Novelist Sandra Manigault is in THE HAVEN!

Author Sandra Manigault is back in THE HAVEN to discuss her third novel, Flora’s Saga, which is book three in the Vanessa Trilogy. Dreamcatchers may remember Sandra from Seasons 1 and 3, when we were first introduced to the delicious characters in this delightful trilogy.

Episode Transcript

(00:54):
Hello, fellow Dreamcatchers. We areback in the Haven to discuss another wonderfully
written book by one of my personalfavorite authors, Sandra Manigault. Sandra has
pinned her third novel, Flora Saga, which is book three in the Vanessa
trilogy. My dream Catchers may rememberSandra joining us in the Haven in seasons

(01:15):
one and three when we first wereintroduced to the delicious characters encompassed in this
trilogy, and you're probably very happyto hear that there's a third offering.
So without further ado, let's welcomeSandra back to the Haven, and welcome
back back. It's wonderful to behere. It is so good to have
you back, and thank you.You know, I I don't know if

(01:37):
you remember, you probably do whenyou were here season one and probably in
season three when you were talking aboutthose books. I knew that you would
be back, but I felt thatyou weren't really sure what that third book
was gonna be about or what,you know, how it was gonna take
form, at least at the timethat we taped it. So let's let's

(01:59):
do a deep into these characters andto your whole writer's game. Talk to
me about Flora saga. Okay,Flora Saga is interesting. I wasn't planning
to even do a sequel to Vnessfor love story, and I remember one
or two women saying to me,you can't stop here. I want to

(02:21):
know what's gonna happen to her,because, after all, love stories are
supposed to end a certain way,and mine didn't. So there was the
sequel. And honestly, Valerie,when I was first writing the sequel,
I had to ask myself, Wow, something seems different and it's a busy
yeah you're talking about yeah, booktwo, Book two. Yeah, I

(02:42):
honestly had to ask myself, isthis the same Vanessa who was in book
one, because it was as ifshe was different, And it took me
a while to kind of get myhead around the fact that it's the same
Vanessa. She's just grown up someand the way she entered acts with men's
a little different. Now. She'snot gonna do in book two what she

(03:04):
did in book one, and itgets swallowed up by the sky, you
know. Yeah, And I thinkthat that is what is so interesting about
your characters overall, not just Vanessa, but just their development as people,
as women through their experiences in thebook and we just kind of trail along
with them. And that's why,you know, people are like, when
is the next book coming? Whenis the next book coming? And people

(03:27):
contacted me is when is she comingup? Because I know when you're coming
on is because you have a newbook. So how did you finally get
to a place to write with alevel of authenticity with regard to the character.
I'm not sure. I'm not sure, but you know, one of
the things I do, I don'tfollow the rules. And when I hear

(03:49):
about other authors, you know,you need a story arc, you need
an outline, you need to knowhow the book is gonna end before you
start. I don't know what they'retalking about, and I don't do it.
And when I get in workshops orsessions with women who abide by the
rules and they're trying to do whatthe experts say they should do, I
can't stay because that's not how Iwrite. And I figure if I try

(04:12):
to write like that, I'm goingto get all messed up, so I
don't do it. Yeah, therereally is no set in stone process of
writing because all of us are inspiredin different ways. It's our processes is
different, you know, that thepantsters do it a certain way, whereas
the plotters like myself, you know, looking at how a pantster writes would

(04:35):
drive me nuts. But in myplotting of how I'm going to put the
story together, there is a levelof pansters that's going on because you have
to be helping to listen to thecharacters. You do, and they may
take you in other directions that youmay not have plotted them to go.

(04:56):
But that's where the authenticity. Well, the interesting thing about the process is
that I don't know how the plotterscan plot knowing what the characters are going
to do. If the characters aretelling the story, how do you know,
Well, you're plotting based on whatthe characters are telling. You just
describe, yes, But if you'reascribed, you're listening to them as their

(05:21):
story unfolds. So how do youon page thirty five know what's going to
happen by page one hundred and tenhasn't happened yet, and they've got to
live through that. They've got toget from where they are on page thirty
five to where they're going to beat a page one hundred and ten,
And how do you know, becausethey don't know who they're going to meet,

(05:42):
and how they're going to interact withwho they're going to meet, and
what's going to happen and how they'regoing to react. So you literally are
letting them tell the story and you'relistening to them tell the story, and
it sounds really bizarre, but that'swhat happens. But that's not the only
thing you do. I think aboutone of my editors, the best of

(06:05):
my editors, who is a wonderfulperson, by whish I could kind of
like live joined to the hip withher and then we could really get some
stuff done. And I remember,for example, in flora Saga, the
first thing she said to me aboutone of the characters, very early on,
she said, he's not ready.And I thought to myself, no,

(06:29):
because his story is unfolding and he'stalking and interacting with Flora. But
I didn't realize he wasn't ready,but she could see that in his conversation.
And then later on in the bookwhen there is another character introduced,
I didn't know how to get themwhere I needed them to be, And
she said, why don't you letsuch and such happen? And I said,

(06:50):
oh no, I don't want thatto happen. And then I thought
about it and I said, okay, I will. But then I had
to figure out the how of it. And you see, I'm trying not
to tell you too much, butdo you want to know? Sure?
Sure? What is probably wants toknow? Oh hmm, I don't know

(07:12):
if I want them to know.I don't know, you know, Oh
okay, it's okay, okay,okay, Well I'll give you a little
hint. She says, what ifhe has an accident? And I really
didn't want him to have an accidentbecause I didn't want you to think to
fight. You're fighting with the wellokay, I'm fighting with the advice.
Yes, not necessarily. But thenin terms of how it was going to

(07:34):
happen and when it was going tohappen, it was perfect timing. So
it happened, and it actually broughtthe characters closer together, so it happened
organically versus being for all that andand that's always the best. No.
I really listened to them, andI think one of the things, you
know, it's I think when you'rea writer, I think it's a gift,

(07:56):
particularly if you can write authentically andwrite fast and I think I do.
But but the other piece of itis you want the characters to tell
the story, which means you've gotto be good at dialogue. And I
think that's that's a gift and I'mvery grateful for that gift. And so

(08:16):
as the characters are telling the story, they're growing and you can see things
develop. And I think one thingabout process I find when I'm writing,
particularly when i'm almost done with thefirst draft of a book, I'm constantly
reading it through again, over andover and over because a lot is going

(08:37):
on, and I just want tomake sure that the relationship that's being developed
is authentic, so the character isbelievable and it's true to the characters.
So answer the question, that's whyyou feel has come across in Floristanga.

(08:58):
Oh, definitely, definitely in yourother to earlier books. So why did
you decide to focus on Flora.Well, you know, she shows up
in book one and we know thatshe's Vanessa's best friend in book one,
and she really helps Vanessa keep ittogether because Vanessa's kind of all over the
place. I love Flora's personality,yes, and she is so down to

(09:18):
earth, she's direct, she's strong, and she's a beautiful person inside and
out, and so it's just important. She's pivotal in that first book,
and she's there more than once inthat first book. In the second book,
what happens is she is more ofa dominant character. Vanessa is still

(09:43):
primary, but Flora is there,and Flora forms a relationship of her own,
probably about midway through, and thatrelationship grows, and so we know
Vanessa has a wonderful ending in booktwo, and Laura is really just getting
starred in her relationship. And Ijust felt the boot kind of kind of.

(10:07):
But I also think Flora deserved herown platform. She deserved her own
story because we want to know,well, is she successful? Is this
relationship going to work? And soit starts in book two, and it
continues that she becomes primary in bookthree. But you know, one of

(10:30):
the other things I've noticed a numberof authors write, I'm not going to
say they write necessarily what I wouldcall legacy novels, but they keep going
from one generation to the next tothe next. I don't have the same
character no no of a family,a family of characters. At least there
was one series I read like that, and I thought this is interesting,

(10:54):
and I don't want to didn't wantto do that because that's that requires plotting,
okay, But I did want thereto be some continual development. And
so you have a certain body ofcharacters in book one, you carry some
of them over in book two,You add characters in book two, you

(11:18):
carry some of those over into bookthree. But also I brought back somebody,
a couple of people at least frombook one we see again in book
three. So you know, youkeep building, you build and build.
But but Flora really needed her ownstory and she deserved that, and her

(11:39):
journey as as much of a rollercoaster as Vanessa's was, Flora's is more
so. She's a very interesting character, she is. So let's talk about
your passion for writing overall. Youknow what inspired you to sit down initially
to write your first book, thefirst novel, the very first book,

(12:03):
first novel, A creative writing class, okay, with a phenomenal teacher.
And you know what's peculiar about thatis there are teachers and their teachers.
Not everyone can teach courses in creativity, and you've got to be very careful
because if you get the wrong teacherin a creative course, they'll mess you

(12:26):
up. I've seen that, Soyou've seen that. You were inspired to
pin your first book based on yourexperience in what you learn, based on
homework assignment. A homework assignment,there were several things from which to choose,
and I chose the option of writinga scene in which sex was or

(12:50):
was not the inevitable outcome first twochapters of Veinesral Love Story. Didn't know
that was going to happen, butit happened. And the strange about that
when the scene came together where therewas a turning point, either going to
have sex or not, I didn'tknow how to write a sex scene,

(13:11):
and I was scared to death andI didn't know what to say. And
so I remember saying time stopped onthe wall. And then I went on
to the next scene, and oneof the men in class tore me a
new one. He said, youcannot stop there. You just cannot stop
there. And I thought to myself, And so eventually, before the book

(13:31):
went on, I said, Okay, if you're going to write a love
scene, you're just going to haveto dive in and just do it and
not be afraid to do it.And I've talked to a lot of different
novelists about sex in their books,and you know, how far to take
it and or just to kind ofgive the right the reader these sense that

(13:56):
it happened, and many times,well how important is it to the story?
You know? So if it's ifit's a story about someone being unfaithful,
then making it as hot as possibleit's probably not a bad thing.
But if it's something that isn't verycritical or pivotal to the overall story,

(14:20):
I mean, you can still makeit hot and steam if you want,
but you really want to focus onthe story and not so much the scene.
And that that was advice that wasgiven to me, like how far
do you go? And the basisbeing how important is it to the story?
But I don't want to get toofar from talking about your passion for

(14:43):
writing, which is what I reallywant to focus on. So you started
writing your first novel and finishing itbased on that experience in the writer's class,
and you finished it. What compelledyou to continue with this particular story

(15:05):
versus you cut your teeth and nowyou know, maybe introduce new characters.
What was it about this character inher storyline that compelled you to not write
one too, but actually three booksin the series. Well, basically everyone
wanted to know what happened to Vanessa, okay, so we had to fix

(15:26):
that. And so I just determinedthat, Okay, let's put Vanessa in
her new life, and we seeher transitioning from her old life to her
new life at the end of bookone. So it wasn't so much that
you entered into this writing journey withVanessa with the idea that you're going to

(15:50):
write a series. Okay, perfectcause, cause that's one thing that I
really want our viewers to hear froma writer who's in a writer who's done
it, who has been very successfulin doing it. You know, many
times we write not thinking, hey, this is one in a series of

(16:10):
books, two, three, fivebooks. Sometimes it just organically happens that
way, and that's okay. Ithink that's a good way for it to
happen. That's authentic, because Ithink you have to be motivated to care
enough about the writers, the charactersyourself to write about them in a way
that they're going to show up asreal people in book two or book three.

(16:34):
And I wasn't planning to do thissequel, but once I got started
with the sequel, it wasn't difficultto do. It was a matter of
pulling, pulling in the new people. And what's very interesting in book two
is that we see the two friendstogether and they're planning to go out for

(16:56):
an evening. They've been invited toa birthday party they meet. Each one
meets her dream man on the sameday, and Vanessa's relationship takes off like
a rocket. Flora's does not.But Flora is a lot more methodical in

(17:18):
her interactions with men than is Vanessa. Vanessa is the more spontaneous, free
spirited one. But I think alsoas as this story unfolds, you see
relationship developing at different paces, whichis what normally happens between people, and
it's just a matter of realizing that, Okay, this one is coming to

(17:44):
a close, this one is not, and then you just continue continue on
with it. Okay, did weget to the original answer question? Answered
my question, And so I guessyou know the point. There are some
writers that write for series because they'rein their book intentionally the way that they

(18:07):
ended it, because they know thatthey're going to pick up a certain way
in the second book. But inthis case, which I love. It
happened organically, It did not gointo it knowing thinking. So what about
from book to to book three?Yeah? Interesting, same thing. What's
interesting not only does one continue,book three starts before book two has ended.

(18:33):
In that final scene in book two, book three is already beginning.
So but again it picks up fromthere. Again, you don't really know
how it's going to how it's goingto That's the beauty, right, Yeah,
I love it. I think Ithink because of how I write,
I don't really know what's going tohappen until I'm writing it down. Yeah,

(18:55):
And that it's this peculiar, apeculiar way to write. I think
it's just so artistic and yet alot, yet a lot happens in the
development of the characters. Yeah,you know. And so you see in
book three you see Vanilla Vanessa takinga back seat. She is there,
but she is there only in thebackground, you know. And she comes

(19:15):
forward and that she goes in thebackground again, moves to a main character,
to a supporting character. She isvery much so. So just staying
on your passion for writing. Onething that you said earlier that I just
want to just found on and honestly, I can't remember if you said it
oner off the air. Going backto my issue about talking about it before

(19:41):
we're we're actually taping, you mentionedsomething about the three books and your process
for each one, or maybe Iasked you that question. How much has
your writing process changed? But betweenthe three books? Interesting question. I

(20:04):
don't know if it's changed that much. You got a blueprint, stay with
it, any broken fix? Yeah, yeah, I do. How have
you developed as a writer. Ithink I've gotten better. I think when
people, particularly people who are helpingme edit the books. I know when

(20:27):
we got to Flora Saga, eachone was telling me I loved it.
I loved it, I love thecharacters, fell in love with the books.
And I'm happy to hear that,because I don't really know how people
are going to respond. I onlyknow how whether I like it or not.
I have to also tell you something. Although I am essentially done with

(20:51):
the Vanessa series, are you notquite? There was a fourth book.
There's a fourth book. There's afourth book, but it's not part of
the trilogy. The trilogy where thesetwo women are pivotal characters. That's done,
but there is something slipped into bookthree. Okay, and that is
regarding Flora. We didn't know Florahad twin sisters. Oh, and so

(21:17):
book four is really the story ofthe twin sisters. Okay, so r
dream Catches you heard it here first. Yeah, there is a fourth book
coming and it's gonna be about Flora'stwin sisters. Which the nice thing about
it, of course, because they'reidentical twins, and because there are two
people, we're not looking at onelove story, we're looking at two.

(21:37):
Okay, and so it's interesting.So you have jumps started straight to my
last question. Yeah, which whichwhich we can continue? Yeah? Okay,
So your current project, or you'reassumed to be project, I don't
know if you started writing, isbook four? What comes first for you?

(21:59):
The the a working title or thetitle? Good question, because sometimes
you know, for me, Idon't know why, and I've talked to
other authors and it totally doesn't happenthat way. I have the name of
the book before I get to theend of chapter one. Really of writing.

(22:19):
Yeah, I think I've done thattoo, because it's like we're feeling
it and we know what it's goingto be about, and so and it
sometimes it comes to me in adream. Sometimes I'm not even really thinking
about it and it pops in myhead as I'm writing the first chapter.
But anyway, interesting interest, howdoes that work for you? Book two
I had no title. Book wasfinished. I had to run a little

(22:40):
contest and have my readers give methat's where the title came from for book
two. Book four had the titleat the beginning, the between years,
the between years, between years.Okay, the story of that didn't dominate.
Okay, Let's let's talk a littlebit about the thank you for sharing
your process between the three books,because I often wonder about that with writers

(23:08):
who are you're you know, you'reyou're writing, You're basically a full time
writer. Would you say that?M I don't know. That's more than
the only thing I do at thispoint. Okay, okay, So let's
let's talk a little bit about thebusiness of it, because I know a

(23:29):
lot of our dream catchers ask questionsabout that. I get it all the
time, particularly writers who are publishingtheir own books, which is becoming more
of the norm. It is,I think for various reasons, because there's
so many ways and so many resourcesout there that will absolutely allow you to

(23:56):
without a lot of money get thatfirst book out into the universe. So
talk to us about your journey asa publisher, because you publish your own
books, and how much as ithas of it has changed from your first

(24:17):
to your current I don't think forme the process hasn't changed that much because
I've always very timid about trying alot of different things. Okay, so
I've always published hard copy books,and I realized that I'm probably going to
have to go back to some ofthe people who help me get the book
out there and say, Okay,now it's time for us to try something

(24:37):
different. Can we add another anotherformat format to this? And I think
about doing that with Flora Saga andpossibly with the first Vanessa book also,
since I'm sure they still have allmy stuff in their database someplace, especially
since a lot of people are movingto electronic access. Exactly that, exactly,

(25:00):
Yeah, So I'm glad to hearthat you're Yeah, movie I am,
and I think, and I thinkyou just have to kind of wrap
your brain around, you know,some paradigms in terms of how to get
the book distributed and where you wantit to go, and just be content
with the fact that you're getting publicityeven if you're not making thousands and thousands
and thousands of dollars, you know, because I think everyone thinks I'm going

(25:22):
to write a book is going tobe a best seller. I'm going to
you know, be on the NewYork Times, Washington Post bestseller list first
coming out the gate. Oh gosh, doesn't happen. It doesn't. It
has, it has, but it'srare. It's rare. And I think
when you look at the number ofbooks out there, there are so many
thousands of books being published every singleyear that you're just you know, you're

(25:44):
just in there with the mix ofother people. Are you on any other
outlets? You know? Some writerswill write articles for mags and other publications.
Online publications haven't done that, okay, because that's another great way to
get your name out there, toget your work out there, to promote

(26:07):
your brand, and that really goesa long way in terms of social media.
Sure. So you know, well, I know I've got a lot
to learn with the business, andI wish I had as much. I
wish I knew as much about promotingand marketing books as I do about writing
books. Writing is the easy part, and everyone who's ever won writing?

(26:27):
The writing is the easy part,okay, very easy, Okay, yeah,
you know. And I'm amazed withwomen who are phenomenal, phenomenal in
marketing. They got one book,but they're phenomenal marketing, and I'm learning
warn't you know, marketing six orseven books, and they're not. They're
just doing one. And you know, I guess they're just those of us

(26:48):
who can write the books fast.Someone asked me a couple of months ago,
how long is it take to writea book? And I kind of
shrugged my shoulders. I say maybenine months. And when I say that,
I don't mean thinking about it writing, I mean start to finish,
done, draft finished. There's actuallyan author who's going to be on the

(27:12):
ware Cruise, the Writers and ReadersEscape Cruise, that I'm going to talk
about a minute when we close offthe show. Who has a book about
how to write a book in thirtydays. Wow. Victor McLoughlin. You've
probably heard of him. He's aNew York Times bestselling author, and he's
going to be on that voyage withus, and he's actually going to do

(27:33):
a workshop on how to do thatand have copies of his books. Available.
Wow. Thank you so much.Thank you for coming on and sharing
your artistry and your creativity with us. I look forward to having you back
to talk about your fourth book andunpack the layers about some other stuff that
we didn't have enough time to talkabout, but we will. And Dreamcatchers,

(27:55):
thanks for tuning in and being abig part of the Haven circle.
It is my hope that you areinspired in your writer's journey as we peel
back the layers and get to theheart of this writer's game. I hope
the season continues to inspire you tofinish your book, your script, or
at the very least helping you tolay down the tracks to completion. And
as always, you can stream uson any of our non streaming platforms including

(28:21):
iTunes, Spotify, iHeartRadio, AlexaSpeaker YouTube, and the number one network
on the continent, American Legacy Network. So for more information on where to
tune into our broadcast or podcast,visit our website at www dot Writers Havens
Show dot com and you can alsofollow me on Instagram and Twitter at author

(28:42):
v Helena or on Facebook at Vhlena. Keep me posted on your progress and
perhaps I'll see you in the Havennow I wanna share some exciting news that
many of you have already heard,but I want to make sure everyone has
the information. The Haven is goinginternational in a very big way. Phoenix

(29:03):
Rison Entertainment has partnered with Virgin Voyagesto host a writer's and readers escape aboard
the Scarlet Lady. It's an opportunityfor writers to retreat into their work and
for readers to hobnob with some oftheir favorite authors. There'll be literary cafes,
there'll be master classes, a wholehost of things that will support you

(29:27):
in your writer's journey. So justtune in to our website at www dot
writers haven Show dot com to checkout the deets and I hope to see
and that's Sea. I hope tosee you there. That's all for now,
and until next time, catch fireon purpose.