Ep.171 Mysterious Morning / Summer Of 1976 (Throwback)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You'll be away five seventeen.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Do you want to report a UFO hanging in?

Speaker 3 (00:05):
We don't want.

Speaker 4 (00:06):
To report every thirty one.

Speaker 5 (00:08):
Do you wish to.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Report a UFO over hey, we want to one of
those areas thirty one.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Do you wish to find a report of any kind
of it?

Speaker 3 (00:18):
I wouldn't know what kind of reports clouds, time areas
thirty one me neither there were self. If it was
anybody h above us to pass us, Like thirty seconds ago,
we were sending one top of golf negative, okay, OFFI
the UFO. Yeah, it's murder ten nine o'clock.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yes, I'll passed over, I go.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
I don't know what it was, but it's from at
least to three thousand feet above us.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
See, I passed right over the top of.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
US ninety one one.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
You just called up to me before they're after staying
the airplanes.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
He is.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
To God on an unidentified object every Liberty four call
or calm on an unidentified flying object.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
A Welcome to UFO Chronicles a place where people share
their experiences of the strange and unexplained. If you've had
an encounter, I would like to be on the show.
You can email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com.

(01:48):
Hello everyone, and welcome to the show. Wherever in the
world you are listening from. How are you all? I'm
Nick Hunter and this is UFO Chronicles podcast. We start
off today with Franchesca in the UK and her strange
encounter with the sighting of a UFO, followed by a
meeting with a strange man. Then, remaining in the UK,

(02:09):
we meet Pastor David Parry. He is a self confessed
experiencer who has interacted with both the supernatural and the
paranormal since being a child. He saw a physical silvery
disk in the sky while at school with the other
children on the school yard, but his greatest interaction with
realms beyond was in the summer of nineteen seventy six

(02:30):
through repeated encounters with bores of light in various colors,
who he believes were trying to enrich his horizons. If
you enjoy listening to the podcast and would like to
help support my work, there is a couple of ways
to do this. Either you can join Patreon and become
a patron of the show for as Lutler's five dollars
a month, or you can donate via PayPal and if

(02:52):
you like, you can set up monthly reoccurring payments. All
links to support the podcast are below, in the show
notes and on the web site. Any help is extremely
appreciated and it helps the show to continue running. Now
on with the show. Hello Francesca, and welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 4 (03:26):
Hello, thank you for having me.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
You're more than welcome. You're calling from mckent and the
United Kingdom.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
Yes, yeah, that's correct, on.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
A fine sunny Easter weekend.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
Yes, lovely.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Now you're going to be sharing an unusual encounter you
had on the way to work one morning. Would you
like to start the very beginning please, ran Jessica.

Speaker 6 (03:47):
Yeah, sure, it's yeah, it was rather peculiar, and I
have must admit it's been bugging me ever since.

Speaker 4 (03:52):
So it was the fifth of August last.

Speaker 6 (03:55):
Year, which I believe was a Tuesday, and I was
walking to work as usual, and it was, I think,
like today, a very nice and clear sunny day. And
it's probably about I guess, between a half eight and
quarter to nine, and the route that I take to
work it sort of goes out. I was trying to
explain the area because otherwise it's a little bit confusing,

(04:15):
but I walk down.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
Past the car park, and then in front of me is.

Speaker 6 (04:22):
Like a it's like a little wooded area which backs
onto the railway line, and it's very sort of uneven
ground and there's nothing really there.

Speaker 4 (04:32):
It's just sort of on news land, I guess, with trees.

Speaker 6 (04:36):
And then as I walked so I sort of cut
through that onto the into another car park, and then
I walked through the car park, if that makes sense.
So as I was walking past the first car park
down towards the trees, there was absolutely no one around,
which is quite unusual because I would say, when I'm
walking to work usually there's a fair few people that

(04:58):
I would normally pass.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
But it might have been during one of the lockdowns.

Speaker 6 (05:02):
I can't really remember now, so I suppose I could
explain it. So as I was walking along I saw this.
The only way I can describe it is it was
like a triangular lying object of some sort. I want
to say. Maybe it's hard to say because of the
distance away I was from it, and that I'm not

(05:23):
very good at sort of guessing how large it was,
but I would estimate maybe between two and two and
a half meters across, possibly possibly slightly larger. I'm not sure,
but it was completely black. It almost looked like a
you know people when they do paragliding, So it's sort
of like a triangular shape coming.

Speaker 4 (05:43):
Down out of nowhere.

Speaker 6 (05:45):
Really, I can't say I knew how it got there,
and it went down into the trees and then just
sort of I lost sight of it. And when I
saw it, I just stopped in my tranks because I
was so It.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
Took me so off guard.

Speaker 6 (06:01):
You know, I take that route to work every day,
and it's just I never expected to see anything quite
that strange when I was walking.

Speaker 4 (06:09):
But underneath the black, underneath the sort.

Speaker 6 (06:13):
Of triangle, a part of it, it looked like there
was something hanging underneath like a The only way I
can describe it is like a Duffel bag kind of shape,
you know, that kind of shape, but I guess solid,
and that would have gone from like the tip of
the triangle to the bag. But yeah, it sort of
went down, came out of nowhere. I went down behind

(06:34):
it sort of into the trees, and then I lost
sight of them, and I didn't really know what to do.
As I said, the ground there was quite uneven, quite rugged,
and I just sort of thought, well, I'm in my
work clothes, I can't really just take a trip down there,
and it's technically private property, I think, so I decided
to give it a miss. I was just so surprised.

(06:56):
I thought, Okay, maybe it's not a good idea to
go down there. Just continue, So I went. I took
my normal route, went round, and obviously I was still
trying to keep a lookout for it as I walked past,
but I couldn't see it anymore. I couldn't see sort
of where it had landed, if it had landed, or
whether it had just swooped low and gone back off somewhere.

Speaker 4 (07:17):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (07:18):
And as I cut through the trees and started walking
through the second car park, I noticed that a man
on a bicycle was cycling towards me. And normally though
I would say that the car park is fairly busy,
but on this occasion it was quite empty, which is
fairly unusual, I suppose. As he was cycling towards me,
I had this moment, why I thought so clearly in

(07:42):
my head, I thought he needs to ask me to
put directions, And so I stopped, and he slowed down
and stopped next to me, and I looked at him
and asked him if he was all right, and I
was just out he's so certain that he needed to
ask me for directions. But he didn't say a single

(08:05):
word to me.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
He just.

Speaker 6 (08:08):
Made He just grinned at me the whole time and
didn't say a single word. And so I was just
was standing there staring at this man, and he looked
quite unusual. He was extremely tall and very pale, and
he had quite sort of I guess, like very pale eyes,
and he was dressed in this neon colored like you

(08:31):
know people who do professional sort of like biking, or
they do it a lot, and they wear like the
Likera sort of brightly colored cycle gear. And it was
it was just most peculiar, because I have to say
I have never I mean, people obviously cycle wherever they want,
but I can't say I would imagine that somebody cycling

(08:53):
for a specific reason in that sort of outfit would
ever have decided to take a shortcut through her car bug.
But so yeah, I'm we're staring at each other. He's
just grilling at me, and I then I thought, okay,
this is getting weird now, So hydid Bartim are you okay?
And he just kept grinning at me, and I started

(09:16):
to get a bit nervous at this point, because it
was only then that I really thought to myself, I'm
standing alone in a car park with this man who
was not speaking to me, So jay seems quite ridiculous.
But so I thought, Okay, well, if he's not going
to speak to me, he obviously doesn't need to ask

(09:37):
for directions. I'm so I'm going to leave. So at
this point I felt a little bit unsafe, so I
started to walk away. As I started to walk away,
he started to cycle around me on his bike. So
I then walked away very quickly, and as I got
to the edge of the car park, I turned around
and he had gone. He was no longer there. I

(09:58):
just wanted to check that he wasn't following me, but
he was gone. But it was just the combination of
seeing the strange sort of flying object coming down out
of the sky and then immediately bumping into that man
and his just general behavior and demeanor just felt very strange.

(10:21):
And it's been sort of bothering me ever since. I
sort of I thought to myself it could have been
some sort of drone, so I was looking up different
types of drones and talking to my husband who's more
familiar with sort of drones and things like that, but
I couldn't see that it really I mean, I don't
think any drones are really that big. I can't see why,

(10:45):
you know, when I think about where it came from,
just out of them, out of nowhere, and it sort
of just disappeared into the trees, and I thought something
of that size, I'm not sure how that could have happened.
And then the band seeming came out of nowhere. But yeah,
so that is basically what I saw. And it was
only then that I thought to myself, I really need

(11:07):
to know what this is. So I was sort of
out there, sort of doing a bit of minor research
on whether anybody else is seeing anything similar, and I
sort of just fell down a rabbit hole. And that
is actually how I found your podcast.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, it's usually help people find it down a rabbit hole.

Speaker 5 (11:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (11:23):
So yeah, I thought I would just reach out and
see if I don't know, anybody else had heard anything similar,
or if you'd heard anything particularly similar.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
I mean, cupped with the strange object you saw quite
early in the morning. Yeah, and followed by the strange individual.
A lot of you know, a lot of people have
strange encounters. I've just just edited one now, and this
guy had a strange encounter with this couple, which which
didn't see they didn't seem right. I mean, of course,
you know, we're going to meet nutters here and there,

(11:53):
but sometimes you meet people when there's just something different
about them.

Speaker 6 (11:57):
Yeah, it was just it was just a fat that
as he was cycling towards me, I had it. It
was like imprinted in my mind that he needed to
ask me for directions. And I don't know why I
thought that, because you know, you come across like I
walked past many people normally on the way to work,
and I never have ever stopped and thought, oh, that

(12:18):
particular person needs to ask me for directions.

Speaker 4 (12:21):
And then you didn't say a single word to me.
It was most SPECULA didn't.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
Say a word and just looked at you grinning.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
Yeah, he was grilling the whole time.

Speaker 6 (12:32):
It was Yeah, I mean really, when I think back
on me, if it was nighttime, it would have been
quite frightening. But I suppose as it was quite early
in the morning and I was probably still quite sleepy,
and is.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
It a route you usually take?

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (12:46):
Yeah, And in fact, when I so, I got to
work and I said to my colleagues, I said, I've
just had the strangest experience and I briefly explained it,
and they were like, that is that is weird? And
they suggest did and my husband said the same that
I don't take that route to work anymore, or I
switch it on just in case it was I don't know,

(13:08):
some person that actually was following me or something like that.
But I felt compelled to continue to walk that route
because I just felt like I felt like I needed
to meet him again.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
I don't know why. I just felt completely compelled.

Speaker 6 (13:23):
I thought, I really wish that I could meet that
guy again, because I need to ask him who he
is and where he came from.

Speaker 4 (13:29):
But no, I haven't seen him since.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
Never seen him since. Unusual. That's a strange one, it.

Speaker 6 (13:36):
Is, Yeah, although I suppose he could have been a
completely normal person and perhaps he thought I was strange.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
Who knows it's normal to say something or isn't it?

Speaker 4 (13:45):
Yeah, it was very strange.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
He saw you had stopped, so if he stopped, surely
you know you would do it as you are you okay?

Speaker 6 (13:53):
Yeah, exactly, That's what I was thinking. I really, I
really thought he was going to say something to me.
It was just the fact that he was screening the
whole time, and I thought it's suddenly playing a frank
on me.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Even if he didn't speak English, he would have gestured something, you.

Speaker 6 (14:09):
Know, yeah, or sort of said like I don't speak
English or something like that.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (14:13):
And I think normally when you see I sort of
thought maybe if he was professionally cycling somewhere for some reason,
maybe there.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
Would have been more he would have been with more people, or.

Speaker 6 (14:27):
I would have seen more cyclists, because you know, sometimes
you do see that sort of a group of people together.
But it was just the fact that there was absolutely
no one else around just seemed really strange to me, because,
as I said, normally there are quite a few people
that I would walk pass.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
On the way to work.

Speaker 6 (14:44):
Even throughout sort of the lockdown, the different lockdowns that
we've had, it's just been bothering me since I feel
like I need to know not only who the man was,
but what the flying object was that I saw, And
I almost I really wish that I'd gone down look
for it. But unfortunately, something something told me not to,

(15:06):
so I just didn't.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
So the object it was two and a half meters,
I think.

Speaker 6 (15:11):
So, although I am generally quite bad sort of approximating measurements,
but yeah, I would say it had to be at
least two two and a half meters possibly, Okay.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
So about six and a half seven foot something like that.
The area it was just a wooded area, was it
Was it hilly? Is it hilly all around the area?

Speaker 4 (15:31):
Kind of?

Speaker 6 (15:32):
Yeah, I mean it's it's a very small sort of
wooded area. It's it's sort of it dips down, so
it's almost, yeah, sort of a hill downwards and the
land is very sort of uneven, and it's sort of
it borders on the railway line, and then behind the
railway line I think is more trees. So I almost
saw it come down, yeah, past those back trees and

(15:53):
then into the into the trees that were sort of
in front of me, and then it sort of just vanished.
And I thought something that size would be unlikely, it
would be unlikely that it would be not be visible
from the pavement because it's not sort of like a
huge wooded area. It's yeah, it's just sort of unused land.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
I think, hmm, interesting. I mean, I actually saw a
paraglider a couple of hours ago from my garden when
I was out there, and they're quite you know, they're
quite distinctive. You see a paraglider, you kind of realize,
you know, especially if you've seen them before.

Speaker 6 (16:27):
Because I think when I first saw it, I think
I had this thought in my head and I was like,
I was trying to work out what it was as
I stopped and stared at it, and I thought.

Speaker 4 (16:35):
The two things I thought were it could have.

Speaker 6 (16:37):
Been a drone, and then I thought, no, it's a
bit too big, I think, And then I thought, could
that be a paraglider?

Speaker 4 (16:43):
And I was looking to see if there was a
person underneath?

Speaker 6 (16:46):
And obviously, as I said, there was sort of a
black a black oblong ish shape underneath, but it was
it was solid, and I thought, Okay, so that's not
a person. But I suppose, I mean that I suppose
there was a chance it could have it could have
been a person.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
Better And did you have you googled around your area,
specifically around your area to see if anybody had had
any you know, strange occurrences along that path.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
No.

Speaker 6 (17:11):
I I did sort of have a bit of a Google,
but it's hard to know what to search sometimes, isn't it.
And a lot of the things that I found were
sort of just from the Kent era in general, not
sort of local to where I was. So yeah, I
don't think there wasn't anything that I could see that
was sort of.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
A similar That's a strange one.

Speaker 4 (17:32):
It certainly was.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
See, the one I'm releasing on Sunday is this guy
and at the time, he lived in a little town
where everyone knew each other. And he was saying he
was out of his friends at a bar and this
couple came in. And this couple, he said, they were,
you know, very strange looking, and they were aware in
his kind of seventies gear. He said, they didn't live
in the town because you know, everyone knew everyone in

(17:54):
this town. You know, Americas liked small town America. Yeah,
And he said they came over to speak to him,
and he chat him for a while, and then from
that bar, they or the group decided to go back
to someone's backyard to have a few beers. And they
came to and they were talking to him and they said,
we're not from around here. We're from out of space.
But now and again you will hear people that have

(18:16):
had these encounters with people. And like I said, you know,
you're always going to meet nutters in the street. That's normal.
But sometimes you meet people which not quite right or
do not quite belong.

Speaker 4 (18:27):
Yeah, it's just.

Speaker 6 (18:29):
A weird you know, when you sort of just look
at someone and you think something doesn't add up here
it was the whole Yeah, as you said, like with
the last person who spoke to the fact that they
were sort of dressed in complete seventies gears, like I'm
looking at this man in this like neon different colored
sort of like for a situation, and just thinking something

(18:50):
about him just was not you, I don't know, just
not normal.

Speaker 4 (18:54):
It's odd to explain, and this is probably going to
bug you now it is.

Speaker 6 (18:58):
Yeah, and I'd just really wish that, you know, when
I was sort of googling initially, I thought I was
thinking to myself, eventually I'm going to come across something
and I'll know, I'll know, like you know, somebody will
have had the same experience or a similar thing happen,
and I'll say, okay, yeah, that is it, or perhaps
I'll find a drone that looks exactly like what I

(19:19):
saw and that will answer the question. But I just
say I don't think that's going to happen somehow.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
So to our listeners out there, if if you've had
a strange encounter with someone on the path around the
Kent area, get in contact. I'm sure Francesca would like
to know she's not the only one. Yes, wonderful, Okay,
that's perfect.

Speaker 4 (19:37):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
Enjoy your weekend now, and you take care of yourself.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
You do.

Speaker 5 (19:42):
Bye.

Speaker 7 (20:05):
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Speaker 3 (21:06):
Welcome to the show, Pastor Parry.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
It's a huge pleasure and a deep on a nick
to be on your show. I admire your work no
end and it's a necessary and educative service that you're
giving to anyone, to everyone, to anyone and everyone. I'm very,
very grateful to be one of your guests.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
Wonderful. It is my pleasure. And you're calling from London
in the UK.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
For my sins, which I'm sure there are very many.
I currently in London in the UK. Yeah, on election
night for local elections, of course, with people prowling up
and down this road trying to change my mind. I've
already voted, so it's a bit late for that, but
yet hating in South London for the time.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
Beginning now, Pastor Parry, you have interacted with both supernatural
and the paranormal since you're a child. Would you be
so kind as to let the listeners know a little
bit about yourself if you like, and a little bit
about your experiences?

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Wow? In otherwise, I'm going to first I here to
break one of the rules with which we discussed a
minute ago and explain the three types of Catholic. There
are three types of official Catholic, Roman Catholic, Alexandrian Catholic
and Antiochian Catholic, coming from the old ancient city of Antioch.
You know the Syrians, they're all official. They all developed

(22:21):
roughly at the same time. And as I said to
you earlier, you know, if I get a Rome, they
called me father. So there's no argument about being speech
marks official Catholic. But obviously we're very small in this country.
So I'm a very proud non Roman Catholic, but Catholic pastor.
I'm the founding pastor of St Valentine's Hall, which is

(22:42):
an openly LGBTQI plus chapel of worship in Balum in
South London. I'm a poet. I'm a reasonably well developed
reputation as a British poet. I'm very honored to be
part of that tradition that stream. I also dip into
theater every now and again is one of my great
passions and I can honestly hand on heart say as

(23:03):
a clergyman, I'm a serial experiencer for both supernatural and
paranormal modalities of experience, most of which I haven't talked
about until recently because two things, you know, there are
only so many hours in the day. I mean, I
don't think you punter with deep love and respect, realizes
what the life of a clergyman is like. You know,
you're lucky to get six hours sleep, so there isn't time.

(23:27):
And also I haven't really found many suitable outlets. But
the moment I was connected with this show, I thought, yes,
that's a must. Let's give it a go, and it's
explore some interesting themes.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
Wonderful. Okay, so your your first experience? When did it begin?
When you're a child?

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Wow? I make a very strong distinction between supernatural and paranormal.
I mean, I think the key is in the words itself. Technically,
Oh my god, I'm going to get theological on you
for a minute, Nick. I mean, technically, there's only one
supernatural thing, and that is God, above and beyond every
single will system. So technically that's the only supernatural thing.

(24:06):
But I mean people, you know, in modern modern discussion,
the way the word is used nowadays, they do talk
about the supernatural. They tend to link things like ghosts,
you know, apparitions, angels, demons with those realms. I suppose,
you know, the language is changing slowly and now they
say other dimensions. But I mean, traditionally you'd have just

(24:27):
said the supernatural realms as opposed to the paranormal realms.
I mean, I remember reading Lyyl Watson's remarkable books SuperNature
many many years ago and thinking, this guy is onto something.
You know, the paranormal and extra bit of the normal world.
You know, the world we experience with our five senses,
which can probably be extended into a couple of extra senses,

(24:49):
but it's still a part of our world. You're not
talking about other dimensions and so on. I suppose you know.
One of the interesting themes is that my spiritualism has
run in my family for at least three generations. We
don't know how formerly that was, but you know, you
get the odd aunts turning up at Christmas having had
an attack of the vapors with a local medium. Do

(25:10):
you know what happened then? Which was always fascinating? I mean,
certainly for me, I think it's been part and past
my life forever. But certainly the main ones I suppose
I can kick off with, for want of a better phrase,
is my first silvery disc ufo experience when I was
at school, which taught me so much about this world

(25:32):
as opposed to any other world. I was a young
cub at a country school. I grew up in Fareham
in Hampshire, which is a beautiful it did it leafy,
or at least it was then part of the world
to grow up in again, a little rural paradise, not
much going on, although of course it's between the cities
of Portsmouth and Southampton. Now that's important because of course

(25:53):
Portsmouth has a major naval dockyard, so there are links
with the heavy artillery of our of our services, and
the late Navy in particular, which of course in Britain
has a reputation for unusual engineering and interest in the paranormal.
People tend to forget that it's not the army here,
it tends to be the Navy. Don't know why. I'm
sure there are people out there that know much more

(26:14):
than me, but I have noticed that during the years anyway,
we were all in the playground. Primary school on the
verge of secondary school. I went to secondary school slightly
late because it was a tidy viage school. Of the
teachers were sick, so you know, they didn't want people
rushing between but not like the military regimes nowadays. They

(26:34):
didn't want people rushing. And it was during my swan
song in late primary school. We all saw it, this perfect, beautiful, gliding, silent,
silvery disc way above us in the sky. It didn't
make a sound. It was devastating me. Beautiful. That was
my first reaction, and that's my abiding reaction to this day.

(26:58):
Everyone in the school yard saw it. The reaction amongst
the kids, my heavens, these things show so much about
human nature. Some ran off and ahead the cowards. Others
started arguing, isn't that weird? I, for one, was sort of,
I don't know, just a gog at this little marvel
floating above us, way above us, but floating above us

(27:20):
in the air. I with a with a few of
the more robust kids, went into the teacher's common room.
It was their tea break, and you know, we're saying
things like, by the way, miss, there's a UFO floating
over the playground. We were told to go away, don't
be silly. Oh that's interesting. Oh really, well, we can
talk about it in class. They wouldn't come out. Yes,

(27:40):
I know it's their tea break, but if a little
miracle breaks out, you don't just ignore it and get
on with your cup of tea. They wouldn't come out.
The thing floated away. We went back into our classrooms
when that, of course, the Prefect came out, ringing a bell.
I'm a god that dates me, doesn't it ringing a bell?
And we all went back into our classrooms and the
first thing the teachers say it is we want no

(28:01):
talk of UFOs and all of that. So I lost
my faith in British education that day. I've done rather
well that it since, but that's no thanks to them.
And it showed me what not only what human nature
is like to my young sensitive mind, but also what
open you know, discussion is in this country. In other words,

(28:22):
there isn't any and you know it's to do with
one's prejudices. You either accept an ideology or you don't,
so you've given up the sort of Greek ideal of
research and truth in science, which is ridiculous. So that
was my impression of the silvery disk. Do I know
it was real? Do I know it was some sort
of mechanism? Yes to both counts. And that's my experience.

(28:43):
I suppose of the glittering paranormal at a very early age.
I never forgot it or people's reactions to it.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
Several other school friends all saw it what kind of
size would you've said this disc was, you know, you know, roughly.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Gosh, I'd say the size and I'm guessing, because it
was a long time ago and I'm absolute crap of
that sort of thing, I'd say it was the size
of about two buses too, London buses. And it wasn't
just a couple of my friends. Absolutely everybody in the
schoolyard saw it.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
The whole school yard, apart from the teachers.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Well, they wouldn't come out to look. Yeah, I've never
forgotten that. They just refused point blank to come out
and look. It was their tea break. You know how
often does that happen during somebody's tea break? Oh yeah,
why not be a revolutionary and bring a mug of
tea with you. But they just refused, point blank.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
Just put it down to children in their flights of fantasy.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Yeah yeah, So you know when the skeptical mob are always,
you know, reacting to these shows with actually some quite
species arguments, sometimes I just sit there grinning. Right, I'm
sorry you haven't had the experience I have, and I
know what it's like. I'm not saying I know what
it was because in those days, I wouldn't have made

(29:55):
a connection with you know, unusual technologies. That was a
craft of some so I'll be talking about noncraft, you know,
very very different phenomena in a moment, But it was
a craft. It was a vehicle of some sort. You know.
I wouldn't have made the connection obviously because I was
a kid with something like experimental naval technology which can't
be ruled out, or something young and you know, weird

(30:19):
archetypes trying to take place in this world, you know,
trying to manifest in this world. It was all too young.
I was too young. But no, I mean it's these
things happen, and they happen on a regular basis. But
I really think it's time our debate, not only within
these circles, but outside these circles started to mature a
little more. You know, whether they are classed as aerial

(30:40):
phenomenon by the Americans or just plain old UFOs. It's
time to admit, yes, something is happening, something incredibly interesting,
and debate like adults because it affects every one of us.
Since it's true it does.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, and you were just one of many people which
have had these experiences, and you know, so many people don't,
you know, don't come forward and don't share it.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
Yeah, yeah, I can understand why. I suppose, you know,
people have busy lives and look at the reactions that
most experiences get unless they want to make a career
out of it. All the stole warts. You know, this
happened to me, and I'm proud of that. But no,
that's why I think it's time for the entire debate
to mature. I think we all know at the back
of our minds now, at the very least, something is

(31:21):
going on. But since it is such a universal and
constant phenomena, we really need to be adults and start
asking some really tough questions like what is this and
how does it impact us? Is it for good? Is
it for ill? And remember there are stories for good
and ill with this particular phenomena. You know, I remember

(31:42):
going up at a slight tangent. Oh what was it?
The guy that played Jacques Valet, that was it? I
can't remember. Agents of Deception. I mean he was employed
by NASA as a scholar, of course, to look into
this phenomena many many years ago, and he came out
with some incredibly worrisome ideas that you know, these phenomena,

(32:02):
which is probably leading me into the next piece of
our discussion. These phenomena can't really be said to be
uniformly good. And you know, the way they interact with
people at times is on the verge of the demonic
and certain I'm not saying that's my attitude. Do you
have much more complex attitude than that, but you know,
and the way when people are taken onto these physical vehicles,
if physical is the correct word, I mean, you know,

(32:24):
I mean they're making a you know, let's put ourselves
on an alien spacecraft for a moment. They're making a
real cockup of this survey. I mean, you know, let's
send them a couple of textbooks from any decent university library.
This is what the world is like, This is how
a human beings configured. This is our physiology, These are
our blood groups. You know, So it can't be that,
you know, that survey for any technologically advanced civilization would

(32:46):
have been concluded years ago. Yeah. And also, you know,
if you look at what human human technologists are saying now,
they could have basically machines the size of a great
floating around and collecting blood samples. Based on this new
drone technology. So why these aliens interacting with us if
that's what they are in this bizarre way, which to
me begins to sound more like a ritual than an

(33:09):
actual sort of experimental encounter. But as I say, you know,
those aren't completely my thoughts. I'm just aware that they're there,
and that's maybe another reason why we need to grow
up and say, Okay, how is this phenomena impacting us?
And is it for our good as human beings? Well,
this is when I get more pastory. I suppose more
of a pastor. I'm very honored to be a Catholic pastor.

(33:31):
I'm a priest that actually works as a pastor. I mean,
that's why people tend to very kindly see pastor. I
know some people in my own church that would like,
we did us shut up about all this? But I
don't think we can. You know, I think we're duty
bound as honest human beings looking for the truth. Ye
shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
As it says in Gospel of John, if any true

(33:52):
words were ever said, I don't know when they were,
because that is what we got to keep in mind.
I would say that my experiences of supernatural realm way
outbalances and outnumbers my experience of unusual technologies and the
paranormal realms. I'll take one year when I proved my spurs.
I got my spurs as an experiencer. So as I say,

(34:13):
you know, if I look back, it was the life
changing summer of nineteen seventy six which caught my attention
as an interactor with those realms, someone getting responses from
and reacting to those realms. It started. I mean, I
used to live in the part of Ferrem in Hampshire
in that that sort of you know, my parents' home,

(34:37):
which was Ferem on the verge of Titchfield, this idyllic
little medieval village that had largely kept its form, so
you know, very leafy, lots of back lanes, lots of
you know, lots of rustling in the trees and that
sort of stuff. You know. Seeing the starscapes in the
evening was amazing because there wasn't that much light pollution.
And I used to have the drear task of walking

(34:59):
my mother's do you know why didn't she ever ask
me if I wanted to? But that's an old gripe
from many years ago. Maybe I didn't, mum, if you're
listening from wherever you are now, and sort of a
you know, there was a lane called Fisher's Lane, which
was this beautiful little lane going down from Fareham leading
you into Titchfield and the spectacular ruins of Chitchfield Abbey,

(35:21):
close to a pub, the Fisherman's Rest, which I frequented
as a teenager with a healthy thirst later on, you know,
and there was beautiful, beautiful, beautiful settings. I was walking
early summer with the dog, with my mother's dog, and
suddenly had the need to look upwards. There was no
explanation whatsoever. I did it involuntarily and instinctively. I've never

(35:44):
known to this day what prompted me to look up,
but I knew, no matter what, I had to look
directly above me into the air. What did I say?
Two balls of orange lights attached to each other in
an adjacent fashion, literally plummeting to towards me at an
unbelievable speed, And it was so real and felt so physical,

(36:08):
although of course it wasn't. And we're dealing with I think,
very different types of entity that I didn't know what
to do. You know, I'm still on the spot. Do
I run, do I stand still? What do I do?
They made a U turn i'd say, a couple of
hundred feet above my head and shot back up into
the sky and then disappeared. That it shook me very

(36:28):
very much, I told my parents when I got home.
So I think, yes, you know, late night in the
evening in a Hampshire home. I don't think people are
very interested in these things. They took it as one
of those things. I don't know what that's meant to mean,
but I think that's very British. It shook me to
the core, as I say, because it was completely out
of the blue, and it wasn't of this realm, and
I could sense that, I could sense these are the
activities of spirits, of plasma beings. I'm not too sure

(36:51):
those things are so distinct, literally entities from elsewhere, and
that much literally weeks of intense activity with balls of
light of various colors and various descriptions, nearly every night
for months. It was nearly the whole summer. Yeah. Sometimes
they'd be a breathtaking white color, slight bluish tinge sometimes

(37:14):
at the edges, but blue. I think that was the
main color. Looking back through you know, we kick kick
with those ones. I think I'll tell you one experience
that certainly stuck with me through all these years. I
was getting to the stage of working with them, and
I knew they were interacting with me, and they were
they were interested in what my reactions were and wanted
me to communicate with them. So I said, in my mind,

(37:36):
how do I know that you're not just some sort
of projection, You're not some sort of fantasy. You know,
you're something about my own mind and mind circumstances that
I really don't understand at the moment. Why don't you
prove to me for once that you're there and something
absolutely extraordinary. And I'd say it was about fifty feet
above my head. This ball of light shot down the
road in front of me, leaving a trail like a comet.

(37:59):
At the very end the comet, there were a number
of colors, including orange and amber, but the ball of
light itself, sparkling white, glorious, pure, radiant light, shot down
the road in front of me. Now you've got to
remember this is a market town, and in those days
they didn't have street lights everywhere, and we lived in
that part affair and that wasn't given to many street

(38:21):
lights and investment by the local council. What I didn't know.
I knew there were trees down the road, someway in
front of me. I didn't know there was a courting
couple hidden in the trees because it was just too
dark and it was too far away. I remember the
young girl to this day shouting out what the was that?

(38:41):
And then it disappeared, disappeared. It had answered me and
it had disappeared. I suppose. I'll move on to the
last experience of that particular group, and you know, my
whole feeling was of something angelic, something above, something beyond,
something advanced, something in lightning. I had absolutely no no
feeling that anything bad was happening. You know, what did

(39:03):
the silvery disk do for me? I mean it left
me quite neutral, you know, oh god, what was that
be interesting to find out? Whereas this did not leave
me neutral, These interactions I found stretching, I found inspiring.
You know, I always tend to know a genuine experiencer,
because you know, one never knows what to do with
these experiences apart from com on wonderful shows like this.

(39:24):
But the last one and I knew it was the
last one. It was almost telling me it was the
last one. Late evening, late summer, late evening. The sun
was still in the sky, so I could see one
of these silvery balls sort of approaching me, but having
lost the need to get too close, it suddenly generated.
It started floating upwards. It suddenly started generating around itself

(39:48):
a series of colors. Do you know, I wish i'd
written it down, neck, I wish I'd written it down.
It wasn't Roy GBB. It wasn't the colors of the
spectrum as we know it, you know, red, orange, yellow.
It was different sequence. It floated upwards, it generated these
colors around itself, and then was gone. And my initial
thought was, oh, my heavens. If I'd have seen that

(40:09):
back in the days of the Vikings, I'd have said,
I'd just seen an as guardian. I'd just seen someone
from Valhalla climbing up the rainbow bridge, you know, and
what is the rainbow bridge? Of course, the higher levels
of vibration, it was increasing its levels of vibration to
go back to where it came from. Obviously a much
you know, it was this modern new age talk, you know,

(40:30):
a much higher density than the one where on, and
it had to prepare itself to do that and start,
you know, vibrating in a much higher rate. I knew
there and then that was the end of that particular
cycle of events. I've only ever had one dark experience,
an experience of the darkness, which sort of I don't
know what this says about me. That's certainly which had

(40:51):
happened slightly before the last ball of light. I mean
I again walking down Fisher's Hill with my mother's dog,
which was my want. I'd say a week less than
a week. A week before this had happened. And I
don't know. Again, seeing above the trees. For me, it
was always, you know, look to the skies, looked at
the skies. That was the constant theme running through all

(41:11):
of my encounters in those days. And something like a
gap in space. Now obviously it wasn't a gap in space.
It looked like a negative within a negative. I could
suddenly sense above the trees. It slowly took the form
of a gigantic bat, and I mean about twenty to
thirty foot, so not a back bat. It's different sort

(41:32):
of about it started struggling with these you know, lookerlike
wings to try and fly a bit higher. Weird stuff. Instinctively,
I knew it was bad and I disliked it. Instinctively,
I got the feeding back that it was bad and
it disliked me, and it just couldn't really raise the
necessary level of energy and momentum to do anything, and

(41:52):
literally faded away into the night sky. Curiously. I mean
I mentioned it that way around because I knew the
balls of Light experiences were come to an end at
that point. And of course about half a week a
week later, I see whatever the entity was, the spirit
climbing the rainbow bridge back to the realms of glory,
and that finished that particular summer of interactions with the realms.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
Beyond the summer of seventy six.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Life changing Nick, I've never, ever, ever forgotten the fact
that it's constant when it wants to be. And you
don't come away from these things the same person. You
come away with a different attitude and a different mindset
to the one you had before.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
That's absolutely right, you don't. And you were interacting with
them as well, so there was some form of communication
between you as yourself and them.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Oh, I'll tell you something weird. That I've only just
started thinking again recently. It was almost though they were
trying to communicate with me, don't you think it's just
time to get on with it?

Speaker 5 (42:51):
Now?

Speaker 2 (42:51):
I've never quite known what that meant, you know. The
whole attitude was, you know, you're meant to be doing something.
Don't you think it's time you got on with it?
Like gentle reminders all the time of something to be done.
Who knows, you know, perhaps it shows like this all
these years later, but certainly that was the running theme.
And as I say, my experiences mostly have been of
light enlightenment and you know, deeper consciousness, expanded consciousness and

(43:15):
things like that.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Yeah, and there's something I hear quite a lot when
it comes to authors, musicians, artists, they have a very
similar thing where there kind of prompted and pushed in
a certain direction.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah. I think if you're in the service but wanted
a much better description of creativity, you know, there's an expectation,
you know, let's get a new age vocabulary again. You know,
the universe wants something, it wants something given back to
the universe, which I've always thought was true and always
you know, tends to be a vital thing and uplifting,
an energizing thing for everybody involved. I mean, you know,

(43:48):
I wonder I've been thinking recently. I'm completely honest with you,
if it wasn't if these energy beings, these spirits wanted
to say to me, you know, when you're a clergyman,
you should be talking about these things. It's only in
the last couple of weeks I've been thinking that, But
now it's happening and I am talking about them. You know,
it's not although the Bible and other scriptures don't mention

(44:08):
these things, do I find it a threat in my faith?
Of course I don't. You know, these things are far
too sketchy, you know, compared to a metaphysical system which
has lasted thousands of years.

Speaker 4 (44:19):
Now.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Of course I don't, but I do find it, you know,
like like, you know, what are religions anyway? You know,
fingers pointing at the moon. You know, they're not these mysterious,
numinous realities themselves, but they're pointing to it. And it
was almost like these energy beings, these spirits were saying,
you know, when you're in those positions, you know, when
you're in that position, talk about these things because that's

(44:40):
what you're meant to be doing. Don't forget. If I
was a shaman in Central Asia, a part of the
world I'm deeply in love with, they would be absolutely
nothing unusual talking about these incidents, these phenomena. It's only
in this part of the world where, for reasons best
known to the powers that be in the various churches
that they really don't want these things discussed. It not
the question of, you know, can we smuggle it in

(45:02):
or can we drag people into thinking it. I can
tell everybody from my experience, they preferred nobody talked about it.
You know, it's upsetting the apple cup. I can't see why.
But you know, the only people I can think of
recently to come out come again to the supernatural, the supernaturalists,
and the paranormal closet were people like the great evangelical
thinker Chuck Messler, a remarkable human being who openly talks

(45:25):
about UFOs, the fourth dimension, interactions with these beings and
what does it mean. My personal friend, the Reverend Jim
will Helmson, who is another right wing evangelical. You know,
so it's not true. Churchmen never agree if they're across
the spectrum moment. I'm a nice, cuddly Catholic Liberal. I
count him as a very close friend of mine who
wrote a book called Beyond Science Fiction where he was

(45:47):
a serial experiencer as a youth, and in his I
mean not speaking for somebody else. You need to have
anyone you've shown it, not speaking for somebody else. It
was when he started praying these phenomenous and years later.
Of course he has a ministry in Roswell, So you
know there are weird synchronisms at work in all of this.

(46:08):
But yeah, ultimately these are mysteries pointing at an even
greater mystery.

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(47:04):
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coffee oozing high strangeness. So what you're waiting for? Wake
up to the strange? Do you think these experiences have

(47:29):
kind of pushed you in a direction and you know
your position where you are now?

Speaker 5 (47:34):
No.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
I think if you feel the call to vocation, it
has to be from you personally. You know, it's the
way the ultimately absolute is interacting with you personally, the
way the Christ energy is interacting with you. It can't
be from anything else. I think, certainly these phenomena open
the mind, They open the minds of those who go
through them. But no, I mean for years, you know,

(47:55):
I didn't talk much about them for the very simple
reason there are only twenty four I was in the day,
as I keep saying, clergy are extremely busy people, and
I tend to be. I've become a well known, reasonably
well known LGBTQI plus activist, so most of the time
I'm sort of chained to barricades of a very different type.
You're knocking policemen's helmets off. Can you do that anymore?

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (48:19):
You know, hell no, we won't go and all that
seventies stuff, because you know, I preach the social gospel.
I'm trying to do ridiculous things like get some social
justice back into the church and society generally. So that's
been my central thrust. And if you put that, you know,
on top of the fact that there's a busy ministry
to maintain. Plus I write poetry, you know, plus I

(48:41):
perform it, that really takes most of the out of
the day. Certainly, what it did do, I think was
give me a wry smile regarding the ideologically skeptical. Not
only did it allow me to see more clearly that
there is no state of evidence. What's however that would
convince them because they don't want to be convinced. They've

(49:03):
taken a different world view upond themselves. You know, not
absolutely everybody. I mean, you know, there are people, there
are scholars, amongst the disbelievers as well, and I think
they're open to arguments and discussions. I just noticed that's
not the direction the so called skeptics are going in
in the minute. I mean, it's a rival ideology, almost
like the universities, you know. I mean, I'm honored to
have three degrees, but I did notice during my time

(49:26):
at university that they too were changing. And you know,
now there's a credo which is, you know, materialism, practical materialism,
and there's a priesthood the lecturers who defend that as
the final point of reference to which nothing else can
really be added, reductive materialism. And okay, if that's what
you want to do, that's fine by me. But don't

(49:46):
say you're still searching for the truth, because you're not,
because there's now an ideology in place, and certainly a
lot of the skeptics i've heard nowadays simply well, you know,
if an angel was stood in front of them and
they themselves were glowing with light, they still wouldn't be
able to see what was happening. But that's an ideological stance,
that's not an open minded stance. And you know, good

(50:07):
on you if that's what you want. But maybe that's
not an accurate description of the world. I mean, I
notice in the skeptical camps, the camps of skepticism that
basically that's entrenching now, but you know that's not scientific discovery,
and it may give you, you know, if your whole
if you're sticking rigidly to reductive materialism as the only
explanatory mechanism for us as human beings and our understanding

(50:30):
of nature's human beings, well, yes, you've got a reasonably
accurate view of most of our experience, but certainly not
all of it. And it's accurate only in the sense
that it's shallow and it's narrow. So what you've actually
done is refused to look at all of the other
stuff that can say actually, maybe it's not that. So
there's nearly a choice nowadays between a very narrow bandwidth,

(50:55):
you know, which people will look at, which is clear
but really doesn't describe us human beings and all the
type of continuum we live in, or there's the wider
bandwidth when you're open to these experiences and it's less messy,
you know, it's less convenient, it's much more messy, it's
much more confusing. You won't get answers, or at least
the sorts of answers that can be clean cut and

(51:17):
you know, pinned down. But that's a more accurate view
of life, and it's a more accurate view of our
anthropology as human beings. So it saddens me that that's happening.
But as I say, these encounters have given me a
ry smile and the ability to see when someone is
opposing these phenomena for the simple reason that they just
don't want to believe it happens.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
Your dark experience was interesting, Oh gosh, yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
I mean, do I have a many kind worldview? No,
I'm a Catholic. I do think there is a struggle
in the spiritual realms, because scripture tells me so. And
also that was sort of, I don't know, some sort
of weird verification of that. You know, if all this

(52:01):
light is happening and manifesting in somebody's life, I suppose
there must be an intrusion by the other side, as
it were. You know, I tend to have a view,
an odd view, I mean, right, okay, what have all
these experiences done for me? They've given me a strange
view of life, that this world is something like a
no man's land. This tiny world, this beautiful jewel in

(52:26):
the hand of the creator, is something like a no
man's land between much between two much bigger and much
more powerful and much more removed realms, kingdoms, whatever. You know,
We're caught between two vast spheres, two vast worlds that
we really don't understand, and it will take all of

(52:46):
our evolution to be able to get to grips with
one of which is the world of light, and the
other of which is the world of darkness. Now, of
course this is hardly original from me. I mean, Dennis
Wheatley a man I admire. You know, people they always
remember the occult novels, which is not actually what he
was doing all the time. You know, he was so posh,
you know, I bet he wrote more on wine tasting

(53:08):
that he actually did on the supernatural, you know. I mean,
the man was involved in politics and espionage stories and
they didn't catch on. So everybody holds it on the
sort of stuff which I don't think pleased him. I mean,
I have friends who knew people that knew him, you know,
one of those weird things. And I more certainly wasn't
particularly happy with that. But you know, a Zoroastrianism, which

(53:31):
of course is one of the streams in the Desert religions.
You know, the original prophet Zoroaster or Zarathustra, who wrote
a book called the Agathas, which is arguably the world's
first holy book. It's a response to the Bronze Age
warriors from India attacking what would later be Persia and

(53:52):
him basically saying, you know, because they've suddenly got metal
weapons the first time in human history that we're aware of,
you know. And he's saying basically in this book. I
mean that when I first came across the Agathers and
started to read it, I had to put it down.
It was nearly like reading a modern mind talking about
modern issues. I mean, not talking about you know, specific

(54:13):
moral issues, but the outlook, the outlook of good, bad, right, wrong? Yes, no,
like darkness. It was there, and I put it down.
I didn't read it again for years because it was
just too undermining. And oh my god, how old is
that book. But he's the man that comes along and says, look,
you know, what you claim to worship must be bad,
because look at the mayhem and carnage you're bringing into

(54:34):
the world. So he talks about Ahura Mazda, the Prince
of Light, and Angra Manu, the Prince of Darkness. I mean,
it's not an eternal battle. People get that wrong. When
the created world comes into being, then it's a continual
battle between those two principles, those two powers, until the

(54:55):
end of time. But then those principles separate forever and
they never interact anymore. So, of course, that means I
suppose in our modern vocabulary the end of the earth,
you know, when the earth is no longer here. Certainly
it's in Zoroastrianism, it's in the Three Great Desert faiths Judaism.

(55:16):
People tend to underplay the fact. Without Judaism you don't
get Christianity and also Islam. I mean, we're all brothers,
we're all cousins, we're all family, and that way of
thinking runs through the Three Great Desert religions as well.
So you know, I'm not saying anything that's not in
any of the scriptures of the Great faiths that come

(55:37):
from the Desert. I you know, I mean, at the moment,
I'm actually living in a haunted house. I'm living at
my brother's place. There's a long story behind that, and
the amount of psychic activity going on here is unbelievable.
But that's a different issue. I supposed. Yeah, you know,
there are negative entities that are positive entities, And the
idea in the desert religions is you make a choice.

(55:58):
You know, why are you here. You're here to make
a choice between the light and the darkness. In the light,
you know, things thrive, they expand, they evolve, they become
much more deeply what they were always designed to be,
whereas in the realms of darkness, things wither and they die,
and there's little apart from servitude towards those powers and

(56:21):
principalities that live therein you know. So yeah, I wouldn't. Yeah,
there's nothing new for a clergyman to talk about those things.
But certainly I suppose I feel very honored that the
dark hasn't happened on extra pres need of this evening.
The dark hasn't intruded into my experience too many times,
and it's always been for me much more of a

(56:43):
you know, you've got certain experiences, you know, don't pull back,
and you know when the occasion arises to talk about them.
So I suppose that was one of the reasons we
got in touch with your good self and this show.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
And you're also a speaker on the Nephelene.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Oh that bloody conference. Right, I have the honor to
be the founding producer for the Nepheline Anthropology Conference. Right.
What have all these powers done? They've eventually led to
this conference. I first came up with the idea in
twenty thirteen or thereabouts. My dear friend, the Estonian author
of Vladimir Viedeman, thought that we hadn't put any projects on.

(57:22):
I mean, I've directed and produced nine well received a
major theatrical projects plays, I've done nine, but you know,
there was nothing happening at that particular time. So he
thought we could do something avant garde and amazing different
views of human history, which in those days was groundbreak.
I mean, we would have been the first, you know,
if we'd gone ahead with it fell apart. I remember

(57:46):
saying to Jim, who's a lifelong friend of mine, you know,
we're ordering tickets, we've ordered flights. You'll be staying at
such and such accommodation. This will be incredible fun, and
him saying to me something ominous like, don't like being discussed.
They don't like being talked about. Be careful and me thinking,
but not saying to him because he's got an inmates.

(58:06):
You know, I'll shut up Jim in all this evangelical gobbledygoop.
Within two weeks the entire project and collapsed. The bank
for reasons best known to itself, withdrew our modest credit line.
It never gave an explanation, and of course that meant
nothing could go ahead because nothing could be paid for.
I went down and had a round with the business
manager at the local branch who assured me it would

(58:29):
all be put back into place on time, and it wasn't.
So never trust a bank, So the whole thing collapsed
around us. You know, our ears. Jim has the sort
of rather I don't know, for me, it's a bit
too clinical and it's a bit too tidy view that.
You know, the nephelene, what people call demons nowadays, are
actually the nephelene, which i'll explain a bit more in

(58:51):
a minute. I suppose, so that fell apart, and it
was basically people talking me into reviving the idea last year.
So it was during one of the lockdowns that we
had a trial run we put on a completely virtual
nepotive anthropology conference Part one. They've got a very good turnout,
a glittering panel. We're forming a panel of speakers. So

(59:13):
all I do is produce, you know, I deliver a
lecture at the beginning to set the scene of what
we're doing. We have a wide range of views, you know,
some have supernaturalist views, some have very anthropological views. I mean,
certainly Vladimir Viedaman was involved in Moscow State University back
during the days of the Cold War, was talking about

(59:36):
different types of human being. At the beginning of time,
nobody was talking about it. Then the Americans were poo
pooing that, you know, there are very sizeable human beings,
there are tiny human beings. They're all human and they
believed at that time. Moscow State believed at that time
that they had evidence for that. None of it came
over here because it was the Cold War and both
sides wouldn't pay for funding usually. Vladimir Viedaman was a

(59:59):
part of all of that. So we have actually quite
solid scholarship looking at evidence and artifacts for different types
of human beings, with that side of it, with the
paranormal side of it, with the UFO side of it
with the supernaturalist side of it, and as I say,
we're forming a permanent panel. The trial run was very successful.
We held the second interactive hybrid legs with other words.

(01:00:19):
There were people that could follow us online and there
were people that actually turned up to our actual first
physical staging at the Royal Asiatic Society. I have the
honor of being a fellow there. So they did us proud,
endless copies and biscuits all day. They did us proud.
And so that's I suppose two events last year. We're
also holding our thirty event, which for me will be

(01:00:41):
the first real one because you know, we've tried and
tested all of the problems, all of the stops, and
they now we know what works now what doesn't work now?
This coming October the twenty ninth and the thirtieth at
David Gain College in London, and we've got really, you know,
a group of paralleled experts, all of which are sharing

(01:01:02):
their own research and their own knowledge into this subject.
You know, with the view of collaboration, not point scoring.
What does it all mean? Now? I confess that's my idea.
What are the nepheline for me? They're a biblical mystery.
To go further than that, I think you need to
be very brave. Jim goes a lot further than that,
but you know, it goes back to scripture, the Gospels,

(01:01:25):
where the apostles ask our Good Lord, how do we
know that the end will arrive? You know what will
be the science? And he does say, our Good Lord
says something very odd, as in the days of Noah. Well,
that's actually a very strange thing. If you look back
to what Genesis says about the days of Noah, if
you go back to Genesis six in the Bible, there

(01:01:46):
are places you can find upos in the Bible. I
do not agree with them on danikin that it's every
single unusual description. The Bible is not a badly written
history book, and it's not a third rate technical manual.
Religious books talk about religion, they talk about spirituality, the
inner journey. They do not talk about those other things.
Those other things crop up sometimes, but that's not the

(01:02:07):
central thrust of those of those types of books. Therefore,
when with Respectivondanik, and when he's talking about Ezekiel's wheels
within wheels, that simply isn't what the text is talking about,
and there are commentaries on those texts that were actually
written by the rabbis at the time, so you know,
everyone has a fair idea what they're talking about. That's
not to say there are no places in scripture which

(01:02:28):
I think are clearly to do with you those Most
of the outbursts of the uncanny in scripture are supernatural,
not paranormal, And therefore this is one of those weird
texts that ticks every box. It begins with those who
fly above, you know what on earth is that? You know, hip,

(01:02:50):
there are an angelic group of some sort who descend
to the earth and they want an un something forbidden.
They want relations carnal and otherwise with the daughters of men.
So I'm not you know, you're already in the realms
of mystery, in your realms of metaphors, so it's difficult

(01:03:11):
for me to go much further. But certainly the offspring
of this forbidden union of the Nephelene and the Nethilene
is seen as sometimes very beautiful, sometimes hideously ugly, sometimes
like giants that are the enemies of the human race,
and they want nothing but our destruction, and they want basically,

(01:03:32):
I mean they eat, assuming they are meant to be
preserved in the legends of giantism across the world, every
culture speaks of giants. Theosophy speaks of giants. I think
Madame Lavatski does an incredibly interesting job, you know, anthroposophy,
rudel Steiner, they allude to it, very very interesting. But
you know, so you're looking at the supernatural beings that
cause a paranormal phenomena. Certainly Jim would say that, you know,

(01:03:56):
the biblical flood is linked in to basically a pollution
in the human gene pool, and it was designed to
rid the human race of that particular problem. I mean,
I don't want to go down that route myself because
it raises too many other issues, but certainly that is
a view, you know. But certainly the nephiding also turn
up after the flood as well, which is another problem

(01:04:18):
with it. All of the nephiding that died during the flood,
of course, became disembodied spirits, which Jim would say, which
the evangelical brothers and sisters tend to say, are what
we would call demons nowadays. You know, an angel is
an angel, an incredibly powerful being, and those that fly

(01:04:38):
above are now imprisoned, according to some into Tarus, which
is as far below Hades as the Earth is above
below Heaven. Terrifying by the sound of it. But you
don't lose angelic attributes until judgment. If you're looking at
all these things properly, they haven't been judged yet, whereas
the Nephlene have been judged. And you know, it's the

(01:05:00):
cycle of these demonic spirits trying to come back into
our history and pollute it yet again, and then being
exercised by the church or the culture in question, the
shame and the local holy man being exercised and expelled
back into the realms of darkness, into the realms of Hades.
Are always looking to try and come back and disturb

(01:05:21):
the people around, you know, distill of the people involving
that summoning and around them. So what we're trying to
do in the Nepolie Anthropology Conference is get together every
single view, including people that don't go for any of it,
to talk together, to interact with our audiences. Can we
shed any further light on this absolutely fascinating experience. Yes

(01:05:42):
we can, and we're just about to do it, not
in person with our guests, with our audiences, but also
as an online newsletter after October. So right, heavens above
and he just thought of that, we're all these weird
things in the past propenning me in this direction. Maybe
they were, Nick, who.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
Knows wonderful do is? I'll put links to the conference
in the show notes below.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Thank you, Nick. The main reason I brought this conference
back was because we needed to think of some fundraisers,
and I wasn't expecting it to take up in the
way it has. I mean, certainly we were also working
with the Zohar Entertainment Group. I mean they recently put
on one of their channel's Ancient Secret Discoveries some of
our speakers. I mean they called the selection of speakers

(01:06:25):
that they chose Nefhflieven, Giants, Holy Earth and Missing Holy Relics.
I mean, to date it has four seven eight K views,
you know, so it's a subject that interests people. And
as I say, we didn't tell them what speakers from
our panel they should take. You know, we sent them
some footage actually from the online version of the conference

(01:06:47):
last April, and they made their own choices. There certainly
proved to be an interest. I mean, my view is
it will continue to be a fundraiser, but because we
need that income as a church, we're struggling to survive.
We're seriously on the roads. But also we've touched a nerve.
You know, history is not what it seems to be.
And that's not to disparage mainline historians. I think overall

(01:07:08):
are doing an absolutely great job with the documents. I mean,
you know, can you prove somebody existed five years previously,
let alone a thousand years previously. So you know, I
think they're doing a great job with circumstantial evidence documents.
You know, you start going back to a certain point
and right, how many papyrus papyary are there to say anything?
So I'm not having a go at academic historians. I

(01:07:29):
do think they need to be a little wider in
their views, and I think most of them think that
as well. But you also, we then have to be
realistic about government funding. You know, is any government start
going to start giving money for this type of research,
It's hardly unlikely. You know, how would they benefit directly
in the modern world. So we're keeping going in. I
think what we're going to do is actually turn this

(01:07:51):
into an academic panel. So next year which I'm already
beginning to think of. We'll have an expanded panel again.
We want more speakers, will also one. You know, I
want to build a community, not simply a panel of
experts whereby we're all looking together at some of those
fascinating stories in human history. And yet again, you know
my attitude to the balls of light. What does it

(01:08:12):
all mean? And can we get further into this mystery?
Will it? Does it? And should it interact with us?
And I think we're on the verge of actually making
this quite a successful little undertaking.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
That's wonderful.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Okay, it's been a blast. Thank you for having me
on your show pastor part.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
I really appreciate you coming on sharing that for our listeners.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Well, I hope you you've had, you know, an interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
Time, wonderful You take care Nick, Okay, you take care
of yourself, keep in contact.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Thanks Nick, all right, and wonderful evening.

Speaker 3 (01:08:40):
Yeah, and you don't work too hard from your congregation tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
Well, you know, I think if you become clergy, you
give up the idea of weekends too much time to
yourself that I wouldn't have it any other week So anyway,
God bless you, God, bless you.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
Take care of yourself now, talk to you soon. Oh
that is all for this week. Keep up dating Dan
connected with the show on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. And
if you have an encounter you'd like to share on
the podcast, you can email me at UFO Chronicles at
gmail dot com or reach out to me via the
contact page on my website at UFO Chronicles podcast dot com.

(01:09:17):
A big fan with you Francesca and Pastor David Parry
for sharing tonight, and thank you all for listening. I
will be back next week. Till then, stay saved and
keep watching the Skies. Goodbye,

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