The Warped Shelf - Dark Night and Mask of the Phantasm

Merry Christmas and Happy 30th to the first theatrical animated Batman film. We're talking this and Paul Dini's comic book autobiography for a rounded discussion about this movie and what it and the people who made it mean to us.

Episode #153

https://youtu.be/vAF0dbriUoI

Episode Transcript

(00:31):
Hello, and welcome to the WarpShow. I'm Frank Duran, I'm Deshaun
Basquez, and today two artists decidewhat belongs on your provable warpshll yep.
That can be anything from comics tomovies to TV shows, So just general
or anything that really moves you andwe're keeping with you. What could that

(00:52):
be literally physical or just with youin spirit, especially with streaming services continue
to fuck us day our Christmas episode. Weirdly, we're doing one that's not
exactly Christmas theme. It's it's nota Christmas movie, but it is the

(01:14):
thirtieth anniversary of the movie coming out, so we might as well just slamp
it in there. Baby. It'sone of my and I don't say this
lightly, one of my favorite moviesof all time, Mask and the Fantasm.
We're talking about Batman, Mask ofthe Phantasm, and as a companion

(01:34):
piece to it, to kind ofpison up, we're also talking about Dark
Knight, a true Batman story thatit written by one of the writers of
this movie, Paul Dee taught andin the Dark Knight takes place during the

(01:55):
production of Yes, Maskus Fantasm.But so I I think this is kind
of like a two that they're peasin the ponds. They're combo. They
Yeah, there there is a realI had read this years ago, around
the time like the trade at firstcome out, and I like recommend it,
just like, dude, this isgood. You need to read this.

(02:15):
It's like very deeply personal ties intolike the production of the show and
especially the movie. And this iswhy I pushed it to you when we
were like, oh, we shoulddo Basket of the Phantasm because this Christmas
Day it will be thirty years old. I know, right, So I'm
I'm I'm thirty two, so I'ma little bit older than this movie.

(02:39):
But I I grew up with batBatman the animated series, and this is
one of those movies that I sawvery early on. It's not only does
Batman the animated series like shape mychildhood, but like this movie does you
know? Like so it's so thisin a combo with a deep and moving

(03:04):
story from the writer who gave mesuch an important part of my life is
awesome. Yeah, Paul deiniy isyou know it's a good episode when you
watch the animated series. This guyright here, I do have the bigger
boxeup, but it's easier to holdback. Second, Oh Boy, signed
by the late great Kevin Conroy,Rest in peace, fucking my Batman,

(03:30):
Our Batman. Yeah, absolutely,But you always knew it was going to
be a good episode when Paul Deiniwrote it, like beyond the stuff that
everyone knows that he created Harley Quinnand the like. But you also have
those like staples when people bring upthe best episodes of the show, like
Heart of Ice, which was thething that completely reinvented mister Freeze. A

(03:50):
second we follow. I have abunch of Paul Deni cock books sitting behind
me, not only Mad Love,but also Private Case books he did a
while back. And then one ofmy favorites is The Black Canary and a
to They are really great, andI would have said that was my favorite,

(04:13):
like Paul Deney comic before that,I would have been like, I
would have been like, hey,that's that's a lot of fun. That's
what I other than Mad Love,of course, because I feel like Mad
Love is a you know, it'sgreat in cock book form and in animation
form, but I think that thisis a book that fre fires on all

(04:35):
cylinders, and uh is able totell uh a story of pain, which
is very hard to do. Youknow, it's like a tale of self
tragedy that you're kind of like,you know, I remember years ago,

(04:55):
like yeah, around like a decadeago, back when we were still in
college, like just after it,when he was going around like talking about
this book, back when fat Manon Batman was still a thing, and
it was specifically interview focused on likeBatman related or comic book related creators before
he just became a general nerd podcast. It's funny that we followed in that

(05:16):
in those footsteps for that long.Yeah, Paul Denea came on the show
and talked about it and how hehad been like kind of crafting it for
like the better half of like sincethe accident had happened, and it was
just you know, it's tough togo to that personal place you sort of
like work on it slowly and liketry to work it out. Yeah.
So I remember him talking about itthere before the book had even come out,

(05:40):
And it's even in the dedication here, it's like the second person he
gets, he dedicates deepest gratitude KevinSmith, who prompted me to talk about
the mugging on his podcast and forconvincing me it was a story worth writing.
You rocks her. So like,definitely Kevin Smith's fat Man on Batman
has a big influence on this,this book getting done, which I think

(06:05):
is awesome because you know, welove Kevin Smith here. Yeah, and
it's really cool. I can't rememberwhat school it was, but I know
Kevin Smith and Pauldini went to thesame school for a bit. Really yeah.
I can't remember if it was likeelementary, middle or whatever, but
I know they have like been inschool together at one point. Uh So,

(06:27):
kind of let's uh, let's touchon why this book is amazing before
we go into why the movie isiconic. Uh So, right off the
bat we already kind of said PaulDean, but don't forget you got a
boy everyone, so underneath Oh myhundred bullets baby, one hundred bullets baby,

(06:51):
this is Okay. Hundred Bullets isa fantastic read. Fantastic read.
But the man is able to renderso many great styles and a mix of
of of of of a lot ofuh like different emotions, and he's got

(07:14):
this fantastic visual style that if youhaven't had the pleasure of reading hundred Bullets
or any other Edward Russo reads,which I have actually have a ton of
Edward Russo stuff on my shelf here, and I feel, yeah, there's
also that that Wolverine bookie did aswell. I think it's like what I

(07:35):
own from him. But I dounderstand what you're saying, Like his style
like is very fluid and ranges thegamut between like realism and also just like
heightened almost let mel you describe almostpulpy, I would say pulpy, yeah,
like, and he's able to kindof mix that in here because there's

(07:57):
a lot of Pauldini to about howhe not only you know, uses characters
from pop culture to like obsess over, but like as a distraction method,
as like kind of imagining they're thereand uh and and that leads to literally

(08:18):
them like manifesting and showing up.And what that means is you get great
panels like this where you have like, uh, you know, a very
realistic Edward Russo character room of characterswith like a Pulpy Joker sitting in the
middle, you know, like andthat like keeps happening over and over again,

(08:39):
where people characters are brought in andand you know, in different styles
and the way they like pop aslike a juxtaposition to the more like monochromatic
look of everyone else. It's awesome. I love it, and they even
he even kind of you know,keeps it even is able to change his

(09:00):
own style with with these with youknow, like panels like this where it's
like dark and brooding. But thenof course when we cut out to the
hyper realistic narration, it's it's completelyalmost different, you know, like uh,
you know, it's very like brightand warm. It's it's because it's
from the present. It's and itmakes sense because it's a present day recollection,

(09:24):
so you're starting from a much likebrighter place in his life. Yeah,
exactly. And I and I mean, of course it starts right off
with the invisible kids stuff that theyhave right at the beginning of this book,
where he's as a young child beinglike I was invisible kid. I
didn't want to be seen, anddo you have like mood. I was

(09:48):
reading this being like this is ahuge Dishaun mood book. I was I
was like, I was like,I was like, there's a couple of
things there. I was like,heh, there you go. But I
thought. I thought that I wasgreat that like he's doing simple cartoonish styles
for to depict himself and super realisticfor like everyone else, because he's a

(10:09):
nobody, you know, like,yeah, it's it's very interesting, you
know. And then he like whenhe goes up to his room and is
is full of imagination, he losesthat simple style and is to a realistic
style, emoting that like he's becomeshimself through his imagination, you know,

(10:33):
through his art and what he does. And I feel like that's such a
cool visual it's like in the writing, but it's obviously such a cool visual
motif going into this book. AndI mean Paul Deini of course is the
king of of that, but alsoEdward Russou has to be. You gotta
be commended. This is a Thisis a fantastic book because it's one of

(10:56):
those that it's do you see thisit's not that big. Me and de
Shawn both reread it. You rereadit last night. I read it for
the first time this morning. It'sa super simple read. It's one of
those that like I kind of youknow, I would say it's one of
those that you like kind of kindof you get ready in front of like

(11:18):
something warm, you know, afire or whatever, and you read this
book and it's it's it's like adeep personal journey, which I feel like
Paul Deny is so good at doingthe fantastic, the fantasy, the pulp
that to see his like super realisticside is fantastic. Yeah, and getting

(11:41):
into some like very deeply personal stuffeven beyond the initial like altercation that the
book can just right. So yeah, I mean that's definitely I think that
has to be said about this bookis that you know, you're like,
okay, so he gets beat up. What is the rest? I was
about to say we should contextualize itfor people who were unfamiliar. Yeah,

(12:03):
So, like, I mean,the Dark Knight, the true Batman story
is very much Paul Deny is cominghome one night and gets mugged, and
the definitely the muggers were looking foran excuse to kill him and just like

(12:24):
beat the shit out of him andreally just absolutely wrecked the guy and had
to do like face surgery and abunch of other things. And of course
like nobody, it just doesn't nobody, the LAPD doesn't catch them, doesn't,
you know, can't find them,just kind of gives up on,

(12:46):
you know, anything for his mugging, and it's kind of like he has
to deal with this as like aBatman writer, where it's like, you
know, you know a lot ofjustice and all, yeah, I write
stories where Batman will always come inand save the day. I don't really
feel that much anymore after this incident, and just that idea of just like

(13:07):
I don't even know if I canlike write Batman anymore, if I even
like believe in it, right,And I thought that was I think that's
such an interesting, so great comingfrom somebody who you know, lives in
it, you know, like it'sso interesting to be like, I don't
know if I can do that,And it's funny how of course nineties Hollywood

(13:33):
was like, so you'll be backafter this attack in like a week,
right, you'll be back and you'lljust uh, you'll be fine, right,
You'll be you can just keep going, Pauldini, And he was like,
no, no, no, becausethey did they It was I can't
imagine, you know, it's likethey The way he describes it is so

(13:58):
like harrowing, it's so just likeit's so real and so devastating and one
of those things where it just aviolation of just somebody on the street coming
up and beating the shit out ofyou for no reason really and like altering
your life really, Uh is isis crazy? You know, like it's

(14:24):
it's it's like the to come backfrom it is going to be very hard,
you know. Like and they weredefinitely like right away being like,
yeah, you can come back andwrite the risk of mask of the phantasm
scenes right, and he's like,yeah, yeah. The way Alan Burnett
is portrayed here, it's very likefirm but fair. Yes, it's just

(14:48):
like I care, but also he'slike, but also we have deadlines and
ship. Yeah. I think thathe's not I think Pauline, he's not
trying to paint him as a villain. I think he's trying to paint him
as one of his good buddies andtrying to get him back on the horse,
you know, like instead of justletting him slump into nothingness, you
know. Like, And I thinkthat that's super interesting to see the dynamic

(15:11):
of that. I think that thisis a super interesting read because I just
read then The Men Who Created Gundam, which was very much in a similar
way where it was just like tellingbehind the scenes of of Gundam how it

(15:33):
was made. But like that theysay it right at the beginning, that's
not what this is. And Ithink that that's important to say, is
that that's not what this book is. It's not just like, hey,
here's how it was made. No, this is a man struggle with with
with being basically like violated through physicalviolence. You know. It's just like

(15:58):
Jesus and uh, and then itgives way to just like all the mounting
like self doubt and something he wasgoing through, like it tackles his love
life, it tackles his own selfharm. Yes, I thought that was
quite interesting that, like, youknow, he's talking. Uh, it's
funny, he's like talking. It'salways his his psyche talking to him through

(16:26):
the Batman character Batman characters. Solike there's poison ivy being like you you
know, you're all worried about youknow, like your face being destroyed.
But last year you cut yourself upbecause of a girl, you know,
like and and and he realized,you know, he gets he gets to
realize that how over dramatic and notworth it that was, you know,

(16:52):
like and it's or even that bitwith where you actually see the script for
Mask of the phanfasm that bit ofbeing like it seems like you start a
relationship with them just because you knowyou won't have a future with them.
And then that being called out wasjust like, oh, you're writing about
me, aren't you. And that'sa line in the movie. That's that

(17:14):
was great. I thought that wasgreat. I was like, okay,
all right, and it's uh,I I think it's it's it's one of
those things that this this story isso it made me want to cry constantly.
It's just full of these uh itfeels like Scott Pilgrim where it's like
these deep realizations that Paul Deini wasn'tyou know, maybe Batman himself, you

(17:41):
know, like but you know,like and and you know, like that's
not a terrible thing, you know, like not where there's it's an impossible
thing to be Batman, you know, like you know, it's something to
realize. But it's also one ofthose things. It's a it's an inspiration,
it's a it's a it's just itcan lift you up more than it

(18:03):
can tear you down, basically,Like and I thought that was quite interesting,
you know, like, and Iabsolutely love that kind of like dealing
with the the the mythos of Batman, but also what that means on a

(18:25):
personal level, you know, notonly to Pauldini, but like as readers,
you know, like what what canBatman mean? And these characters mean
to to to us and to Pauldinitoo, even in the darkest of times,
you know, like, you know, like because it seems like it

(18:45):
seems so silly when you're when you'relike, I'm mugged and I'm like thinking
about Batman. What would if Batmanhave done? You know, like or
like thinking about you know, likewhat you know poison Ivy would say to
me or something you know, orwhat Joker would say at this moment,
you know, like it seems sosilly, but it's so uh. It's

(19:06):
one of those things where he establisheshow he you know, he grew up
with it. He knows those peoplejust as much as he knows family.
When he's writing those characters, it'syeah, and similar, personifying those characters
in like different stages of his mentalityas he's going through this all makes sense.
I remember him talking about that onthe podcast where he talked about like

(19:29):
what each character represents as an emotionthat he's going through. And the reason
why Harley Quinn doesn't really show upin bits and pieces until the very end
is because to him, like HarleyQuinn is just like it's fun, it's
bliss, it's joy. Yeah,he's just having a good time with it.
She only shows up when he's finallylike okay, you know, like

(19:49):
it's I really enjoyed Penguin as hiskind of alcoholism, just being like yeah,
you know, like pushing him onthe bender and and you know,
kind of Joker being this kind oflike what does it all matter anyways?
You know, sort of thig alwaysfor him. Yeah, like the nihilism,

(20:11):
the nihilism and Batman being the kindof I love Batman. It's funny
because like, you know, hedid he does justice to Batman here.
You know. It's not just beinglike, you know, like, oh
Batman didn't help me, fuck Batmansort of thing. It's like one of
those things where he kind of hasthose conversations with Batman and it feels so

(20:33):
fair, you know, like what'scoming out of Batman's mouth, which is
funny because it's like, well,of course it does. It's coming out
of Baldini you know, he's beenwriting Batman forever, you know. Yeah,
some of the best episodes of theactual show. Also wrote Batman beyond
Return of the Joker, wrote thefirst two Arkham Games, and the third
Arkham Game definitely suffered from him notbeing there, yep, yep, yep.

(20:57):
So and I I still haven't playedthe third one just because I've kind
of been like just because it's alot of fun but story wise until it
takes a dip and a hass Okay, I meant Gotham City Sirens was fucking
rough as ship story wise, soI mean, just go Knights God.

(21:21):
Yeah, sorry, Gotham Knights.I'd play a Gotham City Sirens. Yeah,
that'd be a good time. Butuh but it's one of those things
where I really loved the character ofBatman in Paul Deaney's life here, which
is a weird way to say it, but like is that Batman doesn't give

(21:42):
up on him and does it iskind of like pushing him to be better,
kind of in the way that AlanBurnett is trying to push him to
be better, you know, Like, and I thought that was interesting and
like, uh so it's like kindof funny because you have all the villains
being all these like vices for him, like you know, poison Ivy pointing

(22:03):
all his like relationship problems, andthen you know like and and and Joker
just fucking with him, Penguin beingalcoholism, you know, like, yeah,
Batman is almost just like objectivism,yes, where it's like Deani's just
like I can't really be objective rightnow. And I really and then I

(22:25):
really loved that, you know,him kind of playing it out at the
end here where he like kind oftalks to all the villains and kind of
you know, kind of deals withit all, deals with all his demons.
And I think that that's Uh,I didn't think that would happen in
the book, you know, like, and I thought that was great.
One of the best scenes in thisentire book though, goes absolutely shout out

(22:49):
to the Sandman pitch scene. That'sthat ship is awesome. Uh literally,
Pauldini, Uh. They have ascene where Pauldini to Alan Burnett h a
episode where Sandman Uh basically Batman diesdeath tries to meet with Uh as Batman

(23:14):
and UH and Dream steps in andis like, no, no, no,
he's one of mine. Instead ofyou can't like take him. He's
part of the dream realm more thanhe is, you know, a part
of life, yes, you know, like yeah, life and death.
They called him the Cheater and Ithought that was fun. I thought that

(23:34):
was great, But I really ithas. It's definitely that same mentality of
like Batman can't wear either a greenlantern or a Sinestra core ring because he's
such a balance of willpower and fearthat they both cancel each other out,
so he can't wear it for long. That's funny. I do love that

(23:56):
ship. But I really like this, Like it's like him showing off this
kind of like gratty cool pitch thatwe never got to see, and I
really enjoy that, you know.Yes, although I do get Alan Burnett's
side of it, where it's justlike this might be a little too metaphysical,
But then I think about episodes likePerchance to Dream, Yeah right and

(24:18):
stuff, and you're like, Idon't know, I feel like it probably
could have worked. And if it'snot, if it's not punchy enough,
there's definitely an things you do.It's very easy to just ride a fight
in. You can add action hereand there. He doesn't stop there with
like the proposed ideas that he's sharing, like the other proposed idea that I
absolutely love that. He's just likeit's kind of more of a mental thing

(24:41):
for me. It's not something thatactually would have happened in the show.
But he has this great conclusion inBatman Beyond where Batman just keeps the Joker
in a in a fucking uh jailcell in the Batcave, just like keeps
him in a time you know,like a one brick room and just like
feeds him and everything. But thatis that is it, you know,

(25:03):
like that's where he's kept. AndI thought that was such like a great
idea because bat and Batman's immediately like, yeah, but that's too vindictive,
and he's like exactly, like likehe's like exactly that, you wouldn't do
that, you know, Like soit's just really for me, and you're
like, I kind of love that, like a writer being like, eh,

(25:25):
this is not something the character thecharacter would do, but this is
what I wanted to do as awriter. And yeah, there are a
couple instances of that, like thebit where he thinks about like buying a
gun and he gets a Walter andgoes to the shooting range with it,
and the idea of like Batman takingthe gun from it and actually getting the
targets right, and him being likethese, He's gonna be real pissed if
I have you using a gun likethis. He's like, there's a difference

(25:48):
between wanting to use it to hurtsomeone and knowing how to use it.
Yes, I there's there's not onlyis I just want to like it's hard
to like sum this up and kindof give it to you guys, other
than saying like this is something tobe read. This is a great Batman
story. Is It's not only agreat auto biourful auto bio. It's basically

(26:15):
a memoir in comic book form,and it works better in this medium than
it would have if it was justwritten in pros yeah, or animated in
some in some way, you know, like I really love this. I
think that this is it's a extremelygenius use of the comic book form.

(26:40):
It's deeply personal story that is hardto write, and he gets it across
in a way that not only dowe understand, but like are you know,
are able to like kind of goalong with him, you know,
like along on this journey and Ithink that that's uh super It just shows

(27:02):
the genius of Pauldini, you know, yeah, and it speaks to like
what you may not know about whatcreators are going through when they're making the
shit. You like, yeah,I think that's It's a cool behind the
scenes story in the way you wouldnever think, you know, like,
you know, most people are readingbehind the scenes stories like the man who
made Gundam and you're like, Ijust want to know how what happened when

(27:25):
they made the first show, youknow, like or they like, that's
not what this is. But insome ways this is far better than them,
you know, like because this it'slike you get almost a deeper look
at the process in that way.I really had a crazy time thinking about
the writer's room after reading this,you know, like the writer's room of

(27:48):
Batman and animated series. I'm like, that must have been crazy. Yeah,
you know, like that must havebeen nuts just being like all these
i mean they didn't know it atthe time, but all these like fucking
legends just killing it in the writingroom and you're just like, yeah,
just not even really knowing what theyhave. Like sure, there's a success,
but you know, you never knowwhen something's going to be iconic until

(28:08):
you give it some time. Andalso I'm sure a lot of the time
they were more focused on just like, I just have to get this done.
We have a deadline. That wasthe thing with Mask of the Phantasm,
like it was a rushed production whilethey were working on the show.
Still, Yes, several times it'sbrought up that he works on several scenes
where he's writing it, but likethey hold off just to wait for him,

(28:32):
which is very nice of him,something they didn't have to do,
especially because they only had eight monthsto make the movie, which is insane
because especially because it was first theywere I think they delivered the storyboards to
the team the day that they heardthat it was not going to be a

(28:52):
straight to video, it was notgonna be straight video, but an actual
theatrical release. They had just deliveredthe only the storyboards, so basically they
had nothing because they revamped it fromthere and did it all in eight months
and delivered one of the best fuckingBatman movies ever. I'm not joking.
I'm not joking. Agree with RobPassion agrees with me, and so does

(29:17):
Kevin Conroy. He agrees. Theyagree that this is the best Batman movie.
Sorry, I mean Dark Knight's fantastic. I love Dark Knight, but
you know, like, ah,I do love Mask of the Fantasm,
but I prefer other movies, includinganimated. Oh my goodness, you son
of a bitch, we're gonna fighttoday, that's what we're gonna do.

(29:38):
To Sean, We're gonna fight.You're not gonna fight. We've had this
conversation before. I know, justkidding. But but to wrap it up,
basically, must this is a mustread Batman story with not much Batman
in it, especially if you're afan of the animated series The Mask of
the Fantasm and like Paul Deaney asa creative. And I feel like Edward

(30:02):
Russo, if you just love EdwardRusso art, I feel like this is
you know, he like panels likethis, baby, Panels like this where
Batman just kicking a fucking car inand he puts his signature in the corner
and you're like, yeah, Russo, you you you do that, buddy,
You're like You're like, hell yeah, that panel's fucking epic as shit,

(30:22):
my man. I feel like it'sit's an a It's a great read,
a short read. Absolutely worth it, worth the buye. If you
can get your hands on it,absolutely do it, and app must do.
Now let's talk about one of myfavorites of all time. But I
know you do not agree at thesame time, but we'll we'll talk about

(30:47):
it. So, Mask of thePhantasm. I love this movie because it's
one of those things that it's doinga lot of things. It's doing Batman
Year one, it's doing Batman Yeartwo, and it's also doing a real
Bruce Wayne love story that isn't completelyuh you know, uh just Catwoman or

(31:14):
or or Talia. You know,like this is something completely different. And
I mean there's several things in theanimated series that like change comics forever,
and I feel like Mask the Phantasmis one of them where sorry, cat
jumped up on me, the uhis uh mask Mask? You get the

(31:37):
Phantasm in comics after this, youknow. So it's just like one of
those things where you're like, okay, so another thing like Mad Love and
Harley Quinn where you're just like okay. So yeah, Phantasm was already like
loosely based on like the Reaper fromYear two, but then after after the
movie, they just kind of madethe Reaper more like the phantasm. So
you're like, yeah, that thattends to happen, even if it's exact.

(32:01):
If you make something iconic in anothermedium, it tends to influence it,
for better or worse. That definitely, that definitely becomes a galaxy on
the Marvel side of things, wherethe comics at this point are basically just
R and D for the movies andit kind of sucks. Yeah, I
feel like it, you know,and then they translate to the games where

(32:22):
we get instead of I mean discountingSpider Man and Spider Man two. But
like you know, the Avengers gamewas very much just like, oh no,
we need to stick to the movies, and you're just like why we
have the movies? You know,like you know, you're just like,
what like it? They could beseparate things. The Midnight Sun said fuck

(32:46):
that and did their own shit,you know, like, and I feel
like that's what they need to do. Sorry, My cat is all over
the place here, Ella new catjust loves being in my lap all the
time, and he just does notunderstand what I'm doing when I'm talking on
the computer. She's like what that, She's like, what the hell is

(33:08):
this? So but I I did. I wasn't gonna she's she's a girl.
But you know, she could havebeen Barbara. I was trying to
convince Mary to name her Barbara becauselooks she a black cat, you know,
like Barbara Gordon. But you know, she didn't go for it.
Could have been Selena, that wouldhave you know, that could have worked.

(33:29):
But no, I wouldn't go forthat Ella Fitzgerald or you know,
that's what she went for. It'smore nerd music mergy. But besides the
point mask of the phantasm, oneof it's it's one of those things where
even in the book The Dark Knight, I mean Dark Knight, they talk

(33:51):
about they're like, wait, thisis a Bruce Wayne love story. They're
like, well, and Alan Burnett'slike, he never gets to get a
love story. We never get todo that in the show. Might as
well do it in the movie.Yeah, because generally, and this is
mostly because you know, they neverwant to have Bruce Wayne actually settle down.
We tend to just go for theTHEEMFA Tower route. Both with Selena

(34:12):
and Talia were just like, oh, oh, I know they're bad for
me, but I'm mom. Yeah, as opposed to something like Andrea Beaumont,
which is just a genuine loving relationshipbefore Batman and after. And I
absolutely love how they're able to weavethis love story in with like the Year

(34:39):
one stuff and with uh, likepretty much just all of the start of
Batman's story. They're able to waitlike weave her in. And I think
that that's so awesome. I thinkit makes it like part of the tragedy

(34:59):
of and becoming Batman. Like it'snot just it's not just like, oh
yeah, it's epic that he becomesBatman. You know, he's just kind
of you know, he's got todo it because he's got to do vengeance,
you know, like no, no, no, no, no,
no, He's giving up something,you know, like to do this,
you know. Like and I thinkthat, yeah, that's an important part
of it, you know. It'sYeah, Scott Snyder did something very similar

(35:22):
at the end of Zero Year ifyou remember that moment, Yeah, yeah,
yeah, exactly. And I Imean I visually this this movie is
absolutely striking. They really go bigwith a lot of the set pieces and

(35:43):
and even in the small things likejust the way that Angela looks, the
way the Lockett uh looks and theway it has later it consists. Even
the phantasm looks like one of thebetter episodes, because you know, animation

(36:05):
varies from point to point. Iknow, there's always that joke of like
when you have an animated show versuswhen you have an animated movie and the
only thing that changes is a littlemore shading. Yeah, I've seen that.
I've seen that here. Yeah,and that is here too, But
it is still like consistent throughout where, like everyone's on model and yet everything
is so fluid, especially given howlike short this production was. Yeah,

(36:30):
I feel like, as a fanof the show, you gotta love that,
like everything looks like the show.It's not like all of a sudden,
suddenly something else, you know.Yeah, which also looks like the
most consistent version of the show,because even the show had its like weird
moments, Yes, exactly, there'smoments where you're like, oh okay.

(36:50):
And even Bruce tam when speaking aboutthis movie, says he thinks it's ninety
percent there. That he was like, I wish we had more time,
you know, because they made thisfor something like eight million dollars, which
was in the same year that theymade Aladdin for two twenty eight million dollars

(37:13):
and and they grossed about the samesimilar money, and you're just like like,
it's all of the things that you'relike, Okay, definitely home video
because that was definitely not in theaters, no, non theaters. It was.
It was more of like sales latebecause of course fucking Warner Brothers would

(37:34):
push them to turn it from astraight to video production to a theater production,
but then do no fucking promotion forit in theaters. Yeah, they're
just like, what eight months?That's really short? Oh yeah, and
then look at you in the eyeand be like that sounds sad, and
you're just like what the fuck,like like, goddamn, I feel like

(37:55):
eight months for a live action movieis crazy. Eight months for an animated
movie is insane. Uh, andfor them to pull it off is crazy.
Yeh. Side, like animated moviestake a long time. Yeah,
and to be so fluid constantly too, you know, like it's not like

(38:20):
it does not suffer from being alot of the animation does not suffer from
that low budget. There's a lotof great, uh really fluid and beautiful
looking action sequences right from the getgo, you know, like right from
the start with the guys making thecounterfeit money all the way to uh,

(38:42):
you know, just the fights withthe phanfasm are all so good, and
then to the end where uh,Jo, Joker and and Batman are actually
you know, really slugging it out, and it feels so uh like they're
slugging it out like this. Andbecause it's a movie and not you know,

(39:06):
having the air on primetime TV,it can't afford to be a little
bloodier than usual. It can bea little more violent. This was the
first dub Warner Brothers movie to havea PG rating. All the rest of
them had G ratings before this,so this was this was a big man
They needed the parents to bring inthe parents, uh, which I feel

(39:28):
like was sort of necessary because likeif you were like, this is a
g rated Batman movie, come onin, kids, they would be like
what the fuck? Like they'd belike, did bat did? Did Joker
just kill some people? And You'relike, hey, he did? He
did that? Guy did? Didthe fan doesn't just kill those people?

(39:49):
That man watched it? Yeah?That's always like the image like is burned
in my brain is that they restabs Arthur with a Joker. Sarah me
it's like shown in shadow and silhouetteand then the close up of his mouth
as he laughs. Every single time. It always gets that and the old
man being dead and a bomb thatfucked me up as a kid was being
the like he like, he's likeBatman turns the old man around, and

(40:14):
and it's and the Joker has madethe old man dead of Joker talks and
yeah, yeah, you're just likefuck no no, it's a phantasm that
turns him around. You're just likeso one of those things where you're just
like god damn. Like uh,it's like it's it's one of those like
visually striking Joker smiles that just stickswith you forever. That and I've talked

(40:37):
about it many times in the podcastThe Joker Fish. The Joker Fish fucked
me up, uh for a verylong time. Uh and uh and you
know, but you know also Iwould take an absolute replica of like a
Joker Fish, but like it's talkingfast. I think that would be sick.
Uh might be you know one ofthose like that doesn't existing, right.

(41:00):
I was like I was thinking aboutit. I was like, with
Mark Hamill doing the voice of thefish, that might be, Uh,
that might be something to work on. But uh, I think that that's
another thing to be commended to hereis that not only do the already star
studded cast come come into this movie, you know, like already you have

(41:21):
Mark Hamill and Kevin Conroy and uhdoing voices here, you know, like
uh uh, but you also bringin h Dana Delaney was very big at
the time, you know, likeabsolutely, you know, coming off of
Tombstone. Uh the same year actuallythey came out Tombstone and asking the phantastic

(41:45):
you have you ever seen Tombstone?I haven't, but it's really I've heard
it's great. Uh. But likeshe she's been, you know, done
a ton of things, and ithas been Lois Lane in a lot of
animate and when you when you watchthis, you can see why I thought

(42:05):
it would. Dude. I wasn'tlooking at the screen. She started talking
and I looked over and I waslike, wait, am I watching the
Batman the bat Superman crossover? Wherewhere where Batman fucks Lois Lane? I
was like wait a minute. Here. It was like I was like,
I was like wait a second,and then I was like no, wait

(42:28):
no, And then I had tolook it up and I was like,
oh, yeap that is afterward theywere like, well, that was fucking
amazing. You're loesst Lane. Yeah, they were like they were like that
was very good, especially since,like I'm glad the later DCAU shows never
chicken out of the like whole tragedyof Masks of the Phantasm story, and

(42:49):
and Andrea, as far as weknow, still never saw each other again.
We get that glimpse of Andrea inthe Justice League Unimited episode which works
as an epilogue for Batman Beyond,but she still ever comes into contact with
Bruce. He's just hired by AmandaWaller to kill Terry's parents, which he
doesn't do. And you know,it's kind of implied the you know,
Joker dies here, but that's obviouslylike you can't do that with all of

(43:13):
the rest of what Joker does inDC Animated Universe, And yeah, it's
explained they do that at the endof like the STIs and they beat the
shit out of each other, andwell, she beats the fuck out of
him and then set and then basicallyan explosion happens and separates them and Joker
floats off like you normally does.I never needed an explanation. We have

(43:35):
a million episodes that end exactly thatway, where it's just like, how
did Joker get out of that?There's the one where you get punched into
like the smoke stack. There's theend of the Batman Superman like World's Finest,
like three parter where he's like onthe exploding airship. So we end
episodes like that a lot, whichjust like how Joker couldn't have survived that?
And then he's back next week.I did love. I thought it

(44:00):
was funny that I had to lookat him up to Arthur Reeves's voice voice
by Heart Faukner, and he's thehe's the schnitch from die Hard to you
know, like he tries to uhrat out uh uh oh ellis yeah,

(44:21):
yeah exactly. He's heard that before. And I was like, I was
like, oh okay, because Iwas like, I was like, oh
man, he's got like a famousdouchebag voice. And I was like,
oh there he is. Yeah,and so's voice by Abe Fagoda, who
is my godfather. That is crazy. And then of course they bring in

(44:43):
uh Stacy Ketch as as the Phantasmand as her dad, which I think
is always a great red Herring isthat, like he voices the voice modulator
that sat it for for the phantasmand the Dad, And I was like,
there you go, that's that's cool, red hairing. You know,

(45:05):
that was always like one of thethings about Batman, the animated series from
the get go about the way theywould cast is that they never wanted and
this isn't really to diminish like voiceactors, but they never wanted like what
was traditionally seen as cartoon voices backin the day, just like, no,
we want genuine actors who have beenaround the bend. We want to
hire stage performers. We want tohire actors who have been in the TV

(45:29):
world or the movie world for along time. So I think the cast
here, you know, just continuesto be fantastic from the show, and
I think that that's what's great,you know, like it like continues the
tradition of being like, yeah,okay, no, we're gonna keep bringing
those people. So one of mymy favorite things about this is kind of

(45:52):
the different perspectives in the mystery unravelinghere because Maska Phantasm is told from basically
Bruce's perspective, but we also seeAngela's perspective and kind of sorry Andrea and
uh and Jokers perspective kind of youknow, like we kind of get to

(46:14):
see those three guy, those threecharacters unravel the mystery themselves, you know,
like because and I think that that'sactually a fun part of this is
that it feels like a movie,that's all. It's racing towards each other
exactly, which is why I actuallythink, and you see this when you

(46:35):
read Dark Night, the working titleof it just being Batman Masks instead of
Mask of the Phantasm is actually kindof a more fitting title, and right,
it's actually kind of a better title, and it's just not as I
kind of because, wow, it'snot like they would have known yeah right,
uh, somebody knew obviously they chasedthe name being like, yeah,

(46:58):
no, that's the punch. ButI think that that's one of the strong
parts about this is that not onlyis it telling a great Batman origin story,
a great Bruce Wayne love story,but it's doing a mystery, you
know, because like Batman, it'sdoing a classic animated episode mystery where it's
like Batman's being blamed for murders andhe's like he's at every scene, he's

(47:21):
like, no, I didn't dothat, and they're always like, bad
man killed that guy and he's like, no, I I literally had nothing
to do with that. Like,and they're always like, no, he
did it. I saw him doit. And they're like whatever, fuck
you, guys, I'm out ofhere. And you know, classic Batman
stories. But I think that that'sthe fun of this is kind of like

(47:42):
you you don't know, it's Angela, Oh my goodness, sorry Andrea,
Sorry, slapping a bunch of Italiana names in there, Andrea, Andrea's
you you don't know, she's thephantom inn till uh or the phantasm until
uh, which they don't say thatname in the movie either. They don't

(48:07):
say the fantasm, you know,they don't really call him that. No.
Yeah, and I thought that wasinteresting too. I was like,
oh, so that is truly likeafter the movie was done, they were
like, it's the mask of thePhantasm. And then you know, and
they were like, all right,what's the phantasm? Who knows? Just
watching who knows? You'll have totune in and find out. Uh.

(48:30):
But I I think that that's youknow, you have the all this other
great Batman stuff going on, butalso a classic Batman mystery sort of thing,
uh, and it leads to thethe ultimate culprit of it all,
fucking Jack Navy or fucking Joker himself. And I think that that's, uh,

(48:52):
you can't use that uh, youknow, that trigger too often,
you know, like a Joker wasthe reason behind this, you know,
yeah, yeah, so this isa worthwhile one. It's always interesting that
like one of the things that likecomic book fans are very very fickle about,
or not even fickled, they're verystrict about, is going through like

(49:12):
the Alan Moore philosophy approach to theJoker, where it's just like nope,
never origin, always a lie,or maybe it's some truth, always ambiguous,
never give them definitive backstory, butalso the content. But also the
same people would say that would alsosay animated series Batman is the definitive Batman,
and that's a Joker with a plainbackstory. And that's only because that

(49:35):
was carried over for eighty nine,right. And I think that that's funny
too, that they're kind of likebe at doing it as an homage to
eighty nine, but changing it upslightly, not making it straight up that
they you know, kill that Jokerkills Bruce's parents, but something different,
which they all I was reading alsothat they had written an episode where Joker

(50:00):
did kill uh Bruce's parents and like, and he just doesn't remember who it
was, you know, because heonly saw the gun, you know,
from all the trauma. And Ithink that that would have been an interesting
episode too. But I do thinkthat would have been like you would have
had to draw comparisons to eighty nine, and instead you get to play with

(50:22):
Joker causing this trauma in Batman's life. Like the animated series will always be
so retrospectively. Yeah, like Jokerdidn't even mean to cause this pain to
Batman that absolutely devastates him, whichI think brings Joker even more joy and
so and yeah, also the ideaof like creating your own worst enemy,

(50:43):
yes, exactly. And yeah,the animated series will always be intrinsically linked
to eighty nine because it's pretty muchthe reason it got made because that was
such a huge hit. But it'salso a huge hit and it made people
be well, I think you caneven trace it back further. You can
trace it bad back to uh To, to Neil Adams and who who is

(51:07):
O'Neil, Danie O'Neil, and theythey brought the serious tone back to Batman,
you know, like they really did. They're like, yeah, they
were already putting Yeah, even ifFrank Miller gets all the credit. Yeah,
even though Frank Miller gets all thecredit. I would say Neil Adams
and the credit for being like,let's get back to the origin of this

(51:30):
character. And I think came inand was like, let's keep it up.
That's also a difference of whereas likeDannie O'Neill Neil Adams run on Batman
was more like we're playing it straightagain to be fair, whereas Dark Knight
returns, it's just like we're goingdark on purpose and we're staying there.
Yes, we're staying there. That'sgoing nowhere else. Like the Neil Adams

(51:53):
and Dannie O'Neil stuff was more likewe're leveling it out. It's just like,
oh, we're going into the deepverse with the Oh my goodness,
uh and uh. I think that, you know, I think that this
is a more adult story. Ithink that this is kind of but it's

(52:14):
funny because as a kid, Iabsolutely ate it up, you know,
like it's one of those things that, uh, you can challenge kids,
you know, Like I feel likeBatman and Animate Series is one of those
like big examples of children's media thatis like challenges what that means, you
know, like and tells complex storiesexactly. So because kids can understand complex

(52:38):
stories, it's not hard. No, they can't, like maybe they're not
filling on all the blanks, butthey can absolutely keep up. There are
a few things that like irritate memore than the excuse of like, well,
it's for kids, so it doesn'tmatter if it's good or not.
Yeah, you're like, oh no, no, no, those same people

(53:00):
let their kids watch cocoa melons,So that's the that's the problem. You
can have stuff that's like challenging andstill like kids, especially me as a
kid, when I was watching abunch of shit, I wasn't supposed to
by general standards, It's all thosethings were Like as a kid, I
always could send some mile away whenI was being talked down to, so

(53:22):
I always gravitated towards stuff that wasn'ttalking down to me exactly. I think
that kids hate being talked down to, and I feel like that's the reason
why they love goosebumps, you know, like back in the day. You
know, it's because it didn't itdidn't feel like you were being talked down
to. Yes, it's why there'san entire generation of Avatar the Last Airbender

(53:44):
fans that I've never watched anything else. Yes, yes, which it was
funny. I was taught, Iwas uh, I was at work and
uh two people, you know,like some people had seen you know of
course grown up on it, andsome people hadn't it. It was funny
to be like, oh, yeah, no, no, you should watch
Avatar the Last Airbender, you know, instead of having a weird nostalgia.

(54:05):
Yeah, that and anything is justone of those one of those like pioneers
to be like animation can still Animationis not a genre. It's just another
medium to tell stories. And youwant to talk about like the lack of
respect we always have for animation.This is also something that would also spurn

(54:27):
arguments all the time when people wouldsay, oh, I can say Mask
of the Phantasm is my favorite Batmanmovie. Yeah, because especially since it
was theatrically released, even if itdidn't really do well because of it,
it was a last minute decision justlike hey, it released in theaters.
It did time. Ciskel and Eberdid an episode on it. They both
loved it. They both loved it. And I think that that's the thing
is, like I I think itcan stack up to most of the live

(54:52):
action Batman movies, you know,Like, I feel like this movie is
deep enough, does enough, andis a big enough story to beat out
a lot of the live action ones, which is funny, you know,
like and we also talk about We'vetalked about it a few times on the
show about like using your time.Well, like you want to talk about

(55:14):
a comparable story to all the liveaction movies which are close to like two
and a half to three hours,whereas mask of the fastest hours seventeen.
Yeah, it tells a story justan hour and change. Boo fucking slaps
that best than ninety minutes. Like, and it doesn't waste a fucking second.
That's what I think is one ofthe major advantages of this movie is

(55:37):
absolutely engaging because it knows that eventhough it's a movie, that their audience
is used to the twenty minute formatand they need this to fucking not waste
any time and keep moving, youknow, Like every little thing in this
movie, it moves the plot forwardand nothing is wasted. This is a

(55:58):
very skinny beast here, you know, Yeah, this is it's the same
reason. I mean, it's partof the same reason you love Evil Dead
too, so much like Evil DeadTV is less than ninety minutes, so
of course it's gonna move fast.And it's also those things are like,
yeah, I don't mind long storytelling, you like, a story is only
as long as it needs to bey But at the same time, I
do feel like, and this issort of just one of those things that

(56:21):
comes with the territory. Given howmuch TV has taken over, there are
things that don't need to be toldin ten to thirteen episodes, let alone
twenty three. And I feel likewe're starting to use things as a crutch
to like, let's make everything amini series. Let's make everything a TV
show when you can just do amovie in to like, but also,

(56:43):
things don't have to be only sixepisodes, like all of the Star Wars
shows on on Disney Plus. You'relike, hey, guys, that was
like a first you know thing youdidn't have to do only six episodes.
Moving on beyond that, you know, like it's one of those things where
you're like, why why such aweird number? Like what the fuck are

(57:06):
we doing here? You know?Like and the same thing for the Marvel
shows, they're weirdly numbered. Idon't know why we're doing these strangely non
TV packaged numbers. Yeah, it'sthat like trepidation of like is it a
mini series? Is it a TVshow? M So it depends like okay,

(57:28):
Like it's one of those things thatI feel like some shows suffered from
being shoved into such short amount oftime and some didn't, you know,
like and you know, in uhin a world where we're getting what if
Season two? Uh this this week, you know, like and then we're
also getting Rebel Moon Part one onNetflix this week, So you have two

(57:55):
examples of of of things that Ishould either are too long like Rebel Moon
is probably and and say it's toolong. It's gonna be longer because they
already said a longer director's cut iscoming, I know, And I'm like,
oh no, I've seen all thebad reviews. I'm excited to watch
it myself. I'm not just likeAquaman. I'm gonna make my own fucking

(58:20):
decisions about those things. Instead ofbeing like, all right, well it's
over now. Yeah, I've heardmost of the complaints are on like the
character side. And I remember hearinglike from the jump when they said like
there will be two different versions thattheatrical is going to be more on spectacle
and directors will have more that characterstuff. Yeah. I didn't sort of

(58:45):
get Zack sider like knowing how toplay to the audiences or it's just like
you can make two different versions.You can have one in theaters, right,
that's just about the pew pews,and you can have one on TV
where you have the time to sitdown to care about everything else. But
then I also love you know whatIf, which is telling these big uh

(59:05):
Marvel stories in like twenty minutes andsending you on your way. Instead of
being like its connect the bigger Marvelyou, It's like no, no,
here, it is just what Ifstory slap, you know, like,
And I am so much more forthat than I am to jump into season
two of Loki. I know I'mbehind, but I I just know everyone

(59:28):
says it's good. I haven't startedit either, Yeah exactly. Everyone says
it's good and they liked it.But I was just I'm just kind of
like bit. I mean, mything is like Loki was the closest thing
to Good Doctor Who in like fiveyears when it came out. But now
Doctor Who was back with Russell td it on Disney Plus two and I'm
having fun again. So I'm like, I don't really need Loki, So

(59:53):
you are? You are having funagain with New Who. Yeah, all
the the three special came out withDavid Tennant were fun. Judy Gott was
already in the role. Now theChristmas Special will be solely about him.
Oh cool. I like him sofar based on what little I've seen of
him. I like his energy.It's just fun again. The Chimnall era

(01:00:15):
was a slog to get through,and I'm glad it's over. Okay.
Uh do now? Are they kindof like being like the chimnar never happened?
Or are they being like uh no? They they have a very comic
book approach to it, where it'sjust like we either just don't need to
bring it up, or we cancontextualize it slightly differently. They add some

(01:00:37):
they add some fuckery. I'll tellyou about it after some fuckery, But
basically I think thirty years later,h to bring it back to Mask of
the Phantasm thirty years later. MassivePhantasm is worth a rewatch. Uh,
it's still one of the best Batmanmovies. But you're saying, but you

(01:00:59):
were saying earlier and we haven't talkedtalked about it really, So why isn't
it your favorite of the Batman movies? What do you uh? Because it's
up there for me, but youwere saying it's not even your favorite animate
So what's what? What are yousaying here? I'm just saying that I
prefer Batman beyond Return of the Joker. I'm not alone to that. Scott

(01:01:20):
Snyder apparently does too. Okay,I thought you were about to shoot off
something blasphemous. Okay, that's fine. I The Joker is as it's still
written exactly. Plus, while Maskof the Phantasm does get Brownie points for
basically being its own original story,it's hard not to bring up the like
straight adaptations that we've had, likeYear One and Dark Knight Returns, which

(01:01:44):
are so close and they're already basedon such amazing stories, especially Year one.
That shit is one to one thefucking comics. So you're like,
well, I mean, there itis, it's moving. Look at it.
Go guys, look at the comic. Go like that's that's definitely what
that that movie. It is sortof like I also really love them kind

(01:02:05):
of doing Year one in the BatmanAnimated Show Universe here, even the scene
where he's running from the swat,you know, like I think that that's
fucking epic, you know, like, and it's like, even though they
do it great in the new animemovies, I feel like there's some zuna
sequa to uh, you know,having what's his is it? What's his

(01:02:27):
name in the animated show? Isit? It's not Bullock? It's uh
or is it Ballock? Yes?It's like okay, yeah, and he's
like you dummy, you know,like yeah, the flashbacks of him being
like a beat copy before he becamea detective, that's fucking funny. And
how I thought it was funny howlittle uh Commissioner Gordon's in this and all

(01:02:49):
he's doing. He's in two scenesand he shows up and he's just like
stop it. How dare you sayshit about Batman? I'm out? He
like, I will not take downthe Batman and he just leaves them.
It is weird that we've never hadBullock in a live action movie. I
know, right, we is weird. They've like changed it to something else,

(01:03:12):
Like in Batman Begins in eighty nine, we had like Eckhart who was
kind of bullet esque. We hadFlash and Batman Begins, which, to
be fair, flashes in year one. But yeah, no, no,
no Bullock. Yeah, you're likewhy and we probably won't get it in
the recently announced official title The BatmanPart two, uh, which which we're

(01:03:37):
finally getting a numbered Batman movie,like why why why do we need a
number? You know? Batman moveMatt Reeves, I love you, but
why the fuck? No? Idon't mind it, given how like self
serious the Batman is and Matt Reevesbeing pretty strict about like I'm probably only
doing three of these. It's justlike one big story. When you put

(01:04:00):
a part two with a Roman numeral, it always gives it like some sort
of air of sophistication. But yeah, they're trying to be like it's the
Godfather too. Yeah, okay,so it doesn't try to go for but
it bothers me because you have suchunique titles and now I have to be
like the Batman Part two, whichone are you talking about? No?
The Batman Part two, not ofrandom Batman's so that also that also helped

(01:04:26):
separate itself as its own thing,because it was already super uncreative to just
call it the Batman adding of theat least, if you're gonna go with
a different, like sequel sequence,you at least separate yourself a little more.
I don't know, I was lookingforward to some creative titles, and
I got bullshit, is all I'msaying. You know, like that's fine.
I could have like, you know, like and also you could have

(01:04:48):
like foreshadowed a little bit, youknow, like you could have called it
the the Batman Death in the Familyor something like that, you know,
like because they're bringing Joker in,you know, like, there's there's way
to do this, and instead weget pot which gives me nothing. I
get why they did it the Lastof Us Part two instead of just calling

(01:05:11):
it to do the same thing.If you discuss when you give it a
Roman numeral, it's classy. Imean we already talked about. Plus we're
not also getting the Brave in theBold on top of that, so yes,
we're getting the Brave in the Bold. We're getting an Arkham series.
Uh, so like there's a lotof Batman going forward, you know,

(01:05:33):
like I I do, I doget that and you're not. And you
know, we already discussed how Godzillax Kong a New Empire literally gives away
the fucking plot, so you shouldn't. That's a bad title, you know,
Like and I feel like, alsoGodzilla x Kong, what is this
a fucking Japanese game? Is thisa ship? Are they finally gonna kiss?

(01:05:57):
And I don't like, uh,the new title for Ghostbusters the Frozen
Kingdom. You're like, is thisa goddamn Mario level? Like what the
like? I mean you had todo something. I mean there might be
a Frozen Kingdom in it, Frank, I saw for the trailers there is,
so there you go, so youknow, I know what they're going

(01:06:18):
for. I am excited for thatGhostbusters movie. It could have been.
It could have been some shit likeGhostbusters make it Down or some nonsense exactly.
I would have but I almost wouldhave expected Meltdown and I would have
gone with that, you know,like it would have been like on Zilla
Meltdown perfect, nailed it. Youfucking got me today, you know,

(01:06:39):
like, but Kingdom of Frozen Kingdom. It feels like a bad video game
title, the Lost Kingdom. What'swe also got Kingdom of the Planet of
the Apes coming note of the Kingdom? What's up with this ship? What's
up with this? Yeah? Everything'sa Kingdom now And you're like, Okay,
who what Warner Brother producer is doingthis shit? You know, like

(01:07:01):
you're just like, who had tohave Kingdom and all the titles? Like,
what the fuck is that shit about? But beside the point, guys,
thirty years later, go watch Masksof the Phantasm anytime dark night.
You absolutely need to read this.Both belong on your shelves. You weren't.
You couldn't even get the Blu rayof Mask of the Phantasm until literally

(01:07:28):
like five years ago. It wasone of those things where it took twenty
four years they said to get theBlu ray out, which is a little
ridiculous because we've had Blu rays forvery long. Yeah, and after years
of seeing it on either TV orDVD like it is, it would be
hard to try to go back tothose old transfers. Now. One of

(01:07:49):
the things I like, you nevernotice until you get a better remaster.
When the Blu ray came out,is how much there's been like this weird,
like pinkish tint to the movie andevery release before the Blu Ray gave
it a proper remaster. When youlook at comparisons, you're just like,
oh wow, it does have aweird color to it. And it always
as yeah, DVD's are fun erawhere it's just kind of like they put

(01:08:12):
the file on the disc and theydidn't really care if something went wrong when
the file got on the disc.Oh fun stuff like that happened all the
time, instead of Blu rays wherethey were like oh sorry. You know,
always those like little things you pickup on, especially if you buy
things throughout the years for different mediums. One of the things I always joke
about is I love Sons of Lambs. It's my favorite movie. There's a

(01:08:35):
scene where there's blood on Lecter's mouth, like on his lip, and it's
always looked like pink to me.On VHS, it looked pink. On
DVD, it looked pink. Onthe initial Blue ray I got, it
looked pink, and then when Criterionfinally gave it a proper remaster, it
actually looked like blood. I'm like, oh my god, they finally fixed
it. Oh my god, thisis the reason to buy Criterion Collection.

(01:08:58):
Shit, that's the reason why,because you get that nice that nice ship
right there. So basically absolutely ownthese two. You don't have to get
hard cover, but I would getDark Knight and Ye sport of physical release.
I've seen there was a Black Friday, so I'm sure there's probably a
holiday sales. Maybe yes for theanimated series. Definitely not the Collector's Edition

(01:09:20):
one, because I think this isout of print now. But but they
do have a version which is everythingI can get, just like a standard
normal like Collector's edition, which iswhich is fine. This is mostly because
it comes in a cool booklet andit has like this box of like tiny
little pops in it. Oh,you got some tiny pops there. Next.

(01:09:41):
The only pop I have left areother than Godzilla is uh Vampire Batman
and Batman uh Adam West up there. No, I did not keep JJ.
But you know that's there's the littleBatman shelf up there that doesn't get

(01:10:02):
shown every episode if I tilt thecamera. But if nothing else for its
three anniversary, just do it forKevin Conroy's sake, because it's not or
even just the rest of the cast, because it's not only just him that
we've lost, Like over ten yearsago, we lost Michael Ansara who voiced
mister Freeze. We've just lost theactor who played Harvey Dent on the show.

(01:10:25):
We lost Arlene Sorkin who played HarleyQuinn. Like we've been losing a
bunch, yeah, And it waslike kind of sad to like read her
scene in Dark Knight here where she'slike super kind to him and is like
his first call, like he's like, he's like immediately, it's like I
want to hear Harley Quin's yeah theywere, which I thought was funny,

(01:10:45):
like you know, like, yeah, they were good friends. He saw
Arlen Sorkin in a stage performance whereshe played like a Jester character and that
was the inspiration. That's so funnyand another good reading recommendation. I wish
I had remembered this before we didthe episode. I would have added it
as like reading material as well asDark Knight is. There was a there
was a comic bookish or a shortstory that Kevin Conroy had written for Batman,

(01:11:12):
and it was all about his storyabout how he felt being cast as
an iconic character as a gay man. Very good read. That's cool.
I don't know if I've read thatyet, so I would absolutely read that.
Yeah, DC put up like thesnippet of that because I think it
was like a whole like anthology issue. They put up the Kevin Conroy's story
up specifically for free when he died, so like everyone could read it.

(01:11:36):
Like I had never I'd never heardof it beforehand, but then I gave
it a read that I'm like,oh, now I'm sadder. Yeah,
now I'm sadder. Now this hurt. And you know, I would say
that that is definitely and this isa very uplifting story, but this is
also a very sad story, youknow, Like I feel like this is

(01:11:57):
something that you know, if you'renot ready for that, you know,
like and you know, it's almostlike a trigger warning that it is about
a violent encounter, you know,like and some people really have lived through
that, and it is a triggerwarning thing. Like, Yeah, if
you've never seen Mask of the Phantasm, give it a shot. You don't
need to have seen the show towatch it. No, absolutely not.

(01:12:19):
If you just love Batman. Thisis one of those things I had showed
it to my I had showed itto one of my friends. He actually
welled up fucking watching it, whichis funny because he cries less at media
than even I do. I'm like, ha, gotcha. But that was
that was a springboard for him toeventually like give the whole DCAU a shot,

(01:12:39):
and he did go through all ofit. You should you should,
yeah, absolutely, And if ifyou haven't watched all of the DC Animated
Universe, you should. It's anabsolute joy to watch. Yeah, he
went through the whole shebang, minusstatic shot in the Zeta Project. Obviously,
yeah, obviously. But he walkedaway. He actually walked away with

(01:13:02):
Batman Beyond being his favorite. Hereally loved Batman Beyond him like, hey,
God's and nothing wrong with that,No, nothing's wrong with that.
Man Beyond's a great time, youknow, like I have nothing, you
know, like and it likes forme growing up, it was speaking to
me at the right age, youknow, like where it was just like
this is you know what I'm herefor? You know, I thought that

(01:13:23):
that's what what's so great about BatmanBeyond. But watch maskt Phantasm. You
can get it on Max for thetime being. Yes, you never know,
no fucking permanence. But also seeif you can get your hands on
the Blue Ray. The Blu Rayby itself is super cheap. I used
to have a copy of it.I think I gave you mine because I
got this. I was thinking that, but I was maybe I need just

(01:13:48):
just to dig around a little betterbecause I was like, I don't know
where the fuck this movie is onBlu Ray. I watched on MAK.
Yeah, I think I gave youmine because I had this. And this
comes with Mask of the Phantasm andsubs zero. Yeah, it doesn't come
a Mystery of the Batwoman. Hey, I didn't think that was that bad.

(01:14:08):
I thought that was just fine.It's not great, it was just
fine. I thought it was agreat longer episode. You know, like
it's kind of like that where you'rejust like where it's kind of like the
Twilight Zone movies where you're like thatwas a good long episode instead of like
that was a good movie. Youknow, they could just like yeah,
you're like they really extended an episodethere, you know, like that's what

(01:14:31):
mass that's what Batwoman feels like.You're just like, I mean some zero
kind of feels like that too.But it's it's good. It's good.
Yeah, it's good. I mean, I had a good time with it,
but you know, that's the wayit is. I So I had
early Christmas my dad and the funniestthing one of the funniest things he gave
me, which he gave me alot of funny things, but one of
the funniest ones was he gave mejust the first issue of the Newest Batman

(01:14:57):
comic where he is with Santa andthey are doing adventures together. Uh,
and it is so fucking funny.Deshan I I couldn't. I was like
flipping through it and just dying becauseit's just like it's it's it's absolutely ridiculous.
But the funniest bit is Superman beinglike, you know, bat Like

(01:15:17):
Batman's you know, hanging with Santaand they're like talking really friendly and not
you know, night Wings talking toRobin and he's like, I just they
were like and Robin's like, wow, you you he actually knew Santa this
whole time, and he was like, and he's this cool and he's like
I thought he was making it up. I thought he was trying to make
Santa cooler, you know, likeI thought he was you know, like

(01:15:38):
and then I my favorite bit isthat like that. I think it's at
the end of the episode of IssueToo, which I had to look this
up to see it is that Supermanfinds out that Batman uh knows Santa,
and he's like, you've known Santathis whole time and you didn't tell me,
Like you can tell how devastated Supermanis that Like Batman wasn't sharing the

(01:16:01):
knowledge symptom. Yeah, that's hilarious. That was like, oh my god,
it's but it is. I thoughtit was an it was a funny
gift, and I thought it wasI was like, oh my goodness,
what a ridiculous I'm annoyed because oneof the Christmas gifts I was going to
get for myself was a cell fromthe DC Animated Universe, because I did
run into a vendor at Fan ExpoBoston. They were the guys who actually

(01:16:26):
bought up the old like Warner BrothersArchives to get a bunch of animation shells
for their old stuff, and Ithumbed through them. When I was at
the convention. There was so muchanimated series stuff. It's just like I
want, I want, I want, I want one, I want at
least one, But they're all liketwo to three hundred dollars. I'm like,
I that's fine, I'll get oneand just be satisfied that way.

(01:16:46):
I did love him flexing his uhanimated cells in this book too. In
Dark Knight, Baldini being like,yeah, I got animated cells on my
wall. You're like you're like,oh hell yeah, man, Yeah,
they're expensive. The big thing is, like, the trouble is finding a
legit source. Even when I sawthat vendor at fan Expo, like I
did my research, I'm like,all right, who bought the archives?

(01:17:08):
Somebody? Okay, okay, thisis the company that actually bought those.
It's legit. That's crazy, that'scrazy. I still want one. I
still want it. I still Ilike the dude gave me his card for
it and everything. I'm gonna doit. I just don't have the cash
right now. Yeah, understandable.So my cat is crazy, that's okay,

(01:17:30):
Yeah exactly on camera increased views that'sYouTube algorithm, right. So guys,
basically, Merry Christmas, buy yourselfsome Batman Uh that's basically what this
whole episode is about. By yourselfand loved ones Batman stuff for Christmas.
What's your favorite version? Do whatyou do. Watch the Grinch, watch
your favorite version of a Christmas Carol. It always varies from person to person.

(01:17:53):
Yep, watch if you're gonna watcha Gundam Christmas thing, watch Gunda
More in the pocket. It's onlya movie. You don't have to watch
anything else Gundam. So it's justa very s could also read Batman.
No, well, we actually didan episode about years ago on Real Books
on that Batman when that came out. Great, great read Christmas Carol with

(01:18:14):
Batman with Batman. It's exactly whatyou would think it is. Uh,
and uh, you know there's plentyto do. Uh that's nerdy and you
know to do this holiday. AndI hope you guys get everything your nerdy
heart's desire, uh these holidays,whatever that may be. And basically,

(01:18:35):
guys, thank you so much forsupporting the show, for for basically listening.
Uh, it's another year of youguys have been listening to basically bi
weekly episodes of the podcast. Soputting it nicely, Hey, we've got

(01:18:55):
we're it's more just like when wekind of feel like it at this point.
No, it's at least monthly,Yeah, at least twice monthly sometimes
most of the time. On topof this, we're pretty good at it.
We're fine. But basically, thankyou for support. Thank you for

(01:19:16):
watching all the shorts. We've donea lot more this year, and I
really appreciate it. Uh for allthe support you guys give us on those,
and basically it's fun to talk aboutBatman, you know, on the
podcast again. I'm really excited thatwe got to do that. But also,
you know, thank you guys forsupporting the me talking to my best

(01:19:39):
friend on a podcast that's pretty fuckinggreat always. I really appreciate it.
I appreciate it. So basically,to support the show, hit the buttons
down below make the algorm do thething. But check out galaxygeek dot com
for all the episodes in both audioand video. So you can check it

(01:20:00):
out on the galaxy geek dot comwebsite, but also the YouTube is embedded
on there, and you can watchour beautiful faces on YouTube. On the
Galaxy Geek YouTube, you can subscribeand watch all these other the Warpshelf content,
like our false starts, our clipsfrom the episodes, and the episodes

(01:20:20):
themselves. So do all that stuffand then make sure that you follow on
our personal social media's I'm yep Frankor yep Gundam pretty much everywhere, and
I'm Mono Crika pretty much everywhere,and guys, thank you so much,
and I hope you have a happyholidays. We'll see you next time, yo,