Truth Expositors EP85 | Hillsong NYC Experience

In this episode we discuss our visit to Hillsong Church in NYC. We discuss topics such as the environment, the music and the Sermon. Check out the episode and let us know your thoughts.

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Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Welcome listeners to this week's episode.Valencia and my name is Nikia and we
are the Truth Expositors. This podcasthas been brought to you by one one
outreached Christian Ministries, where we seekdaily to preach the Gospel, spread the
love of Christ, and advance theKingdom of God. We aim to abolish

(00:23):
false doctrine, theology, and allfalse teachings that contradict the Word of God.
We will be providing in them explanations, overviews and scripture to explain some
of the most misunderstood truths in theBible. And today we will be talking
about Hellsong Church in New York City. So, Valencia, what do you

(00:47):
think about the music? I thoughtthe music how they sounded, was about
the lady that was singing. Itwasn't that. As far as the songs,
I didn't really like them. Iwould say that the very first one
was probably the you know, thebest one I heard. But in fairness

(01:11):
to though, it wasn't really somuch the songs. I just not certain
wars of songs. I just notinto it afually catch me. But other
than them, they did sound good. I would say that real talk,
I have to agree with you onthat first song. I think that was
the best song. I actually wasreally impressed that they said Jesus. I

(01:33):
don't know. For some reason,I always think that Jesus is not widespread
as you know whatever, But Iwas actually really surprised and impressed in the
sense that they said something about Jesus. It was like a third song too,
I forgot what it was. Maybeyeah, and then God with us,
Christ with Us or something like that, you know, we like a
man you will. I was veryhappy to hear that. But I agree,

(01:56):
I think the music was good.It was. It was very long,
Like you said, it varies.Man, we can't get one fast
song at all that I thought theywere going to a fast especially when parents
talked about the offering, like becausenormally that's when they do outbeat, but
they gotta kept it insane theme.So it was a lot. It was

(02:20):
so as far as music in comparisonto like United Church and even pod you
know how, or even your expectationsgoing into No Hillsong today, how did
that favor you know, with yourown thoughts, and also compared to other
churches. Honestly, it it surprisedme actually a good way because compared to

(02:47):
those, I'm kind of leaning towardsthey were better, you know, as
far as because with United, thosefingers I would say, aren't my type?
Are not as good to me?Pod? You know, we know.
I like the lady I forgot hername the past, his life,
she she could really say. ButI would say Hills their singers, especially

(03:12):
the girl, were really good inthe music. I like them. Like
the music. I agree with that. I think one of hillsongs, and
we actually saw all the documentary,but one of their truer points is music,
you know, you know, Ithink they definitely highlighted that as like
maybe even the foundation and how theyreally got really catapulted into stardom and and

(03:35):
and fame for lack of better term, But I agree their music. I'm
not trying bashed United at all,but there's no comparison. It's it's actually
unfair to compare anything to to Unitedbecause United simply just falls short every single
time. But yeah, and comparedto POD, I still I will still

(03:58):
probably prefer Pod only on the strengthof that lady, the lead singer,
but honestly, the lead singer andhillsong was pretty pretty good too. I
really felt genuine energy and whatever fromher on that one. But I'm not

(04:19):
I actually didn't expect the music tobe that great going in, you know,
because there's been quite a bit oftime since any of us listen to
Hill songs. I was pleasantly surprisedwith that. Yeah, I would agree
that I could see how you knowyou prefer five because that lady really really

(04:40):
couldn't say so. He surpribly surprisesall of that. But I did want
to ask you, uh, whatdo you think about the environment. I'm
surprised with the environment. I actually, uh, I thought it was gonna
be like a big auditorium arena typeof thing that somewhere we can kind of
like kind to get lost and findeout a bit. So I was really

(05:02):
surprised with I guess where the churchis now? I'm not even sure for
change, I just didn't know,you know. But the environment was was
much different. I think it waslike a cultural shock, you know.
Once we found out like we weregoing to be on a second story of
a building on a corner of whatis it, Lackayette, it was really

(05:25):
shocking. Even still, I won'tget too much into it until, you
know, we continue our conversation aboutit. But what are your thoughts about
the environment as well. Uh yeah, I would definitely agree to it was,
you know, shocking because I wasexpecting it, especially what making church
is now big environment, a lotof people, but with this you know,

(05:46):
reservation, and it was a lotof intimate, which is actually I
like or intimate, but I justwas expecting it there, you know,
there to have it, So Iactually would say it was welcoming instead church
I was going to. You didfeel like you were welcome in and that
people were you know friendly, andthe and the nice tidbit to add on

(06:06):
to that too, just kind ofillustrate the friendly part. Uh we didn't
know how to get inside of thisbuilding, and uh Kay and his FA
and his family like let us inand unknowingly, you know, we went
to the where they're having their teammeeting before you know where they're praying and
give the testimony, which was anice touch to you know what I mean

(06:28):
when we were like in that room. Uh when they when she was sharing
her testimony, whatever, she feltreally like it was genuine, you know
what I mean. I felt likeI didn't feel like what you may have
witnessed when you went to Poe talkingabout the celebrity stuff. I didn't.
I didn't sense any of that.I felt I didn't lie. I felt
very genuine in there, you know, like genuine care and stuff like that.

(06:49):
What about you? Oh yeah,I have to agree that it kind
of felt like a family or friends. They actually do seem like you know,
yeah, they're a big family,and everybody was recorded and you know
how clapping, Ashley was telling herstory and stuff. So yeah, it
was definitely different. Not what Iwas expecting from them. So, you

(07:10):
know, I don't know if whathappened or what all the things you hear
about hill Song now, if thatforced on the Commons try to be more
authentic, But you know, Idefinitely think the change was better. Yeah.
I think that's the biggest culture shockof it all, Like like,
first figure out where are we?Like the only reason why we knew we're

(07:30):
in the right place because they didhave like a sign. But the last
time we see anything with like Hillsong, New York, we see, like
you said, lines of people outthe door. We're seeing all this like
fantastic lights, camera shows action,all this stuff, and we get in
there and like you said, it'svery very intimate which is a great vibe.
That's our preference, you know,but it's just not what we're expecting

(07:53):
from them. And I'd like thesame thoughts as you, like what happened?
You know, where were you allbefore this? Because I remember when
we walked up to the building.I mean, I was thinking, this
can't fit this is look at alland I'll make sure that I include like
a picture by the way, whatyou know. But I remember thinking,

(08:16):
I'm like, well, this were'sthe stage and I don't think it's gonna
fit in here. I'm like,well, maybe it's like because it's New
York and it might be like astage somewhere and maybe look bigger on TV.
But it's not it at all.There's no line that I saw,
and actually there it was very veryinteresting. That's probably the most intimate church

(08:37):
I've been in since I was akid. Like, that's very very intimate.
I'm like fifty people. Yeah,and you know, added to the
registration for us, which we had, we realized, you know, what's
we die in there and see howsmaller run and they actually have I guess
a number of seats, so theyactually to register and also you have to
register your kid if you break outone too, and they tell you how

(08:58):
many spots are there, and ifyou can't go registered, some more people
will come in. So I guessthat process makes it a lot better,
so they know how many people arein there. And I didn't seem like
it definitely was different to how themega churches are because you know what united
they kind of take on how thesechurches are now where they're counting hands and
stuff like that, and I didn'tit didn't seem like they were like that.

(09:24):
It like maybe just just made themkind of, yeah, make them
try to be world like also thatany good stuff. So definitely was different.
I have to agree with that.And I believe kind of felt like,
man, what a big fall fromGreece, you know, and like
you said, there's more genuine.It felt more genuine you know in there,
and and and perhaps they and perhapsthey really have changed. But yeah,

(09:50):
like you said, like other churchesready for like mega church and stuff
like that. You know, it'sit was very very shocking to see this.
But my question this is just purelyopinion. What do you think happened,
you know, from from the megaturchs. Do you think it's attributed to
the COVID or you think it's attributedto like the documentary that was released on

(10:11):
now Man, you know, thischurch being in the news so frequently.
I would definitely say it's probably acombination of both in my opinion. But
as I was seeing when we wentin there, we didn't see a lot
of people with masks, and theysaid they weren't really checking for that,
So it makes me think that maybeit's not really COVID. The only thing
I could think, and you know, we had to research it, is

(10:31):
either they're upgrading buildings, maybe justcall them ath to move buildings, or
maybe it you know, finances,who knows, but maybe so we kind
of weeded some people out. Andbecause I did see, like looking at
the people that they genuinely were,it looks like they were there for church,
you know, or warship. Soyeah, maybe it's it did wed

(10:52):
out some of the bad apples,which we won't know. You probably would
take a lot more trips to getthat. But just on that visit,
I have to agree. Really I'mkind of really leaning towards all my eggs
in the basket of I just thinkthey lost a lot of support and I'm
not sure if it's because of justthe documentary because it was just recently released.

(11:15):
You know, I don't think itfell that bad, but I also
think largely to a lot of thescandals too. It's just of course that's
just my opinion, but I reallythink it's just largely because of their name
at this point in time. Ithink we might even seen at the end
of the documentary how like some ofthe churches they ain't been have not been

(11:39):
the same. And remember I forgotone of the speakers said, well,
basically all he's all he's going todo is kind of either change like a
name or kind of like just changedhis tactics, change like affiliations and stuff
like that. Take a listen tothis clip. So whatever every one watching

(12:00):
this should be watching out for isif Hillsung no longer exists as Hillsong,
it will still exist as something else. Hillsong is just on an expansion plan
that they want to keep expanding inAustralia. Their reputation has taken a hit
and what's known now in Australia Ithink is causing them some anxiety, but

(12:26):
that they are hoping to spread theirwings into foreign markets, get away from
some of these history and reach overinto the United States, and you can't
help but reflect on the history ofFrank Houston in that regard. He stepped
away from what happened in New Zealandto expand the market in Australia. Well,

(12:46):
Hillsong, he's stepping away from Australiato expand the market in the United
States. History has a horrible,horrible habit of repeating. I remember listening
to it and made me think,so, he just got to meet other
churches, you know what I mean, He's gonna put a little more a
better mask on this time, youknow, and not the thought that kind
of popped them in here while wewere in there and I was trying to

(13:07):
not be biased by any means andtrying to be very open about the process
and our experience there. But itdidn't me think, I'm like this a
pretense, you know, because thisis how I want to transition. Because
of the sermon. That's really whatcalled me to really think that it might
be true. Uh so, whatare your thoughts about that? Yeah,
I definitely would agree with that too, because when I was looking after the

(13:31):
documentary, seeing that they're closing upa bunch of churches, and I think
this one, this was like theircelebrity well where all the celebrities came that
a VIP setting. So that's definitelya big change for them, and it
would make sense what they're losing support. Like I think people was one of
the first ones ago and whoever elsethat we used to go there, a
lot of them did so maybe becauseof that, and I seem like they're

(13:54):
pulling out of people are pulling outof the dance working. The pastors were
leaving. Well, I really thinkthat's why they're so small now and maybe
in a change for the better,you know, because of that. I
can't well say as much with thesermon, but we'll get into that.
But but I do beat them.Maybe the support, like you said,

(14:16):
and you know, the scandals probablymade them a lot more a lot smaller.
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(14:37):
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(15:00):
Everybody, this is Nikkia Trader,the co host of the Troop Expositives
podcast, my ministry partner and cohosts Dealencia, and I want to thank
you for checking out our podcast.If you have missed any episode, feel
free to go on any one ofour platforms such as YouTube, Spotify,
Apple Music, Amazon Music, andmany others. We want to thank you

(15:22):
for your ongoing support and prayers aswe continue to abolish false doctions and teachings
that contradict God's word. It isour passion and it's also our pleasure to
be able to proclaim God's word tothe world. And you know, I
agree with that, and I wantto kind of go back to about some

(15:43):
of the people like in the environmenttoo, and I hate to compare it,
but I feel more genuine love andacceptance and it's not about that when
you go to church. I mean, it's about that, but that's like
a sub topic of the bigger thing. You know. We go there to
worship the Lord and give you andpraise and you know, fellowship with one
another enjoint efforts to praise him.But I felt more love and acceptance from

(16:07):
this year than United And they bothhave the same sign welcome home, welcome
home. And and I know wedid a podcast on you know, United
Church, but just having that experiencethere and here, they want all in
your business. They won't try andget you sign up for stuff, give

(16:30):
me, give me this gimmick thatIn fact, when they got to the
offering, I think thought it wasgonna be a little bit you know,
like a little a little mini sermon. Uh, But instead it was just
you know, text give or whateverand if not, you know whatever.
You know, it was very nonchalant. I was really surprised about that in
comparison to like United Church, whatyou were telling me, they were here

(16:52):
begging for money for the milk campus. Yeah, even like that. She
said that if you are new here, don't feel pressure to get you know.
She was more for the people.But those that you know have it
given. You know, you cando it online. So then it wasn't
a big emphasis on come on giveyou know for a whole you know,
a big deal about it even peopleare new, you know how when you're

(17:12):
a new person, they want youto get up and stand up, which
I get why, but they didn'tmake it make that an emphasis either,
so you could be no raise orhand and that's it didn't put a spotlight
on you. So I did likethat. The people are like, like
you said, friendly with the manand his family who basically let us go
ahead open the door for us.And we found out later that you know,

(17:34):
they're actually a part of the church. And they didn't ask us no
questions. They just helped us getin. The lady said and saw me.
You know, when we did thelittle meet and greet, everybody seemed
friendly. And besides us, whowas like sitting in there trying to take
it all in, no one elsewho was like looking at us. Everybody
was intently focused on worship, intentlyfocused on the sermon, intently just focus

(17:59):
on whatever they were focused on.And I can't assume lose God, but
you know, I just know itwasn't they want proposed on other people.
And there was there was even alove of respect there too for where they
were at. I gotta admit thatI didn't see many phones out that I
would see like in typical churches nowadays. Of course I had my phone out

(18:22):
because I'm just trying to capture alot of stuff. But I didn't really
see that a lot from others,and I was really intently looking around.
Again, like you said, peopleare very friendly, very helpful, but
didn't like necessarily it didn't seem fake. I think that's the biggest thing.
Like I hate to keep saying united, but even pot does this a little

(18:44):
bit. You know, you cantell where the genuine is this is.
You can tell where it's like,I gotta do this because I want people
to see Christi's love by saying getname hello. You know, it was
just none of that, you know, none of it. I didn't feel
like any evil or sinister vibe inthere. Yeah, we're definitely not saying
that, you know, everybody shouldgo to Hillstone now, but but it's

(19:07):
just a difference, and it's I'mthinking it's mainly because of the scandals and
stuff, and you know, maybethey're going to go in a better direction
because when we've seen that in thatdocumentary, they had a lot of issues.
So this was a shock to us. So we don't want people to
seem like now we're saying support hillsong, because we would definitely have to go

(19:29):
a couple more times or hear otherpeople saying to say the hell they turn
over a new leads. But butafter this experience, we're it's hoping that
maybe they maybe they will, they'llkeep this part of it, at least
that part of it. But wedo want to get to the sermony part
as well. Know what were yourthoughts on on the sermon. I'm gonna
say I thought it was like aTed talk. I think it was equivalent

(19:52):
to the Ted Talk. And Ithink this is where from today's experience,
I think it just kind of fellreally like a plummited, the whole experience
plumbited at the sermon. I thinkin itself it's it's a really good message.
She talked about Fijia in chapter two, verses eight through ten, which
was the core the core scripture.But yeah, I didn't. I felt

(20:17):
more christ in the first song,in all the songs, more than I
felt in the sermon, which issupposed to be the foundation. And I
just did not get that. I'mgonna be very vague right now, just
so the conversation can naturally develop.I don't want to just like, ah,
we'll say everything, but yeah itfell short. Yeah it definitely did.

(20:40):
That's and you know, that's thebiggest part of it, because you
know, the singing and frightingess andall that, it's great, but that's
not what you go there for.You do go for fellowship, but the
main part as a sermon, youwant to you know, you're there to
hear the word of God, youknow, so yeah, that has to
be one point to me or reallynothing else matters. And yeah, I
think pizza sermon definitely goes for it. And I just felt I was nearing

(21:03):
more about her than I was aboutJesus. Like she she did me Jesus,
but it was more like bringing ittogether, okay Jesus, you know,
but it was more about her lifeand her experiences, and it became
too related board too more about her. It was kind of funny because I
don't remember her saying Jesus at all. Now I'm be could she. I'm
not saying she did or didn't.I just didn't hear it, and that's

(21:26):
probably because she didn't say it thatmuch, if at any time. And
no, you don't have to likesay Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, you
know throughout the whole sermon. Butit is bad, like you said,
when we we don't know that woman, don't know her name, but I
know her family, you know,I know they went skiing, God knows
wherever they went skiing, and andher her kids can ride the Black Diamond.

(21:47):
She couldn't. Well, yeah,we know her kids run. They
like she's from Australia or whatever,she went to England. But that's fine
because you know what I'm what Ieven write or stuff. I got to
put myself, like to relate itlike I'll give you like a personal story,

(22:08):
but it shouldn't be the full mainfocus. Like if you're using it
to connect, that's fine to me. And it wasn't you know so much
her saying something because you know aboutherself and her kids, but I shouldn't
hear like ninety percent about you.And then Sephard said, you want to
add God or juz or whatever.I agree. I totally agree. And

(22:30):
I remember thinking when she kind offirst started how I'm like, okay,
can't give her. I had tocalm myself down a little bit, like
here, okay, they're talking aboutthemselves, and I'm thinking, you know
what, like Tony Evans, youjust saw him last month, Oh this
mom' sorry and whatever was late lasmom. It was we saw him within

(22:53):
a mother ago and I remember likehe told stories about himself. So I'm
like, okay, that is whetherit's a biblical thing or whatever thing,
it's a thing, you know,and then that's acceptable that I started thinking,
why is it? Why don't Inotice it when he doesn't? And
I noticed it when United doesn't,Hillsong doesn't. And what I resolved was,

(23:18):
you know, when when Tony Evanswas given his stories and stuff like
that, it was the bedrock ofwhat was. It wasn't. It wasn't
the message. It was not evensupporting the scripture is to illustrate, like
you're saying, as an example ofwhat this looks like based on scripture.
And that's I feel like that's thebiggest difference. I didn't get you going

(23:40):
skiing with your kids on the BlackDiamond and your identity crisis. We all
go through identity crisis. And I'mnot saying that she shouldn't have a you
know, a reason for you know, talk about that, but we all
go through identity crisis. But I'mlike, why is that the core thing
when reference to Ephesian chapter two versuseight through ten, I did not get
that out of that. Yeah,I agree. And even once she put
up the what she says, sheput up the words of the scripture.

(24:06):
Even when she put the words ofthe scripture, I thought that after the
in she would saying and you know, God, you know kind of changed
me or got changed by thinking orread it. But it was more like,
you know, she put those wordsup and she eventually got over,
like you didn't. That was amoment to really tell how God helps you
get through like you got. Likewith Tody Evans, he would have put

(24:29):
that up, but he would havetied it into how God could do.
But God did, like the foundationeverything ties in and it's more like,
yeah, it even comes back toit then and we know everything in his
story that he said they have tiedinto God's word. And it's like we
we didn't get that with her.We're like here story to talk about schemeing
to talk about England, Australia.You kind of lose sight of Oh this

(24:49):
is a sermon about God, thisis about Jesus. You never lose that
with Tony Heavans because even if hegoes on a long run on the story,
henna give you the same amount onJesus. And I just didn't really
get that with the leader. Iagree with that, and the kind of
piggyback off of that too. WhenTony Evans shares, it's like ice.

(25:11):
It's isolated and yet connected. Likehe could tell his story and still illustrate
the point referencing the Bible without eventalking about the Bible. You know it's
coming from like a spiritual biblical place. Even telling that story about he told
a lot of stories really, buthe told the story I think something.
I'm talking about him and apple atthe fair and stuff like that or something
like things like that, and wewrote about it. By the way,

(25:33):
this is a complete plug on theblog post on one one ocministries dot com
website. Check it out. Buthe's like a standalone testimony, and the
discernment is so when he's talking aboutthe the rock and the foundation, the
houses built on different soils and stuffthat could staying alone like it just it

(25:57):
was work in harmony. But bothof them could have been separate and still
illustrated the same very same point.This check over here. I don't know
what the point was. I thinkthe sermon was called Poetry in Motion.
Again, I didn't get the poetrypart. I don't I don't get I
don't get the emotion part. Idon't get nothing. And I'm still confused,

(26:18):
I'll be honest. Yeah, andthen I know we're talking about hills
all but just to go back tothat too, if Tony ads, I
like to even when he was talkingabout the trip with him and his wife
and you're you're sitting there like,oh, what is this hat though?
But it always does. It's likehe talked about that leading building and he
said at what without anson like itall times, like he talked about the

(26:41):
that toy he got, I forgotwhat it was, yeah, and that
all. Yeah, you know,he used human and everything. But it
always turns like the guy and theylike further emphasized the you know, the
word of guy and he never neverforgets to go back to that. And
I mean she like got away fromit, never connected today who never connected

(27:06):
anything to me? It just wasa bunch of points. She spent a
lot of time on the community andhow we're meant for what it meant to
be in a community or yeah,yeah, law, which I don't know
if I agree with that, butwell we'll talk about that. But yeah,
I just this was lost and itwas easy for me to not that

(27:30):
I don't, but it was easyto dress. And I relay said that
because one of the most fascinating partsabout this, and this is not a
bash thing, you just this isthis is a commonality in churches today that
that message today, whatever the messageactually was, we could relate to her
testimony. Oh no, we hearda lot of it today. We also

(27:53):
were women or at the time likeyoung people who want through identity crisis,
didn't feel comfortable how to do positivefrom Asian kind. Yeah yeah, high
school. Yeah, we know,we hear more about Ruths than Jesus and
and we know if anybody helped herwith Ruth, you know, Ruth help
her. But we And I wasthinking, I'm like, man, it

(28:14):
sounds like a lot of me andValencia's story, you know, it sounds
like you think we will be engagedand relating. And I remember thinking,
I'm like, where could I getcoffee from? And and I'm not gonna
lie, But then I'm like,this won'ts the same me, and you
know, I feel like when yougo to church, you should be trying
to get something that sustained you,or at least something that called you to

(28:37):
go home and open that same scriptureand dig a little deeper than what the
twenty five minutes we got, Wellwe got about an hour, I feel
like today, but we should beable to dig a little deeper. And
there was nothing dig dig about atall. Yeah, I think that's what
it is too, because like yousaid, we don't relate to the stories.
But it's like she didn't give usno conclusion for the stories, like

(29:00):
like, you suffered through this andstuff, but why who helps you through
it? What about somebody suffering?Now they probably can relate like yeah,
I have I identity problem to stuffor you know, I feel like,
but how did you? How didyou get out of it? Like let's
talk about that. What brought youout of a roof? So you're basically
what you're saying is you need afriend that he's call you all TI and

(29:22):
that's gonna get you out of feellike you feel belonged, like you belong
because I didn't get Jesus did hehelp you through it? I think the
most that we got out of thatshe read a body or something like,
yeah, that's what she put onthe wall. Yeah, she didn't say

(29:45):
that about prayer. You know,like I just don't know, because me,
you can relate to a lot ofwhat she is saying in her own
personal testimony. How did you overcome? And how are you overcoming? Because
it's a process. I did thenumber one, which is praying. You

(30:06):
know, you have to get thatalone time that uh that work on your
relationship without because you could. Icould talk to you all day and talk
to her, but if you don'thave that relationship, God's gonna keep happening
him. So, I mean,that's that's serving there. That I was
there and I was struggling, Ididn't get no help, Like I'm I

(30:27):
had to go one on one andask her, well is that you know?
How how did you work through that? And and and then the sad
part is, like we said alreadyjust said, like the conclusion is Ruth
in this positive affirmation based on thisone scripture, she just kind of you
know, harped on. And Itried positive affirmations, I really did.

(30:48):
I've even tried putting scriptures all overthe place and I'm not saying that's not
effective, but it has to godeeper than that. Like you said,
prayer really goes a long way.Being like she was said, being connected,
that's the way we get the ruth. But also reading the Bible,
you know, because you're not gonnaknow who you are. You're not gonna
feel comfortable in yourself until you knowwho God is. You know you're not.

(31:11):
You don't have enough in you tolove yourself, to accept yourself,
you know, the right biblical way. I believe, you know, unless
you know and realize that God isso wonderful that he decided to to you
know, to die for you.You know what I mean that, I
think that really is what unlocks everysingle thing, and also can I wasn't

(31:33):
about to go back to the scriptureher putting it on on the wall.
I kind of I was thinking aboutthe prayer you know, the movie Prayer
Room. I think that's the warroom, war Room, and how she
put him up there. But shewas gone in that room and she was
praying, and I thought that's whatshe was going to like talk about,
but she basically that I didn't.I don't know how she summed that up.
I know, she kept going inthere looking at the stan. She

(31:56):
said it. Over time, youknow, she started to believe it basically,
Yeah, so I don't Yeah,that's what I'm saying. Like a
lot of her stories didn't have inclusions. I don't know how how she am
coming, and that was the timeto say God. But yeah, I
was just as I have to agree. And yeah we left a little earlier.
But I don't think it was gettingany better because she was actually done

(32:17):
talking about herself. Now she's justtalking about her kids. To go into
the library. So I really don'tthink anything was gonna be resolved after that.
I think we got what we gotfrom it, Ruth in that scripture,
I think that's just about it.But there was one thing, like
a note I wrote down on here, and one thing I didn't notice that

(32:37):
they emphasized a lot about the loveof Christ. And not that that's a
bad thing, but I noticed,like when we were like before the actual
sermon, we went there with theteam leaders, she emphasized the love of
Christ. Then by giving her testimony. Uh, it was a lot in
the songs too. I can't evensay it was in the sermon because I

(33:00):
don't know what was in that sermonother than her talking about herself, but
within the prayers and stuff. Andagain that's the one thing I absolutely love.
Every time we ask each other thatat least like every year, what
we think we love about, youknow, God and their thing like that,
it's it's always the love of Christ. But like that's you say,
the love of Christ and showing loveand stuff like that define what the love

(33:22):
of Christ is. I don't rememberhearing too much. He died for us
that that's in full display why westill sinners Christ for an I mean,
it's just like that's not all thereis. It's like they just that just
heal song, like everybody he's dancearound instead of getting to the court of
sin. They want to dance aroundeverything. Oh, focus focused on you

(33:46):
know. It's more than that.It's more. You can't how you're gonna
accept Christ's love. You don't knowwhy he loves you. You know what
I mean, what he did tolove you and displayed that love.