November 14, 2025 • 52 mins
This explosive biography of the Duke and Duchess of York - Prince Andrew and his ex-wife, Sarah Ferguson – exposes the secrets and scandals behind their extravagant lives and troubled marriage.
Entitled presents an unvarnished and meticulously researched account of two of the most controversial figures in modern royal history. Based on years of investigation, extensive Freedom of Information requests and more than a hundred interviews with previously silent sources, acclaimed royal expert Andrew Lownie delivers an authoritative and deeply revealing dual portrait of the Duke and Duchess, whose lives and relationship have ben marked by privilege, controversy, and public fascination.
Tracing their stories from childhood through their high-profile courtship and marriage, dramatic divorce, and enduring connection as “the happiest divorced couple in the world,” Entitled digs deeper than ever before into a pair that has long been a source of scrutiny. Lownie examines Prince Andrew’s trajectory from a celebrated naval officer to a disgraced royal accused of sexual assault and stripped of his public duties, and unpacks the truth of his lavish lifestyle and the enduring fallout from his association with Jeffrey Epstein.
More than just a story of personal failings or royal scandal, Entitled examines the broader context of a monarchy navigating public accountability and the pressures of modernity. The result is a compelling and nuanced portrait of a flawed couple whose lives have defined and defied the expectations of royalty in the 21zst century, and whose actions continue to resonate far beyond the palace walls.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-opperman-report--1198501/support.
Entitled presents an unvarnished and meticulously researched account of two of the most controversial figures in modern royal history. Based on years of investigation, extensive Freedom of Information requests and more than a hundred interviews with previously silent sources, acclaimed royal expert Andrew Lownie delivers an authoritative and deeply revealing dual portrait of the Duke and Duchess, whose lives and relationship have ben marked by privilege, controversy, and public fascination.
Tracing their stories from childhood through their high-profile courtship and marriage, dramatic divorce, and enduring connection as “the happiest divorced couple in the world,” Entitled digs deeper than ever before into a pair that has long been a source of scrutiny. Lownie examines Prince Andrew’s trajectory from a celebrated naval officer to a disgraced royal accused of sexual assault and stripped of his public duties, and unpacks the truth of his lavish lifestyle and the enduring fallout from his association with Jeffrey Epstein.
More than just a story of personal failings or royal scandal, Entitled examines the broader context of a monarchy navigating public accountability and the pressures of modernity. The result is a compelling and nuanced portrait of a flawed couple whose lives have defined and defied the expectations of royalty in the 21zst century, and whose actions continue to resonate far beyond the palace walls.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-opperman-report--1198501/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
It's the Opperman Report, and now here is Investigator Opperman. Okay,
welcome to the Opperman Report. I'm your host, Private investigator
Ed Opperman. You get a hold of me at Opperman
Investigations and Digital Friends and Consulting if you reach out
to me through my email Opperman Investigations at gmail dot com.
(00:22):
If you like our show every Friday night Speaker dot
com from eight pm to eleven pm, three hours of
brand new content, two hours of interviews and one hour
solo reporting. There's a chatroom. You get an email notification
when we put up new content. And if you go
there and look up our guests today Andrew Lowney, you'll
find our previous interviews we've done with them. He had
(00:45):
a great book before this one we're going to be
talking about today about the Lord Mountbotten. Now that one
got great response on our show. But he's back better
than ever before. And the new book is called entitled
The Eyes and Fall of the House of York. And
of course his website is Andrew Lownie dot me. You
(01:06):
go there you find out all is upcoming speaking gigs.
Mister Lownee, are you there.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I'm here ready and waiting.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Hey, great, Thank you so much. I know it's been
a long day. Man. You got a lot of energy
for an old guy.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Well, I mean, it's very exciting. I'm so grateful for
the interest, and it's very stimulating for me to have
this response. And of course, you know, things are happening
literally day by day, new disclosures, So it's and doing
shows like this is really important to me because as
often how I pick up my information. I don't know
if it's the same with you, but people, I mean,
(01:41):
one of the disclosures this week was the fact that
Fergie had continued her association with Epstein long after she
claimed to cut links. And I had evidence because someone
had dog Walker in New York had seen her coming
out of Epstein's flats years after she claimed to cut contact.
And that came just on a podcast, and she wrote
in a comment, So it's it's I'm always really grateful
(02:03):
to listeners and viewers for any of their contributions.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Oh yeah, there's so much interest in this topic. It's
just it's incredible. But before we get into the note
book here entitled The Rise and Fall of the House
of York, tell us about yourself. Remind the audience who
is Andrew Lowney.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Well, I've been a literary agent for the last forty
forty five years. I've trained as a historian, first at
Cambridge and then did my doctorate at Envy University. I'm
a great believer in freedom information. I'm a trustee of
the Campaign for Freedom Information. But alongside my career as
a literary agent, I've been writing books. I started off
writing literary biography, so one was of John Buckan, the
(02:41):
author of the Thirty nine Steps. Then I did a
book about a spy in the Cambridge Spiring with Philbey,
called Guy Burgess, and then I sort of gravitated towards
royal books. So I did that book on Lord mount Batten,
which you kindly talked to me about, who was the
uncle of Prince Philip. And from that that kind of
moved to Trey to King, basically arguing that Edward the
(03:03):
eighth was a Nazi and that the love affair with
Waller Simpson was actually a bit of an excuse to
get him off the throne. And now I've done the
first book on living a living Royal, which of course
is much more difficult. Their legal problems with that, there
are no documents I rely on. Interviews are very different
training to the one I had, But this has proved
(03:23):
to be very timely because you know, more and more
stuff has been coming out about Epstein. What I've sort
of found with the book is a joint biography of
Fergie and Andrew. It's like all the previous books, it
looks through at the people through the prism of their marriages.
Is that you know, not only are they not the
happiest divorced couple ever, but there is a very interesting
(03:46):
financial scandal here which I think tends to get ignored
by the focus on Epstein. And it's how both of
them have monetized their position in the Royal family for
their own personal financial gain, and how that was helped
by other men the royal family, including the Queen, and
that to me was pretty shocking. We've always assumed the
Queen put the monarchy ahead of her own family, and
(04:07):
yet here she is colluding with Andrew, particularly when he
had a role as a trade envoy on behalf of
Britain to line his own pocket.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Why would it be necessary for a member of the
royal family to line their own pocket. Don't they have
all access to all that wealth as it.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Is well, the monarch and the heir to the throne
have access to very lucrative the Duchy of Lancaster and
the Duchess Duchy of Cornwall. But actually other members of
the royal family I mean are clearly very privileged. They
live in large houses, They inherit a lot of money
which is passed down through the ages. We don't know
(04:44):
how much because the Royal wills are sealed. But I
think the problem with Andrew and Fergie is that they
got used to very expensive jet set lifestyles and in
order to keep up with their friends, they began to
just spend wildly. They needed to, you know, they needed
to to basically find other sources of income. And this
(05:05):
is some you know, where the problems lay. But they
were forced to consort with all sorts of people that
they shouldn't have consorted with.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I remember doing it, and if you previously it might
even have been with you. And that Andrew was involved
in arms dealing.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, certainly when he had this role as a trade
envoy between two thousand and one and twenty eleven representing
you know, the British government, there were you know, he
was negotiating arms deals, and in fact was very upset
when the Syrias Fraud Office looked at some of these deals.
He didn't think they should be doing that, but you
know that was part of his job. That's fair enough.
(05:42):
But I think the concern is that he was doing
side deals for himself, possibly in oil and gas. Possibly
he was as rumors he ran a golf complex on
the Caspian Sea. So that's I think where the concerns lie.
And clearly Fergie has been doing what Markel has been
trying to do, but Fergie's done it much more successfully
(06:03):
for thirty years, which is to use her royal position
to promote everything from weight watchers and Wedgewood China through
to Cranberry juice, to be writing books, to do diets, blenders,
you name it, pens. I think she was doing jams
and staff biscuits long before Meghan got there, So in
(06:25):
some ways, you know, Meghan had had a prototype she
could follow.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
It sounds like Trump, except for the blenders. I don't
think we have a Trump blender yet, but we'll be
waiting for that one. Waiting for that one.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Uh, How did they make their money? How were they
supposed to legitimately make their money then without all these
tacky well.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I mean when you were when you were working royal,
you'll give them money to cover your expenses, your staff. They,
as I say, inherited money through from for example, grandmother,
the Queen mother. Money I think was passed to Andrews
through his mother the Queen. So I mean they're not
sure of a penny. I mean, they live in very
large houses, they have their staff run for them, and
(07:09):
even if they're non working roles, they have a pretty
luxurious lifestyle and most people in the royal family are
pretty content with that. I think the problem was, you know,
they don't necessarily go by private jet too often. The
problem is that Andrew and Fergie kind of want to
go by private jet all the time, even if it's
just down the road, and that costs money. But you know,
(07:30):
they and they you know, very keen on freebies. They
like given you know, free cars, free holidays, often given
gifts which you know, again it's very difficult to check.
But I think they just got greedy and they thought
they could just get away with it, and they have
got away with it until now. If you hadn't had
(07:51):
Virginia Jeffrey come forward, we wouldn't probably be looking at
all this.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, I was going to ask you about that, but
before we get to that, because you know me, coming
from America, I've never been a big fan of royals
and stuff. How do they fit into the royal family, like,
they're not the son of King Charles?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Where they involved, well, Prince Andrew was second in line
to the throne. He is the youngest son, a younger
brother of King Charles. He's the second son of the queen,
so you know he from until nineteen eighty two when
William was born, he was basically the backup and if
anything had happened to Charles, he would have been king.
(08:35):
And he thought he might well be regent until William
came and even after William was born, that he would
be regent until William became eighteen. And Sarah Ferguson I
think also had that belief that if and that's why
she kind of stuck with Andrew. I mean even now
he is eighth in line. So we have the children
of William who are in line but cually too young
(08:57):
should there be should something happen, and so we have
a position actually where if William and Charles, for example,
were traveling together and died. The next person who would
become king would be Prince Harry. And if Harry said,
look I live in the States, I don't want to
do this, the next person would have been Andrew. So
he's still quite an important royal. When he goes to things,
(09:19):
he expects to be at, you know, the front to
front row. So he's not some minor figure. And this
is why it's so embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
And he was removed from that secession because of I
know they called him Randy and the even before Drew
Free And what was his reputation before this came out
with Epstein.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, Andrew never didn't have a good reputation. And he
came back from fighting in the Falklands War in nineteen
eighty two and that was probably the peak of his reputation.
Everyone saw him as this hero who had gone out
and done his bit. But very quickly that all changed.
There was an episode in Los Angeles where he turned
a paint gun on the on the press, causing thousands
(09:59):
of pounds of damage to their camera equipment and their clothes.
And he you know, he's been full of these sort
of mistakes, mistakes, but you know, he quickly got the reputation,
as you say, of being Randy Andy, of being known
as as someone who was just interested in the playboy
lifestyle and picking up girls. He then got a reputation
as the air Miles Andy, of of of of using
(10:22):
you know, aircraft, private aircraft whenever he could at public expense,
because of course the taxpayer was paying for it. You know,
he's he's he's not been a popular figure. But I
think the Epstein episode was really when things began to
become very serious for him, because people kind of put
up with, you know, his antics. But to be involved
(10:42):
and supportive of a man who was convicted with the
offenses that he had been convicted of, I think didn't
play very well with the public. M m.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
And then what what was it about? I remember the
marriage to Ferguson, I remember that, But then what was
it that sour the public on there and caused the
solution of their marriage?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
I think there were several things. There was a sense
that Sarah Ferguson wasn't pulling a weight, that she was
known as freebie Fergie, she was always on holidays, she
was a roll of batty. She was also called fruitcake Fergie.
There was I think concerned that she was pretty vulgar,
that she, you know, was a breadth, had what was
(11:26):
seen to be a breath of fresh air now seemed
to be pretty sort of bringing the monarchy into disrepute
and very undignified. There was a famous episode which they
took part in the game show where they got dressed
up and in historical outfits and people raced up and down,
and people felt that wasn't very good, but you know,
it was for charity, and I think, you know, people
(11:49):
criticized her for her dress, sense, for her that she
was overweight, She was seen to be indiscreet and disloyal
in some respects. So the whole narrative and the media
support for her changed and it's never really fully recovered.
I mean, people respected her after her divorce. The divorce
(12:10):
happened because they basically were not very compatible. They didn't
see much of each other. He was often at sea
because he was in the navy. They both of them
began to have affairs quite early, and then she was
caught having an affair with someone in the South of France.
It was all over the newspapers and at that point
the Queen said, look, you know, you need to to
(12:30):
separate and eventually get divorced. And then of course once
she was divorced, she was always desperate to support herself.
Even though she had quite a good divorce settlement, you know,
she never had enough and that's why she began to
do more and more embarrassing things. She'd go and open
shopping malls, she would be paid to attend events, she
(12:52):
charged huge sums to give speeches, and she kind of
mixed it up with charity work. It was never very
clear what the dividing lines were between the charity and
the business opportunities for her, and so none of that
played very well in Britain. In America she was always
a bit more popular. She was seen as a great survivor,
as someone who had stood up to the sort of
(13:12):
palace establishment, and she was very good at painting herself
as a victims. She'd appear on Oprah or another show.
She you know, had charm. I think admired people admired
the fact that she was in effect a single mum
and she was, you know, making the best of the situation.
But that was a little bit of a sort of
fake profile. You know, the royal family, the Queen actually
(13:35):
paid off huge sums for her of her debts. She
was actually quite heavily supported by them, both emotionally and
financially so, but she was very good at creating this
slightly fake picture and lots of people brought into it.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
How unusual is that, like historically for divorce to be
in the royal family. I know what happened with the Diana,
but ever before.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Well, yes, we'd had. I think that the first time
clearly had happened was with the abdication, and that's how
it all happened. In nineteen thirty six, Edward the eighth
couldn't become king as the head of the Church of
England because he wanted to marry a divorce woman, so
that was and he wasn't allowed to become king. We
then had the experience with Margaret, the sister of the
(14:20):
Queen Elizabeth, Princess Margaret, who did divorce her husband, Lord Snowden,
I think in the nineteen seventies or eighties, so that
was the first of the divorces. I mean there have
been people on the periphery, cousins and people like that,
but then Dinah was the big one because clearly that
was the heir to the throne, and then Andrew was
also a big one. But Andrew actually came before Dina.
(14:43):
Dina and Fergie had said we'll go out together and
we'll sort of support each other. And in fact, then
Diana did a pulled a fast one on on Fergie
and she kind of left Fergie to do it first.
So we've now seen three of the queen's children get divorced,
(15:03):
because of course there was also Princess Anne who divorced
her husband. So you know, it's not that unusual. Now
three of the four children are divorced, but nothing like
this had really happened until until basically the nineteen eighties
and nineteen nineties.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Well, what do you make of that recent revelation where
Gilaine Maxwell said that Prince died Diana was fixed up
with Jeffrey Epstein on a date.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I think that's that's that's probably true. You know, I
don't believe everything Gilaine said. I mean, she she claimed that,
you know, Trump isn't anywhere in the Epstein papers, which
I don't believe for a minute. But I think, you know,
the fact that Diana was that Epstein was was attracted
to Diana doesn't surprise me. The fact that that actually
the connection between Epstein and the royal family may have
(15:50):
come through Fergie doesn't surprise me. So, you know, it
would be wonderful if Gilaine gave another interview, because I mean,
she knows where all the bodies buried, she knows the
false story. But I you know, given that, you know,
she's kind of done her bit and got her reward,
I can't see her giving another interview.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
What about Fergie. Wouldn't she be motivated by money to
give an interview now as well?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Well, I think that's very likely. I mean, she has
been paid large sorts of money in the past to
give interviews, and you know, her reputations at rock bottom.
She may be looking to try and justify herself. I
mean clearly Andrew did try to do that with his
Newsnight interview and that backfired on him. So she has
to be careful how she does it. It has to
be carefully controlled interview, and there will be people like
(16:38):
me who have been studying her who may say, well,
you know, this isn't quite the story that's pictured, but
she she's presented a picture. You know. The narrative so
far has always been my mother ran away with a
polo player when I was thirteen. I've had low self esteem,
I've overeaten, I suffered as a result of this, and
(16:59):
of course I might, but I've learned from my mistakes.
It won't happen again. And then of course she goes
and does the whole thing all over again immediately after that.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
But you believe that she was the first one to
come into contact with Maxwell and Epstein.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
I have this suspicion that Glaine and Fergie were big
society figures in New York in the nineteen eighties and
nineteen nineties, and I think that's how the children would
have met. Glainne clearly had been the girlfriend of Epstein,
and I think would have perhaps seen the opportunities by
introducing Epstein to the royal family, and he would have
(17:34):
done it through Fergie. I think that that makes a
lot of sense to me. And of course, you know,
having the status and respectability being associated with the royal
family was exactly what Epstein wanted. I think he describes
Andrew and President Clinton being his Super Bowl trophies, and
then what.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Was in it for them? What was in it for
Andrew to be associated with Epstein?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
The well, lots of things. Epstein was paying off Fergie's debts.
Some that's been quoted as fifteen thousand, but I think
it's more likely to bean two million pounds of debts.
Epstein provided a ready supply of young woman for Andrew,
and he provided some useful contacts for him. So they
(18:20):
shared contacts and they became very, very good friends. They
shared the same sort of sexual tastes, the same desire
to make money, the same lack of moral boundaries. So
it was a good arrangement. And for Epstein, you know,
he got to stay at bell Moral and going to
sit in the throne at bucking And Palace. It was
a great calling card for him to have pictures of
(18:42):
him with Prince Andrew.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Now, when I heard you were writing this book about Andrew,
I sent you an email and I says, hey, Andrew,
I stumbled on his information about Harlan Crowe's brother, who
has his own sex trafficking allegations, and yeah, right, okay,
they he said, oh yea, I'm already working on it.
Don't worry about it. But what do you go it?
How does that fit into the timeline? Though? Because I
(19:06):
know he offered lodging he offered a home to I
believe both Fergie and Andrew. So they were already on
the outs when they were together. They were already having
money proms and problems with the Royal family when they
were still married.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Sorry, so Travel offered the money or Epstein offered the money.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
No, my understanding is Travel offered Fergie and Andrew a
home to live in.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Well, you know more than I do. I mean I
approached Tremble and indeed lawyers connected with the case. But
certainly he was sponsoring Fergie, he was paying paying her
under the guys that she was a brand manager, a
brand ambassador for one of his products. But you know, again,
you know, being able to say you're associated with the
(19:53):
royals can be probably a good business decision. So that
doesn't surprise me. That's interesting and the reason. But you know,
there were short of money when they were married, and
there were short of money after they got divorced. They
were married in eighty six, they separated in ninety two.
They got divorced in ninety six, but actually they remained
living together and remained and still lived together. But they
(20:15):
operate very much as a team, particularly for their business operations,
and so money you know, from Trammel to either of
them would have been very welcome because of you know,
as I say, they have this extravagant lifestyle, extensive staffs.
You know, they have to stay in the smartest hotels,
go to the best restaurants, they drink the best wines,
(20:36):
and that of course costs money.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
So there is a publicly recorded business transactions dealings between
Fergie and Trammel, Trammel Crown.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
I had some difficulty finding. I mean, there's been a
little bit of coverage, so I mean, I'd love to
talk to you further about it, but I found that,
you know, no one was prepared to talk about any
relationship they had because there was also meant to be
a romance relationship, and Fergie has this habit of sort
of kind of falling in love with her business partners.
(21:08):
But the problems I just couldn't couldn't nail the story.
So if if you've got information, i'd be you know,
I'd love to talk to you about it further. But
you know, my memory, my memory, Well, I'm sure you
have extensive files. I'm sure you know, with your investigative skills,
you've probably found lots of things that I've missed, or
indeed some of your listeners and viewers may may know
(21:29):
stories that perhaps haven't appeared.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
That's a good question. We were talking about this off
the air a bit. It's amazing how this subject has
fascinated so many people, armchair detectives and researchers, that the
average person is really, really, really doing a lot of
interesting work digging up there in this situation.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Right, Yes, it is. I mean, I think it's interesting.
The mainstream media sometimes slightly nervous for legal reasons or whatever,
to to to dig too deeply. But you know, there
are podcasts like yours, investigators like you. But I think
also social media. I mean, we have now got a
sort of citizen a citizen journalism where people are asking
some really good questions, doing some research themselves, and they're
(22:10):
pushing the story forward. And that's great. You know, it
means that the narrative can't be controlled in the way
it was so.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Now, when you were working on this book Entitle The
Rise and Fall of the House of York, how much
pushback did you get from the royal family. I understand
you had some proms right.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Well before the book came out. Sarah Ferguson's lawyers wrote
to the publisher saying that, you know, if there was
anything that was libelous, they would come after us. They
were saying that we're monitoring my social media. If I
said anything, for example, I would be in trouble. So
they were sort of trying to be pretty intimidating, but
we were very careful what we put in the book.
(22:48):
The Yorks told all their friends not to talk to me,
The Foreign Office told diplomats not to talk to me.
All my attempts to get access to documentation which should
be in our British national arch was I couldn't get
hold of it, and no one seemed to know where
these documents were. So I found that, I mean, my
(23:09):
American contract with a bit of large American publisher was
canceled a few weeks before publication. I found that interviews
I did never ran. A number of papers and organizations
haven't covered the book at all. I've had a plethora
of one star reviews or ratings on Amazon which I've
never had before, which people people have said have been
(23:32):
generated by bots or by through a PR firm. So yeah,
they've tried, you know, they have tried to discredit the
book and me. But the great thing is that you know,
you know more people. They can only do so much,
and people you know, seem to have liked the book.
It's had some impact. It was number one in Britain
for many weeks. And you know, as the story continues
(23:53):
to develop, many of the things that I was saying
have proved to be true. Many the things that were
taken out by lawyers, I'm now able to put back
in because again I was proved or my sources were
proved to be correct. So things that we found pretty
bad and you KNOWLT just couldn't believe actually have proved
to be absolutely correct.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
So they did force you to take some stuff out
there before you published.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yes, Trump put pressure on the News Corps, who are
the sort of head company for William Collins, and I
think they took the view not that the material wasn't accurate,
which it is, but that it was just it would
just save a lot of time and legal expense if
they just took it out. And you know, by that stage,
(24:42):
actually about sixty thousand copies of the book had been published,
so there are plenty of copies running around with the
information I put in about the relationship between Millennia and Epstein.
I don't think it's a secret, so it seemed a
pretty pointless gesture. But I can understand why they did that.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Know, if you're taking a trip, you said, you're coming
to America in the first week at December, are you
concerned because you know they've grabbing people at the border
and it's serious business down here these days.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Well, I think that I have been warned about that,
and that is the risk. But you know, I'm hoping
to appear on various programs. There's research I want to do,
people I want to meet, and I'm just going to
see how it goes. But I'm certainly not going to
be intimidated.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
It's a shame we even have to have this kind
of discussion and talk about this thing. What would mister
Trump be worried about? It's in your book. I know
Andrew Lowney is a very serious investigator, very serious reporter.
He doesn't throw around things lightly. What would mister Trump
be upset? That's in your book?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Well, I think you didn't like, you know, the fact
that Milanio was involved with Epstein before Trump. There are
some comments about which I picked up from a British
official at the consulate in New York about some pretty
sort of locker room got talk between Trump and Andrew
which he didn't like the sound off. I mean, it's
(26:05):
there plenty of examples of Trump talking like that, so
it's not And in fact, this this diplomat is prepared
to go on the record on on what he heard
the three of them in the room. But you know,
it's it was, it was a sort of it's one
line in the book. It's it's not really the focus
of the book. So I don't mind too much about that.
(26:26):
But yeah, clearly Trump is a bit of a big
baby and he doesn't like anyone say anything about him.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Now, what is your sort? Who is your source? This
diplomat you said, is a source of Millennia dating Epstein.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Uh. The the source for the locker room conversation is
the diplomat who's gone, who's going on record, the source
of information about the relationship between Millennia and Epstein.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
And in fact that Epstein introduced Millennia to Trump comes
from Epstein himself, an interview he did with a documentary filmmaker.
And but I think you know, Michael Wolfe has interviewed
Eve Steen, and I think he said very similar things
that James Carvill has said things like this. Hunter Biden,
I think, has refused to back down with various accusations
(27:10):
about Millennia's private life and Trump. So you know, it's
not a unique story in some ways, which is why
it was odd that he should should be so cross
about it. But I think it was the time the
Wall Street Journal was being sued by Trump and they
just felt they didn't want any more.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
I grew, Yeah, well, they made those big threats to
sue Hunter Biden and nothing came of that, you know,
and even Carvil did kind of back down. What about
Paolo Zampoli? Did you come run across his name and
all this research?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
No, that's a new name to me. Tell me more.
I'm learning more on this interview than you are.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Polo zam Poli is the fellow. In fact, we just
did a show about the last name with a great guy,
Andrew Anthony Andrews has been researching Palo Zampolli. He's the
one that brought Millennia over on her HB one visa
as a modeling. He's the one that brought her over
and he's he says he introduced Milania to.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yes, that's the story. Yeah, so yeah, so, I mean,
you know, recollections can vary. You know, you're absolutely right.
I mean Epstein has told this story. It may not
be true. It may have been to wind Trump up,
and that's of course always the danger. I mean, just
because someone tells you something doesn't mean it's true. But certainly,
what this my source said is that Epstein you had
(28:26):
a good relationship with him. He was talking to him
in a very open and honest way. So, you know,
more digging needs to be done. But I clearly need
to watch that program and see what's been said that.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
I was also awarded with the business ambassadorship to the
U N by mister Trump.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Right, yes, some motivations, right, yes, well exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, but he was around early on and he seems
to have a lot of connections to all these fellows
to us, Epstein as well as well as Casablancas and
General Brunell and that whole crowd to as well. What
is the how far back do Trump and Andrew go?
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Well, that's a very good question. I mean there's certainly
pictures of them around two thousand. I mean, the Andrews
at parties at mar Lago. Uh, it's and we have
pictures with with Epstein Andrew and and Trump. The it's
very difficult to tell, I have to say, and I
(29:25):
need to do a little bit more research, probably there
because I suspect there was there was more contact than
is available in the published sources. But yeah, I just
don't know. I mean, Trump now pretends that he never
doesn't know Andrew, but I mean there's plenty, plenty of evidence,
with photographic evidence and and and other evidence of them
(29:47):
knowing each other. But it's you know, a relationship, a
very good relationship which in some ways, if if Andrew
wasn't such a discredited figure now, he would have been
playing I think a pretty major role at the stage
visit only a few weeks ago. But that's one of
the big questions. And again other people may have done
some work on this, they may have discovered stuff on it,
(30:11):
but yeah, certainly two of the year two thousand.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, it's very first of all that that picture from
two thousand at Mara a Lago was discovered by my
friend Pierce Redmond and at the time, yeah, and at
the time we could only find get this we did
a docusearch and we could only find the caption that
it was Andrew and Trump at Mara a Lago. We
couldn't find the picture to go with it. The picture
wasn't found actually months later. Fascinating, right, it was very
(30:38):
interesting buried there for a while. And even more interesting
is the most recent picture of Andrew and Trump together
over there in England where they're smiling in there, laughing.
That's the night before Epstein was arrested.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Gosh, oh, that's the nights and he then came back
and was picked up on the on the tarmacs. Right,
little did he know?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah, but things that maybe they thought they were laughing about,
you know, just very and who knows, you know, what
else are we going to find in this book here
entitled The Rise and Fall of the House of York.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Well, I think you know that that's the relationship is
say with Epstein, for both Andrew and Sarah began earlier,
lasted longer, was what was much more extensive than I
think has been on. They stick a basis at the
home in Manhattan. They had a suite of rooms called
the Brittannia Suite. Sarah actually went to the to the Island,
(31:37):
as well as to Palm Beach and to the house
in Manhattan. So I think there's you know, there's there's
more stuff clearly on the relationship with Epstein, and I
think more stuff will emerge. There's clearly a lot about
their extravagant lifestyles and the waste, the way they wasted money,
the way they've been making money by, as I say,
monetizing their role position. I think there's the story of
(31:58):
Andrew as the trade envoy between two thousand and one
and twenty eleven and how he basically was promoting himself
rather than British trade. And there are also of stories
there about basically taking commissions of shoehorning in people like Epstein,
two meetings to promote British trade which were actually to
(32:20):
promote Epstein's own businesses. There's a little bit about Andrew's
naval career, which wasn't very successful. So it is a
joint biography of the two of them. It's about a
four from Grace and how this couple, who were very
popular at the time of their wedding become these pariahs
now and the damage that they're going to do to
(32:41):
the reputation of the monarchy by the way they've behaved,
and it will continue unless somehow King Charles deals with them.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
And you believe that Fergie was actually closer to Epstein
than Andrew was.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Well, Fergie certainly had more numbers in the Black Books.
She had eighteen numbers, Andrew only had sixteen. But yes,
I mean, you know, we don't see her on the
Lilita flights, but we only have some information about the
Lilita flights. She certainly was close to Epstein, and many
of the people in her own close social circle were
(33:18):
close to Epstein. And in fact, there's some suggestion that
Andrew was introducing, particularly some of his former girlfriends to Epstein,
who was then using them I don't know how, but
possibly as bait for some of the people that he
was drawing into a sort of honeytraps and collecting compromat.
So I think you know that they've always worked very
(33:41):
closely together, even when she was trying to sell access
to him, and she kind of distanced that. He said
he wasn't involved. He was definitely involved in that. But again,
you know, once the Virginia Jeffrey book comes out next month,
once we have maybe some more victims talking in Capital
Hell about it. Once we have maybe more leaked emails,
(34:03):
the situation may become a bit clearer.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, has anything new come out? Sin since the book
came out? Have you found anything new in these leaked
emails and the documents that came out?
Speaker 2 (34:12):
How?
Speaker 1 (34:13):
What about that that Birthday book was? Is anything with
there or Prince Andrew in that book?
Speaker 2 (34:17):
There wasn't anything on Andrew in the Birthday Book. But
I think there are emails I understand which are going
to be made public which say more about Andrew. There's
some stuff that's appeared today about him paying for massers.
There's a story about Andrew taking Tom Pritzker of High
Hotels and Epstein to Sandringham. That's not actually an all
(34:39):
a news story. But you know, some of the stuff
is coming up from slightly different sources, backing up the
stories we've already had.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Well, what about you hear these stories about when Goofrie
was trying to assume Andrew that the Royals were running interference.
They weren't even allowing him to be served with subpoenas
and stuff like that, so on one end they were
helping him in these efforts.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Absolutely, you know, he refused to cooperate with any of
the victims' lawyers, indeed with Jeffrey Berman, who was the
prosecutor in New York, and he was trying to avoid
being served any of the summonses to the extent that
he was basically whisked away to bal Morale where they
clearly couldn't get to the gate. So that doesn't give
(35:25):
a suggestion of someone who is innocent. It certainly didn't
play very well in terms of optics, the fact that
he was trying to duck any sort of engagement with
people who often only wanted him to come and talk
to them and give them evidence that might help them
in other cases. And I think it's extraordinary that Sarah
Ferguson wasn't asked to give evidence. But I think all
(35:50):
the way through the law enforcement agencies, certainly in Britain
and I think also in the States, have just not
wanted to go here. They haven't opened investigations despite evidence
been presented to them that would justify investigations. The MPs
in Britain were calling for Andrew, for example, to be
investigated by the National Crime Agency twenty years ago, and
(36:11):
even the head of the Royal Protections Service AGA called
die Davis was asking for Andrew to be investigated because
of his Epstein connections. And that's true of Channel four
News here in Britain. And I think Virginia Jeffrey herself
as a victim. But you know, that's the problem. We
have a very obsequious and deferential institutions, whether it's the
(36:34):
press or the government or the law enforcement agencies, and
no one is ever going to do anything which would
be embarrassing by basically calling out behavior by members of
the royal family. And they know that, and that's how
they know they can get away with pretty outrageous behavior.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Now, the photograph of Virginia Roberts to do free with Andrew,
they steadfairstly say that that's a photoshopped a photograph. What's
the word over there in England? What's the average person
say about that? Does anybody believe them?
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I don't think any serious person believes it's photoshopped. I mean,
you couldn't photoshop the pictures at that time a true
so I mean, and you know, there's a plenty of
forensic evidence to show this is a genuine photo that
was developed Walmart three days later. There are lots of
people who saw the photo almost immediately, including her father,
(37:29):
her boyfriend, a very close friend of hers, Caroline Andreamo.
So but even you know, I had people have had
forensic experts. Look at the pictures, the nineteen pictures that
are available. If there's one copy with the FBI, the
FBI certainly don't think it's a fake. So if this
is just I'm afraid pr from paying people to try
(37:53):
and discredit Virginia Jeffrey. I mean, there's actually stuff in
the book about how Andrew Galaine and others ganged up
against Virginia Jiffrey to try and undermine her story. So
that kind of undermines their claim that they knew nothing
about her and never met her, and et cetera. You know,
they realized she was a real threat and she had
to be neutralized.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
You know, I remember too, this was a much bigger
story in England than it was here in the United States,
way back with Andrew. What made it come over here? When?
What made it get big in the United States?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
What was it the it's become big in the States,
because clearly, I mean less so on the Andrew story.
But I mean, I think people orangest in the British
royal family, I mean Glaine Maxwell and Sarah Fergus has
had a lot of time in New York. I think
we also have some of the names that have come
up with Epstein. I mean Bill Clinton, Bill Gates and
(38:49):
other names have been thrown up by the Black Book,
by the Elita flight logs, so there's clearly American connection there.
A number of American politicians have also their names have emerged,
So I think that's why it's become interesting. I think,
you know, Trump made this great declaration that he was
going to clear the swamp, that he was going to
open the Epstein files, that there was going to be
(39:11):
complete accountability and transparency, and then of course that didn't happen.
That course outraged a lot of his supporters, who thus
only realized that maybe he was part of the problem
rather than the solution. And I think that's how it's
it's it's got bigger and bigger. I think people just
fed up of being lied to. They've fed up with
the government, the goverment that's going on. We know that
(39:33):
Elon Musk has has made allegations against Trump. We know
that Pam Bondi says that there was material in there
on Trump, and yet now they've changed their tune. So
it's become a big question about, you know, trust in
the American government and where and you know, and trust
in the presidency. I think that's how it's grown. So
(39:53):
Andrew and Epstein is a sort of is part of
that story, but it's become much wider, so people realize
the networks were much greater. There were many more girls
traffic than we'll realized, and many more rich and powerful
men who have been compromised by Epstein.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Do we know of any other young ladies besides Jeffrey
who were victims of Andrew? Underage women that were victori
that have come out publicly that we know their names
it was litigation.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
No, we don't, and I think you know, basically a
lot of people were paid off a lot of people.
Clearly there were people who were asked in depositions if
they'd had sex with Andrew. Sarah Kellen I think was one,
Adriana Ross was another, and they took the Fifth Amendment.
(40:42):
So but we haven't had depositions or libel cases as
with Virginia Jeffrey. I do know of other women that
he slept with and I know of girls of fifteen
that he slept with, but again for legal reasons, we
haven't been able to put that in the book. Uh.
But there are stories that I'm still trying to to
(41:03):
provide enough evidence that we can put them in the paperback.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah, I know what you mean that there are these
young ladies out there, different names involved that they don't
the stories are fairly well known. But it seems like
they've made an agreement, they've gotten an n DA, they've
gotten a payoff, and they're not going to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
But yes, well that was very problem. Yes, it is.
It is the NDAs and and and you know a
lot of people were paid off.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
And you know are frightened. You know they've now got
they've now moved on. They don't really want to revisit this.
There's nothing in it for them. Uh. And so that's why,
you know, the courage of people at Virginia Jiffrey to
come forward has to be respected even more.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
And you can't blame you have to respect their their decisions.
You can't blame these people. You know, they were young,
they got involved in this crazy situation, and now they've
got a nice settlement. Why stick your neck out, and
why there's really no reason why to piss these people off,
Which brings me to another question. Because I lived in
Las Vegas for many, many years and certain royals signs
(42:05):
would come to town and there's even photographs. I might
as well say it, Harry, you know, there's nude pictures
in him okay with these women all over Vegas, And
I would know a lot of these women who are
at these parties and stuff like that, but they're all
afraid to talk about it. What is it? What kind
of thugs does the royal family have running around there
intimidating people?
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Well, I mean, clearly, it's very effective. I mean they
have you know, it's old that they should have that
power in the States, particularly with girls like that you
would have thought would be selling their story, but they're clearly.
I think that often the mainstream media don't feel they
can run these stories because of pressure that can be put.
I mean, if we think of ABC Television didn't run
(42:47):
material on Jeffrey because they were threatened that they would
lose access to to do interviews with the royals. So
I think the pressure gets put on the mainstream media maybe,
But you know, there are shows like yours that you
know might perhaps run these stories now, and of course,
you know the social media, there's that there's no reason
why people couldn't now get some of these stories out.
(43:10):
But clearly they can put pressure. I don't know what
their instruments are, but it's clearly very effective.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, and I've even had authors on the show that
there's information in their book, but then I guess something
happens after the book is published and they have some
kind of incentive or motivation not to talk about stuff
that's actually in the book. You know what I mean,
the pr control the money these people have, which is
we were talking to about the citizen researcher and the
(43:40):
average guy and the podcast out there, who's digging up
all this information. But when when they're getting their information,
let's say, from Google. And now we find out that
the two founders of Google were actually clients of Epstein
through JP Morgan. How much can we trust that information?
How much information have you found in this story? Is
(44:00):
this information being put out by the other side?
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah, Well, that's always the big worry. Trying to evaluate material.
I've often getting contradictory material, material doesn't fit, you know,
one's perceived narrative very difficult. You know, a lot of
the stuff is very well disguised, and you know there
are a lot of things, you know, false trails that
are laid often to try and discredit, you know, the
researcher who might buy into it, or to take them off,
(44:27):
divert them as into a red herring. So we don't
know what we don't know. We don't know what we
don't know that has been been put there to to
to kind of muddy the waters. I think it's only
a matter of time, you know, time perhaps things, more
things will emerge that will confirm or under contradict the stories.
(44:50):
I mean, certainly the stuff that I've put in the book,
which I've now done interviews with people. I mean minor things,
but you know, there was a home. There was a
house warming party for the property. They were given as
a present by the Queen's sunning hill. I said that
there were tiger fake tigers, and the trees and the
witchesses were dressed in leopard skin outfits. And actually I
(45:12):
then interued someone who said he was at the party
and that wasn't true. So that's a good case where
you know, as you go on. As new things come out,
you can actually slightly adjust what you what you wrote.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
And it's so important too. I felt like Andrew Loungy Larry,
who has that kind of maturity when when the new
information comes to you, Okay, correct it, you know what
I mean? It's and why not? We can't let our
egos get violent. If new information comes in, great, got
new information, it contradicts my old information. We should all
be happy with that.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
You know, yes, no, absolutely one wants to be as
fair and accurate as possible. And you know none of
us get it totally right. You know, we're all taken
in or get things wrong. So you know, one hopes
eventually bias. You know that we do eventually that there
is a proper version at the end because people, people
do make corrections. And actually, when you know what one
wants to be fair to these people, I mean, they're
(46:05):
living people. They haven't always behaved very well, but let's
give them credit sometimes when when things you know aren't
quite as bad as they're painted.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
You see this photograph of Epstein where he's wearing this
white naval uniform as some kind of a masquerade party.
Right now, that's involving Harvey Weinstein was Weinstein also hooked
up with Andrew.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yes, I mean there's a famous picture. It's actually in
the book. It's it's the eighteenth birthday party of Beatrice,
the daughter of Andrew, at Windsor Castle, and Harvey Weinstein
is one of the guests. I mean, there's a picture
it's him, Epstein, and Galeine. All three of them ended
up in prison, and that just gives an indication of
the sort of dodgy people that the Yorks were mixing with.
(46:52):
I mean, there's another picture of Sarah with P Diddy.
But they went and you know, visited Peter Nigod, who
has I think got various charge has been leveled against him.
You know, they they didn't seem to do any due
diligence about people's backgrounds, because often it was quite well
known that they were, you know, had had been often
charged with offenses that you know, really would would make
(47:16):
any association very embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Yeah, there's some three hundred pictures of Trump with P Diddy,
and there's some very very interesting pictures of Ivana Trump,
his first wife, with P Diddy where they look like
they look like they're just they're having the time with
their life, okay, and you hardly see those pictures post
(47:39):
it anywhere, man, and it's right there right in front
of you. What is it that you'd think that the royals, though,
would have some kind of uh uh control over their
image and and to have like Kevin Spacey coming to
to the and taking pictures in thrones, how do they
allow that?
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Well, the picture on the throne in Bucking Palace is
extraordinary because I mean Andrew would have been there. There
would have been court officials who would have opened the
doors and put on the lights, and you would have
thought that would be reported back. You would have thought
there would be production officers who would have seized the
cameras and destroyed the film. Good question. I mean, I
(48:20):
think one of the things that Andrew did was he
didn't like any sort of scrutiny in security. He didn't
like the fact that he had to sign in his
girlfriends when they were going into the palace, many of
whom were escorts, and he would make a fast go
to the queen to the extent that policemen eventually let
some of these women through. I mean, it was a
big security concern. You know, no one knew who they were,
(48:43):
and clearly people turned a blind eye to this. I
suppose Peter allowed to have their you know, iPhones and
pictures were taken. But some of these pictures are quite
old and no one questioned it. But to have these
people going around the palace without being properly a score,
it does seem very unusual.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah, and then the pictures of Epstein and Maxwell had
that cabin that's Monte Clora.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
It's called uh well exactly. They stayed up at Balmoral,
and we we forget that. You know, a lot of
these people were entertained by the Queen and Prince and
King Charles. So you know there's a businessman who did
a lot of business with Andrew called David Rowlands, and
he would have tea with the Queen. Epstein never quite
got there, but I think it was only a matter
(49:30):
of time. So you know, the family was sort of
drawn into to these associations, you know, which now have
proved to be pretty embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Yeah, like Jimmy Saville, you know, like there was no
secret with this guy was up to either. It seems
to be more prevalent than it is not.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Yeah, I mean, just very poor judgment. You know, these
people you know, work their way in, often using you know,
charities they I think the Royal family felt they were
popular figures and therefore they benefited from being associated with them.
But you know they must have known, particularly through the
intelligence services, what this story was and that they should
be keeping a distance. You know, you don't see Prince William,
(50:14):
for example, associating with people like that. You know, he
clearly has a much better sense of you know, who
you should be mixing with and who should be seen with.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
Okay, Andrew Lowney, what are you going to work on next? Man?
We hedge on about Mount Barton. That was some great stuff.
I encourage you audience to go back and find that
Mount Barton show we did with Andrew Lowney great stuff.
What are you working on next man?
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Well, I think the poor ol Royal family are in
for another shop because I'm doing Prince Andrew's father, Prince Philip,
who I have a great deal of admiration for. But
it's also going to look at all the affairs Prince
Philip had. It's called his Lives and Loves, and no
one has ever really so far dared look at at
the extramarital affairs that Philip had through fifty year sixty years,
(51:01):
so I think that should get quite a little of attention.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
I tell you you don't slow it down, huh.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
I'm a sucker for punishment.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
You're a thorn in the side of the Royals. Andrew
Lowney you can find him at Andrew Lowney dot me
and that has all his appearances, upcoming appearances and stuff.
He's going to be in the United States the first
week of December, which is right around the corner man.
Christmas coming right up, so hopefully you can catch him
in town there. This book is called entitled The Rise
and Fall of the House of York and still is
(51:33):
four stars, so even with the bots, like you said,
it's not as four star reviews. So you can't keep
a good man down. Mister Lowney. God, thank you so much, man,
great stuff.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Well, thank you. It's always a pleasure to talk to.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
You, it really is.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Man.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Keep in touch, thank you.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
Thanks a long good night, good night.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Have you have
It's the Opperman Report, and now here is Investigator Opperman. Okay,
welcome to the Opperman Report. I'm your host, Private investigator
Ed Opperman. You get a hold of me at Opperman
Investigations and Digital Friends and Consulting if you reach out
to me through my email Opperman Investigations at gmail dot com.
(00:22):
If you like our show every Friday night Speaker dot
com from eight pm to eleven pm, three hours of
brand new content, two hours of interviews and one hour
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when we put up new content. And if you go
there and look up our guests today Andrew Lowney, you'll
find our previous interviews we've done with them. He had
(00:45):
a great book before this one we're going to be
talking about today about the Lord Mountbotten. Now that one
got great response on our show. But he's back better
than ever before. And the new book is called entitled
The Eyes and Fall of the House of York. And
of course his website is Andrew Lownie dot me. You
(01:06):
go there you find out all is upcoming speaking gigs.
Mister Lownee, are you there.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I'm here ready and waiting.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Hey, great, Thank you so much. I know it's been
a long day. Man. You got a lot of energy
for an old guy.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Well, I mean, it's very exciting. I'm so grateful for
the interest, and it's very stimulating for me to have
this response. And of course, you know, things are happening
literally day by day, new disclosures, So it's and doing
shows like this is really important to me because as
often how I pick up my information. I don't know
if it's the same with you, but people, I mean,
(01:41):
one of the disclosures this week was the fact that
Fergie had continued her association with Epstein long after she
claimed to cut links. And I had evidence because someone
had dog Walker in New York had seen her coming
out of Epstein's flats years after she claimed to cut contact.
And that came just on a podcast, and she wrote
in a comment, So it's it's I'm always really grateful
(02:03):
to listeners and viewers for any of their contributions.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Oh yeah, there's so much interest in this topic. It's
just it's incredible. But before we get into the note
book here entitled The Rise and Fall of the House
of York, tell us about yourself. Remind the audience who
is Andrew Lowney.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Well, I've been a literary agent for the last forty
forty five years. I've trained as a historian, first at
Cambridge and then did my doctorate at Envy University. I'm
a great believer in freedom information. I'm a trustee of
the Campaign for Freedom Information. But alongside my career as
a literary agent, I've been writing books. I started off
writing literary biography, so one was of John Buckan, the
(02:41):
author of the Thirty nine Steps. Then I did a
book about a spy in the Cambridge Spiring with Philbey,
called Guy Burgess, and then I sort of gravitated towards
royal books. So I did that book on Lord mount Batten,
which you kindly talked to me about, who was the
uncle of Prince Philip. And from that that kind of
moved to Trey to King, basically arguing that Edward the
(03:03):
eighth was a Nazi and that the love affair with
Waller Simpson was actually a bit of an excuse to
get him off the throne. And now I've done the
first book on living a living Royal, which of course
is much more difficult. Their legal problems with that, there
are no documents I rely on. Interviews are very different
training to the one I had, But this has proved
(03:23):
to be very timely because you know, more and more
stuff has been coming out about Epstein. What I've sort
of found with the book is a joint biography of
Fergie and Andrew. It's like all the previous books, it
looks through at the people through the prism of their marriages.
Is that you know, not only are they not the
happiest divorced couple ever, but there is a very interesting
(03:46):
financial scandal here which I think tends to get ignored
by the focus on Epstein. And it's how both of
them have monetized their position in the Royal family for
their own personal financial gain, and how that was helped
by other men the royal family, including the Queen, and
that to me was pretty shocking. We've always assumed the
Queen put the monarchy ahead of her own family, and
(04:07):
yet here she is colluding with Andrew, particularly when he
had a role as a trade envoy on behalf of
Britain to line his own pocket.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Why would it be necessary for a member of the
royal family to line their own pocket. Don't they have
all access to all that wealth as it.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Is well, the monarch and the heir to the throne
have access to very lucrative the Duchy of Lancaster and
the Duchess Duchy of Cornwall. But actually other members of
the royal family I mean are clearly very privileged. They
live in large houses, They inherit a lot of money
which is passed down through the ages. We don't know
(04:44):
how much because the Royal wills are sealed. But I
think the problem with Andrew and Fergie is that they
got used to very expensive jet set lifestyles and in
order to keep up with their friends, they began to
just spend wildly. They needed to, you know, they needed
to to basically find other sources of income. And this
(05:05):
is some you know, where the problems lay. But they
were forced to consort with all sorts of people that
they shouldn't have consorted with.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I remember doing it, and if you previously it might
even have been with you. And that Andrew was involved
in arms dealing.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, certainly when he had this role as a trade
envoy between two thousand and one and twenty eleven representing
you know, the British government, there were you know, he
was negotiating arms deals, and in fact was very upset
when the Syrias Fraud Office looked at some of these deals.
He didn't think they should be doing that, but you
know that was part of his job. That's fair enough.
(05:42):
But I think the concern is that he was doing
side deals for himself, possibly in oil and gas. Possibly
he was as rumors he ran a golf complex on
the Caspian Sea. So that's I think where the concerns lie.
And clearly Fergie has been doing what Markel has been
trying to do, but Fergie's done it much more successfully
(06:03):
for thirty years, which is to use her royal position
to promote everything from weight watchers and Wedgewood China through
to Cranberry juice, to be writing books, to do diets, blenders,
you name it, pens. I think she was doing jams
and staff biscuits long before Meghan got there, So in
(06:25):
some ways, you know, Meghan had had a prototype she
could follow.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
It sounds like Trump, except for the blenders. I don't
think we have a Trump blender yet, but we'll be
waiting for that one. Waiting for that one.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Uh, How did they make their money? How were they
supposed to legitimately make their money then without all these
tacky well.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I mean when you were when you were working royal,
you'll give them money to cover your expenses, your staff. They,
as I say, inherited money through from for example, grandmother,
the Queen mother. Money I think was passed to Andrews
through his mother the Queen. So I mean they're not
sure of a penny. I mean, they live in very
large houses, they have their staff run for them, and
(07:09):
even if they're non working roles, they have a pretty
luxurious lifestyle and most people in the royal family are
pretty content with that. I think the problem was, you know,
they don't necessarily go by private jet too often. The
problem is that Andrew and Fergie kind of want to
go by private jet all the time, even if it's
just down the road, and that costs money. But you know,
(07:30):
they and they you know, very keen on freebies. They
like given you know, free cars, free holidays, often given
gifts which you know, again it's very difficult to check.
But I think they just got greedy and they thought
they could just get away with it, and they have
got away with it until now. If you hadn't had
(07:51):
Virginia Jeffrey come forward, we wouldn't probably be looking at
all this.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, I was going to ask you about that, but
before we get to that, because you know me, coming
from America, I've never been a big fan of royals
and stuff. How do they fit into the royal family, like,
they're not the son of King Charles?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Where they involved, well, Prince Andrew was second in line
to the throne. He is the youngest son, a younger
brother of King Charles. He's the second son of the queen,
so you know he from until nineteen eighty two when
William was born, he was basically the backup and if
anything had happened to Charles, he would have been king.
(08:35):
And he thought he might well be regent until William
came and even after William was born, that he would
be regent until William became eighteen. And Sarah Ferguson I
think also had that belief that if and that's why
she kind of stuck with Andrew. I mean even now
he is eighth in line. So we have the children
of William who are in line but cually too young
(08:57):
should there be should something happen, and so we have
a position actually where if William and Charles, for example,
were traveling together and died. The next person who would
become king would be Prince Harry. And if Harry said,
look I live in the States, I don't want to
do this, the next person would have been Andrew. So
he's still quite an important royal. When he goes to things,
(09:19):
he expects to be at, you know, the front to
front row. So he's not some minor figure. And this
is why it's so embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
And he was removed from that secession because of I
know they called him Randy and the even before Drew
Free And what was his reputation before this came out
with Epstein.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, Andrew never didn't have a good reputation. And he
came back from fighting in the Falklands War in nineteen
eighty two and that was probably the peak of his reputation.
Everyone saw him as this hero who had gone out
and done his bit. But very quickly that all changed.
There was an episode in Los Angeles where he turned
a paint gun on the on the press, causing thousands
(09:59):
of pounds of damage to their camera equipment and their clothes.
And he you know, he's been full of these sort
of mistakes, mistakes, but you know, he quickly got the reputation,
as you say, of being Randy Andy, of being known
as as someone who was just interested in the playboy
lifestyle and picking up girls. He then got a reputation
as the air Miles Andy, of of of of using
(10:22):
you know, aircraft, private aircraft whenever he could at public expense,
because of course the taxpayer was paying for it. You know,
he's he's he's not been a popular figure. But I
think the Epstein episode was really when things began to
become very serious for him, because people kind of put
up with, you know, his antics. But to be involved
(10:42):
and supportive of a man who was convicted with the
offenses that he had been convicted of, I think didn't
play very well with the public. M m.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
And then what what was it about? I remember the
marriage to Ferguson, I remember that, But then what was
it that sour the public on there and caused the
solution of their marriage?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
I think there were several things. There was a sense
that Sarah Ferguson wasn't pulling a weight, that she was
known as freebie Fergie, she was always on holidays, she
was a roll of batty. She was also called fruitcake Fergie.
There was I think concerned that she was pretty vulgar,
that she, you know, was a breadth, had what was
(11:26):
seen to be a breath of fresh air now seemed
to be pretty sort of bringing the monarchy into disrepute
and very undignified. There was a famous episode which they
took part in the game show where they got dressed
up and in historical outfits and people raced up and down,
and people felt that wasn't very good, but you know,
it was for charity, and I think, you know, people
(11:49):
criticized her for her dress, sense, for her that she
was overweight, She was seen to be indiscreet and disloyal
in some respects. So the whole narrative and the media
support for her changed and it's never really fully recovered.
I mean, people respected her after her divorce. The divorce
(12:10):
happened because they basically were not very compatible. They didn't
see much of each other. He was often at sea
because he was in the navy. They both of them
began to have affairs quite early, and then she was
caught having an affair with someone in the South of France.
It was all over the newspapers and at that point
the Queen said, look, you know, you need to to
(12:30):
separate and eventually get divorced. And then of course once
she was divorced, she was always desperate to support herself.
Even though she had quite a good divorce settlement, you know,
she never had enough and that's why she began to
do more and more embarrassing things. She'd go and open
shopping malls, she would be paid to attend events, she
(12:52):
charged huge sums to give speeches, and she kind of
mixed it up with charity work. It was never very
clear what the dividing lines were between the charity and
the business opportunities for her, and so none of that
played very well in Britain. In America she was always
a bit more popular. She was seen as a great survivor,
as someone who had stood up to the sort of
(13:12):
palace establishment, and she was very good at painting herself
as a victims. She'd appear on Oprah or another show.
She you know, had charm. I think admired people admired
the fact that she was in effect a single mum
and she was, you know, making the best of the situation.
But that was a little bit of a sort of
fake profile. You know, the royal family, the Queen actually
(13:35):
paid off huge sums for her of her debts. She
was actually quite heavily supported by them, both emotionally and
financially so, but she was very good at creating this
slightly fake picture and lots of people brought into it.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
How unusual is that, like historically for divorce to be
in the royal family. I know what happened with the Diana,
but ever before.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Well, yes, we'd had. I think that the first time
clearly had happened was with the abdication, and that's how
it all happened. In nineteen thirty six, Edward the eighth
couldn't become king as the head of the Church of
England because he wanted to marry a divorce woman, so
that was and he wasn't allowed to become king. We
then had the experience with Margaret, the sister of the
(14:20):
Queen Elizabeth, Princess Margaret, who did divorce her husband, Lord Snowden,
I think in the nineteen seventies or eighties, so that
was the first of the divorces. I mean there have
been people on the periphery, cousins and people like that,
but then Dinah was the big one because clearly that
was the heir to the throne, and then Andrew was
also a big one. But Andrew actually came before Dina.
(14:43):
Dina and Fergie had said we'll go out together and
we'll sort of support each other. And in fact, then
Diana did a pulled a fast one on on Fergie
and she kind of left Fergie to do it first.
So we've now seen three of the queen's children get divorced,
(15:03):
because of course there was also Princess Anne who divorced
her husband. So you know, it's not that unusual. Now
three of the four children are divorced, but nothing like
this had really happened until until basically the nineteen eighties
and nineteen nineties.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Well, what do you make of that recent revelation where
Gilaine Maxwell said that Prince died Diana was fixed up
with Jeffrey Epstein on a date.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I think that's that's that's probably true. You know, I
don't believe everything Gilaine said. I mean, she she claimed that,
you know, Trump isn't anywhere in the Epstein papers, which
I don't believe for a minute. But I think, you know,
the fact that Diana was that Epstein was was attracted
to Diana doesn't surprise me. The fact that that actually
the connection between Epstein and the royal family may have
(15:50):
come through Fergie doesn't surprise me. So, you know, it
would be wonderful if Gilaine gave another interview, because I mean,
she knows where all the bodies buried, she knows the
false story. But I you know, given that, you know,
she's kind of done her bit and got her reward,
I can't see her giving another interview.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
What about Fergie. Wouldn't she be motivated by money to
give an interview now as well?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Well, I think that's very likely. I mean, she has
been paid large sorts of money in the past to
give interviews, and you know, her reputations at rock bottom.
She may be looking to try and justify herself. I
mean clearly Andrew did try to do that with his
Newsnight interview and that backfired on him. So she has
to be careful how she does it. It has to
be carefully controlled interview, and there will be people like
(16:38):
me who have been studying her who may say, well,
you know, this isn't quite the story that's pictured, but
she she's presented a picture. You know. The narrative so
far has always been my mother ran away with a
polo player when I was thirteen. I've had low self esteem,
I've overeaten, I suffered as a result of this, and
(16:59):
of course I might, but I've learned from my mistakes.
It won't happen again. And then of course she goes
and does the whole thing all over again immediately after that.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
But you believe that she was the first one to
come into contact with Maxwell and Epstein.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
I have this suspicion that Glaine and Fergie were big
society figures in New York in the nineteen eighties and
nineteen nineties, and I think that's how the children would
have met. Glainne clearly had been the girlfriend of Epstein,
and I think would have perhaps seen the opportunities by
introducing Epstein to the royal family, and he would have
(17:34):
done it through Fergie. I think that that makes a
lot of sense to me. And of course, you know,
having the status and respectability being associated with the royal
family was exactly what Epstein wanted. I think he describes
Andrew and President Clinton being his Super Bowl trophies, and
then what.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Was in it for them? What was in it for
Andrew to be associated with Epstein?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
The well, lots of things. Epstein was paying off Fergie's debts.
Some that's been quoted as fifteen thousand, but I think
it's more likely to bean two million pounds of debts.
Epstein provided a ready supply of young woman for Andrew,
and he provided some useful contacts for him. So they
(18:20):
shared contacts and they became very, very good friends. They
shared the same sort of sexual tastes, the same desire
to make money, the same lack of moral boundaries. So
it was a good arrangement. And for Epstein, you know,
he got to stay at bell Moral and going to
sit in the throne at bucking And Palace. It was
a great calling card for him to have pictures of
(18:42):
him with Prince Andrew.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Now, when I heard you were writing this book about Andrew,
I sent you an email and I says, hey, Andrew,
I stumbled on his information about Harlan Crowe's brother, who
has his own sex trafficking allegations, and yeah, right, okay,
they he said, oh yea, I'm already working on it.
Don't worry about it. But what do you go it?
How does that fit into the timeline? Though? Because I
(19:06):
know he offered lodging he offered a home to I
believe both Fergie and Andrew. So they were already on
the outs when they were together. They were already having
money proms and problems with the Royal family when they
were still married.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Sorry, so Travel offered the money or Epstein offered the money.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
No, my understanding is Travel offered Fergie and Andrew a
home to live in.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Well, you know more than I do. I mean I
approached Tremble and indeed lawyers connected with the case. But
certainly he was sponsoring Fergie, he was paying paying her
under the guys that she was a brand manager, a
brand ambassador for one of his products. But you know, again,
you know, being able to say you're associated with the
(19:53):
royals can be probably a good business decision. So that
doesn't surprise me. That's interesting and the reason. But you know,
there were short of money when they were married, and
there were short of money after they got divorced. They
were married in eighty six, they separated in ninety two.
They got divorced in ninety six, but actually they remained
living together and remained and still lived together. But they
(20:15):
operate very much as a team, particularly for their business operations,
and so money you know, from Trammel to either of
them would have been very welcome because of you know,
as I say, they have this extravagant lifestyle, extensive staffs.
You know, they have to stay in the smartest hotels,
go to the best restaurants, they drink the best wines,
(20:36):
and that of course costs money.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
So there is a publicly recorded business transactions dealings between
Fergie and Trammel, Trammel Crown.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
I had some difficulty finding. I mean, there's been a
little bit of coverage, so I mean, I'd love to
talk to you further about it, but I found that,
you know, no one was prepared to talk about any
relationship they had because there was also meant to be
a romance relationship, and Fergie has this habit of sort
of kind of falling in love with her business partners.
(21:08):
But the problems I just couldn't couldn't nail the story.
So if if you've got information, i'd be you know,
I'd love to talk to you about it further. But
you know, my memory, my memory, Well, I'm sure you
have extensive files. I'm sure you know, with your investigative skills,
you've probably found lots of things that I've missed, or
indeed some of your listeners and viewers may may know
(21:29):
stories that perhaps haven't appeared.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
That's a good question. We were talking about this off
the air a bit. It's amazing how this subject has
fascinated so many people, armchair detectives and researchers, that the
average person is really, really, really doing a lot of
interesting work digging up there in this situation.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Right, Yes, it is. I mean, I think it's interesting.
The mainstream media sometimes slightly nervous for legal reasons or whatever,
to to to dig too deeply. But you know, there
are podcasts like yours, investigators like you. But I think
also social media. I mean, we have now got a
sort of citizen a citizen journalism where people are asking
some really good questions, doing some research themselves, and they're
(22:10):
pushing the story forward. And that's great. You know, it
means that the narrative can't be controlled in the way
it was so.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Now, when you were working on this book Entitle The
Rise and Fall of the House of York, how much
pushback did you get from the royal family. I understand
you had some proms right.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Well before the book came out. Sarah Ferguson's lawyers wrote
to the publisher saying that, you know, if there was
anything that was libelous, they would come after us. They
were saying that we're monitoring my social media. If I
said anything, for example, I would be in trouble. So
they were sort of trying to be pretty intimidating, but
we were very careful what we put in the book.
(22:48):
The Yorks told all their friends not to talk to me,
The Foreign Office told diplomats not to talk to me.
All my attempts to get access to documentation which should
be in our British national arch was I couldn't get
hold of it, and no one seemed to know where
these documents were. So I found that, I mean, my
(23:09):
American contract with a bit of large American publisher was
canceled a few weeks before publication. I found that interviews
I did never ran. A number of papers and organizations
haven't covered the book at all. I've had a plethora
of one star reviews or ratings on Amazon which I've
never had before, which people people have said have been
(23:32):
generated by bots or by through a PR firm. So yeah,
they've tried, you know, they have tried to discredit the
book and me. But the great thing is that you know,
you know more people. They can only do so much,
and people you know, seem to have liked the book.
It's had some impact. It was number one in Britain
for many weeks. And you know, as the story continues
(23:53):
to develop, many of the things that I was saying
have proved to be true. Many the things that were
taken out by lawyers, I'm now able to put back
in because again I was proved or my sources were
proved to be correct. So things that we found pretty
bad and you KNOWLT just couldn't believe actually have proved
to be absolutely correct.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
So they did force you to take some stuff out
there before you published.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yes, Trump put pressure on the News Corps, who are
the sort of head company for William Collins, and I
think they took the view not that the material wasn't accurate,
which it is, but that it was just it would
just save a lot of time and legal expense if
they just took it out. And you know, by that stage,
(24:42):
actually about sixty thousand copies of the book had been published,
so there are plenty of copies running around with the
information I put in about the relationship between Millennia and Epstein.
I don't think it's a secret, so it seemed a
pretty pointless gesture. But I can understand why they did that.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Know, if you're taking a trip, you said, you're coming
to America in the first week at December, are you
concerned because you know they've grabbing people at the border
and it's serious business down here these days.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Well, I think that I have been warned about that,
and that is the risk. But you know, I'm hoping
to appear on various programs. There's research I want to do,
people I want to meet, and I'm just going to
see how it goes. But I'm certainly not going to
be intimidated.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
It's a shame we even have to have this kind
of discussion and talk about this thing. What would mister
Trump be worried about? It's in your book. I know
Andrew Lowney is a very serious investigator, very serious reporter.
He doesn't throw around things lightly. What would mister Trump
be upset? That's in your book?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Well, I think you didn't like, you know, the fact
that Milanio was involved with Epstein before Trump. There are
some comments about which I picked up from a British
official at the consulate in New York about some pretty
sort of locker room got talk between Trump and Andrew
which he didn't like the sound off. I mean, it's
(26:05):
there plenty of examples of Trump talking like that, so
it's not And in fact, this this diplomat is prepared
to go on the record on on what he heard
the three of them in the room. But you know,
it's it was, it was a sort of it's one
line in the book. It's it's not really the focus
of the book. So I don't mind too much about that.
(26:26):
But yeah, clearly Trump is a bit of a big
baby and he doesn't like anyone say anything about him.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Now, what is your sort? Who is your source? This
diplomat you said, is a source of Millennia dating Epstein.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Uh. The the source for the locker room conversation is
the diplomat who's gone, who's going on record, the source
of information about the relationship between Millennia and Epstein.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
And in fact that Epstein introduced Millennia to Trump comes
from Epstein himself, an interview he did with a documentary filmmaker.
And but I think you know, Michael Wolfe has interviewed
Eve Steen, and I think he said very similar things
that James Carvill has said things like this. Hunter Biden,
I think, has refused to back down with various accusations
(27:10):
about Millennia's private life and Trump. So you know, it's
not a unique story in some ways, which is why
it was odd that he should should be so cross
about it. But I think it was the time the
Wall Street Journal was being sued by Trump and they
just felt they didn't want any more.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
I grew, Yeah, well, they made those big threats to
sue Hunter Biden and nothing came of that, you know,
and even Carvil did kind of back down. What about
Paolo Zampoli? Did you come run across his name and
all this research?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
No, that's a new name to me. Tell me more.
I'm learning more on this interview than you are.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Polo zam Poli is the fellow. In fact, we just
did a show about the last name with a great guy,
Andrew Anthony Andrews has been researching Palo Zampolli. He's the
one that brought Millennia over on her HB one visa
as a modeling. He's the one that brought her over
and he's he says he introduced Milania to.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yes, that's the story. Yeah, so yeah, so, I mean,
you know, recollections can vary. You know, you're absolutely right.
I mean Epstein has told this story. It may not
be true. It may have been to wind Trump up,
and that's of course always the danger. I mean, just
because someone tells you something doesn't mean it's true. But certainly,
what this my source said is that Epstein you had
(28:26):
a good relationship with him. He was talking to him
in a very open and honest way. So, you know,
more digging needs to be done. But I clearly need
to watch that program and see what's been said that.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
I was also awarded with the business ambassadorship to the
U N by mister Trump.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Right, yes, some motivations, right, yes, well exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, but he was around early on and he seems
to have a lot of connections to all these fellows
to us, Epstein as well as well as Casablancas and
General Brunell and that whole crowd to as well. What
is the how far back do Trump and Andrew go?
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Well, that's a very good question. I mean there's certainly
pictures of them around two thousand. I mean, the Andrews
at parties at mar Lago. Uh, it's and we have
pictures with with Epstein Andrew and and Trump. The it's
very difficult to tell, I have to say, and I
(29:25):
need to do a little bit more research, probably there
because I suspect there was there was more contact than
is available in the published sources. But yeah, I just
don't know. I mean, Trump now pretends that he never
doesn't know Andrew, but I mean there's plenty, plenty of evidence,
with photographic evidence and and and other evidence of them
(29:47):
knowing each other. But it's you know, a relationship, a
very good relationship which in some ways, if if Andrew
wasn't such a discredited figure now, he would have been
playing I think a pretty major role at the stage
visit only a few weeks ago. But that's one of
the big questions. And again other people may have done
some work on this, they may have discovered stuff on it,
(30:11):
but yeah, certainly two of the year two thousand.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, it's very first of all that that picture from
two thousand at Mara a Lago was discovered by my
friend Pierce Redmond and at the time, yeah, and at
the time we could only find get this we did
a docusearch and we could only find the caption that
it was Andrew and Trump at Mara a Lago. We
couldn't find the picture to go with it. The picture
wasn't found actually months later. Fascinating, right, it was very
(30:38):
interesting buried there for a while. And even more interesting
is the most recent picture of Andrew and Trump together
over there in England where they're smiling in there, laughing.
That's the night before Epstein was arrested.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Gosh, oh, that's the nights and he then came back
and was picked up on the on the tarmacs. Right,
little did he know?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah, but things that maybe they thought they were laughing about,
you know, just very and who knows, you know, what
else are we going to find in this book here
entitled The Rise and Fall of the House of York.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Well, I think you know that that's the relationship is
say with Epstein, for both Andrew and Sarah began earlier,
lasted longer, was what was much more extensive than I
think has been on. They stick a basis at the
home in Manhattan. They had a suite of rooms called
the Brittannia Suite. Sarah actually went to the to the Island,
(31:37):
as well as to Palm Beach and to the house
in Manhattan. So I think there's you know, there's there's
more stuff clearly on the relationship with Epstein, and I
think more stuff will emerge. There's clearly a lot about
their extravagant lifestyles and the waste, the way they wasted money,
the way they've been making money by, as I say,
monetizing their role position. I think there's the story of
(31:58):
Andrew as the trade envoy between two thousand and one
and twenty eleven and how he basically was promoting himself
rather than British trade. And there are also of stories
there about basically taking commissions of shoehorning in people like Epstein,
two meetings to promote British trade which were actually to
(32:20):
promote Epstein's own businesses. There's a little bit about Andrew's
naval career, which wasn't very successful. So it is a
joint biography of the two of them. It's about a
four from Grace and how this couple, who were very
popular at the time of their wedding become these pariahs
now and the damage that they're going to do to
(32:41):
the reputation of the monarchy by the way they've behaved,
and it will continue unless somehow King Charles deals with them.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
And you believe that Fergie was actually closer to Epstein
than Andrew was.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Well, Fergie certainly had more numbers in the Black Books.
She had eighteen numbers, Andrew only had sixteen. But yes,
I mean, you know, we don't see her on the
Lilita flights, but we only have some information about the
Lilita flights. She certainly was close to Epstein, and many
of the people in her own close social circle were
(33:18):
close to Epstein. And in fact, there's some suggestion that
Andrew was introducing, particularly some of his former girlfriends to Epstein,
who was then using them I don't know how, but
possibly as bait for some of the people that he
was drawing into a sort of honeytraps and collecting compromat.
So I think you know that they've always worked very
(33:41):
closely together, even when she was trying to sell access
to him, and she kind of distanced that. He said
he wasn't involved. He was definitely involved in that. But again,
you know, once the Virginia Jeffrey book comes out next month,
once we have maybe some more victims talking in Capital
Hell about it. Once we have maybe more leaked emails,
(34:03):
the situation may become a bit clearer.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, has anything new come out? Sin since the book
came out? Have you found anything new in these leaked
emails and the documents that came out?
Speaker 2 (34:12):
How?
Speaker 1 (34:13):
What about that that Birthday book was? Is anything with
there or Prince Andrew in that book?
Speaker 2 (34:17):
There wasn't anything on Andrew in the Birthday Book. But
I think there are emails I understand which are going
to be made public which say more about Andrew. There's
some stuff that's appeared today about him paying for massers.
There's a story about Andrew taking Tom Pritzker of High
Hotels and Epstein to Sandringham. That's not actually an all
(34:39):
a news story. But you know, some of the stuff
is coming up from slightly different sources, backing up the
stories we've already had.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Well, what about you hear these stories about when Goofrie
was trying to assume Andrew that the Royals were running interference.
They weren't even allowing him to be served with subpoenas
and stuff like that, so on one end they were
helping him in these efforts.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Absolutely, you know, he refused to cooperate with any of
the victims' lawyers, indeed with Jeffrey Berman, who was the
prosecutor in New York, and he was trying to avoid
being served any of the summonses to the extent that
he was basically whisked away to bal Morale where they
clearly couldn't get to the gate. So that doesn't give
(35:25):
a suggestion of someone who is innocent. It certainly didn't
play very well in terms of optics, the fact that
he was trying to duck any sort of engagement with
people who often only wanted him to come and talk
to them and give them evidence that might help them
in other cases. And I think it's extraordinary that Sarah
Ferguson wasn't asked to give evidence. But I think all
(35:50):
the way through the law enforcement agencies, certainly in Britain
and I think also in the States, have just not
wanted to go here. They haven't opened investigations despite evidence
been presented to them that would justify investigations. The MPs
in Britain were calling for Andrew, for example, to be
investigated by the National Crime Agency twenty years ago, and
(36:11):
even the head of the Royal Protections Service AGA called
die Davis was asking for Andrew to be investigated because
of his Epstein connections. And that's true of Channel four
News here in Britain. And I think Virginia Jeffrey herself
as a victim. But you know, that's the problem. We
have a very obsequious and deferential institutions, whether it's the
(36:34):
press or the government or the law enforcement agencies, and
no one is ever going to do anything which would
be embarrassing by basically calling out behavior by members of
the royal family. And they know that, and that's how
they know they can get away with pretty outrageous behavior.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Now, the photograph of Virginia Roberts to do free with Andrew,
they steadfairstly say that that's a photoshopped a photograph. What's
the word over there in England? What's the average person
say about that? Does anybody believe them?
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I don't think any serious person believes it's photoshopped. I mean,
you couldn't photoshop the pictures at that time a true
so I mean, and you know, there's a plenty of
forensic evidence to show this is a genuine photo that
was developed Walmart three days later. There are lots of
people who saw the photo almost immediately, including her father,
(37:29):
her boyfriend, a very close friend of hers, Caroline Andreamo.
So but even you know, I had people have had
forensic experts. Look at the pictures, the nineteen pictures that
are available. If there's one copy with the FBI, the
FBI certainly don't think it's a fake. So if this
is just I'm afraid pr from paying people to try
(37:53):
and discredit Virginia Jeffrey. I mean, there's actually stuff in
the book about how Andrew Galaine and others ganged up
against Virginia Jiffrey to try and undermine her story. So
that kind of undermines their claim that they knew nothing
about her and never met her, and et cetera. You know,
they realized she was a real threat and she had
to be neutralized.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
You know, I remember too, this was a much bigger
story in England than it was here in the United States,
way back with Andrew. What made it come over here? When?
What made it get big in the United States?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
What was it the it's become big in the States,
because clearly, I mean less so on the Andrew story.
But I mean, I think people orangest in the British
royal family, I mean Glaine Maxwell and Sarah Fergus has
had a lot of time in New York. I think
we also have some of the names that have come
up with Epstein. I mean Bill Clinton, Bill Gates and
(38:49):
other names have been thrown up by the Black Book,
by the Elita flight logs, so there's clearly American connection there.
A number of American politicians have also their names have emerged,
So I think that's why it's become interesting. I think,
you know, Trump made this great declaration that he was
going to clear the swamp, that he was going to
open the Epstein files, that there was going to be
(39:11):
complete accountability and transparency, and then of course that didn't happen.
That course outraged a lot of his supporters, who thus
only realized that maybe he was part of the problem
rather than the solution. And I think that's how it's
it's it's got bigger and bigger. I think people just
fed up of being lied to. They've fed up with
the government, the goverment that's going on. We know that
(39:33):
Elon Musk has has made allegations against Trump. We know
that Pam Bondi says that there was material in there
on Trump, and yet now they've changed their tune. So
it's become a big question about, you know, trust in
the American government and where and you know, and trust
in the presidency. I think that's how it's grown. So
(39:53):
Andrew and Epstein is a sort of is part of
that story, but it's become much wider, so people realize
the networks were much greater. There were many more girls
traffic than we'll realized, and many more rich and powerful
men who have been compromised by Epstein.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Do we know of any other young ladies besides Jeffrey
who were victims of Andrew? Underage women that were victori
that have come out publicly that we know their names
it was litigation.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
No, we don't, and I think you know, basically a
lot of people were paid off a lot of people.
Clearly there were people who were asked in depositions if
they'd had sex with Andrew. Sarah Kellen I think was one,
Adriana Ross was another, and they took the Fifth Amendment.
(40:42):
So but we haven't had depositions or libel cases as
with Virginia Jeffrey. I do know of other women that
he slept with and I know of girls of fifteen
that he slept with, but again for legal reasons, we
haven't been able to put that in the book. Uh.
But there are stories that I'm still trying to to
(41:03):
provide enough evidence that we can put them in the paperback.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah, I know what you mean that there are these
young ladies out there, different names involved that they don't
the stories are fairly well known. But it seems like
they've made an agreement, they've gotten an n DA, they've
gotten a payoff, and they're not going to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
But yes, well that was very problem. Yes, it is.
It is the NDAs and and and you know a
lot of people were paid off.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
And you know are frightened. You know they've now got
they've now moved on. They don't really want to revisit this.
There's nothing in it for them. Uh. And so that's why,
you know, the courage of people at Virginia Jiffrey to
come forward has to be respected even more.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
And you can't blame you have to respect their their decisions.
You can't blame these people. You know, they were young,
they got involved in this crazy situation, and now they've
got a nice settlement. Why stick your neck out, and
why there's really no reason why to piss these people off,
Which brings me to another question. Because I lived in
Las Vegas for many, many years and certain royals signs
(42:05):
would come to town and there's even photographs. I might
as well say it, Harry, you know, there's nude pictures
in him okay with these women all over Vegas, And
I would know a lot of these women who are
at these parties and stuff like that, but they're all
afraid to talk about it. What is it? What kind
of thugs does the royal family have running around there
intimidating people?
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Well, I mean, clearly, it's very effective. I mean they
have you know, it's old that they should have that
power in the States, particularly with girls like that you
would have thought would be selling their story, but they're clearly.
I think that often the mainstream media don't feel they
can run these stories because of pressure that can be put.
I mean, if we think of ABC Television didn't run
(42:47):
material on Jeffrey because they were threatened that they would
lose access to to do interviews with the royals. So
I think the pressure gets put on the mainstream media maybe,
But you know, there are shows like yours that you
know might perhaps run these stories now, and of course,
you know the social media, there's that there's no reason
why people couldn't now get some of these stories out.
(43:10):
But clearly they can put pressure. I don't know what
their instruments are, but it's clearly very effective.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, and I've even had authors on the show that
there's information in their book, but then I guess something
happens after the book is published and they have some
kind of incentive or motivation not to talk about stuff
that's actually in the book. You know what I mean,
the pr control the money these people have, which is
we were talking to about the citizen researcher and the
(43:40):
average guy and the podcast out there, who's digging up
all this information. But when when they're getting their information,
let's say, from Google. And now we find out that
the two founders of Google were actually clients of Epstein
through JP Morgan. How much can we trust that information?
How much information have you found in this story? Is
(44:00):
this information being put out by the other side?
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah, Well, that's always the big worry. Trying to evaluate material.
I've often getting contradictory material, material doesn't fit, you know,
one's perceived narrative very difficult. You know, a lot of
the stuff is very well disguised, and you know there
are a lot of things, you know, false trails that
are laid often to try and discredit, you know, the
researcher who might buy into it, or to take them off,
(44:27):
divert them as into a red herring. So we don't
know what we don't know. We don't know what we
don't know that has been been put there to to
to kind of muddy the waters. I think it's only
a matter of time, you know, time perhaps things, more
things will emerge that will confirm or under contradict the stories.
(44:50):
I mean, certainly the stuff that I've put in the book,
which I've now done interviews with people. I mean minor things,
but you know, there was a home. There was a
house warming party for the property. They were given as
a present by the Queen's sunning hill. I said that
there were tiger fake tigers, and the trees and the
witchesses were dressed in leopard skin outfits. And actually I
(45:12):
then interued someone who said he was at the party
and that wasn't true. So that's a good case where
you know, as you go on. As new things come out,
you can actually slightly adjust what you what you wrote.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
And it's so important too. I felt like Andrew Loungy Larry,
who has that kind of maturity when when the new
information comes to you, Okay, correct it, you know what
I mean? It's and why not? We can't let our
egos get violent. If new information comes in, great, got
new information, it contradicts my old information. We should all
be happy with that.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
You know, yes, no, absolutely one wants to be as
fair and accurate as possible. And you know none of
us get it totally right. You know, we're all taken
in or get things wrong. So you know, one hopes
eventually bias. You know that we do eventually that there
is a proper version at the end because people, people
do make corrections. And actually, when you know what one
wants to be fair to these people, I mean, they're
(46:05):
living people. They haven't always behaved very well, but let's
give them credit sometimes when when things you know aren't
quite as bad as they're painted.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
You see this photograph of Epstein where he's wearing this
white naval uniform as some kind of a masquerade party.
Right now, that's involving Harvey Weinstein was Weinstein also hooked
up with Andrew.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yes, I mean there's a famous picture. It's actually in
the book. It's it's the eighteenth birthday party of Beatrice,
the daughter of Andrew, at Windsor Castle, and Harvey Weinstein
is one of the guests. I mean, there's a picture
it's him, Epstein, and Galeine. All three of them ended
up in prison, and that just gives an indication of
the sort of dodgy people that the Yorks were mixing with.
(46:52):
I mean, there's another picture of Sarah with P Diddy.
But they went and you know, visited Peter Nigod, who
has I think got various charge has been leveled against him.
You know, they they didn't seem to do any due
diligence about people's backgrounds, because often it was quite well
known that they were, you know, had had been often
charged with offenses that you know, really would would make
(47:16):
any association very embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Yeah, there's some three hundred pictures of Trump with P Diddy,
and there's some very very interesting pictures of Ivana Trump,
his first wife, with P Diddy where they look like
they look like they're just they're having the time with
their life, okay, and you hardly see those pictures post
(47:39):
it anywhere, man, and it's right there right in front
of you. What is it that you'd think that the royals, though,
would have some kind of uh uh control over their
image and and to have like Kevin Spacey coming to
to the and taking pictures in thrones, how do they
allow that?
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Well, the picture on the throne in Bucking Palace is
extraordinary because I mean Andrew would have been there. There
would have been court officials who would have opened the
doors and put on the lights, and you would have
thought that would be reported back. You would have thought
there would be production officers who would have seized the
cameras and destroyed the film. Good question. I mean, I
(48:20):
think one of the things that Andrew did was he
didn't like any sort of scrutiny in security. He didn't
like the fact that he had to sign in his
girlfriends when they were going into the palace, many of
whom were escorts, and he would make a fast go
to the queen to the extent that policemen eventually let
some of these women through. I mean, it was a
big security concern. You know, no one knew who they were,
(48:43):
and clearly people turned a blind eye to this. I
suppose Peter allowed to have their you know, iPhones and
pictures were taken. But some of these pictures are quite
old and no one questioned it. But to have these
people going around the palace without being properly a score,
it does seem very unusual.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah, and then the pictures of Epstein and Maxwell had
that cabin that's Monte Clora.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
It's called uh well exactly. They stayed up at Balmoral,
and we we forget that. You know, a lot of
these people were entertained by the Queen and Prince and
King Charles. So you know there's a businessman who did
a lot of business with Andrew called David Rowlands, and
he would have tea with the Queen. Epstein never quite
got there, but I think it was only a matter
(49:30):
of time. So you know, the family was sort of
drawn into to these associations, you know, which now have
proved to be pretty embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
Yeah, like Jimmy Saville, you know, like there was no
secret with this guy was up to either. It seems
to be more prevalent than it is not.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Yeah, I mean, just very poor judgment. You know, these
people you know, work their way in, often using you know,
charities they I think the Royal family felt they were
popular figures and therefore they benefited from being associated with them.
But you know they must have known, particularly through the
intelligence services, what this story was and that they should
be keeping a distance. You know, you don't see Prince William,
(50:14):
for example, associating with people like that. You know, he
clearly has a much better sense of you know, who
you should be mixing with and who should be seen with.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
Okay, Andrew Lowney, what are you going to work on next? Man?
We hedge on about Mount Barton. That was some great stuff.
I encourage you audience to go back and find that
Mount Barton show we did with Andrew Lowney great stuff.
What are you working on next man?
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Well, I think the poor ol Royal family are in
for another shop because I'm doing Prince Andrew's father, Prince Philip,
who I have a great deal of admiration for. But
it's also going to look at all the affairs Prince
Philip had. It's called his Lives and Loves, and no
one has ever really so far dared look at at
the extramarital affairs that Philip had through fifty year sixty years,
(51:01):
so I think that should get quite a little of attention.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
I tell you you don't slow it down, huh.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
I'm a sucker for punishment.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
You're a thorn in the side of the Royals. Andrew
Lowney you can find him at Andrew Lowney dot me
and that has all his appearances, upcoming appearances and stuff.
He's going to be in the United States the first
week of December, which is right around the corner man.
Christmas coming right up, so hopefully you can catch him
in town there. This book is called entitled The Rise
and Fall of the House of York and still is
(51:33):
four stars, so even with the bots, like you said,
it's not as four star reviews. So you can't keep
a good man down. Mister Lowney. God, thank you so much, man,
great stuff.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Well, thank you. It's always a pleasure to talk to.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
You, it really is.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Man.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Keep in touch, thank you.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
Thanks a long good night, good night.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Have you have
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