
yet they're huge in England.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Okay, I'm let you and what happened, what's coming up next?

Speaker 1 (31:48):
I'm afraid I can't of scenarios where it contracts day
at the moment, so I can't really say what it is,
although we just say that we're planning two or three
really exciting things as we speak.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Okay, what's that tops?

Speaker 1 (32:02):
It's it's not something I'm allowed to talk about just yet, No,
but it is. It is going to be fun. And
obviously if people want to look at my Facebook account
Lergy Parker or my Twitter account Alergy Parker, everything will
be announcing the lost of time.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
I basically okay, great, So can you sum up?

Speaker 1 (32:19):
You know?

Speaker 2 (32:20):
How do you want to leave you? Bys?

Speaker 1 (32:23):
Well? You know, I just like I say that the
way I look at it, we're enjoying what we're doing.
We're having fun doing it, and we love it. I
want to continue doing it for some time, so I guess,
you know, we'll just continue doing what we do. I
don't know if I'll have to write another book again,
because I think after sixteen I figrabbed it enough. But
certainly film wise, I want to continue making films for

(32:44):
many years to come.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
You know, excellent, And how can people get in touch you?
You got to Facebook Alergaeper or Twitter Alergie Parker.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
That's it. Facebook, Alergie Parker, Twitter Alogie Parker. I'm normally
active on both of them on a daily basis. Sometimes
it's only for about twenty minutes. Times it's for a
few hours. So, you know, you want to ask me
a question, you might want to you know, come and
just take a look at what it is we do.
We're constantly updatedacher I beyond there so and everything that
we do, and so yeah, that's the easiest way to

(33:13):
find out what we're about.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
Really again, let me ask this. When I was looking
up on Amazon and I had the Alan G. Parker who
killed Nancy came up right away, but that was pretty
much it. Should we also look for Alan Parker without
the G.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
It shouldn't be pretty much it because I'm just oddly
enough for a friend of mine. I was actually on
Amazon earlier and about twelve of me films came up
quite quickly. So I don't know, but realistically speaking, it
should be quite easy to get my films up. But
if not, as I say, if you go onto the
Twitter account or the Facebook account, you will see that

(33:47):
there is what can I say there's many sort of
things going on there, and you'll see all the various
titles and the links, and then you'll be able to
look at the other things whenever you want to. Okay,
and we find them from there, you know.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Yeah, that must be my mistake. Then it might must
have been my I must have been distracted or but
part Alan GE Parker, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Okay, Hey, thanks man, thanks for having me. Thank you
very much.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
By Okay, So then we had Alan G. Parker who
killed Nancy, and then we also talked about it is
a film about the Beatles. The Beatles, it was fifty
years ago today. Uh, the Sergeant Pepper and beyond. You know,
I used to hang out down there right right next
to CBGB's because I was one of you. He's down
there in a bleaker street. An artist and people like

(34:48):
that used to congregate there as well. Once again, if
you're here in the Vegas area today, he still got time. Okay,
there's gonna be a big event tonight Nina Turner and
I should be getting an interview with Nina Turner's and
I want to get there too. It's not guaranteed, but
we're plugged in enough. I should be able to get

(35:08):
a little interview with her. Nina Turner is as a
president of Our Revolution, which is the Bernie Sanders campaign.
A pack and stuff like that took over for Bernie
Sanders campaign and he kept going the r Revolution movement
and she's a president of it. And tonight at nine
to twelve West Owens Avenue, Las Vegas, Nevada, at six pm,

(35:32):
they're gonna have food. It's gonna be tacos here. There's
gonna be music this group called the Owls Local Group.
There's gonna be speakers, local speakers and stuff like that.
Amy Valela will be there. And if let's go back
and look in the archives my interviews with Amy Valella.
Fascinating woman. She's running for a congress here in CD

(35:52):
four and it looks like she's gonna win.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
And all.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Disclosure, full disclosure. My daughter is volunteering for the campaign
over there. She does opposition research, she helps with the
debate stuff like that. So she's over there volunteering and
so that's full disclosure there. Okay, my daughter's involved in
the campaign. By the way, we just found on to
the Victoria is number one PF debate.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
What is that?

Speaker 2 (36:16):
Cool? She's like the number one PF debater in the
whole state. Just found a Victis is female public form debater,
number one female public form of debater in the state
of Nevada. Okay, and next year she'll be number one
out of both men and women. Okay. She's only in
high school. She's a junior in high school. And we're
gonna be also too. We're gonna be promoting a gofundmeme

(36:37):
for the the debate team to go to Nationals. The
people on her team who made it to Nationals. We'd
be promoting a little good fund me. I'm gonna be
interviewing her and some of her debate team code debaters.
You don't want her team over there in the near future,
we're gonna have in them on to talk about their
efforts to get to nationals. And then VIC two, she's

(36:58):
going to the World School Nationals down in Florida too.
So you on debate stuff's going very very up to
it now. If you like today's show, be sure and
check out opper Report dot com. Okay, because we're toward
the end of the month. Today's twenty six. We're getting
toward the end of the month and we're low on
funds in order to pay for Spreaker and the coxcable

(37:19):
bill with the Internet and all that's not paid up
this month yet either, and then their Skype and then
there's a speaker Skype, and there's a couple of little
things too that we have to pay for it to
keep the bills going here. So we'll go offering you
a discount in the membership section with always great new
content up there in our member section. If you contact

(37:43):
me at Opperaman Report at gmail dot com, we'll give
you a deal. Okay, thirteen months for sixty bucks. And
I only need like four new memberships to get us
through the hump this month and to get us past
to cover these bills the cables, you know, and the
cable Internet that kind of stuff like that. It's about
two hundred bucks you figure, So four membership sixty bucks

(38:06):
each the team one. It's a good deal. We can
keep on the air front of the one. Okay, and
I forget get the tea dot com. I'll get sponsored there.
Ronnie just sent us some new tea and like I've
been saying, I've been working out on this team now
at least forty days I've been doing the Daniel Fest.
So no alcohol, no coffee, no sugar, no meat, no fish,

(38:27):
which I'm a vegan anyway, so all that's no, that's fine,
it's no problem. But working out every day, swimming. I
swim a half mile this morning. As soon as the
show's over, I'm gonna go on a bike ride. And
I think I owe all to get the tea dot
Com Life Change Tea. Coming up after this break, we
have Ramona Africa. This is a third or fourth time
back on the show. She what does she call uself?
The Minister of Information or public information officer for the

(38:51):
Group Move. You might remember the Group Move back in
Philadelphia back in the eighties. There were grassroots movement there,
like in a commune, like a family living all together.
I got this here, so she describes herself. Come on,
Minister Communication for Move organization. And she's the last survivor.

(39:14):
When the police were bombing their home and shooting at
them through the windows and hitting them with water cannons,
she was able to escape with a little boy at
the time named Bertie. This is in nineteen eighty five
and Birdie has passed on since then. In a hot
tub incident he had a hot tub accident, think a

(39:34):
heart attack on a hot tub, something of that nature,
and he passed away. So now Ramona is the last
survivor who's free, but the members of move are still
in prison to this day from the first attack on
their first home. I believe it was on o Sage Avenue.
We're going to be hearing all these details after this
break coming up with it when we have Romona Africa
come on the show and so is women who were

(39:57):
there at the first attack that the police admit that
the prosecutor admit never fired a gun, never did anything
to assault anybody, and never tried to harm anybody. They
were in a basement as the basement was filling up
with water. They got up on tables and they had
to hold their babies over their head as they were
being shot at to prevent their babies from drowning in

(40:18):
this flooded basement from the water cannons attacking their home.
So these women who never hurt anybody, I never harmed anyone,
never picked up a gun, never fired a gun, never
even gave a finger a dirty finger, stuck their tongues
out at the police. I've been in prison since nineteen
eighty five, and they have an opportunity of parole coming up.
So we're going to try and motivate people to contact

(40:38):
the parole board on their behalf and motivate and urge
parole board to let them get out of there and
live out their last years in peace and freedom.

Speaker 4 (40:51):
Right and now a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 6 (43:21):
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(43:42):
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Speaker 2 (44:07):
Remember all these shows on a WAKE are brought to
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Speaker 7 (45:02):
We all have questions, did he do it?

Speaker 3 (45:04):
Or did he not?

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We all have opinions, but do we really know the truth.
New evidence will now be presented and the ultimate answers
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(45:26):
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Speaker 8 (46:26):
We're in for an in depth discussion of conspiracy theories,
strategy of New World Order resistance, hi profile court cases
in the news, and interviews with expert guests and authors
on these topics and more. It's the Opperman Report, and
now here is an investigator Ed Opperman.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Okay, welcome back to The Opperman Report. I'm your host,
Private investigator Ed Opperman. The show is brought to you
by Getthtea dot com. Check out Life Change Tea. Let's
see here. I'm bringing on my next guest here, Romona Africa.
Let's remember how to do this. Let's got to add
to this call. I put the number up there, but
then it doesn't let me call it does it? And
I say, oh, so it's not working. Let's try this.

(47:14):
I'll go over here to the dal pad over here,
go here on traiders and put the number on up.
That's a new k from our last guest we just
had on Alan G. Parker. Oh okay here, we want
to try to see you and can get on the
phone and we go a dallast I might lose Danny.
I's see what happens.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
O good?

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Uh yeah, add to group call. Okay, here we go.
Romona Africa from Move Down calling up right now. She's
in Philadelphia. Still in Philadelphia all these years nineteen eighty five.
Everybody talks about Waco, but they he talks about the
Ramona Africa from Hi, Ramona, Yeah, Hi, it's at Operaman.

(47:57):
You're alive on the air on the opera important.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
Okay, I want to move.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
How are you America? Tell everybody who is Romona Africa.

Speaker 3 (48:07):
Ramona Africa is the Minister of Communicatation for the Move Organization.
The only adult survivor May nineteen eighty five bombing and
murder of my MOVE family. I am a representative of
the International Concern Family and Friends Famumia Abu Jamal. I

(48:34):
am most importantly a revolutionary disciple of John Africa, the
founder of the Move organization.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
And why don't you tell people what what what is move?

Speaker 3 (48:49):
Move is a revolutionary organization founded by John Africa UH
and the foundation of John Africa's teaching and MOVES belief
is the all importance of life, life being not a priority,
but the priority and towards that end. What a lot

(49:14):
of people don't know is that our first demonstrations and
protests were at the Philadelphia Zoo in our position to
the enslavement and abuse of animal life. We had protests
and demonstrations against chemical companies that poison the environment, like

(49:39):
Dow Chemical and DuPont Chemical. We held demonstrations at the
reservoir where Philadelphia's drinking water come from comes from because
it was being poisoned by industry. And we had protests

(49:59):
that unsafe boarding homes for the elderly where the elderly
were being physically and emotionally abused. This is what MOVES
started out doing and only got involved with police and

(50:19):
officials when they started attacking MOVE people at our peaceful
demonstrations and trying to say that we could not have
our protests, could not have our peaceful protests. You know
that MOVE confronted them, like, what are you talking about?

(50:40):
Don't you tell the world that in America you have
freedom of speech, freedom to protests. You know, what does
it say except for the MOVE organization.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Did you see they just had a this neo Nazis
KKK had a rally down there. I think it was
in Georgia, some small town in Georgia and four hundred
and there was only forty of these Nazis, but four
hundred heavily armed police with rifles. We're holding the Antifa,
the anti fascist protesters again, only about thirty of them,

(51:15):
were holding them at rifle point during their protest. Did
you see that?

Speaker 3 (51:21):
No? I didn't, I didn't. You're saying that the police
held at rifle point these KKK protesters.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
Well, the people protesting against the KKK. The KKK, Yeah,
the KKK were allowed to do whatever they want, and
they actually tackled and arrested some people for having a
benzanas over their face, this was one of their but
they were holding pointing rifles. Protests were protesting with their
hands up and while the police were holding rifles at them.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
It's yeah, well, surprise, surprise. I mean that's America. Yeah,
I mean, what do you think America was founded on?
I mean they talk about the Declaration of Independence and
the Constitution where it says we hold these truths to
be self evident, that all men aren't created equal and

(52:15):
now by their creator, with certain and alienable rights. Who
were they talking about. They weren't talking about the Africans
that they brought here and change. They weren't talking about
the indigenous people that they slaughtered into virtual exchange. They
weren't talking about women. You know, they weren't even talking

(52:37):
about white men that didn't own land. So you know,
who were they talking about? And what did they really
stand for? What were they really establishing here?

Speaker 2 (52:53):
So people who have this perception that MOVE was this radical,
violent group of described what your day to day life
was in your first home there that before the first attack.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
Taking care of animals, you know, MOVE people would see
and water animals. People complained that we had a lot
of dogs. You know, yes, we had a number of dogs.
But where did those dogs come from? They came from

(53:29):
college students going home for the summer and abandoning those dogs,
leaving them locked in apartments. You know. Another dog Move
rescued from the Schoolkill river where somebody threw the dog
into the river and Move rescued him. He was called

(53:52):
river Dog. You know. This is where we got our dogs.
We found homes for some dogs, but we still had
quite a few dogs, yes we did, you know. So
our work was to take care of those dogs. We
raised money through a car wash, you know, a lucrative

(54:17):
car wash that we had because people appreciated the work
that Move was doing and continues to do, and they
would give us generous donations for us washing their cars.
People would bring their cars from all over Philadelphia for
a Move to watch their cars and give us, you know,

(54:39):
like I said, generous donations. So we had children to
take care of, and for those who don't know, we
live communally, so the children were always under moves care,
not in daycare or you know anything like that. Moved

(55:01):
people took care of Move children. They were always with us.
We exercised and worked out daily, ran you know, that
was our day along with you know, protests that we
organized and confronting then mayor Frank Rizzo, you know, who

(55:27):
was a vicious racist cop that moved up to police
permissioner and who eventually made mayor got elected mayor.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
And did you how about did move believe in TV sets?
Did you have TV sets at home?

Speaker 3 (55:46):
Uh? No, not back then? At some time we did,
but never really had time to engage in it once
in a while, you know, and how many members of
that was that really our priority? You know, our priority
was waking people up to what this system is doing

(56:11):
and was doing back then it continues to do to
all life, not just people, but all life, humans, animals,
marine life, that air, the water, the soil that feeds us,
all life, all life. And that is what occupied you know,

(56:36):
our time, that is.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
Our work now was move of vegetarian or vegan.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
John Africa taught us that no humans are not coordinated
to eat meat. You know, if you could catch a
cow and kill it, you know, yourself, take it down
without guns and traps and everything that gives you an

(57:08):
obviously unfair advantage over the animal. If you can catch
a fish without a spear, a ride, a hook and
all of that like a bear catches his salmon, then
go for it. If you can catch a chicken and

(57:31):
take it down and eat it, go for it. But
we're not coordinated for that. Mother Nature has every species
of life coordinated for their diet. I mean, elephants are huge,
but they don't eat meat. They eat herbs and grass

(57:53):
and stuff like that. You know, we're all coordinated for
our diet. The diet that John Africa explain to us
is a raw food diet. Foods, vegetables, nuts, you know,
things like that, and raw because that is the way

(58:17):
we are supposed to eat. No other species of life
cooks their food, not one.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
What about milk and cheese, dairy, it's.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
I mean, it's processed. It's not wrong.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
No other species of life, the cow or a goat
or any other species of life steals human's milk. Only
humans take milk from the cows and starve the baby cow.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
You know, since the last time we've talked, I've become
a vegan. I'm vegan now. I know milk, no cheese,
no meat. And I tell you it changes, it changes
the way you think. It changes your life.

Speaker 3 (59:04):
Yeah, yes, it's a big difference.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
And I think more people would just detox from that meat.
It would just change their thinking in so many ways. Yeah,
so you've been vegan the nwier than your whole life,
then since your whole life, then probably no.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
I didn't come to move till I was twenty three
going on twenty four, almost twenty four. And the thing is,
like I said, the raw food diet that Jian Africa
encourages always did encourage, and it's not something that you
can just jump into. You know, you have to work

(59:47):
at it, work for it. But you know the most
important thing that Jian Africa told Move, taught Move people
encouraged in people both move and non move, is that
the true revolution starts with self. It starts with how

(01:00:12):
you think and removing yourself from a system that has
never done anything good or right for you or any life,
any living thing. You know. I mean, okay, you still

(01:00:33):
eat me, still eat dairy or whatever. But if you're
thinking along the lines that this system is wrong and
have wrong life and exploits and enslaves living beings and
has never done anything good or right or in life's interest,

(01:00:58):
if you're thinking like that and moving in that direction,
that's what's important that's what's important.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Are there any books written by or about John Africa
or recordings of his teachings.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Well, there is what's called the Guidelines authored by John Africa.
And in the very early days of MOVE, we used
to give out MOVE Guidelines sections because that's how I
was written in sections on every aspect of life that

(01:01:40):
you can think of. And that was fine initially, but
then people start taking the guidelines and the wisdom of
Giant in Africa and exploiting and prostituting them, never giving

(01:02:00):
credit to the source of wisdom that they were reading
and talking about. So, you know, we had to stop
giving it out like that. We still will give people
excerpts and quotes some that, you know, MOVE guidelines from
the writing John Africa, but we don't give out guidelines

(01:02:26):
like we used to in the very early days of MO.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
And what about recordings of teachings or speeches of John Africa, Yeah,
do they exist.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
No, we don't. We don't have recordings of John Africa.
John Africa always stayed in the background. Even after he
worked the federal government in Federal Court in nineteen eighty one,

(01:02:58):
all the media was after him and he told him
talk to my family. Talk to the Move nine, you know,
who are still in prison till this day forty years.
They've been in prison this year and that's what you know.

(01:03:19):
John Africa told all the I mean countless news media
that was after him and wanted him, you know, to speak,
wanting to do interviews with him. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
How many how many move members are in prison right now?

Speaker 3 (01:03:40):
Well, it's just the Move nine right now. Two of
my family members have died been killed in prison. Our
sister Merle Africa wanted the Move nine, was killed in
prison in March of nineteen ninety after twenty years of

(01:04:02):
unjust imprisonment. And then our brother Phil Africa was murdered
in prison in January of twenty fifteen. And each time
the prison officials said they died of what they called
it natural causes, and we're saying, well, what does that mean?

(01:04:28):
You know, natural causes? What did they die from? You know,
talking about strong, healthy people died of natural causes. They
weren't seventy and eighty years old, you know. So yeah,
our focus right now is on the rest of the

(01:04:51):
Moon nine and my three sisters of the Move nine
go up for parole May fifteenth, and we're really focusing
a lot of energy and attention on them, because I mean,
this is absolutely ridiculous. A forty years they've been eligible

(01:05:16):
for parole ten years now ten years, and each time
the parole board denies my move family, and they say,
a refusal to take responsibility for your offenses and move
is like what offenses in both confrontations, both attacks on move,

(01:05:44):
hundreds of cops this system came out to our home
to kill. We didn't go to any politicians home, any
police commissioner, or any mayor's home attacking them. They came
out to our home and not to arrest, but to kill,

(01:06:07):
to kill, you know, And so our refusal to take
responsibility for our offenses? What offenses? You know? When are
these officials ever going to take responsibility for their offenses against.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
Not just moves or people, but all.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
Life, the life that they slaughter in mass like minks,
simply to get their coats, to put them on ibacks,
Like the minx coat is supposed to be on ibacks
and looks better on ibacks than it does on the
minx back that Mother Nature put them on. You know,

(01:07:01):
the air that they poison, the water that they pollute,
you know, the wholesale slaughter of the indigenous people in
this country, the people that are shot down, murdered daily
by cops, and the cops never held accountable, never helped countable.

(01:07:26):
When are they going to take responsibility for their offenses.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Yeah, we have the highest prison population of any country
and percentage wise of any country on the planet. These
three women who have a pearl hearing May fifteenth, what
caused them to wind up in what? Why are they
in prison in the first place? What caused them to
wind up in prison?

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
Because on August eight of nineteen seventy eight, police officials
failed to kill them, and in their friendly to kill
Move people in our home, they ended up killing one
of their own through friendly fire. And let me make

(01:08:11):
it clear, Move didn't invent that term friendly fire. This
system invented it to describe when people working on the
same side ended up injuring or killing one of their comrades.
They called it friendly fire. So people should not be

(01:08:35):
so quick to dismiss it when Move says that because
we didn't invent that term. When they realized that they
had not killed Move on August eighth of seventy eight,
they used the death of officer James Ramp as the

(01:08:56):
excuse to put my family in prison for as long
as possible. I mean, it's very obvious and clear that
move did not kill James Ramp. He was shot with
a bullet traveling on a downward angle, and he was

(01:09:18):
standing up on street level and move people were in
the basement of our home. And there's no way they
could have shot him, no way physically possible they could
have shot him on a downward angle when they're sixty

(01:09:39):
below him, and they know that. Officials know that, then
they destroyed our home the scene of the crime. I mean,
since when do officials do that A cop was skilled,
you know, good and well that if they really believed

(01:10:01):
that Move people killed off Sir James Ramp, that they
would have preserved every bit of evidence to prove that. Finally, though,
the trial judge, Judge Edward Malman, who presided over the
trial alone without a jury, it was what's called a

(01:10:26):
bench trial. At the end of the trial when he
convicted my nine family members of one murder, one cop,
one bullet, he convicted all nine of murder, not one
murder and the eighth recipe eight conspiracy, but all nine

(01:10:50):
murder sentenced them to thirty year minimums and one hundred
year maximum sentences. He then went on a radio talk
show just like we're involved in right now, and when
Moumia Abu Jamal heard him, he called in and he

(01:11:12):
asked Judge Malmat one simple question, who killed Officer James Rant.
Judge Malmed responded, and I quote, he said, I haven't
the faintest I did. This is a man that's very educated.

(01:11:32):
He's a judge, well versed in the English language, knows
how to say what he wants to say, what he
intends to say. He didn't say, well, I don't know
which one, but I'm confident that one of them did it,
So I convicted all night. He didn't say that, He

(01:11:56):
said exactly what he meant. He didn't have the faintest idea. Now,
whether you're a judge or a juror, in order to
convict somebody of a charge, you are supposed to be

(01:12:17):
convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. Now, does I haven't the
faintest idea? Sound like certain beyond a reasonable doubt? No? No,
And our family sits in prison during their thirty year minimum,

(01:12:39):
which was in two thousand and eight, and then the
parole Board as insult to injury, you know, carries on
the injustice by refusing to parole my family, even though
the prisons that my family is in have recommended them

(01:13:01):
for parole, have recommended them over and over.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
Well, what can people do? Can they contact the parole board?
Do you have the phone number and the address?

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
What's the absolute?

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
Is it on your websit?

Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
You can go right to our website want to Move
O NA MV dot com and get the information to
contact them. People are writing, emailing, faxing, calling them, and
it's it's been putting pressure on them because after a

(01:13:38):
little while of people calling, the numbers no longer work.
Then we have to get the new number. But they're
feeling the pressure. They're feeling the pressure from not just
Pennsylvania but all over this country and our supporters in France, Germany, Stain,

(01:14:01):
the Netherlands, you know, you name it. People had been
on the case demanding parole for the move.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
Now, for people who are familiar with the story of
the row house that was burned down, the police dropped
the bomb on it. They burned sixty homes, can you
clarify the difference between the attack on August eight nineteen
seventy eight, which I believe was O Sage Avenue, and
that Freestyle.

Speaker 3 (01:14:26):
Seven eight was Pilton Village eighty five.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
The bombing was oh Sage okay, I always get that wrong, Okay.
But the first one, the August eighth, that that was
a free standing home. This was a detached home where
you were taking care of dogs. And their basic complain
about you then was that you didn't have curtains on
the windows and things like that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:47):
Yeah, and didn't have glass and some of the windows.
I mean, they claimed the issue was housing co violation, right,
and they led a campaign that we had to leave
our home. And this was like May May of seventy eight,

(01:15:10):
and they said they wanted us out by August first.
Now the thing is some move people, you know, were
coordinated to go on other activities, namely down in Richmond, Virginia.
They were not in the house, you know, on August eighth,

(01:15:34):
or or you know before that. But on August fifth,
Philadelphia cops went down to Richmond, Virginia and stormed our
house down there and brought our sisters back to Philadelphia. Now,
if the issue was the house and vacating the house,

(01:15:58):
why did they go down there to Richmond, Virginia and
bring them back. Their aim was to kill. That's what
people have a hard time wrapping their minds around and accepting.
In seventy eight, they came out there to exterminate, annihilate everybody,

(01:16:19):
every living being in our home. They failed to do it.
They were pissed and vengeful. So in eighty five when
they decided to come after us again, they were determined
to do what they failed to do in seventy eight,

(01:16:43):
which is why they came out there with Bob. They
didn't go send for it, they came out there with it.
And their excuse to people was that some neighbors had
complained about us. Of course, okay, some people did have

(01:17:05):
complaints about us, But since when does this government care
about black people complaining about their neighbors. Since when and
when is the solution to neighborhood complaints dropping a bomb,

(01:17:26):
igniting a fire, and refusing to put the fire out,
letting the fire burn, shooting at us as we tried
to get our children, our animals, and ourselves out of
that place. He in turn them to the point where
eleven eleven move people were literally burnt to death, including

(01:17:55):
five children.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
That's terrific, you know. And we just had some a
TV series about Waco and a similar attack, you know.
But there seems to be more sympathy though. And we
had Tibodu on the show too, he said, he mentioned,
you guys are friendly, but there seems to be more
sympathy though for the Waco people. And MOVE is just forgotten.

Speaker 3 (01:18:19):
Well people they want Move to be forgotten. But people
are in contact with us from all over this country.
We travel literally all over the world, have traveled all
over the world, and people had not forgotten. People still remember,

(01:18:43):
and we encourage people and direct people as to what
they can do, you know, in support of Move and
the Move nine. And people are very interested in the
teaching of John Africa. And I'll tell you one reason,

(01:19:05):
a main reason why is that they see all that
this system have come at us with, I mean, from
beating us up, locking us up, beating pregnant move wentmen
into miscarriage, killing our babies, a three week old baby

(01:19:28):
trampled to death by the police, you know, being sentenced
for thirty to one hundred years in jail.

Speaker 2 (01:19:39):
And hello, yeah, I'm here, hello, yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:19:46):
Yeah, you know, they see that and they see that
we have not gone away, that we are still fighting,
still strong, still committed to bringing this rotten system down,
exposing it to people, exposing what it's doing to all life,

(01:20:11):
and people respect that respect that you know, back in
the early days of Moves, especially directly after August of
seventy eight that attack, Frank Brizzle was like, so closes
the final chapter of Move wrong. Wrong. We are still here,

(01:20:38):
still fighting, still standing for what's right, and we had
not compromised one that I'll tell you. You know, in
the early days of Move, what John Africa had taught
us from the way we wear our hair naturally in locks.

(01:21:00):
People laughed at us, made fun of us, told us
do something with jair and blah blah blah. John Africa
told us, don't worry about it. Before long, you're going
to see a whole lot of people wearing their hair
like this in what's called rocks. What do you see

(01:21:21):
today at athletes, football players with their helmets on and
locks hanging out of them. You know, actors, actresses, singers, dancers,
all kind of celebrated people who wear their hair in locks.

(01:21:42):
Now you know.

Speaker 1 (01:21:45):
Raw food.

Speaker 3 (01:21:46):
You know, when John Africa explained to us about raw
food and encourage that. You know, people ain't crazy. You're
gonna make yourself sick eating raw food. You can't eat
food like that. You have to cook it. Your body
can't process it. You are to make your children sick
feeding them raw food. And people were going crazy. What

(01:22:10):
do you see today and from the West coast to
the East coast raw food restaurants and nutritioness etc. Who
spous the benefits the health of raw food, you know,

(01:22:35):
giving birth to babies naturally at home, you know, with
raw food and you know natural childbirth. John Africa told
us look to life. What other species of life cooks
their food? What other species of life other than humans

(01:22:56):
of course, goes to a hospital to have their babies,
you know, only humans today after people have criticized us
and ostracized us and said we were going to die,
we were going to kill our babies. You have to
go to the hospital and all of that. Here we

(01:23:19):
are years later, First with three generations of move people
giving birth to their babies at home, three generations. We
never had any catastrophes, you know, never had any catastrophes. Secondly,

(01:23:41):
what do you see in this system now? They encouraged
what they call natural child birth, you know everything, homeschooling.
They said that our kids would be stupid, that we
had to send our children. They tried to force us

(01:24:02):
through the courts to you know, send our children too,
this system's schools. What do you see today? So many
people homeschool their children today. It's a very accepted thing,
very widespread.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
I remember, yeah, the last time you were on the show, too,
you tell me about composting your waist. You would have composts.

Speaker 3 (01:24:28):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And that's.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
All the stuff that's fashionable now.

Speaker 3 (01:24:33):
We were lasty and dirty and throwing garbage in the
backyard and all kinds of stuff. Today they put a
cute little word called composting on it, and it's the
green thing to do.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:48):
Well, if you're wearing yoga pants, right, you got to
go to wear the yoga pants and the Starbucks coffee
and then it's cool. Now, let me ask you these
three women. If we have a May seventeenth, May fifteenth
parole hearing these three women right now, these women, everyone
acknowledges they've never picked up a weapon, They never threw
a rock, These women, am I right?

Speaker 3 (01:25:09):
Right? Yeah? Yeah. The only thing that cops could say
is that they were holding babies, and they never have
weapons charges.

Speaker 2 (01:25:21):
So these women, they were in the basement, the basement
was full of water. They were standing up on a
table holding their babies over their heads, so that the
babies went and drowned from the water. No, yeah, absolutely,
And you would think under normal circumstances, the people pushing
the water into the home would be the ones charged
them with the crime trying to drown babies.

Speaker 3 (01:25:42):
You would say. But in the May eighty five bombing, yeah,
that murdered eleven of our family members, not one single
official was ever charged with anything, held accountable in any

(01:26:05):
way at all. They're collecting their pensions and some still
employed in the police department. I mean, you know, this
is America, and what riles us is that our family,
our innocent family members, have been in jail forty years,

(01:26:29):
you know, being called murderers, cop killer by this system.
But meanwhile, the cops that murdered our family, murdered our babies.
They ain't call baby killers. They're not sitting in prison
next to our family during thirty two, one hundred years.

Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
You know, it really is amazing that there's never been
a pardon or anything that there's been pardons out there
for other political prisoners and stuff that there's never in
a case like this so outrageous where they burned sixty homes.

Speaker 3 (01:27:08):
Yeah, yeah, and murder people, actually murder people. I mean
they deliberately shot at us as we're trying to get
out of that blazing infrontout you know. But when you
mentioned pardon pardons, uh, with what goes with the term

(01:27:31):
pardon is an acknowledgement you did something wrong to be pardoned.

Speaker 2 (01:27:38):
Right right right?

Speaker 3 (01:27:40):
You know? Yeah? Now, were you didn't do anything wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:27:46):
When you escaped the attack and the bombing and the shooting.
Were you charged?

Speaker 1 (01:27:52):
Oh? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:27:53):
I did seven years and I was charged with everything
that they did. I was with arson, possession of explosives,
risking and causing a catastrophe, simple and aggravated assault, conspiracy,
I mean, you name it, everything that they did, Everything

(01:28:17):
that they did, I was charged with. And the thing
is they came out there with war warrants that charge
disorderly conduct, terroristic threats, you know, which is a lie.
But come on, words, you know if you even accept that.

(01:28:39):
And after the bombing happened and I went to court,
they had to dismissed those charges in the warrants that
they came out there with. They dismissed them as unfound founded,

(01:29:01):
you know, no basis to them. So you would think
that if the foundation of them being out there is invalid,
how could anything coming from that be valid?

Speaker 2 (01:29:19):
Yeah, you would think if the original charges, yeah, that
brought them to the to seeing the crime there were
later on overturned and then everything beyond that you should
be wiped out as well. Would you would think? You know,
now you prevailed it in a in a civil trialer, right, uh.

Speaker 3 (01:29:36):
Yeah, a civil suit listing all of the defendants that
I could think of, you know, the district attorney, the
police commissioner, fire commissioner, mayor, managing director FBI, UH officers

(01:29:56):
who provided the CEE for military ex blosive for the bomb,
and I mean everybody we could think of. Right. The
trial didn't go to court until ninety six. I was
home by then, but during that time, you know, from

(01:30:18):
I think I filed the suit in eighty six or
something like that. During that time, every single defendant in
my lawsuit was granted immunity and dismissed from my lawsuit,
except the fire commissioner and the police commissioner, and the

(01:30:41):
city of Philadelphia as an entity. They were the only
three left in the suit, you know, when it went
to court.

Speaker 2 (01:30:54):
And you weren't award in a judgment, but it was
an added insult injury.

Speaker 9 (01:31:00):
Well, yeah, I was awarded a judgment by the jury,
a dollar a week each week for eleven years each
from the fire commissioner and the police commissioner, and a
five hundred thousand dollars award from the City of Philadelphia.

Speaker 3 (01:31:24):
Now that might seem like a lot of money, five
hundred thousand dollars, you know, to some people, But I
lost my family. I was attacked, you know. And the
thing is, I remember a woman getting a million dollars
for spilling hot coffee on herself and a McDonald You

(01:31:48):
know what they did to me and my family five
hundred thousand dollars. I mean, we didn't do it, We
didn't file us for the money, but it speaks volume.
And after the jury gave that ridiculous you know whatever

(01:32:13):
you want to call it, of a dollar a week
each week from each the fire commissioner and police commissioner,
the judge came back and overruled the jewelry and granted
the police commissioner and the fire commissioner immunity, and they

(01:32:34):
didn't even have to pay the dollar a week either
one of them.

Speaker 2 (01:32:40):
And all of the lawsuits in the discovery, did you
ever find out how it came about that? On this
the stupid little charges you were discussing the original charges
that were dropped. Anyway, how did they get their hands
on C four in such a short period of time,
four explosives in such a short period of time? Said No, no, no, it.

Speaker 3 (01:32:59):
Wasn't a short period of time. They got it from
the FBI, and they had been practicing, rehearsing really their
attack on us for at least a year. They practiced
blowing up assimilation of our roof. Yeah, this wasn't no

(01:33:23):
short period of time. They had been practicing and rehearsing
what they were going to do. And that's why, you know,
I stressed the people don't be like Eve about this.
They came out there to kill, not to arrest. The

(01:33:45):
issue with this system was not any complaints from neighbors.
It is our unrelenting fight for the release of our
inner family members, known as the move.

Speaker 2 (01:34:02):
Nine right, and let's not forget that in May fifteenth.
There's a prole hearing May fifteenth, and you can go
to Honor Move dot com. You can find the address
for the pro board. And in normal cases, you can't
influence the prole board with a couple of letters, you know,
especially if you're a victim of a case. So this
is so political though, and it's just such a one

(01:34:23):
sided operation. But but you definitely got to bombard them
with phone calls and send them a letter in effect,
whatever you can do with emails. I know they have
an email address on there, so honor MO. Yeah, Honor
Move dot com. And we'll keep pressing it too between
now and May fifteenth as well.

Speaker 4 (01:34:38):
Ok, great, great, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:39):
One one thing too is United State. They've never you
think it's it's sort of an admission of guilt when
they've never again used C four drop C four on
another building after that as a tactic. Right, this is
like the last time they've ever pulled that stunt.

Speaker 3 (01:34:56):
So they realized they really blew it with And I
have to say that some of the children that were
murdered are children of the Move nine who had young
children when they were unjustly arrested and sent to prison.

(01:35:18):
You know, had spent years in prison to have their babies,
their children bombed and burned alive, you know. And also
you know when you talk about them not using C
four again, like that move people are living things. We're alive.

(01:35:41):
We had feelings, and so we can be hurt, you know,
we have feelings. But the thing is just like we
were hurt behind May thirteen, you know, losing our family
like that, this system was hurt too.

Speaker 10 (01:36:04):
They could no longer, never again hold their head up
around the world and talk about this being the country
of freedom, justice, equality, human rights, all of that.

Speaker 3 (01:36:22):
They could no longer do it because people around the
world were like in the US, in America, this could happen.
What is going on? You know? So you know, while
we were hurt, devastated by the loss of our family,

(01:36:43):
because we do have feelings, we can be hurt, but
we won't be stopped. It's this system, remote, this system
that has had to back up.

Speaker 2 (01:36:57):
Ramona, how do you look at the state of the revolution.
Do you think we're making advances or you think we're
making a we're losing Do you think I do you
think we're better off?

Speaker 3 (01:37:10):
That things are moving forward very very gradually? And I
think that because this system is doing our work for us.
I mean, all these police shootings, murders, they're waking people up.

(01:37:30):
It's a shame that so many people have to be
murdered or go through this, but it is unfortunately, you know,
that happens. But it is waking people up. I mean,
it was the birth of Black Lives Matter, you know.

(01:37:51):
And people are not as NAIs as they were about
this system before. They're not. They are absolutely And people
may think I'm crazy, but I'm here to tell you
I think Trump is the best thing that ever happened
for this revolution. Well, I kind of really do.

Speaker 2 (01:38:13):
I kind of said the same thing about him.

Speaker 3 (01:38:16):
He ain't hide and who he is, you know, and
it's getting he is getting people off their butts, on
their feet and out in the street.

Speaker 1 (01:38:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:38:28):
I said the same thing, that it would get the
street activists organized and motivated and out there in the streets,
like you said. Yeah, but there's still just so kind
of you know, it's rough, right, So we only got
about three minutes left. They'll give us some encouragement, you know,
because I tell you you're such a beautiful woman, you know,
and I look at your picture from nineteen eighty five.
And I look at your picture today, I know, I

(01:38:49):
look at a picture of me nineteen eighty five. I
got corpse today where you know, and you always encouraging him,
a great smile in your voice all the time. I
just I'm so encouraged hearing your voice. Give us some encouragement.

Speaker 3 (01:39:02):
Okay. One thing that Johanna from Coutados is no matter what,
never give in. As long as you keep fighting, doing
whatever you can do, you know, to keep going, then

(01:39:23):
you are victorious. You have not been defeated. You are
only defeated. When you throw your hands up and give in,
then you are defeated. But as long as you keep going,
keep working, never give in. And there may be times

(01:39:45):
where you're not able to do all the things that
you did a year ago, you know, and may come back,
you know in the next year you may be able
to do more. The thing is never ever is in.
That is what those running this system count on, bank

(01:40:07):
on people flaring up for an instant and then fizzling out,
fizzling out. That is why Move is such a thorn
in their side. Because despite everything that they have come
at us, with everything they have used on every other

(01:40:30):
organization that they've been confronted with and wanted to, you know,
break down and break up. None of it works with
the Move organization. And that is because John Africa gave

(01:40:51):
us that understanding. Never give in.

Speaker 2 (01:40:55):
Ramona Africa, your website's on a move dot com. What
about the contact information? Phonember email? Do you have all
get back?

Speaker 3 (01:41:01):
Yep. People can email us at on the Move O
N A M O V E L l j A
for Long Live John Africa at gmail dot com. People
can call us at two one five three eight six
one one six.

Speaker 2 (01:41:22):
Five Ramon Africa, God bless you, Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:41:25):
So much, Thank you for having me ed, take care.
Thank you On the Move, Long Live Revolution, Long Live
John Africa.

Speaker 2 (01:41:33):
A man. God bless your sister. You know, I want
to thank I want to thank Ramon in Africa for
keeping me in the loop, you know since the fromatter
on the show but four years ago. She emails me
all the time and I really really appreciate it. And
this is how I knew about this May fifteenth parole

(01:41:55):
hearing coming up and we have opportunity to support our ends.
There riding away in a prison, these three women who
never lifted their finger. Never never give it. Give a
dirty look at these cops and they were holding their
babies over their heads and as their home was being
filled with water, and they're being shot at in prison
for forty years. Okay, I can't see how anybody can

(01:42:16):
justify that. And now that I hear this, I didn't
even know this. Maybe I heard and I forgot, but
that they were practicing this C four explosion. Drop on this.
These rowhouses there on o Sage Avenue never wear that before.
That's just outrageous that we would tolerate such a such
an attack on innocent families and women and children. If
you like the show, remember Oppermanreport dot com. That's where

(01:42:38):
our member section is. We have more content in there.
You can also support the show with a donation at
Opperman Report at gmail dot com. If you want a
special discount for your membership, I'll give you thirteen months
for sixty bucks. Contact me at Opperman Report at gmail
dot com. Where at the end of the month. Today
is as we do this broadcast, it's the twenty sixth
and we don't have the money to pay for a speaker.

(01:42:59):
We don't have the money to pay for the internet.
So if someone could a couple of memberships here that
keep us on the air for another month.

Speaker 1 (01:43:06):
You know, we don't.

Speaker 2 (01:43:07):
I don't like to come on here, you know and
tell your financial problems. And last month we had a
rough one, but we didn't survive it, you know, is
what we're gonna do it a month after month. We
could sponsorships too, if you want to advertise on the show.
A great deal on sponsorships, we'll hook you right up
with that. Ramona Africa from On a Move and we
had in the early show Alan G. Parker who killed

(01:43:29):
Nancy that the sid which is interesting through a little
theme through that the two shows. CBG was was right
around the corner from Yippie Headquarters at nine Bleeker Street.
And it was at nine Bleeker Street, Yippie headquarters where
I met first met Move. I guess it was about
nineteen seventy nine or nineteen eighty when I met the
group Move. They had we had written a Yipster Times

(01:43:51):
Overthrow magazine had written an article about Move and the
attack over there at the first attack in nineteen seventy eight,
and they had come down to visit, you know. And
I guess those folks that we met there in New
York City later on, probably were the ones who died
in the in the bombing on Oiseage Avenue. So another

(01:44:12):
small world here at the Opperaman Report in What a
long strange trip it's been. Well, anyway, what are you
gonna do?

Speaker 1 (01:44:19):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
If you like the show? Remember Operamanreport dot com. That's
where the member section is a lot of great new
content added all the time you become a member. That's
what supports the show. I need about four memberships, okay,
out of one hundred thousand, five hundred thousand people listen
to the show, I need four memberships to get us
through the mouth sixty bucks. I give you thirteen months, okay,
So if you enjoy the show, you get you get
a membership. On top, you get some content to listen to.

(01:44:44):
You know, if I if everybody who emailed me about
this show in a month, I sent ten bucks, we'd
have more than enough to support or even a dollar,
because this month we only needed a couple hundred bucks. Man,
if everybody who emails me in a week cent a dollar. Okay,
all these urgent emails you guys sent me, ed, what

(01:45:04):
do you think about this? What are you saying with it?
It's two hundred messages a day on YouTube, just YouTube along.
I gotta filter through that crap, all those comments and
stuff like that, so I know people listen to the show,
and if you want to keep it on the air,
you know, we got to support through the members section
operaman Report at gmail dot com. Thirteen months for sixty bucks.
All right, guys, thank you so much, and thanks to
Shane Our. I don't remember this thing.