Ep.359 The Brockport Encounter

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You'll be away five seventeen. Do you want to report
a UFO hanging in? We don't want to report every
thirty one. Do you wish to report a.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
UFO over hey, we want to one.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Of those data areas thirty one. Do you wish to
find a report of any kind of it? I wouldn't
know what kind of reports clouds, time areas thirty one
me neither there were self if it was anybody h
above us to pass us, Like thirty seconds.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Ago, we were sending one of golf negative.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Okay, OFFI the UFO.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, it's murder ten nine o'clock.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yes, I'll just passed over. I got. I don't know
what it was, but it's from at least to three
thousand feet above us. See, I passed right over the
top of us.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Ninety one one.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
You just called both to be be four. They're after
staying the airplanes.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
He is to God on an unidentified object every liberty
or call or calm on an unidentified flying object.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
A Welcome to UFO Chronicles a place where people share
their experiences of the strange and unexplained. If you've had
an encounter, I would like to be on the show.
You can email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com.

(01:47):
Hello everyone, and welcome to the show. How are you
all doing. I'm Nick Hunter and this is the UFO
Chronicles podcast. This episode, our guest Len Philpo comes to
us from Cana. His story takes us back to Brockport,
New York. In the summer of nineteen sixty seven. Sixteen
year old Len watched a huge, orange, flame covered craft

(02:11):
drift a low across the sky, followed by a small
white orb weaving behind it. He wasn't the only witness.
Police officers, university staff, and other locals said they saw
the same thing that night. A newspaper report even mentioned
a trailing white light, confirming what Len and his friend saw.
The sighting stayed with him years later, after working in politics,

(02:34):
in film and Silicon Valley. He still remembers its quiet,
intentional presence. More strange events followed a portergeist encounter, powerful
coincidences than other moments that widened his view of reality.
A vivid case from the nineteen sixties New York flat
Len is up next. But first, if you enjoy the

(02:54):
show and you'd like to help support the podcast on Patreon,
you can do this for as little as one dollar
a month. Head on over to patreon dot com Forward
slash Ufo Chronicles podcast. You can also find a link
in the description of this episode. Any help is very
much appreciated. Now on with the show. Hello, Len, Welcome

(03:28):
to the podcast.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Thank you very much. I'm delighted to be here.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
You were more than welcome. Thank you for joining us today.
It's early for you, Len, and you're coming to us
from California.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yes, Nick, and in northern California, it's dark outside, but
I have a warm cup of coffee and I've enjoyed
our chat so far, which has also been warm, and
looking forward to what comes next.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Wonderful stuff. Okay, Len, Now, Len, you've got an experience
to share for us. Would did you start at the
beginning please? Sir?

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, sure, so I did see what is termed as
an unidentified flying object. But I'd like to just let
people know a little bit of background context so that
you might the listener might get a better idea of
how it impacted me. And I do want to commend

(04:25):
you Nick for your show and for your willingness to
let experiencers come on and take the time to explain
their story. There are a lot of researchers and podcasters
and experts who say that what we really need to
be doing is finding more information about this phenomenon by

(04:51):
investigations and interviewing experiencers. And then I don't necessarily see
a lot of that activity going on. You find it
at your show. So I'm very pleased to be on
and I commend you for your format. So I saw
the UFO when I was sixteen years old. It was
nineteen sixty seven in a small village in upstate in

(05:17):
western New York by the name of Brockport. Brockport is
between Rochester and Buffalo, and there's a small State University
of New York College at Brockport, and my dad taught
economics there for years, and so that's where we grew up.

(05:37):
But before nineteen sixty seven when I saw it, I
had the habit of reading stories and articles in Reader's Digest.
Some of your listeners are going to remember Reader's Digest.
It was a compilation of magazine articles that had been

(06:03):
that had appeared elsewhere in different magazines. It could be Look, Life, Esquire.
They would be in all kinds of different magazines, and
they bought the rights to them. They condensed the articles
so that they weren't overly long. There were a few
pages each and you could get the essence of what
the articles were about by reading readers digest. And as

(06:30):
I was probably in seventh grade, maybe eighth grade, it
was before my freshman before high school, I'm sure, I
used to read that. I'd keep some of those by
my bed, and as I was going to sleep, i'd
read one, or i'd read four, I'd read seven until
I got sleepy, and i'd put it aside and go

(06:50):
to sleep. This one evening, I read an article really
for the first time, taking seriously UFOs flying saucers, And
there was some account of witnesses who experienced a UFO,
and they they spoke with such clarity, they spoke with

(07:11):
such honesty, and the writer of this article was able
to convey a credibility and a truthfulness that really hit me.
It hit me not like a fact that is recognized intellectually,

(07:33):
but more like a truth that is understood holistically. I
remember the feeling I just paused in my bed after
reading this article, and I thought, yes, of course, this
makes complete sense. Why is everyone everyone telling us this

(07:57):
can't exist when it's so obvious that it probably does well.
That set me on a hobby of sorts. I began
to research UFOs. I looked at magazines, I cut articles
out of newspapers. I kept a notebook filled with books

(08:22):
and articles and anything I could get about UFOs. Now,
this is nineteen this is mid nineteen sixties, so there
was no Internet, and there wasn't the ubiquity of UFO
material around as there is now, so it was more sporadic.
I was doing that in between you know, school and

(08:45):
athletics and boy scouts and girls and you know all
the rest and goofing off and all the rest of
the stuff. Anyway, I became known amongst my friends as
kind of the ufone Nott, and I proudly wore that
badge because I was up to speed on what was
going on. I knew what Project Blue Book was. I

(09:08):
knew where the swamp gas quote had come from. I
could tell friends about it. And remember in that era
that we were really racing to battle with the Russians
about Sputnik. I remember clearly my dad took us out

(09:29):
into the backyard to view Sputnik when it went overhead
and the entire school system changed and there was a
focus on mathematics and science, and there were plenty of
sci fi movies. The day the Earth stood Still and flying,
there was a zeitgeist of flying saucers in the air.

(09:51):
So I enjoyed knowing something about what was going on,
and I became the ufone nut amongst my group. Did
I know they were real? Did I did I think
that they were real? I had no idea. I didn't
claim that this was true. I just, you know, claimed

(10:14):
that this was an area of research that people were
involved in. So this goes on for a few years
and I'm in high school and a friend of mine,
Tim Hurley, who has allowed me I've interviewed him extensively,
and he's allowed me to use his name. Tim Hurley

(10:34):
called me one night when I was in the summer
of when I was going into when I was sixteen,
and he said, lend, there's strange activity in the sky
up here. Do you want to come up and take
a look. So I said sure, So I went up
and we we looked around the clouds in the sky.

(10:55):
Tim said that when he was in his room he
saw a fly lashes of green outside, and he felt
like something was watching him and he was serious, and
so we went outside. We saw, you know, billowing cumulus
clouds coming in off of either Lake Erie or Lake Ontario,

(11:18):
which are nearby Brockport and where all the snow comes
from in the wintertime. And we really didn't see anything,
but I did see in one cloud there were just
slight faint flashes of like an orange pink kind of
color that really shouldn't be there, but it was. It
happened so fast, and I wasn't always focused right on

(11:41):
that cloud. That couldn't tell, but it was odd, it
was different. And I had spent a lot of time
in boy Scouts outside sleeping under the stars, camping, canoeing,
do you name it, and so I was familiar with
what is normal outside scenario is. We thought we were

(12:03):
the hardy boys, right, we were detectives, and we're going
to get to the bottom of this. So playfully, we
put together a pinhole camera. I think we took a
shoe box, put a hole in it, taped a piece
of film to the back, set it up on the
top of his roof, the roof of his garage, and
that was it, and then we went on to other things.

(12:24):
Nothing ever became of that I don't think we even
checked the camera the next day. The next day he
called and said, do you want to sleep over? I
said sure, and I took I took my dad's sleeping bag,
which was a World War two beautiful warm down the

(12:49):
sleeping bag, put it over my shoulder, and as I
was leaving the house, my father said who was in
the living room? He said, where are you going? And
I said, I'm going up to Hurlies to look for
flying saucers. And I walked out the door. Screen door slammed,
and I got on my bike and rode off to

(13:10):
go up to Hurlees. Now I never had said that before.
I knew, I mean, my parents probably you know, knew
I was interested in flying saucers. They never really had
talked with them about it, you know, But I had
done from my notebook. I had done school reports and
book reports and term papers and stuff like that. I

(13:32):
utilized this background to try to do some school projects.
So I'm sure they knew. But I'd never said I'm
going to look for flying saucers. And it was kind
of said, you know, a little bit facetiously, tongue in cheek.
It wasn't like we were going on a UFO investigation
of any kind. We weren't doing a CE five kind

(13:54):
of a thing, nothing like that at all. It was
just playful and animated. And but that's what I said,
I'm going up to Hurley's to look for flying saucers.
That evening. We were there were four of us. It
was myself, Jim Hurley, his brother Joe, and a friend
of the family, Whitey Meserly, and we were sleeping in

(14:19):
the front of Hurley's house in our sleeping bags, and
we were just getting in. It was just about dark,
and one of the guys said, what was that? And
then another guy said, look, And I caught out of
the corner of my eye a beam, like a flash
of light, you know. So there was a beam coming

(14:40):
from higher up and hitting the ground, and everyone was
getting agitated. People were moving fast. What there it is that,
you know? And I'm looking trying to like a like
a like a dog chasing its tail or something. I'm
looking around trying. Well, finally I caught Whitey. Whitey had
a flashlight and they were playing a joke on me.

(15:01):
They were playing, you know, just a playful joke on
the UFO was coming down and fletching flashed us uh
for you know, to get the to get the goods
unlet and I laughed. It was it was funny. It
was just a playful prank. I wasn't not offended. It

(15:21):
was all just part of the growing up times, and
and and it was funny. But that's exactly what happened.
Those guys fell asleep. I stayed awake. I have stared
at the stars in the universe. I used to just
stare at the stars and contemplate and try to figure

(15:43):
out what is eternity? How you know, how can there
be an eternity? And those kinds of of questions. And
at about two am, from coming over the garage where
we had planted the ginhole camera the evening before, came

(16:10):
bursting into view a huge orange, flaming fireball, spherical fireball,
probably about the size of the full moon. Bring it
down to about a height of two hundred feet maybe

(16:34):
thirty five yards from us, very very close, and it
came horizontally. I have seen meteorites, this had a horizontal trajectory.
It was moving very very slowly. The flames were coming

(16:57):
from the front and going toward the back. I could
see through the orange red glow that was surrounding the
entire thing. That there was something solid, some kind of
nose cone type solid structure underneath all the flame and

(17:17):
the orange glow, and it could have been acorn shape.
It could have been I've looked, you know, I've done
research over the years. The Keksburg UFO, which is relatively famous.
It comes about as close, I think, to what we
saw as any other signings. Interestingly, there was a little

(17:41):
white star or little white orb about the size of
a star that was following in its trail. It was
erradically moving, as though it would would catch up to
the larger vehicle and then slow down and move to
the right and the left, and it was following in.
It looked to me as though, or I thought at

(18:03):
the time, it looked like, oh my, you know, this
larger ship or craft or whatever it was was in trouble.
I thought it was flaming out. I thought it was
burning possibly crashing, although there was no downward trajectory and
it was just it was gliding. It was just taking

(18:25):
its time, and that this little star was trying to
get back inside it had been left behind or trying
to help somehow. It was almost frantic in its movements. Anyway,
I was just I woke everyone up. Tim really got
a good view of it. I'm over the years, I'm
not sure how well the other guys, through sleep dripped

(18:49):
eyes and weary brains, how well they saw it. But
Tim and I saw it. I was up and I
was standing and looking at it, and I thought, oh,
I have to report this. So I took a turn,
and I was I was headed to the Hurley's front
porch to try to go in and report it, and

(19:09):
I pull I reporting it to and that then this
thought just came over me, No, what are you doing.
You've wanted to see this turn around and enjoy it, behold,
you know, here it is. And so I did that.
I said, I forgot about reporting it and just enjoyed
it and watched, watched it as it just glided away,

(19:32):
minding its own business, not trying to hide, not trying
to get away, not trying to, you know, leave the scene,
just taking its time at two am in the morning.
The feeling I got from this, and I know I
was a teenager, the feeling I got for this, especially

(19:53):
because I had said I'm going to look for flying
Saucer's dad and the guys played the bank on and
all the other stuff. Over the years, you know, where
I have kind of defended the UFO potential proposition. The
feeling I got was almost personal, like they were waving hello,
like they took a detour in their path to show

(20:17):
me that there we are. You know, you're doing a
great job. Len It seemed that they were. It wasn't
really a communication, but that's the feeling I got that
here we are. Take a look dig it, you know.
And now, at the time, I knew as a teenager,
and I knew that if I really thought that this

(20:40):
was like about me, if this was some way that
they were trying to communicate, that would be so egotistically
adolescent that even I rejected that. So I never really
pursued that kind of thinking, although that is exactly what
I thought. I thought they gave me a flyby hello
wave and say keep up the good work. That's what

(21:00):
I thought, although I didn't really communicate that at the
time because when we talked to our friends and other people,
they didn't believe us. You know, it was during that
time of the suppression, the ridicule, the ostraization of people
who reported UFO incidents, so I just kept that to myself.

(21:24):
A couple of Dano may on this story. That summer
I was taking driver education and one of the assignments
for driver education was go through old newspapers and find
clippings of accidents and come to class and say how
these accidents could have been avoided. As I was going
through all our stack of old newspapers, I found an

(21:47):
article in the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle that I had
not yet seen that covered this UFO I saw, and
in it people there were I think seven people in Geneseo,
which is about forty miles away from Brockport, saw the
same thing a little bit after, in the same timeframe

(22:09):
that we saw ours, and they reported the little White
Star following in its trail, and that was the only
newspaper report that announced that. Well, I went and I
showed my dad this article. And I had told my
dad about you know, what I saw, and you know,
he nodded his head and said interesting and all that.

(22:30):
And when I showed him this article which was which
mentioned a little white orb, he read it and he
looked up at me. He says, now, I believe you.
And it never occurred to me that he didn't believe me,
But anyway, that's kind of an interesting thing. Other people
who saw this UFO were there was a vice president

(22:56):
at the State University of New York at Brockport. There
was a whole theater group out in Thatcher, New York.
They had a campus out in Thatcher, New York, about
five miles from Brockport, where a theater group was practicing
late on a theatrical production for the summer, and they
saw it. There were two Brockport police officers who saw

(23:20):
it and reported it, and there were two Monroe County
sheriffs who saw it and reported it. So it was
widely witnessed. It was widely reported by credible people, and
it was amazing to me. What it did for me
was to show me that so many things people had

(23:40):
been telling us the Project Blue Book, science institutions, government,
they were either misinformed or lying to us. And it
really made me question what kind of a society we
were living in where they could be so wrong about
something that I could see with my own two eyes.

(24:04):
And that was fascinating. So we saw our Brockport UFO
at two am on August first, nineteen sixty seven. Four
hours earlier, on July thirty first, at ten pm, there
was a watch guard in Churchville, New York Park in

(24:28):
a park in Churchville, New York. His name was Sidney Zipken.
He reported in the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle that he
saw when he was doing his rounds in the park,
his head lights shined on two small people wearing black,

(24:51):
shiny uniforms who were startled by the lights of his car.
They got into a flying saucer and they took off
right in front of them. That was his report. This
was four hours before we saw our Brockport UFO. Now

(25:16):
at that time, nineteen sixty seven, I'm quite sure Betty
and Barney Hill's interrupted journey. It happened, but there wasn't
a great deal of discussion about abductions or aliens, or landings,
or or Gray's you know, the smaller in stature beings.

(25:36):
That just wasn't part of the conversation. It wasn't around.
And when I read his report, even though I had
had a life changing moment seeing this UFO, you know,
under the situation I did, I didn't believe Zipgin. I
thought this guy's trying to get in on the act.
This guy's just making a mockery of all this. You know,
he said he saw aliens in shiny black uniform. You know,

(25:59):
this is nutty, And of course that's what everyone else
saw too. The newspapers ridiculed and they reported it, and
then they started, you know, to just rip them apart.
He was fired from his job, He led a life
of petty crime. He round up in jail, and he,

(26:20):
to his dying day, from the bits of information I'm
able to piece together, swore that what he saw was
true and what he said was the truth. And as
I look back at all this from you know, I'm
now in retirement and I can focus on some of
these events in my life more carefully. When I look

(26:41):
back at what he said, that is just completely in
line with many of the encounter reports that we get
of grays and beans and UFOs, and it's almost commonplace
in the literature. So it makes me think, know, he

(27:01):
very well could have been telling the truth. But because
it was so outlandish at the time, his story got
mixed up with our story and it turned into a
big circus, press circus, and it just all died. People
just thought we were kind of nuts. Now there was
one organization NICAP, and I think they were a UFO investigating.

(27:26):
I think it was National Investigations Committee for Aerial Phenomenon NICAP.
They investigated both zip can and the Brockport UFO. They
said the Brockport UFO because of the number of witnesses,
the length of time, all of its characteristics, that's a

(27:48):
credible UFO. Sighting the zip in thing, they could not
say that it was credible. In fact, they did not
say it was credible, and it was a bridge to
a for them, I guess. And that's kind of how
that that's kind of how the news just died away.
But there is more news on this because as I

(28:10):
have over the last couple of years begun to tell
my story. I told it to Diana Pasolka who wrote
about it in Encounters in chapter nine of Encounters, and
I have told my story a bit more in Facebook
groups about Brockport and hometown stuff. People have come forward

(28:35):
and said I saw it land or my grand you know,
my father's sister saw it, and they remember that time
and there are many corroborating witnesses. And then one other person,
a friend of mine, Patty Goodnow, has come forward and
said that she experienced a yellow or an orange sphere

(28:58):
UFO with three other people. They were in a car
in Holly, New York. About she says school started, so
it would have been probably a few weeks to maybe
a month after the one we saw. Holly, New York
is five miles away from Brockport, so it's right in

(29:18):
the same area. It had many of this Their siting
contained many of the same characteristics as the one we saw,
and I'm continuing to research that and hopefully we'll share
more details as I learned them. But it builds credibility
to this flap that was going on, and that's basically

(29:42):
the UFO story. Nick.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
Absolutely fascinating. Lene, thank you for sharing all that.

Speaker 4 (29:48):
You bet you don't always know you're in a cult.

Speaker 5 (29:59):
Not At first it feels like truth, like purpose, like home.
Then the rules change, the world gets smaller, and obedience
becomes survival. Hidden Cults is the podcast that takes you
inside the world's most disturbing belief systems. From the mass
suicide of Heaven's Gate to the gas attacks of om
Shinrikio to the fiery siege in Waco, Texas. We follow

(30:20):
the rise the ruin and the survivors left behind.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
But the danger isn't over.

Speaker 5 (30:26):
We track cults still active in cities, villages, and online
spaces around the world, spanning continence, languages, and belief systems.
You'll hear real stories from those who escaped, and if
you've lived through something like this, we want to hear
from you too. Hidden cults new episodes every week wherever
you get your podcasts.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
It's an interest in why isn't it the Western New
York UFO flap? So many witnesses, yet so many civilians
and there was law enforcement.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah, there were four officers who were on duty at
the time. Now nineteen sixty seven was there were some
other things going on. I believe nineteen sixty seven was
the Malmstrom Air Force based nuclear missile shutdown incident in

(31:24):
North Dakota or South Dakota. One of the Dakotas, Robert Salas,
has written about it and he was there, witnessed it,
and he gives testimony to it. And that was also
a large orange the unidentified flying object that was over
the base at the time of the shutdown was a
large orange sphere, which is interesting. And then there was

(31:47):
SAgs Harbor in Canada a USO incident in nineteen sixty seven.
There was just a lot of activity. But again, it
just it wasn't it wasn't part of the It was
really difficult to get a message out. Now. Very few
people believed you, and they were quick to hand you

(32:08):
a tinfoil hat and say move along. You know, we're
not interested in hearing this stuff. So I've really been
pleased to see the change in attitudes now. Over the years,
I have not told this story. I've worked in politics
and government. I worked for you know, I've had dinner

(32:31):
in the White House. I've worked on Capitol Hill, I've
worked making movies. I've worked advising C suite executives on
communications in Silicon Valley. For a number of years, I
didn't talk about any of this stuff because you know,
there's still the skepticism that has gone along with it

(32:52):
over the years. But once I retired and I started
to look at this incident more closely and look at
some other anomalous activities that have occurred in my life.
I've had the time to do it. I've had the
freedom to do it. The story gets, you know, kind

(33:12):
of deeper and deeper. One of the things that amazed
me to highlight the difference between now and then. I
went to probably five years ago, maybe after I'd retired
and I was homewriting. I went to my first UFO conference.
And I was always afraid to go to a UFO conference.

(33:34):
Why because I figured they were filled with nuts, tinfoil hats,
and you know, all kinds of stuff. I just had
a general dread to go see the people there. What
I found instead were serious researchers, serious people trying to
understand their experiences, trying to learn more in a group

(33:58):
environment academics and journalists and scientists, and it was really
an eye opener for me. Outside in the lobby from
one of the talks, I was just taking a break
from one of the talks. I was standing talking with
someone and somehow the conversation came up that that, yeah,

(34:18):
I had had a UFO experience, and I was just
saying in hush tones. I wasn't even speaking loudly, and
I mentioned that, yeah, it's funny, I said, I was
going to look for flying saucers that night. As soon
as I said that, a camera with lights was pointed
at me. I was in the middle of this camera

(34:40):
process people started gathering around, and I was the center
of attention just for saying that. They said, oh, you're
an experiencer, tell us about and I backed out of
the corner. I mean, I backed out of the light.
I said, no, no, no, I really don't want to talk
about it. You know, at this point what was amazing
was to me I had been rejected for you know,

(35:05):
for forty years, you know, from talking about this people
I'm sure in my own family, close friends just didn't
want to hear it. I was rejected. And then here
I was, at this time in the evolution of the
UFO information, and I'm being people that want to hear

(35:30):
what I have to say. It was a tremendous kind
of leap forward in understanding and appreciation and acceptance of
this subject. And it was very striking for me. So
now I've begun to tell more about my experience.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
Absolutely. I mean, that's the way it's been for so long,
lean you know. I remember when I was younger and
I'd try to discuss UFOs or anything a bit strange,
I'd always get the Twilight Zone. Especially one of my brothers,
smel Grad, would always wistle the Twilight Zone theme, right
and then years later in the nineties and that became
the X files. People started whistling the X files. But

(36:08):
the opinion I think has changed a little bit. Today
it is getting a lot better. He's still got people
out there, which I still think it's still the stuff
of fantasy. But the important thing is, you know, the
more people do come forward, more information we got out there,
and the more it becomes accepted.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
I think that's right, and that is one of the
reasons I want to talk about it. I think in
a way I owe it to other people to lend
my support and lend my information, and hopefully they'll be
researchers or journalists, or scientists or academics, some people or

(36:44):
even just other experiencers who will maybe find some common
threads and some relief in all of this. I don't
believe we're going to get to the bottom of the mystery.
I hear a lot of talk about disclosure and whatnot,
and there's a push for disclosure and whatnot. I having

(37:07):
worked in the government, worked in both agencies, our departments,
and on Capitol Hill, you know they're very very well
meaning people and in government, and I think there are
many reasons why this kind of information is not going
to is not going to be readily distributed because why

(37:32):
would you. They're national security reasons why it won't be
so I don't know if pushing for disclosure. While it
should be done and the investigations should go on, I
don't think that should necessarily be the whole focus of
the UFO effort. And that's why I like your show

(37:54):
and what you're doing, because you're actually going to experiences
and getting their story and learning what's really going on.
I also find it interesting that our experiences are so different.
It seems almost as though experiences, the sightings or whatever,

(38:15):
are calibrated to our own personal history in some way,
that they're very individualized, that there's not one rule or
one theorem that's going to cover everything. But I'm a
great fan of the poet Alexander Pope's Treatise on Man,

(38:36):
where he says, essentially man is the sole judge of
truth in endless error, hurled, the glory, just and riddle
of the world. I really think we're I think this
is just part of the human experience. Is the riddle
part of it? You know? I don't know as if
we're ever going to figure it all out one other thing.

(38:59):
I just like, say, Nick, and I keep saying one
other thing. You got me going. You know, it's my
morning coffee here. The sun hasn't risen yet, but I'm
jacked up on this coffee. You know. There are some
researchers who say that a UFO experience can open one

(39:20):
up to a series of other kind of anomalous experiences, paranormal, psychic,
you name it. I know that Jeff Kreipel in Rice
University has written on that subject, and there are many others.

(39:41):
So some researchers see that pattern in their research. That
seems to be potentially something that has happened to me
because after the UFO experience, I've had a number of
other anomalousts experiences in my life that have helped to

(40:05):
shape where I am and where I've gone and shaped
my life today. And that's that's a longer kind of story.
And I don't know if I mean, maybe I would
have had these experiences anyway if there wasn't a UFO.

(40:26):
I can't say that the UFO was an instigating factor,
was the cause of these things. But it is interesting
to me and I'm writing about it, that the UFO
incident was kind of an inciting incident, and there are
other things that have happened, and it's all nick around

(40:48):
a greater expanding consciousness. It like opened my world dramatically
to other possibilities, and slowly it's moved me away from
a purely Western kind of materialistic point of view to
a more idealistic, even dare I say, spiritual path, And

(41:16):
that may have been exactly what I needed to have
when all accounts are given, that may be exactly the
thing that has made it possible the other one other
thing along these lines. And Matthew Salton, the filmmaker, has
recently released a eleven minute animated documentary on his search

(41:42):
for understanding UFOs and some of his early experiences and
his parents' views on it and what he's learned why
he's fascinated with this subject. He talked to me and
featured my story in the Brockport UFO story a great

(42:04):
deal in this film. It was the short of the
week on YouTube. It's available on YouTube. It's entitled Psychedelic
in the Sky. As I recall, he took that from
one of our conversations that he taped, and I said
that that UFO as I look back at it. The

(42:25):
Brockport UFO to me was like a psychedelic in the
sky in that it expanded. I don't know if you
whoever remembers Timothy Leary and all the chat about expanding
our consciousness, well that's exactly what this UFO did to me.
It expanded my consciousness and made me open to other

(42:46):
things that have happened in my life. And it's made
all the difference for me.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
And yeah, absolutely Matthew's bit of animation that he did.
I mean, Matthew reached out to me and me and
and to our listeners. I then got in contact with
Len and if anyone's interesting seeing this wonderful is a
beautifully crafted piece of animation. I will put a link
below in the description, or you can go and watch
it on the website for all the links. Go and

(43:15):
have a look. It is wonderful. Actually, I really enjoyed that.
So a big shout out to Matthew.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Yeah, he did a great lob.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
He did a great job. But hopefully you know he's
going to do some more on the same lines.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Well, I haven't talked talked to him about his plans
on this, but he's if this from what this film
by Matthew explores. It's kind of a view inside his
own reflections and ruminations about this subject. So the things
that he's that he talks about in trying to understand

(43:51):
this leads me to believe that there may be more
to his investigation of the subject matter.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
Yes, yeah, so hopefully you know, we can maybe pulled
that out of him, and we could probably probably do
that and a lot of time, what you'll see is
you'll see someone which is releasing content on others before
going back and then maybe visiting their own experiences. That
is something I see quite a lot. So maybe that's
maybe what he's thinking of doing.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Could be I'm really not sure, but he's certainly an artist.
He did an excellent job on this film, and I
urge people to go take a look at It's called
Psychedelic in the Sky. It's available to the public and
YouTube just after a week and a half now, so
go check it out.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Yeah wonderful. I mean to be honest then, but I
was just compelled literally as soon as he gave me
the link to it, I went and had a look.
I must have watched it by six times.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Wow, it is interesting. After the Ufo, the broadbort Ufo.
I had just in a manner of a few years.
I had a poltergeist experience, a kind of lean the
awakening experience, and an experience with a sort of a

(45:06):
famous Catholic priest who had I had some kind of
visitation with him on the night he died. That's the
Archbishop ful and Jay Sheen, and that's that's another of
the stories that Diana writes about in Encounters. And I've
had others as this goes on. So you know, glad,

(45:27):
I'm I'm retired now so that I can focus on
this stuff and and try to try to communicate it clearly,
because yeah, there there is more under the under the
skies than our than our philosophy reveals.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
Absolutely, But what about other things like synchronicity is have
you ever experienced that in your life?

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Absolutely? Yes, may I tell you one kind of There
were two really that this, but I would like to
share them. Yes, n chrenicities have happened all the time.
One of them was with a buddy of mine. The
poltergeist I experienced was in Tulsa, Oklahoma. We were living

(46:14):
on a what you might call a hippie commune, right,
But we're all working construction and we're making a living.
But you know, we're long haired hippies and we're exploring
different kinds of you know, lifestyles and philosophies and metaphysics
and all kinds of stuff going on. Anyway, the owner

(46:36):
of the construction company for whom we worked invited us
to his house for a great big dinner or Sunday brunch,
and we ate and retired to his living room, where
we began talking about things metaphysical, and at some point

(46:56):
he said, oh, well, you know, we have a ghost
here in the house. And as I've written about it,
I'm pretty sure it was me, but at least I was.
I was thinking to ask this question, but I asked, oh,
does it have a name, and he said something like yeah,
we call him George. As soon as he said the
name George, there were two French doors that were leading

(47:19):
to another room that opened into the living room. They
blew open. They just flew open, as though a tornado
blew them open, and the curtains on them were flying
straight out horizontally, and it was like this show dramatic,
perfectly timed activity. And I looked at that I was utterly.

(47:44):
There was nothing there other than that. Although when I've
tried to explain it, I've explained it like this. The
feeling I had was if you say, you're you're in
a private room and you're reading and you might feel
a presence. You looked up and your wife is in
the doorway looking at you. You kind of felt that

(48:06):
human presence before you observed it. That's the feeling. That
feeling of a human presence was washed through the room.
That's what I experienced. I had just a little bit
of enough clarity of mind to look at some of
the other people and they were just they were like,

(48:27):
just for seconds frozen. They were still looking at Al,
the guy who had mentioned the ghost. They weren't even
looking at that, And I thought, oh, okay, well what's
going on here. We never talked about it. There were
probably ten of us in there, maybe eight of us
in that room. We never really talked about it. But
that wasn't that was common. Things happened and all of that.

(48:51):
But then years later, as I began to take a
look at investigate some of these things, I talked with Al.
Al say, yes, there was a boy who drowned in
a pool in that house across the street in Huddard
Park in Tulsa, and his ex wife and a daughter

(49:12):
confirm these reports that there had been cookies chewed up
and in the middle of the room, and cupboards crashing
and glasses breaking and all kinds of poltergeist activity. And
so I had that information, and unfortunately Al died and
I thought, yeah, but you know, I talked to some
of my buddies who were on the commune with me,

(49:34):
we called it on the farm with me. I talked
to that and they did not remember it. And a
few of them have died, and a few of them
have died after I've talked. I've talked to them. They
just didn't remember it. And I thought, oh my gosh,
that just can't be. This is wild. How am I
going to write about this if I don't have corroborating evidence. Sure,

(49:57):
I've got interviews by the people who lived there and whatnot,
but I don't have another person who was there at
the time who can corroborate it. The very afternoon that
I said, well, I'm just going to have to you know,
I've tried every track. There's no way to track anything down.

(50:18):
These are all dead ends. As far as my friends go,
I give up on this. I'm just going to have
to go with what I have. My phone rang and
a friend of mine, we call him Doc. Doc de Grote,
Albert Michael de Grote gave me a call and he
was filling me in on something. And I think we're
talking about Alframpton or I mentioned I talked with al Frampton,

(50:43):
who was the owner of the of the place we
rented and also the construction company where we worked. And
he said, I remember el, I remember Tulsa and the
farm and the ghost. I go, what repeat that? He said,
I remember the ghosts. I had forgotten that Doc was

(51:03):
there because he left the commune early and I didn't
even count him as one of the possibilities. He called
me on the and mentioned the ghost the very day
that I gave up on trying to track down my
friends and to me, and then we talked about it.
I've interviewed him. I have him on tape. He saw

(51:25):
the exact same thing. What he felt though, was cold,
very cold air coming through where I felt a human presence.
I didn't feel cold. He felt I see cold air
coming through. So that seemed very synchronistic to me and
as a sign from the universe to keep working on
this project. So yeah, there have been synchronicities.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
And it's something that you see lend. Whether it's anything
to do with an early experience, all that's people's interest
and connection with these subjects prime you to be maybe
more connected with these things. I'm not sure, but there
definitely is something there now, whether we have some people

(52:08):
tend to pull back the curtain and pique more than others.
You do see that some people have no interest and
don't want to go near these subjects whatsoever. Other people
that they're curious they want to explore, and maybe that
opens up people. I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
I'm not sure either, but I know that it exists
because these were close friends of mine and some of
them did not see what we saw, what Doc and
I saw, and it's inexplicable to me, although I hear
that from other reports of experiencers of both Poltergeis and UFOs.
Someone will see something right in front of them and

(52:46):
someone else that they're with just does not see it,
doesn't experience it, and I don't know why, but it's
common in the literature.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
It is, and I've even had UFO reports where it's
been quite close and personal, where one person has seen
it and the person next to them, which in case
I'm referring to was a father, didn't see it, just
didn't see didn't see anything.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
It's that's That's why I'm content to live with the mystery.
I Am not not going to drive myself crazy. Look,
I want to emphasize I'm just a normal guy. You know.
I have a wife, two kids, mortgage, you know, I've
worked all my life toiled God. You know, I'm just

(53:30):
a normal I'm a Cleveland Browns fan. I have all
the abuse I can take from my football team, you know.
And there's nothing unique or extraordinary about me. I'm just
an ordinary guy. I don't know why this stuff happens,
and I'm happy just to let let the miracle be,
or the miracles or the mystery, let the mysteries be,

(53:53):
and not worry about finding out the answer. Because I
think Alexander Pope says we are in endless error, hurld.
I don't believe we will ever come up. Maybe after
this mortal coil we've slept. I just don't know.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Maybe, But like you said, you know, it's all part
I think it's all part of the human experience. Len Yes,
Whether or not we get all the answers, I don't know.
Maybe not in our lifetime, but maybe we will. But
if you look at the you know, I get a
lot of emails. Then a lot of people which come
on the show are just normal people. I've had all
walks of life, all backgrounds, all educational backgrounds of various

(54:32):
different levels, different jobs of people from NASA. Admittedly sometimes
they people won't mention their career if they're still working
for obvious reasons. Right, Such a diverse amount of people
on the show which are just normal people. When it
comes to the town drunk who's always in the conspiracy
theories and always saying he's been abducted by by aliens,
I mean that's just a thing for the movies, that

(54:54):
people have these experiences in all walks of life.

Speaker 6 (55:05):
Do you have an interest in the paranormal, then you'll
love the unexnetwork dot Com. The AX is your streaming
audio and video for everything supernatural, strange and mysterious like UFOs, Bigfoot,
Ghost and so much more. From host like Clyde Lewis,
Whitley Streeber, Mikah Hanks, and Christina Gomez. Visit the unexnetwork

(55:27):
dot com show page for a complete list of all
the paranormal programs you'll find on the AX. Be sure
to follow us on Twitter for updates at ku nx dB,
follow our Facebook group ONEX network, Fine the podcast on
her Spotify, iHeart Audible and Apple podcast, It's Time, It's ew,
It's the x x X.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
Now, then you say you're a normal person. But you know,
an interesting thing is that you did spend some time
on Capitol Hill.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Well, I have a degree in journalism, and journalism was journalism.
Jobs were tough to get in nineteen seventy five. Woodward
and Bernstein had basically toppled the Nixon regime, and there were,
you know, there were huge swelling ranks of want to
be journalists all over and the economy wasn't so great.

(56:24):
I had worked in a television news room as an
intern in Rochester, New York WROC, and I threw some acquaintances.
I found out that there's this office opening in Rochester,
the statewide campaign office for this peanut farmer from Georgia
who wanted to become president. So I went and talked

(56:47):
to those people, and I was hired as the press
secretary for New York State nineteen seventy six Jimmy Carter
presidential campaign, and Jimmy started winning, and he kept winning,
and go I would go from primary to primary. I
worked in New York, Connecticut, Oregon, New Jersey during the

(57:10):
primary season, and then after we won the nomination, I
was in Chicago for the general election and did press
operations for the state of Illinois. After we won the presidency,
I went to Washington and I worked in the Interior
Department for a while, and it has good work to do.

(57:30):
I was kind of bored with it and worked on
Capitol Hill for a congressman named Andrew McGuire, Democrat from
New Jersey, very active in health and anti cancer, all
kinds of issues, very active legislative office, and worked as

(57:50):
a press secretary for him for a few years. And
then then I left Washington to go work on a
rock and roll a horror movie called Fear No Evil
shot by directed by Frank Lolojia. And it's because I
wanted to write screenplays. So that's what ultimately brought me

(58:12):
out to California, where I've written a bunch of screenplays
and done a lot of done a lot of freelancing
and worked a lot of corporate jobs out here. I
worked at SRI International, which was interesting. Those of you
who know SRI International probably know about the remote viewing

(58:33):
program that put off in targ were running there. I
came in well after them, but I'll tell you, even
in the early nineties, long after they were gone, the
remote viewing program echoed throughout the halls of SRI. I
was able to talk to some of the old timers
who you know, had been part of that, and we

(58:54):
would I picked their brains a little bit on what
had happened and its legacy. And I can tell you
and I told this Sir Russell Target. I ran into
him at a conference once. He was going to give
us all a lesson in remote viewing, and I told
him that even in the late nineties, we had one

(59:16):
person on our I don't know eight member communications staff
for SRI. One person was full time job devoted to
answering worldwide questions about the remote viewing and all that
activity that had gone on. So the interest was remained
keen and long lasting. And that was an interesting time

(59:43):
for me. But worked for a number of corporate situations here.
Sun Microsystems Software publishing and then ran a PR advertising
agency in Silicon Valley, but finally was able to leave
the I take rat Race Silicon Valley rat Race and
devote myself to some writing. I wrote a I had

(01:00:07):
children later in my life, so I wrote a book
about later life fatherhood, which I discovered was a joy
rather than rather than a horrible job. I wrote about
it that I found out I was going to be
a first time father at the age of forty nine,
and I didn't know whether to celebrate with champagne or hemlock.

(01:00:31):
But what I found out was what I found out.
It was the best thing I ever did because as
a as an older guy, I was more mature, I
got my I already have my yahs out, I have
more money, I have more job security, I have more patience.
I'm closer to death, so I appreciate life more. It's

(01:00:53):
just it's just for me. It was the right time
to have children, and I could really devote myself to
fatherhood in a way that I never could have if
I was running around the country doing all the stuff
that I used to do for politics and business. So
did that, and I've written some screenplays, and you know,
I used to talk to my wife about this all

(01:01:13):
the time, you know, I talk with it. We'd go
for walks and I talk about, you know, my my
next idea for fiction, you know, for a script, and
you know, and I wrote some good scripts and then
it finally just kept going. You know, I would say, well,
what about my UFO, what about my Cundalini, what about

(01:01:34):
this poltergeist? What about this Archbishop Fulton Jay Sheen thing?
I mean, what and then this is and it's all nonfiction.
These are real experiences that happened to me. So then
once I start to get back into the UFO world
a little bit, I find out that this is sort
of a common theme in the in this community, that yes,

(01:01:58):
people can have multiple paranormal, if you will, super natural experiences.
And one more thing, I've got to tip my hat
to to Jeff Kreipel at Rice University because he is
a huge advocate of and it's something you said earlier,
which is such a great point, Nick, that we should

(01:02:21):
be these are human experiences, they have been recorded for centuries,
and we should just throw them aside because they don't
fit the channels of our particular scientific viewpoints. Now we
should take them off the dust bin, put them back

(01:02:43):
on the table, expand our viewpoint and take a look
and investigate them because they have been going on, they
have happened to me. And I hope that this I
hope that we can continue to investigate the serious nature
of the experiences because they're real, they're happening, they're human.

(01:03:05):
And I applaud Jeffrey Kripel for what he's doing to
to keep that roll in.

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. I mean,
how many times have you seen it over the over
the decades where where great inventors of him in their
earlier days were laughed at because of their beliefs and
you know what they were, the visionaries, you know they
were they were thinking and things they were coming up
with they were just laughed at, you know, ridiculed. And
it's the same, the same thing entirely. You know, people

(01:03:34):
are having these experiences. I'm a big advocate for people
to you know, come out and share it, you know
where possible. You know, certain situations is understandable, but in
an environment like this where people are faceless, it's just
their voice resonating across the air waves and coming into
people's living rooms, you know, to be shared. That's the way.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Well, it's fabulous. Radio is the theory of the mind.
It's just it's it's excellence.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
I mean podcasts now, I mean you can just reach
anywhere in the world, you know, I'm literally going into
people's headphones all over literally all over the world, even
maybe even off world.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
Who knows right exactly. And what I meant by radio
is that this is your guests of voices, you know, talking,
you know, without a bunch of visuals, without anything else.
And it's a similar effect of going right into the
theory of the mind with people, similar to what radio
used to do or still does, but it's more localized.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
Absolutely, I grew up radio.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
I still like listening to radio.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Now. You like that Art Bell, didn't you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
I loved Art Bell. In fact, Art Bell. I still
go to the Arqua a lot and still listen to
the old shows. I love Dart Bell. I loved hearing
when he would do his shows. I mean it'd cover
a lot of politics and things that are happening and news.
I love to hear all that kind of stuff. But yeah,
I still I still listen to the show.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Now. Oh he was the best, and I mean, and
the thing about Art was if you were a guest,
you know, the guests on his show he treated with
respect and he let them tell their story. He asked
questions that would be probing, but he wasn't trying to

(01:05:17):
do any gotcha stuff. He allowed the guests to tell
their story and let the listeners make up their own mind.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Exactly. Yeah, and pretty much this podcast was born along
the same lines. It's about treating people with respect. We
don't we certainly never get people on here to ridicule them.
I mean, I always did say, I mean sometimes the
stories and he'd have students out, you know, stone of
students that would bring up and just go on flight
to fantasy and just to wind him up. But he
would always say, you know, at the end of the day,

(01:05:45):
you know, it is.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Entertainment, right, I listen to our bell a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
Now, I'm not going to let you go before asking you. No,
you were on Capitol Hill and it was the Jimmy
Carter years.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
Of course, anyone that knows anything about UFOs would know
that Jimmy himself had a UFO site and he also
reported and he was kind of vocal about UFOs and
how when he did get into office he would do
his best to kind of open things up about it.
Did you ever have an idea or did you ever
get a chance to talk to Jimmy Carter about your

(01:06:20):
own experience?

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
No? I didn't. The short answer is no, I was
farther down on the food chain, Like I was a
campaign press secretary. I would go from state to state,
the candidate would fly in. His press secretary was Jody Powell,
and he'd fly with him, and he had his staff,
so I only had, you know, fragments of time, minutes

(01:06:43):
here and there with Jimmy, and we were never able
to talk about the UFO situation at all. But he
was an honest and open guy. And yes he did
when he was governor of Georgia. I believe he was
already governor or maybe campaigning, but anyway, he saw and
he reported it. Now there's all kinds of different stories

(01:07:04):
about whether he was denied access to the UFO files
or that he was told them. I think I'm trying
to think of who's the grant The Canadian podcaster Cameron,
Greg Cameron, I'm sorry the senior moment I forgot his
left I think he has a new book out about Jimmy.

(01:07:25):
If I'm not mistaken, I could be mistaken. But I
think there's a new book about Jimmy, and maybe he'll
deal with that. I think that he has some good
information about that. I don't, Unfortunately, people have asked me.
I just don't. I was too far down in the
food chamber and during those days. But I admire his
honesty and courage because you know what, that was really

(01:07:49):
a brave thing for a politician of that era to do,
to stand up and say yes, I saw one.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
It was very brave, very brave in the especially those years.
I mean, I'm I mean I was a toddler in
those you know, from seventy seven to eighty one. I
remember more of the Reagan years, but during those times,
I mean, yeah, it was very brave. I don't know
if brave or stupid. I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
Well, I think it was received fairly well. I think
maybe there were there were he had a number of
forces to battle with, you know, in Washington. But I
admire his courage for coming forward and just stating what
he saw.

Speaker 3 (01:08:35):
About I can agree more. I mean, I've been contacted
by other people which are in the political environment and
hasn't always turned out well for him, So it can
be a very hit and miss thing. But you know,
if you do come out with something like that, then yeah,
I've got to be brave quite quite the risk. Indeed,
especially in those turbulent years.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
Yeah, there was still a lot of stigma attached to it.
There was still a lot of you know, laughing behind
your back. It was just, you know, generally assumed that
you were nutty if you if you said anything like that.
And I just think Jimmy did. Jimmy didn't care what
they thought. He told the truth as he saw it.
He's inspirational in many ways. I'm optimistic about the whole

(01:09:16):
UFO thing too. I have worked with people before on
projects and have talked to people. I don't have any
abduction experience in my background, and I know that some
of these sightings and abductions they must be terribly scary.
I would not I would not want to be abducted.
They would scare the heck out of me. But I

(01:09:37):
also want to say that I was filled with optimism
and promise, and my UFO sighting was like an answer.
It was like a torch of illumination that was gliding
through the sky, beckoning me onward to better and finer things.
I think there's a very optimistic good side of all

(01:09:59):
this too. So despite you know, negative experiences that some
people have, I don't think it's all negative. So I
just wanted to say that too. Although I'm not trying
to deny their experiences or minimize them, because I would
not want to be in many of their shoes. I

(01:10:20):
found it very optimistic.

Speaker 3 (01:10:22):
No, you're absolutely right, and the listeners out there will
understand where you're coming from. The people which have these
abduction experiences can be on quite the spectrum, you know,
two different ends, and I think a lot of times
when people have the very traumatic side of these experiences,
a lot of it comes from just simply not understanding this.

(01:10:44):
There's so many factors. Basically, you're a very vulnerable point
and these things are happening to you and you don't
understand what's going on. And a lot of times when
people be in their own houses, that is their place,
you know, that is where the safety, where they're they're
cast or you know, and when people have been taken
from that, usually against their will, initially, it can be
very difficult to accept, and sometimes our minds would completely

(01:11:07):
close to these things as if they're not happening.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
Yeah, John mac in some of his work he said that,
you know that he did talk to some people who
were initially very frightened and terrified, but then sort of
in subsequent abduction situations sort of got to know the
beings and warmed up to them and were able to

(01:11:32):
make a more pleasant experience or more informational and learning
experience out of it, you know, having not experienced it.
I really don't know. I take people at their face
value when they talk about these things. I believe them,
but it's never happened to me. So I don't talk
about it, and I don't really speculate about it. I'm

(01:11:53):
just reporting what I've read from John Mack and other materials. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:58):
The best way to look it on it it's like
looking at that picture, you know, with the iceberg, which
you can just see the tip of the iceberg on
the top of the water, but then they show the
rest of the iceberg which is below the surface, And
it's a lot like that. The subject is very complex
when it comes to this. It's not as simple as
just someone being visited by aliens. It's a very complex

(01:12:20):
and also on top of that, people are very complex.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
Yeah, I'm getting I mean, if I were to speculate,
and I'm just speculating, I don't know, but speculating from
what I've learned in my experiences and the things that
have happened to me and the knowledge that I've gained,
if any is that I have a sense that we
are all connected. We're all connected somehow and on some

(01:12:49):
stratum of energy and life and creativity. And I would
think that that includes other beings. I think we are
connected with them. I'm connected with you, and you know,
it's all somehow connected, and I think that would include
any space brothers who would be visiting.

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
I always said that a bit like a hive mind,
you know, where we're all connected through the universe. We
put out ideas from the EPHA. Yeah, that is wonderful.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
Len, you did just great. I greatly appreciate your interest
in this. I loved being on the show and looking
forward to November ninth and see what the what the
end product is like. And I wish you continued success
because you're doing a good job and it's needed, and
I urge you to continue.

Speaker 3 (01:13:40):
That's very kind of you, Len, Len, I really appreciate
you coming on and sharing all that fascinating experiences with us.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
Well, thank you very much. I hope it. I really
hope it helps people. I said a little prayer before
I came on. Just let me try to, just let
me help one person who might hear of this stuff,
because you know, I think that's what it's about, and
it will.

Speaker 3 (01:14:05):
Do, Len, I guarantee it. Like I said before, every
time I have a guest on, i'd have about thirty
more people which get in contact every every time. Len,
wonderful to have you on. Enjoy the rest of your
day and we will talk.

Speaker 1 (01:14:19):
We will talk soon, sir, many fags, Sir, very good.
I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
Goodbye for now, okay, bye bye bye bye. Well that
is all for this episode. Keep updated and connected with
the show on x Facebook and Instagram, and if you
have an encounter that you'd like to share on the podcast,
you can email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com,
or you can reach out to me via the contact

(01:14:43):
page on my website UFO Chronicles podcast dot com. A
big thank you to Len for sharing tonight, and as always,
thank you all for listening. I will be back next week.
Till then, stay safe and keep watching the skies. Goodbye,

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Ruthie's Table 4

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep.359 The Brockport Encounter

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Ruthie's Table 4

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

Ep.359 The Brockport Encounter

Stuff You Should Know