Flow vs Fear: Why You’re NASTY in Practice but Tight in Games | THE HEAT CHECK 5

This episode is about the battle between flow and fear — and why one shows up in practice while the other takes over in games.
Today Robby Rowland dives deep into why so many athletes feel elite in practice but struggle to transfer that performance into games — and how obsession, fear, and overthinking can quietly rob you of flow..inevitably robbing you of the performance you know you’re capable of.
This is a raw, experience-driven breakdown of threat perception, discomfort, joy, and the practical tools that actually helped Robby navigate performance anxiety, the yips, and pressure moments at the highest levels of baseball.

⏱️ Episode Timestamps + Topics
 
00:00 – 02:14
Intro + why this episode matters 
• Feeling better in practice than games
• Nervous system, anticipation, and heaviness on game day

02:14 – 03:31
What this episode will cover
• Practice vs game performance
• Personal experiences
• Practical tools, not theory 

03:31 – 04:53
Why the task is the same — but performance isn’t
• Bullpens vs live games
• Brain response to environment
• Thoughts driving physical output 

04:53 – 05:56
Fight-or-flight vs flow
• Low expectation in practice
• Threat perception in games
• Why flow disappears under pressure 

05:56 – 06:44
Competing inside preparation
• Live ABs vs bullpens
• Putting something on the line
• Creating stakes without overdoing volume 

06:44 – 07:50
The danger of comfort-seeking
• Avoiding discomfort during the work week
• Easy catch play, minimal effort habits
• Why this backfires on game day 

07:50 – 08:38
Hiding mental struggle
• Fear of being exposed
• Avoiding attention-demanding situations
• Insecurity living in the shadows 

08:38 – 09:46
Personal identification
• No single solution fits everyone
• Trial, error, and ownership
• Finding what actually works for you
 
09:46 – 10:46
Reigniting the love for throwing
• Joy as a performance multiplier
• Why constant discomfort isn’t always the answer •
Fake it till you make it — carefully 

10:46 – 11:58
The double-edged sword of discomfort
• Too much grind kills joy
• When pushing harder stops working
• Knowing when to shift gears 

11:58 – 13:04
Breaking out of mechanical obsession
• Every throw becoming “pitching”
• Overthinking destroying flow
• Why variety and play matter 

13:04 – 14:27
Flow vs mechanics overload
• Feeling 800 things = robotic movement
• Why elite performance feels effortless
• Letting the body do what it knows 

14:27 – 15:28
How Robby worked through the yips
• Long toss and pull-downs
• Athletic throws over mechanical cues
• Freedom before control 

15:28 – 16:27
Individual solutions matter
• Long toss helped Robby — not everyone
• One-size-fits-all thinking is flawed
• The beauty of individualized development 

16:27 – 17:48
Movement, variability, and exploration
• Target-based long toss
• Allowing failure without judgment
• Restoring athletic intent 

17:48 – 19:05
Pre-throw movement as a reset
• Sprint-in-place throws
• Rhythm, motion, and flow
• Removing space for overthinking 

19:05 – 20:17
Pressure, shame, and expectations
• Fear of missing your partner
• Caring too much about perception
• When throwing with others becomes heavy 

20:17 – 21:30
Throwing alone to heal
• Going to the park solo
• Rediscovering joy
• Throwing without judgment 

21:30 – 22:51
Pressure never fully disappears
• Caribbean Series story
• Lingering thoughts under stress
• Why you need anchors to return to 

22:51 – 23:30
Anchors and freedom tools
• Sprint-in-place throws
• Athletic intent resets
• Regaining flow mid-chaos

🎯 Core Takeaways
• Practice and games feel different because your brain treats them differently
• Flow dies when fear and overthinking take over
• Comfort-seeking during preparation sabotages competition
• Mechanics without movement kill athleticism
• Joy and freedom are pe

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yo, what a duzier Booi Robbie ro heat check episode five.
All right, So if you ever felt better in practice
than in games or lost your flow trying to fix yourself, dude,
like I know the feeling. This is gonna be a
really really cool episode for a lot of individuals that

(00:21):
reach out to me specifically and ask like, why do
I perform so much better in practice.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Or why do I.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Feel so much better in practice? Like that was me, dude,
as a player, I swear like as a starter specifically,
the start day for me was the day where I didn't.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Feel my best.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Unfortunately, there was times where like, honestly, dude, my last
full season twenty twenty two, there was a couple times
where I started on like three days rest, and those
were the days where I kid you not, I just
felt the best, like I felt light. For me to
feel good as a pitcher, I always needed to feel
like light and I could move really easy. And the

(01:06):
times where I didn't feel good in games, like on
day number five start day, it felt like I was
wearing dang cinderblocks as cleats, felt like the ball.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Was nine ounces.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
I don't know if anyone else is like that, but
that was a theme throughout the course of my career,
just like not feeling great when it came down to
the day that I was pitching, and that was a starter.
So like Bullpen, I think that's another testament to why
I just was a better bullpen pitcher throughout my career
was because you know, it's like my nervous system and
brain couldn't prepare for the outing, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
But if you're anything like that, dude, this episode is
going to be quality for you. Guys.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
I'm going to dive into the entire practice verse game
performance concept, dig deep into some personal experiences, and try
to do the best that I can with giving you
some practical things. You know, again, I know there's a
lot of individuals that are similar to me within the

(02:04):
obsession over like performance and trying so hard to perform good,
which then therefore kind of gets you in quicksand right like,
the harder you try, the deeper you seek. So yeah,
this will be good if you guys again once again
reach out to me with any particular questions, and honestly,

(02:25):
I would love to listen to your guys' take on
what I should potentially talk about. Also, real quick before
we get into the episode. I did just film a
long form YouTube edit, which was swag. I'm been crushing
short form stuff, dude, So the long form was an
absolute beast to tackle. But it was a top ten
pictures gift guide for you guys this holiday season, for

(02:46):
anyone that's looking to get their picture in their life
some gifts, and so I put together a list of
top ten products that I would recommend for development and
overall joy over the art of throwing a baseball. You
can check that out. I'll throw the link up in
the old show notes Johnson. Also, the show notes will
still include the timestamps of which topic we're touching on

(03:11):
throughout the podcast. I think Apple Podcasts does that now.
It's pretty cool. Podcasting has evolved since I first started
back in nineteen oh five when I was taking BP
with Babe ruth A.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Just kidding.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
All right, practice first games, let's get into it. Hope
you guys enjoy much love, happy holidays, God bless see you.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
I want to discuss.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Like performance within practice and within games. Me personally being
someone that at certain times in my career and in
my journey, I would say that like practice performance was
just drastically better than game performance. I know there's a

(04:00):
lot of people like that because I get a lot
of questions about like, for example, pitchers and when they
throw a bullpen, they could light it up right like boom,
breaking balls for strikes, fastball command, different quadrants, spot bop, bop,
and then they get into a game and it's.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Just totally not like that.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Well, the task is the same, right, So for anyone
struggling with that, I think they all can realize, right,
they can realize that the task itself is the same,
like no, dah, doesn't take a rocket science to realize that.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
But there's also this fine.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Line of like not making it to where it seems
the most different thing because your body, I think the
way your body responds to the environment based on your
thoughts and the way your brain operates is the thing
that's drastically different.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Right.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Your brain is in a constant like fight or flight state, right,
So in practice it's receiving it as low expectation. Right,
there's nothing really on the line, and there's comfort within that.
So everything just kind of happens organically and naturally and
you can just flow right now. Flip side of that
coin is the game performance where all of a sudden,

(05:15):
your brain perceives this and monitors this as a completely
different threat that involves so many different variables. Right now,
there's something on the line, there is competition, someone's trying
to freaking beat you, right, So I think.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
The easiest, let's say, solution.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Is to just get uncomfortable within your preparation.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Right. That's where I think if I could do my.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
At certain points in my career, if I could do
it all over again, I would literally never throw bullpens
without people stepping in the box. Or I would actually
just take my bullpen days and just do live abs.
I think that is the most beneficial tool. That was
hard to say beneficial tool for a picture because a

(06:05):
I believe in like managing the workload, right, like your
your brain is just is just going to naturally get
into a different set of gears when there's something on
the line, competition and ooh, before I forget, I actually
want to speak on that too. If you don't want
if you want to like get away from not like

(06:27):
blowing it out on your bullpen. De if you're a
picture like you don't need to do live abs, but
put something on the line right, like, make yourself compete,
even if it's like the littlest thing like a little
side bet or something like if I don't do X,
Y and Z, I have to there's a punishment involved,
right like something And this is what I didn't realize
in my career, because I honestly would get into certain points,

(06:50):
especially when I really struggled mentally.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Was where I was like, I.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Was just seeking comfort within my work day because of
how discomfortable.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
That's not the right word, rob, Oh my gosh. I
didn't go to.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
College because of how uncomfortable game day was. Right, So
it's like that one day out of five, I'm a
starting pitcher, so uncomfortable, right Like, it almost felt like
it was a full week's worth of discomfort, that's the
right word. There we go, So throughout my workday, my
brain was just seeking comfort, dude, like nice and easy

(07:23):
catch plays, you know, ninety feet, hit your partner in
the chest, minimal effort. So the where I go with
it is is like, how do we prepare to where
we can just naturally become a little bit more familiar
with that sense of discomfort. And that's going to look

(07:44):
differently for everybody, right I think the thing that and again,
when I talk about this, I just kind of speak
from personal experience.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
So I think the thing that.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Really kind of gave me the hard time was that
I didn't really want people to know that I was
struggling mentally, so I would shy away from a lot
of like things that that demanded attention, whether it be
like you know, putting something on the line in my bullpens,
making a bet with somebody about like, you know, now
there's someone online, or like facing hitters or whatever the

(08:12):
case may be. Like I didn't want people to know,
so I kind of like hit it in the shadows, right,
didn't give it the proper attention.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
I guess that it deserved. But that was like that
was the issue, right because of.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
This underlying issue that I had with you know, freaking
this insecurity basically. And what I didn't realize at the
time was like, bro, it's it's okay. Doesn't make you
like any less of a human, right, it makes you
more human than anything. Yeah, you're you know, you're an athlete,

(08:45):
and maybe it's it feels better to be.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Good, you know, But like that's just the reality of things.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
So when I talk about these you Guys got to
remember too that I'm speaking directly from personal experience, and
I'm speaking directly from personal experience that I believe either
helped or didn't help me. Now, with that being said,
it doesn't mean that these things are going to be
like the one thing or the two things that are
going to click for you.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Right.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
The biggest thing that I can encourage anyone listening to
this that is struggling with something similar is like a
lot of it, dude, is personal identification. Right, Like you
got to find out on your own. You got to
throw up it, throw stuff up against the walls if
it sticks. Because on the flip side of the coin
being like competing and gaining comfort within the discomfort. On

(09:34):
the flip side of that, I do believe in setting side,
setting aside time where you can essentially regain that love
for throwing, right, because that's like the most important thing, dude.
When I was at my best in my career, and
this is this probably goes without saying, but when I

(09:54):
was at my very best, dude, my mind longed for throwing.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Like I look forward to it. Bro. It was like
the first thing that I thought about in the morning was.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Like, oh, dude, I get to throw today, I get
to pitch today, I get to compete today, Right, And
that's that's an easy state to be in mentally when
like things are going good, right and you feel good physically.
But I also believe that you can you can essentially
like easily be manipulated. You can manipulate yourself, right in
the sense of like fake it till you make it.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
I kind of do believe in that.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Right where you're like, all right, if I'm if I'm
not looking forward to it, or if it's like the
one thing that's dreading me, it's giving me constant negative energy,
then how do you regain that You're probably not going
to be able to regain that love by continuously putting
yourself in super uncomfortable environments, Right, So it is kind
of your responsibility to put yourself in environments that can

(10:52):
reshape and regrow that love because I don't I don't believe,
and I've seen it in a you guys throughout the
course of my career that guys that like don't necessarily
love it, but do good in it, and that gives
them somewhat of a I don't really care fit mentality,
which is great, But for the mass majority of dudes,

(11:15):
I really don't think you can have success in this
game that is built on failure if you don't love it,
you know, because it's just like the second you fail, dude,
your brain's going to be like, Nope, don't need.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
It, skidattle, see you later.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
But I can also see it on the flip side,
where it's like if I don't care, right, if I
don't care how I do, if I don't care what
other people think of me because of my performance, then
probably going to free myself up a lot mentally and
physically to be at my best.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Right. Okay, So I'm going back and forth. What are
the practical things?

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Practical things on your response is your responsibility because people
are going to constantly give you what they think is right,
and I think more oftentimes than not, they're going to
see it from the side of like you just need
to increase the reps of discomfort. And that's where that's
where I think it's kind of a double edged sword
because although I understand the point of that, and like

(12:13):
I said, it was the first thing that I mentioned
in terms of what you need to do, but I
think there's at a certain point for an athlete, because
this is where I was at. That's that's going to
be like beating a dead horse, you know, like it's
they's just not going to really do much for you.
For me, and personalities like myself that were that were

(12:35):
really good because of the joy that it brought. Those
you need to you need to reignite that somehow. And
the more that I look back in my career and
the more that I I wish I could have maybe
implemented some things like taking ground balls, maybe taking like
BP a little bit more serious, where not not me

(12:58):
taking batting practice, but me shagging in the outfield and
like fielding a ball and challenging myself to like field
it and throw. Because here's the other thing. This is
like the practical example of what was happening too. Every
time that I touched a baseball and every time that
I threw it was freaking the pitching motion right, It
was methodical, dude.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
It was like long drawn out.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
My mind was scouring seven hundred and forty eight thousand
different fields, right, Like that's going to naturally take the
joy out of it, dude, Like you know, when you're
constantly mentally seeking these things.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Like you're there's no room for flow.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Remember, like the throw any sport, right, when we talk
about the when we talk about like ultimate freaking elite
level performance, it's flow, dude. Right, It's like you almost
can't even remember it because it's just flow.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
And that's when you're at your best.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Right, So if you take your practice and you're trying
to feel eight hundred different things, you're restricting your ability
to get into flow. Right, You're leg lifting, you're loading,
You're feeling all this separation. You're feeling the freaking hand
drop from the glove, You're feeling the load, you're feeling
the head tilt back, you're feeling the arm come back,
you're feeling the hand come up. Right, Like, you're naturally

(14:13):
not going to be able to flow, dude, So you're
naturally going to be freaking moving like a robot, you know.
And and those are the things that the more you
do them, the more that becomes your throw, and the
more that becomes your throw, the.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
More that you become fricked up. Right, So it's easier.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
It's it's easy for me to sit here or should
I say lay here, sweating in this sausage blanket. What
the sauna, blanket and uh and say these things. It's
a totally different thing to like be there and and
do these things practically. But I really do believe that
your brain body need repetitions where it's flow, dude.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Like that's why I.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Believe wholeheartedly in pictures like getting away from the feelings
of the throw motion that is pitching right, like the
leg lifting, like.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
The most success that I had.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
And essentially when people ask me, like how I got
rid of the yips, was not even something like I
guess it was practically, but it was just like I'm
getting back to long tossing and trying to throw the
ball as far as I can and having fun doing that, right,
Like long tossing and pull downs for me was I
think something that I didn't realize when I was bad,
was like something that I needed right, Like I knew

(15:29):
it was something that I used at certain points in
my career. And by certain points, I mean a lot
of points, Like that's what my dad basically had me
doing ever since I could throw a baseball, was like
throwing it far, throwing it long, throwing it hard, and
I just thought it was another tool that I didn't
necessarily need. Because I was in an organization that didn't
really want that, right. They thought it was bad for mechanics.

(15:50):
They thought you needed to not deviate from your throwing motion.
And that's the single thing that I know f me
and a lot of other people up now, I'll say
that in the same breath that it fixed a lot
of people too, which is the beauty, right, the absolute
beauty of the throw because like everyone can use a
different input, everyone needs kind of something different to be

(16:14):
their best version of themselves, right, And I just know
again that's why I reiterate all the time where it's like, hey,
this is me, this is my personal experience, right, like
not saying this is right or wrong, but I know
for a fact just gone just having been over a
decade in professional baseball, Like I've met so many individuals
that talk to me about the same struggle. So the

(16:38):
long tossing dude, the pull downs, like the freeing up,
just throwing like an athlete man, that it's not something
that you just do one day and you got to
expect to be like, oh, I'm back right, Like it's
a constant. You're just a byproduct of the repetitions and
the stimulus you give your body over and over again. Right,
So if the stimulus you're giving your body is methodical,

(16:59):
robotic and lethargic, then that's.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
What you're gonna be, dude. That's just that's just facts.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
Now, some people maybe can get away with that, some
people maybe move better with that, and some people are
able to produce power that way and consistency and repeatability
and all these things.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
But not for me.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
I needed movement, I needed deviation, I needed variability, and
I and at that same time do I needed like
the challenge of like, all right, I'm not just gonna
throw far, dude, I'm gonna like there's there's a partner there, right.
And I think I really regained and and my got
my form back when I actually like challenge myself with
target practice, like like locating the long toss throw, like

(17:36):
locating a pull down, but also doing it in an environment.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
That allowed for failure and exploration.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
I think that's the big thing, because you get into
those mindsets sometimes, dude, where you're so fixated on not failing. Right,
there's someone watching you, you care about that person's opinion
about you. You're a little you're probably a little bit
in an insecure mindset, so you're super fricking hyper aware
of it, you know, and everyone just listening to this
maybe nodding their head right now, right, and the first

(18:04):
thing that comes to your mind is fricking threat, dude,
Like break pedal, break pedal, dude, right, And it's so
funny because that's where the mistake happens. Flow happens from
not caring. Flow happens from like not thinking right. Flow
happens from just I would say, like movement over thought,
and if you have practical movements that you can implement.

(18:26):
And that's why I always say, like when people say
they struggle with catchplay yips early in the catch play
right partner thirty forty fifty feet away, that's their struggle.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
It's like, dude, move right.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
The more pre throw movement that you have, the more
flow that you can maybe get right, more consistency and
rhythmic movements. And I think that's practically another one that
you can use, even using that same practical implementation before
like bullpens right, like like a high knees, high knee
to throw something where you're like pumping your feet, you're

(18:59):
pumping your arm arms, you're moving and covering a lot
of space in a in a singular spot, you know,
I I and again my personal opinion, I just think
the body does. When the body performs a lot of
pre throw movement, it makes it really hard for the
brain to get involved within that throw. Sprint in place
to throws, I think, is the number one thing that

(19:21):
I would use for guys that are struggling with the yips,
because when you sprint, your main objective, your main focus
is how can I move as fast as I can
in this singular spot? How can I move through space
a little bit? How can I move through space as
fast as I humanly can until it comes time to throw.

(19:41):
So when you do that, when you when you have
this physical movement right, that allows no space, no time
for prefrontal cortex thought patterns to develop. I got nerdy
on you guys there.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Huh. You didn't know I was capable of that. You're welcome.
So so those are some of the practical things.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
I think, the distance and throwing, the freedom that that creates,
right like putting yourself in environments and that induced that freedom.
But at the same time, like I know, I have
no shame in admitting this, but there were times where
I was like, I physically can't throw with a partner
right now, Like I find no joy out of that
because of this expectation that I have.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
I have to hit my partner in the chest, and
I feel so bad.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
I feel so guilty, I feel so shameful, and I
feel like such a lesser frickin human being because I
can't hit my stupid freaking partner in the chest. And
I care so much about what he thinks of me,
and so much about what every other person that's watching
me thinks about me, that I need to just stop.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Grab a bucket of balls.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
There was one year where I would like snag a
ball a day, and VP I would snag a ball
a day. I finally got it, like a duffel bag
worth of baseballs. And I'm talking in season when we
we'd have like consistent off days and I would go
to a park by myself, dude, and I would just
throw because it was like, Ah, this is fun, dude,
this is freeing, Like, oh, this is why I love
this game, right, like the frickin' upk of Like I

(21:02):
don't care about anyone else's opinion, Like I'm okay, I'm
comfortable in my skin. Like this is fun, this is joyful,
and it's crazy how much that just influences your overall
joy right, Like it's so much easier said than done
to be in the time of which you're struggling and
just be like, hey, don't think what right, Like, oh okay,

(21:24):
that's like in Little League, dude, when freaking little Timmy's
parents are just like, hey, throw a strike, throw strikes, right, Like,
come on, what are we doing?

Speaker 2 (21:32):
What are we doing?

Speaker 1 (21:33):
It's not that simple, but but I think none of
this stuff is simple, right, Like that's why only a
select few are able to do it at the highest level, right,
And that's probably why a select few that you see
at the highest level that could say, like, dang, do
I went through this mental battle, you know what I mean? Like,
you just don't really hear that all that often of

(21:55):
people coming back from that because it takes a toll, brother,
And I hate to say it, dude, but it's something
that's kind of always lingering. Like even when I was
at my best, and this is after like I had
gone through all these mental issues, like it would still
be there. I remember, specifically in winter Ball, in the
biggest moment of probably my career freaking Caribbean Series Championship game, dude.

(22:17):
I was the eighth inning setup guy, and I remember
throwing like we had a big rally in the bottom
of the eighth, sorry bottom seven. Now I was going
to pitch the top of the eighth and we had
a big rally. So I ended up having to throw
a lot of like warm up pitches just to stay loose,
right because I had the next inning. And I remember

(22:38):
like everything was fine, everything was money. And then I
started throwing these throws just to throw, because like I
was already warm, but like our inning was still going,
and I remember just throwing these throws just to throw,
just to stay warm, and they'd be like not anywhere
freaking close, and I started panicking. And then that's when
those those lingering thoughts will creep in, like oh shoot,
what if I can't I go out there and I

(22:58):
can't freaking throw strike?

Speaker 2 (23:00):
What if? You know?

Speaker 1 (23:02):
And those things happen, dude, And that's why I think
it's so important to have specific things right that you
can always revert back to, like like the sprinting place
to throw, the athletic throw. I've been a guy that
would like stop my bullpen sometimes and throw applios into
the wall just to regain the feeling of freedom.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
You know, maybe you leaving all right, all.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Right, guys, Much love as always the Robbie Roach Show
dot com slash ask if you want to reach out
and ask any questions that I could talk about in
a future episode. Much love, God bless until next time
your boys out.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
So yeah,