November 12, 2025 • 50 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Okay, welcome to the Opperman Report. I'm your host, private
investigator at Opperman and you can find us here every
Friday night, five pm Pacific Standard Time on Revolution Radio,
Freedomslips dot Com Studio. A tonight, we have a really
big guest. This is someone who I was really hoping
to get for a while, and it's kind of fitting
(00:22):
that we would have her on tonight with all this stuff.
Everyone's heard about the Waco and Ruby Ridge and everybody's
all up in arms about this Bundee Ranch situation. But
this is really one of the first families in America
that were attacked by the police in their home and
bombed and a bomb was dropped on them and then
(00:44):
they were set fire to and I believe either five
or six children were died in this bombing, this police
bombing on this innocent family, and sixty homes of totally
unin off people and the friends and neighbors of this
group were also burned out of their homes in Philadelphia
(01:06):
in the mid eighties. And I've always wanted to bring
this story to the public because so many people don't
know about it. And I want to thank our producer,
Keith Davis, who was in touch with the Ramona Africa,
who is now the lone surviving member of that bombing
in Philadelphia back in the eighties. Ramona, are you there.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'm here on the move, Amen.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Ramona, thank you so much for coming. Can you tell
us describe what MOVE is, what kind of organization it is,
what kind of a group it is?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Okay, Move is a revolutionary organization founded by John Africa.
When I say revolutionary organization, what makes us revolutionary is
that we have one common belief, one very simple belief,
and that is in life. Our belief is in the
(02:06):
sanctity the all importance of life, without categorizing whether it's
animal life, human life, plant life, the water that we
cannot exist without, the air we cannot exist without, you know,
the anything life, the earth that fees us that we
can't exist without.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
You know.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
This is what John Africa taught MOVES people is road priority.
Nothing is more important than life.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Or the force which we call.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Mother Nature, our mama, our mother that coordinates all of life.
Because we have that one simple degreief, the government system
that we have been at war with ever since moved
(03:02):
because those that run the system and believe in this
system don't care about life. They have betrayed and bothered
the life in all of us and around all of
us for money, for money. They have compromised life for money.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
They have compromised the air for air pollution, they have
compromised the water for water pollution. They have compromised the
earth that feeds us, you know, for toxic waste.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
In the earth.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
And when move not only speaks about these things and
always spoke about these things and confronted those that are
pushing these things, I'm talking about officials, political officials, also
those behind them, these industrialists, you know, that don't care
(04:04):
about the air, the water, or animals or anything that's
a lot. Their god is a dollar bill and they
don't care what they have to do to keep that
money flowing. When we would confront them, you know, initially,
not a lot of attention was paid to Move Back
(04:25):
in the very early seventies when we first surfaced in Philadelphia.
But as our message got out and our first demonstrations
were active Zoo demonstrating against the abuse and imprisonment and
enslavement of animals, innocent animals. When this government locks people up,
(04:51):
gives them life sentences in prison, they say it's because
the person committed a crime was wrong. Well, what crime
did the lion commit to be sentenced to life in
prison rather than being able to run free, you know
in the jungles of Africa where they're supposed to be
(05:14):
you know, what about birds that had to spend their
life in a cage? What crime did they commit? You know?
And we would put out information about these things. We
would demonstrate the unsafe boarding homes for the elderly, where
elderly people had their social Security checks basically stolen by
(05:35):
the people that run these homes, where the homes were
virtually nothing but fire tracks, where they were emotionally and
physically mistreated.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Abuse.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
We had demonstrations at the school board, you know, behind
what they were teaching, you know, our children, and also
the lack of protectiveness forward the children, I mean children
were being sexually abused by counselors, teachers, being physically abused
(06:12):
you know in schools. And we spoke out on all
these things and the government start getting real nervous.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
The group was basically started by John Africa absolutely and
then he had how did he get a group together?
Like he just started out with a couple of friends
or his wife, his family, like, how did he gather
people around him to follow his vision?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
What happened is John Africa had a friend who was
a professor at Community College of Philadelphia, and he would
talk to his friend, his name was Donald Glassie, and
he would have Donald right down, you know, the points
(06:58):
and the principles that John Africa was explaining to him,
and they would later be typed up. And what happened
was Donald Glassy started incorporating some of these teachings, this
belief into classes at Community College. And then John Africa
(07:21):
invited some of Donald Glassy's students to his home to
talk about and discuss, you know, these teachings, and they
would be giving a copy, you know, a section of
information that John Africa had Donald Glassy, you know, ragged down,
(07:45):
and Donald Glassy typed it up and was distributed to
these students, and then they would come to study sessions.
They would call and they would be talked about and
John Africa would explain in more detail, you know, what
exactly he was talking about from. You know a lot
(08:09):
of people asked that question and I cannot answer it.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
For certain except to say.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
That it did not come from academia. John Africa was
said to be illiterate according to consistent standards. He could
not really read or write. He rejected schooling. You know,
he was recorded, I believe, as going to school up
(08:39):
until about the third grade, I think something like that,
but he resisted it even at that point and then
just would not go back. So he was like illiterate
according to system standards. So he didn't get it from academia.
He was just always in touch the life and vehemently
(09:03):
opposed to anything that goes against life, meaning anything that
exploits in prisons or enslaves, that pollutes or poisons, or
names or kills anything that's a life. He's just always
(09:23):
been opposed to that and always very reverent and protective
of anything that's a live. And you know, I guess
as he got older he was able to, you know,
explain it more and speak on it more. But other
than that, I cannot explain to you how John Africa
(09:45):
got this understanding.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Now, is he alive today or is he in prison
or was he a murdered by the police the bombing
he died in the second bombing.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Okay, yeah, well there was only one bombing.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Second, the second police attack, right, right, but.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
You know that's true. Move is, it's what we believe in.
And for those that run this system to attack us
the way they did and to feel so threatened by us,
and to really.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Hate us the way they do, because.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I mean, you have to really hate somebody to bomb
them and burn them alive, including babies, you have to
hate them. The question is why what about our belief
is so threatening? It's threatening because those running this system
(10:49):
do not care about or believe in life. The force
starts keeping them alive. They don't believe in it, and
they're not want to have anybody, you know, exposing them
and influencing people to put poority on life, on what's important,
(11:12):
So they want to get rid of us. And initially
their so called strategy was to offer us money in
their times, funding for you know, different projects we might
want to do and jobs, you know, positions in this system.
(11:37):
But MOVE made it clear that we cannot be bought
off or bribed or co opted to compromise what we
know is right, compromise life for a job.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
A dollar bill, you know, a salary.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
And when they saw that they couldn't buy us off
or co opt us, that is when the brutality and
attempted and I say attempted intimidation began because move will
not never was intimidated, but they tried. They tried. When
(12:15):
move people would set up a peaceful, peaceful administration at
some institution of this system, whether it was the zoo,
whether it was the border of education, whether it was
a conference held by Dow Chemical or do pot Chemicals,
you know, institutions that toison the environment. What would happen
(12:41):
is when we would set up, cops would come out
there and they would tell us that we could not demonstrate.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
To cease and desist.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
To pack up and go home and move. Wouldn't just
you know, go along with that. We questioned them, We said,
what are you talking about? We can't have a peaceful demonstration.
You know, isn't this America. Will you tell the world
that in America all these freedoms exist. Freedom of speech,
(13:14):
freedom you know, to protests and demonstrate, freedom of the press,
freedom of religion, all these freedoms. What does the Declaration
of Independence or the Constitution say accept move you know,
what are you talking about? That's when the beatings would start.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Movement would be beat.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
By cops into unconsciousness and to broken lens.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
You know, how many members did you have at that time?
I'm sorry, how many members did you have at that
time when you were at the first house you were
doing these demonstrations and stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Well, at the very beginning of MOVE, I think there
was maybe close to one hundred members. But as the
beatings started and the attempted intimidation by this system, there
were those who, you know, just honestly said I can't
(14:14):
do it, you know, I can't do it. And some
said that and left and were supporters who would do
whatever they felt like they could do. Some others were
more insecure and more egotistical, and rather than be honest
(14:37):
with themselves, they tried to find fault with MOVED, with
MOVE beliefs instead of with the system that was beating
them and trying to attimidate them. Those people left and
were not supporters, and you know, they just left and
never came back. Some of them even tried to just
(15:00):
same moves, I guess, to make themselves feel better about
themselves and not look at themselves as not being able to,
you know, stand up for what is right.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Sure, that's yeah. Around that time, in the mid seventies,
there was a lot of FBI cointel, pro and infiltration
undercover cops in movements and different revolution groups. Did you
guys experience that as well?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (15:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
The federal government tried to frame move people up, including
John Africa and several you know other move members on
federal charges of weapons charges, bombing terrorists, you know, international
(15:48):
terrorism charges, conspiracy and in fact, they wanted to arrest
John Africa back in like nineteen seventy seven, I believe
it was on these charges, but they couldn't find John Africa.
And in nineteen eighty one, on May thirteenth of nineteen
(16:12):
eighty one, no less, they arrested John Africa and other
move people up in Rochester, New York. And in nineteen
eighty one, John.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Africa went on trial with my brother.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Mo Africa in fedral court for two months.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
It was a two month trial.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
And he had exactly those charges on him and John
Africa could have gotten i mean, the rest of his
life in prison, you know, if he had been found guilty.
John Africa went into court represented himself. This is a
man that is illiterate, has no political or financial influence
(17:00):
about a black man with long knotty air dreadlocks coming
into federal court with a sweatshirt, jeans, and boots old
boots on, never made an opening statement, never cross examined
any other prosecution witnesses, never raised one objection, slept through
(17:25):
most of the trial where there were two prosecutors bringing
in these bags of black powder that they said was
explosives belonging to John Africa. I mean they did everything
to try to get John Africa convicted of all of
these charges. I mean they wanted him back. John Africa
(17:48):
made a closing statement at that trial bot himself and
our brother North Africa acquitted of every single charge. Now
that is unprecedented by a rich white man, let alone
our money poor revolutionary black man. But you don't hear
(18:12):
about that.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
No, I had never heard about that. I had never
heard about that part of the story. And I actually
I met you guys some of the move members came
down to yippie headquarters in the I guess it was
the late seventies or early eighties and wrote, yeah, we
wrote a story about you in Overthrown newspaper. And I
had not even I was familiar with that part of
the story. That's amazing, Oh.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Yeah, oh yeah. And that is why Monia Abu Jamal.
If people are familiar with him, he's a journalist that
was on death row for like thirty years and we
finally were successful in getting him off of death row
and we're still working for him anyway. When Moonia went
(18:59):
to court State court, he was accused wrongly of killing
a police officer and when he got ready to go
to trial, he asked for John Africa.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
This was in I.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Guess he started going to trial in January of eighty
two because the incident happened in December of eighty one.
And Momia asked for John Africa not to be his
lawyer because he knew that the courts would never, you know,
go for that day say he's not a member of
the bar. He gave represent uroever, but Momia wanted John
(19:37):
Africa to just be at the table with him to
count for him to advise him and that's perfectly acceptable.
But the courts would not do it. And that's what
they tried to say, Well, he's not a member of
the bar, he's not a lawyer, and Monia was like, well, shoot,
I can't.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Tell he with the federal government doing up.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
But that's why Momia wanted him. He knew what he
was looking at. He saw what John Africa did in
federal court, you know. But yeah, I mean, look, John
Africa is teaching in life being the priority, you know,
being what we need to be respectful of and protective
(20:25):
us for our own sake. Nobody can dispute that. Nobody
can dispute that, because I defy anybody to name me
anything that's more important than life and the force that
coordinates life. What is more important than that money, jewels
(20:51):
and gems, a fashionable car, are being home? You know what?
What is more important than that?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Gold?
Speaker 3 (21:02):
You know, gold is light. But for people that want
to separate that and say yeah, I would want gold, Yeah, Well,
have an asthma attack or a heart attack, and see
if you scream for a tank.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Full of gold or a tank full of air.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
You know, amen, I hear you.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
If it comes comes very clear at that point, what's important?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
What's it's a great attic in it. Half. Well, we're
down to the last five minutes of this portion of
the show, So what do you want to get into
the next Before the break?
Speaker 3 (21:45):
I would like to talk just a little bit about
August eight of nineteen seventy eight, the first police attack
or MOVE just briefly as a background to the bomby
please do okay, because of Moves, uncomp uncompromising stands for life,
(22:06):
and because the government saw that they could not stop us,
and because we were influencing.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
So many people who heard the quality.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
In the teaching of John Africa and saw the genuine, consistent,
serious example of Moves, you know, in demonstrating our belief.
The government was messed up. You know, they didn't want
us influencing people that way because you know, that would
(22:40):
mean the demise of people believing in their system. So
they manufactured for the call reasons for them to attack us.
They said our home had Housing CO violations, housing code
violations like no screens in the window. We did not
(23:01):
have electricity or gas in our house, so it wasn't
a fire hazard or anything, you know, But they said
our home had Housing GO violations, which is ridiculous because
these people don't care about poor people, revolutionary people predominantly
(23:23):
and I say predominantly black people because there are white
people in MOVE or Spanish speaking people in MOVE. We
are not a black organization anyway. They don't care about
people like us living in a house that has housing
co violations. You can't get the Department of License and
(23:45):
Inspection to make landlords make necessary repairs in homes that
they lease the people and collect money every monthly. People
and the rules are leaking the furner to heating, furnaces
go out in the winter, the water you know, tank breaks,
(24:07):
and I mean all kinds of things happen, but you
can't get this government agency known as the Department of
License and Inspection to do anything about it. But they
care so much about moved people living in a home
that doesn't have screens in a window, you know, So
(24:28):
they used that as an excuse to say they wanted
us out of our home, wanted us to vacate our
home by August first.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
And some move people did go on to other activities
in Richmond, Virginia, in upstate New York, you know, but
other move people stayed in move headquarters. So a judge
named g. Fred de Bona, a civil judge.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Warrant for every move person that he knew of. Even
though he knew that some move people were not in
that house had went on to other coordinated activities, didn't matter.
They issued warrant for every move person that they thought
they knew of and that's what they used as an
(25:21):
excuse to attack our home or August eighth of nineteen
seventy eight. Now, since when.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
You're gonna ask a question though they've been able to
get a rest warrant before an eviction or or rest
warrant based on an eviction, Well they did.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
They said that movie boy had committed a crime by
not vacating the premises.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Eating. Yeah I'm here. Yeah, I'm just in shock.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
But you can see that it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
It's nothing but an excuse.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
And I'm not saying it's illegal, because legality is whatever
they say it is, doesn't matter, you know, but yes,
that is what they need.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
Actually, the warrant that they came out there with was
actually a rule to show cause why move people should
not be held in a contemptive court for not vacating
supremacist and.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
They shout up a huge force with a whole squad
of police officers. Uh oh, we got a break coming up.
We're with Amona Africa, a surviving member of a police
attack on a family a group quote Move in the
nineteen eighties. Her website is on a move dot Com,
on a move dot Com and She's also here to
(26:47):
promoting bring awareness to a movie about this story that
came out. It's out there right now. It's called Let
the Fire Burn dot Com. We'll be right back after
this break with Ramona Africa, a beautiful woman. You can
to hear the heart on this woman when she talks
about life and UH and freedom and revolution and uh.
This is the kind of thing that they want to
(27:08):
stifle in us. And when they can't silence us and
they can't decie for them, which is what they do,
they attack us and they trying to prison us and
four of us alost and even a flight again and
get curious about the plan out there. Welcome back to
the Opera Room Report. I'm your host, Private Investigator at
(27:29):
Opperman every Friday night, five pm. Freedom Slips dot Com
on Studio a h. We got coming up in the
in the upcoming weeks. We're gonna have an author of
the Book of matt which is the true story of
the Matthew Shepard case. And there's a lot of stuff
in that case that I know about. This is gonna
be coming out on that show. We're gonna have Cindy
Sheehan who's gonna be running for governor. And we also
have we're gonna be doing a show about the Jim
(27:50):
Jones and Jonestown Guyana. But tonight we have a true
revolutionary hero in this country, someone who's who fought the
good fight and came under attack and still standing. Right now,
we have Ramona Africa, representative of the group Moved. Her
website is on a move dot com and please visit
that website and book market because there's nine members of
(28:13):
the Move family from this first attack, this first unprovoked
police attack way back in the seventies that are still
in prison to this day. Now you got people, well,
I don't go on a rant, but there's also a
website called letthfireburn dot com which is Ramona's a movie
about the uh.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
My movie, let's not get a movie about.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
We'll get you in a movie, Ramona, don't worry, I'll
get you. I'll put you in my movie when they
do a movie about me. But so what people.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Thinking is our movie because you know, we didn't do it.
We don't have a problem with it because the filmmaker
Jason Oster, uh we do not be same move or
anything like that. We feel like the movie is okay,
but could have been better. He interviewed the two extensive
(29:07):
interviews with me, He interviewed other people, you know, involved
in the whole bombing situation, which I assume with some officials,
et cetera. But in the end, he chose not to
use any of that in the film. He just used
archival footage from the commission put together by Wilson Good
(29:30):
after the bombing.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
And other archival footage.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
And you know, we feel like we understand why he
did that because he didn't want really any controversy. He
didn't want to be seen as a move supporter or
anything like that. He felt like he would just use
the archival footage, show people, you know, what was going on,
(29:55):
and love it at that.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
And that's his right.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
I mean, you know, sure, that's just right. We don't
have a problem with that. I'm just saying that's.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
What he did.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
We feel like it could have been a much better
movie if he had used, you know, some of the
interviews that he had done. But look, we tell people
to go see the movie.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah, more people need to know this story, that's a fact,
and more people need to know that there's nine members
of this movement that are still in prison. To this day, Ye.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
A minute, there there are eight move members still in prison,
going on thirty.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Six years now.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
One of my sisters, Merle Africa, died in nineteen ninety
seen money unjust years in prison. We firmly believe that
they did something to her. Talking about a strong, healthy
move woman that ran you know, daily exercise, didn't have
(30:57):
any problems until suddenly she had some kind of stomach
virus or something that she was experiencing. And it wasn't bad,
but you know, she had an upset stomach from kind
of stomach virus and they made her take what they
call it lay in where you're confined to your cell.
(31:18):
You don't go to your job, your prison job. If
you have school classes, you don't go to your classes
or anything like that. They send food trays to yourself
so you don't leave yourself. Merl got one food tray.
They made her take the lay and she didn't want it,
they made her take it. They sent her one tray
(31:40):
and that night she got up to use the bathroom
passed out. It took them a while to get an
ambulance there, even though the ambulance was only like ten
minutes away.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
In the middle of the night, there's no traffic.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
They took her to the hospital and the next thing
we heard had passed away and got all kinds of
like two or three different reasons of her cause of death.
So there is something really wrong with that picture.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
As far as tragic. But Ramona, didn't they put you
in prison as well?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
After our family went on trial in nineteen seventy eight,
you know, for the death of a police officer, which
it was perfectly clear that they could not have killed.
Nine of my family members went on trial for the
death of a count that was killed with one bulley
(32:44):
from one gun. They charged nine of my family members
with it. They went on trial even though right after,
right after they took my family into custody, I'm talking
about within hours, they completely demolished our hope. They demolished
(33:07):
most headquarters. Now that was the scene of the crime.
That was vital evidence. Wow, Since when do officials destroy
evidence in a serious murder trial, particularly where a police
officer is killed.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
And people understand this. This is years prior to the firebombing.
This is a whole different relation, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
This is the root of the bombing. Our unrelenting fight
for the release of our innocent family members who judge
Edwin Dowman one of his illness. Was not a jerry trial,
it was eventual trial. He found all nine of my
family members guilty of murder and sentenced each of them
(33:58):
to thirty or min in them one hundred year maximum sentences.
Then went on a radio talk show program a day
or two after that, after sentencing my family, come on
and when asked a direct question about who killed that cop,
(34:18):
he said, I haven't the faintest idea, but he had
just convicted and sentenced my family. So move waged a
move waged an unrelenting site for our family, you know,
exposing the conspiracy against our family. And when the government
(34:43):
could not shut us up, they decided, well, look, we
can't silence them. You know, jail doesn't stop them, beating
doesn't stop them, we can't bribe them or anything. Well,
we're just going to have to kill them.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
So it may sound far sech to some people, but
others may understand exactly what I'm talking about. It's the
same policy that this government institutes abroad overseas with various
you know, leaders of countries that they want to get
(35:23):
rid of.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
They kill them.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
They kill them, you know, And that's what they did
with move. They worked over a year, well over a year,
coming up with the plan that involved involved the bombing
of our home, and when they felt that they had
(35:47):
a workable plan, that's when they came out there and
bombed our home. They had no reason, no you know, uh,
justifiable reasons to do it. So what they did after
they felt like they had this workable plan, they reached
(36:08):
back two weeks before May thirteen, when cops was all
around the back of our home and our dogs were barking,
and we looked out back and saw all these cops.
Turned on the speaker at our house and let our
neighbors know that cops were all around the back of
(36:28):
our house. We didn't know what they were up to.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
But we don't trust them. We know they're up to
no good, and we.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Were not going to let them bust in our house,
you know, and people not know what was going on.
That was our message.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
We were on the.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Loudspeaker maybe ten minutes. Okay, another cop, a plane clothes cop,
walked up the front steps of our home, knocked on
the door. We went out there, two of us, me
and my sister Juris Africa, who was killed in the bomby,
went out talked to this cop for about an hour.
(37:06):
About an hour we stood out there talking to him.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
He left, he walked away.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
We went back in the house. I mean, nothing happened.
But there May eleventh, you know, a Saturday, when the
cops suck like they were ready to move on us.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
To kill us.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
They went to Judge Lynn Abraham's home and when asked
why they went to her, they said because she was.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
The emergency judge.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
They went and got her to sign warrants.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
For four of us, four of.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
Us, myself and three of my sisters and brothers, charging
us with crimes on April twenty ninth of disorderly, kind.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Of terroristic.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
On nothing, nothing.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
You know.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
The tops stood out there on April twenty ninth talking
to us for over an hour. Would he do that
if he felt terrorized and threatened?
Speaker 2 (38:14):
You know?
Speaker 3 (38:15):
But they didn't have anything else, so they reached back
and picked that out of the hat and went and
got warrants to try to justify their.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Attack on us.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
And they were still pissed off that they failed to
kill move people in nineteen seventy eight because they tried.
That's what it was about. It wasn't about an arrest.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
It was about killing. Moved people off, and they were.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Mad because they failed. So this time when they feel
like they had another chance, they were going for AUGUSTA.
They came out there. Not only with the artillery of
war that they came out there within seventy eight, they
came out there this time in eighty five with a
(39:09):
fifty caliber machine gun and sixty automatic rifle, a sniper
rifle with silences on it.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
I believe there was a fire hose too, right that
they were pointing and trying to knock down parts of
the building.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
War four w toses, fire hoses that pumped out ten
thousand pounds of water pressure per minute. Four hoses, that's
forty thousand pounds of water pressure per minute. And you know,
you can never really have or conceive of just how
(39:43):
much pressure that is. It's horrendous. Think about Bull Connors
in the South.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
In the sixties.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
You know when he had his fire people, firefighters turned
those hoses on demonstrators, how people were knocked off their
seat and how much that was. But anyway, it.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Without the last ten minutes, So get out with you
have to get out, okay, all right.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Basically, you know they came out there to kill They
used all of those means to kill us. And when
the ten thousand seven rounds.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Of bullets didn't kill us and bring.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Us out the house, when the water pressure didn't, when
the tear gas didn't, they dropped a bomb on our home.
They got a state police helicopter with to shut up
your bomb squad in it, and a state policeman as
a helicopter, another state policeman as a co pilot, and
(40:47):
without any warning, I mean, they said nothing, made no
announcements at all, they flew over our home and dropped
that bomb on.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
The roof of our home.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
The fire commissioner admitst openly that he was made aware
that there was a.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Fire on the roof of our house.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
And that that fire, which he termed an incipient fire,
a fire in the beginning stages, could have been extinguished
at that point, but a conscious decision was made to
let that fire burn. And when they did that, it
(41:28):
was clear that they didn't care about anybody in that house.
Because when have you ever heard of firefighters who run
into burning buildings to save people? When have you ever
heard of them making a decision to let a house burn,
let a fire burn. When there are men, women, babies,
(41:52):
animals in that structure, in that building, it never happens.
But they did that in May teen eighty five because
their aim was to kill, not to arrest. When we realized,
because we were all in the basement, when we realized
(42:12):
that our home was on fire, we immediately tried to
get our children, our animals, and ourselves out of that basement,
you know, out of that house.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
But they were.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
Exactly that's what I was getting ready to said. The
instant they saw us trying to come out, and we
were hollering, we're coming out.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
We're bringing the kids out. We're coming out.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
The kids were hollering, we're coming out. They're bringing us out.
The instant they could see us, they opened fire, shooting
us back into that burning building. At least twice. At
least twice people asked me, well, how did you and
Birdie get out? You know, how did y'all get out?
Speaker 2 (42:59):
We were the close to the door.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
But the thing was your face with a situation where
you're gonna choke on smoke, choked to death and be
burned alive or possibly be shot to death. So we
were trying to get out of that building, and miraculously,
and I don't use that word loosely, we you know,
(43:24):
weren't shot. We made it out and we weren't shot.
We were burned severely, both of us, but we were
not shot to death.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
But people that were still.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
In the house coming out behind us. The medical examiner
reported that they not only were burned alive, but they
had bullet fragments in them, bullet fragments from where the
cops shot at them.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
But then they weren't satisfied with that. They arrested you
and threw you in prison for how many years? Nine years?
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Seven years.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
There was a charge to me with everything that they did,
but they had to throw out all of the charges
listed in the warrants that they came out there with.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Because they were bogus.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
There was, you know, no validity to them. So they
threw out all the charges that they claimed they came
out there to deal with and charged me with everything
that they did on May twelfth and thirteenth, because they
came out there on Mother's.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Day, Sunday, May twelfth, It ended on May.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Thirteenth, but they came out there on Mother's Day. Anyway,
I was found guilty of one charge riot.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Riot.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
I'm in my own house where we're minding our business
and we're surrounded by.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Cops who attack us, but.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
We riot to I mean, I would say unbelievable, but
it's very believable.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Because you live through it. You live through it. But
to me, I'm sitting here in shock, and I know
this story, and I can't believe that people hearing this
story right now are not outrage and why this Yeah,
this is a national tragedy, this story. How many children
were killed in the ages of those children that were
murdered in that building.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Five children and six adults. I don't know the age
because we don't really deal with that, you know, but
they were very young children, very young. I mean, they
weren't even teenagers, you know, they were young children.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Now, when when Bertie the young man, young boy Bertie,
when he got out, did he live a happy life?
Have always his lifelike? I know, he just died recently too,
in another tragic circumstances. Too young.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
But they took Bertie for move and they dug up
his father, biological father out of the woodworks because Bertie's
mother was killed in the bombing, and his mother Ronda,
and his father biological father and Dina had been separated,
(46:16):
divorced since Bertie was an infant, and then Ronda came
to move with Bertie when he was a baby, and
and Dino had nothing to bring with thirty from that
point on. But they dug him out of the Woodwork,
and you know, pushed him to get custody of Bertie
(46:38):
because they were not going to allow him back with
move that they died and go to hell before they
did that. So they dug him out bird and what
And Dino wood saw in Bertie his dollar signs. He
obviously didn't care about the boy. You know, he had
no contact with him, egan up to right before May thirteen,
(47:02):
when the media was hyping.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Things up a bit.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
He didn't come to O Saint Avenue and say, you know,
I know my son is in there, or is my
son in there? I want to know if he's okay.
I don't want him hurd of nothing.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
But we have less than three minutes. Okay. By the way,
you're writed to come back any time. You want to
come back and make an announcement or you want to
come back and tell more of the story. You have
an open invitation. What I want to know from you
right now is what can people do? The biggest thing
I think is to support the move nine of the
remaining eight living members that are in prison. What can
we do? What can we do?
Speaker 3 (47:38):
What people can do is contact us, because it would
take me more than the time I have to tell people.
But as you said, go to our website on amove
dot com or call me at two one five three
eight six one one six five that's my home number, or.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Email me.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
On a neon l l j A for Long Live
John Africa at gmail dot com. Now I'm not at
home now, I'm out in the Bay Area of California. Uh,
but I'll be back home Monday. So Paul and leaves
a message and away from me to contact you, email
(48:25):
me or you know there.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
I'm given up on my blog, the Opperman Report, But
the email I have is Honor Move l j A
at aol dot com. Do you want that one on there?
Or no? No, it's l l j A l l
j A, but at aol dot com not Gmail.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Okay, I'll check that to the one I checked mostly though,
is Gmail. But either one I look at the AO
L emails as well.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Okay, great, so on a move dot com Ramona Africa,
uh bless you from Okay, and thank you for coming
on the show. I really appreciate it. Anytime you want
to come back, the.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Minister of Communication for the organization, So this is what
I do.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Thank you very much. And you just have so much
warmth and loving your heart. I just I love you,
love not any hey, hey, you have an open invitation
to come back. I want to get you. I want
you to have to come back and tell us some
more of the story because anytime.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Ramona asks right.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
After the mo and longer revolution ay Man long of.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
The revolution and revolutionary H know the statement like Amona
after though, well we need to hear from more in news.
Speaker 4 (49:42):
On our show like this need work.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
I'm going I gotta hang up, okay, but I'm gonna
afoid you're doing this, Okay. Thank you as
Okay, welcome to the Opperman Report. I'm your host, private
investigator at Opperman and you can find us here every
Friday night, five pm Pacific Standard Time on Revolution Radio,
Freedomslips dot Com Studio. A tonight, we have a really
big guest. This is someone who I was really hoping
to get for a while, and it's kind of fitting
(00:22):
that we would have her on tonight with all this stuff.
Everyone's heard about the Waco and Ruby Ridge and everybody's
all up in arms about this Bundee Ranch situation. But
this is really one of the first families in America
that were attacked by the police in their home and
bombed and a bomb was dropped on them and then
(00:44):
they were set fire to and I believe either five
or six children were died in this bombing, this police
bombing on this innocent family, and sixty homes of totally
unin off people and the friends and neighbors of this
group were also burned out of their homes in Philadelphia
(01:06):
in the mid eighties. And I've always wanted to bring
this story to the public because so many people don't
know about it. And I want to thank our producer,
Keith Davis, who was in touch with the Ramona Africa,
who is now the lone surviving member of that bombing
in Philadelphia back in the eighties. Ramona, are you there.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'm here on the move, Amen.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Ramona, thank you so much for coming. Can you tell
us describe what MOVE is, what kind of organization it is,
what kind of a group it is?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Okay, Move is a revolutionary organization founded by John Africa.
When I say revolutionary organization, what makes us revolutionary is
that we have one common belief, one very simple belief,
and that is in life. Our belief is in the
(02:06):
sanctity the all importance of life, without categorizing whether it's
animal life, human life, plant life, the water that we
cannot exist without, the air we cannot exist without, you know,
the anything life, the earth that fees us that we
can't exist without.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
You know.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
This is what John Africa taught MOVES people is road priority.
Nothing is more important than life.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Or the force which we call.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Mother Nature, our mama, our mother that coordinates all of life.
Because we have that one simple degreief, the government system
that we have been at war with ever since moved
(03:02):
because those that run the system and believe in this
system don't care about life. They have betrayed and bothered
the life in all of us and around all of
us for money, for money. They have compromised life for money.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
They have compromised the air for air pollution, they have
compromised the water for water pollution. They have compromised the
earth that feeds us, you know, for toxic waste.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
In the earth.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
And when move not only speaks about these things and
always spoke about these things and confronted those that are
pushing these things, I'm talking about officials, political officials, also
those behind them, these industrialists, you know, that don't care
(04:04):
about the air, the water, or animals or anything that's
a lot. Their god is a dollar bill and they
don't care what they have to do to keep that
money flowing. When we would confront them, you know, initially,
not a lot of attention was paid to Move Back
(04:25):
in the very early seventies when we first surfaced in Philadelphia.
But as our message got out and our first demonstrations
were active Zoo demonstrating against the abuse and imprisonment and
enslavement of animals, innocent animals. When this government locks people up,
(04:51):
gives them life sentences in prison, they say it's because
the person committed a crime was wrong. Well, what crime
did the lion commit to be sentenced to life in
prison rather than being able to run free, you know
in the jungles of Africa where they're supposed to be
(05:14):
you know, what about birds that had to spend their
life in a cage? What crime did they commit? You know?
And we would put out information about these things. We
would demonstrate the unsafe boarding homes for the elderly, where
elderly people had their social Security checks basically stolen by
(05:35):
the people that run these homes, where the homes were
virtually nothing but fire tracks, where they were emotionally and
physically mistreated.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Abuse.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
We had demonstrations at the school board, you know, behind
what they were teaching, you know, our children, and also
the lack of protectiveness forward the children, I mean children
were being sexually abused by counselors, teachers, being physically abused
(06:12):
you know in schools. And we spoke out on all
these things and the government start getting real nervous.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
The group was basically started by John Africa absolutely and
then he had how did he get a group together?
Like he just started out with a couple of friends
or his wife, his family, like, how did he gather
people around him to follow his vision?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
What happened is John Africa had a friend who was
a professor at Community College of Philadelphia, and he would
talk to his friend, his name was Donald Glassie, and
he would have Donald right down, you know, the points
(06:58):
and the principles that John Africa was explaining to him,
and they would later be typed up. And what happened
was Donald Glassy started incorporating some of these teachings, this
belief into classes at Community College. And then John Africa
(07:21):
invited some of Donald Glassy's students to his home to
talk about and discuss, you know, these teachings, and they
would be giving a copy, you know, a section of
information that John Africa had Donald Glassy, you know, ragged down,
(07:45):
and Donald Glassy typed it up and was distributed to
these students, and then they would come to study sessions.
They would call and they would be talked about and
John Africa would explain in more detail, you know, what
exactly he was talking about from. You know a lot
(08:09):
of people asked that question and I cannot answer it.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
For certain except to say.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
That it did not come from academia. John Africa was
said to be illiterate according to consistent standards. He could
not really read or write. He rejected schooling. You know,
he was recorded, I believe, as going to school up
(08:39):
until about the third grade, I think something like that,
but he resisted it even at that point and then
just would not go back. So he was like illiterate
according to system standards. So he didn't get it from academia.
He was just always in touch the life and vehemently
(09:03):
opposed to anything that goes against life, meaning anything that
exploits in prisons or enslaves, that pollutes or poisons, or
names or kills anything that's a life. He's just always
(09:23):
been opposed to that and always very reverent and protective
of anything that's a live. And you know, I guess
as he got older he was able to, you know,
explain it more and speak on it more. But other
than that, I cannot explain to you how John Africa
(09:45):
got this understanding.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Now, is he alive today or is he in prison
or was he a murdered by the police the bombing
he died in the second bombing.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Okay, yeah, well there was only one bombing.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Second, the second police attack, right, right, but.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
You know that's true. Move is, it's what we believe in.
And for those that run this system to attack us
the way they did and to feel so threatened by us,
and to really.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Hate us the way they do, because.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I mean, you have to really hate somebody to bomb
them and burn them alive, including babies, you have to
hate them. The question is why what about our belief
is so threatening? It's threatening because those running this system
(10:49):
do not care about or believe in life. The force
starts keeping them alive. They don't believe in it, and
they're not want to have anybody, you know, exposing them
and influencing people to put poority on life, on what's important,
(11:12):
So they want to get rid of us. And initially
their so called strategy was to offer us money in
their times, funding for you know, different projects we might
want to do and jobs, you know, positions in this system.
(11:37):
But MOVE made it clear that we cannot be bought
off or bribed or co opted to compromise what we
know is right, compromise life for a job.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
A dollar bill, you know, a salary.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
And when they saw that they couldn't buy us off
or co opt us, that is when the brutality and
attempted and I say attempted intimidation began because move will
not never was intimidated, but they tried. They tried. When
(12:15):
move people would set up a peaceful, peaceful administration at
some institution of this system, whether it was the zoo,
whether it was the border of education, whether it was
a conference held by Dow Chemical or do pot Chemicals,
you know, institutions that toison the environment. What would happen
(12:41):
is when we would set up, cops would come out
there and they would tell us that we could not demonstrate.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
To cease and desist.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
To pack up and go home and move. Wouldn't just
you know, go along with that. We questioned them, We said,
what are you talking about? We can't have a peaceful demonstration.
You know, isn't this America. Will you tell the world
that in America all these freedoms exist. Freedom of speech,
(13:14):
freedom you know, to protests and demonstrate, freedom of the press,
freedom of religion, all these freedoms. What does the Declaration
of Independence or the Constitution say accept move you know,
what are you talking about? That's when the beatings would start.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Movement would be beat.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
By cops into unconsciousness and to broken lens.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
You know, how many members did you have at that time?
I'm sorry, how many members did you have at that
time when you were at the first house you were
doing these demonstrations and stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Well, at the very beginning of MOVE, I think there
was maybe close to one hundred members. But as the
beatings started and the attempted intimidation by this system, there
were those who, you know, just honestly said I can't
(14:14):
do it, you know, I can't do it. And some
said that and left and were supporters who would do
whatever they felt like they could do. Some others were
more insecure and more egotistical, and rather than be honest
(14:37):
with themselves, they tried to find fault with MOVED, with
MOVE beliefs instead of with the system that was beating
them and trying to attimidate them. Those people left and
were not supporters, and you know, they just left and
never came back. Some of them even tried to just
(15:00):
same moves, I guess, to make themselves feel better about
themselves and not look at themselves as not being able to,
you know, stand up for what is right.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Sure, that's yeah. Around that time, in the mid seventies,
there was a lot of FBI cointel, pro and infiltration
undercover cops in movements and different revolution groups. Did you
guys experience that as well?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (15:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
The federal government tried to frame move people up, including
John Africa and several you know other move members on
federal charges of weapons charges, bombing terrorists, you know, international
(15:48):
terrorism charges, conspiracy and in fact, they wanted to arrest
John Africa back in like nineteen seventy seven, I believe
it was on these charges, but they couldn't find John Africa.
And in nineteen eighty one, on May thirteenth of nineteen
(16:12):
eighty one, no less, they arrested John Africa and other
move people up in Rochester, New York. And in nineteen
eighty one, John.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Africa went on trial with my brother.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Mo Africa in fedral court for two months.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
It was a two month trial.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
And he had exactly those charges on him and John
Africa could have gotten i mean, the rest of his
life in prison, you know, if he had been found guilty.
John Africa went into court represented himself. This is a
man that is illiterate, has no political or financial influence
(17:00):
about a black man with long knotty air dreadlocks coming
into federal court with a sweatshirt, jeans, and boots old
boots on, never made an opening statement, never cross examined
any other prosecution witnesses, never raised one objection, slept through
(17:25):
most of the trial where there were two prosecutors bringing
in these bags of black powder that they said was
explosives belonging to John Africa. I mean they did everything
to try to get John Africa convicted of all of
these charges. I mean they wanted him back. John Africa
(17:48):
made a closing statement at that trial bot himself and
our brother North Africa acquitted of every single charge. Now
that is unprecedented by a rich white man, let alone
our money poor revolutionary black man. But you don't hear
(18:12):
about that.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
No, I had never heard about that. I had never
heard about that part of the story. And I actually
I met you guys some of the move members came
down to yippie headquarters in the I guess it was
the late seventies or early eighties and wrote, yeah, we
wrote a story about you in Overthrown newspaper. And I
had not even I was familiar with that part of
the story. That's amazing, Oh.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Yeah, oh yeah. And that is why Monia Abu Jamal.
If people are familiar with him, he's a journalist that
was on death row for like thirty years and we
finally were successful in getting him off of death row
and we're still working for him anyway. When Moonia went
(18:59):
to court State court, he was accused wrongly of killing
a police officer and when he got ready to go
to trial, he asked for John Africa.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
This was in I.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Guess he started going to trial in January of eighty
two because the incident happened in December of eighty one.
And Momia asked for John Africa not to be his
lawyer because he knew that the courts would never, you know,
go for that day say he's not a member of
the bar. He gave represent uroever, but Momia wanted John
(19:37):
Africa to just be at the table with him to
count for him to advise him and that's perfectly acceptable.
But the courts would not do it. And that's what
they tried to say, Well, he's not a member of
the bar, he's not a lawyer, and Monia was like, well, shoot,
I can't.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Tell he with the federal government doing up.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
But that's why Momia wanted him. He knew what he
was looking at. He saw what John Africa did in
federal court, you know. But yeah, I mean, look, John
Africa is teaching in life being the priority, you know,
being what we need to be respectful of and protective
(20:25):
us for our own sake. Nobody can dispute that. Nobody
can dispute that, because I defy anybody to name me
anything that's more important than life and the force that
coordinates life. What is more important than that money, jewels
(20:51):
and gems, a fashionable car, are being home? You know what?
What is more important than that?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Gold?
Speaker 3 (21:02):
You know, gold is light. But for people that want
to separate that and say yeah, I would want gold, Yeah, Well,
have an asthma attack or a heart attack, and see
if you scream for a tank.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Full of gold or a tank full of air.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
You know, amen, I hear you.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
If it comes comes very clear at that point, what's important?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
What's it's a great attic in it. Half. Well, we're
down to the last five minutes of this portion of
the show, So what do you want to get into
the next Before the break?
Speaker 3 (21:45):
I would like to talk just a little bit about
August eight of nineteen seventy eight, the first police attack
or MOVE just briefly as a background to the bomby
please do okay, because of Moves, uncomp uncompromising stands for life,
(22:06):
and because the government saw that they could not stop us,
and because we were influencing.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
So many people who heard the quality.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
In the teaching of John Africa and saw the genuine, consistent,
serious example of Moves, you know, in demonstrating our belief.
The government was messed up. You know, they didn't want
us influencing people that way because you know, that would
(22:40):
mean the demise of people believing in their system. So
they manufactured for the call reasons for them to attack us.
They said our home had Housing CO violations, housing code
violations like no screens in the window. We did not
(23:01):
have electricity or gas in our house, so it wasn't
a fire hazard or anything, you know, But they said
our home had Housing GO violations, which is ridiculous because
these people don't care about poor people, revolutionary people predominantly
(23:23):
and I say predominantly black people because there are white
people in MOVE or Spanish speaking people in MOVE. We
are not a black organization anyway. They don't care about
people like us living in a house that has housing
co violations. You can't get the Department of License and
(23:45):
Inspection to make landlords make necessary repairs in homes that
they lease the people and collect money every monthly. People
and the rules are leaking the furner to heating, furnaces
go out in the winter, the water you know, tank breaks,
(24:07):
and I mean all kinds of things happen, but you
can't get this government agency known as the Department of
License and Inspection to do anything about it. But they
care so much about moved people living in a home
that doesn't have screens in a window, you know, So
(24:28):
they used that as an excuse to say they wanted
us out of our home, wanted us to vacate our
home by August first.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
And some move people did go on to other activities
in Richmond, Virginia, in upstate New York, you know, but
other move people stayed in move headquarters. So a judge
named g. Fred de Bona, a civil judge.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Warrant for every move person that he knew of. Even
though he knew that some move people were not in
that house had went on to other coordinated activities, didn't matter.
They issued warrant for every move person that they thought
they knew of and that's what they used as an
(25:21):
excuse to attack our home or August eighth of nineteen
seventy eight. Now, since when.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
You're gonna ask a question though they've been able to
get a rest warrant before an eviction or or rest
warrant based on an eviction, Well they did.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
They said that movie boy had committed a crime by
not vacating the premises.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Eating. Yeah I'm here. Yeah, I'm just in shock.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
But you can see that it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
It's nothing but an excuse.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
And I'm not saying it's illegal, because legality is whatever
they say it is, doesn't matter, you know, but yes,
that is what they need.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
Actually, the warrant that they came out there with was
actually a rule to show cause why move people should
not be held in a contemptive court for not vacating
supremacist and.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
They shout up a huge force with a whole squad
of police officers. Uh oh, we got a break coming up.
We're with Amona Africa, a surviving member of a police
attack on a family a group quote Move in the
nineteen eighties. Her website is on a move dot Com,
on a move dot Com and She's also here to
(26:47):
promoting bring awareness to a movie about this story that
came out. It's out there right now. It's called Let
the Fire Burn dot Com. We'll be right back after
this break with Ramona Africa, a beautiful woman. You can
to hear the heart on this woman when she talks
about life and UH and freedom and revolution and uh.
This is the kind of thing that they want to
(27:08):
stifle in us. And when they can't silence us and
they can't decie for them, which is what they do,
they attack us and they trying to prison us and
four of us alost and even a flight again and
get curious about the plan out there. Welcome back to
the Opera Room Report. I'm your host, Private Investigator at
(27:29):
Opperman every Friday night, five pm. Freedom Slips dot Com
on Studio a h. We got coming up in the
in the upcoming weeks. We're gonna have an author of
the Book of matt which is the true story of
the Matthew Shepard case. And there's a lot of stuff
in that case that I know about. This is gonna
be coming out on that show. We're gonna have Cindy
Sheehan who's gonna be running for governor. And we also
have we're gonna be doing a show about the Jim
(27:50):
Jones and Jonestown Guyana. But tonight we have a true
revolutionary hero in this country, someone who's who fought the
good fight and came under attack and still standing. Right now,
we have Ramona Africa, representative of the group Moved. Her
website is on a move dot com and please visit
that website and book market because there's nine members of
(28:13):
the Move family from this first attack, this first unprovoked
police attack way back in the seventies that are still
in prison to this day. Now you got people, well,
I don't go on a rant, but there's also a
website called letthfireburn dot com which is Ramona's a movie
about the uh.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
My movie, let's not get a movie about.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
We'll get you in a movie, Ramona, don't worry, I'll
get you. I'll put you in my movie when they
do a movie about me. But so what people.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Thinking is our movie because you know, we didn't do it.
We don't have a problem with it because the filmmaker
Jason Oster, uh we do not be same move or
anything like that. We feel like the movie is okay,
but could have been better. He interviewed the two extensive
(29:07):
interviews with me, He interviewed other people, you know, involved
in the whole bombing situation, which I assume with some officials,
et cetera. But in the end, he chose not to
use any of that in the film. He just used
archival footage from the commission put together by Wilson Good
(29:30):
after the bombing.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
And other archival footage.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
And you know, we feel like we understand why he
did that because he didn't want really any controversy. He
didn't want to be seen as a move supporter or
anything like that. He felt like he would just use
the archival footage, show people, you know, what was going on,
(29:55):
and love it at that.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
And that's his right.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
I mean, you know, sure, that's just right. We don't
have a problem with that. I'm just saying that's.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
What he did.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
We feel like it could have been a much better
movie if he had used, you know, some of the
interviews that he had done. But look, we tell people
to go see the movie.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah, more people need to know this story, that's a fact,
and more people need to know that there's nine members
of this movement that are still in prison. To this day, Ye.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
A minute, there there are eight move members still in prison,
going on thirty.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Six years now.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
One of my sisters, Merle Africa, died in nineteen ninety
seen money unjust years in prison. We firmly believe that
they did something to her. Talking about a strong, healthy
move woman that ran you know, daily exercise, didn't have
(30:57):
any problems until suddenly she had some kind of stomach
virus or something that she was experiencing. And it wasn't bad,
but you know, she had an upset stomach from kind
of stomach virus and they made her take what they
call it lay in where you're confined to your cell.
(31:18):
You don't go to your job, your prison job. If
you have school classes, you don't go to your classes
or anything like that. They send food trays to yourself
so you don't leave yourself. Merl got one food tray.
They made her take the lay and she didn't want it,
they made her take it. They sent her one tray
(31:40):
and that night she got up to use the bathroom
passed out. It took them a while to get an
ambulance there, even though the ambulance was only like ten
minutes away.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
In the middle of the night, there's no traffic.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
They took her to the hospital and the next thing
we heard had passed away and got all kinds of
like two or three different reasons of her cause of death.
So there is something really wrong with that picture.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
As far as tragic. But Ramona, didn't they put you
in prison as well?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
After our family went on trial in nineteen seventy eight,
you know, for the death of a police officer, which
it was perfectly clear that they could not have killed.
Nine of my family members went on trial for the
death of a count that was killed with one bulley
(32:44):
from one gun. They charged nine of my family members
with it. They went on trial even though right after,
right after they took my family into custody, I'm talking
about within hours, they completely demolished our hope. They demolished
(33:07):
most headquarters. Now that was the scene of the crime.
That was vital evidence. Wow, Since when do officials destroy
evidence in a serious murder trial, particularly where a police
officer is killed.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
And people understand this. This is years prior to the firebombing.
This is a whole different relation, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
This is the root of the bombing. Our unrelenting fight
for the release of our innocent family members who judge
Edwin Dowman one of his illness. Was not a jerry trial,
it was eventual trial. He found all nine of my
family members guilty of murder and sentenced each of them
(33:58):
to thirty or min in them one hundred year maximum sentences.
Then went on a radio talk show program a day
or two after that, after sentencing my family, come on
and when asked a direct question about who killed that cop,
(34:18):
he said, I haven't the faintest idea, but he had
just convicted and sentenced my family. So move waged a
move waged an unrelenting site for our family, you know,
exposing the conspiracy against our family. And when the government
(34:43):
could not shut us up, they decided, well, look, we
can't silence them. You know, jail doesn't stop them, beating
doesn't stop them, we can't bribe them or anything. Well,
we're just going to have to kill them.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
So it may sound far sech to some people, but
others may understand exactly what I'm talking about. It's the
same policy that this government institutes abroad overseas with various
you know, leaders of countries that they want to get
(35:23):
rid of.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
They kill them.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
They kill them, you know, And that's what they did
with move. They worked over a year, well over a year,
coming up with the plan that involved involved the bombing
of our home, and when they felt that they had
(35:47):
a workable plan, that's when they came out there and
bombed our home. They had no reason, no you know, uh,
justifiable reasons to do it. So what they did after
they felt like they had this workable plan, they reached
(36:08):
back two weeks before May thirteen, when cops was all
around the back of our home and our dogs were barking,
and we looked out back and saw all these cops.
Turned on the speaker at our house and let our
neighbors know that cops were all around the back of
(36:28):
our house. We didn't know what they were up to.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
But we don't trust them. We know they're up to
no good, and we.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Were not going to let them bust in our house,
you know, and people not know what was going on.
That was our message.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
We were on the.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Loudspeaker maybe ten minutes. Okay, another cop, a plane clothes cop,
walked up the front steps of our home, knocked on
the door. We went out there, two of us, me
and my sister Juris Africa, who was killed in the bomby,
went out talked to this cop for about an hour.
(37:06):
About an hour we stood out there talking to him.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
He left, he walked away.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
We went back in the house. I mean, nothing happened.
But there May eleventh, you know, a Saturday, when the
cops suck like they were ready to move on us.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
To kill us.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
They went to Judge Lynn Abraham's home and when asked
why they went to her, they said because she was.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
The emergency judge.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
They went and got her to sign warrants.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
For four of us, four of.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
Us, myself and three of my sisters and brothers, charging
us with crimes on April twenty ninth of disorderly, kind.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Of terroristic.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
On nothing, nothing.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
You know.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
The tops stood out there on April twenty ninth talking
to us for over an hour. Would he do that
if he felt terrorized and threatened?
Speaker 2 (38:14):
You know?
Speaker 3 (38:15):
But they didn't have anything else, so they reached back
and picked that out of the hat and went and
got warrants to try to justify their.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Attack on us.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
And they were still pissed off that they failed to
kill move people in nineteen seventy eight because they tried.
That's what it was about. It wasn't about an arrest.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
It was about killing. Moved people off, and they were.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Mad because they failed. So this time when they feel
like they had another chance, they were going for AUGUSTA.
They came out there. Not only with the artillery of
war that they came out there within seventy eight, they
came out there this time in eighty five with a
(39:09):
fifty caliber machine gun and sixty automatic rifle, a sniper
rifle with silences on it.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
I believe there was a fire hose too, right that
they were pointing and trying to knock down parts of
the building.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
War four w toses, fire hoses that pumped out ten
thousand pounds of water pressure per minute. Four hoses, that's
forty thousand pounds of water pressure per minute. And you know,
you can never really have or conceive of just how
(39:43):
much pressure that is. It's horrendous. Think about Bull Connors
in the South.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
In the sixties.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
You know when he had his fire people, firefighters turned
those hoses on demonstrators, how people were knocked off their
seat and how much that was. But anyway, it.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Without the last ten minutes, So get out with you
have to get out, okay, all right.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Basically, you know they came out there to kill They
used all of those means to kill us. And when
the ten thousand seven rounds.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Of bullets didn't kill us and bring.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Us out the house, when the water pressure didn't, when
the tear gas didn't, they dropped a bomb on our home.
They got a state police helicopter with to shut up
your bomb squad in it, and a state policeman as
a helicopter, another state policeman as a co pilot, and
(40:47):
without any warning, I mean, they said nothing, made no
announcements at all, they flew over our home and dropped
that bomb on.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
The roof of our home.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
The fire commissioner admitst openly that he was made aware
that there was a.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Fire on the roof of our house.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
And that that fire, which he termed an incipient fire,
a fire in the beginning stages, could have been extinguished
at that point, but a conscious decision was made to
let that fire burn. And when they did that, it
(41:28):
was clear that they didn't care about anybody in that house.
Because when have you ever heard of firefighters who run
into burning buildings to save people? When have you ever
heard of them making a decision to let a house burn,
let a fire burn. When there are men, women, babies,
(41:52):
animals in that structure, in that building, it never happens.
But they did that in May teen eighty five because
their aim was to kill, not to arrest. When we realized,
because we were all in the basement, when we realized
(42:12):
that our home was on fire, we immediately tried to
get our children, our animals, and ourselves out of that basement,
you know, out of that house.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
But they were.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
Exactly that's what I was getting ready to said. The
instant they saw us trying to come out, and we
were hollering, we're coming out.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
We're bringing the kids out. We're coming out.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
The kids were hollering, we're coming out. They're bringing us out.
The instant they could see us, they opened fire, shooting
us back into that burning building. At least twice. At
least twice people asked me, well, how did you and
Birdie get out? You know, how did y'all get out?
Speaker 2 (42:59):
We were the close to the door.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
But the thing was your face with a situation where
you're gonna choke on smoke, choked to death and be
burned alive or possibly be shot to death. So we
were trying to get out of that building, and miraculously,
and I don't use that word loosely, we you know,
(43:24):
weren't shot. We made it out and we weren't shot.
We were burned severely, both of us, but we were
not shot to death.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
But people that were still.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
In the house coming out behind us. The medical examiner
reported that they not only were burned alive, but they
had bullet fragments in them, bullet fragments from where the
cops shot at them.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
But then they weren't satisfied with that. They arrested you
and threw you in prison for how many years? Nine years?
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Seven years.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
There was a charge to me with everything that they did,
but they had to throw out all of the charges
listed in the warrants that they came out there with.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Because they were bogus.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
There was, you know, no validity to them. So they
threw out all the charges that they claimed they came
out there to deal with and charged me with everything
that they did on May twelfth and thirteenth, because they
came out there on Mother's.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Day, Sunday, May twelfth, It ended on May.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Thirteenth, but they came out there on Mother's Day. Anyway,
I was found guilty of one charge riot.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Riot.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
I'm in my own house where we're minding our business
and we're surrounded by.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Cops who attack us, but.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
We riot to I mean, I would say unbelievable, but
it's very believable.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Because you live through it. You live through it. But
to me, I'm sitting here in shock, and I know
this story, and I can't believe that people hearing this
story right now are not outrage and why this Yeah,
this is a national tragedy, this story. How many children
were killed in the ages of those children that were
murdered in that building.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Five children and six adults. I don't know the age
because we don't really deal with that, you know, but
they were very young children, very young. I mean, they
weren't even teenagers, you know, they were young children.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Now, when when Bertie the young man, young boy Bertie,
when he got out, did he live a happy life?
Have always his lifelike? I know, he just died recently too,
in another tragic circumstances. Too young.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
But they took Bertie for move and they dug up
his father, biological father out of the woodworks because Bertie's
mother was killed in the bombing, and his mother Ronda,
and his father biological father and Dina had been separated,
(46:16):
divorced since Bertie was an infant, and then Ronda came
to move with Bertie when he was a baby, and
and Dino had nothing to bring with thirty from that
point on. But they dug him out of the Woodwork,
and you know, pushed him to get custody of Bertie
(46:38):
because they were not going to allow him back with
move that they died and go to hell before they
did that. So they dug him out bird and what
And Dino wood saw in Bertie his dollar signs. He
obviously didn't care about the boy. You know, he had
no contact with him, egan up to right before May thirteen,
(47:02):
when the media was hyping.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Things up a bit.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
He didn't come to O Saint Avenue and say, you know,
I know my son is in there, or is my
son in there? I want to know if he's okay.
I don't want him hurd of nothing.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
But we have less than three minutes. Okay. By the way,
you're writed to come back any time. You want to
come back and make an announcement or you want to
come back and tell more of the story. You have
an open invitation. What I want to know from you
right now is what can people do? The biggest thing
I think is to support the move nine of the
remaining eight living members that are in prison. What can
we do? What can we do?
Speaker 3 (47:38):
What people can do is contact us, because it would
take me more than the time I have to tell people.
But as you said, go to our website on amove
dot com or call me at two one five three
eight six one one six five that's my home number, or.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Email me.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
On a neon l l j A for Long Live
John Africa at gmail dot com. Now I'm not at
home now, I'm out in the Bay Area of California. Uh,
but I'll be back home Monday. So Paul and leaves
a message and away from me to contact you, email
(48:25):
me or you know there.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
I'm given up on my blog, the Opperman Report, But
the email I have is Honor Move l j A
at aol dot com. Do you want that one on there?
Or no? No, it's l l j A l l
j A, but at aol dot com not Gmail.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Okay, I'll check that to the one I checked mostly though,
is Gmail. But either one I look at the AO
L emails as well.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Okay, great, so on a move dot com Ramona Africa,
uh bless you from Okay, and thank you for coming
on the show. I really appreciate it. Anytime you want
to come back, the.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Minister of Communication for the organization, So this is what
I do.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Thank you very much. And you just have so much
warmth and loving your heart. I just I love you,
love not any hey, hey, you have an open invitation
to come back. I want to get you. I want
you to have to come back and tell us some
more of the story because anytime.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Ramona asks right.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
After the mo and longer revolution ay Man long of.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
The revolution and revolutionary H know the statement like Amona
after though, well we need to hear from more in news.
Speaker 4 (49:42):
On our show like this need work.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
I'm going I gotta hang up, okay, but I'm gonna
afoid you're doing this, Okay. Thank you as
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