Stablecoin Payments on the Polygon Blockchain are SURGING! with Sam Fagin

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, folks.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
We are recording at Chainlink smart Con event and joining
me is Sam Fagan, who's the director of Payments at
Polygon Labs. Sam, great to have you. It's great to
be here, man, Sam. I'm really excited to dive into
some details around Polygon. I follow Polygon for years. I'm
a madic token holder, uh dear that. Yeah, and I've
been seeing like on r w A, dot x y

(00:25):
Z a lot of building happening on Polygon absolutely, which
is really cool. But before we get to all that,
tell us a bit about yourself and you know your
history in crypto.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Yeah, so I've been at Polygon for about seven months now,
started in March. Prior to Polygon, I was at checkout
dot com leading stable cooin growth and crypto in the US,
so working with the likes of coinbase and crypto dot
com and moonpay to accept Devin credit card payments, but
also working with web two merchants such as.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Fiver and upbooring Core.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Very early stages, I was starting to test what stable
coin withdrawals will look like the case their contractor or
someone in the US is hiring someone in Latin America
instead of withdrawing to local currency.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
As they accept.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Dollars, they want to hold a dollar nominated stable coin
and withdraw on stable coins. So it was very early days,
and I think now we're finally getting to that point
where we're seeing.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Some of this adoption. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Prior to that, I was at Coin Payments, leading global
strategy there. Prior to that, co founded a company called
omni Cash, which was.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Doing stable coin rewards.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
We were founded and funded by five Serve and yeah,
I was doing that for two years. So been in
and around stable coin payments for about seven years now.
I been waiting for this moment right now, So super exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
So what's it like seeing the Genius Act pass where
the market has clarity around stable coins and everybody and
their grandma wants to launch a stable coin now?

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
No, we've been looking for kind of the rules and
the lay of the land in order to really see
this technology scale and this pay and rail scale. I
think kind of the first domino was when Stripe acquired Bridge.
Shout out to Zach Love the Bridge team. Yeah, but
once that domino fell, it really put everything else into place.
And with the Genius Act, now these companies that were

(02:15):
testing and running pocs are now starting to go live,
so we're seeing enterprises, FinTechs PSPs really starting to go
live with their first proof of concepts.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
So it's exciting. Yeah, it's really exciting.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
And you know, we have a much more favorable environment
for crypto and it seems folks are optimistic. They're heads
down building, innovating, and we got the market structure build that's,
you know, coming up soon. What do you think about
the market structure when that gets past and what impact
it will have on the industry.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
So I try not to comment on pending regulation, but
I will say that it's just another very important step
to see who the regulator is going to be, both
through the commodities and the security side.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
So very excited to see what happens in the coming months,
Oh for sure.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
So give us a review of Polygon for those who
may not know what is Polygon, tell us about the
blockchain and much more.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
Yeah, so, Polygon historically is a legacy Layer two on
Ethereum EVM compatible. As of really the last year, we've
been very much focused on payments. Prior to me joining
in March, we really took a deep dive into our
data and we saw a significant organic growth in P
two P volume right now with the number one chain

(03:25):
for monthly active users for USDCOW and number three us
D T WOW. So we felt as if we needed
to really double down and triple down on payments. So
they brought out myself, my colleague Jamal who's former Bridge,
former cash App. Shout out to Jamal. We just hired
John Egan recently. It was a former head of crypto

(03:47):
at Stripe, and a Shwari who has been leading payments
at Polygon for four years now was former AMEX. So
after diving into some of the data, we really realized
that we wanted to go deep into payments what it
looks like today. We try to think of ourselves as consultants.
We're not selling financial services ourselves. We're really the payment

(04:08):
network for payment companies and enterprises to really get their
foot in the door for on chain payments. So when
we're talking to an enterprise or a payment company, trying
to educate them on some of the use cases and
trends that we're seeing, also getting an understanding of what
their current problems are, some of the gaps are, and
their businesses. Sure, we're finding a lot with the introduction

(04:31):
of stable coins, payouts and remittances is a natural use case.
Treasury management is a natural use case. So like as
an example, we're working with a top three money remitter.
These remittance companies are whole holding dormant capital right bank accounts.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
So they call it no shoe.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
So they might have a myriad of bank accounts in
which they're holding dormant capital in order to ledger. Let's
just say a transaction from dollars to BRL. They're holding
VRL in a bank account local in Brazil in which
they have the ledger off. So what stable coins provide
is the ability to now transact twenty four to seven,

(05:09):
move money inter company within their bank accounts twenty four
to seven and limiting some of that pre funding. So
that's just an example of understanding kind of the use
case us having payments experience on the other side right
now applying it to what the technology can provide.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
So yeah, to exciting times.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
And on that note, I read recently that flutter Wave
selected Polygon as is default blockchain for cross border payments.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yep, tell us about that.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yeah, super excited about Flutterwaves specifically when I came into
Polygon I think we're how we're thinking about things. Like
one of the things we talk about is modernization with
a purpose. We're not trying to bypass the banking rails.
We're trying to expand upon it and give access and inclusion.
And when we think about some of the markets where

(05:56):
we're going to have the greatest influence, Africa is definitely
one of them. Sure Utterwave is the largest payment company
in Africa.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Wow. So what the use case is today?

Speaker 3 (06:06):
They have a lot of enterprise merchants such as Uber
and Netflix right now except Nira. Nira is very volatile
to the dollar. So what they're doing as soon as
they accept that Nira, they are immediately swapping to a
stable coin usually USDT, and then now they're sitting on
a lot of USDT. What Futterwave is going to be
doing is now accepting deposits in stable coin, swapping to

(06:28):
a dollar, and then settling to Netflix and Uber's bank accounts.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
In the US. Wow.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
So we're really excited to be the default chain for
Flutterwave in their new build. But again, I think it's
US really understanding the use cases being on that side,
and we're in the business of solving problems and yeah,
super excited about Flutterwave and downstream as a phase two
they'll be rolling this out to consumers. So now some

(06:56):
of the on banks will now have access to dollars
nominated stable coins by just downloading a digital wallet.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
So super excited. That's incredible on many levels.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
That you have the largest payments company, is it the
payments company at Flairway?

Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yes, so they're fire so they okay, have deboc credit
card payments, also do local bank transfers.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
But they're a PSP. Okay.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
So if you're thinking about like Stripe is very big
in the US. Sure, you have companies like ad In
and check Out that are big globally. They are an
enterprise PSP for Africa.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
That's incredible.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
And then you know, I think about you mentioned the
unbanked and people who don't have financial services and now
through this technology are able to do that and access
the world's reserve currency, the dollar via stable coin, and
they can put that to work even in DeFi and
so forth.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Absolutely, No, it's very exciting and it's going to be
interesting seeing over the next few years. I think a
lot of multinational corporations are going to become FinTechs. Or
banks themselves. So if you think about uber like, obviously
they have large distribution, they're global, Like, what is the
look for them to have a digital law within their
experience and for folks to hold stable coins in order

(08:05):
to create more rewards or user stickiness with their users.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
So very excited about where we're going.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
And I think this technology or this payment rail takes
us from a system that historically has been really good
for a few markets such as the US, UK and
EU right now expands it to everyone and everywhere.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
So very excited.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, that's great stuff. Now we were talking before the recording,
I was looking at r WA, dot XYZ and Polygon
is up there with the amount of building that's happening
on it. Beyond stable coins, which is huge, of course,
are there other tokenization types happening?

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, so I would think.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
So there's a few products that we're working on our
payments use cases we're bringing on chain. One of them
is yield, So we're working with a lot of our
fintech partners. As an example, Lemon Cash in Latin America
has introduced highield savings accounts to their end users, and
that is backed by Polygon, r WA's or our WA's
issue shoot on Polygon. Oh wow, so they're more full
vaults than they might have. As an example, Black Rocks

(09:05):
Biddle or Apollo's a credit in a basket and on
the back end it will be RWAs on Polygon. On
the front end will just appear to be five to
six percent APY and a new savings account for a
user in Latin America. So that's exciting. We're also looking
at what effects on chain looks like. Yeah, very excited
about that. Right now, Polygon makes up about fifty percent

(09:26):
of the market cap and non USD denominated stable coins,
which is super exciting, very early days.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
Sharp liquidity is a.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
Very thin in some of those non USD stables, but
have to start somewhere. And then we're also looking at
what on chain credit looks like. So there's a lot
of demands to solve the weekend settlement crunch. Typically a
PSB or a merchant on a Friday they process X
amount of money, they won't get settled from their bank
until Monday or Tuesday of next week. We're trying to

(09:54):
solve that gap with stable coins. So exciting that it's
very very exciting.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Curious about the FX market that you mentioned, because we're
gonna see the digital u want and the digital yen
and it goes on and on right whether it's in
a CBDs C format or a stable coin.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
How that affects the FX market.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, No, it's it's going to be super interesting to
see how it plays out. We're hoping it's a lot
more of like retail facing experiences versus more wholesale and CBDC,
but we'll see. Right now, we're working on an FX dex,
working with partners such as Bitso in Latin America who
have issued MXN. We'll also have pairs and BRL cop

(10:36):
We're also working on the Singapore Dollar, which is issued
by straight x So, working with issuers globally. Yeah, to
introduce pairs to USDC USDT on O r FX decks,
which we plan to productize over the next year or two.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
Wow, so many things happening in the blockchain crypto space.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
It's amazing, super exciting man. Yeah, it feels like a.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Great time to be here building, especially now that we
have a favorable environment here in the United States.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
I wanted to.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Talk about ethereum, given that polygons a ethereum layer too,
and what does the feature of that look like, you know,
are we going to see a lot more Layer twos
that are focused on specific things like how polygons focus
and even corporates launching layer twos of their own.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah. No, that's a great question.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
Where I see Ethereum always being that trusted security and
compliance layer where colleaguon fits in. I think we have
chosen to specialize in payments. I think we'll see l
twos have their own specialization. We have a hypothesis that
change will become specialized and optimized for certain use cases.
High frequency trading might be one. Meme coins might be one.

(11:41):
We'll see, but we're going to focus on payments. But
I think Ethereum will always be that regulated core layer.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
That's secure and compliant.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
So Ethereum will always obviously be a very important partner
to us.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
I mean ETH is getting so much adoption as a
layer one the layer twos, But you look at black
Rock launching Biddle on eth first, right, So it feels
like it's the you know, bitcoins is digital goal store
of value and Eth is like this next layer on
the Internet that you can just build one hundred.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
No, it's that trusted settlement layer.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
Yeah, for this new Internet of value and it's uh,
it's really exciting and it's definitely the chosen one by
institutions and enterprises. So we think we're in a very
good position as an EVM compatible L two to really
scale payments on chain.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
Oh, for sure, as much as you can share what's
on your roadmap, what can we expect in twenty twenty six.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
Yeah, I think I touched upon it a little bit. Sure,
definitely the effect on chain is a very exciting component
for us. Sure Yield will continue working with FinTechs who
are really trying to add additional financial services that have
to do with high yield savings accounts. I think you'll
start to see a lot of Remen's companies starting to
introduce their own version of a neo bank or digital

(13:00):
wallet or a bank account. So super excited to be
able to support those companies. And on Chaine credit is
something that I think will be very big in the future.
Sure and really making settlements seven days a week versus
the current five days a week. Those are like the
three products that we're working on now, and I think
you'll start to see some new ideas come from Polygon

(13:24):
next year. Which I'll hope you'll be able to share
next year this time. Yeah, but I think those are
the three to focus on right now in the marketplace.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Well, since you're not far from where I live and
where my studio is, we're going to have to do
it in person to go through the details.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
That'd be really good.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
I would love to get your thoughts on the tokenization market,
because we're seeing a massive race there. Folks are tokenizing equities,
money market, precious metals, real estate, and so forth, and
it's the big institutions now leading to charge.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
What is your outlook on that market?

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yeah, I think what's super exciting it's giving access to
those that typically didn't have access globally. That's what I'm
really excited about, regarding some of these tokenized money market
funds issued by black Rock as an example. Sure, I
think it's really all about access and inclusion. Yeah, and
these tokenized products are just giving further access and liquidity
to those that typically in the past did not have access.

(14:17):
So I think that's what it's about, and it's exciting.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
And along the lines of what you know you were
mentioning earlier with Polygon's focus on payments and you know,
working with flatterwave and different parts of the world where
people couldn't access the dollar easily, but now in a
tokenized warn they could potentially access US stocks, yep, and
other funds and that could change their life.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yep. No, yeah, it's.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
I've mentioned earlier like modernization with a purpose and like
we're just very very excited to be on the forefront
of giving access to people that in the past did not.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
It's very very exciting, man.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah, yeah, and I love you know, it's one thing
to say, hey, this technology is great, but to see
it applied in the real world and helping I mean,
that's what it has to be at the end of
the day, right, yep, that's what I think.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
I hope a lot of us got into this space.
I know I started watching your podcast like seven eight
years ago when I first got into the space, and yeah,
you've done a lot for this industry, and I think
a lot of us got into.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
It with a purpose driven mindset.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
So we're finally at this I think we've just crossed
the starting gate across the chasm. Stable coins have product
market fit and yeah, a lot of it is rooted
in purpose, which is great.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Absolutely, Sam great stuff. We're going to have to do
a long form, but thank.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
You so much for joining on. Man. Thanks.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
This episode is brought to you by Uphold, which is
a great crypto platform that makes it easy to buy, sell,
and stay crypto assets. Uphold has over three hundred plus cryptocurrencies,
including Bitcoin in all the top all coins, and they
offer a crypto staking on over nineteen crypto assets. I've
been a user of the platform for many years. They

(15:58):
are safe and reliable, they don't commingle or lend out
your crypto funds, and they are one hundred percent reserve.
You can review their transparency report. Uphold also offers an
amazing rewards program where you can earn up the five
point two five percent on stable coins. This rewards program
also allows you to get twenty four hour early access

(16:18):
to new tokens that they list, and to participate, you
just simply have to open the app once per month,
deposit fifty dollars once per month, and trade fifty dollars
once per month. And the stable coins that they support
includes Ripples, r L, USD. You can earn up to
five percent on that stable coin and five point two
five percent on USBC. So if you do like to

(16:39):
learn more about Uphold and all the great services they offer,
Visit the link in the description.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Ruthie's Table 4

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Stablecoin Payments on the Polygon Blockchain are SURGING! with Sam Fagin

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Ruthie's Table 4

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

Stablecoin Payments on the Polygon Blockchain are SURGING! with Sam Fagin

Stuff You Should Know