Kendall Carver International Cruise Victims AssociationPrivate

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Episode Transcript

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(02:37):
we've got a fascinating topic for you here. It's so
hard to believe. Our guest is a Kendall Carver and
he's a I don't know if he's a chairman of
the President' last me a second. The International Cruise Victims Association.
International Cruise Victims Association. Imagine that we need an association
for victims of cruises. You think of Captain Steubing and

(02:59):
the Love. You think there's a pleasure you're going to go.
They have a lot of fun. My daughter, my ex
wife wanted on a cruise. But there's a serious problem
with crime, an unreported crime and uninvestigated crimes going on
on these international cruises. In fact, I guess Kendall Carver
was a victim of this himself. He lost his daughter
in one of these atrocious acts. The website is International

(03:22):
Cruise Victims dot org. Mister Carver, are you there.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
I'm here, good to be here, ed, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
Thank you so much. Thank you for coming on. Tell
us about yourself before we get into the whole International
Cruise Victims, tell us about who is Kendall Carver.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Well, Kendall Carver was born in a little town in
Iowa many years ago, what at the University of Iowa.
Took a job on a college interview with the Church
Company and spent about thirty seven years with him. Ended
up president of the company in New York City for

(04:02):
eighteen years. So we've kind of did the typical route
of getting a job at college being with him, and
I was fortunate enough to end up as president of
their New York company. So it's been an interesting career
that kind of prepared me for my life after retirement.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Okay, great, So if you lived in New York, then
you shouldn't have too much problem with my New York
beast talking New York accent. Okay, so that's good news. Now,
how did you get involved? I know you lost your daughter.
Is that what instigated your whole interest in this international
crew system.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, that was really the beginning. I could never have
anticipated losing a daughter would take us to where we
are today, but it did. We have four daughters. The
daughter of that missing I was forty years old. Her
name was Marian car of her and she had a daughter,

(05:08):
and she was divorced from her husband, and Marian had
joined custody with her husband. He lived in Europe and
Marion lived in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and she and her daughter
talked daily and one day Mary didn't respond to the

(05:31):
phone calls. So after a few days her daughter calling said,
Joe king at all of mother, would you check it out?
And didn't really think there was a problem, But we
started contacting Mary and got no response. So that was
the beginning of a long odyssey which goes on today,

(06:00):
starting with myself, and then I can kind of lead
you through the development of ICV to the point that
we now have corporations in Australia, Britain and the United
States and have members in thirty four countries of the world.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
Well, did we ever find out what happened to Maria?
And she was on a cruise? Where was she cruising?
Two or from?

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Well, getting back to looking for Maria. After about seven days,
I contacted the Cambridge Police and said, hey, I can't
get hold of my daughter. Could you check out her
place in Boston? And they went in and checked her
place in Boston, found everything in order, no sign of anything,

(06:55):
no sign of any problems. So that faris on this journey.
And so the first thing we did is that we
hired a law firm in Boston and took the necessary
steps to take control of Marion so that we could

(07:16):
fully investigate what was going on. And after about three weeks,
the Cambridge Police contacted me and said that they had
traced a credit card transaction. They will to get into
her bank accounts to a cruise ship and Marion Tuck

(07:39):
cruises frequently. She was forty years old, divorce, very attractive.
But after three weeks the Cambridge Police contacted me and
said that they determined that she'd been on a celebrity
cruise ship. Celeverty was owned or is owned by Royal Criban.

(08:04):
So I contented Royal crib and said she was our
daughter on your ship, and a couple of days later
they got back and said that she was on the ship,
but they didn't know she got off the ship or not.
And we said, well, is there any video married on

(08:29):
your ship? And they said no, that after three weeks
had gotten rid of any video they destroyed it. So
we were too late. So we said, can we talk
to the steward somebody that had seen married on the
ship and for us to finally talk to that steward,

(08:51):
which seemed like a pretty simple request, it took us
four months, seventy five thousand dollars. They had to take
cord action in Massachusetts, then they had to take court
action in Florida. Then we had to hire a Florida
law firm. So just to interview the stewart was a

(09:17):
seventy five dollar cost moth. People wouldn't go through that,
but we felt at least we wanted to talk to
somebody that's seenor on that shim. So finally in January,
Marian had gone missing the twenty eighth of March. Finally,
in January of two thousand and five, we had the

(09:41):
deposition and we were on the telephone and they deposed
the steward, and to our amazement, the stewart said he'd
reported Marion missing daily after the second day in the cruise,
to his supervisor. The supervisor's response was forget it and

(10:03):
just do your job. So the next day he reported
her missing, got the same results, same response. So that
went on for about until the cruise ended in Canada.
And so the stewart then went to the supervision said well,

(10:24):
what do I do with the stuff of the group,
And the supervisor said, just put it in a bag
and put it by lock. And at that point they
notified no one. So in in fact, the cruise line
knew two days into the cruise that she was missing,

(10:44):
but failed to take any action. They didn't contact the FBI,
they didn't contact us, They did nothing and disposed of rhinos.
And so that started a long process with privaty actors
and ourselves that went on for months, and finally in January,

(11:07):
when I realized that they'd been covering up our disappearance,
I wrote a letter to the board of directors and
I said, hey, help us. Our daughter's going missing and
it appears that are missing has been covered up by
the people of the cruise ship. Well that got us zero,

(11:31):
That got us nothing. Now you would think the board,
with fiduciary responsibilities would have responded, but they didn't. Mister
Feine at that point was chairman of Royal Caribbean and
I just read yesterday he got paid eleven ten or
eleven million dollars last year, the highest paid leader of

(11:54):
a cruise line. And so we wrote him and said, hey,
we'd like to talk to you, and we ended up
with somebody way down the list. In my background, I've
been chairman of a company in Marshington, d C. And
I wasn't intimidated by anybody. And if somebody called a

(12:18):
customer of major complaints, I talked to him. Well, clearly
Fame was not willing to talk to me, so he
put it down the list and the person that he
referred me to said, oh, quapery. So then for another
five months the detectives were asking for information concerning Mary

(12:42):
and they got nowhere. They couldn't get anything, but we
did get one thing that was really quite important. We
got three emails internally written by the staff at Royal Caribbean.
Number one discussing the fact that they disposed of our items.

(13:05):
Number two that they wrote a memo to the fifteen
people that worked with the steward saying as anybody talked
to the steward and so make sure that nobody gets
to the steward, and then they wrote the steward and

(13:25):
he said, no, I've not talked to anybody. So in fact,
they were setting up a cover up of her disappearance
instead of doing the right thing. And one thing that
we also determine from the one picture we got for
the cruise ship and the deposition that Marion carried out

(13:46):
a Manila envelope, and the cruise lines recovered that manila
level was in a room, so we kept asking once
in the Manila envelope, we'd like to see it, and
finally the admitted they disposed of it. So in effect,

(14:07):
we were dealing with a corporation that was covering up
the crime, doing everything to hinder our investigation of the crime.
And you know, when you're a victim, let me just
say this, when you're a victim, you kind of assume
that you're the only person in the world. This has

(14:28):
happened to well that June June of two thousand and five,
a book came out, Devil in a Deep Blue Seat,
And in that book they discussed row cribbing in carnival
cruise and one of the sections in that book said

(14:48):
cover up was the standard operating procedure on crimes. That
just the way they operated, and they'd get the crew
member off the ship and sitting back to India, Indonesia
wherever it was, and that was the standard where the operators.

(15:09):
So we read in the book and realized we weren't
dealing with exception. We were dealing with the way they
do business.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
Now, you were able to get this deposition because you
found some kind of a civil action. In order to
who would you would you.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
Say, well, we had to file action in Massachusetts. Then
they had to refile it in Miami, Florida because all
these cases the cruise lanes set cases up. If I
live in New York, you got to file the claims

(15:46):
in Miami. Uh and so people run into this that
they can't file it. If you lived in Iowa, you
can't file the claim in Iowa. You got to go
to Florida to file the CLI. That's a hindreds for
people doing anything. But that's the steps we had to take,

(16:08):
and that costs that. The one lawyer in Florida just
to talk to us costs US ten thousand dollars. And
with the private detectives at the law firm in Boston.
It wasn't hard to run up seventy five thousand dollars
of expenses just to try to get to what was

(16:28):
going on, what happened to our doctar.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
Were you able to prevail in that civil litigation?

Speaker 1 (16:36):
The answer is yes and no. We ended up after
I think about in June of two thousand and five.
I've been spending daily working with the detectives trying to
sort out what was happening. But you know, you reach

(16:58):
a point in life, you see I can't do this forever,
you know, and it's just you know, they're doing everything
to avoid us, to take any accident, to give us answers.
So when I read the book about that's the way

(17:18):
they handle crimes, I determined that that was their operating procedure.
Now we're just an individual and dealing with a major corporation,
a major industry. Now, how the cruise lines set up
their business, Well, they put Row Cribbins based in Liberia,

(17:45):
Carnival is based in Panama, so they're foreign corporations. But
then they turn around and they register their state their
ships in flag states like the Bahamas, Longolia, Libraria, Panama

(18:05):
and that's where they register their states because they know
that these countries are number one cheap, and number two
they take no action in regards to claims. Now, this
brings up a point. We're going to be going back
and forth here, but when we eventually got to Washington,

(18:25):
I'll talk more about that later. The cruise lines say
we are the safest form of transportation and we are
highly regulated. That is their standard answer concerning safety. Well,
they belong to the IMO, the International Maritime Organization that's

(18:48):
a division of the United Nations. Well, that sounds good
to the average person. Gee, they're a member of the IMO. Well,
in fact, the IMO, all I have this in document,
does not take any action in the case of crimes.

(19:08):
They're not policemen. They don't find the cruise ships. They
really don't do anything. They refer the individual to these
flag states, knowing that the flag states are the enforcer,
and the flag states do nothing regarding their proper enforcement.

(19:29):
So when the cruise lines say they are highly regulated,
I have to say that's blowing. They're not highly regulated
because the flag states don't regulate them. The IMO doesn't
regulate them and take action when crimes occur. So they're
operating pretty much on their own and that's what people

(19:51):
find out.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
So well, this might be a good time to take
a commercial break. We're with the Kendle cor Now are
you the president or the chairman chairman of International Cruise
Victims Association. You could find that at the International Cruise
Victims dot Org. A tragic story he's telling us about
his daughter, Mirriam Carver disappeared on this cruise ship and

(20:16):
then the cruise company basically gives them the run around
it and does nothing to but cover up. We'll be
right back with more of a Kendlekarver after these messages.
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ninety nine cents. Welcome back to the Opperman Report. I'm
your host Private Listkeater at Opperman. We're here with Kendall Carver,

(24:51):
who is the chairman of the International Cruise Victims association.
You could find the website at the International Cruisevictims dot Org.
Mister Carver got some questions for you. Now, you said
you contacted the Boston p D. But who would have
jurisdiction over a crime on a cruise ship between Boston
and Canada.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Well, the answer is, we didn't know Marion was on
a cruise ship. Well, we knew that she was missing,
so clearly it was the Cambridge police not the Boston police. If,
like I said, Boston was incorrect, Clearly, for a missing
person you would go to the district where they lived,
which was Cambridge, Massachusetts, and eventually they traced this ticket

(25:41):
to Seattle and then to the Vancouver And the interesting
thing about that, when we determined that Marion was missing,
the Cruise Lines instructed the Cambridge police to notify the
Vancouver police of this crime of her missing. Well, the

(26:08):
Cruise Lines failed to take that action and the only
reported to the guy roughly a month after brand And
theoretically it should have been haled by the Canadian points.
That was the request. But somebody goes missing, you go

(26:30):
to the local police department. Now that they had no
idea the brain was up ship, but they did follow
through and trace where she was?

Speaker 3 (26:42):
Okay, gotcha? And also to what would happen are there
police on these cruise ships? Like, what would happen if
if if there was a crime, let's have this fight
on the cruise Are there police on the cruise would
make him arrest? And is a way to detain a suspect?

Speaker 1 (26:59):
The answer is no. You have to look at a
cruise ship like a city. It's got thousands of people
on it. It's got cooks and entertainers and people that
do the laundry and the maids and the passengers. Is
like a resort and a captain who asks the mayor.

(27:19):
The one thing they don't have are independent policemen. They
have no policemen. Now they have people that call themselves security,
but they work for the cruise lines and they have
no authority. They cannot arrest people, so that people have
this false sense of security that the security of the

(27:40):
cruise ship is going to take action. The security of
the cruise ship job is to protect the cruise lines.
So I'm getting back to Mary's case. Every two weeks
somebody goes missing on a cruise ship. So far others
here that in seventeen that have gone missing, and the

(28:02):
other crime large number of sexual rapes. So the rape
victim will call the security on a cruship and they said, yeah,
I've been raped. So the security comes in, write report
and then they go to the person. A lot of times,

(28:23):
probably half of the times, a crew member let's raped
the individual and they asked the crew member, did you
rape this individual? And he says, the answer is it
was consensual, So they write it up it was he said,
She said, then give the report to the FBI. They
have I said, he said, she said, so they do nothing.

(28:45):
You know, in those pass they're too hard to prove.
Now that has been changed and we can get to
that with major legislation passed. But the security concrusion is
non existent. And you think of as an independent person.
And let me give you an example. Somebody said, I

(29:07):
want to set up in Iowa a resort and we're
going to go in and we're going to serve unlimited alcohol.
We're going to lock the doors when you get on
that ship. And if you're raped, there is no policeman. Well,
they would let them open the door. They put them

(29:28):
out of business. There's nobody that can call in reno
they call the local police the security to come in.
But on a cruise ship, if you tried to set
that model up in the United States, they say, you're crazy.
You can't do that. You've got to have some security
for the passengers. The police have to be brought in

(29:51):
at some point.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
What gives an idea how many people are there on
these cruise ships? How many people are taking a cruise
on a particular ship at a time.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
You just don't put up Our grown Caribbean just lost.
The largest ship in the world pulls up to nine
thousand people, sixty seven thousand passengers and three thousand crew
members two to three thousand crew members. Now, if you've
got a city with nine thousands or eight thousand people

(30:22):
or four thousand people, there's going to be criminals on
that ship, right, you can't avoid it. So here you
got unlimited drinking. You sell them drinking passengers and no policeman.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
Crazy, Even a city of nine thousand people would have
a police force of about thirty cops, you know, thirty
to fifty cops and some's right, you know, significant police force.
And what about like even in the airports, when you
go to the airport, they have a pity police there
and they have jails. Every airport has it a little
jail at detention center where if you're acting up, they

(30:59):
throw in there and they hold you. And they don't
have that on the cruise.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Sometimes they'll put them in a holding area. A lot
of times they're left to go around the ship. Nothing
has happened. Let me give you an example in the
late nineties, I think it was a PanAm airplane. Plane

(31:26):
blew up often and everybody was killed as the result
of that. Well, the passengers on airline passengers room to
get together and there's a law called death in the
high season. That airplane fell under that law, and the

(31:51):
law in effect said, but the only thing you'd cover
is possible burial expense, but you can't take any legal
act against the airline because the gas tank blew up,
clearly their fault. Well, the airline passengers got together in
the association similar to ICV, and were able to get

(32:15):
an amendment to the law to this. They call it
dosha that in fact the airlines weren't liable and you
could take action against them. But guess what the cruise
lines fought that so that they remained under this old law.

(32:36):
Called death and high season let over it in nineteen twenty,
fully never intending it to be for modern day cruise ships.
So in a fact, if you die on a cruise ship,
it could be for an illness, or they screwed up,
or you went overboard, somebody pushed you overboard. You can

(33:00):
only file maybe for burial expenses, but you can take
it no other action. So let me give you an example.
You get on an airplane in Mind and you fight
to London and that plane crashes, you can take action.
But if you get on a boat in Miami and

(33:22):
sell the London and that boat sink, whatever happens, or
whatever other crime happens, you can't take action. Because the
lull ridden in nineteen twenty and the cruise lines fight
that tooth and nail. We've got that in every second,
separate piece of legislation to eliminate that. It makes no sense.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
Well, what about like slipping falls in the minor lawsuits?
How does that? Tampleton? Yeah, you can't.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
It's the same. If you live, you can take action.
Oh if you die, you can't take election, you know,
if that makes any sense. So if you get sick
on an airplane, well if you get sick on the boat.
There have been a lot of examples where people get

(34:13):
sick on the boat. Couldn't be from the food, could
be from all kinds of things, and they effect die
because of improper treatment. The families can't take any action.
And we have a couple, two daughters who lost both
their parents on and one of these boats that go

(34:41):
down the river boat in Panama. This is not the
United States, it's Panama, and the cabin that their folks
were in because of poor electrical wire, caught fire and
these parents died in that fire. And so to take action,

(35:04):
they found out that because that boat sailed into the
Pacific Ocean, it was covered by this Dosia bill, which
is a US bill. So they had major issues of
trying to take any legal action against the boat company
even though it was in Panable. Normally DOSHA death and

(35:29):
applies to a boat that leads the United States and
comes back, but here was a boat in Panama that
two people died of that they applied tried to apply
that law to avoid any illegal response responsibility. Another example,
remember the British Patroyum explosions a few years ago in

(35:54):
the Caribbean over the several people were.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
Killed golf in the Gulf Court or in the Gulf
Fort in the golf Okay, okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
The victims' parents couldn't take action against British Petroleum because
they were on the high seas covered under this death
in the high seasing. They made an effort to get
the law change and were unsuccessful. So here's a little
just one little law that is people get sick and

(36:32):
they die. It's like the President of ICV her daughter
died on a cruise ship because with an overdose of
methany that somebody had given her without her knowledge. She
was covered and they took the body off the ship,

(36:53):
left it in a port in Mexico where they did
an autopsy with a mother not even there and because
of DOSIA deaths that she could take very limited action
against the cruise line. Here they left the body in
Mexico and once she got it was the body was

(37:15):
at a box. There was nothing there. Well, it's a
crazy law.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
It is crazy. Now who's on the other side of
this lobbying to keep this law in effect? Obviously anybody
would common sense, any congressman would say, oh, we need
to pass a off. Who is besides the cruise line
I guess the oil companies too.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Who no, no, no, Well, there's a couple of organizations.
The main one the cruise lines belonged to an organization
called CLEO, which is the Cruise Line International Association. They're
the chief lobbyists for the cruise lines. In fact, individual

(37:53):
cruise lines in theory, their foreign corporations I think are
somewhat for in lobby. So they use this clear this
trade association. This spends up to they spent up to
six million dollars for lobbyist every year. You can actually
go on our website and see the thousands of dollars

(38:16):
pay the congressman through this lobbying organization. Now we're a
little organization, we have no money to lobby, and we're
up against an industry that's wanted to spend millions of
dollars to lobby for the cruise line industry. Because the
cruise lines by keeping their ships, their corporation in panel

(38:41):
in libraria, not only to avoid certain laws, guess what,
they avoid US taxes. Even they're making billions of dollars,
they pay hardly any US taxes because they put their
corporation in the library every company should do that, yeah,

(39:01):
to avoid taxes.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
You know, another thing from my own life's experience, I've
known people who they tell me, oh, yeah, I used
to work on the cruise ships.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
You know.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
It seems to be like people that are like in
between the tracks, you know, like you know, people are
kind of like off the grid, and you know what
I'm talking about, like shady kind of folks go to
work for the cruise lines. Have you noticed that?

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Absolutely the cruise lines. They go to Indonesia to recruit
people who work with a cruise line, or they go
to the third world countries. And that's the help of
the cruise lines that is taking care of the passengers.
And these people that are working on these cruise lines,
they're working long hours, seven days a week, after twelve

(39:47):
hours or more a day, and they're the ones that
often take advantage of the cruise passengers. And let me
give you an example. If you're robbed on a cruise ship,
it has to be over ten thousand dollars that you

(40:10):
can prove before you can even file the claim. Well,
the people that work on the ship know that, right,
they know that it's got to be a big item
before so you just just rob people for less than
ten though. You know it's crazy.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
Now, is anything done by the cruise ships though, to
discourage their employees from robbing and raping the bad publicity
is there?

Speaker 5 (40:37):
Is there?

Speaker 1 (40:38):
What happens is they get the crew member off the
ship right as quickly as possible. In my daughter's case,
they took the supervision and got him off the ship
far away so no action can be taken. And what
happens then a lot of times these people are then
rehired by another cruise line. Yeah, so putting up a

(41:02):
marker on the guy. So if Cardinal calls Roald Caribbean say, hey,
we don't we think that it would be unfair to
prejudice this where the guy goes to work, Well, that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Okay, we got to take another commercial break. We're with
a Kendall Carver, UH, chairman of the International Cruise Victims Association.
The website is International Cruise Victims dot org and I
believe there's a donate button on there too. We can
go there and donate to this. They're not being supported
and they're they're up against the six million dollars a

(41:42):
year living so this is something we'll need to be
concerned about. Will be right back with more of Kendall
Carver International Cruise Victim.

Speaker 8 (41:51):
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This excellent documentary film is available at Serpent Rising at
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(45:27):
and on Friday nights too. We do a live portion
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The ads are very very inexpensive, and they're also played
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can find William ram who's an excellent author at William
Ramsey Investigates on YouTube. Welcome back to the Operaman Report,

(46:13):
and we're here with the Kendall Carver who's a chairman
of the International Cruise Victims Association International Cruise Victims dot org.
Mister Carver, you start a bunch of private investigators and stuff.
A lot of times, you know, you can find the
person's ex wife or something like that, or you can
either talk to somebody off the record and say, hey,
you know, tell me something off the record that I

(46:35):
can go back and tell these parents. Did you ever
find out what happened with your daughter?

Speaker 1 (46:41):
It's an interesting question. About a year after she went missing,
the Cambridge police contact me and said, that's a crew
member on that ship wanted to talk to me. So
this particular crew member lived in Canada and I called

(47:04):
it and in fact, the crew member told me a
story that the story among the crew members was that
a crew member was involved in her disappearance. Then he
gave me the name of additional crew members. Well, we

(47:28):
contacted those individuals and they confirmed the story that that
was the story, but we couldn't determine who the crew
member was. It might be involved, But that was the
first indication we got of what might have happened to Maria.

(47:50):
But the kind of the strange thing after that, this
may sound weird. About a month later somebody, a woman
in Seattle called me on mysell and she happened to
be friends of a neighbor of ours that we live
next to Underian, Connecticut, who vouched for this lady. And

(48:14):
this lady told me a story that she'd been in
touch with Marion, and that told about how she was
I guess should say killed, and how our body was
disposed of on the cruise ship by a crew member.

(48:36):
About two years later, our minister we go to a
liberal Methodist church and he said, can you want to
know what happened to Marion? I said, sure, I want
to know what happened to Marion. So he said, well,
there's a lady in the church I'm convinced knows what

(48:57):
happened to Marion. She was another psychic. So I said,
let's get together. So we did. She told me exactly
the same story that this woman had told us two
years before, and that the crew members had told us. So,
you know, you can pursue this forever, but at some

(49:21):
point you just have to release it. And that's the
best answer I can give you what happened to Marion.
But the next important thing that happened is after about
fourteen months, we had not disclosed anybody that we'd lost
our daughter. So we decided to go public with her story. Now,

(49:47):
how do you go public with a story that's fourteen
months old? Well, I having worked in New York City,
I knew one person worked for CNN and personal friends.
So I called his wife and said, hey, our daughter's disappeared,
you know, with with your husband who was the producer

(50:07):
of any interest. So she had him called me and
he was doing something called Katrina with Anderson Cooper. So
he called me from New Orleans and I kind of
told him the story, and he in effected said, you know, Ken,
we're busy, and really gave me the brush off. So

(50:29):
the next thing that happened is that I went to
my land over New York City, who had a PR
produce that worked for him, and I went to a
PR for Phoenix, you know about how do we go
public with this? And the you know New York said.
I told him, said, this is a story. He needs

(50:52):
to be told me. You said, don't do good, Ken,
at least you have the present. Each year out we
had a conference call on a given day. I guess
what later I get a call for my friend, this
is a few months here sinking we're going to put

(51:17):
you on the Anderson Cooper Show, and I'm going to
come out and we're going to film it. That was
like in the November of two thousand and five, socame
the first participants on the Anderson Cooper Show and it
was shown multiple times. Then ABC picked the show up

(51:42):
and a congressman in Connecticut, Christopher Seat. There was a
family in Connecticut, the Smith family, who had lost their son. Uh,
and he was the honeymoon couple. If you've heard the.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
Story, right, I was going to ask you about that.
They were drinking abstinent, right, Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Know what they were drinking. Okay, he'd gone missing. Right,
So Christopher and we lived in Connecticut. Christopher she decided
in December of two thousand and five to hold the
first congressional hearing on the cruise line industry. So the

(52:24):
people that testified were the FBI, the Coast Guard, and
the cruise lines, but no victims. Well, then three months
later Christopher say says, we're going to have another hearing.
This time we're going to invite the victims to testify.
So in March of twenty sixteen, we had our first

(52:47):
congressional hearing, and my dad, we've had eight crystional hearings
since that beginning. And so anyway, we had the hearing
and our membership. Let me tell you how our membership started.
In January one of twenty sixteen, I knew of three

(53:09):
other families that had lost children. So we got together
and we formed a little group called International Cruise Victims.
That was the beginning with four families. Well, since then,
as I said earlier in the show, that little group
has grown to have a membership in thirty four countries,

(53:32):
Separate Corporation in England and in Australia. But at that hearing,
which is the first time I had ever testified at
a congressional hearing, we did something that nobody thought we
would ever do. In the hearing, we came up with
ten simple points for improving safety young cruise ships. There

(53:56):
were things that nobody can object to, and so that
became our presentation, here's the things that cruise lines can
do to improve safety on cruise ships. Well, a congressman
walked into the hearing. He set up by the cruise
lines and he started talking to the other cruise line

(54:21):
other cruise victims that were there, and he kind of
one and said what do you think we ought to do?
And they'd come up with a suggestion and he'd put
it down. He finally got to meet and he didn't
know that we turned in earlier these ten suggestions. So
Christopher Shay said to this Southern congressman, I won't mention

(54:42):
his name. Read this, well, the guy was taken back.
They were logical things that cruise lines should do to
improve safety.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
Well, you know I can't. Let's take a little commercial
break right now when we get back. What's those ten
things for us? Okay? And did you get those ten
things past? Okay, we'll talk about when you get back
with Ken Kendall Carver International Cruise Victims of Socia. The

(55:24):
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Speaker 6 (56:19):
We all have questions, did he do it? Or did
he not?

Speaker 7 (56:23):
We all have opinions, but do we really know the truth?
New evidence will now be presented and the ultimate answers
will be revealed in the explosive documentary Serpents Rising, inspired
by the bestseller Double Cross for Blood and independent investigation
of the Trial of the Century, the live, the myths

(56:44):
and the concealed evidence.

Speaker 6 (56:46):
Don't miss Surpens Rising.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
This excellent documentary film is available at Serpents Rising at
Vimeo Videos on demand. Watch it for one dollar and
ninety nine cents.

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nights too, we do a live portion for one hour
that I just do a live monologue. The ads are
very very inexpensive, and they're also played in the Opperman
Report Member section. In the member section you can find
all kinds of exclusive content that you won't find anywhere else.

(58:20):
It's as cheap as six dollars a month, twenty dollars
a quarter, or seventy five dollars for a year. If
you contact me directly at Opperman Report at gmail dot com,
I'll set you up with a little special deal there.
When you get a discount if you paypound me directly
and you can get to copy my book. I want
to thank William Ramsey who helps us produce the show
and book guests. You can find William Ramsey, who's an
excellent author at William Ramsey investigates on YouTube.

Speaker 5 (58:45):
WPR Rebuddal covering the side of the story miss bi
Wisconsin Public Radio bringing narratives the UWS system board regents
won't allow shedding the light perspectives the owners of WPR
don't want you to hear. Every Thursday at twelve thirty
Central time, WPR Rebuttal is your destination for grassroots journalism

(59:06):
in saust County and beyond. Our host center JPO provides
insightful analysis and the stories that are only superficially covered
by mainstream press. Our recent inventory of topics includes college
graduate under employment, yellow journalism in the media, and favoritism
in the public sector hiring process. Get your WPR Rebuttal

(59:27):
fixed Thursdays at twelve thirty Central time.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
Okay, welcome back to the Opperaman Report. I'm your host,
private investigator, ed Opferman. We're here with the Kendall Carver,
now the chairman of the International Cruise Victims Association. So, Ken,
what'd you come up with with the ten points and
then did they get passed?

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Okay, well, first of all, I'd tell people to go
to our website www. Internet National Cruise Victims dot org
and at the top there's tabs show those press releases
various things, but there's a community tab, and if you're
pressing the community tab, it brings up several different major articles.

(01:00:18):
One is the original ten point program that we introduced
on March seven, two thousand and six. Let me just
run through these sentives. See these are pretty supply items.
Number one, there should be background checks on crew members,
you know, create a database of reporting terminal employees, ensuring

(01:00:43):
the same employee will not be rehired by the cruise line.
Now that's not pretty example, and you can go and
read additional points. It should be international police like sky marshalships,
so that the individual knows there is independent you get

(01:01:04):
the thought that there's that will take action and not
report to the cruise lines. Three, there should be security
of the crime scene. Basic security of the crime scene.
It should be secured and you can go through see
there is points. There should be structural and east slately.

(01:01:29):
The railing around the ship, you know, so people can't
jump over or extently follow. Seems pretty simple. There should
be VISI cameras you came through it without you can
see it in the camera. Well, that should be the same.

(01:01:50):
And we suggest security bracelets be given people so they
know where they are. And missing overboard pass years that
immediate actually taken, and I could talk a long time
with that one, because eventually when we come as we
have passed the legislation require man overboard systems, they're available.

(01:02:16):
And yet the cruise lines that I've done, the excursions
which are bought and sold. I just had a case
last week of some women that got off the ship
in Cuzabel and uh a guy with a T shirt
that said Carnival Cruise Line or Wonder Cruise Line off
offered to take them to a private reservoir. They got

(01:02:41):
there a rap and then they went back back to
the ship the guy and several days later I had
no report of that happening. And the ships to use
cover for money, not to some foreign country. We don't

(01:03:04):
take no notion. So those are simple things. This group
that's an expanded their But look at another community. You
see basically points are off and let's say that this
is the parting were because this then eventually led to legislator.

(01:03:32):
This was presented at at the next hearing. UH Chairman
Cummins said, if you looked at these ten points and
they got no they got no answer, well then he
ordered the cruise lines to meet with us in Washington,

(01:03:55):
d C. To go through these and determine what they
could do to improved safety. So we held that meeting
and they were then given a deadline in the September
of twenty seventeen to say what were we going to
do on purpose to improve safety? Guess what they came

(01:04:21):
up with. The thirty Watch reported they weren't willing to
do anything. So then we moved to the Senate. This
will be now our fourth or fifth hearing where John
carry has sponsored the building of the Senate. Dos sue
and present people of the House. But John car took

(01:04:42):
it on the Senate and after that hearing and going
through these points, John Carrey represented Matsui and Pole introduced
legislation to improve which incorporated at these points nothing here
as gigantic. It also put in a requirement for man

(01:05:06):
overboard systems. It required that the individual being notified by
that if they had crime on the ship, they have
a right to FBI and bypassed the security on a
cruise ship. Well, and also it was required that this

(01:05:30):
could be a public on a site maintained by the
post by the Coastguard. Well, here we are seven years later,
and only in the last couple of years are the
crimes starting to be a reported. If an individual goes
to Department of Transportation Cruise Line Safety, you can see

(01:05:54):
the quarterly reports. Now is that all of the reports.
I'm not sure it is, but at least it's a
major start on reporting to the public because people call
it and say, what's the safest cruise line? Well, they
can look at that report and see some obvious ships

(01:06:15):
or cruise lines that are having major problems. So we
took a report of just telling her stories at that
first hearing and then through four additional hearings coming up
with the legislation that was eventually passed in twenty ten.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
What is the procedure for a man overboard?

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Did he have one? The answer is I want a
committee International Association for Standards ISOL. The cruise line's argument
was the bill said they had to put these systems
on their ships if they're if they're available. Well the

(01:07:04):
cruise lines said, well, we don't know the standards, so
they've they've dodged that for years. Well, earlier this year
the International Associations Standards, the ISO released the standards for
man overboard systems on cruiships. So there is no excuse anymore.

(01:07:28):
And it's the law. And in fact, the cruise lines
are supposed to be fined if they don't put it off,
so that's the step. Are they putting it on? It's
a struggle. I just did a memo last week where
the cruise lines are saying, we don't really need these things,

(01:07:49):
you know, Well, it's the law. We passed the law.
And but then what they are? There? Devices that can
trigger a person going overboard, that automatically advises the bridge
that somebody's gone overboard and media in MORESHT d C

(01:08:10):
was there a couple of years ago. I was at
the Marriott having breakfast with two people and I told
them what I did, and I said, what do you do? Well,
it turns out this guy is with a coast Guard
in search and rescue. I said, would it help you
to know exactly when and where somebody goes overboard. The

(01:08:35):
answer was obviously yes. So put these systems on what
you're available, you might actually recover some of these people.
In an average there have been over three hundred people
overboard over the last several years. Once in a while
they find them, but most of the time they don't.

(01:08:56):
And what does that cost the US taxpayer? That costs
the US packs pair hundreds of thousands of dollars. Every
time the Coastguard goes out and starts searching the Caribbean
for somebody, it's like looking for a needle in a
handstack and very seldom to find them. We've done Freedom

(01:09:18):
of Information Act on the cost of these search and rescues,
and it sufferates to a million dollars. The taxpayers are
paying for that, and against an industry that doesn't pay taxes,
and yet systems are available. Vital law to be to

(01:09:38):
be on cruise ship. So we are working very closely
with Congress and others to make sure that this law
is enforced, particularly when the ISO has issued standards recently.

Speaker 3 (01:09:54):
Now, how about this, how about like when you're getting
on and off the boat, they must have a ticket
system and thenbly it's probably not a paper ticket like
it was in the old days, like a key card
or something. Said they must keep track of who's coming
on the ship and who's leaving the ship, right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
They do now. In the case of my daughter, they
had no such records. So they do now count the
number of people going on and off the cruise ships. Amazing, Yeah,
but a lot of times uptem cases where people have
fallen off the ship, they don't know off for several days.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
Yeah. But I'm saying, like that same card or that ticket,
or a little beacon or whatever, you can a little fob,
you know, they make things like that. Now you could
carry it on and off and if you fell off
the boat, it would they would stand off a warm
right away. It seems like a no brainer. And it
would be so cheap. Those things are so cheap, like
a garage door opener. It's like nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
Well, these being overboard systems aren't expensive, yeah, speaking, I
mean they're putting water slides on boats, put all kinds
of toys on boats, and yet willing to spend a
minimum amount of money to put on man overboard systems.
It's crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:11:06):
Now, what about when because almost at a time, but
when this honeymoon couple. Right now, that was all over
the news. Now, when that was on the news, the
TV shows and the radio shows, they must have been
looking for someone like you to come on and give
the other side. Did that happen?

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
Well, it eventually happened when we came together at the
first congressional hearing. Okay, because the first congressional hearing was
about the Smith family and I bought our daughter Mary,
So that's where we really first came together. And uh,
you know, we had the same issue. And when you

(01:11:45):
think there's seventeen people this year right going overboard, think
of those families. But most families don't have the resources
to follow up as we did this Smiths a lot,
but we kind of moved in a different direction. I mean,
they've zeroed in on looking for their son who murdered

(01:12:08):
his son. After year and a half, I came to
a conclusion there's a problem with this industry. So we
need to see if we can pass some laws to
change the industry, because that's the only way they'll ever
do it. And we've been successful in passing laws. Have
they all been enforced? The answer is no, not as

(01:12:31):
well as they should have. But a lot of them
have been enforced, and it's gotten the attention of the world.
I did an interview a couple of weeks ago in Finland.
It's all over the world. I did a congression hearing
in Australia. And you think the IMO, the Unnational Aritech

(01:12:54):
Organization would take this on, but in effect they haven't.
They just write various rules and then say this up
to the flag state to take on any compliance. Well,
they don't do it. They don't go on and send
people out when a woman's rape or goes overboard. I

(01:13:16):
don't think they've ever had a case that I'm aware
that they've taken action. That's why the cruise lights put
flag their ships in those countries, their third world countries,
and it becomes a revenue source for these countries. But
it's not designed to protect the public. It's more designed

(01:13:36):
to protect the cruise lines.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
So now, if all these rapes are going on, prosecuted, uninvestigated,
even then this must be known among these type of
criminals because they talk to each other and stuff like that,
that this is a haven to go on a cruise
and do whatever you want.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Yeah, well, one of the keys is we've passed this
law and Senator Rocket for the last he.

Speaker 3 (01:14:00):
Did Nelson rock Stell. What's that, Nelson Rockefeller? Nelson is
back in the seventy Then, No, it's J. J. Rockfell.

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
Okay, Yeah, he was chairman of the Commerce Committee and
he held three hearings and we got certain things changed,
and that the cruise lines are required to report within
three hours any crime, and the FBI is to contact

(01:14:32):
the person on the ship immediately and then greet them
when to get off. So we are getting better compliance.
But is it happening in all cases the interests? No,
you really need the security on the cruise ships. But
because of Rockefeller taking the bill where it was and

(01:14:54):
making some of these things in force, that has made it.
That has made it difference.

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
So then I suppose something like a domestic violence case,
like a husband and wife get into a fight and
they're slapping each other in the room. Nothing's going to
happen for that and nothing What are you gonna call
the FBN when we get back to the shore and
you know nothing's gonna happen for that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Nothing will happen. In fact, there was a cruise I
think I don't know, it was ten days or two
weeks going to Australia and people got in a fight.
The other passengers locked their doors because of the violence
that was going on on the ship. It's incredible here

(01:15:34):
they weren't seed. Now let me say this. Our bill
in theory only protects a passenger if they leave the
United States on a cruise ship or come back to
the United States. If they're in the Mediterranean on a cruise,
they're not covered with the law. And our goal is

(01:15:56):
to have those crimes covered, whether they're know happened in
the United States or happen wherever in the world. It's
only logical. And you think the cruise lines would want
to do this tremendous press.

Speaker 3 (01:16:11):
Well, you know, I just recalled. I'm seeing on Facebook
a posts from a friend of mine saying that hey,
I'm going on a cruise how much And you're allowed
to bring like two bottles of wine? But there's even
the corkscrews. They're searching you when you come on. They're
looking for booze and corkscrews when you come on the cruise.
Are they looking for drugs and weapons to when you
come on?

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
Well, the answer is they do, but a lot of
drugs still get are being carried on cruise ships. Sure
it's being reported. How they get on who knows, but
they're getting on cruise ships. And you know there's I
think there was an article last week on crew members

(01:16:51):
that were caught, uh yeah, with drugs. So it's one
way to move.

Speaker 3 (01:16:58):
What about metal detectives. If their metal detectors you go
through when you got the PRIs, I.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
Think they are probably metal detectors for a gun or.

Speaker 3 (01:17:05):
Something like that, because they had that case with those
terrorifts with the Klinghoffer, right, yeah, well that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
Goes back many years ago where that they took a
guy in a wheelchair and pushed him.

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
Overboard, right, And so you would think now after that
international terrorism that there would be some kind of police
force on the on the ships. Nothing changed after.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
That, nothing had changed. This is an industry that does
not want to change anything. They would think this dotion
build death, and I sees that where people get sick
and die and the cruise lines responsible, or people go overboard.
We have one case where the photographed a woman that

(01:17:49):
was raped by a crew member. Then he tried to
throw her overboard, but she fought. Their body is all
beat up and they got the guy, only because she evolved.
You've tried to throw overboard? How many times does that happen?
You get rid of the evidence, you just throw the
person overboard. And to have unlimited drinks being served by

(01:18:13):
cruise lines, I mean a bar here, I see if
you had unlimited drinks, there are laws that say you can't.
The bartender is responsible. Yeah, but that's a revenue source
for is serving drinks and alcohol. They don't want you
to bring your stuff on because they want to sell
it to you on the boat. And as you come

(01:18:35):
on the boat, they hand your glass. Oh really, punch
or whatever, that's all spiked. You know, that's just a
standard operating procedure. Then they put it on your bill.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
Oh really, boy, but we're almost out of time. What
do you want to leave us with? And all this.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
Well, let me say this. What are the safest ships
and one of the unsafe ships? This what statistics we
have show that the three and four day cruise ships
that go out of Miami or New York or wherever

(01:19:18):
are the least safe because they're party ships. People go
on there to have a party, so they drink and
do whatever on that. The longer cruises, you know, that
are weaker longer generally is an older crowd and doesn't
have the crime rates of the ships that are for

(01:19:40):
short operation. Let me tell you something else you need
to be aware of. Of all the rapes, which is
the most common crime, a third of those rapes are
reported on minors, and very seldom is actually ever taken.
You know why they don't take because they don't want

(01:20:02):
to take the person that did the crime and label him.
What's the label when somebody does a sexual.

Speaker 3 (01:20:10):
Crime pedophile, Childleicester, pedophile.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
Yeah, they're labeled for life, So they don't want to
do that. So these crimes on minors aren't reporting and
no action is taken. So but people get on a
pot and they turn their kids loose. That's crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:20:29):
They have that Disney cruise which is probably ninety kids.

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
Yeah, well there's been cases where there's pedophiles on Disney cruises.
They have a video a few years ago of a
child getting out of an elevator and the crew member
went in an accostator on the elevator and it was
filmed in a TV station. Got ahold of that film.

(01:20:56):
So you're entering a world that you need to be
very careful you don't want to be alone. A single
woman is vulnerable, and there are risks, and that's you know,
people think they're just on there for a good time.
Well there are a risk. I mean, if you went
into any city of several thousand people and no policemen

(01:21:19):
serving any alcoholic beverages, you wouldn't take your family into
that city.

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
Yeah, I said before my daughter and my ex wife
went on a cruise and I didn't think. I didn't
even suspect anything like this could even happen.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
I just assumed, you know, that's part of the job
that ICV does. Yeah, and we do get a lot
of press of making people aware of the dangers of
a cruise ship. They could be fun, they should be fun,
but when a crime occurs, there needs to be accountability,
an action taken.

Speaker 3 (01:21:53):
It seems so the basic just the basic requirements, you know,
just to have a couple of cops on it. Just
think even ten cops, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
That avery independent of the group ship.

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
Well, I mean if a woman is raped today and
they take him to a hospital, the police show up
and take her report, that's standard operating procedure. Another standard
operating procedure here in Arizona. If you call the police,
you have to sign a form that you've been given

(01:22:29):
your rights. Well, the cruise lines have these supposed to
give people their rights, but they don't do it. Well,
if they had to sign a form of the victim,
there'd be more of these strategy report.

Speaker 3 (01:22:44):
Yeah, it seems like all very basic stuff that could
be effected here to avoid a lot of problems. I'm
surprised that the cruise ships don't want to cooperate more.
Kettlecarv Yeah, Ken Cover, thank you so much, chairman of
the International Cruise Victims Association. You could find the website
at International Cruise Victims dot org.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
Okay, then we had Kennel Carver International crui Victims Association.
My god, you know, I tell you at the now
you hear this stuff though, because I've known some guys
that have worked in these cruise ships that you know,
we're real uh characters, you know, and you hear, oh, yeah,
I'm going, oh, I want to go back and work
on those Schoos ships. And you know, you think back,
these are pretty rough guys. All right, Right when we

(01:23:33):
come back, we're gonna be talking to reverend Ed Pinkney,
Who've got some really good news where with the Rev.
That the Supreme you know what, I'll let him tell you. Okay,
that's that. Well, we got really good news. He's he's
at a prison. We know that they threw him in present,
but it's crazy, uh, charge that there were four dates

(01:23:56):
forged on a recall petition that there are four dates.
We're incorrect. They've been written over and changed. They changed
the eight So, oh my god, Reverend Pickney thrown in prison.
Game sixty seven years old. He game two to ten years.
I think he did three and a half four years
and uh God, bless Reverend Pickney. But we have them
coming on next to tell us what the rest of
the story. Right as they say, hey, don't forget, I'm

(01:24:18):
gonna be on with the Amy Valella amyfourth People dot
Com May eleventh. I'm gonna be doing a little telethon action.
We're trying to get John Barber to come down there
with us. If you enjoy the show with John Barbara