August 21, 2025 • 34 mins
Mark Hiddleson — holistic business strategist, podcast host of The Tao of Pizza, and creator of the Whole Person Paradigm — shares how Taoist wisdom, systems thinking, and real-world leadership can come together to create growth, balance, and fulfillment. He opens up about his journey from baseball fields and boardrooms to spiritual retreats and family life, showing how energy management, emotional intelligence, and conscious leadership can transform not just businesses, but entire lives. With a playful yet profound approach, Mark invites us to see leadership as more than strategy—it’s about living with wholeness, purpose, and connection.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Welcome to the Powerof Authority Spotlight.
I'm your host, Michelle Prince,founder and CEO of Performance
Publishing Group, making a Difference.
One story at a time, we'll beshining the light on successful
founders, entrepreneurs, businessowners, and leaders that are getting
results and making a difference.
We'll talk about how they builttheir businesses are creating
(00:26):
movements and leveraging thepower of authority in their.
Own lives.
Be sure to stick around to theend of the show and we'll reveal
how you can be our next guest.
Let's get started.
Hey everybody, and welcome to the Powerof Authority Spotlight, where we shine
the light on business owners, leaders,founders, people that are telling their
(00:48):
story, they're building businesses, andthey're making a difference along the way.
And our guest today is Mark Delson, whois a holistic business strategist podcast
host of Thet of Pizza, community builderand spiritual explorer with a master's
degree in holistic health education.
He's known for bridging theworlds of personal growth.
And practical performance.
Mark has spent decades integratingtau philosophy, systems
(01:12):
thinking and human developmentprinciples in both his business.
And personal life.
And as the founder of a successfulmaterial handling company, he brings a
grounded real world approach to conceptslike energy management, emotional
intelligence, and conscious leadership.
In the Tower of Pizza book,mark draws from a lifetime a.
Of lessons on baseball fields andboardrooms, spiritual retreats in his
(01:35):
own backyard to invite readers into amore connected, purposeful way of being.
His signature model.
The whole person Paradigm has helpedindividuals and teams unlock their
highest potential by realigning with corevalues and embracing their whole self.
Mark lives in Napa, California withhis wife and children surrounded by
trees, community, and rosemary bushes.
(01:56):
Sounds amazing.
He greets on his morning walks.
He's passionate about coaching,storytelling, and building ecosystems
where people and ideas thrive.
Mark, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
Thank you.,
It's a pleasure to be here.
Thank you for having me.
I, I wish I had some rosemary here.
I can actually kinda smell it.
(02:16):
I love rosemary bushes.
That reminds me of my childhood actually.
My mom always planted and grewrosemary, and I just, I love it.
It makes me happy.
That smell makes me happy.
It's, , it's a funny, , of a lotof the people who've read the book.
There's a story in there about.
That was when I firststarted my master's degree.
I was taking a class in holistic nutritionand the instructor was talking about
(02:39):
making friends with plants on her dailywalk and, , picking up these Rosemary
Riggs, and I was kind of coming, I,I was getting my master's degree in
holistic health instead of an MBA.
Mm-hmm.
So I went in there with kind ofthis regimented and I'm like.
Man, I'm paying a lot of money to havesomebody tell me about walking around the
neighborhood, making friends with plants.
(03:01):
But as she, she passed around alittle sprig of rosemary and let us
smell it and get our senses involved.
And, , it's like, it still gives mechills right now to think of, like, wow.
I'm like, this is worththe money I'm paying.
Because at first I'm thinking, why am Ipaying all this money to talk about this?
, But she went into all the uses.
Rosemary's like a thousand year old.
(03:22):
. Herb and it just grows everywhere.
And in California, Imean, they're everywhere.
And , and it's just thesimplicity of it, right?
It's, it's like you said, you went inthinking it's gonna be more complicated
or, or more structured, but that'sjust life and, and, and so much of
what your message and your passion andeverything that you're doing, you know,
with your book and, and everything else.
(03:43):
It's the simplicity of it all, , which,which is what I love so much.
So Mark, you and I met, gosh,now, it's been about, how long ago
was it when you and I first wereconnected by our dear friend, Dr.
Jeremy Weiss.
Yeah.
Dr.
Jeremy.
And a year and a halfago, probably a year.
Yeah.
Yeah, because I've been telling, well, thejoke, one of my running jokes is that I've
(04:04):
been saying that my book took eight years,and I've been saying that for two years.
So the time is kind of, it'sa elastic, , scenario, but I
think it has been eight months.
So don't, don't trust me on thetiming because everything seems.
I know for six months or three months.
Well, and I'm, so, I know it'sbeen more than six months.
(04:24):
Right.
Well, all I know is I'm so glad thatwe were connected because you do,
you have such a powerful message, andI do wanna talk about you and your
book and the Tower of Pizza and allof that that goes along with that.
But if you wouldn't mind, foreverybody listening, just give us
a little background of, of what youdo, how you got started, and, and
how you even came to the idea ofwanting to talk about pizza in a book.
(04:50):
That's a, that's a lot.
So I'll start with, , you know, my goalwhen I was a, I was a really young man,
like probably 12, 13 years old, was tobe a professional baseball player and,
. I got really serious, probablytoo serious for a 13-year-old or
12-year-old to be, but I was justreally determined to train and I looked
at like, there's things you can doto get better, your body, your mind,
and , going to workshops and retreats.
(05:13):
And I was injured in my senior year.
Like I thought, you know, Iwas six foot two, 200 pounds.
Like it was exactly the modelof what somebody wanted.
So I'm like, I'm justgonna automatically be pro.
It's, , it's not that easy I found, andI was a little naive, but I got hurt.
And when I got hurt, I thought, , I'mjust gonna use the same principles and
(05:34):
everything that I applied to trainingand baseball and, and everything and
using my mind and body in business.
And I thought I can have a similar levelof success by using the same principles.
And, , that led me on apath to, , go to Sac State.
And in those days.
The career center was a bunchof three ring binders, Uhhuh.
So I spent probably a monthin the, in the career center,
(05:56):
just flipping through binders.
And one of my top reasons forfinding a, a career was how
much money I was gonna make.
I kind laughed.
Didn't we all do that at,at, at that stage of life?
And it just so happened that the materialhandling industry, there was a, an
ad and it was, . You know, they weremaking about the same as, and I had a
(06:17):
little bit of background in engineering.
I ended up getting my degree in economics,, and I've got a lot of experience in sales.
So I was thinking, how do I use all ofthese engineering, economic sales and
material handling just popped up as thisindustry that was kind of construction.
There were sales involved, it'sengineering, and , I just started
doing research about that industry.
Actually found the company.
(06:39):
, I noticed by doing my homework that a lotof people wanted to use the equipment.
Mm.
And it was kind of a rare thingthat you could get used equipment.
Most people were just sellingnew because it was easier.
So I went to the Yellow Pages, whichpeople listening now might even
know what Yellow Pages are, fingersthrough the wall and the yellow pages.
I found a company that does useracking and , I went to work for them.
(07:00):
, But what got me interested in the, , whatwas the last part of the question?
How I got to the, , the pizza.
Well, and well be before weeven get to the pizza part.
So you, you went into business, youdid, you know, the material handling
and you've had a successful career,, in this for, and, and, and tell us a
little bit about what you do today.
What is your, your core business and.
(07:23):
So our core business is selling,, rack shelving, conveyor systems,
mezzanines carts, really what everyoneneeds for a warehouse or operation
to, , optimize their efficiency.
Mm-hmm.
And my specialty is in the layout design.
And a lot of times when clients call us.
They're looking for a certainproduct, but they're really,
they're trying to solve a problem.
(07:44):
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, a lot of timeswhat somebody initially calls us
for, we'll find something thatthey didn't even know, , existed.
Like, for example, I have a, , alarge retailer that called us about
like, probably it was in January, andthey wanted, they had seen online,
there was like a mobile aisle system.
There's so many things you can doin, in shelving that it's like.
I'm too geeked out.
(08:06):
It's your Yeah, but like the backof shoe stores, anywhere there's
retail and space is a premium.
They have these things whereyou can just have one aisle.
So the shell are all kind of crammedtogether and then they can spread out, you
know, either automatically or manually,and they wanted something like that.
But I looked at their facility and itwas like 25 feet tall, and so I said,
well, you guys could do like a two tier.
(08:27):
Part storage catwalk system, or it'scalled a rack supported platform, which
is , it's kinda like a little tree housebuilt outta shelving, but it has stairs.
So instead of having the aisle mobile,which just made it two story where
you could climb up there and walkaround, they're really cool looking.
We should put.
So put a picture of one of those becauseit's one of the things, , it's just one
example of where somebody's looking forsomething and we find something else, and,
(08:51):
, I think the, the mobile aisle system waslike $200,000 and it was only gonna use,
you know, you're still gonna be shortbecause you can get to the tall stuff.
, So our solution was like under ahundred thousand and it's using their.
Full height of their building,you're solving the main problem,
like you're going in and seeing it.
So that, that is a true consultantto true strategist, you know,
(09:11):
looking for, , the full opportunity.
Okay.
So that, that makes a lot of sense.
And I know, , yourbusiness special racks.com
correct?
Is that Yes, that's correct.
Okay, fantastic.
So through this process of, ofhaving your own business, doing
what you do, et cetera, you decidedthat you wanted to write a book.
So tell us about this book andwhere did this concept come from?
(09:34):
And then I wanna diveinto the book itself.
Yeah.
So the book was,
. It's really it's interest.
It was inspired by my.
Master's degree because like Iwas saying, I, I was gonna get an
MBA, , right around 2000, 2001.
I was really crushing it in my career.
I was like four years outta collegeor five years and things were
going great and then this first.com
(09:56):
boom happened and theeconomy really sucked.
And, , I've always been a big proponentof education and everything and I thought,
man, I wanna do something that no matterwhat the economy does, I can build value.
That I'm gonna have value ifwhether the economy's up or down.
I'll be able to, so I just wanted to,, upskill or increase my skillset and I
was thinking MBA, but something hit me.
(10:19):
It was like a, a God shot ora moment where I just had this
really strong voice that said.
Don't do an NBA do somethingyou're passionate about.
And I've always been passionateabout the mind body problem.
Yeah.
Like how do kids, your thinking affectsyour performance Because, you know, when
you're an athlete, if you go out thereand you're scared you're gonna suck.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it can be scary.
(10:39):
Yeah.
, And I was a pitcher, so a lot of what, youknow, I always had the spotlight on me.
So I did a lot to train myself to becalm under pressure and, and execute.
I thought, man, I should studythe mind, body problem and, and go
into that because it's a passion.
I will, it'll drive, I'll do, I woulddo that in my spare time no matter what.
So, ended up going to JFK University,which is here in Northern California,
(11:01):
just outside of San Francisco.
And it was all these great ideasabout holistic thinking and problem
solving and just a different wayof being, different ways of being.
Mm-hmm.
And it's, . That's why I stillhave some of those old athlete,
like I think athletes are great.
I love, I've coached youth athletics.
That's been one of my passions.
(11:21):
But there's some pathologies towhat, what I call it is, , I kind of
develop, and this, it's a product ofmy environment, but it was a win at
all cost mindset of just like, we'regonna train, we're gonna be harder,
we're gonna do whatever it takes.
And, . Almost feelinglike I had to be that way.
You know?
Especially if the chips were down.
Like I've gotta be this strongathlete, whatever, buff, right?
(11:45):
Fully if I have to.
And so this was a whole new way of being.
I'm like, wow, this is available to me.
This is an option.
And then just practicing with the people.
And then an interesting thing thathappened when I told my boss, I'm gonna
get my master's degree in holistic health.
He was like, oh man.
He's like, your salesare gonna go down 40%.
You're all this stuff.
But what ended up happeningwhen I got into school, my
(12:07):
sales went through the roof.
I mean, even though the economywas down, , I think my sales
went up 40% in the, in the first.
Why do you think that is?
You know, a lot of it is the, you know,in business it's communication and
relationships and, and having that.
Not a win at all.
Cost attitude, more like awin-win or collaboration.
I mean, everything in mybusiness has been relationships.
(12:30):
I mean, that's one thing I'velearned is that I thought I was gonna
accomplish all these things, , orbe a self-made man or anything.
Well, the self-made man is atotal, , it's not true, right?
I mean, I just had people liftingme up and I guess I was open to it.
Open to, to, , you know,getting help, getting referrals.
Like I was always asking peoplefor new ideas or, or help.
(12:53):
. I wanna say be more vulnerable.
I don't even wanna say vulnerable'cause I don't wanna be vulnerable.
Right.
Well, how about we say authentic?
More authentic, real Authentic.
Authentic.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just being authentic is like, Hey, I don'tknow this stuff, but I'm a quick learner.
And I think I was just able to engagewith people on a, on a deeper level.
Mm-hmm.
, And then it meant more to me.
I mean, everything,
(13:13):
. Everything about mylife was more important.
I valued time more, you know,how short life is, , and the
people and really looking at how,you know, I've helped clients.
In their career where they've advanced,you know, they've had a project.
Like a lot of times one of thethings we do is if somebody's
closing down a facility mm-hmm.
Or if they're moving, we'llbuy the old equipment.
And it's, it's a reallytough business to be in.
(13:36):
Mm.
Because people wanna sell everything.
So there's forklift chairs.
I mean, we've had office equipmentlocker, like, what are we
gonna do with all this stuff?
Right.
Not throw it away.
But I've, , you know, I had oneclient that we did a project
for him in Salt Lake City.
And, , they kinda hadsomebody drop the ball.
We stepped in for him, gothim outta there on time.
So really it didn't really save hisjob 'cause they were closing that down.
(13:57):
But he looked at it, it was like, wow,these guys came in and helped us get outta
here on time when we were in trouble.
So he did another facilityin he and Kentucky.
They brought us with, they brought uswith, and it was just those relationships.
So somebody knows, like,I can call this guy.
Yeah.
And he's got connections.
Mm-hmm.
That he could solve our problems.
You know, we can solve hard problemsjust because, not that I'm great
(14:21):
or anything, but I've got all thesepeople around me, , who are amazing.
You know, everything you're talkingabout right now just reminds me
of, , Zig Ziglar's most famous quote,which is, you can have everything in
life you want if you just help enoughother people get what they want.
And, and doesn't that,and that's the truth.
Like when you go from, I think you saidit like from the me, it's all about
me to more we and that collaborative.
(14:42):
People we know it, we can sense,we can sense when somebody has
their best interest at heartor our best interest at heart.
And so, , I think that's agreat message, mark, because it
is a shift in thinking, right?
And we do, a lot of us docome from that high achiever,
gotta make it number one hit.
But, but at the end of the day, itis, , it, it's a shift in the way we
(15:03):
think about ourselves and other people.
And so I, I really love that.
. That's really, really awesome.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I had to, , I'll tell oneon myself because, you know,
there's always the theory.
That's one of the hard thingsabout writing a book too.
And writing this book.
It's like, these are, this is theideal or this is the ideal way to be.
But being human, I still findmyself in those wind at all costs.
(15:25):
Right?
I took this class called, , Ihad to, to coach lacrosse.
I don't know anything about lacrosse,but my son was playing lacrosse
and they needed an assistant coach.
And I was like, you know, I'll chasea ball around and do crowd control,
but you had to get a positiveCoaching Alliance certification
and there were all these things.
And the win at all cost was what theycompared it to, you know, as a coach.
(15:47):
And, , you know, I'm like a, I'ma no participation trophies guy.
It's like, but at the, I was takingthis class and I was just joking.
I go, I go, there's a PositiveCoaching Alliance class.
I go, I'm gonna start awin at all cost class.
But I did it and when I learned it,but it is, , it's something for me.
(16:07):
I think, you know, now I'm in my fifties,. Owning that win at all cost and doing it
the right way and being collaborative.
, It, it's, it's, I'm not gonna say it'salways gonna be a challenge 'cause I'm
always hoping one day I'll just wake upand be this, bear, bear luck with that.
We're all on the same journey, right?
And we're always evolving.
And I really wanna dive into thebook because, , thet Pizza, I mean.
(16:32):
There's so much in it.
I mean, there's so many different ideasand stories and metaphors and, you
know, just so many things about thatthat can be applied to really life,
leadership, business, you know, anything.
Right?
And a, a, a owner of a company to astudent could really benefit from it.
So tell us a little bit about what exactlyis the book about, , and, but first,
(16:59):
before you tell us what it's about.
What on earth, where didyou come up with the title?
The towel of pizza or towel of pizza?
So that's a great, that is a greatquestion and , I probably came up
with it way too earlier than I shouldhave, but I was working on outline,
working on writing, and it's , soone of the things, the great Doubt.
(17:21):
I don't wanna go too much into Daoism,but the, one of the definitions of the
doubt is it can't be put into words.
And I was thinking all this stuff, I'mtrying to explain like the difference
between a win at all cost or acollaborative mindset is, , it's tough
to put in words like the rosemary thing.
If you just tell until you reallysmell rosemary, pass it around you,
it's, it's difficult to explain.
(17:43):
And, . So the, what I was trying tocome up with is how do we, because
the whole thing is how do we look atthings from a different perspective?
Mm-hmm.
And so one perspective is thiswholeness, where everything
is connected to everything.
And then the great da, like we're all Dao,everything is Dao, trees, the water, the
earth, it's really all just one thing.
Mm-hmm.
And then, but we separate it out.
And so.
(18:03):
The one thing is the Dao and thenthe separating out is the pizza
because you have to look at life.
There's a pizza and so there's alot of, one of the, , my favorite,
the Zig Ziglar life wheel mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Is, , something I've always used.
And now there's waydifferent ways I've done it.
Like you could score yourself on aone to 10 and then draw a little line.
So you've got this thing whereyour family life, your business
(18:26):
life, social, spiritual.
So I've worked a lot of that andit kind of looks like a pizza.
And I was like, yeah, okay.
To divide these things out.
I'm a father, I'm a husband,I'm a coach in the community.
I'm a leader in business industry.
I'm all these different things,but I'm really just one thing.
Mm-hmm.
So that's , and so the other thingis, before I even came up with
the name, I came up with this ideathat I want it to be something
(18:49):
spiritual and something with food.
So like the brainstorming, likeSpirit Taco got thrown out.
Like, but that was oneof the, the options.
And, and so there's another,this is is an important thing.
I'm glad you asked me.
I just, I just thought of this.
, So I took the, the holistic health.
When I left, there were a lot of practicesthat I kept and I graduated in 2007.
(19:13):
, But I had this personal practice thatI kept going and, and a lot of the
principles that I was doing, , mymorning rituals, the way I look at
things, the way I manage my energy.
I was, when I started doingresearch for the book, I'm like,
wait a minute, these are all Daoistprinciples, you know, like to be like
water or to the yin and the yang.
I mean the, there's , andit's really yin and yang.
(19:33):
I hate to say yang.
'cause then it makes you signbecause everyone says yin and yang.
Yang.
Yeah.
But those concepts that, you know,, one of the things I love is a lot
of sayings that people are really.
, Passionate about could mean two things.
Like, one of the things I love to sayis I don't believe in coincidences.
Well, that could mean I think thateverything happens for a reason, or I
(19:54):
don't think everything happens because,like, I don't believe in coincidences.
Well, there's two ways to look at that.
Yeah.
And they, they kind of contain eachother and there's a lot of axioms or
things will be what people will say.
But, but the, the reason I chose Dow,. Everyone's glad I didn't choose Spirit
Taco, but I chose Dao because I'd beenpracticing all these things, but I
(20:15):
didn't even know that it was called that.
Yeah.
I, and, but it all just started lining up.
, A lot of the things I learned, learnedwere based in the practice of I keto.
Mm-hmm.
That's really supported by,it's a Daoist philosophy.
And then the, the key thingabout Aikido, it's a martial art
of how to fight, but the main.
Tenant behind Aikido is thatyou protect your attacker as
(20:37):
you're defending yourself.
Mm-hmm.
So giving me chills, because I'venever heard of anything like that.
Yeah.
So funny that you're trying to fightin a way to where you end it, but
you're protecting your attackerand that's part of the philosophy.
So, , I love it.
Just the, the people, thepeople I had in my life, and
I'm like, oh, she was a Daoist.
She never called it, she neversaid, Hey, we're practicing Daoism.
(20:59):
But we just had these things that wedid in communication in, , meditation,
and it was just, there was this kindof Daoist through line that I'm looking
back 20 years later and going, oh,that was, that was Dallas, because
I've been a Christian since I was 18.
And you know, really, Idon't talk a lot about.
(21:19):
Testimony of, of faith and everything.
But, but that's been mymain spiritual, , practice.
But I've been doing it in a Daoist way.
I love it.
I love it.
Yeah.
Okay, so I'm sitting here kind ofgiggling, but also embarrassed of myself.
I've been saying it wrongthroughout this whole podcast.
(21:40):
I've been saying, no, not do,and I even before we started
this podcast, I was thinking.
I think it's Dow, but it's spelledwith a T, so I'm gonna say Tao.
So anyway, I know that now that Ihave been saying that wrong, and you
know what, I'm owning that, right?
Yeah.
It kind of goes along with whatyou're talking about though, because
really like with everything, youcan see things two different ways.
(22:03):
So I'm, I'm just gonna, well, I'llgive you, if I knew what I was doing.
Yeah.
One of my, , one of my favoritelines is I'm not a huge Tim Ferriss
fan, but I've read all of his books.
Like I read, I didn't read Four HourWork Week, but I read Four Hour Body,
and I've, I've seen a lot of talks.
I do really like Tim.
, But he says Tau.
I mean, he's got a few things that,he's got a, there's a podcast old
(22:26):
that he did the, , tau of Seneca.
It's actually really good ifyou want to put it in the show.
It's, , because he's taking, he tooksomething to compare kind of, , stoicism.
'cause I think Seneca was a stoicism.
I'm not a super.
He was like the Tao, buthe called it the Tao.
And so people make that mistake and oneof my, . Inspirations is, so I'm wanna
make, so his name is Sola and he is veryparticular about how you pronounce it.
(22:51):
He's written a lot of, , books onDaoism and he's super, , particular
about how you pronounce things.
And I'm not, I love like yin and yang.
I mean, it's really yang,but is it really young?
Because most people say yang.
Exactly.
, And my mom, my mom who, , she wasone of the first people to read
my book in, . She wouldn't leaveme a review until she finished it.
(23:12):
I remember she calls it Tao, and soI'm not gonna correct my mom on that.
, Right.
Tomato, tomato, potato, potato.
Right.
Like, what, whatever it is.
But I wouldn't, I wanna respect thefact that it is Tao and . But the
concepts and, and the benefit ofit, it, it doesn't matter, right?
(23:33):
It really doesn't.
It's more the, , just this practice of,I think you said it, it's just being
right and, and, and embracing things.
And I, I, I thought, and I don'twanna use the word simple because
there's a lot to it, but it isalso just the simplicity of it all.
Right?
And, and how it's an accessiblepiece that we can be living with.
(23:56):
, Anybody can.
Yeah.
So for those of you, or for thosewho haven't read the book yet,
, which I highly recommend getting,and just go to dao of pizza.com
and that is TAO of pizza.com.
But what are three or four thingslike, what are some of the main
(24:16):
takeaways that someone's gonnaget when they read this book?
Or, or anything that you wanna shareto kind of give us a little bit
of a, a taste of this, this pizza.
So I, I provided a lot of opportunities,especially in the, in the first
four chapters, to look at thingsfrom a different perspective.
Because I think so many,, opportunities, there's this idea
(24:39):
of, , what we, what we know.
We know what we know, we don't know,but there's this huge part of the pie.
There's another pizza.
What we don't know, we don't know.
Right is the vaguest slice of the pie.
And so anytime we can look atthings from a different perspective,
like I think I have, , thefirst four chapters are lenses.
'cause I think I love theword lens of a good looks.
(24:59):
So I have a spiritual lens.
Emotional lens, a mental lens.
'cause these are all different ways thatare gifts that we can bring our gifts to
light or see things, , in a certain way.
And then the, the fourth chapteris the action lens, which really.
, I didn't put this quote in mybook because I think it's overused
and underdelivered, but be, youknow, Gandhi, the be the change.
(25:20):
Mm-hmm.
You wanna see?
Mm-hmm.
Oh yeah.
And so I tried to create somethingthat could help people generate that
result in their life of just being,what I like to say is being a resource.
I wanna be a resource to where I'm nottrying to do something or I just am.
I am.
The decision to, to becompassionate and look for win-win.
(25:41):
Like I just, I am, it's kind a weird wayto use language, but if you are something
people could just tell, you know what?
I even need to say something.
They don't, they might not get it.
, But, you know, be a place, be a spacewhere I'm not always giving advice.
If somebody comes to me with aproblem, I wanna be someone who could
just listen and not say anything.
I mean, sometimes that'sthe hardest action.
(26:03):
Of all is just to listen and be present.
And then there's some conversationsthat are really difficult.
It's tough to stay present inconversations where it gets, and
that's another reason that ofthere's more success in business
is that a lot of times things haveto get uncomfortable to get going.
Sure.
And so if you can be comfortablein those spaces and, , develop
(26:25):
yourself in a holistic way.
I mean, that was my other thing.
, Other than the lenses, Ithink we all have gifts.
That we can develop, , self-awarenessis, is really the one that is
the, the key to all of 'em.
, I told you between whether sense ofhumor should be first or second, but
probably the, , the sensation of yoursix senses is what I call something.
(26:46):
Mm-hmm.
But just like what it feels like.
Yeah, which is hard to describe,but that's a gift if, if you have a
gut feeling or something makes youuncomfortable or something makes
you feel great, doing somethinglike, wow, why am I so into this?
But just to be in tune with that.
, The other is a sense of humorbecause anytime you try to
go deeper is kind of funny.
And like the book, it is meant to be a lotof fun because again, I'm not an expert.
(27:08):
One of the reasons I feel.
If I can write a book is I've messedthis stuff up more than anyone.
, And especially now, even now that it'spublished, , that the things I'm up
against are it, it's kind of a new level.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And, but it's like, I asked for this, Iasked for more business opportunities.
I asked for more territory.
(27:29):
So, well, this is what that looks like.
And so how do you have peacewith that and, and be with it?
. So you gotta have a sense ofhumor and then imagination.
I mean, imagination is so huge.
If we can find ways, like the way youcreatively solve problems and get together
and collaborate is using your imagination.
So, so that's another gift.
, An inner voice, which is something I'vejust talked a little bit about, but
(27:52):
I think I've read, especially being awriter, the inner critic comes up Oh yeah.
Like at the state.
Imposter, I'm not good enough.
Or, I mean, well, that's a social script.
That's not you.
Mm-hmm.
And so your inner voice is something,you know, that's a gift that you have.
And so that's in the book of, ofhow do you develop that inner voice.
So, you know, like, okay, this is me.
This is coming from a place like the voicethat told me to, to study holistic health
(28:16):
instead of getting an MBA, , you know,maybe my net worth is half of what it
should be or what it would be as an MBA.
But who knows?
Maybe it's more or less, butdefinitely my peace level yes.
Is higher.
And then, , the last oneis choice and, and choice.
I put last, , just becausechoice happens in all those other
(28:37):
containers, choice happens inthe container of self-awareness.
Yeah.
What you feel like physically and likesome choices are just knee jerk reactions.
Like, oh, I'm scared.
I guess I'm going back to win it all.
Cost mode.
Yeah.
But to have the inner voice andall those other things, then you
actually are making a choice.
And so it makes your choice more powerful.
So, so those are the, the, the six gifts.
(28:58):
. And so four different lenses, sixgifts, and then just the stories of
how that's played it out in my life.
The amazing solutions I've seen thatwouldn't have happened on their own
if it wasn't for these amazing peoplewho surrounded me, uplifted me.
That that was the other bigthing about the book is like,
Hey, I didn't do this on my own.
So I wanted to highlight some of thepeople and organizations that that
(29:19):
really lifted my life up in ways I hadno idea and I had no idea at the time.
And it's humbling.
. And so that's kinda what thelast part of the book is about,
is just who are these people?
What are these stories?
You know, what were these changesin perspective that, , I'm
just really grateful mm-hmm.
That I'm not the, , 18-year-oldwin at all cost.
(29:40):
Right.
We're working in progress.
Right.
Yeah.
Moments of that.
Well, I, I just, I really do.
I'm, first of all, I'm so excitedfor you and I think this, this,
the, the book has so much For thoseof you listening, highly, highly
recommend you get it right away.
It's an easy read, but it's thisrecipe, you know, and I know we're
playing off of the whole pizza analogy.
(30:00):
Grab a slice.
But, but really it is, it's arecipe for better living, more
peaceful living, , you know, reallytuning into your gifts and your.
, Getting, you said the word intune a few times, intuition in
tune, like, like really justgetting in tune to who you are.
And, , so anyway, there's so many greatstories in there, so I'm excited for you.
(30:22):
Is there one last thing before we wrap up.
Is there anything, one last pieceof advice for people living or
people living, people listening.
Hopefully you're living too,, living with a great purpose.
, But no, give us something to onelast piece or a nugget, something
that we can go take this into our,the rest of our day this week.
Something that we can apply to ourlife as it relates to the Dao of pizza.
(30:46):
So the thing that's just comingup for me is, . Is my dad.
And, and I did put this in the, butone of the things my dad told me, , a
few years before he passed away is thatthe, , the purpose of life is to find
your gifts and the meaning of life is touse those gifts to serve other people.
And I think this book is, is an invitationand, . For people to engage with that.
(31:10):
And, and it's, , it's somethingthat's resonated with a lot of people.
I've had a lot of people call me and say,Hey, I've thought about simple, you know,
something similar to this, that like ourreal purpose and meaning is just to find
ways to use what we're good at and helpsome other community or business or crowd.
And I think, , I mean I think thatphilosophy or that approach, , can
(31:32):
bring a lot of healing to, to.
Business, personal, family, community,, then that's really the, the message.
Yeah, that is.
So, and I think you can have some funwith it, with my book too, because
I could try to inject a, a certainamount of humor to make it fun.
Oh, it's so good.
Well, mark, thank you somuch for being on the show.
I cannot wait to see all the greatthings that are gonna continue
(31:54):
to happen with the book with you.
, So thank you.
Thank you so much for being on the show.
Thank you.
The pleasure is all mine.
, I've only done a few of theseand, , you asked some great questions.
I, I appreciate, , I appreciateyour interest, your support
and, , this, this has been a great.
Great time.
Thank you.
You are so welcome.
All right everyone.
That is it for the Powerof Authority Spotlight.
(32:15):
But before we go, just a couple things.
Something Mark said that just reallyresonated with me, and I, I want you
to take this with you as you go too.
And, and that's the whole pointof being, and I, I was thinking as
he was talking, you know, we are.
Human beings.
We are not human doings.
We are not human.
You know, planners, we are human beings.
And so just that, that reminder thatjust be, we are created exactly the
(32:38):
way we're supposed to be and to, youknow, fully embrace who you are, your
gifts, your talents, overcoming that.
Imposter syndrome, which we all have.
But , I just really, really love it.
I highly recommend, , getting intouch with Mark reading his book.
, Definitely find him onLinkedIn, mark Fidelson.
, And then the book ofcourse is tao of pizza.com,
(32:58):
t ao , of pizza.com.
So that's it for the show.
We'll see you next time on thePower of Authority Spotlight.
Bye everyone.
Thanks so much for listening tothe Power of Authority Spotlight.
If you are a successful founder,entrepreneur, business owner, or
(33:20):
leader that's getting results andmaking a difference, and you'd like
to be on this program, please visitperformance publishing group.com/podcast
to apply.
That's performancepublishing group.com/podcast.
Also, if you got something out of this.
Interview, please share this episode.
Just do a quick screenshot withyour phone and text it to a
(33:42):
friend or post it on the socials.
If you know someone that would be a greatguest, tag them on social media to let
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We are regularly putting out newepisodes and content, so make
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(34:04):
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or michelle prince.com
and follow me on LinkedIn,Facebook, and Instagram.
Thanks so much for listening,and we'll see you next time.
Welcome to the Powerof Authority Spotlight.
I'm your host, Michelle Prince,founder and CEO of Performance
Publishing Group, making a Difference.
One story at a time, we'll beshining the light on successful
founders, entrepreneurs, businessowners, and leaders that are getting
results and making a difference.
We'll talk about how they builttheir businesses are creating
(00:26):
movements and leveraging thepower of authority in their.
Own lives.
Be sure to stick around to theend of the show and we'll reveal
how you can be our next guest.
Let's get started.
Hey everybody, and welcome to the Powerof Authority Spotlight, where we shine
the light on business owners, leaders,founders, people that are telling their
(00:48):
story, they're building businesses, andthey're making a difference along the way.
And our guest today is Mark Delson, whois a holistic business strategist podcast
host of Thet of Pizza, community builderand spiritual explorer with a master's
degree in holistic health education.
He's known for bridging theworlds of personal growth.
And practical performance.
Mark has spent decades integratingtau philosophy, systems
(01:12):
thinking and human developmentprinciples in both his business.
And personal life.
And as the founder of a successfulmaterial handling company, he brings a
grounded real world approach to conceptslike energy management, emotional
intelligence, and conscious leadership.
In the Tower of Pizza book,mark draws from a lifetime a.
Of lessons on baseball fields andboardrooms, spiritual retreats in his
(01:35):
own backyard to invite readers into amore connected, purposeful way of being.
His signature model.
The whole person Paradigm has helpedindividuals and teams unlock their
highest potential by realigning with corevalues and embracing their whole self.
Mark lives in Napa, California withhis wife and children surrounded by
trees, community, and rosemary bushes.
(01:56):
Sounds amazing.
He greets on his morning walks.
He's passionate about coaching,storytelling, and building ecosystems
where people and ideas thrive.
Mark, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
Thank you.,
It's a pleasure to be here.
Thank you for having me.
I, I wish I had some rosemary here.
I can actually kinda smell it.
(02:16):
I love rosemary bushes.
That reminds me of my childhood actually.
My mom always planted and grewrosemary, and I just, I love it.
It makes me happy.
That smell makes me happy.
It's, , it's a funny, , of a lotof the people who've read the book.
There's a story in there about.
That was when I firststarted my master's degree.
I was taking a class in holistic nutritionand the instructor was talking about
(02:39):
making friends with plants on her dailywalk and, , picking up these Rosemary
Riggs, and I was kind of coming, I,I was getting my master's degree in
holistic health instead of an MBA.
Mm-hmm.
So I went in there with kind ofthis regimented and I'm like.
Man, I'm paying a lot of money to havesomebody tell me about walking around the
neighborhood, making friends with plants.
(03:01):
But as she, she passed around alittle sprig of rosemary and let us
smell it and get our senses involved.
And, , it's like, it still gives mechills right now to think of, like, wow.
I'm like, this is worththe money I'm paying.
Because at first I'm thinking, why am Ipaying all this money to talk about this?
, But she went into all the uses.
Rosemary's like a thousand year old.
(03:22):
. Herb and it just grows everywhere.
And in California, Imean, they're everywhere.
And , and it's just thesimplicity of it, right?
It's, it's like you said, you went inthinking it's gonna be more complicated
or, or more structured, but that'sjust life and, and, and so much of
what your message and your passion andeverything that you're doing, you know,
with your book and, and everything else.
(03:43):
It's the simplicity of it all, , which,which is what I love so much.
So Mark, you and I met, gosh,now, it's been about, how long ago
was it when you and I first wereconnected by our dear friend, Dr.
Jeremy Weiss.
Yeah.
Dr.
Jeremy.
And a year and a halfago, probably a year.
Yeah.
Yeah, because I've been telling, well, thejoke, one of my running jokes is that I've
(04:04):
been saying that my book took eight years,and I've been saying that for two years.
So the time is kind of, it'sa elastic, , scenario, but I
think it has been eight months.
So don't, don't trust me on thetiming because everything seems.
I know for six months or three months.
Well, and I'm, so, I know it'sbeen more than six months.
(04:24):
Right.
Well, all I know is I'm so glad thatwe were connected because you do,
you have such a powerful message, andI do wanna talk about you and your
book and the Tower of Pizza and allof that that goes along with that.
But if you wouldn't mind, foreverybody listening, just give us
a little background of, of what youdo, how you got started, and, and
how you even came to the idea ofwanting to talk about pizza in a book.
(04:50):
That's a, that's a lot.
So I'll start with, , you know, my goalwhen I was a, I was a really young man,
like probably 12, 13 years old, was tobe a professional baseball player and,
. I got really serious, probablytoo serious for a 13-year-old or
12-year-old to be, but I was justreally determined to train and I looked
at like, there's things you can doto get better, your body, your mind,
and , going to workshops and retreats.
(05:13):
And I was injured in my senior year.
Like I thought, you know, Iwas six foot two, 200 pounds.
Like it was exactly the modelof what somebody wanted.
So I'm like, I'm justgonna automatically be pro.
It's, , it's not that easy I found, andI was a little naive, but I got hurt.
And when I got hurt, I thought, , I'mjust gonna use the same principles and
(05:34):
everything that I applied to trainingand baseball and, and everything and
using my mind and body in business.
And I thought I can have a similar levelof success by using the same principles.
And, , that led me on apath to, , go to Sac State.
And in those days.
The career center was a bunchof three ring binders, Uhhuh.
So I spent probably a monthin the, in the career center,
(05:56):
just flipping through binders.
And one of my top reasons forfinding a, a career was how
much money I was gonna make.
I kind laughed.
Didn't we all do that at,at, at that stage of life?
And it just so happened that the materialhandling industry, there was a, an
ad and it was, . You know, they weremaking about the same as, and I had a
(06:17):
little bit of background in engineering.
I ended up getting my degree in economics,, and I've got a lot of experience in sales.
So I was thinking, how do I use all ofthese engineering, economic sales and
material handling just popped up as thisindustry that was kind of construction.
There were sales involved, it'sengineering, and , I just started
doing research about that industry.
Actually found the company.
(06:39):
, I noticed by doing my homework that a lotof people wanted to use the equipment.
Mm.
And it was kind of a rare thingthat you could get used equipment.
Most people were just sellingnew because it was easier.
So I went to the Yellow Pages, whichpeople listening now might even
know what Yellow Pages are, fingersthrough the wall and the yellow pages.
I found a company that does useracking and , I went to work for them.
(07:00):
, But what got me interested in the, , whatwas the last part of the question?
How I got to the, , the pizza.
Well, and well be before weeven get to the pizza part.
So you, you went into business, youdid, you know, the material handling
and you've had a successful career,, in this for, and, and, and tell us a
little bit about what you do today.
What is your, your core business and.
(07:23):
So our core business is selling,, rack shelving, conveyor systems,
mezzanines carts, really what everyoneneeds for a warehouse or operation
to, , optimize their efficiency.
Mm-hmm.
And my specialty is in the layout design.
And a lot of times when clients call us.
They're looking for a certainproduct, but they're really,
they're trying to solve a problem.
(07:44):
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, a lot of timeswhat somebody initially calls us
for, we'll find something thatthey didn't even know, , existed.
Like, for example, I have a, , alarge retailer that called us about
like, probably it was in January, andthey wanted, they had seen online,
there was like a mobile aisle system.
There's so many things you can doin, in shelving that it's like.
I'm too geeked out.
(08:06):
It's your Yeah, but like the backof shoe stores, anywhere there's
retail and space is a premium.
They have these things whereyou can just have one aisle.
So the shell are all kind of crammedtogether and then they can spread out, you
know, either automatically or manually,and they wanted something like that.
But I looked at their facility and itwas like 25 feet tall, and so I said,
well, you guys could do like a two tier.
(08:27):
Part storage catwalk system, or it'scalled a rack supported platform, which
is , it's kinda like a little tree housebuilt outta shelving, but it has stairs.
So instead of having the aisle mobile,which just made it two story where
you could climb up there and walkaround, they're really cool looking.
We should put.
So put a picture of one of those becauseit's one of the things, , it's just one
example of where somebody's looking forsomething and we find something else, and,
(08:51):
, I think the, the mobile aisle system waslike $200,000 and it was only gonna use,
you know, you're still gonna be shortbecause you can get to the tall stuff.
, So our solution was like under ahundred thousand and it's using their.
Full height of their building,you're solving the main problem,
like you're going in and seeing it.
So that, that is a true consultantto true strategist, you know,
(09:11):
looking for, , the full opportunity.
Okay.
So that, that makes a lot of sense.
And I know, , yourbusiness special racks.com
correct?
Is that Yes, that's correct.
Okay, fantastic.
So through this process of, ofhaving your own business, doing
what you do, et cetera, you decidedthat you wanted to write a book.
So tell us about this book andwhere did this concept come from?
(09:34):
And then I wanna diveinto the book itself.
Yeah.
So the book was,
. It's really it's interest.
It was inspired by my.
Master's degree because like Iwas saying, I, I was gonna get an
MBA, , right around 2000, 2001.
I was really crushing it in my career.
I was like four years outta collegeor five years and things were
going great and then this first.com
(09:56):
boom happened and theeconomy really sucked.
And, , I've always been a big proponentof education and everything and I thought,
man, I wanna do something that no matterwhat the economy does, I can build value.
That I'm gonna have value ifwhether the economy's up or down.
I'll be able to, so I just wanted to,, upskill or increase my skillset and I
was thinking MBA, but something hit me.
(10:19):
It was like a, a God shot ora moment where I just had this
really strong voice that said.
Don't do an NBA do somethingyou're passionate about.
And I've always been passionateabout the mind body problem.
Yeah.
Like how do kids, your thinking affectsyour performance Because, you know, when
you're an athlete, if you go out thereand you're scared you're gonna suck.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it can be scary.
(10:39):
Yeah.
, And I was a pitcher, so a lot of what, youknow, I always had the spotlight on me.
So I did a lot to train myself to becalm under pressure and, and execute.
I thought, man, I should studythe mind, body problem and, and go
into that because it's a passion.
I will, it'll drive, I'll do, I woulddo that in my spare time no matter what.
So, ended up going to JFK University,which is here in Northern California,
(11:01):
just outside of San Francisco.
And it was all these great ideasabout holistic thinking and problem
solving and just a different wayof being, different ways of being.
Mm-hmm.
And it's, . That's why I stillhave some of those old athlete,
like I think athletes are great.
I love, I've coached youth athletics.
That's been one of my passions.
(11:21):
But there's some pathologies towhat, what I call it is, , I kind of
develop, and this, it's a product ofmy environment, but it was a win at
all cost mindset of just like, we'regonna train, we're gonna be harder,
we're gonna do whatever it takes.
And, . Almost feelinglike I had to be that way.
You know?
Especially if the chips were down.
Like I've gotta be this strongathlete, whatever, buff, right?
(11:45):
Fully if I have to.
And so this was a whole new way of being.
I'm like, wow, this is available to me.
This is an option.
And then just practicing with the people.
And then an interesting thing thathappened when I told my boss, I'm gonna
get my master's degree in holistic health.
He was like, oh man.
He's like, your salesare gonna go down 40%.
You're all this stuff.
But what ended up happeningwhen I got into school, my
(12:07):
sales went through the roof.
I mean, even though the economywas down, , I think my sales
went up 40% in the, in the first.
Why do you think that is?
You know, a lot of it is the, you know,in business it's communication and
relationships and, and having that.
Not a win at all.
Cost attitude, more like awin-win or collaboration.
I mean, everything in mybusiness has been relationships.
(12:30):
I mean, that's one thing I'velearned is that I thought I was gonna
accomplish all these things, , orbe a self-made man or anything.
Well, the self-made man is atotal, , it's not true, right?
I mean, I just had people liftingme up and I guess I was open to it.
Open to, to, , you know,getting help, getting referrals.
Like I was always asking peoplefor new ideas or, or help.
(12:53):
. I wanna say be more vulnerable.
I don't even wanna say vulnerable'cause I don't wanna be vulnerable.
Right.
Well, how about we say authentic?
More authentic, real Authentic.
Authentic.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just being authentic is like, Hey, I don'tknow this stuff, but I'm a quick learner.
And I think I was just able to engagewith people on a, on a deeper level.
Mm-hmm.
, And then it meant more to me.
I mean, everything,
(13:13):
. Everything about mylife was more important.
I valued time more, you know,how short life is, , and the
people and really looking at how,you know, I've helped clients.
In their career where they've advanced,you know, they've had a project.
Like a lot of times one of thethings we do is if somebody's
closing down a facility mm-hmm.
Or if they're moving, we'llbuy the old equipment.
And it's, it's a reallytough business to be in.
(13:36):
Mm.
Because people wanna sell everything.
So there's forklift chairs.
I mean, we've had office equipmentlocker, like, what are we
gonna do with all this stuff?
Right.
Not throw it away.
But I've, , you know, I had oneclient that we did a project
for him in Salt Lake City.
And, , they kinda hadsomebody drop the ball.
We stepped in for him, gothim outta there on time.
So really it didn't really save hisjob 'cause they were closing that down.
(13:57):
But he looked at it, it was like, wow,these guys came in and helped us get outta
here on time when we were in trouble.
So he did another facilityin he and Kentucky.
They brought us with, they brought uswith, and it was just those relationships.
So somebody knows, like,I can call this guy.
Yeah.
And he's got connections.
Mm-hmm.
That he could solve our problems.
You know, we can solve hard problemsjust because, not that I'm great
(14:21):
or anything, but I've got all thesepeople around me, , who are amazing.
You know, everything you're talkingabout right now just reminds me
of, , Zig Ziglar's most famous quote,which is, you can have everything in
life you want if you just help enoughother people get what they want.
And, and doesn't that,and that's the truth.
Like when you go from, I think you saidit like from the me, it's all about
me to more we and that collaborative.
(14:42):
People we know it, we can sense,we can sense when somebody has
their best interest at heartor our best interest at heart.
And so, , I think that's agreat message, mark, because it
is a shift in thinking, right?
And we do, a lot of us docome from that high achiever,
gotta make it number one hit.
But, but at the end of the day, itis, , it, it's a shift in the way we
(15:03):
think about ourselves and other people.
And so I, I really love that.
. That's really, really awesome.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I had to, , I'll tell oneon myself because, you know,
there's always the theory.
That's one of the hard thingsabout writing a book too.
And writing this book.
It's like, these are, this is theideal or this is the ideal way to be.
But being human, I still findmyself in those wind at all costs.
(15:25):
Right?
I took this class called, , Ihad to, to coach lacrosse.
I don't know anything about lacrosse,but my son was playing lacrosse
and they needed an assistant coach.
And I was like, you know, I'll chasea ball around and do crowd control,
but you had to get a positiveCoaching Alliance certification
and there were all these things.
And the win at all cost was what theycompared it to, you know, as a coach.
(15:47):
And, , you know, I'm like a, I'ma no participation trophies guy.
It's like, but at the, I was takingthis class and I was just joking.
I go, I go, there's a PositiveCoaching Alliance class.
I go, I'm gonna start awin at all cost class.
But I did it and when I learned it,but it is, , it's something for me.
(16:07):
I think, you know, now I'm in my fifties,. Owning that win at all cost and doing it
the right way and being collaborative.
, It, it's, it's, I'm not gonna say it'salways gonna be a challenge 'cause I'm
always hoping one day I'll just wake upand be this, bear, bear luck with that.
We're all on the same journey, right?
And we're always evolving.
And I really wanna dive into thebook because, , thet Pizza, I mean.
(16:32):
There's so much in it.
I mean, there's so many different ideasand stories and metaphors and, you
know, just so many things about thatthat can be applied to really life,
leadership, business, you know, anything.
Right?
And a, a, a owner of a company to astudent could really benefit from it.
So tell us a little bit about what exactlyis the book about, , and, but first,
(16:59):
before you tell us what it's about.
What on earth, where didyou come up with the title?
The towel of pizza or towel of pizza?
So that's a great, that is a greatquestion and , I probably came up
with it way too earlier than I shouldhave, but I was working on outline,
working on writing, and it's , soone of the things, the great Doubt.
(17:21):
I don't wanna go too much into Daoism,but the, one of the definitions of the
doubt is it can't be put into words.
And I was thinking all this stuff, I'mtrying to explain like the difference
between a win at all cost or acollaborative mindset is, , it's tough
to put in words like the rosemary thing.
If you just tell until you reallysmell rosemary, pass it around you,
it's, it's difficult to explain.
(17:43):
And, . So the, what I was trying tocome up with is how do we, because
the whole thing is how do we look atthings from a different perspective?
Mm-hmm.
And so one perspective is thiswholeness, where everything
is connected to everything.
And then the great da, like we're all Dao,everything is Dao, trees, the water, the
earth, it's really all just one thing.
Mm-hmm.
And then, but we separate it out.
And so.
(18:03):
The one thing is the Dao and thenthe separating out is the pizza
because you have to look at life.
There's a pizza and so there's alot of, one of the, , my favorite,
the Zig Ziglar life wheel mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Is, , something I've always used.
And now there's waydifferent ways I've done it.
Like you could score yourself on aone to 10 and then draw a little line.
So you've got this thing whereyour family life, your business
(18:26):
life, social, spiritual.
So I've worked a lot of that andit kind of looks like a pizza.
And I was like, yeah, okay.
To divide these things out.
I'm a father, I'm a husband,I'm a coach in the community.
I'm a leader in business industry.
I'm all these different things,but I'm really just one thing.
Mm-hmm.
So that's , and so the other thingis, before I even came up with
the name, I came up with this ideathat I want it to be something
(18:49):
spiritual and something with food.
So like the brainstorming, likeSpirit Taco got thrown out.
Like, but that was oneof the, the options.
And, and so there's another,this is is an important thing.
I'm glad you asked me.
I just, I just thought of this.
, So I took the, the holistic health.
When I left, there were a lot of practicesthat I kept and I graduated in 2007.
(19:13):
, But I had this personal practice thatI kept going and, and a lot of the
principles that I was doing, , mymorning rituals, the way I look at
things, the way I manage my energy.
I was, when I started doingresearch for the book, I'm like,
wait a minute, these are all Daoistprinciples, you know, like to be like
water or to the yin and the yang.
I mean the, there's , andit's really yin and yang.
(19:33):
I hate to say yang.
'cause then it makes you signbecause everyone says yin and yang.
Yang.
Yeah.
But those concepts that, you know,, one of the things I love is a lot
of sayings that people are really.
, Passionate about could mean two things.
Like, one of the things I love to sayis I don't believe in coincidences.
Well, that could mean I think thateverything happens for a reason, or I
(19:54):
don't think everything happens because,like, I don't believe in coincidences.
Well, there's two ways to look at that.
Yeah.
And they, they kind of contain eachother and there's a lot of axioms or
things will be what people will say.
But, but the, the reason I chose Dow,. Everyone's glad I didn't choose Spirit
Taco, but I chose Dao because I'd beenpracticing all these things, but I
(20:15):
didn't even know that it was called that.
Yeah.
I, and, but it all just started lining up.
, A lot of the things I learned, learnedwere based in the practice of I keto.
Mm-hmm.
That's really supported by,it's a Daoist philosophy.
And then the, the key thingabout Aikido, it's a martial art
of how to fight, but the main.
Tenant behind Aikido is thatyou protect your attacker as
(20:37):
you're defending yourself.
Mm-hmm.
So giving me chills, because I'venever heard of anything like that.
Yeah.
So funny that you're trying to fightin a way to where you end it, but
you're protecting your attackerand that's part of the philosophy.
So, , I love it.
Just the, the people, thepeople I had in my life, and
I'm like, oh, she was a Daoist.
She never called it, she neversaid, Hey, we're practicing Daoism.
(20:59):
But we just had these things that wedid in communication in, , meditation,
and it was just, there was this kindof Daoist through line that I'm looking
back 20 years later and going, oh,that was, that was Dallas, because
I've been a Christian since I was 18.
And you know, really, Idon't talk a lot about.
(21:19):
Testimony of, of faith and everything.
But, but that's been mymain spiritual, , practice.
But I've been doing it in a Daoist way.
I love it.
I love it.
Yeah.
Okay, so I'm sitting here kind ofgiggling, but also embarrassed of myself.
I've been saying it wrongthroughout this whole podcast.
(21:40):
I've been saying, no, not do,and I even before we started
this podcast, I was thinking.
I think it's Dow, but it's spelledwith a T, so I'm gonna say Tao.
So anyway, I know that now that Ihave been saying that wrong, and you
know what, I'm owning that, right?
Yeah.
It kind of goes along with whatyou're talking about though, because
really like with everything, youcan see things two different ways.
(22:03):
So I'm, I'm just gonna, well, I'llgive you, if I knew what I was doing.
Yeah.
One of my, , one of my favoritelines is I'm not a huge Tim Ferriss
fan, but I've read all of his books.
Like I read, I didn't read Four HourWork Week, but I read Four Hour Body,
and I've, I've seen a lot of talks.
I do really like Tim.
, But he says Tau.
I mean, he's got a few things that,he's got a, there's a podcast old
(22:26):
that he did the, , tau of Seneca.
It's actually really good ifyou want to put it in the show.
It's, , because he's taking, he tooksomething to compare kind of, , stoicism.
'cause I think Seneca was a stoicism.
I'm not a super.
He was like the Tao, buthe called it the Tao.
And so people make that mistake and oneof my, . Inspirations is, so I'm wanna
make, so his name is Sola and he is veryparticular about how you pronounce it.
(22:51):
He's written a lot of, , books onDaoism and he's super, , particular
about how you pronounce things.
And I'm not, I love like yin and yang.
I mean, it's really yang,but is it really young?
Because most people say yang.
Exactly.
, And my mom, my mom who, , she wasone of the first people to read
my book in, . She wouldn't leaveme a review until she finished it.
(23:12):
I remember she calls it Tao, and soI'm not gonna correct my mom on that.
, Right.
Tomato, tomato, potato, potato.
Right.
Like, what, whatever it is.
But I wouldn't, I wanna respect thefact that it is Tao and . But the
concepts and, and the benefit ofit, it, it doesn't matter, right?
(23:33):
It really doesn't.
It's more the, , just this practice of,I think you said it, it's just being
right and, and, and embracing things.
And I, I, I thought, and I don'twanna use the word simple because
there's a lot to it, but it isalso just the simplicity of it all.
Right?
And, and how it's an accessiblepiece that we can be living with.
(23:56):
, Anybody can.
Yeah.
So for those of you, or for thosewho haven't read the book yet,
, which I highly recommend getting,and just go to dao of pizza.com
and that is TAO of pizza.com.
But what are three or four thingslike, what are some of the main
(24:16):
takeaways that someone's gonnaget when they read this book?
Or, or anything that you wanna shareto kind of give us a little bit
of a, a taste of this, this pizza.
So I, I provided a lot of opportunities,especially in the, in the first
four chapters, to look at thingsfrom a different perspective.
Because I think so many,, opportunities, there's this idea
(24:39):
of, , what we, what we know.
We know what we know, we don't know,but there's this huge part of the pie.
There's another pizza.
What we don't know, we don't know.
Right is the vaguest slice of the pie.
And so anytime we can look atthings from a different perspective,
like I think I have, , thefirst four chapters are lenses.
'cause I think I love theword lens of a good looks.
(24:59):
So I have a spiritual lens.
Emotional lens, a mental lens.
'cause these are all different ways thatare gifts that we can bring our gifts to
light or see things, , in a certain way.
And then the, the fourth chapteris the action lens, which really.
, I didn't put this quote in mybook because I think it's overused
and underdelivered, but be, youknow, Gandhi, the be the change.
(25:20):
Mm-hmm.
You wanna see?
Mm-hmm.
Oh yeah.
And so I tried to create somethingthat could help people generate that
result in their life of just being,what I like to say is being a resource.
I wanna be a resource to where I'm nottrying to do something or I just am.
I am.
The decision to, to becompassionate and look for win-win.
(25:41):
Like I just, I am, it's kind a weird wayto use language, but if you are something
people could just tell, you know what?
I even need to say something.
They don't, they might not get it.
, But, you know, be a place, be a spacewhere I'm not always giving advice.
If somebody comes to me with aproblem, I wanna be someone who could
just listen and not say anything.
I mean, sometimes that'sthe hardest action.
(26:03):
Of all is just to listen and be present.
And then there's some conversationsthat are really difficult.
It's tough to stay present inconversations where it gets, and
that's another reason that ofthere's more success in business
is that a lot of times things haveto get uncomfortable to get going.
Sure.
And so if you can be comfortablein those spaces and, , develop
(26:25):
yourself in a holistic way.
I mean, that was my other thing.
, Other than the lenses, Ithink we all have gifts.
That we can develop, , self-awarenessis, is really the one that is
the, the key to all of 'em.
, I told you between whether sense ofhumor should be first or second, but
probably the, , the sensation of yoursix senses is what I call something.
(26:46):
Mm-hmm.
But just like what it feels like.
Yeah, which is hard to describe,but that's a gift if, if you have a
gut feeling or something makes youuncomfortable or something makes
you feel great, doing somethinglike, wow, why am I so into this?
But just to be in tune with that.
, The other is a sense of humorbecause anytime you try to
go deeper is kind of funny.
And like the book, it is meant to be a lotof fun because again, I'm not an expert.
(27:08):
One of the reasons I feel.
If I can write a book is I've messedthis stuff up more than anyone.
, And especially now, even now that it'spublished, , that the things I'm up
against are it, it's kind of a new level.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And, but it's like, I asked for this, Iasked for more business opportunities.
I asked for more territory.
(27:29):
So, well, this is what that looks like.
And so how do you have peacewith that and, and be with it?
. So you gotta have a sense ofhumor and then imagination.
I mean, imagination is so huge.
If we can find ways, like the way youcreatively solve problems and get together
and collaborate is using your imagination.
So, so that's another gift.
, An inner voice, which is something I'vejust talked a little bit about, but
(27:52):
I think I've read, especially being awriter, the inner critic comes up Oh yeah.
Like at the state.
Imposter, I'm not good enough.
Or, I mean, well, that's a social script.
That's not you.
Mm-hmm.
And so your inner voice is something,you know, that's a gift that you have.
And so that's in the book of, ofhow do you develop that inner voice.
So, you know, like, okay, this is me.
This is coming from a place like the voicethat told me to, to study holistic health
(28:16):
instead of getting an MBA, , you know,maybe my net worth is half of what it
should be or what it would be as an MBA.
But who knows?
Maybe it's more or less, butdefinitely my peace level yes.
Is higher.
And then, , the last oneis choice and, and choice.
I put last, , just becausechoice happens in all those other
(28:37):
containers, choice happens inthe container of self-awareness.
Yeah.
What you feel like physically and likesome choices are just knee jerk reactions.
Like, oh, I'm scared.
I guess I'm going back to win it all.
Cost mode.
Yeah.
But to have the inner voice andall those other things, then you
actually are making a choice.
And so it makes your choice more powerful.
So, so those are the, the, the six gifts.
(28:58):
. And so four different lenses, sixgifts, and then just the stories of
how that's played it out in my life.
The amazing solutions I've seen thatwouldn't have happened on their own
if it wasn't for these amazing peoplewho surrounded me, uplifted me.
That that was the other bigthing about the book is like,
Hey, I didn't do this on my own.
So I wanted to highlight some of thepeople and organizations that that
(29:19):
really lifted my life up in ways I hadno idea and I had no idea at the time.
And it's humbling.
. And so that's kinda what thelast part of the book is about,
is just who are these people?
What are these stories?
You know, what were these changesin perspective that, , I'm
just really grateful mm-hmm.
That I'm not the, , 18-year-oldwin at all cost.
(29:40):
Right.
We're working in progress.
Right.
Yeah.
Moments of that.
Well, I, I just, I really do.
I'm, first of all, I'm so excitedfor you and I think this, this,
the, the book has so much For thoseof you listening, highly, highly
recommend you get it right away.
It's an easy read, but it's thisrecipe, you know, and I know we're
playing off of the whole pizza analogy.
(30:00):
Grab a slice.
But, but really it is, it's arecipe for better living, more
peaceful living, , you know, reallytuning into your gifts and your.
, Getting, you said the word intune a few times, intuition in
tune, like, like really justgetting in tune to who you are.
And, , so anyway, there's so many greatstories in there, so I'm excited for you.
(30:22):
Is there one last thing before we wrap up.
Is there anything, one last pieceof advice for people living or
people living, people listening.
Hopefully you're living too,, living with a great purpose.
, But no, give us something to onelast piece or a nugget, something
that we can go take this into our,the rest of our day this week.
Something that we can apply to ourlife as it relates to the Dao of pizza.
(30:46):
So the thing that's just comingup for me is, . Is my dad.
And, and I did put this in the, butone of the things my dad told me, , a
few years before he passed away is thatthe, , the purpose of life is to find
your gifts and the meaning of life is touse those gifts to serve other people.
And I think this book is, is an invitationand, . For people to engage with that.
(31:10):
And, and it's, , it's somethingthat's resonated with a lot of people.
I've had a lot of people call me and say,Hey, I've thought about simple, you know,
something similar to this, that like ourreal purpose and meaning is just to find
ways to use what we're good at and helpsome other community or business or crowd.
And I think, , I mean I think thatphilosophy or that approach, , can
(31:32):
bring a lot of healing to, to.
Business, personal, family, community,, then that's really the, the message.
Yeah, that is.
So, and I think you can have some funwith it, with my book too, because
I could try to inject a, a certainamount of humor to make it fun.
Oh, it's so good.
Well, mark, thank you somuch for being on the show.
I cannot wait to see all the greatthings that are gonna continue
(31:54):
to happen with the book with you.
, So thank you.
Thank you so much for being on the show.
Thank you.
The pleasure is all mine.
, I've only done a few of theseand, , you asked some great questions.
I, I appreciate, , I appreciateyour interest, your support
and, , this, this has been a great.
Great time.
Thank you.
You are so welcome.
All right everyone.
That is it for the Powerof Authority Spotlight.
(32:15):
But before we go, just a couple things.
Something Mark said that just reallyresonated with me, and I, I want you
to take this with you as you go too.
And, and that's the whole pointof being, and I, I was thinking as
he was talking, you know, we are.
Human beings.
We are not human doings.
We are not human.
You know, planners, we are human beings.
And so just that, that reminder thatjust be, we are created exactly the
(32:38):
way we're supposed to be and to, youknow, fully embrace who you are, your
gifts, your talents, overcoming that.
Imposter syndrome, which we all have.
But , I just really, really love it.
I highly recommend, , getting intouch with Mark reading his book.
, Definitely find him onLinkedIn, mark Fidelson.
, And then the book ofcourse is tao of pizza.com,
(32:58):
t ao , of pizza.com.
So that's it for the show.
We'll see you next time on thePower of Authority Spotlight.
Bye everyone.
Thanks so much for listening tothe Power of Authority Spotlight.
If you are a successful founder,entrepreneur, business owner, or
(33:20):
leader that's getting results andmaking a difference, and you'd like
to be on this program, please visitperformance publishing group.com/podcast
to apply.
That's performancepublishing group.com/podcast.
Also, if you got something out of this.
Interview, please share this episode.
Just do a quick screenshot withyour phone and text it to a
(33:42):
friend or post it on the socials.
If you know someone that would be a greatguest, tag them on social media to let
them know about the show and include thehashtag, the Power of Authority Spotlight.
I love seeing your postsand guest suggestions.
We are regularly putting out newepisodes and content, so make
sure you don't miss any episodesby subscribing your thumbs up.
(34:04):
Ratings and reviews go a longway to help promote the show.
And mean a lot to me and my team.
Wanna know more?
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or michelle prince.com
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Thanks so much for listening,and we'll see you next time.
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