Love and Death in the Sunshine State: The Story of a Crime

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's the Opperman Report.

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Join digital Forensic Investigator in PI at Opperman for an
in depth discussion of conspiracy theories, strategy of New World
Order resistance, hi profile court cases in the news, and
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And authors on these topics and more.

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It's the Opperman Report, and now here is investigator at Opperman.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Okay, welcome to the Opperman Report. I'm your host, private
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(00:59):
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(01:40):
on the line. That didn't write it down for today's show.
We got with us today Cutter Would and he's written
his book which is has huge critical acclaim. Every review
is a top number five review on Amazon. Love and
Death in the Sunshine State. The story of what I

(02:03):
think you cut off. It is the story of a crime.
Is when I said, Love and Death in the Sunshine State. Yeah,
the story of a crime. Hey, Cutter Wood, are you.

Speaker 4 (02:11):
There, I'm here, Thanks for having me ed.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah, thank you so much. Tell us about yourself? Who
was Cutter Would?

Speaker 4 (02:19):
That's that's a scary question. Yeah, you know, I'm so
I'm a writer. I guess I When I got involved
in this this story, actually I was just I just
graduated college, really was kind of trying to find my
way in the world, was waiting tables. And since I've

(02:40):
written this book, you know, I've kind of moved forward
and just gone the direction of a career in writing.
I went to graduate school, forward and out in Iowa
and now living in New York City quite quite happily
with my and my wife and my brand new daughter.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
Oh very nice. Okay, So then this, this book just
totally took off, and now you're a full time writer.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
Yeah. Yeah, it's been it's been a wild ride. It's
been great so far.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
Okay, great. Now I was reading a description and it's
a story about this murder of this woman, Sabine Bueler.
I guess it's pronounced. But you were staying at that motel.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
Yeah, so this is kind of this is one of
the strangest parts of this whole story. I'm, you know,
a recent recent graduate of college. I'm I'm waiting tables,
not really sure what I'm doing in my life. I
go down to Florida, this little little tiny island called
Anna Maria it's this very beautiful beachy touristy island, just

(03:37):
to visit some family, you know, and there's no place
to stay with me for me with the family, So
I just grab a room at this little, very lovely
but inexpensive motel on the beach. And I don't think
anything of it. You know. It's a very nice place.
It's a little eccentric. They've they've got some kind of

(03:57):
crazy decorations up. There's a green acall in the office
that's screaming its head off all the time and saying
all kinds of funny things. I don't think a lot
of about it, though, you know. I stay there, I
visit my family. I decided I go back to back
home and decide I'm never going to go to Florida again.
It's not my thing. And then a few months later
I get this clipping in the mail from my mom.

(04:18):
Actually did choose this motel just covered in flame, and
is you know, very much kind of a Capodi moment
for me, where I thought, what is going on here,
you know, especially so because I'd just been a guest there.
As I look into the story, it turns out one
of the motel's owners this owner is this woman who's

(04:39):
actually there when I stayed there said being a musical
jeweler had disappeared, just gone completely missing. And this was
on election night two thousand and eight. Actually, so she
disappears election night, which is a Tuesday Wednesday. She was
supposed to be she was off work, so nobody realized
anything was got up. And Thursday morning, the police stop

(05:03):
this car driving around on the Mainland, so white, white
Pontiac convertible. They pulled over to the side of the
road and starting the plates. They realize it belongs to
this woman to the news seguler, and just as they're
about to approach it, a man hops out and sprints away,
which which is always always sets off some alarms, right,
not a good sign.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
They Oh, he doesn't want that ticket, you know, he
really doesn't want that ticket.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
Yeah, exactly exactly. You know. It's one of those things
where one of the kind of amazing things where like
a huge pace all comes from a broken tail light. Right. Yeah,
So they track this guy down. He's lying underneath a
pickup truck. They bring him out. His name is Robert Corona,

(05:49):
and they they called this woman's house to see if
if he had permission to use her car. They reach
her husband, who says, base, you know, if somebody else
was driving my wife's car, she's dead. And that sets
off this mad search for this woman. You know, they
and it was really kind of one that was very confusing,

(06:11):
right because they had nobody, They had no murder weapon.
They had this car, which as time went on, they
realized had some of her blood in it. But they
and they had these three men. This man who was
driving the car, her husband, and also she'd become a
strange from that husband, and she had a boyfriend. So
they have these three men, but none of them have

(06:32):
like a really great motive in the whole thing. So
I was just really totally suck into this thing trying
to figure out who this woman was and what had
happened to her.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
Well, give us an idea. How did they find that
she had a boyfriend and the husband knew because they
were estranged.

Speaker 4 (06:51):
Yeah, yeah, so so the boyfriend and this thing. Yeah,
the husband knew that she had a boyfriend. They were actually,
you know, living not far from each other on this island,
and the boyfriend, in fact, had had a history of arson. So,
you know, two weeks later after disappear and the police
are still puzzling this thing over. Somebody sets the motel
on fire, and you can imagine what kind of what

(07:16):
kind of alarm bells that set off for the police
at that point in time. You know, they they felt
very strongly that that something, some kind of thing was
playing itself out still and they really weren't hear what
and it just it made the case that much more confusing.
Why two weeks later, this woman's boyfriend, I mean sorry,

(07:38):
this woman, somebody would would think that, you know, would
still be in such turmoil that they would set fire
to this motel.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
Yeah, after the heat was already on, so to speak. Right,
the guy is making his chest worse.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
That's that's the strange thing is that there really wasn't
heat on. There was no when they looked at the
motel and the fire arseal investigations, is no evidence there
to be disposed of no body, of course, and it
just seemed to be this purely emotional thing that whoever
had set it on fire. And I should say the
fire still nobody's ever discovered exactly who's at the fire.

(08:15):
The fire is still very confusing. It's what kind of
drew me through this entire project, I actually trying to
understand the mind of a person who would be still
so torn up about a relationship with two weeks later,
they would still want to go back and destroy something
that belonged to the woman they loved.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
When you checked into all dell, did you meet Sabine?

Speaker 4 (08:37):
You know, It's something I've asked myself a million times.
I feel certain that she was there, you know, when
I drawed that moment up in my mind, I remember
somebody standing there beside the bird cage when I arrived.
But you know, that was before anything had happened, before,
you know, when I was just there visiting some family.
So I can't say for sure, but I know now.

(09:00):
And this is kind of the craziest part. You know.
I spent so long with this this case. It took
I guess almost seven years to come to any resolution,
you know, and I spent a lot of time talking
to people who knew her very well. I sat down
and spoke with their brother, who had traveled from Germany
to talk with me and to kind of memorialize her.

(09:22):
Once it seems certain that she was gone, and you know,
you uncover this human being and you do very much
start to feel like there's someone that you know, there's
someone in your own life. She was this very fascinating
and really caring, loving but also strong willed person that
really kind of captivated my mind. And of course, you know,

(09:43):
because you're kind of daily, daily life and daily thinking
is so involved in a case like this, you do
start to internalize. And then she was showing up in
my dreams. I was having these terrible nightmares that I
would be an opera and I'd turned to the side
and Sabina would be there with me. Things like that. Hmm.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
Interesting because the book's been compared to In Cold Blood
by Schuman Campodi, the same kind of thing. You really
threw your whole life into this. It kind of destroyed
his life, you know, by the way to life kind
of wint down. How you how you hold it up?

Speaker 4 (10:15):
Okay, I feel okay. You know, they're definitely the dark days. Yeah,
you know, the the you don't. When I first went
down there, I didn't think it was going to be
this huge book project. I thought I might write, you know, first,
I was just curious. Then I thought maybe I would
write a short article about it. It was this very

(10:37):
just a fascinating occurrence. Right. I get down there and
the detectives have a back hell out on the beach,
one of the most popular tourist beaches around, and they've
got a professor of archaeology and kidaver dogs and they're
just digging a huge hole hoping they luck upon a body. Right,
And these these tourists are not They're not sitting there
facing the ocean going swimming. They've taken all their chairs

(10:59):
and they're sitting in circle around this hole looking to
see what happens, you know. And the people who lived
on the island were really deeply affected by it mentally.
They were seeing this woman everywhere they thought. They saw
at the you know, the convenience store and the orthodonas
somebody saw her getting on a flight. One of thee
I spoke to said she was gonna that Sabina had

(11:19):
gone to the afterlife, that was going to be in
touch through her pet parrot telepathically, you know. So it
had really just captured people's minds and got mine too.
And when I first thought I was gonna write something,
it was it was a much smaller piece really about
the effect that the loss of a human being can
have on a community. And it was only as I
got down there and started talking to people and feeling

(11:42):
like I kind of had a duty to see this
thing through. That's only when I realized it it was
a book project. And that's also when it started to
affect me more a lot personally.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
Now, did we ever find out how this came about,
how she was murdered, how that this karthief was he
of Robert Corona and bound up with a car?

Speaker 4 (12:02):
And yeah, so all of that, did you know? It
was very much a mystery for like I said, almost
seven years, and it did finally. You know, I had
long ago given up that this case is ever going
to be resolved. I thought it was just going to
be kind of like a dark part of my own
personal path. And then one one morning out of nowhere,

(12:27):
you know, almost seven years the day since she's disappeared,
in the end of the morning, everything came to fruition.
Everything became clear. And the wildest part of all that was,
by that time, you know, I'd been going down to
Florida regularly talking to people about the and by that
time I developed really actually a relationship with a man

(12:47):
who committed a crime. Really, so I went right down
and he was being held in the Manatee County jail.
Then sat down with him for about a week straight,
and you know, I talked to him a million times
about what had happened that night and about their relationship,
and finally he gave me the real story. You know,

(13:08):
we're as close as the real story to the real
story you can get. Told me everything from seeing this
one for the first time, falling in love with her,
to you know, the troubles and difficulties of living together
as a couple, to this final night and doing this
terrible thing that he never would have thought himself capable of,

(13:29):
and then everything after that, and the desperate rush to
try and cover uptly done. So that that was perhaps
when everything took the darkest turn for me. You know,
I'd at that point, I'd been involved so long, I'd
thought so much about this, and to finally, you know,

(13:49):
and I'd still never, i guess, really faced up to
the awful thing that had happened. And to finally have
to face that and sit down across from someone and
hear them say the words, which is just something that
never happens in your normal life. That was really really
hard for me. And you know, and I think it.
And I don't want to belittle the the feelings that

(14:11):
people really directly involved in the case, but you can't
hear those kinds of things without feeling pretty deeply affected.
And I think that's really kind of what what drives
the book is is having that closeness to the events
of the case. But for me, for me, it just
after going through these interviews, you know, I drive back

(14:32):
to my little place on the island and lock all
the doors and pull the curtains and pour myself a
glass of whiskey and try to go to sleep.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yeah, I can definitely relate to what you're saying. And
as a matter of fact, I've done whole interviews on
this show that you just turned out to where me
and the guests just sit around talking about PTSD and
then the experiences, you know, our reaction to dealing with
these horrible stories you hear, you know, Yeah, but I
got a couple of questions. Now, you were in there
and the boyfriend every day while he's there in the

(15:03):
jail waiting trial, he didn't have a lawyer telling him
to shut up.

Speaker 4 (15:06):
And I taught you, well, this is this is when
so we talked a lot of times. He was actually
in prison for part of it and in jail for
part of it for a previous crime that he finally
did the prole on, and he was just you know,
I think he kind of the boyfriend, kind of felt

(15:27):
like he'd been maligned by the media and then been
you know, subjected to a trial by newspaper. So I
think he was very one probably maybe a little lonely
like a lot of people in prison, and two very
anxious to get his side of the story out. So
you know, he was he was more than happy to talk.
And when he finally did kind of walk me through

(15:48):
every the actual story of what had happened. It, Uh,
by that point everything was a done deal. He'd gotten
his sentence and and there wasn't much and jurn him
telling me.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
More so he pretty much he confessed and played guilty.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
Correct. Correct.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
One thing I'm curious, what's that? Well, one thing I'm
curious about is that, but why why don't you finish
what you're going to say?

Speaker 4 (16:15):
No? No, go ahead?

Speaker 3 (16:17):
How did this Robert Carona get ahold of the car?

Speaker 4 (16:21):
So that that's a strange, strange case. You know, he
originally you know, he's he's picked up driving a car
which is obviously not his and runs away. I think
there might have been some throats in the car something
as well, and doing what I suspect most people might
do if they were in that situation. He tried to

(16:41):
play it off. They said they asked him if he
knews to being the meals to beul and he said, oh, yeah,
of course, yeah. I was just with her. We were
just partying. She loaned me the car, which you know,
when they first heard that they kind of said, okay, whatever.
And as as time went on and and it turned
out that this was becoming a homicide investigation, those words

(17:04):
very quickly came back to haunt him, right because that
was going to make him the last person to see
this woman alive. And the transcripts of the interview where
the detective, you know, he's been visited. This guy's been
visited over and over again by detectives, and they keep
asking about the details of the story, trying to get
more and more, and you know, he thinks by staking

(17:25):
to his story that he's saving his own hide, and
it isn't until finally, you know, the the big headhunter
detective comes in and lays it all out for him
that his story means he was the last person to
see last person to see a murdered woman alive. That
he kind of just breaks when you read the transcript

(17:47):
of this. It's pretty but a little funny, it's a
little heartbreaking. He always says something like, for real, they're serious,
and you know within thirty seconds he's taken it all
back and plaid to grand theft aut as opposed to
facing down a possible homicide charge. No, I'm in his
story then, you know, And all this stuff I think

(18:08):
is you do a lot of times, get a confession,
you never know the exact truth. But his story then
was he was looking for loose change in cars outside
this bar, found this car sitting there, windows down, unlocked
keys in the ignition, and thought he would just go
for a joy ride. Why not, it's the way convertible.

(18:30):
Never looked in the back seat, never saw that there
were the seat had been cut out and there was
blood around the area that had been cut never looked
at the seatbelt and saw that there's blood on the seatbelt,
their blood on the trunk. And so it really just
found himself, according to him, in the most extreme circumstance
in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
Now at that point when he got pulled over for
the stolen car, had they found Sabine's body.

Speaker 4 (18:57):
By the time, they didn't find something his body for
seven years she was missing. So they found the car
two days after that she disappeared. But this case was
very much up in the air for an entire seven years.
Is very much cold case.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
Okay, it's good time to take a little break here
with Cutterwood. Love and death in the Sunshine State, the
story of a crime. And his website is a cutterwood
dot com and he has some appearances coming up and
you can find all the dates and locations on the
website cutterwood dot com but in Florida and stuff like that,
book signings and readings and stuff like that. So check
out cutterwood dot com. We'll be right with more of

(19:37):
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ninety nine cents. Okay, welcome back to the Operaman Report.

(25:08):
I'm your host, private investigator Ed Opperman. We're here today
with cutter Wood. He's the author of Love and Death
in the Sunshine State, The Story of a Crime. His
website is cutterwood dot com and he's got some apparents
that's coming up. You can meet him in person down
there in Florida.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
Now.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
I'm reading the reviews and it was saying that it's
not the book is not so much of a who
done it? But of a why done it? It's a
crime of passion. Yeah, right, it's a crime of passion.
But did he tell you what what happened?

Speaker 4 (25:35):
I don't want to get into too much detail, I guess,
since since that is what the book's about. But you know,
I think it was. This is a big part of
what made it so fascinating to me, you know, because
it's it's not just about what, it's about the whole
trajectory of a relationship, from those kind of very heady

(25:58):
first days where everything seems great, full of possibility, you know,
and you decide you're in love and you're going to
move in together and you're going to live together in
Florida and have this fantastic life. And then through the
whole that whole vision falling apart, which is, you know,
I think a familiar thing for a lot of people,

(26:18):
you know, even if it doesn't fall apart, definitely, the
struggles a relationship are very familiar with a lot of people,
and I think also a very a thing that's particularly
specific to Florida, where people go with these real hopes
and visions for their future that don't always come to fruition,
you know. So it follows through that, and then you

(26:38):
kind of see all these little pieces kind of falling
apart in the relationship and stuff getting caught in the gears,
you know, everything from from having trouble getting along with
each other's friends, to arguing about driving the car, to
arguing about drinking things like that, and the final, you know,

(27:01):
the final culminating thing, and this whole whole relationship was
just a small, minor argument about having a cigarette.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
You know.

Speaker 4 (27:10):
This the man had gone outside to have a smoke
and he had given up smoking for Sabina's birthday. She
smelled the cigarette smoke on him when he when he
came back in, and for her that was just kind
of the final straw. You know, she said she was
leaving and he lost it, and you know, this kind

(27:34):
of slowly bubbling, simmering argument just burst into into a
much bigger thing. And then too, you know, I think,
as fascinated as all that is, too is what happens
in a person's mind afterwards. You know, when you realize
you've done something horrific, something you know that you can

(27:59):
never take back, something that's not only you know, lawfully wrong,
but ethically and morally wrong. And so, you know, to
hear his descriptions of coming to terms of what he'd
done and trying to figure out what he could do afterwards,

(28:19):
you know how he could keep getting in trouble for
this That was one of the strangest and most disturbing
and also most fascinating parts. You know, looking down at
this body and thinking, my god, I've got to do something,
I've got to do something, but not being able to
figure out what to do, and this kind of this
terrible turmoil which even once he disposed of the body,

(28:43):
even once time had gone passing it, it seemed like
he was going to get away with the crime was
still at work in him.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yeah, I've heard those confessions, and there's so much regret.
There's so much guilt and self sabotage too. You know,
people just see them sabitsize themselves over and over. What Yeah,
why did he go back and burn the place down when.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
He was well? You know, like I said, it's never
been the statue of limitations is out on that. Now. Okay,
there's there's no danger of anybody going to prison for it,
but it's never been established if it was him, you
know it, certainly the boyfriend was was a very strong
suspect for that because he had a history of arson.

(29:29):
You know, he'd previously set fire to another woman's house.
But you know it, if it was him, it really
doesn't make any sense. Yeah, he if you if you
think that he was guilty of this murder, and it's

(29:50):
been two weeks, they've gotten nothing, you know, they've got
no body, no murder weapon, very little actual evidence. And
then to think, well, I might have gotten away with this,
but to still be so, you know, I can't. It
still is hard for me to put myself in a
headspace where I would think this is what I need

(30:10):
to do is go back and make another statement.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
You know.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
It's almost like he hadn't done enough to her or something,
you know. So it's it's perplexing. I don't think there
israel will ever be an answer. I think even if
even if whoever set that fire could tell me today
why in their mind they said it, I'm not sure
I would believe them because it wouldn't make any sense.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
Yeah, there's that self destructive element, you know, and these
people they just wanted to sabotage themselves and just make
things worse. That just see it so so many times. Yeah,
it's funny to have you mentioned too about how people
they want to go to Florida and change their life,
you know, because I live in Vegas. It's the same
thing here. We got these people that I'm going to

(30:54):
make a new start. You don't go to Vegas and
hardly if it turns out well.

Speaker 4 (31:00):
Now, I know that was that was also a big
part of what really kind of drew me to this case,
is just that was such a familiar refrain in my life.
You know, I grew up working in restaurants. I was
working in restaurants when I got out of college. And
stumbled on this. And you know, if you've ever if
you've ever ever sat at a table of waite staff

(31:20):
after I had the restauran while everybody's counting their tips alfter,
those people are talking about going to Florida or California
or Vegas. Yeah, you know, they say, oh, when I
you know, once I, once I pull together six hundred
bucks or two thousand bucks, I'm making a break for Florida,
you know. And Florida to me was especially fasting just

(31:41):
because I'm from the East coast. You know, I'm from Pennsylvania,
William Cumber. This boyfriend was from Ohio, not so far away.
And people, I feel like, go to Florida for a
very specific reason, which is a little bit different from
Vegas and California. You know, you go to California if
you want this bohemian lifestyle and you want to go
to Hollywood and all that kind of stuff. Right, And

(32:03):
it's also it's harder to go to California if you're
from East coast, right. It takes more gas, it takes
more organization, whereas Florida, you know, you just need two
tanks of gas, you need your first month's rent, and
you can do it. So folks, I think end up
down in Florida with a lot less planning than my experience.

(32:25):
And when I was getting into this case, I really
felt that vibe, that sense with a lot of the
people I was talking to. You know, it's amazing when
you go to any place in Florida almost known it
is from there. And a lot of people showed up
there with almost no forethought. They did just DNA one
night they were like, ah, I can't stand the cold anymore,

(32:46):
got in their car and went to Florida and never
looked back.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
Yeah, it's funny. Just the other day I was thinking
about because I grew up in Staten Island and I
had these neighbors I guess so by fourteen fifteen years old,
back in the seventies, and they would run away and
go to Florida, and they made it down there. They
made it down there a bunch of times, you know,
just but it's kind of like the last stime. So
once you're down there, you're kind of stuck.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
Yeah. Yeah, I had I knew a kid in middle
school who stole his dad's car and and you know,
got in an accident before he left the driveway. But
was still most of the way to Florida before the
cops got him.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Well, these guys actually made it down quite a few times.
I have every running away and their life insurn out
so great either. Now, how did this affect you?

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Man?

Speaker 3 (33:28):
I know this kind of thing has a toll one
in your life, and in the book you get into
all that too. A lot of this book is about
your personal life, and you're looking into this crime and
living in meeting all the people.

Speaker 4 (33:40):
Yeah, you know, it was really strange. You can't, like
I said, you can't you get into something like this,
And I'm guessing you've had this experience and you don't
necessarily right after that expected to become a huge part
of your life, right, And then the more time you've
done with it, the deeper it goes, you know. And
I remember sitting across from this missing woman's brother looking

(34:02):
at basically the childhood photos of her with him and
just seeing the muscles and his jaw just clenching and
unclenching the entire time, clenching and unclenching, and he almost
couldn't even you know, he was telling me what the
photographs were of. You know, this is this is a
picture of Sabina in a hailstorm. This is a picture

(34:23):
of Sabina at a birthday party. This is a picture
of Sabina for cope. But he couldn't actually talk to
me about who she was as a person. When I
finally pressed him on that, all he could get out
really was she was punctual, which is this crazy thing
to say about someone who has been missing at that
point in time for years. So it did it, really,

(34:45):
it really started to weigh in my thinking, you know,
and as I'm down there talking to people and hearing
about this woman's relationships and particularly this relationship with his
boyfriend where they had moved into two months before she disappeared,
and things had very rapidly gone downhill in my own life.

(35:07):
You know, I think I'm twenty three or twenty four
at the time. I had just moved in with my
girlfriend now my wife, very thankfully, and I was finding
it a lot harder than I'd ever been prepared for.
You know, nobody told me that living together was going
to be hard. I thought, I love this woman, We'll
just move in and the you know, things will go
from there. But it was actually a lot of work,

(35:29):
you know, just that those small things of you know,
you get up in the morning and there's still dishes
in the sink, or you trip over somebody's shoes, or
you had to take a shower and the drain is
clogged with hair, and I you know, those aren't to
say that those are all things that she did. A
lot of those were me. But these little stresses just
mount and you're not really prepared for how to talk

(35:50):
about them or understand what's going on. And so I
was finding it very easy to just be extremely frustrated
with somebody I love deeply, and and so as I'm
hearing what was going on in their relationship and they
were actually going through some of the same stuff, it
really made me feel like I needed to reflect on
my own and try to figure out what I could

(36:11):
do to be a better person and a better boyfriend
and now a better husband to the woman that I loved.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Yeah, even when you're young too, you know, new relationships,
even if everything's going smooth, you know, even if you're
not losing your job and you're not getting fired, you know,
and the in laws are sticking your nose, and you know,
it's still so much compromise.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
You know, And.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
Yeah, and it's like compromise squared, right, Yeah, compromise on compromises,
and you compromise on those compromises, and and you do
you do? So, I'll tell you when I when I
was researching this, I stumbled on this old affidavit from
one of William Cumber that was the boyfriend's name. One

(36:58):
of his previous crimes, he'd assaulted someone. And when he
assaulted them, in this affidavit it said he had them
by the throat and he said, why do you defy me?
And it was this weird you know, he's this is
not what this guy sounds like in person, right, It
has this like strange biblical sound to it, and also

(37:20):
this strange like impotence and powerlessness, you know, of why
isn't why aren't things going the way I expected them
to go? And I kept those words were It's always
ringing in my head as I was in my own relationship,
you know, because it is kind of that feeling of
finding yourself compromised and compromised and compromised and not knowing

(37:43):
where will ever end or you know what is under
your control anymore. So there are lots of times it
almost you know, sounds it's a little disturbing, but there
are lots of times in my own life where I
felt like I was kind of mentally raising my fist
at the sky and saying, why do you define me?
And it was so strange to think that this, this

(38:03):
kind of emotion that I had learned about from from
a murder also kind of applied to my own life.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
So do you think it was good? Like the relationship
therapy for you that you I'm kill you go friend
somewhere to our house.

Speaker 4 (38:19):
Sounds crazy to say, you know, but I do. Actually, yeah,
And that's really a lot of what what kept driving
you to this book. You know, it's not it's it's
fascinating to me what goes on in somebody's brain when
they do something extreme and terrible like this, commit a murder.

(38:40):
But it's just as fascinating me what goes on somebody's
brain when they've just they commit some kind of small,
mindless unkindness. You know, I see this stuff. You can't
go out to dinner at a restaurant without seeing a
couple having a small, pointless bickering session, right, you know,

(39:00):
maybe even just not talking to each other. That alone
says something about relationship, right, you know, so you you
become aware of these little things that kind of fraying
of the fabric of two people. So yeah, it was
very lightning for me. And you know, part of the
reason I wrote the book is that I hope, I
hope it shows how you don't need to be a

(39:22):
murderer to still to still do things that you should
regret in your own relationships.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
Yeah, you know, you're absolutely right.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Man.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
Life is so short, you know, and at the end
of our life, on our deathbed, we're going to look
back at our relationships and the people we love. And
I can look back at the money you made, and
you know, the power you've achieved and people you toppled
and stuff in your enemies. You know, you'll look back
at you loved ones, you know, and we treat our
loved ones worse than we do like you and me.
I wouldn't be rude to you now on the phone,

(39:50):
but but someone I was just rude to somebody said
that I care a lot about you know, and it's
very rude to are in a car, you know, just.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
It's mind boggling, right, Yes, that you just like you
just struck on the question, which is at the very
center of this book. Why the heck do we do that.
It's like the closer you become to somebody, the more
you feel able to put them down in a lot
of ways. And it's just it makes no sense.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
Well, I guess because if you do take a.

Speaker 4 (40:18):
Step back and reflect, you know, you can feel so
so grateful and so thankful and show that. But you
have to do it almost every single day or with
every breath, because you can easily backfly.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
We got to get you on doctor Phil dot to Phil,
you'll sell them money in books, man, and he'll be
able to figure this out for us. Let's take a
little commercial break. Yeah, oh, you sell a ton of
books in there. Okay, we're here with the cutter Wood.
You're gonna take a little commercial break. Love and Death
in the Sunshine State, the Story of a Crime. His
website is Cutterwood dot com and he's got a bunch

(40:51):
of appearances coming up down to Florida. Check that out'll
be right.

Speaker 6 (41:00):
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(43:10):
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Speaker 1 (44:30):
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Speaker 9 (44:39):
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Speaker 3 (45:00):
This excellent documentary film is available at Serpents Rising at
Vimeo Videos on demand. Watch it for one dollar and
ninety nine cents. Welcome back to the Operaman Report. I'm
your host, Private investigator Ed Opperman. We're here today with

(45:22):
Cutter Wood, the author of Love and Death in the
Sunshine says the story of a crime. You can find
it at cutterwood dot com, but also Amazon and Barnes
and Noble, all these places, and check out the reviews.
Goose great reviews. I think every single review is a
number five on the top review there. So I got
to run out and get it myself. Now, now, Cutter,
did you but like his Cutter? Would your real name?

Speaker 4 (45:43):
You know? Funny thing. This is what you get when
you have a father who is a woodworker and has
a sense of humor.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
Okay, great, okay, all right, it would be otherwise it
would be a great pen name too. But it's a
great that's a cool name.

Speaker 8 (45:57):
Man.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
I think you think you.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
Heard that's funny.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
You know.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
I always thought like, oh, if I ever, if I
ever do something like publish a book, it's going to
be great to have a name like cutter Wood. It's
so memorable. And then of course if you try to
look me up now, half of the results are going
to be for woodworking equipment.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
Yeah, even on Amazon.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
The next one down is a book about cutting wood. Hey, now,
have you stayed in touch with these guys, like, because
the book just came out April seventeenth, have you stayed
in touch with the brother and then the ex husband
and William Cumber?

Speaker 4 (46:26):
You know, not with all of them, With William Cumber, yes,
a lot of the other folks. You know, this has
just been such a long case and we all thought
it was kind of going to go away. So I
haven't stayed in too much touch with a lot of
the folks.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
And what does Cumber think about the book?

Speaker 4 (46:43):
Well, you know, he hasn't read it, so I don't
know yet he This is kind of, you know, when
you're talking about kind of the Truman Capoti feeling of things.
You never you never really feel when you write this thing.
You never really realize that this is going to be
something that's with you for the rest of your life. So,
you know, it never crossed my mind that I would
still be receive letters from a man in prison, eight

(47:03):
or ten years after after I first got interested in
this case. So I think he I don't tell exactly
what he feels. You know, he goes back and forth.
Sometimes he writes me very very unsettling all caps letters.
Sometimes they're they're much more thoughtful and much more okay
with the project, you know. I think he's still very

(47:26):
interested in a story that kind of humanizes his side
of things. But uh, you know, I don't think it's
fair that anybody finds finds their own depiction in words
to be something they like.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Yeah, you never do like everything, you.

Speaker 4 (47:44):
Know, Yeah, yeah, you it's hard, you know. You everybody
is very multi fascinating, complicated human being, and some of
that is always going to get lost when you when
you put somebody on the page. So we'll see, we'll see.
I hope, you know. My hope for the book certainly
is that there are all these different people who had
had really strong feelings and a large stake in this case,

(48:08):
in this event, in this woman's life. My hope is
just that I've I've written in such a way that
it was fair to everyone. You know, that could mean
that everybody hates it, right, because being fair to one
person might really anger somebody else. But you know, I
hope I've done a good job of depicting who Sabina

(48:28):
musial Dealer was in a compassionate way, and I hope
that all different folks involved feel that they weren't in
any way I'm maligned or wronged by the book.

Speaker 3 (48:42):
Now, the book is so well received, and you talk
about a movie.

Speaker 4 (48:46):
I haven't heard anything yet, you know. Well, I mean
I heard some rumors initially, but but nothing nothing that
I've heard of for sure.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
And has this story been covered anywhere else, like in
the news or in books and movies.

Speaker 4 (49:01):
We know it was a big local case, of course,
because it was so mysterious, right there, tons and tons
of crimes down in Florida. When I remember when I
first talked to a reporter about this, we sat down
and over martinis or something, you know, and she just said, so,
what's your angle? And I was like, oh, geez, I
don't have an angle? Do I need an angle? And

(49:21):
she was like, well, you know, terrible things happened in
Florida all the time. But you know, the angle I
think became on this just that it was such a
mystery that nothing for so long, they had nothing. They
just had these suspicions and these little tiny clues, and
so that really became what it was about.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
Well, you spent seven years of your life on this,
What are you working on now?

Speaker 4 (49:51):
Great question? Great question, you know it's I never I
don't know how you ended up in I have an investigation,
but this never was something that I really thought was
in the cards for me going down writing this kind
of book, spending all this time going into prisons and
interviewing people, or or sitting across from bereeves loved ones

(50:15):
and you know it, Like we were talking about, it
fits tough on on them and it's tough on you.
Hence I think I would like to do something a
little bit lighter. I I've I've always kind of wanted
to write something about restaurants, just because I kind of
have a background on that, so that that might be

(50:36):
where I'm headed next, But who knows. I'm I'm I'm
taking as it comes. I'm not trying to rush into
another ten year project anytime. See it. Maybe my maybe
my biggest plan is just whatever I do next, I
don't want it to take this long.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
YEA, hopefully, Yeah, and right now, I guess you're're confident
focusing on the media too, right.

Speaker 4 (50:55):
Yeah, yeah, So I'm traveling around right now. It's going
kind ofpping from one city to the next, doing readings
and meeting people and talking about this project.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
Okay, great, listen, we're out of time. How can people
get a hold of you? And what do you want
to leave us worth? I let this sum this up?

Speaker 4 (51:12):
Well, you know, so you can always you can find
all my work online, have new essays up recently online,
and you can always find more information about the tour
and about the book just by going to cutterwood dot com.
That's probably the best place. And if anybody wants to
reach out to me, they can always there's a contact
form on there that you can always use to reach
out to me. I guess the final takeaway on this
is just be nice to the people you love. That's

(51:34):
that's really. It sounds kind of like a strange takeaway
for a book which is about a murder, but that
is the takeaway, right, It's easy, easy to kind of
go down that path little by little, look kind of
realizing what's going on. So take a deep breath every time,
every time you want to say something unkind to someone
you care about and just don't do it.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
And you said, there's another website called new Essays.

Speaker 4 (52:00):
Oh, I was just saying, I have a number of
new essays up online at different sites.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
You know.

Speaker 4 (52:04):
I think there's one in American Short Fiction right now
and one in the Paris Review, So you can find
those two, and those both kind of talk about the
process of working on this project.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
Yeah, gotcha. Thank you so much, Ben, I really appreciate this.

Speaker 4 (52:16):
Thanks for having me. Good.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
Sure, Okay, wait, Cutter would, I gotta fix that thing
said making that little noise when I hang up on people.
Cutter would Love and Death in the Sunshine State, the
Story of a True Crime, And you can find his
website cutter would dot com. It's spelled just like you
would think Cutter it would. You know the last times
would for name Cutter dot com got a bunch of
appearances coming up in Florida Communiment in person. Oh boy,
you know, it's amazing. He was talking about how he

(52:39):
got involved in this thing and then seven years later,
you know, he's still involved in it. And it just
brought my memory back to so many cases like that
Sarah Palin case that I got involved in, you know,
with that young woman who has a massage therapist was
having a relationship with Todd Palin, and you know, I
debated whether I should take the case, and then just
you know, it would just dragged on for years and

(52:59):
years and years, and then it escalated into that whole
by coincidence, into that whole Secret Service thing down in
Columbia with the Secret Service agents being connected to Sarah
Palin and walped up a congressional investigation. But just to
you don't realize, and you get involved in these people
in their lives, and you do get and you do

(53:19):
get letters from prison, you know, people you helped out
ten years ago and they send your letter ten years
later and say, hey, you know Ed, I'm still in
prison here. You know, you know, uh, it's and then
his life is a strange twists and turns.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
You know.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
As a matter of fact, In the next part of
the show, we're going to be doing a show about creatum,
about that new drug. It's not even a drug, it's
an herb.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
We have the.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
Spokesperson for the American Creatom Association dot Org on the show,
and it's this herb you can get in Southeast asia
and helps with the withdrawal from heroin. You know, we
were talking with a cutter would about how the people
we love, you know, the people you love the most,
you're closest to the most, you'll we'll turn around and

(54:11):
you'll go strangle them. And when I did that show,
the interview about the creative I did a couple of
weeks back because I had this really close friend who
was going through a horrible Heroin addiction and withdrawals, you know,
and while it was going on, and right afterwards, you know,
I love you so much. Oh I love you. Saved
my life and you're my best friend. You take care
of me, you know, Oh, I love you too. We
got the future here we don't work on this one

(54:32):
and work on that. And here we are now a
couple of weeks. I don't want to talk to each other.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
You know. It's just.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
Fascinating human interaction and how people you're cruelest to the
ones you love the most. I guess as you think
they owe you something, Maybe that's my I should go on,
doctor Phil and you could tell me why. Another thing
that brought to my mind was that case. I've talked
about it many many times at death penalty case I
had done in West Virginia where this guy killed his

(55:01):
ex wife and dumped her body in a mine shaft
or a cave or something like that. Field it was.
He had a he put a body in a refrigerator
and he pushed it over his cliff. And my job
was to do the cell phone forensics on that. And
I had to examine his cell phone, you know, and
produce a report on the exhibits, on the items, his

(55:21):
text messages, and his pictures in the phone. And you know,
I'm looking through the guy's phone and got a picture
of his little nine year old son. They're fishing, you know,
and the mother's there, the father's there, the little boy's fishing.
They're all happy and happier days, you know. And then
then you go down pictures later on, you see pictures
of the bullet woman in this woman's body. He took
a picture of the bullet from his own phone, you know.

(55:43):
And again, you know, here's that's a case. It affected
me again for years and years and years. I can
still in my mind's I can see the picture a
little bull. I can see the pictures a little boy
fishing with the dad and the mom you know, and
the little boy just thinking, not only did he lose
his mother to murder, loss has followed to prison. You know,
right now, I think that kid must be twenty years old,

(56:05):
now twenty one years old. Wonder what happened to him?

Speaker 4 (56:08):
You know?

Speaker 3 (56:09):
Anyway, Love and Death in the Sunshine State the Story
of a Crime by cutter Wood. Great reviews. Check it out.
I'll have a link in the Opperaman Report bookstore. You
can check that out as well. Now listen if you
like these shows, there's a lot more content in our
member section at Opperamanreport dot com. I just uploaded a
couple of new shows here. One is with the Grand
Stern about the Felix Satyr and Ross Neften and Russia

(56:33):
Gate and all that stuff with Trump. And another one
was what was that other one? It's another good one
and I can't remember. Oh, Chap Equittic did a show
by Chap Equittic with the Mike Rothmilon. That's great show.
I got a couple of things coming up to. I
want to be doing a show about Poppy, that YouTube sensation,
a little girl up to some bizarre stuff. Got that

(56:53):
coming up. It's gonna be going with up in a
member section. But we're at the end of the month.
You know, got those end of the month bills, got
speaker and the internet and that kind of stuff in
the radio aretime I have to pay for it. So
if you want to like keep the show on the air,
you can purchase a subscription to our member section and
I'll give you a discount. You can contact me directly
at Opperman Report at gmail dot com and I'll give

(57:16):
you thirteen months for sixty bucks. Okay, it's a real
big discount and it'll help keep us on the air
because we have all these big expenses at the end
of the month, and once again, you know, we're not
meeting those expenses, so you know, then it comes out
of my pocket. I got to work extra time to
keep the show on air. And I know there's a
lot of hundreds thousand people love this show. So if
you like the show now you can support it is
through the members section. There even more than sponsoring the

(57:39):
show and advertising on the show. But although we do
have great advertising ready to can contact me on that
as well at Oppermanreport at gmail dot com. Great show
coming up, we have what is this guy Parker? Oh,
I got this guy who knows the Beatles, he did
the show, but Sid and Nancy, Sid Nicious, Sid Vicious
and Nancy his wife. He thinks Nancy was murdered. And

(57:59):
then we have Romote to Africa from the group Move
that was bombed and attacked and burned alive down there
in Philadelphia back in the eighties. She's the lone survivor.
Even the little boy that escaped with her from this
bombing and shooting attack on their compound. Even the little
boy who grew up and died, he died in a

(58:19):
drowning on a cruise ship, a little boy named Bertie,
and says, we have a Roman Africa. Come on. She's
been on the show several times before. And a couple
of the members of the Move family from there in Philadelphia.
They're coming up for parole, some of the women, and
it's a horrific story.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
You know.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
They want a civil lawsuit, you know, against this unwarranted
attack on their home and their families there. And the
judge says, yeah, the police have to give you one
dollar a year for a one hundred thousand years some
nonsense like that. Hey, a couple of the women are
up for parole and these are women who admittedly, the

(58:57):
judge admitted it, the police admitted the prosecuted never fired
a gun. And we're down in a basement that was
being filled up with water. They were being attacked by
water cannons and they were holding their little babies over
their heads, standing up on tables holding their babies over
their heads. So their babies went and drowned while they
were being shot at. And they couldn't escape this attack
on their home because they were being shot at. And

(59:18):
these women have been in prison for some twenty twenty
five thirty years, but they were up for parole. So
maybe we can write some letters to parle board and
make some phone calls down there and sure and get
some action. So thank you so much. Opermanreport dot com
is our member section. You can sign up there, or
if you want to get a discount operman Report at
gmail dot com, Uper Report at gmail dot com, we'llive

(59:39):
you thirteen months for sixty bucks. We'll be right back.
After these messages, we're gonna be talking about create them.
This wonder herb that will help you with the heroin withdrawals. Okay,
and I witnessed that first hand myself. It's a tragic
thing to watch