June 10, 2025 • 44 mins
This week Sarah tells us about another wildt old timey case; the Derby Poisoner.
Was she a serial killer, a Black Widow, or an Angel of Death or a little of all three? Let us know your thoughts!
Don't forget to like, rate/ review, and share your favorite Shit Show!
Was she a serial killer, a Black Widow, or an Angel of Death or a little of all three? Let us know your thoughts!
Don't forget to like, rate/ review, and share your favorite Shit Show!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, I'm Tealsa and I'm Sarah.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to The Shit Show a half.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
That's true crime podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And the show is shitty.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hello, Hello to all of our new listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Appreciate your support.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yeah, like our downloads are up, it's great. Yeah, we enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I really enjoy looking at the analytics to see where
people are listening from.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
It's like, it's my favorite thing now it is. Yeah, yeah,
well it's my favorite thing when you do it, because yeah,
Sarah doesn't do it.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I do it. But like yesterday, I'm like, oh, somebody
from Michigan listen to too many episodes, but thank you. Yes,
and one person in one person listened from Detroit, and
I was like, I'm assuming that's Eminem.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Absolutely we like we're gonna pop off at any moment.
But he only listened to one, so well, he didn't listen.
He's a busy man. He's had a spaghetti chapter on,
like a music career, a grandkid, a grand kid, like
he you know, he's busy.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Not that I know everything about his life. That's really weird.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Not be at all. Anyway, Lisa's your biggest fan. So
what's new?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Nothing's new? Why what's new with you?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Honestly, I don't even know. So this is this week's
my week to do a case, and I should you not.
I probably read through at least a million cases, and
then some of them are like, oh, this is interesting information,
Oh this is interesting too close to what's going on
in our real lives right now. Like it literally is
(01:28):
just a cycle of like too close to home, enough information?
What the fuck am I doing here? So? Yeah, so
send us a case case question. Yeah, preferably ones that
have like all of the information easily accessible because we
don't read books.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
I okay, so I can say this. I'm moving some
stuff around and Sarah helped. Sarah and her husband came,
our biggest fan came and helped move some stuff, which
was awesome. And when we're moving stuff, there's this book
in my living room and I was like, you see
that book right there. I bought that thinking I would
read it about a case because I tried looking this
case up and I wanted to cover it, but there
(02:04):
wasn't a ton of information online. You'd have to go
through like news, you know, old newspapers, and we don't
have newspapers dot com or anything like that. And so
I was like I'll just buy that book, and I'll
fucking read the book. I have never even opened it once.
It's been in my living room for months because I
just don't have time right now. But also I don't
think i've I haven't had time to read since.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I just though the thought of sitting like, I think
I do have some sort of adio. Well, not surprising,
I definitely have some sort of neurodivergence, because like, anytime
I sit down, like with a book or something, I'm
like either zoning out, passing out because since falling asleep,
or like it's just I have to read the same
sentence twenty times because my brain just cannot compute.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
They can listen to like books and stuff while I'm
doing things or driving kids to practice or whatever, but
sitting down and reading a book is just not a
thing that I have time for. I thought that I
would for some reason, so I bought that someday. Maybe
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, if I'm listening like I can and absolutely like.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Although sometimes when I'm listening stuff, I don't out and
don't even.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Same, so I'm not fine. I like, It's true, i
I'm sometimes fine. Well, well I'm sometimes fine that's fair.
Do we have anything else? I feel like there was
something else we like, we're like, we need to say this,
and I don't remember what it was.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I think it would just welcome to the new listener.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, before we start, though, or before I start, I
don't know. Something's happening here. Hey, we're gonna go ahead
and hand mention our social medias because we keep forgetting
to do that. And so you can find us on
Facebook at The shit Show, a true crime podcast. You
can find us on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok YouTube at the
Shit Show TCP. Can also send us case suggestions at
shit Show TCP at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
You can, or you should subscribe and review us on
Apple Podcasts, like a nice five star review and leave
something you like about us there and like can comment
on Spotify. Just helps us get pushed out to more
people so more people can hear our fucking weird bullshit.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Okay, Hi, Hello, there's there's gonna be a trigger warning
on this one. There is mention of child death, and
Sarah was like.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Oh, Tills is already kind of sad, right now, let's
talk about a child death.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
When I say when I say, I read through like
a hundred cases. I'm not even exaggerating.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I understand. Yeah, I understand that.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
And I didn't realize there was a child death when
I already started, like you were in too deep. Yeah,
I skimmed it, and I'm like, Okay, this seems up.
Sarah's Sally, let's do this.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
And I'm already deciding what's happening in this case.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Okay, So yeah, so just there's your warning for that.
So I am going to tell you about the Derby poisoner.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
That's exactly where I thought this was going when he
said this seems like a staircase.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I didn't even realize it when I picked it. Honestly,
I'm like, oh, this is gonna I'm just.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Gonna just tell us and just tell us that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Lydia Dansbury was born on Christmas Eve, eighteen twenty four
in New.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Jersey, just in the state of New Jersey.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
One article set up specific place, and I just I
had already typed it out and I didn't go back
to put it in. So it started with.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
A bee the beach.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
No, I don't know, I can't even my brain's not
even yeah, what years of eighteen twenty four?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Okay, well, old old.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Timey, very old timey, very sarah yep. So one article
said that her parents were alcoholics, but I didn't really
see that anywhere else. So again, this is old timey
kind of choose whether they were or not.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Her parents were alcoholics, but maybe not.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, okay, so her parents were possibly alcoholics, but I
mean that's very much of the time.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So I say it's at the time. But I don't
know if that was just generalizing like everyone, but I.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Feel like the amount of cases that we've covered, it
seems like, yeah, and especially old timey, like the dad
is usually an alcoholics, so like because it was probably
like a penny for a beer back then, I don't
even know. Okay. So unfortunately, like most old time cases,
like Lydia's mother died a year after she was born,
leaving her orphaned.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Where did her dad go?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I am unsure where her father.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Was, but he went to the bar and left the
baby at the orphanage.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
So she was orphaned, but she didn't end up in
an orphanage. Her uncle took her in. So I did
see like one article that I happened upon at the
very end of finishing up this case that said that
her father remarried and she chose to go live with
a uncle. But again, I only saw that in one place,
so I'm not but tyly sure, but right exactly because
that was one year old. That's why I didn't put
(06:22):
it in and choose that. Yeah, that's why I'm like,
that doesn't seem correct because infant. Yeah, okay, So Lydia
was simply taken in by John clay Gay, an uncle
who was a farmer.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
It was said that Lydia was a pretty charming, quite
clever young lady. When she was sixteen years old, she
started working as a tailor, and around the same time,
Lydia met a man named Edward Struck through her Methodist church.
Edward was a widow with two children.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
He was looking for someone to watch those kids.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yes, so, by all accounts, Lydia was I don't know
why I did this in two different places. She was
a you know, beautiful, sociable woman with you know that
was devout to her faith. And it's meeting her future
husband at church. Eighteen forty one, at the age of seventeen,
Lydia married Edward and the couple moved to New York City,
(07:18):
where Edward became a police officer in the suburb of Yorkville.
I could not, for the life of me figure out
how old Edward was when they got married.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Probably much older, but clearly that's what I'm picturing.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yeah, clearly old enough because he had already been previously
married and had two kids with the previous wife that
passed away. Did not see why or how she passed away,
but tuberculosis, tuberculosis childbirth. Since they were talking about tuberculous typhoid.
Pick one of old timmy deaths. Put it on your
Bengal card because who knows. So over the next seven years,
(07:51):
Lydia and Edward would go on to have six or
eight children. Again, depending on which article you wanted to go.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
With, I'm going to say they had six children together
plus is two previous one that's equals eight. Yes, that's math.
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yes, So that's kind of how I took it, you know,
reading trying to like piece of tat.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Okay, we're not doing video today because I forgot my
computer today. I and you know, it's what, it's fine whatever.
But Sarah is doing all kinds of gestures like she's
gathering the information from like a berry Tree or something,
and that's my brain.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
It's like I'm picking it from my brain, like I
need to say this information. Yeah, of all days, ten
not have video. It's when I'm like flailing my hands
because I don't know what to do because the people
want to see you flailing your hands, all right, So
either way, too fucking many.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Kids, too fucking many kids?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Six to eight children? How do you have the time
or the energy? Have you seen I'm going on a
site in Genter real quick on TikTok the mom who
has twelve kids or she's getting ready to have the twelve.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I think I saw somebody talking about like her gender
reveal for that. But yeah, and I was like this,
first of all, this video is too long and I
don't have the attention span. I have never seen or
heard of this before, so I just skipped it.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I it's all over mine and it's well not her video,
but like the people like dissecting her video and being like,
I feel so sorry for her older kids because they
are now being forced into being parents. So it's I
don't know, that's how we's That is how I feel
like when people have a fuck ton of kids because
there's not there's not enough time in the day for
you to be able to possibly spend the correct amount
(09:28):
of time with each child, you know what I mean. Yeah,
So when I say two fucking many, it's for reasons
like that, because like, how do you, like, how do
you do it right?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I don't know. And if they're all like close in age,
I guess is what I'm picturing. It's like when I
have a bunch of kids at my house and they'll
just entertain each other. Yeah, like after three or four,
like they just travel in a pack.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
They I think the adrange for the TikTok Lady was
like it was early teens to like still having an infant.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Well, when you have twelve of them, it has to
be like time wise, unless you got whole bunch of
twins or something.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I think they did have some one set of twins.
I don't know. I didn't go deep diving into it,
but I just fully agree with the people who are like,
there's no way you have enough time and the day
to like, well, that's what the duggers did right, right, Well, yeah,
because like now your older kids are being forced and
they were like paired of with a younger kid to
take care of her something.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I feel like, I remember I didn't watch the dugger thing.
I just know, Yeah, for some reason, I think I
know that.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
I think I watched a documentary on them.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Maybe that after like they I don't know fell from
I know nothing, all right, that's my.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Idea that I could continue to go on for no
reason that I just randomly added this fun fact in
as well. At least two articles called Lydia a sturdy
but attractive housewife.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I don't know if that's offensive or not.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
I feel like it is because she's not a large
person from pictures that I, you know, founded like she
wasn't a large diversity.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
What does that mean? Like white hips, wide shoulders.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Maybe i'd be fuck her hips. Gotta be sturdy with
twelve eight six kids. That Genny was okay, dirty. I
just had to add that in because I knew you
would love it.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I would self reflect a little.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Shut up, all right. So, nonetheless, life seemed to be
going well for the Strucks until eighteen sixty three, when
Edward lost his job on the police force due to
what witnesses described as cowardice when Edward was responding to
a robbery. Oh so, one article said that his active
cowardice resulted in the murder of a detective. Okay, so
(11:26):
Edward was reprimanded, disgraced, and then fired because your job
as a police officer officer is to like stop the robbery,
and I'm from what I read, you just let it
into do anything. Yeah, Okay, he had the flight freight
or feet free freeze and.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
He just froze.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I guess. Okay, So, which in turn sent Edward into
a deep drunken depression, which again in turn started to
take a toll in the family.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well, just losing your job alone would take a toll
in the family because you've got a bill children that
all want to eat three meals a day, and yeah,
instead of feeding them, you're drinking and being depressed. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And remember Lydia was housewife, so like she doesn't bring
in any right, and she has six to eight kids
to take care of her, So that obviously takes a
toll in the family. And I think one article did
say that he did kind of attempt to try to
find work, but it was more like he was in
a drunken stupor because he was depressed about being disgraced.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Hard to find work when you're trashed, and when you're
a disgraced police officer, yeah, what job are you're gonna?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, so I'm sure that probably played a pretty big role.
So just a few months after the couple's youngest was
born in eighteen sixty four, Edward became sick and sadly,
despite seeking medical at tension for his severe vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhea,
and convulsions, Edwards succumb to the swift and aggressive sickness
(12:59):
that he had been stricken.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
He needs some pepto bismol.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I wonder if that came out obviously, not just thinking
about like the d I think, yeah, yeah, it's not good.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
That always made me throw up, like the peptobismal Like
I couldn't. I couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I haven't had pepto bismol probably since I was no.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I mean as a child, I could not. And I
was like, I'd rather just throw up regular stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I can't get Connor to take it either.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
He's gross.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
He also would just rather have a stomachache can throw
up than yeah, to thepto, which I don't blame him. Okay, So,
so doctors were perplexed by Edward's sudden death, but they
blamed it on consumption, Okay, tuberculosis.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
How did I know we were going to talk about
tuberculosis just the time.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
But they still requested an official investigation just because of
how quickly you know, he'd become sick and passed.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So you're telling me that in eighteen sixty four, right, Yes,
did a more thorough investigation than they did for my
guy last week, Glenn, who died of a very quick,
sudden flew death.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I know they did not, because Lydia had her husband
buried expeditiously, and authorities didn't want to intrude on the
family's brief so they left it at that.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, damn right, I'm sorry she hadn't buried instead of cremated.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
I mean, yeah, same, But I think it was a.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
How quick can we do this?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Well? And also like she's got six to eight kids
still at home that she's now the sole provider for
as a housewife, so she didn't have time to grieve
her husband's deaf from tuberculosis.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Tuberculus was getting people at that time.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, yeah, so it was rough on rats, But I
already made the graphic for this that I can't wait
to show you all.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
So one article had noted that Lydia's eldest son, John
had moved out prior to the loss, and that her
daughter Josephine had passed years earlier from a mysterious illness.
So Lydia was unfortunately no stranger with deaf. Six weeks
after Edward's death, three of Lydia's children fell ill and
sudden and sadly succumb to their illness typhoid the fuck
(14:59):
out of my pretty serious. All right, hold on, we'll
get there, Okay, okay. So, being in the era of
high mortality rates and at the time when a single
illness could wipe out an entire family, there were no
suspicions raised. After losing her husband and three of her children.
A doctor saw Lydia grieving and struggling, so they took
pity on her and gave her work as a nurse,
which just.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Well, you know what, being a mom of a billion
kids like you can do some nursing stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Okay, Not to sound what's.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
The word I'm not saying I could do. I could
be a nurse. I'm saying, like, I don't know, describe that.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I shut off. Insensitive, Not to sound insensitive. But she's
had at least five people already died near her.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yes, that's true, but I mean that doctor that saw
that doesn't know that necessarily, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, well, I was just saying based off your comment
of like, being a mom of a fuck ten of kids,
you do you do learn a lot, like I don't
know how many times when our kids were younger, and
we just like go back and forth to like, does
this sound like, can't butt in mouth help me? Because
your kids had it before, it had gotten it before. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
You were like, Hi, you're five minutes older as a mother,
can you tell me what this looks like in your kids?
And I was like, sorry, dude, that is hand, foot
and mouth wash, all the toys.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Literally the worst. And his wasn't even that bad.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
No, Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So the following year, in eighteen sixty five, at Lee,
three more of Lydia's children would become sick and die again.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Due to their that's like all of them, correct.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So the death certificates for all six children listed the
cause of death as typhoid fever. I'm literally just like hitting, well, it's.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Not funny, No, it's funny that I guessed it. I
was just thinking like, Okay, if all of your kids
are sick in that time period, what's something that is
well known that's like sweeping through right in killing families?
Which typhoid type one and tuberculosis.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, we're definitely both way up there.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
So does someone die of dysentery in this episode?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Surprisingly no, so Mary Ann, Edward, William, George, and Eliza
and even baby Lydia all had to come to their sickness.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Baby Lydia, Yeah, they ran.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Out of names for Yeah, when you got eight kids,
names are herd to come by. But yeah, they I
guess named the baby after her, Okay, which we all
know how I feel that. Yeah, So, leaving Lydia all
alone as a widow and bereaved parent.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Okay, So that sounds like she had six kids total
were the other two may be older and moved out.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
So she had six that died after Edward John, her
oldest had moved out on his own, okay, And then
one of her other kids, Josephine, had died like previous. Wait,
so that seven of her eight kids have now passed.
After her many many losses, Lydia moved around for a
bit before finding a nursing job for an elderly woman
(17:43):
in Stratford, Connecticut in eighteen sixty four. Nope, eighteen sixty seven.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Is this all? Is this like a two for deal
where it's the black widow and an angel of death
situation with the nursing Like was there mention of like
a bunch of people died at this hospital that she
worked at. So then she moved like if she's moving around.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
No, so she wasn't an angel death person. She I
think she was doing nursing jobs, like in home care
type stuff, not like okay, but.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
She I'm still concerned.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I don't know what you're assuming she's killed all of
these people.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
I'm just concerned. That's all I know.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
She did not kill any patients that we know of, right, correct.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I'm choosing to be skeptical.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Understandably because we are barely into this and this isn't
I don't remember if I said this at the top,
but it's it's not a long case. I struggled really
hard to find one. We are where we are. It is, okay.
So she found that nursing job with an elderly woman
in Stratford, Connecticut in eighteen sixty seven, and it was
(18:46):
then that Lydia, still being a young attractive woman, soon
caught the attention of Dennis Hurlbert. Hurlbert, Helbert, Dennis a
old Hurlbert.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Stop it, that's why would you want to be called that?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I don't know, it is terrible. Why would we not
go by dentists? Because saying Hurlbert is extremely hard for me,
so he will be going by dentist.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Do you want to briefly talk about how your accent
came out in the last episode? And I was just
editing it today and I sent the clip to you. Yeah,
I can't remember what you were trying to say, but
it was like it definitely was like tell all of
a sudden Southern.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yes, I was trying to say, tell exactly. Listened to
last week's episode. We want to hear that. I think there.
I think I text you back saying I think there's
a couple words in here that I'm Hurlbert is one
of them. It was one of them, as I as
you can tell, I'm struggling to say.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Like physically is struggling to get the word out.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
It is such a weird like, Yeah, I don't know English,
so it's just I don't know. There could we not
have put together different words to have a better last name.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
That's all for Sarah's convenience obviously.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
All right, So Dennis aka Old Hurlbert was a wealthy
farmer and fisherman who had recently become widowed.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Okay, so this is the second she's collecting widows and
then becoming a widow widowers, Yeah, I guess so yeah,
no is it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
I've covered akay case or two, and so it wasn't
long before the much older Dennis was head over heels.
I always did it. Let the accident slip out again,
Dennis says, huadover heels for Lydia, and we should have
done the camera because I am literally.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Like I am Sarah's struggle bussing, struggle blessing through saying words.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
He was super into Lydia and he wanted to marry her.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Okay. Did he know that all of her kids died
and her.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Husband I'm going to assume no, okay, Or if he
did know that she was a widow not, I don't
even know if.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
She and all the other people you said other people
around her had died, right, No, like an aunt or something.
Did I make up a whole side quest I thought
you should like at one point there was five people,
but it was before the kids died.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Because the oldest. Now, okay, so so far the people
who have cut me being stupid, that's fine. I usually
do a recap anyways, I'll just throw one in here. Okay.
So from the top, the first kid she lost, Josephine.
Then she lost husband Edward.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Then she lost three more children. Oh okay, okay, so
I have the next three children. I just lost a
total of seven children.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Okay, and a husband. Okay. I don't know why. At
some point I must not have been paying attention. I
have gone off on a few tangents.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yes, thus far, all right, So the couple did just that,
and they wed in November of eighteen sixty eight. So
now she's married to the much older dentists, and Lydia
played the role of the doting young housewife really well.
Pour on the affection anytime anyone else was around, as
one does with your much older husband.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Do we know? Okay, say you're the one with much older,
much older, but heye is older. Now we're making her
largest oldest fa I mean, I have talked about him
being seven years older than me.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
So, yeah, what can I say an older man, I.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Don't have any comments. Okay, so we'll.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Move on to dentist.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Done, thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
So Dennis was so infatuated with Lydia that he even
changed his will pretty immediately, leaving everything to Lydia should
something happen to him.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Old Dennis hurly have children.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I didn't ever see any mention of children, and if
he did, they had to.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Have been like died of tuberculosis or Lydia's age, who else,
because well, I just mean like to cut them out
of the will, only everything to hers, kind of what
I'm wondering.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I didn't see any mention of children, just that his
previous wife had passed. And you know then he was
an old, lonely man. So okay, when a very young,
attractive Lydia came into the picture.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
He's like tale as old as time.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
So, like I said, he changed his will so that
she was left everything because he had real estate, obviously money, fish,
personal property, I don't know what, maybe probably a fishing
boat if he was a I don't know. So the
newly weds lived the next year and wedded Bliss, but
Lydia's horrid luck would strike again, because just after a
year of being together, Dennis felt ill, and even though
(23:02):
he received medical attention, there was nothing they could do
for his array of troubling symptoms. Sadly, Dennis to come
to his sudden sickness, leaving Lydia a widow.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yet again, that's really unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
But he also left Lydia with thirty thousand dollars and
real estate property, et cetera. And today's money is that's
just over six hundred and seventy five thousand dollars geez.
So okay, she's also a small chunk of money for
her yeah, very very small, modest So Lydia was obviously
(23:35):
devastated with yet another unfortunate loss, so devastated that within
six months of Denis's death, Lydia got married again. Okay,
some people do that, yeah, yeah, But again I'm not
judging anybody, obviously, like because everybody you.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Read you are judging.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I've just been thinking, like, if I were in that position,
would I just immediately marry? And I don't think I could.
The only way I can, which is obviously does not
even slightly equate. But like losing my dog devastated me,
I wouldn't have another dog right now if my husband
wasn't like we're getting another dog right so, like that's
the only thing I can equate it to you. I
(24:12):
just was, I don't know that it'd ever be ready to.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Husbands are just like I can arm they.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Like I said, she got married within six months of
Dennis passing one, an article said that she met the
next husband like as early as eight weeks later, like so.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Like she met him at the funeral or I mean.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Possibly like met eight weeks ish later, and then within
this six month time frame they got married. So in
eighteen seventy, Leia married get another widower named Horatio Sherman.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
So she's just like picking out men that are already
grieving and needy, yes.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, which I feel like probably back then was like
all of all. Yeah, I mean most of them are
needy to start.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
With, That's what I mean. They're like dogs. Dogs are needy. Yeah,
my male dog is the neediest dog I've ever met.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
I can't honestly, I can't say that because Remy Lake
is also needaf and whiny af, which they both do
a lot of dogs and men.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Oh I thought you meant.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I did it first and I'm like, no, I promise,
I'm not a manager. It's just funny, all jokes. This
is all all for jokes. Nobody take anything that we
say very seriously. Ever, I feel like we shouldn't have
to say that thank you goodbye. You would think we
wouldn't have to, but here we are.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Okay. So Horatio had recently become widowed and was looking
for someone to help care for his four children, and so,
just like previous yes, after Lydia and Horatio got married,
she moved in with him and his kids in Derby, Connecticut.
Lydia had originally applied to be a housekeeper for Horatio
before they became a couple and got married. So, like
(25:55):
he put it out.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
All that's probably how they met then, right, did I
question how that?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Well?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
You said they met within eight weeks. Oh yeah, blah
blah blah whatever. But probably she saw that Adam was like, Hi,
I can take care of your kids and I have boobs.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yes, basically, and he needed somebody to take care of
his kids, So why.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Don't just marry her because then you don't have to pair.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Like I said, she had originally applied to be a
hob keeper and then they just kind of, I guess,
hit it off because again, remember she was young and
charming and whatnot. It's easy to stay young when you're
like blowing through husbands so quickly.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
But because husband's age you, is that what you're trying
to say?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Maybe a little bit Okay. So unfortunately Horatio was a
heavy drinker and one day, during a drunken rant, he
said that he almost wished his sick infant son Frankie
would die. Quote that die isn't quotes because it was
actually said rather than be sick and miserable. So it's
from what I read, like this.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Sun was just come.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
You know, an infant, and they sometimes they're just always sick.
Sometimes kids are just always sick, and it sounds like
he was one of those kids. Okay, but Lydia didn't
have to be told twice. She never wanted to see
anyone sick and suffering. So Lydia made the baby a
bottle of milk, and the quote suffering was over in
a day.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah, So she's like the worst babies that are ever.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, she's literally the worst babies that ever for her
own kids and other people's kids. But she was charming
enough that nobody was picking up on her bullshit.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
So Also, a few months later, Lydia's teenage stepdaughter Da
caught the flu and unfortunately for her. Like I said,
Lydia couldn't stand at the sight of someone suffering in
her presence, so Lydia also helped to end her suffering.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Did she actually get the flu or was she like
so helped with flu symptoms?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
So the articles I saw did say that she actually
had the flu, okay, but not that she was like
so sick that the flu was killing her. Okay, Just
you know, you get sick with the flu, you feel
like shit.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
And then you get over it in five to seventies hopefully, right,
So kind of like that.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Lydia always said she couldn't dancing people suffer, so she
helped ende their suffering. The pain of losing a wife
and two children so closely together sent Horatio into a
week long drunken bench.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I bet poor Horatio. Yeah, And was he like Lydia,
What the fuck?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I don't think so, because again.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Or he like Lydia, that's my bad luck?
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Like right, I mean yeah, because I remember in the
of the times, like it's I don't know, man, die
from typhoid, tuberculosis, whatever, dysenteria, whatever, whatever old timey illness
you can think of, Like it was super common. So yeah,
I don't think at first, you know, he really questioned anything.
So having married yet another alcoholic didn't sit well with Lydia,
(28:42):
especially when Horatio was spending Lydia's inherit inherited fortune from
her previous husband.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
He had to get sick and so he wasn't.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Spending his own money, he was just spending her money,
which did not sit well. So Lydia decided to quote
make him sick of liquor, okay, how by spiking his
brandy with arsenic?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Oh you know I was going to guess arsenic. Yeah,
like for this whole thing.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, I wasn't. Like, obviously it's easy to figure out.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
That well because there's like different the different poisons that
you've covered, right, and so I was trying to think
back to what one was, Like I made the peptobismal comment,
and it was where the lady blew up her husband's
car or something, and that was arsenic. Yeah, so I'm
learning stuff from your cases? What stuff of my learning
about arsenic?
Speaker 1 (29:31):
So, like I said, she spiked his brandy with arsenic,
and he died within the next few days. But Horatio's
sudden death set off alarm bells because his whole family
just died basically for doctor J. C. Beardsley, who was
a local physician and like wherever they lived, Connecticut, sure Derby, Connecticut. Yeah,
that's why she has the nickname. Oh, I forgot that,
(29:55):
that's what you said. It's it just connected in my
brain and I've been typing this case for the past
three days. Okay, so weirdly ordered it an autopsy at
the nearby Yale So to no surprise, at least for me,
arsenic was found by George Frederick Barker, a Yale professor,
(30:15):
which then led to the excavation of Horatio's two children
that had passed as well as Dennis. So did an
autopsy on Horatio found arsenic, exhumed both his children from
Frankie and Ada who had previously passed, and then Dennis,
which was.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
What how did they test for arsenic in a body
back then?
Speaker 1 (30:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
I would just ask me that I'm sorry, well, because
I was thinking, like the anner freeze cases that I've done,
It's like crystal, you know, crystallizes inside their body. And
I don't know if like back then, they could just
put like a tissue sample under a microscope and be like, yep,
that's the arsenic, or like cyanide sometimes smells like almond.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Okay, I did a quick google. So in the late
eighteen hundreds, a key method for detecting arsenic was the
Marshall test by James Marshall in eighteen thirty six. This
test involved heating a sample suspected of containing arsenic with
zinc and acid, which produced arsen gas. When arsen gas
was heated, it would deposit a metallic arsenic mirror on
(31:16):
a certamic vessel. So basically, they're heating whatever sample with
zinc and acid and then if it leaves a film on.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Ew Okay, I regret asking.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I don't know how. I've never looked that up in
all of these cases that I've covered.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
And I've never asked. I don't know, but God, so
we shouldn't. You thinks I should have never asked that.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry everyone.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, So that's that's how they test.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
And now we all know that. Now stairs on a list,
and we don't.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Have to be, I am on many lists at this time.
My Google searches all right. So in June of eighteen
seventy one, Lydia was arrested in New Brunswick, New Jersey
for the murder of our third and final husband. She
was returned to Connecticut and was tried in eighteen seventy
two and New Haven the trial for Lydia Sherman died
eight days. Any guests on her verdict guilty? Oh so
(32:06):
Lydia was found guilty of second degree murder and while
in jail waiting for her sentence in eighteen seventy three,
Lydia made a full confession.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Oka.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
So basically she was like, I did that shit? Yeah,
she actually she tried for all of her kids or
just I don't think so, okay. I think they only
ended up trying her for the last husband for ratio.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
So she did make a full confession, and I think
I do include it later somewhere that she like, she
wrote out the confession and it was published for people
to read. Oh I did I buy that book? Absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
We yes her buying books.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
To second, we can put a shelf in here and
they can sit on her shelf. Never being douched.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Just collecting dust, That's what that one is.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yep. So Lydia only admitted to poisoning quote her three
husbands and four children.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
So that's still too many husbands and children to be poisoning, right.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Like, Also, Lydia, why not just own up to all
of it? Just say all of them because you know
you did that? Shit? What like? What like? What do
you think you're doing by not admitting to all of
them when you've already admitted to.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Like you already looked terrible. Right.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
So, Edward Struck, Lydia's first husband, was poisoned after becoming
a quote burden, Lydia mixed a quote thimbleful of arsenic
and Edward's oatmeal gruel. Which could we not have come
up with it? Could we not have served a mistake?
Like we had to give him oatmeal gruel? Whatever the
fuck that is? I meant to look it up.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
It just sounds off.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Old timey oatmeal, like the plain oatmeal that you make
on the stove.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Probably mixes like water.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah, Oh, Sarah's having texture issues.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
It's not good all right. So Lydia would later say
in her published confessions that rather than have him committed
to an asylum. She decided to quote put him out
of the way, as he would never be any good.
It's so harsh, right, Like, Sam, how do you know
you didn't even give him time to recover from his
depression and you just like you got to go on
(34:05):
to the next Yeah, right. Audio would quickly realize that
although she solved the drunken husband problem, she created a
new one.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
She had eleven billion children and no money.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yes, Edward was the primary breadwinner, and Lydia was now
left behind with the insane amount of children that she had.
That's why six weeks later, Lydia poisoned her youngest three children,
and although all three children died in the same day,
it wasn't ever questioned because again sickness and then it's
part of life in the eighteen hundreds. Yeah, having three
(34:36):
kids die of the exact same thing, the exact same
day just flew under everybody's radar. For some reason. With
fewer quote burdens, Lydia's life improved.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Dude, fuck her.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yeah again, when I say quote like this is it's
taken from her compressions. So improved was also in quotes,
because that's why I said fucked her. Yes, it's it's gross.
But when the next three children developed their own various ailments,
Lydia's you know, like I said, Lydia hated seeing them
would suffer as well, so she poisoned them to end
(35:08):
their suffering. So it does sound like some of the
kids actually did have some sort of it.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Something sounds angel of deathy, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I mean, it's like she.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Hates to see them stuff, like if she truly So
there's some financial aspects to it, yes, then the financial
burden of the kids, but then also there was like
the suffering because there wasn't a financial burden for Horatio's kids.
It was or done as his kids whoever had the
sick child that that was Horatio. Yeah, so Horatio's kid
by then, she already had inheritance from her previous husband,
(35:39):
like what like, So there's so there's no financial burden there.
But she's just like quote unquote putting the kid out
of his misery, right, which to me is more angel
of deathy because she's not getting a financial right.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
I could see it being that way, but I can
also seeing it being that she just didn't.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Like kids, that could I mean, yeah, I mean yes,
that too, like it's such a weird mix. Yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah, you're right, And I didn't even think about it like.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
It because it doesn't have to be like, you know,
one title a weird thing to say, like Angel of
Death or Black Widow blah blah. Like I feel like
she clearly had some traits of both. Yeah, yeah, and
definitely something wrong with her, yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
So it definitely does follow under like all of those. Right.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
It really makes me wonder about when she was a
nurse and going into people's homes and taking care of them.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
I know, I thought I didn't see any mention of that.
I don't. I don't think she really had that many
people that she was a nurse for because she was
so quickly moving on between husbands.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Okay, so I don't.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I don't think she really spent enough time doing the.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Nursing too, or it could be like that person was
on death store step anyway, you know, so it really
wasn't looked into and then yeah, not easily tracked back
then she'd just be like, oh, I was working in
this area, but and all of my.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Patients keep dying, so weird. Yeah, yeah, you're probably right.
It just wasn't as easily tracked because old timey. Yeah,
so Lydia obviously old Hurlbert for the financial security he
could provide. So, of course, after a year of playing
the doting housewife and getting that pesky wheel changed, Lydia
poisoned him as well. And had Lydia just enjoyed her
(37:14):
spoils from Dennis, she probably would have gotten away with
the eight murders that she.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
I think she definitely would have meant it, like no
one was looking into anything.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Right, So had she just been like, okay, I have
you know, I have enough money to back, then had
to been enough to set her for life, you know
what I mean, Like that was a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
It is a lot of money. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
So had she just not see that's what makes me
think like there is something more that Like maybe she
enjoyed killing people, right, you know what I mean? Like
it to me, because she did decide to like immediately
remarry and then continue killing it, there had to have
been like something there that made her want to continue
to do that. So Lydia claimed that she never meant
(37:54):
to kill Horatio, she just wanted to make him sick
of drinking. Whether that's true, or not obviously will never know.
I don't think it's true. I fully think that she's like,
this is another problem in front of me. I'm just
gonna get rid of it so I can try to
move on to the next. But she thankfully in this
that case, like there was actually people like paying attention
and they're like, no, this, there's something wrong here. So
on January eleventh, eighteen seventy three, Judge Sandford sentenced Lydia
(38:19):
to life in prison, and she was to be held
at the Weathersfield State Prison. But Lydia's story doesn't end there.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Not the death penalty. No, I don't see. I guess
if she was only tried for killing one guy, yes.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
But even then, like they killed for much less fact
than like well a.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Woman that do. Yeah, they weren't trying her for the
death of all of the kids.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah, So, like I said, her story doesn't end there.
In June of eighteen seventy seven, Rio was able to
escape prison under the watch of a quote careless matron
with help from friends unsure of who wanted to be
friends with her, but okay, Lydia made it to Providence,
Rhode Island. There, Lydia attempted to enter a relationship with
(39:02):
yet another wealthy widower, but she was apprehended after accidentally
giving a hotel proprietor's wife to two different names. So
instead of just saying like hotel proprietor, like because she's
also the wife also probably had part in the hotel.
I don't know. It just bothers me that it was
this man's wife, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
That just that bothers me.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Anyways, she gave this lady two different names, and that
sent up red flags. So I guess the lady was like, hey,
come check this spitch out. Yeah, so they did.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Oh you know, I'm glad it was the wife because
the guy would probably be like, I don't know, I
don't even remember what you said your name.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Was, honestly, yeah, honestly.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah. The wife was like, I don't know, I'm a
little suspicious of you because right, yeah, So that's I
wonder if she slipped up and accidentally gave her real name.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
And that's when the white wife was like, I've read
about you, you know what I mean, because it's all
in the same area. So Lydia was of course sent
back to prison, where after a several weeks long bout
of illness she died.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Did she arsenic herself?
Speaker 1 (39:59):
No? I saw in one article it mentioned cancer, but again.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
She was probably like, will someone please arsenic me?
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Honestly I was thinking that because like if she didn't
truly didn't like to see people suffer, And now she's suffering, right,
I think it's poetic. Yes, she you know, ended the
same way that she was murdering all of her husbands
and children for. But like, so, she died on May sixteenth,
eighteen seventy eight. So Lydia's eighteen seventy three confession was
(40:25):
published by two different companies, once in seventy three and
then again in eighteen seventy eight. So, like, like I said,
it's out there, you can probably find it. I didn't
care too.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
I didn't care too.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
It is believed that Lydia had poisoned as many as
ten people, and she even had her own nursery rhyme.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Well really, yeah, why did I get so excited about that?
What is it?
Speaker 1 (40:46):
I'm going to attempt to read this, Okay, we know
I'm terrible ireading.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
It starts with Lizzie Borden took an act.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Lydia Sherman is plagued with rats. Lydia has no faith
in cats. Lydia buys some arsenic, and then her husband
gets sick, and then her husband he does die, and
Lydia's neighbors wonder why Lydia moves but still has rats.
And still she puts snow faith in cats. So again
she buys some arsenic, this time her children they get sick.
(41:14):
This time her children they do die, and Lydia's neighbors
wonder why Lydia lists Weathersfield jail and loudly does she
moan and wail. She blames her fate on a plague
of rats. She blames the laziness of cats, but her
neighbors questions she can't deny, so Lydia, now in prison,
must lie.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Was she using rough on rats?
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yes, yes, I had to save it for the end. Yeah,
So that is the case of the Derby poisoner aka
Lydia Sherman. Wow with her very own nursery.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Rhyme that I have never heard of her as a
wild advertisement for rough on rat.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Yeah, but yeah, she was using rough on rats okay wild,
which is crazy to me how she got away with
killing so many people?
Speaker 2 (42:00):
But I mean, like you said, kids died of a
stiff breeze, like in their early eighteen hundred or mid
eighteen hundreds. Yeah, so yeah, and like I feel like
everyone just like minded their own business kind of like, yeah,
she's grieving that stuck. So I'm glad it's not me.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Possibly, I don't know. I think it's just it is
crazy that six kids within the span of a year.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
But if you think about it, like she didn't stay
in the same place after the first three, right, she moved.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I don't think she moved until after shut the fuck up. Yeah,
so first husband died, Yeah, three three kids, then the
next three kids, well okay, all of them but one.
A couple of articles did say that I think she
was like calling in different doctors every time it had passed.
So like, still, how the fuck is this not raising
alarm bells?
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Like, yeah, well, I assume that she left after the
first three and then the second three died and like
seven towns over or something. Yeah, if she stayed all
in the same place, that would be kind of fucking wild, yes,
because like, Okay, the husband died of whatever, so something's
clearly going around, and then the first three kids die
from that, and then.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yeah, I don't think. I don't think she moved until
after that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Children are passed the police for the first husband were
the ones that were like, we don't want to interrupt
the grieving, so maybe.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Who should have I blame them honestly, like, let's do
our jobs and not worry about interrupting grieving because it's
going to happening either way, So you might as well
get your answers on whether somebody was moving, wouldn't you
think like the grieving wife would wouldn't care if you're
trying to make sure it wasn't unless she's the one
that was doing it correct, which is why she rushed
to bury him.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
But yeah, crazy, that was a very Sarah case. And
bring back the rough on rats.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Yeah, okay, so my sources I forgot that word. I'm fine,
this is fine. So my sources are connecticuthistory dot org.
Then there is a Journal of Medicine or a Journal
of Medical Humanities by Howard Fisher article and Nhregister dot
com by Raymond Bendissy.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
This is my worst part is having to say names.
There was a murder Pedia obviously article on it. There
were two.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Different say, obviously I need she killed eight thousand people.
I mean, obviously she's on murder media.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yes, there was two medium articles. There was one by
John Wilford and then one by Jack Patrick Brooks, as
well as a horrorle scene dot com article where wich
is where I found the nursery room.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Okay, and that is that fucking terrible case. That's awful. Yeah,
you're so welcome, You're so welome. Thank you. Well, do
you have anything else?
Speaker 1 (44:38):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
I don't know. Okay, just gonna remind you again to
like subscribe in shas with your friends. But that's all
we have for this week. Thanks for listening. Hey bye,
kay bye
Hey, I'm Tealsa and I'm Sarah.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to The Shit Show a half.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
That's true crime podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And the show is shitty.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hello, Hello to all of our new listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Appreciate your support.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yeah, like our downloads are up, it's great. Yeah, we enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I really enjoy looking at the analytics to see where
people are listening from.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
It's like, it's my favorite thing now it is. Yeah, yeah,
well it's my favorite thing when you do it, because yeah,
Sarah doesn't do it.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I do it. But like yesterday, I'm like, oh, somebody
from Michigan listen to too many episodes, but thank you. Yes,
and one person in one person listened from Detroit, and
I was like, I'm assuming that's Eminem.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Absolutely we like we're gonna pop off at any moment.
But he only listened to one, so well, he didn't listen.
He's a busy man. He's had a spaghetti chapter on,
like a music career, a grandkid, a grand kid, like
he you know, he's busy.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Not that I know everything about his life. That's really weird.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Not be at all. Anyway, Lisa's your biggest fan. So
what's new?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Nothing's new? Why what's new with you?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Honestly, I don't even know. So this is this week's
my week to do a case, and I should you not.
I probably read through at least a million cases, and
then some of them are like, oh, this is interesting information,
Oh this is interesting too close to what's going on
in our real lives right now. Like it literally is
(01:28):
just a cycle of like too close to home, enough information?
What the fuck am I doing here? So? Yeah, so
send us a case case question. Yeah, preferably ones that
have like all of the information easily accessible because we
don't read books.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
I okay, so I can say this. I'm moving some
stuff around and Sarah helped. Sarah and her husband came,
our biggest fan came and helped move some stuff, which
was awesome. And when we're moving stuff, there's this book
in my living room and I was like, you see
that book right there. I bought that thinking I would
read it about a case because I tried looking this
case up and I wanted to cover it, but there
(02:04):
wasn't a ton of information online. You'd have to go
through like news, you know, old newspapers, and we don't
have newspapers dot com or anything like that. And so
I was like I'll just buy that book, and I'll
fucking read the book. I have never even opened it once.
It's been in my living room for months because I
just don't have time right now. But also I don't
think i've I haven't had time to read since.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I just though the thought of sitting like, I think
I do have some sort of adio. Well, not surprising,
I definitely have some sort of neurodivergence, because like, anytime
I sit down, like with a book or something, I'm
like either zoning out, passing out because since falling asleep,
or like it's just I have to read the same
sentence twenty times because my brain just cannot compute.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
They can listen to like books and stuff while I'm
doing things or driving kids to practice or whatever, but
sitting down and reading a book is just not a
thing that I have time for. I thought that I
would for some reason, so I bought that someday. Maybe
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, if I'm listening like I can and absolutely like.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Although sometimes when I'm listening stuff, I don't out and
don't even.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Same, so I'm not fine. I like, It's true, i
I'm sometimes fine. Well, well I'm sometimes fine that's fair.
Do we have anything else? I feel like there was
something else we like, we're like, we need to say this,
and I don't remember what it was.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I think it would just welcome to the new listener.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, before we start, though, or before I start, I
don't know. Something's happening here. Hey, we're gonna go ahead
and hand mention our social medias because we keep forgetting
to do that. And so you can find us on
Facebook at The shit Show, a true crime podcast. You
can find us on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok YouTube at the
Shit Show TCP. Can also send us case suggestions at
shit Show TCP at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
You can, or you should subscribe and review us on
Apple Podcasts, like a nice five star review and leave
something you like about us there and like can comment
on Spotify. Just helps us get pushed out to more
people so more people can hear our fucking weird bullshit.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Okay, Hi, Hello, there's there's gonna be a trigger warning
on this one. There is mention of child death, and
Sarah was like.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Oh, Tills is already kind of sad, right now, let's
talk about a child death.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
When I say when I say, I read through like
a hundred cases. I'm not even exaggerating.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I understand. Yeah, I understand that.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
And I didn't realize there was a child death when
I already started, like you were in too deep. Yeah,
I skimmed it, and I'm like, Okay, this seems up.
Sarah's Sally, let's do this.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
And I'm already deciding what's happening in this case.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Okay, So yeah, so just there's your warning for that.
So I am going to tell you about the Derby poisoner.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
That's exactly where I thought this was going when he
said this seems like a staircase.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I didn't even realize it when I picked it. Honestly,
I'm like, oh, this is gonna I'm just.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Gonna just tell us and just tell us that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Lydia Dansbury was born on Christmas Eve, eighteen twenty four
in New.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Jersey, just in the state of New Jersey.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
One article set up specific place, and I just I
had already typed it out and I didn't go back
to put it in. So it started with.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
A bee the beach.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
No, I don't know, I can't even my brain's not
even yeah, what years of eighteen twenty four?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Okay, well, old old.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Timey, very old timey, very sarah yep. So one article
said that her parents were alcoholics, but I didn't really
see that anywhere else. So again, this is old timey
kind of choose whether they were or not.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Her parents were alcoholics, but maybe not.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, okay, so her parents were possibly alcoholics, but I
mean that's very much of the time.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So I say it's at the time. But I don't
know if that was just generalizing like everyone, but I.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Feel like the amount of cases that we've covered, it
seems like, yeah, and especially old timey, like the dad
is usually an alcoholics, so like because it was probably
like a penny for a beer back then, I don't
even know. Okay. So unfortunately, like most old time cases,
like Lydia's mother died a year after she was born,
leaving her orphaned.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Where did her dad go?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I am unsure where her father.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Was, but he went to the bar and left the
baby at the orphanage.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
So she was orphaned, but she didn't end up in
an orphanage. Her uncle took her in. So I did
see like one article that I happened upon at the
very end of finishing up this case that said that
her father remarried and she chose to go live with
a uncle. But again, I only saw that in one place,
so I'm not but tyly sure, but right exactly because
that was one year old. That's why I didn't put
(06:22):
it in and choose that. Yeah, that's why I'm like,
that doesn't seem correct because infant. Yeah, okay, So Lydia
was simply taken in by John clay Gay, an uncle
who was a farmer.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
It was said that Lydia was a pretty charming, quite
clever young lady. When she was sixteen years old, she
started working as a tailor, and around the same time,
Lydia met a man named Edward Struck through her Methodist church.
Edward was a widow with two children.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
He was looking for someone to watch those kids.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yes, so, by all accounts, Lydia was I don't know
why I did this in two different places. She was
a you know, beautiful, sociable woman with you know that
was devout to her faith. And it's meeting her future
husband at church. Eighteen forty one, at the age of seventeen,
Lydia married Edward and the couple moved to New York City,
(07:18):
where Edward became a police officer in the suburb of Yorkville.
I could not, for the life of me figure out
how old Edward was when they got married.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Probably much older, but clearly that's what I'm picturing.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yeah, clearly old enough because he had already been previously
married and had two kids with the previous wife that
passed away. Did not see why or how she passed away,
but tuberculosis, tuberculosis childbirth. Since they were talking about tuberculous typhoid.
Pick one of old timmy deaths. Put it on your
Bengal card because who knows. So over the next seven years,
(07:51):
Lydia and Edward would go on to have six or
eight children. Again, depending on which article you wanted to go.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
With, I'm going to say they had six children together
plus is two previous one that's equals eight. Yes, that's math.
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yes, So that's kind of how I took it, you know,
reading trying to like piece of tat.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Okay, we're not doing video today because I forgot my
computer today. I and you know, it's what, it's fine whatever.
But Sarah is doing all kinds of gestures like she's
gathering the information from like a berry Tree or something,
and that's my brain.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
It's like I'm picking it from my brain, like I
need to say this information. Yeah, of all days, ten
not have video. It's when I'm like flailing my hands
because I don't know what to do because the people
want to see you flailing your hands, all right, So
either way, too fucking many.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Kids, too fucking many kids?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Six to eight children? How do you have the time
or the energy? Have you seen I'm going on a
site in Genter real quick on TikTok the mom who
has twelve kids or she's getting ready to have the twelve.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
I think I saw somebody talking about like her gender
reveal for that. But yeah, and I was like this,
first of all, this video is too long and I
don't have the attention span. I have never seen or
heard of this before, so I just skipped it.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I it's all over mine and it's well not her video,
but like the people like dissecting her video and being like,
I feel so sorry for her older kids because they
are now being forced into being parents. So it's I
don't know, that's how we's That is how I feel
like when people have a fuck ton of kids because
there's not there's not enough time in the day for
you to be able to possibly spend the correct amount
(09:28):
of time with each child, you know what I mean. Yeah,
So when I say two fucking many, it's for reasons
like that, because like, how do you, like, how do
you do it right?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I don't know. And if they're all like close in age,
I guess is what I'm picturing. It's like when I
have a bunch of kids at my house and they'll
just entertain each other. Yeah, like after three or four,
like they just travel in a pack.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
They I think the adrange for the TikTok Lady was
like it was early teens to like still having an infant.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Well, when you have twelve of them, it has to
be like time wise, unless you got whole bunch of
twins or something.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I think they did have some one set of twins.
I don't know. I didn't go deep diving into it,
but I just fully agree with the people who are like,
there's no way you have enough time and the day
to like, well, that's what the duggers did right, right, Well, yeah,
because like now your older kids are being forced and
they were like paired of with a younger kid to
take care of her something.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I feel like, I remember I didn't watch the dugger thing.
I just know, Yeah, for some reason, I think I
know that.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
I think I watched a documentary on them.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Maybe that after like they I don't know fell from
I know nothing, all right, that's my.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Idea that I could continue to go on for no
reason that I just randomly added this fun fact in
as well. At least two articles called Lydia a sturdy
but attractive housewife.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I don't know if that's offensive or not.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
I feel like it is because she's not a large
person from pictures that I, you know, founded like she
wasn't a large diversity.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
What does that mean? Like white hips, wide shoulders.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Maybe i'd be fuck her hips. Gotta be sturdy with
twelve eight six kids. That Genny was okay, dirty. I
just had to add that in because I knew you
would love it.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I would self reflect a little.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Shut up, all right. So, nonetheless, life seemed to be
going well for the Strucks until eighteen sixty three, when
Edward lost his job on the police force due to
what witnesses described as cowardice when Edward was responding to
a robbery. Oh so, one article said that his active
cowardice resulted in the murder of a detective. Okay, so
(11:26):
Edward was reprimanded, disgraced, and then fired because your job
as a police officer officer is to like stop the robbery,
and I'm from what I read, you just let it
into do anything. Yeah, Okay, he had the flight freight
or feet free freeze and.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
He just froze.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I guess. Okay, So, which in turn sent Edward into
a deep drunken depression, which again in turn started to
take a toll in the family.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well, just losing your job alone would take a toll
in the family because you've got a bill children that
all want to eat three meals a day, and yeah,
instead of feeding them, you're drinking and being depressed. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And remember Lydia was housewife, so like she doesn't bring
in any right, and she has six to eight kids
to take care of her, So that obviously takes a
toll in the family. And I think one article did
say that he did kind of attempt to try to
find work, but it was more like he was in
a drunken stupor because he was depressed about being disgraced.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Hard to find work when you're trashed, and when you're
a disgraced police officer, yeah, what job are you're gonna?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, so I'm sure that probably played a pretty big role.
So just a few months after the couple's youngest was
born in eighteen sixty four, Edward became sick and sadly,
despite seeking medical at tension for his severe vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhea,
and convulsions, Edwards succumb to the swift and aggressive sickness
(12:59):
that he had been stricken.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
He needs some pepto bismol.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I wonder if that came out obviously, not just thinking
about like the d I think, yeah, yeah, it's not good.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
That always made me throw up, like the peptobismal Like
I couldn't. I couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I haven't had pepto bismol probably since I was no.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I mean as a child, I could not. And I
was like, I'd rather just throw up regular stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I can't get Connor to take it either.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
He's gross.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
He also would just rather have a stomachache can throw
up than yeah, to thepto, which I don't blame him. Okay, So,
so doctors were perplexed by Edward's sudden death, but they
blamed it on consumption, Okay, tuberculosis.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
How did I know we were going to talk about
tuberculosis just the time.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
But they still requested an official investigation just because of
how quickly you know, he'd become sick and passed.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So you're telling me that in eighteen sixty four, right, Yes,
did a more thorough investigation than they did for my
guy last week, Glenn, who died of a very quick,
sudden flew death.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I know they did not, because Lydia had her husband
buried expeditiously, and authorities didn't want to intrude on the
family's brief so they left it at that.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, damn right, I'm sorry she hadn't buried instead of cremated.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
I mean, yeah, same, But I think it was a.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
How quick can we do this?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Well? And also like she's got six to eight kids
still at home that she's now the sole provider for
as a housewife, so she didn't have time to grieve
her husband's deaf from tuberculosis.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Tuberculus was getting people at that time.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, yeah, so it was rough on rats, But I
already made the graphic for this that I can't wait
to show you all.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
So one article had noted that Lydia's eldest son, John
had moved out prior to the loss, and that her
daughter Josephine had passed years earlier from a mysterious illness.
So Lydia was unfortunately no stranger with deaf. Six weeks
after Edward's death, three of Lydia's children fell ill and
sudden and sadly succumb to their illness typhoid the fuck
(14:59):
out of my pretty serious. All right, hold on, we'll
get there, Okay, okay. So, being in the era of
high mortality rates and at the time when a single
illness could wipe out an entire family, there were no
suspicions raised. After losing her husband and three of her children.
A doctor saw Lydia grieving and struggling, so they took
pity on her and gave her work as a nurse,
which just.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Well, you know what, being a mom of a billion
kids like you can do some nursing stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Okay, Not to sound what's.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
The word I'm not saying I could do. I could
be a nurse. I'm saying, like, I don't know, describe that.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I shut off. Insensitive, Not to sound insensitive. But she's
had at least five people already died near her.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yes, that's true, but I mean that doctor that saw
that doesn't know that necessarily, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, well, I was just saying based off your comment
of like, being a mom of a fuck ten of kids,
you do you do learn a lot, like I don't
know how many times when our kids were younger, and
we just like go back and forth to like, does
this sound like, can't butt in mouth help me? Because
your kids had it before, it had gotten it before. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
You were like, Hi, you're five minutes older as a mother,
can you tell me what this looks like in your kids?
And I was like, sorry, dude, that is hand, foot
and mouth wash, all the toys.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Literally the worst. And his wasn't even that bad.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
No, Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So the following year, in eighteen sixty five, at Lee,
three more of Lydia's children would become sick and die again.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Due to their that's like all of them, correct.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So the death certificates for all six children listed the
cause of death as typhoid fever. I'm literally just like hitting, well, it's.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Not funny, No, it's funny that I guessed it. I
was just thinking like, Okay, if all of your kids
are sick in that time period, what's something that is
well known that's like sweeping through right in killing families?
Which typhoid type one and tuberculosis.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, we're definitely both way up there.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
So does someone die of dysentery in this episode?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Surprisingly no, so Mary Ann, Edward, William, George, and Eliza
and even baby Lydia all had to come to their sickness.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Baby Lydia, Yeah, they ran.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Out of names for Yeah, when you got eight kids,
names are herd to come by. But yeah, they I
guess named the baby after her, Okay, which we all
know how I feel that. Yeah, So, leaving Lydia all
alone as a widow and bereaved parent.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Okay, So that sounds like she had six kids total
were the other two may be older and moved out.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
So she had six that died after Edward John, her
oldest had moved out on his own, okay, And then
one of her other kids, Josephine, had died like previous. Wait,
so that seven of her eight kids have now passed.
After her many many losses, Lydia moved around for a
bit before finding a nursing job for an elderly woman
(17:43):
in Stratford, Connecticut in eighteen sixty four. Nope, eighteen sixty seven.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Is this all? Is this like a two for deal
where it's the black widow and an angel of death
situation with the nursing Like was there mention of like
a bunch of people died at this hospital that she
worked at. So then she moved like if she's moving around.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
No, so she wasn't an angel death person. She I
think she was doing nursing jobs, like in home care
type stuff, not like okay, but.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
She I'm still concerned.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I don't know what you're assuming she's killed all of
these people.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
I'm just concerned. That's all I know.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
She did not kill any patients that we know of, right, correct.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I'm choosing to be skeptical.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Understandably because we are barely into this and this isn't
I don't remember if I said this at the top,
but it's it's not a long case. I struggled really
hard to find one. We are where we are. It is, okay.
So she found that nursing job with an elderly woman
in Stratford, Connecticut in eighteen sixty seven, and it was
(18:46):
then that Lydia, still being a young attractive woman, soon
caught the attention of Dennis Hurlbert. Hurlbert, Helbert, Dennis a
old Hurlbert.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Stop it, that's why would you want to be called that?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I don't know, it is terrible. Why would we not
go by dentists? Because saying Hurlbert is extremely hard for me,
so he will be going by dentist.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Do you want to briefly talk about how your accent
came out in the last episode? And I was just
editing it today and I sent the clip to you. Yeah,
I can't remember what you were trying to say, but
it was like it definitely was like tell all of
a sudden Southern.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yes, I was trying to say, tell exactly. Listened to
last week's episode. We want to hear that. I think there.
I think I text you back saying I think there's
a couple words in here that I'm Hurlbert is one
of them. It was one of them, as I as
you can tell, I'm struggling to say.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Like physically is struggling to get the word out.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
It is such a weird like, Yeah, I don't know English,
so it's just I don't know. There could we not
have put together different words to have a better last name.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
That's all for Sarah's convenience obviously.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
All right, So Dennis aka Old Hurlbert was a wealthy
farmer and fisherman who had recently become widowed.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Okay, so this is the second she's collecting widows and
then becoming a widow widowers, Yeah, I guess so yeah,
no is it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
I've covered akay case or two, and so it wasn't
long before the much older Dennis was head over heels.
I always did it. Let the accident slip out again,
Dennis says, huadover heels for Lydia, and we should have
done the camera because I am literally.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Like I am Sarah's struggle bussing, struggle blessing through saying words.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
He was super into Lydia and he wanted to marry her.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Okay. Did he know that all of her kids died
and her.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Husband I'm going to assume no, okay, Or if he
did know that she was a widow not, I don't
even know if.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
She and all the other people you said other people
around her had died, right, No, like an aunt or something.
Did I make up a whole side quest I thought
you should like at one point there was five people,
but it was before the kids died.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Because the oldest. Now, okay, so so far the people
who have cut me being stupid, that's fine. I usually
do a recap anyways, I'll just throw one in here. Okay.
So from the top, the first kid she lost, Josephine.
Then she lost husband Edward.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Then she lost three more children. Oh okay, okay, so
I have the next three children. I just lost a
total of seven children.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Okay, and a husband. Okay. I don't know why. At
some point I must not have been paying attention. I
have gone off on a few tangents.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yes, thus far, all right, So the couple did just that,
and they wed in November of eighteen sixty eight. So
now she's married to the much older dentists, and Lydia
played the role of the doting young housewife really well.
Pour on the affection anytime anyone else was around, as
one does with your much older husband.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Do we know? Okay, say you're the one with much older,
much older, but heye is older. Now we're making her
largest oldest fa I mean, I have talked about him
being seven years older than me.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
So, yeah, what can I say an older man, I.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Don't have any comments. Okay, so we'll.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Move on to dentist.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Done, thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
So Dennis was so infatuated with Lydia that he even
changed his will pretty immediately, leaving everything to Lydia should
something happen to him.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Old Dennis hurly have children.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I didn't ever see any mention of children, and if
he did, they had to.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Have been like died of tuberculosis or Lydia's age, who else,
because well, I just mean like to cut them out
of the will, only everything to hers, kind of what
I'm wondering.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I didn't see any mention of children, just that his
previous wife had passed. And you know then he was
an old, lonely man. So okay, when a very young,
attractive Lydia came into the picture.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
He's like tale as old as time.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
So, like I said, he changed his will so that
she was left everything because he had real estate, obviously money, fish,
personal property, I don't know what, maybe probably a fishing
boat if he was a I don't know. So the
newly weds lived the next year and wedded Bliss, but
Lydia's horrid luck would strike again, because just after a
year of being together, Dennis felt ill, and even though
(23:02):
he received medical attention, there was nothing they could do
for his array of troubling symptoms. Sadly, Dennis to come
to his sudden sickness, leaving Lydia a widow.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yet again, that's really unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
But he also left Lydia with thirty thousand dollars and
real estate property, et cetera. And today's money is that's
just over six hundred and seventy five thousand dollars geez.
So okay, she's also a small chunk of money for
her yeah, very very small, modest So Lydia was obviously
(23:35):
devastated with yet another unfortunate loss, so devastated that within
six months of Denis's death, Lydia got married again. Okay,
some people do that, yeah, yeah, But again I'm not
judging anybody, obviously, like because everybody you.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Read you are judging.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I've just been thinking, like, if I were in that position,
would I just immediately marry? And I don't think I could.
The only way I can, which is obviously does not
even slightly equate. But like losing my dog devastated me,
I wouldn't have another dog right now if my husband
wasn't like we're getting another dog right so, like that's
the only thing I can equate it to you. I
(24:12):
just was, I don't know that it'd ever be ready to.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Husbands are just like I can arm they.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Like I said, she got married within six months of
Dennis passing one, an article said that she met the
next husband like as early as eight weeks later, like so.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Like she met him at the funeral or I mean.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Possibly like met eight weeks ish later, and then within
this six month time frame they got married. So in
eighteen seventy, Leia married get another widower named Horatio Sherman.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
So she's just like picking out men that are already
grieving and needy, yes.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, which I feel like probably back then was like
all of all. Yeah, I mean most of them are
needy to start.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
With, That's what I mean. They're like dogs. Dogs are needy. Yeah,
my male dog is the neediest dog I've ever met.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
I can't honestly, I can't say that because Remy Lake
is also needaf and whiny af, which they both do
a lot of dogs and men.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Oh I thought you meant.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I did it first and I'm like, no, I promise,
I'm not a manager. It's just funny, all jokes. This
is all all for jokes. Nobody take anything that we
say very seriously. Ever, I feel like we shouldn't have
to say that thank you goodbye. You would think we
wouldn't have to, but here we are.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Okay. So Horatio had recently become widowed and was looking
for someone to help care for his four children, and so,
just like previous yes, after Lydia and Horatio got married,
she moved in with him and his kids in Derby, Connecticut.
Lydia had originally applied to be a housekeeper for Horatio
before they became a couple and got married. So, like
(25:55):
he put it out.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
All that's probably how they met then, right, did I
question how that?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Well?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
You said they met within eight weeks. Oh yeah, blah
blah blah whatever. But probably she saw that Adam was like, Hi,
I can take care of your kids and I have boobs.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yes, basically, and he needed somebody to take care of
his kids, So why.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Don't just marry her because then you don't have to pair.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Like I said, she had originally applied to be a
hob keeper and then they just kind of, I guess,
hit it off because again, remember she was young and
charming and whatnot. It's easy to stay young when you're
like blowing through husbands so quickly.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
But because husband's age you, is that what you're trying
to say?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Maybe a little bit Okay. So unfortunately Horatio was a
heavy drinker and one day, during a drunken rant, he
said that he almost wished his sick infant son Frankie
would die. Quote that die isn't quotes because it was
actually said rather than be sick and miserable. So it's
from what I read, like this.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Sun was just come.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
You know, an infant, and they sometimes they're just always sick.
Sometimes kids are just always sick, and it sounds like
he was one of those kids. Okay, but Lydia didn't
have to be told twice. She never wanted to see
anyone sick and suffering. So Lydia made the baby a
bottle of milk, and the quote suffering was over in
a day.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah, So she's like the worst babies that are ever.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, she's literally the worst babies that ever for her
own kids and other people's kids. But she was charming
enough that nobody was picking up on her bullshit.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
So Also, a few months later, Lydia's teenage stepdaughter Da
caught the flu and unfortunately for her. Like I said,
Lydia couldn't stand at the sight of someone suffering in
her presence, so Lydia also helped to end her suffering.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Did she actually get the flu or was she like
so helped with flu symptoms?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
So the articles I saw did say that she actually
had the flu, okay, but not that she was like
so sick that the flu was killing her. Okay, Just
you know, you get sick with the flu, you feel
like shit.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
And then you get over it in five to seventies hopefully, right,
So kind of like that.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Lydia always said she couldn't dancing people suffer, so she
helped ende their suffering. The pain of losing a wife
and two children so closely together sent Horatio into a
week long drunken bench.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I bet poor Horatio. Yeah, And was he like Lydia,
What the fuck?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I don't think so, because again.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Or he like Lydia, that's my bad luck?
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Like right, I mean yeah, because I remember in the
of the times, like it's I don't know, man, die
from typhoid, tuberculosis, whatever, dysenteria, whatever, whatever old timey illness
you can think of, Like it was super common. So yeah,
I don't think at first, you know, he really questioned anything.
So having married yet another alcoholic didn't sit well with Lydia,
(28:42):
especially when Horatio was spending Lydia's inherit inherited fortune from
her previous husband.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
He had to get sick and so he wasn't.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Spending his own money, he was just spending her money,
which did not sit well. So Lydia decided to quote
make him sick of liquor, okay, how by spiking his
brandy with arsenic?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Oh you know I was going to guess arsenic. Yeah,
like for this whole thing.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, I wasn't. Like, obviously it's easy to figure out.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
That well because there's like different the different poisons that
you've covered, right, and so I was trying to think
back to what one was, Like I made the peptobismal comment,
and it was where the lady blew up her husband's
car or something, and that was arsenic. Yeah, so I'm
learning stuff from your cases? What stuff of my learning
about arsenic?
Speaker 1 (29:31):
So, like I said, she spiked his brandy with arsenic,
and he died within the next few days. But Horatio's
sudden death set off alarm bells because his whole family
just died basically for doctor J. C. Beardsley, who was
a local physician and like wherever they lived, Connecticut, sure Derby, Connecticut. Yeah,
that's why she has the nickname. Oh, I forgot that,
(29:55):
that's what you said. It's it just connected in my
brain and I've been typing this case for the past
three days. Okay, so weirdly ordered it an autopsy at
the nearby Yale So to no surprise, at least for me,
arsenic was found by George Frederick Barker, a Yale professor,
(30:15):
which then led to the excavation of Horatio's two children
that had passed as well as Dennis. So did an
autopsy on Horatio found arsenic, exhumed both his children from
Frankie and Ada who had previously passed, and then Dennis,
which was.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
What how did they test for arsenic in a body
back then?
Speaker 1 (30:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
I would just ask me that I'm sorry, well, because
I was thinking, like the anner freeze cases that I've done,
It's like crystal, you know, crystallizes inside their body. And
I don't know if like back then, they could just
put like a tissue sample under a microscope and be like, yep,
that's the arsenic, or like cyanide sometimes smells like almond.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Okay, I did a quick google. So in the late
eighteen hundreds, a key method for detecting arsenic was the
Marshall test by James Marshall in eighteen thirty six. This
test involved heating a sample suspected of containing arsenic with
zinc and acid, which produced arsen gas. When arsen gas
was heated, it would deposit a metallic arsenic mirror on
(31:16):
a certamic vessel. So basically, they're heating whatever sample with
zinc and acid and then if it leaves a film on.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Ew Okay, I regret asking.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I don't know how. I've never looked that up in
all of these cases that I've covered.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
And I've never asked. I don't know, but God, so
we shouldn't. You thinks I should have never asked that.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry everyone.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, So that's that's how they test.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
And now we all know that. Now stairs on a list,
and we don't.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Have to be, I am on many lists at this time.
My Google searches all right. So in June of eighteen
seventy one, Lydia was arrested in New Brunswick, New Jersey
for the murder of our third and final husband. She
was returned to Connecticut and was tried in eighteen seventy
two and New Haven the trial for Lydia Sherman died
eight days. Any guests on her verdict guilty? Oh so
(32:06):
Lydia was found guilty of second degree murder and while
in jail waiting for her sentence in eighteen seventy three,
Lydia made a full confession.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Oka.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
So basically she was like, I did that shit? Yeah,
she actually she tried for all of her kids or
just I don't think so, okay. I think they only
ended up trying her for the last husband for ratio.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
So she did make a full confession, and I think
I do include it later somewhere that she like, she
wrote out the confession and it was published for people
to read. Oh I did I buy that book? Absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
We yes her buying books.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
To second, we can put a shelf in here and
they can sit on her shelf. Never being douched.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Just collecting dust, That's what that one is.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yep. So Lydia only admitted to poisoning quote her three
husbands and four children.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
So that's still too many husbands and children to be poisoning, right.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Like, Also, Lydia, why not just own up to all
of it? Just say all of them because you know
you did that? Shit? What like? What like? What do
you think you're doing by not admitting to all of
them when you've already admitted to.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Like you already looked terrible. Right.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
So, Edward Struck, Lydia's first husband, was poisoned after becoming
a quote burden, Lydia mixed a quote thimbleful of arsenic
and Edward's oatmeal gruel. Which could we not have come
up with it? Could we not have served a mistake?
Like we had to give him oatmeal gruel? Whatever the
fuck that is? I meant to look it up.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
It just sounds off.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Old timey oatmeal, like the plain oatmeal that you make
on the stove.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Probably mixes like water.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah, Oh, Sarah's having texture issues.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
It's not good all right. So Lydia would later say
in her published confessions that rather than have him committed
to an asylum. She decided to quote put him out
of the way, as he would never be any good.
It's so harsh, right, Like, Sam, how do you know
you didn't even give him time to recover from his
depression and you just like you got to go on
(34:05):
to the next Yeah, right. Audio would quickly realize that
although she solved the drunken husband problem, she created a
new one.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
She had eleven billion children and no money.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yes, Edward was the primary breadwinner, and Lydia was now
left behind with the insane amount of children that she had.
That's why six weeks later, Lydia poisoned her youngest three children,
and although all three children died in the same day,
it wasn't ever questioned because again sickness and then it's
part of life in the eighteen hundreds. Yeah, having three
(34:36):
kids die of the exact same thing, the exact same
day just flew under everybody's radar. For some reason. With
fewer quote burdens, Lydia's life improved.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Dude, fuck her.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yeah again, when I say quote like this is it's
taken from her compressions. So improved was also in quotes,
because that's why I said fucked her. Yes, it's it's gross.
But when the next three children developed their own various ailments,
Lydia's you know, like I said, Lydia hated seeing them
would suffer as well, so she poisoned them to end
(35:08):
their suffering. So it does sound like some of the
kids actually did have some sort of it.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Something sounds angel of deathy, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I mean, it's like she.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Hates to see them stuff, like if she truly So
there's some financial aspects to it, yes, then the financial
burden of the kids, but then also there was like
the suffering because there wasn't a financial burden for Horatio's kids.
It was or done as his kids whoever had the
sick child that that was Horatio. Yeah, so Horatio's kid
by then, she already had inheritance from her previous husband,
(35:39):
like what like, So there's so there's no financial burden there.
But she's just like quote unquote putting the kid out
of his misery, right, which to me is more angel
of deathy because she's not getting a financial right.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
I could see it being that way, but I can
also seeing it being that she just didn't.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Like kids, that could I mean, yeah, I mean yes,
that too, like it's such a weird mix. Yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah, you're right, And I didn't even think about it like.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
It because it doesn't have to be like, you know,
one title a weird thing to say, like Angel of
Death or Black Widow blah blah. Like I feel like
she clearly had some traits of both. Yeah, yeah, and
definitely something wrong with her, yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
So it definitely does follow under like all of those. Right.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
It really makes me wonder about when she was a
nurse and going into people's homes and taking care of them.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
I know, I thought I didn't see any mention of that.
I don't. I don't think she really had that many
people that she was a nurse for because she was
so quickly moving on between husbands.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Okay, so I don't.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I don't think she really spent enough time doing the.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Nursing too, or it could be like that person was
on death store step anyway, you know, so it really
wasn't looked into and then yeah, not easily tracked back
then she'd just be like, oh, I was working in
this area, but and all of my.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Patients keep dying, so weird. Yeah, yeah, you're probably right.
It just wasn't as easily tracked because old timey. Yeah,
so Lydia obviously old Hurlbert for the financial security he
could provide. So, of course, after a year of playing
the doting housewife and getting that pesky wheel changed, Lydia
poisoned him as well. And had Lydia just enjoyed her
(37:14):
spoils from Dennis, she probably would have gotten away with
the eight murders that she.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
I think she definitely would have meant it, like no
one was looking into anything.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Right, So had she just been like, okay, I have
you know, I have enough money to back, then had
to been enough to set her for life, you know
what I mean, Like that was a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
It is a lot of money. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
So had she just not see that's what makes me
think like there is something more that Like maybe she
enjoyed killing people, right, you know what I mean? Like
it to me, because she did decide to like immediately
remarry and then continue killing it, there had to have
been like something there that made her want to continue
to do that. So Lydia claimed that she never meant
(37:54):
to kill Horatio, she just wanted to make him sick
of drinking. Whether that's true, or not obviously will never know.
I don't think it's true. I fully think that she's like,
this is another problem in front of me. I'm just
gonna get rid of it so I can try to
move on to the next. But she thankfully in this
that case, like there was actually people like paying attention
and they're like, no, this, there's something wrong here. So
on January eleventh, eighteen seventy three, Judge Sandford sentenced Lydia
(38:19):
to life in prison, and she was to be held
at the Weathersfield State Prison. But Lydia's story doesn't end there.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Not the death penalty. No, I don't see. I guess
if she was only tried for killing one guy, yes.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
But even then, like they killed for much less fact
than like well a.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Woman that do. Yeah, they weren't trying her for the
death of all of the kids.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah, So, like I said, her story doesn't end there.
In June of eighteen seventy seven, Rio was able to
escape prison under the watch of a quote careless matron
with help from friends unsure of who wanted to be
friends with her, but okay, Lydia made it to Providence,
Rhode Island. There, Lydia attempted to enter a relationship with
(39:02):
yet another wealthy widower, but she was apprehended after accidentally
giving a hotel proprietor's wife to two different names. So
instead of just saying like hotel proprietor, like because she's
also the wife also probably had part in the hotel.
I don't know. It just bothers me that it was
this man's wife, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
That just that bothers me.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Anyways, she gave this lady two different names, and that
sent up red flags. So I guess the lady was like, hey,
come check this spitch out. Yeah, so they did.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Oh you know, I'm glad it was the wife because
the guy would probably be like, I don't know, I
don't even remember what you said your name.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Was, honestly, yeah, honestly.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah. The wife was like, I don't know, I'm a
little suspicious of you because right, yeah, So that's I
wonder if she slipped up and accidentally gave her real name.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
And that's when the white wife was like, I've read
about you, you know what I mean, because it's all
in the same area. So Lydia was of course sent
back to prison, where after a several weeks long bout
of illness she died.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Did she arsenic herself?
Speaker 1 (39:59):
No? I saw in one article it mentioned cancer, but again.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
She was probably like, will someone please arsenic me?
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Honestly I was thinking that because like if she didn't
truly didn't like to see people suffer, And now she's suffering, right,
I think it's poetic. Yes, she you know, ended the
same way that she was murdering all of her husbands
and children for. But like, so, she died on May sixteenth,
eighteen seventy eight. So Lydia's eighteen seventy three confession was
(40:25):
published by two different companies, once in seventy three and
then again in eighteen seventy eight. So, like, like I said,
it's out there, you can probably find it. I didn't
care too.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
I didn't care too.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
It is believed that Lydia had poisoned as many as
ten people, and she even had her own nursery rhyme.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Well really, yeah, why did I get so excited about that?
What is it?
Speaker 1 (40:46):
I'm going to attempt to read this, Okay, we know
I'm terrible ireading.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
It starts with Lizzie Borden took an act.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Lydia Sherman is plagued with rats. Lydia has no faith
in cats. Lydia buys some arsenic, and then her husband
gets sick, and then her husband he does die, and
Lydia's neighbors wonder why Lydia moves but still has rats.
And still she puts snow faith in cats. So again
she buys some arsenic, this time her children they get sick.
(41:14):
This time her children they do die, and Lydia's neighbors
wonder why Lydia lists Weathersfield jail and loudly does she
moan and wail. She blames her fate on a plague
of rats. She blames the laziness of cats, but her
neighbors questions she can't deny, so Lydia, now in prison,
must lie.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Was she using rough on rats?
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yes, yes, I had to save it for the end. Yeah,
So that is the case of the Derby poisoner aka
Lydia Sherman. Wow with her very own nursery.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Rhyme that I have never heard of her as a
wild advertisement for rough on rat.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Yeah, but yeah, she was using rough on rats okay wild,
which is crazy to me how she got away with
killing so many people?
Speaker 2 (42:00):
But I mean, like you said, kids died of a
stiff breeze, like in their early eighteen hundred or mid
eighteen hundreds. Yeah, so yeah, and like I feel like
everyone just like minded their own business kind of like, yeah,
she's grieving that stuck. So I'm glad it's not me.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Possibly, I don't know. I think it's just it is
crazy that six kids within the span of a year.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
But if you think about it, like she didn't stay
in the same place after the first three, right, she moved.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I don't think she moved until after shut the fuck up. Yeah,
so first husband died, Yeah, three three kids, then the
next three kids, well okay, all of them but one.
A couple of articles did say that I think she
was like calling in different doctors every time it had passed.
So like, still, how the fuck is this not raising
alarm bells?
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Like, yeah, well, I assume that she left after the
first three and then the second three died and like
seven towns over or something. Yeah, if she stayed all
in the same place, that would be kind of fucking wild, yes,
because like, Okay, the husband died of whatever, so something's
clearly going around, and then the first three kids die
from that, and then.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yeah, I don't think. I don't think she moved until
after that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Children are passed the police for the first husband were
the ones that were like, we don't want to interrupt
the grieving, so maybe.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Who should have I blame them honestly, like, let's do
our jobs and not worry about interrupting grieving because it's
going to happening either way, So you might as well
get your answers on whether somebody was moving, wouldn't you
think like the grieving wife would wouldn't care if you're
trying to make sure it wasn't unless she's the one
that was doing it correct, which is why she rushed
to bury him.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
But yeah, crazy, that was a very Sarah case. And
bring back the rough on rats.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Yeah, okay, so my sources I forgot that word. I'm fine,
this is fine. So my sources are connecticuthistory dot org.
Then there is a Journal of Medicine or a Journal
of Medical Humanities by Howard Fisher article and Nhregister dot
com by Raymond Bendissy.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
This is my worst part is having to say names.
There was a murder Pedia obviously article on it. There
were two.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Different say, obviously I need she killed eight thousand people.
I mean, obviously she's on murder media.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yes, there was two medium articles. There was one by
John Wilford and then one by Jack Patrick Brooks, as
well as a horrorle scene dot com article where wich
is where I found the nursery room.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Okay, and that is that fucking terrible case. That's awful. Yeah,
you're so welcome, You're so welome. Thank you. Well, do
you have anything else?
Speaker 1 (44:38):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
I don't know. Okay, just gonna remind you again to
like subscribe in shas with your friends. But that's all
we have for this week. Thanks for listening. Hey bye,
kay bye
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