The Rise of Bitcoin DeFi & RWA🟠Orobit CEO INTERVIEW

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today, let's dive into bitcoin and DeFi how all of
this could work together. I think you guys are gonna
love it. My name is Paul Beryl. Welcome back in.
We're going to have one of our sponsors joining us
today and it's going to be breaking down kind of
the future of where bitcoin and DeFi could intersect. And
this is going to be Orbit. You guys may have
heard about this project out there. I wanted to bring
in their CEO and their co founder, Paul Dando. Welcome

(00:21):
into the show. Paul. How are you.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey, Paul, Thanks so much. Good. Thanks, it's good to
be a thanks.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Where are you guys, Yeah, where are you guys based where?
It looks like you're nighttime there?

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Yeah, we're Luxember again CI and I'm currently based here
in Cape Ton, South Africa.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Beautiful, beautiful, Good Jeff. Let's get into a little bit
about Orbit in general. Give us a breakdown for our
audience to kind of just understand what you guys are
trying to do.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yeah, you know, so, we're a team of really passionate
Bitcoin Maxi's a team that I'm really looking to build
on top of bitcoin, push bitcoin forward. If you take
a look at kind of what the landscape has been
emerging into over the last few years. You've you've had
a huge breakthrough in terms of institutional adoption, specifically of bitcoin.

(01:11):
It's kind of broken into the mainstream when it comes
to traditional finance and retail adoption and even just payments
day to day payments these days. But you're currently sitting
with around eight hundred million dollars worth a bitcoin that's
completely stagnant. You know, no one's spending their bitcoin, and
rightly so, they're using it as a store of value.
But we believe there's a lot of you know, untapped

(01:33):
utility that has a lot of potential there and essentially
stagnant bitcoin represents, you know, not only a threat to
bitcoin itself as you know, spending bitcoin and these fees
incentivize the network, but it represents a disconnect between you know,
those who are building bitcoin and those who are buying
it and not using it. So what our mission is
is to essentially unlock this utility and bring a layer

(01:55):
of tokenization and smart contract utility that will bridge that
gap and understanding in what solutions and traditional finance you know,
users are looking for and what bitcoin is today.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
So real time secure payments, fraction of the costs, just
some of the things that you guys are featuring there
on your website. XRB, talk to me a little bit
about that its role in the whole ecosystem, what you're doing.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yeah, absolutely so, SEL, which is our decentralized tokenization network,
is a gasless network. There aren't any gas fees on
our decentralized network, as all you need to do is
spend some bitcoin. But as you know, anyone that's starting
a layer on or decentralized network can attest to traction
and friction are really really two major blockers for adoption

(02:44):
and growth. So the x ORB token is more an
incentivization mechanism. We're using it to incentivize people to decentralize
the network, spin up validators, reward validators for the work
they're putting in the data, the storing.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
And really bridge this in.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
It's a bit of a different approach to where we're
punishing bad actors. We're more along the lines of incentivizing
people to come in and take part and join the network.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
On top of this, we've got allocations for foundation.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
And ecosystem growth, so we're allocating grants to exciting projects
that are looking to bring you know, their tech and
their projects onto bitcoin, tap into you know, the institutional
network that we're that we're bringing on chain, and you know,
really just baking them into you know, adopting the Orbit platform,
our products that we're developing, as well as you know,

(03:30):
the tokenization infrastructure that we're building on top of bitcoin,
and this.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Kind of ties into go ahead, go ahead, Yeah, I know.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
So part of you know, what makes us special is
that we're able to scale with bitcoin. So part of
the idea and the ethos behind building on top of
bitcoin is that you're not competing with it. We're tapping into,
you know, an existing decentralized stable infrastructure that a has
on a base layer the best security in the world,
and I'm a scaled ability layer. When you start talking

(04:01):
about the lighting network, you're transacting faster and cheaper than
Visa and master Card can or any layer one.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
For that matter.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
All Right, So okay, so first of all, explain to
me a little bit about the difference between what you
guys are doing and other adjacent layers like a STAX
or something of that nature. How do you guys differentiate
from that.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, so when you talk about stacks and adjacent layers
and roll ups and layer tos. A lot of them
are developing their own blockchain, and while we are a
decentralized network, we feel, you know, it's a bit redundant
to have thousands of blockchains that are all trying to
achieve the same thing when Bitcoin itself is you know,
a completely stable, decentralized infrastructure that hasn't had any downtime

(04:49):
with the past decade and half and has sustained and
defended against multiple attack vectors. So where this really comes
in is that, you know, we don't we realize that
by utilizing bitcoin for finality and consensus, which are essentially
the two things that blockchains are best at, you can
forego a lot of the tradeoffs that a blockchain has

(05:10):
to make. Blockchains in essence need to be pretty slow,
and they need to be quite quite expensive in order
to protect themselves against a lot of attack vectors. Anyone
that's speeding up their blockchain or introducing, you know, or
fixing any of these problems, or introducing other attack vectors,
or making tradeoffs that ultimately affect security and finality. If

(05:32):
you think about, you know, your faster layer one blockchains
you're starting to dive really into heavy centralization or staking
methodologies which require you know, large centralization control of funds
on that native token. So in that specifically, you know,

(05:52):
you're looking at a side chain that have their own
native token that process their own blocks. You could take
a look at other competitors who building roll ups like
ce Tria, but we're more along the lines and in
competition with guys like tat food Assets and RGB. We
share our ethos of client site validation and off chain computation,

(06:12):
this idea that like you know, we don't need to
reinvent the wheel. We should be using the best the
best in terms of decentralization and existing infrastructure and utilizing
that to our advantage.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Okay, so we've seen wrap bitcoin continue to grow if
you look at just the market cap right here. Why
not Why is wrap bitcoin not good enough, you know,
in terms of how this ecosystem could benefit bitcoin, especially
utilizing tools like wrap bitcoin.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
Yeah, so rap bitcoin is an interesting concept, but anytime
you're wrapping a currency, you're wrapping a token, you're relying
on the issuing entity or whatever centralized infrastructure is facilitating
the actual wrapping or custody of that bitcoin, right. So
what we're building is a decentralized methodology for companies and
projects to bring their tokens and smart contracts onto bitcoin, not.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
The other way around.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
So we want to move away from another idea that
we need to be reliant on centralized institutions to scale
our layer ones, and we want to be reliant or
move away from being reliant on other entities custarding assets
so that we can scale bitcoin, so that we can
bring themse onto bitcoin, so that we can get people
spending their bitcoin and bringing a lot of utility to

(07:30):
ultimately you know what is the best and hardest money.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Well, I love the fact that you're saying spending your bitcoin,
because a lot of people would say, never spend your bitcoin.
You look at some of the you look at some
of the things that are happening out there on the
institutional side. This was news this morning on JP Morgan.
They're going a little bit deeper into the blockchain, obviously
with a partnership with Coinbases based network is using the

(07:55):
Lightning network an uphill battle now, I mean we've we've
talked to Lightning developers over the years, you know, I've
looked at a lot. I think of some of the
best out there. If you look at you know, where
lightning has come from to where they are today. Has
there been any major change that would say lightning is
the future here?

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
So I think a big issue with lightning adoption and
development has always been the ux. It's always been very
disconnected and difficult for people to understand, you know, how
to get their bitcoing into lightning and how to start
closing and managing the channels. So I think a lot
of work has been done over the last few years
in terms of developing around that user experience. A big

(08:40):
part of that would be institutional adoption, where you know,
you've got large institutions facilitating channel provision or liquidity provision
and channel management on behalf of the users. So we're
actually building a lot of lightning infrastructure because orbit or
sel actually facilitates the funding of lightning network channels with
our tokens. And what we've come to see is that

(09:01):
there's a lot of work that needs to be done
or that has to be done on the kind of
the project and the product side of things when it
comes to introducing lightning to traditional users, but in terms
of future proofing technology. Lightning offers faster speeds than Base
does and cheaper fees surprisingly as well as probably the
most unmatched privacy in terms of transacting. So really the

(09:24):
key feature has been ux development over the past few
years and we're already seeing it. You know, you've got
roughly just shy of five thousand but in Lightning channels globally,
and that's being provided by the likes of coin base
themselves and Finance, and you've got around thirteen thousand modes
shy from an all time high fifteen thousand seventeen thousand.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
So you know, the infrastructure.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
Is there, and it is kind of the best and
best in terms of privacy and security when it comes
to transacting at a high pace, and I feel, we
really feel strongly that in the long term, you know,
it's the more future proof technology over over things like
roll ups on top of the Theoreum.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Okay, with that being said, what about liquidity, Because I
was looking at just some of the stable coins and
protocols right now with Bitcoin, Lightning is there, I mean,
because this is going to be that's pretty much the
lifeblood of any you know, any crypto project out there
obviously within the market is liquidity. How do you see
that changing within the Lightning network as well?

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah? Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
I Mean the big kind of springboard for any network
in terms of utility is you know, the incoming of
a stable coin or a lodge provider like Tether. However,
most stable coins and bitcoin these days have been wrapped
or pegged tokens and there just hasn't been enough utility
behind the projects or enough of a noise or adoption

(10:45):
to really bring any traction.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
However, that's changing.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
We were in Singapore now Token twenty forty nine and
a big story coming up was what bitcoin DeFi is
going to be doing to the industry. Tether have expressed
bringing USDT onto Lightning and onto Bitcoin and gener and
what we're going to see there is you know, people
being able to frontload Lightning channels with Bitcoin, especially from
an institutional perspective, and mirror this kind of liquidity provision

(11:10):
in terms of the tokenization on either side of channels
and having you know, untapped liquidity to be routing transactions
through the network and taking fees or really control controlling
how that flow works.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Do you think that bitcoin devs are going to be
enticed to build on you know, a DeFi infrastructure to
kind of get going on this. What are your what
are your thoughts there?

Speaker 2 (11:34):
I think that's that's.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
That's a conversation we can have for for an hour alone.
I mean, if anything, the recent debate between the Bitcoin
core team and the new implementation lots has been very
telling for this. The truth or the fact of the
matter is that meta protocols or Bitcoin DeFi is coming.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
It is here.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
So there are a lot of players in the space,
and from what we're seeing in terms of the reception
from the Bitcoin in Core team is that they see
it as an inevitability and an ultimate you know net
positive for bitcoin itself. So, you know, real bitcoin max
is who understand the tech, understand that adoption and use
is good.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
For Bitcoin at the end of the day.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
Soshi's original vision included operaturn, especially for the likes of
you know, hashed or signed transactional data that's happening on
separate networks. So in terms of you know, the end
golf Bitcoin, anyone who's been doing research and has been
paying attention in the space can see that, you know,
it's inevitable and it's going to be a good thing,

(12:36):
wrong term, So.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
You feel like this could be a breakthrough then. I mean,
based on what you're telling me, this could literally be
a breakthrough at least within the core development teams around
bitcoin as a whole going in this direction. How far
along is it do you think?

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Yeah, I mean, I personally believe it's going to be
the next big wave in Web three development and adoption.
Hole You've got, on the one hand, a passionate, passionate
community of people who believe in nothing else other than bitcoin,
and bringing more ways for them to use their bitcoin,
spend their bitcoin, and participate in the network is.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Going to be a huge driver.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
And on the other hand, you've got you know, over
six and a half percent of the total bitcoin supply
in flowing into US ETFs alone this year. You're going
to see a lot of institutional attraction, especially when it
comes to you know, secure custody of digital assets as
a whole. Totalization of assets is around the corner. It's

(13:34):
been coming from quite some time. We haven't seen it
really loonto into its final form, and personally, bitcoin is
going to be the layer that kind of brings it.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Over the line.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, well, you look at that and some of the
other scenarios I think that play out within this is
And this was kind of interesting to me when I
looked at your quantum resistant wallet. First of all, I
think quantum in general still a little bit of an
an outlier in terms of possibility. Explain to me what
you guys are trying to do with this.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, so we're using patented quantum resistant methodologies and techniques.
So although it's not built into the wallet at the moment,
it's coming in Q on twenty twenty six. And the
idea is that, obviously, from an institutional perspective, safeguarding custody
of not any bitcoin, but sel assets as a whole
is incredibly Quantum resistant technology is a topic and amongst

(14:32):
national security agencies and banks, and there's no reason that
you know, your larger financial institutions wouldn't be just as
interested in these kind of techniques safeguarding their assets. So
what we're trying to introduce is full quantum resistant protection
as much as possible from an end to end perspective
when it comes to interacting with the blockchain, people really

(14:52):
underestimate the importance of sourcing truly random entropy when it
comes to generating your private especially from self custody perspective,
and to be honest, you know, half going half effort
when it comes to self custodying your crypto assets or
your digital assets is almost worse than custoding with the

(15:14):
third party provider. So what we're trying to provide is
is you know, the technology, the know how, and the
ease of use when it comes to ensuring that that
users are safeguarding their assets, safeguarding their transactions and the
way they're interact with the blockchain in the most effective
and easy to understand where.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
Well listen if that, if this becomes reality, I think
institutional grade capital is going to be looking for solutions
exactly to this point that would be quantum resistant. But
even more importantly is if you look at the attack
vectors now with AI playing into this, you've got a
lot of potential, you know, loopholes, it could be worked
in and around a lot of this major capital shifting

(15:52):
over to what we're seeing already coming from the institutional space.
So maybe the right timing. I'm looking at your roadmap here,
you've got the MACC listing what is this right here?
The web ID and AI assistant that's coming out in
stage two Q four this year is that out now
in production.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
It should be launching by the end of the month.
The teams have been working really hard on it. It's
essentially a big part of you know, adoption and growth
for an ecosystem is onboarding projects and developers. So web
y d is essentially a web based environment for you
to be developing and building smart contracts and deploying them
straight onto Bitcoin. So it's essentially a platform that allows
people a really easy and intuitive way to build smart

(16:34):
contracts from the ground up.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
And then in terms of an idea or an AI assistant.

Speaker 3 (16:40):
AI tooling is so important and almost expected in products
these days.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
So what we've.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
Built is a really wonderful solution for you to use
our AI system to completely help you, guide, guide you,
and write sel smart contracts, whether you're a complete novice.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah, so the idea is that you could Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Just saying that that would be a big draw for
new developers, I think in being able to kind of
build out the case study of getting developers into a
platform like this. What has been the reception from the
tests that you'd have done so.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Far, Yeah, phenomenal.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
You know, we've spoken to the team at Olgrand, I've
spoken to teams on many different networks and smaller chains,
especially those that write or come in and build their
own languages for smart contract tooling. And the biggest thing
for adoption and growth and ecosystem is that friction for
existing developers, especially on the Ethereum silana, to move over

(17:40):
to a new stack. So essentially what we're trying to
do here is completely remove that that friction and those
pain points that arise.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, other things rolling out strategic partnership announcements. Can you
share any of those now or are these getting ready
to roll out into this year?

Speaker 3 (18:02):
I think I think we can make a you know,
exclusive first annoucement. Okay, we've invested in and partnered with stables.
They're they're going to be our exclusive feared on an
offer M partner for the whole Arebit ecosystem. We're going
to be you know, they're going to be supporting stable coins.
All stable coins are going to be supported by them.

(18:23):
They're going to be globally distributing, and we're going to
be working with them to globally distribute you know, bank
cards so that you'd essentially be able to load cards
and transact with SEL based stable coins and Again, a
huge part of what we're trying to drive is institutional
droption and tokenization of funds. So having this this dedicated

(18:44):
on an off MP partner that's you know, licensing over
one hundred and fifty two different countries will make that
that process incredibly seenless and really.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Kind of solve a narrative or show what we're trying
to do right from a from coin payments perspective.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Yeah, and I think this is something that of course
we've already seen moves by Visa this week, will most
likely send MasterCard last week with Ripple, and what they're
doing over there. Likelihood is the entire financial system is
all moving in this direction, at least at a very
quick pace. You feel like the timing is right for
what you guys are doing at Orbit versus where institutional
capital and Wall Street in general is heading.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
I mean, if you just take a look at the
success of Square and the Bitcoin payments topping off, we
take a look at lightning lectric adoption alone here in
South Africa and South America, we think that on chain,
the move to on chain in terms of payments and
day to day finance is here, and we think that

(19:46):
you know, the likes of Ripple and other more centralized
approaches are going to going to obviously make a big
splash given the name, But in terms of staying power,
I think I said, I feel like a broken requid pit.
Quinn is the name, and I think we're going to
be the partner to drive that over well.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
We're going to be watching very closely, Paul as things
start to develop for you guys, especially as your roadmap
starts to fill out. If you guys want to learn
a little bit more, hit over to orbit dot ai
and check out what they're up to. But thanks for
coming in on the show today.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
We appreciate it, absolutely cool. Thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
It's been good, excellent, perfect. All right, guys, you know
what to do. If you're not already in the diamond circle,
you should get in the way. You can do that.
It's click link down below. It's our own private group.
It's available for you guys, absolutely free. And of course
follow me out there on x Apple Baron. We'll catch
you next time right here on the Paul Baron Show.
Take care,

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